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February 2, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 02 February 2023

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

We feel your pain

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131099628/save-water-now-to-avoid-much-tougher-restrictions-wellingtonians-warned
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February 2, 2023 8:00am
- TS Child
  
  So.. what we actually need is to lay stormwater drains under SH1 so we can more evenly distribute the effects 😀
  
  I’m not entirely joking now I think about it – that’s kind of the ultimate infrastructure isn’t is: a country when floods and droughts can be managed so that rain or lack of is no longer a problem? And we can just print the money to make this happen, so it’s ok 😂
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:00am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Does that mean you agree that extreme weather events are becoming more common?
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:57am
    - TS Child
      
      @AR: I’m not old enough to comment on that. But extreme weather events have happened one way or another somewhere my whole life. And they seem to have happened before I was born. So … let’s plan for them? Because that sort of infrastructure would be amazing – imagine if no one anywhere had to worry about droughts and floods? No water restrictions, no rows over rivers, no sitting in a moat hoping the water doesn’t come into the house (or worse)… I wonder what the economic costs of all these things add up to? Probably quite a lot. Plus the emotional energy needed for the rows about who has what and who doesn’t. And the misery of suffering the consequences of losses. Ignoring the I assume) astronomical cost of such a project, this is potentially something infrastructure could make go away…
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:44am
      - cjn
        
        Our house after the earthquake had to be rebuilt to survive a 100 year event (flood or earthquake I think)
        
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        February 2, 2023 7:34pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Which extreme weather events?
      
      Over which geographic areas would you propose comparisons?
      
      Over what time span would you propose comparisons?
      
      By cherry picking these factors it becomes possible to support any claim, no matter how vacuous.
      
      But then you’re climate alarmist, so you already know this.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:20pm
nathie

Labour “magic up” $700m to extend the fuel & public transport subsidies.

HDPA pushes Michael Wood to explain where that amount of money is coming from and tries to brush it off.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/michael-wood-transport-minister-says-extending-the-fuel-tax-cut-will-ease-cost-of-living-pressures/

Mike Hosking does the same with Robbo this morning and same result.

Conclusion: $700m is nothing. Labour will have $billions up their sleeves to dish out to win the election.

It’s going to be a dirty election as Labour tries desperately to hang on to power. Most MSM will still be their cheerleaders.
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February 2, 2023 8:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Our New Prime Minister has a special bag of Fairy dust.
  
  He can make an unsustainable tax cut sustainable.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:37am
  - Paulus
    
    No, Labour/Greens will extend these fuel tax cuts failure so that the incoming Government can suck it up and be blamed by them and the media.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:04am
- Raphael
  
  And it will come from NZTA’s road maintenance budget (where it has been coming from). NZTA will be needing their contractors to buy cheaper materials to be able to afford to do basic road maintenance. The cheaper seal will lift as soon as a car drives over it.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:44am
  - cmm
    
    … leaving an even bigger hole for the next grown up government to fill.
    
    Oh well NZ, this is what you voted for. Now learn so you don’t make the same dumb mistake again. Or at least for a while anyway!
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:02am
  - mandk
    
    The damage to roads will also increase because EVs are significantly heavier that similar ICE cars.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:08am
    - cmm
      
      According to analysis by NZTA, the road wear goes up with the 4th power of the axle load.
      
      An EV is approx 1.6x the weight of an equivalent gas guzzler. Therefore the wear is approx 1.6×1.6×1.6×1.6 = 6.5 times the wear of a gas guzzler.
      
      With 6.5x the road wear of a dinosaur burner can we really afford to have these monstrosities on our roads with no road user charges?
      
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      February 2, 2023 9:51am
      - bjools
        
        Also from Mr Google
        “Bitumen is known for its waterproofing and adhesive properties, and is created through the crude oil distillation process. The process removes lighter crude oil materials such as diesel and gasoline, and leaves the heavier bitumen behind. The process is often repeated several times to get the finished product”
        So the more wear and tare, the more oil required to fix the damage…EV’s, I hear, use more emissions to manufacture….How are EV’s more environmentally friendly…again?
        
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        February 2, 2023 10:36am
      - mandk
        
        You are correct about the 4th power, but you haven’t got the calculation right.
        
        You need to compare the 4th power of the axle weight of an EV with that of an ICE. If an EV weighs 1.8 tonnes and the ICE weighs 1.5 tones, the EV will do x2 the damage if the weight in both cases is even across both axles.
        
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        February 2, 2023 11:04am
    - cmm
      
      Mandk: My calcs were based on comparing a Nissan Leaf to a similarly sized petrol car giving approx 1.6.
      
      Of course the actual number you will get depends on the actual ratio for the cars you choose to compare.
      
      If it is only 20% more then the wear difference is just
      over double.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:20pm
      - mandk
        
        Yes, but I don’t think an EV would be 1.6 times the weight of a similar sized ICE.
        Typically, the ratio would be 1.2-1.3.
        
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        February 2, 2023 1:51pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Not so much cheaper seal but by my understanding a 300% rise in seal imported to NZ, Not too mention inferior quality which may not be up too nz spec.
    
    Remember NZTA have taken over direct importation
    of ashfelt etc.
    I mean , What has already gone wrong ?? Where is the media on this ?
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If there’s one thing Labour knows, it is dirty and nasty.
  Bring it on!
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:46am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ad. For those who doubt me – remember Clark and Cullen. There is your dirty and nasty.
    
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    February 2, 2023 8:50am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    People see through their filth
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:42am
    - gravedodger
      
      I suggest Giant you are dreaming, a majority of their support are unreachable in any meaningful way.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:35pm
- Nickc2
  
  Given the country’s current debt, and it’s getting bigger by the day, why would another grouping of political parties want to take over the Treasury Benches?
  Clearly, they see themselves as saviours who not only want to save NZ from Bankruptcy and Communism. they are in fact True Patriots.
  Give em a go!
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:29am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s easy for marxists, just borrow another 700 mill
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:40am
- I remember when
  
  So its $700m the Government haven’t spent yet, but obviously are either going to spend at a later date or perhaps decide it will not spend.
  So at some time in the future it will be either additional cost or policy not being implemented.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:40am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I don’t know how they can take $700m from the “road maintenance” fund. It’s been very evident for a long time that virtually no road maintenance is being done.
  
  Possibly due to 95% of the fund going to cones…
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:04am
  - Dougal10
    
    I can see where it should come from. The Waitaki district council has an obsession with concrete curb and channeling intersections , this work attracts a 50% payment from nzta. They are putting these monster intersections out in the middle of nowhere. The other big subsidized waste is electronic corner flashing signs also in the middle of nowhere . So there is plenty of budget to cut or redirect to fixing the actual pavement that you drive on.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:46am
    - Taieri
      
      Or a roundabout-in-the-middle-of-nowhere fad. There is one on Blackhead Rd in Dunedin. Not all that much traffic there, but the intersection is now “safe”.
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:58am
- backster
  
  It comes from the bottomless Covid fund.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:23am
  - cjn
    
    Talking about covid, Dr John Campbell was on line talking about excess death across Europe, the USA, Australia, Canada and perhaps New Zealand ie deaths that are above what has been the norm and not caused by the pandemic. In Australia it is 16% and deaths are starting to be referred to the coroner. But governments and the MSM are not interested in the subject. What did he discover about NZ? That it was very difficult to get stats from government sources . 2017 was the latest available. He went elsewhere to discover that we had excess deaths of 10% last year. Does anyone know of research being done on the topic?
    
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    February 2, 2023 7:45pm
    - Ghost
      
      https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=104676
      
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      February 2, 2023 7:58pm
- Taieri
  
  Labour “magic up” $700m to extend the fuel & public transport subsidies
  ————-
  How keeping the road tax lower is the “fuel subsidy”?
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:39am
- Lance
  
  Odd
  Labour went on and on and on and on and on………………………………. and on about the EXTREME expense of $26M for the flag referendum as though children would starve and homelessness will increase dramatically at such wasteful spending.
  
  It’s different with Labour does it (except they just add a few 00’s)
  
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  February 2, 2023 2:29pm
Bridgenag

Have Public Health Authorities Been Sacrificing Our Children on the Altar of Vaccines ? 

“We will not address collectively the public health disaster that has been happening for nearly 60 years. This public health disaster was driven essentially by the underlying authoritarian belief within part of Public Health Authorities and the Medical community that they know better, and therefore our informed consent can be nudged and manipulated for the greater cause of perceived collective health.”
https://open.substack.com/pub/covidmythbuster/p/have-public-health-authorities-been?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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February 2, 2023 8:06am
Yvette

YouTube video – “Did Jacinda Ardern really want to resign as Prime Minster of New Zealand or was she made to. What does her body language and non-verbal cues reveal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rrv9qRHZ24
– is interesting, but a little slow, however a Commenter may be more observant –

Mara Dall: This is actually like a speech that a PM gives when they have lost an election and are conceding defeat. Definitely not done by choice!

__________

“I know there will be much discussion in the aftermath of this decision as to what the so-called “real” reason was. I can tell you, that what I am sharing today is it” – Jacinda Ardern

Robert McKee, a Fulbright Scholar, is the most sought after screenwriting lecturer around the globe.
Peter Jackson (The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, The Hobbit) has lauded him as “The Guru of Gurus.”
McKee. in a talk to New Zealand National Film Unit staff, pointed out that in the movie TERMINATOR, when teenage John Carter, on screen right at the movie’s end, starts trying to figure out how Arnold comes back from the future to save him, his mother (There’s a storm coming …) says “Don’t even start“, which is actually telling the cinema audience to not even bother thinking about it either – just as Jacinda here, above, tells you don’t even “discuss in the aftermath of this decision, as to what the so-called “real” reason was” for her TERMINATIAN.

It will perhaps be in a NZ On Air / NETFLIX series.
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February 2, 2023 8:06am
- Simon
  
  Like everything about Cindy her quitting due to lacking energy was fake. She was pushed. From winning 50% of the vote in 2020 to forced out just out 2 yrs later, with MSM of course providing cover for removal.
  
  Probably a good political book about Cindy 50 % of vote to being kicked out by her colleagues / Labo leadership. Her removal giving the country a real lift.
  
