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May 1, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 May 2022

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General Debate

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Yvette

3 Waters
Tuku Morgan (Waikato Tainui), is a member of the Three Waters working group who in March dismissed claims that Māori would own the country’s water infrastructure under the reforms.
“There is a view being promoted by some of the councillors around the country that this is a Māori grab for power, that we are interested in owning these water assets,” he told 1News.
“It’s absolute nonsense. We have always said, that we’re not interested in owning the water assets. What we’re interested in is the proprietor rights over water, and that is a discussion to be had with the Crown, not with councils.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/29/iwi-involvement-aims-to-further-safeguard-water-assets-robertson/

There is no power in pipes – they are only provision, maintenance, expenditure and headache.
Power is in what is in the pipes.
Let this comment on “3 Waters” just sink in – “proprietor rights over water”
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May 1, 2022 8:02am
- Rich Prick
  
  Rent seeking scum.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:31am
  - pdm
    
    Rent eeking was just a waste of words RP.
    
    Scum on its own fits Morgan better.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:03am
  - kevn
    
    @RP… When we have excess water as in flooding, you will know who to seek compo from.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:43am
    - rouppe
      
      Nah, they just want proprietor rights, not proprietor obligations
      
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      May 1, 2022 9:56am
  - Matt Long
    
    Of course Iwi elites are going to seek ownership of water and every other privilege and power they can get their hands on. That’s human nature, the problem is when we have high minded socialists who think either it is a virtue to give them whatever they want or who think it will further their battle against private ownership and the rule of law to create an ethno- nationalist state.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:56am
    - Nickc2
      
      I read/heard somewhere the other day that the next cab off the rank of Maori ownership claims is going to be Electrical Power. No, I’m not making this shit up. Remember, Maori have ongoing claims for ownership of the Frequency Spectrum and Air above Maori Significant Spaces.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:12am
      - Jack5
        
        Nickc2’s … ongoing claims for ownership of the Frequency Spectrum …
        
        They’ve already been awarded a slice of the frequency spectrum. They will want more as new Western technology creates demand at new frequencies.
        
        Below is a link to the agreement the Labour Government reached with Maori in February on the spectrum.
        
        It includes this:
        
        The Crown will allocate to the MSE (Maori Spectrum Working Group) to be held for the benefit of all Māori at no cost 20% of all future Commercial Spectrum allocations that are allocated using the Management Rights regime, or any regime that might in the future replace the Management Rights regime.
        
        https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/18702-memorandum-of-understanding-maori-spectrum-agreement
        
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        May 1, 2022 11:44am
      - Nickc2
        
        Jack5 @11:44AM
        This Maori take over of things of value gets worse by the day. Your Link wasn’t very well disseminated AFIK. I certainly wasn’t aware of it.
        Don’t get too attached to anything you think you own eh?
        
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        May 1, 2022 12:57pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Matt the socialist is a wrecker at core. Their ideological view of the world is totally negative. Everything needs torn down so that it can be rebuilt, nothing is sacred, in fact it’s the things that are sacred and cherished by a society that need torn down the most. History needs rewritten and our heroes smeared and cancelled our institutions need turned upside down our literature sterilised. Then and only then can they build utopia. And if it doesn’t work they haven’t torn down enough. That is the essence of revolutionary Marxism and post modernism right through to the Democratic socialist Labour Party of NZ ( their words not mine ).
      
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      May 1, 2022 2:29pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  All NZers will send offerings to the weather God Tāwhirimātea via their local iwi.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:39am
  - oldfella
    
    Maggy, maybe we can blame the Maori weather god for global warming? Make a claim against them under the TOW, or does that only work one way? /s
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:15am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Maggy, you spelled “koha” wrong.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:51am
- Swifty
  
  When pre-contact Maori frequently invaded and raided the lands of other tribes, drove the latter off their lands, butchered the men and took possession of their resources, women and children, did they pay the former owners royalties or some other form of compensation?
  
  How were these royalties or other forms of compensation calculated?
  
  Was mediation ordered when the parties couldn’t agree?
  
  In the invasion scenarios, did the original owners retain proprietorship of their water assets. If not, why not?
  
  Perhaps Scott Hamilton could enlighten us how Maori managed these important and delicate issues.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:44am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    You’re just being cynical, racist and silly.
    
    Modern science has proved beyond doubt that Maori used to live in a blissful and peaceful socialist utopia, complete with advanced technologies, economic systems, harmonious social and gender relationships, effective environmental management and stewardship of resources and wonderful conservation techniques. Antarctica was explored in the 1400s/1500s. All were happy through the superior religious and moral philosophies that effortlessly guided the thoughts of the populace.
    
    This was all abruptly destroyed through colonization.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:46am
    - backster
      
      Did they smack their children?
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:50am
    - Swifty
      
      Ah, silly me.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:56am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “Was mediation ordered when the parties couldn’t agree?”
    
    A large number of maori chiefs urged the Crown in the form of Queen Victoria and her representatives to intercede on their behalf to bring peace and the rule of law.
    
    So, yes.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:53am
- CJames
  
  “proprietor rights over water”. A proprietor is an owner, isn’t it? So Maori (or more particularly, a self appointed group of elite Maori) are claiming ownership of water and the Government wants to give it to them.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:47am
- David Garrett
  
  Ignoring the bad grammar, “proprietor rights” can only possibly mean “ownership”…everyone who owns a house in the this country is the registered proprietor of said house.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:59am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Indeed. And why does it not seem to have occurred to the RNZ journalist to whom Tuku Morgan made these comments, to challenge him to explain why demanding “proprietor rights” doesn’t mean wanting ownership?
    
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    May 1, 2022 1:50pm
- peterwn
  
  And Labour wants to ‘entrench’ an anti-privatisation provision so three waters assets cannot be privatised. An ‘entrenched’ provision requires a 75% majority to remove the entrenchment. However it also requires a 75% majority to enact it. Opposition (presumably National & ACT) will apparently not support entrenchment, so it would not get the required 75% majority.
  Also it is worth noting that the practical effect of entrenching an anti-privatisation provision would be the entrench the essence of the whole legislation.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:02am
  - CJames
    
    That is a deliberate tactic by Labour. It realises just how electorally unpopular it’s decision to give ownership of water to Maori will be. So it will now seek to portray itself as defender of public ownership, and National/ Act want to privatise it. I hope the opposition isn’t stupid enough to let Labour do this.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:01am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Māori elites seem eager to take ownership of most anything except the corruption, crime and child abuse statistics emanating from their communities. IMHO.
      
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      May 1, 2022 2:58pm
- KH
  
  Ngai Tahu can’t be involved with Three Waters in the South Island because of their attempts to do dirty dairy in the Hurinui District. Conflict of interest. Bad record.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:09am
  - Matt Long
    
    Sure, that’s how politics works in New Zealand.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:34am
  - Paulus
    
    Surely Ngai Tahu are ok in all this as the four areas of control are the same as the four main Maori Tribal Divisions.
    So Ngai Tahu will own and control all the South Island which includes all the rivers, the lakes, and thereby all the power stations for the whole of New Zealand.
    A dangerous idea.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:42am
- Nickc2
  
  Exactly Yvette. I’ve been saying Maori Ownership of Water has been the goal ever since 3 Waters was first mooted. FFS people don’t get sucked in by an argument over water infrastructure. That IMO is a matter for another day.
  As I see this is that Maori will automatically assume they own water once they have the controlling interest in its means of management where they can dictate price and quantity.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Maori Ownership of Water has been the goal for decades…
    https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/uploads/public/researchpubs/OPNS_Legal_Voice_of_Maori.pdf
    
    I think most people in NZ haven’t been paying attention to the changes/forces around them
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:30am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      John Key was right when he declared that no one owns our water.
      
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      May 1, 2022 9:32am
      - David Garrett
        
        Tony S: Quite so…but it was he who foolishly signed up to the UNDRIP which even Clark was canny enough to refuse to do. Unless the fight is won, it will lead to a Maori dominated country.
        
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        May 1, 2022 10:06am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Yeah, but “no one owns water” gets you precisely nowhere in addressing the increasingly important questions that are raised regarding water.
        
