General Debate 14 December 2021

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Benedict Yu

Interesting emerging evidence on Omicron.

https://scitechdaily.com/covid-omicron-variant-may-have-significant-capability-to-evade-vaccine-protection-even-from-third-dose/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/02/world/africa/virus-omicron-variant-reinfection.html

What do we know so far?

Previous infection from the Delta variant offers no protection against infection with Omicron.

Neither does two doses of the vaccine.

Omicron seems to cause milder symptoms than Delta. But many of the people infected by Omicron in South Africa had already been infected with Delta. Does that pre infection from Delta provide the protection against serous illness from Omicron? Or is there some other factor at play?

It seems clear that if your vaccine is more than three months old it is next to useless against Omicron.

What does all this mean for New Zealand?

A headache. This is why:

The whole premise of the vaccine passes will go out the window. The vaccinated will be getting infected at a rapid speed. Goodbye rationale for traffic lights and vaccine passes.

There will need to be an urgent programme of booster shots if Omicron is to be slowed in New Zealand.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will resist a third shot. Omicron will turn everything on its head. Can Jacinda persuade people to keep listening to her with a totally new plan? I really doubt it. If she comes out in February with a “new” Omicron plan centred on an emergency booster campaign, watch half of New Zealand stop listening to her.

The government will also not want to be passive about reports that Omicron causes milder symptoms than Delta. For two reasons.

Firstly I can’t find any good data yet that shows the relative severity of omicron disease in:

People who have recovered from Delta.

People vaccinated less than 6 months ago

People vaccinated more than 6 months ago

The unvaccinated

People with comorbidities.

Secondly, even if it does cause mild symptoms on average, with it racing through the population, some people will still get seriously ill. That will need modelling and planning.

Looks like there will be a bunch of folk in Wellington over Christmas trying to come up with Plan C. I just hope Plan C is not an attempt to lock us all down and to “eliminate” Omicron.

Or maybe they are not worried and they are all going on holiday. ?
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December 14, 2021 8:00am
- Cinematic
  
  BY we all need to stop sipping the covid Kool aid and move on. Labour doesn’t want you to. The msm doesn’t want you to. Covid is the only thing keeping them relevant. We’re keeping them relevant.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:11am
  - Julie
    
    Why are TV 1 still using a huge Delta Outbreak sign as there heading to the 6 pm news each night?
    Can’t move on at Labours request?
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:29am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      What’s TV1?
      
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      December 14, 2021 8:45am
      - Ehlana
        
        Television was a news and entertainment medium, Captain. It came after radio, but before mobile phones and the internet. At one time, television news was an authoritative source of information. Some older people you know may remember those days.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:00am
      - Nickc2
        
        It’s a feeder channel to the Maori TV Channel.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:16am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        It’s Labour’s propaganda outlet and general woke-agenda pushers for small segment of NZ’s population that are ‘low-information’; both woefully uninformed, and sadly also misinformed due to their reliance on these hyper-partisan sources.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:24am
      - barnacle bill
        
        Toilet Ventilation Captain,
        
        And 1 is for the first of many toilets you have.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:58am
      - Paulus
        
        TV1 News now appears to be destined for Maori speakers only.
        TV3 slightly better.
        
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        December 14, 2021 10:31am
      - raven
        
        Haven’t watched the tv news for over a year, and don’t miss it. Once you realise how one sided they are, and how much they’re not telling about nz and worldwide events, the whole show is a mockery.
        
        Also saves me from having to hear Jacinda.
        
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        December 14, 2021 6:21pm
    - curry4me
      
      Julie: They don’t want to endanger their next instalment of Cindybucks.
      
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      December 14, 2021 10:10am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Mybucks more the like . . .
        
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        December 14, 2021 1:55pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Ben,
  
  You and I both know (as do most with an IQ over 100 and an ability to detect bullshit) she will lock New Zimbabwe down from overseas ‘guests’ until there is a control strategy in place.
  
  Then the feckless will run a scareporn crusade regarding the ‘son of Megatron’ strain that looks as harmless as a mild flu to the majority of the population.
  
  Rinse, repeat.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:18am
  - oldfella
    
    Frank, as long as any lockdown doesn’t disrupt the ‘Wedding of the Year’.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:40am
- mandk
  
  I’m pretty sure half of New Zealand has already stopped listening to her.
  
  She demonstrated recently that what she says can’t be relied upon when, having previously said that the government always acts on medical advice, she ignored the medical advice, both on where some parts of the country should enter the traffic light system, and on the Auckland boundary.
  
  Then there was her ridiculously pious and hypocritical lamentation last week about the erosion of democracy in the world.
  
  Ardern, like Robinson and Hipkins, speaks a lot of words that have no meaning or value nowadays.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:19am
  - crikey
    
    “ Then there was her ridiculously pious and hypocritical lamentation last week about the erosion of democracy in the world.”
    
    The erosion of democracy in NZ is solely down to Ardern. Crocodile tears from her as she laments. What a total hypocrite she is.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:35am
    - Tricati
      
      I found it highly ironic that in the spiel she gave to Biden’s Democracy Summit, she said her government had introduced a ‘Media Fund’ to ensure facts around covid etc where being expressed as a sign of enhancing democracy.
      The hypocrisy of that statement is unbelievable, given the reality she funded pure political propaganda to suit her agenda – Her behavior is the epitome of dishonesty.
      
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      December 14, 2021 10:04am
      - Nickc2
        
        …..and nobody’s holding her responsible for espousing such bullshit!
        Obviously, there were no fact-checkers operating at Biden’s Democracy Summit.
        
        Biden’s Democracy Summit? I’m pretty sure there’s not too many Americans giving that any credence.
        
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        December 14, 2021 12:08pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We need an Impeachment Court to deal with these rogues. Denmark has one:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10305175/Denmarks-former-immigration-minister-JAILED-ordering-separation-asylum-seeking-couples.html
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:47am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Imagine how abused that would be in New Zimbabwe
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:16am
  - Paulus
    
    See Ardern was labeled in overseas media as “Lenin with Hair”.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is good
      
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      December 14, 2021 1:44pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Ardern is a real example of how democracy is being eroded in Western countries. No surprise as she was the International President of a Socialist organisation.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:47am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    And she also demonstrated her “knowledge” (or lack of it) of the housing market when she spoke about house prices possibly reducing.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:55am
  - Jim
    
    No sadly heavy consumers of government propaganda via the MSM are still right behind Ardern (and their sofas). Ardern knows it’s almost impossible to break the grip of main stream media on the unassuming trustworthy masses. Those that have been, or are starting to, think a little more freely are often at loggerheads within different generations across families, friends and colleagues. This is an old power play strategy (break cohesive societal bonds) to maintain a flawed narrative and power.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:57am
  - GJM
    
    Unfortunately, most of the low information voters don’t realise or care that she is not following the science, because the MSM don’t report it or push it. It is yesterday’s chip wrappers and not news as fast as possible. The purchase of the media and journalists by the government is one of the most concerning things that this government has done/ All communists censor the media and you can see why, as otherwise the publicity of the 3 waters confiscation, the cost and incompetence of the lockdowns, the $1b given to maori to (not) get vaccinated, etc should be daily news.
    
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    December 14, 2021 12:24pm
    - Bloody Dago
      
      All communists then confiscate all the firearms
      
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      December 14, 2021 5:37pm
- Rodney Hide
  
  Very good summation. But I balked at modelling!
  
  Rodney
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    For very good reason. Have you tried it?
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:48am
    - Rodney Hide
      
      We all could do with a laugh in these dark times and that was a good one. Thank you.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:29am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    Modelling?? Follow the money.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:03am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Modelling in itself isn’t bad Rodney. It’s just that ethically the modelers and active politicians shouldn’t use the outlier scenario result that supports the hypothesis they wish to communicate rather than the more probable scenarios that negates their hypothesis.
    Oh dear – is that an oxymoronic thought?
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:31am
    - oldfella
      
      70: modelling should be kept for model planes.
      
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      December 14, 2021 10:42am
- Simon
  
  Vaxx failure first. Thats the starting point. The 2 dose vax is useless after 3 months. Then the mild omicron for the sheep to go and get a “booster”. The omicron is a cover for general vax failure. Massive public health failure.
  
  There will be another variant 6 months later as the virus evolves to work its way around mass vaccinations in the middle of a pandemic. Then you will need a fourth dose. Maybe the next variant will not be mild those with lower immune system (geared up against the alpha) due the first two doses are more at risk.
  
  The clown show gubermint will continue to organize society and the economy around this bull shit useless endless series of vaxxs. This will only stop when people stop taking the boosters.
  
  If you have had the two shots. Good for you. Very compliant. But now start asking questions. The vaxx is a failure. What is the exit strategy? The gubermint doesnt have one. Not taking the booster is the exit strategy from this bull shit.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:24am
  - All_on_Red
    
    The ‘vaxx’ is *not* a failure. It has proved to be a very effective treatment against Covid for the vast majority.
    If Omicron is as benign as it is looking to be, then there will be no need for further shots at all- unless, like you get a flu shot, you want one.
    Nature is doing what nature does, ignoring politicians.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:39am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      The vaccine, if it can even be called a vacine, is imperfect and leaky.
      
      That makes it a failure.
      
      The boosters, will be mandatory if you want a vaccine passport.
      
      A vaccine passport is not freedom, it is permission from the government to do something and can be taken away anytime they like, that is not freedom,
      
      I do feel sorry for those people who have been coerced into playing chicken with thier natural immunity.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:05am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      No it hasn’t, it’s not needed for the “vast majority”. It might be helpful for those aged, with serious underlying health issues, diabetics, obese or a combination of any of the above. Jabbing the majority does nothing more than make the efficacy stats for the jab look much better than they really are.
      It’s like putting a plaster cast on everyone in the country even though only o.2% have a broken limb. It isn’t evidence of anything.
      Here is good statistical analysis on the subject.
      
      – we’re clearly going through a round of “the vaccines don’t work so you need to take more vaccines” or even more hilarious and wrongheaded “omicron is vaccine evading, so you need boosters.”
      Except it isn’t hilarious.
      
      https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/i-see-we-have-reached-the-if-it-does
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:10am
      - All_on_Red
        
        I was referring to the majority who were vulnerable.
        I certainly agree my 13 and 16 yo and probably myself and wife didnt need it- except of course a few months ago we were told that being vaxxed reduces viral load transfer compared to unvaxxed- so thats why we did it.
        
        My main point is that Omicron is going to make it all redundant.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:16am
    - Jim
      
      Agree nature is doing its thing, and we are moving closer towards pandemic blowout. However, I’m certain big pharma will quickly try to upsell another mRNA product, and use the same financial control leverage it has over media and governments. Anyone that thinks this is crazy, revisit this post in 3 months time.
      I’m looking forward to Medsafe’s spin for the ‘ye old Alpha vac’ justification for our 5-11 year olds.
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:07am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    A Drug company thats looking after its shareholders will develop a vaccine that needs multiple doses and then as the virus mutates develop another vaccine that needs multiple doses.
    Thats how it works in the business world. You always look to maximise sales opportunities.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Don’t encourage Cinders she may fall over in her fireplace.
  
  I have watched for the past few weeks the massive ramping up of scariant reporting. It’s been contagious like a bush fire. I’m reminded how few people control world “journalism”, It very like a PR job–I cannot tell what is the truth from the mixed messages.
  The only clear message is the omicron is coming for you, dress up in your scareware, and do as you are told. How is informed consent possible?
  
  Are the big players playing the heads of small nation states?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:41am
  - sooty
    
    Are the big players playing with the heads of small nations?
    “Fixed it for you”
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Moving owned players is a later stage of playing with the heads.
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:31am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  1. They are going on holiday, deal with it when they get back.
  
  2. Not looking forward to the now annual ,short and sharp, hard and fast, annual lockdown, for 3 to 4 months, may as well shut up shop.
  
  3. If plan C, is as badly thought out a mismanaged as plan A and B, then there may as well not be a plan.
  
  4. Because we did not have the infection rates that other countries had, we will have less natural immunity, we have only delayed the inevitable, we could be hit very hard.
  
  5. At some point we are just going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  It is not freedom if you need permission from the government to do everything.
  
  Welcome to our ongoing tyranny.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:52am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Or we could just delete our passes, do as we please and tell Cindy she’s had her 15 minutes, and can fuck off now.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:12am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Outstanding plan Rich Prick. The best I’ve heard in 2 years. Bravo. Seriously, that’s the best plan yet!
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:22am
    - Thumelicus
      
      The toddlers getting rid of their pretend plastic keys? Ever tried to separate a tiny human from their new toy? The toy looks just like the real thing, they wont give it up willingly, they believe its the real thing, real keys, real freedom.
      
      You cannot expect much from a populace that channels the spirit of a half blind mole bird that spends its life with its nose in the dirt (at night). The only thing they become good for is food for the predator.
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:23pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  So you can’t find any good data on
  
  the relative severity of Omicron in
  
  People who have recovered from Delta.
  
  People vaccinated less than 6 months ago
  
  People vaccinated more than 6 months ago
  
  The unvaccinated
  
  People with comorbidities.
  
  Hardly surprising, since it was only a few weeks ago that omicron was even identified. But if that’s the case, then what’s the basis of your conclusion that
  
  Previous infection from the Delta variant offers no protection against infection with Omicron.
  
  Neither does two doses of the vaccine.
  
  […]
  
  It seems clear that if your vaccine is more than three months old it is next to useless against Omicron.
  