  But overall she is just gone now. Very regrettable episode in NZ history. But maybe Cindy is more a sad reflection on NZ and wider system failure. Time will tell, but suspect Cindy was merely a symptom of system decline.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:44am
  - Prince
    
    I think it reflects a sea change in NZ Media.
    In the 20th Century all Govts were treated by the media with great suspicion. Cartoonists always took a jaundiced view. Every policy was analysed, critiqued and both sides given.
    Now, the media have taken sides. Cartoonist applaud the Govt and ridicule the Opposition. The media are very close to ministers, in many cases uncomfortably so.
    A good example is the schools closure in Auckland. Luxon and Seymour opposed it, described it as a ‘shambles’. They were subjected to hostile media asking why they didn’t understand the ‘State of Emergency’ needs. They were putting lives at risk.
    A day later the Govt cancelled the closure, and the media hailed it as a great example of leadership, reprinting the press releases word for word.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:23am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Don’t cry for me aotearoa; the truth is, I never left you…
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:27am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    “Time will tell, but suspect Cindy was merely a symptom of system decline.” – A symptom of the decline in political and personal integrity from the top down” There fixed it for you Simon.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:24am
  - Paulus
    
    Unions who are Labour’s piper who,pay the tunes, saw that she was a loser for the Party, so like as happened before, it was suggested that she went.
    Only the Labour Party counts first.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:08am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Clearly she was pushed, there is no way this bunch of arseholes could be so prepared after a couple of days
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:43am
- cmm
  
  They say body language doesn’t lie.
  
  That is based on people feeling uncomfortable when they’re lying.
  
  But we’re talking Cindy here. She’s been lying since she was in nappies. She lies when there is no need to do so. ie. She feels uncomfortable when she’s telling the truth.
  
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  February 2, 2023 1:23pm
- Philview
  
  It is painful that the media aren’t interested in any investigation into this but are happy to play the misogyny angle. Whatever the reason, this has been planned for months.
  
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  February 2, 2023 1:44pm
Yvette

A separate “3 Waters” advisory group – That’s new?
… Māori have for months been on the receiving end of abuse from New Zealanders alleging Three Waters is about giving greater rights to Māori than any government ever has before.
Iwi leaders will be keen to change the narrative, but that means some tough conversations with Hipkins, McAnulty, Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson, and the rest of the Māori caucus about how to peel back some of the controversial co-governance aspects without leaving Māori out in the cold completely.

One suggestion has been to create a separate advisory group as part of the new Three Waters structure that includes Māori representation and provides a voice for any decisions, without handing over rights or veto power that could be misinterpreted as preferential treatment.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hipkins-picks-his-team-turns-his-focus-to-policy-purge?

At present, established in Law and having existed already for one year, a Maori Advisory Council presides over Taumata Arowai (the Water Regulator) which will preside over the Four Regional “3 Waters” Entities when they start in June this year, as they are also written already into Law.
And there is also the “unbridled power” of Mana o te Wai Statements, also now Law.

So is the “suggested (above) creation of a separate advisory group”, be the present Maori Advisory Council, now presiding over “3 Waters” Taumata Arowai, change its name and become the “separate advisory group” that is suggested be created, or will there be a new Maori Advisory Council to advise the present Maori Advisory Council?

Explain that Chris Hipkins.
Pipa Mahuta, Chair of the present Maori Advisory Council is probably acutely interested in an answer, as are we

And as would be Waikato-Tainui’s Tukoroirangi Morgan, (out of region) appointee to lead the northern Three Waters iwi body – he’d be likely mildly interested as well
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February 2, 2023 8:07am
- Grunter
  
  The “5-Waters” debacle/con-job needs to be watched very carefully. Hipkins is about to pull a swifty that convinces the MSM and the blind majority of Kiwis that he has ‘watered down co-governance. The reality is the real power and danger is in Te Mana o te Wai. Only selected local iwi can make these legally binding statements. They have 100% control over all local waters. It’s not 50/50 co-governance at the local level (that’s the sucker punch). These Te Mana o te Wai statements then have to be ratified by the Tipa Mahuta (Maori Advisory Council and 2IC of Mahuta Corp). And this is literally what the new laws passed in December spell out. Go read Thomas Cranmer’s sub-stack for full details. It’s unbelievable. THIS IS ALREADY LAW IN NEW ZEALAND……….(and no one is talking about it)
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:59am
  - I remember when
    
    Te Pati Maori:
    ‘equity-focused finiancial relief fund for whanau who have lost homes and belongings in all flood impacted areas, and meet the full costs of uninsured whanau.’
    
    Sounds right to me.
    Who needs insurance!!
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:57am
- Nickc2
  
  My answer to the whole #Waters fiasco is to repeal all legislation pertaining to it and put ratepayer-elected councils back in charge!
  If councils have been negligent in maintaining their systems, the Govt should give them a LOAN to fix them subject to Govt appointed inspection on completion.
  PS: All loans must be repaid complete with interest and not written off at some convenient time in the future for political purposes.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:49am
  - Paulus
    
    Tauranga is in an unholy mess after Mahuta’s appointing Commissioners have just barged ahead with alomost total destruction of the so called CBD, and they will not be there after another rwo years to see the destruction they caused.
    Blow the ratepayer they are the people who will pay the ultimate cost of their profligatory attitude.
    Look it up !
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:12am
    - Nickc2
      
      You have my sympathy. However, a large proportion of the voting population put this Govt in Power and greed, corruption, incompetence, and Nanaia Mahuta did the rest.
      Don’t forget, some idiot named Winston Peters started the ball rolling.
      
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      February 2, 2023 11:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

Where is the money for Oranga Tamariki going?

The report noted it was difficult to understand the root of the cause since the number of tamariki and rangatahi in care has reduced, while the number of social workers has increased by 30 per cent since 2017.

The agency could not identify whether basic human rights such as health and education needs were being met.

This included being unable to track whether a child has attended annual medical and dental checks, if impacted by mental health or if they were attending school.

The report revealed 32 per cent of tamariki were placed before a caregiver assessment was completed, or before the caregiver was fully approved.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/oranga-tamariki-not-meeting-minimal-standards-for-children-in-care-report/IHI2EYSYZNCYLNAJLTJWIYMT4U/

Why isn’t the Report available on the website of the
Independent Children’s Monitor?
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February 2, 2023 8:13am
- kowtow
  
  How many times has that body been renamed , all the while it continues its downward spiral.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:24am
  - Nickc2
    
    It’s been said many times on KB that once given a Maori name …………..!
    The evidence is obvious with that Govt appointed and managed entity.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:59am
- Frank the tank
  
  Similar things happen in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:27am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s no coincidence, Oranga Tamariki has Branch Offices there too. //
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:02am
- NothingLeft
  
  Extra money burnt on the altar of Maori wonderfulness. But you can bet the outcomes will be worse (as with everything labour touches)
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:31am
- Simon
  
  Orange Tamariki a bog standard govt department which someone has undertaken a review because think of the children.
  
  All govt departments are dysfunctional messes who only at best muddle through with the benefit of unlimited tax payor funding.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:49am
- Mark Hanley
  
  Where is our money?
  
  From 2008 to 2017 the total tax take rose from $51,255m to $69,223m or 35%. By the 2022 financial year, tax revenue had hit $100.6b, a 31% increase in just 5 years. The much slower population growth over the last 5 years means individual tax burden increases are much greater.
  
  Plus debt.
  
  So where is all the money? All government KPIs are getting worse so it’s not being spent on improving public services.
  
  Crime has risen so its not being spent on more effective police and courts.
  
  The Health sector kpis are declining so it hasn’t been spent on improving health services.
  
  School attendance and achievement are all declining so it hasn’t been spent on improving education.
  
  The road toll and suicide statistics are all getting worse so it hasn’t been spent on mental health or transport.
  
  So where is our money?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:01am
  - NothingLeft
    
    And Nats were reducing debt in 2017.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:17am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Luxon keeps stating that their taxes are hidden, the money is being pillaged from the same poor suffering bastards
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:45am
  - amospicton
    
    The money was wasted encouraging people to sit and home and collect and then spend money from the government. The money’s gone and we have a whole cohort who can’t make the association between work/productivity and living standards. A complete catastrophe.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:55am
  - Nickc2
    
    Well, they did have to buy a new fleet of ToW vehicles for the Treaty Lawyers, their cuzzies and bros, etc eh? Top-of-the-range Ford Rangers complete with blacked-out windows are not cheap ya know!
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:11am
  - crikey
    
    Mark Hanley: What government KPIs (under Labour)??
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:40am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Crikey – good point. The KPIs Hipkins and his pals can’t hide like: ram raids, NCEA results, emergency department wait times.
      
      Dr Rata noted that many suicides are now being recorded as accidental deaths and yet, the last suicide figures I saw were increasing. The road toll and gang numbers also slip out on occasion. It’s all bad I’m afraid.
      
      Unfortunately none of the above explains where our money is and who has it.
      
      If our money is not being spent on improving public services then where is it and why?
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:12pm
      - mawm
        
        One should probably look at what is spent on public sector salaries. An annual comparison would be interesting.
        
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        February 2, 2023 1:02pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I no longer have young or teenaged children, and when I did, our household would not have been on the list of those to visit to “uplift” children *.
  
  However, I can tell you this: if anyone ever did turn up and said they were here to uplift “tamariki” or “rangatahi” I’d advise them that no such creatures were at this addres and they could FRO.
  
  * disclaimer: our kids were pretty free-range in their outdoor activities, and did all the things kids used to do – learn to ride bikes by falling off and remembering where the line is, climb trees, play bullrush, tag, jump on trampolines and so on. Often when we were putting them in the bath and saw all the bruises and occasional scab from a skinned knee or elbow, we’d comment that it was lucky child protection (or whatever sensible name the agency was called, long since abandoned for woke Manglish) didn’t walk in at that moment. We’d have probably been arrested, along with the parents of every single one of their mates.
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:56am
- krazykiwi
  
  OT is the clapped out old ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, and state tips in billions of dollars to this failing construct.
  
  The strong fence at the top of the cliff is a biological mother and biological father caring for their offspring, and the state doesn’t encourage or reward this. Quite the opposite.
  
  Fresh, evidence-based thinking is needed. None of the political parties appear to be up for that. So the can is continually kicked down the road
  
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  February 2, 2023 1:29pm
Cassandra

It hasn’t taken long for the Hipkins administration to show that its just as incompetent as the Ardern one, which is no surprise since they’re the same people minus the frown and the empathy but its still got good teeth. The whitewash of co-governance has started. Even Finlayson’s spokesman is in on the act. Apparently it’s just designed to give tribes a say and improve the health and education of Maoris. Could have fooled me. I thought Maori wards and seats was about power and that actually going to school was the best way to improve education. Why not a Samoan health authority and Somali wards? How about none of the above instead?
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February 2, 2023 8:16am
- Jimmy Brown
  
  Who is Chris Hipkins?
  
