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August 24, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 August 2021

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General Debate

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Tony Stuart

Kudos to Craig McCullough from RNZ for cutting through the PM’s spin on our lamentably slow vaccination rollout:

Analysis: Sluggish vaccine rollout deserves an explanation

Analysis – Monday’s media conference contained a self-evident yet sobering admission: many of those caught in the Delta outbreak were not vaccinated as they were not yet eligible.

The Ministry of Health later confirmed just three of the 107 people who had so far tested positive for Covid-19 were double jabbed; 14 had received one dose.

The revelation is unsurprising given prior to the outbreak most people under the age of 50 were blocked from booking an appointment.

Since last week’s Delta incursion, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has been unapologetic and dismissive of any criticism of the government’s vaccination campaign.

Ardern has batted away questions by claiming a higher immunisation rate would not have saved New Zealand from lockdown. That may well be the case, but it will come as cold comfort to those individuals cooped up in Jet Park with Covid-19.

As the prime minister herself acknowledged, a “large number” of them were ineligible to be vaccinated, denied the defence which could have protected them from the virus or at least its worst effects.

New Zealand’s vaccination programme has been staggeringly slow by international standards, among the last in the developed world. Only recently has it begun to ramp up.

The sluggish pace is in part due to deliberate decisions by the government.

Given the country’s then-Covid-free status, ministers chose not to follow other countries in rushing the vaccine approval processes, instead allowing regulator Medsafe to carry out a months-long rigorous assessment.

By the time Pfizer was given the green light in early February and the first batch had arrived in the country, more than 15 million doses had been doled out in the United Kingdom. In the United States, the number was nearly 53 million.

Most countries are using a wide portfolio of vaccines but in March New Zealand decided to go all in on Pfizer, choosing to inoculate everybody with the same vaccine based on its strong performance and fewer side-effects.

As a result, the government declined deliveries from other suppliers earlier this year. That too has meant a slower rollout.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle to ramping up has been Pfizer’s supply schedule which put off the largest deliveries until mid-July.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/449840/analysis-sluggish-vaccine-rollout-deserves-an-explanation

There’s quite a bit more, but I won’t test the patience of the moderators. I will however repeat McCullough’s closing sentence:

Delta is here, and there are at least 107 New Zealanders who deserve more than a glib brush-off.

The PM gets awfully defensive when anyone dares to question the vaccine rollout, but it is clear from this story than many of those who have tested positive in the current outbreak did not have the opportunity to be vaccinated.

Far from being at the “head of the queue” as Chris Hipkins promised we would be towards the end of last year we found out in 2021 that New Zealand wasn’t even in the queue, let alone at the head of it. We still have the second-lowest per capita vaccination rate in the OECD. Combine that with the second fewest ICU beds per capita in the OECD, and New Zealand is a prime candidate for a Delta disaster. That it hasn’t happened yet owes far more to good luck than good management.
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December 24, 2012 11:53am
- Okahu
  
  Quite right Tony. I too wish we could have an explanation. Not a declaration that all is well and we are on track vs a vis vaccinations. An explanation as to why our endeavours appear at best sluggardly and at worst, risible.
  
  There may be an explanation we can live with. Something about being a small player with little clout in purchasing. Something about not being on the first in line list owing to our relative success as a country in avoiding the virus. Something to do with legal/commercial/diplomatic sensitivities. But who knows?
  
  An explanation would be nice wouldn’t it? I mean if we a free to assume the worst, (incompetence and dangerous indifference) what harm the truth?. Of course we might be pleasantly surprised, or at least relieved of our dark thoughts. This might be as good as it gets! But then, until we get that explanation, who knows? This shouldn’t be a matter of idle speculation.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:49pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Absolutely Okahu, I’ve recently heard both Ayesha Verrall and Chris Hipkins be quizzed by Mike Hosking about the incompetent vaccine rollout, how the border got breached and whether the Govt’s thinking about acquiring vaccine boosters for 6 – 8 months time and both of them have sounded utterly dumbstruck and unprepared for such simple questions. So yeah, I guess an explanation of some sort would be nice…
    
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    August 24, 2021 4:23pm
    - Okahu
      
      Can’t quite agree with you Ms W. It’s because we don’t have an explanation that we don’t know that the rollout was our best effort or incompetent. It may be either or a mix.
      
      People here have largely decided the worst but truth is we just don’t know. And making your mind up when you just don’t know is the basis of prejudice and ignorance.
      
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      August 24, 2021 4:52pm
    - fernglas
      
      Congratulations NZ. You have been given the chance to show the world just how dangerous Delta can be in an unvaccinated population which is likely to be highly susceptible to the virus, through the AoG church cluster. I see there were over 500 at the event, and they tell us that “over 500 attendees and close contacts have been tested”, which suggests that a large number of attendees have yet to come forward to be tested, and yet there are still 58 who have tested positive. I hope the Samoan people will remember how kind the PM was in failing to supply vaccines promptly, and in not doing anything to bring ICU, contact tracing and testing up to scratch. You had better all hope that the fear that has been generated about Delta proves to be largely false, but in the meantime, don’t forget to be grateful to your government for giving some of you the chance to be global guinea pigs.
      
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      August 24, 2021 5:23pm
- rouppe
  
  Mod:
  
  Let’s see if putting an end tag on italics fixes this up…
  
  Failing that can you edit Tony’s post and fix it up please?
  
  [Appears Fixed – Mod.]
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:10pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Oops; sorry about that folks!
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:20pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Wow a journalist doing their job. Quite a novelty nowadays
  
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  August 25, 2021 7:07am
Peter Lane

This is an editorial in the UK Telegraph. Paywalled so I’ve copied it

Pandemic paranoia
Australia and New Zealand have often been described as two of the great success stories of the pandemic. Both have pursued a strategy of elimination, closing their borders and cracking down on cases through a ruthless policy of lockdowns. Both have kept their Covid death figures low by international comparison.

But as much of the rest of the developed world has used vaccination to find a new equilibrium with the virus as a manageable illness, Australia and New Zealand have remained stuck in a damaging cycle of lockdowns as they have sought to crush outbreaks of any size. Scott Morrison, the Australian Prime Minister, at least seems to have realised how unsustainable this is. Australia can’t “stay in the cave forever”, he has said, as he has tried to persuade states to reopen once enough people have been vaccinated. But Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s leader, shows little sign of adapting her strategy. She appears resolute in her conviction that Covid can be extinguished by government fiat.

It is a policy that is increasingly detached from all facts and reason. Ms Ardern’s country has been slow to vaccinate its population, perhaps partly out of a false sense of security that Covid could be kept at bay through restrictions. But even if it were to attain 100 per cent vaccination rates, the virus would still be able to spread because the jabs do not entirely stop transmission.

So-called Zero Covid has been exposed as dangerous hubris, with the virus likely to circulate globally for the indefinite future. Which begs the question: how does Ms Ardern propose that her country escape from its lockdown trap? Or does she expect New Zealand to live in its present state of paranoia forever, never able to return to normal?”

[Please don’t post paywalled articles in their entirety. An extract is ok though. Mod]
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December 24, 2019 4:32pm
- Okahu
  
  Paywalled, but copied and republished! Is that legit if we say we really really want to spread the news?
  
  Perhaps DPF and/or the mods can advise on such ?
  
  [Extracts are but a full copy and paste is not as has been noted on Peters post. Mod]
  
  But might I say what a weak as piss article. It makes the obvious error of suggesting the PM is dismissing the virus by fiat. Like you could find the spell in a dusty Hogwarts spell book and command it with a full furrowed frown and a prolonged head tilt.
  
  No, she and her cabinet, invoking well understood public health measures, are directing the play using the entirety of the states resources, including the vast majority of a compliant populace to tackle the virus. Did Churchill leave it at a speech or did his rousing words galvanise the Kingdom and the Empire?
  
  The author then attributes reasons for our slow vaccination rate. Perhaps a false sense of security (hubris?)…
  
  Thing is we don’t know and nor does the author. This is just a right wing hack piece sans evidence. Should do well.
  
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  August 24, 2021 5:15pm
Happychappy

Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet seek Senior Analyst to help curb spread of Covid – 19 ‘disinformation’.
How far will this despicable woman go to cover up her lies and incompetence to keep power in New Zealand.
It’s always others fault never our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and she will stop at nothing to save face and pass the blame on to others.
I am not saying there is not people out their twisting the facts but there is also some high up Health officials out there doing the same, take for instance our Health Director Ashley Bloomfield has been caught out lying to Parliament or a Parliamentary committee three times and having to apologize each time for what have been blatant lies.
Jacinda Ardern and Ashley Bloomfield should clean their own mess up first and apologize to the Country for the blatant lies they present as facts before using taxpayers money to employ another Spin Doctorto attempt to dupe the New Zealand Public.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-s-office-seeks-senior-analyst-to-help-curb-spread-of-covid-19-disinformation.html
Our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has no shame and maybe should take some lessons on the meaning of lies and truth.
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August 24, 2021 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  The Orwellianism is total. Much of what they and their establishment mates (big tech, media etc) are suppressing is actually inconvenient truth. They conflate truth and whistleblowing with Alex Jones “planned genocide of humanity” conspiracy theories and far too few people have the intuitions to check things out for themselves and make the distinctions. For example, everything on NZ Drs SOS website, or VFF website, is honest and well supported argument, not conspiracy theory.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:09am
  - hullkiwi
    
    This matter is very Orwrllian and is sinister (but is not the only example I know of).
    
    For me, this is a case a matter of the political crossing the boundary into the domain of the public service and expecting the taxpayer to pay for it.
    
    In a society that values free speech, is this not going further down the road of what is “correct” information for the people. As if the ads in the media are not bad enough.
    
    And finally, even the left know this appointment crosses the line, over at The Standard, Prestige has forbidden any discussion of this matter.
    
    NZ is heading to a dark place when people’s speech is being scrutinised by the state.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:04am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Prestige, I don’t think so. Try Prentice.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:35am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      NZ has employed “spies” on their fellow citizens for donkey’s years.
      
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/intelligence-services/page-1
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:40am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Maggy you want propaganda, try Google NZ! Talk about “right think”.
        
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        August 24, 2021 10:32am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The government routinely spread misinformation or false information. Take their continued pushing of masks. Pure theatre.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:48am
    - Ed Snack
      
      True enough, in yet another confirmation, a CDC study has just been released in the US (after being suppressed for a bit for having the wrong conclusions) that concluded that essentially none of the measures taken to “protect” students in schools made any difference. These included “social distancing”, physical dividers, masks, and improved ventilation.
      
      The other related idiocy is the “advice” to wear a mask while exercising outside. For a start viral transmission outside is almost unknown, and masks don’t make a difference, so why do they lie so deliberately ? Why are they so strikingly dishonest and blind to the evidence ?
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:26am
    - Jack5
      
      Better wear a mask in Christchurch!
      
      In the city one non-masker at a supermarket suffers a broken leg in a confrontation with police.
      
      Another’s confrontation with police leads to him being wrestled to the ground, arrested and charged with disorderly behaviour, resisting police and wilful trespass.
      
      How will the Woke police chief’s team go if the gangs show up, mask-less? Will the truce be off?
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:38am
      - igm
        
        Woke Coster will reprimand them in te reo and call wardens . . . back to the marae and no more said.
        .
        
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        August 24, 2021 12:40pm
  - Raphael
    
    The scary thing is, while I think Alex Jones is somewhat of a crackpot, the Wokeists seem to be doing their darndest to prove him to be absolutely correct.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:24am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      Jones’ delivery comes across as “crackpot”-ish (your term, not mine), but the substance of much of what he talks about is revealed as true by the day. You could do worse than watch some Banned.video.
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:19pm
- Andrei
  
  The sad thing is the legacy of Jacinda Ardern’s premiership is now inextricably entwined in the elimination of Covid from New Zealand.
  
  Those of us who are not stupid know that this is practical impossibility in the medium to long term but she and her bureaucrats have their blinkers on and so it is full steam ahead into the iceberg
  
  And the thing about massive political failures it is never the architect of the misguided policies to blame. it is the peasants who didn’t follow Government guidelines who the finger will be pointed at
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:12am
  - PhilBest
    
    What is actually the worst of this, is that protection of the vulnerable has to involve the air quality in their indoor environments. The WHO was badgered endlessly for a whole year by experts until they finally admitted this.
    
    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2021/06/18/canadas-culture-of-silence-on-airborne-virus-transmission-leaves-many-confused-on-how-to-best-avoid-infection.html
    
    We have lost more than a year during which attention could have been paid to HVAC standards, and people and institutions could know to protect themselves with open windows, fan forcing, etc.
    
    The risk now is that if Delta finally does get into NZ’s Rest Homes, it will kill people; and we could have saved them by sufficient air exchange in those environments. Plus getting them outdoors as much as possible on fine days, getting creative with patio heaters, etc. The vaccines have NEVER been tested under the specific challenge of infections picked up in high-aerosol-risk environments, the vaccine trials were like trialling bullet proof vests on the entire US military personnel EXCEPT those on front lines where fighting was happening. Of course “breakthrough infections” were going to happen.
    
    In the rest of the world where Covid has already been through the rest homes, this is less serious. NZ is a test case for official reliance on vaccines and total and utter failure to address indoors environmental risk. One NZ doctor who has been awake to this all along, has been hounding Bloomfield et al all along, and corresponds with me, just emailed:
    
    “…Bloomfield, our MOH and Covid response team are killers – and there is absoluletely no wriggle room on that in my moral universe and I make no apologies for the use of the term.
    
    We may be lucky still for reasons that are clear to us both – but certainly not, it would appear, to Bloomfield and co…”
    
    He is referring to the luck of our environmental conditions that always was going to soften Covid impact relative to places like Bergamo with high air pollution, lack of wind, lack of UV, low ozone levels, etc
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:08am
    - Andrei
      
      There are lots of things you can do to mitigate the impact of Covid on those who might be vulnerable to it
      
      Shutting down the economy and closing schools is not among them – that is using “a sledgehammer to crack a walnut”
      
      But whatever you do people are still going to get old sick and die.
      
      It is our fate
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:36am
    - GTRandRB
      
      Interesting info on the air ventilation – I still cringe when I see people exercising with a face mask on – the co2 and other toxins must taste horrible rebreathed again and again; I shall read more on the fresh air circulation you mention. Also – I applaud the people here like yourself who have started to look past the govt pulpit (as “the single source of truth” – makes me vomit remembering her saying that) and finding out some real feedback on the vaccine / virus saga – some of the facts are becoming harder and harder to hide – even for this red govt. VFF and NZDSOS is a great place to start – a grain of salt may be needed for some – but the body of what is said goes along with a fair few bloggers here. Mask – man, do not even get me started! PCR test (threshold) and “cases” (definition) – geewhizz the govt must think we are dumb to believe their scare/control tactics.
      
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      August 25, 2021 6:03am
  - Raphael
    
    It seems to be a Leftist/Wokeist habit to claim that they are going to Eliminate XYZ (which can not be eliminated).
    
    Our Government (both Labour and Greens MP’s) has promised:
    To get car accidents to zero.
    To get suicide (especially teen) to zero.
    To eliminate child poverty
    To eliminate the housing shortage
    To eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels
    And to eliminate Covid-19
    
    Apart from C19 (which obviously came later) ever one of those has worsened since we got this government.
    And proclamations of Year of Delivery and Year of the Vaccine have all failed miserably.
    
    It is becoming clear that we can’t eliminate C19 (at least not with the current vaccines and not without permanently banning all international travel and shipping) so the government needs to realise that the goal of elimination is not a valid approach.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:33am
    - Tony Quotes
      
      Agree totally. The obsession with moral purity is a symptom of a decadent society on its last legs.
      
      I heard Roger Scruton once say the reason why leftism is more attractive than conservatism, is that “hesitate” is not a great rallying cry.
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:30pm
- redeye
  
  Bloomfield let slip last Friday that he has recommended full lockdown until the 31st.
  But she made everyone wait until Monday for her to hog the limelight and declare what most already knew.
  A complete disregard for anyone trying to organise their lives. It’s all about her.
  The least honest government I can remember.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:13am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    IMHO the woman has a major problem with narcissim. Now all Pollies have at least some but she really takes the cake. Last Saturday the Heralds business editor wrote a piece saying instead of blathering on at the Pulpit of Truth the PM should get up there tell us how many new cases hospitalisation and deaths that day and in total and what the lockdown plan is an then bugger off.
    
    Instead she twitters on about the team of 5 million wash your hands wear a mask blah blah blah before we get to it.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:25am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Don’t forget the now standard “Before I give an update on COVID cases I have some mmmarvellous news about the vaccination rollout!
      
      Conveniently omitting the fact that if our vaccination rollout was anything approaching that which we’d been promised, or that which a competent and well-prepared gummint would have delivered, there wouldn’t need to be a lockdown in the first place.
      
      Charlatans, liars and grifters, every last one of them.
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:52pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Her marvelous new was meaningless.
        
        A large percentage of partially vaccinated and people who are booked?
        
        Meaningless.
        
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        August 24, 2021 10:25pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Are they producing COVID numbers to order? How many of the New “cases” have any symptoms? Are they a statistical artifact of having a massive test program and the problematic PCR tests senses the odd one over the boundary.
    
    The test was not designed for population testing and anomalies can be created easily by changing the initialisation. It is complicated test for lab DNA investigation. When so few appear out of the very large number tested we have to be certain that these are not false positives before locking down NZ.
    Who tests the testers? Who is auditing the processes?
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:40am
    - paulscott
      
      Kev [9.40] NZ labs are not able to make a finding of the genome ‘Delta’ overnight, and probably not at all . The PCR test as you say is not a diagnostic tool. It measures only nucleic acid on the swab and that is not an indicator in itself. You do not need an auditor for the messianic truth .
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:36pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        How then are tests being categorised and NZ locked down by petty politicians with improper information?
        