  Also,
  
  Can Jacinda persuade people to keep listening to her with a totally new plan? I really doubt it. If she comes out in February with a “new” Omicron plan centred on an emergency booster campaign, watch half of New Zealand stop listening to her.
  
  What, she’s supposed to stick with the old plan?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:53am
  - curry4me
    
    Albert_Ross: Watch the demonstrations ramp up too. Also watch the polls trend down.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:16am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The NYT article is paywalled. I’d be keen to see the “science” claiming that previous infection doesn’t help against omicron. This modification to the narrative was predicted months ago. As will the next “variant” and the need for the 3 monthly boosters. Of course I’m a card carrying, foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. This narrative is ridiculous and falling apart on a daily basis.
  
  So the vaccinated who are no longer vaccinated will need a booster. The booster will have a maximum life span of 6 months, this will soon be reduced to 3 months. Another conspiracy theory. Remind me of that in a year from now.
  
  There is evidence now that Original Antigenic Sin is a thing. It is happening. We need to stop jabbing people, not boosting them.
  
  Analysis here:
  
  https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/original-antigenic-sin-is-a-real
  
  And here, ignore the humourous cat photo, it’s serious data analysis:
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/is-original-antigenic-sin-starting
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:02am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Hey Benedict, it’s a tricky virus
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:04am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Tricky PM more like it
    
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    December 14, 2021 2:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Lockdown and exclusions are all that Our Dear PM has, especially if Boosters (jab 3 & 4) are as limited/leaky as Vax 1&2.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:07am
  - sooty
    
    Yes but booster, 23 and 24 will hit it on the head!
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:41am
  - alloytoo
    
    Don’t you mean as leaky as MIQ? 😛
    
    by all accounts MIQ will be useless against Omicron.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:45am
- bronny1
  
  There is no way public servants will even give this a single thought over the next two months. After all, as you say, a plan isn’t needed till feb so they will start to think about it then.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:08am
- cmm
  
  “A headache. This is why:”
  
  You mean a POLITICAL headache.
  
  The best info we have is what is happening in South Africa where the symptoms are generally very mild.
  
  * There are very low levels of oxygenation/ICU uages in hospital.
  * Most of the “CV19 patients” are in hospital for other reasons are testing positive with very mild symptoms and most that are in ICU or require oxygen are getting it for non-CV19 reasons.
  
  The biggest difference between us and South Africa are:
  * They have high levels of natural (broad-based) immunity. A positive for them,
  * A younger population. A positive for them.
  * Massive immunodeficiency due to HIV (over 50% HIV positive in some demographic groups). A huge negative for them.
  
  Get some Vit D and Zinc into yourself. That is the best you can do for yourself (for other infections too). It is a bloody crime that our government (and other governments) are not getting that message out.
  
  I see UK has recorded its first “Omicron death”. I wonder what’s the small print there. Was this a death from other causes while Omicron positive?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:09am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It was a death “with” omicron. Obviously the Black Death has arrived. About bloody time, it’s been a most disappointing plot so far.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:29am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Maybe like the poor guy at New Lynn who had Covid and was shot on his driveway……..Covid gets another kill!
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:05am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        So they must be doing a Covid test on everybody that dies.
        
        Have Covid, died from Covid.
        
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        December 14, 2021 1:20pm
    - Spoff
      
      UK Column News – 13th December 2021 has a good Boris segment and we get a mention at
      53:14 – “Strongly Opposing Vaccinations Cast As Terrorism In New Zealand”
      https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-13th-december-2021
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:29pm
  - bennerg
    
    Agree CMM.
    
    Aged 60 we started getting more colds and flu – aged 65 we got on to the daily Vit D3 & Zinc, and surprise, years later, neither of us have had a cold or flu since.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:16am
  - Jim
    
    Yep the UK seems to be preparing for Armageddon and yet Dr John Campbell is clearly somewhat sceptical based upon his clinical contacts in SA.
    Both short vids are worth a look
    https://youtu.be/dqx_0scwiRk
    https://youtu.be/XzrG3Odgf28
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:17am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Great Post BY. I’m grateful for your contribution to this and other debates on KB.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:25am
- alloytoo
  
  After watching Dr John Campbell’s videos, at very least we can conclude that Omicron when it arrives will sweep through the urban population in a matter of weeks.
  
  Hospitalization data from SA suggests that a far smaller percentage of people require O2 vs Delta variant and antidotal evidence (from clinicians) suggest it is far milder.
  
  Vitamin C & D supplements and Zinc seem like a very good idea.
  
  Very loud news reports out of the UK have heralded a death from Omicron, but there is little data about the patient (not even age) from what I’ve seen. Difficult to evaluate beyond the scaremongering.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    No the critical phrase omitted from fear-porn UK headlines (but spoken clearly by Boris) was “death with omicron”. Not the same thing as “death from omicron”. A large proportion of omicron cases in hospital in RSA are ‘incidental”, people in hospital for various issues that also happen to have omicron
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:48am
- thirteenstars
  
  Turns out that Omicron “out-competes” Alpha and Delta, which means it more readily infects and therefore “beats” the other variants to the infection finish line.
  
  If Omicron causes antibodies that prevent subsequent Alpha or Delta infection, and Omicron is far less deadly and severe (it is), then this virus doesn’t just rate as a bad case of the flu, it becomes a mild case of the flu. In effect it become a non-issue.
  
  And what of the massive infringement of civil rights and the equally massive bureaucracy that has come into being to infringe those rights; when will all that go away?
  
  That’s a question for the enablers of these abuses, which includes the likes of the National Party and all others that joined the pack, piled on, and screamed, emergency! and damn your rights!
  
  This has changed our world forever. And it was mostly a good excuse to double down on the hysteria of modern health and safety regimes, in whose name almost any authoritarian measure is justified.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:02am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Good review of current knowledge of Omicron on a rationalist website (big on Baysian approach to quantifying knowledge and making firm predictions)
  https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Rxz8i4AB7EZESoDFK/omicron-post-6
  
  It’s ridiculously transmissible. Lockdowns can’t work.
  
  I read elsewhere that mortality is, at worst only about 4% of Delta in South Africa, other estimates put IFR of omicron at around 10% of Delta (0.05%), bad flus are 0.1%. Only about 10% of hospitalised patients are needing O2 and they are on average being discharged within 3 days rather than 8 for Delta.
  
  If Delta might have cause 1-2000 deaths in NZ’s mostly vaccinated pop then Omicron is likely closer to 100 mostly old and infirm. That is about NZ’s normal Daily death toll. Outside of fear-porn focused newsrooms that is so close to zero risk as to make no real difference.
  
  Omicron is looking like great news.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:13am
- John Pakes
  
  So if nothing works and nothing can be done are you suggesting that the only hope we have is in herd immunity?
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:29am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Viruses do what they do. The vaccines aren’t working. This was predicted by many but their voices were shut down. It’s looking more and more like vaccinating during a “pandemic” is the worst thing you can do.
    
    “Original Antigenic Sin is a Real and Very Serious Reason to Stop Vaccinating Everyone”
    https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/original-antigenic-sin-is-a-real
    
    Read and debunk at will. Good luck.
    
    The definition of insanity is what the world is doing right now. Jabbing people with leaky vaccines that look as though they are impacting negatively on the innate immune system.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:50am
  - bronny1
    
    Not at all. Take vitamin d and zinc. Get healthy. And use the treatments used overseas ((clue it’s not Panadol and throat lozenges).
    
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    December 14, 2021 5:08pm
- Jim
  
  I sense it will be Pfizer to the rescue …no doubt with a new 99% (relative) effective mRNA jab that will be offered in March (FDA have long since signed off no need for trials for mRNA biotech!)……..I’m sure it will be heralded as another ‘miracle of the science’. Just line up and take it.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    So only 3 months too late then? The world is getting Omicron for Xmas.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:51am
- Fletch
  
  There will need to be an urgent programme of booster shots if Omicron is to be slowed in New Zealand.
  
  Why? We’re three strains on now, and a booster based on the Alpha variant is hardly likely to offer any protection from Omicron. But it’s the only course of action this govt can think of.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:42am
  - burt
    
    Why – because it’s the only arrow we have in our quiver. We’d dumped all other options as instructed by our Pfizer overlords.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:50am
    - Jim
      
      Yep …all we’ve got is safe and effective (needed every 12 weeks) vaccines, illegal drugs, Netflix and KFC, she’ll be right.
      
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      December 14, 2021 1:20pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    From boriqua gato: –
    
    we’re clearly going through a round of “the vaccines don’t work so you need to take more vaccines” or even more hilarious and wrongheaded “omicron is vaccine evading, so you need boosters.”
    
    People will wake up to this grotesque scam sometime – surely?
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:01pm
- burt
  
  Well if it still infects people who have had 3 shots then it’s clear the only response from our government (and opposition) will be that we need 4 shots.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:39am
  - Jim
    
    Yep with same sarcasm….
    possibly dose 3 and 4 administered about 60 minutes apart
    
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    December 14, 2021 1:23pm
  - mawm
    
    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results – Albert Einstein
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:28pm
    - Jim
      
      Same for socialism
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:14pm
- Aunty
  
  “Previous infection from the Delta variant offers no protection against infection with Omicron.
  
  Neither does two doses of the vaccine.”
  
  Better wear your mask then.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:00pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Get your fourth booster “Aunty”. Chop chop.
    
    Otherwise you might drop dead when someone coughs on you in the street.
    
    Oh, and make sure you’re informeller Mitarbeiter training is up to date. Wouldn’t want the unclean getting away, now would you.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:44pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Accidental uptick to Aunty. I thought it was sarc.. then saw it was aunty.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The vaccinated will be getting infected at a rapid speed
  
  This is global trend which, somewhat ominously, points to Original Antigen Sin being at work. It will, of course, be blamed on The Unvaccinated™
  
  Check out this India vs UK comparison. India has 37% of the population vaccinated, while the UK boasts 69%. Of course there are a number confounders – Ivermectin being one, and seasonality being another. Still, the delta on that chart is enormous.
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:56pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Maybe Ivermectin is just as effective against “Omicron” as against the other variants ? As it is not keyed to a specific version but interferes with at least 3 separate viral proteins (binds in the ACE2 receptor and the S protein to prevent infection, acts as a protease inhibitor, and binds to the viral N protein to prevent assembly, very likely (but note I have not yet seen this tested) it still works in exactly the same way.
  
  Just maybe time to reconsider the stupid and malicious ban on this treatment ? Or at the very least, organise a proper trial to establish to general satisfaction that it can and does (or even possibly does not) work. Because dangerous as our lying medical establishment wants to claim, it is not when appropriately dosed for humans.
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:00pm
Warren

I am still trying to understand Jacinda Arderns frame of mind or does she really think then unvaccinated are as stupid as she makes out. Before anyone thinks as says are you vaccinated the answer is yes near on 6months ago and is also the answer on my wife, our children and Grandchildren. I ask this question because how can you have informed laws on vaccinations and then join the gullible on Facebook which Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister has done and grovel to the unvaccinated they are still part of your team of 5 million nothing has changed.
Or is our Prime Minister right people are stupid to think for themselves and its her job to con the vulnerable.
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December 14, 2021 8:00am
- Ruahine
  
  You may not be able to fool all of the people all of the time. However it does appear that you can ‘fool’ a lot of the people all of the time.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:15am
- Random T Person
  
  Sorry mate but I have difficulty understanding what you are trying to say.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:20am
  - bronny1
    
    Me too!
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:14am
- Simon
  
  “understand Jacinda Arderns frame of mind”
  
  The personal exertion of authority.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:31am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pride makes Ardern’s beliefs invariant–a true bully personality.
  Reason would be too disturbing to her world view.
  (Luxon: there’s a weapon there.)
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:45am
  - Matt Long
    
    I think she is a mixture of an empath and OCD which makes her a very controlling person. It also means she disassociates from disagreement, ie will not acknowledge Groundswell, depersonalises unvaxed.
    I’m not sure how much power she actually holds in Government; Robertson and the Maori Caucas seem to hold most of the reins of power but she is a potentially very toxic mix.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:15am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  I have seen the change in language,
  
  The vaccinated people want to know that they are around other vaccinated people and are safe.
  
  We are protecting the, at risk, unvaccinated by segregating them from the vaccinated, for thier own safety.
  
  Does any of that make any sense?
  
  Personally I would like the freedom to choose for myself what level of risk I am prepared to take.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:14am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Actually according to the new systems in place you are no longer vaccinated. Unless of course you download your vaccine passport which means you have another 6 months protection from this deadly diseases. Perfectly logical like everything else.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:35am
Luke Piewalker

Just cancelled another summer accommodation booking and got told I wouldn’t get my refund till tomorrow as they were at their limit of cancellation refunds for the day.

Are you proud of the wreckage you are causing Jacinda?
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December 14, 2021 8:01am
- Cinematic
  
  Northland in Hone red for summer. Businesses and families up north being persecuted by this a Labour government for no legitimate health reason.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:13am
  - Prince
    
    It does appear Ardern was unwilling to take on Harewhira by coding Northland Orange.
    The potential for his roadblocks unsupported by Police under Orange was too hard to manage.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:32am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      How is that consistent with freedom under our Bill of Rights?
      
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      December 14, 2021 8:52am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        Freedom is not requireing permission from the government to go about you daily life.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:20am
      - Paulus
        
        We only have freedom if Ardern says so – so get used to it.
        
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        December 14, 2021 10:37am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      1. I think for Hone it was an own goal.
      
