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March 13, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 March 2021

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Happychappy

I would like to know how much more sensitive information that the Prime Minister might have let slip in her pillow talk with Fiancee Clark Gayford and if is willing to fall on her sword if he continues to let the New Zealanders know before the Prime Minister has announced it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwis-deserve-more-respect-government-under-fire-for-delay-in-alert-level-announcement/7W6LX764NKDCJNTAYZVUQFAUUE/
This is a absolute disgrace and someone needs to be held responsible as if it was someone’s business and a worker overheard a conversation that he told the Country about he or her would not have a job, but Prime Minister seems to think it’s trivial and ok for someone close to her to repeat what obviously was in confidence before she had released it to Aucklanders.
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March 13, 2021 8:00am
- Flossie
  
  The media also just gave it the “once over lightly” treatment. When are they going to take this lightweight prime minister to task? All hoping for a big toothy smile and maybe a hug are they?
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:42am
  - igm
    
    Yes, and they are greasing for more taxpayers’ money to keep them in a job, as the supporting advertisers have deserted these dens of communist propoganda in droves.
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  What sort of person interferes in the business of their partner?
  
  I doubt that Hubby’s clients would have been very impressed if I’d proffered my opinion on how to build their auditorium or quieten their machinery.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:51am
- Ruahine
  
  Perhaps a journalist could ask this man Clarke Gayford who I understand is the father of the unmarried Prime Minister’s child when the 8 million vaccine doses will arrive and when will ‘we’ be ‘allowed’ to travel to Australia. Nobody in the Gov’t seems to know or is it that ‘they’ do not want it to happen.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:51am
  - rouppe
    
    He’ll have been given a slapping for that tweet.
    
    He’ll still know, but will only tell his close friends verbally.
    
    To be honest I’m sure John Key’s wife knew a lot, as would Mary English, but they were smart enough to understand confidence
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:24am
- Rich Prick
  
  [Gayford] is the go-to guy if you need the low down on what the Government is up to. Funnily enough, he did a better job explaining the Government’s position than any minister, or Cindy for that matter.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:32am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Great leaders serve their people they dont rule their people. Not so Cindy. I watched her reluctantly granting her peasants a little freedom yesterday. She was condesending speaking down to the peasants.
  
  She is really is a nasty little piece of work.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:39am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    ” I watched her reluctantly granting her peasants a little freedom yesterday”
    
    Reluctantly?
    
    little freedom?
    
    Whilst you and others can continue to post your petty anti-Jacinda litanies here on KB and elsewhere
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:50am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      notice she gave the the one way travel to Australia a day or two before Auckland could start to move again.
      Directive for travel back to Australia was dated 11 March and up on the Australian health website, obviously travel to Australia is much more important that getting Auckland back on its feet.
      
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      March 13, 2021 12:00pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nasty piece of work LOL. My neighbour works for Air NZ in admin. Jaspinda is quite a handful for them, they sort of don’t like her behaviour
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:15am
    - RichardX
      
      You should hear the stories they tell about you
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Maybe not stories – could be the truth.
        DILLIGAF?
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:36pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  It’s actually more serious than this. At last year’s Labour Party conference, Gayford specifically referred to Ardern reading official documents in bed, comparing it to having toast crumbs in bed. No-one asked if he had a security clearance; and, if not, WTF she was doing reading official documents on a non-secure environment. The head of DPMC or one of our security agencies should have investigated.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:15am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    I imagine every Cabinet Minister has done that at some time or another. While all Cabinet papers are self evidently official papers, a lot of them have no specific security clearance. They just cover the usual run of government business. For instance papers on education, health, social policy, environment, etc. Not all decisions are major decisions.
    The normal practise is that Cabinet Papers are delivered by official courier (crown drivers) to your home on Friday for the Monday Cabinet meeting. The more sensitive papers will be in a separate envelope and are marked as such. However, the most secure papers would not be included. But they are relatively rare.
    I would imagine all covid papers would be included in the package that is delivered to the home.
    
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    March 13, 2021 1:50pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, a Ministerial Commercial-in-Confidence press release released unofficially by none other than the PM’s bed pall. I call treason on this. Will anything happen? Of course not, this is Aotearoa after all.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:21am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I read a piece about an unfortunate junior submariner in the US Navy.
    Was so excited (this teenager) to be on subs, he took a selfie on board his boat.
    He is now serving time for treason..that’s how seriously other countries take protecting their secrets.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:57am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes RW, that is a true story. However, a he/she Convertable called Chelsea Manning (of US Army fame) committed a much worse breach of security (downloading classified documents) and only served 7 years (house arrest I believe) before being released in 2017.
      
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      March 13, 2021 1:47pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I have a good mate in the UK who served on submarines in the RN more than 40 years ago. I’ve been very good friends with him and his wife since 1982 and to this day if I innocently ask e.g. did you ever get to Singapore during your service? He will flat out refuse to answer, politely stating that he’s unable to comment on operational matters.
      
      Takes his promises seriously, the sort of bloke you want next to you when the balloon goes up.
      
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      March 13, 2021 6:53pm
  - doublehappy
    
    Nickc2; it is still NZ as far as I’m concerned.
    
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    March 16, 2021 11:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The PM’s time is up. Even her mouth is not safely under control.
  They have proved they have no ability to govern–Winston’s selection is not proof.
  
  They do nothing but talk, the death of executive performance.
  Are to suffer more when the economic tsunami of global inflation arrives? They can’t tell GDP from Gold Digger’s Pleasure. How can they do anything more but borrow from our childrens’ futures?
  
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  March 13, 2021 11:21am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    New Zealand Prime Minister Admits Using “Sustained Propaganda”
    
    International fame again; see the PM on TV telling NZ of her wrong doing:
    https://www.infowars.com/posts/new-zealand-prime-minister-blames-citizens-ignoring-sustained-propaganda-for-covid-spike/
    
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    March 13, 2021 3:43pm
    - SB2
      
      Infowars? WOW!
      
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      March 13, 2021 4:30pm
Nukuleka

The current fetish for using Maori words when writing/ speaking English well may backfire on those who see this is a way of strengthening the use of the Maori language. English is a resilient and rich language that has routinely absorbed vocabulary from other cultures and it may well be that in fifty years NZers will be using a considerable number of Maori words in their everyday English, just as now folk might use whanau or mana. But this will have no impact whatsoever on Maori as a living language. It will simply enrich and strengthen New Zealand English. As a living language Maori is doomed.
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March 13, 2021 8:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’m fine with NZ English being enriched. I don’t think that has a negative effect on Maori though.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    His two points were not related in his comment.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:15am
    - Aliog
      
      Yes they were – clearly and inextricably.
      
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      March 13, 2021 10:55am
      - Tall Man
        
        “But this will have no impact whatsoever on Maori as a living language. It will simply enrich and strengthen New Zealand English. As a living language Maori is doomed.”
        
        I gather from your pseudonym that English is not your first language.
        
        Punctuation is the key to copmrehension here.
        
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        March 13, 2021 11:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Go and live in the Pacific elsewhere for 7 years and see how rich the indigenous language can be. Maori is stuck at 1835. It can deal with planting kumara but not shoes and coats. English is however the language of the 20th C.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:24am
    - oldfella
      
      Kev, I think it’s also the language for the 21st Century as well. 😉
      
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      March 13, 2021 1:55pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yep, I haven’t abandoned it.
        
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        March 13, 2021 3:28pm
- sooty
  
  Unless it is a requirement for life in the public service.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:28am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Anyone who didn’t have te reo (read white) got the bullet from Maori TV – a state paid-for outfit
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:18am
- kowtow
  
  Yes but the way it’s being forced on us , and the Herald are a good example has the danger of politicising what should be a social/cultural natural process.
  
  Plebs don’t like being patronised by the Patricians, unless of course it’s not accompanied by huge dollops of bread and circus . ( QE )
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:42am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who forces you to read the Herald?
    
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    March 13, 2021 8:57am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Or Stuff, Newshub, TVNZ, RNZ, Newstalk ZB, govt ministries, govt announcements…
      
      Mike gonna be Mike eh?
      
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      March 13, 2021 9:20am
      - SB2
        
        Nobody forces you to read and use those media but naturally use them when it suits. Consider Barry Soper ZB on his swipe at the PM on the other thread on this am.
        
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        March 13, 2021 10:55am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Z Energy, Mercury, Vodafone, Spark, 2 Degrees, Kiwibank, Auckland Council, VTNZ, F&B, DoC…
        
        Shall I keep going?
        
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        March 13, 2021 2:17pm
    - Simon
      
      Forced to pay for it
      
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      March 13, 2021 9:53am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Like lots of things you are ‘forced’ to pay for but never use?
        