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        August 24, 2021 2:27pm
  - burt
    
    Surely the point of the briefing from the podium of truth is to tell us the case numbers and the lockdown plan – why can’t there be a 5 minute summary right at the start outlining the facts and then those that want to stay on for half an hour to hear the Labour Party sales pitch can do so.
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:54am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      Because the facts are so light in terms of their real world import and are mundane, they need the theatrics and emotivism to keep up the pretense that this is an emergency. They could just summarise it all online daily, but that would be simply cold hard data, and so it would not serve the necessary political purpose.
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:24pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The briefing has to follow the law. Bloomfield as as top MOH only has the authority to make and promulgate certain decisions. Cabinet may feel as it pleases but they have to dance to his tune and get the steps right. Timing and publication in the NZ Gazette may be required. Any incorrect step could invalidate their actions.
      The quality of the tests on which the decisions are based are critical. Second rate or doubtful are not test results but to be ignored. That’s why I expect a quality control certification audit.
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:34pm
- Master Mariner
  
  After numerous OIA requests regarding getting NZ seafarers home ( And to work), It is obvious by the correspondance is that “public perception” and social media responses rate at the top of the list of their concerns as opposed to “Just getting the job done”.
  Herein lies the problem with no fixed outcomes , Targets and results.
  The huge disconnect between reality and feet on the ground ( coal face ) is what is dividing this country.
  Like I have always said, All politicians should be pychometric tested for review before voting.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:22am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Where’s your evidence of division?
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:27am
    - gravedodger
      
      Clearly just beyond your ability to reason and comprehend, McDonald.
      Even just muddling it around in your warped cranial space might give clues, then again perhaps not.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:45am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Im sure your pychometric test would make for some interesting reading.
      Move on Son.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:58am
- Nickc2
  
  Hey Robin, here’s a job for your BFF! Meanwhile in Gotham City . . . . . they all lived happily ever after.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:31am
- I remember when
  
  RugbyPass.com
  ‘Inevitable – All Whites consider name change to avoid offence.
  “However, none rankle like the All Whites, which can be read to mean excluding other ethnicities.”
  I just hope Jacinda can get the Senior Analyst before all sport’s team names need to be replaced.
  Must take a couple of Panadol and have a lie down.
  Anyway, I thought Black and White aren’t really colours, just the lack of colour.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    …and what are The Maori All Black’s doing, if not excluding other ethnicities, by their very name….?
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:07am
    - Ruawai
      
      And you have to actually be a maori, they exclude all other races.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:58am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Well they say that, but I’ve seen some pretty pale “maoris” in that team.
        
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        August 24, 2021 2:21pm
  - 7kiwi11
    
    Black is the absence of colour. White is all the colours – so it is very inclusive!
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:21am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Depends upon whether you use the additive or subtractive colour model
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:03am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Brown is a problem as it is a mixture of red and green.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:42am
  - Yabster
    
    All Blacks, Black caps, White ferns, Tall Blacks, Black Ferns -the list goes on…- all mention a colour- are they racist no – woke twits on the football board- hope the name stays.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:25am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      It’s the wokes new crusade. Football. It started in England and of course those vessels of received wisdom follow hysterically down the same road terrified of being left behind the UK and North American hipsters.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:02am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Don’t forget our glorious national Badminton team – the Black Cocks.
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:25pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    Yeah well, you know that the offical lefty definition of Racism is that it’s something that only white people can be.
    
    FWIW Change the name, I’m sure football is grown up enough to stop defining itself in term of the All Blacks now.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:40am
  - surfing
    
    All blacks are screwed then, they are racist AF if the all whites are considered racist.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:59am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    They talk about “barriers to full participation” – I’d like them to name one.
    
    I wonder if Winston Reid, or Wynton Rufer for that matter, ever thought “Gee I’d love to play soccer football for Aotearoa, but I’m a bit put off by the name of the team. Maybe I’ll try rugby or basketball, or hockey. Anything with “Black” in the name.”
    
    Didn’t think so.
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:24pm
    - alloytoo
      
      I suffer from barriers to participation.
      
      I’m too old and too lazy.
      
      but primarily, before those barriers arose, I lacked the skill.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:28pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Disinformation
  
  NOUN
  
  False information which is intended to mislead, especially propaganda issued by a government organization to a rival power or the media.
  
  ‘the entire Western intelligence system had been systematically manipulated with clever disinformation’
  
  https://www.lexico.com/definition/disinformation
  
  Sounds about right ?
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:37am
  - Simon
    
    Disinformation is the new racism.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:06am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  which disinformation do they want to target first? Homes for all? 100,000 kiwibuild houses to be built? Front of the queue for vaccines? falsely accusing someone of rape? I could go on all day about the disinformation spread by this lot
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:42am
- Yvette
  
  Happychappy – a question for the new DPM and Cabinet’s Senior Analyst for Covid Disinformation –
  
  I am confused about vaccinations. With the “help” of a friend, who may not have quite “helped”.
  
  I maintained that if two people are equally infected by someone covid positive – like the now famous “MIQ hotel doors opposite opening for only a few seconds” scenario – so each receive the same dose, if one was vaccinated and the other was not, if a third poor bugger happened by, either of the two could infect him or her equally, and with a similar viral load.
  
  It is only if there is sufficient time for the covid virus to actually develop in the bodies of the first two recipients, that there is a difference – with the unvaccinated person likely to develop the full disease, and able to pass on a heavy viral load to someone else, while the vaccinated person should not develop such a severe disease and passes on a lesser viral load.
  
  My friend suggests a vaccinated person, if equally exposed as another person beside him, will receive a lesser dose.
  My contention is a vaccination is only of use to me, in reducing the severity of the disease, and of use to others, in that any viral load I may pass on, in my developed infection, is a reduced amount.
  Can anyone find an official Government reference, I can’t.
  This does of course have quite a bearing on heard immunity, vaccination passes and possibly things yet to come.
  
  Asking for a friend.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:53am
  - PhilBest
    
    Actually the big factors are: concentration of aerosolized virus in the air, depending on ventilation, size of the room, duration the infected is there; and then the duration you are there inhaling virus. The infected person does not even have to be there at the same time as you.
    
    NOBODY has died from spending 15 minutes in a Supermarket where an infected person also spent 15 minutes, let alone just walking past an infected person. Everyone who dies spent hours or even days, inhaling viruses. “Inoculum dose” matters. A very high concentration of virus might occur in a small space that an infected person spent a long time in, and someone else spending a mere half an hour there might end up getting a deadly dose, but this is rare; mostly it is about YOUR “duration”.
    
    Confining people in small spaces in Quarantine facilities with internally recirculated air for 2 weeks is potentially manslaughter.
    
    The vaccine trials did not make the slightest attempt to “control” for these obvious factors. They were about as good as trialling a bullet proof vest on all military personnel EXCEPT those fighting at the front lines. Of course breakthrough infections will be happening as people try to “go back to normal life” and the same risk circumstances recur. Rest Homes are the ultimate “killing environment”.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:17am
  - Simon
    
    This will help:
    
    Israel’s Prime Minister is crazy (or an idiot):
    “People who received two vaccine shots walk around feeling like they are protected… they don’t understand that the second vaccine has faded against the “Delta” – they must quickly get vaccinated with the 3rd dose!”.
    
    https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1429894624005476353
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:09am
  - dcrane
    
    Not sure I fully understand the question, but vaccinated people presumably suffer less severe disease because their bodies mobilise to clear the infection more quickly, and as a result they should have lower viral loads on average, and be less likely to spread it. Nonetheless, we have seen evidence that at least some vaccinated people can have high viral loads.
    
    One perverse aspect to consider is that people with reduced symptoms may be more likely to spread the disease because they perceive themselves not to be sick, or not sick with covid, and end up spending more time around others.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:59am
    - Raphael
      
      mRNA vaccines are new technology. We don’t have any data of their long term effects (positive or negative).
      It is clear that the Pfizer vaccine does not stop one for getting C19 and being a carrier of C19. The vaccines we have to date will not eliminate C19.
      
      There is some evidence to suggest that if you have the vaccine, you’re more likely to deal with getting C19 better, which would help keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. But at the same time there is some evidence that it causes other issues which may have long term effects (Doctors in South Africa are raising concerns about micro-clotting which could cause serious issues in 5-10 years).
      
      It’s also worth noting that in Pfizer’s own trial of 45000 people over 6 months, there were 14 C19 deaths in the control/placebo group and 15 C19 deaths in the vaccinated group. Statistically insignificant to the total (less than 1% deaths) but does show that it’s not preventing deaths.
      https://techstartups.com/2021/08/03/new-pfizers-funded-study-45000-patients-conducted-6-months-found-15-deaths-vaccinated-people-versus-14-deaths-unvaccinated-placebo-group/
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:19pm
      - GTRandRB
        
        I agree – caution should be exercised with regards to the mRNA tech they are marketing to us all. Another snippet of info: the Pfizer trial control/placebo group were also offered the vaccine partway thru the trial period “for their own protection since covid was running rife”, and most did indeed opt to receive it??!!! How then is that a unbiased trial – blows my mind. Initially we were told that having the vaccine makes you less likely to end up in hospital, and less likely to spread the virus (by pure definition of a vaccine these have failed – they do not sterilize the virus in a person like a vaccine should – it can still be passed on); however it seems even these claims are optimistic as best – time is beginning to tell.
        
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        August 25, 2021 6:58am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Re immunity, this in today’s Daily Telegraph : Hidden immunity: Why booster jabs may not be needed after all
    
    In May, researchers at Washington University School of Medicine, who studied 77 recovering Covid patients found that while antibodies declined over time, bone marrow plasma cells, capable of producing antibodies against the virus, remained stable.
    
    It means that people who have recovered from an infection have immunity hidden away in their bones ready to spring into action. This type of dialed-down protection could last decades, or even a lifetime, the researchers believe.
    
    The team also found patients were carrying memory B-cells – a type of white blood cell – which patrols the blood looking for the virus.
    
    In fact, the researchers noted that the levels of B-cells found in recovered Covid-19 patients are equal to people vaccinated against tetanus or diphtheria, both vaccines that provide long-term immunity to those diseases.
    
    Similarly, researchers from The Rockefeller University, New York, recently found that recovered Covid patients still have immunity a year after infection, including antibodies that were “exceptionally resistant” to variants.
    
    Memory B-Cells, and memory T-Cells. We’ll hear more about these I suspect.
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:52pm
    - GTRandRB
      
      I was unable to read that article due to not being registered – but did it mention that people had been previously vaccinated – the ones who had the B-cells T-cells etc? Or is that more a general statement about long lasting immunity after covid? I am reading a lot of good positives about the good ole natural covid immunity, the human body really is pretty amazing what it can do by itself.
      
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      August 25, 2021 7:08am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The more a regime wants to control the narrative, the louder it will shout “disinformation!!”
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:14am
- Clownworld
  
  Oops if I clicked down thumb accidentally.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:25am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Congratulations Happy you’ve managed to say the same thing in different ways 1,000 times. What a record.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:26am
  - Happychappy
    
    Brian McDonald I have always said this was about Jacinda Ardern seeking fame,
    and here she is talking about ambitions.
    Covid – 19 : Judith Collins sets target for reopening, Jacinda Ardern says ambitions is far beyond what other countries have achieved.
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says will settle for nothing less than “best in the world” when it comes to what level of vaccine coverage would be required for opening our borders.
    So Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister shows her true colours, it’s about ambitions not what New Zealander’s want it’s the fame and notability that apparently Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister needs and wants.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/covid-19-judith-collins-sets-vaccine-rollout-target-for-reopening-ardern-says-ambition-is-far-beyond-what-other-countries-have-achieved.html
    So it’s all about Jacinda Ardern not about what’s good for New Zealand and our economy.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:08am
    - Happychappy
      
      I only had to use Jacinda Ardern’s name six times to shut you up Brian.
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:38pm
  - Unity
    
    Why are you always sarcastic and negative, Brian? Also, are you the same Brian McDonald who runs the Scott Watson page?
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:15am
- Scott
  
  As I write I’m in line waiting for a covid jab. There is a long line because of the social distancing arrangements and everything is way slower than when I had my first jab.
  With urgency all this should have been done months ago. Kiwibuild has been followed by kiwijab. Sad ?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    Couldn’t agree more Scott. I received a text msg in the middle of last night telling me the vaccination centre I was to attend this morning for my 2nd jab would be closed and I need to re-book. To say I’m pissed off would be an understatement given the drama involved in getting the initial booking.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:27pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Ditto, except I only checked my phone when I enroute to said vaccination.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:33pm
  - Sede Vacante
    
    Sad to hear that you’ve capitulated. Pathetic actually.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:28pm
- Spoff
  
  France’s long-time vaccine policy chief: Covid policy is “completely stupid” and “unethical”
  https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/frances-long-time-vaccine-policy-chief-covid-policy-is-completely-stupid-and-unethical
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:46am
  - GTRandRB
    
    WOW! Best article that I have read/listened to yet. This should be front page news in every country. Highly educational – and re-enforces everything that I have read in the past few months.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:59am
- all true
  
  Just listen to this one – https://brandnewtube.com/watch/science-has-evolved-from-science-to-science-fiction_xukJWCfS8d7x7eq.html?fbclid=IwAR1Nk7_smwLCmaM4FPazODQ6Z7QfO576xRZ4_tN5rG5CPT4K6dX3VMDhgx4
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:03am
- paulscott
  
  [Deleted – not here. Post it on your own space. Mod]
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:44pm
- herb1
  
  Why do we need to spend $100 k hiring someone to stop the spread of misinformation.
  Just stop Arderns Press conferences.
  Failing that pass a law that requires all volume knobs on TV and radio be set to zero when Ardern is speaking
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:58pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  For obvious reasons, the successful applicant would be wanting total anonymity.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:37pm
Vory v zakone

The week that was…

_Sweden’s Prime Minister Stefan Lofven will step down in November
_British commander in Afghanistan calls for Joe Biden’s court-martial
_Aussies begin to resist the lockdowns..”‘They can’t arrest us all”
(Horse-mounted protesters steal the show at an Australian anti-lockdown rally)
_France: Tens of thousands rally in Paris against COVID health pass for 6th consecutive weekend.
_Chaotic scenes as protesters break through police barricades in Melbourne, Australia
_NIH Director Admits School Mask Mandates Enforced on Children Are Not Based on COVID-19 Data.
_20,595 DEAD 1.9 MILLION INJURED (50% SERIOUS) REPORTED IN EUROPEAN UNION’S DATABASE OF ADVERSE DRUG REACTIONS FOR COVID-19 SHOTS
_Covid vaccine trials were stopped in animals because they kept dying ?
_Brazil Court Rules Against Google Over Censorship of Trump Statements: Allan Dos Santos
_More Than Half of Israeli COVID-19 Patients Vaccinated as ‘Breakthrough Cases’ rise.
_Border Patrol Seizes Thousands of Fake CDC COVID-19 Vaccine Cards coming from China.
_ Rail workers are going on strike against the vaccine passport in France from August 28th to October 17th.
_2nd round of German railways STRIKES to begin
_Amazing energy in Amsterdam as the Netherlands joined the millions around the world making their voices heard against Covid tyranny.
_16 COUNTRIES through Europe will hold Protests in major cities and capitals in the next weeks with hundreds of cities slated across the world to protest against the lockdowns, vaccines, vaccine passports and especially vaccine mandates.
_Donald Trump says “Everything woke turns to shit!.” and had over tens of millions tune into his live speech Saturday night
_BCC drops four major stories on vaccine deaths. Vaccine booster schemes and warning “Is catching Covid now better than more vaccines?”
“Gain immunity either through vaccines or Infection”
_The vaccinated are worried and the scientists don’t have answers.
an article by Kristen V Brown hits Bloomberg
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August 24, 2021 8:00am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile is there a US Grand Jury investigating participants in the creation of the Covid 19 pandemic?
  And are they recommending an indictment for Dr Anthony Fauci based on the evidence obtained?
  (eg from witness testimonies and more of his emails that have surfaced)
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good grief.
  
  So you think that the vaccines have killed 20,595 people in the EU? This data base just holds data on people who died within hours (or days whatever) of receiving the vaccine.
  
  About 13,000 people die in the EU every day. That is 540 every hour of every day. Most of them old. In the EU about 99 percent of people 80 and over have had the vaccine.
  
  I am sure you can see where this is heading. With hundreds of millions of shots, hundreds of old people will die within hours or a couple of days of receiving the vaccine. Just because.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:56am
  - westernScientest
    
    That is the typical way covid deaths seem to be counted, so why not vaccines deaths?
    I agree it is ridiculous to claim they are vaccine deaths, but it is also ridiculous to claim everyone who died within 28 days of a positive covid test is a covid death. At lest it is consistent
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:08am
    - GTRandRB
      
      @westernScientest 0908am – very well said!!! Same rules of reporting must apply – fair is fair. Hilarious really how they think they can change the rules when the shoe is on the other foot!
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:04am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    But surely if a person is so sick or close to death that they were going to die in a few hours or days, the would NOT be lining up to get a Covid19 jab, would they?
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:13am
    - dcrane
      
      Admittedly people about to have a stroke or heart attack rarely know it’s coming a few days before.
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:03am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      They cannot have it both ways though:
      
      Died soon after Covid infection and with other factors present– Covid death
      
      Died soon after Covid vaccine but with no other factors present – not related to vaccine
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:32pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death.
    
    It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death.
    
    So, everyone who’s listed as a COVID death doesn’t mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death.”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ_MDDY6bXA
    ☝️?
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:14am
  - PhilBest
    
    And guess what. The same principle applied to “Covid deaths”. A positive PCR test meant that the death was “from Covid”. PCR is a hyper sensitive research tool, not a diagnosis of illness.
    
    Approximately 85% to 95% of “Covid deaths” once PCR testing was ramped up, always were old people dying of whatever they were going to die of anyway.
    
    Furthermore, the deaths in “second waves” so-called, were certainly contributed to by “immune deficit” from lockdowns, so people were dying of rebounding “other respiratory illnesses” and non-respiratory illnesses, and those PCR tests were being abused to say “these deaths are Covid”.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:25am
  - Simon
    
    “So you think that the vaccines have killed 20,595 people in the EU? This data base just holds data on people who died within hours (or days whatever) of receiving the vaccine.”
    