      2. They decide on the roadblocks and police have to support them.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:18am
    - ecco
      
      I think that’s what Hawawira wanted. For her to lock down Northland. He clearly doesn’t care about local businesses. He’s just trying to show her who’s in charge.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:24am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  As long as she could get Tairawhiti to Orange in January she didn’t give a damn about anyone else.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:15am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    As of yesterday, MOH data shows 82% of Northland Maori to be “At least partially vaccinated” and in Tairawhiti 85%, a 3% difference. The difference between the vaxxed’s gathering limits in Red and Orange settings is 100 and unlimited respectively, which calculates to an infinite percentage.
    Always known that our current Cabinet are expert at comparing similar numbers and making rational decisions./
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:14am
- Simon
  
  “Are you proud of the wreckage you are causing Jacinda?”
  
  No. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions in NZ complied with Jacinda because they wanted their pre-covid lives back. There wanted to travel, visit friends & family. The medical considerations were incidental.
  
  If you understood the people in Wellington and the power conferred by the sheep who complied “because they wanted to travel” then you would not blame Cindy.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:36am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    New Years Eve has been designated as change the lights date. Feel good or strict science?
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:54am
    - Ehlana
      
      By New Years Eve the summer exodus out of Auckland should be complete, so the date will help maximise damage to our hospitality industry, while looking “generous” by changing the lights in 2021!
      
      Keeping Northland in red will cement control for the Harawiras and ensure tourism dies, which will help increase beneficiary dependence on Labour.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:21am
- Rich Prick
  
  I can’t think of any government in the history of this country that has done so much to wreck lives and the economy. Yet some still cheer Cindy on.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:51am
Lee C

If you want to actually understand the last two years’ madness, and how the Government has been forced to operate, use up a mere seven minutes of your time to watch this:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zNZCHISDxtnE/?fbclid=IwAR1G7Wf927H8wJ5cDAfOX2TWng4eI6C3Q8hUcfxbUynELTtTidLbalmBXS8
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December 14, 2021 8:03am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  So an OIR to see the contract that the government has with pfizer would be ignored, on public interest Grounds?
  
  Are they even allowed to talk about the contract?
  
  What does the government mean when they say they have secured supplies?
  
  Are we allowed to know how much it is costing us?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:34am
- Jim
  
  Yep that’s been circulating for weeks and yet the MSM and NZ accredited press are making cricket noises. I heard a NZ talk radio host yesterday saying that Pfizer were not making any money and were distributing the vaccines at cost! You really can’t make this up anymore.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:48am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    There has to be a massive and constructive overhaul of the system for complaints re media and journalists. The last couple of years have been an eye opener showing a complete corrupted system of narrative control with no method for challenge.
    That is such dangerous ground, particularly with a power crazy government as we have now.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:40am
Maggie Pie

When faced with a choice between ‘science & logic’ or ‘pink hair’…..Jacinda goes with the dye-job.
Every time!
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December 14, 2021 8:06am
- Ruahine
  
  I think I see what you did there Maggie.
  I do admire the colour of Jacinda’s hair.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:11am
  - Scooter
    
    I think beneath it all Jacinda is going very grey, young being 40ish.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:00am
- Frank the tank
  
  Mags I wonder if the Circus Act and her sideshow mate Gav will attend the royal wedding?
  
  I think Gav had us pencilled in for about 2-3k deaths by now under his modelling
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:20am
Yabster

From Hobsons Pledge – 3 waters was mandated by Labour from as early as July- theres a surprise….

Link to RNZ article about the mandate

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/457660/three-waters-government-agreed-to-mandated-strategy-before-four-entities-announced?fbclid=IwAR1weJDJx1NtFaCmuEeOKaz_p36Ta92L8vWrJxPDElbI_72LwLMx47YLz5Q

hree Waters plan was mandated from the start
Cabinet agreed on June 14, 2021, to a mandated approach to the Three Waters reform and spent the next four months telling councils that the plan was voluntary and councils could opt out, according to Cabinet papers quietly released last month.

Radio New Zealand reported this late on Friday afternoon, after news the previous day that introduction of a Three Waters bill would be delayed until next year, See Mandated

“Discussions (during a two-month consultation period) would have been “quite different” if councils had been told about the mandated plan from the outset,” Whangarei mayor Sheryl Mai said.

According to sources in Wellington, there is a standoff between Labour’s Maori caucus (who want co-governed water) and the provincial Labour MPs and Cabinet Ministers who are feeling the political heat from widespread opposition to the Government’s proposal.
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December 14, 2021 8:07am
- Random T Person
  
  Ah yes look at us in New Zealand, ruled by decree, fooled into thinking we’re a democracy. LOL. Gotta laugh but feel like you should be crying.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:52am
slightlyrighty

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-accuse-governments-emergency-housing-approach-as-a-campaign-of-denial/XNJFTIIPBKZMJJZBM6YG6JSWD4/

Have the police and the government been telling Porkies? According to the Herald and RNZ, Yes.

When Granny Herald and RNZ start turning on you….
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December 14, 2021 8:07am
- Souvlaki
  
  It is very concerning! This article raises the fact the Police are actively COLLUDING with Labour to obscure the extent of the problem. A sinister development imo.
  Go Willis!
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:34am
  - Random T Person
    
    Say what you like about Cam Slater and the BFD (I am not a fan of him) but his recent story about the police surveilling him and his site tells you all you need to know about the politicisation of the police.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:17am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Question 10, today!
    
    NICOLA WILLIS to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement in June in relation to Police reports of violence in or around emergency housing that “this information is not aggregated by Police”; if so, at the time she made this statement, had the Police generated any Intelligence Notification reports about offences and violence in MSD emergency accommodation?
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:39am
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Bloody hell, Poto was useless in the house today. First she tried to convince herself that a police report available locally rather than nationally is somehow, magically, not an ‘Official’ police report, and when that didn’t fly, she just resorted to the old tried and tired distractions about how Nicola Willis just wanted to throw kids out in to the street, all but accusing her of racism. She is an embarrassment to the House exceeded only by Nanaia Mahuta. The most frustrating thing is that I know many astounding, competent and upright Maori women who would be a huge asset to the Labour Party, such as Louisa Wall, Kiri Allen, but no. Williams and Mahuta appear to be there for reasons other than competence!
      
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      December 14, 2021 4:40pm
- bennerg
  
  “On May 17, 2021, there was email from an MSD official to the Waikato District Prevention Manager, a Police Inspector, referring to “concerns raised by the following Police Officers, Detectives (names redacted) – Child Protection Team”. The details of those concerns were all redacted.”
  
  So much for the most open & transparent Government ever …
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:56am
Russ the Muss

So BY, potentially what the data says is that as each variant comes around anyone who has immunity from a previous strain no longer does! Which means potentially, this is going to go on for years or until it becomes extremely mild and all variants the same or milder? If this is the case, then we need a new plan..
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December 14, 2021 8:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The original opinion was the existing vaccines were sufficient. That omicron was a trivial interruption. Now it’s forget that,Ardern’s in charge.
  
  World wide the scare is being magnified without reason but driven by a bush fire of underground purposeful fear.
  Save the Planet might be next.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:01am
  - sooty
    
    Climate change is here. Panic now!
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:49am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      Fark it’s raining in Auckland … climate change!!!!! Although my garden and pool are loving it ?
      
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      December 14, 2021 2:52pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Whose “original opinion” was that? Citation please
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:31am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There’s been a wide burst from the media. The initial reports out of Sth Africa were that omicron was there and basically insignificant in its affects. Within days the other side of the world was in full propaganda anti mode.
      
      Mysteriously all the “experts” knew the composition of omicron and were able to present their views accordingly. It was as though full genetically sequenced live samples had been already been distributed internationally.
      I’m sure there is a potential paper for the right scholar on that info phenomenon.
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:45am
      - Jim
        
        It’s just amazing how efficiently the scientific and media communities function (and collaborate) when they are funded by big corporates. It’s certainly going to be a Brave New World, soma anyone?
        
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        December 14, 2021 3:05pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  It’s my understanding that these types of viruses follow a similar pattern which is that they mutate and become less deadly and more contagious. Delta followed that path although if you listened to Ardern and the MSM you’d bee forgiven for thinking it had become more contagious and more deadly. This new variant has mutated along the same lines and it will continue to do so until it’s just another strain of the sniffles. Of course buffoons like Boris and wanna be social engineers like Ardern or chairman Dan don’t want it over so they’ll try the same trick aided and abetted by the pharmaceutical industry who equally have no interest in it being over especially at the hands of Mother Nature.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:03am
- cmm
  
  What you need to understand is that most vaccines (ie. REAL vaccines) and natural immunity work on many fronts. They have 20 or more known pathways to attack the virus. There are 20 defence plays on the rugby field.
  
  The Pfizer, and similar, vaccines are one-trick-ponies. They attack the specific profile of the spike protein(s). There is only one defender on the field – one dummy and the virus is through!
  
  With Delta there were around 8 modifications to the spike protein, so the “fit” was not as good as before, so the effectiveness for Delta went down.
  
  With Omicron there are over 30 changes. The fit is pretty much non-existent.
  
  Jabbing a booster of the old Holy Water in your arm will have short term benefits – and far less.
  
  Pfizer said they can brew up a new recipe in a few months, but by then Omicron will have gone through the whole world. Good. We can stop playing these stupid games.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:20am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Maybe pfizer need to brew up the virus and the vaccine at the same time.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:39am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The issue is covered very well in this excellent article. I posted it above, but in case you missed it. Very relevant to the question you ask.
  
  we’re clearly going through a round of “the vaccines don’t work so you need to take more vaccines” or even more hilarious and wrongheaded “omicron is vaccine evading, so you need boosters.”
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/i-see-we-have-reached-the-if-it-does
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:40am
artemisia

Are rent controls the silver bullet? It’s an important question because it is a huge market impacting a third of New Zealand households and it is a key policy for the Green Party. A party that may have a highly influential role in the 2023 government.

Interview on the wireless this morning Ashok Jacob, Renters United / Mike Yardley, NewstalkZB. Initiated by a report from Massey Uni that rents are up 9.4%. Renters United are pushing hard for rent controls. Interview is quite short, in the 6.30 am slot on Week on Demand.

Mr Jacob’s main point was that rent rises have been outstripping wages since at least 2002 if not decades so, he says, it’s a ‘slow boil crisis’. This was in response to the interviewer mentioning a Hawkes Bay increase of 20%. (Strange that’s a ‘slow boil.)

And indeed the Renters United website does have a dramatic graph showing the gap between rents and wages. Link below. Certainly dramatic but highly misleading because it should show the difference between rents and household income. After all it is households that live in the rental and pay the rent.

RU is an advocacy group of course, and a good thing, but the responses were disappointingly muddled and vague. If rent controls are considered by a current or future government I hope that costs and benefits are carefully traversed. For example, current policies aim to discourage investment in existing homes so first home buyers can step in. Assumes there are all these FHBs ready and waiting with deposit and serviceability sorted. No sign yet.

http://www.rentersunited.org.nz/rentcontrolsnow/
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-demand/week-on-demand/
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December 14, 2021 8:09am
- Yabster
  
  Doesn’t work and in New York has forced rents up.
  
  Not to mention why a Government should be able to tell a citizen how much he can charge his asset out for -more Marxism- no thanks- maybe JaXinda will be able to mandate a cap on wedding venue hire?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:40am
- All_on_Red
  
  There is masses of international research demonstrating that Rent controls don’t work.
  In fact, they cause harm and work against renters.
  Heres an article on Berlins experience.
  https://fee.org/articles/berlin-s-disastrous-rent-control-law-gets-scrapped/
  
  The Green Party are ignorant little children without an original idea in their tiny minds.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:48am
  - alloytoo
    
    Price ceilings don’t work because they dry up supply.
    
    It takes longer to disinvest yourself of a property than to close a factory or move to a location without such controls.
    
    Which is why they “appear” to work at first, but ultimately supply will be effected.
    
    The best way to ensure lower prices is to ensure copious supply.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:57am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  A crisis created by government policy and interventions, at every step they were explicitly told what the result would be.
  
  The answer apparently is more of the same.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:45am
- Jim
  
  I would like readers to consider (and comment) on the merits and pitfalls of this unusual proposal (not exactly embracing a free market economy) to the NZ housing crisis:
  A government instigated ‘dwelling ownership limit’ below $1M (this would operate in the similar way that a simple bread shortage is tackled by limiting the number of loaves anyone person can take).
  In practical terms a personal ownership limit should be a relatively low number (let’s say 2 properties), and the qualifying sub $1M cap ensures greatest market availability at the bottom end of the market for home buyers (not investors) to occupy.
  Be kind!
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:25pm
  - artemisia
    
    Solutions do depend a lot on what the ‘crisis’ actually is. The crises usually include affordability and availability (supply v demand) as the big ticket items. To which I would add risk.
    
    What crisis do you think your idea would address, and generally how? One of those broad categories or something else?
    
    On affordability, there are thousands and thousands of sub $1M homes for sale at any one time. Yet the number of first home buyers with bank borrowing has changed little over several years, number grouped around the low to mid 2000s a month (Reserve Bank numbers back to 2014.)
    
