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December 17, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 December 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

No surprises.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127301508/covid19-pfizer-vaccine-approved-for-children-aged-511

It will be interesting to see what restrictions are placed on unvaccinated children. If there are no penalties for unvaccinated children I would be surprised if rates in this age group hit 40 percent.

But the government is now boxed in. How can they allow unvaccinated 11 year olds into cafes, but prohibit 12 year olds?

In order to avoid another Treaty claim, expect the government to bend over backwards to get Maori kids vaccinated. The irony is that I doubt that Maori parents will be too keen to take up the offer.

Anyway, the next step is vaccinees for the 6 months to 4 year old group. Expect Medsafe to give the green light in April 2022.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/582380-fauci-says-babies-and-toddlers-could-be-eligible-for-covid-19-vaccine-by

BTW the gap between Maori who have had one doses and two doses seems stuck at 10 percentage points. In the Bay of Plenty it is 13 percentage points. It will shrink a bit but it is now clear that thousands of Maori are not going back for a second shot.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
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December 17, 2021 8:00am
- mandk
  
  Given that the risk to children of a COVID infection is extremely low, I am amazed that any parent would consider approving the jab for their kids.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:05am
  - Cinematic
    
    I shan’t be.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t know how many it will be. Without sanctions, my guess is 40 percent. That is about how many parents are terrified.
    
    If unvaccinated children are excluded from public places such as libraries, pools, and possibly parts of the education system, it will be much higher.
    
    Vaccinating 5 year olds to protect obese diabetic adults is just wrong. We vaccinate 5 year olds against a range of diseases to protect THEM. And we know that pre 1950s millions of children died awful deaths from these diseases. Vaccines were a miracle.
    
    But this is totally different.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:17am
    - Michael Johnston
      
      Sorry! I downticked in error. I agree with you entirely.
      
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      December 17, 2021 8:18am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The once-were vaccines were not DNA modifiers by wannabe population eugenicists.
      
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      December 17, 2021 8:25am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Neither is this one. Why would you try to suggest that it has any impact on DNA whatsoever?
        
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        December 17, 2021 9:33am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Fight, there are mechanisms in humans that allow mRNA to be reverse incorporated in DNA, so not impossible. I would agree that so far evidence for such mechanisms being triggered has not been presented unequivocally.
        
        However potential damage to one’s immune system by unintended side effects is rather better established and should indeed be properly investigated. Current actions seem to be foolishly, even dangerously heedless rushing into mandating potentially damaging and unnecessary treatments.
        
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        December 17, 2021 11:05am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        No there isn’t.
        
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        December 17, 2021 5:40pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      The bottom line is that omicron will arrive.
      
      It will be brought in by fully vaccinated people.
      
      We will assist through the MIQ virus incubation system.
      
      We would have done less than nothing to prepare. Hospitals, ICU, in home care, immune boosting, self treatment options etc
      
      Our one strategy will be forcing everyone to take an imperfect leaky vaccine. That long term will do more harm than good.
      
      All the costs and heartache to date will have been a complete waste of time and money.
      
      Because we did not get to herd immunity with the other variants our natural immunity will struggle and we will be hit very hard.
      
      I will say that again because we don’t have any natural immunity we could be hit very hard and nothing we do will stop that, we can only delay the inevitable at huge cost.
      
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      December 17, 2021 8:30am
      - marcw
        
        “The bottom line is that omicron will arrive.
        It will be brought in by fully vaccinated people. ”
        
        It already has been, the arrival from Germany of a positive omicron infected person has been confirmed as a fully, double vaccinated person. There will be many more.
        
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        December 17, 2021 11:35am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Scenario: go full UK and close NZ for 15 years. We might be ready then for the few of us left to rebuild. Anxiety will take out 70% within 10 years and other causes like economic failure and starvation another 28%.
        
        The residue can cue up for Mr Musks mars trips.
        If you want to see how bad it can be look at the Daily Mail–the UK has gone full crazy over a “virus” stated to have virtually no effect.
        Did we select politicians to exercise max stupidity?
        
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        December 17, 2021 4:40pm
    - Over Taxed Worker
      
      Maybe just take the average of what Labour’s support in the polls is. Good indication of the terrified.
      
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      December 17, 2021 8:46am
    - bronny1
      
      Hang on. Look at how many parents have rushed to vax their 12 year olds “I can’t wait till he is 12 and can get the jab”. Will be the same scared, easily manipulated believers that will rush theri young kids in….
      
      I have heard numerous people say “we aren’t going to family Xmas (or whatever event) this year because x is 10 and can’t get vaxxed yet.”
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:00am
    - Lee C
      
      The shocking thing is that you can confidently predict that 40% of peole would be thick enough to have their baby vaccinated for ‘covid’.
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:42am
    - Fletch
      
      Yep. People are standing on the shoulders of children now so they themselves feel protected. That must be the govt strategy. Because kids are the least at risk from Covid.
      
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      December 17, 2021 10:38am
    - Mrs_Right
      
      “ If unvaccinated children are excluded from public places such as libraries, pools, and possibly parts of the education system, it will be much higher.”
      
      I don’t think Cindy would be going this far as it would be political suicide for her.
      
      I have couple of small kids. The older won’t be getting the vaccine the other one is still a baby. I know a lot of parents and none are too keen to get their kids vaccinated either.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:49am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Do you think they have Jabs getting out of date/use they need to get rid of……..? //
        
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        December 17, 2021 12:47pm
  - Random T Person
    
    You’d be surprised. Some can’t wait. Educated, intelligent people, one mate with a PhD in biology, can’t wait.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:04am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      That’s not surprising.
      
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      December 17, 2021 3:37pm
  - MCōs
    
    I think you mean the risk *from* a covid infection is low. Kids can get infected just as easily as anyone else; and pass it on.
    I have two four year old grandchildren and I know their parents intend to get them vaccinated once they turn five.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:44am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Apparently not, children can catch Covid but after shrug it off without symptoms, and the evidence strongly suggests that asymptomatic people do not normally pass the virus on though possibly can in some cases. As a result children are less of a risk in that way than older people who are more likely to be generally infectious.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:07am
      - Batman
        
        This isn’t a hard rule. Some children will catch it and fall extremely ill, and not through the convenient excuses usually posed around here of body weight being the *real* cause.
        
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        December 17, 2021 11:38am
      - RightNow
        
        I’m sure Batman will cite sources for that bold claim
        
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        December 17, 2021 11:47am
      - Batman
        
        Of course! The below gives a nice rundown with appropriate sourcing of everything.
        
        https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2021/07/28/dont-underestimate-covid-in-children.html
        
        Am I saying it’s a devastating murder virus armed to the teeth and looking to feed on children? No.
        
        Am I saying there is a risk (as opposed to Ed’s breezy dismissal) and we should prioritise protection of our children? Yes.
        
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        December 17, 2021 11:56am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Missed the typo, the comment is supposed to say that “most” shrug it off. Off course some get serious symptoms, but in the UK figures, once you eliminate children (<17 in this case) with significant comorbidities, the number of deaths is statistically no different from zero. The USA calculates and records differently, but there also the number of healthy children who die from Covid is vanishingly small, does depend on your definition of “healthy” I guess.
        
        The other side of the coin is the Vaccine Adverse events, which includes the possibility of death. That is not zero for healthy children though the risk is relatively low.
        
        Because of the issues around recording the data these things are hard to pin down exactly. The UK for example keeps relatively good records, but counts all people who are within 14 days of their last jab as not having had the vax. So if a child was vaccinated and dies within 14 days, their death is recorded as being an unvaccinated one, which rather skews the risk calculations. The USA is much worse with the true numbers “killed” by Covid varying enormously depending on what assumptions one makes about the recorded deaths.
        
        However I refer back to that Harvard paper based on an all causes mortality analysis that concludes that vaccination for the young appears unjustified and apparently unethical.
        
        Findings like that should surely warrant proper investigation because the consequences are actually very real, the madness of mandating a treatment that kills more than it saves is surely obvious even to a Batman ? So why is there so much opposition to even investigating it ?
        
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        December 17, 2021 12:13pm
      - Batman
        
        Sorry your bulldust fails to hold water when you say:
        
        “but in the UK figures, once you eliminate children (<17 in this case) with significant comorbidities, the number of deaths is statistically no different from zero.”
        
        So, after you manipulate the numbers to your ideal outcome? Or, you give no shits about children with comorbidities? It’s one of the two.
        
        There’s no reliable evidence of adverse reactions being proven and actually linked to the vaccines, until there is, those claims continue to be made up crap from the internet. There are systems in place both here and overseas for that purpose.
        
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        December 17, 2021 2:15pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Sorry Bato, reported you by accident when I was seeking to reply.
        
        Statistically the risk of covid increases with age and needs to be weighed against the potential adverse side effects of the vaccine.
        
        Right now the odds are such that smaller kids are safer catching covid.
        
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        December 17, 2021 12:42pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        “ the evidence strongly suggests that asymptomatic people do not normally pass the virus”
        That’s a very interesting statement. Many times the resident antivaxxer ignorant here proclaim that the vaccinated are far more likely to be the virus spreaders because they are asymptomatic and will interact normally. But now we see that asymptomatic spread is very rare. So the vaccine is effective, who knew?? The actual real world stats of infection spread being vastly higher in unvaccinated make sense. Well I never.
        
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        December 17, 2021 3:49pm
  - Fletch
    
    I think the govt have dug themselves a bit of a hole on this. Watch for the adverse effects (and there will be some) and they’ll have to deal with the protective momma bear. Vaxxing yourself is one thing, kids are another…
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:35am
    - Fletch
      
      Opps, meant hit delete, not report…lol
      
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      December 17, 2021 10:40am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      It’s a dark scenario, but I agree: vaccinated kids dying for no other apparent reason may change a lot of minds.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:44am
  - Exclamation Mark
    
    How about if your child has a serious health issue that makes them vulnerable to covid and their specialist at Starship Hospital strongly recommends they be vaccinated?
    
    This is the case with my niece, you would be fucking bonkers to ignore that sort of advice.
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:43pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Everybodies risk profile is different. Some kids with serious comorbidities are probably better off getting vaccinated.
      
      But that is almost certainly the rare exception rather than the rule because healthy kids don’t die from covid (<1 in a million), they do however have risk of serious vaccine injury – eg 1 in 2700 teenage boys in HK got serious heart damage from vaccines in recent paper. There is also a (very low) probability of death.
      
      It is unethical to force a kid to be vaccinated, with unknown long term risks (which will only be known years from now), when it does not benefit them (precautionary principle rules).
      
