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August 23, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 August 2023

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General Debate

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Warren

The Labour Party has been caught out in there quest for a third term in Government and I believe the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins also has a lot to answer for his part in his Party’s demise in the latest polls.
You have to say Chris Hipkins our Prime Minister is like a wet sock trying to escape from the plastic wrapping because every policy he trumpets seems to fall short of what the voter has been expecting or he has stated they won’t come into affect until six months after the General Election.
So is it any surprise that Labour are getting canned in the polls because policy of ill though out of touch policy with at does not meet voters expectation.
Then this morning on Stuff the headlines read National leads polling in bellwether Napier with 23% of voters undecided in a Labour Party safe seat for the last 9 years.
What a difference 6 years makes and the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has a short memory of the pain, lies and smears that Labour put National Leader
Simon Bridges through, but now they are in the hot seat and the polls are holding Chris Hipkins our Prime Minister to account for which he does not like d has cried wolf on National Leader Chris Luxon for pointing out Chris Hipkins failure since becoming Prime Minister seven months ago.
The Labour Party has been caught out in there quest for a third term in Government and I believe the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins also has a lot to answer for his part in his Party’s demise in the latest polls.
You have to say Chris Hipkins our Prime Minister is like a wet sock trying to escape from the plastic wrapping because every policy he trumpets seems to fall short of what the voter has been expecting or he has stated they won’t come into affect until six months after the General Election.
So is it any surprise that Labour are getting canned in the polls because policy of ill though out of touch policy with at does not meet voters expectation.
Then this morning on Stuff the headlines read National leads polling in bellwether Napier with 23% of voters undecided in a Labour Party safe seat for the last 9 years.
What a difference 6 years makes and the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has a short memory of the pain, lies and smears that Labour put National Leader
Simon Bridges through, but now they are in the hot seat and the polls are holding Chris Hipkins our Prime Minister to account for which he does not like d has cried wolf on National Leader Chris Luxon for pointing out Chris Hipkins failure since becoming Prime Minister seven months ago.
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August 23, 2023 8:01am
- Dougal10
  
  I think your copy and paste had an issue.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It’s worth repeating.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:45am
    - greybeard
      
      You can say that again.
      
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      August 23, 2023 9:31am
  - Warren
    
    No it was meant a hurry and not reviewing it.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Don’t worry. It is a reminder of the lies told.
      Never again. Roll on Oct 14th.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:33pm
  - Che Guava
    
    I admire the dedication of people who pre-prepare a comment early in the morning or late at night the previous day in order to post at in the General Debate at 8am to get at the front of the queue, in order to get maximum exposure and optimise the dopamine hit provided by high levels of engagement.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:05am
    - Warren
      
      Well Che Guava my posts are subject to moderation and sometimes take between 30 minutes to 3 hours to be seen so where does that get me in maximum exposure, and I have been posting here for many years.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:45am
      - Che Guava
        
        That’s fine, Warren. No explanation necessary. I understand. Even if there is a moderation delay, you’ll still end up at the top based on the time the comment was posted. PS, I’ve given you an uptick. Please enjoy the endorphins.
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:57am
      - blue collar
        
        Love ya work brother wazza !
        
        No idea what brother guava’s on about , sounds like he gets off on ticks or top of page or something ?
        
        Weird .
        
        Brother Leo …… you n the captain should form a pedants society 😅
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:56pm
    - leoj
      
      Yes, time to prepare and be first into line yet loses credibility with the continued miss-use of the words “there” and “their”.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:53am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Also when people mis-use mis-use and write it as miss-use.
        
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        August 23, 2023 11:01am
      - leoj
        
        It appears we are both incorrect.
        
        There is no hyphen.
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Doh!
        
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        August 23, 2023 5:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hipkins was a huge part of the lying, especially when Ardern did not want to lie because of the fear of being caught out.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:46am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Now it’s refusal to talk about. Next will be total denial.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Best place for her to go, Denial, the river in Afrika.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:45pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Not to mention what he did to our Education System as Minister.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:29pm
- Vinicius
  
  Hipkins according to Stuff today thinks that the voters don’t understand Labour’s policies and aren’t aware of them.
  
  This guy is way out of touch. Not all the voters are idiots.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:58am
  - Bob
    
    Hipkins, and most of the Labour Caucus don’t seem to understand their own Policies; particularly the bit about ‘consequences’
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:44am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Vini bro – I disagree. Never forget 2020 elections and the three sets of traitors.
    
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    August 23, 2023 7:31pm
- I remember when
  
  There is nothing that Labour can do to prevent the debris of Cyclone Gabrielle reminding Hawke’s Bay voters of their ongoing problems on polling day.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:11am
- rouppe
  
  I watched the debate in Napier last night.
  
  I have to say the National candidate Katie Nimon was highly impressive.
  
  If I were in Napier I’d vote for her in the electorate vote.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:17am
  - jon
    
    Rouppe, Agree Katie Nimon was impressive. Thought the debate was very good too but watching online the sound system was wanting at times, esp with hearing Daimen Grant’s questions. Hope that is sorted out for the future debates.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:04pm
- Trev
  
  Failure for unneeded repetition Warren but general sentiment ok.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:44am
- Paulus
  
  Remember it remains a Jacinda Ardern Government from which she ran.
  
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  August 23, 2023 1:57pm
Tomtoddy

The Wall Street Journal reports that, “roughly one-quarter of state land in Hawaii is now covered by invasive grasses and shrubs, and those grasses are known to be highly flammable. Hawaiian Electric even commissioned a report, which concluded that the utility should do far more to prevent its power lines from setting invasive grasses on fire.

In 2015 a mandate created by the Democrat led government required 100% of the Maui’s utility’s electricity to come from renewable sources by 2045. Money was diverted from fixing failing power lines to “going green”. Hawaiian Electric devoted all its resources to renewable energy and next to nothing towards wildfire suppression. And now over 100 people are dead as a direct result.

“You have to look at the scope and scale of the transformation within [Hawaiian Electric] that was occurring throughout the system,” former utility commissioner Mina Morita said. “While there was concern for wildfire risk, politically the focus was on electricity generation.”

It ought to be a salutary lesson. Diverting funds to impossible, misguided projects like eliminating fossil fuels can have unintended consequences. And those consequences can be deadly. However, don’t expect any green nutter to put their hand up and take any responsibility in Maui. Or slow down the crazy net zero projects.
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August 23, 2023 8:03am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The consequences may be unintended (maybe not) but they are and were entirely predictable and predicted.
  Same with covid policies.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:16am
- Matt Long
  
  One quarter of state land in Hawaii covered by invasive grasses and other weeds; is DoC on charge of their publicly owned land as well as our?
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:24am
  - Opie
    
    No it’s under iwi control via government funding.
    
    The funding of course is only enough for fancy utes and piss ups, no actual work
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:45am
    - imalwaysright
      
      I wonder if lake Waikaremoana is still a mess from its neglect by publically funded iwi.
      
      By now you would probably need an archaeologist to find the walking tracks.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:10am
      - pdm
        
        imalways – mrspdm and I want to drive through there, Wairoa to Rotorua/Taupo but reluctant to make the commitment to do so because of:
        1. Personal safety.
        2. State of the roads.
        
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        August 23, 2023 11:54am
- cmm
  
  There are three things needed to make a fire: oxygen, ignition and fuel.
  
  You can’t control the oxygen (on a large scale). It is in the air. Winds will come. Can’t stop that.
  
  You can control the ignition sources a bit, but they will come from dropped cigarettes to sparks from power lines. One tiny match can start a massive wild fire.
  
  The only thing you can control is the fuel. Sure, you can’t eliminate it entirely but you can reduce it significantly – reducing the intensity of a wild fire.
  
  Thus any policy that encourages the formation of fuel is really a policy to encourage wild fires.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Responsibility can be controlled, but not after an incident.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:01am
  - Rusty
    
    @cmm
    
    The climate change alarmists are so obsessed with what is happening above the earth and our atmosphere but I would be more concerned about what is happening under the earth.
    
    Why are devastating earthquakes and volcanic eruptions happening more frequently in this world?
    
    They can’t say its climate change!
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:03am
    - Ghost
      
      No, they’ve already claimed that
      
      Climate change could be triggering more earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Here’s how
      
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      August 23, 2023 9:16am
      - Inandout
        
        Ghost, maybe climate change causes crime.
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:19am
      - Ghost
        
        Don’t you know Climate change causes everything
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:24am
      - Rusty
        
        @Ghost,
        
        Not hearing much at the moment on this but I wouldn’t be surprised if the hysteria starts on earth quakes and volcanic eruptions being blamed on climate change.
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:30pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        The funny thing is it’s cold that causes the most deaths, by far!
        
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        August 23, 2023 5:10pm
  - Ehlana
    
    There is a house that escaped the fires. It’s over 80 years old and built of a wood known to be fire resistant, but so is the neighbours house which did burn.
    It seems its survival was due to a metal roof and river stones for a metre around the house. Maybe something to think about as they build back. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lahaina-wildfire-see-the-nearly-100-year-old-miracle-house-that-survived/
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:18am
    - Inandout
      
      Eh, our 50s house has heart rimu framing (you drill before nailing), original UK galvanised steel roofing, thick concrete base around perimeter, t&g matai flooring and (stamped) treated matai weatherboards and rocks/rolls in an earthquake. Should be ok in a fire before brigade arrives.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:26am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    And of course you can and should put fire breaks around rural properties in particular. The Greens would want you jailed for doing so.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:00am
  - Trev
    
    The “Greens” policy of stopping fuel reduction burning, that mimicked natural fires in periodically reducing fuel loadings, has led to much more severe wild fires in many parts of the world. Some of the old ways had evolved for very good reasons.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw this in 2015. Magnum PI no doors helicopter. Flew around Oahu and the pilot pointed the grass out. Used to be pineapple and sugarcane plantations. Huge!
  Pilot said “one day it will all burn”
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:52am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I think you said that yesterday Steve.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Saturday.
      Such a great flight. Took off near the airport, then over Waikiki Marina the pilot flipped the aircraft on it’s side and said “how’s that Steve?” Response “fuck you!”
      He knew what he was doing using the banking force.
      
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      August 23, 2023 9:11am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        I do like the story, and it is on point, but when the pilot gave you a nasty fright you should have told him deadpan style and stifling a yawn, “I guess me being mentally strong, I can face most trauma.” 😉
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:32am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Fuzzy. Yes it did give me a fright, and not many things scare me. Even at takeoff it was a bit scary. It has no doors! After banking it sideways I put my trust in the pilot. It was a way of making me not scared so I could enjoy it. 300 odd photos between me and my partner.
        If anyone goes to Hawaii I recommend it.
        https://magnumhelicopters.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHR3TH7W_Gw
        
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        August 23, 2023 12:00pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Cheer Steve, it really is a Magnum PI chopper!
        Ah, the sound track comes into my head just looking at it! And the moustache!
        
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        August 23, 2023 12:17pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        There are a fleet of helicopters Fuzzy, different makes. Hughes 800?
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:49pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Forget 100+ deaths, there are 1400 people still missing, Water should be revered, not used.
  
  Not just government failure on letting wildfire fuel build up; not just forcing the utility to focus on unrealiables vs the power line; not just the fighting over using water to fight wildfires (an ongoing thing); but now the failure to get much more than S&R teams with cadavar dogs.
  
  Hells teeth, because of it’s importance as a military base the state has a very significant military capability: where’s that been to date?
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Water issues because of a woke wanker. Cultural bullshit. They worship water!
    Saving lives takes second place ffs.
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:52pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    No shortage of water. It’s an island.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:42pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Apart from we’re covered in lava, but yes, Maui may have that issue, the other islands don’t.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:31am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Makes you wonder why native bush has not taken over instead of invasive grass
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:39pm
Media hater

Random Thought: – We talk about Labour MPs being unemployable outside of parliament, but what job has Winston Peters ever done when he has been voted out of politics periodically since wwaaaayy back in 1979.
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August 23, 2023 8:04am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It’s why politics should be a vocation, not a next level, overpaid career path.
  
  If you want to study it as a part of a degree at university fine, but if you do so it should exclude you from ever being part of our system of governance.
  
  These days, too many do it because it’s easy money. Same with journalism. Once on the gravy train, with very few exceptions, they will say and do what they are told to ensure they stay on the train.
  The demise of trust in both over recent years can be directly attributed to this problem.
  
  The clear evidence is, the complete agreement and collusion of ALL mainstream media outlets and 99.9% of politicians regarding the provably fraudulent covid narrative.
  (Ignore Peters, we all know he’s taking advantage of a political vacuum for his personal benefit.)
  
  The fact is, in a properly functioning democracy it is IMPOSSIBLE for 120 out of 121 MPs to all agree on such a polarising topic. One which apparently 30% of the country have nobody to represent them.
  It is IMPOSSIBLE for every single mainstream media outlet to echo the exact same narrative without contradiction. It’s becoming the same with ‘climate change’, all media outlets repeating a uniform message – as predicted.
  
  That’s all the confirmation you need that we no longer live in a democracy. I hear North Korea and the CCP are studying us hard looking for pointers.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    North Korea and CCP can’t watch Ardern for pointers. How sad!
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:57am
  - Taieri
    
    That’s all the confirmation you need that we no longer live in a democracy.
    ———
    
    But have we ever? We have a great tradition of authoritarianism in this fine country. Ardern was just one of its many practitioners. Much of it has now been forgotten, unfortunately.
    Read “The State in New Zealand 1840–1984: Socialism Without Doctrines?” by Michael Bassett.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:02am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Taieri – I’ve only been here 32 years, but it’s horrified me what I’ve witnessed in the last 6. I’m genuinely in a state of shock.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:37am
  - Local Miller
    
    I made this comment during the 2016 and 2020 US Elections. There was no way that 100% of reporting for then HC and later JB was all roses and unicorns, and 100% of reporting for DT was all how terrible he is unless there is collusion and an agenda. It simply doesn’t reflect the real world.
    For all the TDS, there is no way most of what is being pushed can be true, as has been shown with Russian Collusion and the Ukraine phone call.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:15am
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    Not quite referencing North Korea. They have harvesting cash down to an Art form.
    SEOUL — As North Korea feels the squeeze of protracted international sanctions, the government is leaning on an army of state-sponsored hackers as a source of income.
    
    North Korean hackers stole as much as $1 billion in cryptocurrencies in 2022, a record amount, according to a United Nations report. This equates to 13 times the country’s total exports. Around 30% was used to fund North Korea’s nuclear and missile development, the report says.
    
    With so much at stake, the government is actively recruiting and training thousands of hackers. One’s status is largely decided at birth in North Korea, and one of the only ways to climb the socio-economic ladder is by becoming a hacker for the state.
    
    [Mod – when copy and pasting from another site please include a link to that site, and just a brief part of the article]
    
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    August 23, 2023 7:02pm
- cmm
  
  Employable outside of parliament – yes; employable outside of the trough – no.
  
  Referer: Dr, Dame, The Most Honourable Cindy.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She will now be on an annuity of $57K, free travel, Police protection (more than any ex-PM) A car? Gaylord also gets a bundle.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:22am
- greybeard
  
  I think he has fishing connections.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:35am
  - Colville
    
    Fishing for shrink wrapped bales??
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I was told Lawnmowers. God knows what that means.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:57pm
- david
  
  He became a “kept man from St Mary’s Bay” in the words of Cameron Slater. Probably living off the fat of the land with support from the racing and fishing industries.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:43am
Northshore

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The Auckland Central Library is in trouble.
As part of the drive to reduce debt, the Auckland Council have made many of their core staff redundant. Typically, the staff going are not at the top (where the real labour cost savings could be made) but at the bottom. So where does a member of the public now go to resolve a problem? The Auckland Central Library!
Library counter staff have been told – whether they like it or not – without any change to their pay and conditions – with minimal and inadequate training – that they are now frontline Council staff.
Most payments anywhere can be done on-line. You only contact an organization when you have a problem you wish to discuss with seasoned, experienced staff. No matter how well meaning and helpful Library people are, they don’t (and will not) fall into that category. Queues are forming at the counter. Library staff are struggling. Tempers are frayed. Meanwhile, essential library duties are being neglected.
Just to add salt to the wound, the research section of the library is now facing staff cuts.
The library was once a place to go and read a book or carry out some research. Now it is occupied by the homeless, who come to occupy the armchairs all day and use the toilets. The play Centre area for children is a dumping ground for parents who leave children there and go off shopping for hours at a time. Police are regularly called in to address public behaviour issues. Patrons who leave their bags or phones unattended, even for seconds, have them stolen.
Library staff are now resigning. I wonder why?
Waste of time talking to Wayne Brown about the problem he has caused. I don’t think he reads books.
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August 23, 2023 8:04am
- rangitoto
  
  The library was like that ten years ago. The last and only time I visited the place.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:34am
- pdm
  
  Hastings Library is no better.
  
  The last time I phoned the Hastings Library with a query the call went to the HDC Offices front desk. What the hell do they (or should be expected to know) about Library matters.
  
