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February 5, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 February 2023

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General Debate

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Yvette

Speaking to media after the forum, the prime minister said discussion centred around how iwi chairs are working with the Government on the “bread and butter issues” of housing, education and health, and the language around co-governance.

So it is now “the language around co-governance” – how we sell co-governance

Hipkins said “the breadth of our work programme as a Government” had contributed to issues communicating co-governance proposals.
“The more you’re doing, the more confusing for people it can be” for those without detailed knowledge of the specific co-governance proposals, which he said vary depending on the context.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/02/03/pm-welcomed-as-co-governance-on-agenda-at-iwi-chairs-forum/

In the accompanying video Tuku Morgan states “There is nothing mysterious about “3 Waters”, and it is all about pipes under the ground”

– but adds –

“We succumb to the attack-dogs of the National Party and ACT, as they fan the flames of racism and anti-Maori sentiment – and throw us under the bus – for the sake of keeping alive Three Waters”

– so it is more than just “pipes under the ground”

Then Hipkins forgets all the complexity he mentioned earlier and says “I love the phrase “mahi tahi” – working together.– ultimately that is what it is about”

“Mahi tahi” for “co-governance”
A terrific Ardernian slogan phrase – unbelievable – I had actually thought they couldn’t manage to reduce “co-governance” to a bumper sticker slogan
Although trivialising “co-governance”, it almost sounds “user friendly”

And it will fit better on protesters placards
Motu utu o mahi tahi – everyone should now know “motu” – nation
“Utu” from the 1983 Geoff Murphy film – “righting the balance – revenge”
Motu utu o mahi tahi – may need a little more work, to work, but you get its drift.
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February 5, 2023 8:02am
- kevn
  
  @Yvette… All just ‘bread and butter’ business.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:30am
- Gravelroad
  
  “We succumb to the attack-dogs of the National Party and ACT, as they fan the flames of racism and anti-Maori sentiment – and throw us under the bus – for the sake of keeping alive Three Waters”
  Says Mr Morgan.
  Unprofessional.
  School yard bullying stuff – poor me.
  As soon as they play the race card laced with gratuitous insults, their cause is compromised.
  I would have some respect for Mr Morgan if, instead of whinging , he explained how 3 waters is going to succeed at whatever it is designed to do.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:40am
  - Swifty
    
    Isn’t Morgan now supposed to be a neutral public servant now that he’s been appointed chair of the Northern and Auckland water entity?
    
    Is that the way we expect our neutral public servants to act? To speak?
    
    Will our news media climb into him like they’ve just done with Wayne Brown and his drongos statement?
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:09am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He’s the Chair of the Iwi Representative Group for Entity A.
      
      He is not CEO of Entity A – that is Jon Lamonte.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/three-waters-chief-executives-appointed-but-search-continues-for-one-more/X2TLVL42EZAF3HUWFLHLBH452A/
      
      Confusing?
      
      But that’s been the whole point of the 3- Waters obfuscation by this Labour Government.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:47am
      - Swifty
        
        Sorry, yes, Iwi Representative Group.
        
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        February 5, 2023 11:02am
- pdm
  
  Hey Chippie.
  
  Co Governance is still Co Governance whatever you call it.
  
  How thick are you and your Labour mates if you do not understand by now that Co Governance is abhorrent to almost all New Zealanders.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:43am
  - cmm
    
    They are not thick. They know the rebranding will work on a lot of very dumb people.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:32am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Those dumb people already vote dumb
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:42am
    - Tricati
      
      Correct – But what Hipkins needs to answer is when is he going to honour Ardern’s (Labours) commitment to discuss with the rest of NZ. All the Maori elite have had multiple meetings, but nothing for the rest of the country, other than suggesting we don’t understand the meaning of co-governance and now they are attempting to reframe it.
      When you see the likes of Julian Batchelor trying to get a meeting venue being cancelled, you know the élite don’t want any in-depth discussion, particularly over the intent of the Te Mana o Te Wai statements and the impact they will have on all New Zealanders.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:52am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The change in leadership is starting to show how weak and pathetic it really is, if they simply change the names, it will anger even more people
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Trying to rebrand it as “mahi tahi” is like putting lipstick on a pig; it still gives one groupo of New Zealanders an advantage over others on grounds of ethnicity. And it’s NOT racist to call this out, but lefties are good at playing the race card when they can’t win the argument.
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:58pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  The politicians who say citizens dont understand co-governance are liars. We understand it all right. We know is a massive transfer of wealth and power away from ALL citizens to a few Maori and non-Maori Elites.
  
  Its all about UTU. Its about making White Mother…… pay for the supposed sins of their ancestors. Its about turning all except the Maori and Non-Maori Elites into slaves to serve the Maori and Non-Maori Elites.
  
  My hope is that at some point Non-Maori will rise up and overthrow the Maori and Non-Maori Elites by whatever means are necessary.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:47am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    This “we” you speak of that knows and understands, seems more like “you” knowing little and being fearful of the other.
    
    My hope is that at some point you will throw off the cloak of ignorance and rise up to meet the challenge of the new reality in Aotearoa.
    
    “Wealth, power, utu, slaves, elites, sins and rebellion by violence.”
    
    Seems more like your own private fantasy than any public prediction…
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:05pm
  - Dougal10
    
    The census is coming up , if everyone ticks the maori box there won’t be anyone left to pay for this shitshow and it might die the death it deserves
    
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    February 5, 2023 2:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      You cam be fined $2,000 for giving false information
      
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      February 5, 2023 2:17pm
      - Dougal10
        
        But what is false information now days ,ie it is safe and effective . We will be your sole source of truth. The govt has left this census open to being the least honest and effective one yet, it will beat jimmys one hands down in that regard.
        
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        February 5, 2023 2:43pm
      - slightlyrighty
        
        So when you tick Gender, is that based on Biology or identity?
        
        Which Criteria is the Census going to use?
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:22pm
      - Ghost
        
        There are two questions, one is asking what your gender is, and the other is asking what your sex at birth was. With the explanation that gender is a persons social and Personal identity
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:38pm
      - Dougal10
        
        Sounds like it is going to be too complicated , no wonder some people will need help filling it out. Yet again another lefty cluster.
        
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        February 5, 2023 4:39pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Why not call it what it is: co government.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:25am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Dr Elizabeth Rata provided a more correct definition: Ethnonationalism
    
    This is the definition Seymour is using to voice his objections. In interview with Mana Maniapoto she got very testy with him calling it that, when it is being aspirational for Maori.
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:22pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Or aristocracy. Co-governance is just a new name for an old diseases so many of our ancestors died trying to eradicate.
      
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      February 5, 2023 3:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

One New Zealand Foundation Inc.
Queen Victoria’s Royal Charter dated the 16 November 1840 was our “true” Founding Document and “First” Constitution. This extremely important document has been overlooked for over 173 years. The Tiriti o Waitangi was never our Founding Document!
http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/articles/queen-victorias-royal-charter/queen-victorias-royal-charter-our-true-founding-document-and-first-constitution/

So, which is it? Why does Queen Victoria’s Royal Charter get buried?
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February 5, 2023 8:05am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  What happened to Wayne Mapps quick response posted earlier saying nothing to see here, the Charter only gives effect to the ToW which is the foundation document ?
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:28am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It’s down below all the other comments that have now appeared after being in moderation for a while.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:51am
slightlyrighty

Barry Soper has the inside word that the speed reduction campaign to 80 kph is on the scrapheap.

It’s been decided that such a move would reduce the electability of the Labour Government.

Lets pick that apart.

Now I do not believe that the effect on our road toll of a reduction is what the government says it would be. Idiots will still drive like idiots.

However, the government put this in, ostensibly, to save lives. So by removing it, are they actually now implying that it doesn’t matter if people die, so long as Labour gets re-elected?

Or did they actually realise that the speed limit policy itself was useless a road toll reduction measure?
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February 5, 2023 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  All part of the war on motorists .
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:48am
- CJames
  
  The telling point is whether they rescind the changes already made like Napier Taupo? If not, the policy is still there, just hidden. Ready to re-emerge after the election if the win. I’m certain the Greens will push for it.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:04am
Bridgenag

From Metron ….. Part 2 of What are we doing to our children?

Testing, lockdowns, masks, vaccines “were wholly unnecessary, did not work, were based on a failure to follow the science, and caused immense multifaceted harms.”

Nick Hudson, chair of Pandata, is equally scathing: he concludes that “doing nothing at all would have been a far better thing” and would have produced a far better outcome than was delivered, “certainly better than spending billions of dollars prioritising pandemic responses over other pressing healthcare concerns where the application of money would have immediate and long lasting benefits.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/metatron/p/what-are-we-doing-to-our-children?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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February 5, 2023 8:09am
Yvette

The Ardern legacy
Kindness is a style of action, which can certainly help, but if not accompanied by such action to address issues it soon depletes credibility.
And it has become generally-accepted wisdom that this government conspicuously lacks the ability to mobilise the public sector or the country-at-large to actually do stuff.
Even Covid was essentially a matter of committing the power of the state to stop things happening.

