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November 30, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 November 2022

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General Debate

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Yvette

“Co-governance”
A gaslighting PM? – or this time has she been gas lit

Martin Luther King Jr. said “I have a dream …”
Here is just an idea … OK, just a little idea

A little Background –

…arguably, Labour is already running a system of “co-governance” within its own Government with the 15-strong Māori caucus having chalked up considerable policy victories.
Led by deputy Labour leader Kelvin Davis, it comprises 15 members — what Justice Minister Kiritapu Allan refers to as the “first 15.” Labour’s Māori caucus also holds six of the seven Māori electorate seats and boasts six ministers.
It’s known that Parker had to face down that vigorous Māori caucus — which had lined up with powerful iwi interests — to ensure co-governance was not inserted into the Resource Management Act replacement legislation.

It was a theme developed by Chris Trotter in his article yesterday in which he questioned whether Labour has become a co-governed party. – Thomas Cranmer, Cranmer’s Substack, “Mahuta ditches ‘no surprises’ policy” [1]

So, it is – “questioned whether Labour has become a co-governed party.”

And the little idea is – yes, Labour is being “co-governed”
But in fact there seems to be more “co-operation” (or, indeed: co-llusion) between Mahuta and Eugene Sage [2], than equitable “co-governance” between Mahuta and Jacinda Ardern

So, the rest of the little idea – yes, Labour is being “co-governed”, but it is not working very well

Thomas Cranmer –
Who knows how this will play out. There is a general expectation that the Bill will be sent back to the ‘committee of the whole’ for the entrenchment provision to be removed but Mahuta and the Māori caucus have been notably quiet on the issue. Maybe the provision will be put into a stand-alone ‘anti-privatisation’ bill which will stand or fall on its own merits. Whatever the outcome, it may give more insight into the extent to which the country is being co-governed [1]
___________
[1] https://cranmer.substack.com/p/mahuta-ditches-no-surprises-policy?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
[2] Nanaia Mahuta as the responsible minister, however, knew exactly what was going on. …
At some point after that, the discussion between the Greens and Labour turned to a 60 percent threshold instead, something they could get over the line without needing any others.
Sage told RNZ there had been “negotiations” with the minister, but wouldn’t put a date on it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/479745/power-play-three-waters-anti-privatisation-blunder-adds-to-storm-of-controversy
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November 30, 2022 8:02am
- Nickc2
  
  “Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive…..” (Sir Walter Scott)
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:38am
  - Harry Knuts
    
    Deceive is a very apt word in these times with the current govt. Smoke and mirrors. Seems their on their own agenda and screw democracy and the people of NZ. Only a few Elite will benefits out of all this deceiving.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:06am
  - oldfella
    
    Nickc2: what’s that quote in te reo? How else can we understand it? //
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:50am
    - Nickc2
      
      te mana whakahaere (co-governance (control))
      
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      November 30, 2022 11:33am
- pdm
  
  Yvette it is my view that Willie Jackson is the main driver of the (so called) Maori Caucus.
  
  I doubt Kelvin Davis has the nous or the energy for such leadership.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:50am
  - Simon
    
    “Yvette it is my view that Willie Jackson is the main driver of the (so called) Maori Caucus.”
    
    Iwi puppet. Jackson will be getting his instructions directly. The Iwis themselves will be paying for top shelf legal advice / strategy from one of the big law firms.
    
    Labo cabinet are mostly controlled clowns.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:22am
    - Nickc2
      
      Don’t tell me he’s getting legal advice from another Mahuta Corp Subsidiary?
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:36am
  - Harry Knuts
    
    It’s a political party of their own within the Labour party.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:32am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It has arms within the Green Party and the National Party, too.
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Special K will know of the ‘procedures’
    He will know what can be done and what can’t.
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:29am
- Rusty
  
  @Yvette
  
  Some cynics may say under MMP that Labour and NZ first had a form of co-governance with Winston Peters as deputy PM.
  
  Yet we know that it became a disaster.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:14am
Scott

This government appears to change the name of every public sector organisation to a Maori name, commits it to sustainability and equity and everything it does becomes worse.

Take the NZ Transport now known as Waka Kotahi. Under its watch the road network has become almost impassible.

A month ago I stayed a night in Taupo. Driving south I was stopped just south of Taupo. The road is closed, state highway one on Sunday morning is closed. I had to use navigation to go back north then drive around Lake Taupo on the western side to finally get to Turangi, adding an hour and considerable frustration to the journey.

Yesterday I was driving south from Masterton. It’s road cones and 50kms per hour almost all the way to Carterton. It’s been like that for months. No urgency to fix the roads and resume normal highway speeds, it’s almost like they are happy to slow us down?

I get south of Carterton and behold new road works and now we are at 30kms per hour!

I turn off to Martinborough and it’s orange cones and reduced speed again because someone has installed a pedestrian island and we all have to slow down for that.

In Martinborough it’s little better as the secondary route back north has been washed out in one place and we are back to orange cones and one lane!

The message appears to be: come to the Wairarapa and enjoy the orange cones as you crawl slowly around the province. Just allow plenty of time.
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November 30, 2022 8:04am
- Tomtoddy
  
  Its the anti-car policy that goes to the top of this govt. The elites have decided “no cars” and you and I will be forced to meekly submit.
  
  Will it change after the election is moot. It will take strong leadership and that is not fully evident yet.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    It won’t change .
    
    BTW this anti car thing is happening across the west .
    It’s govt driven , ideological and anti democratic .
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:48am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      All part of Agenda 2030.
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:04am
    - Cinematic
      
      And rooted in a total lack of understanding of the real costs of ev use both environmental and economic.
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:57am
- Ghost
  
  A lot of the names you see today actually have zero to do with Jacinda. For example NZTA was given the name Waka Kotahi under the Clark government.
  
  Welcome to roads under labour. They ignore maintenance so that the next national government have to repair it. But strangely down here the NZTA roads are alright, it is the council ones that are shit and full of potholes.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:20am
- Yvette
  
  Scott – This government appears to change the name of every public sector organisation to a Maori name
  
  A ‘classic’ example may be Oranga Tamariki — Ministry for Children
  Often confused with Whānau Ora (CEO John Tamihere, now President of the Maori Party, Te Pāti Maori) and so Oranga Tamariki when first given that name, and the English “Ministry for Children” dropped, began to be considered a Māori only department, and media coverage seems to emphasise that – a Māori-predominant usage, along with administration oversight changes, so it appears to have lost non-Maori empathy and indeed a degree of prior public interest – which doesn’t assist its work at all – be that a racist reflection or not.
  Think “child uplifts”, “Rotorua’s Fenton Street motel ghetto” or “neighbours from Hell” media reports, plus “Oranga Tamariki” now being abbreviated to “OT”, further distances it even from being “public sector organisation with a Maori name”
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:20am
  - Ghost
    
    Ministry for Vulnerable Children, Oranga Tamariki was the name under national, labour got rid of the vulnerable children part.
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:47am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Everything is now run by useless cnuts of both sexes. Nothing gets done but costs the earth. The southern approach to Whangarei has been roadworks doing nothing for 3-4 years. Nobody cares.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The road cones seem to be breeding.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:33am
- AitchW
  
  Labour knows its days are numbered. It will do everything it can to destroy the economy before it is eviscerated in order to leave a mess for the incoming National government. Remember Cullen gloating about leaving the cupboard bare? This mob will make Cullen look like a bumbling amateur.
  
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  November 30, 2022 7:56pm
Warren

Continuous Disclosure: Think morgage rates ere high now? Economist Tony Alexander warns of 9.5% peak. The floating rate morgage could go as high as 9.5% by mid-way through next year while popular one and two year morgage rates are likely to stay higher for longer.
That’s the predictions of independent Economist Tony Alexander.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/continuous-disclosure-think-mortgage-rates-are-high-now-economist-tony-alexander-warns-of-95-peak/ER6QI367RJGKFIFAAQR2RNWL4U/
Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister with Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson might think they are smart denying they are soft on crime and point the finger at the National Party for not funding the police for years as they put it they have many other problems with morgage rates that they can’t blame on anyone else apart from themselves.
If Tony Alexander is right it won’t take long before some that vote Labour will crying povertybecause they can’t afford to pay their morgage.
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November 30, 2022 8:06am
- yossarian
  
  But they’ll still vote Labour because Jacinda saved 80,000 lives and she looks so great on the cover of the Women’s Weekly.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:43am
  - leoj
    
    ….because of their “superior intellect”, most of her support will be from women, for the brilliant reason that Jaspinda is a woman.
    
    It really is that simple (which also explains her supporters).
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:05am
- pdm
  
  Warren I think floating rates of 9.5% are conservative especially if inflation goes as far as 10/12%.
  
  I would not rule inflation that high out under this Government and Orr combined.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We have not seen anything yet. I well remember the days of 12%. When I got separated and divorced I had to get a second mortgage from Canterbury Building Society.
  22%. As I said, we ain’t seen nothing yet. If Labour win the Election we truly will be New Zimbabwe.
  10 Trillion dollar notes. Yes, I have one. It is worth about NZ$4.20.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:39am
  - Jack5
    
    The outlook is bloody 🌧 Orrible.
    
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    November 30, 2022 1:37pm
- igm
  
  Remember working two jobs, sometimes three, to keep kids at good schools, pay 24% mortgage, set up first business . . . survived, and now reap the benefits.
  Mention second jobs to today’s little petals and all hell breaks loose.
  
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  December 1, 2022 3:12am
Pavel

What’s this crap about raising the retirement age and how it will discriminate against women, pacific and Moari people? Will it not discriminate against the rest of us? Let’s be honest, raising the retirement age to 67 will discriminate against every single person in the country.
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November 30, 2022 8:07am
- Chris2
  
  Given women on average live longer than men, how on earth are they being discrimated against?
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:31am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Well obviously, they will be poor for longer. Men dying sooner will therefore be less poor!
    