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        March 13, 2021 10:33am
      - ISeeRed
        
        No, mikey. If you can’t see the problem with a government, any government, subsidising a supposedly independent media that is required to hold those in power to account, you probably work for the government. Words like “compromised”, “bought” and “corrupted” will come to the minds of others outside the public sector bubble i.e. the real world.
        
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        March 13, 2021 6:01pm
- SGA
  
  English is a resilient and rich language that has routinely absorbed vocabulary from other cultures
  
  Yep, in terms of vocabulary English is a culturally diverse language 🙂 (and these days, of course, other cultures absorb words from English).
  
  But this will have no impact whatsoever on Maori as a living language. It will simply enrich and strengthen New Zealand English.
  
  Who knows, it may or it may not. I’m not convinced that English speakers embracing more Maori vocabulary actually impedes Maori’s future as a living language (your “backfire” argument) though. I think you could as easily make a case for the opposite or even that it is neutral. I suspect that people’s opinion would rest more with their political persuasion than their grounding in linguistics?
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:43am
  - Steve Todd
    
    I suspect that people’s opinion would rest more with their political persuasion than their grounding in linguistics?
    
    And with their prejudices.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:25am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    Since Nukuleka writes that including Maori words in English “will have no impact whatsoever on Maori whatsoever as a living language”, he is in fact claiming neither positive nor negative effects, but neutrality.
    
    Maori language is probably doomed for different reasons – it is very small minority language competing with with a very large national and international language with all the disadvantages that brings. 25 years ago, teaching at a secondary school, I often heard my students (almost all of Pacific Island origin, plus a few Asians) say of their compulsory F3 Maori language course, “It’s not my language, I don’t need it, I’d rather learn something else.” The retention rate (excluding one class of immersion Maori students) in the optional F4 Maori language course was one per cent over the two years I checked. Even the few students who had defended compulsory Maori dropped it.
    
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    March 13, 2021 2:04pm
    - SGA
      
      “Backfire” implies more than neutrality, Dave – it usually refers to an opposite, undesirable effect.
      
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      March 13, 2021 2:59pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  As a living language Maori is doomed
  
  When I see and hear pupils from local Kura kaupapa and total immersion classes chatting amongst themselves in English, then I can’t see Te Reo becoming our lingua franca.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:58am
  - SGA
    
    To be fair, Maggy, Te Reo becoming our “lingua franca” is a high bar that, imho, only the most optimistic or fervent aspire to.
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:51am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Some folks will never have a great interest in becoming fluent in languages they are culturally connected to.
      
      The husband grew up in a household with fluent Russian, German and English speakers.. He has shown nil interest in extending his childhood knowledge of Russian or German… by contrast, his younger sister is a competent Russian speaker.
      
      The S-in-Law had to take Irish Gaelic throughout his schooling, but never has any use for it and not much interest in as far as I can judge.
      
      Scots Gaelic was well on the decline in the Western Isles at the start of the 20C. After a century of effort to revive the language, especially on the Islands that retained native speakers, it is not being spoken beyond the classroom.
      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/scottish-gaelic-at-point-of-collapse-major-study-finds-1.4296760
      
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      March 13, 2021 10:39am
      - SGA
        
        On the other hand, Welsh seems to be doing ok in Wales (at the moment, anyway, it seems to be tracking the hoped for numbers) even though virtually all speakers are bilingual with English.
        
        I imagine there are all sorts of diverse factors that determine the survival chances of a language.
        
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        March 13, 2021 10:54am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘The S-in-Law had to take Irish Gaelic throughout his schooling, but never has any use for it and not much interest in as far as I can judge.’
        
        The Irish gubmint made irish compulsory in schools . Not only that , if you failed the course in final exams you didn’t get your full certificate to show you was educated. That was how it was up the the ’70’s , don’t know now.
        
        The other thing the new Dominion did ,in the ’20’s was to designate the fringe western areas as ‘Irish speaking” , where many of the folk really did speak Irish on a day to day basis. They pumped huge amounts of money ( from a poor econmy) in trying to keep the language alive in those western fringes to no avail.
        In everyday life people speak English , on the quiet of course , or they’d lose their subsidies as the gubmint do inspections , but when there’s strangers about they slip back to Irish , just in case.
        
        100 years of emergency treatment hasn’t done it any good ,wasted millions that could have gone elsewhere and just turned it into a rort.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaeltacht
        
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        March 13, 2021 11:03am
      - Jack5
        
        Further to SGA’s 9. 51 post about Welsh language
        
        The rise in the proportion of people in Wales who can speak Welsh may have levelled off at under one-third of the population.
        
        From the 2020 census:
        
        For the year ending 30 June 2020, the Annual Population Survey reported that 28.5% of people aged three and over were able to speak Welsh. This figure equates to 861,700 people.
        
        This is 1.1 percentage point lower than the previous year (year ending 30 June 2019), equating to 29,400 fewer people.
        
        Welsh nationalism may have been channeled into language pride, while in Scotland it’s gone into political independence, and there has been relatively little interest in Gaelic.
        
        Many, probably most Scots, aloso speak what is either their own branch of the West Germanic language group or is a dialect of English. (Linguists differ on whether it is a separate language.)
        
        After a YouTube feature on “Scots English,” Dutch viewers, and even some Germans, commented that “Scots” is closer than English is to Dutch.
        
        Welsh data:
        
        https://gov.wales/welsh-language-data-annual-population-survey-july-2019-june-2020
        
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        March 13, 2021 5:13pm
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      Yes, it is a high bar, but it’s the bar that matters if Maori is to be more than a few place name meanings or formulaic phrases taught in a single semester and trotted out at ceremonies.
      
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      March 13, 2021 2:23pm
      - Overworked
        
        What I see and hear, especially from the likes of Red Radio, is a new ability for Maori to be condescended to in their own language, usually excreably pronounced.
        
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        March 13, 2021 6:35pm
  - AndyW
    
    The Kura Kaupapa and immersion schools are great for instilling a sense of being but once the kids hit mainstream (for that read ‘real life’) secondary school they’re screwed . Ignore the NCEA stats some schools roll out; the kids’ actual literacy/numeracy skills are non existent.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Te Reo is stuck at 1835 or thereabouts. Other Polynesian countries with a homogenous society have adapted to changes but English is still preferred in this tech world.
    
    The Samoa National Provident Fund for example in English is “The Fund in money for the future welfare of the people of Samoa”. It is was formerly for Western Samoa. In Samoan it is O le fa’aputuga tupe mo le luman’i manuia o tagata o Samoa i Sisifo. (Ole Nupifa.)
    
    Polynesian languages are adaptable but in NZ we don’t have a homogenous society and no blender can do that. Maori had to cede rights to gain the Treaty which provided the protection they needed. The deals in their time were fairly priced.
    No rule of law has operated to prevent them using and developing their own native language on their marae. But the tribes still remain as independent nations for all practical considerations–they each came from different islands or other places and retained their identities.
    They cannot expect us at this distance in time to remake or discard the Treaty.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:44am
  - lifesgood
    
    My grandchildren are being forced to learn maori at school. I would much rather they were being taught maths, reading, writing etc efficiently instead of wasting time on a language which will be of no use to them in their later years. Spanish or chinese would be of far more use. I sincerely hope they never become sniveling civil servants who need maori to get the job.
    
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    March 13, 2021 12:35pm
    - Jack5
      
      Just caught up with Jim Bolger talking to Jesse Mulligan on Red Radio last Wednesday. Here he is on Maori language:
      
      One of the first things I tried to do – tried is the only word for it – when I was Prime Minisger was to have Maori taught to all children in primary school. No big deal. But I was told it was impossible, too hard … quite frankly I had to rescue the economy. I let that [teaching Maori] slip.
      
      Bolger said he’d regretted that ever since.
      
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      March 13, 2021 7:48pm
- Yvette
  
  Nukuleka
  Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy responds to an anti-Semitic speech at an Auckland mosque.
  The Islamic Ahlulbyt Foundation Centre, which hosted the event at which the cleric, Hojatoleslam Shafie, New Zealand based Iranian diplomat Hormoz Ghahremani and others spoke, need to let the rest of us know whether they will continue to tolerate this kind of hateful korero at their events.
  – Susan Devoy, October 31, 2017
  
  The term “hateful korero” for “hate speech”, when Maori had nothing to do with the issue, is surely casual Maorification where people spurred by political correctness drop such words in conversation without regard to context – obviously, for what other acceptable explanation is there?
  
  Fortunately this fucking disaster of a phrase did not catch on, and we are still just awaiting the Andrew Little “hate speech laws” that are reputedly coming, not the “hateful korero” legislation.
  
