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February 17, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 February 2022

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General Debate

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Warren

Labour again lead with their mouth instead of their brain which will push many on the minimum wage near middle tax bracket.
So was the minimum wage increase a chance for the Treasurer to increase the tax take over the next four years by $48 billion which would amount to the largest tax take in History.
GDP is going up by $78.5 billion the tax take is swooping up 62% in on the increase in GDP, people working a 44 hour a week move into th 30% tax bracket many minimum wage workers as a result of the Government’s kindness will be worse off.
Our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson are more interested in making out they are the leaders in doing what’s best for the economy and portraying to the world how good and kind we are to those on the minimum wage but when you get down to the facts it all about the tax take and how to con hard working New Zealander’s.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300519291/minimum-wage-workers-pushed-near-middle-tax-bracket
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February 17, 2022 8:00am
- Yabster
  
  From the Taxpayers Union:
  
  Minimum wage and paying 30% in marginal tax ?
  High income taxes used to only affect high earners. But thanks to inflation, even minimum wage workers are now threatened with punishingly high tax rates
  
  After the Government’s decision to hike the minimum wage by 6%, someone working 44 hours a week on the minimum wage will now pay tax in the 30% bracket.
  
  In fact, in real terms workers on the minimum wage may be worse off than they were last year, because inflation wipes away 98% of the value of their pay hike. The higher average tax rate wipes away the rest (and then some).
  
  While for now they’ll only have a small portion of their income in the 30% tax bracket, the real killer is how the high tax rate destroys the incentive to do better. Minimum wage workers will now have a third of the reward for upskilling, working overtime, or achieving a promotion nixed by the taxman.
  
  Bracket creep has been stealthily taking more and more from workers unchecked since tax brackets were set in 2011. If brackets had been adjusted for inflation since then, the 30% tax bracket wouldn’t kick in until $56,822.
  
  The ironic part is that while the minimum wage hike was meant to counter inflation, it will in fact feed the beast. Higher costs on employers will filter down to higher prices for consumers – which in turn means more inflation. The only winner from this dangerous spiral is Grant Robertson, who gets even more tax revenue…
  
  Speaking of Government revenues, here’s a little known fact for you: a Kiwi on the average income is now paying $2,138 more tax per year since the current Labour Government came to office. That’s after adjusting for inflation – and doesn’t account for the unfunded spending/borrowing money printing.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:23am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Simon Bridges has a Member’s Bill in the ballot that would link tax threshholds to inflation, to ensure they move with the cost of living. When it does eventually get picked and debated, you can be sure that Labour will introduce Government legislation doing exactly the same thing so that Bridges doesn’t get and kudos.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:57am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Tax thresholds use to go up every year when I first started work
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:43am
- pdm
  
  So Warren my interpretation of what you say is that minimum wage workers who work long hours – say 50 to 60 – a week will move to a higher tax bracket and possibly have reduced `take home pay’?
  
  More unintended consequences from an ill prepared and incompetent government if that is correct.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:24am
  - mandk
    
    They won’t have reduced take home pay in cash terms because the higher rates of tax are only paid on marginal earnings above the threshold.
    
    However, they could be taking home less in real terms because inflation is outstripping earnings increases.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:39am
- Simon
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Did Tribe National oppose the recent minimum wage increase? Are National in on the con?
  
  The effect of the minimum wage increase all these clowns dont tell you is that it reduces the amount of social spending, such as WFF credits.
  
  Tax is only one side. The reduction in social spending is the other. That is why those tribal fools in National cant make up their minds.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:25am
  - westernScientest
    
    dont worry labour will be along shortly to hand out some more money when those people start to poll the wrong way
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:55am
    - Paulus
      
      National getting closer currently and Labour will be ovrtaken in the real polls within 4 months, by which time Cindy will be world touring and leaving the Fat Controller to tell us how wunnerful they all are.
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They said it was ridiculous at this time of the pandemic to force these hikes on small businesses
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:45am
- Philip Hart
  
  Neither the reporters or commentators understand the tax system. There is a rebate that disappears at 13cents after $44000. So your marginal rate after that is 30.5% and 30% after $48000. That’s is if you aren’t getting working for families etc. if you are, or you are getting another benefit, or paying child support then your marginal rate is at least 37.5%
  
  So 40 hours at the minimum wage and one way or another you are already paying over 30%
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:31am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Hey Philip, I think the abatement rate, above the income threshold, for Working For Families Tax Credit is 25%. It used to be 20%. If it is 25% that puts minimum earners on a marginal tax rate of 46.89% being 17.5% tax, 1.39% ACC, 3% KiwiSaver, 25% WFF Tax Credit abatement. And if they have a student loan from studying flax weaving or whatever, that marginal rate jumps to 58.89%. I think the Accommodation Supplement would also be reduced on tat sort of income, but I do not have the details.
    And don’t get me started on Child Support; incontrovertible proof that free love can be expensive.
    They don’t call it the poverty trap, for nothing.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:54am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      If Labour get in again they’ll have an additional 1.39% Unemployment Insurance tax on top of that.
      
      Related question – if you do become unemployed and claim 80% of your salary, I assume the Government taxes it *again* like they would any other income? What sort of fucked up insurance policy is that, where the insurer takes out 46.89% (per your figures) of the agreed insured value for themselves? You’d be far better off taking your 1.39% premium and buying income protection insurance on the open market.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:25pm
    - Philip Hart
      
      You’re probably right – Chuck in some ESCT tax on the employers kiwisaver contribution too
      
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      February 17, 2022 2:27pm
- I remember when
  
  Report error. Sorry.
  Another point is that the Government have now become Union representatives.
  They are setting the base wage for all workers, with no reference to indiviual industries.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:41am
- Nickc2
  
  Cindy can’t do anything about it. She didn’t learn what GDP was and how it worked when she was at school. She was too busy talking and telling others what to do and how to live.
  Such a pity she didn’t take her own advice.
  Nea mind eh bro. It’ll all change when Nania’s in power eh.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:42am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I’ve not done the calculations but I’d assume that those on the Living Wage, without any overtime at all, must be fairly close to the middle marginal tax rate.
  
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  February 17, 2022 7:12pm
Tricati

Listening to various talkback shows since the start of the protest in Wellington it amazes me how naïve some of the hosts are when people are challenging the media bias.
A good example of bias is, we are hearing of Labour MP who has been supposedly abused by protestors and her staff feel unsafe (Has she laid a complaint with the police?), and Victoria University student union leader say students feel unsafe – How convenient these people are getting media coverage, but very government aligned.
I believe the protestors discord towards the media is based on the Governments Public Interest Journalism Fund of $55 million, and the requirements to receive that funding is in essence to support the government position. That coupled with the numerous government advertising campaigns (eg: Transport changes, 3 waters, Covid), MSM companies must be raking in the cash – Right-minded people know what the pay-back expected is.
When people see the way the various opposition leaders have been interviewed verses the ‘soft’ approach taken with the PM, they feel the government is not being held to account by the 4th estate, but the opposition is. The pattern seems to be to discredit the opposition, and present glowing articles on the government, regardless of the constant failings.
This has led to a view across many New Zealander’s that we are losing a critical piece of our democracy, that is holding the government to account, and it’s very unsettling.
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February 17, 2022 8:07am
- cmm
  
  “Feeling unsafe” is only a problem because we now have a least a decade, maybe two, of pumping people with both the thought that their feelings are extremely important and neuroticism.
  
  As you say, where are the reports of actual threats? Real ones: where people have laid complaints with the police.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:19am
  - Geoff1
    
    “Labour MP who has been supposedly abused by protestors and her staff feel unsafe”.
    More accusations to denigrate the protesters
    No one from the protest has or is able to get anywhere near the building, so how did they bang on windows and be a threat to her as she is leaving at night. MPs have security everywhere if that is the case parliamentary security needs a review.
    A low tactic to roll out the pregnant MP to gain the sympathy, however, in the age of technology with cameras, CCTV and smart phones that are live streaming there is not one second of video or audio.
    Just more lies, BS and denigration with no supporting evidence.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:56am
- Cinematic
  
  I haven’t met a single person who doesn’t support the protest. Or a single person who has fallen for the Labour/msm slanted perception of the protest. They’re yelling into the wind. Amusing to watch.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:20am
  - I remember when
    
    I have been surprised by the people I have talked to who are rabidly anti the protesters.
    Older males, who while I might have expected some dissent have, in fact, been close to ‘string them up.’
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:53am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I don’t know if 61 means I’m an “older male” but I 100% support the protestors and believe they’re doing fantastic work. Plenty of Karens deliberately misinterpreting the protest though.
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:17am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      They have been spoon fed the media bias on the so called MSM.
      
      They need to change the channel and look at the real life, live feeds.
      
      People partying hard at a dance party on the front lawn of Parliament are not rioting.
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:23pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      I suggest that those anti protestors you talk to get their world view from 6pm TV News.
      
      Ask them next time how they come to their position. Where do they get their information from?
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:55pm
    - Jim
      
      Only because the MSM gaslighting. If they went to find out themselves and have a yarn, no doubt they would have a complete change of opinion.
      
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      February 17, 2022 6:31pm
  - MCōs
    
    Conversely I haven’t met a single person who supports the various occupations, so there!
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:59am
    - Matt Long
      
      Proverbs 22:33 Bad company corrupts, hang with the Karens too long and you become like them.
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:31am
  - westernScientest
    
    There are still a lot of very scared old people (and probably not old as well) out there, they literally think if they catch omicron they will die. They oppose the protest on the grounds that they think it is going to spread the plauge and kill them, in essence they think the protesters are setting out to kill them. Im not kidding, this comes from the other half who works in healthcare.
    
    A lot of peoples world views are going to come crashing down over the next few months.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:04am
    - kowtow
      
      They have been conditioned through constant fear porn by the same Media pardy who now villify the freedom festival.
      
      It is inexcusable in this day and age for mature people not to be able to think , research and form their own opinions .
      
      At the other end of the spectrum we see the same brainwashing goin’ on with the young ‘uns with climate catastrophe , gender politics and race.
      
      The media pardy have a lot to answer for.
      
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      February 17, 2022 10:41am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Well they were only reporting what they were told to report ….
        
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        February 17, 2022 1:54pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Yes that’s true, though isn’t it a remarkable coincidence that hundreds and hundreds of protestors in close proximity and invariably without masks and many unvaccinated, have neither caught nor transmitted the deadliest virus known to man?
      
      It’s almost as if the mandates are simply an exercise in control, rather than a much-needed public health measure. But that couldn’t possibly be the case, could it?
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Maybe that is why nobody in the bee’s nest will come out and talk to them – they have a disease, it is called ‘socialism’
        
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        February 17, 2022 1:59pm
      - Jim
        
        Nice point Lodden, where’s the super spreader figures?
        I would like to point out and congratulate the protesters (both on the ground and those in the background support roles) who have very much shamed both state and local governments in their ability to come together and efficiently organise a functioning society with all necessary logistics in and out of the encampment. Hell, give them another week and they might have a better bus service than Wellington Council can deliver (a low bar I know).
        
        A truly magnificent achievement that real kiwis (NZ patriots of any ethnicity) should be be wholly proud of.
        
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        February 17, 2022 4:31pm
    - backster
      
      A lot of the oldies, farmer’s wifes’, etc are terrified their grand children will succumb to it. That’s why they put Teddies in the window and vote Labour Jacinda will save them.
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:34am
      - chukar
        
        Most farmers wives I have met are not only very bright they are not scared of much.
        Bad call Backster
        
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        February 17, 2022 12:42pm
      - kowtow
        
        Why would farmers wives put teddies in windows where no one can see them .
        
        Nope the Teddy phenomenon is a city town thing in the red suburbs where tax transfers keep the wimmin and their “partners” well attached to the govt teat.
        
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        February 17, 2022 1:28pm
      - gorse
        
        Backster, I’m a farmer, BSc Chemistry, because I enjoyed it and understood it. All the farmers I know have above average IQ’s, a lot of farmers have tertiary qualifications. A lot of wives who are or were in a profession. You have listened to the Greenies and Labourites too much. They would have us as thick, straw sucking yokels.
        
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        February 17, 2022 2:45pm
      - Jim
        
        Poor judgement IMO. By example city slickers (living on 250 squares) can just watch a few episodes of Country Calendar and most likely be ashamed of the courage, intellect and ingenuity of the diverse rural sector in NZ.
        
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        February 17, 2022 4:36pm
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      It depends whether they care to investigate the statistics for themselves. If they care to – and even though they have been able to make this conclusion for months and perhaps more than a year already – they will clearly see weeks of thousands of cases a day (despite, we are told, 90% plus being “fully vaccinated,” and the existence of an exclusionary passport system) yet very few, if any, deaths, and no sign of an “overwhelmed health system”. If they don’t comprehend the reality at that point, and that they have been systematically deceived, then they never will.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:59pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Don’t know why they are worried.
      
      The protester’s will all infect each other and die, right.
      
      Problem solved.
      
      Or are unvaccinated not affected by Omicron it only infects and kills the vaccinated.
      
      Maybe they should double mask, then they can be twice as safe.
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Those scared people will die – but not from Omicrom.
      They object because of the fear porn propaganda coming from the socialist control freaks
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:53pm
- Yabster
  
  From the Taxpayers Union:
  
  Independent report slams taxpayer funding for media ?
  After the Government unveiled its infamous $55 million “Public Interest Journalism” slush fund, the Ministry for Culture and Heritage commissioned an independent report into competition and diversity in the media sector.
  
  This month, the completed report was quietly uploaded to the Ministry’s website. Its findings are remarkable.
  
  Here are some of the money quotes from Sapere Research Group, who produced the report:
  
  …given the current state of plurality and the risks associated with public funding of journalism content, we do not see a strong case for any ongoing public funding of commercial news content.
  
  …several stakeholders expressed concern that funding decisions had crossed into editorial decision-making, with New Zealand On Air effectively holding a ‘beauty contest’ to choose which proposed stories/investigations merited support.
  
  Others observed that due to the relatively limited pool of journalists in New Zealand, the PIJF was creating a ‘giant game of musical chairs’ and was leading to salary inflation rather than building new capacity.
  
  Some stakeholders also expressed reservations that public funding of media firms may make those firms beholden to the government of the day and public officials might be reluctant to fund proposals that will be critical of government policies – which would undermine a key plurality objective of the media being able to hold public institutions and elected officials accountable.
  