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      December 17, 2021 3:20pm
  - Aunty
    
    An under 10 year old has died from Covid today in New Zealand as reported by the NZ Herald. And a 30-something died from it here last week as well.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-child-dies-of-virus-youngest-in-new-zealand/GWHSBDGSEB4KDRJ7GGJLNQLUCE/
    
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    December 17, 2021 5:37pm
- Inandout
  
  BY, why not from infancy like the other vaccines? Oh just remembered..the PM has a pre-schooler.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No it has nothing to do with Jacinda.
    
    It is because the Pfizer trial for the 6 months to 4 year old group is not finished. But it will be next week. Expect Medsafe to approve the vaccines for this age group around April 2022. So the toddlers will be lining up around that time.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:42am
  - Aunty
    
    Oh dear. It appears a child under 10 has died from Covid in New Zealand. That is such sad news, and just before Christmas too.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-child-dies-of-virus-youngest-in-new-zealand/GWHSBDGSEB4KDRJ7GGJLNQLUCE/
    
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    December 17, 2021 5:33pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      This is shocking clickbait.
      A child is dead sadly, but the cause of death is not known. The child did have Covid.
      
      Stuff coverage is much more balanced.
      
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      December 17, 2021 6:21pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  Its called a bugger’s muddle. They are crowing about 90% vaxxed but no one seems to know what happens now.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:17am
  - Yvette
    
    Tomtoddy
    95 percent of the eligible 4.2 million ( 12 population) of the “Team of Five Million” is only 79.8 percent of that so-called “Team of Five Million” – so as Jacinda so often has to say, of almost everything her Government touches, there is “Obviously much more mahi, work, to do”
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:35am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    We were told that once we were vaccinated life would return to normal.
    
    Lies upon lies.
    
    70 to 75% vaccinated now they want 90% plus
    It is very effective, turns out next to useless with unknown long term effects.
    Hard and early, try not to laugh.
    Short and sharp. Longest lockdown ever.
    Not mandatory, nobody forced to take the vaccine, looks mandatory to me.
    No punishment for those that don’t take it, how is that haircut looking, 2 classes of citizenship.
    
    And Mark my words well, it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:41am
  - Phronesis
    
    We wait until the vax wears off and then do it all again. Apparently you’re not really vaxxed till you’ve had 3 doses now. And we are going to do everything we can to keep the clearly milder variants out.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Four doses will be needed by the time most have three, then five….
      
      Vaccination as a service (VaaS), all hail the profitability of Pfizer.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:20am
      - Sean OConnor
        
        I’m stealing the VaaS acronym from you, it’s tremendous, love your work.
        
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        December 17, 2021 12:14pm
      - bronny1
        
        received a great flyer in the mail today inviting me to get in early, don’t miss out, book in for your next 120 boosters now…!
        
        VFF. Great piece of work. Looked totally legit.
        
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        December 17, 2021 2:07pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    The goal posts move again. Fully vaccinated will mean having the booster. Current Vax cards will expire and less vulnerable to fraud Social Credit Cards will be issued to all Good citizens.
    
    The only decision Bloomfield is making is when to start boosters to get them done by May for the winter surge. If you have one now do you need a 4th dose in May, or are you better off individually waiting until May or checking off the treadmill?
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:04am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    What happens now? Nobody knows. Just keep on getting jabbed every 3 months with a vaccine that wears off if you don’t but the risks remain the same. Welcome to the hamster wheel. Great business model.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:29am
  - JerJer
    
    I know what happens now. People that are were vaccinated six months ago, are pretty much unvaccinated.
    
    The Auckland border is now open, the virus will spread against a backdrop of waning immunity.
    
    Omricon is coming, which renders the vaccines, the vaccine passes and the mandates totally pointless. People will be forced to get boosters, but they do not really work against Omricon either.
    
    US companies previously with a vaccine mandate in place are now removing them in the face of Omricom, because, really what is the point in banning the unvaccinated from work, when the vaccinated group are now just as exposed again….
    
    What to do…….will be interesting.
    
    My guess, lock downs and waffle, whilst doing nothing.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:34am
  - mawm
    
    Because vaccination was the wrong approach!
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:20am
    - alloytoo
      
      Well for some bizarre reason our government doesn’t appear to have investigated treatment alternatives.
      
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      December 17, 2021 12:44pm
- Nickc2
  
  More Koha for second and subsequent vaccinations?
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:27am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Law of diminishing returns BY – Northland Maori 1st jab rate down to < 100 per day now cf ~250 (from memory) last week. Can't see them getting to 90% any time soon with ~4k to go.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:36am
- cmm
  
  ” I would be surprised if rates in this age group hit 40 percent”
  
  I will be extremely surprised if they don’t hit 80+%. Here’s why:
  
  1) You underestimate the mamma-bear factor. Just tell mothers it is for their children’s safety and they will walk over broken glass. To not get your child vaccinated will be seen as borderline child abuse. Almost every mother will be under immense psychological pressure of the most evil sort. See anecdote below.
  
  2) A bit deal is being made about Omicron infecting younger people and how infectious it is. This will trigger the mamma bear.
  
  When one of our kids was born (I don’t recall which one, so I can’t say if this was in South Africa or NZ), the nurse came around immediately after the birth wanting to do some jabs. My wife wanted to wait for at least a couple of days due to this providing some adjustment time for the baby (she’s a trained nurse too). To then paraphrase what the nurse then said:
  * It is your choice, but we recommend you do it now.
  * If you don’t do it now, then we can’t guarantee your baby’s safety.
  * If the baby gets sick or dies then it is on your head.
  
  That’s the kind of pressure mothers are under – knowing that even if nothing happens other mothers were tut-tut about how she is an irresponsible mother and anit-vaxxer that puts her child at risk.
  
  There’s nothing worse to most mothers than the thought that she is being perceived as a bad mother.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes good point. I guess time will tell.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:43am
  - Fletch
    
    I think it could go the other way. When the adverse effects hit (and they will) the momma bears will be up in arms demanding answers from the govt.
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:40am
  - Sacha
    
    Goodness. In the good old Plunket days, my kids didn’t have their first vaccinations until they were about 12 months old. Whatever happened to the resistance that newborns carry from their mothers in utero and by breast feeding? Or was that just a lot of Old Wives Tales? (Like aspirating before injecting, perhaps?)
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:57am
- Scott
  
  Quite right Benedict. The Maori families I know are not at all keen on the vaccine. Given that in the United States just over 400 young people between the ages of zero and 17 have died of Covid, or with Covid, this is out of over 600,000 deaths, the risk is very small. The calculator works it out to be 0%.
  
  What is the risk of the vaccine? I know my 22 year old son was sick for three days off work after a second shot. How do we know that this is very safe for five-year-olds?
  
  Meanwhile they are pushing boosters to ward off the threat of Omicron. So far in Great Britain one person has died of, or at least with, Omicron.
  
  Is there no sense of proportion in our government anymore?
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:41am
- amospicton
  
  Absolutely shockingly dishonest covid ‘advertisement’ on tv last night where an elderly Maori gentleman says he’s getting vaccinated to protect his 4 year old grand-daughter. I think they know it’s a lie but do it anyway to frighten people into getting vaxxed. Just disgraceful.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:49am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Note he was a port worker. These guys will be way over covid, PPE and a fortnightly nose prod. They will also have waning vax protection. Group 1 and 2 alone take months to boost.
    
    Surely this is where Omicron will enter the country, from fishing boats and shipping lines. It is called Covid fatigue.
    
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    December 17, 2021 6:27pm
- bronny1
  
  And on the same day that MOH finally admits, in a letter to vaccinators, that the myo/pericarditis risk is real and that people should be told of this”rare” side effect and doctors should report it to CARM ( instead of diagnosing anxiety). If they had done that 6 mths ago when the rest of the world knew about the risk we would have decent data.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:58am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Once you have started the process of moving from natural immunity to artificial immunity, can you go back.
  
  Or are you on a never ending hamster wheel.
  
  Once you have eaten your free lunch will you have a choice to stop? Personally I doubt it.
  
  1st shot, 2nd shot, now booster 3rd shot 6 months later, now they are talking about 5 months between shots.
  
  Is it even possible to just say I have had enough.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:00am
  - Goon
    
    How long before OAS (original antigenic sin) enters the Covid lexicon (….or will be expunged from the narrative?)
    
    Stupid name but its a real thing, talked about by white coated geeks for years:
    
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/
    https://www.jimmunol.org/content/202/2/335
    
    Not such a big deal with alpha and delta:
    
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772613421000068
    
    but possibly becoming a thing with omicron (and subsequent iterations), and something to be mindful of when considering whether to step (back) onto the booster treadmill
    
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312821005709?via=ihub
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21645515.2021.1949953
    https://search.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/en/covidwho-1127543
    
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    December 17, 2021 2:52pm
- Random T Person
  
  There is no way my children are getting jabbed. No way in hell.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  This decision is medical malfeasance and those who approved it should be held liable in a court of law. Heavy penalties need to be imposed. This is probably the worst and most disgraceful political decision I have ever seen in my life. Ever. This is nothing to do with health. It never has been.
  People need to understand this and immediately stop complying with the insanity.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:22am
  - cjn
    
    Isn’t there a Commissioner for Children? Would it be part of his role to inform and reassure parents and to protect children? In the States there is an advocacy group Children’s Health Defence. What have we got? Having signed up with Pfizer are we committed to take all their products? Many contributors write of the hamster wheel. I’d be sad to think that little children are being put aboard.
    
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    December 17, 2021 5:13pm
- Ed Snack
  
  I posted a link to a paper a couple of days ago that concluded, based on an analysis of all cause mortality figures (because the Covid deaths and vaccine adverse events data is unreliable in general), that vaccination for the healthy young was completely unjustified and would lead overall to a higher death toll.
  
  Why is this government, and for that matter governments in many places, so determined to kill young people for the sake of not being proved wrong over their vaccine mandates and other policies ? Or at least, are prepared to put these young people at risk without seriously investigating the evidence.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:01am
  - Batman
    
    That you managed to find one paper that fits your preferred narrative, doesn’t mean the avalanche of evidence showing it is safe.
    
    Maybe a little humility to accept that other people can be smarter on some topics is required here. Apparently everyone is equally equipped to be an expert in any field!
    
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    December 17, 2021 11:41am
    - bronny1
      
      maybe stepping outside MSM to some science journals would tell you that it isn’t my any means definitively safe. Why has Taiwan banned Pfizer for young people. Why have other countries banned mRNA for under 30s? Why would scientists publish VERY UNPOPULAR papers showing the risks of AE? And why would people waste their time trying to report an AE to VAERS or similar if it wasn’t real?
      