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    December 14, 2021 5:07pm
    - Jim
      
      The proposal would improve supply to meet the first/second time home buyer demand, by excluding the large scale investor who typically buys up those cheaper properties for rental return and capital gain.
      Like I said with the (perhaps poor) bread shortage analogy, you would rightly be pissed if I picked up the entire tray of bread (leaving none) and then chose to offer (rent) you a slice at a time for a fee.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:25pm
  - bronny1
    
    I’m not sure what you are trying to achieve? So an investor can only own two properties, say one to live in plus a holiday home or rental. Ok. So some investors sell off some properties but these are pick up by FHB if they can afford them, or investors if the numbers stack up. If they can’t sell them easily the price will fall a little until they settle.
    
    There are still the same number of houses. So nothing is solved except the ownership is more devolved.
    
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    December 14, 2021 5:30pm
    - Jim
      
      Bronny thanks for the feedback. I think you’ve just put your finger on it…..improve supply at the lower end of the market which might have a positive effect on affordability.
      Based on the example, any couple could still own 4 properties.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:28pm
Julie

I can see Aucklands move to Orange at midnight on the 30 December working well, so up to midnight business can only allow 100, after unlimited vaccinated.
So are those wanting in at midnight just going to mill outside? Then suddenly a mass of young and no doubt preloaded trying all to enter premises at once?
Clearly well thought out by Labour!
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December 14, 2021 8:09am
- pdm
  
  `………… well thought out by Labour!’
  
  Julie – Labour will be salivating from that praise – they don’t get much these days and deservedly so.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:46am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Interesting that New Years is considered more important than Christmas. Having the move to “Orange” on Dec 24, just six days earlier, would have been a nice, human and decent gesture to Christians.
  
  Maybe Jacinda’s break from her Mormonism was more bitter than she’s implied.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:59am
  - pdm
    
    Perhaps she has found a dribble of Scots blood and was thing of Hogmanay.
    
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    December 14, 2021 7:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Julie, rather like Applephiles waiting for a new iPhone release.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:17am
yossarian

So the Prime Minister wants housing to collapse by 30%?

Also great to hear HDPA going hammer and tongs at Robertson trying to defend the indefensible.
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December 14, 2021 8:09am
- Cinematic
  
  Peeni went into full desperate bro mode during a ZB interview this morning. It has to have been one of the most inept performances I’ve ever heard from an MP.
  
  NZ is being governed by a bunch of idiots.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:36am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Sorry I missed it. He sent me back to sleep.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Listen here:
      
      https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/peeni-henare-associate-health-minister-defends-traffic-light-decision/
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:12am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        Sorry I just could not finish it.
        
        Basic stuff like and/or. Aucklanders can travel with vaccination AND negative test.
        
        Can’t rule other check points out?
        
        Who is running this shit show?
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:57am
      - Jim
        
        Thanks Maggy.
        Same flapping as Ardern did yesterday (when interviewed by Barry Soper) before she threw the Iwi babysitting Police under the Public Bus service from Auckland with the usual dismissive comment “ultimately it’s an operational issue”.
        This interview was enjoyable if you like to hear a man squirm. Note the many ministerial contradictions picked up by the interviewer, clearly the minister is under duress to keep to the very tightly controlled script, even if the answer doesn’t satisfy the question posed. Transparent it’s not.
        
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        December 14, 2021 3:54pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Thanks for the link Maggy.
        He put me to sleep again.
        
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        December 14, 2021 4:05pm
  - igm
    
    His [….] lips were really flapping in overdrive . . . he is another Ardern-driven loser.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:40am
    - Nickc2
      
      To me, he lends credence to the saying “Politicians would sell their Grannies for a vote.” Another effin oxygen thief.
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:24pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  HDPA has written a scathing opinion piece on this very matter:
  
  This is going to sound harsh and I’m sorry for that but I don’t know how to say this any other way.
  
  Based on what the prime minister said about housing in an interview at the weekend, I don’t think she knows what she’s talking about .
  
  In one of her end-of-year review interviews she was asked if she wants house prices to drop and she said yes.
  
  We think that’s the first time she’s said she actually wants to see a house price drop but it’s fine because many of us believe house prices are going to drop a little bit due to the impact of rising interest rates.
  
  ASB’s picking a four percent decline next year. No big deal really.
  
  But then she said she sees them coming back to the same level as prices were a year or two ago, that should be alarming.
  
  Because two years ago house values were 30% below what they are now.
  
  Which would mean that someone buying in Auckland right now at the average house value of $1.48m would suddenly find their house worth only $1m.
  
  For house values to come back that much would be catastrophic.
  
  Never mind what would happen once homeowners lose that much equity in their homes, whatever it is that causes house values to drop by that much would be devastating.
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/hdpa-the-pm-doesnt-seem-to-know-what-shes-talking-about/
  
  The PM’s desire to see house prices collapse by nearly a third borders on economic sabotage, but thankfully shows her lack of economic nous. I am sure the likes of Chris Luxon, Nicola Willis, David Seymour and Simon Bridges will seize on it gleefully.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:38am
  - All_on_Red
    
    There are really only a couple of reasons house values drop.
    One is over supply, and we don’t have that- lol
    The other is recession where people lose jobs and have to sell.
    Iirc every Labour Govt ends in recession.
    Hopefully we will be rid of this useless lot before that gets too bad.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:54am
    - Inandout
      
      AoR, a lot of heartache can occur in a two year wait.
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:19am
  - Tricati
    
    Not sure TS if you heard HDPA interview with Robertson on this matter. He was desperately trying to conflate two statements by Ardern to suggest she didn’t say she wanted house prices to fall. HDPA wasn’t having a bar of it and pushed Robertson hard, even reading actual transcript of Ardern’s comments back to him, but the arse just kept pushing back saying HDPA was misleading people on the facts. The man is a bully and bullshitter.
    National need to run this all over summer, that Ardern wants to crash house prices because she can’t build enough, and keep reminding people of the Kiwibuild failure.
    There is very rich pickings here for National, and I hope they don’t go into holiday mode, but ramp up pressure all summer long.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:58am
  - godruelf
    
    The telling comment comes at the end when Heather asks what is your response to the PM’s comment. The answer basically ignore it she doesn’t know what she is talking about. Can you imagine what the market response would be if John Key as the PM had made the same comment.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:02am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Jacinda’s not about the economy, you ninny…
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:09am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    While I agree that a 30% drop in house prices would be catastrophic for people who have bought homes in the last two years, the fact is that the only alternative is a substantial and steady increase in incomes as well as house prices hitting a plateau and staying there for years.
    
    As economist Michael Reddell pointed out in his Croaking Cassandra blog, back in March (also based on a Grant Robertson interview):
    
    If house price inflation slowed to 1 per cent per annum, year in year out and incomes rose by 2.6 per cent per annum, in 20 years time the nationwide price/income ratio would be 5.85.
    
    He points out what that means by comparing us to places like New York City (5.9), and that our current ratio is probably around 8.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:10am
  - herb1
    
    Imagine if a National Party leader had called for a 30-40% drop in house prices, all hell would break loose.
    Every MSM platform would be telling us the economic doom that would bring, we would have numerous interviews with the young and Maori telling us they’d lose their homes and future.
    We’d hear of a huge jump in suicides and recession.
    But Ardern says it and virtually nothing
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:32am
  - Sacha
    
    Remember when mortgage rates went to 22% and more?
    I was selling ran estate back then, and on one spectacular day lost a chain of 6 residential properties when the one at the bottom of the pile pulled out. No pay day for me!
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:43am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I sure do. When we built our first home in 1981-82, we had a Housing Corporation first mortgage at 18% (our combined income was about $5/week under their top limit), and we got a second mortgage from an insurance company at 22%, on condition that we purchased double the value of the mortgage in life insurance. We worked bloody hard to clear the second mortgage before 1987, when we had our first child, so that my then-wife could be a stay-at-home mum, and we could live on my income.
      
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      December 14, 2021 11:08am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    No sooner do I link to that old piece than CC has a new post up on the same subject:
    
    At 60 per cent below current levels – which would be readily achievable with open and competitive land markets, and a genuinely open and competitive building products sector – we’d be looking at something a lot more reasonable. Real rents would probably then be lower than ever before. But our politicians are terrified of the very idea.
    
    The new Leader of the Opposition made clear his opposition to any suggestion of a sustained fall in house prices (while noting that inevitably there would be some ups and downs). HIs new deputy – and National’s housing spokesperson – did suggest that much lower house price/income ratios might be desirable, with something like flat nominal house prices. And while the Prime Minister at the weekend was quoting as suggesting that she wanted lower house prices – quite a change of tone from her, perhaps just getting ahead of what may already be beginning to happen – she too was at pains to deny any interest in much lower house prices.
    
    Fabulous. In a sense our housing market has become rather like any welfare system or drug addiction: the more people who are hooked by it the less chance there is of changing it. The only difference is that with housing it’s the newest entrants who have the most to lose.
    
    Oh wait, that means its a Ponzi scheme – and they end sooner or later, and always badly for the last ones who join.
    
    No wonder my kids are telling me that they’re gone as soon as things open up overseas. I see Bob Jones saying the same thing, and as he points out, now BNZ economist Tony Alexander.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:36am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Maybe that is why the Reserve Bank has been stress testing the banks of late. They must be concerned abou effect of something like this actually occuring.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:53am
  - coge
    
    What Jacinda wants and what she gets are two different things. For a start it’s abundantly clear she has no control over the property market. These are mostly private transactions after all.
    
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    December 14, 2021 6:07pm
- ecco
  
  Robertson is certainly going to collapes the housing market with the credit control regulations around mortgage applications. Most real estate transactions have ground to a halt due to credit not being advanced. This will affect many aspects of the NZ economy.
  
  Send leveraged people bust, push small businesses over the edge who have leveraged their family home for their business, retirees wanting to move in to retirement villages but can’t sell their houses, send developers bust as they can’t sell off plans. And on and on. Not to mention locking out first home buyers with impossible credit conditions required by the new bank regulations. This all started happening a month ago.
  
  Unfortunately Ardern and Robertson have already shown they couldn’t give a toss about the economy. For them it’s all about reallocation, ie tax and spend and reacting to polls to shore up votes.
  
  For further reading if you have access to Business Desk site economist Cameron Bagrie has written an excellent piece on the unintended consequences of this poorly laid out big brother legislation which is effectively a credit crunch that will tank the NZ property market.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:32am
- NoFax
  
  So it goes up 30% in a year that’s good; but if it goes down 30% in a year it is a catastrophe?
  
  Not that I think the PM has the ability to deliver on that wish – but I am unsure why the hair-pulling. Investments go up, investments go down.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:06am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Investors wearing the risk of losses is necessary to prevent bubbles. Eejits that have over-extended to buy overpriced housing should lose money.
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:19pm
Maggie Pie

And if you weren’t already feeling ill….WATCH THIS.

Just how f–ing cringeworthy can you possibly get?

https://twitter.com/NzStew/status/1470152309631959041
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December 14, 2021 8:12am
- Bridgenag
  
  Need to describe Maggie for those of us not twittering
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:14am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not twittering?!
    Even 94% of Aucklanders are fully vaxxed!!
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:36am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Sorry Maggie, I’m not watching that lefty halfwit.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:17am
  - bronny1
    
    I can’t watch it without getting angry. And I’m looking after my health bc after all we are in a pandemic and I have my own personal immune system to look after ?
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:23am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Which one capt? They are both half wits in my book …. Merry Xmas to you otherwise, love your posts ??
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:47pm
- Biscuit
  
  Curious, Maggie, that you can only see ONE of John Campbell’s hands during that ‘interview’…
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Surely you’re not suggesting he was playing pocket billiards with the other hand…
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:15am
- renderer
  
  That would make you sick. Campbell is one of the slimeballs of the media.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:19am
- I remember when
  
  You’re amongst friends.
  So not amongst investigative journalists then.
  Promise not to ask any hard questions.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:22am
- mandk
  
  Hey, Campbell. You’ve got brown stuff all over your nose.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:22am
  - Zoomfatigued
    
    ..and your neck.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:18am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I had a look and quickly closed the tab. There is NO WAY I am watching that.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:23am
  - Jim
    
    Benedict, Respect man! You’re clearly someone who understands the limitations of your own gag reflex.
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:57pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Will Johny boy get the MC gig at the royal wedding or is Steve Colbert presently in MIQ?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:27am
  - pdm
    
    You overlook Richie hardcore and Karel Soubrek – they have to be fitted in somewhere plus Grunter will want a speaking part.
    
    Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:55am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      And Gav from the covie modelling department
      
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      December 14, 2021 3:50pm
- graham
  
  Of all the comments, this one gives me most pause for thought:
  
  “among friends’? Media aren’t supposed to be ‘friends’ with the Govt, that compromises their ability to hold the buggers to account.
  
  I thought John Campbell was supposed to be a fearless defender of the ordinary, the down-trodden, speaking truth to power and so on … what does this say about his impartiality and ability to hold the Government to account?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Only when there’s a National government graham!
    
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    December 14, 2021 8:39am
    - All_on_Red
      
      A National/ Act Govt Tony.
      
      When is Luxon going to start fighting back against his real enemy- the Media?
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:20am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Even Tremain is asking
        https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/12/13/a-killer-tremain-cartoon/
        
        We are all waiting for him to do it. Have that interview where he calls them out for it and completely smashes them for their partisanship and smears.
        You just know they are going to extrapolate Religious belief into anti abortion to anti women choice to Luxon is a misogynist.
        He has nothing to lose and everything to win.
        
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        December 14, 2021 9:29am
  - Rusty
    
    John Campbell has always been a fickle left winger. He gives the impression he stands up for the little guy fighting bureaucracy but if your unvaxxed or a global warming denier you are a enemy of the state.
    