        Who has the right to take it for their own use, or to place limits on the amount of it that others may take, or to restrict what they may use it for? Who may sell it? Who may put other substances into it, who is responsible for keeping it clean, who is responsible for ensuring that it doesn’t do damage?
        
        The answers to these and similar questions are not Nobody, and neither are they Everybody, and therefore these roles, rights and responsibilities must be assigned to Somebody, whether or not that Somebody is formally labelled “owner” or “proprietor”.
        
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        May 1, 2022 2:04pm
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS Maggy. I can see this issue getting very dirty before/if it’s ever resolved. I feel that if it’s not resolved to Maori satisfaction, it will be forever an ongoing issue for all of us.
      Personally, I’m of the opinion that John Key reached whereby nobody owns our water.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:00am
      - Hebe123
        
        3 waters isn’t about ownership of the water, it’s about ownership of the infrastructure which Maori are expert in.
        The claim for the water is the next step if we have anything left to pay them after step 1
        
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        May 1, 2022 7:15pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Stopping or controlling access to water is a recipe for a few things:
  
  1/ Rent seeking – and that will mean excess pricing as there is no near free access as currently in place or no competitive access mechanisms to attack monopoly profits
  2/ Corruption as access can be arbitrarily denied via a direct No or excess pricing which can only be got around via Koha….
  3/ Ultimately violence. Denying or restricting unfairly access to water leads to extreme behaviour. Which is a gateway to violence. How our Left wing politicians can’t see this means either they are stupid or more concerningly they do understand this point and want violence to use as an excuse for implementing another hidden agenda (sounds conspiratorial but hey, He Puapua was not real until it suddenly was – they have a lot of form here)
  
  Its really nice that Tuku Morgan has described what the tribal leadership class want – control of water to benefit themselves – no one else except their direct supporters and the occasional benefit for other Maori to shore up broader support.
  
  First step to a Ethno State polity with the traditional Rangitira class having all the power and reap profit via patronage and corruption (think Tonga)
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:26am
- surfing
  
  “proprietor rights over water”
  
  Shakespeare nailed this one, a rose by any other name is still a rose.
  
  Changing the name doesn’t change what it is, ownership.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:28am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Nobody owns water and that is not up for negotiation – Prime Minister John Key and Deputy Prime Minister Bill English made their position clear yesterday as they battled more potential strife on the proposed part-sale of state-owned energy companies.
  
  A claim was lodged in the Waitangi Tribunal yesterday to stop the part-sale of state-owned enterprises until the water and geothermal ownership is resolved.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/water-ownership-not-up-for-negotiation-says-key/47JDRDAUALJB7HPXA2ZBOS2VY4/
  
  Oh for a return to the common-sense approach of John Key and Bill English.
  
  But Mr Key said, that in his view, “no one owns water”.
  
  “It’s like air. No one owns air.”
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:38am
  - Cinematic
    
    Exactly. This notion of ownership of water is patently absurd.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:52am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      So can I come to your house and help myself out of your taps? Can I come to your farm and extract unlimited amounts from your spring?
      
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      May 1, 2022 2:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Air will be next on the extortion list
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:02am
  - CJames
    
    There is an old Tom Scott cartoon (back from the days when he was good) of Maori coming out of a meeting where they claimed ownership of the airwaves. One of the people is saying how they admired how they put the claim forward with a straight face. Another says “It’s oxygen next”.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:04am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He was wrong…
      
      It was gaseous forms of Carbon (CO2 and CH4)
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:12am
  - oldfella
    
    Tony, now Luxon needs to tell the country he agrees with Key’s words. No. One. Owns. Water.
    That would be a guaranteed vote winner for National.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:22am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    How do you feel about territorial waters extending off the coastline ?
    
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    May 1, 2022 1:17pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Territorial Waters are about the square miles of sea down to the sea bed and the right to extract resources from that area. Its a total different concept.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:01pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Tuku can take his flash undies and take a hike.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:50am
- rouppe
  
  An ethnic group wants proprietor rights over a resource essential to life.
  
  Let that sink in
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:53am
- oldfella
  
  Yvette, this is just Tuku (Captain Underpants) Morgan on the hunt for more goodies.
  https://apnews.com/article/f573b0945cca272420c9436a5db8a254
  Probably felt entitled to new undies from his reading of the TOW.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:13am
  - oldfella
    
    This is a response to Yvette’s comment at the top of the thread. Not sure how it ended up down here.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:24am
- Ruahine
  
  At least he is telling the truth as to their true objective unlike Ardern, Robertson, Mahuta and the lying News media with their ‘plant’ stories.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:10am
mikenmildagain

Happy International Workers’ Day!
Or May Day, for those keen on pagan celebrations.
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May 1, 2022 8:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  End of Ramadan
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:41am
- MCōs
  
  Also the Feast Day of St Joseph the Worker and father of Jesus Christ
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Husband of the surrogate mother, you mean.
    
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    May 1, 2022 1:09pm
    - MCōs
      
      That too.
      In as much as she was allegedly a virgin there’s only one explanation for her pregnancy. Divine intervention, which explained away a lot of mysteries in those days.
      Nowadays there are multiple contradictory explanations for everything.
      
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      May 1, 2022 1:48pm
  - Stellaboxer
    
    @ MCos I thought god was supposed to be Jesus’s old man and Joseph the worlds most famous cuckold?
    
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    May 1, 2022 3:08pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Foster father of Jesus Christ. Thank you.
    
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    May 1, 2022 5:23pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Up the workers!
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:38pm
krazykiwi

I read the headline Epidemic: German and Austrian Mayors Under 60 Are’Suddenly and Unexpectedly’ Dropping Dead and almost passed it by. But clicking revealed a sad litany of death notices, each with an accompanying photograph.

Two are recorded somewhat earlier than the onset of Germany’s mass vaxx campaign in Dec-2020, but after this date the deaths came thick and fast.

I’m sure it’s just an unfortunate coincidence because ‘Safe and Effective™’ rode into town alongside all vaxx consignments.
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May 1, 2022 8:03am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Putin’s got a job for you Goebbels.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:05am
  - Peter Lane
    
    What a sad, joyless life you must lead.
    
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    May 1, 2022 8:15am
    - David Garrett
      
      He’s fucking lucky to be living any life at all.
      
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      May 1, 2022 9:00am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Say what ? Bwhahahahagaha
        
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        May 1, 2022 9:51am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Peter .Don’t let him get in your head just move on by . Even this advice gives him the oxygen he craves . I don’t even bother to down tick the balloon.
      
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      May 1, 2022 3:18pm
- Inandout
  
  krazy, rather weird I must say for so many deaths. I can’t think of any NZ Mayor lately who has dropped dead on the job.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:46am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Sandra Goudie seems to be in rude health, I’ll say that much.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:56am
- judith8409121
  
  not just Germany – NZ all cause mortality is increasing, The all-cause mortality for Sept 2021 is the highest mortality of any Sept (9483 ) since the bad flu year of 2017 – and there was no flu in 2021. Dec 2021 is the highest mortality of any Dec on record, and the rate for each month since than is greater – this started before covid came into NZ.
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/births-and-deaths-year-ended-december-2021-including-abridged-period-life-table
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I was some graphs for NZ deaths broken down by age group, elderly deaths took a real uptick through middle of 2021. Wonder why /s
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They all had dirt on Hillary //
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:05am
artemisia

Treasury’s first Wellbeing Report has been released. Key fact – (some) older folk are richer and happier than (some) younger folk.

Is this also a key fact?

The share of people in their early 30s who own their own home has fallen from 73% in the 1980s to 51% at the last Census in 2018.

Maybe, provided it takes into account the family members who rent from family owners, direct or through family trusts. There can be considerable financial benefits for both parties in these arrangements and they are common. There is pretty much no difference for the renting family from actually having their name on the title. One day, kids, this will all be yours.

