General Debate 20 February 2023

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NeverMindTheBollocks

There’s been some speculation here & on other sites that off the back of Gabrielle and the new PM bump, Labour will call a snap election.

I think not. Labour has an absolute majority, which will not repeat. I predict that Labour will get a walloping. Few if any Labour Ministers have had or will have a better paid job. Chippy won’t be PM again. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.

No, I think Labour will use their absolute majority for as long as they can to shove as much of their lunatic policy forward as they can. They will then rest, regroup & go again, safe on the knowledge that few of their accomplishments will be directly overturned by the new government.
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February 20, 2023 8:00am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Concur. The only possible reason they’d do it would be if the polls said they’d get another convincing win. And I don’t reckon their polls are telling them that.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:01am
- Drone
  
  @NMTB the Chippy bump in the polls will be extended by regular Chippy updates from flood ravaged areas of NZ and bucket loads of money from the [Mod – use correct names]. Labour will be a shoe in come October..
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:07am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I think the worm is turning, HB locals gutted they are getting no support, the gangs are running a muck and other areas are aghast they have been left with no meetings or plan either
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:33am
    - nathie
      
      You mean … Labour are the same old, same old, “pig” despite the new glossy, MSM endorsed “lipstick”??!! And the gloss is wearing off? With the same old rabble pulling the levers??!!
      
      Perhaps “rearranging deckchairs” and “Titanic” is the “nicer” PC way to describe them??!!
      
      Perhaps Labour needs a new shinny new face to replace Chippie soon … Arena Williams is it your time to step up??? Anyone else?? 😂
      
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      February 20, 2023 12:09pm
  - crikey
    
    Drone: “ Labour will be a shoe in come October..”.
    
    No, the electorate is going to put the boot in.
    
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    February 20, 2023 3:48pm
- cmm
  
  I partially agree and partially disagree.
  
  Cindy had lost interest in her plaything and is looking for something different #CinD4UN! etc. She was just burning the house down. She knew she couldn’t win the next election so was just doing everything she could to crank out her crazy policies.
  
  Chippy, on the other hand, seems to have been winding back some policies. It would seem there is at least some intention to win the next election.
  
  Of course what we’re being presented with is professional wrestling. It is a charade for the muggles. The key policies (3W etc) don’t seem to be being wound back and it looks unlikely that National will wind them back either.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:15am
- Frank the tank
  
  In fairness to Hipkins and the government they will have no time to implement crazy or ideological policies from now to the election. I still don’t think most (including here) people have a true understanding how large a task it will be to fix both the East Cape and Napier.
  
  This will require actual actions and solutions and while politically I disagree with Hipkins I hope for the people of those communities and other areas like the far north and West Auckland, Hipkins gets stuck in and fixes infrastructure rather than grand standing and creating bumper sticker slogans.
  
  I would suggest for any government post government this will be a bridge too far.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:05am
  - Sarkozygroupie
    
    They will have time to implement their policy programme. There are dozens of ministers and most won’t be focussed or employed full time on recovery. While the country is focused on that, things will be happening under the radar. Same thing happened with Covid. So much co-governance type legislation passed without the public being aware of it.
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:47pm
  - Paulus
    
    Is there not something like 30 Parliamentary Working days before the Election starts, so they will delay as such as possible, or carry on serrupticially.
    Thet will do all they can to stop any questions being asked by the oppsition in Parliament as they are doing so already by delay.
    
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    February 20, 2023 1:21pm
  - Drone
    
    We are only days away from the te tiriti being quoted as the govt creates an “East Coast Recovery Agency” to focus on recovery, and tribal elders pointing out the cyclone was a manifestation of colonialism..
    
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    February 20, 2023 4:10pm
- Paulus
  
  My wife and her friends do not like Luxon so say they will not vote National consequently.
  Been married almost 60 years I say nothing.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:19am
  - nathie
    
    Fully understand … maybe politely enquire of SWMBO whether she prefers a 2023 Labour-led Crim/Gang/Mahuta/Willie Jackson/Green/Maori Party hugging Govt?
    
    Or hold one’s nose and vote for that smiling Mr Luxon or that young Mr Seymour?
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:16pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Yikes Paulus! so she and her friends vote for the party that has a leader she likes? Best you do say something.
    
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    February 20, 2023 4:49pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Tell them to party vote ACT at least man.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:46pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Fair enough. I give a 20% chance to a snap election ironically because of the very walloping they might get in October.
  
  Turkeys might not vote for Christmas, but they’ll try a desperate escape attempt if it’s certain their necks are for the chop. And a bump in the polls, a friendly (read:complicit) media, and exploitation of the current disaster porn seem like a good excuse for an escape attempt.
  
  “They will then rest, regroup & go again, safe on the knowledge that few of their accomplishments will be directly overturned by the new government.”
  
  Bingo. The turkeys are for the chop, sure, but the chickens are lining up to replace them.
  
  Very fowl.
  
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  February 20, 2023 1:52pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  There’s no way you could run an election at the moment. Gabrielle has crushed any idea Labour may have had about going early.
  
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  February 20, 2023 5:29pm
Yvette

Slash
■ February 19 2023
Federated Farmers is calling for a halt on pine forest operations until harvesting practices are improved after slash is believed to have destroyed billions of dollars of infrastructure.
An inquiry has been launched, but the damage has already been done.
Related News …

Up the Mangatokerau Valley there’s a carpet of debris lining the river bed and it’s so deep you can’t see the ground. Linda Gough’s land is littered with logs and waist-deep mud, her land is ruined …
After 26 years of living here, she’s used to flooding – but said the mess left behind is forestry’s fault.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/02/calls-to-halt-pine-forestry-on-unsuitable-east-coast-land-after-slash-destroys-infrastructure.html

■ January 25 2023
…Federated Farmers was calling on the government to establish an inquiry into the factors that contributed to flooding and smashed infrastructure from ex-tropical Cyclone Hale.
The Environmental Defence Society had also called for an inquiry into forestry practices.
Federated Farmers said residual material and slash from forestry harvesting had significantly contributed to damage to farmland.

National board member Toby Williams said with every rain event more slash was washing down.
“We’ve got farmers now who are seriously considering whether they just shut the gate and walk off the land,” he said.
Minister of Forestry Stuart Nash earlier told Morning Report there was no need for an inquiry.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483060/tolaga-bay-residents-still-stranded-as-22-roads-remain-closed-following-cyclone-hale

■ June 7 2018
It will cost at least $10 million to clean up the forestry debris strewn across roads and properties by flooding in Tolaga Bay, the Gisborne District Council estimates.

Another failed promise of the Ardern / Hipkins Labour Government was to plant One Billion Trees –
thank God for that one falling silently in the forest!

And for James Shaw, What portion of forestry is slash, left to release carbon, compared to trees that are supposed to sequester carbon? – it could be nice to work that one out with an ex-covid computer modelling expert.
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February 20, 2023 8:04am
- Ian Boag
  
  Pine forests …
  
  Imagine I am a hill-country sheep/beef farmer. Someone walks up the drive and offers a premium price for my farm. They represent a foreign outfit that wants to plant it in trees for offshore carbon credits. I understand this happens quite a bit.
  
  Where is the gummint supposed to fit into this? If they ban pine forests they will be robbing me of the premium that someone wants to pay for my farm …. ?
  
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  December 20, 2022 10:03am
  - Yvette
    
    Ian Boag, you should still get a premium price for your farm.
    
    Meanwhile Government should fit in with reasonable measures of forestry husbandry (or whatever the woke term is now) and if those caveats are not observed the State should bulldoze fire breaks around the whole farm and burn all the fucking trees down to the ground.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:32am
    - Ian Boag
      
      government should fit in with reasonable measures of forestry husbandry
      
      Sounds good. The cashed-up foreign buyer might not want my farm then. So I dunno where the premium price would be coming from ….
      
      I was just trying to describe something that is apparently a problem – I have no idea what the solution is. Somehow I can’t see the bulldozer/napalm approach going anywhere.
      
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      December 20, 2022 10:40am
      - Yvette
        
        Ian Boag – “reasonable measures of forestry husbandry
        Sounds good. The cashed-up foreign buyer might not want my farm then”
        
        Did you buy your farm thinking you could off-load it later to a forester?
        If so the profit may only be in your mind, no real loss
        You may just have to think of something else, as do framers with slash all over their livelihood.
        
        “I can’t see the bulldozer/napalm approach going anywhere”
        A new RMA with everything subject to a Maori Council decision may not be any better.
        
        Sorry, I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning –
        the side against the wall.
        
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        February 20, 2023 10:56am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Did you buy your farm thinking you off-load it later to a forester?
        
        Nope. I bought it umpty years ago and farmed it. Now I am ready to move on and not leave it to a son. I just want the best price. Anecdotally I have heard stories about foresters being willing to pay premiums of 50% or more …
        
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        February 20, 2023 11:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    This rotten government told us not one more acre of farm land to be sold to foreigners
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:34am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Not sure how the CC thing works, but I think it is possible for an NZ buyer to sell the carbon credits to someone offshore ….
      