And another not widely acknowledged factor in her legacy was that she was incredibly lucky.
From delaying opening New Zealand to a covid world, when the virus had mutated to milder Omicrom, otherwise New Zealand Maori would have died like the Italian elderly, and Pascifika like the decimated Pacific Islanders and Hawaiians in Los Angeles. Only Omicron was very Lucky.
And turning a nasty attitude caught on an open mike, into a $100,100 sale of frame copy of her abuse, to benefit Cancer Society, was also incredibly lucky, and many other instances in between.

And now Labour is very lucky
With the change of Prime Minister they can pretend renewal, although it is just rearranging the deck chairs of ministers and policies – with both to be re-instated after the Election – it they are lucky with that
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February 5, 2023 8:11am
Surely Knott

Language is power and the definition of Conspiracy theorist is being changed.

Traditional definitions play it with a straight bat.

Oxford DICTIONARY – conspiracy theory n. the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties
Mirriam Webster DICTIONARY =- : a theory that
explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators also : a theory asserting that a secret of great importance is being kept from the public

But Wikipedia has added to the end of their definition of the word conspiracy theory “when other explanations are more probable.” This essentially erases the term for the action of conspiring leaving no actual term for describing powerful people conspiring. It is by wiki’s definition not probable that powerful people would conspire or meet, lobby or network to create change that might be negative or withhold information of great importance from the public. It simply is not probable and they are removing language to describe it.

WIKIPEDIA – A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy by powerful and sinister groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable.

Wiki’s definition is the way conspiracy theory is being used by media, as if a conspiracy of powerful people is by definition madness and untrue. When in fact through history and even recently there are many of examples of powerful people working together to withhold information or create an event that you might find negative. Eg. The Twitter files. When the FBI were advising social media firms to suppress information. Or the Russian disinformation scandal where they said hunter’s laptop didn’t exist and was Russian disinfo.

https://www.readersdigest.com.au/true-stories-lifestyle/12-crazy-conspiracy-theories-actually-turned-out-be-true
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February 5, 2023 8:21am
blue collar

Cooked in the kitchen once on Waitangi Day , great experience, great Marae , great people … the Māori do it well , they all pile in in a casual way , get a lot of work done while hving fun .
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February 5, 2023 8:22am
- Paulus
  
  I always thought that the Army provided all the food and the cooking at Waitangi.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:27am
  - blue collar
    
    Dunno about these days , 12 years ago it was done by the locals in the marae .
    It has a big commercial kitchen
    Trailer loads of food just rolled in from every part of the country ,
    People would do a stint n wander off , replaced by a willing helper , it just worked
    
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    February 5, 2023 1:00pm
Cassandra

The usual accusations of racism as we head towards Treaty day. How Hipkins can promote a racist law, his 3 Waters, by accusing those opposed to its racist provisions of racism is mystifying. Well, the more mystifying part is why our media don’t call him out on that. And the Waitangi Tribunal finds that the tribal chiefs did not cede sovereignty. As Seymour says, we need a definitive ruling on this, confirmed by a referendum.
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February 5, 2023 8:22am
Wayne Mapp

There is a very good reason why the Charter of 16 November 1840 is not the founding document. That is because it essentially executes the agreement contained within the Treaty of Waitangi. The Crown could not obtain sovereignty except by agreement of Maori. That agreement is the Treaty of Waitangi.

It is a bit like the purchase of a house. The essential document is the sales agreement between purchaser and vendor. Some time later the settlement of the purchase occurs when the actual transfer of title occurs. The transfer of title effectively executes the sales agreement between vendor and purchaser.
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February 5, 2023 8:33am
- septic skeptic
  
  It shouldn’t really matter Wayne. If the English text of TOW and the Charter are followed we have a sound basis for running the country as a democracy where all have equal rights regardless of ancestry. If the (somewhat dubious to say the least) current interpretations of the Maori version of TOW are followed we have a country permanently divided on ethnic lines. One where your political rights are dependent on your ancestry (and even more important your status within your tribe if you are Maori). This cannot be allowed to stand.
  
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  February 5, 2023 8:38am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It is my analysis. I consider that I am sufficiently well versed in constitutional law (I used to teach the subject) to have a better knowledge about this than One New Zealand Foundation.
    It is also a view that obviously shared by all the senior courts of New Zealand over the last 40 years, including the Privy Council. All refer to the Treaty, none to the proclamation.
    
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    February 5, 2023 9:28am
    - Taieri
      
      It is also a view that obviously shared by all the senior courts of New Zealand over the last 40 years, including the Privy Council. All refer to the Treaty, none to the proclamation.
      ————–
      
      And all that because a certain senior judge decided to discover a “partnership” clause written in an invisible ink.
      
      Those senior courts have quite a lot to answer for. Weren’t it senior judges in senior courts that convicted Arthur Allan Thomas? Or Peter Ellis?
      
      BTW: I applaud your modesty Dr Mapp…
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:54am
      - stiff cheese
        
        Was that judgment the moment the term ‘treaty partners’ came into vogue for referring to the Maori tribes?
        
        More accurately, they should be referred to as ‘co-signatories’.
        
        Funny to think that – if the intention was to have co-governance – THERE WAS NONE in the first hundred years after 1840! Why was that?
        
        You would think at least one prominent Maori of the time would have entered a complaint into the public record. Is there such a record? “Hey pakehas, you said we would govern together, but you lied!” … Was there a complaint of that nature? Maybe someone can point me to it…
        
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        February 5, 2023 11:16am
    - Nickc2
      
      Lawyers are not always correct in their determinations, submissions, or comments in general. Look at the number of Court Cases where verdicts and sentences have subsequently been overturned in NZ.
      IMO, Lawyers lie for a living!
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:59am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      It isn’t a legal issue, it is a political issue. The law is the servant of its people, not their master. It is quite obvious to the ordinary citizen what the ToW was intended to achieve no matter what activist judges want us to believe.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:08am
      - Nickc2
        
        Too true Alan!!
        
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        February 5, 2023 11:17am
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        The law is the servant of its people, not their master.
        _________________________
        
        Lawyers first duty is to uphold the integrity of the system.
        
        It serves itself and the masters who practise it first, the slaves and people, second.
        
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        February 6, 2023 11:49am
    - kowtow
      
      The courts once called it a “simple nullity”.
      
      And they could do again.
      
      Similarly we no longer live in an imperial,colonial context of Westminster acquiring tribal possessions lorded over by war mongering , slave owning , absolutists .
      
      No, we live in a liberal democracy where the most basic value we possess is the notion of one man one vote . And it would take only 51 % of the electorate to make of any past agreement and its undefined and ever growing “principles” the anachronism that it is.
      
      But for some very strange reason our Establishment Elites prefer chiefly tribalism over democracy.
      
      And as it’s Sunday, isn’t it very strange too how we blithely and happily proclaim the end of Church influence on our laws and society , and our secularity ( rightly) and yet the Elites want to embrace something even more alien to the majority.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:26am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Sorry, I got back to this late, but what Wayne is essentially saying is that the law trumps common sense. We see this in rugby where from time to time the TMO’s bizzare interpretation of the laws gets us an absurd result. But that’s just rugby. A game. Over in 80 minutes and we can talk a bout the next test in a week. The constitutional framework of the country is at stake. Are we going down the Apartheid path because some legal boffin won the debate in court? SERIOUSLY?
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:18pm
- Nickc2
  
  Is your post opinion or fact Wayne? If it’s the latter, please provide a link or similar to confirm.
  
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  February 5, 2023 8:43am
  - kowtow
    
    I think it’s called ‘argumentum ab auctoritate”.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:32am
    - Nickc2
      
      Oh no, not that old argument from an authority chestnut again?
      What is an authority other than a louder voice than others?
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:22am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  “The Crown could not obtain sovereignty except by agreement of Maori.”
  
  Really? During the reign of Queen Victoria, the Crown obtained sovereignty over British India. There were 6 colonies on the Australian continent. There were 17 in Africa. To my knowledge, the Crown did not enter into any Treaty with the folk already there.
  
  The “Crown” could simply have used armed forces to assert control and proclaim sovereignty.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:23am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    By 1840, conquest was no longer seen as a valid way to acquire sovereignty.
    
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    February 5, 2023 9:30am
    - Widogast Corwin
      
      Great Britain seemed to be happy to kill hundreds of thousands of ‘natives’ who got in the way of colonisers well after 1840. Here are just two examples.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zulu_War
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:50am
    - kowtow
      
      Heard of the Opium Wars ?
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:54am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      In the reading I have done, you are correct Wayne. The British forces in NZ were not large enough to win a long war, and with the difficulty of terrain (nullifying the transport of cannon), found extremely difficult (and costly in human terms) to breach fortified Pa’s. In fact, the Maori were very good defensive fighters.
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:57am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        What has that got to do with the legality of conquest which certainly was the basis of Maori land ownership before colonisation and British law.
        