    Lol – what about the 1.9 million injured? (Underreported)
    
    Look people get injured all the time. They fall off ladders, in car smashes, eat bad food right after the ro vax! Just because.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:01am
  - burt
    
    Benedict Yu
    
    It’s always interesting reading how differently we count vaccine deaths to covid deaths.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:01pm
  - paulscott
    
    Yes Benedict [8.56] so the figures of 99% injected elderly in Europe >> you can give us source of figures ? no?. You always head to doctrinal self knowledge Benedict, always.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:47pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No I always head to data.
      
      Sorry I only have time to get the UK data – I am working.
      70 – 75 – 99.9%
      75 – 80 – 99.9%
      80 plus – 94.0%
      
      https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/COVID-19-weekly-announced-vaccinations-19-August-2021.pdf
      
      I don’t know why you are surprised. How many people over 70 are not going to be vaccinated?
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:33pm
  - Vory v zakone
    
    It’s not about what I ‘believe’ my worthy oriental gentleman. I am just providing data from relevant authorities.
    
    Like in the UK, the vaccinated are dying at a much higher rate with the Delta ‘variant’.
    
    Public Health England releases “Technical Briefings” every couple of weeks.
    
    The latest Briefing shows that…
    
    VACCINATED:
    679 deaths / 73,372 cases = 0.00925421
    0.00925421*100,000 = 925 deaths per 100 thousand
    
    UNVACCINATED:
    390 deaths / 183,133 cases = 0.0021296
    0.0021296*100,000 = 213 deaths per 100 thousand
    
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf
    
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    August 24, 2021 5:37pm
- rockape
  
  And Kiwi sheep are just pleased to have a few more days off work.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:59am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    Yes but the REWI ALLEYS friends are coming
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    Especially the ones paid from the Taxpayer.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:28am
    - ABS4EVA
      
      REWI the NAKED SHEEP FARMER
      
      Naturalist Socialist SHEEP LOVER
      
      Industrialised CHINA
      For YOUR FREEDOM
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:15pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Try to keep up Vory, Trump recently encouraged his supporters to get vaccinated.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:25am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Booster Shots Are Crazy – President Trump
    
    President Donald Trump told Fox Business host Maria Bartiromo, that vaccine booster shots aren’t medically necessary for most people, and are instead being pushed by pharmaceutical companies purely for profit.
    
    “That sounds to me like a money-making operation for Pfizer.
    
    You wouldn’t think you would need a booster. You know, when these first came out, they were good for life. Then they were good for a year or two. And I could see the writing on the wall. I could see the dollar signs in their eyes of that guy that runs Pfizer. You know, the guy that announced the day after the election that he had the vaccine.
    
    Think of the money involved. An extra shot… How good a business is that? If you’re a pure businessman, you’d say ‘you know what, let’s give them another shot,’ that’s another $10 billion of money coming in.
    
    The whole thing is just crazy.”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtGEfGY-v54
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:41am
  - burt
    
    Trump recently encouraged his supporters to get vaccinated.
    
    Why would anyone listen to anything he says, he’s mad enough to think COVID escaped a lab that was being funded by the US.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:02pm
    - Ian Hawthorn
      
      I think you are mad to believe covid couldn’t escape from a virology lab funded by the US. Especially one in China.
      
      Enhanced function research so dangerous that it is banned on US soil. US scientists were trying to get around the ban by doing their research in China. Does anything about this situation seem safe to you?
      
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      August 24, 2021 4:08pm
  - paulscott
    
    Yes that’s right Brian [9.25 ]. That was before Trump knew about the mad Fauci and his Greek lettered patents, his gain of function bioweapons, and insatiable thirst for his part in the vaccine control of the people.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:51pm
PhilBest

Most important video for everyone to know about

Kary Mullis: “With PCR you can find almost ANYTHING in ANYBODY”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHmVj3LTqrU
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August 24, 2021 8:02am
- Durden
  
  I am starting to suspect utility of wastewater testing results for Covid. I understand it also uses PCR techniques. And we are just told it is “positive” by the government — without context. (Note my comment does not refer to similar tests for non-DNA stuff like drugs etc)
  
  From ESR’s site–
  https://www.esr.cri.nz/our-expertise/covid-19-response/other-covid-19-work/wastewater-faqs/
  
  “PCR is a widely used methodology, is extremely sensitive and can produce false positive results particularly when we are looking for things at very low levels. ”
  
  “Based on what we have observed so far, our test is sensitive enough to discover approximately 10 cases in an area of 100,000 people. That’s not a hard and fast rule as some people shed at different rates based on time of infection, and there are many other factors that affect detection”
  
  In NZ, where ESR reported positive results before knowledge of positive tests in people , the early info has invariably led to no breakout (e.g. New Plymouth and last time in Wellington with the NSW weekend travellers)
  
  Finding covid in water after a real breakout is confirmed is not useful. But is that even a real/trustable result or simply helps confirm bias?
  
  So, right now in Wellington there were initally 2, maybe 3, patients in Miramar (who have now been moved into quarantine on the Terrace). The other cases were in Johnsonville.
  
  If the virus shed by 3 people could be found in the sewage which mixed with the whole city in Miramar, it must be crazy accurate. Even if all 8 known cases have been moved to the Mercure now, it is still far away from “10 cases in 100,000”
  
  I think ESR testing is being used by the government as a marketing/communication gimmick.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:03am
  - Sacha
    
    MY thoughts too. A dial-up test to ‘prove’ minuscule presence doesn’t ring true.
    Do they ever get a positive water test – and then go and find the infected person?
    “We have a positive test for 2001 Broadway, lets go get ’em!”
    I don’t think so.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:27am
  - PhilBest
    
    Actually wastewater testing is where PCR is appropriate, because you have such colossal volumes of waste and you need something hyper sensitive to pick up if there is a particular virus in it. It is using it to say a human being is a “Covid case” – at more than 30 amplification cycles of the test – that is completely wrong.
    
    However, we need to accept the reality that Covid will become endemic and it will always be detectable in waste water, just as thousands of viruses constantly are. HIV will be there always, for example, but that doesn’t mean there is an HIV epidemic.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:29am
    - dcrane
      
      But how can they know if they’re seeing evidence of new infection versus background DNA fragments being shed by people who were long ago infected? (We have seen such cases pop up in the swab testing.) Would just one new case in the community cause a large jump in the wastewater signal?
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:06am
      - PhilBest
        
        It would be a question what stage you are at. You are quite right that once Covid is well on the way to becoming endemic, wastewater testing is meaningless. It is really only meaningful if you went from “Covid being absent” to “Covid being present”.
        
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        August 24, 2021 12:47pm
    - paulscott
      
      I’m going to repeat after him PhilBest above ” However, we need to accept the reality that Covid will become endemic… just as thousands of viruses constantly are. ..
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:57pm
  - cmm
    
    In waste water testing it will depend on many factors – including the waste water that is being processed.
    
    Residential waste water will have relatively high concentrations of urine, but industrial waste water is way less so the detection levels would be different.
    
    As I understand it, a considerable amount of the waste water processed in Christchurch is actually drainage that has not been through any human. That will significantly dilute any tests.
    
    Due to this variability, the effectiveness of waste water testing is likely to vary very considerably from area to area.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:10am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Good to see that the Auckland Art Gallery has been named as a COVID outbreak place of interest. I was beginning to think the recent Delta spread was passing the artsy community by.
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August 24, 2021 8:05am
- hullkiwi
  
  What do you mean? The coffee latte sipping shops of Grey Lynn have already made the list!
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:12am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  It certainly doesn’t like the citizens of Coromandel.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:17am
  - Ruahine
    
    People from the Coromandel are outdoors and in the sunshine.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:30am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  It works wonders on door to door salesman, son had one really giving the shits the other day, he let him go for a few minutes, he then said, just don’t get to close mate, I have a temperature, runny nose, and a cough, I am off to have a test.
  He fell over himself exiting at the speed of light.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:49am
  - paulscott
    
    haha Greg [9.48] same way I always get a seat on the Bangkok fast train, just the teeniest whisper of a cough, just a teensy little tracheal gurgle …and ….
    
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    August 24, 2021 1:00pm
PhilBest

Gary Moller speaking out:

https://www.garymoller.com/post/this-is-going-a-step-too-far?postId=e16b546f-def5-4e88-92eb-3407afb78fcc

Our Great Leader and her lightweight advisers have instructed us to do the following:

– Act like you have COVID.

– Keep your dog on a leash. (Gary: what! Do they mean your dog might pass your dirty virus to the other dog which then passes it on to its owner! Is that what they mean?)

– Do not talk to your neighbours.

This is going several steps too far. This is pseudoscience and nothing more than terrorising and taking advantage of good people who only want to do what is right for their country. People are now in such a state of psychosis that they are following this ridiculous advice to the letter. It is turning New Zealand into the psychiatric institution I once worked in!

You might have noticed a change in my tone with the beginning of the latest Lockdown beginning last week. This is because:

A year and a half have passed and nothing has been done to address the reasons why Kiwis are so vulnerable to a virus and ripe for the Pandemic Pickings. We are running out of time and out of options.

All alternatives to the vaccine have been suppressed or banned. Doctors have been threatened with losing their license to practice if they do not toe the line.

With each scare, the noose of restrictions and impingements on our freedoms tightens.

There is now a national epidemic of psychosis causing not just a massive upsurge of mental health disorders but also physical ill-health. Health services are barely coping.

For the last year, many renowned international experts have been voicing deep concerns that the pandemic response by most countries, including New Zealand is deeply flawed and likely to not only fail but do immense harm. They were not just ignored but ridiculed and censored. Guess what: they were right!

The vaccine does not prevent transmission and it encourages mutations.

We face never-ending rounds of vaccinations, lockdowns and loss of civil liberties. Just look at what is happening in Australia right now.

We are losing yet more billions of dollars and there is no way out. We can not afford to waste even more billions per year on a strategy that is fast proving to be a failure.

There is no plan, if there is one, they are making it up as they go, or they are not telling us what it is and what is the End Game if there is one. We are being treated like we are stupid little children.

Our Government and its advisers are clearly dimwits.
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August 24, 2021 8:05am
- crikey
  
  Yes, our Government and its advisers clearly are dimwits, but (worse) so are the media and Ardern’s unquestioning disciples.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:56am
  - Sacha
    
    Not to forget the people who voted for them . . . . .
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:30am
- surfing
  
  Rubbish, vaccines do not encourage mutation. Although, vaccines do alter the evolutionary path of covid by favouring vaccine resistant mutations.
  
  You refer to overseas publications that criticise NZ’s response, but their criticism is always that we have not vaccinated quickly enough – which is in polar opposition to your argument. So, maybe not a great idea quoting those publications.
  
  You indicate that lockdowns and vaccination are co-dependent, but this is a falsehood. We will have one , or the other… if we do not vaccinate then lockdowns are necessary, conversely if we vaccinate then lockdowns will no longer be necessary.
  
  Your argument is ill-thought.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:41am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Leaky vaccines do encourage the selection of successful virus mutants. Because those that survive the vaccine will be in sufficient numbers to cause reinfection.
    
    With a sterilising vaccine, some mutants may well escape but very rarely in the volumes needed for transmission.
    
    So the current vaccines are indeed most likely driving the evolution of the Covid virus towards strains less affected by the vaccines themselves.
    
    This is also a natural process without vaccination with the norm being evolution towards transmissibility and usually though not necessarily to towards lowered lethality. Latest results I’ve seen suggest that the “delta” variant is roughly 2-3 x more transmissible and something around 40% as lethal/serious. Hard to separate the natural from the vaccine forced evolution, but it has been seen before with imperfect vaccines and is no doubt playing some part here in helping drive evolution more quickly.
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:39am
    - PhilBest
      
      This French contrarian expert’s opinion is “out there”:
      
      https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/frontlinenews/immunization-expert-unvaccinated-people-are-not-dangerous-vaccinated-people-are-dangerous-for-others/
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:50pm
      - surfing
        
        I agree with this. Best get vaccinated then.
        
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        August 24, 2021 1:58pm
    - surfing
      
      https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210813/Research-debunks-myth-that-COVID-vaccination-promotes-mutations.aspx
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:16pm
  - GTRandRB
    
    Amazing how this pandemic has made everyone a medical expert… educate yourself by reading this interview with one of the top-dogs from France – he wrote their vaccine policy previous to covid19 and is perhaps almost over-qualified to have an opinion on these world matters https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/frances-long-time-vaccine-policy-chief-covid-policy-is-completely-stupid-and-unethical
    
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    August 26, 2021 6:21am
- paulscott
  
  once again, what he said philBest to Gary Moller speaking out:
  https://www.garymoller.com/post/this-is-going-a-step-too-far?postId=e16b546f-def5-4e88-92eb-3407afb78fcc
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:11pm
CAKE FACE1

I’m concerned that our Zero Covid nut job “strategy” will eventually send us bankrupt.

Given that we are now in Level 4 lockdown, shouldn’t the economists be releasing a new set of figures about how much this never-ending ugly show is costing us?

One quality-adjusted life year (QALY) is equal to 1 year of life in perfect health.

With regards to Covid, how much is the Treasury now calculating each QALY is costing???

We don’t want to be investing wheelbarrows of freshly printed NZ dollars in the trillions of dollars, to only give one person one year of life in perfect health …
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August 24, 2021 8:07am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  How can this country go bankrupt?
  I mean, house prices are going through the roof, and the share market is at a high! (Not just in this country.)
  
  What is the elephant in the room?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:03am
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    Countries go bankrupt when their exchange rates collapse.
    
    Typically, the currency grinds slowly downwards for many years, and then some trigger point occurs, and the exchange rates then fall off a cliff.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:14am
    - PhilBest
      
      But in the current time, every currency in the world is being hyper inflated. So there can’t be much in the way of “relative” exchange rate collapses. Something bigger has to be going to happen. I say Ludwig Von Mises will ultimately be proved right.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:31am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        The global economy will get bitch-slapped by the Invisible Hand…
        
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        August 24, 2021 1:21pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      This is true.
      I asked my friend how he went bankrupt. He replied, “First, very slowly; but later, very quickly!”
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:45am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      The 10 trillion dollar Zimbabwean note comes to mind, it is now real collectors item.
      Its a bargain 10 trillion dollars for $30
      https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-TRILLION-ZIMBABWE-UNC-BANK-NOTE-2008-AA-TEN-TRILLION-ZIM-BOND-CURRENCY-/154170604445?hash=item23e548bb9d
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:54am
      - miltonF
        
        $30!? Wow. I bought one of those notes a few years ago for $6. Has turned out to be a great investment!
        
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        August 24, 2021 12:16pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Govt manipulation and incompetence coupled with lies promising stuff that can’t or won’t be delivered.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:29am
  - pdm
    
    The current elephant in the New Zealand room is a Finance Minister and a Prime Minister both promoted well above their personal life experience and capabilities.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:05am
  - Liberty
    
    How can this country go bankrupt?
    
    By spending on crap projects. Which are more to do with the Labour Government Marxist agenda than a sound investment.
    For example wasting 30million on investigating on how to make water run up hill with its deluded plain to build a Pumped hydo station.
    By using theoretically cheaper power from one power station to refill
    Another is insane. You end up using far more water to produce the same amount of electricity for industry at a higher cost.
    If the country needs more energy. Increase the height of Lake Onslow
    And gravity feed when needed to an existing station.
    Develop the gaz field found of the Oamaru coast https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122319866/4-billion-lake-onslow-pumped-hydro-scheme-could-tip-electricity-market-on-head
    https://www.energyresources.org.nz/news/new-study-shows-exciting-gas-potential-for-canterbury/
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:31am
  - surfing
    
    Yet, most of you didn’t want a capital gains tax!
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:00am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Capital gains taxes are present in many places overseas, and it doesn’t seem to have changed the property bubble effect.
      
      Face it, the primary cause of housing price inflation is quite simply that the volume of money printing over the last 10-12 years has to go SOMEWHERE. And residential property is the most obvious and apparently safest place to invest. The money printing was the solution to the financial problems that started in 2008, but as always, there are unintended side effects, with politicians becoming addicted to the use of the money pump and neglecting to consider these flow on issues.
      
      To be fair, NZ would have considerable trouble implementing significant changes on its own. Raising interest rates and reducing monetary inflation would very quickly push our exchange rate up if not matched by our major trading partners.
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:45am
    - PhilBest
      
      If you are talking about houses – actually the land they are sitting on – don’t tax the capital gains; use land value taxes as a greater source of revenue (reduce income and sales taxes). LVT’s would be far more simple and effective than CGT’s which have “cans of worms” everywhere you look.
      
      Best of all is just abolish those dam urban growth boundaries.
      
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      August 24, 2021 12:53pm
  - paulscott
    
    Odakyu-sen the Elephant in the room is a delusional single minded focus belief system by Western leaders . Ardern is only one example. We are heading toward a Police State and we must resist with every force and method we can muster
    
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    August 24, 2021 1:19pm
- surfing
  
  Zero covid makes sense while vaccination rates are low, otherwise we could see 90 deaths per day. Is that an acceptable death rate for you?
  
  This government is entirely to blame for this lockdown because of the incompetent vaccine rollout.
  
  I don’t know why people are not more angry (the Australian PM is apologising but our PM is gloating).
  
  The UK appears to be doing particularly well, deaths are down from 1200 per day at peak, to around 40 per day as of now. That would translate to NZ having 3 deaths per day, and likely those deaths have contributing co-morbidity factors.
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:00am
  - PhilBest
    
    The reduced mortality trend in the UK was already happening without vaccination. Vaccinations are just shutting the stable door after the horse has gone.
    