  The bloke who made MIQ a hated hot mess; the bloke who tipped the polytechnic sector on its head; spent millions doing so to no obvious advantage so far; the bloke who didn’t visit a dairy that had been ram-raided until Mark Mitchell embarrassed him into it; the bloke in charge of one of the worst-performing education sectors in the OECD and a truancy rate to match; the bloke who has been present, instrumental if not in charge, of a bunch of decisions that have the government facing defeat this year; and the country in an economic mess.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:45am
  - septic skeptic
    
    No, not that Chris Hipkins. I think it is the other one. The one who lied about people being gang prostitutes and bagged Charlotte Bellis for getting stuck overseas.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:22am
    - amospicton
      
      ……and whose first act as Minister of Education was to kill charter schools.
      
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      February 2, 2023 9:56am
  - Tricati
    
    Great synopsis of Hipkin’s and his performance to date.
    Should be sent to the MSM shrills and ask them to justify their adoration of him, given his actual performance.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:42am
    - mawm
      
      One would hope that anybody standing to be a representative of their constituents would bring some skills with them to be able to steer the ship of state. All I see is a bunch of leftwing ideologues with no such skills.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:11pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “spent millions doing so to no obvious advantage so far” with regard to the Polytechnics and Technical Institutes.
    
    So far it’s been to a very obvious disadvantage. Expenses are through the roof, a toxic management culture that has seen dozens bail (including their first CEO Stephen Town), enrolments 15% down on previous years, and staff not knowing what they’re supposed to be doing.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:59am
Maggie Pie

“The Three Waters project is doomed to fail because it is not sustainable in our democracy for a $185 billion public utility programme to be 50% controlled by Maori.
They are public assets, not tribal baubles”

– SHANE JONES

Read the 3 Waters plan – managed by iwi & central govt.
Kia Ora……

https://dia.govt.nz/three-waters-reform-programme-about-the-reform-programme
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February 2, 2023 8:20am
- Frank the tank
  
  Jesus! Opening that link is the stuff of nightmares…….
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Have a look at http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
  This is not being reported on by the scum NZ media.
  Go to the blogs tab and read through. The daily posts go back to August 5th.
  There is a Coup happening by the Elite Maori. We will lost Democracy and be led by Tyranny, by the Elite Maori.
  By the time we find out about this Coup, it will be too late. This Coup is not a fight with weapons, it is very quietly Political. Jaspinda was giving Maori whatever they requested, is a delusional belief that she would remain in power.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:35am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thx for the link Steveo. Have retweeted far & wide. Scary stuff indeed 🙁
    
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    February 2, 2023 8:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Cheers. There is a NZ road tour coming up. Meeting places are listed here (tentative)
      https://www.dropbox.com/s/z595303teq7d1z5/Tour%20dates.pdf?dl=0
      
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      February 2, 2023 9:05am
  - I remember when
    
    Interesting that they mentioned “Nu Turani” in the Treaty.
    How on earth did they know about Jacinda’s “Nu Turani” away back in 1840.
    Perhaps they meant ‘mahi nanakia.’
    
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    February 2, 2023 8:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Maori magic?
      I’m not even sure what it means.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:21pm
- Yvette
  
  The linked item leaves an essential point until its last paragraph –
  Taumata Arowai has a strong focus on the safety of New Zealand’s drinking water and on 15 November 2021 became the drinking water regulator. In 2024, it will assume responsibility for wastewater and stormwater networks, becoming the three waters regulator for Aotearoa.
  
  Our three pou (pillars)
  The Three Waters Reform Programme has three key pou, or pillars:
  [1] Establishment of a dedicated water service regulator, Taumata Arowai;
  
  – and it doesn’t mention the Maori Advisory Council that presides over the dedicated water service regulator, Taumata Arowai.
  
  An untruth by omission?
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:38am
- Nickc2
  
  Come on Shane, you could have fixed a lot of Water Systems with your $3Bn Slush Fund, but you didn’t. Instead, you embarked on a vote-buying spree with most of it.
  PS: Where did the rest of it go Shane? To the best of my knowledge, there’s been no published audit.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:20am
- Paulus
  
  Why then are they currently employing many very senior people (special people) and leasing huge expensive up market offices throughout the country ?
  
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  February 2, 2023 1:57pm
Frank the tank

So our MSM has their new crisis porn in regards to the Auckland floods (despite only receiving a third of what Brisbane did 3 years ago – now that was a fuc*ing flood). I am not trying to belittle people that genuinely got affected by the flooding however this ain’t a patch on flooding seen in other parts of the world recently.

And surprise, surprise the cultists have sprung back into action.

-Facilities closed
-Beaches closed
-Everything closed
-Warnings up the wazoo
-“Be Kind” and “abundance of Caution” type buzzwords rising from the crypt.
-An army of “Captain Hindsights” from the joint ships of HMS Academia and media.

I’m surprised a certain lady with pink hair and her mate with the broken calculator haven’t been sighted.

The cynic in me is thinking it’s an election strategy by L9.

This is a depressing little third world country……
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February 2, 2023 8:22am
- TS Child
  
  Please: i need a trigger warning if you’re going to use phrases like ‘B* K**d’ and ‘A* Abu***ce’ of Cau***n’ 😱
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:04am
  - Frank the tank
    
    The frustrating thing is there is still 25-35% of the population that love being treated like a child and being told what to do and think.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe the pink terror and the model player are embarrassed after being caught out with their lies?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:09am
  - Local Miller
    
    People like them wit no shame never feel embarrassment.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:49am
- Deane Jessep
  
  I feel the sane way. Instead of knuckling down and sorting stuff, the usual (authoritarian) suspects have the stink of “let’s stretch” it out about them.
  
  These ghouls have never met a disaster they couldn’t suck the remaining life out of.
  
  The only thing that’s put a smile on my face is the thought of Jacinda sitting at home in Mount Albert having just resigned. It must have been maddening watching the disaster roll in but not be in a position to virtue signal about it.
  
  I can imagine her exclaiming to Clark “why couldn’t it have happened two weeks earlier!”. 😂
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:25am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Given the location of Ms Arderns home she will be paddling around waiting for the water levels to recede.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:46am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Doesn’t she live in Pt. Chev now ?
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:47am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Deane,
    
    Silly. She won’t be in Auckland.
    
    Be back in Wellington surrounded by her fangirlz and bois.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:04am
    - Paulus
      
      Still in Premier House in Thorndon until she is ready to move out.
      Little boy not going to live there apparently, which means until she is out.
      
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      February 2, 2023 2:00pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  I love that over on The Daily Blog, “Bomber” has been orgasmic with joy at the MSM coverage of all this, just as he was about their fear porno coverage of Chinese Lung Rot.
  
  And with either no shame or no self-awareness he’s been moaning and bitching about their “cheap” coverage of Ram Raids using the old tag, If it bleeds, it leads. Funny how that works, eh “Bomber”.
  
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  February 2, 2023 2:57pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Meantime on Trotter’s blog look who showed up in the comments to have a moan and a whinge:
  
  opinion polls now have around 78% saying climate change is an important issue and 91% expecting more extreme weather events (IAG Ipsos Climate Change poll 11/7/2022). I dare say that figure is now higher.
  
  The deniers have become a rather shrill and noisy lot, particularly as they lose public support. They now completely dominate comment on conservative websites, such as KiwiBlog, pouring scorn on anyone who cares to differ.
  
  in my view, on a site like Bowalley Rd, they should be moderated. At least to ensure they don’t dominate. To be fair, three out of nine is a minority.
  
  The issue is more of a problem for the political right (especially the moderate right) than the political left. Just about all climate change deniers are on the right, embracing a whole slew of hard right issues.
  
  National has taken a moderate approach to the issue, and the new spokesperson, Todd Muller clearly accepts the science. Groundswell won’t be able to find too many friends in National, at least not influential ones.
  …
  However, I can say it is a pretty wearying battle having to constantly fight rabid climate change deniers. At least Terry Dunleavy wasn’t rabid. Passionate yes, but one could always talk to him in a reasonable way.
  
  Oh dear. Someone needs to send that to Groundswell just in case they make the mistake of promoting National to farmers. As the man himself said:
  
  “You are right. There were (and are) a substantial number of National MP’s who would have similar views to myself.”
  
  I’d like to think that ACT gains another 1000 votes every time Wayne opens his mouth.
  
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  February 2, 2023 3:02pm
  - Ghost
    
    You’re obsession with Wayne is disturbing.
    
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    February 2, 2023 3:33pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I merely appreciate the fact that he is so representative of National Party thinking in so many different areas.
      
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      February 2, 2023 3:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        Wayne hasn’t been in parliament since 2011, when he talks it is Wayne talking, not national. How many other retired politicians do you have a childish thread on. You should try debating with him instead of having a thread attacking him.
        
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        February 2, 2023 4:18pm
Creature from the river of filth

Minister for Auckland, the river of filth himself, has no ministery, no funding and no mandate for his involvement.

Seems to be more government overreach from Chipkins
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February 2, 2023 8:24am
- Chris2
  
  The last “Minister for Auckland” was Judith Tizard and look what happened to her – lost the previously relativly safe seat of Auckland Central, to National, at the next election.
  
  Let’s hope National choose a decent candidate for Mount Roskill!
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:10am
  - Deane Jessep
    
    My Roskill is 55%+ Asian, with most of that being Chinese and South East Asian and 25-30% European. If National are smart they will select a Chinese Kiwi (or similar) candidate who can appeal across demographics. It’s also working class so someone who knows how to do a real job and is willing to get out and knock on doors would be good too.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:37am
    - Paulus
      
      Am I not hearing the the previously loyal Indian Community no longer favour Labour after the continuous ramraids, and the no immigration of many of their extended familes to work in their business.
      And of course elderly family immigration, which is virtually at a standstill for over two years.
      
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      February 2, 2023 2:06pm
- Ehlana
  
  Please don’t give him ideas.
  
  BTW, how come Michael Wood is Minister for Auckland and not Tamaki Makaurau? Or are we awaiting a co-governing appointee?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:18am
  - kowtow
    
    ha , te media pardy, anxious to call the city by its recently incarnated Maori name won’t call its inhabitants ;
    
    tamaki makaurans
    
    or tamaki makauranders
    
    or some such
    
    Why ever not.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:37am
    - stiff cheese
      
      Some good points there, which makes me think:
      
      It’s the media which is leading the charge to ‘rename our cities’. Presumably, it’s been introduced in their ‘Style Guidelines’ which in this instance, are a form of peer pressure, or even workplace bullying. There was no mandate from voters for this change. Since it’s never been debated in a public forum, or written in a manifesto (to my knowledge) — it must be linked to the Public Interest Journalism Fund .. so all tied in with the ‘reign’ of Ardern. It’s not just a coincidence.
      