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        February 5, 2023 10:19am
      - Swifty
        
        That’s a good point.
        
        Why when Europeans first sailed to these shores was one of the first things they noticed was that all Maori lived in very close vicinity to heavily fortified Pa?
        
        Snigger.
        
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        February 5, 2023 10:51am
      - kowtow
        
        That raises an important issue .
        
        Colonial sovereignty could never have been enforced , in the circumstances of the day , without more than a little help from the Maoris themselves.
        
        They seemed very happy to march with Johnny Redcoat establishing the Queen’s authority ……
        
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        February 5, 2023 11:55am
      - Jack5
        
        Re the 9.57 post of In Vino Veritas: ” ….The British forces in NZ were not large enough to win a long war …
        
        The British knew the type of resistance they faced. Britain didn’t send top line regiments to NZ such as Guards or Highlanders. They didn’t send cavalry or their “yeomen” mounted infantry.
        
        For guerrilla skirmishing, colonials organised under the likes of von Tempsky, and they fought beside those Maori who sided with the colonial government and the British.
        
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        February 5, 2023 12:57pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      A cynical choice of dates, Wayne. A decade earlier and you might have to explain the musket wars.
      
      There is more b.s. in the ToW industry than at Show Day.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:15am
    - Cassandra
      
      Only by the Church Missionary Society which influenced the British government. Italy, Germany,Russia, Japan,China, France etc had no such qualms.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:45am
    - Swifty
      
      “ By 1840, conquest was no longer seen as a valid way to acquire sovereignty.”
      
      It was for many Maori Wayne.
      
      In fact in 1835 when Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga invaded the Chathams, butchered or enslaved the Moriori inhabitants and proclaimed “they they now owned the island and the Moriori were now their vassals”, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga chiefs specifically said that this was all perfectly fine conduct, it comformed to their long-standing custom and tikanga and that Paheka should stay out of it.
      
      That’s right. Genocide, invasion, widespread butchery, torture and enslavement was permitted by ‘tikanga’. The Law’ according to Margaret Mutu.
      
      All perfectly fine and acceptable.
      
      What’s even more perverse is that Labour Minister Willie Jackson who lectures us all constantly about how Pakeha are racist and guilty of all sorts of sins is in fact Ngati Tama. The very tribe responsible for the only acts in NZ’s recorded history which would qualify as genocide – the planned and deliberate, orchestrated liquidation of an entire ‘race’ of people and under the most barbaric and merciless circumstances including staking masses of women and children on the beach to die slowly over the following days – and all in order to take possession of Moriori land and taonga.
      
      And we’re supposed to not notice this? Pretend it never happened? Give Maori a pass while non-Maori are held to standards vastly higher than existed at the time?
      
      If the average New Zealander was fully knowledgeable about the way pre-contact Maori treated other Maori with massacres, butchery, invasions, rape, enslavement not only routine but absolutely condoned as ‘this is our way, our customs’ they would have a vastly different view of modern day Maori victimhood shenanigans.
      
      In fact I’ve read on numerous occasions how many, many Maori chiefs and their people pleaded for British governance and sovereignty so that the warfare, butchery and enslavement might stop.
      
      Do you think this might be taught in our schools in the new NZ history curriculum?
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:46am
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        All this talk of Maori and race or genocide in the past, happened in the past. It’s not like they’re still doing it.
        
        Your people on the other hand, the white race of Europeans did all that and are still doing it in Russia to Ukraine.
        
        So it seems that while it was our custom then, it is still yours now…
        
        And we’re supposed to not notice this? Pretend it isn’t happening? Give Europeans a pass while they commit massacres, butchery, invasions, rape ?
        
        Shame about the Moriori. Another Pasifikan tribe who lost out to another Pasifikan tribe. Such was life in pre colonial days.
        
        By all means, teach the truth about colonialism and oppression. Teach it from the perspective of global history and don’t skip the bits where you’ll squirm for what your people did and still do…
        
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        February 5, 2023 12:26pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        @Black, you want us to forget about your past but pay reparations for ours?
        
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        February 5, 2023 2:15pm
      - Swifty
        
        While it’s his usual one-sided drivel, his hopeless rearguard actions, Blackie raises a couple of points worthy of note.
        
        Firstly he, presumably unwittingly, concedes that colonisation brought to an end the routine invasion, butchery and enslavement present in pre-contact Maori life.
        
        Chalk one up for the palagi.
        
        Secondly he correctly points out the terrible potential lurking in the greatest force of destruction known in human history – that of the European male.
        
        Does Blackie think that palagi/pakeha won’t eventually tire of being endlessly abused and in modern times with total impunity? Constantly blamed for the sins of their ancestors while their accusers are not held to the same standard (as Blackie has done yet again, above).
        
        Does he think that palagi will have endless patience as our so-called leaders, without any forewarning or campaigning on these issues, ram through racially discriminatory laws privileging some on the basis of their ancestry?
        
        Does he think palagi will accept without complaint the destruction and perversion of the most basic element of a democratic society; that people have the ability to both appoint and retire their leaders through public elections – rather than have them appointed by tribal elites and with no ability to get rid of them?
        
        Has he ever considered whether palagi have a breaking point where they will start to violently resist the debasement of our democracy in this way? Where they will have had enough of the routine slurring and abuse that seems so ‘flavour of the day’ these days by many of our academics, politicians and so-called community leaders and blamed daily for everything supposedly ‘wrong’ with Maori and Pacific people; every inequity, every murder, every robbery, every early death, every failed aspiration.
        
        While I, a European male, will be the last to pick up a weapon and I would hope the first to counsel peace and dialogue, as Blackie points out, I can’t say the same for all other Europeans.
        
        If this racial discrimination continues, this constant racist abuse, this constant and seemingly increasing racial blame culture coupled with the seizure of our democracy by unelected tribal elites ably abetted by some of our vested interest academics and politicians and it all explodes – then don’t say you weren’t warned.
        
        As Blackie hints at, we’re not completely civilised. No humans are. We have a thin veneer of reasonableness, civility and patience but it is a veneer that can be quickly ripped off to expose terrible, base instincts.
        
        While twenty years ago I never would have ever expected to say this – I think we are heading to violent civil war in this country. And not just over the Maori/Pakeha issue, I would also point to the massive expansion of governmental control and interference in our lives. The fact that the slave has now become the master. That we have increasingly become playthings of, generally left-wing, politicians in some grand social experiment.
        
        Well fuck that.
        
        I can think of few more noble causes than fighting for our independence as people, free from increasingly totalitarian politicians who, always in the name of ‘safety’ and ‘well-being’ exert greater and greater control over us, who casually remove our freedoms with ever greater frequency. Who label us as Nazis, spit on-and curse us for merely asking a few basic questions.
        
        And if war does come – then it will be a situation where there is a vast majority versus a tiny, tiny minority. And I’d argue that a significant majority of Maori would side with the majority as they too know this is just a tribal elite power play from which they’ll never see any benefit. Same for most Pacific folk too.
        
        And how do we think that scenario will end up?
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:31pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Hey BWAV, you know ‘ Slav’ is the origin of the word ‘Slave’?
        Those North African were into it big time. Far more white slaves from the Slavic countries than there ever were from Africa in Jamaica or the US
        And the British died putting an end to it.
        You should have stayed at school.
        To be fair, 22 is a bit old for the 5th Form though.
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:42pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Wiping out competing tribes when the opportunity arose was the norm pre-European (same as all stone age cultures throughout history). Eg Ngai Tahu were invaders from the Bay of Plenty who wiped out previous South Island Maori in the 18th century.
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:47pm
      - kowtow
        
        AOR
        
        Coastal communities of the British Isles were also vulnerable to slavery from North Africa.
        
        “The sack of Baltimore, the only recorded instance of a slaving raid by corsairs in Ireland, was part of a wider pattern across Europe, encompassing not only the entire Mediterranean region but also the Atlantic seaboard as far north as Iceland. Slave-raiding of Christians by Muslim corsairs became common from the late fifteenth century onwards, coinciding with the expulsion of the Moors from Spain.”
        
        https://www.historyireland.com/from-baltimore-to-barbary-the-1631-sack-of-baltimore/
        
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        February 5, 2023 5:11pm
    - Simon
      
      “By 1840, conquest was no longer seen as a valid way to acquire sovereignty.”
      
      Lol – Constitutional expert.
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:54am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        And then the Brits proceded to do so via the “NZ wars”. Laughable.
        
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        February 5, 2023 2:18pm
    - Sparrow
      
      “No longer seen as valid” Others have commented on the naivety of this statement I would just like to add where in your research of the British Empire did you find such a statement ?
      Possibly could be applied to New Zealand as the British government at the time never intended for it to become a colony but events overtook this position. The British Empire continued to grow and locals certainly did not put out a “welcome mat” I presume you have read “Scramble for Africa”
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:55am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        Cawnpore, June 1857.
        