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    December 14, 2021 9:38am
- Prince
  
  ‘You’re among friends…’.
  Never a truer word.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:35am
- Gravelroad
  
  Arise Sir John – knighted for services to the Labour Party via broadcast journalism.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:27am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Comments like your’s do absolutely nothing for my mental health.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The joke she is laughing at is us. “I’ve got you now you bastard peasants”
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:31pm
Bridgenag

I still can’t understand how an essential service doesn’t have to worry about vaccinations and passports. Sorry for the repeat.

“As an essential service, Farmlands does not require shareholders and customers to be vaccinated to shop with us in-store.
We appreciate that for some, this could raise concerns about visiting us. We have a range of options available, including shopping online, with contactless pick up and delivery. Contact your local store to learn more about how we can support you.”
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December 14, 2021 8:13am
- Cinematic
  
  Essential services have to be open to all because they’re essential.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:39am
- bronny1
  
  Sorry, what’s your point?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:24am
- Ehlana
  
  I guess if your customers are mainly farmers, who tend to work in the open air with a physical distance from the next closest worker (farmer) measured in hectares, the chances that anyone is bringing coronavirus to your store is minimal?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:26am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Well absolutely nothing about policies around this clown circus make any sense, why would this be any different?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:48am
- Sacha
  
  Have you been in a Farmlands store lately? Our local is quite busy – there are probably 5 staff and at any one time 5 customers. The store is more like a warehouse – high ceilinged and draughty. Any Covid would get a short shrift if it tried to lurk around there.
  The other thing is, customers don’t hang around in ag stores. They are there to get stuff so that they can go home and look after the stock and crops in the fresh air.
  Which reminds me – I must go and get another pack of step-ins so that I can extend my grazing strip –
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:53am
- Jim
  
  It’s a retail business and the gov states that “Restrictions are the same if My Vaccine Pass is required from customers or not”
  So why would you restrict the profitability of your retail business?
  It’s all here: https://www.business.govt.nz/covid-19/covid-19-protection-framework/retail/
  
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  December 14, 2021 4:09pm
cjn

David Clark has announced up to 600 tech workers will be given border exemptions. I hope that they are not friends and relations of Leela 62135691 who has attached herself to my landline in order to warn me that Spark will be cutting off my access to the internet for 3 months unless I divulge the number and types of devices I use. When these techos arrive they could get a job with Spark and and solve my problem but it is more likely they will be employed by the government to improve, extend and enhance the gadgets and codes by which totalitarianism is being fostered by means of “the revealed symbol of the age, the smart phone”. “The conflict between technology and democracy looming for decades is now upon us.” I can’t remember who wrote that but David Clark and the government have understood it.
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December 14, 2021 8:17am
- pdm
  
  cjn – could you get cyclist David to get Spark to put a couple into their internet spam area as well – a torrent seems to be getting through in the last few days.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:59am
I remember when

Cabinet have decided that the Delta outbreak is occuring in 17 day segments.
This, Jacinda tells us, allows us to make the neccessary adjustments under the new traffic lights system.
Rather fortunate that the next change comes just in time to let everyone celebrate New Year’s Eve.
Who knew traffic light systems were so scientific.
Mathematically four or five percentage into the vaccination booth doesn’t go.
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December 14, 2021 8:17am
Tony Stuart

Why is Speaker Mallard publicly injecting himself into Twitter conversations between journalists, and giving them a public telling off?

https://twitter.com/aniobrien/status/1470308961479847939/photo/1

The issue under discussion was a significant capital gain by Dr Ashley Bloomfield on his home since the pandemic began. Mallard says he was “uncomfortable about a public servant being targeted in this way”. If he is, how about he contacts the journalist involved privately, not in the full glare of social media.

Mallard has a dreadful week last week, getting angry, oddly almost exclusively at the Opposition. On Thursday he ejected two National members from the Chamber. With the first ejection, of Waikato MP Tim van der Molen, instead of saying the normal “The Member will leave the Chamber” he merely inclined his head in the direction of the Opposition benches and said “Out”.

Whilst the ROLE of Speaker should always be respected, the same does not apply to the person holding the role, who has to earn respect. It’s very hard to respect the incumbent when he executes his role in such a partisan manner.

As for Dr Bloomfield’s capital gain, two points; 1) he’s far from alone in making a significant capital gain, and 2) good luck to him!
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December 14, 2021 8:18am
- Maggie Pie
  
  “His main home made just under 1 million dollars since the start of the pandemic”
  
  Crikey! Imagine the sh*t he’d be in if he lived near us!
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:32am
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s property shaming time again amongst the feckless. The tyranny of numbers will be out in force so anyone with a large portfolio or high value house will be shamed yet it’s all relative.
  
  Tony – I’ll give you 1 guess as to whether the feckless and Grey Lynn keyboard warriors will run stories/posts on how much Luxon will lose if there is a 5% drop in property prices.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:33am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Strange that the Speaker gets a bit concerned on Bloomers behalf over his capital gains. He didn’t seem to get concerned about Tame et al doing exactly the same to Luxon a couple of weeks ago.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:36am
  - MCōs
    
    Luxon’s perfectly capable of defending himself.
    Furthermore.
    Politicians can influence policy regarding property inflation, although probably not that much & nill when in opposition. That can change.
    Bloomfield buys a house and next minute it’s value increases. Apart from recommending a new hospital be built in the neighbourhood there ain’t much he can do about it.
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:34am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The difference, apart from this happening during an Ardern presser, is that Mallard is the landlord of Parliament, which includes the Press Gallery. So comments made in a media conference in the Beehive are technically within his operating remit (although it’s a very long bow), whereas a media interview conducted in an MP’s home has nothing to do with Mallard.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:19am
- Prince
  
  It’s never OK when Politicians or media attack Civil Servants, is it Trevor ?
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/85572/supreme-court-ruling-welcomed
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Mallard would, of course, point out that he wasn’t Speaker then. However he WAS Speaker when he publicly falsely accused a public servant of being a rapist, a brain fart on his part which has cost the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars, and ruined a man’s career.
    
    Three cheers for Trevor Mallard; hyp, hyp, hypocrisy!
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:22am
- pdm
  
  Inv – despicable is the adjective I use for Mallard.
  
  He meets the definition daily.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:02am
- graham
  
  Glad to see that finally … FINALLY! … some in the media are starting to worry, just a little bit, and raise concerns about the Speaker of the House taking on members of the press gallery and expecting them to roll over and do what they’re damn well told.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:02am
- NoFax
  
  It shows that the people who are making the decisions are not affected by their decisions. I am sure Dr. Bloomfield is not alone in his capital gain but he isn’t suffering that’s for sure.
  
  If Cindy & Co. were directly affected (whatever happened to the 10% pay cut??) then I think we wouldn’t see things drift for weeks. There are some of course who are having the time of their lives – they are getting well paid, people are listening to them, and they get to be part of the cool kids club. The pink-haired one is a good example.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:12am
Yvette

The philosopher stoned for his defence of science
The Royal Society is investigating what it claims are “misguided” views regarding Māori knowledge. Graham Adams reports.

“Māori science is a collation of mythology, religion, and legends which may contain some scientific truth, but to determine what bits exactly are true, those claims must be adjudicated by modern science: our only ‘true’ way of knowing.”

1 – So ensnared is mātauranga Māori (traditional Māori knowledge) in Maori religion, myth and Te Ao Maori (the Maori world view), that it should be as valid to also teach that the world was created in six days, and that the fur on my cat, with each single hair somehow knowing it is white at the base, dark chocolate brown on the tip, and is overall part of a tabby pattern that can be seen only in bright sunlight, is the result of Intelligent Design rather than eons of freak genetic chances, that I understand if given as a ratio would be 1 : 1 but after the 1 representing the level of chance being, one source describes, as filling a book of the size of an average paperback with zeroes to fill all the pages.

2– This academic upset coincides with the purification of re-writing the New Zealand history curriculum for schools, and deplatforming all Truss books – so that they and other offending ousted publications [I would personally suggest the Climate Change Commission’s Report from earlier this year, and HRC Reflections on the Report of the RCI on Terrorist Attacks on Christchurch Masjidain], can be burned on the lawn, behind the Wellington Library and in front the Wellington City Gallery.

So now there is the proclamation, of especially this Government, that Maori are Once Were Savage Warriors of Harmony, but still may be more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated, according to disturbing statistics

Only the Master of Communication may convince the nation that these two views can be held at the same time – unless you sit on the toilet long enough first thing in the morning to be struck by the revelation that both can not be concurrently true.
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December 14, 2021 8:20am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Why can’t both views be true?
  
  Cats living the life that they’ve evolved for are generally healthy, fit creatures. If you force them into a way of life that they’re not suited to, eg only allowed to live in one room and given only vegan food to eat and coca-cola to drink, they’ll rapidly become extremely unhealthy and unfit. Where is the logical incoherence?
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:44am
  - Yvette
    
    Albert Ross – Why can’t both views be true?
    
    I would think at the point they change – from generally healthy, fit creatures to extremely unhealthy and unfit. Schrödinger’s possibly poisoned cat in its closed box, can be either alive or dead, but only until you look in the box to find it is one or the other, but in fact not both together. :o)
    As in the infamous words of Jacinda Ardern, “You will know it, when you see it”
    
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    December 14, 2021 5:03pm
Scott

Last week while everyone else was trying to deal with the new covid regulations, our intrepid parliamentarians passed a law that means people can change the sex on their birth certificate.
So Ben can become Brenda and if in a year or two he gets tired of being Brenda, he can change back to Ben again.

This was passed with unanimous support by the centre right parties of national & Act.
Does anyone else think this is absurd?
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December 14, 2021 8:28am
- nathie
  
  Glad you mentioned it, AFAIK there was little/zero tv and print media coverage … but there was some radio news coverage, consisting mainly of the Greens’ Elizabeth Kerekere “threatening” the majority population that this is to be passed and for everyone against this to essentially get stuffed (charming eh).
  
  I thought to myself, there are surely pros and cons to this law, and should I be supportive or non-supportive?
  
  I then thought of weightlifter Laurel Hubbard, or say a male boxer who then transitions to a become a “woman” boxer, and then starts smashing up “real” women boxers …. so nah, just changing one’s “gender” because one can, does not seem to be a practical and sensible idea.
  
  OTOH those that make the effort to have gender re-assignment surgery, are clearly committed, so there has to be some way to recognise this (not just people saying they have changed genders), but this law didn’t carefully consider this …. the law is like the Greens’ Elizabeth Kerekere – over the top blunt instrument when what was required was some honest conversation.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:03am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    To be fair, Hubbard is/was a weightlifter, so wasn’t “smashing up “real” women”. However Hubbard’s selection in the Olympic team did cost a female from one of the Pacific Islands the opportunity to compete at the Olympics.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:24am
    - Jack5
      
      Tony, are you saying women weightlifters aren’t “real women”?
      
      How about these?
      
      Yes, body building is mainly weight training. But if you want to be more specific look at the second link.
      
      https://www.sportingz.com/news/21-female-bodybuilders/
      
      AND
      
      https://www.muscleandfitness.com/athletes-celebrities/news/women-who-are-stronger-you/
      
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      December 14, 2021 9:07pm
- DeepBlue
  
  There is such a high demand for this option it will single handedly solve the youth mental health crisis//
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:24am
- Centrist
  
  It is absolutely mad. Rewriting history.
  
  What’s next? Change old school reports – I’d love to make myself dux and captain of 1st XV, but life isn’t supposed to be like that. And could we change our medical records, or marriage certificates so that it says we married a Hollywood starlet? Insane
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:54am
- chukar
  
  Scott
  Absolutely, I posted on this blog a day or two back about the same thing.
  Conclusion was this is bad Law.
  The amazing thing it was passed unanimously.
  Where and who are the politicians with principles?
  Hard to find !
  ,
  
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  December 14, 2021 1:01pm
- Jim
  
  I have immense sympathy for people with body dimorphism, indeed one of my best male friends changed sex fifteen years ago and now just wishes to live a dignified life; all strength to her now I say.
  However, this simplistic appeasement often has disproportionate unintended consequences such as this report.
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10300295/Bearded-6ft-reporter-let-female-changing-room-stores.html
  
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  December 14, 2021 4:19pm
Yvette

NZ not immune to division: New report warns COVID-19 pandemic and Christchurch terror attack putting country’s social cohesion under pressure
A new report warns New Zealand isn’t immune to division and says the COVID-19 pandemic and Christchurch terror attack have put the country’s social cohesion under pressure.

They do get on to vaccination …
New Zealand has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world with 89 percent of eligible people fully vaccinated.
But gaps have popped up within that data with the Māori vaccination rate trailing behind with just 74 percent of the eligible Māori population fully vaccinated.

– adding to the “mantra” or “trope” that – Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to disturbing statistics … and now least vaccinated. (Yes, second time this morning – see how often it is reinforced!)
But, if this utterance of Kelvin Davis is true, is “the Māori vaccination rate trailing behind” a result of “uneducated”, and are “overweight”, and “depressed” two factors of danger in not being vaccinated – again, if the “trope” is true.

Then there is …
Director of Koi Tū Sir Peter warns the long-term impacts of COVID-19 will amplify existing inequalities and has highlighted certain groups’ lack of trust in the Government.
“It has highlighted issues of trust in government, frustration in some quarters over the consequences of government-imposed controls, and is likely to have long term impacts on mental health and education,” he says.
Co-author Dr Royal agrees, warning social cohesion is complex and comes down to trust, which is lacking for some groups.
… “Māori trust in the Government, for example, has long been tempered by the negative effects of colonisation for which Māori hold the Government accountable.