    Obvious Sexism!
    
    See the power imbalance inherent in the patriarchy!
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:56am
- amospicton
  
  No, raising the pension age doesn’t discriminate against everyone. The pension is an imposition of every tax payer in the country. We live longer, on average, and so we should be able to earn a living for longer. There’s no reason for struggling middle income earning families to be paying pensions to 65 year olds who can and often are still earning. We need to start to get our collective heads around the idea that we cannot live beyond our means. As we age as a country the pension as it is now structured becomes a huge burden.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:36am
  - pdm
    
    amos – bang on.
    
    I am 76 and still work a few hours a week – not because I have to but because my employer asks me to. Why does he do that you ask?
    
    Well I turn up on time sober and not affected by drugs, tidily dressed, am polite to customers where I am and I don’t leave until the days work is completed.
    
    Personally I believe the retirement age should be increased to 70 in steps over say 10 or even 15 years.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:01am
    - NothingLeft
      
      why not all at once? Why stage it? Unfair to people 10 or 15 years younger, and very damaging to NZ’s economic future. Just do it immediately. and let those in the affected age gap look for work or go on dole. Rip that band aid off.
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:18am
      - leoj
        
        So, someone born on 31 December 1957 would be eligible on 31/12/2022 whereas someone born one day later, on 1 January 1958 would not be eligible until 1/1/2028.
        That would go down like a cup of cold sick.
        Am thinking you have already got yours.
        
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        November 30, 2022 11:22am
    - rouppe
      
      Well I’m 60 and I’d like to retire now so I can travel for months at a time.
      
      Changing it to 70 because you have no other aspirations for the rest of your life is just as stupid as me saying I want it from 60 because I want to travel the world .
      
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      November 30, 2022 12:30pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        I like the Canadian system.
        You can get a pension at 65 but if you delay retirement until 70 you get a bigger pension.
        
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        November 30, 2022 2:41pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Ra Henare, you already have that option. Collect super at 65 and stick it straight into a savings account, which you don’t touch until you’re 70. Then you pay yourself out of that, on top of your super.
        
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        November 30, 2022 2:55pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    So amos, Governments should be able to tax us to pay into a pension scheme with a promised start date, and then change the rules because they fuck it up? Time after time? If that’s the case, Government pension schemes should be scrapped completely and it should be left to individuals to provide for themselves.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:17am
    - amospicton
      
      We don’t pay into pension scheme. That’s a common misconception. We pay tax and it is not put aside to pay future pensions. It’s spent (or overspent) on current outgoings including pension payments. KiwiSaver does ringfence contributions, the pension does not.
      
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      November 30, 2022 11:05am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Understood amos, but promises are made, taxes get put up, and they spend those taxes on things that the tax wasn’t raised for. So, lets call it for what it is, successive Governments stealing taxpayers retirement funds. Put the money aside. Even though I have plenty to retire on (I’ve retired early and unretired a couple of times!), I will still take back that which was taken from me when the time comes.
        
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        November 30, 2022 11:48am
      - Jack5
        
        By bringing up the inevitable problems of superannuation for an ageing population, National likely puts Winston Peters back into Parliament.
        
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        November 30, 2022 1:40pm
  - Chris R
    
    You assume all 65+ year olds receive National Super. I am not alone at 69 years old in not taking the super. I still work and receive a decent enough income so why ought I dine off the sweat of younger generations? If I do end my working days in the next five years I shall re-examine my needs then.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:26am
    - Phronesis
      
      Take the money, give it away if you want, but almost anything you do would be better than letting this Govt keep it and waste it.
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I was still working in April this year, aged 70.
    Paying secondary Tax on my Super. Man they took a big bite.
    I would still be working but the landlord wanted to change the factory so did not renew the lease. Business closed and all the machinery is in storage.
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:44am
    - Ra Henare
      
      They didnt take a big bite!!
      Some hyperbole loose in your thinking.
      
      Secondary tax is just an adjustment so that you pay the correct amount on your TOTAL income for the year!!
      
      So either pay at the Secondary rate or pay a VERY LARGE tax bill at the end of the year
      
      I am amazed that so called reasonable thinking Kiwis, dont understand wht a secondary tax rate is. Are they woefully ignorant or just like to moan/skite about how much they are earning
      
      PS. I was running a Tourist hotel for 2 years when I was 7o/71 yo 12 hours a day 6 days a week…
      Loved every minute(well most minutes) of it.
      
      Would do it again even tho now 76
      
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      November 30, 2022 2:49pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  It’s the “gap” – gender, ethnicity that develops from the individual choices people make (eg child minding, tertiary education) that result in lower paid unpaid work over their lifetimes.
  
  Academics & the Left conflate these individuals choices into conspiracy theories to say these people are collectively disadvantaged (using selected historical statistics).
  
  Then the case is argued to move from equality of opportunity to equality of outcomes.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:36am
- Cassandra
  
  Our generous system discriminates against everyone under 65 – 67 should be implemented now.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:36am
  - Warren
    
    This is a policy that Bill English took to the Election in 2017 so people have known this was Natioal policy since then.
    There is thousand of people over 67 years of age still working now.
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’m 67, and due to a range of circumstances, I need to work part-time. I don’t mind that; you have to do what you have to do. I don’t see a rise in the age of eligibility for superannuation as a problem; we have an ageing population, and life expectancy is growing significantly.
    
    Setting a change to the age fifteen years ahead gives plenty of time for people to prepare, and is not at all unreasonable.
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:59am
    - Jimbob
      
      I retired at 53 and are about 1-2 years from the pension. I have have passive income and don’t need to work, however I have spent twenty years learning how the world works, geopolitics and macro economics. It is incredibly interesting, I use this with technical and mathematical models to trade futures and ETF’s. I can tell you that this crap happening all over the world is far from over. We gave 5-6 years to go before better times, don’t become a causality of this insane experiment.
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:55am
- Prince
  
  So not getting ‘free’ Govt payouts is now ‘discrimination’ ?
  No wonder our economy is the basket case it is.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:43am
- Ehlana
  
  Stats NZ has life expectancy at birth of:
  73.4 years for Māori males,
  77.1 years for Māori females,
  75.4 years for Pacific males,
  79.0 years for Pacific females,
  81.0 years for European males,
  84.5 for European females,
  85.1 years for Asian males,
  87.9 years for Asian females.
  
  The gap between Maori and others has been diminishing, so this should be less of a problem in future.
  
  But I really can’t see how raising the age to 67 is going to be horrendously worse for one group than another, based on the figures above. It’s still two years.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:46am
  - RockyJ
    
    The New Zealand health system is said to be institutionally racist. These kinds of statistics are said to prove this.
    
    If this is true then the racism is very specific. It appears to be only directed at Maori and Pacifica, not Asians. How do they manage to do this?
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:57am
    - Ghost
      
      New Zealand health system was based on who needed the treatment, so once you re1ch the points needed you get the operation. That was until labour introduced an apartheid health system, one for Māori, and one for everyone else.
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:02am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The emphasis should be on telling Māori folk to take better care of their health – lay off booze, fags and drugs and start eating an Asian diet.
    
    Still, the life expectancy of a Maori male is longer than that of a Glaswegian male (73.1 years) or a Russian (72.8)
    
    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/life-expectancy/life-expectancy-in-scotland/2018-2020#:~:text=Average%20life%20expectancy%20in%20the,Glasgow%20City%20(78.3%20years).
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:06am
  - leoj
    
    The 73.4 years for maori is bogus.
    There are no full-blooded maori in existence.
    What if you are one-thirty second maori?
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:15am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      The race is irrelevant to longevity. It is the culture that shortens life.
      
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      November 30, 2022 4:59pm
- cmm
  
  There are already calls for different retirement ages based on race. Reduce it for Maori, increase for non-Maori.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:48am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    That does seem fair. It would also be fair if people who paid more taxes get a larger superannuation payment (like in the USA).
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:58am
    - OlderChas
      
      Yes info. I believe your super payments in USA are worked on a percentage of your 6 highest earning years (ascertained by the amount of tax you declared that you owed.)
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:55am
  - backster
    
    73.4 years for Māori males,
    77.1 years for Māori females,…..Yeah but what is the expectancy for Maori elite…..ie, Tipene O’Regan.the late Whina Cooper, and others whose life choices reflect that of their European ancestry.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:15am
  - NothingLeft
    
    If you are going to have different age of access based on race then you should clearly also change payment based on average tax paid by race. Race based differential treatment is after all double plus good.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:23am
  - Opie
    
    We are dumb enough and racist enough to implement this.
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:38am
- cas
  
  We were watching 3 news last night and off they went presenting the argument that it shouldn’t be raised. We were left to wonder in vain for the opposing argument of what happens if you don’t.
  
  This followed some biased reporting from Mani Dunlop on the lunchtime programme about something, which didn’t present a counter argument and then of course 3 news highlighted poor old Chris Luxon’s electorate office in detail without examining the detail behind any of the others.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:57am
  - nathie
    
    To think Newshub’s Jenna Lynch gets paid to work on prepping only one story, the whole day, ready for the 6pm news, as a “gotcha” against Chris Luxon?
    
    (If so, talk about lazy! That surely wouldn’t have taken more than 1 or 2 hours max to research and then produce)!
    
    When throughout the day (yesterday) radio and print media explored this issue from every angle and finally conceded it’s a “non-story” (because that’s the rules – well who sets the rules, the Govt of the day!)
    
    Radio and Print media even talked to people other than politicians for diverse views, but “lazy” Jenna did nothing of the sort, instead she stuck to her agenda.
    