Nothing new under the sun.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/128492002/you-might-not-have-heard-of-dynastic-wealth-its-hurting-a-lot-of-younger-kiwis
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May 1, 2022 8:03am
- I remember when
  
  Did it have anything along the lines of ‘May Be Inflationary.’
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:02pm
krazykiwi

From The Spectator: Why is Canada euthanising the poor?

There is an endlessly repeated witticism by the poet Anatole France that, ‘the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.’ What France certainly did not foresee is that an entire country—and an ostentatiously progressive one at that—has decided to take his sarcasm at face value and to its natural conclusion.

Since last year, Canadian law, in its all its majesty, has allowed both the rich as well as the poor to kill themselves if they are too poor to continue living with dignity. In fact, the ever-generous Canadian state will even pay for their deaths. What it will not do is spend money to allow them to live instead of killing themselves.

As with most slippery slopes, it all began with a strongly worded denial that they exist.

Worth reading in full. The Spectator is one of the few MSM sources I subscribe to.
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May 1, 2022 8:16am
- edhunter
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’ve long held a very unpopular view that we should have universal euthanasia at 75 regardless of race, gender or wealth. Retire at 65, 10yrs of guaranteed income, no having to worry about making that retirement nest egg last until you’re 90. The ability to enjoy that 10yrs to its maximum potential and then a huge party at the end to celebrate your life. A funeral you can attend in spirit not just body.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:33am
  - Chris R
    
    The piece of your declaratory idea I find most repugnant is forced retirement at 65. Why ought anyone be forced out of the work force at an arbitrary age? I am 70 and still work 60 hour weeks but apparently I am on your less than delightful death row. Interesting.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I am 70 soon too. The only reason I stopped was the Employer’s lease expired and the landlord wants to replace the building with small warehouses.
      Bummer – I have been with that Company 49 years.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:09am
  - cjn
    
    How old are you Ed?
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:06am
  - KH
    
    How old are you Ed?
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:11am
    - edhunter
      
      Early 50’s & have the first grandchild on the way.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:10am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Logan’s Run was 30 year olds.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:57am
  - rouppe
    
    There’s probably a reason it’s an unpopular view.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:03am
  - Sacha
    
    You think that I should have missed the last 10 years of my life?
    Actually, you may be on to something. I think that the government is quietly gaining control of New Zealand’s intelligence (?) and within a decade people will be discussing early euthanasia as a positive choice. From there, it will be just a matter of repeating the kindness and public duty mantras that have worked so well with the covid experiment, and New Zealand will have a permanently youthful population.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:13am
  - H. Upmann
    
    So when is your expiry date Ed?
    
    Are you planning on sending out invitations to the event?
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:37am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Ed hunter it’s people like you that had my wife and I hesitant about bringing children into the world. My mum is 87 and still contributes to her community.
    
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    May 1, 2022 3:25pm
Over Taxed Worker

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/466208/nzers-social-media-comments-scanned-to-inform-covid-19-response. Big Brother is watching you!
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May 1, 2022 8:20am
- mandk
  
  I wonder how much the government paid to spy on New Zealanders like this.
  
  How ever much it cost tax payers, it was too much.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:44am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    More bloody wasted money, it will be in the millions, I have several times seen a plead to do a poll on COVID, I flick them off and ignore, but I do get them at least once a month.
    
    14 4
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    May 1, 2022 9:56am
- cjn
  
  I’m unsure what social media is. Is Kiwiblog social media? Is Muriel Newman’s site social media? It seems that the government has people scanning “social media” to see which way the wind is blowing. Well, in my opinion that’s a good thing. When I post on Kiwiblog I hope that my words will be influential in this small circle. If I influence the government in the beehive I’m pleased. They are very lucky to have my opinions to consider even though I don’t belong to the parties in power.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:13am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It’s the first trait of a dictatorship, spying on the flock,
    
    17 3
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    May 1, 2022 9:59am
  - Sacha
    
    I always assume that someone is collecting information.
    Truancy is in the news, and mentioned in the link article.
    A thought: perhaps one reason so many children are avoiding school is because their parents don’t want them to be vaccinated.
    
    12 2
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    May 1, 2022 10:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Socialists use every trick in the book to retain control
  
  20 3
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  May 1, 2022 10:15am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember that historically, back many generations in UK, Labour always played from the gutter and still do in New Zealand.
    Crap from the gutter can rise up very easily as we can see form this lot.
    
    17 3
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    May 1, 2022 10:46am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  There are no problems at all with this.
  
  Cindy was doing it for the right reasons. It’s not easy obtaining good, hard data when you’re so busy saving lives
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

I thought it was Science that was “informing” Our Dear Governments response to Covid-19, but looks like its all you folks on social media.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/466208/nzers-social-media-comments-scanned-to-inform-covid-19-response
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May 1, 2022 8:20am
- CJames
  
  It just confirmed what we already knew Maggy. The Government’s Covid response was driven by science, it was the opinion polls, paid for by the poor suffering taxpayer. I suspect even her speeches were strung together from Facebook comments she liked.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:28am
- Niz
  
  Political science (which seems like a contradiction), apparently.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:30am
  - oldfella
    
    Niz, not such a contradiction as Maori Science.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:27am
  - CJames
    
    There is a truism in old fashioned academic circles that any subject that has to have science in the title isn’t.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:12am
- Matt Long
  
  So their decision were informed by the science of buying social media data, it’s the new Meta trend and I bet National is following suit.
  And there everyone was thinking Cindy generated her policy at kindergarten think tanks.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:34am
  - pdm
    
    `………..Cindy generated her policy at kindergarten think tanks.’
    
    Also known as Cabinet.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:07am
- graham
  
  This part is a bit chilling:
  
  “… with about 20 anonymised screenshots of people’s comments used in every report to give specific examples.”
  
  So the researchers were literally reporting back to the Government exactly what people are saying. Without their knowledge.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:41am
  - RichardX
    
    Chilling that researchers supply the government with an anonymised version of public information?
    
    I guess your definition of chilling may be different to mine.
    
    7 2
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    May 1, 2022 11:41am
  - mawm
    
    I’m sure the more chilling part has been left unsaid – they are keeping a ledger of who is naughty and who is nice. Soon to be added to your vaccine “pass”, QR coded biometric electronic identity the WEF wants so desperately.
    
    12 2
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    May 1, 2022 11:56am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What a shame we don’t use swear words on KB. Then Cindy would really know what we think of her policies.
    
    5 1
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    May 1, 2022 2:43pm
- kowtow
  
  Ties in very neatly with Kate Macnamara’s item in yesterday’s Herald over the Dept of PM and Cabinet censorship of its covid facebook page , the huge expenses that have gone into the regime’s spending on advertising / communications and get this , it has “41 communications and engagement staff” .
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:57am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggs: Yes…aren’t these new word uses bloody irritating? but not as bad as the conversion of verbs to nouns, the worst of which is “the learnings”…
  
  AAAARGHHH!!
  
  30 1
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  May 1, 2022 9:05am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Another hideous one which is being used in the public service…
    
    “Higher spend” instead of “Higher spending”
    
    26 1
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    May 1, 2022 9:17am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    “Learnings” – clearly not a gerund; so what to make of the word?
    I assume the author doesn’t like to admit that they are still absorbing lessons (like a school kid).
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:44am
    - Sarkozygroupie
      
      ‘Lessons’ infer blame and incompetence. A competent person should have no need of lessons and should have been able to execute their role, anticipating unintended consequences (lessons).
      
      ‘Learnings’ infer some sort of kumbiyah lightbulb moment everyone can get on board with together, in a non-blaming kind of way.
      
      Very progressive and inclusive. All care, no responsibility.
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:22pm
  - curry4me
    
    While it’s not a verb to noun conversion; I do have one or two pet hates when it comes to contemporary Engkish. Horseback riding. That just sounds totally illiterate for the same reason ‘motorbike riding’ , or ‘airplane flying’ would. ‘Shined’ for shone. It just doesn’t sound right. And ‘overtuened’ for capsized when it happens to a boat, or ship.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:30am
    - David Garrett
      
      curry: I always wince when I see “General X was hung at Nuremberg in 1946”
      
      I remember a former Chief Justice telling me at a function: “Men are hanged dear boy; pictures are hung.”
      