      Why can’t Luxon or Seymour promise to introduce legislation to protect NZers from this coercion? Specifically, no one can be fired, or have their career prospects hindered, for continuing to refer to NZ’s main cities SOLELY by their longstanding, ‘common use’ name.
      In other words, it would be illegal to coerce or ‘encourage’ anyone, to tack on another name to the commonplace, official one.
      Whatever recent change the media made to their Style Guidelines, would have to be reversed.
      
      This would protect e.g. young reporters, from managerial pressure to follow the media’s new naming convention. A change that voters have had no say in.
      
      Because no one in real life, uses these alternative place names .. no one that I meet anyway — and I feel no desire at all, to change.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:19pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        This would protect e.g. young reporters, from managerial pressure..
        
        It’s actually the former pushing this, as is the case with equally woke counterparts in the US and British MSM.
        
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        February 2, 2023 2:22pm
      - Jack5
        
        The most influential driver to Maorify New Zealand’s place names, including “New Zealand”, is the Geographic Place Names Board, more recently called the New Zealand Geographic Board.
        
        You can see at the link that follows that five of the ten board members are Maori or represent Maori. This is a foretaste of what co-governance: a return to pre-contact with the Modern world.
        
        If you are suggesting a name for some geographical feature, the board requires you to consult Maori.
        
        It gives as a reason for this:
        
        “We are committed to our Treaty partners and recognise the importance of their contribution. We actively collect and encourage the use of original Māori place names and their stories. We need to know everything we can about the history of the naming of a place to help us make good and informed decisions.”
        
        Board composition:
        
        https://www.linz.govt.nz/our-work/new-zealand-geographic-board/about-new-zealand-geographic-board/board-members
        
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        February 2, 2023 4:19pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        And hot off the presses….:
        
        Leaders of prominent news organizations are eschewing journalistic objectivity, claiming it is antithetical to a diversity of views in their newsrooms, according to a series of interviews conducted by two journalism scholars.
        …
        “Objectivity has got to go,” said Emilio Garcia-Ruiz, editor-in-chief at the San Francisco Chronicle.
        
        “[I]ncreasingly, reporters, editors and media critics argue that the concept of journalistic objectivity is a distortion of reality. They point out that the standard was dictated over decades by male editors in predominantly White newsrooms and reinforced their own view of the world,” Downie Jr. wrote. “They believe that pursuing objectivity can lead to false balance or misleading “bothsidesism” in covering stories about race, the treatment of women, LGBTQ rights, income inequality, climate change and many other subjects. And, in today’s diversifying newsrooms, they feel it negates many of their own identities, life experiences and cultural contexts, keeping them from pursuing truth in their work.”
        
        See! They’re not only going to be subjective/biased but proud of that because it’s the new morally superior way.
        
        Die MSM, DIE.
        
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        February 2, 2023 7:23pm
      - stiff cheese
        
        Jack5,
        
        Re the Board: it’s definitely been stacked to serve the WOKE agenda.
        Another legacy of the Ardern Regime? … or did ‘big softy’ — John Key — play a part?
        
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        February 2, 2023 7:53pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Think you will find only momentary lapses of pidgin NZ usage in the MSM since around the week commencing 23 Janauary 2023 – it’s only in our faulty memories that it was ever used.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:37am
  - Paulus
    
    I understood the Maori name was only applicable to a small part of what we know as Auckland.
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:07pm
- Raphael
  
  Is the Minister for Auckland going to be Auckland’s version of the Commision we have running Tauranga?
  I wouldn’t be surprised if they shove through legislation placing the Minister For Auckland in control of the council and the Mayor.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:30am
  - Paulus
    
    Mahuta did that in Tauaranga and it has been a disaster not that they will tell you so.
    Two more years yet before they go – but Labour could still get in !
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:08pm
- cmm
  
  Rule #1 for Emergencies:
  Be seen to be doing something, anything!
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Rule #1… Speed dial the TV Cameras for an immediate press ~~waffle~~ conference.
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:04pm
Bush Apologist

Where’s Leighton Baker RNZ?
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February 2, 2023 8:29am
cas

Anyone else amazed that there have been no ram raids and virtually no crime reported since Hipkins took over as PM?
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February 2, 2023 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is that because the Cops put the little shits into a hinaki?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:14am
- kowtow
  
  Covid neither . Gone .
  
  A te media pardy miracle.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:38am
  - mawm
    
    Daily death totals – those pesky additional deaths – gone.
    
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    February 2, 2023 1:22pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Relegated to a brief note…..
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483335/covid-19-update-10-589-new-cases-28-deaths-and-189-in-hospital
    
    3781 deaths, so far.
    https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics#deaths
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:09pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  But not when he was police minister, floods may possibly done that
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:11am
- cmm
  
  It is clear that once she reached a certain use-by date they decided she had to go.
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:36am
  - stiff cheese
    
    Yes, I think she was ‘pushed out’ too.
    She was fighting back sobs and tears when she resigned. They weren’t tears of relief, either — I think that deep down, she knows she’s been a failure on multiple fronts.
    
    Will she still be allowed to tour the nation’s schoolrooms? Small kids sitting on mats, were easily won over — they thought she was some kind of princess — that could lift her spirits.
    
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    February 2, 2023 12:47pm
    - cmm
      
      “Will she still be allowed to tour the nation’s schoolrooms?”
      
      I can’t see it. She’s over. They want every one of Labour’s problems to be tied to her so that they can sell Chippy as a fresh start: “refresh, refocus, reprioritise,…”
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:26pm
- Nickc2
  
  All the stealable cars have been flooded and are unreliable as getaway vehicles.
  
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  February 2, 2023 12:27pm
Ford Prefect

Is Chris Hipkins really going to grab back all those voters who started doubting Jacinda?

As I look around at the people walking by its pretty easy to pick out the Jacinda-philes. The middle-aged single woman dressed a little frumpy, the blue haired young and old still wearing masks, and the overly woke, hen-picked males that care soooo much. They all looked upon this amazing woman because she was one of them (in their minds).

Are these tragics, with no grasp of reality, going to look at Chippie and get that same warm feeling? I think they will be less keen on election day and not bother voting.
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February 2, 2023 8:33am
kevn

@Creature… I’m guessing the ‘River of Filth’ has become a permanent moniker for wood.
wood for brains. Just what Aklder’s need. NOT.
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February 2, 2023 8:33am
- cmm
  
  Ya vote for him, ya get him!
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:55am
I remember when

NIWA: Rainfall Records:
All at Cropp at Waterfall (Hokitika Catchment.)
24 Hrs: 869mm 2013
Calendar Month: 2927 mm 1995
31 Days: 3813 mm 1999
Calendar Year: 16,617 mm 1999
365 Days: 18,413 mm 1997
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February 2, 2023 8:36am
- NothingLeft
  
  south island west coast 900-1200m altitude gets something like 10m/year rainfall on average. If you could capture it all and run it though a dam to sea level it would power NZ.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:01am
  - Matt Long
    
    We can’t have dams on the West Coast. A dam that covered 0.00000000001% of area of the West Coast would destroy it all forever.
    And what about the genetically unique snail that lives in that valley?
    Dear me no, renewable, reliable clean energy is the last thing we need.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:31am
    - Jack5
      
      I’m no biologist, but I think it is an interesting snail.
      The Powelliphanta snails are huge, and are non-vegetarian to the point of being cannibals.
      
      Apparently various types of them once lived around much of NZ.
      
      I wonder if the folk who think kiwis would best be saved by farming them could do anything with these big snails? Super escargots for France’s epicurean importers?
      
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      February 2, 2023 2:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

What happens to the old Chief of Staff?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131123025/andrew-kirton-appointed-as-prime-minister-chris-hipkins-chief-of-staff
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February 2, 2023 8:44am
- cmm
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaJHOIJNtM
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:56am
- plc
  
  Perhaps Hipkins believes “no” means “no”
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He got dumped because of his part of covering up the youth fiddling at the camps remember, he had to stand down in disgrace as far as I remember, Filth does not matter to Marxists
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:14am
- LauraNorda
  
  Probably gone back to his home in Te Kuiti.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:15am
cmm

Today is officially the day when I have lived as long in NZ as I did in South Africa. 30.5 years in each.

Can I call myself a Kiwi yet?
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February 2, 2023 8:50am
- Luke Piewalker
  
  Welcome to Kiwiland CMM.
  As long as you wear an AllBlacks shirt you will be fine.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:01am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Do you still have a funny accent?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Being on the Shore I hear that accent frequently.
    Makes me happy that they chose NZ for a home.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:25am
  - cmm
    
    Bloody hilarious!
    
    I guess it is a bit half-n-half still. Since I’m over 60 it is unlikely to change much further.
    
    I can still speak Afrikaans and isiZulu/isiXhosa which require making funny sounds (fricative g, fricative hl and various clicks etc) that the normal Kiwi can’t handle. This probably prevents me from fully detribalising.
    
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    February 2, 2023 1:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yep, you’re a Kiwi. Want a MAGA hat? Make Ardern Go Away.
  She has stepped down as PM, but she is still there.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:27am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Depends if you like Watties tomato sauce. 😆
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:55am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    How many years to you think you’ll be bleating about an ex PM and telling the board “what she thought?” Keep it up Steve you might wake up after the election.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:01am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      God, you write some rubbish – disguised as an insult.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:29pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve: What do you expect from a two time killer with zero shame? The prick should give thanks every single morning he wakes up alive…
        
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        February 2, 2023 1:29pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Can I call myself a Kiwi yet?
  
  Only you can answer that, cmm.
  
  Given that it’s not clear why you ask, perhaps you could answer a couple of questions—
  
  1. Do you consider yourself to be a New Zealander, or do you still consider yourself to be a South African who it just so happens has chosen to live in New Zealand?
  
  2. What is your status: permanent resident, or naturalised New Zealand citizen?
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:49am
  - cmm
    
    To answer your questions:
    * I applied for NZ citizenship almost as soon as I could (after 6 years, minimum is 5 years). So I have been an NZ citizen for nearly 24 years.
    * I am no longer a SA citizen. I am only a NZ citizen.
    * I have never been back to SA.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:13am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks, cmm. You’re a Kiwi.
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:30am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I asked about your accent because in some folks’ eyes that will define your nationality.
      
      My old man spoke with a Glaswegian accent.. He lived in NZ for 50+ years and served in the NZ Army during WW2, but was usually referred to as a Scotsman.
      
