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August 25, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 August 2021

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General Debate

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PhilBest

It suddenly hit me yesterday, what are the implications of Doc Fauci having been involved all along in “gain of function” research, and sneakily getting it continued at the Wuhan Institute of Virology after Congress defunded it in the USA.

Re-think EVERYHING Fauci said and did during this pandemic, in the light of the following reality: Fauci must have KNOWN from DAY ONE when reports emerged of an outbreak of a mystery respiratory illness a few blocks away from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, that, UH-OH, this is most likely MY pet gain-of-function project “leaking”.

The following label is an absolutely perfect fit: Fauci is the DR STRANGELOVE of virology. He has even said that this research was “still worth it”!
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August 25, 2021 8:00am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/14/dr-faucis-emails-tell-the-story-of-panic-lies-and-a-possible-cover-up/
  ‘Dr. Fauci knew COVID-19 likely came from the WIV. He knew American taxpayers funded gain of function research on coronaviruses at the WIV. He knew this funding bypassed required oversight. And he knew the virus “looked…engineered” and was “inconsistent with evolutionary theory.” And he knew all this on February 1, 2020.’
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:49am
- Critical Thinker
  
  We now know that Dr. Anthony Fauci has repeatedly lied to the public. He lied to the Trump administration. He lied to members of Congress. And he lied to the American public.
  
  Fauci lied about the virus ’s origins, and he lied about the role he played in funding the gain-of-function work done at the lab.
  
  While it is not possible to cover all of Fauci’s lies in one show, in this episode, we have chosen to let Fauci’s own words, taken from public clips, highlight the direct lies that he told.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2VUpetPTLY
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:50am
- virtualmark
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you guys have **any** proof of any of these Fauci allegations?
  
  Or is it just feverish speculation driven by hate and fear?
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:34am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘Or is it just feverish speculation driven by hate and fear?’
    
    Hahahahahahahahaha
    Yeah, actual Emails. Read them.
    Which is far far more than the Trump /mob Tinfoil hatwearing conspiracy nonsense you’ve been peddling.
    Your lack of self awareness is epic… and more than a little moronic
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:03am
    - virtualmark
      
      I did. And I confess it looked pretty standard “professional bureaucratic” stuff. Certainly not the smoking gun you seem to all be hyper-ventilating about.
      
      If you think the emails the Federalist have quoted are indicative of some conspiracy then you are the one who is moronic.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:07am
      - dcrane
        
        Don’t create a straw man. The OP on the email topic said this:
        
        “Dr. Fauci knew COVID-19 likely came from the WIV. He knew American taxpayers funded gain of function research on coronaviruses at the WIV. He knew this funding bypassed required oversight. And he knew the virus “looked…engineered” and was “inconsistent with evolutionary theory.” And he knew all this on February 1, 2020.’”
        
        And the essay refers to a “possible cover up”. Sounds like people not jumping to conclusions, actually.
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:31am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Ah, such subtleness. But alas it won’t through, charging at the same walls day after day is fun for the deluded.
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:52am
      - virtualmark
        
        Calm down.
        
        Personally I suspect Covid escaped from WIV, via a human mistake. And that WIV had been doing “gain of function” experiments on bat coronaviruses. That seems the explanation that lines up best with the known facts.
        
        But … firstly, I don’t trust Jim Jordan at all. Or should I say Gym Jordan. He’s not bright, not honest, not reliable. Secondly, these are emails from January 2020, when everyone was scrambling to respond to a situation with little or no data – so yes I would expect professional bureaucrats to be investigating multiple options, of which most would turn out to be dead ends. Thirdly, these are extracts from emails that have no context. The ellipsis in these quotes are doing a *lot* of work. Let me read the full email to get the context and I’ll place more weight on what you say.
        
        Look, if the US had solid proof of any of the things you allege then they would have made it public by now, because it would be intensely embarrassing to the Chinese rather than the US. This is why Biden is pushing the US intelligence community to look deeper into Covid’s origins … because geopolitics. That they are still looking tells me Gym Jordan is manufacturing cloth out of thin air.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:42am
      - paulscott
        
        This below is a lengthy description of the patents sought for Gain of function developments on the SARS component of the carrier Corona virus. David Martin evidence. This research and the patents given were funded by the CDC and National Institute of Health and Immunology. The evidence on patents given for Gain of Function is irrefutable, It exists. These facts are irrefutable, The bioweapon was manufactured. You can not obtain a patent for a naturally occurring mutation . The various genotyope sequences are owned .
        Fauci was demonstrably directing this research and had financial interests in the patents allowed, especially the HIV attachments nucleotide group.
        The investigation is being conducted by Reiner Fuellmich who has risen within Germany from despised “Conspiracy theorist” to valid researcher in several months.
        https://brandnewtube.com/watch/a-manufactured-illusion-dr-david-martin-with-reiner-fuellmich-9-7-21_hPChWe1no7nxGDM.html?fbclid=IwAR3uMiRSJCNsJqTDvx80ILESu9YUoKnZYXEWa8NBjmbNQaBZrj2_hB-iJ6A
        
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        August 25, 2021 3:36pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Supplied with evidence. “But where’s the EVIDENCE?”
    
    You can read, and listen, I assume? Do a bit of work, it might just be worth it!
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:04am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The final “proof” probably lies in the Chinese authorities hands, and we ain’t never going to see it.
    
    However we do know that Fauci was responsible for approving GoF research via third parties (Eco Health Alliance and possibly others). The research was GoF on BCV’s to make them more capable of infecting humans. There are papers published with that explicit information in them, though at least some of the details have been scrubbed from the web (with the way back machine only having some of the scrubbed stuff).
    
    The site of the research, why, the Wuhan Research laboratory. By sheer coincidence I’m sure, it happens to be exactly where the first cases of Covid-19 turned up. And what safety standards were used ? Well, it was supposedly capable of Level IV, the highest, but very credible reports indicate that much of the work on the BCV’s took place under level II rules, which means lab cots, gloves, and cloth masks and little else. With a virus that spreads via aerosols, that essentially guarantees that it will escape.
    
    Plus there are a lot of technical reasons to make the viral genome highly likely to have been engineered, either directly or via serial passage forcing through humanised mice – which technique was used in Wuhan according to published papers. For a start the Furin cleavage site. Such sites are actually known and if not common, do exist in other lineages of the BCV family – however every other known example encodes the cleavage site using the same sequence which is completely different from that in Covid-19. That alone is highly indicative of genetic manipulation.
    
    There’s little doubt that the null hypothesis is that the Covid-19 virus was modified in that lab and that it escaped. The requirement for proof is on those who still wish to claim a natural origin. So where’s your proof ?
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:13am
    - virtualmark
      
      Ed, I’ve posted here several times on the “lab leak” hypothesis, as far back as January based on this story here … https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html
      
      I suspect – but agree that we will probably never know – that Covid leaked from the Wuhan lab. I agree that there was gain of function research going on in that lab. It seems Professor Baric at UNC was working with the Chinese on some of that research. It may have had US public money in it, but I am sceptical whether Fauci himself would be across that in detail. He has a huge job and that’s the sort of small detail that I suspect wouldn’t rise to his level (in the same way Air NZ’s Saudi contracts didn’t go the CEO or Board).
      
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      August 25, 2021 6:30pm
  - doggone7
    
    Do you think it likely that those who know Trump won the election hands down would use feverish speculation?
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:50pm
Happychappy

Act Leader David Seymour shocked at only half of Covid-19 contacts returning tests.
This could only happen under a Labour Government that has no concern for others and whose arrogance shows no bounds.
The Act leader asked officials during a virtual meeting in Parliaments Health select committee how many of the15,741
current known contacts of Covid-19 have returned a test positive or negative, Director of Public Health Dr Caroline McElnay revealed that of the 369 close plus contacts, who are considered the highest risk, only 51% returned a test of which 11 came back positive.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/act-leader-david-seymour-shocked-at-only-half-of-covid-19-case-contacts-returning-tests.html
Unbelievable.
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August 25, 2021 8:00am
- westernScientest
  
  well they cant test too many, cindys ‘heatmap’ wouldn’t look scary enough and provinces might revolt when they realise there is no covid in the south island.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Need to change the crayon from blue to bright red
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:10am
    - I will not surrender
      
      No – blue is bad, red is good. Brown is even better.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:46am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    What are they actually testing for?
    Is it just live Delta matter I am guessing.
    I am so relieved they can eliminate other viruses from the test and dead particles, be such a shame if the actual results were found at a later date to be not correct.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:25am
    - cmm
      
      Considering that a virus isn’t really alive, there is no real way to tell the difference between a live and dead virus because the distinction makes no sense.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:30am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        then how do you tell between a live case and an historic case, I guess you test for antibodies?
        
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        August 25, 2021 1:21pm
      - cmm
        
        If there is an active infection then the virus is being replicated (not the virus does not actually breed per se, but it instead hihacks a cell’s physiology and the cell makes copies). Thus a virus isn’t really live as it cannot reproduce itself – it can however get a cell (which is alive) to do the replication function.
        
        At the same time, the immune system is gobbling up the virus particles and expelling them from the system. The immune system is generating antibodies etc.
        
        Thus it is possible to detect by various different means: the virus itself, bits of virus and antibodies.
        
        It is my limited understanding that antigens are only present during a current infection (and a short time after) while antibodies are present a long time after. Thus detecting antigens shows current infection while antibodies show current or past infection.
        
        Thus antigen and antibody tests tell different stories and have different purposes.
        
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        August 25, 2021 2:31pm
    - westernScientest
      
      Its a surprisingly long story what is actually tested with a PCR covid test.
      
      PCR stands for polymerase chain reaction, it is a way of taking something in a dirty sample and using enzymes and other chemicals to ‘search’ for specific bits of DNA and then copy them over and over so they can be found. This is done by the test design its self, the specific test (PCR is a method, each ‘test’ is specific to an application or target DNA sequence) has in it sections of genetic code which can ‘stick’ to the target genetic code. The over and over again is what is refereed to as cycles. Each cycle is a heating – cooling and chemical reaction cycle which causes the DNA to separate into single strands, which are then copied. It is a way of amplifying the genetic signal for machines/tests to be able to pick up if the genetic sequences exist later. Otherwise the signal just gets lost in the noise. Before covid it was typically used in labs for things such as looking for micro organism in soil samples and a host of other things. For example a soil microbiologest might want to amplify the DNA of a specific microbe in a soil sample in the presents of 1000s of other species of soil microbes not of interest, when they have already isolated a microbe if interest and sequenced it.
      
      Quickly, DNA is genetic code, RNA is how the cellular machinery gets the instructions to build proteins. An RNA virus effectively hijacks the cellular machinery to make copies the virus.
      
      Now sars-cov-2 is an RNA virus, it has no DNA. However RNA can be ‘converted’ to DNA though a series enzyme/chemical reactions and then it can be run through the PCR process to take that DNA which was synthesised from the RNA. Of course, this RNA to DNA procedure is completed before the PCR, so all the other RNA in the sample is also converted to synthesised DNA. Because the PCR doubles the amount of DNA in each cycle, if it is ran 35-40 times, your talking about a billion or more times more genetic martial that the PCR was designed to amplify than was originally in the sample. Note that the number of cycles required to find a positive result is directly related to the original viral load in the sample, low viral load, lots of cycles needed.
      I dont know how many cycles say the waste water testing is using, but I would has at a guess its a lot. The same probably applies for ‘historical’ cases.
      
      My personal opinion is that the use of PCR is fine, if it is coupled with a clinical diagnosis. Knowing that if you amplify something a billion times and then a less than perfect test can pick up its presets isnt really good enough. But couple that with symptoms associated with the syndrome (covid-19) and there is a reasonable, although not perfect argument that the person has covid-19.
      
      There are a lot of valid criticisms of the use of PCR in diagnosing a disease which can be found, especially at high numbers of cycles. But I am a bit over writing and I am sure you can find them.
      
      General Note, this is a really complicated topic I have tried to simplify, there are definitely omissions, simplification etc. Both so that it can be understood, but also because I dont understand the complexities.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:46am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I don’t think they test directly for which variant. I believe that the test is for the presence of the Covid virus only, and the variant is confirmed by later more detailed sequencing. The difference between the variants is relatively small, and I pretty sure that the standard tests don’t discriminate between the variants.
      
      So we “know” it is delta because at least some of the positive samples have been sequenced and the variant identified.
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:16am
      - westernScientest
        
        Yeah this is correct, the PCR amplifies ‘bits’ of the sars-cov-2 virus. It cant distinguish between varants.
        
        If it is a case of interest to ESR, say the first person in the community to return a positive PCR, they go and do a separate full genome sequence. This can give how similar it is to other full sequences, which is how they worked out it was delta from NSW. So in theory, there could also be alpha or something out there, forming a second cluster which is being attributed to delta, as I think they have only sequenced 80 or something of the samples, but it is unlikely.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:32am
      - paulscott
        
        New Zealand does not have the laboratory capability for mapping the Genome of the variant Delta . This means the announcement that the Delta variant had been discovered overnight was false on two counts 1. We can not in NZ “discover’ this variant. 2 Even if we could, we certainly could not manage this is in a few hours. If its mouths open its lying.
        
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        August 25, 2021 3:48pm
- kowtow
  
  Why haven’t we had spit testing , why haven’t they been testing the water every day , why haven’t they increased ICU capacity , how the hell the public could be in an MIQ …….
  
  …….so many questions , not being asked hourly by the Media pardy ( like they would if it was Orange Man issues)
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:45am
  - Nickc2
    
    With $5.75m, we could have bought some Saliva Test kits instead of funding the Mongrel Mob ($2.75m) and the Taliban ($3m).
    
    https://www.thermofisher.com/nz/en/home/life-science/dna-rna-purification-analysis/sample-collection/specimax-saliva-collection-kit.html?
    Costs are at the bottom of the page.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:28am
  - alan
    
    My family in the UK are going through COVID spell at the moment. For my brother it’s the second time he has had it even though he has been injected. All my family are concerned as my 91 year old mum has terminal cancer and would not survive a dose.
    What surprised me was that they all have these self testing swaps that they do twice a week at home to check if it’s spreading among them so my mum is protected. We are so far behind over here.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:33am
    - surfing
      
      91 is pretty good innings. If she has terminal cancer, how long does she have left ? You have to weigh all these things up to make the best decision, sounds like your family has done so.
      
      As for your brother, what is the severity of his second covid infection? My understanding is that it should be fairly mild.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:17am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maybe mild, the vaccine is somewhat protective and apparently decreases the likely severity, but serious cases and death can still result.
        
        Natural immunity however should be a lot stronger and not around 150 odd cases of second infections have been recorded (as of a week or two ago), so Alan’s brother sounds really unlucky. That’s an apparent worldwide figure too, though the UK has recorded a number of those double infected.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:20am
    - kowtow
      
      And now they are beginning to offer anti body testing , that way I suppose you’ll know whether you had it and presumably have natural immunities.
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:48am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Media? Meh, this piffling ‘oops’ is soooo trivial.
    
    But what about John Key and that ponytail, eh? Now, there’s a story…
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:47am
    - Prince
      
      Yeah, Chippie telling us to ‘spread our legs’. Haha what a jape. Nothing to see there. Good ol’ Chippie. No psych revelation in that.
      But a ponytail, well there hangs a story to be beaten up and thrashed for month after month.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:57am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Completely different ballgames re ponytailgate and the global covid trainwreck.
        
        However, a mere mortal would have got into serious trouble if he did that to a waitress (or if say a male corporate worker did that to a female corporate worker). Generally that’s considered “sexual harassment” these days. Strictly speaking I don’t see anything sexual about it but here we are (in clown-world). Harassment yes, sexual no.
        
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        August 25, 2021 4:07pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Why do we need increased ICU capacity? There’s not a single person in ICU in New Zealand with any variant of the pox.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:05am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Got one right there.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:48am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      It might be time for the leadership to exercise “an abundance of caution” and get pop up covid hospitals set up and ready to roll?
      
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      August 25, 2021 6:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Waipareira Trust is purchasing saliva tests
    
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/john-tamihere-waipareira-to-trial-saliva-testing/
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:30am
- PhilBest
  
  I’m not sure what David Seymour is after here. Does he mean that people are reluctant to “return their tests” because they no longer trust the government at all? Surely he is not criticizing Labour for being “too soft” and not sending a Robocop squad around to the non-compliant? Note that international opinion on NZ’s stance is that it is already OTT.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:47am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    David is actually having a shocker of a war, he is just screaming into the void that Labour should have gone harder and faster with tracing and vaccines. When is he going to realise that there is a growing number of well informed citizens who are not going to vote for him next time as he is proving to be more authoritatian than the rest.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:36am
    - Nickc2
      
      Are you still getting your Pay Cheques from Frazer House Charmaine?
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:15am
    - Tall Man
      
      100% agree, plus “shouting” when you are incapable of doing anything is little more than virtue signaling.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:34am
    - surfing
      
      You an anti-vaxxer?
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:39am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      What I would like to hear the opposition saying is about increasing vaccinations and cranking into 24-hour booths.
      It seems they learned nothing from last year when the public saw them as apparently defeatist.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:50am
      - Tall Man
        
        What I’d like to see are a lot less lies from ardern and co and a little more truth from the socalled podium of truth.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:33am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The article isn’t 100% clear, but the thrust seems to be that the government is trumpeting the number of tests they have taken, but not the number or percentage of those deemed highest-risk contacts.
    
    From the article: “Director of Public Health Dr Caroline McElnay revealed that, of the 369 close-plus contacts, who are considered the highest risk, only 51 percent had returned a test, of which 11 percent came back positive. ”
    
    So these are the people who had the highest degree of contact with known cases, yet the government hasn’t required them to take a COVID test yet. Half of them!
    
    The distinction between taking a test and returning a test may be moot, since people don’t get sent test kits to do their own test, then decide if they want to return them for analysis. If you weren’t going to return it, why would you stick the long swab up your nose in the first place?
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:12am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    So-called libertarian Seymour is just as deluded as all of the other politicians when it comes to Covid. He’s looking extremely disappointing on this. He and they are living in a virtual reality. Playing to the bamboozled crowd should be secondary to showing real leadership and saying what may be, at least initially, unpopular.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:55am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  To be clear I will not be having a test voluntarily.
  