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      May 1, 2022 12:12pm
      - curry4me
        
        Yes, indeed, that and ‘fire fighter’ or ‘mail carrier’.
        
        3 1
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        May 1, 2022 10:36pm
  - Its only I
    
    (Anyways), moving on.
    
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    May 1, 2022 2:12pm
Swifty

I, and my colleagues present, was openly lied to this week by a quite senior manager of a Government department.

I know this person lied to us because, unbeknownst to this person, I am aware of the issue under discussion from both sides and the way the person presented it to us was a complete untruth.

The lie, I should add, was clearly geared to position them and their organisation in a good light amid present turmoil.

It has had me thinking since; is it appropriate that Government employees lie under any circumstances? Are some or certain lies acceptable? What is the culture that has made this employee think lying is acceptable?

And this is of course doubly concerning to me because this employee has alternatives to lying. If telling the truth would reflect badly on themselves or their organisation they could simply have said “I’m sorry, that’s not something I can/am prepared to discuss…” and the matter would have ended there.

But no, they chose to lie instead.

Interested in the thoughts and experiences of others.
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May 1, 2022 8:23am
- Ra Henare
  
  Welcome to the real world.
  In my experience Government employees lie regularly when they are challenged.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:36am
- [email protected]
  
  It is easy to learn how to lie when your very public role models do so regularly.
  
  36 1
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  May 1, 2022 8:39am
- artemisia
  
  A well crafted and detailed OIA request, preferably public through fyi.org.nz, could work. Not necessarily made by an identifiable requestor.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:52am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Do you have evidence that the Senior Manager was in command of all the facts/background information?
  
  I have come across cases where someone high up made a wrong call because they had not been given all the details of a case.
  
  I also know of instances where a complainant has not been upfront with all the information pertaining to their situation.
  
  If you are still clear that the senior manager has lied, then he/she has contravened the Conduct Code NZ Public Servants are required to work under.
  
  https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/assets/Legacy/resources/Code-of-conduct-StateServices.pdf
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:54am
  - Swifty
    
    All good points my dear Maggy but I am certain the person is supremely aware of all the relevant facts.
    
    Them being uninformed or misinformed is not an excuse available to them in this instance.
    
    22 2
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    May 1, 2022 8:58am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      What would happen if you challenged them or proved them to be lying? What would the likely result be?
      
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      May 1, 2022 10:07am
      - Don Beckett
        
        So are you going to lodge a complaint to the relevant department?
        
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        May 1, 2022 5:30pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Bureaucrats will generally try to control you by what information they provide you – even when law and policy say different or provides you other options that are better for you. Never trust the bastards to give you a straight answer or the whole truth.
    
    12 1
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    May 1, 2022 10:48am
  - Its only I
    
    Layers and layers.
    Every layer lies to the next up the chain to protect themselves. The top has a jumble who then lie to the the gov who throw it all out, and lie again.
    
    Not all of Geppettos puppets grow long noses, some gums and teeth….
    
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    May 1, 2022 2:18pm
- judith8409121
  
  Yes – there is no place for a government official to lie for reward. In the case of a governing body – a lie for return should be considered corruption and dismissal. When a parliamentarian lies , or when a governing body official lies, it should be a reason for a corruption dismissal or court action. Only with that sort of reponse can these lying individual have to be forced not to use this tool in their toolbox. Cindy has lied multiple times to get her ends – that, to me, is corruption on the highest level in NZ. the latest “over 1,000,00 Kiwis don’t have safe drinking water” is a brazen lie for effect – totally corrupt
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:59am
- kowtow
  
  The “noble lie” has been a covid response tactic of govts and their agencies , including the media ,almost since the day that they discovered the bat had flown its roost , as it were.
  
  14 2
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  May 1, 2022 9:00am
- KH
  
  My experience amongst the civil servives was facts were not important. What was important was the internal politics.
  You call it lies, but they see it as adapting to the political realities.
  If you came up with some inconvenient facts or data they see you as the problem, not the data. That’s the culture.
  
  23 2
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  May 1, 2022 9:24am
- Matt Long
  
  I don’t see habitual lying as the worst of the virtues, for me it is their high minded love of gaia and the brave new world for which they are willing to make any kind of sacrifice of other people’s interests.
  
  13 2
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  May 1, 2022 9:45am
- Clownworld
  
  Truth is the first casualty of war.
  Lies are the default for the corrupt.
  
  14 2
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  May 1, 2022 10:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They have been taught by an expert, right at the top
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:21am
Tony Stuart

They say it’s just COVID, but has Annalect been collecting other opinions from social media, and either collating them, or reporting to the Government? And how much is Annalect being paid for what is essentially spying?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/466208/nzers-social-media-comments-scanned-to-inform-covid-19-response

I wonder if there would be such a tepid response from RNZ and other media if a National-Act government was paying an external contractor large sums of taxpayer money to monitor what people were saying on social media?
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May 1, 2022 8:27am
- [email protected]
  
  I rather like the idea that the government keeps track of what the citizens of New Zealand think and say on social media. Hopefully that helps keep the government from making worse decisions.
  
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  May 1, 2022 8:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I have no problem with organisations collecting public comments and using them to provide insights for their clients. I’d imagine quite a few private companies would use this sort of service.
    Not much different from the dreaded ‘focus groups’, etc.
    Of course, it’s another good reason to remain anonymous on social media when discussing anything remotely controversial.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:19am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Social media is all echo chambers these days, and big tech has been censoring non authoritarian left viewpoints. And civil servants are most left wing group in NZ outside of academia and unions. you just know they are only listening to chat that confirms their biases.
    
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    May 1, 2022 1:28pm
Chris2

Anyone heard yet from Nicky Hager decrying the Labour Government’s two-year long surveillance of social media comments about the Covid-19 response, with reports sent to the Labour Government every four days?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-government-releases-social-media-listening-reports/YATKJOOXVSCFH3EFAWGZIPYVUY/

Come on Mr Hager, be consistent, don’t hold back just because Labour have been doing this; you’d be in like a robber’s dog if it was a National Government that had done this.
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May 1, 2022 8:32am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Is the thief of information still alive?
  
  24 1
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  May 1, 2022 9:16am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I received a questioner over COVID just last week, I flicked it off and I was banned from FB for a month over nothing within half an hour.
    
    11 4
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    May 1, 2022 10:09am
- krazykiwi
  
  There are a few people whose countenance reminds me that a lifetime of manicured vitriol is bad for one’s health. Hager is one of these people.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:31am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Rabbits.
Soon it will be Christmas.
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May 1, 2022 8:41am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Turn out the noise from the left. Just listen to his words.
https://rumble.com/v10zax8-elon-musk-asked-why-he-made-offer-to-buy-twitter…-just-listen.html?
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May 1, 2022 8:53am
Alan Wilkinson

Amongst Stuff’s comentary drivel Damien Grant is again worth reading. Given the mad, dangerous Russians the world needs another JFK to confront Putin and tell him deployment of his new life threatening Satan missiles will not be permitted and any attempt to do so will be taken out. But we have Biden.
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May 1, 2022 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  The situation confronting JFK around sixty years ago was entirely different to the invasion of Ukraine.
  He had no choice, but act in some way.
  In the current situation America could have stood back and said it was a genius move, or whatever idiocy it was that Trump said.
  As it is all sorts of sanctions have been applied and eye watering amounts of money spent them weapons.
  What else did you have in mind?
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:36am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Arrange an anonymous white van to show up in Kiev with one or two nuclear warheads of a design that doesn’t match any known designs (for deniability) for Zelensky to do with as he sees fit. I’d suggest zelensky explodes one in uninhabited Russian arctic (with warning) and then states there is another hidden in Moscow and St Petersburg.
    
    Alternatively 1-2000 air launched propane ramjet cruise missiles (very cheap and easy to design and build), and target Russian infrastructure.
    
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    May 1, 2022 1:47pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I’m talking about preventing Putin from holding an undefendable threat over the planet for the forseeable future.
    