    The desperation with which an illusion is trying to be created to the contrary, stinks of bad faith. The idea that natural immunity is ineffective, for example, is a lie that would make Goebbels blush. But people who had Covid already “must be jabbed or no job or travel”. Come on, this is now just plain satanic.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:56pm
  - GTRandRB
    
    I downticked after reading your first sentence… then actually ended up agreeing with the rest of what you wrote :-/
    
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    August 26, 2021 6:28am
I remember when

Yesterday one in every 11,585 reported cases of covid in the world was in New Zealand, according to worldometer.
So we had .0086% of all the cases in the world.
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August 24, 2021 8:08am
Maggie's partner

I watched the PM’s performance yesterday – I think she’s right on the edge – wringing and scratching her hands constantly throughout.
She knows “her people” are angry, she knows the press are starting to turn on her. She knows her strategy is a busted flush.
Perhaps she also knows her time is almost up?
That, IMO, will be when she is at her most dangerous
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August 24, 2021 8:10am
- crikey
  
  Understandable that Ardern might be right on the edge. She has much more to lose than control of Covid-19. All her long-term socialist strategy is likely to be out the window.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:00am
  - Simon
    
    The Cindy midwit is under pressure. Hence closing parliament. Being under pressure and a midwit is a bad combination. She will continue to make bad decisions.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:15am
- Nickc2
  
  Well, she’s stood down Parliament so she’s got plenty of time to get her shit together.
  Her spin doctors will be working overtime though.
  No doubt she will be using her time out to plan her beatification.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:33am
  - oldfella
    
    Nick2, re Glorious Leader’s beatification, I just read this incredible – and unflattering – article on horrid. Is the media worm starting to turn?
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/graham-adams-is-jacinda-ardern-the-messiah-or-just-a-very-crafty-politician/OX6JWIDJE2TA2RSCXVGMJVH77Q/
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:15pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Pass me the bucket oldfella. Even the photos have been Photoshopped.
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:34pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      Graham Adams seems very bitter that Jacinda Ardern is popular. He must prefer his women quiet and retiring.
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:35pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “P” is popular, what’s your point?
        
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        August 24, 2021 2:22pm
- Sacha
  
  I think she is a perfect example of the Peter Principle in action.
  I wouldn’t like to be in her shoes – she must know by now that she is making a muck of it.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:39am
- Paulus
  
  If she had any honesty she would resign before she has a physical collapse.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:07am
- JibberJabber
  
  “wringing and scratching “… Tweakers gonna Tweak.
  Watched her on the AM show a while back, classic symptoms.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:18am
- Tricati
  
  Agree, and the fact they have suspended parliament, but still holding caucus meetings, is alarming. Are they planning the next phase dual governance of NZ, as the Maori caucus has been very silent over the last few weeks.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is that why she closed Parliament because she can be broken there?
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:48am
Clyde

Is there any chance of St Jacinda sharing the exact details of that diagram she held up yesterday from the Podium of Truth detailing the hot-spots throughout the country? I’m not talking about “places of interest”, I’m talking about what makes, for instance, Dunedin a place warranting a big blue circle.
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August 24, 2021 8:11am
- Master Mariner
  
  Thinking the same Clyde with Nelson as well.
  
  First thought that comes to mind is the vaccine rollout chart from MOH as “proof” that they measure targets and goals.
  
  Absolutely meaningless but as “proof” SI needs to be locked down.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:07am
- Stu2
  
  Did you notice the lack of questions, perhaps no South Island media
  – how many of those contacts have been contacted
  – how many have had a day 5 test
  – how many day 5 test results known
  – how many contacts in Chch
  – how many contacts in Dunedin
  ….
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:15am
  - DeepBlue
    
    If I were advising JA from a health/economic perspective, I would say ring fence and prioritise the South Island contact tracing and testing over everything else. Restrict the 130 contacts asap and get SI to Level 2 by Friday. All those 130 could have a holiday at The Hermitage for a few weeks on the Government.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:29am
- DeepBlue
  
  More Mitre10 staff, simple.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:26am
Souvlaki

So, in addition to giving the Mongrel Mob $ 2.75M in what appears to be some money laundering ruse, I learn yesterday the Ardern Govt has donated $3M to the Taliban!
How do the female members of Labours caucus get their heads around that?Let alone the member of their large ” rainbow caucus”??
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August 24, 2021 8:11am
- rouppe
  
  And why? The Taliban is AWASH with cash. They have plenty to spend on their country, as long as they are willing to stop spending it on guns and bullets.
  
  It is a decision utterly out of touch with reality
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:14am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, the Arms and Ammunition our $3m could buy could also be used to kill/maim our kin and kids should the Taliban progress their jihad.
    WELL THOUGHT THROUGH CINDY – NOT
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:50am
- Maxx
  
  When it comes to naivety and seeking to avoid conflict at any cost, Ardern has surpassed Chamberlain. Of course the Taliban and the Mob are to be taken at their word that they seek peace and to correct the wrongs of the world. They’ve changed. Why haven’t you /s
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:19am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I believe it was to the Afghanistan Red Cross/Red Crescent
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:21am
  - cmm
    
    These days you might as well just give it all straight to the Taliban.
    
    Just like all donations of military kit from USA to the Afghan army are donations to the Taliban.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:05am
  - Simon
    
    “I believe it was to the Afghanistan Red Cross/Red Crescent”
    
    Thats what that utter fucking bag Helen Clark said. Of course any funds into that shithole props up the Taliban. Which that lying bag will know.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:18am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And the Taliban guy was very appreciative of our donation.
  Whose side are we on FFS?
  Unbelievable.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:23am
  - kevn
    
    @Captn… Just a bribe to expedite uplifting the NZer’s awaiting rescue at Kabul?
    
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    August 24, 2021 8:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interestingly (or not) the US have long left the Taliban off their list of terrorist organisations, despite the group exhibiting each and every determining criterion. In theory it means you or I could donate to them. But try that and you could expect the state to knock on your door at 4am
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:26am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes correct, However Russia still have taiban as a Terrorist Organisation. As do other countries.
    
    Much the same as Hammas.
    
    The interesting thing is that most Taliban are actually Pakistani and not Afghanistani.
    
    The irony is not lost on Pakistan rest assured. Of note, 2 years ago while working out of Karachi, The US embassy is the largest in the world. At least a mile long. Also Port where supplies for Afghanistan enter for US forces.
    
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    August 24, 2021 8:33am
  - oldfella
    
    krazy, I think you’re being a bit harsh on the Taliban. They’re not that bad or Twitter would have banned them. You know, the way they did with that evil Trump fellow. /s
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:48pm
- PhilBest
  
  “Donated”? You mean bribed them to let us extract a few people
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:41am
- rjay
  
  Of course. They supply opium poppies. Gotta keep the supply going.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:14am
- Parnell Gun Club
  
  How do the female members of Labour’s caucus get their heads around that? Simple. Deep down they crave being dominated (according to Jordan Peterson anyway).
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:26am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What vote items have the Mongrel Mob payments and the Taliban one come out of?
  
  That money is taxpayers money and has to be approved by Parliament, not just a Labour Caucus. Borrow and spend does not confer the rights to do as they please either–that future generations of taxpayers earnings at stake.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:53am
  - doggone7
    
    You didn’t know the money for the drug rehab thing involving the Mob came from the Proceeds of Crime Fund?
    
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    August 24, 2021 5:44pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Under what authority?
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Shutting down Parliament means not having to answer call son her lies, therefore continuing control
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August 24, 2021 8:13am
- cmm
  
  She wasn’t answering them anyway.
  
  All she ever has to do is “address” the issue, then Mallard steps in. No answer required.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:06am
JibberJabber

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.” — Albert Camus
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August 24, 2021 8:15am
- krazykiwi
  
  “The only means to fight the plague is honesty”> — Albert Camus
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:08am
- Vory v zakone
  
  And the Nazis had a
  phrase which
  covered all abuses
  by the State:
  “Für Ihre Sicherheit”
  
  “It’s for your safety”
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:19am
  - kowtow
    
    Much older.
    
    Salus populi maxima lex est, or some such.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:49am
  - Joe Kerr
    
    At least the National Socialists created an economic miracle. We are collectively under house arrest by the former president of the International Union of Socialist Youth while she creates her economic disaster.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:14am
  - Ruahine
    
    Vory. Remember this one?
    
    IT IS THE WILL OF THE FUEHRER
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:36am
  - Bluegrass
    
    Wir haben Sicherheit durch zumachen.
    
    [We have security through closing. Mod.]
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:19pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      Yes, sorry Mod, forgot to translate it – we have safety through close-out.
      
      German lends itself more so than English to describe these things, for some reason…
      
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      August 24, 2021 3:05pm
I remember when

Hands up everyone who has been following Billy Te Kahika for the “Truth” about vaccination and covid.
Hell, that many.
Didn’t realise it was that bad.
If I was Jacinda I would employ someone on the state payroll to ensure such stories are countered.
Or, on the other hand, I could make sure the education system taught everyone to weigh up and evaluate information for themselves.
But wait, what about MY information.
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August 24, 2021 8:15am
- doggone7
  
  Is the evidence that whenever we were in the formal education system, we learned to weigh up and evaluate information for ourselves?
  
  How come there is the extreme range between conclusions from the same information?
  
  Example: We weigh up and evaluate information. From it some see Trump won the election. Some saw Jan 6 in the Capitol as a tourist stroll, others as a riot and an attempt at insurrection.
  
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  August 24, 2021 5:41pm
  - miltonF
    
    The way I understand it, a lot of people do not evaluate information. They simply do what they are told. Making decisions is hard and you have to bear the consequences of bad decisions. Much easier to follow. That way you can blame everyone else for your failures. These are the authoritarians. Labour/green voters.
    
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    August 24, 2021 7:19pm
Critical Thinker

The War On Covid Should Be Over – We Do NOT Need Lockdowns

Instead of body bags, we now count the number of people who test positive for the virus that causes the disease. The problem is that the count of cases does not measure the actual danger that the virus poses to people. There is a thousand-fold difference in the mortality risk from Covid infection between young and old. Based on WHO data published before the vaccine, the survival rate after infection is 95% for those over 70, while for those under 70, it is 99.95%.

Tracking cases among the vulnerable old is thus a much better marker of progress in the epidemic than cases overall. The success of Sweden in protecting the vulnerable from Covid-related death stems from prioritising its elderly population before its third wave of cases this past spring. With the vulnerable elderly and others with certain co-morbid conditions now protected by the vaccine, high community prevalence of Covid no longer poses the risk of mortality it did in 2020.

In every country where a sufficient proportion of the vulnerable population is vaccinated, mass testing programs are now useless. Yet counting cases is not just useless; it is actively harmful. First, testing is not free. The typical test costs $125, which means the US and UK have together spent in the order of $90 BILLION on Covid testing. Second, mass testing is an insidious form of lockdown by stealth. Though a PCR test for viral fragments may be positive, a healthy person is not infectious and poses no risk of spreading the virus.

Further, the contact tracing system forces into quarantine countless people who come within the vicinity of the non-infectious healthy person who tested positive. The result is that a vast number of healthy adults and children are forced to stay at home and miss out on life, with no infection control benefit whatsoever.

Third, mass testing causes lockdown. When cases go up, the media and politicians push for draconian and ineffective lockdown measures, including closed businesses and schools. Australia and New Zealand are the apotheosis of this policy of institutionalised hypochondria, where governments impose lockdowns whenever even a single case is found. This practice is deeply unethical and will ultimately harm trust in public health.

Learning to live with Covid means continuing research to find better treatments and better vaccines. It means continuing to prioritise the vulnerable and extending this protection around the world.
It means a return of public health to a holistic vision that extends beyond infection control.
The virus now joins 200 other pathogens in regular circulation in human societies.

The war on Covid should be over.

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1480182/covid-war-over-no-more-lockdowns-coronavirus-comment

Hear, hear! ? ?
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August 24, 2021 8:17am
- Clownworld
  
  Yes well said Critical Thinker. Lockdowns are simply a reactionary tool ( accepted for temporary emergencies) .
  
  19mths plus is not temporary nor an emergency.
  
  Lockdowns are an unproven scientific way to counter a virus. Bit like masks and digital tracking. These tools though are visible and great for virtual signalling as well as dividing people into two groups.
  The compliant willing ready to accept whatever draconian arbitrary rules are placed upon them to “just” do something for “just” a while for a “just” cause. And the hesitant or anti willing minority who don’t trust the inconsistent lying medical politicans and the political experts of black holes etc.
  
  The opposite of lockdown would be ?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:43am
  - PhilBest
    
    Trusting people to not cough in each others faces?
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:57pm
Classic Liberal

American Journal of Therapeutics:

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx

More options than just mRNA vaccine.
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August 24, 2021 8:19am
- Ian Boag
  
  kk pointed us at that one a few days ago. Some very heavy-duty statistics. Lots of rather difficult to follow graphs.
  
  Conclusions along the lines of “there seems to be reasonable evidence that this stuff could be useful”. Not really a ringing endorsement.
  
  As a former stats lecturer I learned that when there is a large effect from something you generally don’t need very fancy stats to see it and there will be some simple tables/graphs that make it clear.
  
  So I dunno ….
  
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  December 24, 2020 9:43am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ll help Ian with the paper’s conclusion:
  
  Conclusion:
  Moderate-certainty evidence finds thatlarge reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
  
  Horses for courses, but I’d take that conclusion as being an endorsement worth following up on. It’s time the vaccine-only narrative was augmented with some established, low cost treatments.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:51am
  - Okahu
    
    Krazy. Are you saying that the docs who are tasked with treating our local covid cases are unaware of the available therapeutics?
    
    Perhaps we need some stories from the front line rather than the endless declarations of best practice by interested but absent civilians.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:43am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Stories, you say?
      
      From the front line, you say?
      
      You’re welcome.
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:45am
      - Okahu
        
        Interesting, to a point. I notice this group, is a self selected covid response coalition of highly credentialed practitioners and researchers. Have their assertions been backed by any major academies or journals? Is there the institutional backing for invermectin yet such as that we see it doled out prophylactically?
        
        Is it true, as some claim, this fabulous resistor and remedy is spurned merely because it is cheap and widespread? Why would we, a country with negligible interest in the welfare of big pharma shareholders care?
        
        I mean if this covid business is so easy to stop…
        
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        August 24, 2021 1:35pm
      - paulscott
        
        absolutely great kk , a treat every time. Personal note . I keep Invermectin here in Bangkok here in case of sudden unexplained malaise or symptoms. I mention this because it increases confidence right in the heart of ‘ infected ‘ territory. It might also be valid / good for prophylactic treatment
        
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        August 24, 2021 1:44pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I would not object to taking the stuff. Cheap and safe and no side effects to speak of.
    
    Lots of people in Brazil took ivermectin/HCQ and died. Ditto for Bolivia and Peru. They have trouble setting up any sort of trial there because every man and his dog takes the stuff. Covid seems to be alive and well in these countries. The story – whatever it is – is not simple.
    
    Go figure.
    
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    August 24, 2021 1:09pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      HCQ has a well known set of contra-indicating conditions. For example it is known that it exacerbates heart arrhythmias.
      
      All the more reason to properly establish whether it is helpful, and if so prescribe it correctly.
      
      So hold proper double blind tests and work it out ! I think from the imperfect but still voluminous evidence we have that they are helpful and should be used (in the proper dosage and safely !) because they are dirt cheap and cannot really hurt. But if proper and non-politically biased trials show a lack of evidence I would be perfectly happy to change my mind, rational thought works like that.
      
      Worth noting that both HCQ and Ivermectin were identified back when the original SARS outbreak occurred, as potentially useful because they had a known anti-viral effect. They were not fully tested at that time because SARS died out too quickly, but they were used with some apparent success.
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:22pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I have explained before, they took it as a treatment not as a prophylactic.
      
      Memory fading eh?
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:24pm
  - Northshoredoc
    
    I had a quick look at that paper kk.
    
    While interesting most of the studies are quite low quality and the data out of the ivermectin study in egypt which a number of people promulgate was found to be fraudulent.
    
    I expect the results of the Principle trial in the UK will provide a more definitive answer on whether there is a apace for Ivermectin in the prophylaxis or treatment of COVID.
    
    https://www.principletrial.org
    
    https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/ivermectin-be-investigated-adults-aged-18-possible-treatment-covid-19-principle
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:00pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    If my next tour is too India ? Still to be confirmed but Invermectin is part of our companies requirement and too be kept onboard.
    Thanks for keeping up with all latest developments as it aligns with International “Best practice” as far as I can see.
    Thanks for your informative posts mate.
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:53pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  VIDEO: Proof That Ivermectin Helps Cure Covid-19
  
  Dr. Tess Lawrie is a world-class researcher and consultant to the World Health Organisation. Her biggest clients happen to be those who are involved in the suppression of repurposed drugs. She has decided to speak out in protest against the current medical establishment at considerable personal risk.
  
  She co-founded the BiRD Group; an international consortium of experts dedicated to the transparent and accurate scientific research of Ivermectin, with particular emphasis on the treatment and prevention of Covid-19.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EEDJuQNrI
  ☝️?
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:17pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Just to note, that if the tests finally do show that Ivermectin for example is a valuable and effective treatment, it would be proper to investigate and charge with conspiracy to kill those who so vociferously oppose it on specious and political grounds.
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:23pm
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Agreed. And the unarguable evidence that Ivermectin is an incredibly effective tool for saving lives from Covid-19 has been overwhelming for months now https://c19ivermectin.com/
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:43pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I believe it has been opposed because a key requirement for EUA is that there be no known alternative treatment. Getting Pfizer, Moderna et al into the arms of frightened people would be constrained a genuine alternative treatment existed. Just looking at how forcefully WHO and CDC opposed ivermectin should have been a clue.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:07pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Good vid. The most interesting thing to me is that it’s been up for 9 days and Youtube hasn’t [yet] ripped it down and/or deleted the publisher’s account.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:13pm
MrTips

It’s getting to the point where dairies and other FMCG operators need security. A givealittle or gofundme should be able to help support this possibly? This is an appalling growing problem and it will require community, not police, solutions. The police want to deal with it, but are simply too busy.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126152141/covid19-dairies-across-the-country-targeted-by-criminals-during-lockdown
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August 24, 2021 8:20am
rouppe

Another cutting piece on Ardern, pointing out how she attempts to manufacture her own deification.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/graham-adams-is-jacinda-ardern-the-messiah-or-just-a-very-crafty-politician/OX6JWIDJE2TA2RSCXVGMJVH77Q/

He did fail to mention how Little tried the same thing. Remember that photo of him when he was leader with his head framed as if by a halo?
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August 24, 2021 8:20am
fightingtemeraire

The US Press is turning on Dopey Joe. How long before ours turn on Queen Canute
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August 24, 2021 8:22am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  A long time while they are on the payroll. Incidentally, the Herald’s parent company just reported a big profit increase, so why do they need our help?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:15am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I wonder if the NZME Aussie owners have updated their editorial policy and are now permitting desenting JA articles. Their share of $55M being banked.
    