That last sentence should perhaps be “… tempered by the negative effects of Maori activists again emphasising colonisation, for which Māori hold the Government accountable.

However, “Amplify certain inequalities ” does hint at covid measures being at fault, but the article does not mention that the Traffic Light System is entirely purposed to exposing the unvaccinated and placing enormous social pressure on them through loss of United Nations Declaration guaranteed rights.

And last but not least, the article does not mention the promised governance of “3 Waters”, a subtle but highly (and rather expensively) profiled propaganda campaign which challenges the campaign against the unvaccinated for priority of place in dividing the New Zealand nation.

THEY ARE US – whatever US are now becoming … and do THEY want any part of it?
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December 14, 2021 8:28am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The only thing responsible for division in NZ is Jacinda Ardern. People need to never forget this. Covid isn’t divisive, government policy is divisive.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:53am
I remember when

Germans will be “vaccinated, cured or dead.”
Interesting that there doesn’t appear to be any relationship drawn between the three outcomes.
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December 14, 2021 8:31am
dime

Joe Schmidt set to join All Blacks coaching team

Thank god for that.

the 2022 version of wayne smith with a bit of luck.

They are saying it was Fosters idea… i guess it doesnt matter. they needed to get a proper coach involved somehow
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December 14, 2021 8:35am
- pdm
  
  dime – Schmidt is taking on a big job carrying Foster.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:03am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  The only way it will work to any degree, is if Schmidt replaces Foster. And Schmidt is good, but he ain’t no Wayne Smith.
  With Foster, it is the Donkey leading the people rather than the other way around. I’d say that he is just putting layers between himself and failure. Or should I say more failure. I’m still pinching myself to understand how the NZRFU thought putting a guy with an ordinary|mediocre record in charge of the best team in the world wouldn’t produce ordinary|mediocre results.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:11am
Maggie Pie

And as if the historic ‘sexual abuse’ exposed at Dilworth Boys School wasn’t repugnant enough….what has now emerged, is that the Board-of-Trustees may have been made aware of the situation nearly 30 years ago!
But for whatever reason, refused to act…..

https://twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1470271403538587654
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December 14, 2021 8:48am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And our old mate Jami-Lee Ross was at that school when all the bad stuff was going on.
  I wonder when he’s going to tell us what he knows (or doesn’t know)?
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:59am
- Frank the tank
  
  On the bright side makes us left-footers look not so bad……
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:31am
- Ehlana
  
  Sadly, a lot of organisations were covering stuff up 30 years ago Maggie – and for way more than 30 years before that.
  I hope that all the uncovering that has gone on in the last few decades will convince future institutions firstly, to take the possibility seriously and take steps to ensure children cannot be harmed and secondly, to understand that this kind of thing does happen and what is important is that it can be reported, victims will be believed and supported and, subject to proper process, perpetrators will not be protected.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:35am
- NoFax
  
  Unfortunately, it is still going on in state care and the government doesn’t cover it up. The media does not report it widely as it goes against the narrative.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:13am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  My youngest sister was considering sending her three boys to Dilworth; that was about 1992. But she had heard very worrying rumours about the place.
  I thought she had been exaggerating; until the truth finally came out.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:25am
Tony Stuart

Is John Campbell’s “You’re among friends” the 2021 equivalent of Katie Bradford’s 2014 verdict on the political polls?

You know the one:
No matter what we talk about, no matter what we do, the polls don’t seem to be shifting at all.”
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December 14, 2021 8:49am
- pdm
  
  Inv – a hard call but I think it is slightly easier to like Katie Bradford than it is to like Campbell.
  
  He fits in the Christine Rankin saying – smarmy.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:05am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  John knows who pays the bills Tony. And his ideology is etched into his forehead. That’s why he failed abysmally as competition to Hosking on TV. But as I say, he got paid a bob or two to be a failure! I still laugh how there was a petition to get him reinstated to TV3, and they only got 20,000 odd from memory. Yeah, NZ loved him…….!!
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:16am
- curry4me
  
  Tony Stuart So, is National going to stop alll advertising with Pravda 2.0; or are they relying on ACT to make them do it?
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’re asking the wrong person. Address your question to Greg Hamilton, General Manager of the National Party.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:27am
    - curry4me
      
      Tony Stuart: OK, thanks.
      
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      December 14, 2021 6:52pm
dime

Got my papers to go north:

https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/kfc-bucket.png?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=531%2C620&ssl=1
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December 14, 2021 8:56am
- alex Masterley
  
  Not enough. You will need a dozen lion red as well.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:59am
  - Over Taxed Worker
    
    Quart bottles only – no change given
    
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    December 14, 2021 5:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Cash, they like cash, shitloads of it
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:43pm
JibberJabber

https://spectator.com.au/2021/12/new-zealand-embraces-gender-ghosts-as-the-national-religion/

Jacinda Ardern paints a compassionate picture of her progressive Labour government, but the reality is that New Zealand is becoming the living embodiment of the smokescreen of kindness of the new left over a reality of economic polarisation and authoritarianism.

Green party MP Dr Elizabeth Kerekere said, ‘As a takatāpui, cis-lesbian fem ally to our takatāpui, trans and intersex non-binary whānau, I am very proud to commend this bill to the house.’

Nobody knows what that means, because it’s nonsense.

Māori woman Rex Landy became a bit of a star with her plain speaking submission to the consultation process and her commentary on how her country is embracing what she called the ‘biggest game of wilful pretend’ that she has ever seen. Landy has challenged the narrative that gender fluidity is native to the Māori culture, claiming that there is no tradition in Māori culture for humans to change sex.
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December 14, 2021 9:08am
Rusty

Will the far North end up becoming shanty towns like in South Africa?

The businesses already doing it tough there are probably going to fall over sooner or later with no spending going on over the holidays.

The media are virtually saying vaxxed people living there cant leave and the vaxxed people wanting to go there cant enter.

The far North is going to be a no go zone and who is to blame for that?
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December 14, 2021 9:19am
Nickc2

Cindy is dubbed as Lenin with Hair.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/republican-senator-under-fire-for-calling-jacinda-ardern-lenin-with-hair/ar-AARK7G5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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December 14, 2021 9:22am
DeepBlue

Don’t let the left win or Hipkins be immortalised. There’s a clear winner in this vote and it is the most selfless act of all.

New Zealand’s Quote of the Year finalists announced. The Link for voting is at the very bottom of the article.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/new-zealands-quote-of-the-year-finalists-announced/5IANWBXHFF3TRCYGV5OAOG473I/
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December 14, 2021 9:27am
- Tony Stuart
  
  “It’s a f@#king goat” should win hands-down!
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:29am
Maggie Pie

“the state reserves the right to be the *sole* interpreter of the needs of society” – Bonito Mussellini (1934)
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December 14, 2021 9:33am
- Ehlana
  
  “Hmm…this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else.”
  
  Too revolting for Twitter?
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:41am
  - oldfella
    
    Here ’tis…
    https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1388216
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:32am
- Ed Snack
  
  Bonito Mussellini, that’s fishing for a quote on the half shell somewhere…
  
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  December 14, 2021 5:54pm
Frank the tank

How long before MIQ is back up and running for all returnees now that the ‘son of Megatron’ Kungflu strain is out in a big way in Sydney.

I give it before Christmas that Brenda pulls up the drawbridge.
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December 14, 2021 9:34am
Chuck Bird

The following is a letter to the editor in today’s Herald. This is how many on the far left think. It is a worry.

“Ideal leadership
With Christopher Luxon a declared Christian, will we see him show Jesus’ care for the poor, by introducing policies that stop the escalation of our country’s devastating inequality?
Will he distribute his wealth to those without homes or other basics of life, in his knowledge of the impossibility of the rich entering the Kingdom of Heaven? Perhaps he will capitalise some of the $90,000 he is currently amassing every week from capital gain on his seven houses and use it to help hundreds of children who are missing out on education because they don’t have devices at home.
A Christian in a position of power sounds perfectly wonderful.
Susan Grimsdell, Auckland Central.
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December 14, 2021 9:41am
- Sacha
  
  Susan Grimsdell – smart arse.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:02am
- Centrist
  
  As a certain Jewish carpenter once said: “The poor you will always have with you…” (Matt 26:11a)
  
  Help and assistance is important, and NZ social welfare and all the numerous charities in NZ do much to assist. As Luxon has already pointed out though, education/training is a key to breaking generational poverty. Positive male role models are also needed in these dysfunctional families.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:08am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  The first four letters of her surname tell us all we need to know about her.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:10am
- All_on_Red
  
  Grimsdell is just another useful idiot of the left and Ardern FanGirl
  https://verbalberbal.com/susan-grimsdell/
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:15am
  - graham
    
    Thanks for that All_on_Red. Helps add context when you have a brief scan of her posts and see where she’s coming from.
    
    According to Ms Grimsdell:
    – Westpac should fund the Westpac Rescue Helicopter entirely out of their own pocket, because they’re rich and can afford it
    – Landlords are “lucky” because they somehow magically manage to buy an extra house, and they shouldn’t put rents up because they’re rich and can afford it
    – The “team of five million” should support any measures the current Labour government might take to try to reduce the inequality in our society – which means “the richest among us” will have to agree to share “just a wee bit more” … but that’s okay because they’re rich and can afford it
    
    I sense a pattern here …
    
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    December 14, 2021 10:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    What I liked best to do was to go tramping, which gave me a love for the environment. This led me to organise a petition against logging ancient native trees in West Coast forests. I also organised another petition against MPs wasting public money, that turned out to be one of the biggest NZ had ever seen, with over 200,000 signatures.
    
    Now, my interests haven’t changed much – feminism, politics, fairness, poverty, the environment, and with such a small family (my two kids live permanently in North America, parents died, sister long gone) I value my friends with all my heart. It’s a good life, and I count myself among the privileged of the world.
    
    ‘Nuff said, I think.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:32am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Working hard to make NZ a place her kids won’t want to live in. That’s pretty much the definition of a hard core lefty.
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:56pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  No one amasses spendable capital gains each week on properties. It’s an increase in the market pricing not in the bank balance. Govt money-dogs are waiting for their portion should you sell. Someone has to help repay Pooh Bah’s borrowing to the RBNZ.
  Mocking Christians will not be without cost.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How does pointing out basic principles of Christianity amount to ‘mocking’?
    
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    December 14, 2021 2:00pm
- lifesgood
  
  And what is Susan GRIMsdell doing for the poor, eh? And how does she now what Luxon does for them? The bloody left are a nasty bunch and interestingly those I know on the left don’t actually do anything for others themselves. They always think it is someone else’s job.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:20pm
Chuck Bird

This is worth watching. Elon is not on brilliant but has a great sense of humour.

‘Tesla as the World’s Biggest Robot Company:’ Elon Musk on AI and U.S. Innovation | WSJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSD_vpfikbE
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December 14, 2021 9:44am
Reid

Documents released by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reveal that drugmaker Pfizer recorded nearly 160,000 adverse reactions to its Covid-19 vaccine in the initial months of its rollout.

The documents were obtained by a group of doctors, professors, and journalists calling themselves Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency, who filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the FDA for their release.

The first tranche of documents reveal that, as of February 2021, when Pfizer’s shot was being rolled out worldwide on an emergency basis, the drugmaker had compiled more than 42,000 case reports detailing nearly 160,000 adverse reactions to the jab…

Full details at link.

https://www.rt.com/usa/543001-pfizer-vaccine-side-effects/
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December 14, 2021 9:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What that omits is the observation by many other experts that the adverse data base reactions are only a small portion of what has actually occurred.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:50am
  - Reid
    
    Yes, it does. 2009 Harvard meta study estimated VAERs represents only 1% of the reported adverse events.
    
    You’d think prior to embarking on the largest biological human experiment in history they’d pay attention to the efficacy of the monitoring tools they had in place, but no, they didn’t do anything of the sort.
    
    But one other thing the article also missed, is the fact those reactions were reported to the FDA at the time it was considering its EUA for the Pfizer vax, and it didn’t make them hesitate, at all. Which is another thing history will expose as an outrageous disregard for medical safety.
    
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    December 14, 2021 12:30pm
  - mawm
    
    The adverse effects recorded by Pfizer will be those recorded by the people running the trial of side effects amongst those the vax was tested on, not those in VAERS. There are some horrible stories about those that had severe side effects being abandoned by Pfizer.
    
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    December 14, 2021 4:11pm
Truman lodge

I wonder if/when we go back into level 4 and get the “go hard go early” sermon from the rostrom. I’m absolutely convinced 2022 will be a nightmare with lockdowns and micro lockdowns, booster shots and freedoms removed.
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December 14, 2021 9:53am
Maggie Pie

Vaccination. THAI style….

https://twitter.com/EliseiNicole/status/1470425382725816326
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December 14, 2021 10:01am
- Chuck Bird
  
  You should not give Comrade Ardern ideas.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:04am
- NoFax
  
  The video states it is in Vietnam. But I wouldn’t expect less from a communist dictatorship.
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:16am
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s Nam not Thailand Mags. You’re good mate Cosy will be foaming at the mouth that you mixed the 2 up.
  
  That said if you ever wanted Kungflu a night on the sauce at Soi Cowboy will probably do the trick!
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:28am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WHOOPSIE!
    My mistake. Didn’t even read it. Only watched the vid.
    The girl looked sooo much like one of the waitresses at Joy Bong.
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:24am
- 1920x1080p
  
  Which part of #Vietnam did you read as Thai?
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe this time we should hope Jaspinda does not read Kiwiblog.
  Coming to a place near you soon
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:27pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Bv3bemwbY

The exit of Merkel makes Taiwan a much sought after Partner for Europe.

