General Debate 01 October 2021

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Day of Older Persons!

The 2021 theme “Digital Equity for All Ages” affirms the need for access and meaningful participation in the digital world by older persons.
Rapid digital innovation and exponential growth has transformed all sectors of society, including how we live, work and relate to one another. While technological advances are accelerating human progress, half the global population is off-line. Reports from the ITU show women and older persons experience digital inequity to a greater extent than other social groups.
Meanwhile, cybercrimes and misinformation threaten the human rights, privacy, and security of older people. Rapid adoption of digital technology has far outpaced governance and regulation at all levels.
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October 1, 2021 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Look at all the sick fucks who want children to take the unsafe ro vaxx for a virus that is no danger for them to “protect the elderly”. Dont blame the elderly either just all fuckwits in Wellington and the sheep.
  
  Ro vaxx at risk elderly but let children get natural immunity against the ro which will serve well when adults.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:14am
  - Cinematic
    
    100%
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:32am
  - argie bargie
    
    While I don’t agree with your language Simon, I totally agree with your message.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Well the FDA is expected to give the Green light to covid vaccines for 5 – 11 year olds in mid November. New Zealand is bound to follow suit. I would expect a majority of parents will get their kids vaccinated. Not sure that means they are all sick fucks. How about some perspective?
    
    Clinical trials are under way for infants over 6 months old. I would expect the Green light on that group in mid 2022. I’m guessing that will really wind you up
    
    And that claim “natural immunity is better” has long been a chant of antivaxxers forever. Better than what? How is it better?
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:31am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Benedict, so you are in favour of giving children a medical procedure that is quite possibly 3x more dangerous than what it is supposed to protect against ?
      
      What would you say to the parents of the children who die, “sorry, but that had to happen so others can just FEEL safe even though they are NOT safer”.
      
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      October 1, 2021 9:47am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You don’t know that because none of the results of clinical trials in the 5 -11 group have yet been released. If the risks outweigh the benefits, the FDA won’t approve them in the USA.
        
        Anyway they are not compulsory. Parents can choose. And I would expect a majority of parents to vaccinate their children if Medsafe approves the vaccines for children.
        
        But at the day I don’t care much. Over time the rate of COVID vaccination in children will increase. It will just be added to the schedule of vaccinations with MMR etc. It won’t be an issue. And maybe all adults will get an annual customised COVID vaccination. We all get annual flu vaccinations. This will just be one more. I would not get wound up about it.
        
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        October 1, 2021 1:42pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Actually, Robert Malone – one of the inventors of the MRNA gene therapy (which is what he calls it, not a vaccine) -is strongly against ‘vaccinating’ under 18’s with it.
        
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        October 1, 2021 2:45pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.
      
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
      
      Trust the science bro.
      
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      October 1, 2021 10:02am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes supports what I have said for the last 3 months – the vaccination is just a smoothing device to getting infected. We all will be.
        
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        October 1, 2021 1:43pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Don’t interfere with the human body unless proven safe and necessary. The greed of Big Pharma is irrelevant. Regulatory agencies which capitulate are themselves criminal.
      
      Fear is a cause of mental illness. Govts who promote it are unfit for the dust heap.
      Remove our amateur govt now.
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:42am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Don’t interfere with the human body unless proven safe and necessary.”
        
        Oh no. Look until the 1950s the ‘human body’ was a pit of infection and death. Vaccines and antibiotics changed the human experience. I mean literally. So don’t go too fast on beating up on the COVID vaccines.
        
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        October 1, 2021 6:33pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Try and get the socialist Jaspinda sycophant sheep to comprehend that
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:01am
- Ruahine
  
  Happy Human rights day of every Person.
  Jeff Taylor telling it how it is.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic1u6C8S854&ab_channel=JeffTaylor
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:09am
- MCos
  
  Suzanne Aubert died on this day in 1926.
  She came to NZ in 1860 & at the end of the century having formed the Sisters of Compassion set up a soup kitchen which still stands on Tory St for those who have fallen on hard times.
  They also started a crèche, first in NZ I think & not without opposition, so solo mums could get out and make a few bob.
  From what I understand Suzanne Aubert was no someone who took no for an answer and if she wanted results she went right to the top.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:18am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Correct MCos. Her funeral in Wellington in 1926 was the biggest ever seen there, and I think it still stands as Wellington’s biggest funeral procession.
    Her Cause for Canonisation to declared Sainthood is presently before the appropriate dicastery at the Vatican in Rome.
    
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    October 1, 2021 2:48pm
    - Cassandra
      
      The Mother Theresa of NZ with none of the downside. A truly great woman. Even though it’s hard to believe is sainthood I hope she gets it.
      
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      October 1, 2021 2:58pm
Warren

Kris Faafoi Immigration fix to late for some skilled Migrants feeling they have been forced to leave.
The Governments mega announcement on Thursday could have kept Craig Hurn in the country and finally bought his family her. But it’s to late. Next week Craig is out taking his much need skills with him.
The Governments answer is ” This is the most significant announcement on Immigration Policy in recent memory said the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/kris-faafoi-s-immigration-fix-too-late-for-some-skilled-migrants-feeling-forced-to-leave.html
This is just more bullshit from a Government that has treated essential workers like high skilled trades people, Doctors and Nurses with contempt when they were desperately needed to help our Country.
Shame on you Jacinda Ardern you are supposed to put New Zealand first before yourself.
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October 1, 2021 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Skilled immigration = cafe chef who can prepare bacon & eggs.
  
  Dont need to speak English and have to be paid at least $27 ph job. Thats it. $27 ph job. All the overseas doctor stories were fake news.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:20am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No, all the overseas doctor/nurse/care worker stories were true. It’s just a pity that a whole lot of them haven’t been able to hang around long enough for Faafoi to make his decision.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:28am
    - Simon
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      There were a handful of doctor / nurses overall. They were fake news in relation to the 160,000 they let in.
      
      Skilled still means cooking bacon and eggs.
      
      It was immigration for immigration sake. Nothing to do what jobs the country needed. The numbers are way too high. It is just another labo reactionary fuck up and not what they campaigned on.
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:41am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        It is true that they campaigned on reducing immigration, and also that it seems to have gone from zero to 100 – but comments from medical people around the lowering of ICU capacity, GPs, nurses, aged care (as with many industries) going backwards is not Fake News just because the labour response to political pressure seems oddly excessive: like a snap shot from a double barrelled shotgun rather than a considered aim via a snipers rifle.
        But as noted, they will probably mess it up – it still needs to be processed, so let’s see how the system copes next year.
        The bureaucracy was said to have been sluggish with there was little to do, so I expect the frustrations will shift from the silence on the residency plight onto the incompetency to address their plight.
        
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        October 1, 2021 10:57am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        I agree Simon. People making solely economic arguments (usually spurious ones) in support of immigration totally neglect the more important social and cultural factors of immigration. They’ve been sucked in by the multinationals, financial institutions and other big interests who are the sole beneficiaries of globalised trade and associated free migration. They see the world as a market and a set of resources to plunder, not as comprised of distinct peoples and nations with their own interests.
        
        If we aren’t producing our own “skilled” people, then what on earth is the education system doing? Mainly telling people the alleged benefits of the diversity that will mean they will find it more difficult once they complete their education, I suspect. Saying that immigrants are “skilled” makes it sound OK, but it really depends on your definition of skilled. Immigration is not a necessity and never has never been.
        
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        October 1, 2021 11:13am
      - I remember when
        
        Sorry fuzzysnuggleduck reported in error.
        Was just going to say that a Wellington contact suggested that Faafoi, if he genuinely isn’t interested in staying in politics, might just be the person to get things moving.
        They thought his comments made it publicly clear to the department he expected the job done, and on time.
        
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        October 1, 2021 1:30pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Upvoted. Immigration in NZ has been an sick joke. Desperate exploitable Third Worlders doing jobs our jobless youth and professionally unemployed could and should be doing, especially the tangata tiriti. But the majority of you voted for this sad state of affairs over the last 10-15 years to support the “rockstar economy”.
    
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    October 1, 2021 2:22pm
  - Aurelia
    
    The visa class is Critical Skills not to be confused with the min wage low skill Essential Skills category. This class doesnt even need to attach a c.v when they will out their application for the Essential Skill visa. It’s basically a no questions asked situation and it takes only 2 weeks to be approved.
    
    Critical Skills class requires industry regstrations, tertiary qualifications that match their job and solid verifiable experience. It is a pathway to residency and rightly so. These people can work and live in any country in the world.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:54pm
- Southern Raider
  
  And Kris was confident those visa could have the majority processed within 12 months. So all those people still have 12 months of uncertainty and there will be a large amount who still don’t have an answer this time next year.
  
  More will leave
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:31am
  - Simon
    
    At the moment across the West they are rolling out cretin mandatory vaxxs for medical staff. NZ has a once in life time chance to get highly skilled medical staff to move to here. Those who refuse the ro vaxx. New York alone has 80,000 who will refuse.
    
    You could have all the doctors and nurses you want. Those who want to work in a semi free western country. Instead the turds from Wellington like National want to mandatory ro vaxx med staff here as well. At least Labo knows if they do that the hospital system fails.
    
    But NZ instead will settle for a hash brown cook.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:48am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Yep, circa 70,000/16% of NY nurses to be replaced by the National Guard for refusing forced treatment. All of these American nutters in the front lines of the medical profession refusing the vax, willing to lose their jobs rather than take it. Oh, the misinformation at play! Crazy!
      
      I mean, these people administer it and see the effects, as well as being more exposed to the deadly virus in their work. You’d think they would see that 1) the vax is perfectly safe and that 2) they need the protection from the lethal Covid (you’d even think they would have had it months ago). They are told this constantly and in unison by others, yet they still refuse to believe the obvious truth of CNN’s, ABC’s, Stephen Colbert’s and Twitter’s pronouncements? Knuckle-draggers!
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:27am
      - Matt Long
        
        Yes, given most of these medical people have already been exposed to the virus and have around 20 times better immunity than the vaxed according to Israeli studies, one can hardly understand their refusal to bow to the politician’s wills.
        
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        October 1, 2021 1:49pm
  - Nickc2
    
    With any luck, Faafoi and his mob won’t be around in twelve months’ time. Bring on the revolution!
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is Kris Faafoi working on Tokelau time?
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:45am
  - Paulus
    
    How many of these 165,000 waiting will have their current visas terminated through time whilst they continue to hope and wait – again.
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:28pm
Vory v zakone

“The world is becoming increasingly aware of the rampant corruption in the media, and are rising up against tyrannical
governments and the pharmaceutical industry that are coordinating this assault on our freedom and civil rights. Anyone
who asks questions or challenges the hard sell is immediately censored on social media. State governments and
employees, health care workers and emergency responders, face loss of their jobs for refusing the vaccine.

The United States federal government was directly funding the dangerous gain of function virus research that lead to this
global pandemic, and the media helped bury any evidence of the lab leak.

Independent media platforms that defend freedom of speech and the rights of Americans to speak out against the global tyranny will defeat the censorship extremists. Dissenting Americans, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, fill the ranks of every socioeconomic class, every political party and every faith-based community. They understand the meaning of the warning that, “The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” and they are not going to stand by and do nothing.

We are united across the world, we will not live in fear, we will stand together and restore our freedoms.”

Dr Joseph Mercola co-author of
‘The Truth About COVID-19: Exposing The Great Reset, Lockdowns, Vaccine Passports, and the New Normal’
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October 1, 2021 8:00am
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  Joseph Mercola has been around for decades peddling Big Pharma, in fact Big everything, including being a very well known anti-vaxxer. He has been discredited on a number of occasions. He is well known in international health. If you are going to cherry pick someone to quote don’t pick someone who has been internationally discredited.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:17am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Oh, he’s an “anti-vaxxer” – I may as well just stop here – who has been, not only discredited, but internationally discredited? Well that’s it then: someone jab me now, please.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What’s your qualifications to critique him?
    Truth bearing messengers have always been deprecated-frequently beheaded. Some like Assange just get imprisoned and left to rot, despite the “justice” system.
    
    There’s good reason why truth is very precious.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:49am
    - Aurelia
      
      Agreed, we will probably hear that Mercola is nothing but a junkie next to discredit him.
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:59pm
Ra Henare

Interesting that in Mental Health week, government employees are ignoring it and sending hurtful emails seemingly unaware of the mental health harm they are creating.

Friend of mine 75 years old, recent divorcee, had applied for his pension to be paid overseas as the current 26 week limit on trips wasn’t enough especially with the fucked up MIQ lottery
My friend loves to travel and has done a lot since he retired(65) he has been to 39 different countries.

With 2 weeks to go before his trip starts and having started the process nearly 6 weeks ago and filled in all sorts of forms. He gets an email on Tuesday 28th Sept.. His flight 10th October.

Not only rejecting his application, but arbitrarily cancelling his regular super from Wednesday 29th. Yep no more money honey!!!!!!!!!!!! T
All based on some assumptions by someone called Paul , Customer Service Officer at Ministry of Social Development(MSD). This Paul person says my mate is not “” ordinarily resident”” in NZ. Somehow being in NZ for 26 of the last 52 weeks means nothing. There is no lawful definition and MSD makes up the rules as it goes along.

They also knew my mate was mentally “vulnerable” having been thru a messy divorce, after 45 years of marriage, a few months ago. They knew this from emails going back to June.

No discussion, no come meet us at the Local MSD office so we can talk thru it. Nothing except the inhumane email.