  Any large-scale permanent funding at a national level risks reducing the commercial opportunities available to firms to create content, risks propping up inefficient business models, and may unwittingly tilt the prospects of success/failure for businesses.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:24am
  - Random T Person
    
    I’ve worked in the press for more than 20 years. We’ve always known, even as independent journos (OK I was a reporter in the tech industry) that you could not be too harsh with the advertisers. He who pays the piper calls the tune. You do not need Sapere to tell you that!
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:58am
    - Matt Long
      
      I’m amazed Sapere challenged the Government, I guess they have sufficient resources or integrity not to care about getting work in the future.
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:39am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Off message! Off to the gulag!
    
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    February 17, 2022 7:19pm
- kowtow
  
  Last night HDPA said she was really surprised by the level of support the freedom folk had . She said something about , I think a tradie round her place ….
  ….the impression I get is these media types do live in their own little bubble . They don’t hob nob with ordinary people either socially or professionally .
  
  Thus the surprise .
  
  And yes they have been got through this two years of hell by taxpayer transfers , via the regime, so they don’t have to worry like small business owners .
  
  But in any event , generally they lean left , as we all know and their fear mongering on such a vast scale is how govts of all stripes have been able to be so draconian , and that’s what all good people need to remember .And perhaps that’s why some of the freedom folk hold a grudge , can you blame them . The media have been instrumental in you losing your job, you have a right to be angry.
  
  I note a very definite theme across many media commentators about how the “rabble” ,’mob’ , ‘crazies’ , call them what they will , are so bad , don’t think of the community , health , etc
  
  I can’t help feel that this is co ordinated out of the govt’s spin doctors , who we know have close “liason” with the political editors of our msm , who in any event have survived due to tax dollars and are therefor beholden to the regime.
  
  That’s one of the big stories of the scamdemic .
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:27am
  - Random T Person
    
    It’s the ‘little people’ who see the injustice with clarity.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:59am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Her partner Barely Sober is one of the few journos prepared to go and listen to the protestors, and provided accurate reporting on what he learned.
    
    That’s radically different to the “nuanced” hit jobs perpetrated by the rest of the bought-and-paid-for media, anyway.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:55pm
  - Jim
    
    Regardless of the outcome of this outstandingly well organised populist protest (and same situation in Ottawa) those duplicitous politicians and beurocrats should realise any future movement will only be bigger and have more support, unless the underlying issues of multinational corporate interference within democratic governance and MSM are addressed.
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:55pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It is interesting that “feelings” are now news. More curious is that the news involves the “feelings” of government supporters.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:30am
- Paulus
  
  I think you will find that the Fund was $50 million and then another $55 million = $105 million in all so far, and I get the inpressionn they will soon be wanting more.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:48am
  - Jim
    
    State sponsored media has been working so well in Trudope’s Canada. Just ask the truckers in Ottawa how much respect they have for the ‘editorial truth seeking’ from their media organisations.
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:58pm
kowtow

Coughlan in today’s Whoreald has a big dig at the demonstrators .

‘…..neo nazis and associated far right conspiracy theorists …….”

That’s accompanied by a photo showing the chubby maori guy pointing his umbrella like a weapon ,standing next to another maori guy doing what looks like the war dance , while the rest of the photo shows a clear majority of maoris , and not one of them dressed in Hugo Boss .
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February 17, 2022 8:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  After that photo appeared at the weekend, there were rumours that the PM was planning to ban military-style semi-automatic umbrellas…
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:15am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    And military style semi-auto bananas Tony. There was some talk she was going after carrots as well, since there was a rumour floating around that a “journalist” had been stabbed in the back with one. But the “journalist” advised her that her that carrots can only be sanctioned if they give her permission to do so. Ardern apparently pointed out that she always knows when carrots are really being used as knives.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:25am
  - kowtow
    
    good one.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:28am
  - Lee C
    
    .. or ‘hate-brellas’ as we will now call them…
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:35am
    - westernScientest
      
      they are clearly misogynist and perpetuating the patriarchy
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:10am
  - oldfella
    
    Tony, will Cindy launch a ‘semi-automatic umbrella’ buy-back scheme?
    Those are essential if the govt want to keep offensive weapons like this out of criminal hands.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What about the handle off a sawn off umbrella?
      
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      February 17, 2022 2:08pm
- emmess
  
  One day, the media will be held accountable for making the despicable slanderous accusations that the being allowed to get away with
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:44am
  - Random T Person
    
    No they won’t. I’m sorry, but this is the case. They get away with it, they have for years.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:00am
    - emmess
      
      Well, I disagree
      I think just six or so years ago, they never would have made those sorts of accusations against ordinary people.
      It started with Hilary Clinton’s basket of deplorables slander.
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:59pm
- curry4me
  
  The fringe quickly turned into a comb over. Now, it’s a mullet.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:01am
- emmess
  
  Here are those Neo-Nazis
  See for yourself
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSwx7Xl-VBA
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:44am
- Surely Knott
  
  Coughlan’s piece was dehumanising, dangerous and false, as he attempts to stir up societal hate against the target group.
  
  He states “While most people agree mandates don’t breach people’s rights, (they do have a choice not to get the jab after all and the mandates can be justified in a free and democratic society)…”
  
  He is asserting that it is a matter of fact that it is ok to curb basic participation in society if you act in a way that you could change.
  Historically, mandates , societal restrictions, or jail have been used for Gays, Jews, Communists. Restricting people from society for holding minority beliefs is illegal unethical and immoral.
  
  He then says “Given the anti-mandate group are only anti-mandate because they are anti-vaccine, and they’re only anti-vaccine because of conspiracy theories about it’s provenance and efficacy, there’s also an air of inevitability about the involvement of neo-Nazis, and associated far-right conspiracy theories and cranks.”
  
  First Historically the people being marginalised are not the ones who are Nazis – that describes the people in power. The propogandists labelling and shaming the marginalised group are the ones who need to reflect on their ethics.
  
  Second, Anti mandate does not mean anti vaccine. Anti mandate means anti segregation. It means you want your unvaxxed friend or customers to be allowed in your cafe. You believe in freedom and do not believe in carrying a passport with your personal details to segregate people within your own country.
  
  Third It is false to label protestors anti vaxxers. The anti-vaxxers are mostly anti-THIS-vax. All vaxxes are not equal in safety and efficacy. The MMR is very effective and creates herd immunity. The flu shot is much less effective and less durable, the flu virus also mutates regularly. It does not eradicate flu. And the Pfizer vax well….it’s not the MMR.
  
  Fourth. He says protestors hold “conspiracy theories about it’s provenance and efficacy” But he never states what the true provenance and efficacy is?. A wet market?! And what is the efficacy? How much does it stop the spread? Please enlighten us humble conspiracy theorists with the facts that you claim to hold.
  
  Fifth: Then he argues because there are people who are misinformed about the provenance and efficacy, well therefore it’s inevitable it must be linked to neo-nazis and far-right. WTF? It is a disgusting dishonest reflection of the many nurses, teachers, civil servants and hard working nzers who are there fighting for their right to participate in society.
  
  Finally: He says the protestors are far – right. We are literally under an a government that is forcing a medical treatment on people or banishing them from society. The most authoritarian period in history.
  
  Thomas Coughlan ‘s article is a disgrace aiming to drum up hate for those that oppose the governments hateful restrictions.. It’s just another opinion piece from the Herald’s propaganda team that fails to interview or give voice to anyone at the actual protestors and is devoid of facts.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:27am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Let’s hope Thomas never has to face a Fat Tony ‘choice’
    
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    February 17, 2022 7:22pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    I’m not an anti-vaxer, I’m an anti-anti-vaxer
    
    This protest needs to be labelled the anti-pro-discriminators and anti-anti-vaxers protest.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:30pm
Lee C

This is fascinating (for a nerd) reading. It describes teh Government’s approach to ‘branding’ and ‘marketing’ ‘covid’- including how to label opposition and how to recruit ‘experts’ to promote the narrative. Worth a read.
One quote:
“Mainstream scientists like Dr. Simon Thornley, media personalities like Mike Hosking, and politicians including Gerry Brownlee are described as using conspiracy theories to recruit NZers to right wing causes. All of whom should rightly have been described as high profile public figures stimulating discussion around political and scientific policies affecting a complex subject. The attempt to marginalise Ardern’s political opponents is obvious.”
https://hatchardreport.com/the-jacinda-papers/
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February 17, 2022 8:09am
- bythesea
  
  To give people an idea of the contents they have these narratives (and others) that must be rebutted:
  “only the elderly or infirm die”
  “deaths overestiamted because people die ‘with’ not ‘of'”
  
  and a bunch of others
  
  I always wondered why NZ media never mentioned it was mostly a problem for old people, chronically unwell and the morbidly obese for the last two years. They were instructed not to!!!
  
  Gaslighting bastards.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:20am
- mogg
  
  Ardern and her media cheerleaders have handled this badly and they know it, but they can’t go back and start over. So they dig their toes in and keep right on going by trying to villanise the protesters with fake news. Ardern is now into conspiracy theory with the claims of ‘foreign money’ with not one scrap of evidence , (she needs to get a grip). Where is her world famous look of empathy, ie the crumpled face and the sad eyes looking into the nearest TV camera.
  Now for her it is all about trying to save face, so talking to the protesters is not going to happen.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:03am
- bronny1
  
  Starting to see where the $6m that this group got, has gone. Not just crappy modelling.
  
  The problem is, a number of the things they label conspiracy theories and shut down are now proven or close to it, e.g. lab origins considered more likely than not, elderly/comorbid more likely affected, HCQ as a treatment, etc.
  
  This government needs to pay.
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:31pm
Yvette

“These are the ~~droids~~ answers you’re looking for.”
“I don’t think it was a responsible thing to do for a party that purports to be the champion of law and order or indeed businesses, to meet with those who are obstructing Wellingtonians from going about their everyday lives, bullying and harassing people who are trying to go to school or work,” Ardern told reporters on Wednesday.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-slates-irresponsible-act-leader-david-seymour-for-engaging-with-parliament-protesters.html

The accompanying video, reveals a “journalist” had just asked a question –
David Seymour has meet with some of the leadership of this protest. Do you think that is emboldening the protesters and do you think it is a responsible thing to do?
– and Ardern abruptly replies, “No! I don’t think …” so is answering a question that is not particularly neutral, and in the written report, any indication of Ardern’s statement being an answer to the prompting question is omitted. The article also seems to omit any mention of the owner of the Backbencher pub who requested the Seymour meeting.

TVNZ 1 News seems to also omit this request, in their reporting

Although RNZ does –
… Seymour and ACT MP Nicole McKee accepted a request from the owner of the Backbencher pub across the road from Parliament, to meet with representatives of the group who have been protesting outside for more than a week.
… Seymour this afternoon told media he and McKee met with a “couple dozen” people including someone who was in contact with the “emerging leadership”, after the pub owner contacted him saying the mood had shifted.

And, Newshub again, a few days ago –
Christopher Luxon says Jacinda Ardern should resign if she backs down on COVID-19 border reopening dates
… “I would have thought so. I think she’s made it crystal clear today and she’s set expectations people expect her to deliver on,” he told Newshub.
So was this just a comment also in response to a loaded question, but translates into –
If she backs down, National leader Christopher Luxon says it’s a resignation offence.

It’s an ago old trick, framing a question to prompt the answer you want.
Amongst the star dust see STAR WARS
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February 17, 2022 8:11am
- kowtow
  
  We can expect govt backbenchers to ask patsy questions on the floor of the house , but when journalists do the same thing at press conferences , one has to ask how independent they are , what is their agenda , and indeed who framed the question for them.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:35am
  - oldfella
    
    How about an intrepid journalist asks:
    Reporter: Prime Minister, don’t you think it’s unfair that your beloved fiance is currently the subject of so many scurrilous, unfair, unfounded rumours?
    Jacinda: Who?
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:26am
  - cmm
    
    “We can expect govt backbenchers to ask patsy questions on the floor of the house”
    
    Unfortunately we do expect this, but we should not.
    
    All MPs, including these back benchers, are paid by us to serve our interests – not the interested of the politicians themselves.
    
    And, yes, for the “what-about” brigade. This nonsense of wasting parliament time, the time WE pay for, is wrong no matter what party does it.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:28am
- Paulus
  
  Isn’t David Seymour a duly Elected Member of Parliament and it is up to him not Arden how he behaves and what he not only believes but does ?
  His constituants will judge him at the Election.
  He is not a Labour List MP lacky remember.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:53am
  - kowtow
    
    Excellent point .
    
    Who the hell does she think she is should be the media pardy headline .
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:46am
cmm

Bringing in the army is intimidation even if they do nothing.

It’s like pulling a gun. You don’t actually have to pull the trigger to use the gun as an instrument of force.
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February 17, 2022 8:11am
- nathie
  
  Yes, history will not judge Labour kindly, they have used intimidation tactics throughout (from Mallard “broadcasting” loud music through the night to keep protesters awake, like some kind of “psychological torture” … to Mallard “broadcasting” repeat messages of himself, like Big Brother from 1984).
  
  All backed up by Labour Party apparatchiks on social media calling for the Police to bash the protesters and now Army intimidation.
  
  If this was National the media would be “holding them t account” and crucifying them …
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:27am
  - WellingtonBFF
    
    The funny thing is, if the media was honest they would report on how hypocritcal the government is regarding protests. Labour/greens are full of soap-dodging protestor types happy to jump on any protest bandwagon. Loved it back in the day, a few arrests under the belt. Somehow now it is different.
    
    And as for Jaspinda denigrating Seymour talking to protestors as ‘irresponsible for a party that supports law and order’, in a perverse way indicates she should be supporting the protestors actions as a party that clearly does not support law and order…….
    
    And blocking the roads is only a public nuisance when it suits. In Northland it is approved……
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:13am
    - kowtow
      
      It can’t be said enuff
      
      The right to protest there was partly established by the arrest and acquital of Mallard himself for a 1977 SIS protest.
      
      The hypocrisy is astouding as is the lack of genuine commentary from the media on that very aspect of his actions against the freedom folk.
      
      Instead we’ve had 3 consequtive days of anti demo villification from the Heralds senior reporters
      
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      February 17, 2022 10:53am
      - Nickc2
        
        Professional Protestors (Labour/Green) vs Amateur Protestors (Silent Majority).
        