      The “sale of land to foreigners” thing is not a new issue. Personally if I owned a farm that I was selling off to fund my retirement and my children’s well-being and all that – whoever wanted to pay the most would look good. I waould be pretty scratchy if the gummint prevented the transaction …
      
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      February 20, 2023 11:06am
      - Nickc2
        
        It could be worse Ian. This Govt could steal it like they did with ratepayer’s water infrastructure and gift it to whoever will promise them votes and a slice of the action.
        I think this Govt’s tossing up between China and Maori or a combination of both eh?
        
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        February 20, 2023 1:54pm
      - lemuzz
        
        You are missing the point here. Most of these forestry blocks are on maori and Government land and built up from pumice from volcanic eruptions over many millions of years and which is not suitable for farming and to add to the mix is mostly steep. Forestry has been a perfect crop except during severe weather bombs like Cyclone Bola and Cyclone Gabrialle. I saw videos of stumps from the aftermath that were the size of a small car simply washed from the ground and had floated down river and caught up on the debris pushed against the bridges which couldn’t hold up against the pressure. The problem will be with us for many years until the trees are firstly milled and the stumps and slash decay of their own natural accord. Then what will be done with the pumice lands? The abrasive nature of the pumice soil will play havoc on chippers and burning the slash will be out of the question in a forest area.
        
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        February 20, 2023 5:36pm
  - Taieri
    
    If they ban pine forests they will be robbing me of the premium that someone wants to pay for my farm …. ?
    ———————
    
    Here is your answer: can you built a factory in the middle of a residential area?
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:28am
  - Matt Long
    
    The sale of farmland to foreign interests that will receive heavy subsidies from the taxpayer and consumer to plant “carbon forests” is a different issue to harvesting pines and dealing with slash.
    A solution needs to be found that will prevent slash entering water courses burning may be an option, but the government’s most like courageous course will be inquiry, working party, inflexible unworkable ineffective regulations on foresters making harvesting financially nonviable followed by even worse damage from the next big storm.
    The government response to most things is like introducing cane toads to control cane beetle or forcing farmers to put DDT in their fertiliser to control insect pests, or an ETS and a leaky canoe to improve the weather.
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:39am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Umpty years ago (late 70s) I had occasion to fly from Foxton to Taharoa in a light aircraft. Up the middle of the North Island.
      
      We flew over a fair bit of what looked like recently logged forest. There were piles of what I suppose would now be called slash.
      
      There was a chopper flying along with some sort of flaming ball on a long cable. It stopped at each pile, lowered the ball into it, then moved on when the pile caught fire.
      
      Or something like that … was a bit different to anything I had seen or heard of.
      
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      February 20, 2023 11:50am
      - Matt Long
        
        Yes, but under those piles of debris are all sort of vertebrates and invertebrates that the greens love much more than people who might be adversely affected by floods.
        
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        February 20, 2023 11:58am
      - Matt Long
        
        And the seventies were primative times, people did stupid stuff like building hydropower dams, and no one even knew there were thousands of gender.
        
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        February 20, 2023 12:03pm
      - Paulus
        
        Understand burning logs/slash is not permitted without special authority from Wellingotn – will not be given as an evironmental hazrard.
        Firewood cutting also not allowed as the slash wood must be allowed to rot.
        
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        February 20, 2023 1:25pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Matt Long @ 12:03PM
        Ah, those were the days when the definition of a woman of the human species could be described in one sentence. An impossibility these days eh?
        
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        February 20, 2023 2:08pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Matt
        
        This was the late 70’s. I think we were pretty much all done with building hydro dams then because the good sites were pretty much used up ….
        
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        February 20, 2023 3:54pm
  - Sacha
    
    Time was, that pine trees were only planted on land that was too difficult to farm. Pine trees were planted on steep hill-sides around craggy rocks. They were straggly and didn’t always survive. When they were pruned, by hand, the trimmings lay on the ground, and while the trees were standing there seemed to be few problems. It is the remnants of these early forests and bare hills that are causing problems now.
    
    Logging was difficult and expensive until the sale of logs became profitable. Land became more valuable, and investors started to look at more accessible land to get better tree growth for timber & to make their carbon credits more easily/cheaply acquired, and successive governments were persuaded to allow sales of good farming country to foreigners.
    
    We read of land owners who seem to regard land as a cash resource, who will sell to the highest bidder without regard for the environment. That is their right, but they are no better than the carbon creditors or the forestry companies.
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:14pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      land owners … who will sell to the highest bidder without regard …
      
      That is their right
      
      Yup. A bit surprised that anyone on KB would question that 🙂
      
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      February 20, 2023 3:57pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    In my day it was called.
    Tuff shit buddy.
    
    Life aint fair.
    
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    February 20, 2023 3:45pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    I’m with you Ian. The Government have no role to play in the sale of PRIVATE PROPERTY. The one thing I would say, is that various Governments have been complicit in the run on farmland for forestry. Perhaps if they reversed some of their previous policies, it might reduce the land being forested.
    
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    February 20, 2023 4:51pm
Clyde

So the gangs are behind the looting and burglaries in the Cyclone-hit communities in Hawkes Bay.

What a surprise that is.

I noticed that Sunday night’s Country Calendar was set in one of those remote farming communities and that gangs were mentioned as a presence there. My guess is that they were inhabiting those areas because they expect little interference in growing pot or dealing in meth from the Police.

Maybe it is time for another agency to be employed in dealing with these vermin and lowlifes. I’d like to hear suggestions, but surely there are agencies that are used to dealing with vermin.

Police Minister Stuart Nash made the usual comments on the news and was less than pathetic on Hosking this morning by simply going into mantra mode, but it means nothing. Liemore are soft on crime and it seems National are well on the way to accepting that gangs are a part of NZ life. I say they are not. Gangs have absolutely NO positive benefit to the country. What would Singapore do to our current gang problem?

Maybe we should follow their lead instead of the namby pamby too complex course being followed by Liemore.
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February 20, 2023 8:12am
- Bobba Fret
  
  “Maybe it is time for another agency to be employed in dealing with these vermin”
  
  The army would be good.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:10am
  - Nickc2
    
    That can only happen with a special Act of Parliament.
    Don’t forget, many in the Army probably have bros in the Gangs.
    
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    February 20, 2023 1:11pm
- pdm
  
  Clyde
  
  Nash less than pathetic?
  
  I heard the interview and would say that Nash was absolutely,comprehensivively and incompetently PATHETIC.
  
  What a poor excuse for a politician masquerading as a Police Minister Nash is and worst of all he he currently has 20 odd mates exactly the same.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:11am
  - Nickc2
    
    Don’t forget, he was one of Cindy’s biggest worshipers when he appeared on the Hosking show singing her praises to all who would listen.
    IMO, his fawning over her at that time was verging on incestuous.
    
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    February 20, 2023 1:17pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Labour/ Green will do nothing real and meaningful about gangs as they see their membership as victims of a system that is the ultimate villain rather than the gang. The gang is a reaction to the systemic racism born of colonialism and a Eurocentric organisation of society. Demands for action and tough response to the gangs behaviour is just whiteness demanding the oppression of groups of victims that have had their cultural purpose stolen from them. In the eyes of the post modernist/ neo Marxist the gang member is the victim and you dear reader demanding law and order are the villain and the oppressor. Such is the interpretation of the world by these clowns. So don’t hold your breath for any real action from a political ideology that finds itself unable in all conscience to heap more oppression on the poor brown people. Suck it up.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:16am
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  “Maybe it is time for another agency to be employed in dealing with these vermin and lowlifes. I’d like to hear suggestions, but surely there are agencies that are used to dealing with vermin”.
  
  Duterte. First principles.
  
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  February 20, 2023 1:04pm
Monty

I have been advised by a friend high up in an emergency service that the number of deaths could be in to Three figures as a result of the Cyclone. And the cause – the slash from forests caused multiple dams up the rivers and when one broke it caused a domino effect that mean a wall of water came down the rivers and that is what caused the damage and flooding. Has the Minister of Forestry been aware of the risks? and why was no action taken. This government response might be ok (thanks to the efforts of police / defence) but questions need to be answered about why Ministers have sat on their hands regarding the forest slash?

edit – Stuart Nash is the responsible minister by the way
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February 20, 2023 8:12am
- nathie
  
  How much of the slash is from all these “fancy new green” carbon sequesting pine forests that are being planted to “stop climate change”?
  
  Or to offset emissions from jet travelers, like James Shaw (who has stated on many occasions he has trees planted to “make up” for his extensive air travel)?
  
  Are Labour/Greens sanctioned “climate change” initiatives wiping out communities and killing people?
  
  I hope not, but so far the media has had very little to say to inform the public, except to say that many of these forests are owned by “people living overseas”.
  
  But what does that mean exactly? Genuine overseas forestry companies (looking to fell the trees for wood processing when they mature) or overseas investors seeking returns on planting pine trees to take advantage of Labour/Greens supported CC/carbon tax initiatives?
  