  I am sure Library staff are well capable of answering a phone (they used to be) and answering questions about Library procedures etc.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:49am
- I remember when
  
  Library staff are always, to a degree, frontline staff and the library would always be a place to ask questions, although not always expected to know the answers.
  I think that the homeless have been a problem everywhere and for some time before Wayne Brown’s election.
  What, parents leave their children unattended and then are unable to be contacted – Waynes’s fault or the real world?
  Police are regularly called to address public behaviour issues – that’s what the police are meant to do.
  
  Does without any change to their pay and conditions highlight their real argument!
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:47am
  - pdm
    
    IRW – homeless do not seem to be a problemin/around Hastings Library and I am a fairly frequent use. In there yesterday.
    
    They are around town though and even in our residential street which bounds Cornwall Park. Usually 3 or 4 cars a night – they seem to rotate around the park.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:01pm
- Burtland
  
  Central Libraries are just vanity projects – the new Christchurch Central Library isnt even called the central library, its Tūranga (google translates to status ?) The whole place is is kindy for maori learners including the digital index – last time they were all stuck in maori for language week. The lego pits and cafe seem the most popular along with architectural furniture for the homeless. $100M plus $7M annually
  
  Worse their historical collections seem neglected – our family had an ornate historical passport from the Earl of Warwick lodged there for safe keeping – they lost it.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:54am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    The vanity boondoggle to top them all has to be the $100,000 silk curtain in the Devonport Library, apparently not used during the day and only drawn at night time. FYI the library normally closes at 5:30 pm
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:32pm
Souvlaki

A VERY serious stain on the ethics of Labour’s oversight of immigration.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132784074/the-system-is-f-immigration-staff-say-bosses-knew-visa-system-didnt-work-and-ignored-it?cid=app-android
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August 23, 2023 8:05am
- Ehlana
  
  Remember when there was a party in politics that claimed to care about the ordinary worker and exploitation of the same?
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:11am
  - Matt Long
    
    The ones who crawled under blankets to apologise for dawn raids, then kept doing them?
    Or the ones who rabbit on about colonisation and slavery then create a class of indentured servants in New Zealand?
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My Grandad used to say that. Labour is the Party for the working man.
    Sorry Grandad, they are now a Party of socialists/communists.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      They used to be a Party for the working man. I think the problem may be that to a large extent, that core voting block is a vanishing breed. Many of the go to working class jobs in factories, freezing works etc have vanished and won’t come back in a hurry
      
      Labour had to find a body of voters to fill the void. They’ve spent the last 40 years creating these groups via academia and ideology.
      I was a Labour supporter for many years, I grew up with that whole ethos, the working man, factories, shipyards. It’s been quite a journey watching them implode and start to eat themselves.
      They need to vanish off the face of the earth or rename themselves ‘The Woke Weirdo Ideological Party’.
      Nothing about them relates to ‘labour’, certainly not pregnancy…..😂
      
      27 1
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      August 23, 2023 10:11am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The knowledge I have is extensive. 50 years at the same company making trailers, boat trailers was my specialty. But I learnt a lot of other things. Tool setting on machinery (pressbrake, Guillotine, 3 phase power, auto car gearboxes.) How many know how to set a car diff heel and toe with engineer’s blue? Strip and reco a V8.
        Now there is nobody to hand that down to.
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:05pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      As said by another KB poster, “Labour used to be the Best of the Working Class, now it is the worst of the Middle Class.”
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:37am
    - Scooter
      
      Now more like, Labour is the Party for the Woke.
      
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      August 23, 2023 5:33pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Back in your cagie, cagie, wagie, wagie
    
    Proles and Deplorables
    
    Continental Drift and Its Victims
    
    “The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs.
    
    “Forget your goddamned gypsum, and, if he has a problem with that, forget Ed Burke, too. The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin. What they need isn’t analgesics, literal or political. They need real opportunity, which means that they need real change, which means that they need U-Haul.”
    
    That’s National Review’s Libertarian Kevin Williamson, but here’s our own NZ blogosphere Lefty, Sanctuary, from the link about “Continental Drift”:
    
    Wah wah wah, cry me a river. I am heartily sick and tired of the whining exceptionalism of coasters and farmers. Plenty of people work hard for sweet f**k all, try being an all night cleaner in Tamaki’s industrial sprawl.
    
    The world is changing. Coasters seem to think they have a right to do what they want because, reasons. Nobody forces them to live in that rainy and dreary place. Yes, their way of life is out of date. So stop whinging that the rest of us have some sort of obligation to support a dying way of life, like some sort of giant outdoor paean to the 20th century and accept it.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:32am
- kevn
  
  Souvlaki… labour are a stain on NZ.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:27am
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Chris Luxon PM exit interview with RNZ circa 2028.

RNZ: Welcome to the studio Chris.

Chris: Its great to be back. You know looking around the studio I feel incredibly proud of the billion dollars my govt spent over the last 3 years on modernising the studios and RNZ’s whole purpose. We all know how vital it is to communicate the correct information. RNZ is at forefront of delivering the stories that need to be explained properly. Its great that Kiwis, little tamariki as you know I like to refer to ordinary hard-working Kiwis, know they can always get the objective truth from RNZ. That’s the KPI my govt has set for RNZ.

RNZ: You can rely upon RNZ to guardian the correct news to the little tamariki. What were some of the highlights of the government you led?

Chris: A whole lot. Laying the groundwork for a central bank digital currency, 15-minute cities rollout, various fast tracked joint ventures with global capital, implementing policy from the UN at the fastest rate in the OECD. But it’s the personal touches that will remain with me. After signing the new Crown treaty with iwi Willie Jackson came up to me with a wide grin on his face. Willie said Kai ora Chris bro you did the right thing in the end. Willie and I were so excited we hugged. To get such enthusiastic praise from your political opponents there is no higher pinnacle in politics.

RNZ: With a departing PM there are always swirling rumours.

Chirs: Yep I want to put some of them to bed straight away. I only started formal employment talks with Black Rock after I announced my registration. Black Rock have been looking for CEO for their Pacific division for a while. The remuneration on offer reflects the gravitas of the position. The role involves spending a lot of time in Washington DC coordinating international capital flows with correct political governance. RNZ’s recent in-depth news story on Black Rock was amazing by the way. I certainly intend popping back to Aotearoa from time to time. So long as it doesn’t affect my NZ non-tax residency.
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August 23, 2023 8:05am
- Media hater
  
  I’ll go out on a limb and say this will never happen. You do have a fevered imagination though.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:32am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  What sort of crap was that?
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:39am
  - David Garrett
    
    Capt: Rather clever “crap” I thought…highlighting that Luxon is a wet dish rag, and a conservative with a minute size “c”
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:05am
    - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
      
      Hedging your bets is a strategy for winning.
      Winning means getting the middle class Women’s vote. Very few election promises become policy. There are many Women who vote on the appearance of a candidate. Luxon fights a clever first few rounds, takes a few shots, adjusts his game. He will win. Only then will you see the real Christopher Luxon.
      
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      August 23, 2023 7:13pm
  - Jack5
    
    If there is still an RNZ in five years, will the staff be speaking English?
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:16am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    what is National going to do should it win this November beyond babysitting the institutions of Labour and the Left. Nursing those things along, tiring all the time and steadily losing votes simply by being in Government and getting blamed for the insanities of those self-same institutions. Until the day comes, one or two election cycles down the road, when a revitalised Labour gets back into power and gets to push forward some more. Ratchet Socialism at its best.
    
    Me on this forum in 2008.. Yeah, we had nine pretty good years with Key, English, Joyce and Ryall, but they could not be in power forever and in departing they left behind a whole bunch of things that Labour could engorge with money – with a few other things that could be weaponised.
    
    I fear that’s what we’ll be looking at again come 2029 or 2032.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:48am
- David Garrett
  
  Simon: Very good Sir…can’t quite see why you are being heavily down ticked.
  
  While I of course hope Luxon is PM after the election, that doesn’t change the fact that he is essentially a wet dish rag.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:01am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    His support for zero carbon 2050 is depressing.
    
    18 1
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    August 23, 2023 10:41am
    - leoj
      
      Equally depressing is his failure to address the ToW and its true meaning via a referendum.
      
      I hope Seymour has the balls to make this a bottom line issue and sit on the cross benches when Luxon balks.
      
      It’s not often I agree with Garret but “wet dish rag” is quite apt for Luxon, the Wokester.
      
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      August 23, 2023 11:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fiction, but good fiction. Uptick.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:36am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Quite possible, but with ACT slapping him around, hopefully not.
  
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  August 23, 2023 5:11pm
Planet B

How are the Kiwiblog Neocons handling the Ukraine war, still waiting for Russia to lose?
19 31
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August 23, 2023 8:05am
- All_on_Red
  
  Any reports from the Front Lines of our brave ex-criminal poorly equipped Soldiers?
  Onward to Victory Tovarishch!
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:25am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    None that I’ve seen. How’s that ‘counter offensive’ working out? Just waiting on the F16s I’m guessing…../s
    
    11 13
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    August 23, 2023 8:38am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Guess your ‘source’, the retired Marine Sergeant living in Thailand is off line huh
      Lol
      
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      August 23, 2023 8:51am
      - Grunter
        
        Tucker Carlson sums it up nicely.
        
        The MSM says the opposite – guess who will be proven to be correct……??
        
        https://www.zerohedge.com/political/us-brink-catastrophic-war-could-easily-destroy-us-col-douglas-macgregor-tells-tucker
        
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        August 23, 2023 9:11am
      - Planet B
        
        Go on Red, give us poorly informed apologists a real update. When will the Ruskies gallop off with their tails between their legs?
        
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        August 23, 2023 9:13am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        My ‘source’? Dream on. It’s quite surreal seeing people who can articulate well on most topics are somehow unable to see through the bs narrative in western mainstream media.
        
        Ukraine is being decimated one meat grinder at a time, nothing the west has sent them has made a jot of difference. The tragedy is the massive loss of young lives on both sides for what is clearly a US and NATO proxy war against Russia.
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:45am
      - rangitoto
        
        Well the orcs have been driven out of Robotyne and Urozhaine in the last week. Ukraine special ops inside Ruzzia have destroyed a few strategic bombers hundreds of km from the lines. They even raised a Ukraine flag in front of the the FSB building near one of the airfields where a couple of the bombers were destroyed LOL. Troll level 10.
        
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        August 23, 2023 12:29pm
- emmess
  
  Russia is losing ground
  Not that fast admittedly, but still losing
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:43am
  - bjools
    
    Yes
    I did not get why Russia fought the war the way they did?
    From the beginning Ukraine forces were split on 2 sides of the country.
    Instead of exploiting the open ground between them and splitting them in half. Then focusing on , what would be surrounded forces in the East (Donbas) and destroying them first.
    They chose to split their own forces, hold the dombas and try and win directly as well as attempt to attack Kiev???
    Therefore
    1.splitting your own forces, weakening each set.
    2. most importantly…attacking them where they were strongest.
    I believe…that they believed, that the Ukrainians, a fiercely proud and nationalist people, would just step aside and let them in.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:57am
    - Grunter
      
      Putin, if you want to believe him, has laid it out several times;
      – Russia initially went in to pressure Ukraine into a negotiated settlement and allow the eastern Ukraine to vote on becoming part of Russia or not (as per the Minsk Agreements).
      – this plan was on track, including a negotiated deal done in Turkey with Zelenskyy (March 2022). Then the clownman Boris Johnson flew in and scuttled the deal. Zelenskyy pulled out of the deal and went to war with NATO backing thinking they could smash the Ruskies.
      – Putin didn’t plan initially for this development (it was that stupid), and so now they have the horrendous carnage with probably over 500,000 dead young and middle aged men. And the nut job Zelenskyy firing drones into Russia bating the worlds largest (or maybe 2nd largest) nuclear weapons armed nation (6,000 nukes??).
      
      Again, you don’t have to believe any of this, your choice. But definitely don’t follow the rubbish in the MSM, particularly the BBC, CNN, and any NZ media etc.
      
      And no, I’m not a Putin fan. But just bewildered at how ridiculous Zelenskyy and NATO are. And how unbelievably dangerous this all is. Wake up to what is motivating ‘The West’ and how pharked up and inter-connected this all is. This is not a Hollywood “Goodies vs Badies” movie that has a happy ending……
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:30am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Putin should not have invaded, nor used military force to settle boundaries. Ukraine was not about to become part of NATO, and even now they still are not. Nor should they be, as there is a long standing (Soviet era) anxiety about there being a buffer with Western Europe. The prudent thing is to never accept the Ukraine in NATO, but not accept the Ukraine being forced into being a psuedo SSR-state.
        
        The ethnic mix of the people inside the borders of the Ukraine in the East is not a reason to forcibly return the territory to the motherland at bayonet point.
        
        Once, another authoritarian used nationality and ethnicity to demand the adjustment of borders with Czechoslovakia.
        What was conceded in the 1930’s “Peace in Our Time” should be resisted in 2020’s.
        That same authoritarian also used ‘referendums’ to extinguish other nations or legitimise occupations.
        This is not about whether Ukraine is good or not, but borders are not erased by tank tracks or polls run by the would-be conquerers.
        
        I dont much care that both countries are corrupt. Putin is basically running a kleptocracy in any case. The war (‘special police operation’) came from the Russian side.
        
        If ethnic Russians in the Donbas were allegedly suffering, then Russian should welcome them into the motherland as citizens of Russian rather than saying of the Crimea, and the Donbas “Gibsmedat” and then sending a tank column in towards a sovereign states capital city.
        Unacceptable.
        To give the aggressor the moral authority of the people who are defending their sovereign lands is terrible mental gymnastics.
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:53am
      - Planet B
        
        Funny how many are blind to this. 500k dead is pretty accurate and by and large these are young Ukrainians sent to certain death for a NATO proxy war. All these people with their Ukraine flags saying I stand with Ukraine are responsible for these deaths. And then you get the morons on here claiming that Russia is in retreat and suffering under the might of the Ukraine armed forces. Believing this in early 2022 is forgivable. Still believing this now is proof that people only hear what they want to hear.
        
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        August 23, 2023 11:11am
      - bjools
        
        None of that scans.
        My plan would put way more pressure on, with the Dombas forces surrounded, a deal would be the only way out.
        
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        August 23, 2023 11:12am
      - rangitoto
        
        Putler has sent 300,000 Ruzzians to their deaths. He should cede all the land annexed since 2014 and also Belgorod which is traditional Ukraine territory.
        
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        August 23, 2023 12:45pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Fuzzysnuggleduck your assessment looks accurate to me!
        
        What to do now that they have invaded though. The war needs to be stopped now with intensive negotiations between tried and trusted negotiators. It’s currently just a pointless meat grinder with no end in sight.
        
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        August 23, 2023 5:16pm
    - bjools
      
      BTW
      This could have been avoided, if the world didn’t have a US president more interested in his own bank account than actual results.
      Ie
      As Russia was building up, send 2000 special forces to Ukraine, fully armed and ready….to say…serve tea to the elderly.
      With a note….Mr Putin, YOU don’t want war with us.
      1. You are not the USSR, you are far weaker and we are not afraid.
      2. We are the Big Dog now.
      Instead of saying “we don’t want to provoke WW3” say You don’t want war with us, Mr Putin.
      Taking the front foot and reversing the premise they made,
      
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      August 23, 2023 1:21pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “1. You are not the USSR, you are far weaker and we are not afraid.”
        
        In terms of nuclear capability, they pretty much are the USSR.
        
        As in the Cuban missile crisis you don’t escalate. You negotiate and get it sorted very quickly (even behind the scenes).
        
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        August 23, 2023 5:23pm
      - bjools
        
        NZer in exile 5:23PM
        “As in the Cuban missile crisis you don’t escalate. You negotiate and get it sorted very quickly (even behind the scenes).”
        Your knowledge of history is woeful.
        The US navy. under the Cuban missile crisis, blockaded all routes to Cuba, for the missiles.
        They dared the USSR to cross the line.
        The USSR turned around and NEVER came back.
        It was brinkmanship of the utmost, negotiations were by force and will of the Kennedy administration.
        Not some passive talk fest.
        
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        August 23, 2023 9:05pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Bjools, I’m not a general history buff that’s for sure. However are you aware The USA did a secret deal with the USSR where they took ICBMs out of Turkey? Perhaps you don’t know as much as you think you do? Could that be possible?
        
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        August 26, 2023 9:26pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The European summer has seen a long attritional phase without much movement on dug in defense lines during which the Ukrainians have been destroying the heavy weaponry and most skilled personal of Russia at an eye-watering rate (eg several thousand Russian field guns and many hundreds of tanks and APCs destroyed in last few months). But defensive cracks are now starting to show. The Ukrainians have in the last week started to make significant advances against depleted Russians in the south, as well as on bridgeheads across Dnipro river in Kherson. Russian logistics and particularly artillery cover are showing signs of exhaustion.
  
  Ukrainians have also figured out a way to spot mines using thermal cameras at dusk – the mines cool slower at end of day than fields they are in, so Ukraine can now fly over identifying and accurately locating many mines and more generally minefields allowing them to skirt around them and more rapidly de-mine when necessary. This helps enormously in planning assaults.
  