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        February 5, 2023 1:42pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        There is a huge amount of historical research on this point. Anyone who takes a serious interest in imperial history will be aware of it.
        The British, and other colonial powers entered into numerous treaties in Africa and the Middle East during the nineteenth century. They didn’t just invade nations and tribes, though subsequently they might have enforced the rights acquired by treaty by war. The Zulu wars for instance, or the New Zealand wars.
        
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        February 5, 2023 7:27pm
- Unity
  
  It is obvious Wayne Mapp knows little of our true history held in the New Zealand, Australian and American Archives, plus the British Parliamentary Papers, but this is not new for a politician, they are paid to mislead us.
  
  There is no way the tangata Maori could have had “legal sovereignty” over New Zealand, a fact ruled by Chief Justice, Sir James Prendergast in 1877. “So far indeed as that instrument (The Treaty of Waitangi) purported to cede the sovereignty it must be regarded as a ‘simple nullity’. No political body existed capable of making cession of sovereignty”, A ruling that has never been over ruled for obvious reasons!
  
  Wayne overlooks the fact, New Zealand was placed under the dependency of New South Wales by a Royal Charter issued by “Victoria by the Grace of God” under “The Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland” on 30 July 1839, with the Proclamation being read at Waitangi by Lt. Governor Hobson at Waitangi on 30 January 1840, one week before the Treaty was signed.
  
  Britain could not have placed New Zealand under the dependency of New South Wales if the tangata Maori had “legal sovereignty over New Zealand”. Fact!
  
  While the Secretary of Colonies, Lord Normanby did not know whether the tangata Maori had sovereignty over New Zealand, Rev Henry Williams, who had lived in New Zealand amongst the tangata Maori, knew they did not and could not have had sovereignty over New Zealand and changed “sovereignty” to “government/kawanatanga” when he translated the final draft into the tangata Maori language. He had also used “kawanatanga” for “government” when he translated the Declaration of Independence in 1835. Kawana = governor. Tangata = people. Governor’s people = government.
  
  The Treaty of Waitangi was mainly to satisfy the Clapham Sect, a prominent group in England at the time who campaigned for the protection of indigenous peoples from colonial exploitation. James Stephen, the Undersecretary for Colonies was a very strong supporter of the Clapham Sect had drafted the initial instructions for the Treaty before handing it over to Lord Normandy to give to Captain William Hobson before he left for New Zealand.
  
  It asked the tangata Maori to give up their government/kawanatanga and in return they would become British Subjects with the same rights as the people of England. No More, no less. This was the only time Britain had entered into a treaty of this nature with any country it colonized.
  
  Queen Victoria did not have the power or authority to give the tangata Maori any special rights or privileges not enjoyed by all the people of England in the Treaty of Waitangi, and none were given. Fact!
  
  While New Zealand could not remain under the dependency of New South Wales as the natives of Australia did not have the same rights as the tangata Maori, Britain had to separate New Zealand from New South Wales dependency and this was achieved by another Royal Charter/Letters Patent dated 16 November 1840 issued by “Victoria by the Grace of God” under “The Great Seal of the United kingdom of great Britain and Ireland”.
  
  See, http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/queen-victorias-two-royal-charters-letters-patent/.
  
  Our true Founding Document and first Constitution. Fact!
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:53pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    There is no argument to be made for stupidity or ignorance other than you don’t know any better…
    
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    February 5, 2023 1:06pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Insults when you have no argument to make.
      
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      February 5, 2023 2:21pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        So many arguments to make I couldn’t decide which one, so thought better of making any.
        
        Sometimes stupid, in all its stupid glory, needs to be left hanging for all to see.
        
        A testament unto itself…
        
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        February 6, 2023 11:15am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    You seriously think I have not done a huge amount of reading and research on this topic?
    Not subscribing to the One NZ Foundation viewpoint hardly means that I am not informed.
    
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    February 5, 2023 7:30pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Wayne, for god’s sake wake up! You are trying to lead us towards Apartheid because some guy 180 years ago might have got a word or two wrong in the Maori translation. The intent was clear. And agreed. And noble.
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:41pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Maori had little to no idea what they were agreeing to.
        
        It was never their intent to give up sovereignty in exchange for becoming the lowest class of British subject.
        
        The clear and noble intent by the British was always to disposess Maori of their land, culture and subjugate/assimilate them into the Empire as a colony, then disenfranchise them at the polls and in government using apartheid style laws.
        
        And if you don’t believe that then explain Parihaka for instance. Actions speak louder than words, written in treaty or otherwise.
        
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parihaka
        
        That’s the ol’ Victorian era playbook Russia is still using in Ukraine. Or perhaps you think the Russkies, like Victorian era British, have noble intent also ?
        
        How is Russian invading Ukraine any different than what The kiwi/brits did in Parihaka.
        
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        February 6, 2023 11:42am
vand

Which Maori agreed? Not all representatives (chiefs) signed the Treaty. Isn’t it void for uncertainty so therefore it’s a free for all?
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February 5, 2023 8:38am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Tuhoe for one didn’t sign vand. And they received a settlement under the Treaty no less, of around $170m. In terms of the Urewera National Park, new legislation at the time was supposed to ensure that the land was managed to an internationally accepted standard for national parks with no effect on public access. The Lake bed is owned by the Tūhoe Waikaremoana Trust Board and the Wairoa Waikaremoana Trust Board, leased to the Crown and managed by the Department of Conservation (also with no effect on public access). And we all know how that has turned out.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:04am
  - kowtow
    
    Which just goes to prove that the gurnermunt of the day just makes it up as they go along.
    
    Like the non existant , undefined “principles”.
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:51am
    - MCōs
      
      “gurnermunt”
      What sort of word is that?
      
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      February 5, 2023 4:55pm
      - Keith White
        
        A word that describes the current mob quite well.
        
        5 1
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        February 5, 2023 9:31pm
cas

There’s one good thing about the leadership transferring to Chris Hipkins. At least he doesn’t mangle his vocabulary.
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February 5, 2023 8:39am
- cmm
  
  The best thing about Hipkins is that he has no sacred cows to hide behind. He has no sexism/ homophobia/ racist cards to play.
  The ginger card isn’t strong enough (though, IMHO, it should be).
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:37am
  - Gravelroad
    
    @cmm
    “The best thing about Hipkins is that he has no sacred cows to hide behind.”
    Might have to disagree with you there.
    Mr Hipkins’ sacred cow is undoubtedly the Labour Party.
    The advancement and protection of the Party is, and will always be, Mr Hipkins top (and probably only) priority – hiding or not.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He is going to mangle the vulgar policies, simply by giving cogovernance a Māori mane, just as weak and as pathetic as Ardern.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:59am
Prince

I am interested in the increased emphasis on advertising and encouraging Maori to complete the Census, rather than just New Zealanders in general.
What purpose does this serve ? Last Census was a shambles, with Minister James Shaw being on holiday – in retrospect a forewarning of the new Government’s incompetence.
Anyway, if, as the ads suggest, Maori participation will assist their funding, does that mean an increase in Maori proportion of the population, say from 17% to 20%, would that result in more funding, under our new apartheid Government structures, to Maori Health, Maori Education, Maori Welfare, arts & culture, housing, transport, broadcasting etc ?
Also, can I self-identify as Maori with no supporting evidence ? After all, as Shakespeare* said, it is a wise man who knows his own father.

* Apologies in advance by those who are triggered by references to the Great Coloniser.
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February 5, 2023 8:46am
- Inandout
  
  Prince, a KFC voucher may assist the completion of the form. Well it worked with the great vaccine scam.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:34am
- Paulus
  
  I am concerned that Maori wish to conduct the census in their respect manually by going to their people and helping them complete the forms.
  Good if done correctly as they have not been very good of recent times
  This in itself gives me a worry like the USA Machine counts and infilling and delivery of the completed and counted forms.
  We assume that all Maori are able to be found to complete the census or will some just be found ?
  It is estimated that there are something like 14.000 unregistered/overstayers people in New Zealand – most in Auckland.
  I see that the Minister has said that they can claim all the benefits of those already here in respect of the services available.
  Presumably all those without or or not enough insurance will be covered by the taxpayers – assume it will be in the billions too.
  Votes matter and it is easy to spend other people’s money
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:40am
  - Jack5
    
    Paulus’s … by going to their people and helping them complete the forms.
    
    In no way can a census be neutral and valid if one group is allowed to “help” people complete their forms.
    
    “You heard there was a great-great grandmother who was part-Maori – then you are Maori” — (even if it’s just possible, and only one sixteenth).
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:10am
    - Paulus
      
      Winston Peters said recently in a good speech that you could be 1/412 to be a Maori on the Maori Roll.
      
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      February 5, 2023 1:50pm
Southern Raider

Herald has article about how FIFA World Cup starts in July and how woefully underprepared NZ is.