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    May 1, 2022 2:55pm
- Nukuleka
  
  I hadn’t realized that Putin was deploying his Satan missiles adjacent to the US border, Alan. You are obviously more in the know than the rest of us. Maybe you think that Ukraine is now a de facto US state.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:41am
  - kowtow
    
    What many forget re the so called Cuban missile crisis is the US had them on the Soviet border in Turkey and while they withdrew theirs from Cuba , the over vaunted JFK also withdrew his from Turkey , in that sense then the Russians actually won that one .
    
    But JFK was to the media then what Obama was to the media in more recent years.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:52am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think there is more to the story than that, kowtow.
      Kennedy was virtually alone in the US government in holding out against a full-scale military strike against Cuba. He was also aghast when he found out that the Jupiter missiles had been retained in Turkey despite his earlier orders. In the event, the later withdrawal of the Jupiters became a useful secret quid pro quo in ending the crisis.
      
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      May 1, 2022 11:27am
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      Yeah, but remember that the US missiles in Turkey were “defensive” whereas the Russian missiles in Cuba were clearly “offensive.” The difference is that Johnny America can be trusted, not like Ivan Muscovite.
      
      11 4
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      May 1, 2022 11:36am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    You don’t realize the new missiles are claimed to be undefendable and capable of destroying any European country within 3 minutes.
    
    5 1
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    May 1, 2022 2:51pm
- Rodion Raskolnikov
  
  You’re not helping your case there at all. Since you invoke the Cuban missile crisis, the appropriate analogy is clearly that Putin is JFK concerned about defending his nation’s integrity, while Washington DC is Krushchev determined to expand his reach into a geographically unrelated area, for the purposes of having military capability right on JFK’s doorstep. It was as unacceptable for JFK in 1962 as it is unacceptable for Putin in 2022.
  
  Just as any rational assessment tells us that the only reason the Soviets wanted missiles in Cuba was for offensive purposes, so too that is the only reason the US wants its weapons in Ukraine, under the auspices of NATO.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:14am
  - Rodion Raskolnikov
    
    Further to this, Ukraine in the present day plays a very similar geopolitical role as Cuba did in the Cold War. Otherwise irrelevant, but strategically located, both Cuba and Ukraine came into play due to their proximity to an enemy (in Cuba’s case, the USSR’s enemy America, in Ukraine’s case, the US’s enemy Russia).
    
    Just as the Soviets were donkey-deep in the politics of Cuba and helped install an anti-American revolutionary communist regime (demonstrating that they were unconcerned about the sovereignty of the Cuban people), so too in the current times are the US donkey-deep in Ukrainian politics, staging a coup there in 2014 to install a favourable regime (similarly unconcerned about Ukrainian sovereignty).
    
    This is yet another instance of US hypocrisy and double-standards when it comes to their interest-based actions in the world.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:29am
    - Its only I
      
      Yeah, nah.
      
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      May 1, 2022 2:22pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Rubbish. Putin is boasting his new Satan hypersonic miltiple nuclear headed missile is undefendable and a single missile can destroy a counry. The world cannot tolerate such a threat from a homicidal lunatic like Putin.
    
    5 3
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    May 1, 2022 2:48pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Why does everyone emphasis more weapons to Ukraine ie more war?
  
  Seems to me that Zelensky is another Jacinda Ardern. Media savey and using it to feed his ego.
  He could have stopped the invasion by agreeing to stick by teh Minsk agreement and tell the US to sod off when they buttered him up to say how about joining NATO.
  The history books in 20 years time will be interesting.
  
  Whatever happened to negotiating peace?
  Instead of feeding the West arms makers and dealers.
  
  Maybe, just a thort. The west(AKA USA) say when there is a negotiated peace all sanctions are dropped…
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:08pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

There are no new opinion polls for a while after the disappointing Tax Payer Union-Curia poll. This means National must be doing well and the corrupt TV3 must have stopped broadcasting their opinion poll.
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May 1, 2022 9:18am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Last week Reid were polling, the person I know who was polled asked when it would be released, and he was told this week, to be fair, Newshub often release a poll on Sunday, so if it’s not released, then it’s bad for Cindy, Morgan figures should be out early this week, snd Curia usually release their poll on or around the 7th of the month.
  You only have to look at the ex PMs staffers that have been rubbishing Luxon over the filly bloody he doesn’t have an alternative to realise the polls are bad for labour, Red Claire let it slip that for the first time Labours internal polls have Nats ahead
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:16am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I thought you were always in the know about these things Sir Cullen…
  
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  May 1, 2022 4:31pm
Benedict Yu

This is my final comment on receiving emails from Wellington public servants that contain a mix of Maori and English language.

Last Wednesday I received an email asking me if I could submit a summary of progress on my project to be included in a “panui for the rōpū”. 🤡

I googled it. It means a “newsletter for the group”.

I replied “I’m sorry. I do not understand your request. Could you please ask your question again using either English or Chinese?”

Apparantly this was not well received as I received no reply.

I’m just over it.
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May 1, 2022 9:30am
- MCōs
  
  I told you they’re pulling your leg.
  
  3 14
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  May 1, 2022 9:38am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No it is not targeted at me. I have been copied into many similar emails to other people.
    
    I have never visited this government department in Wellington. I just meet with them by zoom every couple of weeks. Their latest motivational slogan is “We apply te ao Maori in everything we do.” 😳 😳
    
    So no they are not pulling my leg. This is the reality of what has happened. It’s application at the RBNZ by Adrian Orr has been one, but probably not the predominant factor in causing people to leave.
    
    The worst affected will be scientists working in the state sector.
    
    31 1
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    May 1, 2022 11:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just before you give it all away…
  
  Send in your summary in Chinese and a Google version of its Maori translation. (Chinese to Maori)
  
  Do not send an English version.
  
  36 1
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  May 1, 2022 9:48am
  - Sacha
    
    Lovely!
    
    13 0
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    May 1, 2022 10:28am
- RalphT
  
  No, Benedict, please don’t stop. I think it’s important that we continue to see how far the public service is stooping in its mangling of the English language.
  
  26 1
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  May 1, 2022 10:20am
- Niz
  
  You shouldn’t have apologised. You had done nothing wrong.
  
  22 1
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  May 1, 2022 10:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why not reply in Word Soup Waffle? (Jaspindaspeak)
  
  17 3
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  May 1, 2022 10:28am
- rockape
  
  I was delighted that at the National party Canterbury /Westland Regional conference Luxon gave an excellent speech and used not one word of Maori !
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:31am
  - curry4me
    
    Excellent, I hope that starts a trend
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:39am
  - kowtow
    
    Interesting.
    
    It will be a measure of the man how his “out of house” speeches will run.
    
    Otherwise as Shakespeare put it , “All the world’s a stage,
    And all the men and women merely players;
    They have their exits and their entrances;
    And one man in his time plays many parts,”
    
    I’m hoping for a better tomorrow , really I am .
    
    12 1
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    May 1, 2022 10:49am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Did you hear any of this crap the media are trying to frame that party members are worried Luxon is not up to it? Sounds like media bullshit to me
    
    16 5
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    May 1, 2022 11:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Labour is sh*t-scared with what’s happened to the polls since Luxon became leader. There is a coordinated plan on social media to discredit him.
      
      Unfortunately for Labour, the phone is off the hook, and people simply aren’t listening any more. When it gets to that point, something significant has to be done, like a leadership change. But could Labour survive without Jacinda?
      
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      May 1, 2022 11:33am
    - rockape
      
      G, you know a bit about me and my military background so will like this. At one stage the conference had to go into a closed session as it was about electing executives. The press were asked to leave. I noticed a tv camera so being a suspicious sort walked across to find it still switched on and recording audio. The cameraman rushed back 8n and ran out with it. Shades of a cup of tea and a forgotten recording device. I think the poor cameraman was worried about what I might have done to his camera, he was right!
      
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      May 1, 2022 1:56pm
    - cjn
      
      I am amazed you would say this. Kiwiblog is full of complaints about Luxon (te reo Luxon). We are have been writing about social media being monitored this morning. So its not “media crap”. National would be very foolish not to monitor this blog where 99% of the contributors wish to get rid of this government but have reservations about the man who wouldn’t meet the protesters.
      