  Possible we are seeing start of collapse in Russia’s southern defenses, but more likely they get slowly beaten back over next few months before mud season halts progress. I’d guess perhaps 10-20% chance Ukraine get to sea of Azov and retake south (though not Crimea) before end of year.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:30am
  - Planet B
    
    Cool story did you make that up or did someone tell you that
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:04am
    - NothingLeft
      
      I’m sorry if it’s non-Kremlin approved talking points are not to your taste, but I prefer to read a lot of different sources. Probably most even handed and comprehensive of which is:
      
      https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-21-2023
      
      And most detailed tracking analysis of front line movements and battles and looking through lots of Russian social media and using satellite photos is Andrew Perpetua:
      https://youtu.be/SejHIwCYPRc
      
      If you just want to track battle lines (there is option to look back over time, and plot known defensive trenches) the Deepstate maps are pretty handy. https://deepstatemap.live/en#10/47.4063/36.9525
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:43am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Its notable that so far, you are the only one to put up a source. (Isn’t General Petraeus involved with ISW?)
        None of the others put up sources or citations.
        I see ‘Grunter’ was telling us in March that there would be no Ukrainian Summer Offensive because NATO had no ammunition.
        ‘Grunter
        Zelenskyy’s finally admitting what several commentators have been saying for months – NATO have run out of ammo. https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/world/europe/20230325-99649/
        So there won’t be any NATO spring offensive. The entire sad situation has been a waste of 100,000’s of lives when all NATO had to do is implant the Minsk Agreement.
        Thumb up 19 Thumb down 10REPLY REPORTMARCH 29, 2023 8:16AM
        
        How did that work out?
        Surely the mighty Russian Convict Army with 50 year old gear should have been in Kiev by now. Whats going wrong?
        Onward Tovarishch, to Victory!
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:28pm
    - herb1
      
      Unlike you he probably listened to the regular interviews with 3 or 4 star Generals , who actually have some concept of battlefield management
      
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      August 23, 2023 11:02am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Are you seriously believing that nonsensical narrative?
    I’ve seen plenty of evidence of the destruction and capture of Ukrainian positions and western supplied equipment. Including in western media.
    No doubt Russia is losing stuff too. Why do we see next to nothing of these ‘successes’ in the western media?
    
    The Ukrainians haven’t even reached the first line of Russian defences yet.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:50am
    - NothingLeft
      
      The nature of siege (eg trench) warfare is that it’s attritional on mostly unmoving lines. You see no noticeable movement for long periods as each side tries to wear down the other, until one eventually collapses generally due to running out of weapons, troops or food – which might be the first noticeable change from a distance. Like a game of Jenga it all looks solid until it falls.
      
      As examples of this: trench warfare in WWI was positionally fixed for years before German collapse – and wasn’t clear who would win even a few months earlier, and Allied western front in WWII spend almost 6 months on German border over winter ’45 attriting defenders before taking rest of Germany relatively quickly in the spring – a long time even if they knew the eventual outcome.
      
      The Ukrainian conflict is a new experience because we see 10’s of video clips from front lines from both sides daily, as well as a lot of social media and intercepted phone calls from soldiers to paint a clearer real-time picture of balance of wins/losses, and also lay bare any lies/propaganda on both sides. That’s making it clear to anyone watching closely that things are going really badly for Russia who are scraping the bottom of the barrel as a fighting force.
      
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      August 23, 2023 11:50am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I’ve bookmarked this thread to revisit in a year or so. Be interesting to revisit it. Not to gloat, simply to see how it all transpires.
        
        2 years ago the response to anyone critical of the covid narrative, vaccines etc, would have been downticked 2 to 1. It was interesting to see that ratio move over the intervening time. It will be the same with the Ukraine war conversation.
        
        I’m not saying which way it will move. As more information emerges, it will move.
        I’m writing what I believe based on what information I’ve gleaned. If that changes then I will change position with it, as any rational person will.
        
        Just as happened with the covid narrative.
        
        The most worrying aspect of covid (and the climate narrative) is that our politicians and media are in lockstep on these narratives. A very real concern.
        
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        August 24, 2023 8:12am
  - Grunter
    
    Lets all hope that you (and the BBC) are wrong!
    
    Just think ahead for a moment, and assume that somehow NATO smahes the Ruskies, and that means smashing them inside Russian territory in order to stop them fighting in the Donbas (which in Russias eyes is now part of Russia).
    
    What does Putin then do?
    1. Surrender? If he does the hardliner Ruskies (they absolutely exisit and they make Putin look like a poodle) will takeover and start pushing big red buttons to “save the Motherland”. OR…..
    2. Immdeiately defend at all costs “to save the Motherland” (push big red buttons).
    
    Why would anyone in their right mind ‘kick the bear’ in his own cave when the bear has 6,000 nukes?
    
    CRAZY CRAZY STUFF……. But Hey “Go Zelenskyy – Man of the Year!!! FFS
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:08am
    - Cinematic
      
      Yes and no. Putin will be removed. Someone else will surrender.
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:00pm
      - Grunter
        
        You hope…….. then what?
        
        It simply makes no sense for Russia to surrender. Why would anyone do that and get takeover by the nutty west led by Biden?
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:59pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Cinematic – remind me the last time Russia surrendered in a war.
        
        26 million dead in WW2 and there were no nukes involved. I think you might need to listen to Grunter.
        
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        August 24, 2023 8:14am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    “Ukrainians have also figured out a way to spot mines using thermal cameras at dusk – the mines cool slower at end of day than fields they are in, so Ukraine can now fly over identifying and accurately locating many mines and more generally minefields allowing them to skirt around them and more rapidly de-mine when necessary. ”
    
    The use of new technologies, improvisation or new ways to use existing technologies has been very interesting in this conflict.
    I dont recall such innovation in the preceding ‘wars on terror’ and such.
    The use of drones to drop basic AP grenades for instance was something I thought jihadis would have done in Europe, but this is the first time I have really seen it done – and to great effect upon Russians in slit trenches, or the open hatches of a main battle tank. And the ever present eye in the sky makes for great video, although I do feel sorry for the troops on the ground when I see them receive a barrage out of the blue – they don’t seem to be aware of the device in the sky most of the time. Probably just a dot like a skylark, or else buzzing down and covered by other noises.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:13am
  - Cinematic
    
    Correct.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:58am
- NoFax
  
  Planet B – Why would you want Russia to win? A very odd position to take to say the very least. You can parrot Russian talking points (Neo-con? Really???) and falsehoods as much as you want but the reality is that Russia invaded a sovereign country and the war could stop today if Putin withdrew. If you were really concerned about Ukrainian deaths then the quickest way to stop the war is demand Putin return home.
  The so-called threat to Russia that Putin is allegedly worried about is the success of former Soviet countries. It’s not NATO invading or nonsense talk of proxy wars. This war was, and is, about the survival of Putin regime and after all the usual word salad that Putin fanboys love to use, Putin is about Putin. Successful states like the Baltic states or Ukraine will show how inferior Putin actually is.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:43am
  - Grunter
    
    NoFax – so explain what happens if Russia lose? They roll over and allow the west to take over their country leaving their 6,000 nukes in the silos?
    
    That will simply never happen.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:04pm
  - Planet B
    
    There is a difference being deluded about the reality of what is going on and “wanting Russia to win” no one wins a war just lots of kids die in the name of some theoretical high ground. As a more astute commenter mentioned above. This would have been over by March 2022 if NATO hadn’t told Zelensky they have his back. Now 400,000 Ukrainians are dead and the place has been ruined. 100% of their economy is now funded by the U.S. tax payer and a few other nations tossing in a bit. It has ruined Germany, this winter is going to have an energy crisis for Europe and Bidens Whitehouse don’t want to admit they fucked up because they have an election to try and win. Meanwhile people who think they know what’s going on read ludicrous propaganda on how well Ukraine is doing and try and write a report on Ukraine can and will win. If dying in trenches is going well then they are nailing it. There was a negotiated deal in March 2021 before anyone had died. Please explain how that wasn’t the best option for both sides.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:06pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    “It’s not NATO invading or nonsense talk of proxy wars.”
    
    Your lack of knowledge re this conflict is concerning.
    And calling someone who disagrees with you a “Putin fanboy” is as chidish as it is tiresome. Debate your position.
    
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    August 24, 2023 8:17am
Bridgenag

This one is one to listen to with you cup of coffee……. His best comments at the end
Safe and Effective?
Charlie Sansom’s Story

Charlie Sansom is a musician, DJ, and Conservative political commentator who gained a degree of infamy when he resigned from the UK Conservative Party as an Area Chairman – live on air. In part this was in protest at the Conservative Party’s Covid response.

https://www.thenewera.uk/p/safe-and-effective?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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August 23, 2023 8:08am
- Gravelroad
  
  Wow – one of the inmates here was just saying 10 minutes ago (having earlier read about Mr Woodhouse) that it would be a shame if National was going to stupidly sacrifice competence for manufactured diversity.
  Who to believe?
  The media generally still on board with the kind socialists apparently – especially if they are paying.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:27am
Tricati

Yesterday I listened to an interview with Simeon Brown over Labour having time on major news outlets under the guise of a government minister being interviewed on a topic, only to find out Labour had in fact ‘purchased’ the time to push their agenda.
https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/simeon-brown-reacts-to-mainstream-media-s-latest-government-sell-out
This coupled with an interview with Michael Woodhouse on Hosking’s show, where Woodhouse categorically denied saying he was dumped over diversity, and that he didn’t say National had abandoned Dunedin. He said he has a recording of the interview and suspect he would happily share to show he has been totally misquoted.
Seems the Hitting Back promised by Chippy is being led by a dishonest and biased MSM – Go figure.
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August 23, 2023 8:08am
- NothingLeft
  
  Legacy Media still supporting Left as NZ voters abandon them. This is my surprised face.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:36am
- imalwaysright
  
  Tricati, it is corruption.
  
  In any moderate country these people would be doing jail time.
  
  In New Zealand they face the unenviable, cruel and inhumane punishment of a public clutching of pearls.
  
  They then go to work the next day and do exactly the same thing because they know the New Zealand public can’t be arsed clutching their pearls two days in a row.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:31am
Nickc2

Well, I guess I had better get back in my box.
I was planning to give Michael Woodhouse a massive spray this morning due to his alleged comments about missing out on a higher list ranking.
It now transpires that this fiasco is nothing more than a journalistic beat-up.
Be aware, Labour’s dirty tricks campaign is underway.
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August 23, 2023 8:09am
- Lance
  
  I’m going more for the ODT were bald face lying.
  Michael Woodhouse said on Hosking that he had a recording of the interview and he NEVER said he missed out because he was male and Dunedin was being abandoned by National.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:00am
  - Burtland
    
    he reiterated this on RNZ this morning, seems ODTs Mike Houlahan smeared him, NZHerald repeated it – Labours orchestra of the left
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018903792/national-mp-says-lack-of-diversity-in-safe-blue-electorates-pushed-him-down-the-list
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:49am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Clearly Woodhouse has had issues with the ODT in the past, so he took the precaution of recording the interview. That’s probably something every National MP or candidate should be doing, for their own protection.
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:40pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Surely there must be a legal response to this.
      
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      August 23, 2023 5:13pm
- David Garrett
  
  Nick: I am unfamiliar with the phrase “a massive spray”; i.e. I don’t know if it means praise or opprobrium.
  
  I myself hope Mr Woodhouse DID say what is alleged: frankly I am sick to death with the focus on “diversity”, which is making the old jokes about one legged Maori lesbians as candidates less and less absurd.
  
  I was in parliament with a guy called Shane Ardern, who by coincidence had been a client of mine when I was a lawyer in New Plymouth. I found Shane to be a smart and onto it guy, even if he didn’t have tertiary education.
  
  He told me he was resigning because as “just another middle aged white male” he had no chance of getting into cabinet. So he returned to the farm, where he no doubt earned considerably more than he had as a Nat backbencher.
  
  Woodhouse knows he isn’t going to get back via an electorate seat – I wish him all the very best for the future.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:14am
  - Nickc2
    
    FYI David, my spray would have been verbal, and not condescending towards Woodhouse in any way whatsoever.
    As for one-leg Maori Lesbians, I’ll leave that one alone as your innuendo is no doubt correct based on your experience.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:41am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Shane is a good bugger. He’s still around, farming in Taranaki, where he pioneered a milking shed that can milk 600 cows an hour.
    
    https://www.farmersweekly.co.nz/news/fastest-milking-shed-in-the-land/
    
    He still pops up at National Party functions, and has given plenty of down-to-earth political advice to our candidate for the Whanganui electorate, Carl Bates. He is best remembered for driving Myrtle the tractor up the steps of Parliament in 2003 in protest at Helen Clark’s proposed Fart Tax.
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:48pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I think he’s most remembered for having a cousin
      
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      August 23, 2023 9:55pm
- Grunter
  
  The Otago Daily Times is now a nasty left-wing, woke, and racist rag. Their treatment of Michael Woodhouse is a disgrace. They just make siht up. And this is just another example of how far the ODT has fallen.
  
  They were once a very good daily paper that I read everyday for over 50 years. No longer.
  
  RIP the ODT
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:17am
  - kowtow
    
    The ODT has also played a very dirty game against a very popular city councillor one Lee Vandervis.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:53am
  - Bob
    
    Yes!. The ODT was the last of the real responsible credible newspapers in NZ.
    Another gaping chasm waiting for a responsible media to start printing
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:59am
  - Individual Responsibility
    
    Grunter – ODT’s Mike Houlihan has always had it in for Michael Woodhouse, as well as for Lee Vandervis, a DCC Councillor since 2004.
    
    ODT had a vendetta out for Vandervis who frequently challenged Hawkins in the chamber, during Hawkins debacle as mayor.
    
    Hawkins sycophantic CEOs of DCC both Dr Sue Bidrose and incumbent Sandy Graham both batted for the same side (read between the lines!).
    
    Woodhouse was always fair game as opposed to David Clark, who was given a soft run.
    
    I had the pleasure of cancelling the ODT subscription just prior to the last local body election when their leftist editorial bias became blatant.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dirty tricks? They never stopped lying!
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:45am
slightlyrighty

It’s been 1 year today since Dr. Sharma was expelled from the Labour Caucus.

and what a year it’s been. It would seem that more and more of his allegations, while not fully substantiated (Omerta works well in that caucus to a point) at least have substance to them.

Hindsight will point to this being the beginning of the end for Labour. Jacinda, at the time Dr. Sharma was expelled, tried to draw a line under it by declaring the matter closed.

Yeah. Right.
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August 23, 2023 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He was told don’t write anything down that is sensitive. No email, no text, no handwritten messages that could be bad for Labour if exposed.
  Waiting for Dr Gaurav Sharma’s book on the bullying in the Labour Party, especially by Ardern.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:52am
  - Matt Long
    
    Apparently that Hollow Men fit is laying low writing another book, maybe it will be about Labour this time, he after all a ” journalist”. //
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:15pm
  - Paulus
    
    Sharma was vandalised by two other people one being Ardern’s very close Chief of Staff, who has also disappeared, and the other the hopeful next Labour Leader and known bully McNulty as Whip.
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:14pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Does anyone know what Dr Sharma is doing currently?
  
  He may well have got the jump on his previous colleagues soon to enter the real-world job market.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think he has gone back to being a GP Doctor.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:08pm
All_on_Red

The world is increasingly turning to Nuclear.
Are we, as a Nation, mature enough to have a conversation about also pursuing Nuclear?
It is the solution and with low energy costs will solve so many economic and social issues.
‘Nearly 40 years after the completion of the country’s last new nuclear power plant, (Swedish Cabinet Minister)Pourmokhtari has announced plans to build at least ten large reactors to meet an anticipated surge in demand for zero-carbon power.
“The government is aiming at doubling electricity production in 20 years,” Pourmokhtari said. “For our clean power system to function, a large part of this has to be dispatchable [i.e., reliable] where nuclear power is the only non-fossil option. Nuclear power also has a reduced environmental footprint and requires limited resources in comparison with most energy sources.”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/08/sweden-goes-nuclear-2.php
And in North Carolina
‘Duke Energy recently made a smart announcement, outlining plans to replace one of the company’s coal-fired power plants with new small modular reactors at the Belews Creek Steam Station. In doing so, Duke is taking a “replace the existing coal plants with nuclear before retiring them” approach to ensure reliability is maintained or improved as required by [North Carolina statute] HB 951.’
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/08/on-energy-finally-some-good-news.php

The solution to poverty is cheap energy.
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August 23, 2023 8:12am
- Grunter
  
  The modern, small scale nuclear power stations would be ideal for the Auckland/Waikato region where there is little hydro and thermal power.
  
  Wind and solar will never provide baseload capacity (ie calm, cold nights = no wind and no sun….just in case Greta is reading KB this morning, I thought I needed to explain….)
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How dare you?
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:55am
  - Bob
    
    there have been about five Hydro power schemes proposed over the last 40 years; all killed of by illinformed ‘Green Ideology’, which has now permeated right through the Civil Service.
    The same ideology that is responsible for the numerous floods, forestry included, in Gisborne area and most of NZ
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:01am
    - rouppe
      
      And would be responsible for deciding whether nuclear was safe, and/or “green”
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:33am
  - Drone
    
    Today, a winters day in NZ the morning temperature in Wellington at 7am was approx 4 degrees C. There was no wind generation, gas, coal and geothermal were close to the max generation and hydro made up the rest. The country cannot build enough wind and solar generation, to enable the nation to de-commission the current coal and gas-fired power stations (2 Giga Watt generation). It’s not practical, it’s not realistic and the politicians in charge will not tell us the truth. Wind and solar will not save our world. I suspect they are concerned that the nation will run out of electricity if as the have planned (not a word politicians use) electricity use accelerates as we electrify the industries that can be (steel, milk, boiler replacements) and import more electric vehicles. But on the bright side, the collapse won’t happen in the careers of the current politicians (green, red or blue) unless they are very unlucky, and they won’t be liable for any disaster anyway.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Are we, as a Nation, mature enough to have a conversation about also pursuing Nuclear?”
  