      My in-laws spoke perfect English with obvious foreign accents. My hubby, born & raised in Palmerston North speaks Kiwi, but is occasionally asked how long has he been in NZ ( perhaps because of his “foreign” name & appearance?) and has even had folks commenting on how well he speaks English!
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:47am
    - mawm
      
      cmm – I’ve been here over 20 years but the defining moment of becoming a kiwi happened soon after arriving here. I came with a job and on a permanent residence visa. I returned to SA to sort out some problems about a year later. When I came through passport control on the way back the lovely lady there said “welcome home” to me. I nearly burst into tears.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:34pm
- MCōs
  
  That’s up to you, I guess.
  My Mum came out from the UK in 1945. She died 68 years later and I don’t think she gave it any thought, but the last time she went to England she couldn’t wait to get back home.
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:36am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sorry to hear about your mum, Cossie.
    
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    February 2, 2023 1:36pm
  - cmm
    
    I felt that way on my various trips to USA.
    
    Bloody marvellous getting back to NZ, even if you’re coming into Auckland.
    
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    February 2, 2023 1:55pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131109688/2023-the-year-of-the-backlash-against-mori-again
“Despite Māori having the least tolerance for the impacts of the cost-of-living crisis which continues to steal food from our tables and heating from our homes, a much-needed focus on supporting hapū and iwi to help our own is looking increasingly politically unpopular this year.”
If the cost of living crisis is causing food to be stolen from tables – perhaps consider changing spending habits.
That is what many people have to do – make sacrifices in personal spending in order to buy food to feed children and the elderly.
That’s what my parents did, anyway.
My dad , decades ago now, gave up smoking and took a basic sandwich lunch to work so that my brother and I had enough.
He cut his beer consumption to a couple on a Saturday and fish and chips from a shop were an absolute luxury.
He grew up in a working class family where you had either butter or jam on your bread – never both.
He never received a taxpayer benefit – unless you count the old age pension as one.
He didn’t spend money on illegal drugs, tattoos or a dog.
He went to work on the train. No car.
Family welfare mattered before personal expenditure.
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February 2, 2023 8:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sounds like my Dad on Pop’s family home/farm in Reporoa.
  Butter or jam, never both, I remember Dad saying that. Hardship was always there.
  Pop and Nana sold the farm and built in Mt Wellington. He left his retirement too late and died before I was born.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:34am
I remember when

Bowalley Road:
“the country’s stormwater system was designed for the climate we used to have – 50 or more years ago.”
Or, was it designed for the population we usd to have 50, or so, years ago.
New Zealand’s population 1970 – around 2,824,000.
The rural population was approx 531,000.
Present population is about 5,130,000.
While the rural population is about 677,000.
In 1970 Auckland had a population of 635,000.
Now it has around 1,657,000.

What effect would the current rain have had on 1970s Auckland?
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February 2, 2023 9:05am
- rockape
  
  To answer your question. You would have probably had to put on your Red bands.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Younger generation have no clues what they are. Never ever stepped in cowshit.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:38am
- Frank the tank
  
  Silly.
  
  Don’t apply logic to the argument when we can just ban plastic cups and give an extra 5% rebate on a Nissan Leaf and everything will be fine in Wokeborg.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:08am
- Handyman
  
  The stormwater system of 50 years ago was designed for the climate of the previous 100 years of data.
  Climate is what you plan for; weather is what you get.
  
  The big difference was not population per se, but the fact it was so spread out with smaller houses on larger lots. There was a higher proportion of green space.
  Ironically it was green party policy that removed green spaces to intensify housing justify rail.
  Also, people did not build on land marked “flood plains”. The clue is in the name.
  
  Cost would have a big factor. Then, as now, pipes are not ribbon cutting events so politically not a high priority. Combining stormwater and sewage was also a common cost saving measure in those days.
  
  Auckland in the twentieth century would have coped with this week’s rain, and probably did.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:13am
  - Local Miller
    
    @Handyman – Auckland in the twentieth century would have coped with this week’s rain, and probably did.
    
    Actually it didn’t cope. 1935, central Auckland was under 2-3 feet (they used feet in those days) of water. https://pc.blogspot.com/2023/01/some-gratitude-amidst-flooding.html
    There were other such events over the century, but this one will suffice to make the point.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:04am
  - David Lenny
    
    Cost would…
    
    Yes. One only has to think of the harbour bridge, built with four lanes, instead of the likely extra lanes needed, to keep costs down.
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:51pm
- Matt Long
  
  I can’t work out if climate change caused COVID or COVID caused climate change.
  One thing is certain, if we could just kill off all the farmers people would no longer have to worry about either of them.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:36am
  - Taieri
    
    I can’t work out if climate change caused COVID or COVID caused climate change
    ————
    
    Both. It’s a closed loop feedback.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:47am
Maggie Pie

Yet another ‘poster boy’ for the reintroduction of the DEATH PENALTY!

Violent crimes deserve equally violent penalties. That is the only way to deal with the abhorrent behaviour of scum like this.

https://twitter.com/nzstuff/status/1620626136979079169

The Parole-Board also has a lot to answer for in this case 🙁
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February 2, 2023 9:06am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: I will repeat what I have said here before about the possibility of re-inducing capital punishment (CP) in New Zealand.
  
  First off, it’s simply never going to happen, and I have concluded, based on my experience in Tonga, that if it was reintroduced it would have hugely deleterious effects, i.e. persons clearly guilty of murder would be found guilty of manslaughter instead because of the possibility that they might hang. (I am assuming we would introduce a CP regime where the death sentence was discretionary and not mandatory, as it was before 1961)
  
  Let me explain why my time in Tonga has convinced me to change my view – that we should reintroduce it for our worst murderers – as articulated in my book A life for a life – a case for capital punishment 1999, Hazard Press, Christchurch.
  
  Tonga still has the death penalty as a discretionary sentence (the other option is LWOP) for murder. The last time it was used was in 1987, when three men were hanged for the brutal murder of another. As is usually the case with such murders up here, it was a combination of booze, testosterone, and the bush knife which all male Tongans have.
  
  After that hanging, there were no murder convictions in Tonga for 20 years – despite there being some utterly blatant murders. The reason was the church ministers told their congregations that if they were on a jury and convicted a man of murder he would hang (which was a lie, because the sentence is discretionary) but more importantly for them, THEY would go to hell for having caused him to be hanged.
  
  It took a specific direction in 2000 from the then Chief Justice of Tonga to a jury deciding the guilt or innocence of a murder accused for the first murder conviction in 20 years to be entered.
  
  For quite different reasons, I am convinced the exact same phenomenon would occur in NZ should be ever reintroduce CP. Can you imagine your young vegan Green voter or some lady who lunches from Remmers ever voting to convict a man if there was even the chance he might hang?
  
  As in Tonga between 1987 and 2000, the result would be what lawyers call “perverse verdicts” where, despite clear evidence of murder, verdicts of manslaughter would often be the result. In other words, reintroducing CP would have the opposite effect than that intended.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:31am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thnx for the interesting explanation David. I really enjoy your informative posts.
    
    Although you may be misreading the feelings of ….”the ladies who lunch in Remmers”
    Everyone I know thinks just like me, they would gladly cut their balls off with an electric carving knife and take pleasure in feeding the rest to the pigs.
    
    We will never forget what happened to bestie Jo Pert. Her murderer was found ‘not guilty’ by reason of insanity. To this day he remains in hospital being kept alive thanks to kidney dialysis.
    
    Jo was buried 7 years ago.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:17am
    - David Garrett
      
      Maggie: Interesting what you say about the ladies who lunch of your acquaintance. What they say to you over drinks at the tennis club and what they would actually DO in the jury room when a man was likely to be sentenced to death upon conviction are perhaps very different.
      
      I am a believer in the jury system, but studies have shown that jurors can make decisions that defy logic. Believe it or not, some acquit “because he had lovely eyes” or convict “because his eyes were too close together”
      
      Let me give just one example of “manslaughter” which happened just after I first came here in 1999.
      
      Man, a soldier, suspects his wife – quite wrongly as it turned out – of being unfaithful to him. He goes to the armoury at the army base and checks out a firearm giving a false reason for doing so. He then drives to his wife’s place of work, orders all her workmates out, and interrogates her for almost an hour trying to get her to confess to something she hadn’t done.
      
      When that fails, he shoots her in the head at point blank range. Verdict: manslaughter. What I have described is a textbook case of what would be aggravated murder in NZ.
      
      I might be wrong about your buddies from the tennis club, but I simply cannot see some young Green voting vegan voting “guilty” in the jury room – even in a case like I have outlined – if the possible sentence was death.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:20pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        I’ve always fancied myself as ‘Forewoman’ on jury.
        Guilty until proven innocent is how I’d rock.
        Especially if his eyes WERE close together.
        
        But for some reason, me nor my partner have never ever been summoned. He reckons it’s because we’re not on the electoral role.
        
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        February 2, 2023 1:47pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Interesting that the Tongan Ministers would lie to their congregations and spread false doctrine like that DG. There are special warnings for those who would teach in the Bible, I wonder if those ministers themselves feel in danger of hell’s fire now?
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:47am
    - David Garrett
      
      Matt: The utter hypocrisy of the Tongan church ministers – or at least most of them – is why I hold the Tongan churches in such contempt.
      
      Most of the clergy have at least one illegitimate child and at least one mistress: their congregations seem to accept that. They can be in bed with their latest teenager at 5.30 am so long as they are thundering in the pulpit preaching fire and brimstone 30 minutes later.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:02pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Simple enough. Putin wants to re-establish the old soviet empire.
    
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    February 2, 2023 12:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “A Chief Probation Officer’s review released on Wednesday found “that the actions of staff neither caused nor could have prevented this offending”.
  A Chief Probation Officer? Who? Name him!
  If the prick was not on parole, he would not have murdered.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:44am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve: You are confused regarding the roles of the Parole Board and the Probation Service.
    
    In short, the Parole Board decides who ought to be released and the Probation Service – which has no say in that decision – is tasked with monitoring the person for compliance with the terms of that probation.
    
    So, it is the members of the Parole Board who ought to be the target of your ire – and it has to be said that they quite regularly make mistakes like this; although such mistakes are much less common since they decided Graeme Burton was safe to release in 2007. Burton killed for a second time six weeks later, and damn near killed a third person. Neither person was known to him – they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:56am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      If the probation service after doing its background checks about where a parolee is going to stay doesn’t confirm that it is “safe” for the prospective Parolee and unlikely to contribute to any further offending the person doesn’t get released. When probation checks family or social connections and considered them unsafe the person is also not recommended for parole. The same goes for a place of work, associates, etc, and what influence they may have on the prospective parolee, and if not satisfactory they will also not be recommended for release. The person’s history of drug or alcohol problems can also prevent parole. As could research into support networks. All of which the PB considers and may use to decline parole, make further recommendations, or set requirements that must be achieved. In short Probation services recommendations have major weight in any PB decision theirs is the legwork to inform the board as fully as possible. The Board undertakes no such work itself but can instruct certain things to be looked into.
      