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      May 1, 2022 3:36pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’ll be hearing from him at the Lower North Island conference and AGM in a fortnight. Apparently, it’s another full house already.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:30am
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  Why is it your final comment about your brushes with Menglish? We read these anecdotes with alternate horror and delight.
  
  You should have replied in Chinese and told them you were practicing cultural safety.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:57pm
SmokerGuy

Duncan Garner summed up this country perfectly. He questioned why there is so much change in every single area, was New Zealand really that stuffed that we have to completely turn everything upside down? Do people out there realise the massive upheaval going on? I fear we will suffer long term consequences because of this government’s dogged determination to plow ahead with untested and idiotic change for changes sake (often not even mentioned during the last election). We can already start to see the degradation in a number of different measures. Does National have the courage to get us back on track if they won next year? How long will it take to repair the damage this government has caused? In just 2 short years they have divided society like never before.
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May 1, 2022 9:34am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The incoming Government could introduce an omnibus Bill which repeals all legislation introduced since the 2020 election. There would be complications in that but these could be overcome.
  
  New governments get a “honey moon allowance”. I think that is the New Zealand phrase. They have goodwill.
  
  There is no way that National can work through conventional processes to unravel this mess and to create something better. I HOPE that behind the scenes, Luxon has a plan.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:47am
- David Garrett
  
  Smoker: Yes indeed…and this is why “progressives” are so dangerous: they believe in constant change, and that every change is a positive one. This frequently leads to the baby being thrown out with the bathwater.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:13am
  - oldfella
    
    DG: talking of babies, I heard some idiotic local last night on the TV news talking about our country’s ‘pregnant people’.
    Gee. Why use two words when you could just say ‘women’? /s
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:35am
    - David Garrett
      
      oldfella: Well, I guess that’s what you get when you move to “gender neutral” language, and ignore basic rules of grammar in favour of being PC…best example being using “their” for one person.
      
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      May 1, 2022 12:16pm
      - I remember when
        
        I thought ‘gender neutral’ was just a longer way of saying bisexual.
        
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        May 1, 2022 2:14pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I can assure you David that in the state sector, it is “pregnant people”. In the UK the public sector has introduced the term “chest feeding” to replace breast feeding.
      
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      May 1, 2022 12:38pm
- Inandout
  
  SG, progressive socialists adore turning things upside down because the new incoming government is left to clean up. Compare Jacinda’s government with Helen’s or Lange’s and stand aghast at the pure incompetence of this lot. In all honesty I have not witnessed such a dearth of talent or even basic skills to correctly run Ministerial portfolios. And frustratingly we (unlike say the US) have no written constitution for reference, we merely get shoved from pillar to post.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  ‘we have to completely turn everything upside down’
  
  That’s a euphemism for ‘revolution” and that’s what your classical Marxist believes in comrade .
  
  And that’s what we’re seeing , slow but sure.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:45am
rangitoto

O’Sullivan vs Trump in the final.
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May 1, 2022 9:47am
- Nickc2
  
  Great! Is that tomorrow?
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:38am
- rangitoto
  
  Looks like there are some Higgins and/or Williams fans on here.
  
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  May 1, 2022 1:01pm
Gulag1917

The Vatican and Russia have been fighting since the Great Schism of 1054.
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May 1, 2022 9:55am
- JimBobJoe
  
  The Vatican and Eastern Orthodoxy have been at loggerheads since the schism. Russian Orthodoxy is a mere sub branch of the Orthodox Church – what ever the Patriarch of the Russian church claims.
  
  Russia as we know it today, centred on Moscow, did not come in to existence till the 1200’s before that it was a number of princedoms that waxed and waned in relative power to each other
  
  The guardian of the Orthodoxy Church was Byzantium until it fell in the 1400’s i.e. the Greeks
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:05pm
kevn

@Smoker… Every since metric will show labour as having failed in all areas. It would have been better for them to do nothing.
There are so many ‘grenades’ aka lousy, poorly though policy/law changes it is hard to keep up.
And they know it.
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May 1, 2022 10:00am
- Nickc2
  
  Remember, If it wasn’t for Peters, He Puapua would never have seen the light of day and 3 Waters would never have gotten off the ground. He has a lot to answer for in the demise of NZ as we once knew it.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:42am
Maggy Wassilieff

How long will it take to repair the damage this government has caused?

At least 1 generation – 25 years.

I remember commenting to a teaching colleague in 2001 when NCEA was about to introduced that folks would realise in a few years it was a lousy qualification/assessment tool.

She replied (based on her years in the Education system) that nothing would be admitted for years and it would be at least 15 years before any change would occur (It’s been 20 years so far).

And for the way NZ teaches reading to new entrants, it has taken over 40 years for Governments to realise that the “whole Language” method is a bit of a dog.
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May 1, 2022 10:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The ‘whole language’ vs ‘phonics’ was always a bit of an artificial debate.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Like hell it was..
    
    I assume you didn’t have children attending NZ schools in the 1980s.
    
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    May 1, 2022 12:45pm
- Nickc2
  
  Ah, but don’t you feel proud that kids these days can speak and understand Te Reo? The fact that they can’t read, write and solve mathematical problems without a calculator is immaterial in the eyes of those in power within the Education Fraternity.
  Yes, they have failed a generation and what’s more, they don’t give a shit.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:48am
  - David Garrett
    
    Nick: It’s even worse than that…they don’t think they have failed at all…kids coming out of school functionally illiterate, but knowing all about the “principles of the treaty” and what a terrible dreadful thing colonization was.
    
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    May 1, 2022 2:54pm
oldfella

The weekly chuckle at US political cartoons, and some really bizarre media headlines. Enjoy.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/04/the-week-in-pictures-kleptocracy-edition.php
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May 1, 2022 10:06am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjNurxTip2U

A new tussle emerges in Europe.

The Aegean Sea has a lot of mineral wealth. Turkey’s economy is a dumpster fire. Turkish planes have violated Greek air space 124 times in recent weeks. Greece has stopped Turkey from participating in an upcoming NATO excercise. [ If Turkey invades, Greece will hopefully give them six of the best, trousers down. 4:06]
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May 1, 2022 10:12am
- kowtow
  
  Don’t forget they illegally occupy the north of Cyprus .
  
  The media bang on incessantly about “the occupied West Bank” , northern Cyprus ,not so much ,indeed if at all.
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:40am
  - rockape
    
    They would have occupied all of Cyprus in 1974 if it had been left to the un who were there. I got dragged out of the field on exercise in Germany to stop that happening.
    
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    May 1, 2022 2:01pm
  - curry4me
    
    That’s because the ‘wrong’ people are ‘occupying’ the West Bank.
    
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    May 1, 2022 10:44pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFmmSdTrcZU

Elon Musk Buys Twitter—A Win for China?

The announcement that Elon Musk has reached a deal to buy Twitter immediately drew speculation that Musk’s business interests in China could present a conflict of interest in his quest to make Twitter a more free speech platform. In this episode of China Uncensored, we look at what Musk’s business interests in China are, what Amazon founder Jeff Bezos has to say about the deal, and what other billionaires with social media platforms have business interests in China. [10:52]
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May 1, 2022 10:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

Stuff is running with an article about how poor folks are always going to stay poor if they can’t get money from Mum & Dad to buy a house.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/300575296/the-poor-become-poorer-when-you-dont-hope-to-inherit-how-do-you-get-on-the-property-ladder

Nowhere does the article spell out how else to get a foot on the property ladder…

For me & my brothers, it was obvious that we had to make our own way in the world…

so we got jobs and skills that will always be needed

For eldest bro – via an apprenticeship
For 2nd bro – through hard graft (legal & illegal)
For 3rd bro – by using his brains
For me – by maximising my free education and taking any work that was available.

Education and work are the way out of a familial poverty spiral.
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May 1, 2022 10:31am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Tell the young folk that these days and they just won’t believe you…
  
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  May 1, 2022 10:42am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But we were ‘appy.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:32am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You wouldn’t have a bluddy clue.
      