  No. It would require repeal of the Act that bans nuclear energy. The left would melt down. Probably a majority of National MPs.
  
  We struggle to have a “mature” conversation about prescription charges. No chance 🙄
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:30am
  - Colville
    
    I believe it would take 10 years to have that conversation.
    Start with a study on the future of NZ power generation.. how much is needed and where… suggest Nuke needs to be looked at… another study looking at it…recommends nuke be looked at seriously with options…then a referendum after a very messy campaign for and against.
    
    Someone needs to have the balls and media reach to tell people we are in for blackouts unless we have nuclear baseload generation.
    
    SMRs seem to be a thing.. 15 or 20 years to see how they go. Maybe in New Zealand by 2050?
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:56am
    - Bob
      
      Yes!. The ODT was the last of the real responsible credible newspapers in NZ.
      Another gaping chasm waiting for a responsible media to start printing
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:04am
    - Bob
      
      Maybe in New Zealand by 2050?….
      by 2050 Nz will be living in the ‘new dark ages’.
      electricity will be the subject of History books
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:08am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      And in the meantime we should add some more fossil fuel generation.
      Seriously.
      Either that we should all buy lots of blankets and candles.
      
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      August 23, 2023 11:54am
  - wsk12345
    
    actually the Nat potential-MP that doorknocked my place the other day. We talked about net zero and i said she was deluded if they thought wind and solar were going to get us to the 95% she said the Nats were aiming for. She mentioned the small nuclear reactors and starting to get them into the conversation now for when they are available. I was surprised as the electricity system clearly wasn’t an area she naturally knew about – its obviously been discussed in the Party as part of learning the talking points.
    
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    August 23, 2023 6:23pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Nuclear plants should all be on barges jacked up on legs on seabed a few km offshore surrounded by inexhaustible cooling water that can dilute and wash away any unintentional leaks – so in event of accidents or if civilisation ends we don’t end up with land contaminated for Millenia. Also means that reactors can be built and decomissioned in specialist shipyards, and fuel + waste can be shipped in and out without all the palaver of ultra-secure Land based operations.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NUCLEAR!
  Now you done gone and made the Greens rolling around on the floor having anxiety attacks.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:56am
  - rockape
    
    Best they don’t visit Aberdeen or Cornwall where natural background radiation is way in excess of critical levels in power stations. Gee, and doesn’t the sun send us radiation?
    
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    August 23, 2023 6:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sun gives sunburn, UV. Welding can burn you if your don’t have your arms and face covered. UV again.
      
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      August 24, 2023 10:18am
- Handyman
  
  The total power generated by all the solar and windmills in New Zealand is currently 40 MW. The other 6,000MW is by reliable generation, including 1,200MW from coal and gas.
  
  That’s right. Today, none of the batteries in EV cars are being charged with renewable energy. Any company or sign that says “powered by renewable energy” is lying.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:30am
  - Simon Arnold
    
    Last Calendar Year we generated 43,476 GWh net electricity, 87% was renewable. That’s what EVs are eating. You have forgotten hydro, geothermal and bio-fuelled generation.
    
    (Note the interesting number is Watt hrs not Watts).
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:59am
    - Handyman
      
      Not today they aren’t. Tomorrow maybe, but it is a cold calm night forecast.
      
      I use the NZ greens definition of clean energy – wind and solar. They utterly oppose any hydro, even if all life upon Earth and the planets existence itself depending on flooding a remote valley.
      German greens include hydro and nuclear in their definition of renewables.
      
      The average GWh argument reminds me of the mathematician who drowned crossing the river, even though he calculated the average depth was only one metre.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:18pm
      - Simon Arnold
        
        The internet is your friend and it has the Green’s energy policy on line. It includes new biomass, geothermal and waves, tides and currents.
        
        The nice thing about the NZ grid is it has a high proportion of dispatchable renewables (hydro, geothermal and bio) not to mention existing hydro storage and an increasing ability to average out the mismatches between supply and demand.
        
        Fortunately they have some mathematicians involved.
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:44pm
      - Drone
        
        Simon, no nation has built large scale tide/wave/current generation. Most is small scale early development. Before anybody says but we can do it better, we won’t. The environmentalists will not allow coastal areas to be “destroyed” by building wave/tide/current power stations. So whilst the Green energy policy may mention them they won’t happen even if the Greens are the majority party in parliament. We can’t even build more hydro because environmentalists object.
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:49pm
      - Simon Arnold
        
        In my defense all my comment was directed at was helping Handyman get his facts sorted.
        
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        August 23, 2023 6:39pm
      - rockape
        
        To Drone, I know of one such scheme but it needs a huge rise and fall of tide. France. Google the Rance, I think it p4ocuces about 25 megawatts. Used to be part of my old sailing grounds. The current through the pass was if I remember, about 12 knots or about 18 kph.
        
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        August 23, 2023 7:01pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        Japan Solar Power is a total failure.
        https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210702/p2a/00m/0bu/002000c
        
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        August 23, 2023 7:47pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Auckland EVs are powered by dirty Indonesian coal.
    The electricity must lose a lot during transmission.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:12pm
    - wsk12345
      
      about 20% if its come from, say, the Waitaki Valley.
      
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      August 23, 2023 6:26pm
- imalwaysright
  
  NZ will be mature enough next winter when the brown outs and blackouts kick in so that tarquin and Jemima can charge their teslas.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:53am
  - Drone
    
    Won’t happen next year, unless it’s a dry year and the Huntly generators die of old age. Then you might see a change of attitude.
    
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    August 23, 2023 3:51pm
- mogg
  
  One of the manufacturers of these compact nuclear generators is Rolls Royce engineering UK.
  Their listed share price has increased 148% in the last 12 months. So somebody is buying them.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:54am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Once developed they’re estimating a cost of 1.8 billion pounds (say $NZ 4B) for a 470 MWe small modular reactor. You could have 3 or 4 of these for the cost of that idiotic Lake Onslow project and completely remove the need to burn coal and gas.
    
    Instead we’re proudly and grimly hanging on to our 40 year old “nuclear free” policy, as if anyone outside NZ gives a crap. Thanks Greens.
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:32pm
    - Handyman
      
      Lake Onslow is beyond crazy.
      In New Zealand we should use the wind generators to conserve water in the hydro systems.
      We should never have to rely on wind. That is, we should always have enough capacity in coal, gas and hydro for any occasion, including dry years. Think of wind as a giant expensive way to conserve generation.
      
      In other words, we already have a Lake Onslow analogue.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:47pm
Warren

Like all policy releases from the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins over the last few months a vapping bill comes with conditions like a 8 month delay with a cap on having only 600 stores and a licensing system.
But Labour has to be elected first so this is just another policy for Labour to persuade the voter to vote for them at the upcoming General Election.
If they were honest they would have passed this months ago instead of waiting for the polls to say they risk being defeated at the 2023 General Election if they can’t get enough votes from the poor and out of date policy they are trumpeting.
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August 23, 2023 8:13am
Maggie Pie

Heard outgoing MP Michael Woodhouse speaking with Hosk earlier.

My partner’s often described as….. “a details sort of guy”
Really pisses me off sometimes 🙁

Just saying.
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August 23, 2023 8:15am
- kevn
  
  Maggie…. Good to have in the household tho.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yep. If you don’t have an argument now and again, your relationship is not great.
    Agree to disagree.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:01am
- cmm
  
  People who use terms such as “details sort of guy” tend to see themselves as “big picture” visionaries who haven’t got time for the “trivial” details.
  
  Unfortunately, as the saying goes, the Devil is in the details. The little buggers will catch you every time.
  
  Policies that sound good from 50,000 ft don’t look good at zero feet. We have far too many of these “big picture” people in parliament which is why we end up with far too many broken policies like:
  
  * GST off fruit & veg – that would increase costs not reduce them.
  * Covid policies that reduce health outcomes overall.
  * Education policies purported to boost Maori achievement – which see them lagging behind even further after being “helped”.
  etc etc etc.
  
  All good engineers, doctors, business people are “details sort of (people)”.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:12am
- mogg
  
  There’s nothing more annoying than a know all, especially one who has the details and facts to back it up.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:15am
Cassandra

National has made it clear that nothing remotely controversial will enter their space eg no change to Treaty principles, seperate Maori wards will continue including Auckland, trans men will be able use women’s lavatories etc. Labour but better managed. The only way the slide to cold Fiji will stop is by getting Act above 20%.
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August 23, 2023 8:20am
- Warren
  
  Link to verify your comment please.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:01am
- RoboRob
  
  I think National are cleverly avoiding any issue that the media could take and use to beat them to a pulp. If National were to address some of the stuff you list we would be seeing stories about Racist Luxon or homophobic Luxon. Much better to let Labour kill itself and for National to talk about unattackable policy such as improving education.
  
  What National does about the Treaty of trans issues can happen after they are elected.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:03am
  - Notsofast
    
    You see the problem if you are correct? The DEI freaks have embedded themselves in high paying jobs with tenure. They are controlling the language. Wake up everybody.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:54am
  - mogg
    
    Yes I agree the Marxist NZ media would love to have any of the lefty attack lines opened up for them.
    Luxon has done a good job in keeping the spotlight on Hipkin’s and Labour serial blunders, now they are copying National policy, we can expect an announcement on Pharmac and cancer drugs immediately.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:08am
  - Burtland
    
    so is National & Luxton woke or are they just pretending to be woke?
    are they keeping their powder dry or have they only wet powder?
    
    youre suggesting theyre living a lie
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:16am
  - wsk12345
    
    of course they are – look at the dirt dug up today on the ACT candidates. Nothing memorable and nothing half those on this blog probably said 2 years ago.
    
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    August 23, 2023 6:29pm
- Notsofast
  
  I think you mean trans women, you are through the looking glass now remember.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:14am
Dougal10

Perhaps north dunedin residents should vote for woodhouse and give luxon a headache to deal with, rather than wasting their votes on what looks to be opposition mps . It would also help the hospital build.
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August 23, 2023 8:20am
- pdm
  
  D10 – Woodhouse would give them a proper local MP. Not a ring in or a sycophant.
  
  National would gain an alternative or back up to Brownlee as Speaker.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:56am
  - Jack5
    
    Woodhouse says he was shoved down National’s list because he was a man.
    
    “Firstly, there was a contest between diversity and experience, and in my case diversity won,” Mr Woodhouse told the Otago Daily Times.
    
    He learned of his slide down the list while he was delivering party pamphlets.
    
    Woodhouse was first elected to Parliament in 2008. He had Ministerial roles in the Key and English governments.
    
    This is MMP at work. It’s primarily about trying to match Government membership to the population make-up. Now its conventional gender and race, but what next?
    
    MMP leads to national stagnation. Look at Germany, from which MMP was adopted. It has to import people to stay viable, and that’s the state NZ is moving to, and is close to.
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/being-male-cost-me-my-position-woodhouse
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:31am
    - Ghost
      
      Woodhouse has said he never said what odt claims he did
      
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      August 23, 2023 9:35am
      - Jack5
        
        Can we have a link to his denial?
        
        The ODT says he claims it was diversity v. experience.
        
        If not gender, what?
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:02am
      - Ghost
        
        Michael Woodhouse rejects ‘being male’ reporting, discusses diversity in National’s party list
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:13am
      - Jack5
        
        Thanks for the link, Ghost.
        
        Sometimes when I’m writing a post, by the time I finish and push go, a cluster of posts on the same topic has emerged higher in the thread.
        
        However, does Woodhouse need to clarify what he means about diversity if the ODT reporter thinks he was talking about being a male, and Woodhouse apparently denies this?
        
        Let him lay on the table the interview, as he recorded it.
        
        Was Woodhouse talking about race? I doubt he was talking about current concepts of gender rather than talking about male-female sex. I doubt he was talking about religion. Who cares about that these days?
        
        Was the ODT reporter also recording the interview? Will the newspaper allow him to defend himself?
        
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        August 23, 2023 10:23am
      - rockape
        
        He certainly fills the” shortarse” quota!
        
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        August 23, 2023 7:11pm
  - kowtow
    
    He also wouldn’t turn up at an organised crime event and pretend it was the Electoral Commission.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:57am
I remember when

Anaru Eketone: There’s a lot of scaremongering about Maori elite, but what about the Pakeha elite?

Does he mean the ‘rich pricks’ that David Parker goes on about and that Labour is always talking about taxing more.
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August 23, 2023 8:22am
- Libertarians are right
  
  The “Pakeha Elite” don’t have unelected governance power.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Exactly. Co-Governance means Governed by the Tribal Elite. Tyranny!
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:20am
    - mogg
      
      Fear not, as weather man Jim would say co-governance, and three waters are ‘gone-burgers’. Following on from Tunisia in 2010, we are about to have the Kiwi Spring, in response to economic incompetence and corruption in high places.
      
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      August 23, 2023 11:29am
    - Drone
      
      Hi Steve Otto(North Shore) as a reader of the Internet perhaps you should read how Julian Batchellor is being portrayed in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/23/who-is-julian-batchellor-stop-co-governance-new-zealand-far-right-speaker-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-no-campaign
      
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      August 23, 2023 6:32pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The anonymous activist would be Mikaela Matenga.
        She rips up Stop Co-Governance booklets.
        
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        August 24, 2023 10:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I fully expect Stop Co-Governance to do a post about his racism in his writing.
  
  From his opinion:
  “By 1905, Māori had lost more than 58 million acres of the original 66 million in our possession.” That is a blatant lie. The land was not lost. The Tribes sold the land to the crown. He is carefully bending the truth.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/anaru-eketone-there-s-a-lot-of-scaremongering-about-m%C4%81ori-elite-but-what-about-the-p%C4%81keh%C4%81-elite/ar-AA1fzXp5
  Another post that I don’t know how much link rubbish to cut off.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:19am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Maori land was not just sold, to be clear & fair.
    Some of what was sold was also after a lot of pressure and even manipulation by the likes of Sir Donald McLean.
    Some of the sales were honourable, and others were not. Some were set aside by the crown or reduced. Others were not made correctly with the owners, or not even understood (i.e. the earliest NZ Company purchases were not taken at face value by the NZ govt.).
    Selling was tapering off by the mid-19th century, and Maori entertained leasing to pakeha.
    There was always land gifted by Maori as well, from the early to late 19th century. Some for pragmatic means (to get pakeha to move in, even as a buffer to other tribes) and some genuinely altrusitic (such as Te Heuheu).
    Then land was truly ‘stolen’ as in taken by decree, public works and the lot. Government simply takes it.
    Then there was confiscation after military campaigns, which I do NOT consider stolen as it was occupied by force, and under tikanga that is 100% legit. If you can light the fires of occupation for enough generations, it is yours – hence Crown land taken from war is less clear around being wrong to me than that which was taken purely by the stroke of a pen.
    
    So if we are going to rebutt Maori nationalists with ‘facts’ we best stick to all the fact/full truth, otherwise we are no better than them with cherry picking or omitting to suit our narrative.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:34pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fuzzysnuggleduck.
      Have a look through here. Daily posts going back to August 2022.
      It is all in there.
      http://www.stopcogovernance .kiwi
      
      You may want a shorter explanation. It is 53 minutes long.
      It is a good video showing the process of TOW. Nobody is really calling Julian Batchelor, other than a complaint to Police. Nobody has called him a liar other than the brainwashed protesters.
      I hope you have the time to watch it. The first 28 minutes are good.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgY03s6Tqc
      
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      August 23, 2023 3:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
        
        Had a space that should not be there. My fault.
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:29pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Sad. Just because of this movement you seem to be saying that unless it is on that site, then it didn’t happen.
        I read & research my own on this subject, collect the hardcopy books from 19th century and early 20th century sources, and seek primary sources & citations around events that plainly happened.
        
        Gifted, stolen, sold, conquered, each of these is fact in different places at different times around NZ.
        
        I am not sure if you are trying to rebut historical truth, but saying ‘It’s all in there’ is laughable, if this is your only take around correcting the assertion that all Maori land was ‘sold’.
        
        Take a look at the Waikato War for instance, and even 20th century public works acts which took land. The land where the military settlements of Cambridge, Hamilton and Te Awamutu sit are not for instance ‘sold’.
        Think about it, for God’s sake. Read even a local history.
        
        If Julian thinks the full story of acreage lost by Maori is “The Tribes sold the land to the crown”, then he doesn’t have even a cursory knowledge of a sequence of events. If he is making that statement about NZ as a whole than he is 100% wrong.
        