Needless to say my good keen Kiwi mate is devastated. How heartless and cruel can these bastards be?
He has/had no other income. He believed he was obeying the law. Unfortunately, Pauls opinion was otherwise.

Poor bastard, I really feel for him.
Apparently, he can appeal, but Appeal mob says it will be 2-4 months until they get around to it.
His travel costs and arrangement already incurred, down the dunny
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October 1, 2021 8:00am
- surfing
  
  Maybe MIQ is actually a cunning plan by baldrick to reduce superannuation payments?
  
  Seriously though, are you surprised that this incompetent government didn’t think about this issue?
  
  As soon as we had lockdowns and failure of MIQ, government should have been thinking about all those time sensitive situations that will be affected by their incompetency.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Time to tell your mate to raise the issue with:
  
  The head of his MSD office
  CEO MSD
  His local MP
  The Minister in charge of MSD
  The opposition Minister for MSD
  The Human Rights Commissioner
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:47am
  - Bob
    
    The only one likely to respond in a timely manner, will be the Opposition SHADOW minister for MSD
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Ombudsman is useful too.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Ombudsmen work independent of govt and do call officials to account. They can also put Ministers on the spot if the law is not being followed.
      The Ombudsman staff are all quality lawyers.
      I have had several occasions to use them.
      
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      October 1, 2021 3:21pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Have been advised that he has his local MP on the case from Monday. MP is/was a lawyer.
  
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  October 1, 2021 7:59pm
peterwn

So the Reserve Bank has been studying the future of cash and concluded that it may be necessary to make it mandatory for banks to continue to issue and take cash. One reason was that some people cannot obtain bank accounts (never mind as far as I know that every WINZ beneficiary needs a bank account and EFTPOS card to receive and draw the benefit).
This immediately begs the question ‘what the hell was Kiwibank set up for’? Surely the Government as Kiwibank’s owner could mandate that Kiwibank continues to provide cash services. Similarly the Government could make it as part of being a provider of Government banking services that it continues to deal with cash. This is currently Westpac.
The other issue is the availability of bank accounts. Interestingly Kiwibank recently closed the account of a customer it considered a ‘ratbag’. At the time I thought that is ran against what Kiwibank supposedly stood for. Surely there should never be need for Kiwibank to deny any ordinary person an account. Customers cannot do any real mischief with a basic account and EFTPOS card. So the Governent should be influencing what it can control, not threatening to wave the big legislative stick.
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October 1, 2021 8:01am
- cmm
  
  We will always need cash as a back up to when EFTPOS systems fail. That might not be often, but it does happen.
  
  We also need it for those situations where you want a workmate to buy you a filled roll at the cafe or such. How do you handle transactions like that with EFTPOS?
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:18am
  - graham
    
    I suspect there are plenty of situations around New Zealand where EFTPOS and the like just aren’t suitable.
    
    As an example, I get my hair cut by a guy who officially retired a few years ago but still does cuts out of his home. For the small number of cuts he does, it’s not worth him getting an EFTPOS terminal in his home funnily enough, so I pay him in cash.
    
    Same with the music teacher I go to, who teaches from his home.
    
    And what about when you get the neighbour’s kid to babysit? You pay them in cash, right?
    
    Cash may EVENTUALLY disappear, but I don’t see it happening for some time yet.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:45am
    - Colville
      
      you can do a bank transfer on your phone in front of him. No need for cash.
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:53am
    - Max Howler
      
      im pretty sure there are other reasons to only accept cash. Same at my tinnie house!
      
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      October 1, 2021 9:49am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      …and don’t forget tinnie houses and brothels 😉
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:01am
  - Master Mariner
    
    What could possibly go wrong CMM?
    
    https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/solar-storm-2021-why-is-it-a-threat-to-internet-everything-you-need-to-know-1848809-2021-09-03
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:51am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Don’t you need that stuff for “cashies” – not illegal per se – only illegal if the supplier/contractor doesn’t declare 🙂
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:54am
- kowtow
  
  Kiwibank were the first of our majors to drop cheques , the rest followed.
  
  Kiwibank also were the first to send out a raft of ” we’re going to charge you for x/y/z services at the branch counter ” I suspect in an effort to drive punters ( that’s how they treat their customers) out of branch and into the cyberworld ( funny how they’re so disrupted now on that platform”.
  
  They also aggressively closed post shops which were bank branches , making local banking very difficult .
  
  Don’t expect kiwibank to do anything that is marginally akin to customer friendly banking services.
  
  A total abandonment of its founding principles.
  All this under a regime that holds itself out to be there for the poor , the marginalised and those not served by the evil neo liberal ” corporates”
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:37am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Anderton is dead now so Kiwibank can do what they like.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:55am
- dime
  
  “Interestingly Kiwibank recently closed the account of a customer it considered a ‘ratbag’.”
  
  unless it was a proven terrorist… scary shit.
  
  i like the yanks system – you cant deny access to utilities. that should include a bank account.
  
  there are some evil people out there, usually hiding under the “social justice” umbrella.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:51am
  - Boutique Avo Orchard
    
    Kiwibank – the bank of Prisoners in NZ!
    
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    October 1, 2021 7:27pm
krazykiwi

As readers here will know I have a real problem with masks. The banality of it all. The pointlessness. The medical valuelessness. So, I’ve read lots on the topic. Here’s a great summary: –

♦ Randomized controlled trials—which are the “gold standard” for clinical research—have repeatedly measured the effects of masks on preventing the spread of contagious respiratory diseases. These trials have found inconsistent benefits from N95 masks in healthcare settings and no statistically significant benefits from any type of mask in community settings.

♦ The only randomized controlled trial that evaluated cloth masks found that mandating them causes significant disease transmission in high-risk healthcare settings.

♦ Observational studies—which are a weaker form of evidence than randomized controlled trials—find that masking schoolchildren provides negligible or no benefits.

♦ Lab studies—which are the weakest form of clinical evidence—don’t support the notion that surgical or cloth masks reduce the transmission of Covid-19.

♢ Masks of all types have negative impacts on some people, including headaches, difficulty breathing, increased cardio-pulmonary stress during exercise, marked discomfort, and weakened social bonds.

♢ Because humans create carbon dioxide as they breathe, the CO2 concentration of the air they exhale is about 100 times higher than in fresh air. Masks restrict airflow and thus cause the wearers to rebreathe some of the air they exhale.

♢ The average CO2 concentrations inhaled by people wearing N95 masks range from 2.6 to 7.0 times OSHA’s work shift limit for CO2. These levels cause headaches and chest pains in some people.

♢ The average CO2 concentrations inhaled by people wearing cloth and surgical masks range from 2 to 3 times the government CO2 limits for classrooms in many countries. These levels may impair certain high-level brain functions like initiative, strategic thinking, and complex decision-making.

The last 4 are particularly important. These show the harm caused by mask wearing.
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October 1, 2021 8:01am
- surfing
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You cherry pick studies that support your views, and don’t post links.
  
  Here are actual links that contradict your lay person opinion…
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
  
  https://www.poverty-action.org/publication/impact-community-masking-covid-19-cluster-randomized-trial-bangladesh
  
  https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.00504/full
  
  And here is a study that you might quote…
  https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
  
  But, read the study, low number of participants, who self-reported mask wearing- even the authors recognise these limitations.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:16am
  - krazykiwi
    
    For references, refer to my reply to Benedict below. And you want to play the ‘cherry picked’ line of defence? Really?
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:30am
  - kowtow
    
    Cherrypicking ?
    
    Try the lancet and the lack of declaration of conflict /interest re the 26 “scientists” and the lab escape theory .
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:40am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Surfing, you should read your links for a change, and even try to understand them.
    
    That Bangladesh study is worthless. It has three major strikes against it. First, there was no impact at all for the <50 age group, all the effect noted was in the older ages, and they make no explanation of why masking should be different by age. Second, they paid the participants with the payment depending on a positive outcome, so a very strong inducement for those participants to game the outcome and thus skew the results. And Third, even with the above problems, the results are NOT significant at the 95% (3 sigma) level – zero is included in their error margins for the result.
    
    All it shows is that if you conduct a study badly enough and get the result that many desperately desire, you can get it published and publicised regardless of its defects.
    
    The weight of evidence is absolutely clear, Masks. Don’t. Work. And people who push them are simply authoritarian wannabes with a fondness for the theatre of the absurd, and downright stupid if they actually believe that they actually work against Covid. But I think you’ll find that all the authorities pushing mask mandates actually do know that they are useless, they are just addicted to their power to force people to do things they really don’t want to do.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:00am
    - Ra Henare
      
      And also, if you take the results at face value. The difference between masked group and control group as per their numbers 1% !!!!!!!!!!!!!
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:30pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  “Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” – Marie Curie
  
  Exactly kk. Over 50 Scientific Studies Conclude Masks Do Nothing to Prevent the Spread of Illness, So Why Do People Keep Claiming They Work? ?
  
  The science on mask efficacy is settled and has been for a very long time. Contrary to popular belief, every single RCT ever performed on mask usage and prevention of infection for laboratory-confirmed influenza, the common cold, or other respiratory viruses shows that masks are ineffective.
  
  So why do people keep claiming that they do?
  
  https://www.dailyveracity.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/States-with-masks-vs-states-without-masks-1.jpg
  
  Prior to mask mandates, surgical masks were infrequently worn in hospitals and other medical facilities. Facemasks were mainly only used in operating rooms or for visiting seriously ill patients in order to prevent spit or droplets into open wounds and to partially protect against serious diseases which are much larger in size than coronavirus or influenza.
  
  The vast majority of gold-standard scientific research compiled over multiple decades, conclude masks are completely ineffective at preventing the spread of respiratory illnesses.
  
  So why do many of those in “authority” now force us to wear them? ?
  
  https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:17am
- Scott
  
  When I walk around Masterton and everyone is wearing a mask I do wonder what is the purpose of this? Here in the Wairarapa we haven’t had a single case of Covid this year.
  
  The reason for it I believe is social control. It shows that you are compliant. It shows that you are obeying the government.
  It also continues to heighten fear in the community. If we all have to wear masks then this must be a terribly serious thing.
  
  It’s all about control and compliance. Socialist governments like our own love a population that is fearful and compliant.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:24am
  - ecco
    
    At least half the pedestrians walking down the Main Street of my Auckland suburb aren’t wearing masks. They couldn’t give a toss anymore.
    
    Loads of police cars driving up and down that street all day. They should divert those cars over to South Auckland or commission them to take people to vaccine appointments instead of paying for taxis.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:20am
  - DeepBlue
    
    In my South Island town you hardly see a mask outside, but people do put them on to go inside shops etc. Personally I think this is the right balance as it shows social empathy for the poor shop workers who have to wear masks all day and the low risk outside.
    
    If anyone should revolt first on mass it should be the shop workers, then the govn will know they have lost their union backing.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:53am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Notice how many masked people have their noses out? I think this might be a form of civil disobedience.
    
    It might also be for general health. Since we’ve been required to mask I’ve developed an intermittent sniffle, and I never have sniffles.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:17am
    - Ehlana
      
      I heard recently from a flight attendant that passengers on the plane were wearing their masks – over their eyes, to help them sleep.
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You have to wear a mask to prevent a disease that you may not even know you have = and be tested to tell you if you are infected or not.
    Also, a vax that does not prevent Covid is NOT a vax, it is medication. All lies from Jaspinda and her commie cronies
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:14am
- JibberJabber
  
  Can I just quote the venerable Dr Ashley Bloomfield quoting the esteemed Dr Anthony Fauci?
  “You can wear a mask if you like, but they don’t do anything.”
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    Or Swimming isn’t swimming if you’re a friend of an influencer.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Pink makes you immune – did you know that??
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:15am
- Yvette
  
  Not So Krazykiwi –
  You appear right that, in being forced to wear a mask, much of the CO2 concentration breathed out is immediately re-inhaled, especially by anyone who is “breathless” and has a higher than normal breathing rate.
  
  I have two blocked arteries in the heart, but the capillaries around the blockages have apparently expanded (clever little buggers) to carry sufficient blood flow to maintain near normal heart function, but this miraculous development does not have any inbuilt leeway for extra blood-oxygen need, such as the effort (with severe arthritis) of getting in or out of the low-seated car, or climbing stairs, so you breath heavier and more rapidly, intaking the CO2 you just exhaled, which doesn’t seem to help that much!
  
  Meantime, while the mask does seem a breathing hinderance, it still fogs up people’s glasses indicating an escape of moisture, so airborne transmission or through small respiratory droplets, which in a covid positive person could indicate a viral spread beyond the mask.
  
  The international nincompoop [1] who advocated triple masking, would surely only exacerbate both problems (breathing and fogging glasses – still a viral transmission) and see more people with glasses walking into glass doors or falling over a gutter, as happens now, and triple the time taken and the entanglement experienced especially by 1-News journalists in removing their masks, before dropping Maori words all over the place.
  
  [1] from the given name Nicholas or from Nicodemus (by association with the Pharisee of this name and his naive questioning of Christ) compare with French nicodème ‘simpleton’
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Those ‘clever little buggers’ are responding to lower oxygen concentrations just like populations who live at altitude (~3,500m+).
    
