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January 9, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 January 2023

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General Debate

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The Redbaiter

The Ardern govt is detested for its co-governance policies, it wokeness and its general progressivism. Puzzling therefore to see that in recent Kiwiblog polls, similar progressives in National (Luxon, Willis and Stanford) received considerable support.

As CEO of Air NZ Luxon turned it into his own little woke empire. He introduced gender and race based hiring policies, forced staff to learn te reo Maori and was proud to obtain Gender and Rainbow Tick certifications.

People who know him say his “fanboying of Obama verges on embarrassing”. Luxon says the extreme left Obama is his favourite politician, and he brought him to New Zealand for a tourism promotion, (which others at Air NZ criticised as a waste of money). Luxon says he has “little time” for Donald Trump, and that US religious leaders who supported Donald Trump were “on the wrong side of history”.

Climate change was a big priority for Luxon at Air NZ and the company became a foundation member of the Climate Leaders Coalition. The vehicle fleet was converted to electric.

When Luxon quit Air NZ for politics, a close associate wasn’t sure whether Luxon would join National or Labour, saying “he’s a centrist politician, it could have gone either way”. Pundit Michael Bassett provided a similar assessment. When Basset heard Luxon was going in to politics he wondered which party. “He didn’t seem to me, necessarily, to be National,” he says. “He might have even seen an opportunity in Labour.”

Willis makes no secret of wanting to make National more progressive and was one of the first in the party to learn te reo. She brushed of a Nat supporter who expressed concern with co-governance with the remark, “no one under 40 cares about that”.

Stanford too is an avowed progressive. With Willis, she supported the coup by Todd Muller against Simon Bridges. A disaster that gifted the 2020 election to Ardern. When asked how co-governance would work in immigration issues, she said she would consult with iwi as part of the Treaty “partnership”.

This is a brief summary of only some of Luxon Willis and Stanford’s progressive/ leftist political views. There’s so much more, and it drives the question- Why are so many Kiwibloggers in such a rush to replace a PM who repulses them with politicians who think pretty much the same as Ardern does?
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January 9, 2023 8:01am
- Ipanema69
  
  When did Obama visit NZ for a tourist promotion?
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:34am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    2018;
    https://m.facebook.com/AirNewZealand/photos/a.216147425776/10155363958860777/?type=3
    
    And it reportedly cost Shareholders $500k+. I remember it well as one of the incredibly rare times I agreed with Patrick Gower;
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/patrick-gower-obama-ripped-off-air-new-zealand-with-500-000-fee.html
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:51am
- Rusty
  
  @ The Redbaiter.
  
  I’m not a big Luxon/National supporter. If they get into power they may well carry on with some of Jacindas/Labour radical and divisive policies perhaps in a moderate way.
  
  Hopefully David Seymour hasn’t fallen for this woke/ radical garbage and will be the man in a new National/Act govt to push back on it all.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:39am
  - Jimbob
    
    Not one chance in hell, Luxon will be aggressive anti Ardern. These Labour policies are so destructive that no one in a right mind will keep them. I don’t know where Redbaiter gets is info from, but in this case, it is clearly wrong.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:06am
    - Matt Long
      
      I have a bridge, only lightly used, suitable for conversion to cycle for you in Tamaki Makaurau. Selling due to Mayor Brown’s ultra right wing budget and focus on divesting non core assets.
      Send 50k to secure your share in pre sale discount.
      
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      January 9, 2023 3:45pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He is bait from the red team to fight the blue team
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:10pm
  - blue collar
    
    Seymour’s the man .
    Would make a great pm .
    
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    January 9, 2023 11:09am
- Ehlana
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Redbaiter, like it or not Maori is an official language of New Zealand and Maori-related issues are a big part of local politics. Arguably, all professional politicians should learn it. That way, they can understand for themselves what is being said and written. Relying on others to translate is how we got our Treaty of Waitangi issues, after all.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:39am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    The problem with the Maori (te reo) is that like Samoan, Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Hindi, etc, it is an ethno-language. The speakers are almost exclusively from a single race.
    Therefore, promoting the language means promoting the worldview and culture of one minority race over the majority of New Zealanders.
    Is this a good idea? Will it help unify the nation or divide it?
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:53am
    - Ehlana
      
      I agree Maori is primarily spoken by Maori people in New Zealand. But I think that is true of most languages – they are mainly spoken by one group of people in one part of the world. They are still important to the people who speak them, and the policies of their governments should reflect that.
      
      What we have in New Zealand is a government who are not simply allowing and respecting local and minority languages, but trying to forcibly create a new language by unnecessary substitution of Maori words for English ones and, even worse for the long term cause of the country, trying to entrench rule by an hereditary Maori elite. There is no way to impose an ethnic minority aristocracy that will not divide a nation. It’s never worked in any other country, so there’s no reason it should here.
      
      It is that very behaviour of the current mob that leads me to believe other politicians need to ensure they know enough Maori to work out for themselves what is being said in Maori. If you don’t understand the language, you can’t argue back in it. And as long as no-one else can argue back in Maori, all counter-arguments made in English can and will be dismissed as made by racists who hate Maoris (as evidenced by their not speaking the language).
      
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      January 9, 2023 9:40am
      - Jack5
        
        I agree with Ehlana that NZ Pidgin is a problem.
        
        Switzerland copes with four official languages: German, French, Italian, and Romansh. We can cope with two (plus signing).
        
        I don’t think Swiss kids have to learn Romansh unless they’re in that minority area, so young Swiss handle three and about 45 per cent of Swiss speak English regularly, too.
        
        People’s ability to handle languages isn’t the problem.
        
        The pushing of Maori into English in NZ, led by TVNZ, Radio NZ, and the subsidised newsapers, is creating an NZ Pidgin, however. That is a problem.
        
        The Woke behind this can’t, or won’t see, that this is more of a threat to the Maori language than it is to English, which, because of its wide international use, is secure.
        
        NZ Pidgin could easily become a rival to Maori in regions where Maori speech needs to be active to preserve the language.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:16am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “” But I think that is true of most languages – they are mainly spoken by one group of people in one part of the world.””
        
        In the case of English that is not true.
        
        Comparing the utility of the Maori language to that of English, Arabic, Spanish, Mandarin, Germany and French is simply absurd.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:22am
      - Don Beckett
        
        The problen is Ehlana, is the Maori is a very metaphoric language – one word can have a multiplicity of meanings, and context is very important because it defines the meaning of the word. Much of the metaphor is hidden within a cultural & historic backstory, and sentence structure is quite different – so its not simply a matter of learning the meaning of words – that’s only a small part of understanding the language.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:45am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Having two official languages is how we got into the ToW crap and will cause continuing conflict. You cannot have two different versions of a contract which is the inevitable consequence.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:41am
    - MCōs
      
      In 1840 the predominant language by far was Te Reo. There was only little more than a couple of thousand non Māori residents and a good number of them would have been illiterate in English.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:19am
    - Ehlana
      
      The Treaty was written in English, then (inaccurately) translated into Maori before it was first signed by anyone. It also appears that while William Hobson signed both on behalf of the Crown, some Maori leaders signed one version, some another and some neither. Hence our current problems.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:21am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Our current problems are not in any way related to what some people did or didn’t do in 1840.
        
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        January 9, 2023 11:56am
      - Unity
        
        It wasn’t inaccurately translated. As I said above the so-called Littlewood Treaty is the final English draft. It omitted ‘and all the people of New Zealand’ and also put in Forests and Fisheries which aren’t in the Maori version which is the only one that mattered. Overflows of signatures were put on various copies but it was always said they were de facto the Treaty. The Maori one was the Treaty and no others were. They just collected an overflow of signatures.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:00pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Loddenthinks
        Many present-day ‘problems’ are definitely related to what some people did or didn’t do many years ago. To take one very famous example, disputes about what various provisions of their constitution mean have great relevance to current political issues preoccupying many in the US.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:03pm
      - leoj
        
        What written language did maori have at that time?
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:20pm
    - Unity
      
      The Maori text is the only one that matters. If you want to know what it means you only have to read the so-called Littlewood Treaty which was the final draft before being translated into the Maori text. The current English version in legislation is an earlier draft and differs from the Maori text so is useless. As everything was completed virtually immediately it all needs to be filed away because what is happening today is a great big injustice to everyone else.
      
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      January 9, 2023 12:57pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The ‘Littlewood Treaty’ is a red herring. All that matters really is the Maori text and how that was presented and explained to the chiefs who signed the treaty on behalf of their iwi.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:05pm
      - Unity
        
        I’m not sure I was very clear above. Will try and put it clearer. The Maori version (the only one that matters) had ‘and all the people of New Zealand’ but did not have ‘forests and fisheries’. The final draft before translation had ‘and all the people of New Zealand’ but also did not have ‘forests and fisheries’. Therefore the English version currently in legislation differs and was NOT the final draft. The ‘Littlewood’ version was the final draft and for those who don’t speak Maori all they need to do is read this draft because it was the final one and is word perfect (as far as is possible in a translation) as the Maori Treaty which is the only one that matters. I hope this makes it all much easier to understand.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:27pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think there might be a principle in international (perhaps even contract) law that interpretation should be based on the language of one party. In this case, the Maori version, as read and explained in 1840, should count for more than any
        English draft that had been translated into Maori. So contemporary evidence of what Maori understood from terms such as kawanatanga is quite relevant.
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:39pm
      - virtualmark
        
        The general principle is that where there’s ambiguity that ambiguity should generally be interpreted in favour of the party who did not write the contract.
        
        That’s a principle not a hard and fast rule. For example other aspects of the law or contract might mean that favourable interpretation is not legal or workable.
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:25pm
    - Paulus
      
      But the Maori version of the Treaty can be interpreted to whatever you want it to, as there is no definite language but a few spoken original words by some tribal Maori.
      
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      January 9, 2023 1:38pm
- Yvette
  
  Is there a book on ‘Te Ao Maori’, the Maori worldview / religion, to explain what Maori offer to present day “civilisation” – the “code” by which a nation lives, so if the politicians / woke influencers continue, what do Maori offer to the 83 percent non-Maori New Zealanders, or what do they face?
  And is it a present day Te Ao Maori view, or does it revert to circa 1840?
  Would it advance New Zealand into the future or live from the past?
  afaf
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:44am
  - Ehlana
    
    There are ancient books of scripture, as there was no written language. And I suspect that, like other worldviews, it is open to interpretation.
    
    A quick Google suggests Tikanga by Keri Opai and Aroha, Maori Wisdom For A Contented Life Lived In Harmony With Our Planet by Hinemoa Elder.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:12am
    - Yvette
      
      to Elana anf Maggy Wassilieff, below –
      Thank you for your suggestions
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:46am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Is there a book on ‘Te Ao Maori’, the Maori worldview / religion,
    
    A good starting point would be to read:
    “The Natural World of the Maori” by Margaret Orbell
    
    There is a book entitled:
    “Te Ao O Te Maori” by Ruth Naumann
    – who seems to be (or was) a Social Studies teacher…. I’ve not read it.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:15am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Elsdon Best wrote on Maori Religion/Spiritual Aspects… and quite a lot of his observations get recycled in more modern works…
    
    “Maori Religion and Mythology ”
    
    “Maori Eschatology”
    
    “Some Aspects of Maori Myth and Religion”
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:27am
  - Taieri
    
    Books by Paul Moon. Too numerous to list here.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:38am
  - Jack5
    
    “The Coming of the Maori”, by Sir Peter Buck (Te Rangi Hiroa), first published in 1949, is still well worth reading.
    
    Buck, who had a Maori mother and a White father, was a medical doctor who became an MP. He served with Maori troops overseas in World War 1.
    
    Later he did much anthropology work in the Pacific.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:42am
  - Unity
    
    Te Reo today is a made-up language and many words have different meanings today to what they did in 1840. In 1840 life was exceeding simple and Stone Age so it was vastly different when the Treaty was written to today and can’t compare. It should have long been filed away instead of trying to tease so many different meanings from the Treaty today that simply aren’t there. It was a document for those times only.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:04pm
- Caine9
  
  Luxon’s AirNZ decisions we’re targeted at the business’ international market where such credentials do actually matter.
  Muddling them with New Zealand politics is not a valid comparison.
  Commercial and political imperatives are frequently at variance.
  Doesn’t mean he’s not as you say, but the direct connection simply isn’t valid.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:49am
  - Mike H S
    
    Time will tell I dear say.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:47pm
  - The Redbaiter
    
    Except that in his maiden speech to parliament he boasted about everything he had done at Air NZ.
    
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    January 9, 2023 3:38pm
    - leoj
      
      A wokester wearing a blue tie.
      
      Big deal.
      
      Can’t be trusted.
      
      National should have stuck with Bridges.
      
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      January 9, 2023 5:24pm
- Simon
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  National are going to bring in 100,000 Africans / Indians per year rather than fix the country to encourage the young, hard working to remain.
  
  If you dont like it you can just fuck off.
  Party Vote National 2023.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:50am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Unmitigated nonsense.
    
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    January 9, 2023 11:58am
  - Mike H S
    
    Not a particularly intellectual nor informed comment.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:49pm
  - Ghost
    
    Well I hope they bring in more doctors and nurses to start with because we badly need them, but I’m sure you’ll find a way to distort that. Btw, one of the best orthopaedic surgeons down here is South African, guess you’d want him kicked out, meet some lovely Indian nurses too.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:55pm
    - Keith White
      
      Well said, Ghost. We need people judged by competency, not melanin.
      
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      January 9, 2023 9:48pm
      - Keith White
        
        Ah, the downticker who prefers to judge by melanin and not competency; I’m pretty sure I met the people you recruited in one of the quarantine hotels for the pox-lottery ‘winners’ when I was incarcerated there in February a year ago,.
        
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        January 10, 2023 5:44am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Redbaiter,
  
  What makes you think a large percentage of New Zealanders are hard rightists as per the US?
  The overall views of Luxon, Willis and Stanford are pretty much in accord with the majority of conservative voters in New Zealand.
  I suspect you don’t have a particularly good understanding of where the mid point of the social and economic views is for New Zealand. For just about the entirety of New Zealand’s history New Zealand has had reasonably interventionist governments with substantial social and economic agendas. New Zealand is typically forward leaning on most social issues and that has always been the case.
  To the extent that there is a hands off approach, that sits in the Act party. Even there it has been substantially moderated by David Seymour and Brooke van Velden.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:54am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Wayne.
    
    What frustrates Centre Right voters like myself, about National is the constant caving to Left Wing ideas in the welfare and race policy areas.
    