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        February 17, 2022 11:32am
- chukar
  
  Using the army against citizens involved in lawful ,or indeed any activity is a step too far.
  If this happens the New Zealand we know and love would never be the same again!
  Aotearoa joins North Korea ?
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe not North Korea, but along with the history of Cuba, Venezuela etc
    
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    February 17, 2022 2:48pm
- kowtow
  
  A guy talking for the towies has said they can’t openly say they support the freedom folk .They have to make lame excuses like sickness etc
  
  Cos so much of their business comes from govt agencies and councils etc
  
  They are clearly financially intimidated .
  
  I reckon that’s why we see so much govt type imagery / speech / etc ……. in advertising etc
  
  …..they are desperate to show they’re onside in order not to lose contracts etc
  
  says a lot about the level of democracy when so many fear the govt.
  
  Very sad.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:40am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    My daughters partner owns a large tow company in Auckland. He was called up by the Police and asked if he would send his trucks to Wellington. Rates were above normal well above normal.
    Said no.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:50am
    - kowtow
      
      Good on him!
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:30pm
- [email protected]
  
  The army personnel are likely less trained to handle the protesters than the police.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:43am
- Ian Boag
  
  As I mentioned yesterday, the military will likely beg off on the basis that they are not trained in crowd control. Nothing to do with how individuals feel about the protest.
  
  Seems pretty reasonable to me.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:09am
  - rockape
    
    I thought the NZ defence force spent most of its time on peace keeping tours. Should have had some crowd control training. I did courtesy of Northern Ireland and the Yorkshire miners strike.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:37am
    - Nickc2
      
      The NZ military is trained in Crowd Control.
      Aid to the Civil Power (ACP) or Military Aid to the Civil Power (MACP) is the use of the armed forces in support of the civil authorities of a state. Different countries have varying policies regarding the relationship between their military and civil authorities.
      This role was a well rehearsed practice when I was in the Military and afik, nothing’s changed. We were even trained to take out Ring Leaders in disturbances.
      
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      February 17, 2022 11:43am
- Dougal10
  
  It may be cindys live by the sword die by the sword moment. Once you politicize the army you have to accept one day it may turn on you as world history shows.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:31am
Maggie Pie

-1 tried deleteing but not happening
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February 17, 2022 8:13am
- Simon
  
  Luxon, Mad central planner from Tribe National.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:18am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Been a forever problem never fixed.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Has not worked for a long time. Just erase everything and leave a full stop (.)
  Otherwise ask the mods to remove it
  
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  February 17, 2022 2:52pm
Philip Hart

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300519291/minimum-wage-workers-pushed-near-middle-tax-bracket

Neither the reporters or commentators understand the tax system. There is a rebate that disappears at 13cents after $44000. So your marginal rate after that is 30.5% and 30% after $48000. That’s is if you aren’t getting working for families etc. if you are, or you are getting another benefit, or paying child support then your marginal rate is at least 37.5%

So 40 hours at the minimum wage and one way or another you are already paying over 30%
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February 17, 2022 8:14am
Simon

Aligned with the World Economic Forum’s mission, we seek to drive public-private co-operation in the global public interest. We are united by the belief that today’s pressing problems present an opportunity to build a better future across sectors and boundaries.

The Forum of Young Global Leaders is a community of innovators from diverse backgrounds and experiences.

Jacinda Ardern

Prime Minister of New Zealand, Government of New Zealand, New Zealand

https://www.younggloballeaders.org/community?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Ardern

Imported.
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February 17, 2022 8:14am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Sorry but am I the only one who thinks this treasonous? The WEF vision for the future was never discussed at the election to my knowledge so how come their goals and aims, a foreign organisation, are being implemented by our government? This pest of a PMs relationship with other WEF leaders such as Trudeau and Macron is made obvious by their lockstep Covid response, obsessive devotion to vaccines and eagernesses to mandate and marginalise. Why it’s almost as if there is a central planner telling them what to do next.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:28am
- Surely Knott
  
  On a similar note, Why is Harvard inviting a sitting Prime Minister to give their annual speech. The arrogance to think that the speech to a handful of academic elite is more important than the leadership of our entire nation who are under state of emergency restrictions due to a supposed pandemic. I
  
  Helen Clarke [Clark] should give the speech instead.
  
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  February 17, 2022 2:13pm
  - Lummox
    
    Even if we are lucky enough for the pandemic emergency to be over before she travels overseas, she still needs to stay here to manage the climate emergency which we still have.
    
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    February 17, 2022 3:54pm
kowtow

A look at a big city North American newspaper carries the sad story of a shooting in a secondary school .

14 year old shoots and kills 18 year old.

Of course our msm won’t hpye over it , you see that’s Trudeau’s Canada , not Trump’s USA.

I note too the paper refers to the Freedom Convoy as “so called” .

Did they ever give that honorific to BLM or antifa.

Another interesting story was the huge number of overdoses at city sponsored safe drug injestion stations .

Sounds a right mess .
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February 17, 2022 8:15am
Tomtoddy

It would be easy to be cynical about Seymour visiting the Wellington protest and I am sure he consulted his “political playbook” to test possible reactions but there is no doubt in my mind it was the right thing to do and shows nous, courage, good timing and leadership.

It is now clear that the protest group is gaining some common ground, has a more strategic approach and with the support of people like Matt King, Leighton Baker and others is better organised. They have blown away any links to extremists if ever that was a real issue or just a media figment of imagination.

It is time for the MSM and particularly the Government to show some maturity and respect by engaging. The protesters are legitimate, this is a democracy where individual voters are treated equally and politicians need reminding they are the servants of the people…. all of them.
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February 17, 2022 8:21am
- cmm
  
  What we really have here is divisive politics at its worst. People are forced to categorise themselves according to categories forced on them by others.
  
  Western culture is founded on free speech and tolerance. People should be allowed to say what they think. People should be allowed to listen to what others say whether they agree with them or not.
  
  It is completely ridiculous to brand someone according to whom they speak to – especially if they are a politician. Politicians represent everyone in society and should thus understand everyone’s point of view – whether they agree with them or not.
  
  Cindy is being a two-faced liar here. She regularly interacts with gangs and people with criminal pasts. It is one thing to talk to such people to understand their point of view, but it is quite another to hand over wodges of taxpayer $ to them.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:33am
- slernz
  
  I am cynical. The reason Mr Seymour met the protesters is because his support plummeted. Mr Seymour wants to keep his gold-plated opposition role, good salary, perks galore and generous superannuation package. I believe he is self-serving.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:16am
  - curry4me
    
    Nailed it he has been getting flak from members. Some, like me are former members. Its no more a ‘freedom party’ than fly to the moon.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:59am
- leoj
  
  Seymour is a day late and a dollar short.
  Instead of wetting his finger and sticking it in the air as his barometer, his deepest convictions should have been in play from day one.
  Now we know what his deepest convictions really are. He is not alone. The Nats are exactly the same.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:04am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Agreed. He’s made a big mistake. Following Winston never looks good, won’t retrieve his reputation with his core support and the rest already went back to National.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:38am
  - curry4me
    
    The boldest policies are often the safest. Imagine if he’d sent a couple of staffers to mingle with the crowd for the first couple of days. Then checked the webcam footage. On that basis he could have done something really bold, like gone down with all the MPs at lunch time, and mingled.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:02pm
- Ra Henare
  
  I am still deeply Cynical of Seymour.
  
  From denigrating the protestors initially to meeting with them and telling them what to do.!!!!
  (No mention of him listening to their concerns and offering to represent their views in parliament)
  
  Na just a vote seeking rent boy.
  
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  February 17, 2022 4:00pm
Frank the tank

Anyone else delighted that Wellington is being shafted (or at least the wanker parts) by the protest.

After months of being locked down with the bonus of picnics to see the place that imposed those restrictions, forced the cancellation of 4 holidays, drove me to borderline alcoholism (that I am just weaning myself off now) and shat on my kids sporting aspirations for 24 months (ongoing) having some slight discomfort is one of the world’s small victories.

The petulant behavior by the tosser elites in that city because a few streets are blocked off and they get insults when they walk down the road in their face nappies is way over the top.

Up in Auckland we haven’t had normal for 6 months now – do you hear us crying? Did Wellington give a feck about my local pub or the gym I swim at?

Wellington in the immortal words of Newsboy’s milf muse on 7 sharp – ZERO FUCKS GIVEN!
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February 17, 2022 8:27am
- leoj
  
  Dropped off a food parcel to the protest food kitchen. Parked car in Tinakori Rd, walked down Bowen Ave. Walked past hundreds of people. 99% of pedestrians were wearing masks. Outdoors! Morons, each and every one. Same on the way back up Bowen Ave. More morons. New Zealand is full of morons.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:11am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Wellington – like most elite cities in the world are in their own little self important bubble. Let them be and snigger off to the side – the comedown will be more entertaining.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:39am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Wellington is full of morons. No masks on Russell streets. No-one bothers with signing in.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:40am
  - My
    
    Yep, I despair when I see folks walking down the beach with a mask on. We’r on the edge of the Pacific, onshore winds, nothing between them and Argentina 10,000 kms away.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:16pm
    - Taieri
      
      nothing between them and Argentina 10,000 kms away
      —————
      
      Not quite. There’s Chile in between.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:40pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Don’t be perantic!
        
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        February 17, 2022 7:28pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      A badge of compliance…… i.e. I am a goodie goodie moron
      
      5 0
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      February 17, 2022 1:11pm
      - Inandout
        
        Bri, and sometimes the masks hide ugliness.
        
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        February 17, 2022 1:34pm
    - Paulus
      
      I see an older lady today in big Remmer, very expensive, Tractor on their own with a mask on.
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:46pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Well the remmer Tractor makes you feel safe and you can look down on others. The mask makes it even safer.
        It is not Maggie, she drives a Porch
        
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        February 17, 2022 3:17pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Reminds me of the 1060’2 saying : ” Nice legs, shame about the face.” 😉
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:01pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Don Beckett
        Reminds me of the 1960’2 saying : ” Nice legs, shame about the face.” ?
        
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        February 17, 2022 3:03pm
  - bronny1
    
    i think its Wellington. My mate came to visit and i had to say, hey we don’t really wear masks down here, we’re outside and its windy. Its just become a habit for her in Welly.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:35pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    All those unclean people compressed into the mosh pit of Parliament. Of course masks are going to come out, covid is at Wellington’s doorstep ///.
    
    To those in fear, let’s think why there is no raging covid. It’s been 10 days now, with a raging storm thrown in. Rampart Omicron should have seen at least some unvaxed protesters carted off in ambulances now.
    
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    February 17, 2022 3:47pm
Warren

What a silly statement from our Prime Minister, ‘Jacinda Ardern is concerned Foreign money may be funding the occupation ‘.
I certainly wouldn’t rule out the connection with groups off shore she said.
This just shows you how out of touch with New Zealander’s our Prime Minister is, she has pissed a lot of Kiwi’s off who live oversea’s and haven’t be able to get back because of Jacinda Ardern’s MIQ rules so you could bet their families are helping the fund, you piss people off over not be able to get back for funerals and serious illnesses and people don’t forget.
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February 17, 2022 8:30am
- nathie
  
  Evidence please Jacinda, otherwise you are making things up and don’t know what you are talking about.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:47am
  - rouppe
    
    “Concerned”, and “maybe”.
    
    Like “daily infections may rise to 50,000 by Waitangi Day”.
    
    It’s a way of slandering others while giving yourself a sliver of deniability
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:53am
  - mawm
    
    Nathie – the WEF, that trained her and demanded her allegiance, is funded to large extent by wealthy foreign donors. It’s time for someone to remind her.
    
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    February 17, 2022 5:17pm
- kevn
  
  @Warren…. arden really is full of it.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:47am
- emmess
  
  Foreign money may be funding the occupation
  
  So what if it is?
  
  Workers if the world unite
  Global Marxist Elites: Not like that!!!!
  
  #TeamOf8Billion
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:50am
  - Surely Knott
    
    The un-passported are cashed up. Stock piling money because they can’t travel, go to restaurants , hairdressers or events, and they’re throwing it at the freedom protest instead.
    
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    February 17, 2022 2:19pm
- Cinematic
  
  What a nutty statement from the PM. She’s given over to worrying about all manner of nonsense these days. She needs to move on.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:00am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    First they were a small minority of NZ’ers, then anti-vaxxers, then white supremacists, then imported from overseas, and now funded offshore. She’s just making up crap in a desperate effort to downplay and discredit a group of people who clearly represent a much larger part of NZ society than she want to admit who hate her Government’s guts.
    
    Next they’ll be members of the Illuminati, alleged slave traders, ISIS followers and possibly part-time methamphetamine cooks.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:00pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      No that’s her mates with the badges
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:02pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Like the Brownies?
        
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        February 17, 2022 7:30pm
- curry4me
  
  Does money from the mainland count as foreign?
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:06am
- Give a Man a Fish
  
  “Jacinda Ardern is concerned Foreign money may be funding the occupied”
  I am highly concerned that Jacinda is (not maybe) using taxpayer money to fund the NZ Media. For the Media to receive the government money, many of Labour’s ideological conditions must be met. That makes the media a propaganda arm of the government, not an independent news source.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  OK
  
  How much foreign money funds MP’s ?
  
  That’s a bigly story .
  
  Our media like to talk about kiwi success at the winter ollies .
  
  More importantly what’s the Oly host ‘s success rate here ?
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But there she was planning the Wedding of the Year at an American Billionaire’s spread at Young Nick’s Head Station.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:31am
- I remember when
  
  Foreign money may be funding the occupation.
  Is this Jacinda’s way of explaining that the occupation is not costing NZ tax payers.
  Perhaps satisfaction that it is not reducing our funds of foreign currency.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:36am
- Nickc2
  
  With all this shit going on in Parliament Grounds, you’d think Cindy would be on the scene where decisions are required to be made at a moment’s notice. No, she’s in Rotten Rua promoting a jobs scheme for Maori. Shows where her allegiances are doesn’t it.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-in-rotorua-for-several-appointments-today/GVZAJFTBK5XGYRPJV5IVRGZUYA/
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:41pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Leadership. Hmmm.
    
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    February 17, 2022 7:31pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Robertson and Co are afraid that if questioned by a REAL journalist about her lack of a Covid plan and/or the protest, she will turn to custard so she has been sent off on a bogus mission.
      