This is going to be a global embarrassment for NZ because once again Labour is asleep at the wheel
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February 5, 2023 8:48am
- Cinematic
  
  Wouldn’t worry about it. It’s not the proper WC.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:24am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Might be the womens but still a massive TV audience and large number of travelling fans. It’s a big opportunity for NZ to make some dollars and promotion. However most of the fans will struggle to get to the games, find somewhere to stay or be able to eat out.
    
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    February 5, 2023 1:56pm
- pdm
  
  If NZ Soccer run th upcoming World Cup the same way they are running the change of men’s coach the tournament is going to be a disaster of epic proportions.
  
  Makes me wonder if NZ Soccer is under Co-Governance.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:25am
  - oldfella
    
    NZ FOOTBALL, pdm. Soccer? That’s what American’s play. 😉
    Agree about the men’s coach. Bring back Danny Hay.
    And talking about co-governance…
    https://maorifootball.co.nz/
    Who knew?
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:30am
    - Cassandra
      
      Soccer here. Rugby FOOTBALL Union.
      
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      February 5, 2023 10:47am
      - Mike
        
        NZ Rugby dropped the words ‘football’ and ‘union’ from their name, and ethos, some time ago.
        
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        February 5, 2023 6:13pm
KH

Wayne Mapp. – Nobody gives a toss Wayne about the sales and purchase agreement once the title is settled. The Title is the core item. It’s the big thing we hang onto
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February 5, 2023 8:57am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Quite a few sales agreements contain ongoing obligations. These can be enforced through the courts.
  
  Yes, the Crown did acquire sovereignty under article 1, but that did not mean the Crown could ignore the Article 2 ongoing obligations. Just about all treaty litigation over the last 40 years has been about that. No point railing against the fact that these obligations exists. That boat sailed decades ago.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:37am
  - Cinematic
    
    Maybe 1,000 people give a toss about the Treaty in NZ. 99% of that 1,000 odd are in it for the $.
    
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    February 5, 2023 9:51am
  - Taieri
    
    No point railing against the fact that these obligations exists.
    ————-
    
    Indeed they do. But only because a whole industry has been created over the years. This industry is recession -proof since for many people involved it’s their daily bread and butter.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:01am
    - Dodger
      
      Liked the last four words of your post Taieri.
      Where have I heard the last 3?
      
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      February 5, 2023 12:17pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Of course there is a point if they are creating ongoing entitlement, racism and division.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:21am
  - David Lenny
    
    Yes, article 2 created obligations, but what exactly those obligations were in 1840 is to some extent a matter of dispute, and even more so when complicated by the immediate pre-1840 inter-tribal wars with all the confusion over land ownership they created, and in the 21st century further complicated by the apparent inconsistency of some ‘principles’ of the second article with the equality provisions of the third article, and complicated still more by 180 years of intermarriage, urbanisation, democratic development and, to some extent, de-tribalisation.
    
    These are political issues as much as legal issues, and courts can get things wrong.
    
    Incidentally, a question for treaty worshippers: do you think the pre-emption clause in article 2 should be restored, and if so, applied to freehold land held privately by individual Maoris?
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:32am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      There is no evidence whatever that the 1940 British Crown had any intent to create or implement the recently invented Principles of the ToW.
      
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      February 5, 2023 3:12pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Human Rights Commission has a new take on the Treaty. For a boat that’s sailed it seems to be taking up a lot of wharf.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:49am
    - Jack5
      
      The Human Rights Commission isn’t a working ship and that’s why it’s still at the Karl Marx memorial wharf.
      
      It’s a hostel-hulk hosting mentally frail Leftists and Wokies.
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:16am
      - Taieri
        
        Karl Marx memorial wharf
        ————–
        
        Marx doesn’t deserve it. But Comrades Stalin and Mao do…
        
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        February 5, 2023 12:27pm
  - Local Miller
    
    Actually you are wrong about on going obligations of the sales agreement. If this is where you have these details then you are stuffed. Once the settlement date is passed and the sale has been settled, it’s the LINZ documents and the related easement documents that matter.
    This from someone who is currently going through the process of subdividing and selling a property. While the sales agreement sets out a lot of conditions, it is only the condition of sale and is irrelevant once the property has been sold. All the easements, rights of access, etc are all in the LINZ and related legal records.
    
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    February 5, 2023 8:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Michael Bassett writes of our fawning media and its very selective memory for reporting.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/michael-bassett-our-media-in-election-year

I knew of Titiwhai Harawira’s jailing for assault of a mental patient, but I’d never read anything of her multiple shop-lifting convictions.

Bassett asks some very pertinent questions:

Didn’t it occur to any journalist to question whether adulating Titiwhai might be passing the wrong message to today’s young people? And what about the Prime Minister’s minders? Why did they fail to remind him that his solicitude for the old stirrer might be misunderstood by those who respect law and order? Not to have been more careful surely runs the risk that Hipkins will be seen as favouring one standard of conduct for everyone else, and a lower one for Maori?
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February 5, 2023 8:58am
- Matt Long
  
  Shop lifting, benefit fraud, violence and gang affiliation all necessary to be lionised by regressives.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:41am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Shop lifting, benefit fraud, violence and gang affiliation all necessary to be lionised by regressives…
    ______________
    …just another day in the hood!
    
    6 3
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    February 5, 2023 1:16pm
Ruahine

Welcome to Maori Health.
Such a successful outcome.
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February 5, 2023 9:03am
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  As a wise old kaumatua once said…
  
  Live long and prosper!
  
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  February 5, 2023 1:16pm
Nickc2

Is he or isn’t he (the PM that is) going to speak on New Zealand’s Day at the Waitangi Treaty Grounds?

1. Will he or won’t he address NZ’s greatest theft of all time (3Waters)?
2. Will he or won’t he address the greatest con of all time being contemplated for NZ (Co-Governance)?

If he does speak, what should he address and why?
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February 5, 2023 9:19am
- pdm
  
  NIck2
  
  New Zealand Day – now there is a reminder of a good thing binned.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:49am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He has told Māori co governance will be given a Māori name, job done.
  
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  February 5, 2023 11:03am
  - Nickc2
    
    His Govt gave Maori Names to:
    
    Crown Law Office (Te Tari Ture o te Karauna)
    Department of Conservation (Te Papa Atawhai)
    Department of Corrections (Ara Poutama Aotearoa)
    Department of Internal Affairs (Te Tari Taiwhenua) …
    Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (Te Tari o te Pirimia me te Komiti Matua)
    Education Review Office (Te Tari Arotake Matauranga)
    Housing NZ (Kainga Ora)
    Ministry for Children (Oranga Tamariki)
    To name a few.
    
    Look how they’ve become roaring successes since so named and staffed with Maori Academics and Labour Party hangers-on. NOT
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:37am
    - Jack5
      
      Did apartheid-era South Africa rename all its government departments in Afrikaans?
      
      7 2
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      February 5, 2023 12:22pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Which South African apartheid era are you talking about, the current one under Black Rule or the one under de Klerk?
        
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        February 5, 2023 12:34pm
      - mawm
        
        Jack – yes. South Africa had 2 official languages and both appeared on official documents. But when speaking one language only the name in that language was used. Also when they implemented the disastrous “Bantustan” policy the so-called independent states used the language of the group assigned independence.
        
        The June 16th riots that set SA alight began as a protest by black students for being forced to do subjects like mathematics in Afrikaans.
        
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        February 5, 2023 1:47pm
  - kowtow
    
    George Orwell never saw that one coming.
    
    We’ve had the Podium of Truth , but under this regime Hipkins is now Te Big Bro , running a ministry of truth , redefining meanings and words, hiding behind a translation.
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:48am
- MCōs
  
  Rob Muldoon changed the name back to Waitangi Day not long after he became PM about fifty years ago.
  Norm Kirk had renamed it to NZ Day.
  Keep up.
  
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  February 5, 2023 5:05pm
David Lenny

Have you all submitted a response to the Natural and Built Environment Bill, due today?

This Bill is as bad as 3 Waters, and for the same reasons – it divides NZers into first and second class citizens on racial lines with differing degrees of built in power and influence, and creates more costly, unaccountable and undemocratic bureaucracy.

As usual, Peter Winsley (no, autocomplete, I did not want to write ‘Wensleydale’, despite your repeated insistence) provides a concise and informative critique.

https://winsleys.wordpress.com/2023/02/02/do-we-really-need-a-racialised-environment-and-resource-management-system/
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February 5, 2023 9:21am
- Jack5
  
  Thank you, David Lenny. The outline of the bill is well worth reading. The link is below.
  
  This is from the purposes of the bill:
  
  The NBE Bill requires all persons exercising powers and performing functions and duties under it to “give effect” to the principles of te Tiriti o Waitangi, as is the case under the Conservation Act 1987.
  
  The Bill also aims to provide iwi, hapu, and Maori with opportunities to participate at all levels of the Resource Management system.
  
  Among other matters, the Bill will provide for opportunities such as:
  
  – providing for proactive monitoring of te Tiriti performance by a National Maori Entity:
  
  – decomplicating the use of current tools within the Resource Management Act …
  
  – providing for a minimum of two Maori appointed members on regional planning committees , out of a minimum committee membership of six.
  