    They talk up, when not in control of the treasury benches, how they will roll back race base policy and welfareism – and then just dont. They embedded and tidy up the worse bits but leave the structure of bad policy intact so Labour just build off that structure and move NZ ever further LEft.
    
    Radical change is needed to roll back the ever growing working age population dependent on tax transfers from workers. It dis-incentivises the actual workers who generate the tax base and gives no incentive to the bludgers.
    
    Your tiresome ”its the middle” call ignores the fact that National never attempt to SHIFT the middle consensus back towards standard centre right values of work, thrift and personal responsibility.
    
    Labour constantly seek to shift the Centre consensus towards Left wing ideals – it is classical creeping Fabianism in action.
    
    I find you Labour Lite philosophy tedious and you batting for Left wing ideas disappointed, given your past as a Minister in National governments
    
    New Zealand used to despise bludging – now its almost a badge of honour to bludge and be anti social.
    
    You may be insulated from the negative societal effects of Left wing welfarism and racial policies via your parliamentary pension enabling you to live a nice sheltered life…
    
    But I don’t have that advantage – I see the consequences every time I go to my local suburb shopping area in the anti-social behaviour and growing anti-european racism.
    
    National needs to sort out its role and that role is not safety first better management – but stopping and reversing the slow burn destruction of New Zealand that Labour and The Greens are driving.
    
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    January 9, 2023 9:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Very well said. The National / Labour consensus over the last 30 years has resulted in the Ministry of Education monstrosity and the ruination of the schooling system.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:27am
    - Ronin
      
      Agree 100%
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:38am
    - Clownworld
      
      The Overton window means what was right is now left of centre.
      
      Corporate Communist Globalism describes almost every country in the world now.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:52am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      No-one elected after 1992 has a parliamentary pension.
      What actual radical change do you want? Not bromides, actual policy.
      From what I know, National is not going to be campaigning for radical change in 2023. Much more in the nature of moderate conservatism. I know that most Kiwibloggers want radical change, but let’s face it, the commentary here is well skewed to the right. More Act than National.
      
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      January 9, 2023 1:10pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’m guessing that no race-based entitlements, and one law for all New Zealanders irrespective of their ethnicity is “radical change” for you, Wayne?
        
        I put it to you that those ideals are fundamental human rights, and the pursuit of them should be orthogonal to any political leanings.
        
        The problem is that you and your ilk who pursue The Centre™ have deliberately nurtured racial division in order to secure power, and that is odious.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:33pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Cut Welfare payments and decouple from wages. Subsistence level only with a work for top up scheme.
        
        Compulsory under 30s in work or training – attack the gang recruits by forcing them to turn up on time. No turn up no government coin.
        
        No addition payments if a person on the DPB has another child
        
        No DPB if father not name
        
        Any Gang member or associate who commits a crime – compulsory jail, no deductions for cultural reports, no discounts for guilty pleas. All gang crime attracts double time penalty – and maximum sentence in all cases, no discounts. Also no parole for gang crimes. You do the full bird.
        
        Repeal “the principles of ToW”‘ and remove all need for Iwi consultation in any activity – if Iwi want to be heard they apply like everyone else.
        
        Reform the Public service – no direct entry from university. All graduates need to have worked 5 years in the private sector before being allowed to join the Public service.
        
        Outsource and centralise building permits (co-production model similar to Radio Spectrum licensing – central register and audit, actual permit reviews conducted by private sector) – local councils are an impediment to the process, get them out of the way.
        
        Reform and streamline RMA – this is a big and has a lot of detail. But endless appeals and nimbys constantly stopping housing development is not acceptable. Look at Urban limits in Auckland and release more land for housing
        
        Reform the Ministry of Education – allow more charter schools, focus public schools on core reading, writing, arithmetic and logical critical thinking skills. Cut all culture studies
        
        Reform the Teaching Qualification process – remove all Maori studies requirement. Ensure all teachers can teach the 3 R’s to a good level – Primary school teachers anxious when teaching math is unacceptable.
        
        Get rid of the Ministry of Maori Affairs, Pacific Island Affairs, Min for Women. Comprehensive review and cull of agencies – Climate Commission can go straight away (repeal enable and driving legislation)
        
        Stop the ToW settlement process – Iwi who havent signed up – ring fence a settlement amount, but no more negotation and no more claims – get rid of the Waitangi Tribunal
        
        Cull regulations via simplification
        
        That will do for a start Wayne.
        
        No money for nothing, no racial polices – need should drive Tax payer support only.
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:08pm
      - Swifty
        
        “…but let’s face it, the commentary here is well skewed to the right. More Act than National.”
        
        And there, Wayne, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
        
        National should be Act.
        
        But they’re not and haven’t been for decades.
        
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        January 9, 2023 4:38pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Wayne. I think you should give the whole story. Not cherry pick parliamentary pensions.
        
        For MPs elected before 1992, who have served consistently since that date, there is an entitlement to membership of the Government Superannuation Fund (GSF) scheme, which provides for a pension on leaving Parliament that reflects years of service.
        
        MPs elected after 1992 are entitled to a superannuation subsidy contribution. The scheme can be KiwiSaver or a registered retirement, savings, or superannuation scheme.
        
        Currently that is a $2.50 contribution for every $1 put in to a scheme by an MP.
        
        Bloggers can do their own assessment of the niceness of the taxpayer subsidy.
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:38pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        @Swifty
        
        The thing is that Wayne does not seem to realise how many former National supporters and voters are here at Kiwiblog, people who not only voted for National multiple times in the last twenty years but defended Key’s government here against Lefty commentators on many issues.
        
        And far from being “Hard Right” or “Extreme Right” or whatever stupid, shallow Lefty slur is applied to them by the likes of Wayne – and the fact he would use the same slurs as them is quite the tell – the fact is that if you’ve lost people like them then you’re in trouble, if not in terms of votes (and this time in Opposition, National has been down for longer than in the early 2000’s, which I thought was its nadir), then certainly in terms of doing any good once you’re back in government.
        
        If some fundamental changes are not made to healthcare, education and welfare then the next Labour-led government circa 2029 or 2032 is going to be even worse than this one.
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:54pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        JimBobJoe,
        Well, yes, much of that list is radical. Most of it won’t be National Party policy. But you already know that.
        Much of it is the Act prescription, although some of it would be too radical for them as well.
        Ra Henare, you are right about Parliamentary super. I have explained all of that here in the past. My comment was directed at those who still think there is a traditional pension, which certainly was gold plated.
        
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        January 10, 2023 6:57am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Good. I’ve that same point many times, and I’ll also add this, Unity and Utopias:
      
      I can’t help thinking this attitude about “unity”, bi-partisanship and the Great Centrist Pursuit is a hangover from National Party people who came of age in the 1970’s/80’s world.
      
      That was a world (1945-1990) where the National Party had been in power most of the time. By 1990 it was 29 of those 45 years – and for more than one term too, meaning real control (even the Labour count should be reduced since it includes 4 years of post-war Labour love and 6 years of Rogernomics, the very opposite of the Left’s ideas). In that world it probably made sense to cling to whatever centre Labour had created, which was massive control and influence of the State in every sphere of life.
      
      But since then National and Labour are pretty much even – 18 years Nat vs 14 years Labour – and since 1999 Labour have 14 vs 9 out of 23 years.
      
      And here’s the thing with that Labour success: you never hear them or their activists, whether in public or on blogs like TDB and The Standard ever talking the same way as Nick Smith, DPF and National – going on and on and on about “The Centre is Where Victory Lies” and “unity”.
      …
      In 2017, Ardern’s government got there on the basis of her freshness, telegenic abilities and the pettiness of Winston Peters. Have you heard anything about what has been done in the last five years as them appealing to the Centre?
      
      No. And yet there we are with 14 out of 23 years in power and plenty of stuff done that the Left wanted – even if they want still more done …
      
      So why does National keep talking up – in public – things like unity, bipartisanship and appealing to the Great Centrist voter (swing voter)? There’s no longer any evidence that it’s any more successful than Labour’s True Believing approach.
      
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      January 9, 2023 3:27pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    For the most part of its history NZ’s socialism was paid for by its agricultural practical conservatism. That funding is drying up and being killed off. The country is being run by women whose main expertise is talking, stopping people doing things and shopping. Poverty beckons.
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:47am
    - MCōs
      
      “The country is being run by women whose main expertise is talking, stopping people doing things and shopping.”
      
      Never have I seen such simplistic, misogynistic, provocative garbage, but I expect you know that.
      
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      January 9, 2023 12:03pm
      - pussycat
        
        It appears women, especially in acidaemia, are at the forefront of the woke movement. Logic and reason seem to get bypassed.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:54pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        It’s unfortunately exactly accurate. It is why we have Jacinda and why the Government does stupid.
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:35pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        You might like to consider that historically NZ women like their men made things – clothes, preserves, jams, managed poultry, grew and picked fruit and vegetables. That’s all gone and with it the practical common sense necessary to deal with reality. Now, aside from nursing, it’s all words – marketing, media, bureaucracy, “education”, PR, retail, tourism and variants of paper pushing. Of course a lot of men are not much different but where things are being made, fixed or created it’s mostly by men.
        
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        January 9, 2023 6:58pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        MCos:
        I know a lot of women who would agree with Alan.
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:50pm
  - The Redbaiter
    
    Mr Mapp- I have responded to this comment. Please see below.
    
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    January 9, 2023 11:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  @Redbaiter. Let me tell you something. Luxon needs to re educate himself on National values, not Labour Lite values. If he does not get his shit together soon, National will lose my Vote. Many think the same as me. It will be two ticks for Act. Being in Upper Harbour would probably mean my candidate vote goes nowhere (I don’t even know if Act will field a candidate in Upper Harbour.
  Anyway, my Party vote will definitely never be wasted!
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:57am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    Nationals pitiful response to Winston going with Ardern lost them my vote, membership, fundraising activities, and time committed to party governance. Nothing they have done since including selecting Luxon has brought me back. Even Act is now crossing political lines I don’t like in preparation for coalition. It’s getting tough as I don’t feel like there is much of any party that represents me any more.
    
    I guess that’s what I get for being a classical liberal and libertarian in a world where everyone wants to be in charge of others rather than worrying about themselves.
    
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    January 9, 2023 9:12am
    - leoj
      
      Same boat here Deane.
      The entire government, meaning all 120 MPs ALL hid behind Jacinda’s skirt during the protest.
      Seymour included as he missed one huge opportunity to score big and move more votes from a weak National party over to ACT.
      He blew it.
      National are hopeless. Just a slower-moving version of Labour.
      Those who think that Luxon is going to the great saviour are going to massively disappointed. He is no more than a woke, maori sympathiser.
      First clue? The politician he admires most is Obama.
      The govt may change but nothing else will. The country is screwed, either way.
      
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      January 9, 2023 5:37pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Based on all your comments, Act will be a much better place for you. National will never be conservative enough for you. The beauty of MMP; most political viewpoints are catered for.
    
    29 23
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    January 9, 2023 9:15am
    - Deane Jessep
      
      In principal I agree Wayne, Act is definitely more conservative in values than the current National.
      
      The downside of MMP though is that the government that forms is usually paralysed with ideological trade offs.
      
      This has tended to sacrifice governmental competence.
      
      At the same time though, when Ardern won over 50%, I thought to myself; “oh well, democracy has spoken, at least they now have the votes to move society forward in some way and get some stuff done”.
      
      So much for that, they have progressed an agenda that hasn’t achieved anything much operationally and by their own measures we are even further behind on almost all social and economic indicators.
      
      So it seems I was wrong, and FPP or MMP doesn’t matter after all. Ideological capture inside a single party is just as damaging to competent operational execution.
      
      What’s the fix? I am at a loss now, don’t know. Everyone seems so fixated on their own pet pony’s that no one in either type of government gets anything much done.
      
      26 4
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      January 9, 2023 9:29am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Re your electorate vote, ACT will field candidates in every electorate (with the possible exception of the moddy seats). Two ticks gold will send a good message to National, who as others have commented, campaign on the right and govern on the left.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:01pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My very first vote was for Labour. Not based on Politics, but the promise of abolishing compulsory military training. Every Election since then my vote went to National, even the Party vote under MMP.
      Sorry Wayne, National are not up to standard in 2023. Change, or I drop them.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:23am
      - leoj
        
        Drop them is the answer.
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:39pm
      - peterwn
        
        The Compulsory Military Training Scheme (introduced at the instigation of grumpy old RSA type farts) was a big balls-up. It was ran jointly between Labour Department and the Army. There was a big misfit between those selected via Labour Department and what the Army could take so there was a increasing backlog of selected people who had no idea when they would be sent to Waiouru. It was becoming so politically embarassing that the government canned the scheme.
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:47pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The “beauty” of MMP has resulted in politicians like Golriz Ghahraman, Julie Ann Genter, and that Mexican Guy.
      
      There is nothing beautiful about it.
      
      64 4
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      January 9, 2023 10:31am
      - Ian Boag
        
        The “beauty” of MMP has resulted in politicians like …
        
        the other 9 ACT ones from whom we hear so much …. 🙂
        
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        December 9, 2022 2:04pm
      - zulumonster
        
        “The “beauty” of MMP has resulted in politicians like …”
        We should never forget the poster child of the vagaries of MMP – Alamein Kopu. It’s not nice to speak ill of the dead but a quick read of her Wikipedia Political Career is enough to highlight the perverseness of the wonderful new system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamein_Kopu
        
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        January 9, 2023 11:36am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @zulumonster that’s perhaps a bit harsh. She managed some good quality knitting during her time on the benches.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:03pm
      - Mike
        
        A cursory reading of NZ political history would identify many more peculiar politicians.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:25pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Not to you no.
        
        But it is true that Gloria, Genter and the Mexican guy do represent a legitimate group of New Zealand voters.
        
        Personally I think those voters are at best misguided and at worst nuts. But in a democracy they have a right to be represented (by the equally misguided and nutty).
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:28pm
      - kowtow
        
        Loddenthinks
        
        Talking of parliamentary benches , did taxpayers ever get that missing furniture back ……….
        
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        January 9, 2023 4:12pm
    - Jack5
      
      MMP, with its coalition government, does represent wider points of view than two main parties — as in the United States or Britain and New Zealand of old.
      
      However, there is usually much diversity of opinion within two main parties.
      
      “First past the post” provides more decisive government, and tends to be more stable. Consider the chaos in the old Reichstag with its earlier version of MMP, and what that chaos led to in Germany’s Weimar Republic of the 1920s and early 1930s.
      
      Supporters of MMP coalition government bring up how poorly represented, or under-represented, Social Credit voters were under a strong surge in support for that magic in New Zealand.
      