    It’s kinda curious how Newshub’s Chief Political Reporters over the years seem to be promoted more on their ability to be controversial (“gotchas”)!
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:26am
    - Yabster
      
      hard to say but I nearly prefer Tova- esp with the sound off….
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:19am
- Nickc2
  
  Very true! However, the Govt’s sucking up to Maori and Pacifica for votes.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:00am
- artemisia
  
  When this and similar issues are in the media, and people are interviewed about not enough food on the table etc, nobody ever seems to ask about the circumstances. One person interviewed yesterday said she could not survive without interest free loans from WINZ for car repairs and a stove. So there is a car and an own home. There’s a back story but nobody asks.
  
  Also nobody is ever interviewed who says, I’m on the pension and get along OK.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:11am
- MCōs
  
  Regardless of ethnicity today’s super-annuitant is paid by today’s taxpayer.
  Young people pay tax so that 65 & 66 year olds will get a pension which wont be there when their turn comes round.
  When National Superannuation started it was kicked in at 60, wasn’t taxed and was 80% of the the average wage, for a married couple. To pay for it income tax shot up.
  I believe America has some sort of system where you forward towards your own pension.
  Why has nobody thought of that here?
  Personal responsibility and all that.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:14am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Uuum Kiwisaver? Similar to USA 401k’s
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:25am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    There’s KiwiSaver, and if you want to save more than that you are of course free to do do so.
    
    However, it would be impossible to switch overnight to a system where everybody had to fund the whole of their own pension and nobody got anything from younger taxpayers. Nobody over the age of about 50 has enough time to do that, so contemporary taxpayers would still have to fund older people’s pensions for now, at the same time as funding their own for the future.
    
    So if this change were to be made, it would have to be done with many years’ notice, and impose a double burden on taxpayers in the meantime. Not an easy sell politically.
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Some years ago a study was done on the mortality rates of Maori and non-Maori Mormons.
  
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4018993/
  
  Surprise, surprise!!!!!..
  
  There was no difference in their mortality rates/age.
  
  Maori mortality was much lower among Mormons than non-Mormons suggesting that environmental, rather than genetic factors, play a predominant role in the relatively high overall Maori mortality.
  
  Even though many of the Maori mormons were smokers, they still had similar life expectancies to the non-maori Mormons…(presumably because they didn’t wreck their health through overindulging in booze, food and violence)
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:06am
Benedict Yu

A new low for that awful cartoonist in Stuff. Ridiculing Luxon for his expressed views on violent crime.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/94869389/sharon-murdoch-cartoons
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November 30, 2022 8:13am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Stop looking at the cartoons every click you give them encourages them. They can’t differentiate between those clapping or those disgusted by it. IMHO.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:17am
  - Frank Thomas
    
    Never read Stuffed…..use to occasionally do the daily quiz but can’t be arsed even doing that now….
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:44am
    - Cinematic
      
      I have linked straight to the sports section. They have some good sports journalism and it neatly avoids the BS.
      
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      November 30, 2022 10:59am
- crikey
  
  Thank you BY, but I refuse to look at any of the crap from that person.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:17am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Absolutely appalling, but par for the course. Murdoch’s bio says that she used to work as a “pooper-scooper”; now she flings shit and bile at a page and calls it a cartoon.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:19am
  - Jimbo666
    
    Sounds to me that’s she’s still actively employed in her trade!
    
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    November 30, 2022 8:28am
    - Don Beckett
      
      I though cartoons were supposed to be funny? That woman has a serious humour deficiency – or she’s just a lousy spiteful bitch. Probably both.
      
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      November 30, 2022 11:17am
- rouppe
  
  I notice the introduction of the prominent cheek. A la Muldoon
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:27am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Sharon Murdoch has a main line from the PM jugular vein.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:33am
- Prince
  
  Recently I had some correspondence with Stuff, asking why there was no diversity in their cartoonist’s views.
  The response was they did not direct their cartoonists on topics to address. Also Luxon has made policy announcements so had drawn media attention.
  The fact that Stuff employs only left-leaning cartoonists says a lot about their commitment to ‘diversity’.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:48am
  - Lance
    
    Their idea of diversity is to draw up a hit job on Act one day and then National the next day, rinse and repeat
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:18am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Prince it’s diversity of everything but thoughts
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:19am
- I remember when
  
  BY:
  Excellent Sharon Murdoch cartoon showing how bad the crime situation has become.
  Great to see Luxon’s enthusiasm for tackling the job overcoming it will be.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:58am
- ISeeRed
  
  I choose not to read Stuff. Why do you?
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:25am
- nathie
  
  Ah hah … so Stuff cartoonist Sharon Murdoch is another excellent example of someone that gaslights. Oh dear, how uncool!
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:39am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Murdoch is just another member of the entirely vacuous Ardern hen party. As is the Stuff leadership.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:55am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict – instead of Luxon it should be Ardern depicted, and running off-frame Hipkins.
  What an abortion of a cartoon, Sid Scales and Sir David Lowe would both cry
  
  Multi million dollar package to tackle retail crime and reoffending
  • New fog cannon subsidy scheme set up. Government to provide $4000 for all small shops and dairies in New Zealand who want a fog cannon installed, with shops to pay the balance
  – RT HON JACINDA ARDERN, HON CHRIS HIPKINS, 28 NOVEMBER 2022
  Beehive,got.nz Releases
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/multi-million-dollar-package-tackle-retail-crime-and-reoffending
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:42am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Sharon Murdoch should go back to being a pooper scooper at dog shows as she may be good at that.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:16am
- Jim
  
  I’m with you BY. It would be easier to tolerate such poor satirical artistry, if it wasn’t so blatantly partisan.
  
  I guess we won’t be buying the Sharon Murdock 2023 cartoon calendar!
  
  Credit where credit is due, I guess trading left wing political BS is still a good dry weather gig for someone who used to be a dog poop scooper.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:02am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  That is disgusting, unfair, partisan.
  I checked, but I avoid clicking Stuff links as I don’t want to contribute even a view-click.
  
  How can this person turn the issue into being about Luxon and National? Why not hold the criminals, the gangs or the Police or judiciary to account?
  The cartoonist must be demented tribal-Labour to turn it around like that – even implying Luxon makes it worse? (fanning flames).
  
  Personally, Jacinda hugging a blood dripping corpse, hanging limply in her embrace, would speak more to me about where the accountability ultimately lies, and how hollow and failed are the politics of kindness in managing feral and out of control elements of society.
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:57pm
Tony Stuart

Remember when the Labour government gave a company owned by life member of the Mongrel Mob, Harry Tam, $2.75 million to get MM members off methamphetamine? One of the “graduates” of the course has been in the news:

A gang member who attended the controversial Mongrel Mob-led Kahukura meth rehab programme has been jailed for a violent and “chilling” meth-fuelled attack on an RSE worker.

Michael Skipper, 32, a member of the Mongrel Mob’s Notorious chapter, appeared in Hastings District Court on Friday after pleading guilty to a charge of injuring with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

On the morning of March 22 Skipper was in the Raureka Dairy in Hastings when three RSE workers entered the store. Skipper followed the men, taunting them about wearing face masks, then asked one of the men for a fight.

Posturing aggressively before the men, Skipper punched the man in the face. The three men tried to run from the store. Two of the men were able to escape, but Skipper prevented the man he had punched from leaving. He trapped him in an aisle of the dairy and began a prolonged assault.

When the victim fell to the ground, Skipper kicked him forcefully and repeatedly in the head and body, as the shopkeeper yelled at him to stop.

While the victim was on the ground and defenceless, Skipper jumped with two feet in the air and forcefully landed both feet on the victim’s face. He did that again, before leaving the victim writhing in pain.

The victim, a 29-year-old man from Vanuatu, suffered a fractured eye socket, bruising to his right lung, and bruises and swelling to his face and ribs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/130585419/gang-member-who-attended-mobled-drug-rehab-course-bashed-bystander-in-methfuelled-attack

There was so much bad news about the government last week that this story slipped past unnoticed. That’s somewhat unfortunate.

The Crown Prosecutor in the case noted that Skipper’s attendance at the “rehab programme” had been “wholly unsuccessful”, which will surprise no one. Despite the inevitability that the course would not achieve its aims, our benevolent government threw $2.75 million of taxpayer money at it.

Actions have consequences, and Skipper will have a few years in the pokey to reflect on his. However in the run-up to next year’s election, voters need to be reminded of things like this, where Labour has thrown OUR money at a host of lost causes, whereas important things like housing, health and education are being run into the ground. The consequences of Labour’s actions will be a crushing defeat in the 2023 General Election.
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November 30, 2022 8:16am
- rouppe
  
  And…
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2210/S00040/drug-rehabilitation-facilities-enabling-gang-activity.htm
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:30am
- All_on_Red
  
  Smacks of a racist attack.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:49am
- Inandout
  
  TS, and where is the accounting for that ‘donation’ to the MM? There is a sense that there is something quite smelly here and perhaps (Mafia term) protection money, or perhaps payback is involved. But in the final analysis the Police I speak with are astounded and there are of course rumours.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:19am
- nathie
  
  If that assault wasn’t bad enough (and he could have ended up killing his victim), at the end of the article it says he had assaulted his daughter the day before but yet he received a discount for his guilty plea for the assault on the migrant worker and was only sentenced to three years and nine months in prison (what, out in two years then?)!
  