    They will be seeing the popularity of anti-JA articles better than any poll could.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:36am
Yvette

Perspective

“Even through your hardest days, remember we are all made of stardust” – Carl Sagan

Everything we are, everything in the universe, and Earth originated from stardust – most of the material of which we are composed came from stars and supernova that have exploded and scattered eons ago, about 4.5 billion years back – so a little before Jacinda was even born.

“Fairy dust” may be something a little different …
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August 24, 2021 8:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
  
  Isiah 47:1
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:13am
- rangitoto
  
  I would like to point out that the “stardust” is actually nuclear waste from thermonuclear reactions in stars, supernovae and neutron star collisions.
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:15am
  - Master Mariner
    
    My limited understanding is everything is made from Carbon.
    
    So from a Green perspective , Once we eliminate CO2 from Earth we have to move on to the universe to rid it of Carbon//
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:11pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No, everything isn’t made from Carbon ….but everything organic (as in living or once lived) contains Carbon.
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:45pm
lifesgood

So some dude from Devonport, riddled with covid, goes to Coromandel and spends the whole weekend going in and out of crowded pubs and cafes and yet NOT ONE person in Coromandel has been infected. Is this virus really that contagious? You’ve got to wonder.
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August 24, 2021 8:27am
- Tall Man
  
  “riddled with covid” ……
  
  How do you know that? “Cases” are people who are unwell, positives, along with the false ones, are not.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:07am
  - lifesgood
    
    Well then why did they make such a big deal about it? And you are either infectious or you’re not.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:43am
    - Tall Man
      
      Fear, fuck all else going for her, take your pick.
      
      My GP is a mate from way back and he carries the covid fear despite most of his clients/patients not even bothering to appear for their shots.
      
      Truth is not required here, ask the msm.
      
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      August 24, 2021 7:08pm
- Opie
  
  The fact they arent explaining chains of transmission either has me wondering.
  
  Usually they will say a case is a family member etc but not once this time have they said that or that someone’s only link was being in a place of interest. They just say there are more cases.
  
  The definition of Community transmission was originally cases that couldn’t be traced back to a lead case. Do we even have this now, therefore justifying level 4 as per their brochure? I dont think so.
  
  Yet they want us to beleive this all started by someone walking past an asymptomatic person in an atrium, they too were asymptomatic but then passed it on to the 58 year old (who was of course unvaccinated) who then went out and about without passing it on. Yet we have 100 cases.
  Where did they all catch it?
  Do they have symptoms?
  Were they vaccinated?
  
  Give us some real information instead of the fear narrative.
  
  Yesterday i saw kids about 10 years old out on scooters wearing masks and looking terrified.
  
  To have caused your citizens to feel like this is truly a disgrace.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The numbers are likely statistical artifacts/outliers resulting from massive short term c19 testing (or variant).
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:02am
  - rangitoto
    
    The weird thing is why would they put a vaccination center in the atrium of an MIQ hotel? Are they stark raving mad.
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:21am
    - mara
      
      Perhaps they didn’t know about DELTA DEATH BREATH then. We all know now that we are all doomed. Doomed I tell you DOOMED!
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:23pm
- DeepBlue
  
  There is an excellent article explaining this on Stuff today. Essentially 3 things matter. The R, K and Serial number. Essentially most people are low/nil transmitters, we got lucky previously, but some people make up for it.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:40am
- amospicton
  
  Exactly but apparently someone walked through an atrium, separated by a screen and somehow got infected. The real story must be politically unacceptable for them to be peddling this nonsense.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:55am
Benedict Yu

Good to know the Maori Party still thinks a vaccine with 60 percent effectiveness can get us to herd immunity. I guess she didn’t study maths at school either.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/opening-up-should-nz-break-with-australia

“Te Pāti Māori supports an elimination strategy.

“Of course we do,” co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer says, while noting, historically, Māori have been severely impacted by pandemics, pointing to Spanish flu as an example. “Any elimination strategy must include Māori to establish our Covid response and to support the efforts of this nation.”

Ngarewa-Packer says the country should re-open “when we can guarantee our whakapapa [genealogies] is protected”, which requires herd immunity.”
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August 24, 2021 8:28am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I am sure she is smart enough, the racist fools who vote for her not so much.
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:30am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Is Herd immunity defined as the new WHO version?
  Previous infection has been removed, can only be achieved by vaccination.
  Wiki definition
  Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections
  What is the current NZ definition?
  Vax vax vax?
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:38am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I have told you this before – the definition of “herd immunity” is not up for debate.
    
    Stick to the main issue – there is no herd immunity possible for COVID, from natural immunity or vaccines. Never happening unless we get new vaccines.
    
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    August 24, 2021 8:59am
    - Tall Man
      
      “New Vaccines”.
      
      Definitely, like the ones that we have for the common cold ….. Really really good ones …..
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:06am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        To clarify I am not saying we WILL get new vaccines that are highly effective. I don’t know.
        
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        August 24, 2021 9:19am
      - Adroit
        
        We do actually have very good influenza vaccines – that’s why they give them at the start of the flu season. The problem isn’t the vaccine, but the nature of influenza in that it is able to mutate quite quickly, so your immune system, despite having memory cells, doesn’t produce antibodies as as your immune system can’t recognise the influenza.
        
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        August 24, 2021 9:53am
      - Tall Man
        
        I know Benedict, I just couldn’t resist stirring the pot 😉
        
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        August 24, 2021 10:46am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Interestingly enough I think it would have been possible to develop and distribute a vaccine for the BCV that causes around 20-25% of colds, but there’s no economic case to do so.
        
        It would be very expensive to develop, and even if it was an excellent vaccine, who would pay much to get a vaccine that could only promise to eliminate 25% of colds, given that colds only very very rarely cause a serious illness.
        
        The BCV responsible for colds is probably considerably less variable than Covid is as it has been coexisting with humans for far longer and has probably much closer to its evolutionary best status.
        
        The other viruses responsible for colds, Rhino and Adeno viruses are far more variable and not very suitable for vaccine targeting.
        
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        August 24, 2021 11:55am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Just asking what the actual definition is in NZ at this present moment, I want to know if the government has changed its mindset, I clearly know your thoughts, I am asking what are the governments thoughts and directions.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:07am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There is no “mindset”. There has not been any change in the meaning of herd immunity. You are chasing a ghost.
        
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        August 24, 2021 9:21am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Benedict I am not a gambling man but I have the two definitions from WHO and chasing the current definitions in Australia through FOI, they are very slow to divulge their future directions.
        I wish i was chasing ghosts, this move will create a shot load of ghosts.
        
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        August 24, 2021 10:00am
    - cmm
      
      “Never happening unless we get new vaccines.”
      
      More likely never happening unless we get a new kind of virus.
      
      It is not apparent that herd immunity is possible against a virus like this.
      
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      August 24, 2021 9:09am
    - Sacha
      
      “there is no herd immunity possible for COVID, from natural immunity or vaccines. ”
      But individuals can develop their own immunity (and a lot of people make up a herd, no?). If not, why have I (for example) never suffered from true influenza in my whole 85 years while others around me have? Bad colds in the early years, certainly, but never the debilitating aches of a body trying to defend itself –
      Are you REALLY saying that the human body is not capable of defeating the COVID? Ever? That the human race has reached the end of its ability to survive and mount a defence against the enemy?
      A couple of weeks ago, I got a ‘cold’: runny nose, runny eyes, sneezing. It was all gone in about 5 days without any treatment apart from staying out of the rough and windy weather – a bit too easy to be a sub-clinical covid attack I suspect, but –
      Oh, said my neighbour, the pine pollen has been flying this week, I’ve been sneezing too.
      
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      August 24, 2021 10:47am
      - cmm
        
        No, that is not what herd immunity means.
        
        Herd immunity means that there are so many immune people that the virus can’t get a toe hold and thus the people without immunity are unlikely to be infected.
        
        Most people who get infected by CV19 do not develop serious symptoms. Same with cold and flu too.
        
        Most times you get infected with a cold virus you likely do not develop any symptoms.
        
        You probably have been infected by flu a few times in your life without it actually developing into something serious and not even realising it.
        
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        August 24, 2021 11:29am
    - paulscott
      
      [Deleted – posts which simply abuse others not welcome here. Mod.]
      
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      August 24, 2021 1:52pm
- cmm
  
  I’m sure Pakeha maths doesn’t apply to Maori.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:20am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Can herd immunity to rapidly mutating viruses even be achieved?
  
  Immunity is to a specific strain of virus. If a new strain comes along, that old immunity may not be effective, and the body will have to come up with new antibodies.
  
  Same with vaccinations (which trigger the body to produce antibodies).
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Truly a Tea Party.
  Let those who stick their heads in bucket a take their political jabs on their rear.
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:05am
JibberJabber

Imagine living in a time where satire has become indistinguishable from reality…
https://babylonbee.com/news/liberals-clarify-they-only-want-black-voices-heard-when-theyre-saying-liberal-things

liberals from around the country clarified that they only want black voices to be heard when those voices are saying liberal-approved things.
The offended white progressives asked black comedian Dave Chappelle to “keep it down” and “maybe not talk so much” after his comments made them feel uncomfortable, sources confirmed Thursday.

Thomas Sowell

“I cannot understand people who say that minorities should be represented everywhere and yet are upset when there are blacks represented in the conservative movement.”
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August 24, 2021 8:29am
- PhilBest
  
  Sowell has said so many simply great quotes, that a book of them would be one of the best educations in political realities that anyone could get. When you read his actual books, there are so many great quotable quotes in every chapter, it is impossible to contain them all in your mind
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:01pm
- Ed Snack
  
  and Larry Elder, a black republican running in the California recall election has been labelled by the LA Times as “The Black face of White supremacy”.
  
  Democrats gonna racist, that’s what they ARE.
  
  And as a side note, Elder is now being investigated by California (Democrat run) election officials in relation to declarations about his funding declarations. He must be showing unexpected strength in the Democrats internal polling to warrant an investigation, they wouldn’t start a fake investigation if he wasn’t close.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:28pm
  - Nickc2
    
    GO LARRY!!!
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:13pm
Greg Ettridge

A classic fear and control move from the Dan Andrews book of control, she has months to catch up. Parliament in Victoria is a distant memory except the upper house where they don’t have majority.
Next move is to remove identification on police.
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August 24, 2021 8:30am
- krazykiwi
  
  Read this: Australia is going full Fascist …but resistance is growing. Quite a summary of the dismantling of democracy across the ditch.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:11am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    I disagree they have always been worst than fascist.
    
    Rubber Bullets and Tear Gas
    
    But the Hospitals do not still know
    who in their staff are vaccinated
    
    All going to plan
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    An article out of the Guardian? Come on KK, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel of fake and biased news there.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:03am
    - krazykiwi
      
      off-guardian.org
      
      A blog originally established to fisk The Guardian’s near-continuous nonsense
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:48am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    10,000 cancellation of jabs a day in Victoria, the message is starting to get through to the sheep.
    Just wait a few months to let the dust settle.
    
    the Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/23/victoria-covid-update-10000-people-cancelling-vaccine-appointments-daily-as-state-records-71-cases?fbclid=IwAR0kkc3nuNOw2VQ50QY4tOfGmoMgSaSTXHeaAHHwcp-k9BX5QP6FUQrEjTc)
    
    Victoria Covid update: 10,000 people cancelling vaccine appointments daily as state records 71 cases
    Daniel Andrews urges Victorians to show up for AstraZeneca bookings and not wait for Pfizer stock.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:04am
  - paulscott
    
    KK [9.11 ] Economic collapse, the Tourist portion. Before this I had a 6 month road trip planned in the East coast.
    Income from one Tourist me = $25,000. One million locked out Tourists = $25 billion.
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:03pm
G152

Is she actually stating that she wants ‘herd immunity’ for Maori. ?????
Really ???????
Is there not a better turn of phrase that explains without demeaning
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August 24, 2021 8:33am
- Inandout
  
  G152, should the term have been ‘iwi immunity’?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:07am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Why not run the phrase “herd immunity” through the Google Te Reo generator to synthesize the phrase “kahurutanga kau”?
  That will kill three birds will one stone:
  – Not demean people who self-identify as Maori
  – Confuse the population
  – Support the current renaming trend
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:58am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Like it
  hit them with their own phraseology, nonsense.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:04am
  - paulscott
    
    RW 10.04 ] Vaclav Havel in his essay ” the power of the powerless”‘ recommended just this. You take the public lie and worship it in mock belief. >. There is nothing to worry about we know that Ardern can “eliminate” the virus . Don’t be silly Ardern has already told us that she is the sole source of truth. Ardern says that a NZ Laboratory can sequence and recognise Delta overnight,so then that is so. It must be so. The inventor of the PCR test must have been mistaken , the source of truth tells us it is a diagnostic tool, so it is so,…
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:10pm
BananaLlama

Just received an email saying my scheduled vaccination appointment was cancelled. Jacinda and the Labour government are bald faced lying when they say that vaccinations are no longer being cancelled.
How long will our cud lipped population continue to lap up these lies.
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August 24, 2021 8:43am
- Stu2
  
  Mine wasn’t
  
  But it was restructured to achieve social distancing during the post-jab wait, which reduced the number of people they could deal with per hour. I was contacted to adjust my arrival time, I assume some people were moved to another day
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:20am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Or copy Nelson Marlborough. They just moved the vax centres to large sports stadia (unused in lockdown) … Kept appointments, in fact released many morethis week, with more space to spread out.
    
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    August 24, 2021 9:44am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    mmmm…..Didn’t think of opening a temporary pop up store to cater for the social distance problem huh?
    They don’t even know they are in a box, so cannot think outside of it.
    Narrow minded and arrogant.
    Only one way…theirs.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:02am
    - Stu2
      
      It was at my GP, they dropped from 10 or so waiting post-jab to 5. They did better than I thought was possible in their space, and have been great to deal with
      
      With the drop from waiting 20 minutes to 15, they could do 15-20 an hour now
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:14am
- Bill Felt
  
  Mine was too.
  Also my niece received a txt confirming that John had a negative test result. Of course my niece’s name is not John, neither is she a male.
  
  John, if you are out there, you have tested negative!
  My niece still await her result!
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:02am
- BananaLlama
  
  Alright update.
  
  Checked manage my appointments and found that the booking for my first vaccine is still scheduled in the system for today. I rang up the help line and they confirmed that it is still in their system and that the vaccination center is open.
  So I will turn up at the prescribed time and see what happens.
  
  All of this despite receiving emails and text messages saying my booking was cancelled and the center was closed/reduced capacity.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:03am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Turned up at the Vaxx center and it was DEAD no one in line only operating at less than 10% capacity.
    Staff were extremely helpful and extremely professional they really did an excellent job. So despite every effort to the contrary i have now received my first vaccination shot and am still alive and kicking.
    There were no hidden microchips, hair not turning pink and no desire to vote for Labour although more of a desire to see excellent staff paid their worth.
    
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    August 24, 2021 6:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Headline on Stuff site…”Shop less often, plan better, Supermarkets say.”

As if it’s the Public’s fault that they are limited to shopping from a few major outlets.

Didn’t the powers-to-be realise that Auckland supermarkets were always going to be amongst the earliest sites of community transmission?
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August 24, 2021 8:53am
- westernScientest
  
  have there been any cases contracted at a supermarket? We get these 100s of locations of interest, but only get where transmission likely occurred occasionally.
  
  Also, better check the spot price on toilet paper, maybe its time to start selling down
  
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  August 24, 2021 8:57am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Yes, Maggie, I saw that and wondered.
  My mate who owned supermarkets said the best shoppers were men without a shopping list. Their impulse buying was very profitable especially compared with women with a shopping list cherry picking all the loss leader specials.
  It seems strange to me that a supermarket would be promoting planned purchasing by their clients. But this is 2021 and there are so many strange things happening that leave me perplexed.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:46am
Captain Mainwaring

Hosking ripped Chippie a new one this morning and the bastard deserved every bit of it.
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August 24, 2021 8:59am
- RW Capitalist
  
  I never took Mike for a bully, beating up on the cognitively and intellectually disabled.
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:58am
- Tricati
  
  Wasn’t it awesome – Feel Hosking was expressing the frustration of many in the country and good on him. Hipkins seems to be swaying on the ‘elimination’ strategy.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:31am
RockyJ

“Know us by our deeds” sayeth our dear leader, Jacinda, on the cover of Time magazine. Should really have been “know us by the company we keep”. The list of the Jacinda fan club grows. These now include:
• Karel Sroubek (drug smuggler)
•.Harry Tam (Mongrel Mob drug seller)
• Latest fan: Taliban (drug grower).
Fascinating to learn who will be next.
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August 24, 2021 9:00am
- Bill Felt
  
  Clarke?
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:03am
Aquataur

[Deleted – you posted the same comment yesterday. Mod]
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August 24, 2021 9:01am
Inandout

NZME have made a $5 million profit. Do we now expect some of that money be paid back to the government to cover the $110 million so generously donated by Jacinda?
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August 24, 2021 9:06am
- DeepBlue
  
  Nah, she was buying advertorials and editorial direction, and NZME delivered.
  
  All spent now though, hence change in tone. ‘Is JA the messiah?’
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:47am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    ‘Is JA the messiah?’
    Definitely not.
    There is only one Messiah as revealed by God in sending His Only Son to be born on earth for that purpose.
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:12am
    - RalphT
      
      Agreed….she’s just a very naughty girl.
      
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      August 24, 2021 11:34am
RoboRob

Yet more one rule for us and one for gangs.

In CHCH over the weekend there was a gang brawl outside burger king. Police doing nothing, not even a charge for breaking lockdown rules. The reason ‘No one involved wanted to press charges’. Really, WTF. So I can get in a fight with a mate, smash BK windows and because me a my mate decide to not push charges the police will just ignore the whole thing? I gaurantee as a non gang member, white man, that I would be charged.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/gang-brawl-erupts-outside-christchurch-burger-king-during-alert-level-4/ar-AANCwRA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Then we have a gang attack in AK. Van with 5 male gang members (and then a Mercedes) , obviously not self isolating, attack a couple. The police are treating it as a traffice violation and not reporting that a gang was involved !