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        August 23, 2023 8:54pm
- Ehlana
  
  I read her article. She takes quotes from 1905 and 1912 and interprets them solely through her race-based lens. Apparently she doesn’t know that many Europeans moved to Australia, NZ or the US to get away from hereditary aristocracy and become landowners for themselves. They didn’t want to exchange a European overlord for a Maori one.
  
  She then jumps to “The complaints I hear today about so-called Māori elites”, as if nothing has changed in a hundred years.
  
  Seems like poor scholarship to me.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:33am
hullkiwi

The left are upset that National are getting support from businesses and individual voters

National banks 7.5 times more in donations than Labour https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/496383/national-banks-7-point-5-times-more-in-donations-than-labour

But then, you can understand Labour’s angst when the media go rogue on them and start campaigning against them….

Thousands of families, cyclone victims subject to capital gains tax on family home under new rules – NZ Herald https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-thousands-of-families-and-cyclone-victims-subject-to-capital-gains-tax-on-family-home-under-new-rules-capital-gains-tax-by-stealth-national/Z7TRIXUS2NFAVC6XTAHLR6KGZE/

On the am Show, Ryan Bridge went all out anger about this.

The way Bridge was this morning, National doesn’t need to campaign, he was doing it for them.

Finally, given the timing of this Labour are in a hole with only 6 days of parliamentary time available to enact a fix to the legislation. What an inept bunch!
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August 23, 2023 8:23am
- Opie
  
  National has received $8.2m since the start of 2021, followed by ACT on $4.2m. This brings the total raised by the two parties over this period to more than $12m.
  
  The Green Party has raised $1.4m, ahead of Labour (almost $1.1m).
  
  NZ First has also reported receiving $1m in donations.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:41am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Yes, but National’s support is in contrast to the $110mill paid by the taxpayer through the PIJF to support reporting (or is it campaigning?) on behalf of the government (or is it the Labour party?).
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Labour better get baking for the cakestalls instead of sitting there and waiting for the money to roll in.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:26am
  - Ehlana
    
    Given their delivery record to date, when do you think these cake stall cakes might be available Steve?
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:59am
    - Biscuit
      
      Buy Now, Get Purchases Later
      
      NB:
      
      Rather like that inane TV ad where the toll collector says ‘Just the little one today’ there will be tolls at both Picton and the Auckland Harbour Bridge:
      ‘Just the big boxes today.’
      
      South Island pie purchases are subject to delay pending just how close the delivery vans get to Mrs Pie Eater’s house
      
      North Island sausage roll purchases are subject to delay pending just how close the delivery vans get to Little Chippie’s house
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:24pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our Open and Transparent Government…

“A culture of secrecy and obfuscation has bled down from the Beehive into the public service … As a working journalist, I have found it increasingly difficult to get straight answers to questions. It also takes twice, three times as long because every paragraph is parsed until it is reduced to a statement that tells you absolutely nothing.”

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/21-08-2023/has-labour-really-been-the-most-transparent-and-open-government-ever
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August 23, 2023 8:24am
- ClanMcleod
  
  That’s what a comms degree will get ya!
  
  Newspeak. ‘Orwell wrote an instruction manual, not a novel’.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:42am
- artemisia
  
  Not a journalist but recently attempted to get clarification from a government department on an issue. First try, answered a question not asked. Second try, repeated the question and requested escalation. Third try, question answered and update to website promised.
  
  Hints
  – use the Contact Us on the website as these are usually recorded and monitored (eventually)
  – that word ‘escalate’ gets attention.
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:53am
- Ghost
  
  The questions were obviously not real journalist jard hitting questions like
  
  How great is Jacinda?
  How many billions of new Zealanders did jacinda save?
  What is the best place for Chippy to buy a pie?
  Omg did you hear the opposition leader has called himself Chris to confuse labour voters?
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Half redacted, so half transparent.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

CNN: Trump can win.
Well CNN is so far left it’s not funny. They have been forced to admit it to save face.

https://finishtherace.com/ella-ford/cnn-acknowledges-that-trump-can-win-the-general-election-in-2024/
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August 23, 2023 8:24am
- Biscuit
  
  You’ll be shocked, Steve, but I understand high-level meetings are in play amongst New Zealand ‘journalists’ and, you know, I reckon that maybe, just maybe, there’s a fair chance that Jessica, Tova, Tame Jack, Maike et al might, just might, issue a cautious heads-up that the Centre Right here in Noo Zeelund might be an outside chance of winning on October 14.
  
  Mind, the Cartoonists, I hear, are of a different view…
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I want to see them say it facing the camera, not just a report.
    Same with those pricks on playschool TV1 breackfast. Chris Chang, Matty, Anne whatever (the thickest one) Jen Clarkson.
    I know I should not watch, but the speaker of the house insists.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:41am
Biscuit

Amidst all the doom and gloom I read in here – Labour still not yet polling in the teens, like – there’s good news out of the Capital City today:

7.05pm
Sky Stadium
Ranfurly Shield and NPC Match
Wellington (Shield holders, NPC champions, kneel before our greatness, you other unions*) vs Tasman

*pdm’s Hawkes Bay, e.g.

A typically-fine, still, winter’s day here. Forecast temperature is 5%…
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August 23, 2023 8:29am
- ClanMcleod
  
  5% of what? 😉
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:43am
  - Biscuit
    
    My (in)famous typing ‘skills’ at play again, Clan!
    
    Thank the stars I don’t get put in front of a typewriter when I vote for October 14, heh.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:52am
- pdm
  
  Biscuit – HB had the Shield for years without breaking it.
  
  Give it two Wellington for a couple of weeks and the bloody thing has to be repaired and restored. It is no longer the Original Shield.
  
  Come On The Bay – roll on 20 September 2023.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:02am
  - Colville
    
    September 30!!
    
    Or you will be in the stadium alone!
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:11am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Are you sure that Waikato did not break it?
    There was one hell of a pissup after Waikato took it off Auckland!
    The shield always generated a lot of interest.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:41am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Job done.
  
  Lowest scoring Shield match since 1970, apparently.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Unelected Maori to being appointed to Auckland Council?

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/stop-anyone-unelected-from-being-appointed-to-auckland-council/
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August 23, 2023 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This was later yesterday.
  Unelected is a breach of the Treaty!
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:33am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Our MP says it must be stopped!!
  
  https://twitter.com/NewshubPolitics/status/1693851377213272223
  
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  August 23, 2023 8:43am
- kowtow
  
  Already happens at the Dunedin City Council.
  
  Totally at odds with the principles of democracy .
  
  Possibly Invercargill too.
  
  ‘ Mana whenua representative Evelyn Cook said her runaka also accepted the chosen name when it was presented to them.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/southland/council-agrees-new-museum-name-budget-increase
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:13am
  - Taieri
    
    Already happens at the Dunedin City Council.
    ————-
    
    Invercargill, not Dunedin.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:30am
    - kowtow
      
      Happens in Dunedin .
      
      ‘Mana whenua representatives on the committee Donna Matahaere-Atariki and Marlene McDonald proved to be decisive in today’s result.’
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/george-st-revamp-mayors-push-design-change-fails
      
      2 unelected race representatives can overturn the democratic wishes of the voters.
      
      This is totally contrary with the principles of democracy .
      
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      August 23, 2023 4:36pm
    - Jack5
      
      So the re-opened Southland Museum will get a Maori name …
      
      Mayor Nobby Clarke looks to be good value, but the Invercargill City Council incluldes too many Woke Leftists.
      
      When solid citizens lose interest in participating in governing, activists move in.
      
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      August 23, 2023 4:53pm
- jon
  
  Steve, i see, quite rightly Seymour is onto this, with upticks vastly outnumbering the downticks, in support of him. Hopefully he will milk this to the hilt, halt this nonsense!
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:34pm
cas

I have been visiting an older person in one of our hospitals. The hospital is over 100% capacity and I gather that if you are older with underlying conditions you wouldn’t get cpr nor be intubated if you got pneumonia nor would you end up in intensive care. Can’t speak highly enough of the nurses who are under the pump but remain so cheerful and competent.
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August 23, 2023 8:31am
- kevn
  
  cas… We have an ED nurse in our family. She never complains just says it is busy.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:07am
  - rockape
    
    My wife the same. She loves being busy it just when they get to the stage that they know they haven’t time to care properly that she gets upset.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:31am
- covfefe
  
  CPR / ICU often inappropriate with very poor outcomes. We over-treat our ill elderly, IMHO.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:10am
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear, Oh Dear..

It seems all the folks who have benefitted from Labour’s profligate ways have deserted them in their time of need.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/496383/national-banks-7-point-5-times-more-in-donations-than-labour
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August 23, 2023 8:42am
- Colville
  
  No surprise.
  
  You will get very thirsty waiting for a Socialist to shout their round at a bar too!
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:15am
- hullkiwi
  
  Maggy, have Phillip Mills and Sir Stephen Tindall not been forthcoming this year?
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:29am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Sir Stephen has sunk his money into that charlatan Ratu Mataira’s fusion scam. His pocket might be a bit short of loose change.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:46pm
- rouppe
  
  And that’s after Helen Clark offered to match donations dollar for dollar up to 200k.
  
  I think they got a hundred and something thousand in donations from that.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:50am
  - jon
    
    I see in Australia, when the Liberals are up against it, in campaigns, they wheelout the still very with it and popular former PM, John Howard. I doubt, though welcoming the dollars generated by Helen Clark, that Labour will be calling on her to make appearances for them.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:45pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    From what I’ve read even NZ First’s donations have far exceeded Labour’s.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:55pm
ClanMcleod

Here’s Seymour in 2021 cheerleading the ‘vaccines’.

https://twitter.com/2ETEKA/status/1693620958244831330

I’ve asked him recently, based on the latest evidence does he still support the jabs. His answer is unequivocally yes.

He still supports (slightly modified) mandate.

He still claims there is no excess mortality in NZ when there provably is.

I know it’s a ‘single issue’, but how can I give a vote to someone so clueless? It’s like talking to a flat earther.
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August 23, 2023 8:48am
- Cassandra
  
  I’ve had covid twice. Both times treated w antivirals, okay after 24 hours and fine after 48. I have advanced cancer. Modern medical science has limitations but mostly is a miracle compared to my childhood.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:11am
- covfefe
  
  Agree – surprised by this. I don’t think vaccines are particularly dangerous (nothing is 100% safe) just not that effective and not really required by young healthy people. But the mandates OMG how can he call himself a libertarian?
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:12am
- kevn
  
  Clan… Can we give him a few more weeks to ‘wakeup’?
  There is flood of evidence. Seymour is a trained engineer I gather, don’t they go for hard facts?
  https://preview.mailerlite.com/w0n1h9q1j2/2282969931609807623/z3g8/
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:13am
  - cmm
    
    A trained engineer is not necessarily an experienced or able engineer.
    
    Besides, he’s been a politician so long that that is what he is now.
    
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    August 23, 2023 8:17pm
- Grunter
  
  Clan – to me Seymours responses are very bizarre. I too have contacted him several times about COVID responses and the excess deaths. To me it just illustrates how deep the scandal has gone.
  
  I’m still going to vote ACT, I agree with most of what they bring to the table, and definitely the best of a bad bunch by a long way.
  
  Post Oct 14th, once he has a bit more power, I plan to bug Seymour daily with covid jab evidence and excess death data.
  
  Truthfulness ALWAYS wins through. It just sometimes takes a lot longer than it should.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:37am
  - BeaB
    
    Really? Isn’t it time to give it a rest and look to the future? Most of us have moved on. It was a rotten time and we want to forget it. Endlessly banging on about it all makes you sound a bit mad.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:35pm
    - Ghost
      
      The future? It was reported yesterday that Biden is bringing back some Covid mandates. If you think the past few years are in the past and won’t happen again then you aren’t paying attention
      
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      August 23, 2023 1:42pm
    - mawm
      
      I wonder if those who have had their sons or husbands die suddenly would agree with you. Or those with cancers that have either recently been diagnosed or have reappeared and are highly invasive would. Your comment is callous in the extreme.
      
      This has not gone away; people are still dying from this intervention with an improperly tested novel treatment. There is a link somewhere above to an interview on the substack “The New Era” that might give you some understanding of the havoc wrought by this attack on our right to body autonomy and personal sovereignty.
      
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      August 23, 2023 7:14pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    They have a pretty clear position on co-governance, and that is my bottom line this election.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:58pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      And fair enough, that would be second on my list of concerns, and not too far behind the covid response.
      Yet I get attacked for having such a bottom line!
      
      Isn’t free and open debate a wonderful thing! I say that quite sincerely, it’s certainly better than the rigid narrative we get from the mainstream media.
      
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      August 24, 2023 8:24am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hard to tell if he is joking or not.
  Joke with a straight face? Good job!
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:06am
- leoj
  
  Highly disappointing that Seymour has such a blind spot.
  
  ACT’s polling numbers would improve if he would just acknowledge the facts.
  
  Holding my nose to vote for him. His excuse for not talking to the protesters makes him look as weak as Luxon. The fact that ACT were in lock step with all parties doesn’t help either.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:37am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    leoj – thanks for the honest response. Makes me more inclined to support the idiot at the election knowing his ardent supporters understand the reality and still push him on it after we get rid of the current morons.
    Too many Nat supporters who just go nuts if you even think of criticising wet Luxon who fully supports the climate lunacy and pretends that the gender, co government and covid issues don’t actually exist.
    Whoever came up with that as a strategy is clueless.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:59am
    - leoj
      
      One of the Nats’ advisors is our host.
      
      Luxon make me cringe.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:16pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  He’s the best of a bad bunch. Hold your nose and think of England.
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:07pm
- miltonF
  
  After the actions of Seymour today I am 100% certain I will not be voting ACT. He’s been on an inquisition to purify his ranks of any dissenters to the communist Covid narrative. No freedom of speech in the ACT party it appears. I’m starting to see that Seymour really isn’t a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination.
  
  Claiming that some drownings might actually be caused by vaccinated people having heart attacks and strokes seems quite a logical assumption. Especially as we know heart attacks and strokes have skyrocketed post vaccine rollout. On the surface, it is much more scientific and logical than Seymour’s claim, that the vaccines are 100% safe and effective. That vaccine mandates are required to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. (Isn’t that what the vaccine is for)?
  Who is the REAL conspiracy theorist in this situation? It’s YOU David.
  
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  August 23, 2023 3:19pm
Opie

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350059425/agency-spent-17k-powhiri-new-deputy-chief-executive

It’s OK, it’s only taxpayers money…

This kind of largesse was all hidden for the last 6 years. As the tide turns, more will come out.

They keep screeching about how national would pay for increased services. Just point to this…

Addicted to spending
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August 23, 2023 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Every time Labour gains power, the same thing. Spend until broke or way overdrawn.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:11am
Fisiani2

Wellington Central could be interesting. Robertson’s majority last time was 18.848 which seems solid.
He is not standing for the seat this time.
Party votes decide governments.
Electorate votes are about who is the best candidate for the local job. Omer, Paul or Sheeran?
Scott Sheeran, the National candidate has a chance to win the seat. Wellingtonians will learn that he is the best person for the job. He will surprise many.
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August 23, 2023 8:55am
- artemisia
  
  Omer is a weak candidate, but is Labour. Paul has name recognition and ‘better diversity’ though also weak IMO. She will scoop votes from Omer. Good chance one of them will win, but also a chance for Sheeran to benefit from two candidates splitting the left vote.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:45am
Captain Mainwaring

Has anyone thought about how the record wet winter is saving the Government’s skin by avoiding electricity shortages? The hydro dams are going flat out and we’re barely keeping pace with energy demand.
When the inevitable dry spell arrives it will be National’s fault but it wasn’t them who shut down oil exploration, natural gas supply and coal mining.
Solar and wind is virtual signalling and cannot save us from blackouts.
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August 23, 2023 9:07am
- hullkiwi
  
  Reminds me of a Facebook post yesterday.
  
  Yesterday, NIWA meteorologists met in Warkworth to discuss recent weather events.
  
  “All agreed, that yesterday’s weather saw the most sunshine hours, since records began in January 2023.”
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:04am
  - Raphael
    
    I thought Niwa’s historical records didn’t go that far back. I meant that’s more than 6 months ago.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:31pm
pdm

Yesterdays Napier Electorate Curia poll indicates that Katy Nimon will return Napier to National.

She is about 12% ahead at this stage and while there are about 23% undecided I think it is reasonable to expect they will be distributed among all parties. Plus some who will not vote .

If that is the case with Napier, historically a Labour stronghold, then Tukituki should be a whitewash!!

All good for Hawkes Bay.
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August 23, 2023 9:13am
- Hollyfield
  
  The debate last night was very good. Katie Nimon spoke very well, was very polished and answered questions well and displayed a good sense of humour. She was very likable. The NZ First & Act candidates both had notes/scripts to read from, and were not so practiced in their responses. The Labour candidate was also very good. I didn’t agree with his policies but he spoke well and seemed likable – it made me wonder why he initially refused to participate in the debate since he could obviously handle the format. The big contrast was each candidate summing up at the end – NZ First, National and Act all spoke about their policies and vision, Labour focused on criticizing National.
  I have gained respect for Bomber Bradbury since watching his podcast over the last few weeks – I disagree with his views but he is fair to all sides, and gives credit where credit is due (even if he disagrees with the policy). He was a lively host, moderating where needed but mostly letting the candidates get on with answering the questions and not being antagonistic the way many moderators are.
  