  Do we have any non-partisan (CC hugging) investigative journalists and media outlets willing to research all this and hold the Government to account?
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:13am
- nathie
  
  Think there was a media article yesterday saying pine tree planting is better suited to the volcanic soils, not the slip prone soils of the East Coast (which is better suited to native tree planting apparently), can anyone comment better on this?
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:16am
  - Matt Long
    
    Pines in our area, Whangarei, hold the soil better than natives and most of the slips I have seen in this event are in regenerating native bush.
    However pine harvest time even without flood debris seems to cause a lot of detrimental effects.
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:47am
  - Sacha
    
    Our forest (now in its second rotation) is about 5km from the coast. We planted it after cyclone Bola removed so much topsoil that the land was unusable for stock – sheep/cattle. It was fairly steep hill country with no vehicle access. We lost very few trees over the years –
    We kept a strip of land on either side of the river/stream to maintain the native environment.
    Neighbouring forests, planted later, have held on well.
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I can comment on this, and will probably put up more posts on Forestry/ native/pine and erosion-prone land in the following weeks.
    
    I’m pressed for time currently as I’m heading to Oz in a couple of days.
    
    Key ideas:
    *Protection Forest is the best cover for our erosion-prone soils in high rainfall areas.
    *Protection forest should be permanent forest… – Never harvested.
    (I think that was the original idea for the Government-funded pine plantings following Cyclone Bola)
    
    * It is hopeless attempting mass plantings of native tree species on steep, erosion prone land.
    (Plants too exposed in our hot dry summers)
    
    Either – (i) let natural reversion occur….. could be a slow process…50-80 years to get tree cover (through a shrub (gorse – manuka) stage.
    
    or (ii) plant up a fast-growing nurse cover crop of introduced trees – radiata pine, tree lucerne, Tasmanian blackwood, etc…and let natives grow through the nurse crop .
    
    (I’ll write about other stuff later…but for anyone acquainted with Guthrie-Smith and “Tutira”, you’ll realise Cyclone Gabrielle and the devastation of Hawkes Bay is not a new phenomenon).
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:49pm
    - Jack5
      
      Welcome back, Maggy, and hope you and yours came through the cyclone safely.
      
      Re protection forest. Hugh Wilson had success with gorse nursery for native trees on Banks Peninsula
      
      https://www.nzgeo.com/audio/gorse-for-the-trees-how-one-man-brought-back-a-forest/
      
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      February 20, 2023 1:00pm
      - gravedodger
        
        Hugh’s slightly naive concept did not fare so well a few years ago when a Lightning strike set the 2000 acres ablaze and Hinewai with no fire breaks meant only the valley floor survived unburnt.
        Inquiry never did ascertain what was the cost of fighting that little burn came to but I warrant it was eye watering.
        
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        February 20, 2023 1:55pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep,
        I know Hugh and Hinewai.
        
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        February 20, 2023 2:17pm
- nathie
  
  And the cause – the slash from forests caused multiple dams up the rivers and when one broke it caused a domino effect that mean a wall of water came down the rivers and that is what caused the damage and flooding.
  
  That fits in with many eyewitness reports saying water levels rose exceptionally high within a few minutes (i.e. from few moments it took them to gather up their family, animals and some possessions it was mostly too late in many cases).
  
  Will we then expect to see the Govt ban the news media from viewing these blocked dams? Or can the media get some drones to take a look for them?
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:32am
- Gertie
  
  Yip, its pretty obvious thats what happened. Slash built up, damming water, then dams break and inland tsunami takes place. I listened to a lady from TeKaraka. They had 20 seconds to get out. Had to leave everything behind and just go. As fast as possible.
  The photos of slash taking out vast areas of maize or sweetcorn, bridges, houses roads. During Bola the soil came down, farmers were criticized. So forestry was planted. 35 years later, a lot of that forestry has been harvested and the destruction is many times worse. What to do now eh…
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:06am
Captain Mainwaring

Looters in Hawkes Bay.
Sounds like a reason for army marksmen to shoot on sight.
That would fix it.
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February 20, 2023 8:14am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s all sorted, Nash told them to wind their necks in, you can’t make this shit up
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:39am
  - rouppe
    
    Nash is an all talk no action loser
    
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    February 20, 2023 1:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seriously? A good guy to stop a bad guy?
  We don’t do that in NZ, we are kind.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    Eventually the good guys have had enough and stand up.
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:53am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Which is why the Government took their guns away.
      
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      February 20, 2023 9:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        ‘First they came for your guns’ and I did not have a gun.
        Jaspinda, can you complete this? Please? Pretty please.
        
        6 1
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        February 20, 2023 3:51pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  NZ needs some roof Koreans. Sadly they probably can’t get through immigration.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:04am
- MCōs
  
  Next minute
  Someone will start shooting back.
  Christchurch was just as bad for looters, if not worse.
  I knew of people who’s houses were stripped, hot water cylinders, everything.
  Happened every time there’s a natural disaster.
  I’m not downplaying the situation, but that’s the way it is.
  Next thing will be people setting up bogus givealittle pages. That sort of thing.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How can they shoot back if they are dead MCos?
    Fucking BANG! no prisoners taken.
    
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    February 20, 2023 3:53pm
    - MCōs
      
      The police and certainly not the military are going to shoot anybody if they catch them looting, but if they did it would be a first in recent times & would lead to who knows where both legally and in terms of retaliation.
      This is not America.
      
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      February 20, 2023 5:08pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Agreed captain. Declare no go areas unless accompanied by officials ie police or soldiers. Anyone found in those areas at any time with out official company arrested or shot after a warning to give up. I reckon no more than two dead gang members and the problem would be solved.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:31am
- Paulus
  
  Army would not be allowed except by Parliament to have guns, let alone bullets.
  
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  February 20, 2023 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

What sort of animal excrement would be driving around Hastings pointing sawn-off shotguns at Road Workers engaged in the flood clean up?

https://newsroom.co.nz/pistols-and-shotgun-aimed-at-flood-roadworkers

I see where Police Minister Stuart Nash has told the gangs….
“To pull their heads in. Now is not the time for this sort of behaviour”

So when is then Stewie?
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February 20, 2023 8:17am
- Keith White
  
  Nash is good at bullying soft targets, with Police and Army protecting him.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:24am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yep, that’ll have them quaking in their steel-capped boots!
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:27am
- Scott
  
  Maggie thanks for bringing this to our attention. Police minister Nash sounds weak as piss to me? Gangs pointing sawn off shotguns at road workers cleaning up after the floods needs a much stronger response than that.
  
  What is it about the gangs and the police at the moment? Gangs stop people going to hospital in Auckland while their own gang members are treated. No police action. Even here in Masterton gangs took it upon themselves to block a major round about while their own people rode through as Lords of the land and no police action was taken.
  
  To me there is a general break down of law and order under this government. And it won’t get any better, it will get worse.
  
  Only a change of government will resolve our unlawful malaise and disorder in my opinion.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:29am
  - leoj
    
    …with maori sympathiser Luxon in charge?
    
    Dream on.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:04am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Scott read my comment about labour green ideology and gangs.
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:33am
- igm
  
  Maybe another handout of $2.75 million may quieten these lovely misunderstood underprivileged scum. Seems to be the Labour way.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:33am
- peterwn
  
  A sawn off shotgun is legally a pistol and possessing one means a maximum sentence of three years in jail. Judge Tony Adeane should be brought out of retirement to deal with these people.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:40am
  - GJM
    
    But all postls have been registered for 100 years, so since the sawn off is a pstol, they can just look up the registry and go and see the registered owner.
    
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    February 21, 2023 11:00am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Media paymaster says dump that link. “ok boss, done”.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:41am
- Yvette
  
  Does the Crimes Act specify Looting as a special category, to be treated with the same concern as sectors of society want Hate Speech delt with as a special addition to the same Act?
  With Weather Change arriving as James Shaw forecast (sic), will not looting become an issue that may occur as often if not more than hate speech?
  Whoever is Minister of Justice this week could perhaps ponder that one and take five years to formulate some law and a slogan to go with it.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    I am reasonably sure that Looting, as a specific category, was removed from the Crimes Act and it just falls in with general theft etc.
    
    Looting is particularly bad because it is further attacking victims and exploits people in crisis. It’s like those bastards who help themselves at a scene of a crash or steal from the back of ambulances.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:22am
  - Ehlana
    
    Hate speech, Yvette, can hurt the feelings of people who are, for example, “real Maoris” (as opposed to the like of David Seymour).
    
    Whereas looting just helps with de-colonialisation of stolen lands. And slash isn’t really a problem, because settler farmers are the cause of climate change, don’t you know.
    
    So no, looting will not be treated like Hate Speech.
    
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    February 20, 2023 2:14pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Does Nash remind you of Faafoi? He went from hero to zero because he didn’t want to be there, I still think the info I received about Nash not standing next term may well be true, he doesn’t look like he wants to be there, there has been no sign of him, he appeared on Hosking after he text in saying he wants on the show after being called out as utterly in useless on radio
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:43am
- RoboRob
  
  Yeah apparently now is not the time for Crime and the police are taking on a ‘zero tolerance’ policy. So I assume that means that at other time crime is acceptable and the police will look the otherway to certain people / crimes.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:59am
- ClanMcleod
  
  “page not found” – the Ministry of Truth is hard at work today.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  Impossible.
  