  The bill:
  
  https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0186/latest/d496511e2.html?search=sw_096be8ed81cc5fed_National Maori Entity_25_se&p=1&sr=0
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/who-is-breaching-the-treaty-maori-or-the-crown-dr-john-robinson/

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Breaking-Views-John-Robinson-Escape-the-guilt-trap-who-really-broke-the-Treaty.pdf
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February 5, 2023 9:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The claim that the Greens are opposed to privatisation is smoke and
  mirrors, a diversion and a con designed to misdirect public attention
  away from what is going on. The Three Waters legislation takes all
  those resources out of public control and gives effective control, that
  key feature of ownership, to an undefined Maori organisation. That is
  privatisation in all but name.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:46am
  - Taieri
    
    The claim that the Greens are opposed to privatisation
    ————
    
    But of course they are. In this particular case only though. Otherwise, The Green Party of Aotearoa is a well known and true champion of free enterprise and private ownership. Just the other day one of its MP’s spoke on the necessity to freeze rents. No doubt with an intention to encourage the renters to invest thus saved money in productive enterprises.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:34am
  - Nickc2
    
    It’s also THEFT by another name!
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wow. Dr John Robinson has a lot going on in that post.
  How many here will read it to the end?
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:05am
- Jimbob
  
  Ardern has kicked a bees nest of crapy laws and co-governance, left the building. Hipkins has the hospital pass, and more importantly the next government will have to sort out the structural and financial mess New Zealand has become.
  This is a nightmare.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:05am
  - Paulus
    
    Hasn’t Robertson gone quiet and faded into ignomy ?
    Can’t wait to get out !
    Told he doesn’t like his new mate the Prime Minister having the job he would love to have had, in different circumstances not of his making.
    
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    February 5, 2023 10:45am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Keats hood ‘tis a nightmare for Hipkins, Iwi elites have him by the ginga short and curlies
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:05am
Rusty

If co-governance/He Puapua goes ahead every Nzer will be paying a rent to them for living here.

Surely all Nzers (Pakeha, Maori, PI, Asian etc) are sensible enough to know co-governance is a scam and not about equality at all (Maori already has this)
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February 5, 2023 10:06am
- Paulus
  
  Nah ! New Zealander are too complacent to do anything about it – this is a common trait “she’ll be right”.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:46am
  - kowtow
    
    In addition to that there’s the “trade off”
    
    An awful lot of NZers , including folk on resident’s visas will consider that Labour/Green is their best bet ,financially , as they are beneficiaries of left wing munificence .
    
    The constitution can be rubbished , the state grows and more and more people beholden to it.
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:42am
- Swifty
  
  Please try to keep up rusty.
  
  Equality is so 20th Century.
  
  Now it’s all about ‘equity’ an entirely different beast.
  
  The goalposts have moved and will continue to move as rust never sleeps and progressivism never tires.
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:58am
  - Rusty
    
    @Swifty.
    
    This is the 21st century and you spell my name beginning with a lower case ‘r’?
    
    Joking aside – Personally I don’t think most Nzers know what the word equity means but equality they do.
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:56pm
    - Swifty
      
      You’re quite right, my apologies Rusty.
      
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      February 5, 2023 1:17pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Main thing is they are simply changing the name, hollow man Hipkins is being seen right through already
  
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  February 5, 2023 11:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You are getting close Rusty. Think silent Coup and everything falls into place.
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Jacinda Ardern has been hailed as “Great Communicator”, but in my mind she was an accomplished obfuscator.

Not a great obfuscator though….
I’ll leave that title to many of the folk who play with the political translations of Te Reo into English.

It wasn’t until I read this article that I realised what transpires…. A married academic couple speak Te Reo to each other. One person is Maori, the other is Pakeha.

For us, even though we converse with each other every day in te reo Māori, one of us speaks Māori and the other doesn’t.

Those of us who are not Maori will never be able to see through the obfuscation mist of co-governance/ kawanatanga/ Matauranga Maori/ etc unless there is some agreement to tie specific meanings to a word.

https://theconversation.com/a-growing-number-of-non-maori-new-zealanders-are-embracing-learning-te-reo-but-theres-more-to-it-than-language-198154
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February 5, 2023 10:21am
- Taieri
  
  “Alison Jones, a Pākehā scholar in Indigenous education, notices how the demand by non-Māori to have te reo echoes the colonising demand to have Māori land.”
  ——————–
  
  Colonising demand to have te reo…
  
  I like this one. Very much. Professor Alison Jones is a gem of a very rare quality indeed. I wonder if she ever reads what she’s written? With an understanding of course…
  
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  February 5, 2023 10:30am
  - Jack5
    
    Jones is an academic in education and social work at Auckland University’s Te Puna Wananga.
    
    This is “the School of Maori and Indigenous Education within the Faculty of Education and Social Work.”
    
    Auckland University says Te Puna Wananga staff and students are committed to the promotion of Maori tikanga (customs), reo (language) and matauranga (knowledge). We have a kaupapa Maori (philosophy), “which underpins all our [its] research and teaching”.
    
    But if it wants New Zealanders to kowtow to Maori for being allowed to learn and speak Maori, doesn’t that mean Maori should also be grateful to the British and to White New Zealanders for bringing to Maori the great English language, the world lingua franca?
    
    A pretty uneven swap. On one hand, the English language, spoken by 1.27 billion people, and the language world trade, diplomacy, finance, science, medicine, entertainment, and general communications. On the other hand a remote indigenous language spoken by about 0.0025 per cent of the world’s people.
    
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    February 5, 2023 11:31am
    - Taieri
      
      Auckland University says Te Puna Wananga staff and students are committed to the promotion of Maori tikanga (customs), reo (language) and matauranga (knowledge).
      —————-
      
      I’d have thought that the purpose of a university is
      “(…)to be the guardian of reason, inquiry and philosophical openness, preserving pure inquiry from dominant public opinions(…)”.
      
      So, the critical enquiry into “tikanga”, “reo” and “matauranga” by all means, but “promotion”?…
      
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      February 5, 2023 11:50am
- Surely Knott
  
  Allison says, the ” The learning of te reo Māori by non-Māori has become cool.”
  
  (Um yes the govt literally ran a mass campaign called it’s cool to korero.)
  
  “Growing numbers of non-Māori are enrolled in te reo courses”
  “demand by non-Māori to have te reo echoes the colonising demand to have Māori land.”
  
  (This is Typical and she’s right it does echo other Maori issues because. As usual we see elite whites pushing division by claiming other whites are not having a relationship with Maori culture correctly. )
  
  (Second, She’s an academic so where are her stats. What rate are Maori taking up the language?
  
  “Several authors have commented on this phenomenon of non-Māori enthusiasm for te reo Māori and Māori knowledge,”
  
  Um not exactly hard data. Allison is a Pakeha academic at the School of Māori and Indigenous Education, University of Auckland.
  
  Maybe some don’t want to learn it at a university.
  
  But Hoani Waititi School the Maori immersion school in Waitakere is extremely popular and I believe has a waiting list.
  
  Finally academia and governments are the ones pushing people of other cultures to learn te reo to advance their careers.
  
  I’m sick of being told I’m a bad person by white virtue signalling academics. I applaud anyone who learns Te Reo for the right reasons.
  
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  February 5, 2023 11:56am
  - I remember when
    
    The non-Maori population becoming proficient in Maori at exam/qualification level, has allowed some non-Maori to coat tail into academic institutions.
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘ Obfuscate.’
  To make obscure, unclear, bewilder, or unintelligible.
  To me it means telling lies and getting away with it, and yup, she was good at it with her word soup waffle.
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:45pm
- I remember when
  
  Te Reo: The Polynesian language of the Maori.
  It is an official language of New Zealand.
  So is it not Te Reo if a Pakeha is talking using it.
  If a Pakeha is using it is Maori not Te Reo.
  Do I need to shut my eyes and see/hear our ancestors views.
  Is this preparing us for further reasons why the Treaty has to be rewritten?
  Did Maori not cede sovereignty because the Treaty translation was not written in Maori.
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:53pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t close eyes —- Taniwhas you know
    
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    February 5, 2023 2:41pm
Yvette

Since “3 Waters” takes over from my council, by how much will my twice yearly council rates payment reduce since presumable from June they won’t be providing those services?
And who will then bill me for drinking water, waste and storm water infrastructure, and how much will that be.
And will everyone in each Entity pay the same levy?
And if there are differences how will those be determined?
And if “follow the money” means anything, where does that lead you?
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February 5, 2023 10:58am
- I remember when
  
  Yvette:
  An equal, also unanswered question, is are Councils going to be downsized entities or will Central Government offload replacement activities?
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Relax Yvette…
  
  You’ve got another year and a half before you’ll be hit with your 3 Waters’ bill.
  