  I just wont.
  
  The only test I will have is for anti bodies.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:02am
  - Ian Boag
    
    The only test I will have is for anti bodies.
    
    There was a lot of interest in antibody testing last year. On the face of things it was the bee’s knees – simple, quick, can be self-administered etc etc.
    
    Unfortunately it just didn’t cut it. Two issues – (a) sensitivity and (b) selectivity. If it doesn’t get there on (a) then it misses some positives. If it doesn’t get there on (b) it detects some false positives.
    
    And it tells you if you have been infected a while ago (antibodies take a while to happen). You can look it up ….
    
    The Poms ordered a zillion kits when it was all looking good then cancelled the order.
    
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    December 25, 2020 10:06am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Mmmm…results sound like the PCR test.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:53am
    - PhilBest
      
      Actually if the PCR tests were being interpreted as a proxy for antibodies tests, that would be a lot more sense. They are superior to antibodies tests for detecting that someone “had an infection”. If you are trying to estimate how much of your population has been infected, the PCR tests will have picked up around 3 times as many people as antibodies tests.
      
      By the way, it does not make sense to have banned antibodies tests altogether, even as a private sector initiative:
      
      https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/medicines/policy-statements/COVID19/COVID19PointOfCareTestKits.asp
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:20am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    You prefer being tested by a full blown case of Covid? Hope you don’t expect to use public medical facilities while you conduct your own experiment.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:02am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      As Kow Tow put it:
      
      “step up and take personal responsibility for own your choices ( like the rest of us are expected to do)”
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:07am
    - PhilBest
      
      I would volunteer for this without hesitation:
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7685031/
      
      That is medical scientific genius.
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:22am
- Simon
  
  Here is a question.
  
  Who is more leaky? Todd Muller or the pfizer ro vaxx.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:06am
  - PhilBest
    
    That was Chris Bishop wasn’t it?
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:22am
- Ra Henare
  
  I see the No vax, no Entry hysteria has started.
  ……………..
  As soon as Headquarters in Auckland’s Viaduct can re-open, proof of vaccination will be needed to enter.
  
  The restaurant and bar is a location of interest due to a recent positive Covid-19 case.
  
  Owner Leo Molloy told Mike Hosking mandating vaccines will be relatively easy to implement when they reopen.
  
  “You get a small, library-sized card given to you. I’ve photographed that and put that on my iphone, so fairly basic to produce that, no different to any other form of ID.”
  …………….
  
  Except they dont give you a small library sized card any more!!!
  Even the original was worthless as a means of identifying. Very easy to forge/misuse. Think Kids and over 18 ID which they used to borrow from older friends.
  
  Had my 2 jabs overseas. Have a credit card type card(plastic not a piece of paper) with my photo and a QR code to the national database ,for verification. Plus the dates and info of my jabs.
  
  Why is MOH so ferkin useless when 3rd world countries far outstrip our so called 1st world Health system.
  Oh and cant and dont blame Cindy for this fkup. Its an operational decision.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:37pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Too true Ra. If/when it becomes mandatory for us to present some form of vaccination confirmation to travel overseas or even enter premises in NZ where certification of vaccination is required, the cardboard card I was given for my first injection will have been lost or beyond recognition.
    IMO, the Govt should mail those who they have vaccinated a card like a Driver’s License that is an official document and recognised internationally.
    Come on MBIE or whoever, get your act together and start accumulating such data as to enable the issuing of such a card and Govt management thereof.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:14pm
    - paulscott
      
      Excellent Nick The New World Totalitarian order and you’re right with it. Will you wear the arm band Nick, or me?. It will be yellow.
      
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      August 25, 2021 4:14pm
      - Nickc2
        
        I don’t mind carrying a plastic card like a driver’s license if it gives me access to places that would otherwise be denied. Let’s face it, I carry them for driving, clubs, memberships and even paying for stuff. If it’s privacy you’re concerned about, why not make it optional. When optional, you won’t get access to stuff that is legally denied unless you are vaccinated.
        The owner of some bars in Akld is already saying he’s going to have security on his pubs/clubs doors that will be checking intended patrons are vaccinated because laws are in the pipeline to make publicans etc responsible if patrons become infected whilst on their premises.
        Paul, my emphasis is also on making these things internationally recognised/accepted.
        The US is going to make such things compulsory and it certainly makes things easier if we have such a recognised document when traveling.
        
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        August 25, 2021 5:02pm
Critical Thinker

Covid Plan B: A growing number of New Zealanders are now asking if there’s an alternative to more lockdowns.

We’ve revised and updated our original Plan B to account for the latest data on SARS-CoV2 and the failure and unintended costs of lockdowns.

https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/uncategorized/protocol-for-re-opening-new-zealand-society/

Some key updated points are:

1. Data from the WHO, CDC and other peer-reviewed studies show the median infection fatality ratio (IFR) is ~0.23%, not the projected 3.6%. The condition is therefore like pandemics in 1957 and 1967, not influenza in 1918. Asymptomatic individuals do not spread the infection, removing the key idea underpinning lockdowns. Long-term health effects are no different to or more prevalent than those experienced in the recovery period from existing circulating pathogens.

2. The PCR test is not reliable. Many people who test positive are asymptomatic. The clinical symptoms associated with covid-19 are not unique.

3. The average age of death with covid-19 is about the same as our life expectancy (~82 years). Older people are much more likely to die of covid than younger ones.

4. The ‘vaccines’ are not what Govts hoped for. They reduce PCR positive cases, but do not prolong overall survival or reduce transmission. In countries with highly vaccinated populations, there are increasing numbers of breakthrough cases.

5. Early treatment protocols are showing promise in cases otherwise destined to be hospitalised.

https://www.facebook.com/covidplanb/
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August 25, 2021 8:00am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Censorship of Dissenting Voices – Auckland University Epidemiologist & Covid Plan B Founder Dr. Simon Thornley
  
  Media: “A group of health experts who believe the governments lockdown response has been too harsh, say they feel censored with the government and even the media. They’re concerned the government is getting all their scientific advice from an echo chamber.”
  
  Simon: “I believe that this has been an overreaction. I’m worried that locking down NZ for too long is going to create more problems than we’re trying to solve. For most of us in the general population we’ll actually do very well if we see the virus.”
  
  Media: “We emailed the health minister to ask if their decision to go into lockdown had been challenged by any of their health advisors, but got not official response.”
  
  https://www.gettr.com/post/p8iqi3ac9e
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:15am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Minister Robertson says every public health expert he speaks to says the strategy is exactly the right one for NZ.
    
    I say widen your circle of advisors. Echo, Echo.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:58am
    - Ruahine
      
      How much are you paying all these health ‘experts’ that are talking to you Robertson?
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:07am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Step 1: All the scientists agree!
      
      Step 2: Here’s the scientists that don’t.
      
      Step 3:
      
      Step 4: ALL the scientists agree!! ???
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:16am
  - oldfella
    
    CT, this article by Peter Dunne is well worth a read. Among other things he says–
    
    “I would prefer the government when dealing with complex but not unexpected situations like this week’s outbreak to keep its focus solely on the facts, without the extraneous, embellishing drama. People simply need to know what is happening, how it affects them, and what they need to do. They can work the rest out for themselves without the saccharine laced platitudes masquerading as announcements that have become so much a part of the process.”
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2021/08/peter-dunne-mismanaging-covid.html
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:57am
    - Spring Bank Westie
      
      I quite agree, despite being described as The Great Communicator, she’s goi a degree in it after all, if you close your eyes during the Sermon from the Mount
      (3. a horse that is ridden or is available for riding.
      “he hung on to his mount’s bridle”) you could be in the audience for the Morrinsville College debating team try-outs.
      
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      August 25, 2021 1:12pm
  - Boutique Avo Orchard
    
    Critical Thinker, you make most valid points and the refusal of Ardern to debate much is all telling. Just read an article in the Guardian in which Ardern is quoted:
    
    Jacinda Ardern, on Monday: “For now, everyone is in agreement: elimination is the strategy. There is no discussion or debate amongst any of us about that, because that is the safest option for us while we vaccinate our people,” she said.
    
    Well, reckon at least half the country is not in agreement! But when she refuses to have reasonable debate and listen to the people who pay her wages its just so like being stomped on.
    
    For the lefties on KB, i am probably one of the few in NZ who are a true swing voter. I have voted for nearly all parties over the years (aside from the Greens) and yes, even voted for Clarke in her second term. However, have never voted for Ardern and never will. The article in the Guardian today and quote above confirm that for me. There is no way we would be where we are today (mostly unvaccinated) under either Clarke or Key or even Peters!
    
    Ardern is surviving on borrowed time politically.
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:14pm
- CJames
  
  The number of breakthrough cases and deaths occurring gives a big cause for concern. Basically it is saying unless we turn into a hermit kingdom, we can’t eliminate Covid.
  https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500
  Note the final comment.
  Critics of the agency like former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, said federal officials are failing to capture the overall scope of infection of Covid cases. Gottlieb told CNBC Friday, “I suspect probably one in 10 infections is actually getting reported.”
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:56am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    This is the same Scott Gotlieb who sits on Phizer’s board? Not sure I trust anything coming from him.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:42am
    - PhilBest
      
      Touche! the noble Dr Robert Malone’s top concern in going public, is “regulatory capture”.
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:24am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  Anyone got a source for the “Asymptomatic People can’t spread infection” reference? Not saying it’s wrong, I think it’s quite plausible but I’d like to see some evidence. Google is a waste of time.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:11am
  - CJames
    
    Just did the search in Duck Duck Go and without the quote marks.
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article
    https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/asymptomatic-people-not-guilty-of-spreading-covid-19-virus-says-who-750525/
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:13am
  - Ian Boag
    
    This says different ….
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/08/coronavirus-delta-patients-are-infectious-without-symptoms-for-longer-study.html
    
    Good ole internet. Always plenty of what seems to be reasonably authoritative sources that disagree with each other ….
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:17am
    - Tall Man
      
      Hmmm, CDC or Newshub ……
      
      Also, the “average” difference is merely 1 day if you accept Newshub’s asertion.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:32am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Newshub was reporting a study published in Nature. A fairly respectable sort of journal. I agree that CDC would normally be a bit of a gold standard, but they were sort of MIA when covid showed up in the US.
        
        Asymptomatic and infectious for 2 days doesn’t sound all that bad on the face of things, but it is not zero ….
        
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        August 25, 2021 12:46pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Not 2 days Ian, 1.8 as opposed to 0.8 … on average.
        
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        August 25, 2021 1:50pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Does asymptomatic spread occur?
    https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/our-posts/protocol-for-re-opening-new-zealand-society/
    A mass testing study in Wuhan, a city of 10 million residents, identified 300 asymptomatic cases, with no evidence of spread of infection from them.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
    
    “The virus remains yet to be isolated, the sequence of the virus was generated in silico (stitched together from computer databases) and many people who test positive are asymptomatic.”
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:21am
  - covfefe
    
    When I last bothered to look, asymptomatic people’s viral loads as high as symptomatic, but having no symptoms won’t be coughing and sneezing – so I would say less infectivity but not ‘can’t’.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:56am
- Fight4NZ
  
  “A growing number …”
  
  Probably the most unsubstantiated but extraordinarily popular claim in the antivaxx cave.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:08am
CJames

Another piece of information has slipped out that should make the TDS proponents heads spin. The British MHRA have approved Regeneron for treatment of severe Covid-19 and to reduce chances of admission to hospital. It isn’t a substitute for vaccination but a drug to treat those that have it. Sajid Javid even tweeted about it. It got approval for use in USA last year.
This was the same drug that Trump took in October when he got the Wuflu. And he was attacked by all and sundry for using a treatment that wouldn’t work. I don’t think those column authors have issued retractions or admitted they got it wrong.
Trump was a narcissistic arsehole; but compared to his successor, he’s an absolute genius who listens to advice and gets things right.
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August 25, 2021 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  At the time, the blogosphere was full of TDS lefties gloating over Trump’s imminent death from Covid. I bluntly asked many of them how much they wanted to bet on that; I would bet on Trump’s survival. On multiple grounds that were bleedin’ obvious to me by then; not least that Trump was not a nursing home patient; that Trump’s age group was already surviving Covid at a rate of around 85%; and that if you took the nursing home patients out of those statistics, the survival rate was well over 90%.
  
  Plus Trump had been taking HCQ as a prophylactic, and the facts are that HCQ is effective to some extent, and not dangerous. We are dealing with dark forces and big lies in this whole thing.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Then all of a sudden the second biggest producer of HCQ had a huge fire in Taiwan, hmmmmm
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:46am
  - alloytoo
    
    The media war against HCQ and other safe similar drugs has frankly been evil.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:33am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  I’m old enough to remember the entire media telling people not to get a vaccine produced under Trump. If Trump was still in they’d still be saying it now.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:26am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Pelosi if I remember correctly. Incredible really.
    
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    August 25, 2021 4:22pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  He wasn’t attacked for using a treatment that wouldn’t work. He was attacked for getting a treatment that was not available to the general public while thousands a day were dying.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:29am
  - kowtow
    
    He was being attacked for being Donald Trump.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:46am
  - raven
    
    slightlyrightly – yes comrade, they remember incorrectly, they should check the wall again to be reminded what happened.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:47am
  - CJames
    
    You are so easy to disprove.
    https://news.yahoo.com/remdesivir-hailed-and-taken-by-trump-doesnt-work-for-coronavirus-world-health-organization-declares-192616230.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHNBnbAJ5iXHHhXCTNZBEdgsBo1ecP2VCHNQg9e4kKet8yKwzadZTuakoqhxgELCgajNdeLFMrGlqbxwqwEW2nah4JP-8qMXTkoJdlagZWhHM7lCr2j6lY-StC1PetpuYpAioaFXugB9jTunEKMlUVPeOUM7VaXHNx2IWZmHrcE7
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:52am
  - PhilBest
    
    He took part in a “trial” then. The TDS mob want to have it both ways all the time. If Trump had touted Regeneron as a treatment before he got it, it would have been banned through a concerted effort by everyone from The Lancet down, using rigged “studies” and outright fabrications. But when Trump actually uses it and survives, the TDS mob assume “unfair cheating of death” even though statistically Trump had a high chance of survival anyway.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:53am
  - MCos
    
    Depending on who was commenting.
    It was pointed out at the time the he had access to experimental drugs produced by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals not generally available.
    Japan was the first country to approve Ronapreve (casirivimab and imdevimab) for the treatment of mild to moderate COVID-19 in July ‘21.
    It apparently costs £1000 to £2000 to manufacture per course.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    His Doctor prescribed it ,he did not buy it off the chemist shelf. Your TDS is showing
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:13am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      A doctor patient relationship, now there is a novel idea, the mass media, politicians, and health officials have done there best to destroy this excellent and enduring relationship through time.
      Who would take any advice from a health official facing criminal charges, the answer, millions of sheep.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:29am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        This is one link of dozens to the criminality of Victoria’s chief Heath officer, a very bad man.
        A former police commissioner going after up to two hundred officials. Don’t fool yourself s, if you can shut down parliament and rule by emergency, you can shut down justice.
        https://smartassam.podbean.com/e/episode-109-part-3-fmr-chief-commish-kel-glare/
        
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        August 25, 2021 9:52am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Nah he was attacked for recovering swiftly and thus giving the TDS sufferers the finger, with a gleaming smile 🙂 He advocated for the mass use of those life saving treatments. Who blocked/sidelined them???
    
    If Obama/Harris/Biden had done the same nobody would have batted an eyelid. “Of course the prez/VP is a sooper dooper VIP and should be given top priority” would have been the thinking.
    
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    August 25, 2021 4:31pm
- kowtow
  
  This was the headline for the story in the UK Daily Telegraph on Saturday 24 Aug;
  
  ‘Green light for covid drug that slashes risk of packed hospitals .’
  
  Our media pardy are very fond of filling their pages with overseas content , one wonders why they didn’t run that story …….
  
  …….could it be because it included the sentence “Martin Landray Prof of medicine and epidemology at Uni of Oxford said ‘Covid is not a rare disease and many people get better of their own accord after a few days of a nasty flu like illness”
  
  No, instead we are treated to more fear porn with stories from modellers of tens of thousands of death if Oz opens at 70 % vax rate .
  
  Why are the Media pardy still pushing the many times over discredited fear porn modellers .
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:36am
Scott

When Joe Biden came to be president he was sold to the public as the experienced man, the man of empathy, no more mean tweets and years of sound foreign policy experience. Well the Afghanistan crisis has pulled back the curtain on Joe’s actual ability to govern.

He pulled out the American troops first, without telling anybody, even his own allies! Having pulled out the troops he’s now trying to bring home the civilians. They’re stranded in Afghanistan at the mercy of the Taliban! The equipment? Well that’s all in the hands of the Taliban.

As Trump said recently, first you pull out the civilians and interpreters, then the equipment; then and only then do you pull out the troops.

Apparently according to reporting, American troops who’ve had to go back in, are relying on getting fuel from the Taliban. The Taliban have told Joe that August 31 is the deadline and that’s it.
The most powerful nation in the world has undergone a profound humiliation. And sleepy Joe is in charge.
Let’s be honest, he should have gone to a retirement village some time ago.

And now the Taliban are emboldened. They really believe Islam is going to rule the world.
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August 25, 2021 8:01am
- Master Mariner
  
  Some doubt regarding “refugees” entering Europe already.
  
  https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/suspect-afghan-evacuees-put-focus-european-security-screening-2133591
  
  “A spokesman for the German interior ministry said “less than 10 people” had been found to have an existing criminal record in Germany during these checks.”.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:49am
- PhilBest
  
  It’s not just Biden. In fact it probably isn’t Biden at all, he is just an enfeebled old man seeking confirmation, who is putty in the hands of those who have formed a ring around him.
  