The police said….

“The victims in the incident reported that they had been involved in a traffic incident and the occupants of the other vehicle, which was described as a group of males, have then become very aggressive to the victims even punching their windscreen at one point.

“Unfortunately as there were no registration numbers available police were not able to immediately attend and locate the men but we will be looking to see if there are any other lines of enquiry.”

Note the police language, no mention of gang involvement and they didn’t even bother to attend the scene!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/group-pulling-gang-signs-allegedly-crashes-into-auckland-couple-s-car-after-attempting-to-smash-car-windows-rip-doors-open/ar-AANBYWu?ocid=msedgntp

The fact the police (and government) appear to have decided to just let gangs do whatever they want should be a concern to all.
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August 24, 2021 9:08am
- cmm
  
  Policing by consent is a real thing.
  
  If a few thousand people decide they will not comply then there is not much the state can do. How are they going to lock up 1000+ people?
  
  There are approx 10,000 gang members in NZ (and growing – fast) of which approx 7000 are on the streets and 3000 in prison.
  
  Those 7,000 can do what the hell they want – so long as they don’t push it too far.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:20am
  - Sacha
    
    Gang Justice. If they keep it among themselves there’s no need for outside interference.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:54am
- Prince
  
  On the other hand, some jetboaters in Wanaka are to appear in court…
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/otago/126157832/covid19-seven-men-charged-over-wnaka-jet-boating-during-lockdown
  Some are more equal than others…
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:49am
ABS4EVA

Be Kind to one anothers

and Trust Jaicnda with your Money

She and the Mongrel know best
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August 24, 2021 9:13am
- Nickc2
  
  and the Taliban.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:07am
Durden

This government is dumb and arrogant.

The Government outright rejected Tony Clifford’s “accreditation plan” — a process WoF for operating factories under Level 4, to keep businesses running in future Level 4 lockdowns.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/business-lockdown-plan-fell-on-deaf-ears

I doubt if having a public walkway through an air-conditioned (aerosol circulating) atrium of a MIQ hotel, only separating airborne virus shedding returnees, from passers by from the community, just by a non sealing 2m perspex sheet, would pass such a WoF test

The government knows best eh ? I though I even caught signs of incredulity / sarcasm on the pink haired [deleted] one’s face when commenting about this.
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August 24, 2021 9:14am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Business BAD
  White People BAD
  Be kind to one another
  and
  GIVE Money to the Mongrel Mob
  
  Plant 2 trees for climate change and
  Build 2 houses for the housing Crisis
  
  import chinese trains
  and sign Belt and roads
  
  Dress up
  Say Magic words in another language and say
  
  SORRY then
  
  Suspend Parliament
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:31am
- kowtow
  
  If a member of the public breaches the rules they’re prosecuted .
  
  If the govt run not fit for purpose mismanaged non isolated non quarantineed facilidies , what happens to them?
  
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  August 24, 2021 9:34am
Stu2

Interesting, well written article on Stuff explaining the variables Covid modellers use

We know about R0, but there is also Re, K and Serial Interval

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126156922/explaining-the-variable-that-has-a-covid19-modeller-most-worried
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August 24, 2021 9:25am
- westernScientest
  
  If you are interested in this sort of thing, govt hasnt updated in a long time, so I assume they are still using the same model, it is here:
  http://covidsim.eu/
  you can change the variables etc and get more of a feel for how they work. Yes this is literally the model they used in the last outbreak, and probably is still for this one. When they talk about modellers, they are not talking about some new exciting work in experimental math, they are talking about some special people putting numbers into a website, which you can do to! I know I take the p*ss a bit and say they are using a random number generator, but covidSim is a pretty robust SEIR model which are a set long standing epidemic modelling equations used for decades in anything and everything.
  
  Full equations are here:
  http://covidsim.eu/assets/Model_description_Version_2.0.pdf
  
  The explanation from the likes of Baker on how they parameterised it are here:
  https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/report_for_moh_-_age-specific_impacts_covid-19_pandemic_final.pdf
  
  and a few other reports can be found here:
  https://www.health.govt.nz/publication/covid-19-modelling-and-other-commissioned-reports
  
  Yeah it is all like a year + out of date, either nothing has changed, or the most open and transparent government ever is being open and transparent.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:10am
- cmm
  
  The biggest problem with these is that these are not really properties of the virus. They are “fudge factors” to make the numbers fit to the model.
  
  R0 and Re are really the same fudge factor (R) but in different circumstances: R0 is an unconstrained reproduction number, while Re is the actual number as encountered in the environment.
  
  R0 of course does not exist in the real world because everything is surrounded by a constraining environment.. Only various Re’s exist and they will be different for every situation out there.
  
  For example, an Re for a group of 80 year olds on a bus with the windows closed is different than the Re of people walking in a restaurant or shopping mall etc. ANd it differs according to temperature, humidity, air flow, etc etc etc.
  
  It is meaningless to try simplify these to an Re for a nation or anything like that.
  
  Unfortunately the real world is far more complex than the modelling can cope with. Hence we need to dumb things down to be able to make a model. Hence modelling loses its effectiveness as a tool and we get all sorts of bullshit.
  
  The tiniest tweak of a factor (eg. using Re of 5 instead of 5.3) can completely change the outcome in exponential equations of the form used in virus spread modelling.
  
  For example the same people that said 80,000 would die in 2020 then said it was unlikely 100 would be infected in this outbreak and are now saying 1000 a few days later. Clearly the Re etc are changing a lot to try to make these fit.
  
  It’s all just bullshit.
  
  Now don’t get me wrong: mathematical modelling can be a very useful tool for many applications. I do a lot of mathematical modelling. But, like any tool it has its limits and using it outside those limits is useless and provides disinformation.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:40am
  - westernScientest
    
    Garbage in Garbage out
    
    All models are wrong, but some models are useful.
    
    I do tend to agree, SEIR models work well in simple populations, like insects or whatever where their behaviour is driven by some fairly simple rules. Not so well in humans, especially when there is so much propaganda around to make them behave in erratic and unpredictable ways.
    
    I am a bit sad, at university Mike Plank was one of two of my lecturers who got me into mathematical modelling of biological systems, I am still in the general area today (not covid). He is a nice guy, really smart, and I wonder if he has fallen into the same trap as Hendy, or if it is just that we get the sound bites and no one listens to the cavorts which he most definitely knows about. He was a good lecturer, and could make quite complex things understandable intuitively and walk though the math to make sure you understood what each operation was doing and how it effected the system as a whole.
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:06am
    - cmm
      
      It is one of the problems with academics that they are often disconnected from reality. It is especially so in the field of mathematical modelling because the models create a fake reality.
      
      They get so absorbed in their models that, for them, the models are more real than anything else.
      
      This is why you will so often see modellers getting so hung up on R numbers etc.
      
      Engineers/scientists that use models as tools in the real world see things differently: when a model and reality disagree, reality is always right and the model is always wrong.
      
      As you say, all models are wrong, but a sufficiently right model can be useful – to some extent.
      
      Some of our models are incredibly good. For example, out gravitational and planetary etc models allow us to predict phases of the moon a hundred years from now. Biological models are quite a different matter.
      
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      August 24, 2021 2:11pm
  - Stu2
    
    Thanks
    
    The one that caught my interest was the Serial Interval, which reduces how viable contact tracing is.
    
    Victoria has an even more extreme lockdown than us, but they keep getting 50 or 60 case days. Might be a struggle to get Auckland to zero
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Never trust an epidemic modeller with predictions.
  Engineering modellers may measure discernible physical features like rates of water flow where they need to be cautious to keep within boundaries.
  Climate modellers are a different breed. Not being accountable as engineers data can be provided itself from interpolation or substituted models. The outputs are required to meet expectations. Stock market modellers are frequently trying to sucker a “client” into emptying their bank accounts into their coffers.
  
  Our epidemiologist modellers would do better with plasticine like they once played with. Many are fascinated by numbers and seeing what happens when a parameter is changed. They have none to believe in but themselves. They keep to their warrens and the rest of the world is irrelevant. They do not take responsibility for their predictions and they are largely unaffected by their reports. Their pay grade typically isolates them most concerns. But are their reports sensible? Their tools appear crude so their opinions are crude likewise. Their predictions to date reflect that. Amateur wannabe statisticians and social controllers.
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:37am
Rusty

Didn’t earlier this year an official from the WHO state lock downs don’t work and cause more harm than good particularly among the poor and vulnerable?

Yet Aust and NZ continue this obsession with lock downs while the rest of the world are getting on with their lives and living with covid.

Lock downs won’t eliminate or eradicate covid and like any virus/disease some will get it and some will die but the majority wont — doesn’t cancer operate like that?

It has to be pride or some other agenda our PM is perusing by continuing these unnecessary lock downs.
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August 24, 2021 9:26am
- Wired-one
  
  In fairness Australia are having less restrictive lockdowns to flatten the curve and suppress Covid-19 as much as possible until their vaccine rollout picks up the pace, they’re not trying to eliminate it. Scott Morrison has also stated a plan going forward to open up. If I remember right it is roughly 80% of aussies vaccinated before they go back to normal. They won’t be in continuous lockdown threat for the next few years like we will be. Scomo even had the fortitude to apologize for their vaccine rollout, which is considerably ahead of ours…
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:29pm
JibberJabber

The Left,
2019… “We f#@*ing hate Nazis”!
2021… “Show us your f#@*ing Papers”!
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August 24, 2021 9:26am
JibberJabber

OMG! ? the Smurf variant ?
https://twitter.com/Alpha_Mind7/status/1429798912202665988

*Dalek voice* “Lockdown, lockdown, lockdown…”
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August 24, 2021 9:31am
Isobar

I have previously flagged how National missed a big trick at their conference not releasing any policy.

One such policy they could have released is how a National led government would react to a Delta outbreak should it happen, which everyone agreed was an almost certainty. That would have given us all (and most importantly potential swing voters) something to compare and contrast to when the actual delta outbreak happened and the governments response to it when it came to happen.

Unfortunately because they didn’t, once again they are sidelined, with the government owning the narrative. National are therefore risking ending up in the same place as last time – looking like their main approach is to oppose most things and make up policy on the hoof. This take worked terribly for them last time and cost them both a leader and a landslide defeat at the election.

I will say though, Chris Bishop (who was most peoples villain on here a couple of weeks ago) has been doing an excellent job. But again the problem is, its all reactive – and just gets lost amongst the news of the day.

Why they couldn’t have come out and say all these things a couple of weeks ago when they had the spotlight on them though is turning into a big mistake. Sure no one could have foreseen this specific situation, but you can at least get the big strokes out their about how you would respond and the thinking behind it.

The Nats will continue to struggle to look like a credible govt in waiting if they remain stuck forever in reaction mode. They need to stand for something, be proactive and offer potential voters something different to the government narrative. Especially in times of a national emergency.
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August 24, 2021 9:32am
- tf78
  
  Judith Collins was on with Kerry this morning and spelt out what they would be doing – media don’t report it but they are there.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:20pm
  - Isobar
    
    See previous points:
    
    – Its reactionary and made up on the hoof
    – Because of this it gets lost in the noise
    – They should have taken the initiative when they had it
    
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    August 24, 2021 4:29pm
Maggie Pie

One of the girls from tennis was telling me she read where seven dwarves have complained to the HRC about the name ‘Tall Ferns’.

Six of them weren’t Happy.

😀 😀 😀
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August 24, 2021 10:00am
Ruahine

Here is the News.

It has been reported today that no one in New Zealand has died from the Covid-19 virus in the last 24 hours.
There have been reports however that the are people in New Zealand who have died from Cardiac arrest, Cancers, and other related problems.
When the Prime Minister was asked about this
appalling situation she said that she was ‘surprised’.
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August 24, 2021 10:09am
- kowtow
  
  Don’t forget the almost media blackout on RSV deaths and how hospitals were overwhelmed.
  
  This nearly 18 months into a wuflu crisis that you’d think would have the gubmint geared up to deal with all manner of hospital emergencies. ( you know in case the dreaded delta breached the hard and early)
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:21pm
- doggone7
  
  Maybe all print media could have a big list everyday on their front pages of how many have died of what.
  
  The TV channels with their weather segment at the end of their news could have a “Deaths Report.’
  The TAB could even run a book on how many there’d be for whatever. All proceeds to Mental Health causes of course.
  It’d be more popular than Lotto.
  
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  August 24, 2021 5:28pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING TWITTER

And on a serious note…I see that the Biden Administration were charging American citizens stranded behind enemy lines, up to $2000 for an evacuation flight out of Kabul.
This after abandoning Bagram Airfield for no reason.
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August 24, 2021 10:19am
- Nickc2
  
  Has Hunter Biden started an evacuation service?
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:24am
- MCos
  
  So . . . . What’s your point?
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:42am
  - MCos
    
    I’m no expert on Afghanistan, but I would have thought leave your departure from that country to the last minute is asking for trouble.
    I doubt if they’re tourists so they can probably claim the money back from their employers.
    
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    August 24, 2021 10:50am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I was going to respond to your question Cossie…..
    but then I saw you already did.
    
    LOL!!
    
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    August 24, 2021 11:50am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, it is now accepted that the whole withdrawal plan was a monumental botchup by Biden’s inner circle. This is how deep TDS runs in the WH, put everone in danger, leave billions of dollars of equipment behind for the enemy, JUST to scuttle Trump’s plan. If there is a solid reason for Impeachment of Biden this is surely it. It is criminal.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/tired-of-being-president-biden-hangs-trump-won-sign-out-of-white-house-window
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August 24, 2021 10:25am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/joe-bidens-approval-numbers-so-low-even-dominion-computers-regret-having-voted-for-him
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August 24, 2021 10:30am
- Okahu
  
  Steve old pal. Did you know some people reckon Biden only won because he cheated?
  Now you and I know someone as sleepy as Biden couldn’t pull the wool over a MAGA man such as yourself. But that’s what some reckon.
  
  It’s like saying “man he’s slow! But he’s faster than us!” How does that work?
  
  True story. Strange but true. Might even be true!
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:09am
  - Inandout
    
    The Bee is satire, that refreshing stab at the lot in charge. The one thing dictatorial regimes fear is biting humour because it spreads.
    
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    August 24, 2021 12:17pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Cheated?
    If you call cheating illegally changing the Rules so Voting infractions are harder to pick up.
    https://www.deseret.com/2021/8/20/22633833/new-rnc-report-blames-democrats-election-fraud-2020-trump-gop-republicans
    What we saw this past election — states undoing important safeguards, bypassing the proper legislative processes, and changing election laws in the eleventh hour — was deeply troubling and brought chaos and uncertainty to our sacred democratic processes,”
    The report outlines several pandemic-induced changes in electoral processes throughout the country in 2020, including expanded vote-by-mail, and suggests that “laws were discarded” in implementing such practices. “Republicans know the administration of the 2020 election had serious problems and failures regardless of what the press, Democrats, and so-called ‘experts’ say,” the report reads.
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:10pm
thirteenstars

Rebel News report from Avi Yemini interviewing peaceful protestors in Australia. All walks of life represented. Heartfelt stuff.

https://youtu.be/LpCFo43-Gi0?t=53
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August 24, 2021 10:31am
Flash Gordon

This just happened now on Luke Malpass’s latest article on Stuff:
– Several Govt critical threads (including second most popular) were deleted. One of which complained about lack of democracy and freedom under lockdown.
– Stuff allowed this comment:

“”You can call Xi a dictator and whatever you like. The reality is, the citizens of PRC are living normally and happily. Would you suggest another system that can guarantee majority of people living standard as it is now? Also, please look at their COVID control, it is the most sucessful country at controlling the virus considered it is the most populous country in the world. I’m sure the citizens are grateful that they can move around and function normally unlike Europe and America. Same here in NZ we have so much freedom because the virus is controlled which explains Arden’s popularity. ”

I am trying to keep calm, and perhaps both are an error. But this is really beginning to scare me.
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August 24, 2021 10:43am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Don’t waste your time worrying what goes on in that cesspit of insane leftists and woke bedwetters.
  
  “Stuff is a far left extreme publication essentially surviving on being nice to Labour and the Greens in exchange for subsidies.”
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:44pm
Durden

Poor Maori vaccine uptake.
https://twitter.com/jmarshallnz/status/1429369166482399233

They have had all the special treatment they can have. They have been communicated to, funded well, been cajoled and bribed. But they don’t turn up.

Whose fault ? Maybe they need to look within themselves now.

Alternative is to physically round them up and take them to vaccination centres. Or go into homes and vaccinate. The latter approach would be probably cheaper given that Census 2018 says there are only 223,938 Maori households to cover.

This would be the current process of pouring money into a bottomless pit without any guarantee of any result, except more demands to do more, and give more money.

https://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/a-matou-mohiotanga/demographics/maori-families-and-households/online/1
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August 24, 2021 10:45am
- Sede Vacante
  
  “Alternative is to physically round them up and take them to vaccination centres. Or go into homes and vaccinate.”
  
  What an idiotic and troubling thing to say.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:53pm
  - Durden
    
    Sorry you think that way. The alternative is insanity. Keep repeating what does not work.
    
    Otherwise Maori and Pacifica should do something themselves or shut up and stop whinging perpetually.
    
    There is a limit to mollycoddling.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:02pm
Tony

I think it is absolutely appalling how asleep at the wheel the government has been over this Covid situation.

They have had around 200 days to prepare for this inevitable eventuality.

Why weren’t they:

1. Ensuring that vaccines were targeted at cities that have MIQ facilities. These locations are obviously the biggest area of risk.
2. Ensuring that essential workers such as police and nurses are vaccinated across the board.
3. Improving contact tracing systems etc to cope with an anticipated more contagious variant?

It is an absolute travesty that we are in this situation that was totally avoidable. Businesses and jobs will be lost due to the governments utter complacency.
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August 24, 2021 10:50am
- Ruawai
  
  And training students to test and vaccinate.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:23pm
cmm

From what I see on FlightRadar, it seems the USAF use different procedures during day and night ops.