      Clearly you didn’t grow up in Castlecliff.
      
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      May 1, 2022 2:10pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Really? All four of my grandchildren are doing or have completed proper uni degrees. Three are boys. One is also a professional sportsman.
    
    The difference is parenting not children.
    
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    May 1, 2022 3:43pm
    - Black with a Vengeance
      
      The difference is culture.
      
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      May 1, 2022 5:58pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        One of them has a 50% Maori father who works in web design. Yes, you can call it culture but it is the sum of what is in your head and heart, what you value, what you understand and what you want. Race itself is irrelevant.
        
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        May 1, 2022 8:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There was a time when I had a full time job and two part time jobs. Sometimes banging in nearly 80 hours a week. That is why I have a house, a mortgaged rental, two boats, a caravan, and 3 vehicles.
  People half my age just don’t get it, and they never will.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:58am
  - MCōs
    
    You’ve got all that shit and still you spend half the day bitching and moaning.
    
    2 8
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    May 1, 2022 2:20pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bitching and moaning triggers the morons, it is fun
      
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      May 2, 2022 8:46am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  If Stuff had a clue about anything, which they don’t they would be asking why Maori who own vast areas of vacant land can’t build their own houses.
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:07pm
  - Hebe123
    
    The Maori land in front of my Bach is about 1300m2 and currently has grass about a metre long. It has 90 odd owners, presumably descended from one purchaser back in 1950s when the land was subdivided. I doubt I’ll ever lose my view to anyone building on it.
    
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    May 1, 2022 7:34pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Exactly. Stuff journalists don’t want to know that communal property is a monumental failure and that regulations destroy property rights, incentives, opportunities, wealth and lives. Their determined ignorance is matched only by their arrogance.
      
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      May 1, 2022 9:02pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        The problem about developing Maori land is not easy.
        All the 90 owners have to agree(if you can find them)
        After that lengthy process and you cant find all 90 owners then the majority have to apply to the Maori Land court for authority to build.
        
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        May 1, 2022 10:18pm
kowtow

Could I commend to the brethren herein assembled this latest from the excellent karl du fresne .

It touches on many of the issues already covered in today’s GD.

It is a recent speech of his to the Free Speech Union .

http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2022/04/on-threats-to-free-speech.html
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May 1, 2022 10:37am
Suze Wainwright

Co-governance isn’t really an issue.

All Maori will be informed how they are going to be co-governed and exactly which Maori will co-govern for them on their behalf.

Maori will be informed of this via the likes of Rawiri Waititi MP and a cabal of ruling tribal Maori elites. And by Tane and Maui they WILL like it! (I’m sure there are effective measures for dealing with any dissenting devices who don’t accept or respect certain mana).
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May 1, 2022 10:49am
- I remember when
  
  As Hongi Hika said at Waitangi.
  “The only reason I am going to sign is so that my people will get co-goverance in 2022.”
  
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  May 1, 2022 12:22pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Before that though I will eat and enslave or kill 1/3 of the Maori population in existence
    
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    May 1, 2022 12:54pm
Master Mariner

A good article from Interest,co,nz regarding supply Chains and NZ.
https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/115592/government-planning-nzs-first-ever%C2%A0comprehensive-freight-and-supply-chain
During Covid , The 2nd most important Minister I believe was the Minister of Transport.
Looks like he has finally awaken from his slumber and has been instructed his ” Job description”.

He has the power to commandeer Ports, Ships during the Pandemic crisis and should of exercised his powers and not been asleep at the wheel.

“The movement of goods to, from and around our country is essential for our society and economy to function and ﬂourish and impacts our quality of life,” Wood says.
Sure does,
The end of the line

“It also points out NZ is at the end of international trade routes, with 99% of the country’s imports and exports travelling via global shipping routes to reach consumers.”

Yep, We known that for 100’s of years since our ancestors have been sailing down to NZ. In fact the reason for 3 boats on NZ’s coat of arms.

How does NZ get people of his calibre in the position of Minister of Transport ?
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May 1, 2022 10:57am
- Batman
  
  Can you imagine the outrage from commenters on this blog if the Minister had begun commandeering ships and ports?
  
  The cries of “Jacinda’s communist coup!?!!!” would have been even louder than they were or are now.
  
  Even the general public would have been put off by that.
  
  Then there’s the issue of whether our small part of the global supply chain would have made any improvement by being run by Ministerial dictate. Even if good choices were made on our end, the global economy would have shrugged its shoulders at us and we would still have delays and shortages.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Any hint of the NZ government commandeering ships would have had the effect of no commercial ships arriving in NZ ports.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:33am
  - oldfella
    
    If it were run by this hopeless govt, ‘KiwiShips’ would have quickly become ‘KiwiSh*ts’.
    The kind of political effluent even 3Waters would struggle to flush away.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:44am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Ports yes, and ships was simply pointing out the powers amongst other things.
    The crisis of NZ Ports and their management and efficiency has left no choice but for the Big shippers to bypass NZ due delays ( Still is).
    The supply chain issue regarding shipping is a home grown monumental cock up.
    Read the report and NZ has only 13 Coastal vessels, Therein lies “supply chain” issues and throw in the issues of dysfunctional Boards and council controlled “ring ins” and you are left with only one result.
    
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    May 1, 2022 11:53am
    - Sparrow
      
      Have no wish to contradict a Master Mariner but the efficiency or otherwise of the port is not the full story regarding delays to the supply chain. For years the lines have contemplated using Australia as the feeder to NZ due to its small volumes. The breakup of the Tasman Accord allowed cross traders to carry containers between Australia and NZ thus giving them extra new revenue. Over recent news there has been a huge move in takeovers by the likes of Maersk and .MSC. I find it quite funny that in the 60s and 70,s people grumbled about the power of the conventional lines but today not a peek about the virtual monopoly the likes of Maersk have. I put that down to the loss of shipping journalists and the fact that there are so few NZ seafarers today. Dont just put the blame on the ports I agree there are too many. That was due to local parochial attitudes in the 60s and 70s everyone wanted a container crane.
      
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      May 1, 2022 3:16pm
- Taieri
  
  He has the power to commandeer Ports, Ships during the Pandemic crisis and should of exercised his powers and not been asleep at the wheel.
  ———–
  
  He can’t commandeer foreign flagged ships. And there’re no NZ flagged ships to commandeer as apart from the Cook Strait ferries, now that the tankers are gone, there’re only 3 NZ flagged merchant vessels left – 2 cement carriers and one container ship.
  
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  May 1, 2022 11:39am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep. Could of worded it better.
    At sea and busy so some excuse.
    
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    May 1, 2022 12:59pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Shipping is an efficient way to move goods around NZ.
  
  No Shit Sherlock!!!!
  
  That has been known for donkey’s years. Remove Cabotage and the overseas lines can move cargo at rates no NZ domiciled line can approach, so NZ Shipping disappears.
  
  What we need is some tax incentives to get people to set up shipping cos in NZ. Not el cheepo types of ships but real value added like Reefer Ships or Specialist Ships such as Heavy Lift vessels and man them with NZers.
  
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  May 1, 2022 1:50pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Interestingly, as far as I know, the container cranes in Wellington have not functioned since the 2016 Kaikoura earthquake.
  
  I wish Wood would commandeer these & get the fixed while he’s at it.
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dan Bongino. We have someone in NZ who does exactly the same – word soup waffle.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=375687664491784
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May 1, 2022 11:00am
surfing

Locals were saying this guy was a good person, unfairly targeted by the Australians….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rebels-gang-member-501-deportee-shane-kiwi-martin-charged-with-assaulting-woman-before-his-death/5ZRY3DS74TUOHOGWHU3N56YWPA/

You get the idea from the link text. He can’t defend himself so I won’t assume he is guilty.