  This cartoon is the epitome of right-wing nastiness but you get the point of how some people are thinking about all this:
  
  https://www.daybydaycartoon.com/comic/call-it-8/
  
  Mark Steyn’s last “show” – at least the first half or so – is a superb lockdown listen, on this point. “Who are these guys working for”?
  
  https://www.steynonline.com/11619/who-are-these-guys-working-for
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:58am
  - Ed Snack
    
    What’s nasty about that cartoon, if anything it understates the case. Not even a patch on the nastiness of the leftoid stuff on Trump.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:28am
- redeye
  
  I’m neither a TDS sufferer nor a Trump supporter but you need to admit that Trump was the third president in row to have promised and failed to bring the troops home.
  Anne Coulter has an interesting take on Afganistan on Taki and it’s hard to argue against most of it.
  
  https://www.takimag.com/article/joe-vs-the-swamp/
  
  Former President Bush told the press he watched the withdrawal with “deep sadness” — then demanded that we bring as many Afghans here as possible.
  
  Obama was unavailable for comment this week, as he was partying with Beyonce, but back in 2011, after killing Osama bin Laden, he announced that the troops would be home by Christmas.
  
  President Trump, that weathervane of popular opinion, tweeted — one month before the election — quote: “BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME.”
  
  Now Biden has done it. It’s our country’s good fortune that our president is too senile to be outmaneuvered by the generals as Bush, Obama and Trump were.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    There’s bringing them home in an orderly fashion and bringing them home in a chaotic fashion.
    
    Biden chose the latter.
    
    There was no way that bringing home the troops would have any outcome other than the Taliban taking over. The Afghan army was always a joke and there was no way that would ever produce a stable system.
    
    It was always going to be a huge mess, but perhaps not quite as bad as this.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:55am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Trump’s initial attempts to bring troops out was stymied by the intelligence community who created and spread the fake story about “Russian bounties”, something that many here including our esteemed host bought right into. That made it politically impossible to schedule a withdrawal as originally planned.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:32am
    - redeye
      
      I think that’s that’s the guts of the story. The swamp wanted to stay. And made it very difficult to leave.
      
      2) Our military brass, upstanding folks like Gen. Mark “I Want to Understand White Rage” Milley, may be incapable of creating the most minimal fighting force given $1 trillion and 20 years. On the other hand, they are fully equipped to create colossal fiascos — say, making the withdrawal as messy and embarrassing as possible, so that no one will ever try to end this war again.
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:49pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Guess you missed the point that Trumps plan was to bring them home by May 1st
    
    https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/2021/03/17/us-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan-trumps-deadline-weighs-biden/4667248001/
    
    But Biden stopped that!!!
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:57pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      May was chosen with a reason. It is still the winter season effectively in Afghanistan, when bad weather etc makes troop movements (on foot anyway) damn difficult. That was designed to prevent the Taliban moving in on the local Afghan government forces too rapidly, giving them time to find there own feet as it were.
      
      Delaying it as Biden did brought the departure into the usual campaigning season, so the Taliban were well able to move their forces around without hindrance, as they quite obviously did.
      
      As to quite why Biden thought a final withdrawal on 9/11 was a good idea, I can’t imagine.
      
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      August 25, 2021 5:11pm
- Inandout
  
  The Taliban have ordered the US to be out by August 31. How bloody demeaning to be instructed by inbred, inward looking war lords. Welcome to Biden world.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:24am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  They are certainly going to rule Afghanistan in the short term if the Mujaheddin don’t rise up.
  The weak old man states he will decide the date of withdrawal.
  These statements I read this morning says different.
  “Both Pentagon and State Department afternoon briefings now cancelled”
  “Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said that allowing the evacuation of foreign citizens after August 31 would “violate” the agreement reached between the US and the movement.”
  “From today, Afghan citizens have no access to the Kabul airport. Washington’s reaction is still unknown.”
  The weak old man is powerless in this matter as he is with his own countries border.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:36am
- Joe Kerr
  
  I recall my passed grandmother extolling the virtues of the withdrawal method. “Allow the seed to spill upon the earth” she so classily euphemised.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:46am
  - Colville
    
    Men who rely on the withdrawal method have a name.
    
    They are called Fathers.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:05am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      In certain supported circles they are known as sperm donors or on the birth certificate as ‘unknown’
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:34am
    - Joe Kerr
      
      Well she had 3 children, like a COVID vaccine it would appear withdrawal doesn’t make you proof, it just reduces the occurrence and severity of the symptoms of catching seed 😀
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:21am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, if I had suggested six months ago that a bunch of radical Muslim ragtops with homemade and improvised weapons would defeat the most powerful nation on earth, I would have been laughed out of the pub.
  But hey, it happened and only last week FFS. America will never live this down. All thanks to Joe Biden and a corrupt election.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    I’m pretty confident I could beat most MMA fighters if they had both hands tied behind their backs plus their shoelaces tied together.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      good one
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:36pm
  - MCos
    
    They didn’t defeat America. The defeated the forces of the the former President of Afghanistan, Ashraf Ghani, who didn’t wait around to see what would happen.
    America and a bunch of other countries had tried for years to prop him and his corrupt predecessor up, but long ago saw it was a hopeless proposition and have gradually withdrawn their their people.
    It’s notable that the Taliban have taken over other cities in the country and the local leader have just changed sides and life goes on.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:01am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Spin it any way you like, but the debacle in Afghanistan has been a major political and strategic blow to the USA.
      
      And 90% of the blame can be quite fairly placed on the Biden administration. Not necessarily Joe however, it was particularly notable when in a YV interview, SoS Blinken as asked if the President was aware of what was happening in Afghanistan, and Blinken simply said that it was an emotional time for everyone. He would not answer the question. So it is pretty likely that Joe actually does think it is all going swimmingly and to plan, his senile synapses simply won’t allow him to comprehend the disaster, and his handlers are keeping him in that position so his direct lies about what is happening seem to be delivered with some sense of sincerity.
      
      What other President, ever in US history, has press conferences with ONLY pre approved new pre scripted questions from pre assigned reporters. With the Answers prepared to read out; and the entire press corps simply accepts that and doesn’t even report on the charade. Hell, Joe’s teleprompter was captured in a shot, and at the end of the scripted statement were the words (in a different colour) LEAVE NOW. Joe is so absent that even his movements need to be scripted !
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:39am
      - Nickc2
        
        Do you think America is ready for its first woman president – Kamala Harris?
        
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        August 25, 2021 12:46pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Who ordered US troops out and whose orders did they obey? If you said Biden on both counts, you would be correct.
      The Americans were still there when the Afghan Army saw the Taliban coming and changed sides. It was then that Biden ordered US Troops home.
      Trump had previously arranged a peaceful withdrawal and schedule with the Taliban prior to his departure as Commander in Chief US Forces. Biden overrode Trumps orders, agreement and plan just because . . . . . . . . IMO, Biden was relishing in being the new Commander in Chief US Forces.
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:09pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      They didn’t defeat America or Joe Biden, they defeated neo-liberal western democracy.
      
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      August 25, 2021 1:23pm
- jon
  
  Real Clear Politics has Biden’s polling figures rapidly heading SOUTH!!
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:30pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    And given that those polls all ridiculously over sample Democrats anyway, his real figures must be utterly dire.
    
    It is like a Tui ad is it not ? 80 Million votes, yeah, right.
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:16pm
- curry4me
  
  Scott: And, they’ve learned to meme. The left haven’t yet. They are good at trolling too.
  
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  August 25, 2021 3:14pm
Tricati

Interesting day yesterday, with Bloomfield joining the scare mongering with an apple to oranges comparison to Scotland and possibly 10,000 deaths in NZ and saying the ‘delta’ variant is a game changer. Then we hear they have changed the way ‘close contacts’ are measured to give a higher number (more scare mongering). Yet they shot themselves in the foot, as they have only tested half so have no bloody idea what’s out there, so the figures presented from the podium of truth are actually erroneous. MoH still won’t support saliva testing which would accelerate the testing regime (at a lower the cost), and provide greater infection rate indication across the country.
Finally, we hear Labour have been delivering pamphlets (propaganda) during lock-down while people locked in their homes – Absolute arseholes that have now totally lost the plot.
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August 25, 2021 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  I hope that this time, people work it out from the death and hospitalizations data as it happens, that like in March and April 2020, this virus is harmless to close to 100% of people who did not already have one foot in the grave.
  
  And that the difference in vulnerability between a place like NZ and a place like Bergamo, is important “data” that epidemiologists with an iota of competence and integrity would have been all over like a rash so as to better understand this pandemic’s hows and whys.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:02am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  There is likely 3-7 times as many cases out there as has been reported. The fact we are still recording an increase in cases 7 days after the lockdown tells us these cases were all likely spread before the lockdown meaning they are at least 7 days behind. 7 people in hospital means about 700 people have likely had the virus in their system.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:13am
  - Tall Man
    
    Positives are not cases.
    
    Cases are sick people.
    
    There are possibly 10 – 20 times the number of postives using the current testing regime.
    
    How about we stick to reporting actual cases and encourage only symptomatic people to get tested.
    
    Also encourage symptomatic people only to wear masks and/or stay home and get someone else to do their shopping etc.
    
    How about we waste a tiny bit of money and prescribe ivermectin etc to all seriously at risk people vaccinated or not if we really are concerned about not killing grannies. If it doesn’t work, what’s the harm.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:23am
- virtualmark
  
  In the US the overall death rate from Covid is 1 in 513 (or at least that was the number 2 days ago). And comparing overall death rates year-on-year says that number likely understates the true death rate.
  
  NZ has about 5.4 million people. So if we had a 1 in 513 death rate like the US then that would be about 10,500 deaths.
  
  That sounds in line with what you’re saying Bloomfield estimated.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:38am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Use of straight forward facts? What manner of dark sorcery is this??
    The common practice is to dig out any obscure internet post that fits your agenda, or even doesn’t but the strength of your preconceptions overrides any reading comprehension skills you might have.
    There will be howls of derision if you don’t stick to the program of the “freedom fighters”.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:48am
  - PhilBest
    
    Of course we have around 28,000 to 30,000 deaths per year. “Covid deaths” do not represent a straight-line addition to annual mortality. Some countries have had no observable added mortality even as they have had “Covid death numbers” that have been obsessed over by the establishment machine.
    
    https://archive.org/details/covid-19-deaths-a-look-at-u.-s.-data
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:30am
    - virtualmark
      
      Sure. But it’s kind of important to not be the person who thinks lots of deaths are just a statistic.
      
      Those 10,500 or so Kiwis that would have died all have names. And families. And loved ones.
      
      And on top of those 10,500 or so Kiwis there would have been 3 or 4 times that number who suffered serious long-term health effects.
      
      We had a choice between (a) lie back, let it wash over us, have thousands die, but then get vaccinated and re-open, or (b) hold it off, have 26 die, then get vaccinated and re-open. The Government chose (a).
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:40pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      77 over 65s die on average every day in NZ.
      Using the 0.2% figure (worldwide average?)
      We could expect a Covid related death every day.
      
      Of course the MSM would do the shock horror thing for a while until the next big news cycle.
      
      They are still(and will stay) feasting on case numbers for a while yet.
      Many places in the world have stopped reporting on case numbers as they are considered meaningless. The new indicators are severe hospitalisations/deaths.
      
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      August 25, 2021 1:19pm
      - virtualmark
        
        If, in our “like the UK and USA” scenario, 10,500 people were to have died of Covid in New Zealand since the start of February 2020 then that would have been more than 18 deaths a day. I suspect that in that world the “shock horror thing” would be the whole news cycle, not just a passing item.
        
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        August 25, 2021 5:35pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Obviously treatment has improved dramatically over 18 months so let’s reduce that by 25%. Around Rodney’s number. Open up I say.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:07pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Yep he stole that idiot comparison from the Baker person.
  Certainly apples and chees comparison.
  Why not compare against other island states with a border!!!!
  ie
  Iceland most vaccinated country(10,000 cases, 30 deaths)
  
  Singapore lowest IFR(66,000+cases, deaths 50)
  
  Taiwan-The original Gold standard. After a huge surge in June/July, now 7 day average, 12 cases, 1 death.
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:07pm
Ra Henare

Today’s 1pm update will be delivered by Covid 19 Minister Chris Hipkins and Director of Public Health, Caroline McElnay.

Stand by for bad news.
No PM no DG.
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August 25, 2021 8:04am
- alloytoo
  
  At least it may be on time.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:44am
- jon
  
  Doubt if we will see Cindy for the rest of this week!
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:32pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Charlie Watts really was a fish out of water in the Rolling Stones, wasn’t he. Ironic that he’s survived by Mick & Keith. RIP Charlie.
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August 25, 2021 8:07am
- PhilBest
  
  Charlie was vital to giving the Stones a kind of authenticity of groove that often eluded the wilder rock drummers. His cross-genre collaborations over the years showed how much “versatility” counts.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:05am
- MCos
  
  Seeing as he recently recovered from throat cancer it’s not really surprising he’s died.
  Those other guys have long since left the rock and roll lifestyle behind them. The Queen probably drinks more than they do.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:21am
- RockyJ
  
  Keith Richards is still alive, I think. Or maybe not and they just keep his body propped up.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:47am
  - PhilBest
    
    There is a cartoon where Death – the grim reaper – is relaxing in front of the fire with a drink, and there is a “knock, knock” on the door. Death opens it, and there is Keith Richards, saying “sorry, but your time is up”
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:32am
- oldfella
  
  Maybe it’s a drummer thing, but Watts loved to collect cars, even though he didn’t drive and just liked to sit in them.
  Not sure if he matched Phil Rudd of AC/DC (and Tauranga) who at one time owned a rare 1991 Ferrari F40 and a brand new Ferrari 599, as well as two Lamborghinis, a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost, 2011 Bentley Mulsanne and Bentley super sport, Audi R8 V10, a 2011 Aston Martin DBS and 2010 Mercedes SLS AMG.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:21am
  - RichardX
    
    Nick Mason of Pink Floyd has a better collection.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:54am
Benedict Yu

Cactus Kate not too impressed with Maori and Pacific Islanders blaming white privilege for their low vaccination rates.

Maori devoted a year lobbying for iwi centric vaccination programmes. Then they don’t show up.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/08/where-bloody-hell-are-you-maori-and-pi.html

“If New Zealand really was racist we wouldn’t care and chuck the retards to the wolves. What we do care about is moving the F on from Covid and this will not happen until the dim and lazy are vaccinated to get the stats up.”
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August 25, 2021 8:08am
- CJames
  
  They are still complaining about how at risk they are and claiming that it isn’t being done in a culturally sensitive way. This is despite it being done by Maori nurses at marae.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/449488/misinformation-social-media-could-play-role-in-low-maori-vaccination-rate
  The cynic in me says the elites reckon they need more koha.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:13am
  - Bill Felt
    
    Maybe someone can help me out here? Do Maori and PI’s not have arms to be jabbed in like the rest of us?
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:25am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Speaking of PIs, they really do need to question their habit of flocking together every Sunday to breathe germs all over each other in the name of an imaginary sky fairy.
      
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      August 25, 2021 8:50am
      - PhilBest
        
        Another feature of them is that “being unafraid of death” may explain their highly relaxed attitude to health at all times.
        
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        August 25, 2021 9:06am
      - graham
        
        So, what you’re saying is that we should ban people congregating together in churches?
        
        Is that better or worse than banning people meeting together at, say, the pub, the theatre, restaurants …?
        
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        August 25, 2021 9:12am
      - GreenYarn
        
        Great idea. Perhaps we all need to question the freedom of religion and freedom of assembly.
        
        We should also question the habit of children flocking together everyday for the purpose of education. The government will probably love for us to question that provided it only applies to charter and private schools.
        
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        August 25, 2021 12:51pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Pay people they may respect and revere to go round and pick them up and take them to the vaccination centres.
    Maori All Blacks (past and present) , league and netball players.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:30am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Seriously? I think it is simple. They don’t want to be vaccinated. Yet for the last 12 months a bunch of Maori consultants got paid a bunch to write vaccine strategies for Maori.
      
      My doctor is Chinese. But solely because he was the first doctor I could see on my first day in Christchurch I needed a doctor after moving here. We converse in English and talk about my health. Not our culture.
      
      Time for Jacinda to deliver a blunt message. We paid for all that stuff. You wanted it. Now get out and get vaccinated. And zip it.
      
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      August 25, 2021 8:38am
    - stewmar
      
      Pay people they may respect and revere to go round and pick them up and take them to the vaccination centres
      
      WHY??? They’ve got brains too haven’t they?
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:08am
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    “misinformation” i find this term a bit of chuckle coming from the same people that lied about Afghanistan for 20 years.
    
    The fact is people are more informed because there is a ton of scientific data out there from studies and results to the inventors of the mRNA vaccine.
    
    The problem for the lying media is people are to “informed” and this makes them very angry.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:36am
    - PhilBest
      
      https://static.wixstatic.com/media/faab9f_6337eeb5c1f5428985bc46b9259826b5~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_360,h_525,al_c,q_90/faab9f_6337eeb5c1f5428985bc46b9259826b5~mv2.webp
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:08am
  - westernScientest
    
    They have access to the same information as the rest of us.
    
    Maybe, more of them have just looked up the various studies etc. and made an informed decision that the vaccine is not worth the risk to them.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:43am
    - PhilBest
      
      I have been consistently impressed with how well informed the young PI guy who cuts my hair is. On the other hand, among my circles of upstanding middle class friends who are staunchly pro-jab, most of them are completely unaware of the difference between mRNA and standard vaccines, or even that this Pfizer jab is mRNA. Nor do they know about the absurd over-sensitivity of the PCR test. I could go on. And they sneer at the hesitant as “ignorant”!
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:11am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    According to Dr Bloomfield in reply to Debbie Ngarewa-Packer at Yesterday’s Health Select Committee hearing only 1 Maori has Covid presently… but over 50% of the cases are in the Pacific Islander community.
    
    Perhaps all the emphasis on one group’s rights has diverted attention away from other vulnerable folks.
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:59am
  - cmm
    
    How do you apply a vaccine in a culturally sensitive way?
    
    Perhaps cut a person’s arm with a paua shell and pour it in?
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:36am
  - Nickc2
    
    KOHA – You’re onto it CJ.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:22am
  - Cactus Kate
    
    Yes I have heard from many 60+ white males I know that it’s the first time they’ve ever been near a marae. Talk about ducks out of water.
    