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      December 17, 2021 2:13pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        None of this negated Batman’s point.
        You and all those like you here have zero expertise or breadth of knowledge to evaluate any of the “science “ you have read. Therefore you have nothing to benchmark against in terms of reliability or credibility and just cherry pick any quack publications that reinforce your fear based opinions.
        
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        December 17, 2021 5:39pm
Warren

Coronavirus : Healthline call logs reveal
Positive man who died at home wasn’t spoken to by a Clinician dispite low oxygen levels.
Headlines, phone call logs obtained by Newshub show Auckland man with covid-19 who died at home had low oxygen levels and was struggling to breathe, but wasn’t spoken to by a clinician dispite assurances he would be called back immediately.
This case caused outrageand was labeled not true by those in Healthline but it has takena lot of hard work from his daughter to unravel the truth and also says home isolation is still not fit for purpose. His daughter has scrutinized every page of call logs her father had with Health Officials before he died asked to remain anonymous.
“It’s devastating and you would say this person needs to be in a hospital” she tells Newshub.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/12/coronavirus-healthline-call-logs-reveal-covid-positive-man-who-died-at-home-wasn-t-spoken-to-by-clinician-despite-low-oxygen-levels.html
Again another example of our kind and caring Government and Health officials that lie and decieve to cover ” fatal” mistakes they have made and make out it wasn’t their fault when all the time they know themselves they should have done better.
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December 17, 2021 8:00am
- mandk
  
  Yes, but the government needs an ongoing flow of plague deaths to keep the plebs scared and compliant.
  
  The poor gentleman was collateral damage.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:16am
- cmm
  
  It amazes me that these people didn’t take him to the hospital or call an ambulance.
  
  Don’t piss about with Healthlines when someone is struggling to breath.
  
  They really should have taken those 1200 (or whatever) nurses that they stood down and put them on the Healthline. Most of the people on Healthline are not medically trained.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:45am
  - mara
    
    Perhaps he was one of the many PI overstayers who have no intention of presenting for tests or vax and prefer to stay in hiding. How does Ardern count those?
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:53am
- Random T Person
  
  Maybe they just don’t see COVID as all that dangerous, and this dude’s other health issues meant he was not long for this world anyway. I don’t know. (and yes that is a callous comment).
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:07am
- mawm
  
  The coordinated plan of denying a person prehospital treatment is the biggest scandal of this pandemic. It borders on being criminal.
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:29am
  - Dairy Flat
    
    This. There is a very informative Joe Rogan interview with Dr. Peter McCullough on Spotify. The doc is an expert cardiologist and epidemiologist in the US and he specifically covers this aspect of the virus responses governments utilize. It is a long interview but we’ll worth the time to hear expert commentary.
    
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    December 17, 2021 11:11am
- Sacha
  
  I think this event demonstrates very clearly that the government gives its modellers and other sundry ‘experts’ more credence than the medical professionals who have clinical experience in managing viral illnesses.
  But I wonder at the ethics of the person who didn’t check back on the ill man, when we all know that difficulty breathing during a respiratory episode can be life threatening. Was he/she cowed by government regulations? If this is happening, we need to know –
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:04am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Haven’t heard much from Cat Pause recently.
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December 17, 2021 8:00am
- CJames
  
  Climate Emergency has fallen off the Agenda as well. CoP26 doesn’t get a mention.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:19am
  - Tempist
    
    The MSM can only deal with one existential crisis at a time…
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is a good thing
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:36am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She needs to be told the input hole is bigger than the output hole
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:24am
- I remember when
  
  London school:
  Lead in their end-of-year play goes down with covid.
  Replacement steps in and the play goes ahead.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  She’s just published a paper on those devices that jam your teeth shut.
  
  Teeth are for chewing: a critical review of the conceptualisation and ethics of a controversial intraoral weight-loss device
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34893725/
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:04am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Oh my God – FAT studies is a thing.
    As long as it is a victim group, it is a gravy train for some and a new scared cow in the making.
    
    Funny thing about fat people, they are overwhelming victims of their own making and the focus of Ms. Pause seems entirely to be around the issue of society stigmatising them.
    
    Its not like people can change change their sexuality or their race, but fat people can actually do something about it.
    Yet, under the lens of Fat Studies- they reject the notion they should do anything about it, and it is society that should change!
    …..So when it comes to being victims, LOL, Fat people are also lazy!
    
    On the other hand: at least fat people don’t become a burden on the taxpayer long term.
    – You don’t see many truly obese people in retirement villages. 😉
    
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    December 17, 2021 1:44pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Oh dear!
    
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    December 17, 2021 2:20pm
Benedict Yu

“Baker also wanted the Government to delay opening the border to Australians on January 17 by at least a month. He called for a complete review of MIQ and wanted the Ministry of Health to promote booster vaccines, which he believed should be issued five months after the second vaccination.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300480140/covid19-first-person-in-nz-with-omicron-had-flown-from-germany-six-days-ago

This guy Baker is at it again. Oblivious to the misery and cost of continued closure of the border.

It is the ‘elmination strategy’ version 2. All that did was turn New Zealand into a hermit kingdom for 12 months while the Government did apparently nothing to prepare for the inevitable arrival of the Delta variant.

Let’s say we delay opening the border for a month. What then? Omicron will still be there.

Oh and he wants booster vaccines after 5 months. Why? Why not 4 months? Or 3 months?

Surely it is time to tell this guy. “If we need you, we will get in touch.”
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December 17, 2021 8:00am
- Over Taxed Worker
  
  The guy is drunk on the publicity.
  Probably feels for the first time in his life he “is someone important”.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:08am
  - Ruahine
    
    Same with Bloomfield having trouble concealing his glee that the new improved omicron virus had arrived at last. Lockdowns for 2022. Yea.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:26am
    - Sacha
      
      Some fairly experienced medical people are thinking that the Omicron variant is the last gasp of the ‘pandemic’. Many people will get sick, but not severely and that it will be all over by next spring in the northern hemisphere. Let’s hope they are right.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:09am
      - alloytoo
        
        The data suggests that Pfizer Double jab won’t stop you getting Omicron, but will dramatically lower your odds of serious illness.
        
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        December 17, 2021 12:57pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    No, I think he’s just a cautious individual.
    
    Bear in mind though, that he’s giving advice from his expertise. I’m ok with that, & am also ok with Jacinda making a decision that differs from his recommendation. Her role is to consider all aspects, not just the medical. It’s a political decision. Where I part company with Jacinda is the decisions she takes.
    
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    December 17, 2021 4:55pm
- Flossie
  
  Definitely a “don’t call us, we’ll call you” situation!
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:12am
- pdm
  
  BY you forgot the punchline.
  
  “Surely it is time to tell this guy. “If we need you, we will get in touch.”
  
  “But don’t hold your breath”!!!!
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:15am
  - Spoff
    
    I prefer “Please hold your breath until we do.”
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:25am
- Cinematic
  
  Baker has been crazed from the start. It was him referencing the mass graves in NY hoax in the very early days of this absurd response to the covid.
  
  Clearly this new strain is a mild cold. Following the evolution of all viruses to more contagious less harmful.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:16am
  - cmm
    
    Baker has been like this from well before CV19. CV19 just gave him opportunities to get in the limelight he’s never had before.
    
    Here he is in May 2019 trying to pump up flu fear. Apparently in NZ, over a million people get infected with flu every year of which 10,000 die. Those numbers would likely be right if you counted things the CV19 way (PCR tests etc).
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/112942493/kiwis-underestimate-the-seriousness-of-the-flu-says-public-health-professor
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:50am
    - Lummox
      
      Baker has also said ” …the coronavirus pandemic has given us the opportunity to reset in order to address inequities in society and threats posed by climate change.”
      That tells us something about his political leanings.
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:57am
- Michael Johnston
  
  As far as I can see the rational thing would be to get omicron into NZ as soon as possible. It would displace delta because it’s far more transmissible, but it’s also much less dangerous. Politically that’s impossible of course, so it won’t happen. Omicron is the beginning of the end for COVID and the political windfall it’s been for Ardern, so she’ll keep it out for as long as she can.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:23am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Fortunately a virus is going to virus and will get into the country. The sooner the better I say.
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:08am
  - mawm
    
    She’s achieved what she wants – obedience and the health pass…. except for those pesky deniers, rightwing extremists, Trump supporters, and the indolent and lazy. /s
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:36am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Yes, except those 2 groups.
      
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      December 17, 2021 7:32pm
  - Over Taxed Worker
    
    And get it in summer gives much less illness.
    
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    December 17, 2021 2:40pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pack Baker off to the UK–they are real misery guts, probably be in lock down for another 5 years.
  I feel for them as I have a daughter and grandchildren there. Boris seems to be Ardern quality.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:29am
  - smttc
    
    The motivations are different. Boris is worried about the NHS not coping with a wide outbreak of Omicron.
    
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    December 17, 2021 11:35am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      No Boris is Boris, he’s changed. UK is now Scaredom. I am seeing collapsing mental health as being the worst of the Covid visitations.
      
      4 2
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      December 17, 2021 4:43pm
- emmess
  
  At this point in the battle between the government and Omicron
  I am cheering for Omicron
  
  Go Omicron
  Go Omicron
  Go Omicron
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:46am
  - emmess
    
    More like a cold than anything else
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-most-cases-now-like-severe-cold-and-omicron-appears-to-produce-fairly-mild-illness-expert-says-12497094
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:01am
- amospicton
  
  Epidemiologists remind me of the old saying “never ask a barber if you need a haircut”.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:51am
  - pdm
    
    My father in law was a small town barber and at his funeral the long time family friend told this story:
    
    Man says to FIL – `I just want a trim today’.
    FIL replies – `whats this trim business?’
    Man – `I don’t have time to listen to a full hair cut.’
    
    Probably a true story because FIL was a non stop talker while cutting hair.
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:06am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Who is it exactly should tell Baker “if we need you we’ll get in touch”? Because the media that’s hanging on to his every word do need him, because he says exciting, headlinable things that sell papers.
  
  Just because he says it and the media report it though, doesn’t mean the Government asked him for his advice, or that they’re going to take it. For the most part, they actually haven’t.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is Baker then a domestic terrorist bringing us hate speech via the media?
    
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    December 17, 2021 4:45pm
- Mike22240
  
  For a while you were saying on this blog over the next five years we are all going to catch Covid. I have started using it in my day to day life and while it has initially pissed a lot of people off it does seem to change their minds when they stop to think about the long term plan.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:14am
- ClanMcleod
  
  BY have you ever looked at Baker’s paper on creating a “fantasy island” during a pandemic? It has been his wet dream for a very long time.
  
  https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0178732#sec016
  
  Worth studying to understand the delusions this man functions under. He is a narcissist of the highest order who’s career was grey and mundane until this moment. He is thriving on the attention and like Ardern, doesn’t want it to end.
  