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      February 17, 2022 10:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Diversion – childish, but the 5 year olds believe her
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:20pm
Tony Stuart

Be watching Parliament at 2pm this afternoon when Chris Bishop, as Shadow Leader of the House, tries to introduce a Notice of Motion of No Confidence in Trevor Mallard. The Notice of Motion reads thus:

That the House has no confidence in the Rt Hon Trevor Mallard as Speaker of the House of Representatives due to his childish, provocative and embarrassing behaviour during the occupation of and protest at Parliament grounds in February 2022, which was counterproductive to resolving the situation and done without the support of the New Zealand Police.

It will be interesting to see if Mallard chairs this afternoon’s session of Parliament; last Thursday, he handed over to Deputy Speaker Adrian Rurawhe whilst he watched developments in Parliament’s grounds from his balcony.

To get the motion debated and voted on Bishop has to seek leave of the House, which any MP can block by objecting. One one occasion last year when a previous No Confidence motion was introduced, Mallard himself said he would oppose it if no one else did. But it’s far more likely there will be a chorus of objections from the Labour benches.

That’s because Labour will do whatever it takes to protect Trevor Mallard from the scrutiny of those who elected him, his fellow MP’s. This, of course, is the same Labour Party which Jacinda Ardern pledged would be “the most open and transparent government New Zealand has ever seen” when she came to power late in 2017.

Trevor Mallard will survive the attempt to have Parliament express No Confidence in him today. He is however, in my ever-humble opinion, the worst Speaker of the New Zealand Parliament in my lifetime.
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February 17, 2022 8:31am
- All_on_Red
  
  Not only the worst Sprinkler, I mean Speaker, he’s a pretty shit Human Being too.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:34am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    In the immortal words of Francis Urquhart, “You might think that; I couldn’t possibly comment,”
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:19am
    - I remember when
      
      Tony Stuart: Certainly not if Trevor was in the Chair.
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:41am
- Tomtoddy
  
  Tony, we have had a few fairly incompetent speakers over the years. Margaret Wilson was out of her depth. Kerry Burke was not up to it. David Carter barely made the grade.
  
  But Mallard joins incompetence with sheer nastiness and bullying. He has demeaned one of our most important and prestigious offices and it reflects badly on him and his party.
  
  The best speakers of recent times were probably Tapsell, Gray and Harrison. Even bumbling old Jonathon Hunt looks a saint alongside the duck.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:46am
  - pdm
    
    Tom – you missed Dr, The Honourable Lockwood-Smith. Not only the longest name in Speakerships but easily the best I have seen.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:08am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Dr, the Right Honourable Sir Alexander Lockwood Smith, to be 100% accurate 😀
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:21am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The worst of all, prior to Mallard, was Dr Gerry Wall. In the two years Wall served as Speaker, almost every Opposition MP was ejected from the Chamber at some point, most on multiple occasions.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:23am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  Not that I disagree with your post Tony but the irony in your final sentence is that National, in the past 3 years has been the worst parliamentary opposition in my lifetime. And we are now paying the price.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:53am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I can’t disagree, especially in the last couple of years. There are signs now however that the right people are sitting in the right seats, and the level of opposition is improving quickly. It’s especially good starting to see Simon Bridges get under Grant Robertson’s skin, to the point where Robertson has to resort to mocking Bridges’ style of speech.
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:26am
    - jon
      
      Hell if i had as many chins as Robertson has, i d be loathe to mock anyone for any imperfections they may have.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:56pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes, he’s got more Chins than a Chinese phone book.
        
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        February 17, 2022 3:08pm
  - rouppe
    
    That’s pretty fair…
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:51am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I don’t think that is at all true. The essential problem is that they have been reliant upon a hostile partisan media that are deeply in bed with the govt. They are only granted air time when it can be spun to put them in a bad light. When they do their job well and criticise the govt effectively it doesn’t get reported in major channels. The only time they do get air is when they do get prominence is when they say something controversial that the media can then attack them for. So they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
    
    I think this has resulted in the skulking shy behaviour we have seen from Seymour and Luxon over the anti mandate protests. They know that partisan media will use it as an attack vector against them if they show any sympathy, so have shied away from it.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:36am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  He makes John Bercow look like a paragon of virtue
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:53am
I remember when

The Daily Digest: Trudeau invokes emergency measures and vows to freeze bank accounts:
So he still isn’t prepared to take any actions that are too draconian.
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February 17, 2022 8:34am
- Cinematic
  
  The way Trudeau spoke at the announcement of this seriously demented anti democratic move had my skin crawling. A very strange manner and tone of delivery.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:05am
  - oldfella
    
    Cinematic. Trudeau’s very strange manner and tone of delivery probably comes from watching too many Jacinda speeches.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:30am
- krazykiwi
  
  Here is one of Trudeau latest self-disgracing actions:
  
  Prime Minister Justin Trudeau caused a tumult on Feb. 16 during question period as he responded to a Conservative MP who is Jewish by saying her party stands with people waving swastikas. Trudeau was asked to apologize repeatedly but he did not.
  
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  February 17, 2022 5:50pm
  - curry4me
    
    Yeah, I saw that on YT. Utterly disgraceful. I must say the speaker there does an excellent job.
    
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    February 17, 2022 6:33pm
Lee C

Can anyone explain to me why Ardern in on record defending giving money to the Mongrel Mob, but may be considering sending the army in against working class kiwis and their children?

Are the army just more cost-effective than the Mongrel Mob, or has ‘Rent-a-Thug’ been closed down as a casualty of the mandates.?

Asking for a friend.
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February 17, 2022 8:38am
- kowtow
  
  here’s a thought .
  
  most of the freedom folk are from ahem , what , nasty Trotter calls the lumpenproletariat, I exclude some others there who are small business owners or folk who lost their jobs thro’ the mandates .
  
  The lumpens are people the left , and that includes the bought and paid for media pardy , who according to the left should be beholden to labour / green for their benefits , tax transfers , their very existence and who therefor owe their fealty to same.
  
  But once the peasants rise up against their masters and no longer tip their cap or forget their place then the anger that “betrayal” causes in the master is such that he/she will literally turn the attack dogs ( media and police) on them , so they will skulk back to their hovels and reflect on their disloyalty .
  
  There’s nothing the left hate more than a class traitor , you see they actually believe they own you. The history of left wing revolutions is littered with the carcasses of their own cruelty to their own people.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:55am
  - nathie
    
    Great thoughts kowtow – you are right, Labour have for a long time disregarded their original supporters (workers) in favour of “trendy lefty stuff” (like identity politics and now correct groupthink and cancel culture).
    
    Labour took the “lumpenproletariat” for granted and now they are “revolting” (and dopey Cindy and Robbo probably truly believe they are “revolting” in the negative sense of the word).
    
    Labour now don’t know what to do …. they barely engaged with the workers and can’t understand why they are not staying silent anymore.
    
    Labour have been out of touch with the common person for 3-4 decades now and it is coming back to bite them bigtime!
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:09am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The “left” do not represent the working class . They represent urban elites who have convinced themselves that their myopic identity politics and feelings based approach to everything has some connection to the politics of the 20th century worker’s party’s. Both here and in the UK a labour supporter is more likely to have a university degree than a trade certificate. The protesters at Parliament are all the proof you need of the compete disconnect between the “Labour “ party and grassroots working class people
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:54am
    - curry4me
      
      Imagine what the people who formed the Labour party in 1916 would think of the current crop of Labour MPs. Also vice versa if they met.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:08pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        We know what the current crop of Labour MPs think of the people of the type that formed the Labour Party because they turned the sprinklers on them
        
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        February 17, 2022 7:35pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Good point Lee. Ardern has been particularly soft of the Mob. Given they are drug dealing scum, I cannot imagine why she wouldn’t have had the police crawling up all their arses. Nope, can’t think of one reason.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yeah, Lee. Send in the Mongrel Mod. They have guns you know, the Army may have just a few, and need permission to take safety off
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:28pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Ardern is on a downward slide..

Her one trick card of acting as a uniting beacon has been well and truly stumped.

She created the divide and rule mess that now permeates our covid response.

Those that are getting hardest hit by lack of income and opportunities aren’t blaming inflation or overseas events, they are directing their frustration at her Government.
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February 17, 2022 8:42am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And OMG…. found this last night in my Twitter archive 😀
  
  https://twitter.com/RudyHavenstein/status/1416048088007860226
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:53am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    “We wool continue”. She’s a beaut ain’t she?
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bit fuzzy
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:30pm
  - I remember when
    
    MP
    Whether you like it or not!
    
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    February 17, 2022 9:47am
    - Nickc2
      
      Betcha Uncle Trev won’t put that on his Parliamentary Speaker System Loop for the protestors.
      If he did, I think even Labour MPs would get it removed asap. However, Stewart Nash will probably buy a copy.
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:56pm
- Paulus
  
  Looking at the huge divide in New Zealand currently Ardern’s slide is getting much more slippery by the week.
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:53pm
Benedict Yu

Stayed last night in Omapere.

https://www.hokianga.com/destinations/south-hokianga/omapere-2

The hotel is nice, but has been devastated by the COVID mandates, losing many of the staff, including the chef. They are really struggling, with a limited menu at the restaurant.

Very sad to see.
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February 17, 2022 8:49am
- Inandout
  
  BY, that situation is replicated in hospitality throughout NZ. This country is slowly dying but we can rest assured all public servants will continue to enjoy uninterrupted salaries and job security. I despair now when I drive through smaller towns which are decimated in retail and the cities which have become empty spaces occupied by tramps.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:28am
- Scott
  
  I would suggest Benedict that one thing that put me off going to the far north was the road blocks set up by Hone Hariwira. The idea that I could be stopped by Maori people, have my covid passes examined and only be allowed to carry on under their sufferance was intolerable to me.
  Hone did a great job in helping to ruin tourism in the region.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:31am
  - kowtow
    
    The other day Cuddles Coster said he had to draw a line when activity became criminal and blocked roads so ordinary folk couldn’t go about their business .
    
    This from the guy who sent police to actually assist said criminality up north and parliament actually changed the law to legitimise it.
    
    And where’s the outrage .
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:32am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Hone is a complete fkwit and his roadblocks lasted a couple of days but did much damage. Our regular Xmas guests were disappointed their plan to run him over was thwarted. Actually our bookings have been pretty solid since the Auckland barrier was lifted despite some Covid cancellations.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:48am
- kowtow
  
  That’s a microcosm od wot’s happening in Q’twn .
  Which is indicative of where the whole country will be in a few weeks time .
  
  The shit will go on for a while and then we’re out of it .
  
  What will the long term fall out be ?
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:14am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Sorry Benedict – could have offered you a cuppa ( with appropriate soc d’ing of course) while you waited for the ferry if I’d seen this early and wasn’t “out of village” this week at my other Northland “place”. 🙂
  But re your “been devastated by the COVID mandates”. The devastation been going on a lot longer than that ( the current operators are still “newbies” to the area in local terms).
  
  In the early 2000’s the area had a tourism/real estate development “boom” and locals really thought that it c/would grow into something like a west coast Paihia or say Akaroa. If you did a local Omapere/Opononi tiki tour you might have seen this 2003ish one – about 5 “builds” in nigh on 20 years – – it was a pipe dream really because of the realities.:
  https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-35.5090338,173.3923417,3a,75y,104.05h,71.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAnh7ysYrne9WiGhvAieNOg!2e0!5s20130201T000000!7i13312!8i6656
  
  The reality is that it’s tourism industry has become just a pass through snack/sleep stop thing as:
  1) it’s isolated with a minimum 60 km of slow winding road to access and even slower if you get stuck behind a local as you’ve probably already discovered: and unlike Akaroa a sizable supporting populations have other/better options so don’t bother with a day trip.
  2) Unlike the east side (Keri/Paihia) there’s no substantive other industry to sustain any sort of non essential retail/service sectors.
  As a consequence any economic down turn or tourism impediment adds to the devastation that really started happening with the GFC.
  
  When I first lived up this way early ’70s Opononi/ Omapere was bigger than Kerikeri.
  
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  February 17, 2022 2:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is nice. Been out to the bar in a 10 foot dinghy – did not go over.
  3 snaps on the BBQ in the camp by the pub/hotel.
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:36pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    If you don’t get a meal in or outside that harbour it’s not the fishes fault. 🙂
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:58pm
ClanMcleod

Yet more evidence from official sources that the covid jab is not fit for purpose.

The UK Health Security Agency data yet again showing that the jabs not only don’t stop infection, they actually increase the risk.
Yet when I asked Auckland Council why I should pay full rates when I can’t access the services I pay for I was told it was because the unvaccinated are 20 x more likely to spread the virus than the unvaccinated.
How does a person fight against blatant lies like this?
Also, yes, it appears the vaccine reduces the chance of death after infection, but the protection wanes rapidly.

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/15/ukhsa-data-continue-to-show-vaccine-effectiveness-highly-negative-against-infection-and-dropping-fast-against-death/

How many jabs are people prepared to get? When are people going to address the real reason most of them are at risk from covid and look at their lifestyle choices? As many said at the start, yes, protect the vulnerable. If you have serious underlying conditions take a chance with the jab if you assess your risk as worth it. But if you are reasonably fit and healthy you should be getting on with your life as normal. You should never be coerced to have the jab. You should never be compelled to wear a mask.
This circus is over. The clowns aren’t funny. Time to pull the curtain down.

All mandates must go. Vax passes must go. These policies and anything like them must never be attempted again. Ardern must go and never come back.
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February 17, 2022 8:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You can’t beat the ignorance in New Zealand. What would happen if a journalist teamed up with a statistician, and published a 5 part series on the efficacy of the vaccines? If it got past the editor, the government would threaten them.
  
  Most folk are not great with data. And I have noticed this is getting worse in New Zealand. Just look at the crash in Maths results in schools. It should be treated as a National emergency.
  
  Put another way. If you handed your linked analysis to 10 random 30 year olds in New Zealand, maybe two of them would have at least satisfactory comprehension of what they were reading. In Taiwan it would be 7 out of the ten. And probably 1 or 2 could critique it. All comes down to the priority accorded to education.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:25am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    BY as a 70 yo I have noted the decline in education over the past decades. I first employed people at the age of 21. From then on the standards of reading writing and maths went down hill. A few years ago the Law School at Auckland Uni had to introduce remedial reading courses for first year students so they could understand the texts.
    We have had a situation where each generation of teachers have a lower level of education so a dumbing down of the system.
    Sad.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:20am
  - surfing
    
    ClanMcleod has used raw UKHSA data to determine vaccine effectiveness.
    