  And in a similar way, Maori is trivialised and denigrated when a studio anchor says “Nga mihi” to a reporter and neither are obviously Maori at all – it registers as another token phrase. And in teaching anyone Maori – how often will you actually want to say “Welcome back to our sports coverage”?
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:24am
  - Clyde
    
    Exactly. I heard much use of East Polynesian language into the mosque issue with reference to the muslim community and their Farnow. I assume that the speaker was referring to the muslim families, but if the politicians and reporters really want to make a difference why didn’t they use an appropriate word that was part of the muslim life. The ramming down our throats of these East Polynesian words will backfire, as will the entire woke culture cancel movement, but its going to take some solid pushback – not an easy task when the media has been bought and hate speech will be determined by the woke crowd.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:06am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How did this term ‘East Polynesian’ come into vogue among some of the Kiwibloggers?
      
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      March 13, 2021 10:35am
      - ISeeRed
        
        It’s simple. If it’s acceptable to use an overly broad word like “European” or “white” to describe New Zealand’s lighter-skinned citizens, then we can use an equally overly broad term like “East Polynesian” for the darker-skinned and mixed-race “indigenous” inhabitants. I prefer “part-Polynesian” myself, but maybe you don’t believe in true equality?
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:51pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Just seems a bit dumb to me. AFAIK, there is no specific region called ‘East’ Polynesia. Probably a plo to avoid saying ‘Maori’, for some reason.
        
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        March 13, 2021 2:46pm
      - Clyde
        
        Mike, you need to read some history and look at a map sometime. East Polynesia is where the colonists of 1240 arrived from. And if its OK for me to be described as European on Government forms and stats, then as sure as hell its OK for these 13th century colonists to be described as East Polynesians. Because that is what they are.
        
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        March 13, 2021 3:56pm
      - Jack5
        
        The official NZ Encyclopedia says:
        
        “East Polynesia was settled from West Polynesia, and in turn New Zealand was settled by seafarers whose most likely origin was somewhere in East Polynesia. These people developed their own culture and came to be known as Maori. Today, Maori regard East Polynesia as their homeland, which they call Hawaiki.
        
        Maori brought the haka with them from East Polynesia, but left this culture behind:
        
        https://youtu.be/r4U7pPlXSww
        
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        March 13, 2021 5:30pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘Europe’ and ‘Polynesia’ are distinct geographical regions. ‘Eastern Polynesia’ is not. Is it really too difficult to call people’Maori’, especially when they are from the westernmost part of Polynesia?
        
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        March 13, 2021 5:39pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well, it is the common name being employed nowadays in many articles and Scientific papers :
        
        East Polynesia was settled from West Polynesia, and in turn New Zealand was settled by seafarers whose most likely origin was somewhere in East Polynesia. These people developed their own culture and came to be known as Māori. Today, Māori regard East Polynesia as their homeland, which they call Hawaiki.
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/pacific-migrations/page-4
        
        Investigating the origins of eastern Polynesians using genome-wide data from the Leeward Society Isles
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20026-8
        
        Human settlement of East Polynesia earlier, incremental, and coincident with prolonged South Pacific drought
        https://www.pnas.org/content/117/16/8813
        
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        March 13, 2021 6:38pm
    - oldfella
      
      Clyde, hate speech is simply speech someone else hates.
      And our current wokesters sure do hate a lot of speech.
      
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      March 13, 2021 2:01pm
  - JamesP
    
    But platitudes and generalities sound so much wiser when expressed in Te Reo. And people won’t challenge you for fear of being painted racist.
    
    Chloe Swarbrick recently wrote an article where it was clear she has realised this. She talks about “living sustainably” or “caring for the environment” and people are liable to roll their eyes. Say “restoring the wairua” and you’ll get sage head nodding.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chloe-swarbrick-what-pakeha-get-wrong-about-sustainability/
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:16am
    - Yvette
      
      The ‘Ko Tātou Tātou We Are One’ event at the Christchurch Arena is intended as a way for all New Zealanders to show solidarity with those affected.
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:25am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Ain’t that the truth, I mean, your korero is ka pai.
      
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      March 13, 2021 6:04pm
    - chukar
      
      Yes uptick,
      But it is about comprehension.
      Those addressing others probably want maximum understanding of their view, otherwise why bother?
      Te Reo can not supply this level of clarity for anyone. All adjectives and nouns are not covered in TR ,so expressing concepts effectively is almost impossible.
      
      So either improve Te Reo or just leave it to those interested!
      
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      March 13, 2021 6:29pm
  - EssenX
    
    I don’t have any issue using Maori with Maori. In the same way, I find it nice when people try to embrace my culture when dealing with me. But I find it ridiculous when a non-Maori person is greeting me (also non-Maori) in Maori.
    
    Something that I also find strange is that diversity is often paired with inclusion, but the increasing use of Maori in media is excluding most readers and viewers. Often I actually don’t understand! And I have good basic Maori (primary school mid 90s) and an overall high level of education that is probably better than most New Zealanders. So how does the average bloke feel? And are my parents, let alone grandparents, expected to suddenly learn a new language in order to consume news and participate in society? This is not inclusive.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:39am
    - Ehlana
      
      I heard an answer to that EssenX. What your parents, grandparents and all the other people who don’t understand a Maori phrase that pops up in the middle of an otherwise entirely English conversation should do is…
      1. Remember the phrase, without losing focus on the current conversation.
      2. Remember it until they get someplace they have access to the internet.
      3. Find an on-line translator that translates Maori.
      4. Enter the Maori phrase, spelled correctly of course.
      5. Read the translation and insert it back into the original conversation so they now know what they were being told.
      6. Learn the phrase for future use.
      Or
      1. Decide that anyone who really wants to communicate information to them will do it in a language they understand, or provide a translation.
      2. Stop paying attention when they stop understanding.
      
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      March 13, 2021 1:49pm
      - EssenX
        
        Fair points.
        
        I think this is happening a lot: “ 2. Stop paying attention when they stop understanding.” And then change the station / channel.
        
        I recently heard the phrase “Kaupapa Maori” and was able to remember and translate that for later. But some of the media outlets say so much and are probably mispronouncing anyway (that Press editor in an election debate was absolutely awful last year) so you can’t work it out. If I said a phrase in Japanese, Mandarin or Hindi I doubt anyone would remember it let alone spell it correctly to get a translation!
        
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        March 13, 2021 3:10pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      The worst excesses of it was on RNZ during the tsunami warnings, 5 minutes of warbling on in Maori before the rest of us could find out what was going on. And even then place names were substituted for locations most are none the wiser about. There are times when political correctness needs to be binned.
      
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      March 13, 2021 3:36pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    hateful korero
    Describes the haka, beautifully.
    
    17 4
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    March 13, 2021 11:48am
    - oldfella
      
      Kev, what’s ‘hateful’ in Te Reo?
      Let’s turn the whole phrase into Maori so when Angry Andy comes out with the new legislation, we can all use the Te Reo version.
      He won’t appreciate that.
      
      4 1
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      March 13, 2021 2:17pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Seems strange to muddle 2 languages when coining a phrase that already exists in one of the languages..
    It should either be:
    
    hate speech
    or korero whakarihariha
    
    Where the adjective is placed correctly in English and in Te Reo
    
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    March 13, 2021 3:03pm
- George
  
  New Zealand English as you call it, will most probably be unintelligible to anyone outside the country in the next fifty years.
  
  9 4
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  March 13, 2021 11:04am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    Although some local expressions already cause difficulties for overseas speakers of English, mutually unintelligible dialects take a lot more than two generations to develop, and rather more so, I predict, in today’s electronically connected world, with our entertainment media largely from overseas and continuing international travel, even at reduced rates.
    
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    March 13, 2021 2:53pm
  - Flossie
    
    Never mind 50 years. My NZ born daughter has been living overseas for the past 22 years and in recent call with her I asked if she knew what I was saying when I tried a few common enough Maori phrases with her. No idea…might as well have been speaking Klingon!
    I said her next visit to us will be definitely a foreign country rather than a coming home.
    
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    March 13, 2021 3:05pm
mjw

Free speech is not an employment right, any more than being drunk at work or having sex in the tearoom.

If you weaponise free speech to bully or oppress others, you have to expect pushback. In general, nobody is stopping your speech – but you just can’t expect to have access to any platform you like, or bring your organisation into disrepute without consequences, or force others to listen politely and respectfully.

One of the funniest phenomena of modern society is to see outraged people on nationwide TV complaining their free speech has been compromised! Heh heh heh,
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March 13, 2021 8:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  A good example would be the snowflakes who got pissed off and left Kiwiblog when DPF instituted moderation.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:24am
Luke Piewalker

Answered a Roy Morgan poll last night.
Got asked who I would choose in an election out of Labour Greens National.
No choice for Act even though they got the same amount of votes as the Greens last election.

Will be interesting if they come out and say ‘little support for Act’.
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March 13, 2021 8:16am
- kowtow
  
  Wow.
  
  Just goes to show how much manipulating goes on behind the scenes.
  