    Hypercapnia – an excess of Co2 in the blood – is something our bodies have never needed to adapt to. That’s the primary source of the negative effects listed.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:11am
- Inandout
  
  krazy, but what better way to control the populace where even those with genuine exemptions are routinely barred from entering shops. I look at the mask wearing sheep entering malls and the way they dutifully scan the codes and despair at the level we have sunk merely to be seen as ‘complying’. And when (or if) Cindy decrees a maskless lower level the sheep will remove their masks at the stroke of midnight. It really is scary.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:16am
- Chris R
  
  Thanks for this. As one of my sons rather crudely puts it; if a thick pair of denim jeans can’t stop a fart how can a cotton mask stop a virus?
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:37am
- NoCash
  
  My layman’s understanding of mask wearing is that while it doesn’t stop transmission completely it reduces the viral load, which would likely give you a better chance to fight and recover. Even if a mask has a 50% leakage, if both the infectious person and you are wearing a mask, your viral load from this encounter would only be 25% compared to if both were not wearing a mask.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:57am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    For viral load just look to the vaccinated–they carry more.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:58am
    - ByGolly
      
      That info was new to me so did a quick search.
      I couldn’t find anything that mentioned more V load, but many saying same viral load among vaccinated. BMJ among them .
      Interesting.
      
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      October 1, 2021 12:50pm
    - NoCash
      
      So it’s even more important to wear a mask if you’re vaccinated then, to reduce transmission.
      
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      October 1, 2021 3:10pm
Yvette

Ardern’s Achilles heel?
Has anyone else, pondering while on the morning loo, or in thoughts that came down with the last shower, wondered about Jacinda Ardern’s propensity to shove some issues sideways into working groups, and committees to report back, (until National lost count at about 200) – for everything from the first pre-2017 Election puzzle of charging farmers a water royalty (tax), that resulted in a Tax Working Group recommendation of a Capital Gains Tax that was then discussed in a “national conversation” without Ardern offering her side of the argument for anyone to actually talk about – through to the issue of mental health, which saw one report-back that was then fed out again to nine consultive groups, to finally result in a ten year plan?

Then there is her internationally reported refusal to ever utter Christchurch’s terrorist Tarrant’s name (merde – I just did it! ), and now her notable refusal again to utter an accurate vaccination target, while her six other Ministers of Health (SIX, says something too – Bloomfield, Hipkins, Wiles, Little, Ayesha Jennifer Verrall, and Peeni Henare, and not counting herself) have set about 90 percent, but Ardern ‘absolutely’ refuses to give a number.

Is this propensity a sign of a deep-rooted psychiatric NIMBY disorder – or dependent personality disorder (DPD) – or just an extension of Ardern’s own words (NEXT magazine interview (just after Little had forced her to become Labour Leader but not yet Prime Minister) that “I just feel like there’s more people to let down now. I do feel an enormous amount of pressure because I know there are lots of people who don’t want me to screw up, and there are just as many who would really love it if I did.” [1]

Is this mental tendinitis and Ardern’s University of Waikato Bachelor of Communication Studies (BCS) in politics and public relations, the reasons why so much is said (quite often in slogans – and, besmirchingly, in Te Reo cultural misappropriation, or lingual recolonisation) and so little is done?

Or does Occam’s Razor again slice through all the above crap and the reality is that “Elections are still won and lost in Auckland … and Auckland will be key to another term” – so you relax levels although the you may have up to 12 cases to be epidemiologically linked (29 September), but instigated the Auckland Level 4 Lockdown when you had only one such case – and not uttering “90 percent” doesn’t hold you to political blame if Pfizer is eventually a fizzer, or if 100 percent of those eligible for vaccination is only 84 percent of the whole population, and 90 percent of those eligible (over 12’s) is just 75.6 of the entire Team of Five Million? Huh? 

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/poll-jacinda-ardern-s-popularity-plummets.html
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October 1, 2021 8:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  “mental tendinitis” .. love it.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Her achilles heel may well be her desire to be liked/loved.
  
  I have a psychobabble theory
  (serious readers may depart at this time)
  
  That being the child of Policeman our Dear Leader may not have been the most popular little girl in school.
  
  (Seriously folks, did any of us who came from working class districts ever befriend the kids of the local cop? Did our parents socialise with the Cops?)
  
  It strikes me that Our Dear Leader’s overt display of empathy (interspersed with her bouts of threats and nasty sulks) is just some coping mechanism to cover the fact that she lacks good friendships.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:01am
  - kevn
    
    @Maggy… Probably hoovers up any opportuniddy.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:26am
  - Yvette
    
    Maggy Wassilieff, your “psychobabble theory” (cop father, coping mechanism) could be the childhood origin of Ardern’s present disposition, as I suggest it may now be, and the connection is that often “Very little of what I have done has been deliberate. It’s intuitive” – Ardern, In the wake of New Zealand’s worst terror attack [1]
    
    Being interviewed by Toby Manhire, Ardern crosses the office to her desk and pulls an A4 sheet of paper from a drawer. It’s been folded in half, and in half again, and again [2]. Printed on the back is the running order for an event she hosted in Auckland the night before the attack. On the front are a series of notes, scrawled in Ardern’s rounded handwriting, growing more hurried and less legible as they cross the page. A handful of words have been highlighted in bright orange.
    
    One person custody may be other offndr.
    Act of exraordnry violence. It has no place in NZ.
    They are us. [3]
    
    … I knew what I wanted to say about that straight away. But, no, I didn’t think about particular words. I just thought about sentiments, and what I thought needed to be conveyed.”
    
    Maybe ‘good’, in this case – not so much at other times.
    
    [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/06/jacinda-ardern-intuitive-courage-new-zealand
    [2] 3 folds stopping well short of 7. See https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/12/21/1523497.htm for useless information to enhance you Friday
    [3] Would the proposed film THEY ARE US have been authentic enough to reveal the abbreviation and spelling mistake?
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:36am
    - Yvette
      
      And further, Maggy Wassilieff, having just been to the loo again and sitting there contemplating things, I wonder if either of us are guilty of “hate speech”, not that immediately “When you see it, you know it,” or are we off the hook because, as Faafoi has indicated, the proposals are also focused on speech inciting hatred in other people towards a group, rather than towards one individual?
      Although that leaves simple defamation.
      
      See, comedian Frankie Boyle said of Donald Trump: “a man so obnoxious that karma may see him reincarnated as himself”
      And Frankie also said “All presidents come into office with something to prove, it’s just rarely their sanity.”
      
      The first statement may be “hate speech” but is he, Frankie Boyle, guilty in his second statement, or are we, in slightly questioning Jacinda’s total mental wellbeing?
      Or regarding Ardern’s edicts on covid, and it, in her own words being “a life or death” matter, are we legitimately quite entitled to wonder about some of her judgements and the motivation behind them?
      
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      October 1, 2021 10:54am
  - Paulus
    
    Not only being the child of a policeman but within that having been brought up within the Mormon Church for 25 years.
    Will that not also have an effect ?
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:39am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “(SIX, says something too – Bloomfield, Hipkins, Wiles, Little, Ayesha Jennifer Verrall, and Peeni Henare, and not counting herself) have set about 90 percent, but Ardern ‘absolutely’ refuses to give a number.”
  
  More than 6 Yvette, David Parker on the AM show last week said exactly the same thing and was called out on it immediately for naming a target that Ardern wouldn’t. Despite uttering those exact words not a few seconds earlier, he flat out denied it. Astonishingly, the headline on Newshub referred only to stirring up trouble in the National Party and Simon Bridges’ hair.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/used-up-has-been-simon-bridges-on-the-future-of-the-national-party-and-his-hair.html
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:17am
  - Yvette
    
    Loddenthinks
    And we forgot Grant Robertson
    – but then who might not want to?
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:07pm
- DeepBlue
  
  It’s worth clicking the link to NewsHub to remind ourselves how far the Emporer’s clothing has fallen.
  
  Looking back to 2017 JA certainly was portrayed as a star and a youthful, progressive, shining light for the young and women voter. I barely recognise her now…. such betrayal.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:06am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
One way to free up the housing market is to let Covid rip through the oldies. Free the log jam of generational wealth, I say.
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October 1, 2021 8:02am
- Flossie
  
  Why not just make compulsory euthanasia a thing then? What kind of horrible person are you.
  And kindly define “oldies”.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:17am
- Jamesvicar
  
  What a thoughtless selfish comment. You will be old one day.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:34am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Yes, but they’ll be living in a home bought and paid for with the money someone else has earned, Comrade.
    “You vill own nussink and you vill be happy!”
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:02am
  - lifesgood
    
    A lefty remark if ever I heard one. So typical, full of hatred, bile and too lazy to get off his/her chuff and earn his/her own money
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:13am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Only if I’m lucky
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:27am
- cmm
  
  CV19 does not materially change the housing market or flow of wealth.
  
  CV19 average death age is the same as life expectancy, so all it is going to do is time shift deaths by a few months.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:43am
- kowtow
  
  Other than being a nasty anti person/private property sentiment , the problem with your argument , I would suggest is the majority of deaths won’t be of nice middle class types you were expecting to kark .
  
  There could be a dearth of tenants though for tenements , slums ,state housing , under bridge accomodation ,trailer parks , lower socio economic areas , half way houses etc
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:45am
- Inandout
  
  Bollocks, have you thought for one moment disease or fatal accident may curtail your attaining old age?
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:21am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  There is yet another qualitative difference between experience of Boomers and earlier generations and those that have come since; Boomers had parents who on average died about 6-7 years younger than they do now – handing on their accumulated capital having spent a lot less of it through retirement. There were also large numbers with parents who smoked and died in their early 60’s saving pension and health care costs of extended retirements and seeing inheritances more frequently handed on to parents with kids at home to allow them to prosper economically. This essentially never happens now.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:21am
- The Boss
  
  Down ticked and reported.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:36am
- rockape
  
  So long as your happy that my 1.6 million dollar house goes to my multi millionaire son in the uk. Give him a nice holiday home to visit.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:48am
- Lance
  
  You are assuming there is an actual shortage of buildings called houses.
  I used to think it was bollix that there were 30,000 empty houses in Auckland alone, but I now know it is true. There are dozens and dozens of empty houses in my neighborhood alone.
  The capital value is rising so fast that for many investors it’s just not worth the hassle of having tenants.
  I don’t know how this shit show is going to be sorted?
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:18am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Black humour. I, an oldie, enjoyed it. Perhaps some readers need trigger warnings.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:50am
Tony Stuart

Matthew Hooton is in good form this morning, even when taken with a pinch of salt:

Ardern’s new incoherence includes saying on some days that vaccination rates are considered in decisions about ongoing restrictions, and others days saying they aren’t. Some days she implies liberalisation requires vaccination of 90 per cent of everyone aged 12 or over, and in every regional, socioeconomic, age and ethnic group. Other days Beehive strategists deny any target and imply liberties could be restored below 90 per cent coverage.

Insofar as “the science” ever drove political decisions on Covid, it clearly doesn’t now.

Similarly, when Sir John Key wrote a column and Act and National made their most serious and constructive Covid contributions to date, the Beehive couldn’t decide if their proposals would put us on a path to apocalypse or were government policy anyway.

Instead, it opted for a standard Beehive smear campaign, led by Finance Minister Grant Robertson, Covid Minister Chris Hipkins and a new addition to the cabaret, the Prime Minister’s fiance, Clarke Gayford. National, the Beehive chortled, wants to give you Covid for Christmas. Ho ho ho.

Playing the person not the ball was Ardern’s only option since she will inevitably pick up the Opposition’s ideas very soon, as she has done ever since Covid emerged in Wuhan.

On cue, Beehive strategists insisted more “work” is under way on Ardern’s liberalisation plans, about which they claim she will say more over coming weeks.

They swear normalisation remains her goal and not permanent social control. While unclear if Ardern’s “work” involves more than plagiarising their proposals, the Opposition should be applauded for injecting urgency into Ardern’s dithering towards post-vaccine realities.

If Ardern looks like a possum in the headlights, that’s because the vaccination bus is about to run over her.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-national-and-act-give-jacinda-ardern-a-shot-of-urgency/M64QSBDZ4ECI5I5MSH4JFTISAM/

Shot Bro!
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October 1, 2021 8:04am
- igm
  
  This says it all:
  https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/10/01/political-weasels-what-to-look-for/
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:29am
- I remember when
  
  Jacinda was back to the pen clicking thing again at Question Time.
  Does Elimination mean Eradication.
  Do we really have to have open up to the outside world again.
  So soon.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:29am
- I remember when
  
  “The vaccination bus is about to run her over.”
  At least she will know where it is.
  She won’t be on National Television telling us were to meet it after it has already left.
  Who knows, perhaps she was on the bus.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:39am
  - ecco
    
    Have we ever even seen her appear in Auckland lately to show some moral support or is she holed up in her Wellington getaway.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:24am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      She’ll claim that she can’t go to Auckland because it’s locked down. I’m sure that, as Prime Minister, she could make a good case that she’s an essential worker.
      
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      October 1, 2021 10:59am
      - alex Masterley
        
        The one plus I can think of for lock down is that the PM is not in Auckland.
        
        6 1
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        October 1, 2021 11:02am
- kowtow
  
  There never was a plan .
  
  Italy copied China with lockdowns and we copied them . That was it . And a phone call from some unknown overseas wallah.
  
  That was to flatten the curve to protect the hospitals which remained empty , while every thing else went untreated .
  
  That became elimination which has now become “stamp out”
  
  Under cover of all this is an all out unprecedented assault on the constitution .
  
  And yet the low intelligence voter , along with the fearful are still impressed.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:50am
  - plc
    
    I’ve heard Darren Hughes described as a lot of things….”unknown overseas wallah” is probably one of the kindest.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:09am
    - kowtow
      
      Talking of running around in a panic …… no don’t go there.
      