However, I’ve never had assault charges bought against me. In fact, none of my friends have either .
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May 1, 2022 11:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ah yes,
  
  Canterbury Uni “Gang expert” Jarrod Gilbert co-authored Mr Martin’s autobiography
  “A rebel in exile” and tells us: that “he was a good man and a great mate”.
  
  https://twitter.com/JarrodGilbertNZ/status/1475204276892798977
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:24pm
oldfella

Up to 300 Kiwi women could have breast cancer and not know with the pandemic pushing back 50,000 mammograms.
That’s appalling, but I’m sure Angry Andy’s new health system will sort out the problem in a flash.
Probably faster if you’re a Maori wahine. /s
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May 1, 2022 11:40am
- septic skeptic
  
  Just heard an ad on the radio offering free flu vax for Maori over 55.
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:07pm
- Hebe123
  
  Interesting though – I called them in January as it was 2 years since my last. Got an appt for the following week. I suspect a bit of proactivity wouldn’t go amiss from those who are overdue.
  
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  May 1, 2022 7:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How long will it take to charge an Abrams Tank, Joe?
https://rumble.com/v11z2ye-biden-unintentionally-explains-why-were-going-to-lose-the-next-war.html?
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May 1, 2022 11:52am
- septic skeptic
  
  Come on Steve, current battery technology could give the new eAbrams a range of several hundred metres between charges.
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:04pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The tank weighs over 60 tons!
    
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    May 2, 2022 8:47am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Imagine the logistics of battlefield charging stations in the brave new zero emissions world. Take out the power stations and game over.
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:54pm
- cjn
  
  Considering that the American military (and other military) aims to create rubble, dust and corpses it is Orwellian to claim that it will be environmentally friendly.
  
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  May 1, 2022 4:00pm
I remember when

Just listened to an item on the BBC News discussing affects on Tea Plantations as a result of a rapid change to organic fertilisers.
The impact of a total immediate changeover was not fully understood or expected.
They expected a 20% loss in tea production but thought an increase in sales value would compensate.
When the market didn’t respond as expected, it resulted in a loss of income and profitability.

Enthusiasm instead of market research. No wonder they call rookies ‘green.’
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May 1, 2022 12:03pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Let me guess. Public sector folk with no skin in the game decided that the market would respond positively to organics, and that’s what the private sector folk had to do.
  
  Reminiscent of NZ & GE.
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:02pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Another ill thought-out Green initiative
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/20/sri-lanka-fertiliser-ban-president-rajapaksa-farmers-harvests-collapse
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:27pm
I remember when

Was talking to a specialist who was wondering why they sat through Hospital meetings that planned for a pandemic.
Why, they asked, does what they planned and discussed seem to have been ignored during Covid.
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May 1, 2022 12:07pm
- Rodion Raskolnikov
  
  Because, while there is a virus, there is no “pandemic.” Why else would they formulate a pandemic plan, but then totally disregard it?
  
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  May 1, 2022 12:55pm
I remember when

While it is great to be able to watch Labour try to excavate their way out of the 3 Waters hole, isn’t this a subject that National should have been fronting.
Especially, when it was apparent that Councils were having increasing expertise recruitment and cost problems.
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May 1, 2022 12:16pm
Loddenthinks

Continuing this socialist government’s drive to make the government the only authority figure and problem-solver (my emphasis where bolded):

“The Children’s Commissioner has called on the Government to step in after a spate of crimes allegedly committed by children as young as 7 over the school holidays.

“It needs to happen now because these young ones, I’m sure they’re hurting inside,” Judge Frances Eivers told the Herald on Sunday.

“They’re just babies, they’re just young kids.”

At least 45 children or teenagers have allegedly been behind eight crimes such as break-ins and ram raids reported over the school holidays.

Twenty-three people are either facing charges in the District Court or Youth Court, or referred to Youth Aid – with the other half still on the run.

The holidays started with two teenage boys being seriously assaulted during a party at a Remuera home on the Thursday before Easter and it ended yesterday with a group of youths ram-raiding an Icebreaker clothing store near Auckland Airport.”

The Children’s Commissioner mentions nothing about parental responsibility, instead blaming it on Covid-19 and “rangatahi not being at school, or kids being at a loose end.” So, nothing’s anybody’s fault, and only the government can step in and fix it. Got it.
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May 1, 2022 1:09pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  One might be forgiven for assuming that the concern of the Children’s Commissioner is for the welfare of the children.
  
  1 6
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  May 1, 2022 1:15pm
- Nickc2
  
  Take a look at this link pertaining to the Judge in question. I don’t know about you Lodden but I think people of her ilk are part of the problem, not solvers of it.
  https://www.districtcourts.govt.nz/about-the-courts/judges-at-work/administering-justice-through-a-cultural-lens/
  
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  May 1, 2022 1:18pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Great idea to teach kids that can’t speak or write English properly another language and tell them it’s theirs. That’s bound to work wonders.
    
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    May 1, 2022 9:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “The most startling thing I’ve found since I’ve come to Parliament is our education statistics,” Luxon said of one of the topics he’d like to focus on.
  
  He said it was worrying that, by Term 2 of 2021, only about 60 per cent of students around the country attended school regularly.
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/12/19/christopher-luxon-weve-let-standards-slip-in-education/
  
  We have folks who are being paid big $$$$$ to ensure that children are attending school or getting a regular education.
  
  If 40% of our school children are not regularly engaged in education, then some folks are being paid for doing stuff-all.
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:02pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  In previous lifetimes they would be seriously hurting outside and reconsidering their values and actions.
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:33pm
  - greybeard
    
    Exactly.
    As I posted yesterday: Cane the kids, charge the parents.
    And publish their names and photos ( kids and parents ).
    I bet this rubbish would stop overnight.
    
    11 1
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    May 1, 2022 4:38pm
Black with a Vengeance

Randomly got up this morning and wandered outside to be confronted by an amazingly bright planetary alignment.

Jupiter, Venus, Mars and Saturn with Neptune lurking invisibly but fairly much in a straight line.

God, it was impressive!!! Kind of puts our petty universal human condition into perspective…
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May 1, 2022 1:10pm
- Rodion Raskolnikov
  
  “God” it was impressive? Indeed. To the atheist its just a perspectival phenomenon involving the relative positions of several agglomerations of matter, of zero intrinsic meaning and merely a result of random physical interactions. Sure, mathematical science can describe it, but it cannot approach an account of the feeling such a sight engenders in most of us. The fact that you commented on its beauty really actually goes to the heart of what you call the “petty” human condition, in terms of the aesthetic value we recognise in our surroundings. I’d imagine if you weren’t a human with an immaterial essence, it would have had little (or much less) effect on you.
  
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  May 1, 2022 2:43pm
  - Swifty
    
    Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Rodion. But I do deny them my essence.
    
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    May 1, 2022 8:22pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Bit more obvious than Matariki/ The Pleiades will be on June 24th.
  
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  May 1, 2022 3:32pm
- rangitoto
  
  Neptune isn’t hard to spot with 10 x 50 binoculars.
  
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  May 1, 2022 4:43pm
septic skeptic

I hope this guys role is on ACTs review list when it comes to analyzing what government spending is producing and at what cost.
4 0
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May 1, 2022 2:01pm
Maggie Pie

So, tomorrow is Monday again!

I can’t keep living like this.
9 2
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May 1, 2022 4:41pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Have you realised that you change out of your PJs each morning only to put them on again at night?
  
  9 1
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  May 1, 2022 5:44pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not much choice Maggs!
    My partner suggested I take his mother to Tindall’s over the weekend while he went back to stock up the maimai for next weekend.
    Honestly, she’s the only woman I know that insists on Bloody-Mary’s for breakfast. And I’m doing the 11 – 7 tonite. No rest for the wicked she reckons 🙁
    
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    May 1, 2022 6:34pm
Jethrod

My God…..10 to 12 minutes on Newshub about climate at 6 o’clock News.
The change of topic is amazing.?….leave 3 Waters and Hey poo poo alone.
Hit the climate with Tim Naish and James Shaw giving their OPINION
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May 1, 2022 6:14pm
than

Almost $100 million down the drain and the stats get even worse
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/128306867/mori-even-more-overrepresented-in-prisons-despite-98m-strategy
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May 1, 2022 6:29pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  There is no problem this Government cannot make worse usually by wasting other people’s money in the process.
  
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  May 1, 2022 9:17pm

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