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  August 23, 2023 9:29am
  - I remember when
    
    And she is a well known Hawke’s Bay brand name.
    
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    August 23, 2023 9:57am
  - Cassandra
    
    Bradbury is a foul-mouthed far- left nutter. One swallow maketh not a summer. Read his blog. He’s nuts.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:00am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      No thanks, I’ll take your word for it, Cheers for taking one for the team!
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:02pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hollyfield: With regard to Mark Hutchinson, see this: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/08/22/7pm-tonight-live-streamed-and-simulcast-freeview-200-taxpayers-union-napier-election-debate-hosted-by-the-working-group-now-with-labour-candidate-mark-hutchinson/.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:01am
    - Hollyfield
      
      Thanks – had to wait to get home from work before clicking on the link, since I couldn’t be sure the language would be safe for my workplace!
      Adds a lot of context. No respect for the man or his policies, but he did handle himself well in the debate.
      Katie Nimon was still the star of the debate.
      
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      August 23, 2023 4:56pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Bomber Bradbury’s thoughts on the Napier poll results:
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/08/23/napier-poll-winners-and-losers/.
    
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    August 23, 2023 10:20am
Maggie Pie

Despite the recent drop in the RE market, it’s still unusual to find anything in Auckland’s DGZ for under $3mill.

So for anyone looking to get into the prized double-grammer-zone, there’s a place on a full site just come to market in Parnell, not all that far from JK’s pile.

With a CV of $1,875,000, the agent believes it may go for the mid 2’s.

https://oneroof.co.nz/7-alberon-street-parnell-auckland-city-auckland-1954446
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August 23, 2023 9:17am
- NothingLeft
  
  Mid 2 millions for a 70m² shitbox in Parnell. Or half that for modern 250m² outside of Auckland (or on city fringes).
  
  Not a hard decision to make.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:02am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Good bones? Make the neighbours happy as well.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:46am
- Biscuit
  
  Regular Kiwibloggers will know I can’t type for toffee and so I am somewhat loath to pull Maggie up on her disgraceful spelling of g-r-a-m-m-a-r up there!
  
  Biscuit departs, staga left, f*cking fast, keeping an eye out for lobbed-in Tennis balls…
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:56am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Could you type for a beer?
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:37pm
Yvette

Maui Fires

• [Hawaii] Lahaina Fire Prompts a Shift in Maui’s Long-Running Water Fights
After a fight over water on the day of the Lahaina fire, the governor says the state has “tipped too far” in trying to preserve water.
… Starting in the 1970s, a series of state court rulings established priorities for water protection that include the exercise of Native Hawaiians’ traditional and customary rights, which cover taro farming.
But Indigenous advocates and environmentalists are constantly tangling with water companies over how much the companies are permitted to divert.
– the New York Times (subscription needed)

• Te Mana o Te Wai Statements
There is no co-governance in the simple truth Maori only may write Te Mana o Te Wai Statements – there is nothing ‘co’ about this, it’s a different type of constitutional arrangement from anything we’ve seen before.” – Posted on April 21, 2023 by Dr Muriel Newman https://www.nzcpr.com/labour-delivers-control-of-fresh-water-to-maori/

• “While it is easy and convenient for Auckland Council and Watercare to keep increasing the water take from our Awa tupuna [river ancestor] to supply water to Taamaki Makaurau, it is not sustainable.” – Te Arataura (Tribal Executive) Chair Tukoroirangi Morgan, appointed Chair to the Entity A Iwi Regional Representative Group, but out of his tribal region. Entity A covers 45 hapuu and iwi groups across Northland and Taamaki Makaurau and Entity A appears to remain intact while the other three have been split in to nine

• For hapū and iwi, ensuring that the hierarchy is applied will be a core activity to consider. Some of our iwi technicians highlighted their view that when making decisions for water, particularly around limit setting, users of water for commercial purposes should not be enabled to participate. Only those with the health of the water as their priority should be involved in the hierarchy at the top. This ensures that the health is first as is required in the policy.
– 6.1 Hierarchy Of Obligations, Te Mana O Te Wai Guidelines For Mana Whenua
https://ourlandandwater.nz/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Te-Mana-o-te-Wai-Guidelines-for-Mana-Whenua.pdf

Water, water everywhere, / Nor any stop to think – lines from “The Rime of the Ancient Maoriner,” by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, – sort of
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August 23, 2023 9:20am
surfing

The Chateau Tongariro survived volcanos and earthquakes and terrible weather.

But, it isn’t going to survive the safety bureaucrats!
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August 23, 2023 9:39am
- Colville
  
  I suspect the tenants got a report to say its dodgy as an excuse to walk away from the maintenance issues… it would be a vastly expensive pile to look after.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:20am
Northshore

Perhaps the “Honourable” Michael Woodhouse could now set up a new business venture selling toilet seats with faces painted on them.
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August 23, 2023 9:44am
I remember when

Ryan Bridges asked the million dollar question when he asked, “Once they ban cigarettes and vapes what will users switch to next” (or words to that effect).
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August 23, 2023 9:55am
- kowtow
  
  The other question is “what will the control freak wowsers ban next”
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:21am
- Gravelroad
  
  Tell me anyone in authority who is actively concerned about illegal drug use – especially meth.
  Likewise cocaine use is allegedly widespread amongst the rich and famous here.
  I’m not seeing any tax payer funded campaigns on TV about that.
  I suggest that meth fuelled crime is worse than people vaping and is worse for public health as well.
  Think about it next time there is a report about a small child killed or maimed by uncontrolled meth rage – or an old lady bashed for her pokie winnings.
  Not seeing a lot of cigarette smokers and vapers committing those crimes,
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:07am
  - Colville
    
    Pot gummy bears are all the rage too.
    After dinner treats.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:32pm
Jack5

Holy shit! In the age of space exploration, and nations still sending space ships to the Moon, an NZ government department is financing Maori star lore research, and financing it to educate school kids and the public.

An 18-month astronomy project at Otago Museum in Dunedin is funded by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.

The Otago Daily Times says the project is to “gather knowledge on southern tatai arorangi (astronomy) and develop educational resources for schools and the general public”.

The newspaper says the primary researcher for the project, Victoria Campbell, previously worked as a general manager for Te Runanga o Moeraki and spent more than 10 years involved in Kai Tahu immersion experiences and wananga (educational seminars).

Te Runanga o Moeraki is one of the regional assemblies of the tribe.

According to Wikipedia MBIE is the public service department charged with “delivering policy, services, advice and regulation” which contribute to New Zealand’s economic productivity and business growth.”

As a country, we’re sunk! 😲

From a quick check: the ODT report of the project seems to be behind the newspaper’s paywall.
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August 23, 2023 9:58am
- Jack5
  
  Note: “Kai Tahu” is the deep south Maori dialect for what most of New Zealand calls the Ngai Tahu tribe.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:10am
- cmm
  
  It is a massive stretch to call Maori astronomy astronomy. Astrology is closer to the mark.
  
  Astronomy requires meticulous note taking, mathematics, instrumentation and a system of physics etc. Even 2000+ year old Greek/Roman/whatever astronomy had those.
  
  Astronomy is impossible without a written language and maths.
  
  Astrology just needs mumbo-jumbo.
  
  Knowing to plant your spuds when a certain star is visible is country-knowledge. It is not science. It is not astronomy.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:57am
  - Paulus
    
    Nobody can learn an alternative Language unless they can speak English well first.
    Any language (except Te Maori perhaps) !
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:28pm
Sparrow

Getting answers from Labour is impossible. My latest attempt was to have an article appearing in the Herald ref priority was being given to Maori in the Northland health district regardless of need was correct or not. Email sent to our non seen non heard MP never had a reply. Several weeks later recieved an email from Minister of Health Verrall ensuring I would recieve a reply from Health NZ ( or whatever it is called) in due course. Wrote back asking if due course was 1 week, 1 month, 1 year on a simple question is the health system racist. Still awaiting a reply. As an aside I had copied my original email to the unseen and unheard MP to Dr Shane Reti. He replied within the hour confirming health should be based on need. Very clear no bs. As an ex life long labour supporter it saddens me how this mob purports to be a labour party. Yes you spooks out there who monitor this blog can now identify who the Sparrow is my simple reply ” Get f….”
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August 23, 2023 9:59am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Shane Reti was also one of the few people personally answering my question regarding GST for small businesses.
  
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  August 23, 2023 7:34pm
I remember when

Obviously the next EV push will be the control of Overseas Currency to restrict the availability of petrol imports.
While the inability of the lower paid to purchase replacement vehicles may have some political pull, it will be used to drive public transport use.
Mileage allowances will be next.
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August 23, 2023 10:05am
Northshore

IRW – re your comments to my post.
Wayne Brown was elected on the basis (even I voted for him) that he was an experienced problem fixer. He should know the meaning of unintended consequences. Yes: behavioural problems at the Library existed before he came along, but his policies have exacerbated an organisation already under strain. He has not fixed a problem but instead shoved it sideways.
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August 23, 2023 10:09am
Gravelroad

Kate Hawkesby gives Hipkins and Labour a huge serve about the Auckland lockdowns.
Good on her.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/early-edition/opinion/kate-hawkesby-hipkins-may-regret-aucklands-lockdown-i-can-tell-you-who-regrets-it-more/?fbclid=IwAR20kle1d-Awv-IgY9KrXEA1nvKb7FtJC-5Jg3kA9S3yf0vij2lUsBbxEFs_aem_AUSM9RraOgJZjrYbYDWUZEa9-Mb97UB4hTnIayTYr7sFmmSq_FTyPmsb_DjHfc72_k0&utm_source=share&utm_medium=apps
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August 23, 2023 10:15am
OverseasKiwi

One suspects that military historians (I was active in academia for two decades in the United States) will describe Ukrainian actions from January onwards as ‘the great folly’.

As I argued several months ago, the prudent strategy for Ukraine would have been to retreat to the Dnieper, fortify key points, rebuild severely mauled forces, and limit offensive actions to spoiling attacks and limited local counterattacks over strategically significant objectives. Unless one accepts the increasingly ridiculous narrative that the Russians are suffering significantly more losses on the battlefield than the UAF, the logic should have been to remain on the defensive until 2024 at the earliest.

But this did not happen. Instead, the Ukrainians have squandered their last strategic reserves and can no longer maintain a coherent front line. Indeed, some NATO-trained units have effectively ceased to be viable formations and increasingly the UAF is relying on scratch units (formed out of the remains of other destroyed units). The situation is akin to the Germans in WWII Europe in March 1945. Defeat is now certain and I expect local collapses this summer and fall, and a decisive strategic defeat in 2024.

Why did this happen? Ukraine is a client state of the US and went on the offensive to demonstrate to their paymasters that victory is still possible. Without tens of billions of dollars, Ukraine would collapse in short order. They are exhausting themselves for no gain. Despite earlier mistakes, the Russian performance has been impressive, with rapid modernisation (especially ISR capability, drones, air defences – the T54/55s were used as assault guns, not as MBTs) and increased competence in combined-arms operations. I have confidence in the speculative estimates of 350,000-400,000 Ukrainian dead vs 40,000 Russian dead (17000 Wagner included). One may object with the observation that the frontline has been static over the last six months. This is true, but the objective of war is to destroy the enemy in the field. Once that is done, then territory can be rapidly gained.

At this point, discussions of morality and who started the war are irrelevant. The reality is that Russia is going to win, and that the United States will suffer a catastrophic strategic defeat, with much worse repercussions than the loss in Indo-China. Exactly what the Russian objectives are is unclear, but the consequences for NATO, if it survives as a workable alliance, will be felt for generations.
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August 23, 2023 10:22am
- Handyman
  
  I agree. Russia military is entirely geared for defence. Attacking Russia, even by NATO, is dumb and doomed. Western nations are simply not prepared for casualties of 500,000 men, but Russia is.
  My prediction has always been that the settlement will result in a direct NATO/Russian border in the Ukraine area. But where? and when?
  The US has achieved its goal to weaken and deplete the Russian military with US weapons. In a truce deal, it could allow Russia to keep Crimea and the annexed regions, accepting that neither side give up future claims.
  Gas will again flow to Europe with Ukraine clipping the ticket.
  Then there is a UN peacekeeping force (that looks a lot like NATO) to occupy Ukraine giving Ukraine a chance to recover economically. Ukraine will not join NATO.
  Then we will see repeat of the post USSR where massive foreign investment and massive mineral wealth will end up in a group of oligarchs in the most corrupt country in Europe.
  Ukraine will not meet any of the requirements to join the EU.
  Russia will not attack again for many years.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:01am
  - OverseasKiwi
    
    There is no evidence to suggest that Russian military equipment has been degraded. Quite the opposite, as the army/airforce is fighting with more sophisticated weapons in increasing numbers than six months ago. We need to remember that it takes several years to expand an army (cf. 20% of the infantry battalions in the German army in September 1939 had yet to be formed, 90% of the tanks were training tanks, and 70% of the army had not been adequately trained – this after 6 years of expansion). It is an irony that this war has depleted NATO and exposed its deficiencies, not Russia.
    
    People have mistakenly thought that Russia is only concerned with the acquisition of territory. NATO expansion is the central issue. I do not think that Russia will accept UN peacekeepers and will not permit the Ukrainians to recover their strength. Nor do I think that Ukraine will be divided on West/East Germany lines. As a sidenote, I think that New Zealand will have to navigate very carefully in the burning building that is the emerging multipolar world. It will require some diplomatic skill to be achieve a measure of economic prosperity and not annoy those more powerful than us.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:24am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      It looks increasingly as if Russia’s objectives are to decimate the Ukrainian military and infrastructure which they appear to be doing quite well.
      No interest in land acquisition, instead absorbing Ukrainian assaults while inflicting punishing losses.
      Nothing that the west has sent them has made any significant difference other than to give Russia trophy equipment to display for their public’s amusement, while embarrassing the US and NATO.
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:14pm
- NothingLeft
  
  There are a few public domain sources tracking (with documentary evidence) losses on both sides in Ukraine. Oryx since start of war, and Andrew Perpetua more recently since Oryx announced they will cease doing it soon. And it is exceedingly clear (with picture proof) that Russians are losing many multiples of what the Ukrainians are. Both materiel and troops.
  
  Russians demonstrate near total disregard for their soldiers, launching unsupported meat-wave infantry assaults with literal guns-to-heads to force reluctant, poorly armed and frequently drunk troops to attack, and with next to no medical support or culture of care for wounded meaning a far higher proportion end up dead.
  
  Their quarter million conscripts have been mostly turned into fertiliser – Russia are on brink of having to do another huge conscription (though that takes months to deliver troops to front lines).
  
  Current russians army has an enormous technology and training gap. Since using up their professional army their loss rates have increased, while Ukraine has, since start of war, greatly improved equipment and training as well as attriting critical Russian elements of counterbattery radars and artillery to shift balance of lethality strongly in their favour.
  
  The war is moving Ukraines way – with superior artillery range, precision and mobility they are able to attrit Russians with relatively low losses. Russian ‘steamroller’ narrative popularised by the perennially wrong Col Douglas MacGregor promised Russia would wipe out Ukraine any day now for a year – and yet Russia continues to be beaten back and back as they chew through remains of their decrepit stocks of Great-Grandpa’s guns. Russia has recently launched a few desperate attacks in North (Luhansk) to try and draw pressure from their staggering southern defence, but even there have made no significant impact.
  
  Yes Ukraine is getting worn down and is paying a dreadful price, but less so than Russia. Unlike Russia they are still rotating units to recover and still have a significant quantity of not-yet-committed combat reserves and they are able to pick and choose effective lines of attack with useful results. Russia however is on the back-foot almost everywhere, have long since ceased troop rotations and have been putting their VDV special forces on front line – which is a sign that they’ve exhausted normal combat reserves.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:33am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    That’s brilliant, do tell me why with all of this amazing success, Ukrainian troops haven’t even managed to get to the FIRST actual Russian defensive line?
    Looking forward to the detailed analysis with evidence.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:08pm
    - Cinematic
      
      They have.
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:24pm
    - rangitoto
      
      They are already through the so called Surovkin line in some places. The remaining fortifications are there but useless if they can’t be sufficiently manned. Incidentally Surovkin appears to have disappeared after the Wagner mutiny.
      
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      August 23, 2023 2:04pm
  - OverseasKiwi
    
    With respect, you are talking complete nonsense (NothingLeft). To take one claim of yours, that Russia is undertaking human wave attacks regardless of cost to achieve its military objectives. This is in fact a relatively accurate description of what Ukraine has been doing. The well-equipped and -trained Ukrainian army of 2022 is mostly destroyed, with the irreplaceable loss of experienced and able NCOs and junior officers, who are the backbone of any modern army. Russia is not the Soviet Union, and there is little public tolerance for high casualties. In fact the evidence suggests that the Russians, like the Americans, are dependent on mass firepower to minimise losses and are carefully husbanding their manpower just in case there is conflict with Poland. Quite frankly, Oryx’s “research” is not to be taken seriously. My main point remains – the Ukrainian army is being outfought, outgunned, and is barely surviving in the field against an increasingly lethal enemy. This is not to say that at a local level that the UAF is not dangerous, but it cannot concentrate enough force at a decisive point in the face of superior Russian firepower.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:13pm
    - Cinematic
      
      If that were the case the Russian army would be in Kyiv by now. Instead, Ukrainian drones are buzzing around Moscow. All Russia has done for the last 12 months is retreat. The retreat may be building speed, but that’s too early to confirm.
      