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      October 1, 2021 9:38am
  - Ed Snack
    
    We are, after all, at about day 500 of the “15 days to flatten the curve”.
    
    Didn’t do much to the curve in most places, but sure flattened the economy, and continues to do so.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:07am
- cas
  
  For a person who said in a women’s magazine a few years ago that she was too much of an anxious person to ever be PM, I keep on wondering how she gets through all these crises which we seem to have ( though I can’t for the life of me work out what she ever did about White Island other than hug a few people). Suddenly she’s not an anxious person any more?
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:42am
Warren

Ouch.
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October 1, 2021 8:07am
Frank the tank

My tealeaves are that outbreaks will be recognized in more ‘upmarket’ suburbs over the next few days just to put the cat amongst the pigeons.

This is far more widespread that we have been led to believe.

“Stamp it out”. Lol. Do the PM’s minders spend their whole time coming up with cute phases for her to use.
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October 1, 2021 8:09am
- Southern Raider
  
  That’s because tradies from the Sth and West are now swarming the inner city suburbs to rectify 8 weeks of no gardening, finishing the half started extension, get the new deck ready for summer etc
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:37am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Indeed. And did you notice that Henderson was added to the list of suburbs of interest yesterday? It’s Tradie Central out there.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:52am
    - Frank the tank
      
      No that’s ‘social’ housing in Hendo Tony. Obviously a drug deal went down………
      
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      October 1, 2021 9:49am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Do the PM’s minders spend their whole time coming up with cute phases for her to use’
  
  Yep. That and phone calls to the political editors of all our major “news” organisations.
  
  This is a very cynical and manipulative regime.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:52am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No, they are written for her by PR companies who contract to the Government and earn hundreds of thousands of dollars for shite like “hard and early”, “team of five million” and “be kind”.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:00am
    - plc
      
      $16 million for the first batch
      
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      October 1, 2021 9:11am
    - MCos
      
      Judith Collins has to make do with Cameron Slater, or so he says.
      
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      October 1, 2021 11:19am
- notreadyet
  
  Yes there is a huge spin team and expensive advertising agency developing all the quick one lines that she uses.
  Bumper sticker slogans (very effective mine you regardless of how correct they may be) has been at the heart of her offerings
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:43am
Benedict Yu

Thanks for that. I concede I have done no reading on mask efficacy.

Given the strong evidence that masks are useless, do you have any theories about why medical professionals, epidemiologists, and governments around the world have mandated masks to reduce COVID transmission?

If I do a quick Google search I can find peer reviewed meta analysis that conclude that masks are highly effective at reducing the transmission of COVID.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

I’m just saying there seems to be a hell of a lot of credible studies that conclude that masks are effective.
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October 1, 2021 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Apologies that was a reply to krazikiwi above.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:16am
  - surfing
    
    krazykiwi already downticked you 🙂
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:19am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Cheers surfing. Have a nice day 🙂
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:27am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        one of the reasons I’ve become somewhat addicted to this site. Some amusing banter around serious topics to lighten the gloom, toleration of opposing views, some of which can be quite rational, a good moderation process that stops the real nasty crap stuff. With the good weather starting to arrive an indoor/outdoor conflict is developing.
        
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        October 1, 2021 10:13am
- Cinematic
  
  I’d say because it kind of makes sense to the masses (pseudo science) and is a great signalling tool for how deadly the covid is (control).
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:23am
  - kowtow
    
    I saw a driver , funnily enough for a district health board vehicle , driving down a hill having just negotiated a bend , take both hands off the wheel …..
    
    ….. to adjust his mask .
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:55am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  A lot of operating theatres don’t require masks to be worn. In the ones that do, it is usually to reduce foreign body risk (skin, saliva, sweat, eyelashes, hair etc). If your glasses fog while wearing a mask that is evidence that they don’t reduce aerosol transmission.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:25am
  - kowtow
    
    In a surgical setting the masks are no doubt disposed of after use .
    
    We Plebs , wearing the theatrical version , wear them ungloved all day long , pawing them and transferring moisture to all and sundry surfaces , back into pockets etc which are hardly sterile …..
    
    It’s a farce.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A few weeks ago I had general anesthetic for prostate biopsy. About 20 people in the theatre and not a single mask to be seen
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:22am
- krazykiwi
  
  Here’s a collection of 10 theories on why and how mask wearing has become normalised.
  
  Here’s some heavy duty evidence of their efficacy.
  
  And here’s the best visual clip on the topic.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:26am
  - kevn
    
    @kk…. I have my manky old mask (courtesy of CountDown) that I pull out and wear to keep the sad retailers happy. Not their fault.
    They are just worried about being potted by an eagle eyed customer.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:51am
- Ra Henare
  
  BY, did you actually read that paper?
  
  To be kind, its an opinion piece.
  
  The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission characteristics, source control, wearer protection, sociological considerations, and implementation considerations
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:28am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I am sure you have read some of the 1 million non credible reports that have been removed.
  Thanks Google for protecting my thoughts.
  Some masks can effective against blood spills, any mask nurse will run through the various masks and their use.
  Watching the public wear and handle these useless face nappies, Educating the public how to wear a surgical mask has a huge way to go.
  With half the population being nostril flashers, the whole debacle is fear and scare porn, very little to do with stopping a virus.
  Just be compliant and we will let you do as you please.
  They are coming into their own in Melbourne, the cops are providing plenty of blood spills free of charge.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:30am
  - alloytoo
    
    Hey Hey nostril flashing is a sign of defiance.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:03am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Well Benedict there are these findings:
  
  A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.
  
  A Danish randomized controlled trial with 6000 participants, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in November 2020, found no statistically significant effect of high-quality medical face masks against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a community setting.
  
  A large randomized controlled trial with close to 8000 participants, published in October 2020 in PLOS One, found that face masks “did not seem to be effective against laboratory-confirmed viral respiratory infections nor against clinical respiratory infection.”
  
  A February 2021 review by the European CDC found no high-quality evidence supporting the effectiveness of non-medical and medical face masks in the community. Furthermore, the European CDC advised against the use of FFP2/N95 masks by the general public.
  
  A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks against virus infection or transmission.
  
  A November 2020 Cochrane review found that face masks did not reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases, neither in the general population nor in health care workers.
  
  An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control).
  
  An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life.
  
  A 2015 study in the British Medical Journal BMJ Open found that cloth masks were penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use.
  
  An August 2020 review by a German professor in virology, epidemiology and hygiene found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks and that the improper daily use of masks by the public may in fact lead to an increase in infections.
  
  And from WHO in mid 2020, this: –
  
  Guidance on mask use in community settings
  
  At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks and a control group found no difference in infection with SARS-CoV-2 (76). A recent systematic review found nine trials (of which eight were cluster-randomized controlled trials in which clusters of people, versus individuals, were randomized) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no
  masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness. Two trials were with healthcare workers and seven in the community. The review concluded that wearing a mask may make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44); the certainty of the evidence was low for ILI, moderate for LCI
  
  “There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly,” Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.
  (March 2020)
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:38am
- cmm
  
  BY: Of course masks work for some applications (eg. when a sick person is coughing and expelling droplets), but the question KK is raising (I think) is whether putting masks on well people makes any sense.
  
  There is always a problem with meta studies (ie. studies of the findings of studies) because they destroy information further than regular studies and hide the methods. You need to dig into the individual studies themselves to determine their relevance to what you are investigating.
  
  If you read the link you mention, there are some obvious issues.
  
  For example in many cases the mask was only part of the picture and was also combined with hand washing etc.
  
  Unless it is a proper randomised trial, then the people who are carefully wearing masks are probably also more concerned about other things and are avoiding crowded places.
  
  In one case, the meta study includes a study about sick people wearing masks and the benefits of catching droplets caused by coughing etc. I don’t think anyone is disputing that this is a beneficial use case for mask wearing (I am sure KK does not dispute that), but this is completely irrelevant when it comes to well people walking around with masks on.
  
  As for lab tests, all the ones I’ve looked at are nonsense and have no application to well people wearing masks.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:40am
  - krazykiwi
    
    You’re right cmm. If I’m coughing or worse, sneezing I’ll stay home if at all possible. If I have to go out I’ll wear a mask. There’s enough of evidence of masks preventing droplet-borne illness to make this reasonable.
    
    But aerosols? Nope. It’s utter madness to think wearing anything other than a Bio Hazard Level 4 suit will make even the slightest different to transmission of pathogens.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:20am
- Taieri
  
  Given the strong evidence that masks are useless, do you have any theories about why medical professionals, epidemiologists, and governments around the world have mandated masks to reduce COVID transmission?
  ———————
  
  For the same reasons that medical professionals, epidemiologists and governments around the world have mandated lockdowns and other strange but useless restrictions. Such as curfews for example. They have to be seen to be “doing something”. Still, why does this “something” include imposition of recent Level4 in the South Island, where there’re no positive tests in more than a year? What do the meta-studies say about that?
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:48am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    OK thanks for all the replies.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    “Given the strong evidence that masks are useless”
    
    Nope, not useless. Just useless on most people most of the time.
    
    When there are people coughing/sneezing their guts out then masks are useful – and far more useful on the sick person to stop stuff going out rather than on the person being coughed on.
    
    If you’re a facing a person coughing/sneezing droplets at you then a face shield is probably a better option.
    
    Neither face shields nor the masks that most people wear have any meaningful impact on aerosols.
    
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    October 1, 2021 4:03pm
- Ed Snack
  
  That seems to be a political spin article. It starts by quoting a 1910 observation that masks seemed to be effective against plague (a disease primarily spread by ticks and fleas, so not sure if the ticks and fleas wore the masks) and goes on to quote a variety of poorly controlled studies.
  
  Makes zero mention of any modern study such as the Danish 2020 one (Bungaard et al), or any others that had a negative outcome.
  
  Also fail to mention observational studies of adjacent locations that have differing mask requirements, which show that when controlled for known differences, there is no difference in transmission between a mask mandate area with a high compliance and a no mandate area.
  
  Masks are theatre, and there is considerable interest from authoritarians to make them mandatory as a means of punishing the general population. PNAS should be ashamed of such shoddy work.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:15am
- bronny1
  
  Thanks Benedict and Krazy for having such a reasonable, rational discussion. Not many people manage it these days, it is appreciated by at least some of us who seek to become more informed.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:54am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That is the way it should be here. I fully expect people to passionately disagree with some of my opinions. But we should be respectful of each other. I may not do that 100 percent of the time but I try.
    
    I visited that communist blog ‘The Standard’ once. Never commented. After 20 minutes I was horrified at the abuse and hate. Not sure how long it has been around for but it is very revealing of how communists behave.
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:49pm
    - miltonF
      
      Thanks BY. I always enjoy your contributions. I agree with you most of the time but occasionally you throw out a real blinder!
      
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      October 1, 2021 3:04pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Thanks bronny1. It’s good getting to understand someone else’s ‘angle’ on a topic. In my experience there’s usually agreement somewhere, and being polite about the differences is civil, and sometimes educational. There are some nasty/objectionable people around, but they mostly get their ass handed to them on plate, either by the community or by the mods [ peace be upon them 🙂 ]
    
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    October 1, 2021 2:23pm
- NoFax
  
  If I was to out out the best case forward for masks it is this. First, it has taken a while for WHO and CDC and others to admit that Covid is airborne – for us layman it means aerosols or very small particles. Read this to get the background https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
  
  So for a long time the health experts were thinking droplets and surfaces, therefore, wash your hands and stand 1 to 2 metres apart. The aerosol aspect was ignored. This has now changed and it appears that the majority, if not all, cases of Covid are from the small particles.
  
  One of the earlier Kiwiblog commentators who is pro-masks posted the Nature article proving the efficacy of masks. However, the article concludes “Our findings indicate that surgical masks can efficaciously reduce the emission of influenza virus particles into the environment in respiratory droplets, but not in aerosols”. Therefore, it isn’t going to protect a person from getting Covid via aerosols which appear to be the main way of getting Covid.
  
  However, it appears that masks may prevent a person passing on Covid, maybe. There have been no RCT for the use of masks and even our Dr. Bloomfield stated that it probably isn’t possible as there can’t be controlled – I know if I have a mask on or not! Most of the studies are observational or in a lab and have not proven conclusively one way or another. Here is an article demonstrating the point https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248099
  
  If I was a betting man though, then I would say that masks seem to have very little effect. We can see in different states in the US have had the same Covid path with or without a mask mandate. Similar, East Asia where mask use is rather normal, it appears have not done better than anywhere else or if they have, eg Taiwan, it is because of other reasons. And this does not even get into whether people are using masks correctly.
  
  It appears the best thing we can do is improve the ventilation of our indoor environments. I don’t see any credible scietific study stating that a mask will prevent you from getting Covid – at best it seems you are less likely to pass it on. But since I don’t have Covid I am pretty sure I can’t pass it on!
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:30am
Vory v zakone

“Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” – Marie Curie

Exactly kk. Over 50 Scientific Studies Conclude Masks Do Nothing to Prevent the Spread of Illness, So Why Do People Keep Claiming They Work? ?

The science on mask efficacy is settled and has been for a very long time. Contrary to popular belief, every single RCT ever performed on mask usage and prevention of infection for laboratory-confirmed influenza, the common cold, or other respiratory viruses shows that masks are ineffective.