  As Mr Trump would say Fake News , and he was right.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:49am
  - SB2
    
    Trump on fake news was not right.
    
    He was the personification of fake news as ironic as it is.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:59am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Russia collusion…….FAKE
      Ukraine corruption…FAKE
      Both impeachments….no crimes……FAKE
      “They tapped my phones”…..he was right, just not in the current vernacular.
      Unemployment down
      economy up
      wages up
      etc etc etc
      summary
      Trump was right
      MSM wrong….ie fake
      
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      March 13, 2021 12:05pm
      - SB2
        
        RW Capitlist, Trump was the epitome of fake news with at least 2000 instances of it. From the birth certificate, his tax returns, the two Hunter Biden Ukraine conspiracies, Russian election ties , Covid 19 and so it goes on,
        
        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-fake-news-counter-history-b732873.html
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:28pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        You can add to that:
        
        Russian bounties on US Troops in Afghanistan – Fake (though possibly there were Chinese bounties, offered by the same people sending money to China Joe’s family)
        
        The Losers comment regarding US WW1 war dead – fake, and not just fake but knowingly fake by those who helped spread the lie.
        
        Although steadily losing influence, the MSM is still a very powerful propaganda organ when used systematically to spread falsehoods.
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:53pm
- Steve Todd
  
  No choice for ACT […].
  
  I find that hard to believe. See, for example, last month’s poll, here: http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8659-new-zealand-voting-intention-february-2021-202102250353.
  
  Why would they not include ACT NZ in their questioning this month, given that, this far out, it would seem to me that the only way National can be in government after the next election, is with ACT?
  
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  March 13, 2021 11:47am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I think the implication is clear
    “the only way National can be in government after the next election, is with ACT?”
    Remove ACT from the news and…..
    
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    March 13, 2021 12:08pm
    - SB2
      
      ACT remove themselves from the news with at least 8 MP’s members of the pro-gun lobby
      
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      March 13, 2021 1:30pm
Maggie's partner

My partner spotted that when denying she had spilled the beans to her boyfriend, the PM said “I haven’t seen him since…”
Not “I haven’t spoken to him”
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March 13, 2021 8:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  She’s either lying by omission (she did communicate with her partner)
  
  or
  She doesn’t check in with her partner each evening to see how his day’s been going.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:02am
  - I remember when
    
    Talks in her sleep.
    She’s a natural when it comes to talking.
    Do you really think that sleeping is a cure.
    
    21 3
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    March 13, 2021 9:22am
  - SB2
    
    MW, as though Joe and Jane Public actually care. The same enjoying America Cup fare and a night on the town in Lockdown one.
    
    It’s amusing how those like you and others get so easily triggered by the PM.
    
    2 26
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    March 13, 2021 11:01am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’m always happy to “call-out” the glaring holes in our PM’s obfuscations.
      
      19 3
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      March 13, 2021 1:44pm
  - Ehlana
    
    Seems odd if the parents of a young child don’t talk to one another at least daily, if only so the absent one can stay in touch with the little one.
    
    7 1
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    March 13, 2021 1:56pm
- Biscuit
  
  Indeed, Maggie’s partner.
  
  Any journalist worth the $110 million we have (involuntarily) flung his or her way would have said ”Whether or not you have seen him since…’ is irrelevant. Facebook, phone, email not mean anything to you?”
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:34am
  - Sofia
    
    Biscuit – Any journalist worth the $110 million we have (involuntarily) flung his or her way knows Maori coverage is a winner, but Government already spend $400 – 600 million on protecting and promoting Te Reo each year.
    That the current flag-ship use of the language is saying “Greetings” between a pakeha studio front person and a pakeha in-field reporter in London, is dismally pathetic and frankly not a good return on investment.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:22am
    - Biscuit
      
      Sadly, that’s true, Sofia.
      
      I can count to 10 in several languages – Mandarin, Japanese, Malay, Spanish, French, German, Maori and – heh – English.
      
      And I know a smattering of words or phrases in those languages – Amok, eg, is a brilliant Malay word – that I can use in everyday speech.
      
      English, as another poster has pointed out, blossoms because it steals (well, borrows) words and expressions from other languages …
      
      Maori, topically, has given me a few good words – whanau, koha, hangi etc – but I feel no great need for me to do much more … and hearing ‘flagship’ use of Maori expressions by folk like Simon, Savs and Tame Jack 24/7 achieves not one iota of comprehension by me.
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:21am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        English works because of a simpler more logical grammar structure.
        Even Polynesia is quietly changing their grammar to match English patterns. (It is not uncommon to hear Maori being spoken that way too, including on TV.)
        
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        March 13, 2021 11:57am
      - cmm
        
        KoB I doubt there are more than a small handful of people that actually use Maori on a day to day basis. And by that I don’t mean just driopping in the odd Maori phrase, but really using it.
        
        It is mot just Maori that’s going this way, but many other of the smaller languages too.
        
        I grew up in South Africa, fluent in English and Afrikaans and conversant in Zulu and Xhosa.
        
        Words do not make a language. Dropping in the odd Maori word into English is not speaking Maori – it is just speaking English with some localisation.
        
        Each language has its own structure and phrases and can convey meaning that other languages cannot. For example, my father and I would mix English, Afrikaans and Zulu when we spoke because each had phrases etc that could convey meaning that the other languages could not.
        
        That is why just learning to count to ten in 5 languages is unlepful. If you’re still “thinking English” then you’re really speaking English too.
        
        What I find interesting is occasionally listening to Zulu and Afrikaans on youtube. It is quite shocking how both languages have eroded in the last 25 years – they have both become a “pidgin” form and are losing their original grammar etc.
        
        Indeed, the Afrikaners even have a name for it – mengels (meng = mix and engels = english; mengeles means mixed-with-english).
        
        This will only increase as there is less and less utility in those languages.
        
        When you consider that Zulu has 12 million people that use it daily as a first language and is still falling apart, then what chance is there for Maori which is spoken, properly, by maybe 10,000 or so people.
        
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        March 13, 2021 8:18pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s an insult to Maori and an unsought appropriation of a minor meaningless cultural exchange.
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:54am
- DeepBlue
  
  [Deleted – there’s always someone who takes it too far. Mod.]
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:47am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Here’s my corrected attempt.
    
    Making a categorical denial at the press conference opens the PM up to further speculation. She should look at weaknesses in all forms of communication (other than seeing her partner) for potential breach of Cabinet information, as it does seem too close for comfort.
    
    The PM had the defence ready ‘that is what Minister Parker said’, so she was clearly concerned about the tweet before the press conference. The only problem is this deflection has failed as Mr Gayford made his tweet prior to Minister Parker speaking.
    
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    March 13, 2021 12:56pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Do you think other people missed that Maggie’s partner?
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:18am
  - plc
    
    [Deleted – trolling. Mod.]
    
    1 3
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    March 13, 2021 11:08am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      [No need, just move on. Mod.]
      
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      March 13, 2021 12:11pm
- Nookin
  
  Texted him is more likely
  
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  March 13, 2021 1:29pm
Swifty

How bloody rude. Just shows you how the country is going to the dogs!

Lifted from our street’s Facebook page:

“Strange post this, but feel i need to let the street know.

I just took Molly (our puppy) for a walk around the park. Down the lower section where the new path has joined in i noticed a man up in the grass clearing near the bush line standing there on his own. As i was walking it looked like he was holding a phone up to his face, and his other hand appeared to be inappropriately touching himself.

He did not stop as i walked past either. ”

Imagine that, not even pausing to wave to a neighbour!

Disgraceful.
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March 13, 2021 8:28am
mikenmildagain

Anti-vaxxers politely asked to be called ‘vaccine risk aware’. The internet has plenty of other names:
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/antivaxxers-are-asking-people-to-stop-calling-them-antivaxxers-because-its-highly-offensive/?fbclid=IwAR1lsmjlN6F_P49gLNViOkoKuvXa-4NgVZa3tLGh1xDmZ48yzqxLu9Ydl8M
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March 13, 2021 8:31am
- I remember when
  
  There seemed to be a growing level of discussion before the covid pandemic about the possibility of people being in danger losing natural levels of resistance to illnesses.
  But, of course, we should always accept every vaccine available without giving it any thought at all.
  Are these people – anti all vaccines or just not in favour of selected vaccines.
  Let’s throw them all into the same category so that we just dismiss them with the slur – antivaxxers.
  No further discussion is needed.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:20am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Some folks only see the World in binary terms…
    
    You are either with them or you’re agin them.
    No middle ground….
    No diversity of thought tolerated
    
    22 3
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    March 13, 2021 10:00am
    - SB2
      
      “No diversity of thought tolerated”
      
      KB as but one of the numerous examples demonstrates to the contrary I would have thought.
      