      Given the mad blow-out of our money supply by Robertson and Adrian Orr, perhaps that under-representation was FPP government showing its strength against a temporary burst of Alan Greenspan’s “irrational exuberance”.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:33am
      - Ian Boag
        
        “First past the post” provides more decisive government, and tends to be more stable
        
        Indeed.
        
        40% of the popular vote can generate 60% of the seats. A government can have a seat majority despite not getting the most votes. 20% of the popular vote might get 5% of the seats or none …
        
        Recent experience in the UK doesn’t really fit with the “more stable” tag …
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:11pm
    - crikey
      
      Wayne: “The beauty of MMP; most political viewpoints are catered for.”
      
      That is true only as far as being able to set up a party with views distinguishing it from others. Voting for such parties almost invariably results in votes being wasted (threshold not being reached) with no effective political influence. If they are needed so that a major party can form a coalition their influence far exceeds their support.
      
      The fact that post-election coalition horse-trading results in policies not evident, not disclosed or abandoned, prior to voting is a significant downside.
      
      There is no beauty about MMP.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:03am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “There is no beauty about MMP.”
        
        Indeed. We have the country being trashed by a party that got approx 2% of the vote. WTF?
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:56pm
      - crikey
        
        The key point is that if we are choosing which political party we will give our vote to we should know what we are voting for. There is much we don’t know under MMP because of post-election negotiating, and in the 2020 election also because Ardern deliberately withheld the transformational He Puapua and co-governance policies.
        
        At least under FPP parties published a manifesto and could be held to account over it.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:24pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Not a chance National or Act will get my vote based on principles. Labour and Greens and Maori are an anathema to me.
      
      There is no other party that will get over 5% that fundamentally has principles the same as mine.
      
      I have always voted albeit with dead rats,going with the maxim “the lesser of two or more evils”.
      
      Now I want more than voting in evil or incompetent people.
      
      Independents please stand up. I want real change and choice.
      
      Not the establishment.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:06am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Then you are happy with the damage this divisive Marxist regime has foisted soon us
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:19pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Wayne – yet astonishingly not one of the 120 MPs sitting in the Beehive catered for the viewpoints of the protesters in Wellington – or the almost one third of NZers who supported their actions.
      
      How is that possible in a properly functioning democracy?
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:59am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If your claim was true, a political movement would have formed capable of garnering more than 1-2% of this year’s vote. Participants in the coalition of losers who infested Thorndon for weeks have very little in common with each other, politically.
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:10pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        milky – which “claim” did I make that you doubt the truthfulness of? Oh. That there are 120 MPs in parliament? Whoops, 1 overhang seat making it 121. Silly me.
        
        At least the important bit about NZers support for the protesters was accurate.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127808790/parliament-protest-new-poll-shows-30-per-cent-of-kiwis-support-antimandate-protest
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:21pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        My point was that if 30% of the population supported their actions, statistically at least a few of the MPs could have done so as they are meant to govern for all of us. I’m sure that’s what Brenda said pre election……
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:23pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Mike – while you claim the Protestors were losers and an infestation a significant number of NZers actually believe they raised the standards in Thorndon and surrounds. Particularly considering the usual standard of persons clustered in and around The Hive.
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:32pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Milky – the protest at parliament was a number of different groups with a common agenda of opposing the governments vaccine mandates. They were not a cohesive political movement. In the Polls elements of the protest have been achieving the 1-2% you mention e.g New Conservatives, Vision NZ, The Outdoors Party.
        
        However, you either need one celebrity leader to get the party an electorate seat or the party needs to get over 5%. There is a history of minor parties not making it across the threshold which just gives the major parties a bigger share of the electorate. So current polls will be lowered by voters not willing to waste their vote.
        
        The freedom movement may become more cohesive and I know if they were able to demonstrate the ability to win a seat that they would get a much bigger share of electorate vote than current polls are showing.
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:43pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Your 30% should be readily translating into a political movement. I don’t know where that figure came from or how it has changed over time. Perhaps it’s an aggregate of the 225,000 people who voted in 2020 for parties other than those represented in parliament but that’s only about 8% of the 82% turnout from eligible voters.
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:50pm
      - virtualmark
        
        It’s possible because the protestors in Wellington represented well under 1% of the population.
        
        Sure, a larger percentage of the population had sympathy for some of their causes.
        
        But if you were to form a political party based on the Wellington protestor’s platform (and you are free to do that) then I am sure it would struggle to get 1-2% of the vote let alone 5%.
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:31pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        virtualmark – that claim of less than 1% is beyond stupid. For want of a better name, the “freedom movement” represents hundreds of thousands of NZers. But mandates are a single issue policy and not enough to form a political party.
        They don’t want to run a political party. They wanted an end to tyrannical policies.
        
        My point is still the same, if they represent even only 2% of the population then logic would say that out of 120 MPs, 2 or 3 should have been of the same opinion.
        But many of them are overpaid parasites who know that if they don’t toe the party line, their gravy train is over.
        
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        January 9, 2023 4:14pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        “coalition of losers who infested Thorndon”
        
        This from an odious little troll who knows nothing other than what its feeble mind mopped up from the msm.
        
        I was there, milky. I have NEVER seen a more diverse group of New Zealanders united in pursuit of a noble outcome. And we got it, despite you and other freedom-hating miscreants hurling abuse from the safety of your keyboard.
        
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        January 9, 2023 6:38pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Clan,
        
        1% of the voting population would be about 40,000 people. I’d wager there were no more than 4,000 people on Parliament grounds in that protest. Even if you had 10 motivated passionate sympathisers for every protestor – and I think 10x is a stretch – then you’re still only scratching at about 1% of the voting population.
        
        Sure, it’s probably more like 20% of the Kiwiblog commenters. And a larger percentage of the people you identify with.
        
        But the views regularly expressed here in GD are fringe views, expressed with lots of passion and anger, but not at all representative of the average Kiwi.
        
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        January 9, 2023 9:53pm
  - Deane Jessep
    
    I should clarify, I really just want a live and let live government that doesn’t get in my face and manages the things we trust them with competently.
    
    In some areas I’d be considered an ultra-conservative, in other areas classic liberal, and in others libertarian.
    
    The lack of competence fueled by distraction politics is pissing me off even more than the group think messing with freedom. Though both are interlinked.
    
    47 2
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    January 9, 2023 9:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Say it, you don’t want a govt with a Tyrannical Leader.
      
      17 3
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      January 9, 2023 10:25am
    - Clownworld
      
      Couldn’t agree more Deane.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:08am
    - virtualmark
      
      But real life is more complex than that.
      
      What is “live and let live” to you will not be to another NZ voter.
      
      Government is, by necessity, a blunt instrument for delivering to a large mass of people. It involves compromises and trade-offs. And almost every Government action that is intended to help the broad mass inevitably ends up hurting a smaller minority.
      
      But history says that that is a better way of running your country than the other possible systems.
      
      4 3
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      January 9, 2023 3:33pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        I agree with what you are saying in principal, though not in ideology. As a libertarian I want minimal government. And specifically I want a government that sticks to doing exactly what it says it will operationally.
        
        Also, agree with your comment re good system. But it’s getting worse not better. If we were to consider an overhaul I prefer the Swiss model. (Though with a bit more privatisation than they have).
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland
        
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        January 9, 2023 4:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Forgot. ” Why are so many Kiwibloggers in such a rush to replace a PM who repulses them with politicians who think pretty much the same as Ardern does?”
  Because Ardern is poison. Go back to her 2009 speech as President of the International Union of Socialist Youth. I knew she was dangerous then. Yip yip, that’s what it is. She is only now beginning to show her true colours. NZ is seeing the start of a Coup. It is not Co-Governance, it is Tyranny. NZ will be ruled by the Elite Maori Tyrants. Ardern is giving Maori whatever they wan because of her delusion of staying in power.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:07am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    Agreed. The lesser of two evils is still the lesser.
    
    37 4
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    January 9, 2023 9:14am
    - Clownworld
      
      I think it might be time all vote for none of the above or no confidence.
      
      Lesser of two evils, nothing is gained nothing is changed.
      
      The soul just kills itself slowly by being pragmatic and swallowing more dead rats. Do it long enough you will have no principles left.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:13am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        You must be fun at parties.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:04pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        It’s more that we’re facing the evil of two lessers.
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        mcgillicuddy serious party
        
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        January 10, 2023 6:13pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      We would rather have a vacuum of leadership than a tyrant.
      
      6 2
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      January 9, 2023 2:45pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I never thought I’d see the day in NZ when what I said could and would be reported to the Police eh?
    It’s on its way, she hasn’t ruled out Hate Speech legislation.
    No doubt her Maori Caucus has been tasked with the legislation as ‘Home-Work over the holiday season.
    
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    January 9, 2023 9:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Tyranny. What she said in her UN speech was sinister and creepy.
      Most dismissed it. Those who did should watch again and open their mind.
      
      15 2
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      January 9, 2023 11:30am
- coge
  
  A very large issue for National is how they endorsed and openly participated in the dehumanization of a large bloc of the NZ population in 2022. During that time, they were wholly impotent in their brief to oppose the Govt. When they were absolutely required to.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:56am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, it cost nothing to go and talk to the Anti Mandate protestors at parliament and National deliberately ignored that opportunity.
    Cindy has since walked back her mandate dictates but how vote-grabbing would it have been if she had retreated to a National espoused position?
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:34am
    - Clownworld
      
      Just a question as out of the country, have private companies removed mandates under guise of health and safety?
      
      10 3
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      January 9, 2023 11:22am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Clownworld – private companies are still able to impose mandates with Ardern’s blessing and are doing so. It becomes an employment condition matter I believe, though Voices for Freedom are working hard to support people who are discriminated against like this.
        
        To be clear, the mandate issue has not passed. Thousands of New Zealanders are still subject to vaccine mandates in their area of employment. The Government retains the right to reinstate mandates at any time. We are unaware that any political party has changed its stance to oppose the use of mandates. The Horizon poll conducted during the parliamentary protest highlighted that one in three Kiwis supported the protesters and their goal to end the mandates. Members of the public are still using our legal resources to seek redress for unethical and unlawful dismissal, with one such case recently winning and being awarded $30k in damages, wages, and costs.
        
        https://www.voicesforfreedom.co.nz/blog/post/scraps-cutting-room-floor
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:07pm
      - Clownworld
        
        Sorry to hear that, so the woke corporates are still doing the Devil’s work.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:11pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Likewise, students have to have 2 jabs & a booster to be able to get into Uni. Its a travesty – the least vulnerable are being forced to take a dangerous medication which will do nothing for them – except make them ill or even kill them.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:43pm
    - My
      
      100% all it would have taken was a quick chat. Show that even if you disagree you can listen. Not sure why any poli but Luigi (he who caused the mess we are in) could see that.
      
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      January 9, 2023 12:43pm
    - leoj
      
      Seymour missed his opportunity too.
      
      7 2
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      January 9, 2023 5:49pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        He didn’t miss the opportunity. He actively hid from it. It is probably the only time I’d identify his behaviour as being cowardly.
        
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        January 9, 2023 6:43pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Leo: Seymour disappointed me the most. Still can’t believe he didn’t step out amongst the crowd and ask questions/listen. Something I’ll never forgive unless he actually says “sorry, I was wrong”.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:44pm
  - The Redbaiter
    
    Nicola Willis couldn’t wait to denigrate the protesters. She first started maligning them when they were on the road to Wellington, (“oh, we’ve seen them all before”) and ended by signing a letter with Grant Robertson and Jimmy Shaw asking the protesters to leave the parliament grounds.
    
    You know if Nicola had had the presence to speak as Christine Anderson speaks, I would be shouting her praises from the rooftops. Go vote for Nicola!!!
    
    She didn’t though. She said the exact opposite, and along with Erica Stanford, even recklessly advocated for kids to be vaccinated.
    
    Here’s Christine Anderson’s speech. If only one NZ MP had had the guts to say the same.
    
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1610776012832538625
    
    29 5
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    January 9, 2023 11:54am
    - leoj
      
      Yup, National acted disgracefully.
      They do not deserve my vote after hiding behind Jacinda’s skirt.
      
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      January 9, 2023 5:53pm
  - 2ic
    
    @coge
    Spot on – this is the #1 issue I’ll be voting on this election. National and Act should have been there to defend the right of New Zealanders but they were just nowhere to be found.
    
    Judging by their behaviour in opposition, I don’t think anything would have been much different under National or Act in our Covid response, mandates and the response to the Parliament protest. I still can’t believe Seymour, of all people, was in boot and all for ostracising the unvaccinated from society. Just see for yourself at the 5:00 mark:
    
    https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=220392
    “We are going to have to consider what sort of rights people have to stipulate vaccination – not that another person must be vaccinated unconditionally – but that they will only transact with a person if that person is vaccinated”
    
    I ‘ve voted National for the last 30 years until voting Act last election, but both parties have lost my vote now.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:39pm
    - Colville
      
      So in effect you are going to support Labour. Brilliant.
      
      10 5
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      January 9, 2023 2:34pm
      - leoj
        
        Not your response……
        Far from brilliant. Dumb.
        
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        January 9, 2023 5:55pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Thinking Chris “Get Jabbed/Boosted” Bishop. Still appalls me.
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:41pm
- softail 1450
  
  Redbaiter, thanks for that eye opening summary, We are going to be choosing between tweedledee and tweedledum later this year it seems with very little chance of any improvement politically.
  
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  January 9, 2023 10:22am
  - Diogenes
    
    Sadly, softail, I fear it is a choice between tweedledum and tweedledummer.
    
    14 1
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    January 9, 2023 11:29am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The current clown show have NZ in a steep nose dive.
    
    National/ACT (especially the nats by all indications) will have the country in the usual slow glide to ruin.
    
    The latter choice will buy time.
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:08pm
- Clownworld
  
  The deep seeded problem for Luxon and National is that they agree with most of the ideological nonsense that Labour and Ardern do.
  
  Climate change, green flavoring, identity politics, covidian responses, welfare statism, authoritarian leadership, printing money, control of the population, woke ideals,adherence to global bodies like UN and WHO etc are all examples of how both parties are similar and obviously driven by other agendas.
  
  They are corrupt and puppets.
  
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  January 9, 2023 10:35am
  - peterwn
    
    It is not a problem, it is a political necessity. There would be only fringe appeal for Redbaiter style of politics.
    
    9 15
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    January 9, 2023 11:10am
    - The Redbaiter
      
      peterwn- please see my response below to Mr Mapp. It applies just as well to you.
      