    Yet you and your anti-vax mates go and do the exact opposite!
    
    UKHSA say….
    “This raw data should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness.”
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Oh, what a win surfing! You’re amazing.//
      
      UKHSA, CDC and all of the others have been doing that for months when faced with data that doesn’t fit the narrative. They can’t suppress it and can’t deny it, they throw a meaningless proviso into the mix. The data is clear for your to interpret it or not.
      
      I’m guessing you read all the disclaimers on the packets of painkillers you buy? What about your Ipod updates when you click accept? Read it all through do you? What about the box of useless facemasks? Ever read the part of the box that states clearly:
      
      “This product is an ear loop mask, this product is not a respirator and will not provide any protections against COVID-19 (coronavirus) and other viruses or contaminants.”
      
      No, you didn’t read the above data either. It doesn’t fit your narrative.
      
      Oh well, ya got me there big time Surfing, humbled me. What can I say, you’re a champion.
      Keep up the great work!
      
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      February 17, 2022 12:40pm
      - surfing
        
        And more than that, you have been shown up as a peddler of false information.
        
        Anything that does not fit your bias is discarded as meaningless.
        
        Rather than an explanation as to why the UKHSA is wrong, you enter a rambling nonsensical dialogue that the UKHSA is just making stuff up. Can’t explain, so gave up.
        
        Thankfully, you are in the fringe population along with Krazy and Yu. I find it odd that often the anti-vaxxers are actually vaxxed themselves.
        
        One thing I oppose though are the vaccine mandates. Maybe that is the only thing on which we will ever agree.
        
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        February 17, 2022 3:26pm
- krazykiwi
  
  This is one the more comprehensive pieces of analysis I’ve read on the topic of ‘vaccine’ efficacy. I commend the author’s Substack – Bartram’s Folly to readers. From what I have been able to establish, Bartram is a retired academic and statistician. His/her posts are always well reasoned, and evidence based. I am a subscriber.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:36am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Excellent. That is a great blog site. The truth can’t be stopped. Ardern will try, she will fail eventually. It all comes down to how narcissistic and delusional she is so I’d say we’re in for the long haul.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:34am
  - surfing
    
    “This is one the more comprehensive pieces of analysis I’ve read on the topic of ‘vaccine’ efficacy. ”
    
    And also completely wrong. As explained by the UKHSA themselves.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:33am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      You’ve read it, you explain it to us Surfing. You’ve got this.
      
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      February 17, 2022 2:00pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        surfing is convinced there’s Simpson’s paradox at work. There isn’t. The data classification by UKHSA make this quite clear, as does the data from Denmark and Israel.
        
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        February 17, 2022 2:15pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    The evidence of preferential infection of the vaxxed is getting so so inconvenient that the censorship has kicked in: Public Health Scotland is immediately stopping reporting Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths by vaccination status.
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:33pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Here’s Igor Chudov’s commentary on this.
      
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      February 17, 2022 4:37pm
      - mawm
        
        It’s good to know that the vaccinated die with less severe disease than the vaccinated. //s
        
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        February 17, 2022 8:47pm
- surfing
  
  Rather than getting your information directly from anti-vaxxers, go directly to the UKHSA, who collect this data….UKHSA advice is…
  
  “This raw data should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness.”
  
  Yet, you bully on and do exactly that! You clearly have no idea at all about what you are posting.
  
  If you want more details, read the following….
  https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2021/11/02/transparency-and-data-ukhsas-vaccines-report/
  
  And, the latest UKHSA report…
  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:26am
  - Taieri
    
    The following comes courtesy of Daily Mail:
    
    “(…)There were 2,639 Covid-related deaths nationally between March 2020 and January 31 – of which 2,556 (96.8 per cent) had an underlying health condition – according to new figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics.
    
    There were 32,000 deaths from heart disease in Australia in that period, with Covid deaths making up only one per cent of all fatalities nationwide.
    
    Another 100,000 died from cancer during those 22 months.(…)”
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10516561/Ben-Fordham-exposes-data-shows-whats-really-causing-Covid-deaths.html
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:51pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    April-October 2020 saw 1000-1500 fewer deaths that average of same period over preceding 5 years due to absence of respiratory illness deaths in NZ. Omicron in NZ is officially predicted to kill less that that, ie less than normal number of annual respiratory pathogens do, and 80% of those that do die will be over 70 years old (ie entirely normal patterns of mortality).
    
    Stop buying into the covid fear mongering. If you are under 80 you are more likely to die in a car crash this year, and it’s likely not even going to be as bad as a normal flu season.
    
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    February 17, 2022 3:12pm
103PapPap

Hello Opie. Yesterday you published some figures from the MOH site which had the percentages of vaccinated v non-vaccinated for all the positive tests recorded.
I have searched the site but can’t find this.
Can you please show where this data came from?
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February 17, 2022 8:54am
- mandk
  
  Agreed.
  I have looked for that data a number of times.
  I did find it once, but the MoH website is so bad, you can’t find the same page twice.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:24am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    That’s deliberate policy mandk.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:42am
    - mandk
      
      I am sure it is.
      
      We couldn’t have the whole covid strategy being shown up as pointless, could we?
      
      Open and transparent, and all that.
      
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      February 17, 2022 10:50am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2umsr04CFTo

Why Does Russia Hate the West (and NATO) – TLDR News

A lot of the current dispute between Russia and Ukraine boils down to Putin’s dislike of NATO – so we thought it was worth unpacking why Russia hates NATO so much and what this means for the stability of the continent. [10:45]
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February 17, 2022 8:54am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Probably because NATO lied after the the fall of the Soviet Union and have moved closer and closer to the Russian border after promising not to encroach 1 inch.
  Imagine if this was the Russians in Cuba? We know how that turned out.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:01am
  - Nickc2
    
    Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule
    Perhaps Biden now wants to satisfy Putin’s wishes?
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:08am
    - mawm
      
      I wouldn’t trust one word that came out of the mouths of the top brass in NATO. They are trying to make themselves relevant in a world that has moved on since the Berlin Wall and the USSR collapse. Putin can see their plan to surround Russia with NATO allies and their provocation makes him restless, yet he is the only one that has any sense as to what a war between the West and Russia would be like. It is time to break this cycle of sabre rattling from the West (America and the UK) and work with a willing partner in Russia. So much could be achieved.
      
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      February 17, 2022 8:57pm
  - Dairy Flat
    
    I have read that when the USSR collapsed many of Putin’s fellow KGB officers (and his friends) lost their livelihoods, and that at a personal level this has been a big factor in his attitude to the West that should not be underestimated.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:32am
    - mawm
      
      Are you talking about the few who didn’t become oligarchs?//s
      
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      February 17, 2022 8:59pm
  - curry4me
    
    Yes I agree. It’s no surprise Russians are cynical about Western motives, and policy.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Ta1qd80T8

Sweat (La La Long) Ft. Prince Andrew
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February 17, 2022 8:55am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57qon3Ud5b0&t=107s
Freedom Convoy – #FreedomWeek starts Feb. 21 “Don’t go to work for 7 days!” #irnieracingnews Feb.16
The Freedom Convoy management team in Canada want a general strike. [1:51. If I wrote what I think of Trudope, I’d be banned for 99 to life.]
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February 17, 2022 8:55am
- Bridgenag
  
  I liked the “Its not left versus right, it is right v wrong”
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:34am
  - curry4me
    
    Yes, indeed. A perception I share.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:13pm
R

Yesterday’s Covid cases and their vaccination status compared to the previous day’s. All figures were sourced from the Health Ministry’s website, which provides daily updates:

Fully vaccinated = 910
Unvaccinated = 41
Partially vaccinated = -183
Children ineligible for vaccine = 386

(It’s unclear why the number of cases of those partially vaccinated would have decreased in 24 hours. The total number of partially vaccinated cases that have been hospitalised also decreased – weird.)

There’s been 18,508 cases of Covid since 16 August 2021; 14,613 of these cases were eligible for the vaccine. Among vaccine-eligible cases, 7,820 (53.5%) were fully vaccinated. It’s become evident that a large majority of new vaccine-eligible cases are fully vaccinated.

If the main purpose of vaccine mandates is to reduce the spread of the virus, it’s not working. That’s because fully vaccinated people are being infected in far greater numbers than are the unvaccinated and are a source of transmission. The protesters in Wellington might be the biggest rabble since Taine Randall’s All Blacks, but they know bullshit when they see it. It’s time to end the vaccine mandates.

In 2009, New Zealand experienced a flu pandemic. The Health Ministry concluded that an “estimated 18% of the NZ population (800,000) were infected with the virus during the first wave including one child in every three”. One in four preschoolers (1-4 years) were infected with the pandemic virus. Some 35 people died and more than 1100 were hospitalised.

When some commentators say: “New Zealand has done brilliantly during Covid”, they have a short memory (conveniently, they ignore all of the related costs). New Zealand did brilliantly in 2009, but without any lockdowns, vaccine mandates or passes. We did so without borrowing billions of dollars which will probably see cuts to health, education and welfare in the future.

In 2009, people weren’t fired from their jobs for not being vaccinated. Healthy, working people weren’t confined to their homes. We didn’t need Government handouts. We accepted that life imposes risks, and that the costs of taking a particular course of action can outweigh the benefits. We’ve come a long way in a decade.

It’s time to end the vaccine mandates.

https://www.health.govt.nz/publication/seroprevalence-2009-influenza-h1n1-pandemic-new-zealand
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February 17, 2022 9:05am
- MCōs
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Are you saying we should have done nothing?
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:45am
  - kowtow
    
    The old we shudda done nuttin’ trope .
    
    I haven’t come across anyone who reckoned that .
    
    Wash hands , social distancing , protect the vulnerable . That would have got us through w/o the horrendous costs , socially , mentally and financially .
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:25am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Hes saying “its time to end the vaccine mandates”.
    And he’s right. We should.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:26am
  - RightNow
    
    I suppose that’s a better way of phasing it than “so you’re saying we should have done nothing”.
    
    Speaking for myself I say we should have stuck to the pandemic plans we already had. They were after all prepared by experts in the field.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:31am
    - mawm
      
      Dropping the established pandemic plan was the first red flag.
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:04pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    MCōs – you obviously weren’t paying attention at the beginning, or you fell for the nonsensical pronouncements from the “single source of truth” and her bevy of “experts”.
    There were numerous very well qualified people both here and around the world who clearly stated the direction we took was wrong. That we should do what we normally do. Protect the vulnerable, prepare the hospitals, those at most risk take the required precautions.
    There is no magic injection, there is no magic pill. There never was. Our immune systems have been evolving to do the job since we first appeared on the planet. I have far greater faith in natural immunity than I will ever have in the most corrupt businesses in history who are driven only by profit.
    The response was never about health. It’s something else, something dark, that is becoming obvious as we watch the two weak links in this Schwab Global Young Leaders project stumbling. Who will crack first? Ardern or Trudeau? Doesn’t matter, they will both go and both will be remembered as the fascist dictators they are.
    
    Please let it be soon so we can start the healing process.
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:02am
    - mawm
      
      The “single source of truth” was the second red flag.
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:05pm
- 103PapPap
  
  Can you provide the specific pages that have the vaccinated v non-vaccinated data on the MOH web site please?
  I have searched the site and haven’t been able to find them.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:46am
  - R
    
    The MOH provide daily updates in case numbers. Have a look at the figures currently online and then compare them with the figures which will be there later today. You will need to subtract the older figures from the current ones. You will also need to note the older figures as they will be replaced by the current figures.
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#aug-2021
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:11am
- Albert_Ross
  
  But the main purpose of the vaccines isn’t “to reduce the spread of the virus”. It’s to reduce the number of people who get seriously sick from the virus. In that regard, it is working, not perfectly, but better than anything else we’ve got.
  
  Jacinda’s utter failure to even understand, let alone explain, this, or what ongoing segregation of vaccinated from non vaccinated is now supposed to be achieving, is becoming more and more blatant and embarrassing.
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:05pm
  - cmm
    
    “but better than anything else we’ve got.”
    
    Perhaps, but if so only marginally. Having proper Vit D (and Zinc etc) levels will provide you extremely good protection.
    
    If you lack Vit D and you lack a vaccination, then you’re chances are way worse.
    
    So to say there is only one way to address this is wrong.
    
    The science behind this has not been controversial for at least 50 years.
    
    But of course there’s not a peep about Vit D or obesity etc from the podium of truth.
    
    Perhaps vaccines are better (I doubt it), but Vit D has been available for decades and didn’t need trails or waivers from prosecution for their manufacturers.
    
    Better yet, Vit D has a raft of other health benefits: colon cancer to mental health, while the vaccine has no other health benefits and a bunch of side effects.
    
    Why didn’t we hear about Vit D BEFORE vaccines were available? This is really inexcusable.
    
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    February 17, 2022 3:33pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Many of us heard about Vitamin D. Just not from the New Zealand government. It was VACCINE. That’s it. Not take vitamin D, stop smoking, lose some weight.
      
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      February 17, 2022 4:40pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yup. And VitD3 levels are lowest for our maori, PI and other dark skinned population groups… you know … the ones successive governments have told us need extra help from the always benevolent state. This may or may not have been necessary before, but it’s sure as hell is today.
      
      Further, just 20mins of cardiovascular exercise each day, even of it results in zero weight loss, helps enhance the innate immune system.
      
      So get the VitD3, add Zinc and Magnesium to RDI levels and go for a brisk walk.
      
      It’s call agency.
      
      Approaching 0% of the vaxxed people I know have any interest in this. They’ve already been saved, apparently.
      
      Our public health officials appear spectacularly unable to grasp the simple idea that early treatment is essential, and that no quantity of meekly compliant shoulder presentations will solve this.
      
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      February 17, 2022 4:49pm
    - mawm
      
      cmm – banning known effective treatment (reduction in mortality) of acute viral illnesses was the third red flag (see above for 1 and 2). Vit D has been well known to reduce mortality in all cause respiratory infections.
      