  As Eugyppius says:
  
  “Corona has vastly expanded the ranks of pandemic planners and public health botherers. Unless something is done, these people will destroy all of society in their radical pursuit of a few viruses.”
  
  https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/the-pandemicists-must-be-stopped
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:35am
- smttc
  
  If you have his email address I will happily pass the message on for you.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:26am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Covid Omicron in NZ.
Lockdowns? Here we fucking go again.
I’ve got my control back you bastard peasants!
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December 17, 2021 8:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Omicron will wreck New Zealand’s traffic lights and vaccine passes.
  
  “In the population in the South African study, the Pfizer vaccine’s effectiveness against infection dropped down to about 30% for the omicron variant, compared with about 80% against the variant before omicron, the scientists reported.”
  
  https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/12/14/1063947940/vaccine-protection-vs-omicron-infection-may-drop-to-30-but-does-cut-severe-disea
  
  I mean what the hell? In practice that means that the vaccinated will be getting infected pretty much the same as the unvaccinated. How on earth will the Government be able to justify excluding the unvaccinated from many aspects of society and the economy?
  
  Is anyone with a brain going to be on hand to figure out Plan C over the Christmas break? Or are we going to have an “elimination strategy” for Omicron.
  
  This thing will end when we have all been infected by Omicron. The vaccine passes may be redundant well before the 6 months expiry date.
  
  And I am serious about the Christmas break. The PM, senior Ministers and their advisors should not be going on holiday. They need a plan. Because the current “plan” is going to be wrecked, unless we maintain a hard international border closure.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:10am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Plan? ….silly you…… LOCKDOWN so they can pass more laws we don’t know about……… sigh //
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:15am
  - Flossie
    
    If this is where we’re at i.e. Bloomfield talking potential lockdowns then how can the government shut up shop and go on holiday? Serious threat to NZ or not? Get back to work PM.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:17am
    - pdm
      
      `Get back to work PM.
      And all of Parliament – lets not have the mickey mouse way of half of them at home sitting on their hands.
      
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      December 17, 2021 8:33am
    - bronny1
      
      No. If she stays away that’s less damage she can do to NZ
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:07am
      - mawm
        
        Bronny – I agree. It’s the only way to salvage what we can of the country.
        
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        December 17, 2021 10:41am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      No no no…..it’s a tricky virus and very clever. The virus will also take a break over Christmas and New Years so that politicians can also have a holiday.
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:52am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    The only planning going on over the next month will be for Our Dear Leaders wedding, which will be closely followed by the MSM doing hard hitting stories such as “NZ Top Chef Most Likely to Make Wedding Cake” & “As a Token of Progression Helen Clark to Give the Groom Away.”
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The best plan is to do nothing at all.
    The more they attempt the greater harm they produce.
    Why have another round at economic suicide and anxiety.
    
    Omicron is regarded as mild if not insignificant. Is it real or another shot at strengthening control. It was strange that the mechanism to detect it was in place and that detective method itself has spread possibly faster than the virus. The RT-CPR method compares a fragment or sequence against the multiplied DNA under test. Where did they get the initial sequences from to discriminate one from another?
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:41am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      From he first samples analysed in which the differences where detected. Where else?
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:03pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Praying Omicron gets into NZ population ASAP, government measures at this point are no longer rational – risk to vast majority of kiwis is so small that they are effectively zero, and mitigation measures aren’t worth an iota of the dreadful cost imposed. Population is best protected it will ever be, with added benefit of summer weather and Omicron is too transmissible to control – as well as being very low risk and a better alternative to endless booster shots.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:45am
    - DeepBlue
      
      There are 15,000 vaccinators about to run out of work, if we don’t move to boosters with haste. If most are medically trained, or at minimum have a kind and caring ear, they would far better serve NZ by doing other things in the health system.
      
      Heck even catching up on missed MMR and flu vax would be better.
      
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      December 17, 2021 9:59am
  - solarsailer
    
    Think about it, a jab every three months, with all its potential for adverse harm, versus the reportedly mild symptoms of Omicron. The sad irony is there are people who’ll tell you, with a straight face, they’re happy to get multiple boosters, feel garbage each time, just to avoid Covid.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:57am
    - DeepBlue
      
      one day of work each time too
      
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      December 17, 2021 12:47pm
  - cmm
    
    It is always challenging looking at opinions coming out of South Africa.
    
    They have far bigger health worries than CV19. HIV, TB etc. CV19 has been an annoyance for most people.
    
    Most of the people in hospital WITH Omicron are there for other reasons (delivering babies, having bullet holes patched up,…) and just test positive.
    
    The main take aways from South Africa are:
    * Oxygenation is way down. Many, perhaps most, of the people receiving oxygen would be getting it for their other conditions and are only incidentally Omicron-positive.
    * ICU cases are way down. Again, many. perhaps most, of the ICU cases would be there even without the Omicron.
    * It really does not look like the vaccine is doing anything significant. The ratios of vaxxed/unvaxxed in hospital is not really any different from the general population.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:00am
  - bronny1
    
    But a quick booster will get you back to 85% apparently ?? what they don’t say is that it will only last a month or so and you’ll be back at 30.
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:06am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      They don’t say that because it is just made up.
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:06pm
  - UkiWop
    
    Sadly, rather than a plan, we will subjected to vomit inducing MSM puff pieces about her highness and little family enjoying a lovely lovely Christmas Holiday, pass the bucket quick sharp
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:23am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Wouldnt it be nice if we could go back to the original strategy from her Highness.
    Flatten the curve. Ie help reduce impact on ICUs.
    
    If they had carried on with that in pumping up ICU facilities and staff we wouldnt be in the shit hole we are now.
    
    Just a thort when nothing else will do.
    
    Have to laugh. To hell with Covid. The NZ Gummint is going on holiday.
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:48pm
  - alloytoo
    
    It will also break contact tracing at the rate it spreads.
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:59pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Cindy is pure evil. If you know downtown Auckland well, this will probably be a bit confronting. That one mad woman would strip all of our rights and do this is beyond words. And she got us to do her dirty work over vaccination passes and seperate the unclean. What an evil person.
    
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbLcnM8xdRo
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:19pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      I managed to watch about 3 mins but nothing confronting happened.
      Then I scrolled down a bit and found myself wading through a plethora of “end of the world is nigh” fruitcake material. Everything from the vaccine will kill us all to the antichrist is coming. What a rabbit hole. That was confronting.
      
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      December 18, 2021 4:32am
- Weetbix3ways
  
  No lockdowns until the New Year. Even the fearful fools who live (and die) by every word out of Cindy’s mouth want to enjoy Christmas. Then presumably they’ll roll over and allow anything.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:14am
  - hullkiwi
    
    ….but Cindy can’t have a lockdown until…..well after she gets married in January, in Gisborne. With her mates Ricky, Peter Gordon, Dave Dobbyn and Ed Sherean in attendance.
    
    Then all bets are off….
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:38am
- hullkiwi
  
  Steve, some impertinent question for the Queen of Control and her lack followers.
  
  If, two shots of Pfzier:
  1. Is waning after 6 months with delta, how long will it last with 3 shots;
  2. Is no good for Omicron, but 3 shots gives 70% effectiveness – where is the evidence and field trials to prove this;
  3. How long will 3 doses be effective against Omicron, if the level of effectiveness starts at only 70% with 3 doses;
  4. Have not been administered to all Kiwis yet, how on earth is St Ash & his DHBs going to administer 3 shots without a “mother of all f***ups”!?
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    With Liebour and Jaspinda, this is not about Health. This is everything to do with socialist/commie forced control. Must keep rabbiting on with the fear porn, it is ALL they have – everything else has turned to shit.
    Divert – oh look, a squirrel over there
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:07am
Simon

Hone Harawira is upset at the police, claiming they vetted members of his iwi-led checkpoint group Tai Tokerau Border Control

Harawira said, however, “we’ve had to stand down about half of our people” from helping to provide that protection following the vetting process.
“That’s really killed us,” he told Morning Report on Wednesday

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/12/upset-hone-harawira-claims-police-vetted-iwi-led-checkpoint-group-members.html

This is a microcosm of the entire nutjob response to the corona. They should be happy as they got what they wanted. Check points to “protect the borders.” Its apparently what they wanted for health reasons. Instead they are crying about not being the ones checking papers.

Authortians getting off on the corona, enforcing arbitrary half arsed measures, is the real pandemic. Got fuck all to do about health.

When head bozo Ardern opens her cake hole its about her authority not about health.
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December 17, 2021 8:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  You’re only two days late with that link Simon. It’s been discussed at length in the last two GD’s.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:16am
- Bridgenag
  
  I like the idea of passing around their identification and vac pass to everyone in the car for scrutiny. Good for goose……..
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:17am
  - alloytoo
    
    And their police clearance….
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:53am
- yossarian
  
  You must feel for the employers of these folks manning these checkpoints. I mean Xmas is the busiest time of the year, and to tell your employer that “sorry boss, I won’t be able to work for the next few weeks because I’m manning the Northland checkpoints” is quite heartless…unless????
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:54am
  - bronny1
    
    you think that lot of yobbos have jobs?
    
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    December 17, 2021 2:19pm
    - mawm
      
      I was wondering who is going to deliver their product.
      
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      December 17, 2021 3:26pm
- Nickc2
  
  I hear Twyford’s been selected for Covid duty over the politicians’ holiday period. That’ll be a hoot!
  On a more serious side, there can’t be anything left that he hasn’t already fucked up.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:08am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    He hasn’t had a shot at Christmas yet. I bet with his magic hands he can screw it up.
    
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    December 17, 2021 8:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “we’ve had to stand down about half of our people”
  Well maybe this would not happen if they were not bad bastards?
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:08am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Only half?
    
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    December 17, 2021 5:00pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/300478691/thanks-for-reading–especially-those-of-you-who-think-im-wrong

This was from yesterday so apologies if already discussed but surely $tuff is taking the piss making this guy a political reporter?
As I read down this piece of cynically, self serving, “look at me” nonsense I was wondering where it was going. Now I know – it’s going to parliament.
Mr McConnell has made no secret of his left wing, chip on shoulder, racially divisive agendas.
That $tuff think it’s a great idea for him to work for them as a political reporter speaker volumes about how they choose to spend their Labour Party funding.
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December 17, 2021 8:13am
- Cinematic
  
  I deleted the Stuff app last week and will never visit their site again. Go woke go broke.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:24am
- graham
  
  Pardon me for thinking “meh”.
  