There was a time when the Brussels-based organisation used to side line Taiwan and give preference to its economic ties with China instead. However, with China’s best friend Angela Merkel no longer in power, a stark change is noticeable. So, the EU is now promoting better ties with Taiwan and ignoring the threat of disturbing relations with the Chinese. Watch the video to know more. [5:32]
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December 14, 2021 10:07am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzrG3Odgf28

UK, 50% Omicron Now.

I think the idea that this is somehow a milder version of the virus, I think that’s something we need to set on one side and just recognise the sheer pace at which it accelerates through the population. [21:03. Looks like BoJo wants to keep up the panic level over the omicron scariant.]
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December 14, 2021 10:08am
- DeepBlue
  
  50% and one death.
  
  (I wonder if that was a Covid death or something else – it turned out to be be embarrassing for our Govn to have to back track on our recent Covid Death which was a suicide – it should never have been reported as a Covid death. )
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:25am
  - westernScientest
    
    BoJo specifically said ‘with’ not ‘of’ when he announced it, so very much suspect it was someone who was dieing anyway. Which would be consistent with the SA reports, usually they only find out someone has it when they test them as part admission to hospital for something else.
    
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    December 14, 2021 12:41pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Boris said it was a death ‘with’ not ‘from’ omicron, that does not mean it was caused by omicron. People with serious medical issues die of secondary infections all the time.
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:21pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It will be 185% tomorrow. The UK stats are out of whack with reality. How can they measure such massive changes virtually hourly?
  This is very much like required reporting where a number is given to satisfy the boss. Scare is needed.
  BOJO is surprisingly both an intellectual and idiot.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:55am
Yvette

As James Shaw has turned to kicking the Climate Change can down the road by out-sourcing New Zealand’s trees to be planted in other country’s backyards, are protesters converting to the cause of the unvaccinated, or is the question of vaccination and the question then of denying basic United Nations Declarartion of Human Rights, just following a similar band-waggon – something to give purpose and misguided hope to dis-satisfied lives, and justification for the struggle that the likes of Tamaki revel in, rather than enjoying the simple existence – friends, nature and nurture – that God given him?

I thought people would just see the supposed sense in getting vaccinated, or NOT, and that would be it – a simple personal choice – and not then try to change the whole fucking world.
What is with that?
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December 14, 2021 10:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s illegal under the Nuremberg Convention to vaccinate us as there is insufficient trustworthy information available from any medical person or jabber for us to give the prior requisite informed consent.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:00pm
lazza

Lots of words when this will do … Quote:

“But if that is the case, it confirms immediately that traditional Māori knowledge is not scientific.”

An unnecessary statement of the bleeding obvious? Well NO … apparently.

And when a professional can lose his/her chosen hard earned vocation at the behest of the mob, then we really have crossed the line into collective social and communal insanity.
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December 14, 2021 10:09am
ClanMcleod

Laura Dodsworth succinctly explaining why vaccine passports just don’t work and never will.

“An inconvenient truth – vaccine passports don’t work”

https://lauradodsworth.substack.com/p/an-inconvenient-truth-vaccine-passports?

Stop complying. Stop showing papers. This won’t end while people accede to this tyranny. This is nothing to do with health.
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December 14, 2021 10:21am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  A fine philosophy in theory ClanMc, but relies on overwhelmingly large scale simultaneous non-compliance. Would trying that as an individual at one of the police operated travel checkpoints work out well? As Mike Bush said at the beginning of all this crap – ‘….time for a visit to my place’.
  Democracy should have removed the emerging control flavour a year ago but it failed. Sadly there’s a long road ahead with more checkpoints too be overcome.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:03am
WaveyDavey

All those in here who thought Luxon was the new messiah are going to be very, very disappointed

Latest poll has…

N: 32.6 (up 6.4)
L: 39.5 (effectively static)
G: 10.9 (up 2.3)
ACT: 10.6 (down 5.30)

So Luxon’s saved National’s bacon but has not made a dent in L/G

My forecast stands

2023: L
2026: L G/M (and/or)
c2027: 16yo get the vote
2029 on” LoC in perpetuity
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December 14, 2021 10:31am
- Inandout
  
  WD, we are still in an economic dream state with Robbo at the dollar printing press, blissfully ignoring what 2022 holds in store. We will spend as usual this Christmas and begin to reimburse our credit cards in February. Life in a NZ summer is so laid back.
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:27am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Robbo has built an election-buying stash of cash on the back of Covid
    
    It will be wheeled out over the next 2 years to buy the NZ public and they’ll happily sell themselves
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/finance-minister-grant-robertson-granted-authority-to-spend-up-to-41-billion-as-contingency.html
    
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    December 14, 2021 11:56am
    - westernScientest
      
      The problem for him, that he doesnt realise, is that that cash will be worth a lot less by the time the election comes around (his own doing), and any attempt to increase the number of lollies will make the situation even worse.
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:36pm
    - Inandout
      
      WD, will he even compensate house owners who fail their mortgage payments?
      
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      December 14, 2021 12:53pm
- lifesgood
  
  Jeepers, Wavey, I hope you’re not employed as a clairvoyant.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:12pm
- westernScientest
  
  It is a bit of an odd poll, of the mentioned parties there is a drop of 5.3, but an increase of 8.7. Especially the jump of 2.3 to greens without any reduction in labour. That implies either (or both) compounding a of random error (i.e. the poll is a bit of an outlier and by chance happened to have over estimate the two left parties and under estimate the two right parties), or that a bunch of minor/undecided voters went to greens and Nats, just not really sure where they would come from for either of them.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:34pm
Fletch

So, Meng Foon, the Human Rights Commissioner, was on the breakfast show on TV this morning saying that Kiwis need to “dial down” Covid aggression. Um, you’re the Human Rights Commissioner. And our rights have been stomped all over by this govt. How about you do your job?

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/12/13/meng-foon-wants-kiwis-to-dial-down-covid-aggression/
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December 14, 2021 10:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He is doing his job the only way he knows – deflecting and blaming anyone except himself
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:48pm
- bronny1
  
  I put in 2 complaints last week of the 700….
  
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  December 14, 2021 6:01pm
Maggie Pie

So tell me again…why would I want to speak Te Reo Maori? 🙁

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1470235436861714433
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December 14, 2021 11:15am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, his name is Brandon in either language. LOL
  
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  December 14, 2021 11:32am
- Frank the tank
  
  [suggestions of violence or killing people is not acceptable on KB and you absolutely know that. Take two weeks off – Mod]
  
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  December 14, 2021 4:05pm
graham

Looks like some businesses would prefer to stick with their own teams, rather than join in with Jacinda’s “team of five million” (just how many people have hit the unsubscribe button to that, by the way?)

The Herald reports that “a growing number of eateries” are going to offer only contactless takeaways in support of unvaccinated customers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-the-cafes-and-restaurants-refusing-to-open-doors-in-support-of-unvaxxed/FBE35AUVVKCNMV6HHR3AWKNKXA/

Jax Burger Shack in East Tamaki, Auckland, has posted on Facebook, “Come Friday 3 December, you will all remain welcome and be treated equally at our establishment … We refuse to partake in any form of segregation or discrimination at our store.”

A vegan cafe, Gratitude Eatery in Mt Maunganui has stated they “will not participate in the government’s new traffic light system … Our hearts feel heavy that we have had to make this decision but we believe so strongly that this is the right decision for us to include everyone.”

Ulo’s Kitchen in Raglan will serve only takeaways from Friday.

“This is based on all of us here feeling uncomfortable with not being able to allow ‘everybody’ who has supported us from day one.”

And Bettalifestyle Fitness in Otahuhu will only offer outdoor boot camps from December 3.

Turns out that spouting cloying little phrases like “team of five million” doesn’t always work when you have to pull on your grown-up pants and deal with adults rather than children – adults whose businesses and lives you’ve wreaked havoc on … who would’ve thought.
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December 14, 2021 11:19am
- Inandout
  
  graham, if it is correct that eateries are experiencing a 30% downturn in turnover then as businesses they must take urgent action or go under.
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Team of 5 million is now looking like team of 700000. Going downhill into the shitter at a compounding rate.
  Jaspinda, you are DONE
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:52pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Next Monday woke Coster will put on his mask, brown shirt, and jackboots and tell us what we are going to do – yup, before Christmas
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:54pm
Reid

DeSantis (Florida governor) asks for $8m for a new program to remove illegals from Florida and send them to Dem strongholds like Martha’s Vineyard…

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article256483961.html
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December 14, 2021 11:34am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Brilliant. I think right thinking NZers should club together to buy houses next to Labour, Green and Maori party MP’s and give free occupancy to gangs and prison releases. Might alter their perspectives a little.
  
  We could do it all as a charity and get a tax right-off too. 🙂
  
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  December 14, 2021 12:06pm
  - Inandout
    
    UN, when this idea is mentioned I always recall a fellow worker telling me if he won Lotto he would buy a house in Victoria Ave, Remuera and fill it with gang renters. He would wait until the neighbours screamed and then use the Race Relation Act to silence them. Of course this chap was anti the RRA because he said the designers of the Act lived safely in the treed suburbs.
    
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    December 14, 2021 12:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Would that ‘right-off’ be right on?
    
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    December 14, 2021 1:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fuck it, sent the bastards to Gitmo, or back through the border. Mexico have become like the cheese eating surrender monkeys – just waltz on through and fuckin hurry up, we do not want you
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:57pm
- Rich Prick
  
  The trouble is, Martha Vineyard types would welcome the cheap domestic labour.
  
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  December 14, 2021 9:22pm
Fletch

I see that Air NZ is going to require everyone to be vaxxed on domestic flights now, too. Or have a negative test.
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December 14, 2021 12:10pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Only if crew can provide proof. Only fair right?
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:58pm
bronny1

Came across this while looking for something completely non-covid related. The guy looks at why some countries are experiencing a 4th wave (eg. germany, Israel) while others are not (sweden for example). Like to hear thoughts from KK, Reid, cmm etc.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2021/11/20/covid-the-surprising-fourth-wave/?subscribe=success#subscribe-blog-blog_subscription-17
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December 14, 2021 12:24pm
- Reid
  
  This may not make it past the mods, but here goes in hope.
  
  What the link is not discussing is the difference in deaths/cases in vaxed vs unvaxed in each of the countries discussed. That’s a critical distinction because of the emerging evidence the vax degrades one’s immune system capability overall plus it mis-trains the immune system to go after a single protein from an old strain of the virus which no longer exists in the wild. Meaning that if a vaxed person gets infected by a mutated strain then their immune system offers less response to it than it would in a comparable body of an unvaxed person. If you want to check this phenomena of immune system vax compromise just google (ie duck duck) “vaids study” and you’ll get plenty. (Stands for Vaccine-induced Acquired Immune Deficiency.)
  
  There are many potential reasons behind the data he shows, we’d have to know a lot more about each population than he shows, I think he’s over-generalising a bit. For example the Indian data is heavily influenced by IVM, and that goes a long way toward explaining its miraculous results, notwithstanding its low vax rate.
  
  Obviously authorities worldwide are reluctant to provide clear data on vaxed vs unvaxed outcomes, lest it destroy the narratives that are forcing the vax on us whether we want it or not. But that’s the data we need in order to make more sense of the point he’s making.
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:13pm
I remember when

Are we reaching peak levels of unnecessary interference?
In the US Pharmacists are refusing to fill prescriptions issued by physicians.
Believe in Ivermectin, or not, this is way beyond acceptable.
To make it even more alarming official sources continue to use the Ivermectin is an animal health treatment – not for humans.
While the presumption is that it is because of state and/or government direction, what part are big Pharma playing.
Could lack of compliance result in other medicines suddenly becoming more different to procure.
This is way beyond just being a health problem.
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December 14, 2021 12:25pm
surfing

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10305417/Fury-lack-transparency-UKs-Omicron-death-victim-fully-jabbed-vulnerable.html

This is what happens here… they tell us when someone with covid dies….but, they never tell us whether covid was the cause.

Hiding and suppression of information. Makes me furious too.
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December 14, 2021 12:28pm
- mandk
  
  From the Mail headline: “The person could have been hit by a bus”
  
  Exactly. Just like one of the deaths here recorded as being with COVID was actually the result of the guy being shot.
  
  And it raises the question of how many of the 44(?) COVID deaths in NZ have been with the bug, but from something else.
  
  It’s impossible to believe what we are told about COVID deaths, and it seems that it is not just our own PM who wants to keep people scared and compliant.
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh yeah, that lead poisoning incident was covid related. Makes the numbers good
    
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    December 14, 2021 4:02pm
- Julie
  
  I notice one of the two latest Covid deaths is being referred to the Coroner which means no Dr is prepared to sign a death certificate stating that person died of Covid.
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:58pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    It was a suicide.
    
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    December 14, 2021 4:58pm
Maggie Pie

Wonder what David Seymour’s having for lunch? 😀
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December 14, 2021 12:31pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/tibouchina47/status/1470291688811761664

Jacinda Arderns supporters are like Christmas lights, half don’t work and the other half aren’t that bright…
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December 14, 2021 12:43pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Solar powered Christmas lights?
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:23pm
Lucia Maria

Fact checkers have got hold of covid trolling and are now gormlessly amplifying it.