    Proving that there’s no excuse for Maori and Pasifika’s constant whinging that they need their own special approach to vaccine (read more money for elites and consultants) and have their egos stroked and hands held. No they do not.
    
    You get an appointment where they tell you, you turn up on time, you get it done then you come back when they tell you and do it again. None of that has anything to do with race.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:43am
- PhilBest
  
  We’ve already been told endlessly that higher Covid death rates among people of color is more evidence of racism, when Vitamin D deficiency is sufficient explanation. Perhaps a mainstream medical system that doesn’t bother to tell anyone about Vitamin D, and doesn’t bother to tell PoC that they need it more than anyone else if they live in un-sunny climates, is the problem? And this is not systemic racism either, this is an inherent feature of a system run along the “Big Pharma First” lines that it is run on.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:14am
- artemisia
  
  “Systemic racism” so just need a lot more money. Sorted.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:14am
- RockyJ
  
  It was fascinating watching the Covid Epidemic Response Select Committee on Zoom last night. The two Maori moko women banged on about only one question. This was “how much money was going in to Maori only Covid programmes?”
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep Debbie Ngarewa Packer was very upset that only $25M out of a pool of $137M had gone to Maori Health providers…
    
    By my maths that’s about 18% of the Covid-health budget, which seems pretty damn generous, considering that many Maori are just as likely to use the general health services.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:05am
    - RockyJ
      
      I actually think senior Maori have no interest in real on the ground improvement for Maori. They want Maori failure to keep the money stream flowing.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:49am
      - curry4me
        
        RockyJ: That is precisely the case. Where would the new Beemer, and six figure salary come from otherwise? What would hapen to all the cool huis?
        
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        August 25, 2021 3:39pm
- G152
  
  Think of it as evolution in action.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:30am
  - Nickc2
    
    The Darwin theory?
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:26am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Kate is absolutely right. At some point Maori and Pasifika have to step up and actually take advantage of the resources placed before them.
  
  This applies to far more than a Vaccine.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:31am
  - kowtow
    
    Or put another way ;
    
    step up and take personal responsibility for own your choices ( like the rest of us are expected to do)
    
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    August 25, 2021 8:58am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori who feel aggrieved should take it up with Nanaia Mahuta. Isn’t there a single brain to be found among them?
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:34am
- alex Masterley
  
  I, and my family, recieved our first jabs yesterday. I did have a booking at the Epsom centre, but that was cancelled and transfered to the Airport Oaks Centre.
  When we got there the centre was taking drive ins as well as booked appointments.
  There is nothing stopping some-one hopping into their car and driving in.
  The problem is, as I see it, that many cannot be bothered to get off their well padded arses and do anything.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:43am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  I am so over all this covid lockdown nonsense.
  
  As for maori Pacific Islanders, they were prioritized, but my guess is that they are hanging out for a payment, it will come.
  
  Say $500 when you turn up to get the jab.
  
  Meanwhile the rest of the World is slowly giving up on elimination.
  
  At some stage we will have to as well, we can’t lockdown like North Korea.
  
  And as soon as we do, open up, it will come.
  
  Sweden is looking to like they made the right call.
  
  But our Government will never, ever admit that they got it wrong and cost the Country hundreds of billions of dollars. Never, ever admit that they then made mistakes that they let the virus in and cost the Country even more.
  
  Never, ever admit that they have used this fake pandemic to push their communist ideology.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:47am
  - dcrane
    
    Sweden has vitually no deaths for the past month and a half, even though they have Delta there…
    
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+covid+deaths
    
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    August 25, 2021 2:45pm
- Ruahine
  
  This is actually the reason that Ardern is pushing this ‘Elimination’ Policy because her voting base does not want to get vaccinated. It is too lazy to get vaccinated or even the best one that I have heard is that the vaccine is not a Maori vaccine but a Pakeha vaccine.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:57am
  - PhilBest
    
    Maori science is equal to Pakeha science – RACIST!
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:14am
  - kowtow
    
    Entirely agree .
    
    It’s also why she won’t mandate a vax passport .
    
    Sadly though when the borders do open a hell of a lot of fat , elderly and sick folk will be bowled by this thing , vaxxed or otherwise.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:14am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Hmmm, wasn’t it Labour that provided KFC to Maori and Islanders to get them on buses to voting stations? Perhaps Arden and Robertson are thinking of that again to up the vaccination stats.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:58am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Once upon a time KFC was an abbreviation for Kentucky Fried Chicken. But in 2021 it stands for Kai For Cuzzies.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:26am
  - coge
    
    The KFC Vax Pack?
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:48am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu – “Cactus Kate not too impressed with Maori and Pacific Islanders blaming white privilege for their low vaccination rates.”
  
  The Government will spend more than $56.5 million on a specific Māori response action plan. – stuff [1]
  
  Budget 2020: Māori to get $900m to deal with Covid-19 fallout
  The package includes $400m on Māori education, a $137m boost to Whānau Ora, and $200m on a Māori Employment Package targeted at the regions. – RNZ [2]
  
  Budget 2021: Māori to receive over $1 billion covering housing, health, reo initiatives [3] is more vague in terms of covid support.
  
  So two things may be happening here, as is usual to happen, it seems –
  1 – Pacific Islanders and Maori (and particularly the latter) taking the privileged position of emphasising how unprivileged they are, and
  2 – The Government setting aside funding but not actually delivering anything anyone can see for it.
  
  [1] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120473692/57m-to-be-spent-on-mori-coronavirus-response-package
  [2] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/416669/budget-2020-maori-to-get-900m-to-deal-with-covid-19-fallout
  [3] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/budget-2021-maori-to-receive-over-1-billion-covering-housing-health-reo-initiatives/P2ZHBDB72HQPC3ZJP5R372G6JU/
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:08am
- Inandout
  
  BY, even when we reach the magical 70% vaccinated the lock downs may (read will) continue. That should make you a tad angry.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:27am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  Read “We think brown people are incapable of making our decision for them”.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:37am
Yvette

Immunity?
“A target of 70-75 per cent vaccination to avoid future lockdowns and the cost that this imposes on every New Zealander is now not just urgent – it’s imperative” – Judith Collins

“New Zealand can’t do that. They were following an elimination strategy. They’re in lockdown. The way through is to get to those 70 per cent and 80 per cent marks [for vaccination] and open safely” – Scott Morrison, Australian Prime Minister
(Which may of course screw any New Zealand / Australia travel bubble anytime soon)

But is “herd immunity” a reality or even possible?
Even if an entire city like Auckland was fully vaccinated and an unvaccinated elder in some inner Auckland community is visited by a covid-positive relation from Picton or Kaikoura (examples picked at random) will the elder not likely contract the full disease – is “herd immunity” not just a myth dependent on circumstance and chance akin to Lotto?

Is it not a fact that at present the only protection to personally reduce the severity of contracting covid is to have the two doses yourself, and that may reduce any viral load you may pass on while infectious?

Collins seems to think 70-75 per cent vaccination will avoid future lockdowns.

Morrison said one only needed to look at what was happening in New Zealand, with an extended lockdown announced on Monday, to prove striving for Covid-zero was not a realistic option with the Delta strain.
“New Zealand can’t do that. They were following an elimination strategy. They’re in lockdown. The way through is to get to those 70 per cent and 80 per cent marks [for vaccination] and open safely,” he said.

It is not apparent what “open safely” is actually “open” to, but both Collins and Morrison need to explain how they think 70 to 80 percent vaccination works.
__________

“Many of our frontline workers are having to turn up to their jobs without vaccination – 35% of port workers are still totally unvaccinated and more than 3,000 Auckland hospital workers have yet to have a single dose. Many of our essential workers in shops and supermarkets are yet to be vaccinated.
– Judith Collins http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/5/391628

The number “yet to be inoculated”, actually 3,201, is of an estimated total 31,572 health workforce, so 89.9% are vaccinated with at least one dose and two doses are only a few percent behind. But her mention of the “3,000 Auckland hospital workers” is in a negative context – rather than vaccination well beyond Judith Collins’s 70–75% range
But I guess that fits with my contention “herd immunity” is a Lotto – whether you get one of the 3,201 unvaccinated workers aiding you, and let alone the chance she or he is covid-positive.

But that is the part Judith does not explain – she can not negatively mention 3000 workers and at the same time (if she worked it out) commend their overall group vaccination rate as well above what she recommends.

Someone please explain group immunity and if it is even possible with delta.
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August 25, 2021 8:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’m not sure Judith understands much more about the way the vaccine works than jacinda. She needs to say clearly that elimination is impossible.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:41am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  The 70-80% target has nothing to do with herd immunity, it is the governments goal to implement vaccines 1 small group at a time because a mandate to vaccinate everyone will cause resistance.
  
  Once the 70-80% is achieved the government will view these people as being on “their side” and they’re correct, those who are vaccinated already will apply peer pressure to those who are not. The remaining percentage unvaxed will be blamed for any future lockdowns etc etc.
  
  This is basic human psychology.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:47am
  - stewmar
    
    The Government doesn’t have a target
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:13am
    - Tall Man
      
      It sure does …. Re-election.
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:16am
      - artemisia
        
        Labour will never say it, even behind closed doors, but suspect their target is not re-election but a cosy term or two on the opposition benches. Ms Ardern has specifically said Labour is keen on policies that stick, ie free money so embedded a different government would not be able to successfully campaign on reversing them. It has been successful in the past (working for families, interest free student loans).
        
        Shouting from the sidelines is a lot more fun than fixing the serious problems and divisions left behind. Certainly more fun than having to stop being kind in favour of years of austerity.
        
        Karma would be a Green / Labour government with a bare cupboard and Grant Robertson as Prime Minister.
        
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        August 25, 2021 12:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How long before the vaccinated sheep will be snitching on those who are not vaccinated?
    1930s Germany shit
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:25am
    - virtualmark
      
      Nope.
      
      But once the 70% or so of us are vaccinated then the political pressure we will exert will make re-opening the borders inevitable.
      
      At which point Covid is going to move through the entire population, within a year.
      
      It will be up to each person to decide where they want their immune system to be when they’re exposed.
      
      If you’re unvaccinated you’re 29x more likely to be hospitalised, and a larger multiple again more likely to die.
      
      But everyone can make their own decision.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:45am
      - krazykiwi
        
        If you’re unvaccinated you’re 29x more likely to be hospitalised, and a larger multiple again more likely to die.
        
        I have not seen any evidence to support that assertion, or rather the quantum. The hospitalisation and mortality risk for any individual is hugely impacted by age and a raft of comorbidities – one of which is anxiety level. This personal risk calculator is an interesting attempt to shed some light on this.
        
        Further, while there is now conclusive proof of the level of protection from infection diminishing over time, there is little to prove that protection from serious illness and death does similarly diminish. This is worth watching for.
        
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        August 25, 2021 9:54am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Thanks for letting me make my own decision. Now can you tell socialist Jaspinda this is what many want and can she kindly just fuck off?
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:07am
      - virtualmark
        
        krazykiwi,
        
        The 29x rate is from a CDC report published in the last 24 hours. See https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm?s_cid=mm7034e5_x
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:10am
      - Liberal Cliche
        
        Delta has an R0 factor of about 8 which means 100% of the population vaccinated and masked is not enough to stop it.
        
        In context the R0 of the 1918 flu was 1.4-2.4.
        
        An R0 of 5.6 would require 90% of the population vaxed and masked to stop it.
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:22am
      - krazykiwi
        
        .
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:56am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Thanks for the link. From it:
        
        On July 25, infection and hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons were 4.9 and 29.2 times, respectively, those in fully vaccinated persons
        
        So it’s not 29% for everyone as you intimated, but rather a range.
        
        Further, even the lower end of that range doesn’t seem to align with the data coming out of Israel, UK and other places. Even adjusting for vaccination rates being skewed towards the more at risk, the suggestion that at least 5x the number of unvaccinated people are being hospitalised vs the vaccinated doesn’t look supported by data in those countries.
        
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        August 25, 2021 10:58am
      - PhilBest
        
        https://chriswaldburger.substack.com/p/bombshell-uk-data-destroys-entire
        
        From the 1st of February to the 2nd of August, the UK recorded 742 Delta deaths (yes, the dreaded Delta has not taken that much life).
        
        Out of the 742 deaths, 402 were fully vaccinated. 79 had received one shot. Only 253 were unvaccinated.
        
        The report is here.
        
        https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf
        
        Furthermore: (bottom of page 18)
        
        402 deaths OUT OF 47,008 cases in vaccinated; 253 deaths OUT OF 151,054 cases in unvaccinated.
        
        Draw your own conclusions.
        
        And 742 deaths, in any case, must put Delta somewhere down around 40th place for cause of mortality in the UK
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:42am
      - virtualmark
        
        Ummm, no.
        
        This study found that unvaccinated people are 4.9x more likely to be *infected* than vaccinated people, and 29x more likely to be *hospitalised*.
        
        Re the absolute numbers of infections in unvaccinated vs vaccinated people I recommend https://youcanknowthings.com/2021/07/21/some-vaccinated-people-are-getting-covid-what-does-this-mean/ Caution, it’s quite long and there’s math.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:47am
      - krazykiwi
        
        virtualmark, you are correct. I apologise. My comment on the stated rate not matching other real world data stands.
        
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        August 25, 2021 12:30pm
    - oldfella
      
      Our own version of East Germany’s secret police:
      “Te StaziSnitch”.
      
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      August 25, 2021 9:56am
- Clownworld
  
  When politicans became medical experts and medical experts became political influencers we were well on our way to mass psychosis.
  
  When changing the everyday meaning of words overnight by righteous all knowing social justice warriors rather than natural evolution of words over time, to appease their self inflicted sense of misguided guilt, we lost the way of meaningful communication and begsn rhe descent into us and them.
  
  Losing communication it starts a rendering of the social fabric , where we can no longer understand each other without resorting to partisan sides.
  
  When censorship requires total compliance to a given moral, ideaological, social constructed view and free voices are excommunicated from town squares and digital platforms, you know the mass propaganda is supreme.
  
  There is now one source of truth. To believe otherwise is to become a pariah. The mob rule demand compliance or else.
  
  So when you ask about herd immunity, remember the definition was changed recently overnight. Immunity now is only to be achieved via vaccine. This is a lie. Herd immunity can be achieved naturally, it requires time and exposure and most importantly a healthy society with some people to have great immune systems.
  
  An obese , unhealthy diets, lacking exercise, sleep deprived, stressed, anxious, fearful society with individuals is prone to not being able to naturally fight a new virus as easily as a healthy one. Vaccines can help people who are unhealthy or have existing low immunity or elder in age with lowered immune systems.
  Vaccines are an essential part of modern medical life but only work in certain situations for certain people, not for all people all the time.
  
  Vaccines are part of an answer to combatting viruses not the only sole answer.
  
  When did promoting healthy lives by improving natural immunity, protecting the vunerable with isolating measures and giving vaccines to targeted people not become a wise balancing strategy for the current situation?
  
  It all started with over reaction in China and mass psychosis from there. The virus was simply a catalyst for exposing the worst in humanity – corruption ,lies, greed and needless death, destruction of economies and supply chains.
  
  Hope would require a return to open debate, free speech and less reliance on governments who are meant to serve the people, not dictate every movement, word, action and behaviour to the people.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:33am
Tauhei Notts

A picture tells a thousand words.
So when the NZ Herald wanted a photo of a prime minister in power during a severe health scare they brought out a photo of William F. Massey.
The significant part of the photo is that Massey is pictured severely lecturing school children.
Brilliant photo placement.
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August 25, 2021 8:09am
rjay

Great. Not only do we have a US president showing worrying signs of incapacity but the relief worker also has a disease characterised by memory loss.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/08/us-vice-president-kamala-harris-pushes-ahead-with-vietnam-trip-despite-mystery-health-incident.html
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August 25, 2021 8:10am
RockyJ

The reason we are fed as to why the government delayed ordering the Pfizer vaccine until late January 2021 just doesn’t add up.
We are told they were awaiting Medsafe NZ approval so they couldn’t pre order. But what if Medsafe had not approved Pfizer? The next vaccine to be approved was Astra Zeneca which was approved in July. Did that mean that they would have had to wait until July to order Astra Zeneca?
If the government says “Medsafe was always going to approve Pfizer” then why not order in advance?
Caught out by their own lie.
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August 25, 2021 8:11am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/449840/analysis-sluggish-vaccine-rollout-deserves-an-explanation
  
  “The sluggish pace is in part due to deliberate decisions by the government.
  Given the country’s then-Covid-free status, ministers chose not to follow other countries in rushing the vaccine approval processes, instead allowing regulator Medsafe to carry out a months-long rigorous assessment.”
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:43am
- virtualmark
  
  None of that is what happened. It’s so easy to construct conspiracies if you just ignore the reality …
  
  We secured commitments from Pfizer, Astra-Zeneca etc in October 2020.
  They were formalised in a contract in December 2020.
  Pfizer said there could be no deliveries to NZ until April 2021 – they were prioritising delivering to other countries that had more urgent clinical needs.
  That meant it didn’t matter whether MedSafe approved the vaccine in January, February or March 2021 … we still weren’t getting any until April.
  So MedSafe said “Why don’t we hold off the formal approval till March, because by then we’ll have a lot more information on effectiveness, side-effects etc to base our approval off”.
  
  Rational people making rational decisions. Not mouth-breathers panicking themselves into conspiracies.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:50am
  - virtualmark
    
    Noting … in the end Pfizer were able to deliver earlier than they had (conservatively) indicated. I think the first shipments might have come in in February.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:13am
  - RockyJ
    
    The first order was placed 29 January. That was the point at which NZ was committed. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-defends-ordering-first-batch-of-pfizer-vaccines-on-january-29.html
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:35am
    - virtualmark
      
      There’s a difference between contractual commitments and purchase orders.
      
      We secured our vaccines in October 2020. We knew volumes and a pricing calculation. At that point we were in Pfizer (and AZs and J&Js) delivery schedules.
      
      The contract was formally signed in December 2020. Standard for the contract to follow the negotiation and the internal approvals process (Cabinet).
      
      The first shipment was in February 2021. There has to be accounting paperwork for that shipment … so everyone knows who and how much to pay. So a purchase order is raised, **but only once we know the actual volume and price of the units in that specific shipment**.
      