  I stopped reading Stuff about a year ago due in part to their extreme agenda-led “reporting” – and my mental health is better for it – but from what someone posted yesterday I gather this is Glenn McConnell.
  
  When I was reading Stuff I gave him the benefit of the doubt and read maybe half a dozen of his pieces, but found it all to be much the same. It all came across as a rather unpleasant mixture of “poor me”, “you colonising bastards have ruined this country”, and a strident insistence that all Pakeha needed to learn his version of history and feel immense guilt over it so we could start making reparations. And the fact that it was written in the manner of a sullen know-it-all teenager hardly added to the overall coherence.
  
  So I stopped reading the self-pitying outrage from Mr McConnell, even before I gave up reading Stuff. Honestly, why would you bother? If I was into self-flagellation and punishing myself for wrongs that were perpetrated a hundred years or more ago, and the country has been apologising and paying for ever since, then maybe I would read his columns. But I’m afraid I’ve never been convinced by the collective guilt argument, and Mr McConnell certainly hasn’t persuaded me.
  
  If anything I feel sorry for him. Seems like he’s doomed to spend his life being utterly miserable and outraged at the supposed unfairness of it all. What a sad existence that must be.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:32am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    I had a similar reaction to 2-3 of his columns and stopped reading.
    
    His defence of Matauranga Maori is the only thing I vaguely recall. Apparently, Maori ancestors knew not to drink faeces-contaminated water because of the stinky smell, and this was Matauranga Maori. How they did coliform counts, reticulated and purified water for drinking he didn’t explain, but I expect the iwi representatives governing the three-waters bodies will be able to advise water engineers and scientists how to do their jobs properly.
    
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    December 17, 2021 1:35pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Yep, his article was so weak.
      And he equated Maori knowledge with (literal quote) “Poo is gross” and then compared that favourably some modern waste water treatment incidents – which shows how colonists need to learn from Maori.
      However, poor planning or failures of infrastructure is not a failing of science.
      Nor did the traditional Maori need to manage the in & outflow of water and sewerage for hundreds of thousands of people. They literally crapped off the side of the pa, similar to the ‘heads’ on a boat.
      There was more than one intellectual non-starter in his talking up of Maori knowledge and scoffing at science.
      Really was poor stuff, not worthy of good marks if it was a high school assignment, and certainly not an opinion piece requiring a national soap box.
      
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      December 17, 2021 2:11pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Poor old Glenn McConnell… stuck with a name from an old white male ancestor.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:28am
- Local Miller
  
  I chose not to read the linked article thanks.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:29am
Maggie Pie

“History Repeating Itself” – Justice Lang. G

Mother & Daughter team, Rickylee and Daisy Dixon, members of the ‘Black Power Sisters Rotorua Ford Block Chapter’, sentenced to a total of over 17 years jail, for what must be one of the most sustained, horrific, animalistic attacks on another female, since the arrival of Abel Tasman.

When mum stepped from the Dock, she looked at her whanau and assured them…. “Don’t worry, I’ve got this”

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1471253938112507906

(WARNING: Graphic content)
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December 17, 2021 8:22am
- hullkiwi
  
  And there were are Kiwi brethren in Sydney getting upset about a local comedian on 2GB using the words pub, knocked out and Maoris in the same line.
  
  Who would have thought?
  
  I am all for communities owning there problems, but when are people going to get real about the social issues in Maori communities rather than giving in to goons like Hone and John Tamihere?
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:31am
- I remember when
  
  The gradual rise of physical violence by Polynesian females has largely remained ‘out of sight.’
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:38am
- ByGolly
  
  Firing squad.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:13am
- Letterman
  
  You can’t rehabilitate feral.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:28am
- Local Miller
  
  Seems like they got of lightly. And then they’ll only actually sit about 1/3 of their time.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:37am
Rusty

There was a interesting item on Aust sky news last night.
It featured a story from an American newspaper journo who suggested people should have a different “mindset” towards covid.

What I think he was saying people should empty out of their minds all the negativity govts/health officials are feeding the public’s minds on covid.

I would say most people on this blog have already done that and maybe many other Nzers as well.

Get on with life and don’t let the doom and gloom propaganda get to you.
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December 17, 2021 8:24am
- Tom Hunter
  
  It’s the NYT and the reason for that report, plus other similar ones that have appeared in recent days, is that the Democrats have finally realised that all the mandate shit is hurting them badly even in Deep Blue enclaves.
  
  It’s a big part of the reason why they lost in Virginia and almost lost in New Jersey. The governor there recently gave an interview about his shockingly close win and he made no bones about understanding that people are sick of all the Chinese Xi Snot restrictions, so he at least is getting the message. I can only assume the NYT and others have also.
  
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  December 17, 2021 12:30pm
I remember when

For ‘science that is settled’, there still seems to be considerable debate about the timing for booster doses.
Lots of expert opinion, not a lot of science-backed advice.
I notice the early high 90’s effectiveness advice during the push for vaccination cover has dropped to 80% for booster doses.
At that rate in five years time will we be down to the cocktail of vitamin D, C, aspirin and dare we suggest it Ivermectin.
It will be interesting to do a cost analysis of the amount pharma giants have made during the period.
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December 17, 2021 8:33am
Ruahine

The new improved Omicron virus has arrived in New Zealand. Expect an announcement of a mysterious breakout of the virus from MIQ around about the middle of January 2022.
Expect a ‘short sharp’ period of another lockdown to be announced by New Zealands eminent medical expert Jacinda Ardern.
Hang on Hone help is on the way.
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December 17, 2021 8:34am
Bridgenag

SENT TO ME

Megan Woods announced a $6m deal to build 400 new homes in Porirua with Maori and Pasifika having priority.
Not only that, but the deal was signed between the Porirua City Council, Kainga Ora and Ngati Toa, ( Te Rauparaha’s mob).
“Ngati Toa chiefs (Rangatira) view this development as critical to supporting and realising the housing strategy for their tribe (iwi) “ said Megan Woods.
I am quite sure that they will be delighted to get their hands on $6,100,000 !
Will they be audited ? Will we hear if any of the $6.1m goes astray ?

But wait, there’s more.
The Government is also committing $17m to an investment fund intent on “maintaining an indigenous focus and indigenous-led investments”.
For ‘indigenous’ read ‘Maori’.

Have you noticed how we now speak of indigenous or tangata whenua when we really mean Maori ?
Could it be that Ardern’s spin-doctors are deliberately diluting the constant reference to Maori when announcing handouts ?
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December 17, 2021 8:39am
- bronny1
  
  will this indigenous focus mean flax huts with mud floors? Certainly no granite benchtops and running water then?
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:22pm
I remember when

London school:
Lead in their end-of-year play goes down with covid.
Replacement steps in and the play goes ahead.
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December 17, 2021 8:41am
graham

I never get tired of seeing Cactus Kate point out the absolute hypocrisy of this Government.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/12/and-just-like-that-real-kiri-allan.html

Referring to Kiri Allan’s appalling nastiness in yelling at Christopher Luxon, “how many people do you want to kill mate?” after Mr Luxon raised the question of YET MORE businesses going under, Cactus Kate points out the there have been around 45,000 less breast screens performed in the two-year period to September 2021 than the two-year period ending September 2019. All because of Labour’s lockdowns and refusal to allow medical screenings.

The Breast Cancer Foundation has already warned that more than 133 New Zealand women could die of a breast cancer they didn’t know they had unless the Government took urgent action.

As Cactus Kate says, in response to Kiri Allan’s “how many people do you want to kill mate?”, maybe the National Party should have responded with:

“How many people with undetected cancers have you already killed?”
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December 17, 2021 8:44am
- Flossie
  
  I would have thought Kiri Allen would have been very pro cancer detections being available after her recent illness.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:45am
- hullkiwi
  
  Not least the circa 700 suicides that there have been in NZ since the start of the first lockdown in 2020.
  
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  December 17, 2021 12:14pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    there were 600ish in 2018, so not sure it is significant
    
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    December 17, 2021 3:29pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Burn!
  
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  December 17, 2021 5:02pm
Yvette

Government Covid Response Royal Commission inquiry?
Yesterday morning, kiwiblog, it was suggested a Royal Inquiry should be held into all aspects of the Ardern-Lead Government response to the covid pandemic.
Example 1 of screw ups was the two months Police and iwi negotiated and planned (and media fore-shadowed) Border Check Points – to apply rules to exiting Aucklanders, when iwi volunteers had not apply appropriate rules to themselves – and began being vetted by the police 59 minutes from the deadline of Auckland “opening up”.

Example 2 lies in the now widely reported waining in efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine the Government chose to vaccinate those eligible and consenting, nation-wide.

Background –
◼ US researchers on Friday reported protection against Delta from mRNA-based vaccines starts to wane as early as three months after the second dose, the decline accelerating after four.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787183?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamanetworkopen.2021.38975
◼ And an Israeli study published earlier this week found by six months, protection against Omicron was basically gone.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-booster-shots-are-effective-against-omicron-variant-israeli-study-says-11639317136 – pay-walled
◼ And new data out of Australia – where daily case numbers are rapidly increasing – suggests antibodies from vaccination are between two and 20 times weaker against Omicron than previous strains of COVID-19, resulting in a drop in protection against symptomatic infection to 40 percent, and against severe disease to 80 percent (down from the mid-90s).
https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/news-briefing-first-aussie-data-on-omicron-shows-why-boosters-are-key/multimedia/Omicron-vaccine-efficacy-metaanalysis_MedRxiv-preprint-paper.pdf also hard to access

Matters that may need a little investigation –
1 – Offering all those eligible, Vaccine Passes with Expiry Dates relating to their arbitrary download date from the Internet, rather than any useful medical correlation with the date of the 2nd injection.

2 –The Government announced in November that from January 17, fully vaccinated Kiwis – that is, double-dosed – will be able to come home from Australia without having to go into managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ). From February 13, they’ll be able to arrive from anywhere without MIQ
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/12/coronavirus-expert-calls-for-border-reopening-to-be-postponed-fully-vaccinated-to-be-redefined.html

3 – “In an ongoing evolutionary twist, there are two distinct lineages of Omicron,” said Mike Bunce, genomics expert at the Institute of Environmental Science and Research.
BA.1 can be identified via a simple PCR test, which BA.2 can’t.
“BA.2 might be flying under the radar,” said Dr Bunce, urging officials to exercise caution when deciding to loosen restrictions.
“Even if Omicron (or another variant) result in half the hospitalisation rate, twice as many infections will place the same net demand on the hospital system.”
also: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/12/coronavirus-expert-calls-for-border-reopening-to-be-postponed-fully-vaccinated-to-be-redefined.html

Ardern’s Government has already, and still is, perpetrated 1, so, how will they do on 2 and 3?
When they can’t even organise a fucking Border Check Point legally?
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December 17, 2021 8:45am
Maggy Wassilieff

What is it with our Lazy Labour MPs?