  The gun confiscation , done at huge expense ,was promised to make New Zealand safer.
  
  Innit.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:31am
- sirknz
  
  Going by the $tuff ‘cartoon’ by Emma Cooke this morning, it looks like angry old white guys harassing the poor brown men and women who are doing this.
  
  The super subtle colouring in the cartoon certainly doesn’t point to any political biases…
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:15pm
Nickc2

“Pull your heads in.” Upgraded version “Pull your bloody heads in.”
These proclamations were issued to the Mongrel Mob who were looting in Hawkes Bay during Cyclone Gabrielle by our fearless Police Minister.
Aren’t we fortunate in having such a decisive and fearless Minister of Police?
Don’t despair, he also told them ‘it’s not the time’ for such behaviour.’
Would you re-elect this clown?
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February 20, 2023 8:18am
- Don Beckett
  
  In many countries, looting is met with police/others arriving with rifles – if they don’t run away, they get shot.
  Sounds like a pretty good solution to me – and a top deterent to any others wishing to follow the same occupation.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:21am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Would you re-elect any of those clowns?
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:52am
Suze Wainwright

What’s with all the anti partisan politics messages suddenly populating msm and social media alike…?
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February 20, 2023 8:20am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s to try and silence the anger building in HB over inaction, they are now refusing to let the army help with law s as no order, while they suggest they have called them in, Napier mayor said they are they, but you can’t see them and even she has not mate with them. More failure from a rapidly unpopular government response.
  
  I see members of the community are now blocking access in streets to keep gangs out, but no sign of the government support they weee promised by gumboots
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:56am
Bridgenag

nothing is obvious to scared people
returning from the foray into fear

https://boriquagato.substack.com/?utm_campaign=pub&utm_medium=webr=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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February 20, 2023 8:21am
Bridgenag

Just for fun

Why women live longer
https://twitter.com/BornAKang/status/1627117988124950528?s=20
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February 20, 2023 8:22am
nathie

Media have been reporting gang looting in Napier for days and yesterday Newshub had a substantial story on it. Anyone listening to ZB & Mike Hosking this morning heard more stories on looting but this time from official sources including the Napier Mayor and Police Minister Stuart Nash.

So these weren’t media beat-ups and Nash confirmed it is the Mongrel Mob.

Where Labour (Nash and PM Hipkins) are going wrong with all this is the lack of acknowledgement there has been a problem (for days) until now.

Where Labour are also going wrong bigtime (again, Nash and PM Hipkins) is that they are mainly all talk – they are not talking about action.

If Labour want to solve the gang problem (and restore the public’s confidence) then here is the answer (and it is simple):

Smash the gangs and smash the Mongrel Mob.

Obtain search warrants and raid their gang premises and leader’s gang houses.

The gangs have given Labour/Police a pretext – stealing power generators.

Raid the gangs and round up stolen goods (and any guns and drugs caught in the net). Raid them wide and far (not just one or two places).

The only thing gangs respect is being on the receiving end of a bashing, so bash the b*stards hard.

Problem solved, end of.

Well why not, unless Labour is soft on crime? If so then same old lame useless Labour Party under shiney new PM Chippie is toast in the election. Oh dear how sad never mind.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/02/cyclone-gabrielle-tensions-escalate-in-hawke-s-bay-as-thieves-and-looters-target-vulnerable.html
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February 20, 2023 8:28am
- backster
  
  Things have to be done the Te Ao maori way.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:51am
  - sirknz
    
    Are you advocating a return to cannibalism?
    
    Asking for a friend…
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:18pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I heard the mayor on with Hosking this morning, she tried her best not to put the government down, but stated police are short in numbers, the so called army roll out is out of sight out of mind, snd communities are blocking roads to keep gangs out, guns being waved at workers, this is starting to turn to shit for Hipkins, people may just remember how useless they are at delivery
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:01am
Maggy Wassilieff

It must be time for Politicians to stop making excuses for the violent and anti-social behaviour of Gang members in the Hawkes Bay.
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February 20, 2023 8:33am
- cmm
  
  Welcome back Maggy…. We were starting to get worried.
  
  It wasn’t long ago that looters were shot on sight. Now looting seems to be a traditional form of kai gathering.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:37am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    All has been very well on Kaiti Hill (and most of Gisborne proper)….apart from:
    No power for much of Tuesday
    No National Radio until Wed Afternoon
    Water restrictions throughout
    No cell phone Txt until Friday Afternoon
    No internet until last night….
    
    The last week has seemed a bit like Covid-lockdown deja-vue….been a fairly social occasion, catching up with neighbours and trying to avoid the queues down at the supermarkets.
    
    I’ve had 1 shower in the last week, but finally decided that I must use the washing machine as some dirty stuff had been in the machine for well over a week.
    
    Main lessons:
    *Always have a back-up supply of cash squirrelled away. (we discovered a cache of 20c pieces- totalling about $140).
    *Keep your hair short… I was forced to cut hubby’s out-of-control thick mane as he used too much water to shampoo and rinse it.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:04am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      That’s a lot of 20c pieces, Maggy. Were you keeping them out of Meng’s hands?
      
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      February 20, 2023 9:06am
    - Swifty
      
      Lovely to hear from you Maggy.
      
      Best wishes.
      
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      February 20, 2023 9:10am
    - Biscuit
      
      Great to see that Kiwiblog is back to its usual quota of Maggy/Maggie types.
      
      (Though don’t you just know that some saddo lowlife is gonna downtick that sentiment).
      
      Re your cash stash, years and years ago I won a ginormous bottle of bourbon – I just measured it: it’s 500 m tall – and, after, erm, ‘recycling’ the contents, have been using it as a repository for all my spare change each time I come home.
      
      Amazing how often you run up three or four hundred bucks…
      
      My record – and in those days I used to dump in one or two buck notes too – was over $830…
      
      Not sure of what the ‘capacity’ is as I’m fearful that one day the glass bottom will cave in on me!
      
      Anyways, lemme annoy the usual downtickers again, welk back, Maggy.
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:20am
    - Bob
      
      No National Radio until Wed Afternoon…..
      No Nat Radio, hardly a disaster, more a blessing.!
      Private radio were covering all the important relevant announcements.
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:39am
      - cmm
        
        For those that really must have their RNZ fix, there’s RNZ shortwave and satellite:
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/listen
        
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        February 20, 2023 10:53am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        RNZ is the Official Civil Defence/National Emergency Broadcaster.
        
        If the general Population can’t receive their broadcasts, then it’s not very good.
        
        Hubby has aerials up and every bit of ham radio /computer technology at his fingertips….. If he couldn’t locate their signal, I don’t know who would be able to.
        (It’s been his field of expertise for over 60 years).
        
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        February 20, 2023 2:25pm
      - cmm
        
        “RNZ is the Official Civil Defence/National Emergency Broadcaster.”
        
        Are you sure about that? They were not during the Chch earthquakes. It was the local radio stations.
        
        RNZ’s information was pretty crap during the earthquakes.
        
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        February 20, 2023 3:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Are you sure about that?
        
        Yes, I am.
        
        Radio New Zealand National is the designated Civil Defence lifeline utility radio broadcaster for all regions of New Zealand.
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/emergency
        
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        February 20, 2023 4:29pm
    - cmm
      
      Well it all sounds like you have been very sensible (as we’d expect).
      
      It astounds me how few people have water, food, gas, cash etc. especially in the Shaky Isles. We have enough stuff to go 3-4 weeks without nay inputs.
      
      It further astounds me how many people didn’t even sort themselves out when there were a few days of warning.
      
      Radio NZ not working??? Not sure if that’s a bug or a feature!
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:51am
  - Ruawai
    
    Arrest them and put them in stocks in the local square so people can tell them what scum they are.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:21am
- Maggie Pie
  
  YAY!! 😀 😀 😀
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The mayor is calling for extra police resources, it’s falling on deaf ears again, the public are setting up road blocks to keep the gangs out, this is rapidly turning to shit for this utterly hopeless government, Hipkins wearing gumboots and NEMA attire was never going to last, as usual delivery is zero
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And woke Coster. He was on the idiot box this morning.
  Jesus what a pampered pussy he is.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:46am
  - Clyde
    
    Coster was on Newstalk some weeks ago on a Sunday evening. Think it was 22nd Jan. Talked at length about his strong Christian background and beliefs. Said that he prayed most days for guidance. It is worth finding the interview as it gave me a really good insight as to why he should NEVER have been given the job. And an excellent insight as to why he WAS given the job.
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:52am
    - Bob
      
      He might be ‘praying’; but is he listening to the message?
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:40am
      - kowtow
        
        While the good folk of NZ are preyed upon.
        
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        February 20, 2023 11:57am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nope, he is not a listener, just ‘key’ words.
        
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        February 20, 2023 7:12pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Remember when he told all cops to shave their beards, only too see too cops still fully bearded, he was the only fool that shaved his😃
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:59am
  - RoboRob
    
    He is probably busy organising a BBQ and some booze / hookers for the gangs. That will keep them off the street.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Also on that idiot box, that Anna talking to someone in Lyllelton about aid for Gisborne.
    ” I see what looks like a ship behind you” Really? Der. It is not a tank stupid.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:36am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Welcome back Maggy. I hope that you and yours are in decent shape despite everything that’s happened down your way.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Txs..
    