      The purchase orders are accounting records linked to each shipment, to initiate the payment process. That is all.
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:56pm
      - RockyJ
        
        Bullshit. In fact that chain the prior agreements would have been on terms only. It would not be until an order is issued that there would be an obligation to deliver.
        What was Hipkins defending in relation to 29 January?
        
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        August 25, 2021 4:18pm
      - virtualmark
        
        RockyJ … have you ever dealt with complex legal contracts? And with the accounts payable function in a large organisation?
        
        We signed a contract for more than 10 million doses, but that doesn’t mean MBIE straight away sent off a purchase order for 10 million doses. These are not widgets sitting on a shelf waiting for us to order. So you wait until the supplier can confirm how many they’re able to deliver in this batch, and what the actual cost on the day will be for this batch. Then you send them a purchase order for that delivery batch that matches that information.
        
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        August 25, 2021 5:41pm
  - dcrane
    
    If we were denied vaccines by Pfizer by that crazy logic (crazy since obviously the border was leaky), the government should have publicized this to put pressure on them, and/or moved to order from the other manufacturers immediately. There was always plenty of reason to judge that a vaccine with somewhat lower “effectiveness” was much better than no vaccine, for those at high risk of covid.
    
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    August 25, 2021 2:24pm
    - virtualmark
      
      To me the problem is that the Government’s PR people chose to go with the “we’re at the front of the queue” spin. That was never the case, and so was always going to create this sort of anger at unmet expectations.
      
      The “Hey, we’re doing so well at keeping Covid out that we have to wait for our vaccines” maybe isn’t an easy sell. But at least it’s the truth and would have lined up with the facts on the ground.
      
      Meanwhile the opposition (any political opposition, not specifically National in this situation) would always politic with the opposite line of whatever you said. That’s political life.
      
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      August 25, 2021 6:21pm
artemisia

Public confidence in Wellington City Council’s decision-making plunges by almost half

Issues raised around public safety, councillors dysfunction, infrastructure, vanity projects. Minor issues.

Not to worry though – the mayor says. “He [the mayor] said the mixed results showed Wellingtonians were “mostly satisfied with what its council is doing”, although there was room for improvement.

Or not, actually. Anyway, we voted for them so got what we wanted. Right?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/126164359/public-confidence-in-wellington-city-councils-decisionmaking-plunges-by-almost-half
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August 25, 2021 8:13am
- Prince
  
  14% Rate increase says they will all be turfed out next year, and so they should be,
  Cancel all the vanity projects, free buses, closing down central city and focus on one thing – water.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:07am
Liberal Cliche

We are witnessing the birth of a new religion.

Baptism = vaccines
Hijab = masks
Priests = scientists
Tenets = Covid guidelines
Saints = Bloomfeild, Ardern,Siouxsie
Heretics = anti-vax
Holy communion = booster shots

Adherents of this religion usually claim they “follow the science” however this is not true. Simple science based questions make them irate.

For Example: “why would people who have anti-bodies from natural immunity need a vaccine?”

They are not looking to engage in the scientific method. They are merely demanding you you acquiesce to their religion.
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August 25, 2021 8:17am
- kowtow
  
  Submission.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Yes and here’s more actual science: some doctors have tested antibodies after the first jab and found the levels all over the place in different people. They can be sky-high in some, so why make the second jab mandatory for those people? This is most often the case for children. Too many antibodies can be harmful. Repeat jabs and booster shots need to be based on antibodies tests, otherwise as you say, this is not science at all. It is just a jackboot coming down on human faces for the sake of it.
  
  Another piece of actual science: D-dimer tests to show blood clotting in process. Doctors have stated that more than 50% of jabbed people have a positive D-dimer. For saying so, and for even getting the tests done in the first place, they are being censured. Again. This is not science. Doing D-dimer tests IS science. Doing antibodies tests IS science.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:20am
- H. Upmann
  
  Yes, very true and the parallel is the Climate “Science”religion.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:38am
Paulus

My second jab yesterday in Tauranga Central brilliant by all participants.
Worked like clockwork again.
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August 25, 2021 8:23am
- WellingtonBFF
  
  I had mine yesterday under Level 4. After I was allowed to leave I asked if I got a card or record and was met with a ‘we’re not giving them out in Level 4’. I thought that was very odd. The nurse who changed gloves between patients could surely have written the details on a card. Just does not seem right. They must enter the data somewhere but we know how good public sector computer systems are. What if there is no record. Am I vaccinated or not?
  
  Did you get a record?
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:49am
  - MCos
    
    I’m a little surprised.
    However.
    If that was your first jab I’m sure you’ll be able to get one after your second one in six weeks time.
    If Wellington in still in Lev 4 at that stage there will be unrest in the streets, for sure.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:33am
  - virtualmark
    
    Was it your first jab or your second?
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:56am
    - WellingtonBFF
      
      First – but interesting to see second jab people also not getting it. It seems a bit OTT and not really best vaccination practice. I can’t see there is any added risk if the nurse filled it out. There was no waiting list when I went in.
      
      Hopefully all will be sorted when I get my second, if we are out of lockdown by then, but I’m not holding my breath!!
      
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      August 25, 2021 10:51am
      - PhilBest
        
        Black market fake ones are coming, apparently. Maybe in NZ even the actually vaccinated are going to be glad of them!
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:44am
      - virtualmark
        
        The people at the GP said that we got to have the card after our second shots.
        
        So I just took a photo of the card after my first shot.
        
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        August 25, 2021 11:53am
  - Taieri
    
    Had my second jab on Saturday. The record card was duly updated by the vaccinator.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:17am
  - NoFax
    
    If you need proof of vaccine for travel then you can request it from the MOH: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-requesting-proof-vaccination-overseas-travel
    
    I did this and got it in about 2-3 working days.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:27am
  - greybeard
    
    I had my 2nd jab yesterday, asked for my card to be updated, was told they could not handle it, eventually got date and time added but not 2nd batch number.
    So I then went to MoH website ( below ) and requested a vaccination letter .
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-requesting-proof-vaccination-overseas-travel
    
    You could try that .
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:28am
artemisia

Covid-22? Maybe, maybe not. But it is a risk and our government needs to have it on the risk plan. There is a risk plan, isn’t there?
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August 25, 2021 8:24am
Ehlana

For some reason, I thought this government funded ad was aimed straight at our various Maori, minority and diverse communities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcIQATtAkS0

Perhaps the government could borrow some ideas from the Cook Islands, who have now achieved as close to total immunisation as I think anyone will ever get.
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August 25, 2021 8:25am
- jp_1983
  
  As yes – haven’t seen that advert for a while.
  Something something pride ,fall
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:28am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  They are waiting for the payment.
  
  You cant force them to have it that would be colonial oppression.
  
  Once everyone else is vaccinated, they can bring out an inventive payment for the rest, say $500 when jabbed.
  
  It will come, first the Maori élite have to be paid off, then the slaves, then the next round of TOW claims can start.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:55am
- Littletramp
  
  Perhaps the lack of effectiveness of the radio and TV ads being directed at minority groups, is that they are not comprehending the message being delivered at a 4 year old level in “pidgeon” English.
  What is that about?
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:59am
Clyde

For those that are interested in the big picture of what the Government is doing with 3 waters, the Mayor of Westland has been doing a great job in keeping his community informed. Here is his latest video https://youtu.be/aRXgxCKa46w
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August 25, 2021 8:26am
- Ruahine
  
  Clyde.
  Cactus Kate has a great piece about this.
  https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/08/maori-playing-dumb-v-golden-child.html
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:03am
Maggie Pie

Had a good long chat with my partner’s mum last night.
Realised we haven’t seen her for a week! Sounds like she’s coping alright. Had deliveries from Farros, Blackmarket, My Food Bag etc, plus made a couple of early visits to NW. So not going short.
Even quite enjoying the lockdown. Reckons she gets sick of hearing others in the Village moaning about their aches and pains anyway.

The one thing she did say…was the number of Txts she’s seen from other residents wondering who the new ‘Minister for Oldies’ is?
They haven’t heard anything since Tracy Martin quit. Been nothing extra for those on a pension to help them thru winter like there was last year.
For a joke I told her it was Phil Twyford. Well, should of heard her….. “Not that bloody clown-shoe?!!”
God, thort she might have had a heart attack…had to let her know I was only kidding. LOL!

Anyway, sounds like some on those on Super may be doing it a bit hard this time round. Plenty of money for the Mongrel Mob and the Taliban.

Come back Winnie she reckons 🙁
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August 25, 2021 8:27am
- Biscuit
  
  Really, Maggie?
  
  I hate to give any praise to Jacinda’s mob but she has continued on with Winston First’s winter payments.
  
  Your Mum is hooked up to the net – get her to subscribe to this – https://www.superseniors.msd.govt.nz/
  
  It’s a monthly update on Oldies matters from Minister for Seniors Dr Ayesha Verrall.
  
  If she and her mates truly aren’t getting any ‘extra’ winter payments she should holler very loudly – but the mail I got before this year’s lot began said that if I’d got them last year I would automatically be getting them this year. And that has transpired…
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:00am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Just had a chat to Ma about your response Bikkie.
    No way would she ever subscribe to ‘superseniors’.
    Has never even used her SuperGoldCard after spending 40k on a facelift. LOL!!
    
    Sure, they all still get the measly 50 or 60 bucks a fortnight to help with the powerbill, but she was saying in the last lockdown Winston doubled it!
    This year…. SFA.
    
    It’s not that SHE relies on it…her bill is always around 4 hundy a month this time of year. It’s just the other residents, whose apartments are on the south-side of the complex, that complain about the cold.
    
    She reckons this gubmints mantra is…’Let ’em die” There’s very few votes from that quarter anymore.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:08am
    - Biscuit
      
      Whatever, Maggie … but your partner’s Ma can hardly claim not to know who the relevant Minister is if she doesn’t avail herself of all the info out there!
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Dr Ayesha Verrall writes piffling dribble to people a 1/10 of her age. Not all “seniors” are 3 years old.
    The respect coming from the new Ministers is appalling as is their content.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:21pm
- Tall Man
  
  There is never a situation where “what’s in it for wynston” is a viable solution.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:14am
Critical Thinker

“Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” – Marie Curie

Over 50 Scientific Studies Conclude Masks Do Nothing to Prevent the Spread of Illness, So Why Do People Keep Claiming They Work? ?

The science on mask efficacy is settled and has been for a very long time. Contrary to popular belief, every single RCT ever performed on mask usage and prevention of infection for laboratory-confirmed influenza, the common cold, or other respiratory viruses shows that masks are ineffective.

So why do people keep claiming that they do?

https://www.dailyveracity.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/States-with-masks-vs-states-without-masks-1.jpg

Prior to mask mandates, surgical masks were infrequently worn in hospitals and other medical facilities. Facemasks were mainly only used in operating rooms or for visiting seriously ill patients in order to prevent spit or droplets into open wounds and to partially protect against serious diseases which are much larger in size than coronavirus or influenza.

The vast majority of gold-standard scientific research compiled over multiple decades, conclude masks are completely ineffective at preventing the spread of respiratory illnesses.

So why do many of those in “authority” now force us to wear them? ?

https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work/

NSW CHO: Indoor mask wearing and tyrannical restrictions may be required for years. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1nMpp0gwNA
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August 25, 2021 8:32am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Mask-wearing is a symbol of compliance and the “correct attitude.”
  To authoritarians, these qualities are paramount.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:41am
  - kowtow
    
    Didn’t Chippie say something along the lines of “mask wearing to remind people there’s a plague on” or words to that effect , rather than it being a supposed health measure……..
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:12am
    - The Boss
      
      The health measure is to spread your legs
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:34am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  You are a Critical thinker and right on the money.
  Face nappies are 100% ineffective against any virus, even a N95 is not going to give you the guarantee one might be seeking.
  Any person flogging these as a panacea to actually protect people from tiny virus particle are snake oil salesmen, giving false hope and endangering people with false hope.
  They may come full circle and become useful for what they are designed for, blood spills.
  As they police ramp up and belt the tripe out their citizens, they will assist with blood spills.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:20am
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Yes, look at the mask you have to wear while spray painting for molecules that are 1000 times bigger than a virus.
    
    The mask is the symbol of the religion. There is 0 science to it at all.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:00am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      For many persons the masks are a present danger as they can reduce the oxygen flow to their bodies. The functionally may assist CO2 to be re-breathed in again. That can induce a reduced awareness state.
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:26pm
- Durden
  
  The rules about mandatory scanning and masking all the time are stupid.
  
  I have been getting dirty looks on the street when I am on my walks sans a mask. Even if I give a wide berth, more than 2m, when I come across other walkers. I don’t wear it because I have I often have to wipe my nose with a tissue when I am walking at vigorous speed.
  
  Professor Andrew Geddes at Faculty of Law at Otago has clearly explained that it is not mandatory to wear masks when outside.
  
  Listen to him at 2 minutes into this audio https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018809530
  
  This wrong view in public minds has been created by Jacinda — “pop on your masks when you go out” and others like her.
  
  Its also clear from his discussions further that the mandatory scanning requirement is going to be a complete clusterf*** with all the illogical exclusions—supermarkets and dairies.
  
  Anyway not much an owner of the premise can do to police if you simply point your phone at the bar code, pretend to scan, and walk in.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:57am
  - MCos
    
    How do you know you’re getting dirty looks if everyone is wearing a mask?
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:33pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      The eyes. Obviously.
      
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      August 25, 2021 5:16pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Guidance on mask use in community settings
  
  At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no
  masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI
  
  Pop quiz. Which organisation published this?
  A. WHO
  B. WHO
  C. WHO
  
  Yes, you’re right!
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:15pm
I remember when

Science and Matauranga Maori.
Why is there even an argument.
12/12/2017: Science and Matauranga Maori do not seek to do the same thing. Matauranga Maori is Knowledge – sciencelearn.org.nz.
You can understand that stars appear in different parts of the sky without knowing why or about orbits.
You can understand Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter without understanding Climate Science.
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August 25, 2021 8:36am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “You can understand Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter without understanding Climate Science.”
  
  Not “understand” but “feel in tune with” or “be sensitive towards.”
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:09am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How the Govt can save money – saline is cheap……
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August 25, 2021 8:42am
JibberJabber

Always…

One of the first things the left does is take away the right of other people to make their own choices.
Thomas Sowell
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August 25, 2021 8:55am
Tony Stuart

RNZ reports on another failure in the health sector:

The Nurses Organisation says nurses who live with close contacts are being asked to turn up for work at Auckland’s DHBs.

The union says it is deeply concerned by a Ministry of Health exemption issued last week for essential health workers meaning they don’t need to fully self-isolate, as long as certain conditions are met.

The NZNO also says in a survey of some of its members, 60 percent reported still experiencing issues getting either enough PPE or the right fitting masks.

The Nurses Organisation kaiwhakahaere Kerri Nuku told Nine to Noon it felt like the DHBs were cutting corners.

Nuku said the government last week made changes to Section 70 of the Health Act 1956 with the purpose of preventing the outbreak and spread of Covid-19.

“What it says in an ordinary situation is that if you’ve been a close contact then you should go home, self-isolate and ensure that you’ve had a Covid test.

“This direction applies to general members of the public but where there is a difference is whether it applies to essential health workers.”

The amendments to the Act mean a nurse who is considered a close contact can return to work if they have been fully vaccinated, the close contact of any household members has returned a negative test and no household members have symptoms of Covid-19.

However, Nuku said nurses in Auckland were being called back into work before these requirements were met and she felt like the DHBs were cutting corners.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/449904/nurses-living-with-close-contacts-asked-to-turn-up-for-work-union

The blame for this lies fairly and squarely with Health Minister Andrew Little, and ultimately, with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. Gaffes like these are leaving both health workers and patients potentially exposed to Covid 19.

Perhaps it’s time for a bit less hui and a whole lot more doey from our leaders.
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August 25, 2021 8:58am
- ABS4EVA
  
  This is Normal Labour LOGIC or Practice
  
  CINDY (NZ) and DAN (AUS)
  Sing from the same SONG Sheet
  
  As NZ Parliament has been shut down
  they are probably having a chitty chat on the tax payers coin as this is posted (they are buddies)
  
  ‘Absolute mismanagement’ by Andrews government as Delta spreads in Melbourne hospitals
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-dvb7lK0w4&t=23s
  
  Parts of Australian Hospitals being shut down
  because they DO NOT KNOW …
  What staff ARE or ARE NOT.. VAXED?
  
  This is the “Labour State” in Australia
  responsible for 90% of Aus COVID deaths + +
  
  So this far into this
  Common Sense would say VAX Hospital workers
  FAST
  
  Has that happened do they know ?
  NO
  
  No FINE the hell out of anyone you can and
  Complain because someone watched a
  SUNSET
  
  COVID will not be dealt with properly
  until LABOUR are removed from VICTORIA
  
  Parts of Australia are so poorly managed imho
  the ADF should have been sent in a long time
  ago to RUN EVERYTHING
  
  Most Australian would have more freedom under
  Martial Law than the current
  
  CLOWN SHOW
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsPCCTvxr4
  
  Until the ADF are Running AUS
  NZ will still be sent infectious people
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:22am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    The Down tick will be a Troll Employed by
    the Victorian Labour
    SPIN MACHINE
    
    The money they spend on ANti Social Media
    Spinning their BS is staggering
    
    Hi Big Brother of the CCP
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Has the Minister of Health morphed into a physician with the attendant rights of the Chief Medical Officer of Health?
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:30pm
MrTips

If I’m going to be jabbed with anything, I want it to work (even a Bulgarian umbrella worked).

Pfizer is shit. AZ is worse.

Novovax will work but they’ve messed up the supply chain and regulatory part of it and so are delayed.

But now Valneva are on the scene . VLA-2001 is being trialed here in NZ and I’ve signed up for it. Why? Because its an inactivated whole COVID SARS-COV-2 vaccine that will generate a more comprehensive immune profile. 2 shots, 1 month apart. And it may be better at averting variant escape.