      1 25
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      March 13, 2021 11:05am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Most folks on this blog don’t abuse me.
        A few anonymous trolls have abused me for over 6 years.
        Why can’t you conduct yourself civilly when replying to my posts?
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:50pm
      - SB2
        
        MW, the reality is simply that you feel you’re immune from any critical comment that you unjustifiably term “personal abuse”
        
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        March 13, 2021 4:36pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        the reality is simply that you feel you’re immune from any critical comment
        
        Describing me as a POS – piece of shit – is abuse.
        It is not critical commentary.
        
        Describing me as an Alt-right trumpeter is defamatory abuse.
        I never made any comment on the Trump posts here
        so you can’t describe your abuse as critical commentary.
        
        I have accepted that I will continue to be the subject of personal abuse on this blog.
        
        It is interesting that it comes from a tiny fringe of anonymous males.
        
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        March 13, 2021 5:59pm
    - Apropos of the Wet Snow
      
      It’s very funny how it is only the “knuckle-dragging science-deniers” who want a rational debate and insist upon a consistent, replicable and sound body of supporting empirical evidence. If scepticism of this nature doesn’t exemplify the scientific method, then what does? Doesn’t the very fact that this is being rammed through unquestioned suggest that the covid-cultists actually have no rational case or sound empirical evidence for dosing everyone on the planet?
      
      12 4
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      March 13, 2021 11:19am
      - SB2
        
        “the covid-cultists ”
        
        ???
        
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        March 13, 2021 4:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Most of the anti-vaxxers are opposed to all vaccines, on various spurious grounds.
    
    9 13
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    March 13, 2021 10:30am
    - I remember when
      
      Missed that survey result.
      Interested in the figures please reference.
      
      8 1
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      March 13, 2021 11:01am
    - Ed Snack
      
      True enough, many anti-vaccination activists are opposed on semi-religious grounds.
      
      But with this Covid vaccination, it is worth being a little sceptical and wanting as much information as possible is rational. Most vaccines take years to develop – and importantly to test. It is indeed a remarkable thing that this set of vaccines was developed so quickly (and credit really has to be given to Trump for that) no longer term testing of possible side-effects has been done. All vaccines have some side effects, effects that can be serious and even fatal for some unfortunates; but normally the risk is lower than that posed by the disease it is being used to prevent. So for measles, there are deaths from the vaccine, but typically the serious (or fatal) side effects are at a rate around 1-2% of serious or fatal side effects from having the disease.
      
      But wanting to see as much information about possible drawbacks is reasonable, we don’t yet know for sure that the possible medium to long term impact of these vaccines will in fact be less serious than the disease itself for the majority of the population. For the at risk groups there would have to be a lot of really bad outcomes from vaccination for it to be worse, but for healthy people under, say 50, COVID is very rarely a serious disease and the risk/reward equation might be different.
      
      So openness and transparency would be welcomed, but such manifestations are so rare these days I doubt we will see any.
      
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      March 13, 2021 2:05pm
- Apropos of the Wet Snow
  
  I’m not anti-vax, I’m only anti-covid19 vax. Don’t conflate the two.
  
  As a sovereign individual, I am perfectly entitled to reasonable scepticism about a mass vaccination program being conducted on a hitherto unknown scale, that will likely be forced on us by proxy, if not by edict; a vaccine that has been fast-tracked and has not been through the usual regulatory processes; and a medical treatment that is unsupported by any long-term (or even short-term) empirical evidence as to either its general efficacy or its safety. All for a virus that – based on the official figures, including mortality rates and co-morbidity considerations (rather than gross numbers taken out of all context) – I have only a negligible chance of even being significantly affected by, let alone killing me.
  
  I am also free to hold this position under the Bill of Rights Act 1990 s 10 and s 11 (the right to not be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation, and the right to refuse to undergo medical treatment, respectively).
  
  On the other hand, if you are fully prepared to roll up your sleeve and have the state inject a substance with these properties into your blood-stream, then that is your right.
  
  You tell me what is the more rational position.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:58am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Possibly Pharmachick will offer some reassurance for you on the technical side. My limited understanding of that is that the vaccines have been sufficiently tested and are proving safe in practice.
    As for ‘have the state inject a substance’, I am yet to have an injection not supplied by the state.
    I will be getting the vaccine, sooner rather than later, and I am confident there will be a large take up, most people recognising that vaccines depend for their effectiveness on widespread coverage. You and other free riders will, of course, will benefit from this too, but without participating.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:29am
    - Apropos of the Wet Snow
      
      You left out the modifier “…with these properties,” which is the crucial part.
      
      Any vaccines I have ever been given have been through the non-expedited process. But this hasn’t. It’s only a little over a year since this “novel” virus even came to light, so necessarily the vaccine has only been in the pipeline for less time than this. I’m not sure about NZ, but in the US, there is no right to sue the producers. Doesn’t that ring alarm bells?
      
      “… most people recognising that vaccines depend for their effectiveness on widespread coverage. You and other free riders will, of course, will benefit from this too.” This is just supposition.
      
      Good for you mike, but I’ll wait and see how things unfold. This is the rational position. None of the propositions I have advanced above are false. I’m perfectly willing to take my chances without a vaccine. There is no evidence that I have a more than negligible chance of deleterious consequences from being infected.
      Everyone gets to be happy by making their own choice then, yes?
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:12am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Bravo. None of the vaccines have finished Stage 3 clinical trials so anyone wanting to receive one is participating the the worlds largest drug trial. That is their right, as it is mine to demand evidence (not media parroted assertions) that a vaccine is safe and effective.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:30am
  - SB2
    
    Apropos of the Wet Snow, who says you can’t?
    
    You don’t mind if admitted to hospital if they give you infusions of other kinds of substances to keep you alive?
    
    Is that a breach of the bill of rights?
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:08am
    - Apropos of the Wet Snow
      
      I’d have to consent, because without my informed consent, it would be forced treatment, and they would be breaching my rights. Nobody has a right to give someone a blood transfusion, no matter how necessary they may claim that such a procedure.
      
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      March 13, 2021 11:57am
      - SB2
        
        Obviously not in life-death situations after say a serious industrial or vehicle accident.
        
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        March 13, 2021 1:33pm
      - Apropos of the Wet Snow
        
        They’d have to get the consent of my next of kin, I’d imagine.
        
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        March 13, 2021 4:01pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Covid seems to have legitimised the anti-vax movement by giving it almost daily coverage in MSM. Previously, anti-vax were only reported as fringe ideas and pockets of resistance. Now with constant reporting, the 25% doubters find they have quite a strong tribe. Which has a dangerous potential impact on the current measles vaccination campaign.
  
  25% is something to take notice off and their concerns shouldn’t just be ignored.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:28am
  - Apropos of the Wet Snow
    
    The rhetorical tactic is to muddy the waters by conflating anyone expressing legitimate concerns about the mass doing of populations with insufficiently tested covid vaccines, with 5G opponents, flat earthers and the like. It’s not a good faith response and is a grubby tactic.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:26am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The water is very murky, indeed.
      
      Right now with 25% uncertain, children, unable to vaccinate, women of child bearing age, etc this puts a huge hole in any ability to reach herd immunity.
      
      At the moment it doesn’t look promising for the vaccine to be a quick exit route from border MIQ restrictions.
      
      7 2
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      March 13, 2021 12:00pm
      - Apropos of the Wet Snow
        
        They’ll tell us anything and state any lie for its efficacy, if doing so produces the desired response. This is why a short period of “flattening the curve” was the only sacrifice required. Until that changed to “elimination.” Similarly, initially, “masks don’t work,” until that changed again, once enough were secured for frontline medical personnel. In the US it was “shutting down the economy for five weeks” for similar (stated) reasons. One year later, and the US economy still hasn’t fully returned to normal. Of course, things will never return to pre-2020 life, because the goal is to irrevocably and radically transform both society and the economy.
        
        They are all either naive and incompetent, or willingly lying through their teeth, due to an unstated and coordinated agenda, an agenda that can only be discerned clearly if we read between the lines of what they are telling us. They cannot state this explicitly (save for on the WEF website), because the resultant behaviour would be undesirable from their perspective.
        
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        March 13, 2021 12:39pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is the Pfizer “vaccine” a vaccine?
  
  6 4
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  March 13, 2021 11:59am
  - SGA
    
    Is it a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease?
    
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    March 13, 2021 1:05pm
  - Apropos of the Wet Snow
    
    I understand that it does not contain the virus (or elements/ derivatives thereof) as other vaccines do, but contains untested RNA technology which acts on human genes.
    
    https://coronavirus.nautil.us/what-is-the-covid-vaccine-made-of/
    
    Regardless, my objections are based solely on the claimed necessity of a vaccine for a virus that all but a minority class of people will survive unaffected and often even largely unnoticed. It is out of all proportion to the threat.
    