      11 2
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      January 9, 2023 12:18pm
      - peterwn
        
        It is too long winded to bother reading. Anyway could you please provide me a link to Nationals “Founding Principles” whatever they are. Incidentally National’s constitution and rules is on the web for all to see.
        
        4 9
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        January 9, 2023 1:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        peterwn
        I believe his favourite quote is:
        
        “To promote good citizenship and self-reliance; to combat communism and socialism; to maintain freedom of contract; to encourage private enterprise; to safeguard individual rights and the privilege of ownership; to oppose interference by the State in business, and State control of industry”.
        
        That was in 1936.
        Once Sid Holland took charge in 1940 achieving and wielding power, the usual motivation for politicians, became the guiding principles. So even when first forming a government, Sid’s party embraced social democratic principles and state ownership and control of many aspects of life.
        
        9 2
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        January 9, 2023 2:16pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Peterwn – “It is too long winded to bother reading”
        
        This from someone who routinely reads 100-page judgements and kindly provides us with succinct summaries?
        
        I get it that having your beloved National framed at leftie, woke, eco-fascist Labour-lite is uncomfortable, I do. But you’re better that a ‘it’s too long to read’ disengagement- surely?
        
        8 2
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        January 9, 2023 6:50pm
- Than
  
  Welcome back Redbaiter. Your incoherent rants have always been a great source of laughs and entertainment.
  
  8 19
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  January 9, 2023 11:02am
- peterwn
  
  So?
  
  6 5
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  January 9, 2023 11:06am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Because he’s the only realistic prospect for ensuring that the next Government doesn’t include Labour. At the moment that should be his sole priority.
  
  He will fail in that objective if he adopts a more overtly right-wing stance pre-election. All that will achieve is the gain of some votes from ACT, at the expense of losing the entire centre to Labour and thus losing the election.
  
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  January 9, 2023 11:08am
- James Stephenson
  
  I’ll say one thing, there’s no quicker way to make me switch off and start ignoring you than to use the “right/ wrong side of history” trope.
  
  8 1
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  January 9, 2023 11:08am
- blue collar
  
  I’m appalled by Willis’s comment re 40 year olds . Definitely voting ACT
  cheers brother baiter !
  
  18 4
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  January 9, 2023 11:14am
- Philview
  
  NZ was recently described as the wokest country on the planet. We have to face the fact that the woke have won the war here. However this Labour Government is structurally incompetent where decisions are made without consulting the leader. In any other country would a Minister be able to change a Bill without consulting the leader. National doesn’t have a strong Maori caucus and I don’t believe they will be pushing this Co-Governance agenda forward but will at least provide competent governance.
  
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  January 9, 2023 11:20am
  - Don Beckett
    
    I would Canada, UK, and Germany are probably more woke than NZ – but uts a tight call.
    
    10 2
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    January 9, 2023 12:53pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yes Redbaiter. Now that Mr Luxon has flip flopped on his policy of removing the envy tax of 39%, there is no difference between him and Right Honourable Ms Jacinda Ardern. I may vote even Labour and not bother as there won’t be any change under Mr Luxon.
  
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  January 9, 2023 11:54am
  - krazykiwi
    
    No, no. There would be a very visible and significant change: All the National tribals around these parts would instantly flip to justifying Luxon-led wokeness, eco-lunacy, bowing down to supranational elites, etc. Because, let’s face it. This stuff is fine when it’s not done by evil Labour.
    
    7 2
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    January 9, 2023 6:56pm
- yobi
  
  And that is why Act are getting my party vote.
  This years election will see National with a high candidate vote and low party vote, because of this Act have a high chance of getting over 20% party vote.
  There is also a possibility that woke Luxon might only make it to deputy PM.
  
  14 3
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  January 9, 2023 1:26pm
  - Ghost
    
    No there is no possibility. Act won’t be anything other than a minor party. Anything else is just people’s wet dreams. New Zealand will not vote anything other than a centre left or centre right government.
    
    6 11
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    January 9, 2023 1:31pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I suspect you’re right. When both major parties endorse the most significant annexation of civil liberties in our history, locking people in their homes, destroying businesses, generating 5 decades worth of debilitating debt and forcing experimental genetic injections on the masses and the battle is STILL between those parties then the brain dead masses get what they deserve, and the rest of us are dragged along.
      
      7 2
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      January 9, 2023 7:02pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “There is also a possibility that woke Luxon might only make it to deputy PM.”
    
    Now THAT would be poetic justice!!!
    
    3 2
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    January 9, 2023 8:12pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No, it’s utter lunacy by the author
      
      0 1
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      January 9, 2023 10:26pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Also this guy, I guess this will be my single issue in 2023:
  
  “I simply say to people, one, there’s a new regime, get with it folks; two, Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
  
  While he says there’s room for robust debate about the co-governance model between the Crown and iwi and hapū, Finlayson’s advice for dealing with the “sour right” behind the racist, resentful rhetoric: “We’ve just got to leave those losers behind and move on. They don’t like tangata whenua. They dream of a world that never was and never could be,” he says.
  
  As I put it having seen that:
  
  And the thing is that Finlayson fits in so perfectly with them and their born-to-rule arrogance. That wealthy Khandallah childhood; the Latin and French majors; the LLM and mixing in the highest echelons of our legal and political circles, not to mention the leaders of our various great iwi. No wonder National lapped him up and loved him. He could elegantly stick it to Labour and others on these issues.
  
  While all the time he was basically on the same side as them.
  
  And now in keeping with that Olympian attitude of superiority, in his mind the issue has already been decided by The Powers That Be – meaning the political elite of both National and Labour, plus our academic and legal communities – and now it’s just a matter of getting on with it.
  
  Elections? Democracy? Pfft.
  
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  January 9, 2023 3:09pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think I had better offer DPF a review of Finlayson’s autobiography.
    
    2 6
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    January 9, 2023 7:12pm
    - Jack5
      
      Some of us have read it, too, Milky.
      
      It’s easy going, no doubt due to Finlayson’s youthful grind in Latin.
      
      Finlayson’s Wellington-elitist, and was a skilful lawyer. The sweetheart deal he negotiated for Ngai Tahu is evidence of that.
      
      4 1
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      January 9, 2023 9:08pm
- Mr T
  
  Totally agree. Will need ACT to provide some backbone to National, or at least give them an excuse for some stronger policy.
  
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  January 9, 2023 7:54pm
Deane Jessep

If you’re going back to work today, have a great day! And may 2023 deliver on all the reasons why you do your job!
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January 9, 2023 8:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I am retired. I don’t want to be retired, but that is how it is. Company I worked for could not find another factory to lease, so assets are in storage, and the business is still for sale I think. A very well know name on the Shore.
  70 and want part time. I have 50 years of info at that same company to share.
  Anyway, to those starting back, enjoy it. If you are not enjoying your job, change it. Work should be fun, not something you are chained to!
  
  23 2
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  January 9, 2023 9:14am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    Cannot agree more, gotta love your job!
    
    What did you do for a living Steve?
    
    11 1
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    January 9, 2023 9:32am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Cut the steel and weld it. Fabricator.
      The Company is Reid Trailers. The name is still there as are the assets.
      Everyone I met who wanted parts and info to make their own, always come back and say to me “why didn’t you sell me the trailer? I wish I got you to build it” I tried.
      I spent a lot of time on design. Reid Trailers brought the multiroller boat trailer to the NZ market. It might sound easy, but the knowledge of say 3500kg breaking systems is not for amateurs. My mechanical knowledge extends to motor vehicles, as with machine tool setting (press brakes and guillotine) Then 3 and single phase wiring. Hydraulic valve bodies I understand. Where do I stop?
      
      18 0
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      January 9, 2023 10:37am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You seem to have similar skills to my eldest brother
        (Boilermaker by trade- but ran his own Engineering workshop for years in South Taranaki).
        
        He’s never been able to fully retire (his body needs a rest)…and Local trucking firms were always in want of his skills and tools.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:56am
      - blue collar
        
        Great skill set steveo !
        I spose you’re happy up there and settled , if not , come to the naki my bro , tons of work requiring your skill set .
        
        11 0
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        January 9, 2023 11:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ blue collar. I am settled. Freehold house in a Trust. Vehicles, boats and caravan. 45 sq M deck with BBQ, Spa and large table/umbrella. Nice setup.
        Something local and lighter. Maybe only 3 days, 18 hours. A few problems – rotor cuff tendon and cubital tunnel both elbows. Health system is a mess, so I will be waiting some time.
        But thanks anyway. I just wish I could pass on a few things. Hey, I can weld. Most is MIG, but I also TIG, and being old school I can weld overhead with a 4mm stick.
        
        9 1
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        January 9, 2023 1:01pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Great skillset! Really wish I spent more time refining my welding when I was younger. My dad owned an agricultural engineering and fabrication business, my favorite tool was always the plasma cutter!
        
        Still ok with Arc and MIG welders but never had a chance to use a TIG. One of my old ICT customers is a Stainless Fabricator with a CNC controlled laser cutter that I used to support the software on. That was fun too!
        
        Mad respect to your career choice and experience!
        
        I could do with you right now as I am building a new small 2 x 3 workshop and just booked the sparky to tell me the highest AMP single phase circuit I can get into it direct off the meter box. (To future proof for welder).
        
        14 0
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        January 9, 2023 1:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        3500kg braking* systems ffs. How could I not spell ‘braking’ correctly when that is what I did?
        
        8 0
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        January 9, 2023 3:01pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Deane.
        Plasma cutter? Yep they are good these days. In the 70s it was all gas axe. These days plasma and cut off discs in the grinder.
        Laser cutting is amazing because it is so very accurate. Even water jet cutting.
        For your wiring, a heavy phase from the main to the fuse and then heavy cable to the shed main board (with another fuse) Needs to be done by a sparky for compliance.
        Now, here is something. Who can braze weld? I can, and uphill. The weld comes out looking like an aluminium TIG weld.
        Kit cars. Fraser 7, replica of the Lotus 7. I was involved in that. The current owner of Reid Trailers then decided to do a kit car. All from scratch, or from certain stages, to buying a finished car. Some exported to Japan, but with British motors. The Japanese did not want Japanese twin overhead cam motors. Fraser 7s started with a donor car, but all is made now. That donor car was a Triumph Herald!
        Jesus, there is so much more. Sheet metal work. I know of and can use ‘trammels’
        Supershuttle trailers – made by us.
        OK, time for a beer.
        
        10 0
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        January 9, 2023 3:23pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Deane Jessep at 1.14: for a comprehensive video on how to build your own laser cutter see link below.
        
        But there are a swag of laser cutters on sale at Aliexpress, typically from about $600 plus another $600 shipping, then there would be GST on top of the total. They have plasma cutters, too, and look a bit cheaper.
        
        I had plastic products laser cut by a contractor. Quick, clean and not expensive.
        
        https://youtu.be/mbo6soXn_kQ
        
        5 0
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        January 9, 2023 8:46pm
  - MCōs
    
    I retired at 65 due to yet another downturn in the construction industry.
    I’d like to have gone on another few years, but I was tired of ringing up our clients late at night in America to lyingly explain that our mistakes were actually their mistakes. Fortunately we kept far better records and could always refer to old phone conversations they hadn’t written down.
    So here we are in cosmopolitan Mangere Bridge.
    My wife misses the crowds, the markets, the corruption, but not the mad drivers and the violence.
    
    18 0
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    January 9, 2023 9:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I only stopped at 65 – 1/2 because the lease could not be renewed.
      Any idiot who spends 50 years at the same job, must have enjoyed it.
      
      13 1
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      January 9, 2023 10:40am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Bayern Munich has said that its Moroccan defender Noussair Mazraoui has swelling around his heart following the contraction of Covid at the World Cup.

‘This kind of inflammation is a known complication of Covid-19 infection’.

Mazraoui is the second Bayern player to have heart disease subsequent to contracting Covid, following Canada’s Alphonso Davies.

You’d think a smart & wealthy club like Bayern would have access to better medical advice

http://www.espnfc.com/bayern-munich-gerbayern_munich/story/4845910/bayerns-mazraoui-had-covid-19-at-world-cupnow-out-with-swelling-around-heart
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January 9, 2023 8:05am
- ClanMcleod
  
  From the article:
  
  This kind of inflammation is a known complication of COVID-19 infection.
  
  The question should be, is he vaccinated? The answer is almost certainly yes.
  
  We know for a FACT, the vaccine increases your chance of catching covid.
  We know for a FACT the vaccine can cause myocarditis and pericarditis. (Along with a host of other issues.)
  
  That article is some next level gaslighting.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:38am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    My 20 year old son returned to work this morning. His whole peer group is again catching Covid-19 so many of them cannot.
    
    An anecdotal observation of a 15 person tight knit 18-20 year old peer group; it looks like every “vaccinated” and boosted one of them is catching it while the none and one shot’s are unaffected.
    
    Of course, they are all happy go lucky young adults, so none of them are reporting this data.
    
    24 5
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    January 9, 2023 9:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Did he have the vaccine forced upon him?
  There would be the problem. Someone uninformed playing by the rules.
  
  13 3
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  January 9, 2023 9:18am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Almost certainly a requirement of his club/ national association, for travel reasons if no other.
    
    15 1
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    January 9, 2023 9:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Travel did not cross my mind, but of course that is correct.
      
      7 2
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      January 9, 2023 10:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  Table football – Pfizer Edition
  
  17 3
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  January 9, 2023 9:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I just put that on Facebook, just for the fact checkers.
    
    10 3
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    January 9, 2023 10:45am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Remember … correlation is not causation. But in this instance it is a marine fog horn in a monastery prayer room.
      
      11 3
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      January 9, 2023 11:12am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        And you can’t shut the bloody thing off.
        
        9 2
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        January 9, 2023 11:35am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Another all cause mortality spike: https://youtu.be/qjIxwtvf8Nw
        
        8 1
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        January 9, 2023 1:02pm
- virtualmark
  
  Myocarditis and pericarditis are well recognised complications of Covid, particularly in young men.
  
  The vaccine also can lead to myocarditis – because it’s effectively priming the body via a small managed version or dose of the Covid virus. So myocarditis is a recognised but rare side-effect of the vaccines. But, because the vaccine dose is smaller than an infection dose, the incidence of myocarditis is less.
  
  There have been deaths from the vaccines from myocarditis – and this was known before the vaccines were ordered. But you need to consider the total number of deaths, or more properly effective life years, lost in an unvaccinated population vs a vaccinated one. It’s a “greater good” type decision.
  
  For me, this is why I would have left the vaccine as optional for the under-40s. The over-40s have zero chance of vaccine-related myocarditis and get a lot of medical benefit from being vaccinated. The under-40s have an almost zero, but still not zero, chance of myocarditis but get less medical benefit from the vaccination.
  