  Wouldn’t a French guillotine be more appropriate for a violent thug who is destroying people’s lives, mental health and well-being?
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:54am
- Matt Long
  
  Presumably the judiciary are soaking a bus ticket as we speak.
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:28pm
- Nickc2
  
  You can imagine the uproar in our MSM if the RSE worker had kicked the shit out of a Mongrel Mob member. I’ll write the headline for ya:
  High on Meth RSE Worker Viciously Attacks Innocent Young Mongrel Mob Member.
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:37pm
Tricati

I noticed a number of pathetic attempts to discredit Luxon on Newshub and TV3 news over is office rental arrangements.
It reminds me of a quote, from Margaret Thatcher I think, that goes; ‘If they attack you personally, it means they have not a single political argument left’.
Sums up Labour’s position perfectly, and aligns with Steven Joyce’s warning on Hosking’s show last week that Labour will go after Luxon as they have nothing else. Especially after a week of entrenchment, death of a dairy worker, $9000 a week consultant on TVNZ & Red Radio merger (Still haven’t seen a reason for it) and 3/5 Waters in general.
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November 30, 2022 8:20am
- rouppe
  
  Ultimately this is an attack, not on the practice, but on who is receiving the money.
  
  If those 6 mp’s didn’t rent out their office to parliamentary services, they’d be renting someone else’s office. The money would still be spent.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:32am
- JJ56
  
  The NZ Herald headline calling it a ‘perk’ is a straight out lie. They know the mps would be better off financially not doing it – they published the estimated market rentals that were higher – but still they persisted with the story.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:07am
  - Cinematic
    
    Yes, curious how a net cost to Luxon can be described as a perk?
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:04am
Maggy Wassilieff

Viewing and Listening survey of teens and twenties…

https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/29-11-2022/10-key-takeaways-from-an-astounding-new-survey-of-gen-z-new-zealanders

The verdict for RNZ is even more chilling – just 2% of those surveyed claimed to listen to its core radio product.
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November 30, 2022 8:23am
- NothingLeft
  
  And yet Labour throw 100’s of millions in useless advertising dollars at their media mates with single digit reach (and near zero in younger demographics) in order to buy their editorial support. Out and out corruption.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:39am
- cmm
  
  That is even after falling over themselves to add woke and youth adjacent content like rap music etc.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:51am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Ah, but it’s the correct 2% comrade! Senior Party Members, Senior Public Servants (but I repeat myself) and school teachers…
  
  Its not easy keeping the bubble going when the price of a Latte is approaching $6!
  
  Fortunately the Leaf is still going strong, but little Tarquin and Jemima’s after school classes are getting so dear, we had to give up the Nanny’s Polo last term!
  
  #doingithard
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:02am
  - Yabster
    
    bloody Teachers- should be assessed on compentcy like most professions- surely they are ashamed of the stats coming out of our schools lately- always seem to have their hands out though.
    
    Least our kids can speak Te Reo though- the fact they can’t read or add 2+2 is not important..
    
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    November 30, 2022 12:27pm
G152

So a black right winger and a white racist go to dine with an exPresident of America and all the news can report is their bigotted ideas and not the fact that Trump can unite such disparate views.

Going to have to work harder to rise to the level of fake news
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November 30, 2022 8:29am
- fernglas
  
  I think the problem is that both of the dinner guests share anti-semitic views, in addition to their own particular perversions. I didn’t hear anything from Trump about uniting them; they came together to his place and he says he didn’t even know who the “white racist” was.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:41am
- Ehlana
  
  A lot of words have changed their meaning lately. To the list we can now add “racist”, which now means a white man who has dinner with a black man.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:09am
- Nickc2
  
  Trump will have some scores to settle when he next returns as POTUS eh? You wouldn’t want to own any of those anti-Republican propaganda news entities.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He will be suing the arses off a lot of people!
    Already suing Liz Cheney. He has all the RINOs in the crosshairs.
    Hunter is going to get the hiding of his life.
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:04am
RockyJ

Newshub has run an interview where Christopher Luxon admits he has made some mistakes. They may have intended this as a good way to do another hit job on him.

It backfires. We like leaders who can admit their mistakes. It makes them like us and more trustworthy. It also shows that they can learn because no one is perfect.

Except Jacinda. She is perfect. She doesn’t even lie.
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November 30, 2022 8:30am
- amospicton
  
  Typo in the last sentence Rocky – “She doesn’t ever not lie”.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Newshub has 4 articles up on Chris Luxon today
  1. Super age
  2. One year as Leader of Nats
  3. Maori Health
  4. Luxon’s Office rental
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home.html
  
  They’ve all got a negative spin, but he’s managed to knock Jacinda Ardern’s face off the web page for a few hours.
  
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  November 30, 2022 8:53am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    The effort to make up for it was quickly apparent with the “Live link” to her meeting with the Partying PM of Sweden …… except that the Sweden PM hadn’t yet arrived .
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:17am
    - mandk
      
      Finland
      
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      November 30, 2022 9:22am
      - Cinematic
        
        Would swap the two in a heartbeat.
        
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        November 30, 2022 11:07am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She will see a ‘Haka’ and think they are dancing and want her to join in.//
      
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      November 30, 2022 11:08am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      oh damn -shoulda checked 🙂
      
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      November 30, 2022 11:27am
  - Sacha
    
    Parliamentary Services could have said to Luxon: we don’t want to pay YOU for the rent of YOUR offices. Find somewhere else!
    But it didn’t, because presumably they are quite happy with the idea, and it was within their rules.
    Another beat-up by the media.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:17am
    - Drone
      
      The reality is that many MPs from all parties own office accommodation and “rent” there own accommodation as “out of parliament offices”. It’s also probable that parties (ie the greens, labour and Nats) own office accommodation that they rent to MPs as “out of parliament offices”. If the MSMwant to do a full exposure they should do an investigation of all MPs out of parliament offices. To hard, they don’t want to know.
      
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      November 30, 2022 1:52pm
      - Ghost
        
        If you read the articles you will find they did report. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/how-much-christopher-luxon-s-charging-taxpayers-to-lease-his-own-office-from-himself-and-how-it-compares-to-market-rent.html
        
        Topping the office perks is Luxon’s $45,000, then comes Labour’s Tracey McLellan at $40,000 and Jenny Salesa with $28,000 – both offices owned by the Labour party.
        
        National’s Jacqui Dean rents her office to herself for $15,000.
        
        Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta rents her office for $13,000. It’s not owned by her but it’s on Māori land – she’s a member of the iwi that owns it.
        
        National’s Paul Goldsmith didn’t get his returns in on time but he told Newshub he charges $958 a month – the thriftiest of the lot.
        
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        November 30, 2022 2:00pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Cindy has a Pedicure appointment this morning. Newshub and Womans Weekly camera crews and journos are on their way as we speak.
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:25am
I remember when

Italian Covid Research Results: Dr John Campbell.
+ 51+% of population caught Omicron.
+ Natural/Post Infection immunity is now the factor reducing population sensitivity.
+ As at February 2022 less than 13% of population susceptible to sars corona, and probably much lower now.
+ If infectioned
. Hospitalisation 0.2+%
. ICU 0.2-%
. Probability of Death approx .05%

This would suggest that the only people that need boosters now are those with compromised immunity.

.
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November 30, 2022 8:35am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I remember when, the vaccines damage your innate immune system. If I already had an immune system problem I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. I’m no doctor, but the evidence is becoming hard to ignore. Very few people will benefit from this garbage.
  We still have a while to go to see the long term impacts, but with the (so far) unexplained rise in all excess mortality pretty much everywhere on the planet, it isn’t looking good.
  
  The correlation with vaccine rollouts is staring us in the face, but the TV “experts” and media won’t go near it. They know that once it becomes clear that this shit is doing far more harm than any potential good, they will be asked some very searching questions by some very, very angry people.
  
  Iatrogenesis in England & Wales
  COVID policies and genetic vaccination are responsible for all the excess deaths.
  
  What does this all mean? It means that in the absence of any government intervention, COVID is just a regular ILI, not even a bad one that I used to believe.
  
  Disrupting healthcare and subjecting old people to a novel, risky therapy is really fatal though.
  
  The graphs are quite revealing. Check it out and if you think it’s “misinformation” or “conspiracy theory” make sure to come up with something better than an ad hominem. I ignore those with the same disdain as Ardern dismisses the truth.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:29am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Here’s a link to that post with the explanatory graphs and detailed analysis.
    
    https://metatron.substack.com/p/iatrogenesis-in-england-and-wales?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=579085&post_id=87550747&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email
    
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    November 30, 2022 9:46am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dead people can’t be angry. They miss out on any future claims.
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:12am
I remember when

“Outrage as the Annual Firefighters Calendar ditches its hotties:”
Personally I don’t give a toss.
But, what a miserable bunch of ‘no-brains’ they are determined to make us.
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November 30, 2022 8:42am
- Ehlana
  
  Which firefighters calendar? The NZ Fire Service one features firefighters and children and supports the Child Cancer Foundation. It’s been a while since it just had the firefighters on it.
  
  And the 2023 edition is out now, if you want it: https://www.nzfirecal.co.nz/
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Some of the miserable bunch probably wanted some transgenders posing.
  Truly fucked up people.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:14am
Nukuleka

Yesterday I chatted with two immigrants, one Indian working at the local gas station the other a Chinese employed at Spark. The strength of their disdain for Ardern and her government was palpable. And their desire to give National and ACT the chance to do something specifically about crime rates was equally palpable. Both spoke highly of Luxon and Seymour. I am encouraged that there is a real mood for change.
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November 30, 2022 8:44am
- ISeeRed
  
  That’s nice. These must be the supremely qualified, highly trained, technically gifted immigrants that NZ is apparently incapable of producing and is desperately short of.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:05am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yeah, but can they vote?
  