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    March 13, 2021 1:17pm
Tomtoddy

There is a new policy in the police force to send offenders to ‘Te Pae Oranga’ for a community hui rather than charging the individual for their offence and holding them to account. Includes such serious crimes as:
– Assaulting Police Officers
– Supplying synthetic drugs
– Abducting a child out of New Zealand
– Assaulting a Taxi Driver
– Possessing child exploitation images

Further evidence that we are now a separatist country treating people differently on the basis of colour.

A frighteningly dangerous backdoor method to reduce Maori crime rate.
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March 13, 2021 8:35am
- [email protected]
  
  Not actually reducing the crime rate, just the reporting and handling of it.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:37am
  - kowtow
    
    If you don’t punish criminals the crime rate will explode , as it has done.
    
    I can’t imagine assault police being treated so leniently doing much for morale or the Top Plod’s looking after the H & S of his staff.
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:08am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Did you miss this one?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300249641/south-auckland-police-frustrated-at-new-requirement-to-get-approval-for-arrests
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Against the Treaty too. Maori cannot opt out of citizenship and the Police may have gone far too far.
  Why do they not enforce the law and now allow activists to illegally occupy other people’s property.
  Is it time to impeach the Police Chief?
  
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  March 13, 2021 12:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The rich get richer and the tax-payer gets fleeced.

Henry Cooke states the bleeding obvious of life under this “Be Kind” Government.

the burden on the government books is growing rapidly: spending on the accommodation supplement alone is $5.5 million a day.

That’s money that goes almost directly to landlords, who are also seeing record-high capital gains, which they can use as equity to borrow more low-interest money to buy more homes, outbidding renters in the process. A truly beautiful state of affairs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300251597/jacinda-ardern-needs-to-put-her-foot-back-on-the-gas-and-do-something-about-australia-and-housing
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March 13, 2021 8:38am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The accommodation supplement was introduced in the early 1990s, supposedly to provide fairer assistance to renters overall, rather than just subsidising state tenants. In reality, of course, it was a way to reduce spending on state tenancies while subsidising landlords.
  
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  March 13, 2021 8:52am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    As usual you can’t comment without putting your spin on it Mike
    
    It was never a “way to subsidise landlords” it was a way to make housing “difficult” tenants someone else’s problem
    
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    March 13, 2021 9:15am
    - Tall Man
      
      And avoid building more state houses.
      
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      March 13, 2021 10:13am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It was spun as sharing the government’s housing money more fairly, but effectively simply subsidised private sector landlords. The idea at the time was that sate housing would move to market rents with tenants subsidised through the accommodation supplement. the next phase, which didn’t come about, was to sell the state houses on the grounds that there would no longer be any difference better private-sector and public-sector housing.
      
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      March 13, 2021 10:39am
      - Tall Man
        
        Again you’re wrong mikey. You’re allowing your predjudice against landlords to show through.
        
        “Accommodation Supplement is a weekly payment which helps people with their rent, board or the cost of owning a home.”
        
        The last 7 words are the clue………
        
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        March 13, 2021 11:16am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Not what you said Mike…
        
        “…it was a way to… …subsidising landlords…”
        
        Your words.
        
        Now I’ve no argument that it did exactly that but you’re dissembling (just for a change) when you say that was the aim.
        
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        March 13, 2021 2:19pm
- Paulus
  
  It appears that many of the Motels in Tauranga are permanently full booked – wonder why ?
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The means tested accommodation supplement has been a blessing. It was introduced in a difficult time when interest rates were high, the return of which is awaited. It ironed out the inequities between those in social housing who were limited to paying only 1/6 of their benefit in rent and others on low incomes paying landlords or their mortgages. People on similar incomes were having substantially different accommodation costs. I don’t expect it to be changed. I must have had it for 25 years.
  
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  March 13, 2021 12:18pm
Hollyfield

There’s an article on Newshub about a “legal loophole” in the Holidays Act.

“One man who works Tuesday to Saturday in finance says he has missed around 10 holidays, since he started working at his company full time three years ago.

The 23-year-old, who asked to remain anonymous, said he didn’t even realise he was missing out until a colleague told him about it.

“I feel hard-done-by and a bit frustrated that my employer wasn’t more transparent or honest about my options because they know my hours and can see my days off fall on public holidays.” [end of pasted text]

So he blames his employer for knowing that his days off fell on public holidays, but he didn’t realise the same? Since he was the one not working, how is it he didn’t realise he was not working on the public holidays. I expect more intelligence from someone working in finance.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/03/legal-loophole-the-kiwis-who-could-be-missing-out-on-the-majority-of-public-holidays.html
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March 13, 2021 8:41am
- I remember when
  
  Interestingly, I saw a notice board outside a local Supermarket this week advertising vacancies including:
  ‘Produce Manager – Tuesday to Saturday.’
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:04am
- Ehlana
  
  “He’s upset that he’s missed time with his girlfriend, friends and family all because he works different days than other people.” He took a job that works Tuesday to Saturday and didn’t realise that would mean working different days than other people?
  And if he has Monday off each week, how does he miss out on spending time with other people when they have a holiday on Monday? Reminds me of the people a few years back who somehow couldn’t make it to ANZAC day remembrance services when these were held on Saturday or Sunday – because it wasn’t a paid day off for them.
  
  He’s working in Finance in New Zealand, where we are on the other side of the international date line from the world’s major finance hubs – like New York and London. I’d hazard a guess his unusual work week is intended to facilitate that time difference. Just hope he’s not working with my money…
  
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  March 14, 2021 9:51am
Happychappy

” Really Difficult ” : Frustration over Government lack off progress on promise to tackle Suicide rates, The Association of Salaried Medical Specialists (ASMS) raised concerns about frontline mental Health Workers overwhelmed by skyrocketing demand.
While most will make the excuse Covid – 19 has not helped the situation how can you excuse our Prime Minister for this problem and many other we face in todays world, like Kiwibuild and housing , justice , economics and free speech something our Prime Mister wouldtake away from us if she though it would help her stay in power.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/03/mental-health-frustration-over-over-govt-s-lack-of-progress-on-promise-to-tackle-nz-suicide-rates.html
This was one of Jacinda Ardern and Labours main promises to fix but like most things it can wait while our Prime Minister seeks Celebrity Status.
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March 13, 2021 8:42am
- Simon
  
  All these attacks on Cindy. Her job is to win elections. If being a celebrity light weight does the job thats fine and to be expected. Mental health issues? Lol – forget about it.
  
  Worried about mental health in NZ? The government / state has been garbage for a very long on many societal issues. Its only appropriate that some empty figure head celeb occupies the position of prime clown. She is perfect for the role.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:12am
  - SB2
    
    Simon, win elections?
    
    Like any other politician Left of Right!
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:26am
- SB2
  
  Suicide rates speak of a complex and difficult problem that has eluded successive governments.
  
  Free speech is not under attack during the current PM’s watch.
  
  I’m sure Judith will use her magic wand and make suicide and other mental health issues go away.
  
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  March 13, 2021 11:25am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    use her magic wand and make suicide and other mental health issues go away.
    Ardern already made that promise and FAILED.
    
    12 4
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    March 13, 2021 12:21pm
    - SB2
      
      The most recent Morgan opinion poll ( 25/02/21) suggests the voting public see it very differently,
      
      http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8659-new-zealand-voting-intention-february-2021-202102250353
      
      LOL
      
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      March 13, 2021 1:37pm
Inandout

Joe prints mega money and claims he is the true vaccine man, not that horrible man before him. Meantime the Floyd family get 27 million as a payout presumably to curtail further rioting. Good luck with that one.
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March 13, 2021 8:45am
I remember when

Without wanting to justify him in any way I am left wondering if Joseph Parker has been treated fairly by the Justice system.
A bit of, we will not charge him but we will half convict him.
Perhaps he should have sexually assaulted someone instead.
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March 13, 2021 8:58am
- igm
  
  He is obviously not a follower of Islam!
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I thought his lawyer made a good point when he said that the police obviously thought there was no evidence on which to bring charges. The police didn’t even execute their search warrant, so at some time must have realised that there was nothing to it, or that no evidence would be forthcoming.
  My conclusion would be that Parker simply knows these guys, who probably big-noted about their connection with him. He’s entitled to be considered innocent.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:25am
- MCos
  
  Joseph Parker’s problem now is that by not being charged he hasn’t had a chance to clear his name.
  As it is he’s been left hanging out to dry.
  
  It’s the same with Christian Porter in Australia who despite all his denials looks as guilty as sin to a sizable proportion of the population.
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:33am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Even before the Herald column on this today it was clear police didn’t know who sent some of the messages. The Herald also reports JP wasn’t in America at the time of the offer of doing a money exchange.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:23am
- kowtow
  
  It’s trial by media .
  
  Very dangerous.
  