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  January 9, 2023 3:53pm
Maggie Pie

miss me?

😀
48 8
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January 9, 2023 8:07am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Yes, where have you been?
  
  26 3
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  January 9, 2023 8:08am
  - backster
    
    Tennis with her mates. Should be some more juicy gossip coming.
    
    18 3
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    January 9, 2023 8:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Coromandel I reckon. Got flooded out.
    Now for the alternative news!
    
    16 2
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    January 9, 2023 9:19am
- Ruahine
  
  You know we did.
  
  23 4
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  January 9, 2023 8:08am
- Inandout
  
  MP, miss your Twitter links but now know you are not a radio jock because they are still on holiday.
  
  14 2
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  January 9, 2023 8:11am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We had search parties out for you….
  
  28 3
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  January 9, 2023 8:12am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Anything happened on Twitter in recent times?
  
  15 1
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  January 9, 2023 8:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Big news is the FBI are going to do a hit job on Musk.//
    
    14 2
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    January 9, 2023 9:21am
- Bridgenag
  
  Yes…………….. MM in all his forms has been cluttering up the place
  
  16 3
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  January 9, 2023 8:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, Mods deleted a comment telling Mike to stop being a jerk. But I used stronger words than that.
    
    14 4
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    January 9, 2023 9:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  No
  
  14 13
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  January 9, 2023 8:19am
- Maggie's partner
  
  Twice, once from quite close range! Have ordered a new, better telescopic sight
  
  20 1
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  January 9, 2023 8:38am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We’ll produce that comment at your Trial.
    
    11 2
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    January 9, 2023 10:40am
  - Don Beckett
    
    😆 😆 😆
    
    7 2
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    January 9, 2023 10:59am
- Ron Jeremy
  
  Yes
  
  12 4
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  January 9, 2023 8:57am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hi Ron – I see where your namesake has just had 30 rape charges against him dropped due to his….. ‘severe dementia’.
    
    12 2
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    January 9, 2023 9:35am
    - Ron Jeremy
      
      Yes think I will change my name any suggestions.
      
      8 2
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      January 9, 2023 9:40am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        It’s a hard one isn’t it?
        One of the girls at tennis is a big fan of…. Scott Nails.
        
        10 2
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        January 9, 2023 10:21am
      - Taieri
        
        Richard Small. Just call me Dick…
        
        9 1
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        January 9, 2023 10:32am
      - Taieri
        
        Richard Small. Just call me Dick…
        ———-
        
        Just as an addendum…I used to know a bloke whose name was Richard Head. And that’s how he used to introduce himself – just call me Dick.
        
        10 1
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        January 9, 2023 10:33am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        I knew a bloke called Richard Sole. On his letterbox it said R. Sole.
        
        6 0
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        January 9, 2023 7:20pm
- pentwig
  
  Of course Maggie. Especially your delicious sense of humor and the goss from tennis.
  Never go away for such an extended period again. Ever.
  
  17 4
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  January 9, 2023 9:43am
- Observer of Life
  
  M Pie: Welcome back! Was wondering g if you’d gone off shore for some “tweaking” (all very unnecessary of course!!). 😃
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:07pm
cas

I was talking to a secondary school teacher over the weekend who is going back to teach at the college after having a year’s leave in absence as he wasn’t vaccinated and couldn’t teach. He was barred fromm some of his sports clubs as well.

He is still not vaxxed. I thought what a waste of a year – for him, the college and the sports clubs for which he is a volunteer.
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January 9, 2023 8:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just send the Invoice to Jaspinda, payable by Feb 20th.
  
  9 3
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  January 9, 2023 11:40am
- MCōs
  
  Similarly a teacher at my neice’s school down in Christchurch wanted her job back.
  She was actually pretty good at her work, but the staff room preferred peace and quiet rather than listening to her constant rabbiting on about the evils of vaccines and mandates.
  So she dipped out.
  
  8 3
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  January 9, 2023 12:16pm
- yobi
  
  It is my understanding that a lot of unjabbed teachers have signed NDAs and are back at work.
  
  4 2
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  January 9, 2023 1:34pm
Biscuit

Anyone know what happened to that ‘Maggie Pie’ person?

Not my face, MP, not my pretty face.

Hope the break was safe, peaceful and presents-laden!
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January 9, 2023 8:09am
Bridgenag

“Iran vs Iraq
They share a border and a long history of conflict, one letter difference in the name but substantially different COVID vax rates (Iran 77%, Iraq 28%). Who has relatively less COVID deaths?”

https://open.substack.com/pub/metatron/p/iran-vs-iraq?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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January 9, 2023 8:09am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Correlation is not causation.//
  
  That’s another one of those sayings that is becoming laughable. Like “conspiracy theory.”
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:45am
Mike

Napoleon III died 150 years ago today.
10 9
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January 9, 2023 8:10am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Covid?
  
  34 7
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  January 9, 2023 8:41am
- Cassandra
  
  End of an era. Talking of anniversaries, I have a bright idea – I mean a Bright Idea – which is to leave 6 February as ToW commemoration for those who want to, mostly Maori and the Navy, and have a different day to celebrate as New Zealand Day, something for all of us. We could scrub the public holiday part of either 6 February or Matariki or both and have a totally new one, date be determined but let’s find one in March.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    20 March would suit – commemorate the 1835 adoption of the flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand.
    
    11 4
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    January 9, 2023 11:06am
    - Cassandra
      
      That’ll do
      !
      
      8 0
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      January 9, 2023 5:06pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Could occasionally clash with Easter, but we could drop Good Friday as a holiday.
      
      4 4
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      January 9, 2023 7:10pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  And Katherine Mansfield, 100 years ago. Spooky!
  
  I’m surprised the bluestocking sisterhood hasn’t declared a National Day of Mourning.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:15am
  - Jack5
    
    The sisterhood were chatting about Mansfield on Red Radio this morning.
    
    6 3
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    January 9, 2023 11:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      What’s the Wellington frequency for this ‘Red Radio” of which you speak?
      
      2 7
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      January 9, 2023 1:14pm
      - Jack5
        
        Hi Milky:
        
        You can find the frequencies easily on the Net.
        
        However, since we have your attention, you might like to comment on this, from early in 2022, on Maori being given separate rights to the NZ radio spectrum.
        
        Here is “Digital Economy and Communications” Minister David Clark on the agreement, signed in Parliament last 2 February, and which Red Radio reported as “recognising” Maori interests in the radio spectrum.
        
        ” “Supported by funding and long-term access to spectrum, the Maori Spectrum entity will work with the government on spectrum policy decisions whilst advocating for Maori interests in radio spectrum. This includes digital enterprise and jobs, healthcare, rural economy and connectivity, education, broadcasting, and revitalisation of te reo Maori.”
        
        Given that Maori were using stone tools when Westerners settled, had no written language, and had no possible concept of a radio spectrum, this signing over of rights to radio frequencies must be the biggest ever indigenous heist.
        
        Red Radio on its web site headlined this agreement as the “start of a new era”.
        
        Perhaps, Milky, as a man with his Left ear close to the ground in capital city Wellington, you have an idea of how this agreement will launch a new era.
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:23pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Googling ‘Red Radio’ only provided images of vividly colored portable radios.
        
        2 6
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        January 9, 2023 7:06pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        AM 567. But, you know that.
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:21pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, re your wireless problem (7.06 post) …
        
        Just ask a nurse to help you with your radio.
        
        When you’ve got more time go to Youtube, and work through some videos about radio, starting with one on Marconi. 🙃
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:55pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Similar to the frequency of an annoying mosquito.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:21pm
  - Diogenes
    
    The Spectator (English edition) had a major article on Katherine Mansfield last week.
    
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    January 9, 2023 11:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

Imagine… having to import CO2 to NZ

Customers were importing additional CO2 to meet demand,

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482098/safety-problems-shut-todd-energy-kapuni-plant-for-past-fortnight
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January 9, 2023 8:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Jacinda kills beer production
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:27am
  - Scooter
    
    And eggs, is there anything that this Govt doesn’t Fup
    
    26 1
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    January 9, 2023 9:25am
    - kowtow
      
      Actually that was passed under the Great John Key.
      
      Thanks for nothing.
      
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      January 9, 2023 9:56am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes, John Key, despite his charismatic appeal, was definitely labour lite.
        
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        January 9, 2023 11:03am
      - Ehlana
        
        If it was passed under the last National government, why are we seeing shortages now? Surely they should have been then, and well sorted by this time?
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:21pm
      - Ghost
        
        The problem is more the supermarkets that a few years ago announced they would only sell free range. Farms were well prepared for the shift over that the key government brought in, but not for what the supermarkets demanded a few years ago.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:33pm
      - Swifty
        
        Ehlana, producers were given a big lead time to get prepared for changes which only came into effect 1 July 2022 is my understanding:
        
        https://www.mpi.govt.nz/food-business/poultry-egg-processing-requirements/egg-production-processing/egg-production-processing-food-safety-requirements/
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:37pm
      - Swifty
        
        I can’t agree kowtow, the bird conditions in NZ cage operators have been appalling.
        
        It made us all look like beasts that we couldn’t and wouldn’t look after these animals a little better.
        
        I’m a great fan of meat, dairy, eggs and other animal products but I’m not prepared to enable great animal suffering in order to obtain them.
        
        Come on, fair’s fair.
        
        Just as an aside I picked up a couple of trays of jumbos from a free range producer just out of Levin recently. The chooks are all roaming around in paddocks with a house to go into at night or when weather conditions demand it.
        
        Bloody awesome, birds strutting round right there in front of you and looked healthy, strong, vital, and had all their feathers etc. The eggs are some of the best I’ve ever had. Just marvellous and $13 for a 20 egg tray.
        
        You feel good when you buy them.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:49pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Swifty: I don’t disagree with your position in free range if you can afford them BUT something to think about is this scenario from the year 2029:
        
        Bill “lovely bit of grass fed NZ eye fillet on the menu tonight Klaus”
        
        Klaus “yum, yes a bargain at $500 a kilo and makes you feel good when you buy it knowing you are saving the planet”
        
        Bill “do you know my cricket and cockroach beef steaks are now the best seller in the USA? Great for my share price and makes me feel good seeing all the plebs doing their bit to save the planet. Munch, munch, slurp”
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:15pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The supermarkets have buggered up the eggs. They have decided to not accept colony cage eggs after 2027, that is to go FURTHER than the regulations require.
      
      Expect eggs to come back on the shelves with an equilibrium price 30 percent above 2022 prices.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:35am
    - Taieri
      
      Plenty of eggs at our local Pak’n’Slave this morning. But quite expensive and limited to one carton per customer.
      
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      January 9, 2023 10:35am
      - Opie
        
        I’m finding the quality of eggs to be very bad at the moment as well. Small pale yolks and flavorless.
        
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        January 9, 2023 11:12am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Sounds a lot like how ex residents of the USSR described the daily situation in shops and supermarkets there.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:25pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You name it, Govt has fucked it. All part of turning into a socialist country with a Tyrant. Then there is this co-governance shit. She give Maori whatever they want believing that they will help keep her in power, delusional.
      What it is all turning in to is Elite Maori Governance. Democracy will be gone, and NZ ruled by Elite Tyrants.
      For those who don’t understand, this is a Coup. Stop it!
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:57am
- Random T Person
  
  The ultimate LOL. Turns out the stuff really rather is necessary for life, both civilized and un.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    Funny how important , essential even , this evil planet killing gas is .
    So bad the gurners want to ban it .
    They need to take a deep breath and think about what they really , really want.
    
    18 2
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    January 9, 2023 8:57am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Take a deep breath, sure, but no exhaling because that produces CO2, which is bad, right?
      
      11 3
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      January 9, 2023 9:17am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Along with diesel, petrol, aviation fuel and bitumin. Refining oil also produces kerosene, LPG and fuel oil as by products. Are we now importing those as well?
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:44am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, we are importing everything. Over the weekend I chatted with a friends in the NZ ‘Oil’ industry. I learned that:
    
    1. Australia once has 13 refineries. They closed 10, and are now trying to reopen several of the closed ones.
    
    2. The bitumen we produced at Marsden Point was high specification, and perfectly sited to NZ conditions. We now import this, and because of our low volumes we must take whatever is available. Our specification is ignored.
    
    3. Some of the pipes at Marsen Point were filled with concrete, making a reversal of the close virtually impossible.
    
    No idea of the veracity of all this. It’s hearsay, but I was interested as I know little about this industry (other than my Oil and Gas shares doing well!)
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If the Marsden Point refinery was a vital strategic asset, you might agree that either:
      1. the government should not have given it away in the 1980s or
      2. the present government should have bought it back and kept it operating.
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:17am
      - Jack5
        
        A group seems to be campaigning for putting a refinery back up at Marsden Point.
        
        Perhaps Winston Peters can placate them with a promise.
        
        Their web site:
        
        https://www.securemarsdenrefinery.nz/our-mission
        
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        January 9, 2023 11:31am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Was it NZ First that also wanted to move the naval base to Whangarei?
        
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        January 9, 2023 1:16pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggy… Lets close Marsden Point. No need for fuel or CO2 security. In fact lets not mothball it, but make it inoperable ever again.
  Because we/woods for brains are stupid.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:07am
  - virtualmark
    
    Please tell us how Marsden Point gave us fuel security, given that (a) all the crude oil that fed it was imported and (b) it only really supplied Auckland and Northland.
    
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    January 9, 2023 4:01pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Virtual mark, NZ is a small country a long way from the raw material so you are right that Marsden didnt provide complete security. But it did make for a simpler supply chain shipping in one item – crude – in bulk and then splitting that into multiple fractions in NZ. Now we must have a supply chain for each fraction required. The possibility of disruption to the crude supply chain is mitigated by the number and regularity of shipments. If there is a problem with a shipment it is probably not difficult to expedite the next shipment. Multiple products will ship less frequently and so will be more prone to issues. The gap between the shipments will be longer so expediting as a mitigation strategy isn’t as effective.
      
      Plus some products are not so easy to ship ie very viscous bituminous products and low density gases.
      
      The other factor in play here is the investment security. Investors need to know that if the invest into assets that there will be a secure environment to pay them back for their investment. The non-democratic Captains call by Jacinda on the oil and gas industry meant NZ is no longer a safe option for investment in something like a refinery.
      
      So the blame for this mess squarely sits with our dear leader.
      
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      January 9, 2023 7:34pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Maggy – raises more questions about allowing the shut down of Marsden Point.
  