Andrew Little didn’t know why Mental Health money hadn’t been spent.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mental-health-minister-andrew-little-extraordinarily-frustrated-with-slow-spend-on-19b-package-from-2019-budget/OG62VGSHJJHGRLF3SHPKM5HBJU/

Carmel Sepuloni says she didn’t know her Ministry was blowing taxpayers’ $$$ for overpriced, unsuitable emergency housing.

“I’m amazed she [Sepuloni] didn’t know that [private rentals were being used], I would think that any initiative to address homelessness would’ve been discussed with senior executives.”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/457953/christopher-luxon-calls-for-accountability-over-37m-on-inflated-rentals-for-emergency-accommodation

and now Kelvin Davis doesn’t know why money allocated to Oranga Tamariki for victims of sexual violence hasn’t been used…and doesn’t know if it will be used.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018824923/oranga-tamariki-underspent-funding-meant-to-protect-and-help-child-victims-of-sexual-violence
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December 17, 2021 8:45am
- pdm
  
  A work ethic is not part of their DNA Maggy.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:53am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Not just a work ethic, what about:
    1. Knowing the full remit of one’s portfolio responsibilities; and
    2. Asking the hard questions of the bureaucrats responsible to them.
    
    ….and for those that have forgotten, “Yes Minister” and “Yes Prime Minister”, were documentaries about how government operates in London & Wellington, and not a comedy show like the rest of us thought.
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:20pm
- Local Miller
  
  All just more of the same, useless Liebour ministers.
  
  Something about talent and puddles in a carpark on a hot summer day.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:52am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If the minister is so useless that they do not know what is going on, then maybe they should resign and let someone take over who actually can do the job.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:57am
  - hullkiwi
    
    In my recollection, I’ve only ever seen that happen once. It was was the Hon Estelle Morris, who resigned as Education Secretary in the UK under Tony Blair. She admitted publicly, she was not qualified for the role and would not be able to fulfil her responsibilities and promptly resigned from cabinet.
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:24pm
Maggie Pie

Why don’t they just make the vaccine contagious?
Problem solved.
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December 17, 2021 8:49am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Omicron is basically a contagious vaccine that will displace more lethal variants and kill far fewer people.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:59am
- mawm
  
  It might just be….
  
  Analysis of all cause mortality has thrown up some interesting things. Firstly, after subtracting covid deaths from all cause mortality it appears that there is a significant peak in deaths in the first 2 weeks for those getting their first dose. BTW these are classified as unvaccinated deaths! But surprisingly there is also a small increase in deaths in those 2 weeks amongst the close contacts of people getting vaccinated. Pfizer has acknowledged that vaccinated people shed the “spike”.
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:59am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Play school TV1 breakfast. Dick Campbell has a full suit and tie on. Did not know he owned one.
Rolled up cuffs on jeans and brown shoes is the norm. Someone must have told him that he dresses like a tramp
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December 17, 2021 8:58am
- MCōs
  
  Why do you watch that programme if you loathe it so much that you can’t even write the bloke’s name detest his clothes?
  We have a limited time on this earth you know.
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Told you before, the speaker of the house insists on watching the shit.
    Keep the queen bee happy and the whole hive is happy.
    
    7 3
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    December 17, 2021 11:05am
KevO'Brien

Serious.
When our backs are turned. The USA trying to get nukes on Russian border–Russian threats of retaliation.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/12/16/cuban-missile-crisis-redux/

Paul Craig Roberts is an economist, academic and former adviser to Presidents. He has as well reasoned view as anyone.
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December 17, 2021 9:03am
alloytoo

It would appear that the protests are no longer being referred to as “Anti-Vax” but “Anti-Mandate” protests.

I’m claiming credit as I made comment by way of a question in numerous forums asking if “Vax” was Ardern’s new nickname?
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December 17, 2021 9:05am
Libertarians are right

Joy Reid accused Elon Musk of cultural appropriation for calling Elizabeth Warren “Senator Karen” yesterday. Apparently, “Karen” is a term used by Black people to describe White women they don’t like.

In case you were still under the impression that “Karen” wasn’t a racial slur.
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December 17, 2021 9:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  But Pocahontas is only 1/1024th ‘Karen’
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:08am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    This is a case of a Black African American attacking a White African American for using an anti-White American slur against a White Native American.
    
    Truly laughable.
    
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    December 17, 2021 1:42pm
emmess

Gotta love Ron Desantis
Introducing the Stop Wrongs against Our Kids and Employees Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XiOZk58QpQ
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December 17, 2021 9:10am
Yvette

While Police vetted Hone Harawira’s iwi check point volunteers, and rejected a “crippling” half of them as unsuited to purpose, legally, have Police investigated themselves in view of Police Association President Cahill’s assertion that under the Medical Order, from which emirates all that Government is currently perpetrating, the only legal road check points are those actually on the border of Auckland City?

This actually perhaps also extends to the rather vocal “anti-vaxxers” – the group so strident, they now have their own term – marching in protests to Parliament, with relatively undefined purpose. Vaccination, or not, is a personal decision and probably should be as silent for the unvaccinated as those who are indeed vaccinated, and for some reason aren’t marching on Parliament – unless incensed at perceived freedoms being lost, or the co-ertion that the entire Traffic Light System is designed to exert on the population, like those factors apparently employed (along with a copious supply and consumption of alcohol) in turning late 1930’s, early 1940s German citizens into slow-boiled Frogs.
What those who wish to protest should latch onto is specific instances of the Government and its agencies stepping beyond their own law, as suggested above.
Protesters should consult the detail of Sun Tsu.

Instead of allowing Jacinda to just say “They are not representative of New Zealand (Us)” protesters need to provoke her to more often claim “I absolutely reject that” which indicates they are getting somewhere and should continue.
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December 17, 2021 9:13am
- coge
  
  “Attack what they can’t defend”
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:06am
Tomtoddy

is it any wonder NZ is ‘deadsville’ when it comes to economic growth? It has taken 3.5 years for the Turner family to get permission to build their new HQ in the Waikato. Some 1100 new homes, new manufacturing facility and a huge boost for the region and all the Regional Council did was oppose it down to every minor detail and force the maximum time delays.

The local regulators are congratulating themselves as though they have achieved miracles. They should be ashamed of causing such grief and damage to the economy.
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December 17, 2021 9:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Maybe it’s something in the Waikato water that causes folks there to go slow…
  
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ihumatao-housing-waiting-on-kingitanga-appointments
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What has the Kingitanga got to do with the Ihumatao land steal?
    Nanaia Mahuta is getting in deeper as she is part of that family group.
    This is thumbing our noses at the rule of law.
    Luxon get out there now!
    If the Opposition don’t oppose the abuse of law, what’s left?
    
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    December 17, 2021 10:45am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Kingitanga has been tied up with land deal from the get go…allegedly to broker a settlement deal.
      
      “A Memorandum of Understanding (He Pūmautanga) has been signed by the Kīngitanga, the Crown and Auckland Council which sets out how parties will work together to decide the future of the land.
      
      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/agreement-reached-future-ihum%C4%81tao
      
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      December 17, 2021 11:11am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        That was a Police matter. Activists camped out instead of being shifted. They were rewarded not imprisoned. The registered land title was treated as a nullity putting all other such land titles in NZ in jeopardy.
        
        That should have been sufficient to sack the govt.
        Without law we are just a bunch of Southern Anarchists.
        
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        December 17, 2021 5:02pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        ‘Tied up’ = clip the ticket
        
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        December 17, 2021 5:05pm
bronny1

I wonder how many businesses have twigged to this: if you are not forced to mandate workers such as in border control or health, but you decide to do so, then YOU are liable for vaccine injuries.

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/12/15/the-magic-bullet-is-clause-9/
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December 17, 2021 9:19am
I remember when

What a nasty, opinionated, mean-spirited piece of reporting by Jenna Lynch of TV3 Newshub last night.
Apparently none of the 2000 people who marched on Parliament yesterday, braving a dark and rainy Wellington day (AAP), knew all the MPs had gone home.
That showed how stupid and unthinking they were according to the article.
AAP stated they signed off with chants of “ho,ho,ho, Jacinda must go,” but that, of course, wasn’t shown.
Incidentally, Parliament TV programmed ‘Question Time’ yesterday, so perhaps the MPs not being there wasn’t set in stone.
Never mind, Jenna knew that none of the 2000 crowd were of sufficient importance, to TV3’s viewing figures, for her miss the chance to ridicule them.
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December 17, 2021 9:25am
- Yabster
  
  thought the same- Toxic 2.0….
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:41am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

I got it the moment I saw it. LOL!!!!

https://twitter.com/EerjkMcRaeOF/status/1471263619430043648

😀 😀 😀
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December 17, 2021 9:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe someone will explain it to Jaspinda? Lefties have no sense of humour
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:12am
Lee C

Covid is a pharmaceutical-industry generated money-making scam.
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December 17, 2021 9:30am
- Yvette
  
  Lee C
  Perpetual motion, the action of a device that, once set in motion, would continue in motion forever, with no additional energy required to maintain it. Such devices are impossible on grounds stated by the first and second laws of thermodynamics – Britannica
  
  … “laws of thermodynamics”? But not “principles [or lack of] in pharmaceuticals” –
  Pfizer (fizzer) vaccine and boosters have cracked it.
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:19am
- quarterpack
  
  Thanks for clearing that up for us all
  
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  December 17, 2021 10:26am
BarryB

Earlier this week in a column by Chris Trotter he was commenting on the rise of group identity and the growing belief among many that the most useful method of identity was skin colour – an alternative to ethnicity.
The two most common recent examples of this are the BLM movement and the oft used expletive ‘White Supremacy’ which has been used mostly as a method to shut people up.
Here in New Zealand we have the almost hourly hand wringing wail on RNZ and TVNZ of Maori and Pacifica disadvantage.

So lets apply this new identifying system to Covid Vaccinations. Its unquestionable that vaccination against disease is a very good thing. Polio, TB, Smallpox, Measles, Rubella, Mumps and chickenpox are just some of the diseases that have either been eliminated or brought under control by the use of vaccines. Although there are some differences it seems a good idea to take advantage of the Covid vaccines. So lets look at how the vaccine was used by the various groups by the new identifying method of skin colour/ ethnicity.