During the day (yesterday), they were flying tankers – I assume filling up fighters – and flying all the transporters along a fixed route with their transponders on.

At the moment they only have transporters in the air which are flying slightly different routes and also flying with their transponders off some of the time. I suppose this is because they find that a better option that trying fighter support operations at night.

Curiously, RAF (XXXXX) is flying with transponders on the whole way.

https://www.flightradar24.com/MOOSE49/28e38136

https://www.flightradar24.com/XXXXXX/28e3762c
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August 24, 2021 10:52am
- BananaLlama
  
  Look for military traffic that do an immediate 180 out over the Indian ocean/Persian gulf, that’s where the carrier group is located.
  
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  August 24, 2021 10:54am
Fletch

Israel still finding better therapeutics. In this case a $15 drug treatment.

Fourteen out of 15 severe COVID-19 patients who were treated in an investigator-initiated interventional open-label clinical study of the drug TriCor (fenofibrate) didn’t require oxygen support within a week of treatment and were released from the hospital, according to the results of a new Hebrew University of Jerusalem study.
Fenofibrate is an FDA-approved oral medication. The results were published on Researchsquare.com and are currently under peer review.

The 15 treated patients all had pneumonia and required oxygen support. They were also older with multiple comorbidities, ranging from diabetes and obesity to high blood pressure.
In addition to standard of care, the patients were given 145 mg/day of fenofibrate for 10 days.
“The results were dramatic,” Nahmias told The Jerusalem Post. “Progressive inflammation markers, which are the hallmark of deteriorative COVID-19, dropped within 48 hours of treatment. Moreover, 14 of the 15 severe patients didn’t require oxygen support within a week of treatment.” The 15th patient was off oxygen within 10 days.

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/15-treatment-gets-covid-patients-off-ventilators-in-under-a-week-study-677479

Are we pinning too much on the vaccine when there are other traditional medicines that can treat patients?
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August 24, 2021 11:14am
Maggy Wassilieff

Newsroom on the Maori child with Pakeha caregivers case…

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/judges-examination-she-was-in-the-box-just-crying

*Trying to explain away interference in the Judicial process?
*Yet another hit job on Judge Callinicos
*or an expose of ill-prepared OT staff?
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August 24, 2021 11:18am
Jack5

The great de-White wash….

The New Zealand soccer team, the All Whites, may ditch that name in the interest of diversity, reports the Guardian.

This is part of a review by the national soccer organisation, New Zealand Football, the British newspaper says.

“As with many other national bodies, New Zealand Football is on a journey around cultural inclusivity and respecting the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi,” NZ Football said in a statement.

The NZ men’s soccer team at the Tokyo games was reported in the sports media as the “Olywhites”.

A sports fan may tell us whether the Olywhites “took the knee”, Black Lives Matter style, as the NZ women’s soccer team, the Football Ferns, did.

Rob Waddell, head honcho of the NZ Olympic Games team, said of the Football Ferns’ action: “ … we are proud of our athletes for making a global stand for greater racial equality.”

If no All Whites, what about All Blacks?

The Guardian reports that the South Island’s Crusaders changed its logo from a sword to a Maori emblem (it looks a bit like a “C”).

It doesn’t note that the Crusaders kept their name despite Woke pressure following the Christchurch mosques massacres. The Crusaders showed their guts in holding fast to their name in the face of pressure from sports media.

Meanwhile, the international Crusaders rugby team has a logo of a rugby player wearing a knight’s helmet and carrying a shield. The international Crusaders are a charity sports group that spans several countries. It raises money to help victims of male cancer (prostate or testicular). The players have either suffered these cancers or have a close family member or friend who has.

Well done, guys. Their web site:

http://www.crusadersrugby.org/
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August 24, 2021 11:20am
- graham
  
  And in related stories.
  
  An English rugby writer says the haka has been ‘objectified and commercially exploited’ by rugby in a column that asks if the All Blacks’ pre-match routine is on borrowed time.
  
  “… no one has ever adequately explained why any country has the right to perform an intimidatory tribal war dance before a rugby match while the opposition has to politely spectate. In terms of social and cultural status, however, surely it is misappropriation 101?
  
  “Rugby’s link to the haka is no more authentic than chalk to cheese or Exeter to the Iroquois. The haka is a tribal war dance originating with the indigenous Maori in New Zealand. Over the course of the 20th Century, it has been piggybacked, objectified and commercially exploited by rugby union; a Maori cultural symbol that has been caricatured and fetishised the world over.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-objectified-and-commercially-exploited-haka-on-borrowed-time-says-english-writer/EDT3Y74DSPN4HLD7UEF7JU5VQQ/
  
  And unfortunately this is paywalled, but Michael Burgess has written an opinion piece that says changing All Whites’ name would be disrespectful and pointless.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/michael-burgess-changing-all-whites-name-would-be-disrespectful-and-pointless/S44KIWO7RO5GYGRKIZGSSH6W6I/
  
  As Charles Richardson wrote in the first piece:
  
  Rightly or wrongly, cancel culture is often met with the question: “Where do you draw the line?”
  
  Where indeed.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:28pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Sooner they get rid of the haka the better IMO. And it is a disgraceful display when dignitaries visit a school to be subjected to shouting, stamping, posturing kids dancing a war dance.
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:15pm
NoFax

The Delta variant started in India. Therefore, the question becomes how did they tackle it there? In the state of Utter Pradesh (250m people) they stopped it in a few weeks. However, we haven’t seen that in our media – you think it must be 1000s dying but it isn’t. Why the media blackout? Here is the answer: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indias-ivermectin-blackout
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August 24, 2021 11:22am
- krazykiwi
  
  From the article, using 5th August data: –
  
  Uttar Pradesh on Ivermectin: Population 240 Million [4.9% fully vaccinated]
  COVID Daily Cases: 26
  COVID Daily Deaths: 3
  
  ..vs..
  
  The United States off Ivermectin: Population 331 Million [50.5% fully vaccinated]
  
  COVID Daily Cases: 127,108
  COVID Daily Deaths: 574
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:56am
  - cmm
    
    To be fair there are many other factors too, but certainly that looks like something worth investigating.
    
    India median age: 28.4 years.
    USA median age: 38.1 years.
    
    On the flip side older Indians have massive Vit D shortages (as to Black Americans).
    
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    August 24, 2021 4:42pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Agreed. This stuff is multivariate. But looking at the delta (tough choice of word these days!) between these mortality counts you’d be a brave betting person to suggest ivermectin played no part.
      
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      August 24, 2021 6:00pm
- rangitoto
  
  According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
  
  The infection rate plummeted rapidly after peaking in the first half of May. Then plateaued for a while at around ten percent of the peak and now seems to be declining again. It’s appears to be a better result than the UK, which has much higher vaccination rates. It is known that most Indian states use ivermectin for treatment.
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:57am
- Okahu
  
  Thank you faxie for your special link. I was particularly impressed at how it didn’t straight away say we were all being conned by a huge conspiracy. An international cone of silence punctuated only by this roar of truthiness.
  
  How it didn’t say we couldn’t talk about something while at the same time writing and publishing an article about that very same thing. (I mean believing both, that would be outright mind buggery).
  
  You see that’s the honesty we need. These are dark times and now the far Q has gone into their own cone of silence (witless protection?), who will shine a light on our truth and tell defecit? Who will offer the take it or leave it truths we desperately need?
  
  So thank you faxie. The truthieness in your offering is, well, whelming! Can you be our near Q? You seem to have your fingers on something and you clearly like to share.
  
  You could be Qfax? Has a ring to it! After a while you could branch out. Qtips! Girls at the tennis club gonna want those! Just saying.
  
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  August 24, 2021 12:21pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Of course Q has gone quiet. It wasn’t needed any more so the CIA shut that unit down.
    
    2 1
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    August 24, 2021 2:32pm
    - Okahu
      
      Love the way you couch Q’s gender! Supawoke! But calling Q a “unit” ? Harsh! Stevie and Faxo don’t want to hear they’ve fallen for a genderless unit!
      
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      August 24, 2021 5:52pm
Okahu

How close are we to the next round of howling? The last time was a little weak but I’m sure we can do better next time.

Here’s a really good idea. Perhaps it could be timed to be on the full moon? That would help the dogs to join in. And we could get a couple of bevies in at the local while we wait for moonrise. Just about guarantee a good howl. Best of all we could just know each month when best to howl.

One last thing. If somebody can give us the time and date, could they also give us a reason. Don’t have to. Howling is fun. Full moon howling! But could help. Maybe.
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August 24, 2021 11:37am
- Yabster
  
  [Deleted – keep it civil please. Mod.]
  
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  August 24, 2021 11:54am
- Tall Man
  
  “That would help the dogs to join in”
  
  Pffttt, we don’t need labour’s support thanks.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:27pm
CAKE FACE1

Just imagine if all the money wasted in NZ on lockdowns et al had been invested in new ICUs et al.

I have the feeling that a massive economic contraction, as well as a health disaster, are imminent.

I suppose when the dust settles, we will need to review the NZ Covid performance overall, in terms of:

(a) Health outcomes
(b) Economic outcomes
(c) Freedom outcomes

My prediction is that overall, the NZ performance addressing Covid will be one the worst in the world.

This gives me no pleasure.

This is not about politics anymore for me.

I’m just hoping in two years time, when we have an election, are economy and society hasn’t been irreparably damaged.

I’m now fearing the worst…
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August 24, 2021 11:47am
MrTips

If what I’m hearing is true, expect L3 and L2 to be modified from last time – justified on the basis of delta “being so different”. In other words, L2 will look closer to L3.

And the enforcement of it will ratchet up as well. It takes time to ~~bully~~ plan the system for this. About a week they reckon….who has a spare week right now…..?
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August 24, 2021 11:48am
westernScientest

Okahu
If you are referring to Groundswell, the current campaign is to Toot your horn every Friday at 1230, where ever you happen to be. The next major protest is some time in November, but details are yet to be released.
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August 24, 2021 11:48am
westernScientest

Anyone know anything about this truckie protest which is apparently happening in Australia and possible here?

I would say not safe for work… but lets just say it has some colourful trucker language in it if you have kids around
https://youtu.be/mBwCgNePwfE
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August 24, 2021 11:53am
- tf78
  
  WS – 31st August Aussie & NZ truckers supposedly blocking main highways in and out of main cities. Just what I picked up on BFD last night. Don’t know for sure but they did recommended stocking your pantry before that.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:29pm
  - westernScientest
    
    maybe ill hold on to the toilet paper a while longer then
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:15pm
  - Nickc2
    
    What Govt is the talking head in the video talking about? If its NZ’s, I go along with it. If it’s Aust’s, I don’t.
    
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    August 24, 2021 3:27pm
dcrane

If I were a reporter in today’s pool, this would be my question:

“Why, after the passage of 18 months, do we not have a plan in place to maintain the operation of Paliament’s functions through at least a representative subset of members?”

[Also wondering why all italics now…)
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August 24, 2021 12:03pm
- sooty
  
  Too hard!
  
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  August 24, 2021 5:56pm
Nickc2

In case you didn’t know:
In 1975, President Ford was left to manage the difficult ending of the Vietnam War. President Ford went to Congress for a relief package to allow American personnel and our allies to evacuate. However, there was ONE US SENATOR who opposed any such support. The result was the embarrassing and hurried evacuation from the roof of the American embassy in Saigon.

This senator reveled in the embarrassment and did everything he could to leverage it politically against Ford. Despite the efforts of this U.S. Senator–President Ford managed to rescue 1,500 South Vietnamese allies prior to the country’s fall. Had President Ford not acted quickly, these people would have been targeted and slaughtered for their support for America. When they arrived in America, President Ford asked Congress for a package to assist these refugees to integrate into American society.

That SAME troublesome SENATOR TORPEDOED ANY SUPPORT for these shell-shocked, anti-communist, Americans and our helpers, the refugees.

Instead, President Ford had to recruit Christian organizations to offer assistance on a voluntary basis. As he did so, the Senator belittled those efforts. What kind of person would oppose President Ford’s tireless work to do the right and humanitarian thing? Who would want to play politics with the well-being of innocent people who stood by America in the tragic Vietnam War?

THAT SENATOR WAS JOE BIDEN
From the book – “When the Center Held.” by Donald Rumsfeld in 2018.(biography)
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August 24, 2021 12:08pm
- kevn
  
  @Nickc2… All fake news apparently.
  Per: techap.com, vietfactcheck.org and medium.com
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:25pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I don’t doubt your sincerity but:
    
    Medium: is a Blog Site that has the New York Times as one of its Contributors. Definately Suspect IMO.
    
    Viet Fact Check: An American-based PROGRESSIVE Volunteers Blog Site. Say no more.
    
    It’s advisable to have good Anti-Virus software when visiting these sites.
    
    TeChap.com (can’t be reached).
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:19pm
    - kevn
      
      @Nickc2… Interesting.
      This quote about biden has been going around the globe, copied word for word.
      Have you read the book and seen the actual quote for yourself ?
      We guess we were all ‘hoping’ it was true in the current climate.
      
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      August 24, 2021 5:44pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Accept it for what it is: Believe it or Not.
        
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        August 24, 2021 7:00pm
ABS4EVA

There is really only one Reason people in VICTORIA
PROTEST

DAN ANDREWS
AND
LABOUR
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August 24, 2021 12:14pm
- Tall Man
  
  That’s two …..
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:17pm
JohnnyOverton

Canterbury mayors are showing some resistance to the draconian 3 waters reform. Mahuta will take no notice of this, she’ll ram this through in dictatorial fashion.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126157817/serious-concerns-canterbury-councils-call-for-pause-to-three-waters-reform
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August 24, 2021 12:18pm
- kevn
  
  @Johnny… Far North mayor Carter has kicked it all to touch.
  Have to be a nation-wide consensus to be a goer surely.
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:27pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I would hope it needed a nationwide consensus to go forward but I fear she will push it through under legislation.
    
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    August 24, 2021 2:27pm
- Yabster
  
  yes the Waimak council have sent a letter to businesses asking for feedback- letter suggests 3 waters not in ratepayers best interest- which is correct. Submissions close early Sept.
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:38pm
rouppe

What did Jacinda’s heat map show?

If you put big enough dots on the page, you can make it look like the whole country is affected
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August 24, 2021 12:25pm
- Nickc2
  
  She obviously didn’t learn to diagonally resize graphics in her Communications Degree course. She should have got some kindy-kid to do it for her.
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wow, blue crayon this time. See kiddies? Use different colours for diversity
  
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  August 24, 2021 3:12pm
thirteenstars

Mods, you need to edit Tony’s post above to get rid of the i tag, or the rest of this page will all be in italics.

[Thx 13* – Mod.]
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August 24, 2021 12:27pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRzsubdqtc

Why does Castillo want to Nationalize Mining in Peru?

Peru is one of the largest mining powers on the entire planet. According to the US Geological Survey, in 2019 the country was the second largest producer of copper, silver and zinc worldwide. It was also one of the largest producers of gold, lead and tin among many other resources. It’s safe to say that mining has stood out as Peru’s largest economic activity. Despite this, the new president, Pedro Castillo, has unleashed a campaign against large mining companies and has even threatened to nationalize the industry on numerous occasions. All this has made us at VisualPolitik ask ourselves a few questions: What role does mining really play in Peru? Why has Pedro Castillo put the mines under the spotlight? What exactly is at stake? In this video we answer these and other questions. [15:09. So, it’s an Idiotracy. Just like NZ.]
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August 24, 2021 12:30pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBzxaiY-T_o

Rest of the world ‘increasingly thinks’ Australia has ‘lost the plot’: Panahi.

“What else can you say about a country where dogs are shot dead in the name of COVID safety – yes as the Sydney Morning Herald reports: ‘Several impounded dogs due to be rescued by a shelter have instead been shot dead’,” Ms Panahi said. “No wonder people overseas think we’re barking mad. “The rest of the world look on with disbelief as we rationalise any manner of cruelty and craziness; not letting loved ones visit their dying family members across borders, making people travel further for emergency hospital care so they don’t cross a state border. [5:59. Jacinda Ardern: “Hold my almond milk”.]
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August 24, 2021 12:30pm
graham

Oh dear. Looks like Delta has – gasp! – elbowed it’s dripping-nose way into the exclusive, nay SACRED, ground of Remuera.

The Village Dairy (543 Remuera Road, Remuera) and Upland liquor spot (545 Remuera Road, Remuera) are listed as places of interest.

Hope Maggie Pie has enough bog rolls to last …

EDIT: Why is everything in italics all of a sudden?
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August 24, 2021 12:34pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Looks like a HTML corruption in content of the first post. Odd.
  
  [Appears fixed. Mod.]
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:20pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  St John’s border actually Gray.
  And as I understand it, both Indian owned establishments.
  
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  August 24, 2021 4:27pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126144903/islamic-stateaffiliate-suhayra-adens-family-moved-to-new-zealand-after-australia-refused-to-accept-her

I find this incredible: how did they get permission to move to NZ with the covid restrictions in place ?
Is the NZ taxpayer paying for their accommodation?
Will they also be monitored by NZ security?
Did Jacinda know all about this some time ago, but as usual denies any knowledge?
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August 24, 2021 12:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They would have retained their NZ citizenship.
  
  Her Parents arrived in NZ as refugees back in the 1990s and gained citizenship here before shifting to Melbourne.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suhayra_Aden
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:05pm
  - greybeard
    
    OK. Thanks.
    Now Maggy, please explain why we are all talking in italics?
    
    [Appears fixed – Mod.]
    
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    August 24, 2021 1:08pm
  - sooty
    
    N Z was just a convenient stop in the citizenship shopping trip!
    
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    August 24, 2021 1:11pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep, Sure are.
  Meanwhile Kiwis stuck overseas and still no hope of getting home.
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:11pm
dcrane

Novotel Ellerslie MIQ has covid.