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      August 23, 2023 12:27pm
      - OverseasKiwi
        
        Do you know the Russian timetable and objectives? I don’t. It is idle to speculate about either. We will just have to wait and observe events unfold. It is an irony that many on this forum have an obsession about the amount of territory which each side controls. This obsession has more in common with Hitler’s insistence on holding every inch of ground rather than his generals, who were willing to trade space so that they could concentrate their forces for a decisive blow. As for the drones, Russia has by far the most sophisticated air defence system in the world. if it is having problems with drones, how do you think other countries will cope?
        
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        August 23, 2023 1:05pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Equally respectfully you’re wrong. Watching front line reports closely for last 6 months Ukraine has been mostly sitting back probing but avoiding suicidal advances and happily attriting Russians kamikaze efforts by politically minded generals focused on meaningless goals like Bakhmut. But I guess we’ll see in a couple of months. So far tales of Russian military supremacy have been hugely overblown, satellite pictures of emptying heavy weapons storage yards in Russia show they are rapidly exhausting stores (eg sending 60-70 year old T54 tanks to the front). Bear in mind it’s normal to lose as much to mechanical failures and accidents as to combat losses – meaning the rate of attrition is far worse than it appears. A lot of Russia’s stored weapons are fit only for scrap after sitting outside in damp conditions for 50 years and being picked over by corrupt military for anything with scrap value.
      
      Cheap ukrainian FPV drones are now routinely destroying Russian tanks far from front lines, making them near useless. $500 drones beat $2,000,000 tanks, and Ukrainian destruction of rail infrastructure that Russia depends on as well as their counterbattery radars and artillery have ended Russia’s previous artillery advantage – leaving them seriously weakened. Russia has largely exhausted its woefully inaccurate prewar cruise missile stocks too, meaning low rate of fire with little military effect is supported only by monthly production. In contrast accurate Western cruise missiles and glide bombs that Ukraine is now using are making Russian rear-bases less and less tenable.
      
      Russia are clearly the second best army in Ukraine and have been losing ground and masses of equipment for a year. If Ukraine gains territory back to the shore of Sea of Azov then they can interdict it, and by extension the Black Sea making it near impossible for Russia to hold Crimea. Russia would then need to cease fighting or escalate (nuke, very unlikely).
      
      I think most likely outcome over next year is that Russian military continues to degrade and lose effectiveness and get pushed back. Winter may be terminal for them in south lacking logistics, and I think Ukraine make it to Azov in early 2024 and from there retake whole south (Zaporizhzhia, left bank Kherson), and then Russia sues for peace with deal to let Russia keep Luhansk and Donetsk in east, and perhaps Crimea. Ie nearly back to pre ’22 borders.
      
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      August 23, 2023 3:01pm
  - Cinematic
    
    The next 2-3 weeks will be very interesting. A ghastly affair, not for one second did Putin think Ukrainians would be this hardcore.
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:23pm
    - OverseasKiwi
      
      I think that the UAF has shot its bolt. The question is whether it has a plan B. I doubt it. What will happen when Russia commits its reserve forces and fully unleashes its firepower? I don’t know, but I suspect that if one sector of the front breaks, then the whole thing may collapse soon afterwards. Where are the trained- and equipped- strategic reserves? I see none.
      
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      August 23, 2023 1:12pm
      - Grunter
        
        OS Kiwi – I agree with all your commentaries above. Maybe we are in the same rabbit hole – but I doubt it.
        
        There is simply no logical way that Russia gets smashed over by NATO. And the risk of nukes if they ever did get rolled is real in my opinion. (Why wouldn’t they?)
        
        What is 100% clear, the West will never take over and neutralise Russia (nukes come before that). So therefore how does NATO stop a Russian conventional force from grabbing eastern Ukraine? Answer – they can’t.
        
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        August 23, 2023 3:13pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        ” how does NATO stop a Russian conventional force from grabbing eastern Ukraine”
        
        Incrementalism, they boil the Russian frog in its pot, with steadily improving weapons supplied to Ukraine that slowly shift balance of lethality against them, avoiding step increases that might provide a single point motive for nuclear escalation. Fielded drone tech is rapidly improving – last week saw introduction of ukrainian non-kamikaze FPV micro-bombers. In large numbers with thermal vision and some onboard AI to overcome electronic warfare (no doubt being developed) they are likely a war-winning technology. Also Ukraine are ramping up production of many drone types for different applications from torpedos, to long range cruise missiles, v1 type buzz bombs, reconnaissance,
        
        The western military industrial complex has a clear agenda to:
        1/ Draw war out as long as possible to profit from manufacture of equipment.
        2/ End Russia as a superpower as cheaply and safely as possible. (appears to be nearly done)
        3/ Learn what works on battlefield – Smart drones and missiles are clearly the future, conventional armies are nearing obsolescence.
        
        Ukraine is still mostly only using western 30 year old surplus from cold war, – all that military aid is actually in many cases antiquated stuff that was scheduled for disposal, and so near zero cost to supply to Ukraine.
        
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        August 23, 2023 4:09pm
      - Cinematic
        
        What’s unfolding across the front, in sectors of Ukraine’s choosing, is exactly what happened prior to the liberation of Kherson city. A gradual relentless grinding down of Russian rear areas. Why not take your time when you have superior weaponry and value your soldiers lives? Now the Ukrainians are making strategically significant advances. Ukraine holds the initiative and Putins end is nigh.
        
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        August 23, 2023 6:02pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      It isn’t the Ukrainians being hardcore, they are fully supported by NATO and the CIA. The only thing missing is troops on the ground.
      
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      August 24, 2023 8:30am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Yes, and one obvious support for this version of the ‘truth’ is the rebellion of the Wagner group – both because they were being used as cannon fodder AND they were saying the Russian military leaders were fools. Then they even were fired upon by Russians, who were mining their rear areas (similar to NKVD blocking and Sovier era conduct).
    The BBC did some good investigation of satellite imagery of military cemetaries, visits to war graves, enquiries into deaths via family members, and even working out identities which showed that prisoners were being recruited for the front, and dying in high numbers along with other conscripts. I know that some will cry “Raargh! BBC!”, but in this case the images and the graves and the bios of some of the dead was showing something that does fit both with historical form and the nature of wars of attrition. They did suggest that Russia was using these people are keeping back the better class of troops.
    However, given the huge gap on ‘facts’ here, it seems that people are choosing what they want to believe pure and simple: “Look! This site says 100,000 Ukrainians killed to 10,000 Russians! Look! This site says 100,00 Russians killed for 10,000 Russians!”.
    All I will say is a middle ground perspective, that the Russians have failed in what they wanted as a short war (halted) – their leadership and even troop motivation is suspect from the beginning. Ukrainians dont have the reserves of Russia, and their recent offensive is advancing at a snails pace at best. Both sides are bleeding out in their own fashion, and their political support should not be assumed to be inexhaustable.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:20pm
  - Grunter
    
    NothingLeft – even the western MSM now disagrees with you (apart from the BBC nutters). Why would the propaganda machine start saying that the Ukraine counter offensive is failing?
    
    And even if you are correct, where does that lead the world to? Smashing the Russians and then what? Regime change?
    
    The Russians have 6,000 nukes including in subs all around the planet. If the ‘West’ wants to test the nuclear umbrella theory, then smashing the Ruskies on their own doorstep is the way to do it.
    
    Is that what YOU want ……..NothingLeft?
    (Ironic Blog Name by the way….)
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:54pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      The war has never been about Russian “regime change”, even though that would not be a bad thing at this stage IMO.
      I used to be something of a Putin fan, but perhaps know a bit more than when I previous though he was a strong man and an ‘ends justifies the means’ patriot. There is far too much darkness and criminality around him.
      
      The war has only been as a result of an invasion – and the use of the term ‘counter offensive’, as you gave, is a hint about it being a REPLY to an offensive.
      
      I think at the minimum what reasonable folk would want is an end to the war, and that means the Russians going home.
      Go Home.
      Pretty simple, really, when you remove the Rah Rah, my team! Gooooo team!!
      
      All of the above points do not require treating the Ukrainians (or Zelensky as some percieved extension of the national character) as either Goodies or Baddies, which is a bit of a distraction and seems to be allowing more than a few posters to lose nuance or scepticism of the wildly different stories even offered here today.
      
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      August 23, 2023 3:31pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      Since when are legacy media reliable? They’ve become practised liars who barely even pretend at objectivity and will generally only publish stories that align with their preferred spin on major political issues – like Ukraine war support.
      
      Like everyone I’d like to see peace in Ukraine ASAP, ideally a withering of Moscow’s Mafia power over the federation – they are wrecking their military forever and will have far less ability to threaten in future (the one positive outcome of this war). Aside from which Russia is facing long term collapse due to demographics and bad govt + bad education system (Peter Zeihan does pithy discussions on this topic). This is a last-gasp war of the Soviet cessation and probable dissolution.
      
      Hopefully that leads to a gradual economic shift of western federation states towards deeper economic and political engagement with Europe as has happened to the rest of Eastern Europe over the last 30 years, which has really been a win for everyone.
      
      Sadly the world is going to see a lot more nuclear weapons in future – as the real lesson of Ukraine is that whatever treaties say (ie Budapest Memorandum), noone will jump to your defense when a nuclear power attacks you. But 40-70 year old soviet nukes are likely almost all duds at this point. They need a lot of maintenance (tritium decay, batteries, some electronics components that don’t last, finicky rocket components) that won’t have been done over last 30 years. Maintaining legacy systems is very expensive, USA spends $50Billion a year on a smaller nuke arsenal than Russia, and Russia demonstrates daily that they are all about cutting corners and siphoning off money into big mens’ pockets wherever possible. They probably have a few 100’s of functional nukes in their crumbling navy and airforce, but probably not thousands.
      
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      August 23, 2023 3:41pm
cmm

“Free prescriptions” are becoming less and less of an attraction as more and more pharmacies are doing it of their own accord without costing the taxpayer a penny.

Today my wife and I picked up prescriptions from our usual pharmacy. Free.

I expect they’d been losing customers to the two pharmacy about a km or so away that had been doing free prescriptions for ages and realised they need to get into the game too.

See – this is how a (semi) free market works. Pricing and competition sort things out without the government needing to nanny state things to death.

Rather than us taxpayers give the pharmacies an extra $5 per prescription to make them “free”, the pharmacy itself has figured out a way to make it happen. This is a much better deal.
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August 23, 2023 10:23am
- rouppe
  
  That’s because the Labour “free prescriptions” policy took effect from 1 July…
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:05am
  - cmm
    
    Ah, I thought it was only kicking in next year.
    
    Thanks for the clarification.
    
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    August 23, 2023 11:50am
- Rich Prick
  
  Yes, but “free” is only good when the socialists do it.
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:23pm
  - Paulus
    
    There is no such thing as a free lunch whatsoever.
    Someone has to pay !
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:30pm
greybeard

Kiwirail’s “Interislander” service must be the unluckiest organisation in NZ.
Or badly-run and maintained.
Or jinxed.
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August 23, 2023 10:50am
- Taieri
  
  Mostly poorly managed. Very little maritime experience in the higher echelons of the Interislander. And not much better on the commercial side as verified by the purchase and subsequent use of their freight only vessel Valentine – an ideal ship for a coastal run, but a complete dud for the Cook Strait.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Other ships don’t have as much trouble as these ferries.
  Sabotage?
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:48pm
  - Taieri
    
    Other ships don’t have as much trouble as these ferries.
    Sabotage?
    ———–
    
    Poor management, old tonnage, intensive route, inclement weather.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:06pm
- cmm
  
  Cook Strait is also hard yards on ships. Many ferries (eg the second hand/clapped out jobs often bought by NZ) are perhaps not the best design for those waters. This causes increased wear and tear and outages.
  
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  August 23, 2023 4:14pm
Maggie Pie

Mt Albert Green Party supporter queries Ricardo March…..

“We voted to raise taxes on property owners, not renters.
Why did our rent go up?”
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August 23, 2023 10:56am
- cmm
  
  Maybe nanny doesn’t know best?
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:59am
- RoboRob
  
  And that is the whole problem with the economic illiteracy of many of our MPs, particulary those on the left. Having people making decisions for the country when they dont even understand the concept of pricing being a function of costs has been a disaster for NZ.
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:02am
  - Taieri
    
    Contemporary politicians of just about all options are far more interested in social engineering and pursuing currently “progressive” causes than in the mundane, pragmatic and effective management of the country in their care.
    NZ is crying out for its very own Lee Kuan Yew, but there isn’t one on the horizon…
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:20pm
- Matt Long
  
  Is that a joke Maggie or did they really find a green supporter stupid enough to go on record with it?
  I guess green supporters are either morally or mentally handicapped, so could be true.
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:39pm
Ghost

What a stupid idiot.

Biden faces brutal backlash for ‘poor taste’ jokes while visiting Maui wildfires site: ‘Comic relief tour’
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August 23, 2023 11:36am
- Taieri
  
  What a stupid idiot.
  ———
  
  Are there any smart idiots?;)
  
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  August 23, 2023 11:39am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Coolio had a ‘Educated fool’ line in Gangsta’s Paradise.
    And he even used the comma correctly in the song’s title.
    Word.
    
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    August 23, 2023 1:57pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Apostrophe catastrophe, Fuzzy!
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:26pm
I remember when

Just been looking at an ongoing poll that shows that 37.6% think that covid restrictions were removed too soon.

So over one in three potential voters!
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August 23, 2023 11:39am
- cmm
  
  They still believe the Pink Rincess.
  Scary.
  
  But many people don’t want to believe they were duped. They don’t want to believe they jabbed their kids based on lies. It is far easier to just ignore reality and double down.
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:35pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  And it’s important to note that not all of those people are hard Left. Many of them will be the floating middle that are currently leaning towards National.
  
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  August 23, 2023 1:40pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Seems hard to believe, as I find most people think it was a big nothing in the end. A huge wasteful brain fart over the flu.
  But on Twitter there are the ‘Labour saved us – show some gratitude – thank Saint Jaxxicinda that NACTSs were not running the country then’-brigade.
  
  However, even if it was even half or a third of that % number, it does kind of put the re-litigation of the detail of the Covid response, or apology over mandates =a huge vote winner for the first party to do it, into perspective. Winston First probably picked up 2 or 4% by that road at best and the potential in the opposite (negative) direction could potentially be nearer ten fold, if the above poll is correct.
  
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  August 23, 2023 2:05pm
- greybeard
  
  Does this “ongoing poll” allow multiple votes by the same person ?
  
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  August 23, 2023 5:18pm
Maggie Pie

Talk about guilt-tripping!

How sickening is this…..

https://twitter.com/2GB873/status/1693877129140654259
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August 23, 2023 11:47am
- miltonF
  
  Child abuse.
  
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  August 23, 2023 3:33pm
Ghost

Smart thinking by the worker

An Auckland dairy worker turned their store into a makeshift holding cell yesterday afternoon after a teen attempted an armed robbery.

Detective Senior Sergeant, Scott Armstrong said an 18-year-old approached a superette on Queens Rd, Panmure at around 2.50pm yesterday.

The teen presented a knife towards a staff member working in the shop at the time and made demands.

As the offender jumped behind the counter and stole the cash register, it proved to be a distraction as the worker left the store and trapped the offender inside.

“Police were contacted, meanwhile the offender began to force his way out of the shop,” said Armstrong.

According to police, the teen managed to escape and fled on foot towards Pilkington Rd.

However, officers were soon in the area and found the man before arresting him.

Article
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August 23, 2023 11:53am
- cmm
  
  The most surprising bit is that the cops bothered turning up.
  
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  August 23, 2023 12:32pm
  - David Garrett
    
    cmm Quite so…since a knife was involved they would normally do diddly squat until they had completed a “risk assessment”
    
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    August 23, 2023 12:39pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      A while back a guy robbed a motorcycle parts store in Christchurch. The staff and some bystanders chased him down and detained him. They phoned the police.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-police-tell-tradies-to-let-robber-go-after-citizens-arrest/L565EJI35FFFNOVYO2VD4WWMPE/
      
      ““He put up a big fight. I just had enough. I put him in a headlock, sort of tripped him backwards and put him on the ground on his back. That was enough for the four guys, one on each arm and one on each leg to actually hold him down,” Creedy said.
      
      “He kept yelling, ‘if the police come I’m going to go back to prison’.”
      
      …..
      
      “But police told Creedy and his workmates to “let him go”.
      
      “The police asked if he had any weapons and I said ‘not that I can see’. I’m disappointed in the police. We had the guy, he could have been prosecuted, but he got away scot-free.
      
      “We just stepped back and let him go and he took off down the street,” Creedy said.
      
      Christchurch Metro Area Commander Superintendent Lane Todd said police couldn’t attend every callout “due to the nature of police work”.”
      