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      February 2, 2023 12:11pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Remind me McDonald – how long was it after you were released from prison after being convicted of manslaughter did you go on to murder Margaret Bell?
        
        RIP Margaret Bell
        
        Born 1961
        Murdered by Brian Ronald McDonald 1979
        
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        February 2, 2023 12:30pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Stabbed a man to death at a party in 1974 then shot dead a 17 year old girl at a night club in 1979 (aiming for bouncer who had earlier denied him entry)?
        
        You did that Brian? If so, what do you think caused you to behave like that?
        
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        February 2, 2023 1:58pm
      - David Garrett
        
        NZer: No point in asking him mate…he has absolutely no shame about the fact that he ended not one but TWO lives prematurely. He comes on here, bold as brass, and comments on threads involving murder and other violent crime.
        
        I am no shrink, but in my view he is a psycopath; the major feature of psycopathy being a complete absence of conscience or remorse for what one has done.
        
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        February 2, 2023 4:56pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        DG he has no obligation to answer to KB punters on these matters?
        
        He’s served his time and hasn’t re-offended in decades?
        
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        February 2, 2023 8:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just reading further, he was not on parole. He had completed a sentence for rape.
    Probation put him in a premises I think.
    Yes DG, I did get things a bit mixed.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:00am
    - David Garrett
      
      No, he was on parole – but note he had almost completed his judge given sentence, meaning he had failed to get parole at at least three earlier hearings. As a person serving a seven year sentence, he became eligible for parole after one third, so at two years and four months.
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:14am
      - Matt Long
        
        However probation officers failed to notify the victim they had moved a rapist next door to her and failed to give her a phone number to call if she was concerned.
        
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        February 2, 2023 10:49am
- Taieri
  
  Violent crimes deserve equally violent penalties. That is the only way to deal with the abhorrent behaviour of scum like this.
  ————
  
  Yes. But…(there’s always a “but”)…
  
  Is there’s a parallel between a murder committed by an individual and a murder committed by the State.
  
  There’s a movie by the Polish director Krzysztof Kieslowski, “A Short Film About Killing”. Well worth watching. It changed my view of death penalty.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:52am
  - David Garrett
    
    Taieri: Your comparison is not accurate: the first killing is murder, the second is a state sanctioned killing.
    
    A better parallel is a soldier who kills in two different settings – in fact there is a real life NZ case: Col. Peta Awatere of the Maori Battalion in WW II.
    
    Awatere was lauded for his exploits in WW II including killing Germans in North Africa and Italy. After the war he was convicted of killing his wife’s lover and convicted of murder.
    
    The hangman who sprang the trap in both NZ and the UK was not committing murder – his were state sanctioned killings.
    
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    February 2, 2023 12:36pm
    - Taieri
      
      Your comparison is not accurate: the first killing is murder, the second is a state sanctioned killing
      ————–
      
      Perhaps. But killing is a killing. Someone has to carry it out. It doesn’t happen in vacuum and is not impersonal. “The hangman who springs the trap” is paid by the State to kill another human being and then goes home and sits down to have a dinner with his family. It doesn’t really make any difference how bad or how depraved this human being was.
      
      Any comparisons with soldiers killing other soldiers in the war miss the point; it is a completely different situation. Besides, colonel Awatere wasn’t sentenced to death.
      
      Watch the movie I mentioned above and see what you think then. It changed my thinking.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:48pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Col. Awatere would undoubtedly have been sentenced to death had the murder been 10 years earlier…but given his war record, the sentence may well have been commuted to life. That happened often in the 40’s and 50’s. That capricious nature of repeal was one of the most prominent negatives of CP. It was exactly the same in the UK, most notably in the case of one Ronald True.
        
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        February 2, 2023 5:03pm
      - Mike
        
        His war record included crimes that theoretically made him liable for the harshest penalties. But in war, the victors typically overlook the crimes of their own soldiers.
        
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        February 2, 2023 5:38pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Actually, Corrections via their Parolee management function have questions to answer.
  
  The Parole Board had turned him down multiple times for early release. AND only paroled him a few months ahead of his STATUTORY release date so they could impose special monitoring conditions – which is a smart move, because otherwise a lot of the controls on him wouldn’t have been able to be placed on his terms of release.
  
  Allowing him to live in an adjacent building to a potential victim was a mistake due to the limitations of the tracking anklet…. in terms of monitoring his curfew conditions etc. Also not leading neighbours know he is a scumbag is another failing
  
  Dont think the members of the parole board can be blamed here to be fair…
  
  The system overall failed but the Parole Board did its job in this case…
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:41am
  - Mike
    
    Is the probation service required to notify neighbors?
    Sorry, haven’t read rhe report, which probably covers this.
    
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    February 2, 2023 5:41pm
Rusty

It’s nearly a year since the Russian invasion of Ukraine began and I still can’t get my head around what it’s all about and who’s winning or losing.

The msm aren’t much help though probably because they don’t understand what this conflict is really about either.

Something is bizarre about this war which I can’t put my finger on.
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February 2, 2023 9:23am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Something is bizarre about this war which I can’t put my finger on.
  
  Massive corruption for decades in both Russia and Ukraine.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ask Hunter, and the ‘Big Guy”
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:01am
    - Taieri
      
      Yulia Tymoshenko “made” her first million well before anyone heard of Hunter.
      
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      February 2, 2023 11:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Would never have happened under Trump. The weakest link is Biden and the Dems.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:46am
- NothingLeft
  
  Ukraine on the back foot at the moment, Russia making small territory gains for last 2-3 weeks, as they push a winter offensive on frozen ground, but very expensive to Russia – losing 500-1000 troops a day, and using up major weapons at 10x rate they are built. Increasingly dodgy old soviet era weaponry being pressed into service as all good equipment now gone, and they are very short on artillery shells too. Slow gains for Russia are coming at extremely high price – no blitzkrieg type break-throughs, more like slow grind of WW1, and Russia is throwing convict troops carelessly at Ukrainian lines with no apparent care for lives lost.
  
  Ukraine is hard pressed with lack of heavy weapons and inability to cut supply lines into southern ukraine with limited range weapons they have available. They would dearly love to cut bridges into southern ukraine and Crimea to isolate Russian forces. New heavy weapons and longer range missiles promised by Western aid will make a big difference if they get them soon enough.
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:21am
  - Taieri
    
    very expensive to Russia – losing 500-1000 troops a day
    ———-
    
    Would be very interesting to know how many Ukrainian soldiers are killed/injured every day? Not much said about that.
    
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    February 2, 2023 1:50pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Yes that would be interesting to know, but unlikely to see real numbers. To date western intelligence seems to think overall losses are pretty similar on both sides, but losses increase greatly during offensives – and ukraine was on offensive for 9-10 months, while russia has only gone on offensive in last month or so with much lower quality equipment and badly trained and disciplined soldiers. It’s likely that Russian losses are several times ukrainians at the moment.
      
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      February 2, 2023 3:55pm
Widogast Corwin

Journalists and James Shaw insisting that the Auckland rain event is unprecedented and caused by climate change. Maybe.

However any journalist with a spare hour could write an essay in the devastating floods and other weather events that have affected New Zealand, well forever.

Here is an example from 1985. There are dozens of similar events listed in the NIWA archives.

“Heavy rain caused flooding and landslides in Auckland and Waikato. A Civil Defence Emergency was declared for Thames Borough and Thames Valley Region. Severe damage was done in Te Aroha and the Thames area. Three people were killed and one injured when a torrent of debris overwhelmed a house in Te Aroha, and and a woman was drowned at Waiomu.

“Coromandel recorded 331 mm (33.1 cm) of rain in the 24 hours to 9am on the 17th (Return Period 85 years).

“Coromandel recorded 226 mm (22.6 cm) of rain in the eight hours from 8pm to 4am on the 17th (Return Period more than 150 years).”

https://hwe.niwa.co.nz/event/February_1985_Auckland_and_Waikato_Flooding

The thing is we are not going to stop flood events in New Zealand by forcing people to stop driving cars. Which countries are best able to deal with extreme weather events? Rich countries. The current Government is making New Zealand poorer. “Making us poorer” is just another way of saying “cost of living crisis”. The irony is that the Government is now wailing about a “cost of living crisis” that they – and an incompetent Reserve Bank Governor – caused. And we are supposed to be thankful 🙁
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February 2, 2023 9:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Back in the 1970s-1980s the Ministry of Works put out a regular popular magazine “Water & Soil” every couple of months that carried details about the recent floods that had hit particular districts.
  
  Climate alarmism wasn’t a focus in those days…and the articles usually gave good detail about the weather system that generated the flood and the behaviour of the streams and rivers in the affected catchments.
  
  I miss that publication…..just as I miss many of the activities of the old Ministry of Works ( incl. the Catchment Boards).
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:57am
  - Doc Holliday
    
    The oil companies understood burning fossil fuel meant serious global warming – in the 1960s. That’s why they have spent billions on propaganda. Obviously it worked on the vulnerable – like religion. And, their annual profits are in the hundreds of billions.
    
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    February 2, 2023 2:11pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yeah, that $US 55.7 Billion annual profit of Exxon Mobil is eye-watering.
      
      https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/exxon-mobil-reached-record-profits-amid-high-gas-prices-war-in-ukraine#:~:text=NEW%20YORK%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20Exxon,oil%20soared%20close%20to%20%24150.
      
      I wonder who is buying their toxic products.
      
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      February 2, 2023 4:55pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @Widogast-
  To journalists and James Shaw, what happened in the past does not matter.
  Learning from past severe weather events has no relevance for them because they are the experts now.
  One must accept today’s agenda as the only reality.
  That is all that matters now.
  That is the way the James Shaws of this world think and they cannot tolerate any distractions from their societal control ambitions.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:41am
- alex Masterley
  
  What a great resource the Niwa event list is.
  When people say a rain event or similar is one off just point them at that.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:48am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Niwa will soon be instructed to disappear it – inconvenient to far left narratives
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:34am
- NZer In Exile
  
  ” James Shaw insisting that the Auckland rain event is unprecedented and caused by climate change.”
  
  Apparently this assertion was sourced from his own bottom as there is no evidence for this.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder how many cliff-top houses in Auckland will be dropping in value now.
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February 2, 2023 9:30am
- Biscuit
  
  Maggy, I’m sure the real estate English-manglers are onto it:
  
  Cliff-top house, superb location, great views, potential for a beach frontage.
  A great proposition for someone looking for everything at your doorstep. The practical layout will work exceptionally well for nowadays busy lifestyle. The kitchen flows through the dining area to the north facing deck, ideal for entertaining family and friends. Property will go soon. Make time to see it!
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:50am
  - Rusty
    
    @Biscuit.
    