So why do people keep claiming that they do?

https://www.dailyveracity.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/States-with-masks-vs-states-without-masks-1.jpg

Prior to mask mandates, surgical masks were infrequently worn in hospitals and other medical facilities. Facemasks were mainly only used in operating rooms or for visiting seriously ill patients in order to prevent spit or droplets into open wounds and to partially protect against serious diseases which are much larger in size than coronavirus or influenza.

The vast majority of gold-standard scientific research compiled over multiple decades, conclude masks are completely ineffective at preventing the spread of respiratory illnesses.

So why do many of those in “authority” now force us to wear them? ?

https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work
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October 1, 2021 8:13am
Frank the tank

Why did we get a sermon from St Ash about long Kungflu yesterday? More Fear Porn?
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October 1, 2021 8:13am
- Taieri
  
  Why do we have these daily sermons at all? Daily press release would do just fine.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Daily sermons are the only source of truth //
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:27am
artemisia

a completely absent sense of constitutional propriety

I wonder what and who Dr Bassett is referring to. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/
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October 1, 2021 8:16am
Master Mariner

Pretty much what I have been saying for 18 months regarding Crew returning to and from work on Shipping.

https://theloadstar.com/industry-associations-say-supply-chains-are-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

“In the letter, the associations reminded governments of earlier warnings from transport heads, but, it says, “states failed to listen or take decisive and co-ordinated action”. Instead, politicians “shifted the focus”.

Hence my total “Disdain” in the likes of Green MP’s and Wiggles getting a free pass into MIQ.
And,
https://todayuknews.com/economy/governments-must-relieve-supply-chain-turmoil-says-shipping-boss/

“If left entirely to the market economy, individual companies and individuals all doing their utmost to find the best solution for themselves will result in more and more turmoil and an out-of-control situation,” he said.

Hashimoto added that while it was critical to respect the spirit of the free-market economy and competition, at the same time, global shipping was a kind of infrastructure industry on which economies relied.”

Could’nt agree more. However NZ is the ONLY Government restricting KEY WORKERS ( Seafarers in My Case) From ENTERING their own country in Keeping Supply Chains operating.
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October 1, 2021 8:18am
- Master Mariner
  
  “Just yesterday, trade groups representing $20 TRILLION of annual world trade, 65 million global transport workers, more than 3.5 million road freight and airline companies, and over 80% of the world merchant shipping fleet warned that the global transport systems are on the verge of collapse. If that doesn’t make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, I don’t know what will.”
  And,
  “Let’s treat seafarers as the key and essential workers that they are (I’m looking at you, heads of government). Without ships and seafarers, we may as well be living in the Stone Ages.”
  
  https://gcaptain.com/its-time-to-stop-taking-shipping-and-seafarers-for-granted/
  
  Question: How complicit is Maritime NZ. My responses so far would suggest they are not even aware of the perfect Storm hitting little ole NZ.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:56am
  - Master Mariner
    
    “Let’s treat seafarers as the key and essential workers that they are (I’m looking at you, heads of government). Without ships and seafarers, we may as well be living in the Stone Ages.”
    
    From the previous aricle, Thats more relevant.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:59am
- Taieri
  
  However NZ is the ONLY Government restricting KEY WORKERS ( Seafarers in My Case) From ENTERING their own country
  ——————–
  
  Thus making NZ based seafarers unemployable since there’re a very few NZ based merchant ships still operating here…
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:06am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes, Its a sad state of affairs Taieri. Lots unable to go to work and of course return back home due to Micky Mouse MIQ.
    
    The real issue is the loss of skills and retraining which will take a decade at least if things went back to normal today.
    
    Maritime NZ is totally run by “Petticoat Pirates” now and lack of advice from them is nothing short of Negligence. MOT the same. All Political “Ring -Ins”.
    
    It really will turn out to be the Hermit Kingdom Unfortunately.
    
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    October 1, 2021 10:33am
Paulus

Can anybody confirm that an Overseas trip by Ardern and her then Husband is being arranged for November – honeymoon actually.
Am assuming that like Shaw and his 16 entourage she will have special exemption for her family and DPS staff accompanying which includes of course husband of Jessica and presumably then Tova.
Whers is she going and why
I would love to go to be with my family in Australia for Christmas too but I can’t get back like 30,000 others but not the special people like Politicians and friends and Sports people.
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October 1, 2021 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Also important, what about Daddy? How is he getting here and will he have to isolate?
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:44am
- plc
  
  “All animals are equal”
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:12am
- Bob
  
  honeymoon actually….
  Why does she need a Honeymoon? consummation occurred at least three years ago!
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:14am
  - Paulus
    
    Not for the media particularly the Overseas ones and the magazines.
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:40pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Sounds good to me, so long as they have to go to the back of the MIQ queue (which would be only fair).
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:20pm
I remember when

Oh dear. Poor Deborah Russell.
People just don’t realise that once you have moved in the hallowed halls of academia you just know so much more than everyone else.
Are people confused or is she slightly short-fused, dismissive.
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October 1, 2021 8:24am
Mobile Michael

I see a Covid positive case checked themselves out of hospital and has gone into hiding before they could be made subject to a health order.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-two-covid-exposures-at-middlemore-66-patients-are-close-contacts/KT2D33GDFFDDZJBZEJDEGB7XWU/

What kind of person would do that? (For clarity, that’s a rhetorical question.)
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October 1, 2021 8:31am
- Ruahine
  
  It is likely to be one of the Gov’ts useful idiots creating an excuse for the gov’t (a.k.a. the petulant PM Jacinda Ardern) to keep Auckland under Police control for another couple of weeks. After all it is only another $2 billion dollars.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:46am
Maggie Pie

We see where the man admitted to hospital yesterday in a critical condition with gunshot wounds following a police chase through Lilac Grove, has now been listed as….. ‘stable’.

My partner was just saying there’s no doubt this will be the subject of yet another lengthy IPCA enquiry, which will come just in time for Christmas for all the shiny-bum staff of the oversight body. He was wondering if there’s an equivalent civilian organisation that investigates the Police in the US?

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1443417145485021184
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October 1, 2021 8:39am
- Jimbo666
  
  With all the weaponry on display on last night’s TV news, to only wound the transgressor shows that they were aiming to incapacitate not take out?
  Otherwise they were pretty poor shots. Even the driver injured himself running away, without any help form the police.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:53am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I feel immense sympathy for any Police Officer who fires on a criminal. Not only do they have to deal with the trauma of knowing they have killed or seriously injured someone (and even the toughest, hardest bastards can be affected by this), but they also face multiple investigations where every single action is scrutinised in minute detail. Even when they were proven to have been justified in the use of force, there’ll always be a question mark hanging over them, and many leave the Police as a result.
  
  Put simply, if you present a firearm at Police, the chances are very strong that the outcome isn’t going to be good for your health and wellbeing. My thoughts are with the officers involved in yesterday’s incident.
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:58am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The other thing that is most upsetting….we currently have more than 81,000 in the public system waiting for surgeries, procedures and doctors appointments, many in real pain and distress, but all delayed due to the Delta outbreak.
    But they let the queue-jumpers in.
    SHEESH!!
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:19am
    - kevn
      
      @Maggie… I was one of those during last years level 4. ED visit and managed to get sorted at level 3/2.
      Lot’s of folk in medical/surgical/treatment limbo. Dreadful.
      The government has become NZ’s problem.
      Rooting NZ.
      
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      October 1, 2021 10:09am
  - cmm
    
    As one of the very few KBers that has legally shot a person, I agree. It is a very tough road for the cop even without the fact that he’s going to be dragged through the wringer backwards.
    
    Shooting someone requires some technical skill but also requires a lot of mental resilience and understanding what/why you are doing the shooting.
    
    For me it is that the person was shot by his own actions. I just happen to be the person who pulled the trigger. It is easy to get dragged into thinking about a crying mum or kids that won’t see their dad etc. Nope, sorry, I didn’t cause that to happen – the crim did by his actions.
    
    Training/preparation can help, but I doubt our cops are properly trained on dealing with this. All the softening of “crims are victims too” makes it harder for the cops.
    
    I hope they have excellent counseling services available.
    
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    October 1, 2021 4:27pm
- kowtow
  
  On tele I saw when he was being loaded onto the ambulance he appeared to be wearing oversized red shorts .
  
  A picture paints a thousand words.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:03am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Seems quarantine hotels in the UK are not as legal as people thought:

https://rumble.com/vn3mo9-no-quarantine-no-2000-10-day-hotel-prison-service-all-charges-dropped.html

And here is the excellent Strawman documentary that he refers to. Legal (contract by consent) or LAWFUL (the common law of the land, which the police are bound by). Definitely worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCQOPD618T8
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October 1, 2021 8:52am
dime

Have you all accepted the fact that you are going to get the rona in the next 2-3 years?

The only reason i care about vaccinations is because thats the thing that will get us out of lockdowns. the excuse will be taken away from the left. Hell, eyeball horse every night if ya want. i dont care.

I just hope youre all mentally preparted.

I took the double hotshot. so when the rona comes, best case im asystematic, or next best is the vaccine takes the edge off.

Also – take the time to help family members with their anxiety.

This 8 week lockdown has taken a toll on people.

Im lucky, never had any mental health issues (hooker addiction aside). But even I was starting to go a bit loopy for week 5.
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October 1, 2021 8:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’ve been prepared for the last 19 months…
  I’m not overexcited about being confined to NZ, but I think I have enough to keep me occupied until death comes knocking.
  
  My problem will be keeping hubby in check… He doesn’t mind the confinement – he hates travel – but he is going blind and is apt to use very expressive language when his hospital appointments are cancelled.
  
  I’ve discovered it is safest to switch channels or not have the TV on when our Dear PM graces the screen.
  I fear hubby will have an apoplectic fit if he hears her ~~dulcet tones~~ strident spiels.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:20am
  - dime
    
    Yeah be angry too!
    
    Eventually it will come out, just how much damage these lockdowns have done.
    
    Hard for people in their 70’s. Especially ones who have recently retired and planned on doing a bunch of big trips overseas. The last few travel years being taken away by a stinking virus and leftists
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:35am
    - Scooter
      
      I think you mean stinking lefties and a virus.
      
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      October 1, 2021 8:32pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    @MW –
    Well at least your hubby will be more likely to miss the TV should he want to throw something at the screen during the pulpit indoctrination shows.
    People here refuse to watch or listen to the Prime Minister – the worst one we have ever seen over many years of following politics.
    
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    October 1, 2021 9:46am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      tonnes of great podcasts available now. Why anyone would listen to TV for news or commentary is beyond me.
      
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      October 1, 2021 4:22pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Your double shot wears out in the next 3 months 6 months at best. It’s already degrading right now.
  
  How do you not know this? in 2-3 years you’ll be on your 13th booster, if i survive the 99.9% survivable virus i will natural antibodys and strong pure blood.
  
  You’re on boosters for life mate.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just like blood pressure pills
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:23pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Sorry Dime, apparently anxiety is a symptom of Long Covid, not lockdowns and draconian rules.
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If it was a true vaccine, you would not get Covid at all dime. Same as Polio, tetanis etc ect.
  You have been given medication or placebos
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:32am
- cmm
  
  Almost all will get infected by the virus in the next 2-3 years but relatively few will get Covid19 (ie. develop disease).
  
  You also have a more than even chance of being infected with flu in the next 2-3 years too.
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:32pm
JibberJabber

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/09/gangs-fear-miq-more-than-jail.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AsianInvasion2019+%28Asian+Invasion+2019%29

Gangs Fear MIQ More Than Jail
The gangs value their rights and freedoms more than the rest of us and are refusing to be tested because if positive they get sent to MIQ and it is stricter there than in jail.
Labour has more Maori and Pacific Island MP’s and Ministers than ever. Months of cuddling up to gangs and playing nice is not helping them here.

Gangs at least can get drugs and alcohol in jail and do whatever they want in the hierarchy in there.

They do not seem too afraid to end up there.

The risk and inconvenience to gang members of getting tested and positive and ending up in MIQ is higher than the risk of getting caught in New Zealand and convicted of a crime and being sent to jail!

The social contract has completely gone. This is all a nonsense.

The Bill of Rights has a justified limitations section. When breaches are made, they have to be reasonable. Having infinite breaches with no plan or timeline for their re-instatement is not reasonable.
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October 1, 2021 9:08am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Going to MIQ must be difficult for anyone addicted to drugs.
  
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  October 1, 2021 1:17pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126513186/sick-baby-denied-surgery-as-more-than-81000-people-face-delayed-healthcare

A few thoughts.
A caring govt.?
So we finally have and indication of surgery waiting list expansion….81000 delayed operations.
Back to the Clark era waiting lists and times.
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October 1, 2021 9:24am
- kowtow
  
  The Media pardy can have their cake and eat it.
  
  They promote Covid Fear Porn and get govt’s to lockdown , and now here’s the result of panicked Media driven lockdowns and the media are running stories on the dreadful consequences of lockdown.
  
  They have no shame , no sense of responsibility , irony or self awareness .
  
  They are disgusting hypocrites.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:47am
  - miltonF
    
    The defining feature of a leftist is they have no principles or morals. It’s all about power and control. Perception over reality.
    
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    October 1, 2021 3:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

If you get ill in Auckland, can you choose not to go to Middlemore?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-two-covid-exposures-at-middlemore-66-patients-are-close-contacts/KT2D33GDFFDDZJBZEJDEGB7XWU/
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October 1, 2021 9:26am
- Stu2
  
  After opening up the emphasis will change to hospital admissions, ICU and ventilator numbers and hospital capacity.
  