  Briefing notes show Cabinet ministers were warned the loss of CO2 gas supplies from Marsden Point would put pressure on liquid CO2 supplies, in a paper titled ‘Fuel supply resilience without a domestic oil refinery’ in November 2021.
  
  The document said: “While there are other potential CO2 sources, including imports, closure of the refinery will challenge the CO2 supply chain – particularly [with] a short lead time to make necessary investments or relocate plant.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:24am
  - virtualmark
    
    Note that the Government didn’t own Marsden Point.
    
    The decision to close it was made by private sector owners, who presumably are rational capitalists.
    
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    January 9, 2023 4:04pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Yes the decision to close was made by private sector owners who rationally decided not to invest in a country where the leader doesn’t follow the rules of democracy and announces the closure of oil and gas exploration without any consultation or time to pivot. So deflect as much as you like but the accountability here sits with Jacinda Ardern and her government.
      
      Once the Government became aware of the closure of the refinery what other options have they considered and implemented to ensure stable supply of petroleum and CO2 products to NZ? Based on Kiwibuild, child poverty reduction, additional mental health capacity we are in the crap.
      
      Just wait and see the outcry when this results in a genuine shortage situation.
      
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      January 9, 2023 7:42pm
      - virtualmark
        
        The oil & gas exploration decision was dumb – pure performative politics with no pragmatic justification beyond “Look at me, look at me!”
        
        But I think blaming the CO2 shortages on Marsden Pt is lazy. Firstly the high grade CO2 comes from Kapuni (which is a CO2-rich field and so Todd’s need to strip out the CO2 to normalise the gas). Kapuni is in a shutdown at the moment, which is more likely the reason for the current shortage. Secondly, we could also get CO2 via atmospheric capture if necessary. I don’t know that there’s much capacity for that in NZ at the moment, but there was plenty of notice Marsden was shutting.
        
        Basically right now you have a market doing what markets do best – send price signals to highlight a shortage and create incentives for new supply to enter that market.
        
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        January 9, 2023 10:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  MW, as usual this whole thing was not thought through. Why? Because this Labour Govt just can’t think for themselves. They are a thick as pigshit.
  They start with an idea, launch it, and claim it as their idea.
  Now we have no CO2, no bitumen. Taxpayer paid for it, sold it. Marsden should have been bought back. Megan Woods float the idea of a loan, but Cabinet crashed it. Green influence. 35 million tons of crude processed every year, now we buy it.
  A load of aviation fuel came to NZ but it was contaminated. Sent away. That fuel could have been run through Marsden for diesel, kero, and maybe petrol.
  As usual, Labour stuffed it up by not thinking of all the by products which all now a imported.
  Rant over. F!
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:17pm
- David Lenny
  
  On a vaguely related note, it was wonderful to learn at
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/130905413/nz-students-ask-for-oil-company-execs-to-be-declared-criminals
  
  that a group of NZ law students want the World Court to declare BP executives criminals because of BP’s contributions to the genocidal climate crisis.
  
  We will all benefit when the students explain how Sri Lanka boosted food production without fossil fuel derived fertilisers and how the clothes they wear, the telecommunications, transport and cooking methods they use are entirely independent of fossil fuels.
  
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  January 9, 2023 7:41pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Juvenile idiots using lawfare is how we got to the current clown world we are in.
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:29pm
Maggie Pie

Haven’t been sooo spoilt or pampered in the last three years! We spent 10 wonderful days in an ‘over-the-water bungalow-with-mountain-views’ being waited on hand & foot. The food. The wine. The shopping. And OMG….you should see the color of me 😎

Remember once upon a time when you came back from an overseas holiday and people would say…. “how wonderful it was” to be back in NZ?
Not any more! All it does now is make you realise what a violent, racially divided, run down, third world free-range-asylum we’ve become in the last 5 years.
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January 9, 2023 8:33am
- stewmar
  
  Oh please tell where you went I’ll book immediately
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:35am
  - Cassandra
    
    Me too. Can’t be Australia, too violent and racially (NSW v Queensland) divided. And wait for The Voice!
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:48am
    - oldfella
      
      Cassanda: Yes, the Voice referendum will be a shambles and get voted down by a huge majority.
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-08/indigneous-voice-referendum-opposition-peter-dutton/101835590
      Albo is doing a Cindy – refusing to explain what this Okker co-governance thing will really mean.
      Also, Wiley Jackson is advising the pro-voice faction which explains a lot. //
      
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      January 9, 2023 11:47am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, overseas travel opens your mind, much like a brain surgeon would. But seriously, now the plague has been put to bed my wife and I will again be off overseas.
  
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  January 9, 2023 8:43am
- RalphT
  
  So Maggie are you saying that you are now a person of Color?
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:03am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!! Wouldn’t go that far Ralphie….
    although did get a few ‘sideways-looks’ in the Remmers Mall.
    
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    January 9, 2023 9:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So who is responsible for what has happened in the last 5 years?
  Nobody seems to have noticed. The frog in the water thing.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:20pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Nice summation Maggie Pie. I had similar feelings returning from a wee jaunt recently. Sad.
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:26pm
kevn

@Maggie… Sounds like BoraBora and welcome back.
milkeymike is also back ready to engage again.
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January 9, 2023 8:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He was dam annoying yesterday. Childish really.
  
  7 4
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  January 9, 2023 12:21pm
  - Its only I
    
    Don’t ever show emotion to someone trolling comment sections. It extends their breeding season.
    
    Seriously though, don’t take anything too serious with the mikes.
    
    6 4
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    January 9, 2023 2:39pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      5 I reckon. VPNs.
      
      4 4
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      January 9, 2023 3:35pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      The only New Year Resolution I have is to resist the urge to give the MMMMM’s any oxygen up or down tick. If we ignore it ……………….
      
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      January 9, 2023 4:16pm
Maggie Pie

And just a wee reminder while i think about it…..
Prince Harry’s ITV interview to screen @7:30 tonite on TV1.
The entire thing – about 90 mins! Not to be missed 😀

https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1611388434114912259
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January 9, 2023 9:02am
- stewmar
  
  Prince Harry’s ITV interview to screen @7:30 tonite on TV1.
  
  Are you sure that it’s not on the Disney channel?
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:09am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Maggie,
  Thanks for giving me another reason not to watch Government TV.
  
  18 1
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  January 9, 2023 9:28am
- Rusty
  
  @ Maggie.
  
  It never ceases to amaze me with TVNZ and their hypocrite double standards towards the royal family and British culture.
  
  They will broadcast the Queens funeral live and then have other programmes trashing them like Dumbo Harry’s interview.
  
  On top of it all 80-90% of TVNZ’s content is British – soap operas, reality programmes and game shows.
  
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  January 9, 2023 10:37am
  - Jack5
    
    The tabloid media (which includes TVNZ) have always been fickle.
    
    A light view worth repeating, and repeating – an epigram by Humbert Wolfe:
    
    You cannot hope to bribe or twist
    (thank God!) the British journalist.
    But, seeing what the man will do
    unbribed, there’s no occasion to.
    
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    January 9, 2023 8:57pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… It’s all over the newspapers so no need to watch/be punished with more whinging from harkle.
  
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  January 9, 2023 10:47am
- Harry Knuts
  
  And Hazza’s wonders why his bro and daddy are sick to death of his whinging.. LOL
  
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  January 9, 2023 11:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  I would gnaw my own arm off before subjecting myself to this.
  
  19 2
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  January 9, 2023 11:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I’m not even going to tell my family it is on.
    
    9 2
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    January 9, 2023 12:27pm
- Ehlana
  
  I will let the “journalists” work off their sins by watching and reporting on it.
  
  There was an hour or so with Oprah, six hours on Netflix, I think there are several interviews around the book release (and another book to come from Meghan) – soon there will be more hours of it than they spent doing royal duties.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:25pm
Bridgenag

Won’t be watching G & W thanks
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January 9, 2023 9:19am
Maggie Pie

OK….first to admit I’ve dated a few cool-dudes in my time 😛
But none of them were so cool as to have had a frost-bitten penis.

Just saying.
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January 9, 2023 9:26am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Mine knows when to go and hide. Must be a ginger thing.
  
  10 1
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  January 9, 2023 10:57am
  - blue collar
    
    The whinging Ginge probably manscaped aswell … should’ve bought a merkin ! 😁
    
    7 2
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    January 9, 2023 11:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Happens in Alaska. If you are going to pee outside, do it real quick. The urine freezes.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:29pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Some of you guys are worth bottlin’
    
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    January 9, 2023 4:18pm
Surely Knott

Medsafe defines a “rare” adverse event as 1 in 1,000 to 1 in 10,000. “Very rare” is 10,000 plus.

I don’t think that’s what most people think of when they think of rare.

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/Safety-of-Medicines/Medicine-safety.asp#:~:text=rare%20%E2%80%93%20means%20that%20between%201,10%2C000%20people%20may%20be%20affected.
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January 9, 2023 9:42am
Scooter

Thailand? Is it true they say you go thru door sideways you Bangkok.
9 2
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January 9, 2023 9:46am
- krazykiwi
  
  This should help 🙂
  
  11 3
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  January 9, 2023 10:08am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

From my FB 8 years ago.
What would happen if Westerners tried this on?
A. Go to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense. Demand a free house, benefits and food.
B. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.
C. Demand that all nurses and doctors be fluent in English, and that all food be cooked according to your specifications in the hospital.
D. Demand free local government forms, bulletins, etc. Be printed in English.
E. Procreate abundantly.
F. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive – Behaviour with, ‘It is a cultural thing; you wouldn’t understand.’
G. Keep your original identity strong. Fly your home country’s national flag from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window, or on your car bumper.
H. Speak only English at home and in public, and make sure that your children do likewise.
I. Demand classes on English culture in the Muslim school system.
J. Demand a local country driving license or national insurance number equivalent
K. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimise your unauthorised, illegal, presence in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Ir aq
L. Drive around with no car tax or insurance and ignore local traffic laws.
M. Insist that the Police teach English to all its officers.
N. Organise protest marches against your host country, inciting violence against non-white, non-Christians, and the government that let you in.
Good luck! You’ll soon be dead..
It would never happen in Pakistan , Afghanistan Iraq or Iran (or any other country in the world for that matter) except in the:
UK , US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.
Because we are run by soft, politically correct politicians who are too scared to ‘offend’ anyone.
If you agree, pass it on.
If you don’t, go ahead and try the above in Pakistan , Afghanistan or Iraq …
At what point do we stop eroding our own freedom to pander to people who are “offended”?
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January 9, 2023 10:57am
- Prince
  
  Don’t want to be woke or anything, but reading that list could be a history of English colonisation here in the 19th Century.
  Just saying.
  
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  January 9, 2023 11:21am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    The major difference is that when colonists got here, they did not arrive to find a stable society that sheltered them with all the primary human needs.
    
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    January 9, 2023 12:41pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Which ‘primary human needs’ were not met in tribal societies?
      
      3 13
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      January 9, 2023 1:59pm
      - mogg
        
        Depends on whether you were the eater or the eaten.
        
        15 2
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        January 9, 2023 2:10pm
      - snowy
        
        Freedom from slavery
        
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        January 9, 2023 2:24pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Don’t feed the troll guys – even though I have.
        Future comments from the up to 5 Mikes will be ignored.
        
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        January 9, 2023 3:39pm
    - Deane Jessep
      
      Almost of the ones that raised average life expectancy and quality of life to where it is now.
      
      Sorry Steve, couldn’t help but feed.
      
      Though, I’m not sure Mike is trolling. He may actually be one of those radical lefties who wants to see the average age and world population pushed down through great amounts of suffering.
      
      If so, it’s a viewpoint he’s entitled to, and it doesn’t really worry me, I’ll keep doing what I can to stop it. Failing that, I’m more than capable of creating and defending everything my family needs to be AOK, 99% of the other lot however will quickly find they become mulch for the real doers in society if they get their dream regression. 😂
      
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      January 9, 2023 5:08pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It was a serious question, Deane. It seems to me that there are essential similarities between all human societies, no matter what classification of development, technology, civilization etc. is applied.
        
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        January 9, 2023 6:52pm
The Redbaiter

Every time, its Mr Mapp who turns up to defend the status quo. Using pejorative terms like “hard right” and never offering the slightest justification for this smear.

NZers who object to the Progressive policies of Jacinda Ardern, the Labour Party and today’s infiltrated National party are not hard right. They’re down to earth productive hard working NZers who, over the last fifty years or so, have been entirely sidelined while the progressive separatist monolith most identified by a fast expanding layer of too powerful bureaucracy has taken control of their country.

They expected National to resist this power grab, only to watch in disbelief and disappointment as time and time again, the Nats enabled it.

Because people like you Mr Mapp, more suited to Labour, have mysteriously joined a party who’s founding principles supporting individual liberty and resisting communism and socialism you would appear to regard as just silly nonsense.

This country is governed by a junta of the Labour party, the fake mainstream media and a likewise infiltrated academic class. National, whose founding principles should compel them to resist this force, have instead supplicated themselves to it, and enabled it.

How can you tell if NZers would support an argument when you do not have the means to articulate it? The public are drenched with progressive views by Labour and media/academia, and never hear anything from National in the way of resistance.

Mr. Luxon’s pathetic attempts to ingratiate himself with the corrupt partisan media prove he doesn’t have the political acumen to oppose them. He needs to understand they’ll always hate him, just as they hate traditional NZ, and want to change it into a utopian separatist progressive paradise called by the entirely fake name Aotearoa.

Ron DeSantis with a 20% winning margin in Florida proved that if you articulate arguments against progressivism the public will vote for you. So did Glenn Youngkin in Virginia, and locally, so did Wayne Brown in winning Auckland mayoralty with a massive margin.

Stop pretending to be a member of the National Party Mr Mapp. You never really were, and you never will be. Your political home is with the Labour Party.
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January 9, 2023 11:13am
- Swifty
  
  Reddy raises a few good points Wayne.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:28pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    “National, whose founding principles should compel them to resist this force, have instead supplicated themselves to it, and enabled it.”
    
    You may recall that John Key announced several years ago that the founding principles of the National party are no longer relevant. So that is when National lost my full support – but I will give them my electoate vote only.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:06pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The founding principles of the national party began to be ignored with effect from 1949.
      
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      January 9, 2023 2:00pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Every time, its Mr Mapp who turns up to defend the status quo.”
  
  This really resonates. New Zealanders will accept radical change if it can be demonstrated that it is essential for the future of the nation. Resource management and education are striking examples. In the schooling system, both Labour and National have presided over an accelerating decline for 30 years. Hekia Parata was a terrible Minister of Education, every bit as bad as the current Minister. Does National have any ideas about how to reverse the decline of the schooling system? I have not heard any.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:54pm
  - Swifty
    
    Benedict, if Wayne has the time I would humbly ask him, in this an election year, to answer one simple question:
    
    What is the point of National?
    