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      February 17, 2022 9:11pm
Yvette

■ [The] Public Interest Journalism Fund ??PIJF?? has been established to preserve and enhance public interest journalism that would otherwise be at risk or lost due to the impact of COVID-19. It will support the production of journalistic content that is critical to an open, progressive democracy, and to protect jobs at a local, regional, and national level
https://d3r9t6niqlb7tz.cloudfront.net/media/documents/PIJF_Signed_MoU_between_TMP_and_NZOA.pdf

Prior to the establishment of this fund did anyone see media reports of actual media work hardship relating to covid, which would motivate the funding?
And since the fund’s establishment, apart from some television “reporters” having trouble removing masks – which is a dopey situation as they are most often standing alone, and the cameraperson does on shift between mask-on or mask-off – has anyone seen evidence of covid impinging on the media industry?

Didn’t think so.

Does it not have a dirty of material now to report that it didn’t have before covid?
What is any problem that any one else doesn’t face now?

(The Australian version is called the Public Interest Journalism Initiative – PIJI )
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February 17, 2022 9:11am
- Yvette
  
  Above second last sentence, “dirty” is an auto-correction of “dirth” which is a mis-spelling of “dearth” which in fact is opposite to the word intended, which was “glut” – an excessively abundant supply of something.”there is a glut of cars on the market” – or around Parliament.
  
  Media would seem to have no lack of material.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:28am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    dearth not dirth
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:39am
- curry4me
  
  I still don’t see why Stalinda is paying ‘journalists’ to shill for her. They’d do it gratis anyway.
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:16pm
dcrane

Anyone else seen citations like this? Trying to tell if it’s real:
https://twitter.com/CartlandDavid/status/1493942439366864897

Claims among other powers that enforcement can entail taking money from your bank acounts and preventing you from traveling overseas.
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February 17, 2022 9:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  Assuming it’s real … what the hell is ‘Covid Testing Non-Compliance’?
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:24am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Looks like its real – infringements
    https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-information-specific-audiences/covid-19-border-aviation-and-maritime-sector/covid-19-testing-infringement-notices#:~:text=The%20infringement%20process%20is%20set,has%20committed%2C%20an%20infringement%20offence.
    
    relateingt Testing orders ( several ) – Border,
    Port, MIQ workers etc
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-response-planning/covid-19-epidemic-notice-and-orders#required-testing
    
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    February 17, 2022 7:22pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  If real it is astonishing and confirmation, if needed, that this is nothing to do with health. There can’t be many left who still think Ardern is “kind and caring”. That mask is gone, she is a tyrant and a despot. Manipulative, coercive, bullying, narcissistic. No ability to empathise even though her fake persona lives off that lie.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Too kind, hope Jaspnda read this blog, or her staff.
    Maybe the spinners are keeping her uninformed? The ‘doesn’t need to know thing’ then we control her.
    H! and H2 are not gone
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:04pm
- cmm
  
  AFAIK that’s all pretty standard powers that the court has if you fail to pay a court-imposed fine of any kind.
  
  I doubt those conditions at the bottom are special CV19 conditions.
  
  Have a read here: https://www.justice.govt.nz/fines/about-fines/fines-enforcement/
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:51pm
  - dcrane
    
    Thanks…very interesting. I wonder if the taking of money from someone’s account requires a high level of escalation, or if it’s something they do readily.
    
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    February 17, 2022 4:06pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else that REALLY rips my panties….
people who speak with their mouth full 🙁
Someone needs to chip Mike Hosking.

This morning between 6:40 & 7 sounded like he was eating breakfast while conducting interviews!
Even used his tongue at one stage to dislodge something from a back tooth.

It doesn’t make for pleasant listening.

Just saying.
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February 17, 2022 9:13am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, why single out Hosking when every shop you enter has a muffled and sometimes unintelligible voice dribbling from behind their mask? I have overcome this annoyance by just browsing in retailers and shake my head when approached by a staff member. I have become expert at whizzing around stores like Briscoes until I find the items I have to purchase and then escape through the checkout. My need for retail dialogue is minimised but then so is my browsing and impulse buying.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:04am
  - krazykiwi
    
    How about this: “Covid face masks contributed to death of epileptic man when junior NHS doctor misheard ’15mg’ as ’50mg’ before giving patient a fatal dose of anti-seizure drug”.
    
    Yes, there is something worse than a seller misunderstanding your donut order.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:27am
curry4me

There was some speculation here yesterday that some of those making critical comments about David Seymour, and ACT were Labour trolls. Not me. I was an ACT supporter from the beginning. Act left me. I didn’t leave them. Advocating vaccinating children against a cold was the bad enough. Dissing the truckers protest was the last straw.
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February 17, 2022 9:14am
- dcrane
  
  For me it was reading that every ACT MP supported the so-called “conversion therapy” bill.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:46am
  - Matt Long
    
    For me it was their support of abortion up till birth and no pain relief, leaving the baby born after an abortion attempt to die.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:26pm
emmess

Hey, what’s going on with the Russia-Ukraine war?
It definitely started yesterday, right?
The Biden Admin and the media told us, there was no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gse3mbg5Yn0
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February 17, 2022 9:19am
- kowtow
  
  Their “intelligence” was very specific , just like the justification for Iraq II .
  
  Fool me once and all that.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:19am
- mawm
  
  Aah! you just don’t get it. They averted a war, that’s how good they are!//s
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:17pm
graham

Jacinda Ardern, 22/12/2020:

“What do we teach our kids?” she asked Sir John. “If you ask someone what they want for their kids when they’re older … we want our kids to be happy; we want them to feel loved and supported; we want them to be treated well by others; and we want them to treat others well. If those are the values that are so important to us that we teach them to our kids, then we should expect those same values from our leaders.”

She says it’s a simple formula – but doesn’t always translate well into the expectations people hold for their leaders.

“Something happened along the way, where we said kids need to be kind but leaders need to be staunch, aggressive, show no mercy and definitely show no weakness. That just doesn’t sit well with me.“

Trevor Mallard, 2022: “Put the sprinklers on and soak the buggers! Turn up Barry Manilow! I want them to be uncomfortable!”

Jacinda Ardern, 2022: “…”
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February 17, 2022 9:29am
Gertie

Can anyone confirm the Maori that own the realestate under Parliament have or are in the process of evicting government?
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February 17, 2022 9:31am
- Inandout
  
  Gertie, Labour woud crumble and suddenly discover millions of dollars hidden somewhere in the ‘covid fund’. They will not, under any circumstances, actively oppose a Maori claim.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:09am
- westernScientest
  
  It is clearly something that was just made up on the fly. If it was the case, do you really think that they wouldn’t have ‘evicted’ previous governments?
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:15am
- cmm
  
  Whether they really own it or not is beside the point. They can “feel” they own it and demand a top-up.
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:54pm
Gertie

https://m.facebook.com/jovigal77/posts/10160146988951255?d=m I have heard this elsewhere too
[Mod : we generally prefer that there is some brief description of what the link is about] This link discusses the Maori tribe that are evicting government.
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February 17, 2022 9:34am
- Nickc2
  
  Should be interesting. Bring it on eh bro//
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:59am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  iwi who own parliament land are serving parliament with a trespass notice.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:41am
MCōs

Referring to the situation in Canada

“I’m risking everything I have,” said Jake Klassen, 39, who has been a truck driver for nearly two decades and drives three weeks of the month hauling loads to the U.S. as an owner-operator. “I want to be able to have my own choice.”
Klassen has two campers and his black semi trailer at the Emerson blockade. They could potentially be seized; Klassen described Trudeau’s move to invoke emergency powers as a “scare tactic” so “they can take everything from us,” he said.
Klassen said he hasn’t been able to visit his nine-year-old daughter in months. She is receiving palliative care at St. Amant, a care residence in Winnipeg, but due to restrictions that require visitors to be fully vaccinated, Klassen and his wife can’t see her.
“This is something worth fighting for,” he said.

So the dying nine year old kid wont see her parents again because they refuse to get vaccinated.
https://fortune.com/2022/02/15/canada-freedom-convoy-protesters-block-2-more-bridges-to-us-justin-trudeau-new-emergencies-act-powers/
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February 17, 2022 9:35am
- dcrane
  
  Your post reads as a sympathetic story against the coercion. Despite overwhelming evidence that the shots don’t stop infections and might even increase them, that institution is willing to separate a child from her parents so it can coerce them to take a risky injection. What an outrage.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:50am
- Cinematic
  
  Exactly. Isn’t it outrageous some pompous politicians would put any family in such a predicament?
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:12am
- kowtow
  
  How many thousands did not get to see their dying parents due to health fascism around kungflu ?
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:20am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I’m one of them.
    We are all vaccinated too.
    Still couldn’t go.
    So Mum died alone.
    
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    February 17, 2022 2:24pm
    - kowtow
      
      AoR
      
      Sorry to hear that.
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:49pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Me too
      
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      February 17, 2022 7:46pm
    - [email protected]
      
      Also so sorry to hear that. No-one can understand how horrible that experience must be/have been for you. My sincere condolences
      
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      February 17, 2022 7:54pm
bythesea

If you liked a V for Vendetta, you might like this little mash up about Canada [1:40]
https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1493990119912742913
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February 17, 2022 9:36am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/127798096/wellington-to-get-300-new-public-homes-in-296m-development
Ho-hum: yet another diversion from the government in order to deflect attention from their pathetic performance.
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February 17, 2022 9:51am
- mandk
  
  Promises mean nothing.
  
  The country wants delivery, and it’s not happening.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:53am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Note that the 1970 Ian Athfield-designed Arlington Apartments were judged to be disfunctional 10 years ago & have been torn down. Just 40 years old – practically brand new. What a terrible waste.
  
  It has to be said that many of Ian’s designs, daring & darling of the Lefties that he was, have not stood the test of time. Think the Wgtn public library, the former Telecom building (pale green tiles) in Manners St, one or two others that I can’t be buggered looking up …
  
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  February 17, 2022 7:55pm
tknorriss

A good reason to get vaccinated.

These links suggest that a combination of vaccination and actual Covid leads to super-immunity with antibodies 10x more potent against Covid.

Has been shown in several studies and confirmed in the real world.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-scientists-say-a-covid-infection-after-vaccination-triggers-super-immunity/MRTMRO73NMUUXNWVI6337NTMQU/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220210-the-cells-that-can-give-you-super-immunity
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February 17, 2022 10:08am
- Cinematic
  
  ‘Super immunity’. Please.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:06am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    “Super immunity”.
    Scientist said it. Sounds awesome.
    4th jab must be even better. Super-duper?
    …..Yet it doesn’t stop jabbed and booster people getting Covid multiple times.
    Not that I care much. Well over it all.
    I am more likely to die walking to get a pie during my lunchbreak, braving traffic, than I am from Covid.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:00pm
DeepBlue

I’m not sure too many people, other than Karens, and mandated employees are going to get tested and fill out the close contact location forms. If they do I suspect a lot of mates will be getting a holiday together to go and play, and a lot of people might just say they’ve been to Parliament.
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February 17, 2022 10:12am
- Gertie
  
  Exactly what I thought which is why I asked if anyone knew anything about it. Getting the whole bunch of pollies down there evicted just seems too good to be true of course. Someone suggested they move to the Auckland Islands.
  Chathams?
  Eketahuna at best.
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:08am
BananaLlama

Alot of talk about how intimidating protestors are but none about the government and it supporters calling for the army to go in and clear them out or for the police to bash them senseless.
Well and truly over the MSM bias in this country.
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February 17, 2022 10:14am
ClanMcleod

Djokovic – a man of principle in a world full of fakes, liars, pretenders, frauds and even worse, fascist tyrants like Trudeau and Ardern.

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/02/15/djokovic-id-rather-never-play-a-grand-slam-again-than-be-forced-to-have-a-covid-vaccine/

Nice to see we still have some to look up to. Now to get rid of the tyrants.
This is nothing to do with health.
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February 17, 2022 10:20am
- mawm
  
  What happened to all those stories that he’d gone off and got vaccinated? More MSM lies? Silly me – of course they were.
  
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  February 17, 2022 9:24pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying Auckland towies were offered 15k plus accommodation & expenses to go to Wellington.
Word on the street is most turned it down rather than ‘scab’ on their mates down there.
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February 17, 2022 10:24am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Towies are more moral than MPs. Who would have thought?
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:55am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  And that is the part Labour politicians cannot comprehend.
  The Towies have ethical standards. The Labour Party politicians don’t.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:56am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The other thing not a lot of people know…..if you jump in your car when they hook it up on the truck, they’re NOT ALLOWED to tow it!
    Sat in mine once for nearly two hours behind the Town Hall after some nark potted me for parking in the Mayors car park.
    
    Got away scot-free 😀
    
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    February 17, 2022 11:24am
    - [email protected]
      
      Do the military have the same constraints?
      
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      February 17, 2022 7:43pm
Yvette

Parliament protest
… Tracy Watkins, editor of the Sunday Star Times, can’t see when or how it will end.
… Watkins tells The Detail she worries about what happens to the protesters when they finally quit and go home, and the thousands of others on the fringes of society who feel disenfranchised by vaccine mandates. Without a solution to their concerns, she fears they will become more and more radicalised. – RNZ
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/new-zealand-journalists-speak-on-covering-the-anti-mandate-protests-at-parliament.html

If no Resolution transpires. will protestors go home with some degree of Veteran PTSD – well, at least, not a great sense of mental wellbeing and a development on “National leader Christopher Luxon say[ing] the protest at Parliament is “symptomatic of immense frustration” in New Zealand”
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February 17, 2022 10:26am
Benedict Yu

Who David Seymour chooses to meet with is not Jacinda’s business.

Ministers in her government have met criminal gang leaders.
52 1
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February 17, 2022 10:50am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  That’s just one gang meeting another.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:56am
Maggie Pie

Just days after Cuddles Coster’s ongoing threats to tow Protestors came to nothing, he is said to be seriously considering Trev’s suggestion that he arm front-line Officers with Super Soakers.

https://www.t3.com/au/features/best-water-gun
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February 17, 2022 11:09am
- mandk
  
  Another stupid suggestion from Mallard.
  
  It was pissing down in Wellington last weekend, and it did nothing to deter the protesters.
  
  Everything Mallard does or says convinces me the protesters will win.
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:46pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Isn’t he Cousin Cuddles Coster?
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:53pm
Marcus Vinicius

A Green Party MP wants a “Ministry for Rainbow Communities”

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/16/green-party-calls-for-a-ministry-for-rainbow-communities/

Really!
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February 17, 2022 11:29am
- westernScientest
  
  Do they think that is where the trough of gold is?
  