It makes more sense and has a good safety profile, plus as the article link states, they’ve started their MHRA approval process. I would ACTIVELY encourage NZers to find out more about this vaccine and pressure our govt and MoH to secure immediate supplies, should the MHRA application succeed. We don’t want to be Israel.
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August 25, 2021 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Have you tried saline?
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:03am
  - Ruahine
    
    Actually Lemsip will probably be just as good.
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:07am
  - rangitoto
    
    The MoH think it’s good:
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/coronavirus-five-aucklanders-may-have-received-saline-instead-of-covid-19-vaccine.html
    
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    August 25, 2021 9:54am
- ABS4EVA
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWPbvzRMLTI&t=36s
  
  Breakthrough cases & the shift in the media narrative
  
  The Reality is the VAX program is a joke
  Contact Tracing is a joke and preparing the hospital system is also a joke
  
  your out break came from Aus
  
  Check IF it was a BREAKTHROUGH CASE
  that delivered DELTA to NZ
  
  Break through Cases
  
  Break through Cases
  
  Break through Cases
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:06am
- Critical Thinker
  
  “Pfizer is shit. AZ is worse.”
  
  That is what the overwhelming evidence seems to be showing unfortunately ?
  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html
  
  Thanks for the heads-up on the new Valneva vaccine MrTips. It would be nice if there’s an actual effective vaccine that you don’t have to get a booster shot every 6 months for it to kind of work.
  
  How do we go about signing up for the Valneva trial here in NZ?
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:15am
  - MrTips
    
    Southern Clinical Trials are doing it at 10 sites across NZ. They are only looking for people over 56yr at present but have another trial in anyone over 12yrs coming up. I’ve linked to the CHC info here, but one could check with sites closer to you if interested.
    https://sctrials.co.nz/site-locations/southern-clinical-trials-christchurch/#!/study/107
    
    And delta is going to escape all current vaccines according to this preprint :
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf
    
    No surprise there, hence my keenness for the Valneva.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:18am
    - PhilBest
      
      I wish someone was doing this, I would sign up for it, this is genius
      
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7685031/
      
      “…we propose the massive and passive immunization of the at-risk population via cohorting with individuals who have recently contracted SARS-CoV-2, but are deemed non-infectious albeit reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR)-positive. Testing RT-PCR positive would imply the continued spread of non-viable mRNA particles into the surroundings…”
      
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      August 25, 2021 11:47am
  - wally
    
    CT, try
    
    https://sctrials.co.nz/
    
    or
    
    https://pcrn.co.nz/our-network/lakeland-clinical-trials/
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:35am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I think that more recent and better analysed data overturns that conclusion. The key with the Israeli data is to age stratify the data and analyse it that way as the risk and vaccination profiles are very different at the different ages.
    
    I’ve seen reworked analyses that show that the Pfizer remains over 70% effective at six months though it does continue to apparently drop further over time.
    
    Not perfect, but better than nothing.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:08pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  I’d be quite willing to take the Russian Sputnik V jab. It’s one country where there doesn’t seem to be any problem at all. Also looks like Hungary are taking the Russian path.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:25am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The Sputnik developer presented fraudulent clinical data as part of the approval documentation. I would not take this.
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:02am
- kevn
  
  @Mr Tips… How did you register/signup for for the Valneva?
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:43am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting. Thanks for posting this MrTips.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:02am
YesMinister

Maybe Maori and PI have low vaccination rates for the same reason others do. They’re cynical to the obvious pressure which has accompanied precisely zero other experimental treatments, they’re uninterested in propaganda, and they don’t trust governments.

This is the problem with sending everybody home, forbidding them to work, and injecting them with a Orwellian sounding “jab”, when you get an outbreak and everybody in that outbreak is more or less demonstrably fine, people lose their fear.

The more they harp on about injecting mRNA into me, the less I’m likely to do it. My chances of survival, and yours, are astronomically high when I catch it, and yes, I will catch it.

There’s a statistically much greater chance of getting covid and not even noticing than there is of dying of it. A few outliars at the worst case scenario end of things are being presented as the most likely outcome to a gullible nation which is more interested in lol’ing about how much alcohol they’ve soaked their feeble brains with during the incursion into their freedom which is meekly accepted, and even gratefully submitted to, than understanding odds.

I note they’re not bothering with antibody tests, even though there’s a real chance many NZ’ers have already caught it thanks to the shoddy MIQ system leaking it into the community repeatedly.

The SI remains immobile, unproductive, and under house arrest a week on with absolutely zero cases of this boogeyman disease.

I’m over it. And I don’t blame Maori and PI’s for not leaping onto the bandwagon dominated mainly by globalists and useful idiots who parrot grotesque phrases like “jabs in arms” as if they’re auditioning for the 1984 live action roleplay.
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August 25, 2021 8:59am
- Ed Snack
  
  Your chances of dying aren’t really “astronomical”, depending on your age and health status, it could be as high as a 20% chance of dying (>80 and with significant co-morbidities).
  
  Under 20 and healthy the astronomical adjective is probably right.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:14pm
ABS4EVA

So now the Enemies of the USA
and the Free world.

Have been shown the lights are on but…
No one is home.

How Long Now before they have a CRACK

Will they sink a US Ship or
Just Take Taiwan

or will the pursue a strategy of initmidation
and aggression further south
with Australia

Spies Spy ships threatening to missile strike
will it all be cooked up as Tewwowist attack
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August 25, 2021 9:00am
fightingtemeraire

Ridiculous LD rule. Wed is the day my little dog goes to Doggy Day Care to play with her little mates.

Kennels is in the country and there are usually 2 or 3 Humans there at one time dropping off the most important member of the family.

DDC is cancelled owing to Level 4.

I see PFD and Co arent getting a good press in the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph in the UK.
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August 25, 2021 9:01am
ScottAndrews

A government of total incompetence

So, like many small business owners this week, I began the process of applying for some sort of Covid support payment.

My Business essential provides consultancy to International Schools around the world. Pre-Covid, it meant me visiting these schools in person. In the Covid era it means a substantial reduction in business and some ongoing online work using various video-conferencing tools, plus I have picked up some internal work within NZ working face-to-face.

Imagine my surprise when IRD turned down my application – on the basis that because my income had shrunk so much under Covid last year and I haven’t filed a recent tax return that shows the improvement in my business this year. Therefore, in the view of IRD my business is not employing me, even though I work for my business for at least 40-50 hours a week.

So essentially because I have suffered excessively from Covid, I cannot get a Covid support payment. Only a government of complete morons and total incompetents could devise a Covid Support Payment that you are ineligible for because you have seen too excessive a reduction in your business due to Covid.

Yes, it is true, “you cannot get a Covid support payment if your business has suffered too much”

Worst government ever!
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August 25, 2021 9:03am
Happychappy

I know this for a fact and it’s not misinformation about this Government or our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, the Chemist Warehouse has been waiting like many other Chemistsfor months to be able to give Vaccine Shots, and the Government wasn’t interested now they are being hammered about their truthfulness over the slowness of people getting the vaccine they have opened it up to several Chemists to help them get out of a pr of their own making.
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August 25, 2021 9:08am
Gravelroad

Inmates here getting a bit bored.
If we still had a scrabble or monopoly set we could get them out and start fighting.
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August 25, 2021 9:09am
- peterwn
  
  Make your own. When I was young we made our own board ‘Papaopoly’ (after Papakura) using local street names. Admittedly we used real Monopoly money, hotels and houses. Also had own rules – eg could start building as soon as you owned one street.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Other ‘own rules’ All fines went to the middle of the board. Landon ‘free parking’ and you win the pool
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ah, Monopoly and the arguments. Hiding money so as to not pay fines, forcing properties to be mortgaged so others could not buy them .Monopoly is a science!
  Same as jigsaw puzzles, find a corner piece and put it in your pocket. Then sit back and watch the fun.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:40am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yep, we had to cancel the playing of monopoly years ago due to unseemly competitive behaviour amongst the younger players.
    Some tipped over the playing boards in displays of anger and retribution.
    Some complained that capitalism wasn’t working for them.
    Others didn’t embrace the “be kind” concept.
    There was always a corporate wannabe who ended up with more money – which wasn’t “fair”.
    And then there was the crook who never seemed to end up in jail.
    
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    August 25, 2021 11:13am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Then the crooks – Get out of jail card. Auction it LOL
      
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      August 25, 2021 12:10pm
    - alloytoo
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poleconomy
      
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      August 25, 2021 1:38pm
- All_on_Red
  
  If you want battle then this is what you need.
  We’ve had games go on for days and the propaganda war can be epic (‘don’t attack me, attack him!)
  https://www.amazon.com/Hasbro-00044-Risk-Global-Domination/dp/B00000IWCX
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:48am
Ruahine

Things I have not read or heard from the MSM or Ministry of Health information.

So of the 148 cases of Covid in the community have they all been taken to a MIQ facility and likely to be there for 14 days? Are entire families or other close contacts taken to MIQ as well.
What medical treatment and /or medicines for Covid does one receive if one contracts the virus.
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August 25, 2021 9:17am
- miltonF
  
  What percentage of our 148 cases have been vaccinated?
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:19pm
Tauhei Notts

Mike Hosking.
New Zealand’s greatest commercial radio host. I have been thinking of Phil Shone and others.
I did the very detailed study this morning. He was on air for 26minutes 33 seconds in the hour from 7 to 8. The longest spell was the 8min 41 seconds interview with Grant Robertson.
Also, I did not hear any French, German or Greek spoken. The whole hour was in English.
Although his brilliance is only there for 44.25% of the time it is so much better than the fawning crap on taxpayer funded radio.
To do such a detailed analysis I had to listen very carefully. I was so impressed by Grant Robertson. I have been dismissive of him in the past but he is so far ahead of any other Labour Party caucus member. I imagine that in private he is tearing his hair out about the endless far cups in the Health Ministry.
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August 25, 2021 9:18am
- lifesgood
  
  Yeah, I agree, he is really, really good at bulls**t.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:46am
- Paulus
  
  I expect Robertson is still working out how to not publically drop his mistress in the poo so he can and still expects to take over when she either goes ro has a breakdown.
  He and his personal cohorts have been on to this for years
  – and will still not make it either,
  
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  August 25, 2021 2:12pm
I remember when

When is it Exaggeration, Disinformation, Misinformation, and when is it just a Lie.
Newshub TV item last night that seemed to have the aim of acceptance of the new Senior Analyst, Disinformation position.
Apparently someone (or more) has been sending people txts saying that the receiver has test positive for covid.
(Perhaps a Labour Party pamphlet deliverer during Level 4 lockdown.)
Ashley said you would always get a phone call if you tested positive.
Repeat it a couple of times to make certain it is clearly understood – then end of story.
But no, we then get a replay (did he score in the corner) of the Billy Te Kahika arrest – are there really no other ‘conspiracy theorists.’
Finally, use of the opportunity to emphasize the need for the unnecessary Senior Analyst, Disinformation.
Interestingly, ‘Spooky’ Baker appeared saying the the idea the flu was as bad as covid was “patently ridiculous.”
Covid was he said on average 15X to 20X more serious than the average flu season.
In the 2017/18 US influenza outbreak there were 80,000 deaths and 900,000 hospitalisations.
The latest total US covid deaths are about 646,700.
So perhaps 8x over 18 months rather than 1,200,000 (15X) or 1,600,000 (20X).
Is this misinformation.
In the same item Ashley compared us with Scotland and their 10,000 deaths.
However, while 10,000 is the number with Death Certificates that MENTION COVID, the total used in the breakdown of UK figures for Scotland is 8058.
Also although it is hard to get definite population figures Scotland have a larger population so the figure of 7500 used by Rodney Hide is probably closer.
If we use Sweden for comparison the total is around 7350-400.
These are supposed ‘experts’ who we can believe, part of the team of providers of “all that is truth”, so why do they use ‘worst possible case scenarios.’
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August 25, 2021 9:18am
- I remember when
  
  Incidentally, in the 2017/18 influenza season 180 children died which was considerably less than the 2009 season total of 358 deaths.
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:31am
Critical Thinker

Crikey!

Check out the new Australian tourism advertisement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozdu06E0WLE

I’m sure our Nu Tirani-Aotearoa-New Zealand regime is now hard at work to outdo our Aussie cuzzies advert ?
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August 25, 2021 9:22am
Mobile Michael

Richard Prebble’s column in the Herald is a devastating critique of Ardern and the Government’s failures that lead to the lockdown. Pity it’s paywalled, but it is here:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-coronavirus-richard-prebble-a-better-way-to-beat-the-virus/RGTP3DHRWNWQO7UKBUBRVKHCPA/
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August 25, 2021 9:26am
- kevn
  
  @Mob M… Shocking incompetence. Thank you R Prebble for exposing more flaws.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:38am
- Happychappy
  
  Is it any wonder why Scientists are happy to go along with Jacinda Ardern, Ashley Bloomfield and the Labour Government over the eradication of COVID-19 as their plan the money they must have made on this pandemic must be astronomical and who would want
  stop that gravy train from continuing.
  What’s good for New Zealands population should be what’s it’s all about, but its seems Jacinda Ardern’s need for power and dictatorship and the Scientists need to have their control on policy overrides the common sense that is needed for our economy to survive.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:54am
I remember when

Should we be getting a daily total of the number of covid positive cases in homes where someone has already tested positive.
How many have been found from a ‘casual’ visit to a testing station – not advised to go there.
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August 25, 2021 9:38am
Rusty

The Stones drummer Charlie Watts has died aged 81.
He was never interested in being a superstar celebrity like Jagger and Richards and according to people who knew him was a down to earth bloke who just happened to play drums in the most famous rock and roll band ever.
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August 25, 2021 9:45am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I read a story this morning that one night, while the band was on the road, Mick Jagger rang Charlie Watts in the middle of the night, and asked him “Where’s my drummer?”. Watts got out of bed, got dressed, went along to Jagger’s room, and when Mick came to the door, Charlie punched him in the face. He said to Mick “Don’t ever call me your drummer again. You’re my fucking singer!”
  
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  August 25, 2021 9:49am
  - Rusty
    
    Yes I read that story –funny
    
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    August 25, 2021 10:06am
- krazykiwi
  
  Wow. One has actually died. Most of them look like they died a decade ago.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:05am
  - Fletch
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ3pdWyUu94
    
    [Del Preston about Keith Richards in Wayne’s World 2]
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:19pm
kevn

@Tauhei… Robberson always seemed very keen on occupying the leaders throne. Maybe he still is but biding his time just now.
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August 25, 2021 9:51am
Ruawai

Great article by Graham Adams in yesterdays Herald about the influence of the Mormon religion on Jacinda’s style of politics, not so sure about the abuse of the right side of politics in the Steve Braunias article yesterday also in the Herald (links below to both articles).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/graham-adams-is-jacinda-ardern-the-messiah-or-just-a-very-crafty-politician/OX6JWIDJE2TA2RSCXVGMJVH77Q/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/steve-braunias-in-level-4-covid-lockdown-again-new-zealand-clings-to-luck/RWKM6HNNOLCILXBX2GSDPEOVHI/
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August 25, 2021 9:51am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Steve Braunias carries the twin burdens of being a rabid lefty and not being anywhere near as clever as he’s convinced he is.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:20am
- Muttonbird
  
  Grant Adams is just another bitter gammon upset about the Prime Minister being so popular.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:28am
  - Happychappy
    
    Shit that the kettle calling the pot , but that’s quite normal for hypocrite of your calibre Muttonbird.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:00pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Grant Adams may be everything you say he is, but the article was by Graham Adams, a different person altogether.
    
    Sometimes it’s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt, you gammon.
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:08pm
emmess

What happened to the anti-lockdown protesters in Australia was far more brutal than to the Springbok tour protesters in 1981.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPK1fwJ_WwE

Where is the outcry from the left?
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August 25, 2021 9:54am
- doggone7
  
  The left here or there? Surely the left here will leave Aussies to their own politics.
  
  And there are likely some here of all persuasions who think that Aussies beating other Aussies can’t be a bad thing.
  
  (Wonder how many who get arrested will be here soon as 501s.)
  
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  August 25, 2021 2:05pm
Critical Thinker

New Zealand Children Can Consent to Experimental Pfizer “Vaccine”

“As a 12 to 15-year-old, your parent or guardian’s permission is not required if your health care provider is confident you are deemed competent to give consent.” – Ministry of ~~Truth~~ Health

https://twitter.com/Zieleds/status/1429444453731762182

Covid deaths and serious illness are extremely rare among children. In the US, 430 children have died (out of 72M children). In the UK, 25 children have died (out of 12.7M) and almost half of those who died had complex pre-existing health conditions.

In Australia, there have been 7747 cases of covid in children under the age of 19. Only one of them has died. The person was a 15 year old boy who died of meningitis but had covid at the same time.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w

New Zealand Doctors Speak Out Against Experimental Pfizer Vaccine

https://www.bitchute.com/video/NaNMLIM9ve1y/
?
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August 25, 2021 10:00am
- graham
  
  When I went to that page, a pop-up box asked if the page answered my questions, and asked me to provide feedback if it did not.
  
  So I provided feedback:
  
  “This page does not explain why a 12-year-old is able to bypass their parents’ permission.”
  
  Sadly, no facility is provided for them to follow up with you.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:44am
- oldfella
  
  “As a 12 to 15-year-old, your parent or guardian’s permission is not required if your health care provider is confident you are deemed competent to give consent.” – Ministry of Health/Truth
  CT, call me cynical, but how long before the same decree is issued to allow 12 year old’s to make their own decision re taking puberty blockers? It would effectively prevent parents doing what parents are supposed to do – protect their under-age children from possible harm.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:07am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    It’s not a decree oldfella, it will soon be the law. The trojan horse of making it illegal to force someone attracted to the same sex of undergoing “conversion therapy” is being used to advance the trans agenda.
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:10pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  “As a 12 to 15-year-old, your parent or guardian’s permission is not required if your health care provider is confident you are deemed competent to give consent.” – Ministry of Truth Health
  
  Under what law is that?
  It would take an affirming Supreme Court ruling to be acceptable. Minors don’t have full rights.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:40pm
I remember when

LOCKDOWN:
The difference between being alive and living.
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August 25, 2021 10:12am
Lance

Nash was hilarious on Hosking’s show this morning.
He was being backed into a corner over his rather idiotic claims that Labour are saving people from death, even after they are vaccinated and refuting that other country’s are starting to laugh at us, when in the middle of an argument he blurts out “who would you rather have running the country, Jacinda or Judith Collins”.
So the cult of personality wins out over logic… yep, that about sums Labour up.
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August 25, 2021 10:16am
Loddenthinks

I’m sorry that we’ve lost a nurse, but given her decision-making skills I’m not sure it’s such a huge loss, and Darwin won’t be denied.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300390075/sand-collapsed-under-car-of-nurse-who-drowned-while-out-whitebaiting

Blood alcohol 4 times the legal limit, can’t back a trailer, shouldn’t be anywhere near the bank of a river yet parked with the bonnet sticking out over the water.
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August 25, 2021 10:18am
- cmm
  
  The stand out of this sad saga must surely be the stupidity of the coroner.
  