  The Water Services Entities Act establishes the new water services entities so they are ready to provide services from 1 July 2024.
  
  https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme#:~:text=The%20Water%20Services%20Entities%20Act%20establishes%20the%20new%20water%20services,services%20from%201%20July%202024.
  
  Plenty of time to start saving pennies for a rainy day.
  
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  February 5, 2023 1:46pm
James Stephenson

Can someone explain how the Treaty is in any way relevant to the country “going forward”?

How can we have two separate sides called “Maori” and “the Crown” when we have Māori who are ministers of the crown? We have shared sovereignty over the country already.
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February 5, 2023 11:21am
- Taieri
  
  How can we have two separate sides called “Maori” and “the Crown” when we have Māori who are ministers of the crown?
  —————–
  
  We can’t. But first we have to consider a few things…
  So, what is “the Crown” in 2023?
  Is it a British (or NZ) Monarch domiciled in the UK?
  
  Or should “the Crown” mean the NZ Government, formed as a result of an election by all eligible NZ voters to represent the interests and act on behalf of all New Zealanders, regardless of their ethnicity?
  
  Is it the former? An institution which to all intents and purposes plays only a nominal, negligible and ever diminishing role in the contemporary NZ politics?
  
  Is it the latter? If so, then all the Maori voters are also part of “the Crown”, as they are as instrumental (and essential) in the process of emergence and formation of the NZ Government as the voters of all remaining ethnicities. The question arises then…how can the Maori be both, “the Maori” and “the Crown” at the same time?
  
  Of course, it is very convenient for all the interested parties to maintain “the Crown” vs “the Maori” illusion. I do not think that I need to explain why…
  
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  February 5, 2023 11:46am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    As I noted, there os more b.s. in the ToW industry than at Show Day.
    
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    February 5, 2023 12:10pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Until the law says otherwise, it is still a British (or NZ) Monarch domiciled in the UK !
    
    Though it’s role is neither nominal nor negligible. It defines the New Zealander identity, but it doesn’t the Maori one.
    
    Maori are not primarily, British subjects under British government and law.
    
    It’s just not how they see themselves!
    
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    February 5, 2023 1:27pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      How would you know, not being a Maori?
      
      As for the nonsense you spout, Maori have been the most enthusiastic litigants under “British” law and from the outset were represented in Parliament making it.
      
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      February 5, 2023 2:37pm
    - Jack5
      
      🌴BWAV’s … it is still a British (or NZ) Monarch domiciled in the UK …
      
      With a Maori Governor-General in NZ!
      
      You West Samoans are just lucky NZ invaded in 1914 and replaced Germans. Otherwise Samoans would have had their balls frozen off at Stalingrad. 🙃
      
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      February 5, 2023 2:37pm
    - Taieri
      
      Maori are not primarily, British subjects under British government and law.
      ————-
      
      Correct. They are not “British subjects under British government and law”. Primarily or secondarily for that matter.
      
      They are New Zealand citizens. As, I presume, you are.
      
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      February 5, 2023 2:40pm
      - Swifty
        
        He talks rubbish.
        
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        February 5, 2023 3:45pm
      - MCōs
        
        My first NZ passport (1972) said I was a British Subject & NZ Citizen
        Isn’t that interesting?
        
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        February 5, 2023 5:15pm
    - Swifty
      
      I’m sure Moriori didn’t see themselves as victuals for Ngati Tama nor vassals for their comfort.
      
      Didn’t stop them becoming fertiliser or slaves if they were lucky.
      
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      February 5, 2023 3:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  @James.
  It is all about power. There is a silent Coup happening.
  We lose Democracy and get Tyranny of the Elite Maori dumped on us.
  Unless of course, we all wake up. The NZ media are covering this up desperately.
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:38pm
Ghost

The United States has downed a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast after it traversed sensitive military sites across North America and became the latest flashpoint in tensions between Washington and Beijing.

An operation was underway on Saturday (NZT Sunday) in US territorial waters in the Atlantic Ocean to recover debris from the balloon, which had been flying at about 60,000 feet and was estimated to be about the size of three school buses. The balloon was downed by Air Force fighter aircraft, according to two officials who were not authorised to publicly discuss the matter and spoke on condition of anonymity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/300799714/us-downs-chinese-balloon-over-atlantic-ocean-moves-to-recover-debris
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February 5, 2023 12:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now watch for the Chinese propaganda. China will launch a balloon into China’s airspace and shoot it down. All videoed. The balloon will have the colours of the Stars and Stripes.
  You heard it here first.
  
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  February 5, 2023 12:34pm
- rangitoto
  
  Said to be shot down using an AIM-9X missile, which is normally infrared seeking but can also be guided by datalink from the launching fighter’s radar.
  
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  February 5, 2023 1:41pm
I remember when

Hipkins and Luxon to be greeted at Waitangi – and sent a message: NZ Herald.
I wonder what sort of message you send to a party you have largely never voted for in the past.
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February 5, 2023 12:25pm
wilderbeast

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/historic-northland-p-site-with-links-to-ng-puhi-chief-hongi-hika-handed-back-to-iwi.html

This today….

If Hongi Hika had been Pakeha he’d be considered a genocidal maniac today. He was perhaps the central protagonist in the musket wars, the wars responsible for the most Kiwi deaths at home or overseas EVER.

Ngapuhi, led by Hika and later others, was probably the most aggressive of all tribes in this phase. Certainly they dialled up the rate of killing when Hika himself procured muskets directly in Sydney.

50,000 – 100,000 Maori were killed in a series of territory gaining and tit for tat battles, as well as a few that happened “just cos”. “The Musket Wars” (1999) provides essential reading, and shows just how arbitrary tribal boundaries were at the time of the treaty because the previous 30 years of musket wars were absolute bloody chaos.

I don’t really take issue with the wars themselves, or even Hika himself. Credit where credit is due – he got a very small glimpse of the potential of muskets prior to about 1810 (there were bugger all floating around in NZ) and decided to go industrial with them. In my book he was a very forward thinking and ambitious psycho. Thousands of Maori were slain at his command.

But what I do struggle with is 1) that the extent of killings at his hands is deliberately ignored when historically significant pakeha don’t have this accommodation made to them and in some cases have their comparatively minor indiscretions portrayed as unforgivable crimes AND 2) the gains made off arbitrary tribal boundaries in 1840 often secured in bloody circumstances only a year or two before 1840 – tribes / hapu that had occupied land even for centuries before 1840 were alienated by other Maori in the scheme of history, only moments before, but under the ToW grievance process get nothing.
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February 5, 2023 12:54pm
- Swifty
  
  History is being rewritten wilderbeast.
  
  Inconveniences are being air-brushed out and one side is being held to impossible standards while another side is being held to no standards at all.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:49pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Pass the parcel. Music stopped on 6 Feb 1840.
  
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  February 5, 2023 9:33pm
Ra Henare

If you need proof that Americans are a hysterical tribe.
Then the latest stupidity about a weather balloon, proves it beyond doubt.

Rants from Media both left(CNN) and right(Fox) put out hysterical pieces about a SPY balloon hovering over Montana.

Then 3 jets circling the balloon before a missile(sidewinder) was fired at the balloon.
For ferks sake. IN an earlier life I was an airforce armourer..a sidewinder!!!!!!!!!
Yep set for proximity detonation because “”they”” wanted an explosion.

A simple machine gun/cannon pass would have done the same job but without the TV impact.

Debris spread over 7 miles/Kms?
Yep pieces of the nylon bag blown to bits by the missile.

All maximized theatre.!!!

No wonder the US want to spend billions they dont have on a proxy war they cant win.

Leadership IQ must be in double digits.
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February 5, 2023 2:05pm
- rangitoto
  
  The balloon was reported as being at more than 65,000 feet when it was shot down. At least 5,000 feet higher than the ceiling of the F22. Wouldn’t be an easy gun shot or even possible,
  
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  February 5, 2023 2:24pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    The Ceiling of the F22 you mention is an operational ceiling ie level flight.
    Using the zoom clime principle the F22 would be able to intercept aircraft/Balloons in excess of 70,000ft
    
    In 1984 a British Electric lightning, service ceiling 56,000ft intercepted a U2 at 70,000ft. The Lighting is a toy in terms of thrust and climb rate of an F22(5000ft a minute climb without afterburners).
    
    Add in the 20mm Canon in the F22, which has a range of some 6kms. Halve that to 3,000 metres say 5,000 ft, so at least lethal for a balloon to 75,000ft?
    
    I would NOT believe anything the Pentagon releases as fact. They are just another huge propganda machine
    
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    February 6, 2023 1:10am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I doubt it was a weather balloon but the rest of your case stands.
  
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  February 5, 2023 2:25pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    What causes you to doubt it was a weather balloon?
    The media hype about it being a spy balloon!!!
    
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    February 6, 2023 1:17am
- kowtow
  
  Americans hysterical?
  
  It’s a media beat up.
  
  For hysterical try the NZ media when the national RFU team loses a couple of matches………..
  