At the top of the list are Asians (a rather amorphous group but it is the name used in all releases of information) who won the race to 90%.
Just behind them were Whites (not identified as such – but they are the default group) and older Maori. These two were only a few percentage points behind Asians.
The next group are the Pacifica – again a name with the wide range that Asian has – but that’s how they are identified. This group were up to 20% points slower than the Asians.
And finally we have young Maori who seem to be around 40% behind the Asians.

So why the differences. The common exclamation by Government and social commentators is that racism and institutional bias and unconscious racism etc, etc is the reason why Maori youth and Pacifica are so slow at taking advantage. But the group most often confronting racism are actually the Asians. Ask any Asian and they will tell you that it’s a daily occurrence – so I don’t swallow the Racism claim. Further if racism had any influence then it should have more influence on older Maori – but it hasn’t.
Another reason is lack of education. The Measles epidemic recently exposed the lack of education among Pacifica where belief in some plant leaves was better than a vaccine.
There is no doubt that belief in education is very strong among Asians and Whites but is seen as less important among Pacifica and Maori youth – the school attendance figures are irrefutable evidence of this. There are 10,000 school aged children – almost all Pacifica and Maori – who are not registered at any school.
Another – and more believable reason – is that Pacifica and Maori have been badly treated by Maori leaders and some social commentators. These people have been telling Pacifica and Maori for the last 40 years that they are disadvantaged and that they cannot achieve very much unless they have some sort of support – and even then they are still behind the game. The commentators offer plenty of reasons – none of which can be overcome. If a particular group is constantly told that they are hopeless then a self belief that you cannot achieve could well become ingrained.

The only other possibility involves exploring the implications of eugenics.
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December 17, 2021 9:53am
Yvette

3 Waters
So the Government had already decided the reforms would be compulsory, not opt in. Yet it went through months of stringing local councils along, saying it hadn’t yet decided. – Kiwiblog host David Farrar

Government also spent a reported $3.5 million falsely advertising “3 Waters” but now promotes on radio the deadline for Auckland City citizen submissions on the issue (perhaps under some legal provision that they should), however says something like “Government is to establish entities to look after water” without mentioning “3 Waters” in the announcement – on radio Magic Talk.

So $3.5 million “blown out of the water” or “down the drain” or “gone under the bridge” – and we have had more than forty days and nights of it …
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December 17, 2021 10:08am
Diogenes

Is the new government policy permitting unconsented high-density housing going to throw a big spanner in the works of the government push towards electric vehicles?
The kicker is in the trend towards building high-density dwellings without adequate garages or parking spaces. This is happening a lot in Christchurch now.
So, let’s say we have 8-9 individuals or families living in one set of units. For the most part, the occupants of each unit own at least one car. Q: Without a garage, where do they park? A: Up and down the street. Q: And if they have an electric vehicle that they want to charge overnight, how do they achieve that?
The answer for one Christchurch resident at least (sighted by a friend of mine), is to run a power cable from the house out to the car parked on the street. Admittedly it was in a more rural portion of the city. But I can’t begin to imagine how many hazards that presents!
I am sure some far more technologically equipped person can enlighten me as to the alternatives for charging an EV overnight at home under this scenario, so I will be delighted to hear them.
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December 17, 2021 10:11am
- rockape
  
  A diesel generator in the boot with a snorkel for exhaust and air intake.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:03am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  ~~filthy peasants~~ general public shouldn’t own cars, they should be reserved for quality people who work in government and regulatory bodies.
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:18pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    That’s the truth. EVs for everyone is pure fantasy. The plan is that the plebs can catch the bus, bike or walk. It’s all about providing choices.
    
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    December 17, 2021 3:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Smaller devices are being charged by radio. Upscale and you could create a human walk-through toaster. field.
  
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  December 17, 2021 5:09pm
BananaLlama

Honestly National need to fire Matthew Hooton. Here is the headline that the NZ Herald decided to run with thanks to him.

#OPINION It is no longer embarrassing for people to say they still support National. Nevertheless, the first poll numbers since Luxon took the job suggest he is hardly a John Key, let alone a Jacinda Ardern, when it comes to encapsulating and personifying the public mood.

If you are paying Hooton to run publicity on your behalf he does a terrible job, i have farmed thousands of likes on facebook running counter narratives against Labours shills in the media when Luxon was given the job and i don’t even intend to vote for him. Hooton who is suppose to be your guy just blows holes in the side of your ship trying to sink it.
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December 17, 2021 10:16am
- nathie
  
  Yep Hooten and Slater, keep scoring “own goals”, but run around like champions awaiting acclaim totally oblivious to the carnage they cause!
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Hooten has nothing to do with National in any official capacity. I suspect today’s piece is more than anything else because Luxon is bleeding support away from Hooten’s beloved Act, and not Labour. That, of course, will come in the New Year as voters see the contrast between an articulate leader whose worldview has not been tarnished by politics and the obfuscation, aversion to the truth and the word salad offereings of the current PM.
  
  BTW, Luxon was outstanding in the hour he spent with Kerre Woodham on Newstalk ZB this morning.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:41am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Hooten has nothing to do with National in any official capacity.
    
    You’re having a laugh.
    
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    December 17, 2021 11:44am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Wasn’t Hooten involved in the Muller coup?
    
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    December 17, 2021 1:54pm
KevO'Brien

See my comment on the following post about public health academic says NZ should never ever go to green.
The CDC have been caught without the Covid virus-influenza instead.
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December 17, 2021 10:49am
Maggie Pie

Unfortunately I missed Luxo being interviewed by Kerre Woodham this morning.
My partner’s mum just phoned to say she found it very enlightening and thort Chris came across as a breath of fresh air and very ‘Priministerial’
She said the best thing to come out of it was hearing him say National will not be making Te Reo compulsory in schools.

Although no mention of ‘Fresh Choice Supermarkets’ apparently.
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December 17, 2021 11:20am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Luxon was very good Maggie. Labour should be very afraid.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:42am
Paulus

Am still intrigued why Mallard gave Tova such a glowing valedictory the other day in Parliament
Never heard of such before !
Can we assume that they had a relationship – proper of course, in that Tova got much of her inside information from him ?
Will that mean that she will not have direct contact anymore with him ?
Or !
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December 17, 2021 11:25am
- Tony Stuart
  
  From memory, O’Brien was one of the journos to whom Mallard leaked the “silly little girl” smear; remember, the comment that only the self-confessed hard-of-hearing Mallard supposedly heard.
  
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  December 17, 2021 11:46am
  - Jack5
    
    Then there’s little love-fest between Ardern and her reporters, O’Brien and Mutch McKay:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/jessica-then-tova-jacinda-ardern-grills-reporters-in-reverse-press-conference-on-the-hits-with-jono-and-ben/BNT2EH6PIBATPG62EFKZRGK3K4/
    
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    December 17, 2021 12:00pm
- Nickc2
  
  Lets go with the Or . . . . .
  
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  December 17, 2021 12:14pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  If I remember correctly, it was Vance that Mallard went biking with (and whose name was kept out of the papers when they were in an accident).
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:44pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMPFfTYGEr4

Germany’s New Israel policy is here.

Germany’s Social Democrats (SPD), Green Party (Greens) and Liberal Democrats (FDP) have entered into a coalition government. The three parties recently presented their long-awaited agreement. [4:34]
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December 17, 2021 11:27am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/lha4ahcLUhI/

Logic 1 ‘Women in Sensible Shoes’ 0.

Watch assorted ‘feminists’ lose out to logic, and reason. [12:55]
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December 17, 2021 11:27am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY5aZnicL_o

China was betting on Europe in the post pandemic era, it got a rude shock.

If developments occurred over the past two weeks are any indication, the fate of the EU-China relations looks extremely shaky now. Watch the video, to know more. [5:34]
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December 17, 2021 11:28am
graham

So I read in the Herald that some of Auckland Council’s websites and networks are down this morning following an upgrade to the council’s security systems.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-council-it-networks-down-following-security-upgrade/PRQRQSPGFQAGBY33TV6SIOUIIE/

Unfortunate, but these things happen. But here’s the problem:

ICT director Mark Denvir said some websites are affected, which means services cannot be completed online at the moment, but people can use alternative in-person facilities at service centres and over the phone.

“We have business continuity systems in place for situations like this. We hope to have everything resolved soon,” he said.

“… people can use alternative in-person facilities at service centres …” Umm, not if you’re unvaccinated. Aren’t the unvaccinated barred from all of Auckland Council’s premises?

I wonder if Auckland Council’s BCPs include facilities for the unvaccinated?
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December 17, 2021 11:54am
Nickc2

Well done Luxon

I just heard Luxon announce on ZB that NZers are one people. Thank fuck someone’s prepared to take a stand against all this He Puapua crap.
He’s gone up in my esteem. I’ve bad-mouthed him in the past.
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December 17, 2021 12:09pm
- Cassandra
  
  Jury still out but this might be a good start.
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:32pm
- septic skeptic
  
  We can hope. But John Key made the right noises to quieten the horses as he led them slowly down the same old path.
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:59pm
Stu2

The growth in case numbers in NSW is astonishing.

Yesterday 2,213
Wed 1,738
Tues 1,347
Mon 795
Sun 529
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December 17, 2021 12:15pm
- Stu2
  
  Those are daily case numbers BTW. They were down to 300-400 a day so even 529 looked unusual, and then it took off.
  
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  December 17, 2021 12:26pm
- bronny1
  
  Go Omicron!
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:29pm
- mawm
  
  They should stop testing. Period.
  
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  December 17, 2021 3:42pm
  - Stu2
    
    The hospitalisations are up, so they probably want an idea of where the cases are going so they can predict demand for beds.
    
    And decide if they can cope, or if they need to start thinking about doing something.
    
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    December 17, 2021 5:49pm
Fletch

Just heard a snippet of Jacinda on the radio. She is all-in on the vaccination of kids, and says that the 90% vaccinated we have now is only 90% of those eligible for the shot (which is only 72% of the country in total) and doesn’t include kids.
I don’t think they have any idea what they are doing or the destruction. I think it will be so bad that after it’s all over she won’t be able to remain in New Zealand.
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December 17, 2021 12:41pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  How is Ardern going to be held responsible if the vaccine damages future generation?
  
  This is much more than vaccine numbers. No govt or vaccine supplier is accepting any liability for their actions so their conduct is protected from questioning. They are prepared to throw this generation of children under a bus for their ego trips?
  