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  November 30, 2022 7:53pm
Warren

Theft and damage at Ngati Uenukukopako Housing Development in Rotorua.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/theft-and-damage-at-ngati-uenukukopako-housing-development-in-rotorua/C37XCSLJTFBMPMPHV2RNLFQC4E/
Well this is a problem most likely caused by this Labour Government when they shipped in the homeless, unemployed and many gang families into motels in Rotorua and now they can’t get rid of this Government’s initiative for the homeless that the Mayor and Residents don’t want .
Jacinda Ardern and her Housing Minister don’t like to listen they like to tell Local Government what’s going to happen and you could just about guarantee that the ferrels imported in to Rotorua by this Government are responsible for this Ram Raid.
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November 30, 2022 8:50am
- Its only I
  
  To be honest, theft and vandalism on building sites has always been a problem.
  
  We would leave the HWC out until the keys were handed over. Anyone on a building site can fill a smoko with stories.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:17am
- ISeeRed
  
  How the whaka are we meant to pronounce that?!
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:07am
Ford Prefect

It’s starting to feel like the current government have realized they will never be in power again and are desperate to slam through their biggest changes before they disappear forever

Not all will agree to sacrifice their career to make sure Marxist policies are entrenched. Many want the gravy Train to continue and will need to find a way to appeal to the public. The only way may be to start whistleblowing
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November 30, 2022 8:59am
RoboRob

National snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Raising the retirement age is a vote loser. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the policy, a good portion of the population (especially those on the left / center) are likely to oppose it.

Grow a brain National. Don’t raise a controversial issue and take attention from Labours failures, Leave the focus on crime and the death in the PMs own electorate. If you want to do it just do it after you have been elected (just like Labour did when cancelling oil drilling). Stupid politics!
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November 30, 2022 9:15am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Agree, as in why give Labour anything to go against National with.
  Better to let Labour do the likes of electioneering on compulsory income insurance, as that will go down poorly.
  
  Wait till another term before looking to raise the retirement age – because much more important (for the soul and material prosperity of NZ) to get in, and reverse 3 Waters and ethnic-separatism like Health Authorities, and start pulling back from the mentally sick trajectory the country is on.
  
  Only after slashing the public sector waste, returning to valuable infrastructure maintenance & builds (building a few prisons?) and taking the boot off the throat of farmers, landlords and small business; after dealing with the other hundred problems can something like this policy-turd in the punchbowl be shared with the public.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:31pm
- Nickc2
  
  Exactly! As Stephen Joyce intimated National shouldn’t be releasing policies before they are in possession of the Treasury Benches. Keep your powder dry as they say in the classics and never give a sucker an even break as they say on the streets.
  Kick the bastards when they’re down, that’s me speak.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:42pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    National shouldn’t be releasing policies before they are in possession of the Treasury Benches
    
    Campaign along the lines of “trust me – I know what I’m doing”. Apologies to Maxwell Smart 🙂
    
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    November 30, 2022 3:33pm
    - RalphT
      
      I think your apologies should go to Sledge Hammer. Maxwell was famous for “Sorry about that Chief.”
      
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      November 30, 2022 4:15pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I wondered about that after I wrote it. Thanx
        
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        November 30, 2022 7:23pm
Maggie Pie

Thank fuck Espresso never won the Auckland mayoralty!

Imagine telling people you live in… Remu-wera 🙁

‘Auckland mayoral candidate Efeso Collins will change Auckland names to reflect our biculturalism’

– Te Ao Maori News
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November 30, 2022 9:23am
- ClanMcleod
  
  So there are only 2 races of people? I bet the Chinese and Indians are a tad upset! Why do all of Ardern’s policies depend on fracturing the community? Everything she does is about splitting is apart, nothing is about bringing us together, she is poison.
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:43am
- alex Masterley
  
  Efeso Collins needs to look in a mirror. He wont see a Maori staring back at him.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:20am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    alex – that’s a very salient point, or does Mr Collins only count “cultures” as those with or without a tan???
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:50am
Takere

3Waters+2Waters is a $485B+ “FIRESALE!”
It’s a $485b+(est. cost to fix it) firesale of water services with 35 year contracts. Everything else being said is misdirection, suckers!

Whoever controls the infrastructure controls the $$!

Here is the architect, designer of the legislation for all of this.

Paul Beverley, of Buddle Findlay, specialises in the RMA, co-governance design in Treaty settlement processes, and advising local authorities on Treaty and Māori law issues. According to the Buddle Findlay website, he has extensive experience collaborating and negotiating with Māori and advising on Māori law issues. His particular specialty is designing and negotiating co-governance, co-management and relationship frameworks between the Crown, local government and Māori.

Anne Gibson, Property Editor of the New Zealand Herald, in an article on Beverley published 13 May 2017, “….in the past few years, the refrain sounding loudest in his life is redress for tangata whenua. That means addressing the wrongs of the past, helping Maori groups negotiate, then draft Treaty of Waitangi deeds of settlement as one of the Crown team representing the Justice Ministry’s Office of Treaty Settlements”.

Further insight into the views of Beverley can be found in his involvement as a participant in the Constitutional and Legal experts’ hui held by the government to discuss Crown-Maori Relations (20 March 2018). Notes produced by the participants include the following points:

There is a need to move beyond a consultation mind set to real partnership and engagement.
The Treaty is clear that there are two peoples in a partnership, with roles and responsibilities.
A concrete agenda/work programme should include the following: constitutional position of the Treaty; local government status; capacity and capability building – central and local government; institutional/systemic discrimination; water; shared outcomes; putting partnership into practice (e.g., the Department of Conservation has some useful approaches – local level solutions in particular).
Māori representation on local authorities – if moving towards Māori wards then other changes also need to be put in place to support them and for substantive long-term change and community understanding. They will fail to make effective change on their own.
A clear conceptual framework over the top is required, that defines local government in NZ and its roles and responsibilities in the Treaty/Māori space.

The Government needs a plan to educate communities, including exemplars of how people are positively relating, how the Crown and Māori are relating, the benefits for communities and the nation, and that it is not racist for the government to prioritise results for Māori.
Proprietary rights need to be defined with reference to two systems of law. There is a need to understand tikanga as law, rights and constitutionally.

Undertake a stocktake by running a Treaty ruler over legislation, regulation and policies.
Decolonisation required to allow a Māori lens to become first nature for government.

And again, for clues as to what Beverley thinks, see his paper entitled ‘A stronger voice for Māori in natural resource governance and management’, which he presented to the NZ Planning Institute conference 2015 – ‘Back to the Future’.

Paul Beverley claims that Māori have a deep and innate relationship with natural resources, saying that significant advances are being made to enable the expression of this relationship. In his paper he focussed on one of these advances – the arrangements delivered through Treaty of Waitangi settlements, giving the following four examples of Treaty settlement arrangements:

the tūpuna maunga arrangements in the Tāmaki Collective settlement;
the Waikato River settlement;
the Tūhoe – Te Urewera settlement; and
the Whanganui River settlement.
Paul Beverley acted for Auckland Council in the negotiations leading to the new Tupuna Maunga Authority. According to Beverley the Tāmaki Collective settlement reflects a significant reconnection between the Iwi of the Tāmaki Collective and their tūpuna maunga, which includes a detailed set of arrangements that provide a prominent voice for those Iwi in the future governance and management of, and planning for, those tūpuna maunga. Beverley was quoted in the NZ Herald 13 May 2017, saying:

“Those maunga are the embodiment of the iwi ancestors so the law now recognises that through the vesting of those volcanic cones back in the iwi, and the Tupuna Maunga (co-governance) Authority. It’s a really important point in the journey.”

Paul Beverley acted for the Crown on the Waikato River claim, which resulted in the Waikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Act 2010 and other legislation, recognising the river as a tupuna or ancestor with mana, and in turn representing the mauri or life force of the tribe. The Waikato River arrangements provide for the establishment of the Waikato River Authority, a co-governance authority comprising five members appointed by the river iwi and five members appointed by the Crown/local authorities. The Waikato River Authority is responsible for the vision and strategy for the Waikato River. The Vision and Strategy is a planning document with very powerful effect, in fact it is incorporated directly into the Waikato regional policy statement, and it overrides an RMA national policy statement in the event of conflict. Decision-makers under a wide range of legislation are required to consider and give legal effect to the vision and strategy.

Beverley is also active in spreading the co-governance net wider.

He is one of the three authors of the Hauraki Gulf Forum Governance Review and Recommendations, presented to the HGF June 2016, which recommended the 50/50 co-governance model, with greater powers.

He was also, from 2015, the ‘Independent’ Chair of the Sea Change Tai Timu Tai Pari (Hauraki Gulf Marine Spatial Plan) stakeholder working group. The Sea Change Plan also strongly pushes the ‘co-governance with iwi’ arrangement.

So go and knock yourselves out.
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November 30, 2022 9:33am
- Nickc2
  
  Wow, things that one doesn’t know!
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:51am
- Jack5
  
  From rock to kapa haka …
  
  An interesting aside about Maori settlement lawyer Paul Beverley ….
  
  From an article in the NZ Herald by Anne Gibson – five years ago, when Beverley was national chairman of Buddle Finlay.
  
  Throughout his LLB and commerce degrees at Otago, Beverley was in bands, singing and playing bass, guitar and saxophone. He and Wallace Chapman, now an RNZ National broadcaster, formed the band Soulminers, writing half their material, performing soul, jazz and funk and touring New Zealand.
  
  “My parents were migrants from South Africa who settled in Blenheim and my father was a professional musician, a jazz drummer, so there was always music in the house.”
  
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  November 30, 2022 9:55am
  - Diogenes
    
    Jack5, Paul Beverley’s father would have been Sandy Beverley, who was brought out from South Africa around 1963 to become Blenheim’s first-ever Public Relations Officer. In those days that was a pretty unusual appointment. Sandy was very popular and did make a difference (remembering this was a decade before some bright spark realised that a Mediterranean climate stony soils = coining money). I seem to recall that 1963 was also the year the first RORO Cook Strait ferry from Picton to Wellington began service. At the time, I was a young cadet journalist on the local paper, and those events are still fresh in my mind.
    