    We weren’t affected by the cyclone.. just a rainy night with little wind here (I gather it was stormier down on the flats). Kaiti Hill must have deflected much of the wind.
    We had had more rain a couple of weeks previously and a much stormier night in December.
    
    So we were a bit surprised that the power was off on Tuesday morning and very little radio reception.
    (The power had gone off around 11pm on Mon night… but was on again around 2am, and 4;30am).
    
    It wasn’t until I managed to tune into local More FM radio station that we learnt that Gisborne was in Emergency mode and we must conserve city supply water.
    
    I have portable tramping/camping gas cookers.. so can manage until we run out of gas…. and I can manage on open fires….
    
    We have a large full water tank, 60 cu m)so no problem with water supply (as long as we can boil it for drinking).
    
    Hubby is a radio ham, so usually he’d have contact immediately with the outside world… but his emergency battery set had gone flat!…so he had to wait until power came on before he could connect to other geeks and exchange misinformation.
    
    It wasn’t until Wednesday that we heard via a neighbour that the Redcliffe substation had drowned.
    
    The main problem here for most people was the difficulty in getting communication with folks in the wops.
    
    Very few folks in Gisborne City suburbs have suffered any damage and with power and EFTPOS and Cellphones back on line, life is returning to normal for many of us.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:32am
- nathie
  
  Welcome back Maggy, hope you, hubby & household survived the disaster ok?
  
  Hopefully also you or your household wasn’t a victim of the criminal activity you are referring to?
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:59am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Our PM has said this is going to be tough – and lo, the media and the people are satisfied.
  
  Are you wanting something more Maggy?
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:59am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    As Mike Hosking noted this morning, Gisborne was the epicenter before being superseded by Napier.
    
    Who has the bigger clout – Kiri Allan or Stuart Nash?
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:03am
    - pdm
      
      Suze – Allen because of two factors:
      
      1. Allen has the right bloodlines.
      2. Nash had proved himself to be an incompetent idiot many times over before now.
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:21am
      - Paulus
        
        Remember Allen’s second wife/fiance is a leading Radio jock on RNZ daily at noon, so she has inside running against Nash and any others.
        
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        February 20, 2023 1:42pm
- Nickc2
  
  Our fearless Police Minister stated on the Hosking show this morning that the Police had/have Gangs under control.
  To that Mr. Police Minister, I say Bullshit.
  Your lot have had five fuckin years to deal with Gangs, and they’re still there, still committing crimes, still shooting each other and Police Officers, still controlling kids doing Ram-Raids, etc. Their crimes have become more brazen and your Govt does nothing.
  As an afterthought Stuart Nash, what return did the NZ taxpayer receive for the $2.75m of their money your lot gifted to the Mongrel Mob eh?
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:04am
  - RoboRob
    
    Slight correction, not only are they still there but there are now more gangs and many more gang members. Labour has succeeded in getting the media to not mention that the ‘person’ is a gang member when reporting on assaults and crime.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:32am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, that’s what happens under a dictatorship. Control/buy Te MSM, and you can do whatever you like.
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:37am
  - nathie
    
    The gangs have been emboldened because Labour are soft on gangs, soft on criminals and soft on crime.
    
    Oh how Labour (and their MSM cheerleaders) mocked Simon Bridges back in 2019/2020 he called for “Raptor squads” and to “smash” the gangs by hitting them hard, again and again.
    
    The Left laughed, mocked and ridiculed Simon Bridges and National, the MSM cartoonists lampooned him and painted him as an evil nutcase.
    
    But Simon Bridges was right and the Luvee crim-hugging Left were wrong. Not that they will admit to it. Of course not, gangs are problems for “others”, not them.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:42am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      And who do the media ho rushing to? That’s right Simon Bridges, he was even on the panel on the Newshub propaganda show at the weekend
      
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      February 20, 2023 11:32am
  - cmm
    
    I don’t know why people keep referring to them as gangs. “Gangs” is a very loaded word and has negative connotations.
    
    They are cultural organisations. Just like Lions and Rotary.
    
    I hope that they are also telling Lions and Rotary to pull their heads in too!
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:58am
  - Matt Long
    
    Sounds like a miscommunication and what he actually said is areas are under gang control.
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:10pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Looks like things have taken an even more serious turn 🙁
  
  East Coast MP Kiri Allen tells looters to…. “CUT IT OUT!”
  
  https://twitter.com/NewshubPolitics/status/1627395486285201409
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:08am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Did she stamp her feet for emphasis?
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:22am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      She was waffling utter crap on tv yesterday
      
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      February 20, 2023 11:33am
  - kevn
    
    @Maggie… What a joke.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    “Pull ya heads in”
    “It’s not the time”
    “Cut it out”
    Wow, such powerful statements from our MPs.
    I bet Chippy’s regretting declaring a State of Emergency and pushing his MPs in front of cameras and microphones. If he’d left the handling of the situation to local Civil Defence organisations, he’d probably be spared a great deal of embarrassment.
    Keep reading those scrips Chippy that have been written for you by your spin doctors.
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:34am
    - nathie
      
      Scripts written by those in the Wellington beltway are disconnected to people out in the regions and living in the real world in the cities.
      
      Labour won’t recover for their ineptness (eg for not dealing with the forestry slash until now nor ensuring early warning) and the anger out in the regions will only grow louder and louder over time.
      
      I seem to recall there was further calls to have inquires into the slash problems back in Dec/Jan after heavy rains at the time but Labour said “no”. Have I got that right?
      
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      February 20, 2023 10:51am
      - Nickc2
        
        AFIK, you are correct. It was the Greenz that didn’t want the slash removed because . . . . . (fill in your own reason) and Labour was seeking Maorification of the issue when Cyclone Gabrielle struck.
        
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        February 20, 2023 1:29pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And Nash told them to wind their necks in, gangs must be laughing their heads off
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:33am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, good to see you back on track and speaking of anti social behaviour..
  
  ‘While Newshub was there a vehicle that was told to turn around blasted on through the checkpoint, so they called the police. Tensions are running high with the reports of looting and here’s another reason why. At the next checkpoint just down the road, a traffic management worker who can’t speak on camera told Newshub he had a gun pulled on him by people in a vehicle refusing to stop.
  
  “We need the military police. You can’t have a couple of poor young teenagers at a checkpoint and the Mob or whoever it is saying, ‘You don’t let us through, we’ll kill you’. That’s not on,” Lovett said.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:12am
- Ghost
  
  Welcome back. We almost had to send Maggie Pie to the local Remuera Chinese Police Station to borrow a spy balloon to check up on you
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:27am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    It’s in Parnell silly!
    
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    February 20, 2023 9:33am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Not much to relay today except the Roadshow.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/our-maungakaramea-event-is-tonight-7pm/
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February 20, 2023 8:36am
oldgolfer

If the looters are not careful they might find themselves waist-deep in finest Esk Valley mud.
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February 20, 2023 8:49am
- Ehlana
  
  Is that from feet to waist or head to waist? The latter might be a better approach.
  
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  February 20, 2023 2:43pm
I remember when

A lot of mention of ‘slash’ in relation to the flood damage caused to bridges.
Do we need to clearly differentiate between what is clearly forestry caused ‘slash’ and what is wooden debris.
What has happened in Hawke’s Bay is being blamed on forestry and well maybe.
However, it is worth remembering that the Hawke’s Bay rivers have extensive catchment areas.
The Tutaekuri is around 100 kms long and has a catchment area of 840 km2.
The Ngaruroro is 164 kms in length and has a catchment of 1950 km2.
While the Tukituki/Waipawa Rivers have a combined catchment of 2500 km2 and length of 80 kms.
As well as commercial enterprises their headwaters are subjected to some extreme winds and rain.
This results in the ‘natural’ shedding of branches and other damage to trees.
Changes to the types of trees mean there are also changes to the sort and extent of this damage.
Is this the same as what occurred in East Coast/Gisborne?
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February 20, 2023 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Pine slash is the major problem around Gisborne and up to Tokomaru Bay at least.
  
  Sure, there are some willows, poplars and native shrubbery being washed down in the floods… but sawn logs and pine cones and pine bark on the trunks are dead give-aways for identification.
  
  I haven’t inspected the East Cape beaches and the Waiapu River closely…
  but native trees would be washing down from The Raukumara range…along with slash from the pine forests around Ruatoria.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300810598/the-river-valley-near-ruatoria-that-keeps-getting-hammered-by-cyclones-and-storms
  
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  February 20, 2023 2:39pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

The Washington Post reports that Chynahh surveilled more than 40 countries across five continents with their Spy Balloons.

Our very own ‘China Expert’ the wonderful Professor Anne-Marie Brady….predicts NZ was one of them!

https://twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1627220859856515072
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February 20, 2023 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  Bigly story in Canada about them interfering in the federal elections , using their fronts to work against conservatives for Turdeau .
  