  Bwahahahaha .
  
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  February 5, 2023 2:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Joe did this!//
  Needs a sticker.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:41pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I’m surprised that the USA waited as long as it did before shooting down this balloon. Hope the Americans recover the bits and let the world know what it was all about.
  
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  February 5, 2023 7:21pm
  - Ghost
    
    It was just delivering Hunter Biden’s crack
    
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    February 5, 2023 7:23pm
  - Mike
    
    Even if the US forces recover the wreckage, many Kiwibloggers will still prefet to believe the Chinese story.
    
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    February 5, 2023 7:45pm
    - NoCash
      
      I believed Gen. Powell.
      
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      February 5, 2023 9:38pm
I remember when

A study by the University of Missouri has narrowed the long-covid-19 symptoms down to seven (7).
As many as 47 have been reported.
Long covid is defined as lasting longer than two months.
Fast-beating heart, fatigue, hair loss, chest pain, shortness of breath, joint pain and obesity are the symptoms.
A similar study last year found that 15% of all people who tested positive for covid reported symptoms lasting more than two months.
The University of Missouri examined 52,461 patient’s electronic records from 122 healthcare facilities throughout the US.

I did find myself wondering what percentage of the patients were obese.
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February 5, 2023 2:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Obese, or have underlying medical conditions, some not even known. Blood cancers, any cancer (I have low level prostate cancer with no symptoms. The thing with this, it can take off. First targets are hip joint and lower spine) Many fit and healthy get knocked to the floor, and just can’t believe it.
  University of Missouri. Wintertime, people get sick.
  
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  February 5, 2023 2:54pm
- mandk
  
  Long Covid is most frequently anxiety disorder.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:26pm
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , it’s in their heads .
    
    And the “symptoms” listed above sounds more like ;
    
    old fat bastard going down hill due to age and over eating.
    
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    February 5, 2023 3:41pm
    - MCōs
      
      Wrong
      
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      February 5, 2023 8:50pm
- MCōs
  
  Writing as someone stricken with symptoms of covid since 20-Dec and so approaching two months with no end in sight I can confirm I’ve talked to a number of people with basically similar symptoms, but all sorts of ages, degrees a fitness and weight.
  In other words it seems to be the luck in the main and it’s not pleasant.
  
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  February 5, 2023 8:48pm
  - Ghost
    
    I’ve read that some with long covid have got Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome
    
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    February 5, 2023 8:57pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    My sympathies, MCos
    
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    February 5, 2023 9:35pm
Taieri

Why does Stuff allow this abominable man to get away with his climate-denier propaganda?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131138230/damien-grant-we-can-make-ourselves-poor-but-we-cant-stop-the-rain

How dares he? Doesn’t he realize that the Planet is on fire, the seas are boiling and Pacific Islands are disappearing under the ocean?
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February 5, 2023 2:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He is an idiot. Auckland is a first World City. Really? Has he seen the homeless, and the druggies? Oh, bit the Viaduct Harbour and Wynyard Quarter? First class to an overseas visitor.
  Good satire in your last paragraph. Love it!
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:04pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Good question. I presume Grant is held in solitary confinement at Stuff so its journalists can recognize their enemy.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:05pm
  - Doc Holliday
    
    Read the textbook by Oxford U physics prof Ray Pierrehumbert then ‘correct’ him!
    
    https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Planetary-Climate-Raymond-Pierrehumbert/dp/0521865565
    
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    February 5, 2023 3:38pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Your link doesn’t work. Are you arguing from authority or have a point to make?
      
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      February 5, 2023 4:42pm
      - Doc Holliday
        
        It’s a link to an important textbook about science you would not be able to refute.
        
        If you do not know how to follow a link then Google the textbook and read some of it on Amazon.
        
        Then perhaps you’ll stop making such a fool of yourself.
        
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        February 5, 2023 10:59pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  He’s not denying the science just saying global warming doesn’t matter.
  
  While stating he doesn’t understand the science or know anything about it.
  
  Just the bloke you want deciding your
  grandchildren’s future.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:32pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Much the same as climate scientists saying it does matter without understanding the economics or anything about it.
    
    7 3
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    February 5, 2023 4:44pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Thomas Sowell: “There are 3 questions that would destroy most of the arguments of the Left. The first is – compared to what? The second is – at what cost? And the third is – what hard evidence do you have?
    
    For climate change:
    1/ Compared to What: the last 12000 years of the interglacial Holocene has seen frequent centuries long variations in temperature of several degrees up or down, with sea level changes of several meters (eg classical ports in mediterranean now many km from sea) due to dropping sea level as climate has generally cooled over last few millennia with growing ice caps. The Holocene climate optimum 6000 years back was globally much warmer than today.
    2/at what cost: mitigation for warming effects has been calculated at a few % of global GDP in many decades time, vs “net zero” idiocy shutting down of most of global economy – largely ending intensive agriculture and driving large swathes of population into abject poverty.
    3/Hard evidence of catastrophic impacts of climate change: Near zero. No noticeable impacts on severe weather in data yet, models and pundits continuously fail in their exaggerated predicted effects, and sea level continues to rise at a very un-scary ~2mm/year (subsidence corrected tide gauge data), that is entirely normal in context of typical rates of change up and down over last 10000 years.
    
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    February 5, 2023 6:11pm
Taieri

With Australia removing the Monarch’s face from its banknotes, perhaps it’s the time for NZ to consider similar move?

There’s a timely article in Stuff with suggestions as to who should replace the Royalty.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131149374/topp-twins-tme-iti-my-mum-kiwi-celebrities-pick-who-should-be-on-our-banknotes#comments

My suggestion would be Jacinda Ardern on all notes. She’s the only suitable candidate to represent the loss of their value.
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February 5, 2023 2:49pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  That would hasten the move to digital currency.
  
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  February 5, 2023 3:07pm
Ghost

Some shops and online services have been unable to process eftpos payments on Sunday due to a worldwide outage in a payment gateway provided by United States company Windcave.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300799800/eftpos-outages-reported-after-us-payment-gateway-fails
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February 5, 2023 3:17pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  We had some outages yesterday morning.
  
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  February 5, 2023 4:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Um, another bribe. These are people we never hear about.

https://patriotunitednews.com/massive-20-million-biden-bribe-exposed-7/
3 3
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February 5, 2023 3:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

When do you know it is time to fade away?
https://patriotunitednews.com/liberal-crowd-turned-nasty-on-pelosi/
3 3
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February 5, 2023 4:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hiding Covid Data.
https://patriotunitednews.com/nih-hiding-covid-data-details-on-coverup-11/
5 3
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February 5, 2023 4:04pm
Ghost

Newly proposed legislation would allow incarcerated people in Massachusetts to trade one precious commodity, donated organs, for another: Time.

Under HD.3822, a bill filed in the State House last month, incarcerated individuals could shave two months to one year off of their prison sentence in exchange for bone marrow and organ donations.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2023/02/01/massachusetts-bill-prison-time-bone-marrow-organ-donations/
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February 5, 2023 4:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ugly people are more likely to wear face masks. Any excuse from the lefties!
But if you don’t wear one you think that you are ‘cute’
Who thinks this shit up?
https://valiantnews.com/2023/02/new-study-shows-ugly-people-more-likely-to-wear-face-masks/
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February 5, 2023 4:55pm
Observer of Life

Apologies if this has already been posted. I haven’t read any of GD today.
Oxford (England) Climate Lockdown…
“ Canterbury Council wants to divide the city into five zones and then limit the use of private vehicles.
Once the city is zoned up, the residents will be allocated a zone.
They can drive freely in their zone but mustn’t pass between zones unless they take a newly specified route. Of course, the whole thing will be controlled by ANPR cameras that will fine residents if they try to travel between zones any other way than what the authoritarian council dictates…”
https://www.rebelnews.com/oxford_climate_lockdown
Coming to our own backyard soon???
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February 5, 2023 5:06pm
Mike

There was an item on the TV news tonight re the Chateau. Is anyone else peeved by the habit of so many people to treat the words historic and historical as synonyms?
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February 5, 2023 6:28pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear, Oh dear..

Marama Davidson is upset that Christopher Luxon referred to the TofW as a “little experiment”

He also described the Treaty as “a little experiment” – something Greens co-leader Marama Davidson said that description was “a little bit patronising”.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/02/05/analysis-waitangi-eve-what-went-down/

Clearly Marama Davidson has never read Dame Claudia Orange’s PhD thesis:

The Abstract states:

A conviction strongly held by New Zealanders is that the treaty has made the country different from other nations, that it initiated an experiment in race relationships that has secured reasonable accord over the years.

https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/handle/2292/1577

I wonder if Marama Davidson thinks Dr Orange’s work is “a little bit patronising”.
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February 5, 2023 7:09pm
- Ghost
  
  You know Christopher could have said I strongly believe in the treaty, Marama would then come on the television and complain he was belittling Māori.
  
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  February 5, 2023 7:14pm

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