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    November 30, 2022 1:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That’s a lot of info. I will unpack it this afternoon.
  Thankyou.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:31am
thirteenstars

Nice to know National has let another one slip past the goalie. From the Free Speech Union newsletter, Dr David Cumin:

Every party in Parliament (except the Maori Party) has supported Minister Kiri Allan’s Counter-Terrorism Acts Bill. Clause 15 of this Bill redefines the term ‘terrorist’ and makes it possible for some who possess ‘objectionable material’ to be charged under terrorism legislation… even though the material has NOTHING to do with terrorism.

With an opposition like this, who needs a Marxist government to destroy free speech?

Possessing objectional material that is entirely unrelated to terrorism shouldn’t see Kiwis charged as terrorists.

Sign the petition here at the FSU:

https://www.fsu.nz/terrorist_charges_for_terrorist_activity_and_content_only
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November 30, 2022 9:42am
- fernglas
  
  It’s a little bit more nuanced than you have told us. The material has to be objectionable because
  “the publication promotes or supports, or tends to promote or support, acts of torture or the infliction of extreme violence or extreme cruelty”
  If you go to the Act that this is intended to amend, it requires that the objectionable publications as described above “promote or encourage acts of terrorism”
  So the objectionable material in fact has to relate to the promotion of terrorism. The petition is therefore based on a misreading of the legislation. If the legislation is read properly, it might explain why the National/Act opposition doesn’t oppose it.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:08am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    @fernglas – but @thirteen only mentions National – where does “/Act opposition” come from – did I miss something or did someone intend to misinform me by omitting a salient point …… Regrettably I think that the PM’s disease is quite contagious and I sometimes wonder if this little ditty comes to the mind of National and it’s leadership.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln7Vn_WKkWU&ab_channel=StealersWheel-Topic
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:34am
  - thirteenstars
    
    You are incorrect.
    
    Clause 8A uses an “or” between subsections a and b and redefines b(ii) as “a specified objectionable publication”, and then goes on in a new subsection to include material that does not “promotes or encourages acts of terrorism”.
    
    There is no “and” which would mean it must promote terrorism *and* also those other things.
    
    That is the serious problem, that terrorism related material can be deemed material that *does not* involve the promotion of terrorism.
    
    Perhaps read the FSU’s submission:
    
    https://assets.nationbuilder.com/freespeech/pages/153/attachments/original/1669599437/221116_Counter-Terrorism_Acts_(Designations_and_Control_Orders)_Amendment_Bill_submission__UPDATED_.pdf
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    This sort of law is bullshit.
    
    It is based on the idea that someone can be changed from a well behaved person into a violent extremist just by reading a few words in a document.
    
    How about rather allowing people to read what they want and then hold them responsible for the consequences of their actions.
    
    Where are we going to draw the line for something as vague as “promoting violence” or any such phrase?
    
    Does a memoir of a gang leader or a soldier promote violence? Does the writings of Mao, Hilter, Caesar? How about the Bible, Koran, …?
    
    What about some of the sabre rattling speeches of Churchill and co? How about Mandela?
    
    And now we have “micro aggressions”. Are writings about those now also promoting violence?
    
    Nope. Far better allow any written material whether you agree with it or not.
    
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    November 30, 2022 2:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Already signed. I am on the FSU emailing list.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:34am
- cmm
  
  Let it slip past the goalie or stood back and helped wave the striker through?
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:53pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION….

Given the situation in Chynah is obviously so out-of-control, wouldn’t this be an ideal time for Taiwan to mount its own invasion?

https://twitter.com/iris05100630/status/1596208975632302082
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November 30, 2022 9:50am
- Ghost
  
  Chynah? She is a democrat in Massachusetts
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:04am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The thing I really miss not having President Trump on telly, was the way he said….. “China”
    
    😀
    
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    November 30, 2022 10:12am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  The CCP is lucky the Chinese don’t have American gun ownership levels. Americans watching this won’t be keen on more restrictive laws.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pete Buttigieg says Americans want to hand in their guns in his State.
    They keep saying “Come and get them”
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
5 Waters.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/dont-be-fooled-5-waters-is-only-one-step-on-the-road-to-complete-maori-control-of-new-zealand/

https://thebfd.co.nz/2022/11/29/grand-theft-water/
Someone else posted this link this morning but I can’t find it.
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November 30, 2022 10:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It was Dimchappie on the gaslighting thread.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:05am
fernglas

Thirteenstars @ 9:42
It’s a little bit more nuanced than you have told us. The material has to be objectionable because
“the publication promotes or supports, or tends to promote or support, acts of torture or the infliction of extreme violence or extreme cruelty”
If you go to the Act that this is intended to amend, it requires that the objectionable publications as described above “promote or encourage acts of terrorism”
So the objectionable material in fact has to relate to the promotion of terrorism. The petition is therefore based on a misreading of the legislation. If the legislation is read properly, it might explain why the National/Act opposition doesn’t oppose it.
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November 30, 2022 10:04am
Rusty

So Auckland has gone from the bad joke as the city of road cones to the even worst joke as the city of boarded up shop fronts.

Does anyone know one suburb in Auckland which doesn’t have a shop with boards covering broken windows and doors courtesy of the crims?

What a disgrace this all is.
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November 30, 2022 10:07am
- MCōs
  
  I’ll have another look next time I’m in downtown Mangere Bridge, but I don’t recall seeing damaged shop fronts a couple of days ago when I was along there.
  Road cones?
  There’s some down our street due to a new development of about thirty plus houses going up down there.
  They’re there so cars won’t park and obstruct the turning circle of delivery trucks.
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:55am
Scooter

What in God’s name is Jacinda wearing, a purple pants suit, is she channeling the 70’s? You’d think with Sanna visiting she’d up her game.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130618701/finnish-prime-minister-sanna-marin-meets-jacinda-ardern
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November 30, 2022 10:12am
- Ghost
  
  Must be a good day for her if all people are focused on is her outfit.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:38am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those clothes are better than the ones she found in a Grannie’s suitcase.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:44am
Maggie Pie

How disgusting!!

I never watch ‘Breakfast’, but just reading this made me feel physically ill.

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1597695647628623873
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November 30, 2022 10:21am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I usually avoid other people’s armpits, Maggy. And stories about them. Hopefully this was paywalled from the great unwashed?
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Nope. Not paywalled Al.
    Twitter comments quite funny as well 😛
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Here, the speaker of the house said “yuk, right in front of the cameras. No class at all”
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:48am
  - Nickc2
    
    Cut along the dotted line.
    
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    November 30, 2022 12:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/130618701/finnish-prime-minister-sanna-marin-meets-jacinda-ardern
I am surprised to see that Ardern did not dress up as a reindeer for the event.
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November 30, 2022 10:33am
- Frank the tank
  
  Like comparing a Ferrari with a Skoda……can we do swapsies with Finland
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You mean old Skodas. They were shitboxes.
    Todays’ Skoda is made by VW.
    
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    November 30, 2022 11:51am
    - cmm
      
      Funny old world…
      
      1940: Skoda build tanks for Hitler’s Army. NZ soldiers blow them up.
      2020: Skoda build cars for Hilter’s Motor Company. NZ government buy them because they have lower CO2 emissions.
      
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      November 30, 2022 1:49pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Czechs had some good industry, and the takeover of their country by Hitler drew their industry into the German war machine.
        
        An example of Czech engineering from the 1920s was the prototype for the Bren gun, the best light machine-gun on the Allied side.
        
        Founded by Emil von Skoda, an ethnic-German Czech, the Skoda group was a huge arms manufacturer in World War 1 as well as in World War 2.
        
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        November 30, 2022 2:20pm
Forrest

This week there is a ship unloading 2,ooo brand new Teslas in Auckland. At the clean car discount of $8,625 per vehicle this equates to another $17.25m being paid by the taxpayer.
This is in addition to the $33m in incentives already paid to Tesla owners, as reported by the media in October.
A rationale person would have thought that it was incentive enough to purchase an EV through not making any contribution to our roads or taxes through fuel taxes as ICE drivers have to.
But no, this government is doubling down on shelling out money to people who can already afford their $80,000 purchase price.
The continuation of the scheme is obviously not deemed inflationary or unfair enough to warrant being stopped.
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November 30, 2022 10:43am
- Bob
  
  EV vehicles are not affected by road potholes, so don’t need to pay any road taxes, and they don’t use motorway systems.
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:01pm
  - Ghost
    
    You wouldn’t want to hit a pothole
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6sPc9dFsGw
    
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    November 30, 2022 12:05pm
oldfella

Must be Wednesday. There’s an anti-Luxon cartoon in stuffed… //
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November 30, 2022 10:47am
- Ghost
  
  Why care and why bother looking
  
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  November 30, 2022 10:48am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I will only look at Stuff frontpage but will not click on any articles. I also do not stay longer than about 20 seconds after a quck scan.
  
  The longer you stay and the more articles you read gives them more cred to their advertisers with click and length of page views etc. Stuff them!
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:04am
- Bob
  
  That would practically make every day a Wednesday!
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Somebody is still burning down huts in Te Urewera.

https://www.teaomaori.news/te-urewera-hut-found-burnt

I wonder if the Cops are going to investigate.
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November 30, 2022 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘mysteriously burnt down’ Must be those aliens again.
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:55am
- cmm
  
  As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, court injunctions are not fireproof.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:44pm
- Bob
  
  Lightning strike perhaps! Bit stormy down there today.
  
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  November 30, 2022 3:45pm
Maggie Pie

And anyone else wondering why they would need to send 4 burly cops to South Korea just to bring back a 49kg woman ?