    Wellington has more cliff top houses than Auckland but you don’t hear about landslips through bad weather events — so far!
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:35am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Anything loose has probably blown away long ago.
      
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      February 2, 2023 1:40pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Ah yep Rusty.
      
      I regularly ‘do’ the Eastern Hutt road and know a chap who had a hilltop residence just north of the Stokes Valley turnoff. And, just a couple of metres away south of that turnoff, are a few very-precariously-placed houses that have excrement-inducing slips now below them.
      
      I’m with alex in his comment on this thread. Nice and flat, solid material underneath. Views, I can get from planes!
      
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      February 2, 2023 6:55pm
- alex Masterley
  
  That is one reason I am ever so pleased that my humble little home sits on Mt Eden basalt rather than waitemata sandstone which is not known for its weathering qualities. Or, for that matter, the boggy stuff between lava flows.
  
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  February 2, 2023 9:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, it pays to check the Geology /Soil properties of a residence before you buy.
    
    Yesterday In Vino Veritas put up a link to the Flood Zones of Auckland region.
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/02/general_debate_01_february_2023.html#comment-3314180
    
    Anyone contemplating buying a property should check this information too.
    
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    February 2, 2023 10:27am
    - alex Masterley
      
      On the Flood zone map Eden Park is clearly defined as a flood zone. The last two days have seen the No 2 ground return to being a lake.
      
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      February 2, 2023 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, when the compulsory Maori language in real estate ads come in cliff tops will become ‘tihi pari’ and prone to slips will become ‘ka paheke’. If it comes to a legal battle the agent can say well being prone to slips was in the ad, but in another language.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:21am
Yvette

“3 Waters” and flood waters
During the raging covid pandemic when Maori were a prime care communications and access concern, I had the audacity to wonder while having my morning shower (where most of these thoughts occur), if a Maori Health Authority is warranted, why are the principles which establish that need, not applied to the then current difficulties in helping covid endangered Maori?
But now $100 million has been allocated to research what those remedies may be, and I realise: silly me, for considering What Came Down With The Last Shower.

Likewise, surely now: What will or would “3 Waters” Maori “co-governance” Advisory Boards offer in regard to the present Auckland flooding event, other than the obvious answer: cleaning the whole fucking mess up and repair or renew the broken or inadequate stormwater infrastructure.

What will the Maori Advisory Council over-seeing Water Regulator Taumata Arowai – first key pou, or pillar to “3 Waters” – recommend, or a Mana o te Wai Statement helpfully dictate?
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February 2, 2023 10:05am
- kevn
  
  @Yvette… The well funded MHA 100mil ‘covid endangered maori’ programme, will soon morph into an ‘adverse jab affected maori’ programme.
  
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  February 2, 2023 10:26am
- Paulus
  
  First thing that is going on – employing many hundreds of whanau senior staff first to design the paper headibg and new names for everything.
  Underway already substantially in all directions.
  
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  February 2, 2023 2:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
Labour are now on to this.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/when-it-comes-to-go-governance-who-is-the-greatest-spin-doctor-of-them-all-ben-thomas/

The links are not working. I will add them when they are.
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February 2, 2023 10:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Link working.
  https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Ben-Thomas-Dump-the-co-governance-name-its-too-tainted-by-confusion-Stuff.co_.nz_.pdf
  
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  February 2, 2023 12:13pm
mogg

Was Jacinda a fan of ChatGPT, she sure sounded that way;
ChatGPT to outsource their writing, but that education providers will adapt to enhance critical thinking or reasoning.[61] Emma Bowman with NPR wrote of the danger of students plagiarizing through an AI tool that may output biased or nonsensical text with an authoritative tone: “There are still many cases where you ask it a question and it’ll give you a very impressive-sounding answer that’s just dead wrong.”
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February 2, 2023 10:37am
Handyman

Weather is variable. However, over a long period it is possible to see recurrence rate of, say, heavy rainfall.
Let’s say on average every 10 years or so we get a 100mm day and every 30 year we get a 200m day and every 80 years we get a 300mm day.

So how do “reporters” provide a sense of perspective? They put a microphone in front of affected people who say something like “This is the worst I have ever seen it, and I’ve been here my whole life”. I can respect that coming from a farmer, but not from someone wearing a school uniform jacket.

After the next earthquake (overdue by the way) “reporters” will gasp that earthquakes in this community are unprecedented and several people in the street will confirm “this is a quiet street and this normally doesn’t happen”.
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February 2, 2023 10:55am
- cmm
  
  The “overdue” is based on very sketchy “science”.
  Basically they notice that there was an event around 1000 and another occurrence about 1500, then they “know” the spacing is 500 years so the next one is due in 2000 and is now overdue.
  
  Of course that is an oversimplification, but that’s about where some of this modelling is at.
  
  Sure, stresses build up over time and are then released by earthquakes, but the factors are really far too complete to say when the next one should come.
  
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  February 2, 2023 11:30am
  - NothingLeft
    
    The fast moving (30mm/year) alpine fault is estimated to have a big earthquake roughly every 290 years, with last big one in 1717 (27 in last 8000 years makes them very regular). We are slightly overdue for next big one with estimated 70% chance in next 50years of an 8+ earthquake.
    
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    February 2, 2023 11:46am
    - cmm
      
      Maybe, maybe not.
      
      Earthquakes happen when stresses build up. If the stresses find an easier path then they do not build up.
      
      The sequence of earthquakes Coleridge, Darfield, Christchurch, Kaikoura over the last 8 decades has opened up an alternative path for the stresses to be relieved. This quite likely takes a lot of stress build-up off the Alpine Fault and potentially defuses them.
      
      But that’s pure guesswork on my part. It could blow this evening for all anyone knows.
      
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      February 2, 2023 5:45pm
Maggie's partner

Chippy perched awkwardly on the edge of the pink fluffy throne. A rainbow sequin dug uncomfortably into his bottom. Before him, a crowd of fawning courtiers prostrated themselves, chanting as one “Chippy is our salvation, let us rejoice for 3 more years”.

One made his way towards the dais. It was Lord Robbo of Porkbarrel, noted Chippy, a loyal devotee of Queen Helen the 2nd, his immediate predecessor.

Robbo proffered a golden sack. “Magic Fair Dust, sire” he intoned reverently, “for the feeding of the Unicorns and scattering as largesse amongst” he paused and spat upon the floor, “your people”

“Chuffin ‘eck Robbo”, replied Chippy in his coarse Hutt Valley accent, “t’people ‘ave ‘ad enough of bloody Fairy Dust. Let’s give ’em summat they can get their teeth into. Pop down t’bakery and get us a big bag of sausage rolls”.

He paused, rolled up his sleeves to show he meant business and rose to his feet, to address the gathered throng.

“We’ll be putting Fairy Dust on hold for t’present!, he declaimed, “and focussing on things that matter to t’ordinary folk. I ‘ave a plan to fix this place, and make it great again for all t’ordinary folk”.

A shocked hush fell over the throng.

“A plan, sire? Pray tell us the details of your grand scheme so that we may rejoice in your infinite wisdom, your marvellous sagacity, your divine supremeness”, said Lord Robbo with what some perceived as just the tiniest hint of sneering insincerity.

“We’ll get to t’details later. But it’s a grand plan, trust me”, replied the King.

“Ah, plus ca change” muttered Robbo under his breath, “Hallelujah”

“But wait, there’s more”, said King Chippy, “The plan has a name. It’s called…Let’s ACTUALLY do this”

The crowd bust into spontaneous applause, many rising to their feet and cheering “Long live King Chippy”. This what what they had come for!

Now, I ‘ave to go” said the king, “I am meeting Winnie Winebox, ‘e has summat ‘e wants to discuss with me”.
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February 2, 2023 11:01am
- Nickc2
  
  Very good!
  
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  February 2, 2023 12:10pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I can see why Maggie Pie luvs you.
  
  She’d never have rainbow sequins on her cushions.
  
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  February 2, 2023 2:31pm
Paulus

Listening to the frightening situation particularly in the flood areas bof Auckland and the costs.
Here are some official figures (12 months to September 2022) of why all insurance costs will rise to pay for these insurance claims – Christchurch insurance costs have not been repaid yet.
Commercial Material Damage and Business Interruption, Gross Premiums $1,093, billion
Loss Ratio 82%
Domestic Buildings and Contents $2,009 billion
Loss Ratio 71%
Motor Commercial and Private $2,464 billion
Loss Ratio 67%
Total of all non life Insurances in New Zealand
$7,386 billion
Loss Ratio 86%
Just of interest !
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February 2, 2023 11:24am
- Local Miller
  
  A friend lives in an apartment with underground parking. All 150 cars have been assessed as write offs! At an estimated average replacement cost of $20,000 per car, that’s $3 Million in one building.
  
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  February 2, 2023 3:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

From FB:

Nothing says “TRUST THE SCIENCE”
like

“you can’t sue us if something goes wrong”
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February 2, 2023 11:45am
surfing

The media beat up and lies being made up about Wayne Brown is incredulous.

Reddit/Auckland is a good example of the hysterical and racist left.

I personally don’t like Wayne Brown’s leadership style so would be the last to defend him.

However, the left backlash and lies are nasty. Wayne Brown has done as good a job as anyone could have, given a quarter of a meter of rain dumped on Auckland in one day!!
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February 2, 2023 11:48am
Inandout

Paulus, general insurance acturial rates also take into account earthquake areas, based on regions; Wellingon probably being highest and areas like Whangarei amongst the lowest. Vehicle insurance is very much based on areas and cities seem to be where the claims are most, thus higher premiums. You are correct of course that all the insured will pay for the flood claims.
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February 2, 2023 12:01pm
NothingLeft

Auckland schools were told to close with a few hours notice and then allowed to open with a few hours notice. My local primary school was happy to close, but when given option to open announced that it would be inconvenient due to a small plumbing job they wanted done during the 6 week school holidays that hadn’t been completed, and rescheduling of a teacher only day from tuesday to friday.

Obviously just rationalizing their real motivation – to have another week off, and illustrating, again, the laziness and lack of professionalism in NZ schools. National take note of which way each Auckland school principal went on this decision in considering future who should lead these schools in future. They’ve marked themselves out pretty clearly.
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February 2, 2023 12:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot. Trump and Clinton.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vIl77KJ5eI8
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February 2, 2023 12:11pm
Brian McDonald

https://www.latimes.com/topic/covid-19-pandemic

The above explains itself and quote real organisations and people. Cheers.
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February 2, 2023 12:25pm
- Inandout
  
  BM, mate, Biden is not real.
  