  But our legacy media won’t give it much coverage , esp as it’s not Trump related.
  
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  February 20, 2023 12:01pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Word soup, What does it mean ?
  
  Surely not Balloons used to spy on NZ ?
  
  I’m really starting to think she’s got some serious mental health issues.
  
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  February 20, 2023 1:51pm
- NoCash
  
  I do wonder what does Professor Anne-Marie Brady think about Five Eyes.
  
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  February 20, 2023 3:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Democrats (162) vote for allowing illegals to vote.
Jim Jordan says ‘only Americans should vote)
The left went mad on twitter.
https://libertyonenews.com/libs-attack-gop-rep-for-protecting-voter-integrity-only-americans-should-vote/
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February 20, 2023 8:55am
- RoboRob
  
  The idea that you would allow people into your country illegally, know who they are and allow them the same rights as citizens (voting) is just crazy.
  
  I know its all about the feelz on the left but think about it guys. We are not talking about refugees here.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is what Joe wants
    
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    February 20, 2023 11:42am
G the giant from Dunedin

Ole Jimmy Carter in serious health at 98 years old
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February 20, 2023 9:01am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Good guy with a gun stops a bad person with a gun.
12 yr old takes down a thug.
https://rightwingnewshour.com/12yr-old-boy-snapped-took-down-thug-with-hunting-rifle-3/
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February 20, 2023 9:03am
- Maggie Pie
  
  YIP! Like my partner says…
  A gun in the hand is worth the entire police force on the phone.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:18am
  - sirknz
    
    When seconds matter, the police are minutes away.
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:29pm
Suze Wainwright

In this apparent new media phase of not liking petty, partisan politics, I wonder how long it will be before the sniping at National’s new electorate candidates will be?

They all seem to have impressive CVs
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February 20, 2023 9:08am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes, another very impressive candidate selected in Rimutaka, sadly she has no show, but she reads very impressive
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:10am
I remember when

Selected Significant Climate Anomalies and Events 2022: NOAA.
North America – tied with 2011 and 2019 as their 15th-warmest on record.
Hurricane Agatha – strongest May hurricane on record to hit Mexico’s Pacific Coast.
South Amrica – 12th warmest on record.
Africa – 10th-warmest on record.
Asia – second-warmest on record.
Europe – second-highest yearly temperature on record.
Japan – a heat wave in June marked the worst documented streak of hot weather in that month since 1875.
Oceania – had a top-20 warm year.

That 1875 warm streak of weather for June in Japan startled me.
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February 20, 2023 9:08am
- All_on_Red
  
  Excellent cherry picking- well done
  Also from NOAA
  ‘[D]ata for all year 2022 tropical storms shows that global wide, storms were at their lowest strength levels in the last 42 years (since 1981) as shown by the ACE (Accumulated Cyclone Energy reflecting the combined frequency, intensity and duration of all storms) data below from Colorado State University’s Department of Atmospheric Science which tracks NOAA’s National Hurricane Center tropical storm data.’
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/01/extreme-weather-events-declining.php
  
  ‘Colorado State University’s Department of Atmospheric Science/Tropical Meteorology Project has compiled the year 2022 tropical storm data (shown below) establishing that compared to its 30 year North Atlantic data records covering the Climatological period 1991-2020 the year 2022 hurricane season was below average in Named Storms, Named Storm Days, Hurricane Days, Major Hurricanes, Major Hurricane Days and Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE). ‘
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/04/despite-prediction-2022-atlantic-hurricane-season-fizzles-out-below-normal/
  
  Also NOAA
  NOAA’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory (GFDL) concludes the following regarding climate change and hurricanes.
  “In summary, it is premature to conclude with high confidence that increasing atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations from human activities have had a detectable impact on Atlantic basin hurricane activity, although increasing greenhouse gases are strongly linked to global warming… Human activities may have already caused other changes in tropical cyclone activity that are not yet detectable due to the small magnitude of these changes compared to estimated natural variability, or due to observational limitations.”’
  
  Here are a number of Temp Data sets.
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-temperature/
  We have seen around 1-1.2C warming since 1850
  So an increase of 0.07C per Decade- hardly scary.
  In fact, whilst we have Regional differences, Globally the average Temp seems to have paused…
  
  Btw- this is how land based Temps are measured.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenson_screen
  If you think they can measure Temps accurately using these to the points of a Degree then I have a Bridge to sell you, so pardon my cynicism when they cry ‘warmest evah, by .12C!’
  Lol
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:48am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Stevenson screen,
    Its was for mainly for nautical applications and most vessels still carry it.
    
    Not too sure how accurate Wikipedia is on this.?
    
    Regardless, You have a wet bulb and dry bulb.
    
    This is how you work out Fog conditions at sea and in higher Latitudes Icing, Extremely accurate for these conditions.
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:27pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      NIWA (and others) still use them. Its only the US which has gone Digital and they dont have many of those.
      ‘The temperature of the ambient air at the surface of the earth. This is usually measured in degrees Celsius in New Zealand, and is measured by a thermometer. The thermometer is normally housed in a wooden louvered screen called a Stevenson screen, at a height of approximately 1.3 metres above ground level. This screen allows air to flow through the thermometer enclosure, so that a representative temperature reading is made.”
      https://niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/common-climate-weather-terms
      
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      February 20, 2023 12:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just like NZ:
https://billingsreport.com/poll-people-who-think-the-msm-puts-out-fake-news-outnumber-those-who-dont-2-to-1/
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February 20, 2023 9:12am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

He just straight up assaulted us.
Poor little darling, lucky he did not grab you by the pussy!
https://billingsreport.com/one-man-gets-tired-of-vegetarian-climate-goons-blocking-the-street-single-handedly-takes-care-of-business/
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February 20, 2023 9:21am
RoboRob

Kaiapoi council is looking to open up land zoned red after the Christchurch earthquakes for building. What the absolute fuck?

We have just had massive flooding in the North Island and many people are asking why housing was allowed on the edges of cliffs or in flood planes. Yet people, who were alive for the earthquakes, think it’s a sensible idea to allow building on this shit land again.

For those who don’t live in Christchurch, before the earthquakes many people, including myself, used to wonder why land / housing near the airport was expensive but beach front property was cheap. After the earthquakes we all discovered that it was because the land in the now red zone, was crap and the council knew it when they first allowed building on said land. Who would have thought that people would be so stupid as to start building there again so soon. Its not as if Christchurch has a shortage of available, good, land.
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February 20, 2023 9:26am
- NothingLeft
  
  There are ways of building safely on land prone to liquefaction. Construct strong-backed foundations and make the house neutrally buoyant in event of a earthquake (ie mass of house equals mass of displaced dirt). It will simply float like a boat in a liquefying earthquake.
  
  Or embed better deep drainage, or add a meter or two of good draining material on top of existing land – costs maybe $1 million per hectare, way cheaper than what urban land sells for.
  
  Red zone land could be safely re-developed for housing, and would make a lot of money doing so.
  
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  February 20, 2023 2:28pm
  - Ehlana
    
    And after the leaking building issues we’ve had recently, do we have faith in our developers and Councils to get this right?
    
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    February 20, 2023 2:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden on thin ice. Well Joe, you said you ‘could’ do it.
Nordstream. If Biden gave the final order, it is an Act of War.
A radical wacko in charge of the Military. Not good.
https://billingsreport.com/biden-beware-germany-china-and-russia-demands-a-un-investigation-of-the-nord-stream-bombing/
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February 20, 2023 9:27am
Jimbob

I heard the death toll in the Hawkes Bay floods is going to be significant. Very sad time in NZ history. There has to be an inquiry into why the area was so under-prepared. Stop banks must be an issue.
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February 20, 2023 9:31am
- Gertie
  
  Maybe…there are certainly rumours abounding. How on earth people will be found when there is so much detritus and silt everywhere.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Their bodies will start stinking soon in the warm weather…(although so will the bodies of the sheep, cattle, horses & pigs).
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:10pm
kowtow

TV1 6 o’clock “news” broadcast last night was a live Podium of the truth with the pm , doing a lot of talking.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

And here was me thinking they weren’t meant to politicise this thing .
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February 20, 2023 9:33am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No, it means like COVID the opposition are not allowed to politicise, the arrogance of Newshub yo have MCunlty standing in from of a large Labour sign was utterly sickening
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:12am
- Flossie
  
  That same news bulletin referred to G Robertson as “Deputy PM”. Well they said those words when he was on the screen, and there was no sign of the REAL Deputy.
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:14am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    All the fool could say is this budget will be far bigger than usual, get rid for a credit down grade.
    
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    February 20, 2023 10:19am
- nathie
  
  Don’t normally watch One Woke News anymore but took a look on Saturday and all I can say is their coverage of the flooding disaster was rather poor (somewhat lazy and amateur) compared to Newshub’s coverage, who have several reporters in the region, hitching rides with anyone that will take them to places to report on the effects of the disaster.
  
  Doesn’t surprise me then to hear then they repeated the waffle of what their pay-masters were saying.
  