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  February 17, 2022 11:43am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Rainbows End.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:37pm
- rockape
  
  No problem with that as long as we have a ministry for straight white guys who like shagging women !
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:01pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    equaliddy.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:17pm
    - cmm
      
      Do, surely you mean: equi-laddy
      
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      February 17, 2022 3:57pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I guess the Ministry of Silly Walks is already taken by Monty Python.
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:11pm
  - Marcus Vinicius
    
    The was also in a Two Ronnies episode Ronnie Barker did a skit dressed up as a half man/half women from the Ministry of Sexual Equality where he takes the piss out of what is now known as PC.
    
    It is on YouTube.
    
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    February 17, 2022 1:49pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Idiots.
  
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  February 17, 2022 4:30pm
DeepBlue

My equivalence for the shop keepers and residents disrupted by the Wellington Pro Fest is the City Rail Loop construction: noisy, baracades, carparks blocked off, no shoppers, no financial support and the kicker…. the government took years to acknowledge let alone talk to these victims (shop keepers and residents) about the impacts of the govn policy.
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February 17, 2022 11:40am
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING

Former stripper Lunden Roberts hits Hunter Biden with Paternity Suit.
Biden says… “no recollection of having sex with Roberts”

Settles anyway 😛

https://trib.al/kF2f9rp
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February 17, 2022 11:51am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  What is it with Roberts women?
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:48pm
- All_on_Red
  
  The interesting revelation in that link is about how Hunter Biden has been investigated for over a year and people are testifying to a Grand Jury.
  I know Mikenmild is a fervid supporter of Butt Hunter so he will no doubt be perturbed.
  
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  February 17, 2022 2:16pm
- cmm
  
  Since Hunter has already claimed that he was often so wasted that he was snorting parmesan cheese, any defence he tries to make saying that he doesn’t remember something is going to be pretty pathetic.
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:59pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Paternity is easy to prove, or otherwise, these days
  
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  February 17, 2022 7:59pm
- Pavel
  
  Hey Maggie Pie, it’s late but I hope you read this. Here is a fun FACT for the day.
  In America, right now, there is a 4 year old child who’s mother is a stripper, dad is a crack cocaine smoking addict and their Granddad is the president of the United States of America.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:34pm
Reid

I want to pose a question.

Dr Malone on the latest warroom right at the end said he’s currently in DC to meet with some GOP Senators. He didn’t want to name the Senator who’d organised the meeting but probably it was Johnson, but there will be others there too.

Malone said that some of these Senators still think they’re on the right side of history, they apparently think they’re doing a good job for the American people and that their actions to date on this pandemic have been pretty much OK. Malone said his job at the meeting was to nudge them gently toward the actual science rather the “science” those Senators have been relying on, to date.

Here’s the link, go right to the end, Malone’s comment is the last one before the show closes.

https://rumble.com/vv440i-ep-1644-dr.-malone-explains-it-all-to-you-barstow-trucker-convoy-organizers.html

So here’s my question. How come even people like GOP Senators with good intentions and vast research resources at their fingertips, aren’t seeing what is dog-ball obvious to at least 25% of the populations in every single Western country including NZ, a % that grows by the day. This % crosses all IQ ranges, all demographics, all races, all creeds, all socio-economic groups, all social classes.

Why are politicians of this calibre with the resources they have, not seeing this?

I’m not just talking about the science, which is more than obviously incorrect from the offical standpoint vs the real, in fact, actual truth science, I’m also talking about the also dog-ball obvious fact every single Western nation’s political systems are in a state of fundamental upheaval, and that this is not normal. Yet politicians are behaving as if they think once this period is over things will return to normal and the world will return to pre-December 2019 conditions. Why don’t they see that we are never going back? Why don’t they realise we are in a state of change so massive that we are at a civilisational cross-road, where one path is a China-style totalitarian dictatorship and the other path is a complete rebuild of our educational, legal and political frameworks, which will have no place for those currently emplaced in said frameworks who have attempted to impose the Chinese model on us all?

Why isn’t this obvious to more than 25% of us and growing every day? When are the 75% of people going to wake up and see what is happening? Why don’t they believe that what I described above is even happening? Why do they think once this is over the world will return to normal and things will continue as before?

That’s my question, and I know we have a lot of people here who are in that 75% and we have some here who are in the 25%. I’m genuinely interested in hearing mostly from the 75% about what they think about what’s going on, and why they believe whatever their answer is, to that question.
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February 17, 2022 11:54am
- Lucia Maria
  
  You haven’t had any takers for this one, Reid.
  
  Am not surprised, in that your question is really to the people who are still ignoring what is happening around them. Therefore, they won’t acknowledge anything is wrong. To do that is to open up all to all the consequences that acknowledgement engenders. It’s a lot. Or too much, even.
  
  Have some knowledge of this after talking to several people who know something is wrong, but just want to live their lives, so want to ignore everything. It puts those people into too much pain and something else as well.
  
  I don’t know, maybe it can get turned around with those who see. Maybe.
  
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  February 17, 2022 6:39pm
  - Reid
    
    I think we’re watching human nature play out Lucia, but it’s sad, because it’s a literal enactment of the “history repeats when you forget it” maxim.
    
    The Nazi and both commie revolutions could have been turned around before darkness descended if people like our silent fellow travellers had joined those of us who see.
    
    There’s that famous quote from The Gulag Archipelago:
    
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    
    The concerned but as yet silent people need to recognise that unlike any other time in past history, if the whole world descends into darkness, there will be no beacons of freedom anywhere plus there will be monstrous technology permitting no escape.
    
    It’s not a movie folks, it’s really just round the corner. If you love your children and grand children, don’t let this happen on your watch, they won’t thank you, they will curse you.
    
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    February 17, 2022 8:29pm
  - mawm
    
    There are too many things to consider.
    
    People are psychologically unwilling to confront these massive changes and the impact they will have on their lives. I’m sure there are many who have been through this kind of thing (Sovietisation of Eastern Europe, Pol Pot, Venezuela, etc) who’d be able to describe how they denied reality, and then it happened. Solzhenitsyn’s famous quote “We didn’t love freedom enough…” comes to mind.
    
    Ignorance, especially when the only source of information is government propaganda. This is huge especially in the younger generations. Ignorance about communism, socialism and fascism and their destruction in the 20th century.
    
    Disbelief that it could actually happen. Disbelief in man’s inhumanity to man. Disbelief in the narcissistic nature of the wealthy, and their belief in their intellectual superiority (Bill Gates).
    
    Just plain old stupidity! I wouldn’t rate the American (and most other Western) politicians as being deep thinkers.
    
    Bribery and corruption – American politicians especially only say what they have been told to by those who pay them.
    
    Reid – I really enjoy listening to Malone. Every podcast/video with him teaches me something.
    
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    February 17, 2022 10:02pm
    - mawm
      
      Apologies for the Solzhenitsyn quote – I hadn’t seen your reply to Lucia Maria.
      
      You are so right – we are heading into dark times. The socialists/communists are relentless and their march through our lives inexorable.
      
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      February 17, 2022 10:10pm
Jack5

For supporters of Amnesty International Aotearoa New Zealand Inc … (erroneously posted today first on yesterday’s GD). [Fixed]

Gatecrashers into Australia being held in detention should be on their way to New Zealand within a week or two.

Will they get priority in MIQ? Do bears poop in the forest?

Note in the report in Stuff:

Amnesty International Australia refugee adviser Graham Thom said he hoped the deal to settle 150 refugees per year from Australia’s offshore detention regime would be announced soon.

“New Zealand’s generous offer has been on the table since 2013 – it’s encouraging to hear it’s so close to being finalised, but now the government has to act and get it done,” Dr Thom said.

I donated to Amnesty when it’s overarching task was support of people persecuted for their political beliefs. That was before it was AWakened.

This will likely trigger a defence from MCos.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300519747/refugee-deal-between-australia-and-new-zealand-could-be-weeks-away
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February 17, 2022 12:01pm
oldfella

Michael Wood in the Herald, says that underlying the protests is a ‘river of filth’.
“We feel for those people. But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace. There is a river of anti-Semitism. There is a river of Islamophobia. There is a river of threats to people who work in this place and our staff. Those are things that we should not in any way be condoning.
He said there was “a river of genuine fascism in parts of the event” and urged colleagues “to not give succour and comfort to an emergent and dangerous far-right movement.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-convoy-protest-govt-in-crisis-meeting-over-protest-mp-michael-wood-speaks-out-on-dark-undercurrent/SIJM63D33UAUZVXNZXJINA3N5I/
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February 17, 2022 12:11pm
- curry4me
  
  Ah, the ever lovin, ever lyin left being themselves.
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:54pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Oh dear…..sigh
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:19pm
- BananaLlama
  
  They are trying to justify the use of state force and not come across as being utter hypocrites.
  ‘See look they are Nazis so now we can bash the stuffing out them.
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:40pm
- Cinematic
  
  What a juvenile speech
  
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  February 17, 2022 3:09pm
Albert_Ross

Fortunately perhaps, Jacinda is too stupid to see how easy and politically astute it would now be to “declare victory and leave”.Thus:

Thanks to the actions of my government and the team of five million, we’ve now reduced the risk of getting seriously sick from covid to the point where our health services should be able to cope with those few that do, so now we can get back to normal, rah rah I’ve just won the next election.

Hope she don’t read this!
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February 17, 2022 12:16pm
Fuzzysnuggleduck

I was just on a Zoom call, and there was a guy in another office (although couldn’t see anyone behind or moving around – all offices are pretty empty these days)….and he had a surgical mask on during the call, with a black stretchy band around his chin for extra snuggness.
Why he has the camera on, I dont know.
He then took off the strap from one side to drink from a water battle….but then returned the mask back on, and adjusted the seperate band snuggly around his chin again.
I don’t know they guy, but might enquire via his colleagues if that is a policy in that company’s office, or if he is doing his own thing.

LOL< and in the wake of events being canned recently, I had seen jokes around "email is OK, but make sure you wear a mask at your keyboard".
If that really is a thing for the uber-fearful, some people probably don't like to be mocked.
HA!

Now – there is one of the folk that will be telling us 80,000 lives were saved by our awesome response in Aotearoa, and that Covid is a disease that has depopulated the European continent.
The only "long-Covid" I think is going to be seen by the less hysterical citizens, are the fear-obsessed fools that can't readjust to the previous normality.
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February 17, 2022 12:16pm
westernScientest

haha labours Michael Wood thinks the protesters are “anti-Semitic”, ‘Islamophobic’ and ‘fascists’

Word have no meaning

“But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace. There is a river of anti-Semitism. There is a river of islamophobia. There is a river of threats to people who work in this place and our staff.
“Those are things that we should not in any way be condoning, things that we should be apologists for, things that we should be overlooking with the rhetoric that it’s all just good people and maybe we should talk about it and maybe we should put the mandates up for negotiation.
“I would say that there is a river of genuine fascism in parts of the event that we see out the front of this Parliament today. I just urge colleagues in this House—decent and honourable members of the centre-right parliamentary parties in this Parliament—that a lot is actually on them to not give succour and comfort to an emergent and dangerous far right movement. I just ask those members to reflect upon that.
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February 17, 2022 12:16pm
- Matt Long
  
  There is a lot of projection by politicians, media and Karen’s on the protesters right now.
  
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  February 17, 2022 12:34pm
  - curry4me
    
    Yes, the workers of the world unite, and the ‘Workers party’ think they’re revolting.
    
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    February 17, 2022 12:59pm
    - kowtow
      
      throughout much of left wing revolutionary history , the ‘workers’ were just a convenient vehicle for lower middle class , but relatively well to do , types to climb to power .
      
      marx ,Engels ,the initiators of the french revolution , lenin and mao .
      
      Those darlings of student revolters both Che Lynch of ubiquitous poster fame and his well fed confederate Castro were from wealthy middle class stock.
      
      Plenty of other examples I’m sure .
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:24pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Every revolutionary is a closet aristocrat
        
        12 1
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        February 17, 2022 1:51pm
  - kowtow
    
    tv1 villifying them for lose of business in Wellington and odt doing exactly the same for the very small Dunedin one , without a skerrick of evidence.
    
    The real harm to business is council ,govt and corporate work from home policy that kills city and town centres .
    
    Where’s the media pardy on that ?
    
    12 2
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    February 17, 2022 1:08pm
    - kowtow
      
      sorry here’s the odt item
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/octagon-occupation-protest-impacts-businesses
      
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      February 17, 2022 1:16pm
- krazykiwi
  
  My God. What nonsense. He’s clearly seen Trudeau and decided to himself enter the lectern-thumping, we-the-nobles speech competition. I can just see him, clutching the lapel of his academicals with one hand, and gesticulating enthusiastically with the other, while making sure his best side was to the camera.
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:24pm
- Yabster
  
  what a dropkick- he has short mans syndrome…
  
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  February 17, 2022 2:20pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    vertically challenged good if standing on piles of dosh….
    
    4 1
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    February 17, 2022 3:11pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You often find a lot of short guys forget they’re short.
    
    I like to remind them 😀
    
    8 1
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    February 17, 2022 3:40pm
- alex Masterley
  
  If he is trying to chanel Enoch Powell he is failing miserably.
  
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  February 17, 2022 4:18pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  It’s an extraordinary statement. Words fail me.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:01pm
- cjn
  
  Who is Michael Wood? You say he is Labour but is there anything else? He sounds deranged.
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:30pm
Scooter

Noticed Jacinda keeping her arms and hands firmly in check, has she been told that arm waving, clapping etc is a real vote turn off.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-todays-cases-positivity-rate-edging-close-to-who-benchmark/T5CEVXKLRSD5HKPRQW3OFMR32M/
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February 17, 2022 12:43pm
Nickc2

The US Covid Money-go-Round. There be lots and lots of money to be made by all concerned except the poor mug who has been mandated to make the sacrifice.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2022/02/project-veritas-hidden-camera-on-big-noting-fda-official.html
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February 17, 2022 1:20pm
Michael

Can’t see where anyone has mentioned the latest Curia poll, perhaps I missed a comment, regardless, here it is. Act well down. Kiwiblog needs to update.
nzherald.co.nz/business/tpucuria-political-poll-national-closes-gap-to-labour-with-minor-parties-losing-ground/HMV5SLDP5Y45VOJDYYPZWP5T

[ Oh dear: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2022/02/taxpayers_union_curia_february_2022_poll.html ]
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February 17, 2022 1:23pm
I remember when

Covid-19: 1573 daily community cases reported in New Zealand.
Also 15 cases reported at the border today.
Thank goodness we are controlling those case from overseas.