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      August 23, 2023 1:24pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Ginny said there are 1,500 more police.
        And Coster said there aren’t issue about resources!
        The police not turning up in that instance is a failure of their responsibilities, regardless of the excuse around ‘prioritisation’.
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:37pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: The cop is full of shit.
        
        I have posted her before what when I was a student one of my part time jobs was at a bottle store, normally as doorman, trying to detect shoplifters. When we got one we held them – probably illegally – and called the cops. They always came, and usually only 30 minutes or so after they had been called.
        
        There has clearly been a major change in police policy in 30 years.
        
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        August 23, 2023 2:39pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    The bus ticket is being moistened as we speak.
    
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    August 23, 2023 2:38pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone else been watching TV3’s new docu-drama ….’FAR NORTH’?
It’s supposedly about the attempt a few years back to smuggle about 500kg of meth from China in a fishing boat and land it on Ninety Mile Beach.

Not sure who produced or directed it, but honestly, if I was Chinese, Tongan, or a Maori, I’d be fuming!!
There’s NO WAY any of them could be as dumb as they’re made out to be 🙁

In fact it’s sooo blatantly racist, it’s a wonder Meng hasn’t come out of the woodwork to put his ten cents worth in.

Just saying.
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August 23, 2023 1:04pm
Benedict Yu

New Zealand election odds…

On the Australian TAB, National has shortened from $1.45 to $1.25.

Labour odds now $3.75 (last week it was $2.75)

https://www.tab.com.au/sports/betting/Politics/competitions/NZ%20Politics
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August 23, 2023 1:20pm
- mandk
  
  Bring back iPredict!
  
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  August 23, 2023 1:21pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes. Destroying ipredict was sadly a very bad decision by Simon Bridges.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/74438852/ipredict-to-close-after-govt-refuses-anti-money-laundering-law-exemption
    
    I met the guy who founded it at a social event. Can’t recall his name. He had gone on to work on data analysis in the social investment agency set up by Bill English.
    
    Honestly how was ipredict a bigger money laundering risk than the NZ TAB?
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:56pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Putting a bet on Labour at $3.75 is as big a waste of money as Klarkula matching donations to Labour 1:1. You might as well put your cash in a pile and set fire to it.
  
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  August 23, 2023 1:37pm
- Biscuit
  
  But Chippie tells us he hasn’t yet begun to hand out bribes he knows we can’t afford, Benedict…
  
  Oops, I meant CAMPAIGN…
  
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  August 23, 2023 1:39pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Put $10,000 on Labour.
  
  If Labour wins, you win.
  
  If Labour loses, you win.
  
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  August 23, 2023 6:55pm
BeaB

I just hope Luxon is practising for the debates because Chippy will come out firing. Smart arse ripostes are his bread and butter.
Luxon is at his best when he speaks plainly and clearly about issues that matter – and there’s really only one: how the economy is hurting every one of us.
He must not allow himself to be drawn into pointless and irrelevant side issues. Concentrate on the economy and the incompetent wastefulness of Labour that got us into this mess.
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August 23, 2023 1:55pm
- lifesgood
  
  Who are you kidding? Luxon will wipe the floor with Chippy who doesn’t have the answers, doesn’t read govt papers, panics and whose voice turns into a squeak when rattled. Luxon is fluent, well informed, can speak without notes and doesn’t get rattled. Whether you like Luxon or not he will make mincemeat of Hipkins. Be interesting to see if there is an impartial moderator, though.
  
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  August 23, 2023 3:58pm
  - cmm
    
    “Chippy who doesn’t have the answers”
    In this modern world we live in you don’t need answers. You just make shit up on the fly.
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:42pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Maybe. But, maybe that’s a one-time trick. What worked for Jaxxie may not work for Chippy.
      
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      August 23, 2023 10:30pm
Hugh Jarse

Just been reflecting on Labours two terms. Labour got in to power in the 2017 election on Winston’s shirt tails because they didn’t get the majority of the vote and National couldn’t or wouldn’t give Winston enough. By late 2019, early 2020 after the Mosque shootings they were behind National in the opinion polls until Covid come along.

In the 2020 election they got 50% of the vote as did most governments around the world. If it hadn’t been for Covid they would probably have been a one term government.

Putting that aside, they have gone on to squander a 50% majority in three years, probably to around 26-27% at election time displaying very clearly how popular they and their policies are in this term. It’s takes a special kind of ineptitude to do this, the damage was so bad that Jacinda had to cut and run to give them a chance at this election. They are an accidental government not once but twice, once with the prince of baubles and once with Covid. I hope the history book’s properly reflect that situation.
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August 23, 2023 2:08pm
- Prince
  
  It’s the $100B extra debt they have piled on, for bugger all results, that I find so reprehensible.
  
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  August 23, 2023 5:16pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Been done before, in the FPP era. The Labour Landslide of ‘72 was wiped out by Rob Muldoon in ‘75; and he in turn was wiped in the popular vote (though not in seats) in ‘78.
  
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  August 23, 2023 10:33pm
Ghost

Second ACT candidate stepped down over Covid comments

ACT leader David Seymour says there’s little the party could have done to vet its candidates.

One candidate has resigned and another has apologised over public comments made during the pandemic response.

The party’s Rangitata candidate resigned, after comparing vaccine mandates to Nazi concentration camps. And another candidate has apologised after spreading misinformation about Covid-19 vaccines.
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August 23, 2023 2:18pm
- David Garrett
  
  Ghost: Oh dear…I have posted here before that a well known female journo – not one of the Irish ones – offered to fuck a good friend of mine if he would identify “the next David Garrett” in the ACT caucus.
  
  It’s taken the journos a good while to find a couple of weak links…but at least they didn’t have to fish more than 20 years in the past as they did in my case.
  
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  August 23, 2023 2:30pm
  - kevn
    
    DG… Goodness me, that must have sooo encouraging for your friend.
    Mostly a well stirred looking lot.
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:22pm
- Sir Henry Morgan
  
  Not sure how the comments are an issue.
  
  The vaccine mandates were totalitarian and worse than useless.
  
  No idea what the vaccines and drowning deaths thing refers to, but almost certainly the media are misrepresenting things again. In any case, shootings got confused with Covid deaths, so the issue of incorrectly attributing cause of death goes both ways and yet the media ignores all that.
  
  I’m so sick of New Zealand’s media.
  
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  August 23, 2023 3:00pm
  - wsk12345
    
    He said that with all the myocarditis, blood clots etc from the jabs, it was hardly surprising that drownings had increased.
    
    And he called the [Mod – deleted] Jabcinda.
    
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    August 23, 2023 6:42pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  To the mainstream media, daring to have a contrary position on the covid mandates is clearly an offense worthy of excommunication.
  
  “Excommunication” is an apt term, because there is a near-religious fervor to some of the pet beliefs of the left.
  
  I’m sure a lot of people will look at that headline and that candidate, and say “so what?” or even “good on her for speaking her mind.”
  
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  August 23, 2023 3:03pm
  - mandk
    
    It amazes me that, even with the benefit of hindsight, many people still think the vaxx was effective and that the mandate was justified.
    
    Neither effective, nor safe.
    
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    August 23, 2023 4:19pm
    - Keith White
      
      Not forgetting, not forgiving. Peace Crimes Tribunals.
      
      8 2
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      August 23, 2023 4:47pm
    - Rumblestrip
      
      And even if someone does approve of the vaccine and mandates, they should still tolerate people having a different view.
      
      They should engage in civil conversation, bring facts and try to change minds, rather than simply declaring that such ideas are “unacceptable.”
      
      Apparently the left loves all diversity… except for diversity of opinion.
      
      10 1
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      August 23, 2023 5:20pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  And now Hipkins is trying to score political points against ACT, calling it the party of antivaxers.
  
  It’s almost like I’ve been right all along about why National & ACT have taken the positions they have – even now.
  
  18 0
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  August 23, 2023 3:13pm
- miltonF
  
  When will David Seymour resign for his misinformation about Covid vaccines? Or does this only work one-way? Rhetorical question.
  
  8 7
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  August 23, 2023 3:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Auckland Council.
“Auckland has the largest Māori population in the country but we have no seats representing Māori voters.”
Here’s an idea Kerrin Leone, get candidates and vote for them. Or do you prefer the appointment of seats that are not voted for – the Tyranny version?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/must-be-stopped-seymour-slams-abhorrent-consultation-on-auckland-council-m%C4%81ori-seats-option/ar-AA1fB4Fl
13 0
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August 23, 2023 2:27pm
Maggie Pie

This from a parliamentary staffer with the Labor party.
If you do nothing else this arvo….at least read the comments 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/MorganGodfery/status/1693878087375786045
8 1
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August 23, 2023 2:35pm
- Ghost
  
  *shivers*
  *rocks back and forth, bad lady gone, bad lady gone*
  
  7 0
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  August 23, 2023 2:40pm
- Prince
  
  Isn’t this guy the ‘political commentator’ who is the go to guy for Radio NZ, TVNZ and the Herald when they want some, ahem, ‘Insightful Political Analysis’ ?
  
  10 0
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  August 23, 2023 5:13pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This comes by email from Hobson’s Pledge.

https://bottomline.co.nz/
4 1
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August 23, 2023 2:40pm
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O:I’m afraid Hobson’s Pledge is about as effective as push starting a stalled submarine.
  
  Dear old Don is a lovely guy, but he’s not a politicians arse.
  
  4 2
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  August 23, 2023 3:09pm
Ghost

Tucker Carlson – Into the abyss: Colonel Douglas Macgregor tells us why the Ukraine war must end now.

“That’s an important question, and not enough people have good answers. At this point I think all of the lies that have been told for more than a year and a half about the Ukrainians are winning, the Ukrainian cause is just, the Russians are evil, the Russians are incompetent, and all of that is collapsing and it’s collapsing because what’s happening on the battlefield is horrific.

“Ukrainians, now we think, have lost 400,000 men killed in battle. We were talking about three hundred, 350,000, a few months ago … in the last months of this supposed counter-offensive which was to sweep the battlefield, they lost at least 40,000 killed. We don’t even know how many people have been wounded, but we know that probably upwards of 40 to 50,000 soldiers are amputees.

“We know the hospitals are full and we know that Ukrainian units at the platoon and company level, that’s with anywhere from 50 to 150 to 200 men are in piecemeal fashion surrendering to the Russians, not because they don’t want to fight. It’s because they can’t fight anymore.
8 3
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August 23, 2023 3:01pm
KH

Another example where the civil servants don’t need to make a system work. It just has to have the appearance of.
Note the name Alison McDonald.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132784074/the-system-is-f-immigration-staff-say-bosses-knew-visa-system-didnt-work-and-ignored-it
7 0
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August 23, 2023 3:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bidens.
Hunter Bidens emails to Ukraine copied on Govt letterheads?
I think that is what this means:

https://feedsnorth.com/comer-hunter-biden-was-copied-on-government-emails-pertaining-to-ukraine/
4 4
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August 23, 2023 3:16pm
Chuck Bird

Should the police be investigated by a totally independent body?

Marie Dyhrberg: Alan Hall retribution swept under the rug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwuPZtE3A-0&list=TLPQMjMwODIwMjNraTMeUz9i6A&index=4
6 0
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August 23, 2023 3:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OK! Something to mess with your head and give you nightmares if you are surrounded by trees. They walk you know….

https://teapartypolls.com/redrebelnews/how-are-these-trees-moving-by-themselves/
4 2
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August 23, 2023 4:42pm
- Keith White
  
  Ents, man, Ents.
  
  6 0
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  August 23, 2023 4:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now you give me nightmares Keith.
    No idea what ‘ents’ are. The google machine is leading me astray.
    
    4 1
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    August 23, 2023 5:53pm
    - Colville
      
      https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Ents
      
      3 0
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      August 23, 2023 6:17pm
  - greybeard
    
    Nah. Triffids.
    
    5 0
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    August 23, 2023 6:38pm
- mawm
  
  I always knew that some were shady.
  
  2 0
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  August 23, 2023 8:23pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Oi oi!
    
    0 0
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    August 23, 2023 10:36pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Birnam Wood.
  
  Macbeth – Act 5, Scene 5
  
  “As I did stand my watch upon the hill,
  I look’d toward Birnam, and anon, methought,
  The wood began to move.”
  
  1 0
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  August 23, 2023 8:32pm
  - Colville
    
    shouldnt have eaten that funny mushroom…
    
    2 0
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    August 23, 2023 9:15pm
Scooter

Ahh the “special” people again, this time poaching 4600 crayfish, along with 11 others. But I thought Maori had a special cultural connection with the sea and land and new how to look after the resources. Pure greed.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/cultural-violation-man-who-poached-4600-crayfish-for-sprawling-black-market-ring-jailed/
14 1
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August 23, 2023 4:59pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The wife and I have seen this in person. Groups of young people pulling large floating baskets and filling it with everything edible. No concerns about size limits, quantities, etc.
  
  They just vacuum an area.
  
  The only reason this guy got caught and jailed is because he was so over the top.
  
  8 0
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  August 23, 2023 6:33pm
  - Colville
    
    This isnt that.
    
    This guy could access “chits” from the Marae for customary fishing… birthdays and funerals are reasonable cases for gathering of food for a party…no problem with that.
    But he then lied about the reasons…must have had someone inside who had the power to write the chits…and then he raped the sea for all its worth.
    He got pinged for selling 4000 crays…I would bet a grand to a pinch of dog shit that his real crime is ten times that.
    
    Kinda interesting tho…he gets a couple of years inside…there was a guy recently that helped his brother kill someone and only got 9 months on a ankle bracelet.. (IIRC)
    
    Go figure.
    
    3 0
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    August 23, 2023 9:22pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden gives money. America first?
700 per household on Maui, but $1400 per person in Ukraine?

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2023/08/joe-biden-brings-up-america-first-admits-hes-against-it/
4 4
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August 23, 2023 5:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I know this is not a true example, but it just shows where Joe Biden’s interests are.
  Many may have forgotten that in his state of mind, he is still POTUS.
  So, who is pulling the strings?
  
  6 3
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  August 23, 2023 5:41pm
Maggie Pie

He’s arrived!!

Check out what Avi has to say. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1694207448952021330
8 1
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August 23, 2023 5:39pm
kevn

Todd Muller…. pffft. Just go.
15 0
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August 23, 2023 5:54pm
- Inthe09
  
  Yes – when the National Party are trying to stay ‘on message’ and this guy continues to want to extend his 15 mins of fame (or infamy?).
  
  The guy needs to check his ego and just bugger off – no – one – is – interested. If the Press ask, say no comment, easy.
  
  7 0
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  August 23, 2023 7:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dodgy.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/green-party-co-leader-reveals-chances-of-working-with-national-after-election/ar-AA1fDmS7
4 1
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August 23, 2023 5:57pm
Swifty

Racism is alive and well!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496433/te-pati-maori-election-billboards-targeted-in-frightening-attacks

Yep, it sure is. Maori Party MPs are saturated in racism. Dripping with it. Their very kaupapa is racist.
16 0
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August 23, 2023 6:21pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  I saw ACT party signs defaced in my city, with a very very rude word on one, and ‘fascist’ on the other.
  Where is the outcry?
  
  I really wonder why the media play into the angle that TPM is being attacked by racists. (Accuse others of that which you are guilty of).
  The first article I saw like this showed one of their signs and it was a ‘Tag’ style, like a persons name, below the branding and no sign it was anything more than the a-political equivalent of a dog peeing on a tree – as taggers are doing with their ‘names’.
  
  3 0
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  August 23, 2023 9:00pm
  - Colville
    
    Locally…a lot of Labour signs are down on the ground… very well destroyed..
    
    I assume their sign guys cant swing a hammer and they all blew over…fell apart in the wind..
    
    must be that!!
    
    1 0
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    August 23, 2023 9:24pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300955677/nz-election-2023-live-hipkins-working-from-hospital-with-his-sick-child
This is not nice for the kids. As a father and grandfather I know how anxious one can be about their wellbeing.
Luckily the Hipkins have been able to keep such things private and out of the public eye, so as not to expose their kids to the news media.
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August 23, 2023 6:30pm
jon

Whilst not actually naming the person, Waititi , TPM party today in question time, had a question for the PM, in which he effectively identified a person before the courts for a alleged heinous crime, by stating the persons position. Clearly a case of contempt of court as individual had name suppression. Is Waititi covered by parliamentary privilege in this instance? If not, one would imagine that anyone could lay a complaint with the police.
6 1
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August 23, 2023 7:56pm
- gorse
  
  Just watched it. Don’t beat about the bush, not effectively, he clearly identified the person. A clear breach of a Court Order. He is in Contempt of Court in my opinion.
  
  [Mod – deleted parts to protect the blog as there is name suppression]
  
  1 0
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  August 23, 2023 10:02pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yep, covered by PP
  
  0 0
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  August 23, 2023 10:38pm
Drone

I see Chris Hipkins has found a way to appeal to all the mum’s in the country. Tough luck National, no sympathy vote for you..
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August 23, 2023 11:09pm
Drone

This is relevant for someone keeping his kids out of the media https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131035399/chris-hipkins-married-but-separated-with-two-kids-doesnt-want-his-family-in-the-limelight
1 0
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August 23, 2023 11:15pm

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