  They should be ashamed of themselves , but now as ever, the key is clicks and advertising .
  
  Ethical , were they ever .
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:31am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No, there was a legitimate public interest, as the courts found, in open justice and also holding the police to account for the quality of their investigation.
    
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    March 13, 2021 10:41am
- JamesP
  
  It must be terribly inconvenient that his innocent and unfortunate choice of Wikr as a communication medium (favoured by drug dealers for its automatic destruction of messages) prevented Police from reading all the messages which would no doubt have fully explained the comedy of errors that caused him to unwittingly … [allegedly. Mod.]
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:35am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

How disturbing have things become in this country, when a Senior Reporter with the NZH, is made to take down one of his ‘Twitter’ posts….. because his bosses believed it might make the PM look silly.

https://twitter.com/IGottaNumBum/status/1370153458502754305
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March 13, 2021 9:25am
- Happychappy
  
  It just shows what everyone already knows, the media has been bought and paid for, their bosses have to do what our Prime Minister and corrupt Government asks for, no ifs or buts.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:13am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And as my partner said …..
    “First you disarm all the law abiding citizens”
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:42am
Jack5

The film industry is looking for more subsidies.

From Stuff: The “constrained” rebate doesn’t go far enough, as other countries like the United Kingdom and Canada offer higher amounts.

Film moguls have countries trying to out-subsidise each other to attract movie production. Good on them.

The Tolkien movies boosted our tourism market, but tourism isn’t the most stable industry itself, as the pandemic proved.

In Stuff, Screen Industry Guild president Brendon Durey talks of “New Zealand’s Screen Production Grant, where productions can access a cash rebate equivalent to 40 per cent of their spend.”

And: “… without the productions spending hundreds of millions of offshore funds in New Zealand in the first place, there would not be the tax take to fund the rebate.”

This sounds like China’s State subsidies of manufacturing industry, and of countries competing to subsidise Intel into set up chip plants. Sometimes, that helps, as in Israel, but Intel now looks itself to be in danger of a final voyage to the breakers’ yards.

Can a country subsidise itself to economic glory?
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March 13, 2021 9:34am
- marcw
  
  Can a country subsidise itself to economic glory?
  
  About as much chance as taxing it’s way to prosperity, or printing money to pay it’s bills to the outside world.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:13am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
    
    Winston Churchill
    
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    March 13, 2021 12:28pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s an argument to subsidise any economic activity that could potentially relocate to another country. Somehow, the film industry got itself into a position to demand huge tax breaks and changes to the labour laws.
  
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  March 13, 2021 10:43am
  - SB2
    
    Courtesy of a former National government who gave everything Sir Peter Jackson he wanted to get his lackluster Lord of the Rings off the ground.
    
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    March 13, 2021 11:19am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Labour had 9 years under Helen when they could have pulled the plug on the scheme… They didn’t.
      
      Ask Grant Robertson if he is willing to close down Wellywood
      
      While Seymour put a firm foot forward in opposing the decades-old scheme, Grant Robertson, the Minister of Finance but perhaps more saliently member for Wellington Central – the location for two-thirds of the country’s subsidised film production – was keen to stay light on his feet.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/inside-wellywood-how-nz-taxpayers-forked-out-575-million-for-hollywood-to-film-here/LSXAKSMX7IMNEP6IE3HHEY5XLU/
      
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      March 13, 2021 2:35pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        “Light on his feet”
        
        I wonder if our millennial reporter understand the subtext of that description
        
        Very popular in uk newspaper obituaries of homosexual men when it was still illegal
        
        See also: good with colour, a flair for interior design, close to his mother…
        
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=a%20little%20light%20on%20his%20feet
        
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        March 13, 2021 5:29pm
      - chukar
        
        Don’t forget Avatar— or the negative treasury cost benefit analysis that followed!
        
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        March 13, 2021 7:47pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/300244590/mystery-christchurch-artist-behind-march-15-tribute-painting-revealed
When I first saw this headline I thought “it must be Helen Clark”.
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March 13, 2021 9:58am
JibberJabber

Here’s a thought… no, no, hear me out…what if pedestrians used the crossings that are designed so pedestrians can safely cross the road?

Chlöe Swarbrick
@_chloeswarbrick
Now what if – and hear me out here – we designed cities so pedestrians really did have right of way
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March 13, 2021 10:11am
Maggie Pie

200 HOURS COMMUNITY SERVICE.

https://twitter.com/Bradjstone80/status/1370337169391243265
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March 13, 2021 10:20am
- greybeard
  
  Who on earth can downtick this article?
  Just plain disgusting.
  Jesus DPF, grow a pair and start naming the downtickers and uptickers.
  
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  March 13, 2021 5:05pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    And the real names 🙂
    
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    March 13, 2021 5:21pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Do look into the story more. It’s a horrific crime that actually happened, but already the two featured tweets contradict each other:
    
    1. The poor victim was raped at gun point until her abdomen ruptured
    2. She was raped *with* a gun *so* her abdomen ruptured
    
    Another version I found online was *after* she was gang-raped (again, utterly horrific), a gun was pressed into her abdomen with such force it ruptured.
    
    Then there’s this outrageously lenient sentence of 200 hours community service. That applied to *one* “participant” but what about the others?
    
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    March 13, 2021 6:22pm
    - cmm
      
      I’m fairly sure that “raped with a gun” means raped at gunpoint, not (necessarily) that a gun was inserted into her.
      
      It’s the same as you might say “robbed with a gun”. ie a weapon was brandished as part of the crime.
      
      Either way it’s quite a crime to cop only 200 hours.
      
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      March 13, 2021 7:55pm
Brian McDonald

The first cup race that was scratched because KK was in the race lane trying to hand out a publication on the Covid conspiracy looked very promising for TNZ to win that start. With winning the 2nd race that would have been 3;1 going into today’s round.
The way TNZ cut into the lead of the Italians on the last leg of race 2 on Wednesday was a loud message in what has so far been great racing.
Each of these races has the intensity of a WRC final where the ABs are playing.
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March 13, 2021 10:32am
I remember when

HB Today: 11 March:
Maori student teachers leave placement in Hawke’s Bay school amid ‘whaea’ and ‘matua’ row.
Torn us apart: Maori student teachers open up about ‘whaea’ and ‘matua’ row.
Hawke’s Bay student teachers Matua Mitchell and Whaea Hutana left a local school for not being able to use their te reo names.
Perhaps the principal of Clive School thought he was ‘the Principal’.
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March 13, 2021 10:33am
- Jack5
  
  Looks like Maori have increasingly embraced the concept and goal of separatism.
  
  The State media bloc (State TV, State radio, and the subsidised newspaper chains) are playing with fire by supporting and encouraging Maori in this.
  
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  March 13, 2021 12:59pm
I remember when

Express bus services or a rail system on the existing tracks are the main options for a rapid public transport service connecting Rolleston and Rangiora to Central Christchurch.
The work is part of an ongoing business case for mass rapid transport, which is the culmination of a Labour Party promise to bring light rail to Canterbury.
It is hoped the business case can be finalised by the end of this year.
Former Greater Christchurch Regeneration Minister Megan Woods said ahead of the 2020 elections she wanted shovels on the ground this term.
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March 13, 2021 10:50am
thetiedarch

I was looking at updates for the City Rail Link and I see the tunnelling machine has been given a Maori name. Had a bit of a realisation.

This trend of giving everything a Maori name is akin to a Father building a house and letting his toddler ‘hammer’ in a nail so the kid can say it helped.

Reality is that until the Maori elite who dictate the rights to ‘bless’ and name things, move away from doing so and the practice of ‘Koha’, and actually contribute meaningfully to the growth of NZ, Maoridom as a whole will never progress beyond being treated as a toddler.
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March 13, 2021 10:59am
jon

I read the Centennial Memorial atop of Wellingtons Mt Victoria that honours Edward Gibbon Wakefield and Arthur Wellesley the first Duke of Wellington may lose heritage protection by the Wellington City Council. According to the article these were the bad guys and Wakefield mistreated Maori. The local Black Lives group support this move. One wonders given appalling mistreatment by Te Rauparaha of defeated Maori tribes in the tribal wars whether the same Black Lives group will be calling for the removal of the statue to Te Rauparaha at Otaki and the renaming of the Te Rauparaha Centre at Porirua?? After all ALL BLACK LIVES matter dont they??
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March 13, 2021 11:09am
- Jack5
  
  The Cancel Culture mob overlook that their own monuments and relics are also vulnerable to being obliterated.
  
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  March 13, 2021 11:54am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

Pres Biden has just set the record for the longest time a sitting President has gone without giving a press conference
– (WaPo)
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March 13, 2021 11:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Please keep track of this Maggie. Do you think ol’ Joe will manage to beat Trump’s record of one (1) press conference in 2017?
  