What are Vaccination passports and MIQ actually controlling.
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February 17, 2022 1:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  From here it’s about about 4 weeks to peak if Aussies are any guide, hit the Vit D, C, Zinc, and Quercetin if you have it:
  https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-12-01..latest&facet=none&uniformYAxis=0&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=NZL~AUS
  
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  February 17, 2022 1:49pm
- mandk
  
  Nothing.
  
  Cases appear to be growing at the rate of about 20%-25% a day.
  
  This means they will double every three and a half to four days.
  
  9 0
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  February 17, 2022 2:33pm
- westernScientest
  
  current hospitalisation rate: 0.77%. 0 in ICU.
  of course its less than that because lots of people wont be tested
  
  12 1
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  February 17, 2022 2:54pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    none-sense …… they will only test to get paid holidays
    
    8 1
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    February 17, 2022 3:13pm
- surfing
  
  Time to disband MIQ and traffic lights… that I can agree.
  
  7 0
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  February 17, 2022 6:10pm
Maggie Pie

‘What’s particularly galling for me is the mind control Ardern has exerted over the population….’

https://perspectivemag.co.uk/from-saint-to-sinner/
20 1
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February 17, 2022 1:28pm
- Paulus
  
  53% of the voting population voted for her at the last election, so let them eat cake.
  
  13 0
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  February 17, 2022 2:02pm
- krazykiwi
  
  From the article… the author having twice voted for Ardern:
  
  What’s particularly galling for me is the mind control Ardern has exerted over the population. Coming back here, I’m shocked at how few have lost their faith, and baffled by the self-congratulatory mood that pervades the country. After two years of sermonising from Ardern and nowhere to drink other than from the government fountainhead, New Zealanders have turned into a nation of self-congratulatory, cavorting maenads.
  
  Mea culpa. In voting for Mother Teresa, I unwittingly ushered Caligula into office. The parallels are there: noble and moderate for a period, admired all over the world “from the rising to the setting sun”. Our esteemed leader has become self-absorbed, cruel and dangerous.
  
  23 1
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  February 17, 2022 2:23pm
  - dcrane
    
    wow extra points for “maenads” 🙂
    
    My 2017 vote for Ardern ranks up there with electing Cheney as USA VP in 2000, as far as regret goes. In both cases, I was ignorant of key past associations.
    
    9 1
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    February 17, 2022 4:10pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Agreed. I had to look that one up
      
      4 1
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      February 17, 2022 7:52pm
I remember when

Isn’t great that the party, whose very lifeblood was the result of protesting and disrupting the rights of others, should suddenly find protests are undemocratic.
Is now the time to remember the Waterfront Strike and bring in the Mounted Constabulary.
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February 17, 2022 1:45pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

If we were to take just two examples at random…
say Golriz and Ricardo from the Greens.

How many hours each week would someone earning a ‘basic-wage’ have to toil, in order to pay enough tax so between that pair of those useless bludgers, they can continue to pull 400k in salaries each year?

Asking for a friend.
28 1
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February 17, 2022 2:02pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Someone paying 20k tax would take about 17 people to pay JUST their salaries
  
  11 0
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  February 17, 2022 2:29pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Let alone what their idiot policies cost.
    
    10 0
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    February 17, 2022 4:15pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  As backbench MPs they get nothing like 400 k. Try 180 k.
  
  But I agree with your point.
  
  11 1
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  February 17, 2022 4:28pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’ll try posting in hanzi for yu next time Bene 😀
    
    5 2
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    February 17, 2022 4:34pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    $180k goes a long way in Mexico.
    
    5 0
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    February 17, 2022 4:36pm
DeepBlue

After all the negative comments on Harvard Facebook announcement, Harvard should cancel Jacinda.
31 0
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February 17, 2022 2:22pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  NEGATIVE that is an understatement. Whole load of Kiwis dipped their pens in vitriol and let rip
  
  18 0
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  February 17, 2022 3:20pm
- All_on_Red
  
  She’s not really going there to talk to the students.
  More like pitch to the Donors which give to the Harvard Hedge Fund which happens to own a School.
  
  11 1
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  February 17, 2022 5:04pm
- [email protected]
  
  You have to wonder if the Harvard students listening to Jacina Ardern are allowed to question her.
  
  If so, I am keen to see the questions and the responses.
  
  Harvard students are presumably above average intelligence. Hopefully this is true and we will soon see. Harvard’s reputation is on the line.
  
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  February 17, 2022 7:12pm
Maggie Pie

I just took a few minutes out of my otherwise busy schedule to watch a little of Question Time.
Anyone else like me absolutely sick & tired of hearing about ‘Child Poverdy’ ?

It’s like there’s nothing else happening in the country! SHEESH.
16 1
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February 17, 2022 3:12pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Oh and something else I was going to mention…..
  
  Looked like Andrew Little and David Parker use the same hairdresser 😀
  
  9 1
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  February 17, 2022 3:26pm
Harry Knuts

is it cynical of me to think that the timing of Taxinda’s border opening and within days/weeks she got a full international itinery booked even a speech at Harvard – or just coincidence?
12 0
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February 17, 2022 3:48pm
fightingtemeraire

If you want to protest about Jacinda speaking at Harvard then email the Vice President

[email protected]
10 1
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February 17, 2022 3:50pm
Warren

Matt King plans to launch new political party.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics.html
Here you are all you disgruntled punters on here former MP Matt King will be looking for members to join his new political party once it’s up and running.
6 1
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February 17, 2022 3:50pm
Hugh Jarse

Apparently Trevor Mallard said of the protest “the biggest collection of ferals I have seen” – that really surprised me, I thought he attended caucus?
16 0
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February 17, 2022 4:15pm
kowtow

HDPA saying schools having problems cos teachers are not essential workers .

Now this mob of muppets have had 2 years to plan , or at least the summer break.

Why didn’t they study Sweden’s response .

They kept as many schools open as they could , why , cos they said society doesn’t stop cos of kung flu , that essential workers , emergency workers had to be able to work to keep things running and if they had to go home to baby sit , then things wouldn’t work.

Well sit back folks , pop some corn ,and watch as more schools close more and more parents get taken out of the work force . Truck drivers , nurses , doctors , supermarket folk , power companies , sewerage workers , firemen , coppers .

Etc

You can’t make this up.
13 1
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February 17, 2022 4:31pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Swedish physicians wrote in a letter published in the New England Journal of Medicine in February 2021:
  
  “Despite Sweden’s having kept schools and preschools open, we found a low incidence of severe Covid-19 among schoolchildren and children of preschool age during the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.
  
  Among the 1.95 million children who were 1 to 16 years of age, 15 children had Covid-19, MIS-C, or both conditions and were admitted to an ICU, which is equal to 1 child in 130,000… No child with Covid-19 died.”
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:37pm
Warren

Crown Accounts still beating forecasts by Billions – Grant Robertson.
Tax revenue was $1.5 billion above forecast at $51 billion, due to better-than- expected corporate profits and GST returns,while core Crown Expenses stood at $62 billion lower before the HYEFU forecast.
Finance Minister Grant Robertson said”betterthan expected results showed the strength of the economy as predictions in response to the delta outbreak were eased.
However the Crown Accounts have tracked well ahead of Treasury forcasts since the beginning of the Pandemic, prompting some opposition Politician’s to question the accuracy of the forcasts.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/crown-accounts-still-beating-forecasts-by-billions/JBEV5F2IAVYHDK7445QGR2CNVA/
I would suggest that the opposition Politician’s would have good reason to question the accuracy of the Finance Minister figures.
5 0
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February 17, 2022 4:34pm
krazykiwi

As at 5pm today, Kiwibloggers have donated over $5000 towards the costs of feeding & supporting the protestors. Outstanding generosity and unity of spirit. Very humbling.
26 1
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February 17, 2022 5:00pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Is there a bank account to contribute?
  
  5 0
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  February 17, 2022 5:03pm
  - DimChappie
    
    Not sure if this is allowed but try profest.co,nz and hit `donate’ button.
    
    0 0
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    February 18, 2022 4:05am
  - bronny1
    
    Email kk. Message on about the 12 th in GD
    
    0 0
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    February 18, 2022 7:51am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And I see where the Police Commissioner expressed concern …. “he is so worried about calling in the NZDF for fear of causing damage”, that he has suggested to the National Security Committee, “it may be more expedient to have Fulton Hogan build a road AROUND the protestors vehicles”
  
  10 1
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  February 17, 2022 5:21pm
- curry4me
  
  Well done us. Thanks fpr organizing it. Anything to give Stalinda the finger. Oh yeah, and do the right thing.
  
  10 1
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  February 17, 2022 6:49pm
Sparrow

Ask the Defence Minister how many long serving and decorated defence personnel have left the services because of the mandate.
7 0
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February 17, 2022 5:23pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300520421/wellington-iwi-leader-calls-for-political-solution-to-end-protests
This is NOTHING to do with any sort of maori / non-maori issue.
It is totally wrong to inject this sort of argument into the event.
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February 17, 2022 5:51pm
krazykiwi

Across the ditch:

The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) cannot rule out four or five doses for COVID-19 vaccines for Australians to be “up to date.”

The chair for ATAGI, Nigel Crawford said that his organisation will continue to monitor data from other countries administering four doses at the senate hearing on Feb. 16.

ATAGI announced a change of definition for “fully vaccinated” from two doses to three doses on Feb. 10, and the Australians who have yet to receive their third have 6 months’ to get their vaccinations.

You see…

It’s not two weeks to flatten the curve.

It’s not border closure for a few months.

It’s not a a couple of jabs to get your life back (or to have a summer)

What it is is submission. Full, total and unquestioning submission to the controllers of the narrative who have their eyes set on control of you. Of us. Of all of us.

Compliance is the death of bodily sovereignty. It is the end of freedom. It is a continuation of the hamster wheel of lies.
16 2
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February 17, 2022 6:01pm
- surfing
  
  Covid will mutate each year, there will be an annual covid vaccine just like the flu jab.
  
  Your points about controlling the people are just conspiratorial nonsense espoused by fringe elements with mummy and daddy authority issues. Probably don’t like paying taxes either.
  
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  February 17, 2022 6:09pm
  - bronny1
    
    Who would like paying taxes when we see the utter waste.
    I’d be happy to pay taxes if the recipients got as much value out of it as I do.
    
    1 0
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    February 18, 2022 7:53am
Warren

How can Andrew Little remain Health
Minister when he doesn’t take time to know 10,000 health worker are going on strike.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/covid-19-andrew-little-blindsided-by-news-10-000-healthcare-workers-will-go-on-strike.htmlp
You have to be as thick as pig shit to be blindsided by the media that a strike is going to take place.
15 1
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February 17, 2022 6:49pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Who do you have in mind that could take over and do a better job?
  
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  February 17, 2022 7:37pm
westernScientest

So the deal according to all of the MPs is: stop protesting and we might talk to you. Fn ludicrous, this will just piss them off more. And Seymour is trying to treat it as a win.

Now if it was just, remove the cars and we can talk that would be fine, but they include remove the tents and stop ‘intimidating’ people. Basically go away and be quite and we might possibly consider gracing you with our divine presents.

I would actually be supportive if they were like: move the cars and we can talk. Have none of them ever negotiated anything before?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300520438/political-parties-make-jointstatement-to-protesters-we-wont-talk-until-you-clear-roads
13 1
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February 17, 2022 6:54pm
- Southern Raider
  
  What the hell is Seymour up to?
  
  Yesterday grew some balls and pissed of Jacinda. Then did a good opinion piece.
  
  Now just hadn’t his balls back to Jacinda along with all of the National party
  
  What protester would trust this lot. As soon as they are packed up the cops will move in and they are lost
  
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  February 17, 2022 8:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  If ever there was a sign that representation in a civil democracy was dead, it is this. People driven from their jobs and vilified by state initiated cessation of civil rights demanding to be heard … and the opposition wants them to leave quietly. Utterly reprehensible.
  
  17 1
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  February 17, 2022 8:13pm
Maggie Pie

With an outbreak of Covid at Police NHQ….. who will be around to sort out the maskless protestors camping on Parliament Grounds?
14 1
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February 17, 2022 7:46pm
Paul Marsden

Russell Coutts says…

I’m heading to Wellington next week to join the protest. It’s the first time I’ve ever felt compelled to join a protest.
I’m not anti-vaccine (I’m vaccinated) but I’m definitely against forced vaccinations.
I’m also strongly opposed to the ever increasing erosion of our human rights and the growing limitations on our freedom of choice. I believe in having the freedom to be able to question so-called “expert” opinion.
I’m against discrimination and the “them and us” society that is being promoted by our current political leaders.
I’m against creating different rights, laws and privileges based on Race.
I’m also against the irrational Covid rules that are currently being mandated in New Zealand, a few examples being;
– The 10 day quarantine that still remains for international travel.
– The absurd rules where our kids (vaccinated and unvaccinated) can sit in the same classroom and play sport together inside the school yard, yet are prohibited from playing sport together outside the school yard.
– The absurd rules that prohibit two young unvaccinated brothers, living in the same household, from sailing together in a sailing competition because they would be within two metres of each other while sailing their boat.
– The rules that require one to put on a mask to walk to and from the bathroom inside a restaurant when masks have already been removed while eating and drinking.
– The contradictory rules that allow unvaccinated people to take a domestic flight (with a negative Covid test) but prohibit a young unvaccinated kid from competing in their sport (outside school).
– The fact that our kids are forced to wear masks at school (even when it’s well known that the surgical masks most of them are wearing are highly ineffective).
Finally and perhaps most important, I’m against the fact that some of our mainstream media have received payment from the New Zealand government conditional on them promoting government policy, propaganda and spin.
So yes, I’ll be joining the protest in Wellington
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February 17, 2022 8:30pm
Sparrow

Russell Coutts has nailed it in a Herald article. Going to join the protest
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February 17, 2022 9:02pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Brilliant. So excited. Go Russell Coutts. Take note politicians this is what leadership looks like. This is what it means to have values and stand by them.
  
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  February 17, 2022 10:05pm

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