Sounds like a junket for a few of the lads from HQ if you ask me 😀
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November 30, 2022 11:07am
oldfella

My vote for today’s lamest MSM headline …
Wednesday’s weather a ‘messy situation’ for western Aotearoa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300752343/wednesdays-weather-a-messy-situation-for-western-aotearoa
Western Aotearoa? Hard to beat that. Yep, yep. //
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November 30, 2022 11:41am
- Ghost
  
  Better weather report, even includes Auckland’s gun crime
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TIj-l3nykw
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘Satellite jigsaw’ for sure. Best is to look at Rangitoto Island.
    If you can see it, then it’s going to rain.
    If you can’t see it then it is raining.
    
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    November 30, 2022 12:01pm
- Bob
  
  I have just looked out West, can’t see any island or land that could be called A-R TE-A-ROWER
  
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  November 30, 2022 11:59am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Scanned that too and thought what stupidity has the PJIF literally brought us?
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:00pm
I remember when

Could mask mandate be resurrected in the workplace?”: Stuff NZ Business.
“Silver Fern Farms meat workers are being made to wear masks….”

Perhaps one place where the wearing of masks could be justified.
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November 30, 2022 11:42am
Hugh Jarse

NZ Herald headline – Richard Prebble: ‘Lame duck’ Labour attacking National because they can’t campaign on their record in Government. Seems to me you could easier swap out Labour for Media and have it right as well ?
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November 30, 2022 12:11pm
Blog-aholic

I see Stuff reporters are off today…..no strikes on my watch SoCA will be distracted with the Fin (not Clarke)

Scanning the Stuff site you wouldn’t know they were all out…….

PS SoCA = Soft on Crime Ardern FYI.
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November 30, 2022 12:19pm
- Ghost
  
  Not true, they are still working just look at the offical Stuff webcam they’re all still working
  
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  November 30, 2022 12:34pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Scab labour? – must be equivalent to the ~ 40% walking off the job. Might be some common sense articles come out $tuff this arvo 🙂
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stuff-strike-reporters-to-walk-off-job-picket-offices-today/IIT5QNWA5JCZ7CMG2RC4BD2KGA/
    
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    November 30, 2022 12:56pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      This is funny – so the average output from stuff journalists is 1 article every 2 days, and they want more money! 🙂 🙂 🙂
      
      “400 journalists work for you at Stuff
      We’re 100% locally owned, and our team is of the people, for the people.
      We publish more than 200 articles a day – for you – covering everything from local politics to world news.”
      
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      November 30, 2022 1:04pm
I remember when

Covid law breaches:
NSW Government has been forced to scrap 33,121 fines, about one half of those issued.
Fines were for totals of $1000-$3000 so that a total of $10m is to be repaid and unpaid fines cancelled.

Would like to think that a lesson has been learned but not very hopeful.
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November 30, 2022 12:34pm
Maggie Pie

OMG…I’m sooo luving the ‘new’ Twitter 😀
Since Elon dumped 5000 staff you’d have to wonder what the fcuk they did there anyway?

Let’s hope Wayne Brown’s been taking note….
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November 30, 2022 12:49pm
krazykiwi

Other than a “steaming pile of stinking excrement”, I have no words to describe PM Justin Trudeau. This from him today:

“Everyone in China should be allowed to protest. We will continue to ensure that China knows we will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves.”
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November 30, 2022 1:00pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Can’t be the – Mr “Freeze your bank account when you protest” Trudeau surely?
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:14pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Worse, he froze the bank accounts of people who merely sent money to support the protesters.
    
    Had Ardern tried either I would have been in her cross-hairs.
    
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    November 30, 2022 1:20pm
- Nickc2
  
  WTFs Trudeau going to stand against China with?
  He and Cindy suffer from what is commonly known as ‘The Mouse That Roared’ syndrome.
  I couldn’t help but laugh when the Sweedish PM started talking about arms for Ukraine with Cindy. WTF would Cindy know about arms other than to wrap around Muslims?
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:31pm
kevn

@kk… That could well be our incumbent speaking.
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November 30, 2022 1:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Ardern and Trudeau are similar in so many ways: WEF acolytes, pathological liars, destroyers of democratic traditions, elitist, post-truth parrots of global governance strategies etc.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2014.
Paraphrased by Me:
The Mainstream Media (paper and TV)
They’re not jealous they are scared. The world is moving on, the people have found their voices. Liberals, intellectuals, journalists were once the last word on an issue. It was their message, it was their narrative that took center stage. Political Blogs and the blogging world is a direct challenge to the crap and propaganda they have being getting away with for years. Of course they would like to shut Political Blogs down it’s a direct threat to their standing in society. They will of course claim I’m talking crap but their actions betray them, if Political Blogs meant nothing they wouldn’t worry about it. It’s fear that drives them now, they become more irrelevant everyday.
Burn in Hell you leftie Media commies.
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November 30, 2022 1:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  My kids are in mid 30s-early 40s.
  
  They don’t read newspapers or watch TV news or TV programmes…..
  They don’t listen to the radio.
  
  but they seem to be well aware of what’s going on locally, nationally and internationally.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:21pm
Than

What complete BS – calls to lower the voting age to 16.

Let’s start with admitting the reality here – most of the people pushing this idea are not doing so out of any sense of altruism or democratic spirit. They’re doing it because 16 and 17 year olds will tend to vote certain ways, and this would provide those agendas a significant political advantage. It is nothing but a shameless attempt to manipulate the system, and screw the scrum to their benefit.

Ultimately any voting age you choose is going to be arbitrary. If we let 16 and 17 year olds vote, well, why not 15 year olds, or 14 year olds? Arguments about maturity or responsibility are meaningless. For one thing, these attributes cannot be objectively quantified. And for another there are plenty of immature and/or irresponsible (for however you define those terms) people at all ages.

A voting age of 18, while still somewhat arbitrary, has at least a couple of semi-objective facts going for it. It’s the age most people leave school. It’s the age many people move of their parents house and into their own place. In short, it’s the age where most people start to move out of their parents umbrella and begin their own independent lives. (Yeah, yeah, of course there are plenty of exceptions, both younger and older. But as a broad generalization this statement holds true.)
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November 30, 2022 1:08pm
- All_on_Red
  
  16 year olds haven’t done anything so haven’t earned the right to Vote so they don’t deserve the privilege.
  They are too new and know very little
  #Makeit25
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:40pm
- cmm
  
  We have to have some cut off for adulthood and whatever it will be somewhat arbitrary. It is ridiculous to think that as one minute to midnight on the night before their birthday a 17 year old is still a child and then one minute later they’re now 18 and an adult.
  
  It only really makes sense to see these as a whole lot of rights and obligations that come together.
  
  You’ve turned 18. You are now considered an adult. You can buy booze and smokes. You can be a prostitute. You can vote. You are now also liable for your contracts. You can now be charged as an adult.
  
  What does not make sense is the half-adult/half-child space of saying they’re little kids for some purposes, but sufficiently responsible for others.
  
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  November 30, 2022 1:41pm
  - David Garrett
    
    CMM: Quite right…and an excellent example of Orwellian double-think is this: 16 year olds are mature enough to sensibly evaluate candidates for election and vote accordingly…but 20 year olds – some lefties even extend it to age 25 – say that their brains aren’t fully mature, so they should stay in the Youth Court where the penalties are laughable, rather than go to the District and High Courts.
    
    They seek to have it both ways: mature enough have a vote, but about four (or more) years away from being held fully responsible for their actions.
    
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    November 30, 2022 2:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

FB 2014.

A teacher asked the children in her 3rd year class, “What do you want to be when you grow up?”
Little Johnny answered first. “I want to start out as an S.A.S. officer, go to the Middle East and kill loads of militant Muslims, return as a national hero, then become a billionaire, go to the most expensive clubs, find me the finest nymphomaniac tart, give her a Ferrari, an apartment in Copacabana, a mansion in Paris, a jet to travel throughout Europe, an Infinite Visa Card, and all the while banging her like a loose screen door in a hurricane.”
The teacher, shocked, and not knowing what to do with this unfortunate response from little Johnny, decided not to acknowledge what he said and simply tried to continue with the lesson.
“And how about you, Sarah?”
“I want to be Johnny’s tart!”
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November 30, 2022 1:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Last one. 2013.

An elderly man lay dying in his bed. While suffering agonies on his way to his final moment, he suddenly smells the aroma of his favourite scones wafting up the stairs.
He gathered his remaining strength, and lifted himself from the bed. Leaning on the wall, he slowly made his way out of the bedroom, gripping the wall; he slowly makes it to the kitchen.
There, piled on a tray are his favourite scones. Was it heaven? Or was it one final act of love from his devoted Scottish wife of sixty years, seeing to it that he left this world a happy man?
Mustering one great final effort, he threw himself towards the table, landing on his knees in rumpled posture.
His aged and withered hand trembled towards a scone at the edge of the table, when it was suddenly smacked by his wife with a wooden spoon.
“Fuck off!!” she said… “they’re for the funeral”
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November 30, 2022 1:09pm
Maggie Pie

My partner txts…..

“Crypto mystery deaths….FAAARK they’re starting to drop like flies” 🙁

https://mol.im/a/11480711
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November 30, 2022 1:54pm
- Nickc2
  
  Geez, his Mrs is drop-dead gorgeous.
  She could make an old sailor real happy.
  
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  November 30, 2022 2:02pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’ll have a few to chose from 😛
    Amazing how Ruskie billionaires have such a propensity to fall out of windows and off balconies etc.
    
    Vlad engaged in a bit of house-cleaning?
    
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    November 30, 2022 2:16pm
Ghost

Awwww, story of the day

The Kaipara District Council’s first meeting since the local election has kicked off with a bit of verbal biffo between the Mayor and a Māori ward Councillor.