  Events like this will drop below the radar
  
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  October 1, 2021 9:36am
- JibberJabber
  
  Heh, twice in the last 20years I’ve ended up in Middleshithole with broken limbs, vowed to never go there ever again even if I’ve 2 broken legs, I’d be walking home given the state of the place, and that was 10 years before Covid.
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:47am
  - Inandout
    
    JJ, I remember once a doctor told me he was getting out of delivering babies because at Middlemore Hospital he felt like he was on a production line for the ‘brown under privileged’. Also it has been a run down facility for many decades.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:06am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I know a couple of people who’ve encountered dangerous incompetence at Middlemore. I’d generally advise against going there if you have a choice.
    
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    October 1, 2021 4:26pm
- Scooter
  
  Is the covid patient from Fiji still there?
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:35pm
graham

Can someone PLEASE tell Jacinda the word is “been” – not “bin”?

Heard her on Heather du Plessis-Allan yesterday afternoon, talking about the Government’s strategy to “stamp out the virus” (as opposed to “elimination” which has apparently been quietly dropped):

“Our strategy all the way through has BIN a stamp-it-out strategy …”

SURELY there must be someone in her team who actually (a) listens to what she says, and (b) could have a quiet word with her about how to pronounce these words correctly.
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October 1, 2021 9:43am
- Bob
  
  Another Labour failure!
  Failure to correct Arden’s elocution skills!
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:18am
- lifesgood
  
  They don’t teach them much in those communication degrees, do they?
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Bit of excitement on the hill last night.

The local p-dealer/meth imbiber and ex-resident of Kaiti Hill crashed a car into the concrete power pole at the end of my driveway after having ploughed through my roadside garden.

He managed to negotiate the car -minus a wheel – a bit further down the hill, before the car stalled and he did a runner.

I didn’t recognize him, as he was much thinner than a few years back when I last saw him… but a neighbour knew him.

Now I’ve got a load of glass and car-parts to clean up…and a section of garden to restore.

Can’t say that I’m feeling very sympathetic to the “marginalised” at the moment.
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October 1, 2021 9:48am
- cmm
  
  Maggy, if you find some coins in the couch you might get the mob to clean up the garden for you. I believe the going rate is about $3M.
  
  If colonialists didn’t put up concrete poles the poor sausage would not have damaged his car.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Or invented the wheel.
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    He is one of the “colonists”, not Tangata w’enua.
    
    (p.s. I’ve just noticed how Hansard is dealing with our W’anganui dialect)
    
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    October 1, 2021 12:07pm
Warren

What gutter Journalism by Newshub on Covid with all the comments on twitter to help the experts forecasting more hospitalisations and deaths from the Delta Strain of Covid – 19 over Christmas.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/covid-19-auckland-move-back-to-level-4-very-unlikely-despite-warning-of-hospitalisations-and-deaths-around-christmas.html
Read the Twitter comments from the doomsday experts attached.
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October 1, 2021 9:51am
- Stu2
  
  The explosion in NSW was at far lower vaccination rates than we are at now, and they have pulled it back by vaccinating furiously. Down from 1600 a day to 900.
  
  Comparing their trajectory with where ours might go is misleading
  
  I’m looking forward to the alarm merchants being sidelined
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:42am
Surely Knott

17 year old Teen dies after jab.

lAST NIGHT – Herald – “Death of teen after vaccination COULD be linked to other medication”

“Medsafe said in the report that the Covid-19 Vaccine Independent Safety Monitoring Board HAS REVIEWED the girl’s death and they don’t believe her recent vaccination was to blame.”

“It said the cause of her death is STILL BEING INVESTIGATED, including whether a medication the teen was on was involved.”

“The Board noted that expert haematology advice has been sought regarding other factors POTENTIALLY involved and a report had been made to CARM ….”

THIS MORNING = RNZ “Medsafe believes Pfizer vaccine NOT factor in death of teen”

“The Covid-19 Vaccine Independent Safety Monitoring Board has reviewed the teenager’s death but believed it was NOT linked to the
vaccine.”

I have looked on Medsafe and I can’t find the report?!?. But the media reporting tells two different stories – the review is complete but the investigation is n0t complete? And they are still awaiting the haematology reports. What’s the difference between a review and an investigation.
And then RNZ definitively rule out the vaccine as a factor? when they review board haven’t received their haematology reports back yet. Shouldn’t the public be able to read the review report.

The herald is saying it might be linked to another drug but RNZ’s headline is it is NOT the vaccine. On what do they base this medical claim. Where is the medsafe report so we can check their source. Not on the medsafe website.

If a teen takes a vax and then dies after a clot how can they rule out the vax. What is their criteria.?

2 What is their process for decision making. If for example a healthy teen is taking a drug which can cause clots , for example the contraceptive pill, and then takes the mrna vax which also causes clots , how can they tell which drug caused theclots. How can they rule out one of those drugs ? How do they say it is one or the other or not both of the drugs together which causes the risk .

3. Why has this girls death had such a quick decision but other deaths under investigation since July have still not been decided.

This conflicted media reporting and lack of transparency is cause for concern as many parents are sick with worry about this important decision.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452674/medsafe-believes-pfizer-vaccine-not-factor-in-death-of-teen

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-death-of-teen-after-vaccination-could-be-linked-to-other-medication/34RM3BNJNVFSNRLQXHGYHJXLIA/
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October 1, 2021 9:57am
- Inandout
  
  SK, these stories don’t help the 90% jab crusade one iota. Ban them or make them look CT.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:01am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  This is the only case where the state controlled media are forced to offer their conspiracy theories about “other medications” because this story was doing the round on social media so the narrative that their clot shots are safe is not harmed.
  
  This is diabolical at best and Malicious intent at worse by a media fully funded by government and big pharma.
  
  Truly the enemy of the people.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonder if that was the girl from Ponsonby? Sounds like a desperate coverup in the making here
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Worry not… Our PM, Dr Ardern, told us that poor lass’s death has NOTHING to do with the Covid Jab
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-teenagers-death-not-related-to-pfizer-jab-prime-minister-says/7CFYHIGX2YYE3ACK3R32HTN424/
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:10pm
- Fletch
  
  She had clots in her legs. Tell me this is not because of the vaccine…
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:28pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I feel for her family and friends. Having any teenager die under any circumstances is utterly tragic. Yes, there should be a proper investigation… but for now I’d give them some space.
  
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  October 1, 2021 5:49pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    I feel for her family also. No disrespect intended towards them at all. The post was aimed at the mixed and incomplete messages in the media on this very heartbreaking but important information. The family does need privacy but at the same time the public are being told to make the decision on vaccines now for their own families so it’s important that the media present the findings accurately. And their are medsafe investigations for deaths in the system since July and no clarity about when those might be completed.
    
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    October 1, 2021 7:59pm
krazykiwi

Here’s some Kindness™, UK-style via The Telegraph

New figures from the Office for National Statistics confirm a trend that has alarmed clinicians in recent weeks. The number of excess deaths is far higher than would be expected at this time of the year and the coronavirus is not responsible.

More than 70,000 additional deaths above the five-year average have been recorded in private homes in England and Wales since the start of the pandemic in March last year. Of this number, just 8,423 – or 12 per cent – involved Covid-19. While some people continue to fixate on the rising number of daily Covid cases it is evident that another health crisis is unfolding connected to the lockdowns and the difficulties of accessing care.

Among the fatal illnesses identified by Public Health England as above normal levels are ischemic heart disease, cardiac failure, strokes, aneurysms and circulatory failure. Acute and chronic respiratory infection deaths have also risen, along with those caused by cirrhosis and diabetes. Many of these conditions are also on a list showing the biggest falls in diagnosis as a result of a dramatic collapse in GP consultations in 2020. This is also expected to feed into a sharp spike in late and untreatable cancer presentations.

I’ve previously commented on this emerging picture. The hyper-neurotic fixation with ‘managing’ one new illness while having zero regard of the consequential unintended consequences will, I predict, be one of the most written about topic as researchers and historians look back at how our leaders responded to this pandemic.
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October 1, 2021 10:04am
- DeepBlue
  
  Also are the mild inconvenient illnesses that don’t kill you, but if left untreated become chronic and more difficult/expensive to treat e.g. remember the Diabetes tsunami that used to be top billing in medical concerns… how many Maori and Pacifica have avoided diagnosis over the last 2 years?
  
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  October 1, 2021 10:18am
- cmm
  
  It is shocking that we believe we’re doing this for granny. We clearly are not.
  
  The fact that people have been locked away instead of being out and about on their jaunts getting a bit of exercise, sunshine and mental wellbeing has also hugely impacted on their health.
  
  Take away interactions with family members and adding worries about their offspring losing jobs etc has caused problems too.
  
  We’re doing all this stuff for granny. Has anyone bothered to ask granny what she wants?
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:07am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    The granny in this family would like to go on an overseas holiday thank you very much
    
    The great granny (93yo) says “f*ck this shit I’ll go to the supermarket, bowls, bridge, family… when I effin’ like”
    
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    October 1, 2021 12:40pm
Maggie Pie

Just a quick ‘UPDATE’ on Sir Ron……

He’s due to be sentenced on Thursday the 14th. The Judge has told him he must appear in court in person, rather than by video-link which he has been allowed to up until now.

The Crown has called for a prison sentence of up to 10 years’.

Ronnie’s lawyers are seeking a non-custodial sentence due to his poor heath…..a dodgy ticker and early-onset dementia.

Other matters his Defense Lawyers put before the court, were that of the 49,795 images Ronnie had in his possession, all but one were classed as ‘category 2’…. that is, depicting children in sexualized poses, but wearing underwear.
(None of the images depicted cruelty, torture, or children engaged in sex acts.)

Reading between the lines, the Judge appears she might be softening her stance. My partner said he’d put money on a sentence of some form of HomeD and Community Work.

We shall see. The suspense is killing my partner’s mum 😀
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October 1, 2021 10:10am
JibberJabber

Anybody still wondering why this govt is so utterly incompetent in everything they touch?
Well wonder no more, imagine a Minister so utterly useless even the most corrupt and biased Speaker in the history of NZ Parliament has to school him.
https://twitter.com/CraigSDouglas1/status/1443642794078183424

This the level of ineptitude, incompetence and naivety of Arderns ministers.
After 4 years the lazy shmucks still have no idea of the Parliamentary process, nor the importance of getting things right and have to be lead through the process by the speaker. God, we are in deep shit
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October 1, 2021 10:42am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Jibber-
  Stop referring to it as “the government”.
  It is the Labour Party.
  That should clear up any confusion @ “still wondering.”
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:46pm
cmm

When is a case a case?

In the past, cases have always meant people presenting with symptoms.

Now we’re seeing that many CV19 “cases” are caught during PCR screening when people present at hospital for other issues. Most of those do not have any symptoms and now show up on the stats as “CV19 case in hospital”.

This is a huge problem for comparison purposed because we don’t do it for anything else.

If we did PCR-level for prostate cancer, then 90% of men over 70 and 80% or so over 60 would be “prostate cancer cases”.

If we did this for flu, then about 250 people in hospital would have flu.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-new-covid-cases-arriving-at-hospital-unexpectedly/EMVMMYIHSE7HUINTAUPIPP6S3A/
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October 1, 2021 10:54am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Indeed. I posted this a while ago, but since you raised the point today, it seems that the numbers of Covid “hospitalisations” are about 50% overinflated.
  
  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:41am
- Ruawai
  
  Govt needs to tell us how many cases have been caught in supermarkets and shops versus caught from family or between families mixing. Also need to know BMI for each hospitalised Covid positive patient patients and age.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:43am
- Fletch
  
  Yup, is what I thought as well. You test anyone with these oversensitive kits and you’re going to get a result. They are almost willing cases into existence.
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:23pm
- krazykiwi
  
  In the UK about a quarter of ‘Hospitalisations with Covid’ were picked up when a person presented with another ailment (eg broken leg). The NHS was forced to come clean on this, and to change their reporting criteria.
  
  I posit that this was a formally managed process of reducing case numbers to justify the easing up of 18 months of restrictions which people have been increasingly ignoring.
  
  At the moment it serves Ardern’s mob to have increasing case numbers to we won’t be following the UK’s lead any time soon.
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:36pm
Inandout

I have just received an email from Consumer to say because of various causes my issue will be delivered in a ‘plastic bag’ instead of the 100% recyclable paper envelope. I naturally went into immediate climate shock and felt like Posh Mum in the Catherine Tate show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUNssEtAwr8
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October 1, 2021 10:57am
103PapPap

Great letter to the editor in yesterday’s Christchurch Star:
Political Recipe.
It is timely to share this recipe with readers. This dish is concocted to ensure collaboration.
Green Junket.
Ingredients:
1 x entitled Green MP – James Shaw,
14 x Green hangers-on
350,000 air miles
Buckets of Jacinda juice sweeteners
210 MIQ nights
15 giant carbon footprints.

Method:
Oil well with Government largess. Stir in sheets of hypocrisy. Cover with waffle, hot air and carbon credits.
Best served with bowls of ridicule and large slices of cynicism.
Madge Baker
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October 1, 2021 11:00am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqowS-hlZ3M

Why won’t China Surpass the United States?