  ” Coroner Cunninghame recommended the Water Safety New Zealand and the New Zealand Fishing News pass on her comments.
  
  She also suggested there should be a better sign at Kairaki Beach explaining the dangers, and noted the Waimakariri District Council had already installed one.”
  
  Right. So this could all have been prevented by a wee sign…
  
  If a 62 year old waitebaiter doesn’t already know that water is dangerous then a wee sign isn’t going to make any difference.
  
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  August 25, 2021 10:35am
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
National Party accused of spreading misinformation and fear. Has to be the work of one Dr Shane Reti.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/coronavirus-scientists-correct-national-party-tweet-accused-of-spreading-misinformation-about-covid-19-vaccines.html
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August 25, 2021 10:19am
- westernScientest
  
  I think the misinformation there would be that NZ has excess vaccines?
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:41am
- Tall Man
  
  Pfftttt, semantics.
  
  ardern lies everyday and you love her. Who’s the numpty now?
  
  https://ysb.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/186E0CA7-7068-4017-B1EF-CE465A826425.jpeg
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:58am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Have a refresher:
  https://www.globalresearch.ca/jaccuse-governments-worldwide-are-lying-to-you-the-people-to-the-populations-they-purportedly-serve/5750650
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:44pm
  - Muttonbird
    
    Wow, full nut job.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:50pm
- MrTips
  
  Hey MuttonBird. Do you think Jacinda might apologise AGAIN to the Pacific community for failing to vaccinate them ? Instead, DELTA is having to do it for the Govt, but I’m sure you’ll agree it’s their least preferred option.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:54pm
Ian Boag

Yep. Today’s cases were infected a week or more ago. It’s a bit like trying to drive a car down a winding road using the rear vision mirror for navigation.

Got that one out of Michael Lewis’s resent book “The Premonition”. A good read about how the US reacted to all this as was happening.
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August 25, 2021 10:28am
WaynelSexton

Vaccines don’t work so we need MOAR vaccines!

http://www.yahoo.com/news/ultra-vaxxed-israel-debacle-dire-073840050.html
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August 25, 2021 10:33am
cmm

Stuff Big Read Banner: 5 AKL supermarkets on CV19 locations of interest!!

Well duh! People, positive or not, are going to supermarkets to get food. If a person tests positive then they have quite likely gone to a supermarket. I’m actually surprised the number is that low.

Since people are now locked down and should only be going out to the supermarket etc, we can surely expect that number to keep rising faster than other numbers because nobody is going to Mitre 10 etc.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300390536/live-covid19-five-auckland-supermarkets-named-as-covid-locations-of-interest-list-grows-to-464
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August 25, 2021 10:43am
- thirteenstars
  
  This is the perfect example of why the Zero COVID elimination strategy is a lie.
  
  You can lockdown as hard as you like. Force masks on everyone and make them contact trace at all times. You can use the police as jackbooted thugs to shut down protests, and you can spy on people who are spreading “disinformation”, but in the end people have to eat and access other essential services, and that’s where the weak links will always be.
  
  It’s a metaphor for the greater stupidity: that NZ can close its borders forever and every time a new variant pops up we go back into lockdown. There can be no toleration of any transmission which means vaccines become a part of the lie since they don’t prevent infection, their function being to reduce the severity of symptoms.
  
  Here’s the question: at a high level of vaccination, say 70%, is the Labour/National plan to allow community transmission? if not then, then when? When will we accept the virus is endemic in the rest of the world and start behaving in accordance with that fact?
  
  The rest of the world has moved on. New Zealand is now engaging in the most wasteful and dangerous fortress mentality, a mentality that is a dead end.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:10am
  - kevn
    
    @13… ardern is just doubling down.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:17pm
thirteenstars

ACT TV, this week on YouTube at 7pm.

ACT takes the opportunity of parliament being suspended to run its own live 30-minute show to discuss the issues of the day.

Tune in here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/ACTNewZealand/videos

Wonder what all those National MPs are doing at 7pm…
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August 25, 2021 10:51am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5SaP87RIE

Moon Jae-in is suddenly a Japan fan because the reality is a bitch.

He trying to cool things between Japan and Korea. He is unpopular because of being pro-Chinese. His new Chinatown project is unpopular. Koreans increasingly dislike China.
His conservative opponents are pro Japan. The Suga government is waiting for a change of government in South Korea. [6:04.]
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August 25, 2021 10:57am
TWEEDSE

Where is the princess at the moment? Didn’t front the podium yesterday and Robot is answering questions today.

Where the hell is the PM?
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August 25, 2021 11:08am
- Gravelroad
  
  Out delivering Labour Party propaganda pamphlets?
  In disguise, of course.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:42am
  - TWEEDSE
    
    Ah thanks Gravel road. Yes that will be it 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:12pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Could be preparing dolphin fillets for dinner.
    
    6 1
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    August 25, 2021 12:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Even the C 130 NZ7004 is flying in circles looking for her. Quite annoying, buzzing over my house
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:19pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Have you checked your mail box?
    Bedda have a look – might be something in it for you to read – or light fire or cigar with.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:37pm
MCos

These “modelers” who have a stab at covid numbers and deaths were taught everything they know by the programmers & quantity surveyors working on the Transmission Gully Project.
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August 25, 2021 11:10am
- Tall Man
  
  It’s a bloody shame the government keeps using them.
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:40am
- riffer
  
  You don’t really know how modelling works, do you?
  
  Modelling is completely dependent on data. When new data comes in, it changes the results.
  
  Sounds like you think that modelling can use imperfect data from the start and produce models that are 100% correct, despite any changes to the incoming data.
  
  Weird.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:37pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Those who produce Computer Models are just like Climate Change Scientists, full of shit IMO.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:39pm
  - MCos
    
    “Modeling is completely dependent on data. When new data comes in, it changes the results.”
    Any professional forecasting/predicting works in the same way, obviously, including the cricket result predictor on the TV that is at times woefully inaccurate.
    When it comes to predicting covid deaths different people have presented quite different results from the same data.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:35pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Mostly true, except where lies and exaggerations are rewarded: climatology, selling expensive drugs and selling various moral panics and scares
    
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    August 25, 2021 4:30pm
Maggie Pie

“Ummm…..”

– Marcus Lush.
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August 25, 2021 11:11am
curry4me

[Beware of this phishing scam. Don’t call the phone number]

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You do not need to take any action from your side as we just wanted to let you know about the renewal.
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In case you need to cancel the renewal of the Premium Protection Plan and claim your refund of $798.99 just call us at (626)227-1166
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August 25, 2021 11:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Just phone them. There is NO 626 international dialling code.
  
  The online scammers have ramped up their activities during the lock down.
  
  8 1
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  August 25, 2021 12:53pm
  - RichardX
    
    The scam is aimed at the US where 626 area code covers part of LA county
    
    2 0
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    August 25, 2021 3:51pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Thanks.
      
      1 0
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      August 25, 2021 4:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I’ve been modelling…(well, trying to brush up my 6th form Maths)

Ashley Bloomfield assured us (this morning on RNZ) that the covid spread is not exponential…

well I’ve run a log graph of the numbers since we went into lockdown and I’m getting a pretty straight line…

so I’m putting today’s total around 251

and somewhere in the vicinity of 630 by the weekend.

(But if the authorities are only be testing half of the close contacts, I could be WAY out)
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August 25, 2021 11:20am
- Tall Man
  
  Two things Maggy. Firstly, they are probably eliminating those “contacts” that aren’t really contacts in the accepted sense, you know, didn’t touch the frozen peas or open a door at the same time. Just because you happened to shop at Countdown on the same day doesn’t increase your risk of covid I would think.
  
  Secondly I also had occasion to try to brush up on my 6th form trig. I knew all the angles inside the triangle and the length of the base but I was buggered by sine & cosine … just like back in the 6th form.
  
  Nothing that a modern dropsaw and a string line couldn’t solve. When my neighbour finally located his log tables we found my line of sight solution was less than 40mm out over 2 meters 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:39am
- westernScientest
  
  Ill give my simple 3rd order poly a chance to redeem its self and take a stab at 228 total today (49 new), 286 (58 new) total tomorrow, 353 (67) total Friday. Once again confidence intervals are [0,5000000].
  
  Its all a bit of a laugh
  
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  August 25, 2021 11:58am
  - westernScientest
    
    62 new cases, under predicting again. Well done Maggie, I think your exponential was probably closer.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:13pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Bit high,…I’ll work off a shallower gradient now…still exponential tho’
      
      Perhaps Bloomfield doesn’t know the meaning of the word.
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/bloomfield-says-62-new-covid-19-cases-not-exponential
      
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      August 25, 2021 3:49pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      wS – given your [0,5000000] confidence levels I don’t see to much wrong with your exponent. 🙂
      Equally Maggy’s log/linear eyeball 101 methodology version looks pretty good as well.
      
      What shouldn’t be forgotten is the “daily” data is at best a tad spurious and we only have 8 growth points so far for something that has a reputed ~14 day cycle.
      
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      August 25, 2021 4:35pm
- riffer
  
  LOL. A straight line is linear.
  
  Exponential growth is where the line tends more towards vertical as time goes on.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:31pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Read what I wrote:
    
    well I’ve run a log graph of the numbers since we went into lockdown and I’m getting a pretty straight line…
    
    Perhaps you need to refresh your maths…
    
    If you show exponential growth on an exponential scale – meaning, our log scale –, the exponential effect evens out. We get a straight line. That means: If you see a straight line in a log-scaled chart, something grows exponentially.
    or
    https://leancrew.com/all-this/2020/03/exponential-growth-and-log-scales/
    
    OK technically, I’ve made a semi-log graph… but I thought it would be obvious what I was doing.
    
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    August 25, 2021 12:47pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      It’s as easy as falling off a logarithm.
      
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      August 25, 2021 2:29pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That log graph near straight line may reflect a proportionate increase in the daily number of tests.
      
      It may not be the virus increasing at all. It may mask hidden false positives generated by the random error processes included in the tests.
      
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      August 25, 2021 4:31pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yes, there’s quite a few factors that could be influencing the number announced from the podium:
        We don’t know if testing revs down in weekends…
        we don’t know if each day’s samples arrive at the lab at the same time.etc, etc.
        
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        August 25, 2021 4:53pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Riffer – haven’t you heard of log-linear and log-log graphs.
    
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    August 25, 2021 2:23pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Guess Ash doesn’t recognize exponential either!
      
      “The good thing about this is while this is steady growth, it is not exponential,” Bloomfield said.
      
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/bloomfield-says-62-new-covid-19-cases-not-exponential
      
      Mind you I’ve reached the conclusion he just doesn’t think.
      
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      August 25, 2021 3:49pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well, I hope the infectious disease experts do…
        
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        August 25, 2021 4:54pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    LOL yourself, Maggy explained exactly how she plotted the log of the case numbers.
    
    It is a liner relationship to a log (exponential) increase. Jeez, the Labour Party needs to pay more to get a better quality of troll !
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:29pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I suspect the positive numbers may be an artifact of the increased testing.
  
  With the ramdomness which occurs in the PCR process some dna could be created to match any comparitor. External dna is added to assist the samples to be added to the chains for replication and for the termination of those chains. The mixture is then sent on its way to repeatedly grow strands exponentially. During that process copying errors can occur creating dna not present in the person being sampled. Repeat often enough( 2^25 is 33.5 billion times) and the errors will swamp the actual sample data under test. Even lower orders of testing will have errors which could provide a match.
  
  The WHO has said re-testing is essential. Freedom is likely being stolen through improper testing. What is the legal liability of the Chief Medical Officer of Health for careless testing? The Govt has to take responsibility too.
  Locking NZ down on false test results is beyond carelessness into fraud.
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:20pm
- BKS
  
  For comparison, you might like to have a look at the NSW curve and how it ramped up after their outbreak beginning around Jun 16. Also compare with our initial outbreak in March last year. Looks like our current outbreak is ramping up faster than either of those.
  
  Here’s a NSW data set:
  https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/nsw
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:39pm
thirteenstars

Another excellent report from Avi Yemini among the protestors and arrests in Melbourne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VsJA_LSxsY

Best line: the hardest thing about a 14-day lockdown is the first 18 months.

You laugh, then you cry.
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August 25, 2021 11:23am
ABS4EVA

There should now be a sweep stake for
WHAT

USA or UK Naval Ship

Goes to the Bottom First
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August 25, 2021 11:34am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  you haven’t given an argument as to why that might happen.
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:07pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Why did Iranians allegedly shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight 17 in July 2014?
    They had the means, the opportunity and the will.
    Were there any consequences for the criminals?
    
    5 2
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    August 25, 2021 12:48pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      That was not Iran. It was Russia, well Russian supplied folk in Ukraine.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17#Final_report
      
      6 0
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      August 25, 2021 3:00pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      The Iranians did shoot down an Ukrainian passenger jet in Jan 2020. Rocket strike not long after takeoff from Tehran’s international airport.
      
      1 1
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      August 25, 2021 3:28pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    It is coming
    
    1 2
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    August 25, 2021 4:21pm
- riffer
  
  Seeing all the pictures of the Taliban driving around in recently liberated US vehicles with US guns goodness only knows what else has been left behind.
  
  But its a fair way to shoot a missile from Afghanistan to the Gulf of Oman so I’m wondering if I have read ANS4EVA’s post right too…
  
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  August 25, 2021 12:34pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    It’s not just Afghanistan, China, Russia, Iran, Nth Korea etc all are quite likely to feel more comfortable in testing Biden’s resolve now than a few months ago.
    
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    August 25, 2021 2:04pm
- rangitoto
  
  It’s not all that easy with aegis defense system. It’s even been tried with a mass attack of speed boats in DCS. The fleet defense for that kind of attack is aircraft dumping guided cluster munitions and radar guided CIWS if they get closer. SM6 and SM3 to take care of various kinds of air attack including aircraft, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles etc.
  
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  August 25, 2021 2:47pm
ABS4EVA

Who and how many get the
KUMBAYA KOHA

I wonder who labour are lining up
for a HAND OUT this week?
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August 25, 2021 11:42am
riffer

It’s been suggested on here (and elsewhere online) that Pacific Islanders laziness and stupidity, or their church going activities are contributing factors to their Covid results.

According to statistical information the median age of the population is more likely to be a larger factor in vaccination rates.

For the total population of New Zealand, the median age is 36. For Pacific Islanders, the median age is 13.

A considerable number of Pacific Islanders are not even eligible to be vaccinated yet.

Population demographics are playing a larger part in vaccination rates than any “racist governmental policies”.

– source: Demographics of New Zealand’s Pacific Population – June 2010 (Statistics New Zealand/Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs)
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August 25, 2021 12:29pm
- riffer
  
  This is also reflected in the statistics released today on demographics on the MOH website:
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics
  
  Of the 206 Pacific Islanders recovered from Covid, only 1 has died – just under .5%
  
  Of the 1523 Europeans who have recovered from Covid, 18 have died – 1.2%
  
  That’s a significant difference. Looking further down we can see that nobody under the age of 50 has died from Covid – yet.
  
  I believe there is a correlation between the median age of Pacific Islanders and the median age of Europeans in this country. Islanders have made up 11.3% of all cases, but only 1 of 26 deaths.
  
  And that it is that, rather than any speculated laziness, stupidity, or racist policies that has determined the way this virus has treated different ethnicities.
  
  I do not yet have an opinion of who 205 Maori have recovered from Covid, and 5 died. That’s 7% of all cases and 20% of all deaths. I very much doubt that it’s because of anything like intelligence or attitude, which are highly variable among any population, and certainly cannot be attributed in a generalised way to any particular ethnicity. I would like to see more information on this subject as at the moment, I fear any interpretation of these figures could fall prey to any inherent or unconscious biases I may have.
  
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  August 25, 2021 2:46pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Remember, Quite a few of last year’s deaths were of folks in aged-care facilities…and the deaths occurred before the Government put in decent PPE gear for the care-givers. (20 of the deaths from Late March- April 2020)
    https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/timeline-coronavirus
    
    Aged care facilities are more likely to hold Europeans than Maori, PI or Asian folk.
    
    Basically, the Government took their eye off the ball in the first few months of the Covid pandemic and 26 old folks died.
    
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    August 25, 2021 3:56pm
wilderbeast

This is interesting as a case study;

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/08/25/government-vague-on-lockdown-education/

Goldsmith has a point here. And if the government has no idea of the impact of the lockdown on children’s education then it’s a fair bet they have no idea about various other critical social and economic dimensions. Ergo they cannot have any sort of handle on the cost benefit ratio of the lockdown…
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August 25, 2021 12:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  To the best of my knowledge, no government has published a comprehensive analysis of the cost/benefit of lockdowns. They know. They are kicking the net-harm can down the road for their successors to deal with.
  
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  August 25, 2021 1:05pm
  - alloytoo
    
    I suspect the Swedish government may be the only ones who took a stab at this.
    
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    August 25, 2021 1:51pm
  - cmm
    
    With all the fear-based bullshit it’s all feelz. Nobody wants to provide political ammunition by saying that extending granny’s life by 2 weeks (or whatever it is) is not worth $5M (or whatever it is).
    
    Yet we make this call every day in the way we fund pharmac etc.
    
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    August 25, 2021 2:48pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Labour have already shown they have no concept of govt but the crudest. They have basically sacked Treasury for MBIE. Cinders prances around Parliament claiming her sovereignty, but she has none but what she slyly steals. The tax monies are not hers.
  