  No TVNZ – hold them to account! None of this waffle from Robertson (oh we will look at things), not good enough, the people of Hawkes Bay/Gisborne/Coromandel/Auckland west coast need more action, not words!
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:24am
- Bob
  
  Mcanulty did this big time for the Tv recently!
  
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  February 20, 2023 12:14pm
Maggie Pie

Sounds like Ma must have been listening to ZB. She just txt….

‘that stuart nash is as weak as nuns piss’
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February 20, 2023 9:36am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hahahahaha, like I said, he doesn’t want to be there
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:19am
Rusty

A letter to the herald this morning suggested that if 3 Waters had been implemented by now the disaster on the East Coast would never have been so bad.

Yeah right!

3 Waters like climate change are just words with nothing tangible behind it.

In fact if our govt and the Greens had not been so obsessed with 3 Waters and Climate change and had put more money and time into the infrastructure on the East Coast then maybe the disaster might not have been so bad.
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February 20, 2023 9:36am
- I remember when
  
  Rusty:
  So everyone would have had ‘safe’, chlorinated, drinking water and they could have contacted the authorities to have damage repaired immediately.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:45am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Oh FFS, so it would stop Mother Nature then would it? Ghez this is stating to shit me, what does 3/5 waters have to do with roads and farms washed away
  
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  February 20, 2023 10:21am
- RoboRob
  
  Heard a ex ‘water guy’ from Auckland on the radio a while back (pre floods). His strong opinion was that seperating waste water management from councils would make natural disaster management WORSE. The people running 3 waters would only be looking at a tiny pary of the equation not the whole picture.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:13am
- cmm
  
  Maori have a special relationship with Mother Nature/Gaia/whatever. Doncha know?
  
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  February 20, 2023 3:47pm
I remember when

Esk River:
The river has a catchment of 252 km2 and is 43 kms in length.
In the upper reaches there is the Esk Medium Hydro Civil Works Project, owned by Trust Power, that comprises two Run of the River Hydro schemes.
This scheme was completed in October 2013.
Should this project have provided some indication of the increase in river volumes and resulted in a warning?
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February 20, 2023 9:39am
- Steve Todd
  
  […] and resulted in a warning?
  
  I have no idea I. What do you think?
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The monitoring instruments failed.
  
  I assume they are connected via cell-phone towers.
  
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  February 20, 2023 12:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jeffrey Epstein’s associates are about to have their names made public.
Of the eight you can bet the Clintons are not in there, or randy Andy.
https://thepatriotnation.net/whoa-the-epstein-files-have-been-unsealed-and-people-are-in-some-major/
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February 20, 2023 10:02am
Maggie Pie

Bestie re-tweet sooo worth sharing 😀 😀 😀

TREMAIN: Deal

https://twitter.com/mrsrosieb/status/1627411662453239810
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February 20, 2023 10:26am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Maggie, I believe that of all of Tremain’s wonderful cartoons that might possibly be the best.
  
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  February 20, 2023 5:38pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    OMG yes….spat Chablis all over the keyboard! 😀
    
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    February 20, 2023 6:00pm
Jack5

Donna Miles, the ethnic-Iranian New Zealander who is in Stuff’s Left-wing stable, has amended her byline.

She’s no longer writing under the name Donna Miles-Mojab.

Today she is attacking Israeli “digital gangsters” on the Internet, and cites two journalists, a Filipina and a Russian, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for their work for freedom of speech. Donna doesn’t mention any of the freedom-fighters of Iran who have been paying dearly for their resistance.

C’mon, Donna, write about repression and resistance in Iran.
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February 20, 2023 10:43am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Selectivism is a strong left leaning crutch.
  
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  February 20, 2023 11:05am
Swifty

Andrew Bolt takes the ABC out the back and shoots it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0YF52YRUSo

Just for you Mutton…..
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February 20, 2023 10:59am
Maggie Pie

OK, I get it (well sort of)….but why is he in the hospital bed?

https://twitter.com/tammuzfamily/status/1625223288778784774
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February 20, 2023 11:22am
- I remember when
  
  A Caesarean?
  
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  February 20, 2023 12:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Or as one wag replied….A Colonoscopy 😀
    
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    February 20, 2023 12:44pm
Jack5

Bus services are being hit by lack of drivers. This, while scores of thousands of people are on the dole.

It’s easy to blame laziness. That’s bullshit. Surely only a mere 0.1 per cent of the population are content to loll in idleness. Work isn’t just about money. It’s about being part of everyday life.

The real problem must be the astonishingly poor performance of New Zealand in job training, and, to a lesser extent, idolising university education for all.

There have been desperate shortages of drivers in the past, such as in World War 2. These were met by big training schemes.

With cheap computer simulation (a PC or X box, a stand and pedals and wheel for a few hundred dollars), the amount of training road time in a vehicle could be reduced.

A smart country, especially one suffering from creaking infrastructure, an overburdened health system, and a serious housing problem, would look for smart solutions.

One could be to recruit to NZ driving teachers and set up schools with cheap computer gear for initial simulation training.

Christchurch is one city where the driver problem is serious. Some of the best bus drivers I give way to are women, and passengers say the same. There is an initial recruitment pool.

Christchurch’s new Mayor, Phil Mauger, got off to a rough start by seeming to be against free flow of information.

Mauger’s a former contractor, and if he isn’t one of the school of “just bring in cheap labour”, fixing the driver shortage would prove he’s not a fizzer as mayor .

(“Fizzer” – a fireworks cracker that just fizzes instead of firing with a bang.)

Driver shortage is wider than city buses. It’s hitting the trucking industry.

Where are the politicians and the media scribblers and chatterers on this ?

Are they overwhelmingly university social science graduates who think bus and truck driving is, well, an occupation for Asians? How colonialist!
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February 20, 2023 11:27am
- cmm
  
  The bus service is only hit by a shortage of drivers because of how it is structured.
  
  Buses run throughout the day with only very small patronage. On my regular passenger counts I see an average of around 2 passengers per bus. That is wasteful in everything: $, fuel, CO2 usage and, of course, drivers.
  
  There are few exceptions: one is the large number of cruise ship passengers that use the bus from Lyttleton to Chch and back. They could easily increase this by a factor of 5 at peak times by removing some of the unused buses out to Sumner or Bishopdale etc.
  
  As always, the problem is really that it is a subsidised operation and there are no incentives to make improvements.
  
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  February 20, 2023 3:35pm
BeaB

Such a relief to wake up on a sunny Monday morning and know I don’t have to worry about climate change. The Met Service says it’s down to the Māori gods and James Shaw says it’s Biblical.
Perhaps Labour could do a bit of penance for their wasteful extravagance and total incompetence over the past five years and try to placate the gods.
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February 20, 2023 11:27am
Ghost

A healthcare worker who was let go after failing to comply with the Covid-19 vaccine mandate has been awarded more than $43,000.

But the Employment Relations Authority said Andrea Hoyle could have received more had she not sent a 28-page letter to her employer with information from anti-vaccination group Voices for Freedom.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131275074/woman-who-refused-to-get-covid19-vaccine-awarded-43000
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February 20, 2023 11:30am
Swifty

Elizabeth Rata on the refresh of NZ’s school curriculum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn9SZkw7FvQ

Our institutions are lost to us. They are no longer ‘neutral’ nor objective nor secular.

They have become overrun and are now being used against us.

My god, even just five years ago I’d have never thought we would reach this point.
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February 20, 2023 11:48am
- Blog-aholic
  
  As she has clearly stated… it cannot continue, it cannot be saved…..it has to be binned.
  
  The fact they she can get no answers from the Ministry speaks loud volumes of the ideology that exists in that cavern.
  
  It is exactly like what Melanie Phillips speaks of….
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8gw1T3yo0
  
  Nothing can challenge the idea, it is absolute.
  
  The people who have created this indoctrinational curriculum must be hounded out of the Ministry for the good of all New Zealand children.
  
  Remember folks, our current PM is the Minister of Education and this horrid piece of CRT based religio-mythological junk come to life under his brief!
  
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  February 20, 2023 12:04pm
I remember when

Looking at photo of truck and damage to road at the ‘Devil’s Elbow’ on the Napier Wairoa road.
Shellie Evans Photography facebook has a great comparison showing the before and after shots.
Herald article says the photo (and others) show the scale of the task facing authorities to rebuild the Napier to Wairoa road.
Some of the damage looks to be ‘off the scale.’
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February 20, 2023 11:54am
- Tom Hunter
  
  https://www.facebook.com/shellieevansphotography/photos
  
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  February 20, 2023 2:53pm
Maggie Pie

It’s incredible the number of tweets appearing this morning calling for Jacinda to come back and take back the reins.

All getting hundreds of ‘hearts’ as well.
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February 20, 2023 12:41pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Shouldn’t that be “rains”?
  