The Debate of the Century: Will China surpass the United States economically and militarily? Polls say most people are inclined to think so. Not surprisingly, over the past 40 years, China has experienced an economic boom and an improvement in its military capabilities. Even according to World Bank data, China’s inflation-adjusted GDP is already higher than that of the United States. However, things could be very different from what they seem at first glance. In this video we tell you all the details about how the great political and economic competition of the 21st century may evolve: the one that pits Xi Jinping’s China against the United States for world dominance. [15:31]
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October 1, 2021 11:01am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJitxrcow-o

Leftists Freak over AZ Audit.

Leftists are panicking as they admit that the fallout from the Arizona audit is changing the nation! In this video, we’re going to take a look at how leftists are increasingly recognizing that the audit results are inspiring new audits in states throughout the nation, we’re going to see how election integrity laws are increasingly becoming the new norm as a result of the audits, and stick with me to the very end of this video where I’ll reveal the latest polls on election integrity laws that are freaking out the left even more.
[11:28]
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October 1, 2021 11:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Love his teeshirt.
  #Trump 2024
  
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  October 1, 2021 1:33pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFtTxyW3QTs

China’s Energy Crisis: Why the Lights are Going Out – TLDR News.

Across China (especially in the north) people are beginning to struggle for electricity as power generation in the country sputters. This is especially worrying for the poorer, colder northwest who will suffer as the winter rolls in. So in this video we explain how this happened, what it means for China and why other countries could suffer the same fate. [9:20]
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October 1, 2021 11:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just tried to buy a small tube of silicone. Bunnings click and collect, not working – access denied. Mitre 10 click and collect – can’t collect until after 3pm tomorrow. Facemakers = tradies with an account only, no click and collect.
All I want is one small tube of silicone for fucks sake. Jaspinda is driving this Country into the ground with her commie control
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October 1, 2021 11:10am
- H. Upmann
  
  Same here. I need a small bracket. I know exactly what aisle and on what shelf it is on at Bunnings Grey Lynn. Access denied.
  At least I can get a box of Heineken; just walk into a supermarket with 200 other people and bingo!
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:20am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Booze store is open as well. No click and collect, order and pay at the door. 2 Jacks and 2 Crown Royal thanks. Stella is on special at Countdown
    
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    October 1, 2021 11:54am
- ecco
  
  Lots of courier parcels going missing as well. I tried to get an item delivered to my nzpost address at the local Countdown. They claimed they never recieved it even though it’s signed off digitally. I’ve logged an investigation with NZ post. Never heard back from them in 10 days. So it’s either Countdown or the courier.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:26am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  I had the same trouble buying a small tube of personal lubricant. I guess everyone else is preparing for the coming ramping-up of state intrusion.
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No vaseline – fossil fuel
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:39pm
  - cmm
    
    The way we’re being rodgered I think axle grease would be a better bet.
    
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    October 1, 2021 1:47pm
- Nickc2
  
  It’ll be different Steve when the Govt owns all means of production and private property. Under Communism, you will be allocated one small tube of silicone that you must share with all your Comrades in the Govt owned Tenement Block in which you will have to live.
  That’s Cindy’s, Robbo’s and the rest of their Comrades’ version of their NZ utopia.
  
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  October 1, 2021 1:06pm
ecco

With Ardern’s ring fencing of Auckland over the school holidays that’s going to really hit towns like Taupo and Queenstown, where Aklers like to go to for their holidays. There’s not going to be much of a tourist industry left in NZ when Ardern’s finished with it.

It’s just ridiculous banning saliva and rapid testing. Just wondering how much all those up the nose covid tests are costing NZ when we could have a much simpler and more efficient option that many countries are already using. Apparently in the UK you can just go and get those saliva test kits, free from stands in the supermarkets etc. Utterly and totally unneccessary what’s happening to NZ Inc.
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October 1, 2021 11:29am
- Bridgenag
  
  Has anyone found out who has the contract for the nose testing. There has to be a reason why it is still continuing…
  
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  October 7, 2021 8:40am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

Cop killers ‘getaway-driver’ sentenced to 12 MONTHS jail.
Less remission and time served…. home for the Xmas hangi.
That’ll show ‘er!

Who appoints these out-of-touch dudges?
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October 1, 2021 11:43am
- kowtow
  
  Same at the other end of the country.
  
  ‘Patricia Elizabeth Samson (53), yesterday in the High Court at Invercargill, was sentenced to nine months’ home detention after being found guilty of attempting to defeat the course of justice for her part in trying to cover up her son’s involvement in the murder of Ms Wilson.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/home-detention-actions-after-murder
  
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  October 1, 2021 11:51am
- Nickc2
  
  Just heard on ZB that she was known to laugh and joke with Court Wardens. Heaps of remorse eh!
  When I heard the sentence, I immediately thought the separate Maori Justice System must have kicked in. However, evidently not. Perhaps this just a pilot for the scheme?
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:48pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Imagine how Matthew Hunt’s mum must be feeling!
    
    Not to mention those front-line cops who literally put their lives on the line every day in this Free Range Asylum. Must fill them with confidence knowing they’ve got the backing of the judiciary….
    
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    October 1, 2021 2:23pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree Maggie. It must be traumatic for the parents of the slain Policeman. RIP Constable.
      
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      October 1, 2021 2:45pm
kowtow

Wall to wall 007 Bond stuff in the Media .

I wonder how much of the hype is actually paid for product placement , masquerading as “entertainment” news.
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October 1, 2021 12:08pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  All “news” is paid for product placement.
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:33pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Nope…
  
  Genuinely massive and popular franchise
  Daniel Craig’s swansong
  Kate looking more glamourous than MeMeMegan
  Very few major movies released
  Speculation (as always happens) about the next Bond – this time with added MeToo and BLM component
  
  No need to buy advertising
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:35pm
Inandout

Jacinda’s bestie and late night showy Colbert has a cringe inducing video which is doing the rounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3-guQGRWGw

As an aside, Gutfeld’s late night show is No1 in the US. He is funny and has genuine guests.
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October 1, 2021 12:13pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  It’s like a scene from film depicting a totalitarian nightmare. Obviously the “vaccine hesitancy” is larger than is being presented if they have to put this out there.
  
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  October 1, 2021 12:35pm
Jack5

Jacindarella’s shutdown of further gas and oil exploration looks increasingly mad.

In a report today on booming international gas prices, the Wall Street Journal says today that gas is:

“… the heart of the energy transition, as a cleaner-burning substitute for coal and oil, a fuel for backup electricity plants to bridge the gaps from intermittent renewables and possibly even a low-carbon fuel if its combustion is paired with carbon capture and storage.

International gas prices, which have more than doubled this year, took an 8 per cent breather yesterday (today, NZ time), after rising 26 per cent in September.
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October 1, 2021 12:45pm
- krazykiwi
  
  That banning cost our kids and grandkids $20 billion, all so that Ardern could flourish her newly-strengthened Green credentials at an EU podium two days later. This was treasonous behaviour without equal in New Zealand’s short history.
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:29pm
  - kevn
    
    @kk… The government is the problem.
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:25pm
Fletch

Youtube are now censoring and removing videos that go against the vaccine narrative. They have removed 130,000 videos that they reckon violate their COVID-19 vaccine policies.

https://abc7ny.com/youtube-anti-vaccine-covid-19-misinformation/11060829/

This only says to me that something is very wrong.
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October 1, 2021 12:50pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  The data is starting to come in, vax related symptoms are increasing, for something that is “safe and effective” it sure needs alot censorship to support it.
  
  All this does is confirm the sinister intent.
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:43pm
cmm

How can anyone take stuff seriously:

“The Delta outbreak has disproportionately affected Māori and Pasifika, who make up 17 and 65.9 per cent of cases respectively”

Maori are 16.5% of the NZ population – so 17% is hardly disproportionate.

If you look at just NI (the limits of Delta in NZ) then Maori are 18.5%. They’re underrepresented!

But, no, gotta spin this as being unfair to Maori.
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October 1, 2021 1:11pm
- greybeard
  
  Please define “maori”.
  ( and “pasifika” for that matter ).
  When someone tests positive for CV-19, are they asked if they are a maori or pasifika ? Or is that description held on the NHI records?
  What about those who have no NHI records, you know , the ones who shouldn’t be here at all, and their children and grandchildren ?
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:46pm
  - cmm
    
    Considering most Maori predominantly or European genetics, it’s all really just identity politics.
    
    I believe they are asked at admission time if the NHI ID is not used.
    
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    October 1, 2021 2:58pm
cmm

So a report finds that general arming of cops could have resulted in 43 deaths over 11 years – ie 4 deaths a year.

Of course “could have” is bollocks it could be zero a year or 20 a year, but anyway… so what?

“More than 90 people could have been shot, 43 of whom would have been killed, if police officers had been armed during serious incidents over the past 11 years, a new report has estimated.”

So police would have been justified in making 90 more shootings over the last 11 years (approx 8 a year) than they did, but did not due to lack of firearms.

In other words, cops really should have shot those 90 more people to do their job properly but didn’t because they did not have the equipment they needed.

I really don’t care if 90 criminal scum get shot – or even 900 for that matter. Far better a crim gets shot than a cop or an innocent member of society. In fact, I’d rather that 100 crims get shot than 1 cop!

We really should not rate criminal lives highly. It is the crims that are choosing to be in this position by choosing such risky lives that puts them into violent confrontation with decent society. It’s really easy crims: Don’t want jail or being shot? Then don’t be a violent criminal!

Only a very sick society puts the lives of criminals ahead of the lives of decent citizens and the cops etc that are there to deal with issues.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126523875/arming-police-could-have-resulted-in-43-more-deaths-over-11-years-report-says
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October 1, 2021 1:44pm
- rockape
  
  How I remember those days when all you needed to do was shout Stop Police or I fire then shoot. If they were too dumb to obey then too bad.
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:08pm
Maggie Pie

From the ‘COULD IT HAPPEN HERE’ file…..

RT reporting:
More than 130 Dudges in the US failed to recuse themselves from cases in which they had a ‘financial conflict of interest’.
They were accused of ‘tipping the scales’ for personal gain, when they should have recused themselves from even the most minor of cases where they owned shares in the companies.

>>Well squirt cream on my butt and call me a donut.
Who would have thort such a thing?
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October 1, 2021 1:57pm
- Ehlana
  
  Something to do with the cost of the campaign to get elected as a judge in the first place, perhaps?
  
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  October 1, 2021 3:25pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300420663/ashley-bloomfield-level-one-freedoms-a-thing-of-the-past

What bothers me
They are not even considering L1 “freedoms”.
Let alone having a plan to get to a life of REAL freedoms, like we had just a few short years ago.
I, personally, am voting for anyone who will supply and implement such a plan.
As for the childish chant/ rant of Labour, of Covid Christmas…..we already have that and Labour caused it….it’s all on you…..guys.
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October 1, 2021 2:04pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  {quote} “If New Zealanders want to enjoy the freedoms of summer, they’ll also have to accept three changes in particular that Bloomfield expects will form the foundation ….scanning is now compulsory in attending many places. …mask use particularly in accessing services or public spaces ……people will be required to show their vaccination status.”
  
  Piss off, Ashley!
  I am vaccinated. Why should I consent to this theatre any longer?
  
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  October 1, 2021 3:08pm
  - MCos
    
    I also am vaccinated and everyone I talk to has had one or two jabs.
    However.
    A sizable chunk of the population isn’t vaccinated and a good many of those have no intention of being vaccinated.
    There are people on this forum who claim everyone will contract covid-19 in the medium term. Personally I think that’s a wild exaggeration, but if the current delta outbreak is anything to go by 10% of those who do catch the it will have a spell in hospital and it won’t be the vaccinated.
    A bit of figuring will quickly show that potentially the unvaccinated are going to be a problem for others who need hospitalization.
    
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    October 1, 2021 3:57pm
cmm

C’mon – how about a tiny bit of honesty.

Euro restaurant was not closed by teenie tiny things that you can’t even see.

It was closed by government heavy-handedness.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-aucklands-euro-restaurant-to-remain-closed/DYGL5NCX4IRY63J6ZM7W2TEZKA/
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October 1, 2021 2:41pm
- gorse
  
  Cmm, it will be one of many, I fear.
  
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  October 1, 2021 2:52pm
cmm

While I am incredibly happy they are all well, this guy really needs a few slaps.

He goes bush with kids for two and a half weeks without telling anyone, parking a vehicle in a way that makes it look like they were lost to the sea, causing anguish for family and triggering the waste of thousands of hours of police time.

What a prick!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/missing-family-police-try-to-unravel-marokopa-mystery-family-thankful/FGZYKWO6KWPJ4QPBHOQ6WXRRIY/
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October 1, 2021 2:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  More to this. Where is the Mother of the kids? Why was the vehicle left on the beach for the incoming tide? How were the bikes transported? (assuming they are motorised bikes?
  
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  October 1, 2021 3:08pm
- artemisia
  
  There was a remark by the man that he needed to clear his head. That well indicate stress and a couple of ill thought out decisions. Or maybe he was giving his children an amazing experience building knowledge and resilience and thought it was up to him to set up. Outward Bound for the young. They all seem happy enough, anyway.
  
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  October 1, 2021 3:36pm
  - cmm
    
    I have absolutely no problem with him going bush to clear his head. Nor do I have a problem with him taking his kids out for some fun. I don’t even mind if he broke a hundred of Cindy’s petty rules to do this.
    
    What I do mind is that he wasted a lot of search and rescue time – putting people in danger and staging (or at least partially staging) being lost to the ocean.
    
    Yes, I’m sure there’s a lot more going on than what’s reported.
    