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  March 13, 2021 12:26pm
  - Jack5
    
    Got the perfect ornament for Milky and all lovers and haters of Trump:
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/donald-trump-buddha-statues-are-being-sold-across-china/ar-BB1eundp
    
    8 1
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    March 13, 2021 1:03pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      See you, and raise you this:
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/26/trump-golden-statue-cpac-conference
      
      2 5
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      March 13, 2021 2:37pm
  - kevn
    
    @mm.. How many tweets did Trump do? How many thousands of his style mini press releases.
    
    5 2
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    March 13, 2021 1:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wow, here is some scatterbrained mumbo-jumbo to mess with your head.
https://rumble.com/vel5f3-aoc-reveals-socialist-easter-egg-hidden-in-recently-passed-1.9t-stimulus.html?
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March 13, 2021 11:56am
- SB2
  
  [Deleted -trolling. Mod]
  
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  March 13, 2021 1:40pm
- SB2
  
  [Deleted – trolling. Mod.]
  
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  March 13, 2021 1:46pm
doublehappy

A Biden approval of +15%? But on who’s poll? How can you believe any published figures in the USA?
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March 13, 2021 12:38pm
Jack5

As New Zealand prepares to accept the return of an ISIL female terrorist and her two children from captivity, spare a thought for the female and child victims of ISIL.

About 6000 Yazidi women and children were captured by ISIL and sold or given to ISIL members as sex slaves.

Children born to the slave women have been rejected by the Yazidi community, and the New York Times has just reported on the reuniting of 30 of these children with their mothers. They were taken out of a special orphanage in Syria.

It is hoped to resettle them overseas, but in the meantime, their location is being kept secret to protect them.

Bringing children of ISIL terrorists to the Iraqi province of Sinjar, where Yazidis live, “would destroy the Yazidi community,” Baba Sheikh Ali Elyas, the top Yazidi religious authority, said in an interview with the newspaper.

He added that 3000 Yazidis are still missing and more than 140,000 are languishing in displacement camps.

“Yazidis are all orphans. No one is taking care of us.”

Under the law of Iraq, the child of a Muslim man is Muslim, and the Yazidi faith doesn’t admit converts.

The Yazidi homeland is riddled with unexcavated mass graves and damaged and destroyed homes.

ISIL , the terrorist movement, is also known as ISIS, or the Islamic State, but most Western organisations use the acronym ISIL. It stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
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March 13, 2021 12:51pm
- Nickc2
  
  So what’s the problem here? Surely, if a bunch of sheilas wants to go and breed with another bunch of mentally deranged bastards, that’s their problem. What’s it got to do with us?
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:40pm
  - Ehlana
    
    The Yazidi women did not want “to go and breed”. They were taken by force, enslaved and raped.
    
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    March 14, 2021 12:45pm
Rusty

Biden’s not going last the 4 year term as president. Either ill health or some other circumstance will pave the way for Kamala Harris to take over which is a scary thought.
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March 13, 2021 1:14pm
waripori

Yesterday’s tweet from Gayford is by no means the first time he has injected himself into the political process. The moderators on this blog have had a policy of rejecting comments which might show family members of politicians in a bad light which is fair enough. The coverage of Max Key in various places was gratuitous and unfair.

I feel Gayford is now an active participant rather than an innocent bystander and his activities and relationship with the Prime Minister should be a valid topic for comment.

[In case you hadn’t noticed, because he himself has entered the public space, we have allowed comment on this topic. I fail to see your point here. Mod.]
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March 13, 2021 1:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Obvious Jaspinda and Grunt are following the American Democrats.
https://bongino.com/dan-crenshaw-attacks-democrats-on-1-9-trillion-relief-bill-bribing-people-with-their-own-money/?
10 3
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March 13, 2021 2:06pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone see the ungrateful Muslin cow on Newshub Nation this morning demanding money and hate speech laws NOW?
9 11
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March 13, 2021 2:52pm
- Swifty
  
  Your use of the word cow is beneath you Chuck.
  
  9 4
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  March 13, 2021 3:56pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I should called her a sow.
    
    7 9
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    March 13, 2021 4:00pm
    - Swifty
      
      What would that have achieved Chuck?
      
      7 5
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      March 13, 2021 4:51pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        There’s not too much that’s too vile for Chuck.
        
        6 7
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        March 13, 2021 5:44pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Did you see her on Newshub Nation? If you look at their Facebook there are a number who thinks she should piss off.
        
        7 6
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        March 13, 2021 7:23pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  I for one welcome our new plain-woven overlords
  
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  March 13, 2021 7:47pm
oldfella

Warning: Your Sex Toys Might Be Watching You.
Today, researchers have exposed common weaknesses lurking in the latest smart sex toys that can be exploited by attackers.
As more as more adult toy brands enter the market, given that the COVID-19 situation has led to a rapid increase in sex toy sales, researchers believe a discussion around the security of these devices is vital.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/smart-sex-toys-come-with-bluetooth-and-remote-hijacking-weaknesses/
6 1
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March 13, 2021 3:06pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  In Putin’s Russia, porn watches you!
  
  3 4
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  March 13, 2021 5:45pm
Maggie Pie

I can’t think of the number of times guys have asked…. “Does the carpet match the drapes?”

So what about….. “Do the legs match the faces?”

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1370406133261688839
5 3
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March 13, 2021 3:33pm
Maggie Pie

My partner just txts from out in the Gulf……

* – –
– – –
– – *
* * *
* * * – –

huh??
3 3
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March 13, 2021 5:01pm
- Master Mariner
  
  wogs3
  
  Easy peasy
  
  7 3
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  March 13, 2021 5:22pm
Master Mariner

Find this interesting and raises for questions

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/03/device-of-genius-computer-built-in-ancient-greece-leaves-scientists-baffled.html

On another note, I wonder what information was ever held in the great Library of Alexandria before its destruction.
6 0
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March 13, 2021 5:11pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Saw that earlier today. Starts me really wondering what was lost through the Dark Ages – I’m a bit SciFi but also PreHistFic -interesting.
  Think Tony S had a thought on that a couple of weeks ago.
  
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  March 13, 2021 7:31pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Absolutely,
    
    Of interest to me is the Pires Ries map ? Of Antarctica with no Ice.
    
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    March 14, 2021 1:47pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There’s a few good videos on the Antikythera
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVA6TeUKYU
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSQNEPbQOiI
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtIyGJ63YtA
  
  etc…
  
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  March 13, 2021 9:22pm
greybeard

I want Emirates Team NZ to win.
I know Luna Rossa has a formidable team.
I have to admit that Spittle & Co. are making Burling & Tuke look like a couple of amateurs so far.
3 4
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March 13, 2021 5:15pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  TNZ loss average time in seconds – win average time in seconds – I’m very much starting to wonder who might be the amateurs that are just getting played here.
  
  2 0
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  March 13, 2021 7:35pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Look at R5 vs R6 race stats. Same conditions but such dramatic distance traveled differential. Angle of choice in my view.
    
    2 1
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    March 13, 2021 7:44pm
70andstilllearning

Means get tea ready – but will be late cause there’s 3k other silly buggers in boats out here 🙂 🙂
3 2
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March 13, 2021 6:36pm
Master Mariner

Interesting read.

“The report clearly shows the need to scale up mining production and the sourcing of raw materials within the EU,” Roberto García Martínez, Eurobattery Minerals CEO, said in a media statement. “We need to act quickly to enable the electric car revolution and ultimately reach the Agenda 2030 targets outlined by the UN. From the report, it is clear that Europe needs to move faster to meet the demand for these materials. A sustainable car industry cannot continue to rely on unsustainable mining.”

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Europe-Cant-Keep-Up-With-Demand-For-Battery-Metals.html
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March 13, 2021 7:38pm
Master Mariner

A good article.

https://www.shippingandfreightresource.com/difference-maritime-shipping-freight-logistics-supply-chain/
And
https://gcaptain.com/global-cargo-traffic-jam-could-last-to-2022/

https://gcaptain.com/has-the-time-come-to-rethink-shipping-and-ship-design/
4 0
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March 13, 2021 8:23pm
TheNecroposter

What was Kea’s position on the holocaust ? There seem to be some sort of misunderstanding with it.

Some commentators said Kea denied the Holocaust, but I don’t seem to read that in his/her posts. The impression I get is that Kea thought the Holocaust was not the most hideous of mass killings in WwII, not that it did not happen. If so, I have little to disagree with that statement . Not that we should deny it or it’s evils (any killing is horrible, six million is just hideous) but I do believe we tend to ignore the Nazi’s uncle Commie big mess for something a bit smaller but no less morally repugnant.

If that is not Kea’s position can someone point to where Kea denies the Holocaust? Maybe I have misread the issue at hand ?
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March 14, 2021 4:13pm

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