Just minutes into the council’s first meeting, Councillor Pera Paniora, of Te Moanaui o Kaipara Māori Ward, wanted to begin the meeting with a karakia.

“Excuse me, just before we start, through the chair may I say the karakia?”

Newly elected Kaipara Mayor Craig Jepson was quick to shut down Paniora’s request, arguing she “cannot interrupt, I’m sorry”.

But Paniora hit back, telling the Mayor “it is tikanga to start a meeting with a karakia”.

Mayor Jepson then gave an explanation as to why he wouldn’t allow the karakia to go ahead.

“This is a council that’s full of people who are non-religious, religious, of different ethnicities and I intend to run a secular council here which respects everybody and I will not be veering from that. Thank you.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/video-newly-elected-kaipara-mayor-craig-jepson-shuts-down-councillor-s-karakia-request.html
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November 30, 2022 2:02pm
- Nickc2
  
  National or Act should go out of their way to recruit Mayor Jepson, or at least put him up very high on their List.
  
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  November 30, 2022 2:07pm
- Yabster
  
  well done that man!
  
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  November 30, 2022 2:25pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Thank God (or goodness) for one person with a degree of sense, and courage of their convictions.
  
  As a mate in the public service, who is forced to do karakia for meeting said, that the push back is not worth your career.
  Of course he thinks it is time wasting bollocks.
  
  Need to push back in any case, against the lack of sense, arrogance and special status of what seem to be a new exalted class defined by their genetics.
  
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  November 30, 2022 2:25pm
- David Garrett
  
  Well done that man…Far to much pandering to the Special People…we have more Asians New Zealanders now than those who arrived a few hundred years before the rest of us.
  
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  November 30, 2022 2:52pm
- fernglas
  
  The foundation of so much of Tikanga is Christian or animistic spiritual belief, and those of us who don’t believe in that sort of bullshit are unfairly discriminated against by having to participate in or endure such rituals.
  
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  November 30, 2022 3:06pm
- NothingLeft
  
  And the jack-booted, brown-shirted Maori wonderfulness mob (representing a tiny minority of NZers) will come after him. Don’t like his chances of surviving.
  
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  November 30, 2022 6:20pm
cas

Cam Slater has some interesting observations about the background of the man who allegedly killed the dairy worker.
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November 30, 2022 2:09pm
- Ian Boag
  
  It’s so good that Cam has overcome his health problems
  
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  December 30, 2021 6:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NZ Govt wants to cut emissions to help out with Climate Change (or whatever you want to call it) with this sort of shit going on. Tell me why I should be punished.
https://thegoptimes.com/celeb-gets-blasted-for-being-obviously-out-of-touch-with-reality-3/
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November 30, 2022 2:55pm
fernglas

From the Daily Telegraph comes the results of a survey which shows an obvious but ignored consequence of lockdown
“One in four young people who spent their adolescence in the shadow of Covid now has a mental health disorder, new data suggests.

The figure has risen from one in six in just one year.

The data from NHS Digital examines the impact of repeated lockdowns, school closures, and attempts to adjust to a “new normal” during the pandemic.

Experts said the crisis had now become “a national emergency” – saying that Britain’s response to Covid had caused a profound “shock to the system” of young people at a formative age.

Before the pandemic, one in ten young people aged 17 to 19 was classed as having a “probable mental disorder”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/29/quarter-teenagers-who-lived-lockdowns-now-have-mental-health/

This entirely foreseeable harm to the young was caused by a narrow-minded adherence to supposed medical science to the detriment of a broader cost/benefit analysis of the consequences of Government policy. Just because they nearly all got it wrong doesn’t excuse the terrible generational problems caused by lockdown policies. The results in New Zealand will be no different.
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November 30, 2022 2:57pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else….
I’m never posting another recipe on Twitter ever again!

First 7 comments:
1. We can’t tolerate milk. Can we use Soy Milk?
2. Can you use gluten-free flour?
3. Is it salted or unsalted butter?
4. Can you check the loaf tin is the right size.
5. Can I reduce the amount of sugar?
6. You haven’t said what kind of apples to use.
7. Do you mean 180 celsius or fahrenheit?

How does just F – OFF sound?
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November 30, 2022 3:47pm
- Ghost
  
  And to think you were just posting how to boil an egg…
  
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  November 30, 2022 3:49pm
- MCōs
  
  It’s a tough gig being one of these here influencers.
  
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  November 30, 2022 5:35pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yes, it’s hard to soar like an Eagle…..
    
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    November 30, 2022 5:54pm
Alex

Maggie Pie,
Russian oligarchs just a symptom of what happens if you don’t agree with Putin .
Here Mahuta pinching water, in Ukraine it’s both water and electricity plus genocide thrown in by Orcs.
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November 30, 2022 4:10pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/300752685/rare-goldie-artworks-fetch-more-than-2-million-at-auckland-art-auction
Very good ! I like these works !
Is there as much genuine interest in paintings and artworks by contemporaries of Goldie which do NOT feature maori ?
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November 30, 2022 5:05pm
Ghost

Good news Auckland, the market for badly designed, badly painted, over priced houses has dried up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/the-block-nz/130625346/the-block-nz-is-postponed-due-to-challenging-housing-market
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November 30, 2022 5:10pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, watching feeds from the internet means I can avoid local dross. Given the number of smart TVs out there you would have to be daft to watch local.
  
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  November 30, 2022 5:16pm
Jack5

Ardern’s Government takes racist separation a step further with the announcement today of both changes to health products legislation, and setting up of a “workstream” of Maori traditional healers to liaise on it.

The Therapeutics Products Bill appears to lift Maori remedies towards equivalence with prevailing Western medicines.

In parallel, the “Associate Minister for Health (Maori)”, Peeni Henare, announced a “workstream” of “rongoā” (Maori medicine). This Maori advisory group will:

–“explore the interface of the Therapeutic Products Bill and rongoā. The group will also explore whether rongoā matters are being addressed through other Government work programmes.”

The bill includess in its purposes: “innovation, including opportunities for Maori”; and “choice of, and equity of access to, therapeutic products for Maori and other population groups”.

The bill establishes the role of Therapeutics Product Regulator, whose duties will include having “capacity and capability to give effect to the principles of te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi and take account of matauranga Maori [Maori knowledge]and Maori perspectives in relation to therapeutic products”.

Members of advisory committes will have to have knowledge of matauranga Maori “when that is relevant.”

Markets for therapeutic products, the bill says, among other things should include innovative opportunigties for Maori allow choice of, “and equity of access to” thereapeutic products for Maori and other population groups.
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November 30, 2022 5:24pm
- Jack5
  
  Edit: unable to get recognised the closing of the italic after “[Maori knowledge].
  
  Sorry!
  
  [Mod – fixed it for you]
  
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  November 30, 2022 5:33pm
  - Jack5
    
    Thank you, Moderator!
    
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    November 30, 2022 5:42pm
Alex

Russia waging Winter War in Ukraine.as they did against the Finns during Second World War, everyone knows what the Orcs are like in that part of the world.
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November 30, 2022 5:28pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The Russians got the whatsit kicked out of them in 1918 and 1939 against the Finns
  
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  November 30, 2022 7:14pm
Maggie Pie

Some great photo-ops with Cindy and Sanna Marin on Twitter.

Shows just what a beautiful looking woman Finland’s Prime Minister is 😀
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November 30, 2022 5:34pm
- Keith White
  
  Awkward location on the Lukewarm-Crazy Matrix. Avoid.
  
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  December 1, 2022 12:13am
Ian Boag

Co-governance and 3 (5?) waters.

Chris Trotter has a thoughtful piece about it in his Bowalley Road blog. Worth reading
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November 30, 2022 6:36pm
Swifty

Half of the world’s democracies on the decline:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/479818/half-of-world-s-democracies-in-decline-intergovernmental-watchdog

Well certainly New Zealand is, and I can say that with confidence.
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November 30, 2022 6:38pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300751059/what-is-pou-tiaki
Who cares ?
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November 30, 2022 6:43pm
graham

Watching One News over the last week or so, I noticed that Daniel Faitaua has returned to occasionally presenting. I think he’s presented the news two or three times now. And I have to say … what an utter joy it is to listen to the news and to be able to understand it without any problem.

Mr Faitaua, you see, has been presenting the news in English. I think he starts off with kia ora, and then for the rest of the news he sticks to English. It is such a relief to be able to listen to the news without having to pause to try to interpret what Simon Dallow has just said, or scratch my head over Melissa Stokes’ mangling of two languages.

I do hope Mr Faitaua can present the news on a regular basis. I would actually watch far more of the news if I could understand it without difficulties.
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November 30, 2022 6:56pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Daaniel has been the European correspondent for TV 1 for 2+ years
  
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  November 30, 2022 7:13pm
Ghost

Maybe I’m just cynical, maybe it is because I often see, well shit, only ever see patsy questions asked of Jacinda by her chosen journalists. So why is it I get the feeling this was a set up to give her something gain positive media attention from

The not-so-subtle sexism that followed Finland’s Sanna Marin from Helsinki to Auckland

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/130623392/the-notsosubtle-sexism-that-followed-finlands-sanna-marin-from-helsinki-to-auckland
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November 30, 2022 7:16pm
Maggie Pie

Is it true that the Finns are able to cook sausages in their saunas?

Asking for a friend.
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November 30, 2022 8:40pm
- Keith White
  
  Finnish saunas’ ‘hot room’ temperatures can exceed 100C.
  
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  December 1, 2022 12:16am
Ghost

Jacinda Ardern heckled at Fieldays as Government unveils projects to cut emissions

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/jacinda-ardern-heckled-at-fieldays-as-government-unveils-projects-to-cut-emissions.html
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November 30, 2022 8:41pm
- Keith White
  
  More, please.
  
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  December 1, 2022 12:17am

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