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    October 1, 2021 5:06pm
    - tf78
      
      cmm, he may have been teaching his kids how to deal with a future life under Jacinda’s regime. We could all do with some lessons from him.
      
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      October 1, 2021 6:51pm
  - MCos
    
    Isn’t it normal practice to let someone know your intentions when you head off into the bush?
    Beyond that it’s none of my business.
    
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    October 1, 2021 5:34pm
Bobba Fret

Good old West Auckland doing its bit to not help us get out of level 3!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-complete-carnage-reports-of-huge-gathering-in-west-auckland/OURNRWTZY7WN7SUDM4GXECS4PE/
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October 1, 2021 3:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A few will need hospital treatment. Knuckles dragging on the ground outside the car windows
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:07pm
- Inandout
  
  BF, the virus is now everywhere in Auckland and we know neither Cosgrove nor Jacinda will touch the gangs, despite their sheer arrogance. They are a (well funded) law unto themselves.
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:17pm
Warren

It looks like the Gangs in West Auckland don’t give a fuck at what the Government or Police have to say . A large group of people have gathered against the Covid rule.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-complete-carnage-reports-of-huge-gathering-in-west-auckland/OURNRWTZY7WN7SUDM4GXECS4PE/
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October 1, 2021 3:28pm
- ecco
  
  Be interested to hear what Ardern and Coster are doing about this. Everyone else – who doesn’t have Covid- is obeying the rules.
  
  Now is the time for her to stand up and show a bit of real leadership. She’s been quick to lock down law abiding Auckland citizens and turn a blind eye to these offenders. Meanwhile many small businesses are going under whilst she keeps Auckland locked down.
  
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  October 1, 2021 3:47pm
  - ecco
    
    I’m predicting she’ll throw one of her henchmen out there to front the public over the weekend. Will be Hipkins, so she doesn’t blot her copybook.
    
    (No doubt will at some later stage throw him under the bus, probably with Bloomfield when it all turns to custard).
    
    Ardern and Coster can hardly do anything but treat the Tamaki protest this weekend the same way. If there are no arrests of the gangs at this tangi, then really Ardern’s the height of hyprocrisy or maybe she’s just exercising the separate laws for separate races agenda she has planned.
    
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    October 1, 2021 3:59pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See above, W
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:07pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  You’ve got it backwards, the police don’t give a fuck, if they did they’d do their jobs and arrest them.
  
  The reason they don’t do their job is because they’ll be called racist, and the media will make sure everyone knows it as they’ve been doin for weeks.
  
  The rules don’t apply to certain classes of people, should know that by now.
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    $55M times two
    
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    October 1, 2021 4:31pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Can we now please get some adults in charge in NZ now ?! The kids have screwed up enough now with their “be kind” mantra. Enough ready.
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The kids have been stamping feet and demanding the tantrums for the last 4 decades. They NEVER grew up. Their bodies did, but the head is stuck in the 1980s
    
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    October 1, 2021 4:35pm
- Nickc2
  
  Clearly a breakdown in Civil Order.
  Are the Police asleep at the wheel, or are they waiting for the Black Power hierarchy to come to the negotiating table?
  Whatever their excuse, it’s not good enough. Where’s the Police Minister FFS. Oh, that’s right, it’s Friday afternoon, and isn’t that long lunch and drinks time?
  Remind me again what it costs to have Akld and the economy in lockdown again.
  Another two weeks in Level 3 (Modified) Akld???
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:25pm
Ehlana

I know the mask debate has been done to death, but I found this piece interesting: https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-education-and-research-center-for-occupational-safety-and-health/can-a-mask-protect-me-putting-homemade-masks-in-the-hierarchy-of-controls
The authors are from an environmental health and engineering background, so they place mask wearing in the context of “the hierarchy of controls – a framework used in occupational health to protect workers with the most effective controls.” That hierarchy places isolation (of those who are sick or have potentially been exposed to sick persons) first, followed by ventilation and physical barriers, then administrative controls such as working from home, staggering schedules and hand hygiene, then, at the bottom of the inverted pyramid as the least effective strategy PPE, such as masks, respirators and gloves.

They consider that homemade masks are most efficient at preventing the spread of viruses borne on larger droplets – but note that these droplets fall to the ground quite quickly and can be avoided by maintaining distance and sneezing or coughing into the elbow. For smaller droplets, flowing air is the best removal method, with masks unlikely to be effective at 0.3 micrometer level.
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October 1, 2021 3:41pm
cmm

Cindy’s Year Of Delivery seems to have infected IRD too.

* First they lose my IR3.
* Then they found it, but failed to tell me.
* When I asked if they had now received it, they said they’d get back to me in 15 days.
* Twenty four days later I get a response!

Of course the delays are my fault and I now owe them late penalties! Is it worth appealing those?

I’ve never had a problem before…
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October 1, 2021 3:52pm
- rockape
  
  Too bloody right, you won’t have a problem with that one!
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:04pm
- Nickc2
  
  Ah, but haven’t they increased their staff numbers? Perhaps their intended ineptitude is outlined in the He Puapua Plan somewhere.
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Infiltrate the IRD, then expose them. Mate tried that once – once
  
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  October 1, 2021 4:12pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

If govt wants to slow covid spread then they should create centres for free dispensing and use of hard drugs like meth and heroin (no take-aways). Set up sheltered seating in sportsgrounds (lots of unused parking). Would stop need for visiting tinny houses and a lot of gang movements.
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October 1, 2021 4:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

After 4.30. Have all those state sector employees gone home (most at 2pm) Is that old guy with the broom that cleans up their shit gone?
OK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOgd9hitEAE
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October 1, 2021 4:40pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh Steve, you know full well that the taxpayers’ dollars are paying many, many people 24/7. You can sleep well knowing that the right people are on duty.
  
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  October 1, 2021 7:55pm
Benedict Yu

Looks like Australia is about to open the borders to vaccinated travellers.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-set-to-reopen-international-borders-after-18-months-20211001-p58wcf.html

It is disappointing that vaccinated travellers still need to quarantine at home for 7 days but way better than the current situation 🙂

Unvaccinated Australian citizens will still need to secure and pay for a 14 day place in quarantine. No surprises there.

I hope that New Zealand follows this. If you are vaccinated you should be good to go. Or at the very least light handed checks on the way back in. That will leave MIQ hotels for unvaccinated citizens.
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October 1, 2021 5:42pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting. So if I’m reading this right, a unvaccinated, previously infected and recovered person with several times stronger immune response than has a compatible vaccinated person will still need to quarantine. How does that work in terms of rational application of the facts in respect of community risk?
  
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  October 1, 2021 5:57pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Look, I agree with your rationale. You are correct. But I am running out of life and I want to see my family. I just want to get out and return.
    
    Unvaccinated folk are not going to have free entry in and out of New Zealand in the next 5 years. I can’t change that. I want to see my family as do hundreds of thousands of others.
    
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    October 1, 2021 6:29pm
    - cmm
      
      BY: I get your reasoning: pick your battles.
      
      No matter whether it makes sense or not, this is a fight you’re never going to win on principle and rationality. If you want to travel then you’ll need to suck it up and be extorted.
      
      I don’t care for travel. I have not been overseas since 2008 and I have no need. I can deal with all my overseas customers from my desk. Last time I was in North Island was 2008 a too. Again, I have no need to travel there.
      
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      October 1, 2021 6:46pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I, for one, sincerely hope you get to see your relatives Benedict. It’s awful being seperated, something I understand with my daughter and her husband being stuck in the UK since March last year.
      
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      October 1, 2021 7:41pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Fully understand your wish to travel. With regard to the vaccination incentives being put in place this Jamal [JAMA] article on Israel’s Green pass makes no bones about the fact that it is used as an incentive to get people vaccinated. “As opposed to traditional incentives, the green pass allows entry to certain places for individuals who have been vaccinated while penalizing those who have not.”
    
    But this oxford article questions the legal and ethical issues. It’s one thing if the vaccination pass is used for the direct purpose of protecting public health. But using restrictions on your movements as an incentive so people take a vaccine is a different ethical issue altogether.
    
    This vaccine doesn’t stop transmission , so it is hard to see from a public health point of view why vaxxed should need less quarantine or should be able to quarantine from home while unvaxxed can’t quarantine home. What would be the science? This seems solely for the purpose of punishing people who have not yet chosen to take their new mrna jab. It is authoritarian coercive and a massive breach of civil rights.
    
    I support quarantining at home for anyone who is law abiding and can be trusted to follow the rules. Their is no evidence that people who haven’t taken this vax are less likely to violate a home quarantine.
    
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777686
    
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-risk-regulation/article/promoting-vaccination-from-a-human-rights-and-equity-perspective-lessons-from-the-israeli-green-pass/00F39BF3BE618A0996ABCD450E50E50A
    
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    October 1, 2021 8:44pm
Southern Raider

The world we now live in. Two situations in Auckland today with different law enforcement outcomes

Gang funeral with over 50 car loads of patched members blocking main roads, standing around together, public nuisance etc no cops anywhere in sight

Balloons get delivered to a house for a birthday, neighbour dobs them in and two cops race down their to read the riot act on the women having the birthday
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October 1, 2021 6:10pm
Southern Raider

Looks like not just major delays in immigration approvals

Cops have a backlog of 10,000 firearms license approvals with half renewals. Some people have been waiting 10 months to get a renewal

Every day more incompetence from this Govt
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October 1, 2021 6:25pm
cmm

Something non CV19 for today…

About the only thing going for South Africa is cheap cannabis.

Here’s news of a haul near where I grew up: 450kg with a street value of about $NZ48k. Yup, 10c a gram street price. Prices have gone up like everything!

I can’t see tinny houses working on $3 an ounce though.

I don’t buy or smoke the stuff, but the last time I saw a transaction happening was in the Transkei (big dope growing area) and one of my brother’s friends handed over R10 (worth about $10 back then) to a local guy we knew well – expecting to get a handful of dope back. He came back about an hour later with a supermarket plastic bag stuffed full – saying he’s bring the rest the next day. Sure enough – the next day produced another supermarket carrier bag full.

By the smug look on his face, I think he felt he’d ripped off the stupid white guy.

https://www.news24.com/witness/news/kzn/man-nabbed-with-dagga-worth-half-a-million-rands-in-kzn-20210929
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October 1, 2021 7:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder if we will see much of our PM over the next two and half weeks…
No Parliament sitting days until October 19.

I s’pose she’ll have to do a Monday Afternoon revelation about Auckland’s fate… but what else is there for her to do?
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October 1, 2021 7:02pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Surely you already know that a summary of her diary is routinely published monthly.
  
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  October 1, 2021 7:52pm
Fletch

This vaccination stuff is just getting stupid now. Just watching Seven Sharp, with Hillary saying that if you get the jab in the weekend with photo proof, she will send a chocolate fish… ?

They really are pushing this stuff.
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October 1, 2021 7:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

One law for me and you…and another for the marginalised

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/coronavirus-man-with-covid-19-believed-to-have-gang-links-allowed-to-isolate-at-home.html

Thanks for nothing, Jacinda!
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October 1, 2021 7:32pm
- ecco
  
  Interesting that the police have ‘reminded’ the gangs what the rules are. I thought Ardern was bringing in $12,000 fines for breaking her covid lockdown rules. Is that only if you are white that you get charged that fine, otherwise you just get a reminder.
  
  BTW good to see that the Auckland business community has come out and said enough is enough with the borders being still closed in level 2 (see Ferald article). Apparently there was zero consultation with the parties involved. Absolutely unbelievable behaviour by this Labour government.
  
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  October 1, 2021 7:49pm
- Warren
  
  This shouldn’t be regular behavior from the Government, Prime Minister and Health Director, this is beyond belief and any person in their right mind would be condemning it , yet you only have one Journalist with any guts from the media Michael Morrah that’s prepared to get the truth out there.
  These out of there depth Senior Politicians and Top Health administrators would screaming from Parliament Building if it was the National Party that made these arrangements a d they would sreaming blue murder if they happened to be living nextdoor to these people breaking the rules .
  
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  October 1, 2021 8:28pm
Nickc2

No mention of Black Power Gang’s law-breaking assembly and conduct in West Akld today by TV1 or TV3 tonight. Govt bribery perhaps?
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October 1, 2021 8:03pm
chukar

Elsewhere on this blog was comment from Richard Prebble re Muldoonism spending of the present government.

In the interest of fairness the quality of the spending is the relevant criteria.

Muldoon left NZ with increased,infrastructure and productivity some of which is still relied on today.

The spending of this present Government is focused on consumption with little regard to the future.

Prebbles comparison can only be labelled odious!

And certainly not what Muldoon achieved.
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October 1, 2021 9:41pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Muldoon famously said that his ambition was to leave New Zealand “no worse than he had found it”.
  Despite his claims to economic management, bolstered as a relatively successful first tenure as minister of finance for Holyoake and Kirk, in reality he was no less of a failure the second time round that his Labour predecessor, Tizard, in meeting the economic shocks of the 1970s. In addition, by retaining the finance portfolio as well as being prime minister, he stymied any chance of an inner group of competent and powerful ministers emerging. In three successive elections, the National Party attracted fewer votes than Labour, Muldoon only hanging on in 1978 and 1981 by the vagaries of the FPP electoral system.
  
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  October 2, 2021 5:51am
  - chukar
    
    MMM
    Just to compare one set of achievements.
    Hydro power growth , vs. shutting down the oil industry!
    Robertson has achieved nothing.,in fact he will be remembered only for negative outcomes!
    
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    October 2, 2021 9:54am

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