  9 1
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  February 20, 2023 1:35pm
Hugh Jarse

I see a few comments around the place that the Greens stopped forestry owners in New Zealand from burning off blocks prior to replanting, thereby getting rid of slash, anyone know whether there is truth in that ?. It wouldn’t surprise me given the damage they have caused in Australia and North America with their no burn activism. The amount of washed down slash would seem to a contributing factor to the damage the flood water has caused.
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February 20, 2023 1:17pm
Alan Wilkinson

Further proof there is no problem this Government cannot make worse: https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/300806891/inward-research-funding-model-applied-to-outward-tertiary-sector

This can only have two outcomes:
1. Third rate Maori research fed to media.
2. Competent academics refusing to work with racist funders and leaving the country.
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February 20, 2023 1:34pm
Handyman

The increase in logging (and the subsequent slash issues) are due to green policies of the Labour/Green party.
Labour policy is to sell carbon credits by planting trees which has changed the economics of forestry.
Now forest owners can get substantial revenue from year 5 after planting rather than wait until harvest at say 27 years.
This has resulted in areas not previously economic for trees to be converted to forestry.

Also the looming reality is that the revenue from marginal, isolated, steep land might not cover the cost of harvesting. When these trees come to harvest there will be glut of trees in the wrong locations relative to processing or ports. The investors would have made their money by then (courtesy of the taxpayer) and could simply walk away.
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February 20, 2023 1:49pm
- gravedodger
  
  For some with remaining inquisitive brain cells, do we believe after the Carbon credits have been harvested and the land abandoned it will not be seized upon by some entrepreneurial outfit that will harvest timber and the slash will again block streams and destroy bridges, I have a bridge or two to sell. right now
  
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  February 20, 2023 2:43pm
Maggie Pie

NZH reports…

‘Costco NZ’ has just released its accounts for five months trading.

The top-selling items were Pork Floss and Crab.

WTF??

wtf
5 1
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February 20, 2023 1:52pm
- Ehlana
  
  Apparently, Pork Floss is made by “cooking pork shoulder in soy sauce and sugar, and then shredding it until it takes on a fine texture.” It’s a Chinese specialty and since it’s a dried meat product, maybe Costco is bringing it in cheap?
  
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  February 20, 2023 5:03pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Here’s my partner thinking it’s some sort of oral-hygiene product.
    LOL!!
    
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    February 20, 2023 5:43pm
Dougal10

Weather forecasters were crowing at the end of last week how accurate their forecasts had been. If this is true how can we have so many dead people?
8 1
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February 20, 2023 3:21pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Quite. Lots of warnings for Northland, Auckland and Coromandel. Even East Cape. But not for Hawkes Bay and Gisbourne.
  
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  February 20, 2023 4:20pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No, we were warned here in Gisborne.
    
    Neighbours and us had all storm-proofed their properties and most had laid in basic supplies.
    
    (we had had less warning about the 2 other storms this summer….)
    
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    February 20, 2023 6:08pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Hawkes Bay saying they got double the forecast storm water:
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/484492/cyclone-gabrielle-hawke-s-bay-regional-council-defends-decision-not-to-evacuate-esk-valley
      
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      February 20, 2023 8:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

PELOSI’S DAUGHTER CAUGHT ON TAPE SAYING THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION ON JANUARY SIXTH.
https://billingsreport.com/pelosis-daughter-caught-on-tape-saying-there-was-no-insurrection-on-january-sixth/
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February 20, 2023 4:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Chinese Spy’s.
https://spreely.video/v/1620101648/Trump-Promises-He-ll-Hunt-Down–Cast-Out-Chinese-Spies-If-Reelected-In-2024
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February 20, 2023 4:19pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  How come Trumpy was called a racist for saying “Chinese Virus” but Biden wasn’t for saying “Chinese Balloon” ?
  
  Asking for a friend.
  
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  February 20, 2023 4:56pm
  - Ghost
    
    Because one of them is Chinese owned?
    
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    February 20, 2023 5:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Which one?
      
      4 1
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      February 20, 2023 7:06pm
nathie

Look at this crapola from Green Party skuzbag James Shaw – he still thinks making Kiwi’s suffer by paying higher energy prices is the way to fix “climate change” … what an elitist “rich prick”!

He calls out the likes of ACT for calling for common sense “climate adoption” (but hang on, is ACT calling for “climate adoption” or “climate resilience” (like National is), or is James Shaw putting words in Seymour’s mouth or is it the same thing)? Then calls such people or likens them to “climate denialism”

What a elitist weasel! Using the deaths of many (because of Green mandated pine trees and slash, to supposedly break down naturally in the environment) to deflect attention to Green policy shortcomings, still promoting imposing higher costs on NZers (to hike fuel costs to force the public onto bicycles and trains) but not addressing infrastructure deficiencies that are both killing people and industry and the means for NZ to earn export dollars to pay for everything. And playing politics in the middle of a disaster to attack the Opposition in a rather cynical manner!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/the-front-page-james-shaw-on-why-climate-change-is-too-big-for-petty-partisan-politics/2N7QAYWRHZFRVNUBM74AKZEW2A/

James Shaw – congratulations you are already this week’s winner of the Vee Bee Awards! (NSFW)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vZTd4MHUKo
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February 20, 2023 4:52pm
Ehlana

Replying to Maggie above:

Because one came from China through the air and the other came from China through the air.

Surely you can see how they are different?
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February 20, 2023 5:18pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Aha….. NOW I’m wiff ya’ 😀
  
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  February 20, 2023 5:53pm
Maggie Pie

Looks like milkey’s finally got his arse out of bed 😀
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February 20, 2023 5:56pm
Ghost

An email from healthpost

The Therapeutic Products Bill:
It’s time to have your say

What’s changing?

The New Zealand government is again working to implement updated legislation on the production and use of natural health products in Aotearoa.

The Therapeutic Products Bill passed its first reading on 14th December and is now open for feedback– you can track its progress here.

Now is your opportunity to directly have a say on this important piece of legislation which looks likely to regulate our access to natural health products for years to come.

You can make a submission here before midnight, 5th March when submissions close.

What’s HealthPost’s position?

While we support the intent of the Bill to update regulations relating to natural health products, we do not support the Bill in its current form.

The Bill proposes regulation that is not fit for purpose and may reduce the range of safe, high-quality natural health products available to consumers.

Linley Butler (mum, to us) founded HealthPost 35 years ago because natural health products had helped her own recovery and she was determined to make these products more accessible. Her founding ethos stands true today. We want all Kiwis to have access to the widest possible range of safe, high-quality natural health products to support their wellbeing.

We agree that updated legislation for natural health products is needed. The Therapeutic Products Bill finally recognises that natural health products do have therapeutic benefits and would allow claims to be made based on scientific evidence and traditional use. The Bill also aims to ensure greater consistency of product quality and standards, which could benefit consumers and support export opportunities for NZ-made natural products.

That said, we are concerned that the Bill as it stands could unnecessarily restrict consumer choice in natural health products. Many natural products (such as spirulina and turmeric) are much closer to foods than to prescription medicines. The Bill’s ‘catch all’ approach to regulation appears – per the Regulatory Impact Statement – to be founded on an assumption of harm caused by natural products which hasn’t been qualified. We support regulation that is ‘risk proportionate’ and enables people to continue to access the natural products they know and trust.

Again, we support additional standards for natural health products and updated legislation that is fit for purpose. Read more here.
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February 20, 2023 6:12pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  There is no problem this Government cannot and will not make worse.
  
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  February 20, 2023 7:02pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hawkes-bay/300811575/cyclone-gabrielle-family-lose-home-of-50-years-caring-for-grandkids-and-uninsured
They have no insurance: sorry, but what do they expect other people to do for them ?
What have they bought over the years which maybe should have been forgone in favour of insurance ?
What is next ? Givealittle ?
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February 20, 2023 7:25pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  My thoughts exactly. Responsible people get insurance.
  
  4 0
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  February 20, 2023 8:31pm
  - Ghost
    
    Why bother with insurance when you have a government that will pay you out
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/government-to-pay-12m-to-uninsured-christchurch-red-zone-homeowners.html
    
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    February 20, 2023 8:39pm
Ghost

So, prime minister, are you saying people who are experiencing the crimes are liars?

The Prime Minister says there is “no state of lawlessness” in eastern cyclone-affected regions and no indication police need the support of the military.

At his Monday afternoon press conference, Chris Hipkins said police aren’t reporting an increase in crime and additional officers are in the region to assist.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/cyclone-gabrielle-pm-chris-hipkins-says-no-state-of-lawlessness-in-cyclone-hit-regions-no-need-for-military-support.html
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February 20, 2023 8:31pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  No increase in crime, yet additional police officers are being sent to the region. Hmmmmmm.
  
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  February 20, 2023 8:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There may not be an increase in crime. The crims have just transferred their activities from local urban & suburban sites to vulnerable storm-struck victims in the hinterland.
  
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  February 20, 2023 9:48pm
ClanMcleod

Jimmy Dore gets to the point.

They lied about:

• masks
• lockdowns
• natural immunity
• how we handle pandemics
• Pfizer didn’t even test to see if their jab stopped transmission

Those who still believe the narrative are “on the wrong side of history, 1000%.”

https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1627096625368961027

Those who still believe the narrative are in denial and too cowardly to admit they were scammed. It’s a tragedy, people I once admired turned out to be little more than jellyfish. It’s been a learning curve.
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February 21, 2023 7:35am

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