  NZ is about having a productive society for all citizens and an honourable place in the world community.
  
  Freedom is not a govt commodity it is conferred by citizenship. Govt has accepted the social contract of the duty of care of the Nation. That encompasses much more than health matters. So govts must be able to discern the interaction of all matters pertaining to our society. The daily 1pm show misses 90% of what is relevant. People who are locked down are denied social contact so are left to rot. They are not working so income is not being generated along with the revenues which provide for the functioning of the State.
  
  Economics with its cost/benefit perspective is a highly proper consideration. All lives have worth as humans and dignity but denying the application of the greatest good for the maximum of people is to subvert the allocation through small mindedness.
  This may be the ultimate failure of socialism that is is ultimately drive by innate human greed with a superficial cloak of kindness.
  
  It solves the desire by many to be provided for but their lives are diminished accordingly. “You will own nothing but you will like it”. It further satisfies those who are instinctive bullies who can satisfy that by ordering society to their dictates. That may suit a crippled anxious group but where does it lead? Have any command societies actually worked? The life of a free society is dynamic, the command one static or reversing.
  
  The Ardern govt has lost it’s bearings.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:09pm
- GJM
  
  Not so. There is zero cost as the taxpayer is paying and all the pollies and snivel servants are on full pay, and there is a huge benefit of an lection win, a bloodless Maori/ marxist revolution and at least 3 years more at the trough.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:15pm
Fletch

Here in lockdown, I have run out of Coke until this evening. I found a box in the garage with a few cans of ‘Coke No Sugar’ that have been there probably a couple of years. Still very fizzy but no sweetness at all. Does the sweetener fade out over time?
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August 25, 2021 1:26pm
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, all chemicals fade over time.
  
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  August 25, 2021 3:53pm
BananaLlama

Another no show from Jacinda?
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August 25, 2021 1:34pm
- MrTips
  
  She’s busy overseeing the social media campaign to rebut ScoMo and over half the NZ population who are ratioing her on all platforms, except ~~Mordor~~ Twitter. And that includes Jamie Ensor and Dan Satherley at Newshub who have gone all out for her today.
  
  Oh, and interviewing her new disinformation officer.
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Be thankful for small mercies, their propeganda dept have finally realised that we have had a gutsfull of her bullshit
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:43pm
- lifesgood
  
  What a blessing. We’ve had a gutsful of her sanctimonious, lying clap trap. She is probably having a mental health day. What else has she got to do with parliament closed down?
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:22pm
Nickc2

Taliban likely to inherit Afghanistan’s seat on the UN Council on the Status of Women. That should be a hoot!
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/08/taliban-likely-to-inherit-afghanistans-seat-on-un-council-on-status-of-women.html
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August 25, 2021 1:35pm
wilderbeast

Even by the normal standards 1pm was a circus. Hipkins turned up in his government branded mask, which he removed to reveal a Cheshire grin. He opened with the now obligatory “I can start with some good news” and then cracked several lame jokes including calling Bloomfield “legendary poker face” and rehashing his “spread legs” joke from the other day. 63 new cases. Surely this is now a scandal. Labour’s strategy can be summarised thus:

1. Secure the border to stop Covid getting in.
2. No need to vaccinate in a hurry (see #1)
3. Ignore international experience “Labour knows best”
4. Oops Covid got in….
5. Panic
6. Lock people in their homes
7. Lie to hide the folly of 1, 2 and 3
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August 25, 2021 1:42pm
- Happychappy
  
  I wonder whether Ashley Bloomfield was pointing the finger at anyone on here when he said that people were being mean with their comments on the Samoan Church outbreak when calling those by saying they were gutless.
  The whole 1.00 pm announcement today was more lies than truth at questions from the media, in which I think the media did a great job today in putting the Government under pressure in holding them to account.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:04pm
- Boutique Avo Orchard
  
  You seem to have nailed it Wilderbeast
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sheeple, wake up.
https://swprs.org/the-face-mask-folly-in-retrospect/?
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August 25, 2021 1:54pm
westernScientest

chippie pretty much just confirmed (He technically didn’t say it, ‘wont rule in or out’) through his weasel words they wont let the SI go below L3 if Auckland is still in L4.
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August 25, 2021 1:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Watch this woke clown dance on the head of a pin.
https://rumble.com/vlkuve-general-admits-biden-admin-is-relying-on-taliban-for-crowd-control.html?
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August 25, 2021 2:03pm
Maggie Pie

Had to larf…..

My partner came home early today. Everything’s gone a bit quiet.
He likes to listen to see what Barry Sopher has to say on the lunchtime show. Anyway, he left the trannie on ZB. Reckons when you listen to that pair of wokesters on the noon till 4 slot, there wouldn’t ONE PERSON, that they either know or interview, that they don’t refer to as “…..an absolutely wonderful, kind, beautiful individual”

I mean he finds it all quite ‘cringeworthy’ tbh… there wouldn’t be one person HE knows, who he doesn’t thinks a prize c***

LOL!!
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August 25, 2021 2:03pm
103PapPap

So during a level 4 lockdown, where do I go to buy essentials like whisky and gin?
7 0
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August 25, 2021 2:04pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Gilmours. If you don’t have a card borrow one.
  
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  August 25, 2021 3:39pm
- graham
  
  Or, buy online.
  
  http://www.whiskyandmore.co.nz is a good place to start.
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:02pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Glengarry’s @ Basset Rd is open till 8pm.
  Assume other branches will be as well….
  My partner got himself a bottle of Scoth yesterday.
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:15pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  make your own
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Brews. Well here on the Shore anyway. FB details they already know from the last Govt control. Credit Card, delivery is only $10. 3 Jacks, 3 Crown Royals.
  Booze from Countdown, Stella is not on special
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  As the man says, Whishy & More with free delivery over $200.
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:24pm
Fletch

Disgraced NY Governor Andrew Cuomo pardons Weather Underground terrorist on the way out…

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ari-j-kaufman/2021/08/24/andrew-cuomo-commutes-sentence-of-weather-underground-terrorist-father-of-san-francisco-da-on-final-day-in-office-n1472146

WTF is wrong with these liberals?
9 2
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August 25, 2021 2:16pm
- Ed Snack
  
  To be fair, he had served 40 years, more than he would have here likely enough.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:34pm
Prince

Bravo to the intrepid RNZ reporter holding Bloomfield’s feet to the fire on the ‘saline vaccines’ administered last month.
Her questions suggested very strongly that MoH was trying to keep this quiet, until RNZ broke the story.
Bloomfield tried to deny this but ‘fessed up that keeping quiet was an option suggested by some people (didn’t say who but I can guess).
But they were gong to announce it, they really were, after a month of silence. Just a coincidence that RNZ broke the story !
Bloomfield looked very uncomfortable, in fact very shifty.
Fortunately for him, Hipkins moved the questioning onto more friendly journalists.
Anyway, big ups to the RNZ journalist.
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August 25, 2021 2:22pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I don’t trust that shifty Bloomfield. Too much the used car salesman.
  
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  August 25, 2021 6:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fuck this boring shit. Some fun featuring Janet Jackson. Close ears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deqx-Xb-yHY
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August 25, 2021 2:41pm
cmm

Here’s our C130 flying into Afghanistan

https://www.flightradar24.com/ALB05/28e74e56
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August 25, 2021 2:43pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Excuse me I thought Helen Clark had Banned the
  NZ Airforce
  
  and should’n the Name Airforce be changed
  because under the Treaty we should not force
  anyone to do anything
  
  Also
  
  Where is Jacinda’s Flag message out the back
  
  “Be Kind to one another”
  
  The Taliban will listen to her remember
  she played dress ups once and said some magic
  words in another language.
  
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  August 25, 2021 4:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You have been drinking – but that is OK.
    
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    August 25, 2021 4:40pm
- kevn
  
  @cmm… Excellent, thank you.
  
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  August 25, 2021 6:32pm
ABS4EVA

Be Kind to one Another

and

Try not to VOMIT.
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August 25, 2021 4:15pm
Maggie Pie

Life itself can seem very UN-KIND sometimes.

I was just thinking, we don’t know a sole that lives in Mangere. In fact nobody we do know has ever set foot over there…let alone attend the SASOG Church.
Yet our Tennis Club, the Nail Bar, even our fave Thai eatery, are all in LV4 lockdown till further.

SHEESH!!
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August 25, 2021 4:40pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Rim your Area people can be very dirty, Maggie.
  
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  August 25, 2021 7:44pm
BananaLlama

Supermarkets looking like some rerun of the Soviet Union. No Flour, no meat, canned goods rationed, no bread.
Comrade behave or the Stasi will pay you a visit over the tone and tenor of your speech.
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August 25, 2021 4:41pm
- Inandout
  
  BL, I sit in the car while my wife shops and I look at the sheep waiting in line with their masks adorning their mugs. Masks aren’t necessary we have learnt but boy they are the icing on the cake for complete control of Jacinda’s subjects.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I am sure the Police are watching the end of my driveway. They did when we had to go out and gather food and petrol. Just sat there, still there now – sitting in the car – on full pay.
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August 25, 2021 4:47pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Did you Watch the Sunset
  
  Own up
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:00pm
- [email protected]
  
  Probably because of some of your KB blogs. My wife has been warning me for months that the police will be at our door any day because of some of my blogs here and elsewhere.
  
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  August 25, 2021 7:25pm
CAKE FACE1

https://www.cnbsnews.live/state-and-affairs/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians/

“Point 56 states, “That your misleading tweet on May 10, 2021, against the use of Ivermectin had the effect of the State of Tamil Nadu withdrawing Ivermectin from the protocol on May 11, 2021, just a day after the Tamil Nadu government had indicated the same for the treatment of COVID-19 patients.”

If a trial in India finds WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan guilty then the WHO Scientist could be sentenced to death or life in prison.”

If she gets death, what should Baker / Hendy / Wiles / Skegg get for their Zero Covid Hoax?
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August 25, 2021 4:48pm
- MrTips
  
  Indeed. India has reported that 2/3 of those over 6yrs old have antibodies to COVID, and most of them will be delta strain. That’s around 660 million people. Even Reuters and CNN were forced to report it. https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-govt-survey-shows-two-thirds-have-coronavirus-antibodies-2021-07-20/
  
  Deaths from COVID in India are at 435,000.
  That calculates to an IFR of 0.07%.
  
  This is truly REMARKABLE if even half accurate, as only 9% of Indians have been vaccinated.
  
  So how have they been so successful? If this is true, what did India do that hasn’t involved vaccines?
  https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/
  
  Or is the current prevailing Western racism that believes India, or Bangladesh or Egypt could never possibly come up with a solution, as they are ”just bloody 3rd world idiots”? Our leaders and scientists, including those in NZ, need to investigate this: it’s being ignored.
  
  The irony is, if true, India is set to wipe the floor with everyone because of it. Even China. And we would deserve it imo.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:07pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    This is old news to the more informed and many research institutions around the world (including Melbourne University). are trialing it’s efficacy in the treatment of covid. So far, excellent results. Waste of time though for New Zealanders. In the Pfizer contract, we are prohibited from sanctioning any other substance and/or pharmaceautical, for the treatment of the virus
    
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    August 25, 2021 5:51pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Nuremberg 2.0 incoming…
  
  5 1
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  August 25, 2021 5:10pm
CAKE FACE1

The Zero Covid Conspiracy or Hoax was obviously complete and utter nonsense since day one.

However, it’s interesting to see how the nut jobs are now pivoting, to try to save face.

They are saying that they weren’t wrong initially, but the Delta variant has changed everything!

It’s all lies. Every Greek letter was endemic everywhere but here and Oz, from very early on in the crisis.

Furthermore, it was always inevitable that it would eventually become endemic in NZ, if the vaccine wasn’t perfect (and stay perfect forever, no matter what new variants emerged).

Zero Covid was never sustainable. It was also a massively expensive experiment, which achieves nothing except delaying the inevitable. Lockdowns will bankrupt us eventually.

The fact that Baker / Hendy / Wiles / Skegg thought they could continue their Fortress NZ Elimination experiment indefinitely shows how ignorant they are.

Why haven’t these clowns all been fired?
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August 25, 2021 5:07pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Hardly blame the people at top, the sheep wanted to turn their immune systems into a subscription service for big pharma.
  
  Monthly boosters shots for the rest of their lives, with just as bad content as netflix.
  
  lol.
  
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  August 25, 2021 5:57pm
70andstilllearning

Sheeesh!
Another dumb cop taking the law into his own hands.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-mangawhai-locals-frustrated-police-checkpoints-exclude-them-from-northland/6C34UHUX5S52J77J3XZB52MNDI/

“Northland district commander Superintendent Tony Hill confirmed police were establishing three fixed checkpoints at southern entry points to the region.

“Anyone attempting to travel into Northland from outside of the region or around the region can expect to be stopped by police at a checkpoint or randomly, and asked about their purpose for travel.”

Hill said there was no excuse for people not following the rules, given the country had been operating with restrictions for the past week.

“We will look to take enforcement action against those who blatantly ignore the restrictions in place.”

Police planned to “assess and monitor” the locations of the checkpoints, as well as where staff were allocated across the district, and “engage with local iwi and community”, Hill said.
AND
“We want our whānau and community to feel safe and we want to reassure our local communities that we have been, and will continue to take action where motorists choose to disregard the travel current restrictions.””

The legal emergency boundary for Northland includes Mangawhai – period. Northland DHB provides HEALTH service to Mangawhai.

Guess the useless pr..k is angling to be next “Commissioner” by putting local feelz before the law.
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August 25, 2021 5:43pm
- thirteenstars
  
  There’s no law a cop won’t enforce.
  
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  August 25, 2021 6:01pm
- SilverSurfer
  
  As a Mangawhai local i can tell you there are a few pissed off locals not happy about this…they tried this the last lockdown auckland had obviously the smack on the hand they got for just taking it upon themselves to change the district boundrys wasn’t enough!
  Maybe the police would’ve been better off actually stopping all the aucklanders gapping it to their bachs around the country in the first place.
  
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  August 25, 2021 6:10pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    SS – figured that which is why I put up the comment.
    It also doesn’t help anyone when the local fuzz are pushing people within our boundary to go to a hot area (Warkworth) for their essential needs.
    
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    August 25, 2021 6:57pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Fact is, that it could in actual reality push Northland into an extended L4 rather than a virtual one due to the southern boundary.
      
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      August 25, 2021 7:04pm
      - SilverSurfer
        
        True I would imagine thats the plan lump us in with auckland and its levels…
        
        Maybe if the local 4 square was a bit cheaper wouldn’t be so much of a problem?
        
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        August 25, 2021 7:08pm
- krazykiwi
  
  “engage with local iwi ”
  
  That is code for “let them do whatever the hell they want”, while plod unleashes their pent up authoritarian urges on the rest of us.
  
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  August 25, 2021 6:30pm
ABS4EVA

I propose as not to offend NZ’s many enemies

We call the New Zealand AirForce

The NZ Air Wellness Well being and Assistance institute of Nuclear Free Aotearoa NZ Pacifica Asia

As well as removing all Portraits
of Winston Churchill

We re name the Battle of Britain
Britains time of Rediscovery and Challenge

All NZ Aircraft will have Kia Ora
Kumbaya and Be Kind to one another

painted on every visit
Kumbaya

and and and…
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August 25, 2021 6:09pm
Pheobe

FOR ALL THE FARMERS…
A Police officer stopped at our farm yesterday, he said “I need to inspect your farm for illegal growing drugs.”
I said “Okay, but don’t go in that field over there.”
The Police officer verbally exploded saying, “Mister, I have the authority of the State Government with me!” Reaching into his rear pants pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and shoved it in my face. “See this badge?! This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish…. On any land !! No questions asked or answers given!! Have I made myself clear?…. do you understand?!!”
I nodded politely, apologized, and went about my chores. A short time later, I heard loud screams, looked up, and saw the police officer running for his life, being chased by my big old mean bull…. With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it seemed likely that he’d sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified.
I threw down my tools, ran to the fence and yelled at the top of my lungs
“Your badge, show him your BADGE!!”
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August 25, 2021 6:38pm
Liberal Cliche

This is interesting. According to the CDC if you take the vaccine and die/hospitalized within 14 days you are counted as “unvaccinated”

after 1 dose of the single dose Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) COVID-19 vaccine¶;
partially vaccinated ≥14 days after receipt of the first dose and
<14 days after the second dose in a 2-dose series; and unvaccinated <14 days after receipt of the first dose of a 2-dose series
or 1 dose of the single-dose vaccine or if no CAIR2 vaccination data were available.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7034e5-H.pdf

Is this how Bloomfeild and co count the stats?
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August 25, 2021 7:03pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  This is interesting also…
  
  https://chriswaldburger.substack.com/p/bombshell-uk-data-destroys-entire?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy&fbclid=IwAR2Ag45uwSmYcyN7c4kc6c-ozlEPPxdcN4BpNZkr2Gowxw1oWlSlx3gPoZM
  
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  August 25, 2021 8:10pm
ABS4EVA

When you Vote Labour anywhere in the world

Well READ please

Slug Gate

https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/o3r2d2/has_anybody_heard_about_the_icook_foods_story/

https://twitter.com/hashtag/sluggate?src=hashtag_click

The most powerful man in Victoria’s Covid response the man with the power to shut open fine and then shut again has been accused by ICook foods owner IAN COOK of lying to a parliamentary inquiry.

IF you need to know why 800 people ARE DEAD
THEY FORGOT

If you need to know why they can’t
GET ANYTHING RIGHT

THIS IS US

THIS IS LABOUR

EVERYWHERE

https://twitter.com/petesot/status/1429921035135160320/photo/1

Australia is proud to release its new health worker uniform and first-aid kit, as seen here modelled by a local caregiver

Be Kind to one another
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August 25, 2021 8:54pm
dcrane

Jet Park almost full. Going to be interesting to see if they can keep Delta from leaking out of that place. I wouldn’t want to be downwind.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-jet-park-could-be-out-of-beds-tomorrow-but-theres-a-backup/IR5NUMNASD7GSVTG564BNQEMKA/
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August 25, 2021 10:26pm
krazykiwi

.
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August 26, 2021 7:27am

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