Kiwis warned to be careful after anti-vaccine letters using Unite Against COVID-19 branding left in Hamilton residents’ letterboxes

“Avoid disappointment and book your next 120 boosters in bulk,” the header of the letter said.

Brilliant. This type of report will help to damp down the hypnosis of the population.
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December 14, 2021 12:51pm
krazykiwi

Have been trying local cafes’ responses to my turning up without a papers. Walked into one just now, pointed to some cabinet food that I asked to take away. “Got your vaccine pass?”
“No, do i need it to buy takeaway food”
“Yes. Go and stand outside the door and I’ll bring it to you”
I went out and waited. While I waited a heavily coughing individual arrived, flashed their phone screen whereupon they were invited to choose a table. Through the window I saw the person remove their mask (i can only imagine the phlegm-loaded mask material) which they placed on the table in front of them.
My food arrived and I left. What ridiculous theatre.
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December 14, 2021 1:11pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Gross, re the coughing person. Likely you were much safer waiting outside; though, that should have been your risk to take.
  
  How did you manage to pay if you had to wait outside?
  
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  December 14, 2021 1:20pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Paid using paywave on a heldheld terminal. As it happened I was able to sight and choose what I wanted before being challenged. Otherwise ordering would have been a farce. Imagine standing at the door threshold – blocking entry and egress – while asking the staff to describe the cabinet food options.
    
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    December 14, 2021 2:37pm
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Yep, can imagine. It’s so dehumanising.
      
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      December 14, 2021 5:30pm
- surfing
  
  Nice story.
  
  Whether true or not, I do agree the system is a shambles.
  
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  December 14, 2021 2:18pm
Ehlana

From today’s Stuff: “Simmering gang tensions in Whangārei have erupted in a tit-for-tat series of brazen daylight shootings.

Conflict between the Head Hunters and Black Power in the city has escalated to the point where the gangs are now shooting at each other, near bystanders and children.”

Whangarei is, I believe, in Northland. Perhaps the Tai Tokerau Border Patrol could stop worrying about the rest of the country’s travel plans and do something about their own people?
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December 14, 2021 1:16pm
Maggie Pie

Ma was telling me she heard Hone Heke being interviewed about the roadblocks they’re putting in up North.
Reckoned no matter what you think of the guy, just listening to him, you could tell he’d run rings around the ENTIRE Labor cabinet…. and eat someone like ‘Cuddles Coster’ for breakfast.

Just saying.
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December 14, 2021 1:26pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Your Ma must be very old indeed if she ever heard Hone Heke saying anything!
  
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  December 14, 2021 1:56pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Honestly milkey…you can be such a vagina sometimes
    
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    December 14, 2021 4:26pm
- Ehlana
  
  I think he’s Hone Harawira Maggie. Hone Heke was the guy who chopped down the flag poles. He died in 1850.
  
  Though that might not be an obstacle to running rings around this government.
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:14pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    OLO! Just called her bak she said was having me on with the name. Actually Hone Harawera.
    
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    December 14, 2021 3:45pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You do not have to apologise to those with no humour. You got Mike even!
      
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      December 14, 2021 4:32pm
I remember when

Omicorn: A variant of covid-19.
A more contagious variant sent so that we could find out how far we are along the “learning to live with covid” road.
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December 14, 2021 1:27pm
Aquataur

Sorry if this has already been posted but this is a very insightful article into the blind incompetence at Medsafe regarding recording adverse events from the Pfizer vaccine

https://www.viewspot.co.nz/post/have-the-government-sought-to-restrict-public-knowledge-of-vaccine-risks
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December 14, 2021 1:28pm
Nickc2

3 Waters
Utter arrogance on Cindy’s part. The images of her say it all IMO.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/i-disagree-pm-denies-misleading-councils-over-predetermined-decision-to-mandate-three-waters/ar-AARMn02?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The Maorification of water is coming to your place, like it or not!
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December 14, 2021 1:40pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Wai?
  
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  December 14, 2021 5:49pm
ex-golfer

So the media are finally regularly reporting how many people are in hospital and ICU.

A more important question to be asked is: “What co-morbidities do those in hospital have?”

I would guarantee those in hospital have issues with diabetes, extreme obesity, heart and respritory/asthma complications.

In other words if you are fit and healthy, then COVID does not pose a great risk to you, especially if you are double-vaxxed.

But this doesn’t fit the narrative of fear does it?
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December 14, 2021 2:30pm
- Littletramp
  
  Can being being a regular meth user be added to the list of talked about covid hospital guests co-morbidities?
  
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  December 14, 2021 5:05pm
bythesea

Great letter to ACT/David Seymour on BFD about where does ACT stand on authoritarian responses to Covid and why is it betraying its own principles?
As a paid ACT member this is my thinking too.

Well worth a read:
https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/12/14/dear-david/

Comments are good too – some for / some against, but a discussion nonetheless
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December 14, 2021 2:31pm
Truman lodge

See Black Power club and Headhunters club had an altercation. Club violence is at an all time high. Also club membership has never been higher. I guess young people are choosing these clubs instead of sports clubs.
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December 14, 2021 2:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Shooting is a sport – just saying
  
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  December 14, 2021 4:33pm
Fletch

The bribes still flowing. A message being sent out –

Get a 100 dollar voucher when you get your 1st or 2nd vax today with Whanau Ora. Reply YES or call us on 0800 xxx xxx
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December 14, 2021 3:28pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  $100 sounds better than $50. I received an email today saying I could get a $50 voucher at the grocery store if I got my first or second vaccine shot.
  
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  December 14, 2021 8:03pm
Fletch

From a comment on social media –

My daughter friends dad works at stats NZ and says only 58% of NZ is fully Jabbed. […] The media is lying to try and weaken our resolve.

Make of it what you will…

I also understand the vax busses are parking outside primary schools and some offering kids $50 to get jabbed without parental knowledge or consent.
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December 14, 2021 3:31pm
- Fletch
  
  There’s a video going around (I’ve seen it) on of a pupil from Bethlehem school and his parents talking about the vax bus rolling up and their teachers saying they have to get the vax today. I understand the “pop up” busses have turned up at Hawera and other schools. No consultation, no warning notes to parents, nothing. Just telling kids they have to have it done.
  
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  December 14, 2021 3:42pm
graham

In Auckland, Maori and Pacific people have low vaccination rates. In answer, various groups are joining forces to get the vaccination rates up before the Auckland borders open. They’ve identified the areas that need attention, they’ve got mobile units going, they’re going house to house and door to door.

In Northland, Maori people have low vaccination rates. In answer, Hone Harawira is … setting up road blocks to stop people going into the area.

I know which approach I think is the best.
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December 14, 2021 3:54pm
Fletch

Liz Gunn interviews Casey Hodgkinson, who has been in a wheelchair since her jabs. Makes you want to cry ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_5pL74EoA
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December 14, 2021 4:01pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/127280873/diver-caught-with-three-suitcases-of-pua-on-south-marlborough-coast
OK: so what is his name and what are his details?
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December 14, 2021 4:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Gathering rights for special people. Going in the hangi/bbq at Xmas day
  
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  December 14, 2021 5:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like Labour really wants to hit Luxon over his calls to relax the Traffic settings in Auckland.

Last week the PM stated that Christopher Luxon wanted to let Covid-19 rip (through the country).
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/12/jacinda-ardern-hits-back-at-christopher-luxon-over-her-decision-to-ignore-health-advice-on-covid-19-traffic-light-system.html

Today in Parliament when Luxon was querying the PM over how many business failures she expected in Auckland, Kiritapu Allen interjected with the question:
How many people do you want to kill, mate?

(Q.2) https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20211214_20211214_16

At least she had the good grace to realise what she had said and later withdrew the question and apologised.
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December 14, 2021 5:12pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  They know how damaging the extended restrictions are and therefore do not want to hear anyone challenging them. Must be very conscience triggering.
  
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  December 14, 2021 5:29pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Luxon should have told her to stop scaring people with her science denial.
  
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  December 14, 2021 6:58pm
- rangitoto
  
  How many have Labour’s gang friends killed?
  
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  December 14, 2021 7:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear,

looks like road blocks will be in operation in the Gisborne district these holidays…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/457895/tairawhiti-community-leaders-call-for-covid-19-checkpoints-over-summer
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December 14, 2021 5:16pm
- sooty
  
  Ain’t you lucky, you will get a free sticker if you produce your power bill, rates demand doesn’t work as not everybody has one!
  
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  December 14, 2021 7:30pm
CAKE FACE1

It looks like Cindy’s Socialist Republic of Aotearoa is here to say. Everyone needs to prepare. I have travelled through many socialist hellholes, so I can give you the benefit of my experiences. From Albania to Venezuela, socialism has very distinct effects on the senses. How will Aotearoa look, taste, smell, feel and sound in our glorious socialist future?

The look of socialism is grey. The buildings are grey. The people are grey. The skies are grey. Sometimes, in the words of William Gibson, the sky is the “colour of television, tuned to a dead channel”. Indeed, viewing socialist countries is like having your nose pressed up to a black and white television. Occasionally, if you are lucky, there will be grey mixed with a shit brownish tinge, to give you some variety from the never-ending sea of grey. Brutalism is the name of the socialist game. If, like the Counting Crows, grey is your favourite colour, socialism has a treat in store for you.

How does socialism taste? The taste of socialism is the meanest gruel imaginable, in quantities insufficient to survive. Socialists turn delicious national dishes into crimes against humanity. For example, Peking Duck can be tasty delight, but prepared by a socialist will taste as if it was prepared using the chefs’ feet. Any countries national dish will be despoiled by the socialist. Chicken Kiev in the Ukraine? Only if you fancy food poisoning…

What is the smell of socialism? If there is one distinguishing feature of socialism, it is of environmental catastrophe. There are lists of the most polluted hellholes in the world. Curiously, the most polluted countries in the world list matches almost perfectly against the list of countries that used to be, or currently are, a socialist nation. Estonia and Finland are neighbours. Estonia was a socialist paradise, so is one of the most polluted counties in the world. Naturally, their capitalist neighbour Finland is one of the least…

The smell of socialism, then, is the sweet smell of pollution. Quite why environmentalists are typically socialists is somewhat puzzling.

How does socialism feel? The central plans of socialism require enforcement. Socialism is the system of the gulag, using torture and murder routinely. The feel of socialism is the never-ending pain of the crack of the whip upon flesh, or the jackboot forever stomping on the face.

How does socialism sound, dear reader? Well, not like Western music obviously. There is no Bach or Mozart. Socialist music is very, very bad. In terms of speaking in socialist nations, this is typically nasty. Mainly, there are orders, barked out by bureaucrats. And there are loud factories, producing goods no one asked for or wants. Nature is typically silent as it has been destroyed, as part of some failed five-year plan.

New Aotearoans have had a taste of socialism, but we are only a few steps along Cindy’s Great Leap Forward.

CAKE has seen the future. It is murder.
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December 14, 2021 6:11pm
Maggie Pie

Just watching the News and all the motorists caught up at the roadblocks…. along with predictions of what it’s likely to be like over the next couple of weeks.

Sad to say, but my partner believes there’s likely to be more people killed in car accidents over the holiday period, than have died of Covid in the last two years.
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December 14, 2021 6:39pm
- sooty
  
  As soon as they get past the arden wall they are going to put the foot down and speed, cos they are pissed.
  Who thinks plod will have speed cameras just up the road?
  
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  December 14, 2021 10:04pm
fernglas

This road block thing. What a good chuckle to wake up to. Your responsible cop says this:

“Hill said police were committing to no unreasonable delays at the border checkpoints into Northland, but could not define what was unreasonable.

He said going by modelling, police hoped to finish a single car’s ‘stop and check’ in under a minute, but it could go up to three minutes if people did not have the correct documentation or evidence.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018824539/police-explain-how-holiday-covid-19-checkpoints-will-work

The only figure I could find for traffic figures going North at Christmas was for 2008, which put it at 13,500 per day, so if say 6,000 of those are stopped at Uretiti on Boxing Day and take a minute (haha) to check, it will be New Year’s Eve before the last of them gets to Whangarei.

Thanks NZ.
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December 14, 2021 8:34pm
NZer In Exile

Didn’t Pfizer state they could rustle up a new vaccine version for any new variant in a jiffy?
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December 14, 2021 10:08pm
CAKE FACE1

I lived in Europe for decades, and many of my friends came from former communist countries.

They would say that since their country changed to being a capitalist country when they young, adjustment for them wasn’t so difficult.

However, they all mentioned how their parents struggled. The problem is that communism infantilised the people, who eventually became dependent upon the State for everything.

This is what Cindy is trying to implement in New Zealand – the complete infantilisation of the people, so that they will be dependent upon her, and her Red government.

The childish baby talk Cindy routinely employs is part of this process. On a more fundamental level, the massive expansion of the size and influence of the State aims to turbo charge people’s dependency.

Most importantly, Cindy wants to drag our Covid “crisis” as long as she can. Only by creating never-ending terror, like her hero Stalin, can she have the power and control she craves.

It is easy to underestimate Cindy, because she lacks basic intelligence. However, Cindy makes up for a lack of intelligence by pure cruelty – she appears to be addicted to malice.

Will the international borders ever open? Cindy wants to keep them closed…
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December 15, 2021 8:11am
lazza

[deleted] Sepaloni lying her socks off on RNZ this arvo.

The disgraceful Mistress of of implausibable deniability.

She must be sacked … or there is no democratic accountability
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December 15, 2021 5:35pm

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