    I’m sure many of us would be very interested in his reply.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:16pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      To administer socialist polices more efficient than the Labour Party. Unlike Labour to not adopt the extremes of centralisation. No worries about the Green Communists getting charge of some portfolios. A somewhat more rational transport programme. Less mad public service expansion.
      
      That is National IMO
      
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      January 9, 2023 1:53pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Even Chris Trotter noted National (and ACT’s) real problem:
    
    Sherlock Holmes’ famous observation concerning the dog that did not bark, might be applied with equal justification to the Opposition that did not bite.
    
    Tired though National’s and Act’s MPs may have been, and eager to get home to their beds, Ms Sage’s SOP should have had the same effect upon them as a bucket of cold water. Members of the Opposition parties should have risen instantly to their feet, baying like bloodhounds for the Speaker to rule upon the constitutional propriety of the Green MP’s SOP. Expressions of anger and disgust should have been ringing off the Chamber’s walls like the echoes of heavy artillery.
    
    “Entrenchment” showed National’s strategy for winning in 2023, which you can view here, although it would be more accurate to say that it’s the voters who are in Homer’s position.
    
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    January 9, 2023 3:17pm
- Philview
  
  Wayne has always been open that he sought selection first as a Labour MP. I do wonder if many MPs are attracted to the job of MP and not so interested in the ideology of the party.
  
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  January 9, 2023 1:40pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  I’ll put these up again so you can all see Mr Mapp in action on numerous topics, Mapping the National Party:
  
  You are right. There were (and are) a substantial number of National MP’s who would have similar views to myself. – Wayne Mapp
  
  See also:
  The Precious Midpoint
  
  That approach just won’t cut it anymore with Centre-Right parties. Real, practical solutions based around giving incentives to individuals – in education, healthcare and other areas – are what is required. Certainly not something that “‘we’, the clever ones, are going to impose upon ‘them’, the Lower Orders“, from the hearts of wealthy suburbs sporting myriad electric cars.
  
  The midpoint is there to be moved, not just accommodated while others move it.
  
  Advice from the Peanut Gallery
  
  The result of this style of accommodationist politics, as my colleague Keith Joseph complained, was that post-war politics became a ‘socialist ratchet’ — Labour moved Britain towards more statism; the Tories stood pat; and the next Labour Government moved the country a little further left. The Tories loosened the corset of socialism; they never removed it.
  
  See also the quotes from 1980 GOP politicians about the “extremist” Ronald Reagan who would cost them the election if nominated.
  
  This Sounds Familiar
  
  When it matters, Republicans look around and say, “Oh no we can’t do that, we’d lose a man. The Democrats would take seats.” They are virtually a majority for the sake of being a majority. They just want to polish it up, put it on the shelf, and look at it.
  …
  To put it simply, Republicans approach politics like America fights wars: They don’t want to lose a single man. Democrats, on the other hand? They look at politics like the Russians looked at Stalingrad: The congressman in front votes now; when they fall the next man gets elected and he will vote too.
  …
  Incidentally – for those National people who only care about government spending as a % of GDP and taxes – that will also put paid to any future tax cuts. Actually that’s almost the case now: the giant spend-fest of lockdowns means you can probably look forward to new taxes and tax increases from a future National-ACT government. They’ll have no choice because they’ll have allowed Labour-Green to make the big choices for them.
  
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  January 9, 2023 3:01pm
  - Swifty
    
    Well said Tom.
    
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    January 9, 2023 4:45pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Don’t know why those links failed when the others are good, but they’re on the right side of the No Minister blog under Reference:
    
    The Precious Midpoint
    
    Advice from the Peanut Gallery
    
    This Sounds Familiar
    
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    January 9, 2023 7:11pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Redbaiter – I agree with many of your points.
  
  Wayne Brown winning Auckland wasn’t really about the points he rationally discussed. It was more about “anyone but labour”! This allows the opposition parties to coast along.
  
  To me the two biggest issues we have causing the ongoing slide left are:
  
  1. A biased media that is clearly censoring the voice on the right and overly promoting a leftist message.
  2. Left leaning employment conditions in all public service employment contracts. If you want employment in the public service you have to sign a contract stating you believe in the principal of partnership under Te Tiriti.
  
  Neither National or ACT come out swinging against these issues.
  
  I keep hearing it’s about keeping ones powder dry or not acting when the enemy is making mistakes – but these show an inability to be able to fight against the system. Which is the skill we really want to see them demonstrate before voting for them. Along the lines of show us you are trustworthy with the little things and then we will give you the big ones to take responsibility for.
  
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  January 9, 2023 3:09pm
Michael Rodent

The validity of the assertion that Maori are indigenous to New Zealand (and accordingly the basis for many of their claims) is a matter that has intrigued me.

The generally accepted definition of “indigenous” is a distinct people originating or occurring naturally in a particular place or a people inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times.

Even by Maori’s own oral history they do not meet this criteria and are accordingly not indigenous to New Zealand. They originated from (were indigenous to) “Hawaiki” (the atolls of Eastern Polynesia) and immigrated to what is now called New Zealand around 1250. The dates are “best guess” as time was calculated by generations assessed to be 25 years for each generation.

Over the last few weeks I have read two historical books which have both provided independent Maori oral history that New Zealand was already populated (by non-Maori indigenous people) at the time of (and before) the Maori immigration from “Hawaiki”.

The first book is “Takitimu” by Tiaki Hikawera Mitira (aka John Hikawera Mitchell). This book was published in 1944 and is essentially the history of Ngati Kahungunu. The author is acknowledged as a Maori interpreter and an authority on iwi history and whakapapa.

The other book is “Yesterdays in Maoriland” by Andreas Reischek and is essentially his diaries of the 12 years he spent in New Zealand in the 1880s. He lived and interacted with Maori and was made a chief (presentation of the huia feather) on three occasions. He spent a considerable time living with Maori in the King Country.

Both books record Maori oral history that New Zealand was already populated by civilised peoples when the Maori immigration from “Hawaiki” occurred c1250.

In “Takitimu” it states that Kupe took two canoes south-west in c 925 in a search for new land. They found New Zealand and briefly stayed and obtained provisions for the return passage via Rorotonga. Evidently what they found was unimpressive as no further attempt was made to passage to New Zealand for a further 200 years when an “expedition” was made by Toi-te-huatahi in 1125. What Tiaki Hikawera Mitira then says is interesting “ … however, it is certain that with the arrival led by Toi-te-huatahi, about 1125 AD, the land was well colonised by some previously unknown and by all accounts inferior, type of people … the origin of the now extinct people known as the Maoriori whose antecedents go back into the “limbo” of forgotten things …”.

In “Yesterdays in Maoriland”, it states (from evidence told to Reischek by various Maori chiefs – including Tawhiao and Wahanui) that “… tradition has it that their forefathers originally came to New Zealand from Hawaiki in thirteen double canoes. They landed at different spots in the North Island and found them inhabited by dark coloured men with curly black hair and small of stature. These original inhabitants – they called them Ngatimaimai – were found to be good husbandmen and hunters, but poor warriors. So Maori conquered them, killed the men and took possession of the women …”.

It is clear from both independent reports from Maori history and recorded in the 1880s and 1940s that other peoples were indigenous to New Zealand and Maori colonised New Zealand and essentially exterminated the indigenous people.

It appears that the Maori claim of being indigenous is not supported by their own oral history and is contrary to the more recent “reinterpretation” of Maori history.

It is generally accepted that “modern” human goes back 160,000 years – if this period is reflected in a 24 hour clock, Maori colonisation of New Zealand (c1250) occurred at 23.54 and European colonisation (c1820) occurred at 23.58 – just a couple of “ticks” apart and hardly either constituting “indigenous”.
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January 9, 2023 11:14am
- The Redbaiter
  
  Mr Rodent- Thank you for a very interesting read.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:00pm
- Rusty
  
  @Michael.
  
  For arguments sake lets say Maoriori were the indigenous people of NZ then this question can be asked of them.
  
  “What lands did the Maoriori come from to immigrate to NZ ?”
  
  In fact a wider question can be asked “What country or continent did the human race first come from to populate this earth?”
  
  Only 2 options for this question.
  
  Evolution says the human race came from sludge out of the ocean somewhere and sometime.
  
  Creation says God created the first 2 human beings Adam and Eve and the human race is the offspring of them.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:23pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Obviously, Eve didn’t know what a headache was in those days eh?
    
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    January 9, 2023 12:40pm
  - Swifty
    
    No, there are not two ‘options’.
    
    There is an explanation supported by science, facts and reason and then there are falsities, deliberate or inadvertent, and myths and legends.
    
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    January 9, 2023 1:53pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The religious folk do like to make absurd claims about things that really should not bother them if they actually believed in their owned creeds.
      
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      January 9, 2023 2:02pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Thanks for this. The ‘indigenous’ label is simply stick to beat the apparently brutal white colonists in keeping with most progressive (aka regressive) discourse about ethnicity.
  
  A guiding truth of human history is that the technically advanced and the strong have always conquered the weak. While this is as uncomfortable as watching a gazelle get chased down eaten by a lion, it is a similar basis on which humans have evolved from strength to strength. When Toi-te-huatahi’s colonialist henchmen eradicated Ngatimaimai they were doing what millions of years of evolution had taught them.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:56pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sounds like you might be fearful that your own people will be overcome by a strong, more technically advanced people>
    
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    January 9, 2023 2:04pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Sounds like don’t know anything.
      
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      January 9, 2023 2:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Michael Rodent
  I think you are answering the wrong question.
  The term ‘indigenous’ has acquired a meaning that is effectively a synonym for ‘aboriginal’. Any comprehensive dictionary would confirm this. Other synonyms include first peoples, first nations, native peoples, or autochthonous peoples.
  Also, we can rely on international agreements for modern context. For example, no explicit definition was required for the UN’s Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples but earlier work produced this comprehensive one:
  
  Indigenous communities, peoples, and nations are those that, having a historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies that developed on their territories, consider themselves distinct from other sectors of the societies now prevailing in those territories, or parts of them. They form at present non-dominant sectors of society and are determined to preserve, develop, and transmit to future generations their ancestral territories, and their ethnic identity, as the basis of their continued existence as peoples, in accordance with their own cultural patterns, social institutions and legal systems.
  
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  January 9, 2023 2:33pm
  - Yabster
    
    Milkdud quoting the UN- yep yep…..
    
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    January 9, 2023 3:25pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Mike – I’d appreciate your expertise with these definitions to understand where the lines are drawn.
    
    For a group to assume indigenous status must they wipe out the original peoples in an area and then base themselves in that area for a certain length of time? How long must that time be?
    
    If they don’t wipe out the prior people completely but coexist, over what timeframe do they become indigenous? Does it depend on how long after the original inhabitants they arrived?
    
    If one Polynesian people arrived in NZ prior to other Polynesian people does that make them the truely Indigenous people of NZ and the rest merely immigrants. Or is there a level of cross-pollination that means they are all treated as 1st peoples even if one group arrived 50, 100, 150 years later? In 500 years time will Polynesians who come to NZ in 2023 be more likely considered to be part of the first people’s than those with predominantly European ethnicity who arrived in 1860’s?
    
    As you can see I am confused about these definitions but I am sure you will be able to help me get a better understanding.
    
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    January 9, 2023 3:25pm
    - Mike
      
      Maori are indigenous to New Zealand ie the original human inhabitants. I trust this helps.
      
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      January 9, 2023 6:02pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Mike – not helpful at all.
        
        If I asked you what is a Maori? You would probably say “the indigenous people of NZ.”
        
        So your whole position is based on circular definitions.
        
        Some tribes have been in NZ a lot longer than others. So which ones are the indigenous people and which ones just arrived too late and are therefore just colonists?
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:02pm
      - Jack5
        
        Would it be better to say, Milky, that “Maori are indigenous to New Zealand i.e. the ~~original~~ first human inhabitants”?
        
        “Original” has connotations of Maori springing from mythical intercourse of Ranginui (sky) and Papatuanuku (Earth), and thus of Maori being unique.
        
        Human beings evolved within the hominids of Africa. Original humans were African. Everywhere-else has “first” local humans.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:25pm
      - Ghost
        
        And yet even maori have stories of those that were here before them. Guess they don’t get talked about as much today because it would stop the gravy train.
        
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        January 9, 2023 9:44pm
  - Michael Rodent
    
    Pronouncements from the UN are becoming increasingly meaningless – I prefer the more logical definition of “indigenous”.
    
    I do note that a few of your definitions include the word “first”. For Maori to adopt a “first” status by the act of eliminating the prior first makes a bit of a mockery of any indigenous claim.
    
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    January 9, 2023 6:02pm
    - tf78
      
      Maori aren’t indigenous, they’re just earlier arrivers. We all arrived by boat at some point.
      
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      January 9, 2023 6:35pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I tend to prefer the Oxford dictionary.
      
      adjective: indigenous
      1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
      2. (of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
      
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      January 9, 2023 6:40pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Colonial dictionary there, eh Mikey!
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:38pm
      - Jack5
        
        Which Oxford dictionary, Milky? Please be precise.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hi Jacksie
        Google is your friend. search for ‘indigenous definition’ and the first result is provided by Oxford Languages.
        
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        January 10, 2023 7:29am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Who cares what some of your ancestors were and did? I only care about what is in your head and your heart today.
    
    For example if you think it is your right to turn up to your whanau’s house unannounced and take it over along with its contents for as long as you please, that’s not because you are indigenous. It’s because you are a lazy, selfish, entitled prat.
    
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    January 9, 2023 7:09pm
- Observer of Life
  
  FWIW: Maori say when they die their spirit flies north, off Cape Reinga and heads back “home” to Hawaiiki. Nothing says we came from another location than that?!
  
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  January 9, 2023 9:42pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    So can the downticker please tell me what part of that “traditional tale” I’ve got wrong. Because that’s what maori have told us in the past.. or is that an inconvenience now?
    
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    January 9, 2023 10:25pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The first people who settled New Zealand and became Maori arrived from the Cook Is/Tahiti area in the 14th century, possibly a little earlier. In their traditions and myths, they referred to their place of origin as Hawaiki.
      This is hardly relevant to any invented ‘debate’ about indigeneity, any more than purported belief in the descent of all people from Adam and Eve in the Jewish fables. The term indigenous is synonymous with aboriginal – no one seriously doubts that Maori are the same people who first discovered and settled New Zealand.
      