Doesn’t say if Delta, but maybe we’re seeing the signs of the end of the idea that we can keep this virus out with MIQ.
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August 24, 2021 12:40pm
- Okahu
  
  If an MIQ facility has a covid outbreak, isn’t that a sign it’s a good thing? Presumably, we’re the inmates not in MIQ, testable and treatable, they would be in the community. Not ideal for those infected perhaps, but better than the alternative?
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:50pm
  - dcrane
    
    Sorry, meant to specify that it’s a staff member.
    
    But anyway it turns out to have come from outside.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126164254/covid19-auckland-miq-staffer-tests-positive-after-visiting-location-of-interest
    
    4 1
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    August 24, 2021 2:48pm
    - cmm
      
      “But anyway it turns out to have come from outside.”
      
      No, it could have come from outside. It could have come from a location of interest. It could have come from MIQ. It could have come from somewhere that is not a location of interest.
      
      It’s difficult to tell.
      
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      August 24, 2021 4:31pm
westernScientest

Do they not learn, or do they not care:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300389883/covid19-labour-again-caught-delivering-party-advertising-during-lockdown
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August 24, 2021 12:45pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Never let a scary pandemic situation go to waste.
  Continue with all types of propaganda delivery whenever possible.
  Yea, that’s par for the course for the commies.
  What I do draw the line at though, is $tuff’s enablement of Ardern by their continuing choice of photograph.
  Always one that shows how much she cares – concerned and waif-like, anguish aplenty.
  I’m just not believing it.
  Shame on $tuff.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:01pm
- Tempist
  
  Perhaps someone could suggest Labour print their pamphlets on absorbent paper then they might be of some use…
  
  7 0
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  August 24, 2021 3:12pm
I remember when

When asked if capitalism had failed low-income New Zealanders, the PM said, “If you have hundreds of thousands of children living in homes without enough to survive, that’s blatant failure.
What else would you describe it us.”
“The Climate Crisis is a Child Rights Crisis: UNICEF.
Must have been a disappointment to Jacinda when we placed 161st out of 163 countries on the list.
A Bronze Medal performance.
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August 24, 2021 12:48pm
Fletch

Has someone turned on Italics for the last few posts? Or is it just me?

[Thx – appears fixed.]
4 0
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August 24, 2021 12:54pm
I remember when

TV News the other night:
“They revealed that students may not be isolating correctly.”
A new NCEA subject?
11 0
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August 24, 2021 1:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Covid still in an Exponential spread..
12 0
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August 24, 2021 1:13pm
- nathie
  
  Hmm also could that be why the PM isn’t fronting today (is she now in ‘witless protection’ again)?
  
  Shielding her from answering about the ‘bad news’ (and being associated with it – seeing that as well as the covid spread there are questions on why so few infected and ‘vulnerable’ people have received the jab, and of those usually only the first)!
  
  Or is it because she doesn’t have to face awkward questions on why the international media are calling her leadership and strategies out?
  
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  August 24, 2021 1:24pm
- paulscott
  
  Maggy. Almost every person in the entire world will come into contact with Sars-Covid variant soon enough, except New Zealand where she will
  ” eliminate” it
  
  5 1
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  August 24, 2021 4:47pm
  - sooty
    
    So kiwis will not be able to travel?
    
    5 0
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    August 24, 2021 5:39pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Which is what we should expect up to the point that everyone who contracted it prior to lockdown has infected everyone in their bubbles. 1st lockdown started March 25 2020 and new cases peaked 2 weeks later on 7th April it took 2months for new cases to drop to zero. Numbers look similar this time, but it spreads far easier so is likely to take a lot longer to abate (if it ever does).
  
  I doubt that it will ever come back down given substantial percentage who ignore isolation rules. This lockdown is going to be in place for months to come in Auckland (at least) before the govt finally admits defeat.
  
  Time for govt to pull finger and vaccinate everyone who wants it ASAP, concentrating on the outbreak areas. Because every day of this is costing >$100 million. It would be cheaper to economy to spend up to $1000 more per vaccination to rush it through a month quicker.
  
  2 1
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  August 24, 2021 5:17pm
I remember when

Ashley Bloomfield on the number of contacts traced against the last outbreak.
Wow at least ten times as many identified.
That sounds as if the MOH performance has been greatly enhanced.
Wonder if being able to use school rolls for 11,000 of them helped.
5 0
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August 24, 2021 1:19pm
crikey

I find Dr John Campbell’s almost daily YouTube video on Covid happenings in the UK, and around the world, very informative and professional.

His latest, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUMhItD3TkY, talks about antibody production from the vaccine and from natural infection with the virus. A large scale investigation due to start in the UK tomorrow, their Tuesday 24 August, will distinguish between antibodies from the vaccine (the S-protein from the spike) and two other antibodies from the ‘body’ of the virus – the E-protein (envelope) and N-protein (nucleocapsid).

This video, and Campbell’s others, are well worth watching for an unbiased view.
6 0
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August 24, 2021 1:26pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Thank you. It gives me great hope for our future. Unless I have totally read this wrong, there is a good chance that Covid19 will eventually die out much like SARS did
  
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  August 24, 2021 6:37pm
wilderbeast

Clever politics from Collins today. “Let’s hit 70-75% and then no more lockdowns”. Has had the effect of flushing Ardern out – previously not answering the question she now says that her target would be “much higher”. This lays bare her plan for lockdowns to remain on the menu for the long run. We know from overseas that above about 70% you run into hold outs and anti vaxxers. Ardern is saying we must go higher than 70% “to protect all New Zealanders”. Bollocks – there is no personal or collective responsibility in that approach – she’s found another excuse to keep us locked down and giving us forewarning.
25 2
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August 24, 2021 1:27pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I assume Collins was talking about 70-75% of eligible people rather than the whole population, but was that made clear? Also with the vaccine being rolled out to younger people especially children we will see even more hesitancy. Because the risk to return ratio is nowhere near as favorable for a teenager as they are highly unlikely to get seriously ill even with no vaccine.
  70% will be a stretch. Far better IMO to simply ensure that ALL people have had the OPPORTUNITY to get vaxed – then open up.
  
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  August 24, 2021 2:49pm
MrTips

Cindy may want to stop disinformation but she can’t stop opinions.
Have a look on YT at any NZ media website on the 1pm stories. Every single one has an unfavourable ratio of downtick/uptick.
The govt is getting pummeled.
17 1
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August 24, 2021 1:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If she wants to stop ‘disinformation’ she needs to start with herself
  
  16 1
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  August 24, 2021 2:22pm
  - dcrane
    
    Hah, and if they had moved fast enough I might have gotten the jab before I cottoned onto the fact that the government’s plan involves keeping things mostly closed long into 2022…
    
    5 1
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    August 24, 2021 3:47pm
    - dcrane
      
      oops this was meant to be in response to the next Steve comment…
      
      2 1
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      August 24, 2021 4:36pm
  - paulscott
    
    Steve there is a big difference between a person who misinforms and a pathological liar
    
    7 1
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    August 24, 2021 4:43pm
dcrane

63,000 vaccine doses yesterday, says the crawl at NZHerald.

If we had done this steadily for the past five months, all adults would have been fully vaccinated by now.
8 2
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August 24, 2021 1:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  All except one – ME
  
  9 3
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  August 24, 2021 3:17pm
  - paulscott
    
    There will be quite a few of us Steve,
    
    6 3
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    August 24, 2021 4:41pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The wife has several medical issues and is debating getting vaccinated – entirely her choice. My kids have elected to get vaccinated and have had their first jab.
  
  I m a healthy 74 year old scuba diver without any medical problems (at least outside the bedroom) and agree with Steve. I am happy to forego the vaccine and take my chances. Natural immunity has to be far better than fake immunity.
  
  If Steve and I stop blogging here you will know we were wrong. 🙂
  
  7 0
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  August 24, 2021 6:04pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Pfizer don’t just make vaccines ya know …….
    
    5 1
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    August 24, 2021 6:40pm
ABS4EVA

Rita Panihi

Does a pretty good analysis of the unfenced
Loonie Bin next door to NZ called
Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBzxaiY-T_o

Note the Highest Paid State Premier
Berating people for Watching a Sunset
7 1
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August 24, 2021 1:45pm
dcrane

Ah. So the genomic link to the Crowne MIQ traveler is not necessarily so exact as to rule out other travelers associated with the same NSW outbreak.
7 1
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August 24, 2021 1:54pm
Maggie Pie

My partner’s applied for the ‘Resurgence Support Payment’ (RSP)

Like he said…. “At least it will be a dinner out one night”
10 4
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August 24, 2021 2:10pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggie…. Trust all the staff get treated to dinner out as well?
  
  7 0
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  August 24, 2021 3:52pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    STAFF?
    He wouldn’t employ anyone in a fit these days!
    ‘Contract only’
    
    10 1
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    August 24, 2021 4:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I must admit to having been a bit thrown by the PM’s “Heat Map”.

Having trained as a forest ecologist, I take a heat map to mean something about variation in thermal energy of the environment being mapped.

(e.g. forest floor/soil temperature after a fire or in a geothermal area; infrared record of plant communities)

I had no idea it now means a bunch of shaded colours on a map.
16 0
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August 24, 2021 3:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It was a page out of her scrapbook that she takes to kindies
  
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  August 24, 2021 3:16pm
- westernScientest
  
  In data exploration the term heat map is used more generally for a method of visualising things where a 3rd dimension needs to be visualised, so a colour gradient is used. For example correlations among multiple variables, or relatedness between individuals etc.
  But what she held up was still not a heat map, it was a picture of New Zealand with some really large dots on it.
  A bubble chart would have been interesting, where the size of the dot is relative to the data, i.e. chch would have had one or two pixels and Auckland would have been huge and covered half of northland. But that wouldn’t sufficiently scare people.
  
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  August 24, 2021 3:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes
    
    5 1
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    August 24, 2021 4:43pm
- Nickc2
  
  I looked up the DUX Brag Board for her school and she didn’t feature.
  
  9 1
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  August 24, 2021 4:06pm
- cmm
  
  Maggy, it is common to use “heat maps” for other purposes too – especially those where the modelling is based on a thermal analogy.
  
  They are also commonly used as a way for providing a 3D effect on a 2D picture. eg false colouring of LIDAR images to show depth or other attributes (traffic density etc).
  
  To be a real “heatmap” using the above definition, it should be generated by some data visualisation software. In this case it looks more like it was generated by a graphic artist.
  
  I’m all for giving her a proverbial (non physical) thrashing, but I don’t think it is fully warranted in this case.
  
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  August 24, 2021 4:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s a propagandist’s tool when you want to highlight a feature among an obscure lot of data. The colour and gradients, if any, can be chosen by the designer.
  It may have legitimate uses too showing relative changes is some scientific presentations as this one:
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/23/the-interpretation-of-interpolation/
  
  4 1
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  August 24, 2021 5:22pm
- Prince
  
  I too was taken aback by that map.
  Then I gave it a minutes thought.
  It was supposed to show the need to keep, eg, the South Island in lockdown level 4, by having blue dots over the island, representing potential contacts.
  However, since there are no cases in, eg, Timaru, those ‘contacts’ must have tested negative.
  So someone tested negative, who gave their address in Timaru, and presumably was a contact of someone in Akld or Wgton who tested positive.
  So what ? They tested negative. Perhaps they are on holiday in Akld or Wgton but usually live in Timaru. Again, so what ?
  Because the tested negative, the fact they (might have) lived in Timaru is just irrelevent.
  But Ardern used it to justify locking down the South Island.
  She is either just ignorant, or deliberately misleadng the country.
  
  2 1
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  August 24, 2021 8:54pm
  - Nickc2
    
    She is either just ignorant or deliberately misleading the country.
    
    I’ll settle for both.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:59am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I’ll have to circle back to you on that. We know of someone who speaks like this …
https://rumble.com/vll3u4-psaki-has-no-response-when-asked-how-many-americans-have-evacuated-afghanis.html?
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August 24, 2021 3:15pm
igm

Once again Ardern’s muslim friends have their Halal butcheries open. Fuck the taxpaying Kiwis who have to rough it at the supermarkets, not to mention local butcheries who cater for everyone who are forced to close. This is going to be taken a lot further this time and there better be some realistic answers. This discrimination will no longer be accepted.
26 2
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August 24, 2021 3:43pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are Muslims supremo citizens? Do they have greater immunity from Jacindamania than the rest of Nu Tirani?
  What about Maori are they to be relegated?
  
  Why a rule for one small group of citizens and not for other like groups?
  
  12 1
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  August 24, 2021 5:16pm
  - Tall Man
    
    They can’t catch covid ……… True !
    
    0 1
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    August 24, 2021 6:37pm
Nickc2

China takes the piss out of America via it’s state-run media. Oh, Joe, you bought this on America all by yourself. What a bumbling fool.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/08/video-communist-chinas-state-run-media-video-excoriating-and-humiliating-bidens-america.html
12 2
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August 24, 2021 3:56pm
krazykiwi

“The problem with Australians is not that so many of them are descended from convicts, but that so many of them are descended from prison officers” — Clive James

A brilliant, insightful writer, Sir Clive James died in 2019. If he’s looking down on his old patch today I’m sure this quote would be front-of-mind.
20 4
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August 24, 2021 3:57pm
dcrane

OK, this is sinister: from a passage in an article about Morrison criticizing NZ’s elimination approach.

“Once phase C of the roadmap kicks in, at 80 per cent of the eligible population being vaccinated, double-jabbed residents will be exempt from domestic restrictions, the caps on vaccinated Australians returning from overseas will be abolished, and all restrictions on outbound travel for vaccinated Australians will be lifted.”

So lockdown-lite continues for those who don’t get the jab?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300389925/covid19-australian-pm-slams-nzs-approach-hits-back-at-state-opposition-to-covidnormal
11 1
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August 24, 2021 3:58pm
- fernglas
  
  Welcome to the rest of the world. It’s happening everywhere. You don’t have to have the jab, but equally, you don’t have to go overseas.
  
  8 1
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  August 24, 2021 5:31pm
ABS4EVA

Be Kind to Each other

and

Cook me some eggs
9 4
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August 24, 2021 4:05pm
Maggie Pie

POLICE 10/7 ……..IRAN STYLE 🙁

https://twitter.com/AlinejadMasih/status/1430004852252422145
5 1
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August 24, 2021 4:20pm
- Tall Man
  
  At least they were wearing masks ….
  
  2 1
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  August 24, 2021 6:35pm
ABS4EVA

If you think AFGHANISTAN is BAD

WAIT

Wait until you See US Ships and CARRIERS
going

GLUG GLUG GLUG

To the Bottom of the OCEAN
because that is what comes NEXT
3 12
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August 24, 2021 4:28pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Why? Superpowers can easily sink each others navies (particularly true of USA with it’s current tech advantage), so if anyone starts sinking US capitol ships they’ll very quickly lose their navy too.
  
  If China starts anything then immediate effect is that all her technologically advanced neighbours get nuclear weapons and delivery systems in next year or two.
  
  8 1
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  August 24, 2021 5:23pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    NO THEY WILL NOT
    
    YOUR MENTALLY RETARDED
    SENILE COMMUNIST CRETIN
    
    Biden
    
    Will do NOTHING
    
    They will take them out
    One at a Time
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSYjTmV1G3U
    
    0 0
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    August 24, 2021 10:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

My Brother in OZ just had his first covid vax, what a good boy sniveling socialist he is. Sent me a pic, but it was his new tattoo that was important.
Being a sniveling socialist he got a FREE bandaid and a lollypop – then asked for more lollypops for his grandkids.
FUCKS SAKE – socialists!
13 4
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August 24, 2021 4:52pm
- fernglas
  
  Trump was extolling the virtues of vaccines the other day in Alabama. Is he a socialist too?
  
  6 2
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  August 24, 2021 5:33pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Let it go, biden’s the new target, if you can find him …..
    
    4 2
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    August 24, 2021 6:31pm
  - dcrane
    
    Pretty sure Trump said people should keep their civil liberties.
    
    0 0
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    August 24, 2021 11:06pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  DIS OWN HIM
  
  0 0
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  August 24, 2021 10:10pm
Happychappy

Coronavirus: Finance Minister Grant Robertson probed on how much money is left in Covid- 19 fund.
Dispite documents showing about $5 billion left in Covid – 19 fund Finance Minister Grant Robertson there is more than enough money to get by and rattled of several different funds that could be used.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/coronavirus-finance-minister-grant-robertson-probed-on-how-much-money-is-left-in-covid-19-coffer.html
The question I want to know is why the media is letting him play loose with the truth and how come all this money has just come to light.
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August 24, 2021 5:42pm
Fletch

I thought newsreader Wendy Petrie retired? They had a big goodbye etc about it, but she still seems to be doing the news every night.
10 0
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August 24, 2021 5:50pm
- MrTips
  
  She did. But being the bluntest tool in the shed, she’s a useful mouthpiece for the story telling.
  
  10 0
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  August 24, 2021 6:19pm
  - sooty
    
    Probably back on high wages as a covid influencer. Or they are short staffed because covid has ripped through the news room!
    
    0 0
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    August 24, 2021 10:33pm
ABS4EVA

Auto Expert John Cadogan

Aussie Bogan
Scientific Automotive Engineers Analysis
of what is happening in OZ

GOOD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ga3Lgjvu0c
[COVID-19 Delta: The pandemic of high-level dishonesty in NSW (Part 1) | Auto Expert John Cadogan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWw0P1XcX4E
[Part 2]

Based on this AUS

NSW in Particular is in for

A NIGHTMARE
3 3
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August 24, 2021 7:05pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Note Cadogan
  
  Let’s Labour off the Hook
  
  Did the Maths but not the maths
  on how many Hundreds are dead because of
  
  AUS LABOUR
  
  0 0
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  August 24, 2021 10:13pm
Littletramp

Just listened to the Heath Select Committee, just over 1 hour of questioning about covid 19. I did not hear a single question about treatments of any kind for those found to be positive cases?
Why is treatment not receiving any attention? Is there any treatment allowed?
9 1
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August 24, 2021 7:30pm
- krazykiwi
  
  WHO and big pharma want continuous access to your wallet and your shoulder. Treatment which supports your own body’s development of natural immunity is unhelpful for that agenda. So treatment has been demonized.
  
  0 0
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  August 25, 2021 7:27am

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