  8 3
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  February 2, 2023 12:28pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    He’s a hologram?
    
    4 1
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    February 2, 2023 2:00pm
- Don Beckett
  
  LA Times. (snigger)
  
  10 3
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  February 2, 2023 12:50pm
Jack5

From next Sunday, the European Community is banning imports of Russian-refined diesel and other Russian products from oil.

Diesel prices are rising in Europe, and effects are likely to ripple through world markets.

Are any Kiwiblog followers in the oil industry and able to confirm or otherwise the Global Petrol Prices web site diesel price for NZ on Monday?

It lists this as $NZ2.166 a litre, which it compares with an NZ 95-octane petrol price of $NZ2.659.

Hope the Wellington bureaucrats who considered the Government position on Marsden Point closing watch the market closely.
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February 2, 2023 1:02pm
cmm

We’ve all heard of the Irish parachute that opens on impact, but surely this is taking Irish technology to heights it has never seen before.

Four Cork girls participating in a special programme especially for girls in STEM have “invented” an amazing device for those of us for whom EVs are impractical but we still want to fix our white/carbon guilt.

These girls have invented a “filter” to fit to your exhaust pipe (they’ve clearly been paying attention during sex ed) that has an activated carbon filter that, of course, takes out the CO2 leaving wonderful pure air for Gaia to enjoy.

” “Our project was looking for a way to reduce the impacts cars have on climate change. We discovered a technology called ‘Direct Air Capture’ which strips Co2 from the air using activated charcoal.”

Sorry girls, the only thing you stripped was the prize – from the hands of some other legitimate project.

While activated charcoal can, indeed, absorb CO2 there are massive limitations to doing so.

One kg of activated charcoal can absorb about 1.3moles of CO2 (about 30 litres) in perfect conditions. Way less if there’s a lot of water vapour and other contaminants (as there are in exhaust gases).

So let’s be very, very, kind and say this device holds 500g of activated charcoal and is 50% efficient (due to the fact it isn’t perfect). It can absorb maybe 0.6 moles of CO2 then it stops working. At all.

So how much is 0.6 moles? That’s the amount of CO2 produced by burning about 8 mls of petrol.

Drive 100 metres and this gadget has stopped working.

All it will do is obstruct the flow of the exhaust, causing the engine to be less efficient, causing even more fuel to be burned and more pollutants.

ie. A typical Green solution that achieves exactly the opposite of its goals.

Enjoy the fame ladies!

I don’t think corkbeo.ie is a parody site like The Onion, but I get half a feeling they should be.

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-teens-invent-car-exhaust-26105265
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February 2, 2023 1:11pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Not to mention the amount of CO2 produced to make the activated charcoal. Airheads on a mission.
  
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  February 2, 2023 1:38pm
Handyman

@cmm
You made me remember some chemistry. ☺

I see the next article in the same site reports yet another pub is closing due to high energy prices.
Perhaps there was a prize for closing the most local businesses due to carbon policies.
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February 2, 2023 1:41pm
nathie

New Faces but same old stupid policies behind the tired facade (or new lipstick on the old Labour pig as one famous cat hater used to say)!

Did I hear correctly on the news that new Labour Police Minister Stuart Nash wants dairies to stop selling cigarettes (and vapes?) to prevent crims and ram-raiders targeting them?

If so, NO! How about instead Labour and Nash start dealing with the crims and putting the costs back on to these crims, instead of hard work dairy owners and taxpayers!!!

Like allowing shop keepers to defend themselves and the Police and Courts putting these crims behind bars (jail, youth rehabilitation centre etc)!!

Can Labour still stop hugging crims please???
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February 2, 2023 1:48pm
- MCōs
  
  The point is, I would have thought, if dairies don’t have the capacity to protect themselves they should think twice about selling high value goods.
  
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  February 2, 2023 3:05pm
  - Yabster
    
    lol thats some great socialist thinking there – is that same thinking going to be applied to Jewellers, booze shops, any home?
    
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    February 2, 2023 3:15pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Are you really blaming the victims?
    It is not just dairies and tabbaco being taken in any case. smash and grabs and ram raids have been anything from jewelers, liquor outlets, through to butchers, to electronic shops, vege shops, even a sword retailer in Napier.
    
    Rather, the public/retailers are not allowed to defend their premises or their person.
    By way of a shotgun blast to the chest for instance.
    They were advised not to arm themselves by Chippie.
    There is no consequence from the powers that be that act as a disincentive either.
    Emergency services will be there just in time to remove the corpse or gather up the severed fingers though.
    
    15 1
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    February 2, 2023 3:20pm
  - kevn
    
    @mcos… Do pass on your intel to the Michael Hill stores and the other high value retailers who have experienced thieving.
    Invaluable.
    
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    February 2, 2023 3:40pm
  - nathie
    
    @ MC. Why should dairies suffer:
    
    1) Income loss (which will see some dairies close up for good as they become unprofitable. Also resulting in the big players (supermarkets, petrol stations) further monopolising sales.
    
    2) No real threat reduction (as ram raiders will do it for fun eg to thieve ice-creams etc). Which means they may as well close for good again …
    
    All because Labour/Hipkins/Nash are still … Soft On Crime!
    
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    February 2, 2023 3:55pm
    - Ghost
      
      Ram raids were happening under national which is why national rolled out the initial scheme of fog cannons etc.
      
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      February 2, 2023 4:04pm
      - nathie
        
        Whataboutism Alert!!! That’s nothing to do with Nanny State Chippie & Soft on Crime Nash banning cigarette sales (causing some dairies and families to consider giving up and shutting up shop)!
        
        Labour wants to kill off the Kiwi corner dairy – what a legacy Chippie and Nashie!
        
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        February 2, 2023 4:21pm
      - Ghost
        
        Head in the sand alert, pretending this issue is new.
        
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        February 2, 2023 4:32pm
  - mandk
    
    Isn’t that a bit like saying girls who don’t master self-defence should not go out at night dressed attractively?
    
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    February 2, 2023 4:05pm
    - Mike
      
      No.
      
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      February 2, 2023 5:55pm
  - cmm
    
    MCos. I have the skills, abilities and resources to defend myself but plod would probably get upset if I did.
    
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    February 2, 2023 8:17pm
BeaB

A news report on Radio NZ about the funeral of Cardinal George Pell told us he held ‘bigoted’ views. This was a surprising comment on Roman Catholic doctrine and beliefs from our state-funded radio station.
Will the reporter also inform us about the bigoted views of Muslim religious leaders?
Wayne Brown just told us what we all know – that our media are drongoes. With a very few exceptions.
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February 2, 2023 2:37pm
- Taieri
  
  A news report on Radio NZ about the funeral of Cardinal George Pell told us he held ‘bigoted’ views
  ————-
  
  “Bigoted”…that’s a matter of opinion isn’t it? What’s “bigoted” and what isn’t. Wonder what are the limits to non-bigoted views according to RNZ?
  
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  February 2, 2023 3:00pm
- Gravelroad
  
  There seems to be little or no editorial oversight on reporters, who can now have all sorts of claims published about people they disapprove of, based on personal opinions.
  No wonder journalists are one of the least respected sectors of our society second only to politicians.
  Why have editors at all?
  
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  February 2, 2023 3:45pm
  - kevn
    
    @Gravel… There is a role there in the media for Ai.
    
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    February 2, 2023 4:47pm
    - Mike
      
      AI has great potential to replace many jobs in areas like journalism and law whete simple rules may be applied to large volumes of information.
      
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      February 2, 2023 5:53pm
Taieri

Will Stuff and NZ Herald follow?

‘We Failed’: Danish Newspaper Apologizes For Its COVID Coverage

https://fee.org/articles/we-failed-danish-newspaper-apologizes-for-its-covid-coverage/
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February 2, 2023 2:57pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie from tennis just retweeted…..

It’s BRILLIANT!!
Watch it to the very LAST second….

Prue larfed sooo much she wet herself 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/ahsokamano/status/1620583604039335936
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February 2, 2023 3:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

James Shaw getting the Heave-Ho from Wellington Greens.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131126819/james-shaw-steps-aside-for-new-candidate-in-wellington-central

It’s damn hard being a pale, stale, male these days.
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February 2, 2023 6:09pm
- Ghost
  
  Wonder how long before they decide to shift Chlöe into leadership, I don’t think it will be long
  
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  February 2, 2023 7:05pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Another 20 something ” expert” with no world experience.
  
  Greens will have to install a Kindy to look after the MPs.
  
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  February 2, 2023 7:49pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  The boy is a very slow learner. It’s reached the stage where it seems he must get some kind of frisson of pleasure from being publicly humiliated!
  
  Wonder if he went to a private school?
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:55pm
Ghost

While some homeowners affected by flooding do have insurance, pressure is mounting on the Government to help those who are uninsured and have lost everything.

“We’ve got the lowest household median income in Auckland, so insurance is pretty much a ‘nice to have’,” said Harry Fatu Toleafoa, deputy chairperson of the Māngere-Ōtāhuhu Local Board.

He has been helping whānau and said the Civil Defence payments aren’t enough. Newshub can reveal more than 13,000 people have been granted $6.1 million so far.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/auckland-flooding-calls-for-government-to-give-extra-help-to-uninsured-families-who-ve-lost-everything.html
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February 2, 2023 7:07pm
- cmm
  
  Why buy groceries when there’s a food bank?
  Why get insurance when the state will do it for you?
  Why save for new tyres for the people mover when WINZ will help you from their hardship grant bucket?
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:20pm
Ghost

Teacher laughs about bringing “political unrest” in her school by pushing pronouns, showing up with purple hair, and mocking the bible

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1615133689100505089
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February 2, 2023 7:08pm
Maggie Pie

See where ‘The Horrid’ are reprting Her-Royal-Highness Princess Anne and her hubby will be visiting New Zealand this month.

Her first port of call will be…. PALMERSTON NORTH!

Honestly, what have they done that’s upset US so much? 😀
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February 2, 2023 7:31pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  She is here for the 100th Anniversary of the Royal NZ Corps of Signals and they are based at Linton.
  
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  February 2, 2023 7:48pm
  - Mike
    
    The Princess royal is the Colonel-in-Chief.
    
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    February 2, 2023 8:54pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying if you hold a Stoat up to your ear, you can hear what it sounds like to be attacked by a Stoat.
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February 2, 2023 8:14pm
- cmm
  
  I’ve heard than one before with a mongoose….
  But in that case it was you can hear screaming.
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:22pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  That sounds kind of surreal MP. He’s a stoner? 😃
  
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  February 2, 2023 8:26pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Weasels ripped my flesh:
    
    https://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2015/08/Weasels.jpg
    
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    February 2, 2023 9:14pm

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