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      January 10, 2023 7:23am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Ah ok. So we must believe in taniwha that need to be fed $$$ for motorways etc to go ahead, but that Hawaiiki story, bugger that. That’s just religious mumbo-jumbo, got it Mikey.
        
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        January 10, 2023 9:06am
ClanMcleod

This might have been discussed before, if so apologies, I just came across it today. It was sent to all NZ Ministers on the 5th December.

Evidentiary Document sent to the New
Zealand Government (summary)
Requests for Investigations & Public
Notification of Irreversible Harm

Requests made to the New Zealand Government

The New Zealand government was requested to investigate the:
1) New Zealand and overseas evidence for negative vaccine effectiveness (neg.VE), vaccine failure, and toxic vaccine lots,
2) Statistical biases evident in the Ministry of Health and other healthcare agencies’ calculable unvaccinated COVID-19 case rates (eliminated harm signals),
3) Role of COVID-19 vaccination in exacerbating comorbidities most frequently associated with serious-severe COVID-19 outcomes,
4) SARS-CoV-2’s gain-of-function origin while internationally championing a punitive global ban on gain-of-function R&D, and
5) Conduct of the WHO during COVID-19 linked to seven critical points
The New Zealand government was requested to:
1) Notify New Zealanders of their recently acquired life-long health risks (ADE, VAED, AI – see below)
2) Urgently amend informed consent guidelines associated with COVID-19 vaccination
3) Prioritize clinical research into COVID-19 antibody-dependent enhancement of virus infection (ADE), vaccine-associated enhanced disease (VAED), and
antigenic imprinting (AI) in the New Zealand population.

It looks like a substantial, evidence based document. 95 pages. I obviously haven’t managed to read it yet, but from the questions asked above it looks very interesting.

https://grandsolarminimum.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/EvidentiaryDocument_COVID19NationalLevelHarm_01122022.pdf
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January 9, 2023 11:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden’s accomplishments. God that Liz Cheney is a nasty bitch.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/s9ZT_D71hU8
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January 9, 2023 11:18am
Taieri

This is what they spend our taxes on:

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2301/S00013/armed-hold-ups-will-return-as-government-releases-map-of-cigarette-outlets.htm

The stupidity of these parasites is simply unbelievable…
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January 9, 2023 11:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Once again, no forward thinking, because they just can’t do that.
  Dr Verrall is not answering – hello?
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:39pm
ClanMcleod

Page 3 and already it’s looking well researched and with accurate and truthful information.

This:

The bottom line: Nations that achieved high rates of COVID-19 vaccination experienced significantly higher COVID-19 infection and death rates than nations achieving lower vaccination rates.
Analysis of Our World in Data (OWID) demonstrated that high rates of COVID-19 vaccination were associated with significantly higher weighted mean infection rates per million (4.0x), death rates per million (3.2x), and
62 vaccination rates per 100 population (4.6x) compared with low vaccination rate nations.

The observed proportion of COVID-19 infections and associated deaths was larger in high vaccination rate nations and smaller than expected in low vaccination rate nations. These group differences were highly significant.

That dovetails this video comparing Iraq and Iran covid rates and deaths v covid vaccinations which was posted earlier by Bridgenag.

https://metatron.substack.com/p/iran-vs-iraq?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

The mammoth in the room just keeps getting bigger.
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January 9, 2023 11:48am
Maggie Pie

My partner just learned about this and believes we should all be very concerned…..

“Known as the Whakatupato Programme, the New Zealand Police have set up a separate training establishment for the arming of Maori” 🙁

https://firearmssafetyauthority.govt.nz/firearms-safety
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January 9, 2023 11:53am
- Deane Jessep
  
  I had not heard about that. A quick google and it appears to have come out of an enterprising company called Firearms Safety Specialist’s run by a guy called Chris Kumeroa. The programme looks like it goes back to 2015.
  http://aotearoahuntnation.co.nz/?page_id=546
  
  Can’t tell much about him but he’s got an impressive CV.
  https://nz.linkedin.com/in/chris-kumeroa-b193384
  
  Here is an interview with him to make your own mind up:
  https://www.teaomaori.news/army-veteran-improving-security-outcomes-maori
  
  “One of the youngest soldiers to win selection to the NZ SAS”.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:16pm
- rouppe
  
  Interesting.
  
  Whakatūpato is a joint venture between the New Zealand Police and lwi to provide comprehensive firearms training for Māori and other rural persons who are firearms users but who for a number of reasons may not be able to access current firearms and hunter safety training
  
  The link for more information via Police Māori Responsiveness Managers has representives in many distinctly non-rural locations.
  
  It always irritates me that the assumption is that there are no non Maori in these more remote areas, and the “other rural persons” seems to simply be an afterthought to distract from how this certainly appears to be targeted at one race
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Better just ask a gang member to help.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:41pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    WOW That is a biggy …..better keep the guns then
    
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    January 9, 2023 4:25pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Does any one here believe there won’t be any bribes from Labour to steal the 2023 election?
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January 9, 2023 12:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I know of 2
  
  8 4
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  January 9, 2023 12:48pm
  - Nickc2
    
    All bribes cost money and Robbo’s cupboard is bare. Just ask em where the money’s coming from and who’s going to repay it.
    
    9 2
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    January 9, 2023 12:52pm
    - Ehlana
      
      I’m sure the media will be asking that behind the scenes. And in public, if they don’t like the answers.
      
      8 1
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      January 9, 2023 1:32pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      A promised bribe only costs you if you keep it. Once elected many politicians have a bad track record of keeping their promises.
      
      Winston Peters is a good example of over-promising and under-delivering.
      
      7 0
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      January 9, 2023 4:59pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think Muldoon might have been our last PM very keen on keeping promises. He kept a copy of the election manifesto in the cabinet room and consulted it regularly to oppose anything at variance with it.
        
        4 3
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        January 9, 2023 7:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Melinda Gates met Epstein.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rTVMs2fMRDE
6 3
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January 9, 2023 1:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Was it at Mar-a-Lago?
  
  4 17
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  January 9, 2023 2:06pm
Maggie Pie

And thort this worth sharing with the group.
Just received a ‘txt-alert’ from Countdown bakery Greenlane…..

“Hot Cross Buns now available in store”

Heading over there as we speak. Will report back.
10 4
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January 9, 2023 1:23pm
- Ghost
  
  Pack n save have had them for a while now.
  
  8 2
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  January 9, 2023 1:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    We call it ‘Paki N’ Save’ here. Never been personally. People reckon they can’t be bothered lining up behind all the Indian Dairy owners with their overflowing trolleys. Takes forever to get thru the checkouts they reckon. Some girls I know have even had their cars blocked in with trolleys for using the disabled car parks when it’s raining 🙁
    
    8 11
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    January 9, 2023 2:23pm
    - MCōs
      
      You got the back from holiday blues?
      Looking round to see who you can insult; even your mates?
      Well have a hot cross bloody bun as you wait around for the Prince Harry interview so you can put the boot into him too.
      
      2 12
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      January 9, 2023 4:07pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Hiyaa Cossie…you guys manage to get away for a break as well?
        
        9 3
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        January 9, 2023 4:31pm
      - MCōs
        
        Laid low with covid for an extended period
        
        6 0
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        January 9, 2023 5:23pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Sorry to hear that Cossie.
        Lots of ‘A-Listers’ at the Maldives this time of year.
        
        5 3
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        January 9, 2023 5:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

McCarthy as Speaker. They like him on this short speech.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AWdDGcXLvDc
6 3
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January 9, 2023 1:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s Tax. Keeping it real.
It is all above board.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e15zM8S2NU8
6 3
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January 9, 2023 1:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Don’t forget to leave out a bottle of vodka for the insurrection fairy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VpJuJOSigY
8 3
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January 9, 2023 2:03pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Trump Vodka?
  
  3 13
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  January 9, 2023 2:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot. The Speaker vote. Funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m82Q1OgbnY8
5 4
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January 9, 2023 2:07pm
Inandout

S0 we know where Maggie was.
https://youtu.be/UEpd3l0sxPc
7 2
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January 9, 2023 3:14pm
MCōs

A bunch of idiots overran the Brazilian parliament & Supreme Court.
The police got in there, chucked them out and arrested 400 of the fools.
One imagines they won’t be going home to mummy any time soon.
8 5
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January 9, 2023 3:18pm
- Inandout
  
  MC, was the date Jan 6th by any chance?
  
  4 4
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  January 9, 2023 3:50pm
  - MCōs
    
    Look on your computer and deduct a day for time zone difference
    
    5 0
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    January 9, 2023 5:25pm
Maggie Pie

RELEASE-THE-KRAKEN!!

https://twitter.com/radionz/status/1612283131125694464
7 3
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January 9, 2023 4:09pm
- Ghost
  
  I thought you meant you had bad wind
  
  7 2
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  January 9, 2023 4:28pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Actually funny you should say that Ghost.
    
    Something I did learn while we were away….during the Edo Period in Japan (1603-1870) rich women would hire female servants called “heoibikuni” to take the blame for their farts.
    
    Not silly 😀
    
    9 4
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    January 9, 2023 4:38pm
    - Ghost
      
      Isn’t it easier to just be honest and claim the shit smell is drifting over from Mount Albert again
      
      6 2
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      January 9, 2023 5:06pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Don’t you mean…. Mt Roskill?
        
        5 3
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        January 9, 2023 5:34pm
      - Ghost
        
        No, they don’t have that Ardern person there.
        
        6 1
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        January 9, 2023 5:49pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      That’s what dogs are for, Maggie.
      
      6 2
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      January 9, 2023 5:49pm
- Bridgenag
  
  FFS
  
  4 4
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  January 9, 2023 4:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  OMG! It’s here.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/01/covid-19-new-subvariant-kraken-detected-in-new-zealand.html
  
  7 3
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  January 9, 2023 5:27pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  I wonder what name they’ll come up with next!!
  
  6 3
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  January 9, 2023 5:29pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Something Scottish?
    
    3 5
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    January 9, 2023 6:58pm
kevn

@Maggie… m/s pinky to advise us of kraken. Cheers.
7 2
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January 9, 2023 4:29pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Indeed
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482134/concern-over-new-covid-19-strain-dubbed-kraken-but-nz-has-tools-to-deal-with-it-expert
  
  10 3
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  January 9, 2023 4:56pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The stupid moron is still talking about wearing masks. That stupid intervention doesn’t work and has been put to bed so many times now, why is she still trying to push it?
    
    Here’s a link to only 47 studies showing they don’t work against covid. That’s from a year ago. There are at least as many new studies showing clearly, masks do NOTHING to prevent the spread of a virus.
    
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/47-studies-confirm-inefectiveness-of-masks-for-covid-and-32-more-confirm-their-negative-health-effects/
    
    The pink terror is more frightening than any Kraken ffs.
    
    12 4
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    January 9, 2023 6:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

First I’ve heard of these drive-by shootings in the neighbourhood….

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/01/police-arrest-man-over-christmas-eve-drive-by-shooting-in-kaiti-gisborne.html

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482133/man-charged-after-christmas-eve-shooting-in-gisborne
8 3
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January 9, 2023 5:03pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Elon Musk meme.
“Let me get this straight, you are not mad at those who have lied to you for years,
but you’re mad at me for proving that they lied to you?”
I will never understand lefties.
19 3
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January 9, 2023 5:27pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Apparently Musk is going to implement Tweets up to 4000 words. Looks like he is taking aim at FB.
  
  6 3
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  January 9, 2023 7:13pm
Maggie Pie

What about dopey Alison & Sharon calling into 1ZB with their sage advice….. “On how The Royal Family should handle Hazza’s devastating allegations”

LOL!! 😀 😀 😀
8 3
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January 9, 2023 5:53pm
- Ghost
  
  What was their advice? Send him back to do an exclusive Harry meets the taliban Netflix special?
  
  7 2
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  January 9, 2023 5:56pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Ghost – indeed, “I’m a celebrity get me out of here Afghanistan” has a ring to it.
    
    8 2
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    January 9, 2023 6:02pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      One of the perks of being ‘Royal’ is that you get to go on human safaris 😎
      
      7 2
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      January 9, 2023 6:23pm
Chris Nisbet

How often do storms like the one that’s (apparently) going to arrive shortly take the same sort of path as it? This one, according to NIWA models (no sniggering please), is apparently going to take a 90 degree turn once it’s practically passed NZ to come back and give us a lashing, then take another 90 degree turn back to the SE.
I’m not trying to imply that there’s anything untoward about the prediction, just wondering how often storms backtrack like that.
8 3
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January 9, 2023 6:11pm
- rouppe
  
  This could possibly provide some information
  
  https://media.bom.gov.au/social/blog/2364/tropical-cyclones-your-questions-answered
  
  3 0
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  January 9, 2023 8:59pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “NIWA models (no sniggering please)” – why not? 🙂
  This:
  https://www.metservice.com/maps-radar/surface-pressure/southwest-pacific
  makes for interesting reading for the 7:00 pm Mon & 1:00 pm Tue pictures. Moist warm front ( ex Hale ) meets stationary cold air front from high off South Island = RAIN. TV weather jocks gushing “Cyclone” Hale of course ( even though it was declassified as cyclone ~24hrs ago).
  This forecast explains what ex Hale is doing.
  https://www.metservice.com/marine/high-seas#subtropic
  I tend to watch the Regional Specialised Meteorological Centre (RSMC) Nadi site – way less “emotive”.
  https://www.met.gov.fj/index.php?page=maps#3PM2023.01.09%2017.59.24.jpg
  
  3 1
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  January 9, 2023 9:07pm
Mike

[No thanks – contact editor@kiwiblog.co.nz if you wish. mod.]
0 0
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January 9, 2023 6:13pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

A nice day in Wellington, despite the weather catastrophism pushed by the Met Office & sundry MSM enablers
5 2
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January 9, 2023 6:38pm
mikenmildagain

Tom Hunter posted quite a few links in his comments today. Some of those links are dead.
3 7
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January 9, 2023 6:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’d like to help him out, again, but a lot of those links will be to the No Minister blog, which is here – https://nominister.wordpress.com/
  – but is very difficult to navigate.
  
  3 9
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  January 9, 2023 6:47pm
Maggie Pie

Sooo…..why DOES this keep happening? 🙁

https://twitter.com/wabbitwarrior/status/1612270924371464193
5 3
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January 9, 2023 7:16pm
Mr T

Totally agree with The Redbaiters comments on a weak woke Luxon and co.. Will need ACT to provide some backbone to National, or at least give them an excuse for some stronger policy.
14 4
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January 9, 2023 7:57pm

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