  Isn’t there a duty of care? <b<First do no harm
  
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  December 17, 2021 5:18pm
Maggie Pie

Sitting here scoffing a Countdown cream & jam donut and thinking to myself…. what would be the male equivalent of “Karen” ?
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December 17, 2021 1:02pm
- Fletch
  
  Gotta be Trevor.
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:09pm
- Jack5
  
  “Karen” seems to be a Woke slur, so let’s return the favour and wreck a name popular with the Wokies.
  
  How about Liam?
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:12pm
- TT500
  
  Comm’on Maggie you know its Nigel
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:40pm
- trout
  
  ‘Brucie’
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:40pm
- mandk
  
  Tamati
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:49pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Didn’t we settle on Brandon?
  
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  December 17, 2021 6:37pm
Fletch

It looks like PB Tech have backtracked on their requiring customers to be vaxxed to shop instore. Well done!
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December 17, 2021 1:03pm
- Batman
  
  Whatever happened to property rights of a private business and the ability to refuse service eh?
  
  Gay wedding cakes much?
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:35pm
  - Fletch
    
    Fair enough. But I don’t believe it is business exercising their autonomy. The govt is forcing business to make these so-called decisions through draconian mandates.
    
    If it were up to businesses themselves, and they weren’t being coerced by govt, I bet they’d chuck the whole thing and not refuse anyone.
    
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    December 17, 2021 3:07pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Conflating two things.
    If PB Tech changed their mind on this, then how does it work against the property rights of private business?
    I think we applaud the correct decision, and not deplore the fact they can make the decision itself.
    
    In fact, that’s where ACT drew the line at mandates; that businesses can choose to mandate, but they don’t HAVE to mandate (in listening to Seymour speaking to Lloyd Burr some weeks back).
    Still personal responsibility and liberty in principle.
    Businesses get to lie in the bed they make for themselves.
    
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    December 17, 2021 3:11pm
- mawm
  
  Too late. They’ve shown their hand.
  
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  December 17, 2021 3:43pm
- Diogenes
  
  I shopped at PB Tech this week, and was not asked for a cert.
  
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  December 17, 2021 5:39pm
Jack5

Wired Magazine in an article describes smart phones as a “new tax on the poor”.

Julia Ticona writes:

“…connectivity to the internet is increasingly required to manage many different types of jobs in parts of low-wage labor markets far beyond “gig economy” apps like Uber …”

Internet type connectivity has become increasingly mandatory for low-wage workers, writes Ticona, and for many the smart phone is their only internet link.

She says that in low-wage households, the “connectivity” cost amounts to more than half of what they spend on electricity.

I guess Covid-19 containment strategies such as that of New Zealand are helping make smart phones mandatory here.

Some of us, however, hold out with throw-away burners, limited to text and voice calls.
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December 17, 2021 1:08pm
Yvette

Tamaki
Human Rights Commissioner met with Brian Tamaki ahead of anti-vaccine mandate protest

The Human Rights Commissioner met with Brian Tamaki this week ahead of a protest against vaccine mandates and COVID-19 restrictions outside Parliament organised by a group founded by the Destiny Church leader.

The meeting was held virtually on Tuesday morning with Hunt and two commission staffers attending along with three members of the Freedom and Rights Coalition (FRC), which was founded by Tamaki. Newshub can confirm one of those attendees was the controversial pastor, who is currently facing charges in relation to his role in attending and organising protests in violation of COVID-19 restrictions.

After his first charge, he was granted bail on the condition he didn’t attend or organise any gathering in breach of the requirements. On subsequent appearances after going to the Auckland Domain while rallies were being held, he denied breaching his bail.

He was given bail at a court appearance on November 23 on the condition he does not visit the Auckland Domain and does not organise, attend, support or speak at any protest gathering in breach of any current COVID-19 alert level requirements. He must also observe all and any requirements and should not use the internet to encourage non-compliance. He challenged this on Friday.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/12/human-rights-commissioner-met-with-brian-tamaki-ahead-of-anti-vaccine-mandate-protest.html

Has Brian Ramaki in fact breached his bail conditions again?

And further, has he displayed the intent to do so? –
The FRC founder had to watch the “fantastic” protest virtually on Thursday. He told Newshub he set off to travel to Wellington on Wednesday and got as far as Levin when his lawyer advised him he should turn around.

And does Tamaki have a vaccination pass or some other document to leave Auckland?
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December 17, 2021 1:26pm
Chuck Bird

This video of Christopher Luxon is worth watching if you did not hear it earlier.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/kerre-mcivor-mornings/video/watch-as-national-leader-christopher-luxon-joins-kerre-mcivor-mornings/
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December 17, 2021 1:35pm
- mandk
  
  Another excellent interview by Luxon.
  
  It’s refreshing to hear a straight-talking politician.
  
  Everything the Unholy Trinity (Ardern, Robertson and Hipkins) utters is word soup.
  
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  December 17, 2021 1:47pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Thanks for posting Chucky.
  Met Kerre when she was MC at a fundraiser we attended about 4 or 5 years ago. Looks to have put on a bit of beef since then.
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:02pm
- Fletch
  
  Interesting. But he still places an emphasis on vaccination. Like the govt, he seems to believe it is the answer. I don’t believe it is. I don’t believe it would have made a difference if the govt had started vaccinating earlier and got to their arbitrary percentage of 90% faster. It’s not the silver bullet these govt types, including Luxon, think it is.
  
  I want to see a deemphasis on vaccines. They have a place, but they aren’t going to fix the problem. I want to see more action on treatment and therapeutics, which are being ignored. A campaign to educate kiwis on what they can do themselves as far as vitamins, zinc, healthy living etc. We only have to look at places overseas like Gibraltar, Portugal and Singapore to know that a completely double vaxxed population won’t stop people getting infected.
  
  Just look at the Taylor Swift tribute show in Sydney last week. Six hundred people attended (and I bet they were all doubled vaxxed) which turned into a super spreader event with 97 people contracting Covid. It doesn’t matter how vaxxed you are.
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/12/16/97-people-catch-covid-at-taylor-swift-themed-party-in-sydney/
  
  Let’s get away from this vaxxed/unvaxxed paradigm as though those are the only two options.
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:41pm
Leofric

Is it any wonder that many of us can no longer stand what the mainstream media has become? I just about fucking vomited.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2021/12/jacinda-ardern-turns-tables-on-tova-o-brien-jessica-mutch-mckay-in-jono-and-ben-christmas-special.html
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December 17, 2021 2:02pm
- septic skeptic
  
  There is no reason why any of this shit should qualify for taxpayer funding.
  
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  December 17, 2021 2:53pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  And yet she does not have time to go on Newstalk ZB and answer any serious questions.
  I guess this shows us that Jono and Ben are pretty much at the upper limit of her capacity.
  
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  December 17, 2021 4:14pm
- Inandout
  
  Does she not as a mother feel concerned at these increasingly common deaths?
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/11/two-year-old-who-died-from-critical-injuries-in-starship-hospital-remembered-as-extremely-loved-little-girl.html
  
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  December 17, 2021 5:10pm
Nickc2

When will it all stop?

Minister for Housing gifts more money to Maori to build houses for themselves.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/m%C4%81ori-trusts-receive-funding-to-provide-whare-for-wh%C4%81nau/ar-AARRLzO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Why just Maori?
Oh, silly me, I should have realised, it’s just vote-buying, isn’t it?
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December 17, 2021 2:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They are us, but we are not them. Pay up colonialist
  
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  December 17, 2021 3:04pm
Reid

COVID VAX VARIABILITY BETWEEN LOTS – INDEPENDENT RESEARCH BY INTERNATIONAL TEAM

Scientists compared variability between Flu vaccine lots with variability between Covid vaccine lots, and were shocked to find EXCESSIVE and HIGHLY UNUSUAL degree of variation between different lots of the Covid vaccines.

When 22,000 flu vaccine lots were examined, almost all of them produced 5 or fewer severe adverse reactions per lot. Only 2 lots exceeded this (22 SAEs and 37 SAEs)

When the same number of Covid vaccines were compared, there was found to be huge variation – with many lots producing 5 or fewer severe adverse reactions , but many others producing 1000-5000 severe adverse reactions.

In other words, Covid vaccines vary 10 times more than flu vaccines.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/4HlIyBmOEJeY/
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December 17, 2021 2:47pm
- Reid
  
  To the downticker I’m genuinely interested in your reasons.
  
  Care to explain?
  
  Genuinely interested.
  
  Data isn’t subject to emotion.
  
  It’s just data.
  
  And this particular data is absolutely unequivocal, isn’t it?
  
  Stats when properly gathered and interpreted don’t, of course, lie, they inform, and if you don’t like what it says, it’s not relevant.
  
  So just curious as to the nature of your objection is all and hoping for a detailed explication of your reasoning so I may educate myself.
  
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  December 17, 2021 4:27pm
Its only I

I see stuffED are only opening comment sections under articles if someone from National is commenting about the gov. leading to a massive flood of cut’n’paste Labour trolls controlling the conversation…again. Notice how often they get a post past the mods compared with any other.

They are fairly successful at seeding negative conversations around opposition parties.

When Labour were caught importing all those overseas kids and housing them in substandard conditions (while the Labour media teams were pushing the homelessness stories) I guess not all of them were given the free ticket home. It seems a few were retained to manage the social media troll farm they were imported for.

I became a little suspicious when some of the more prolific handles on stuff comments working it today hinted at what Jami-Lee Ross was about to d0 a couple of days before the media frenzy broke. They seemed to have had a bit too much detail in their comments for it to be a coincidence
I want it so be a coincidence though because anything else seems a bit dark.
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December 17, 2021 6:18pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Stuff are 5th column, not 4th estate.
  
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  December 17, 2021 8:29pm
Maggie Pie

Hope ‘Milkey & Mike’ are OK?

Nothing heard all day.

C’mon guys….you don’t need to log-in just to downtick!

😀
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December 17, 2021 7:25pm
- H. Upmann
  
  John Pakes has been on duty today for the loony left. Refer the Goff post late afternoon.
  
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  December 17, 2021 9:18pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wonder if he caught my earlier post about those gals from FORDLANDS?
    
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    December 17, 2021 9:59pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Oh those Fordland girls!
      Yes, that would have him filling his nappys and Milkey & Mike too, especially when they realised that;
      a- the said girls were not interested in a hug to cure their problems
      b- the said girls girls rushed off the the nearest bottlestore with the downpour of Labour donated loot they were suddenly blessed with to buy a carton or three of Woodstock and a few Lion Reds for the boys. There may have been a little change left over for “some other stuff”.
      
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      December 17, 2021 10:31pm

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