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October 12, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 October 2023

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The Redbaiter

So, with Labour on the nose with so many, a Nats win should have been as easy as falling off a log. Instead they have struggled to gain support. Worse, their inept campaign has delivered their 2017 nemesis Winston Peters a come back opportunity.

How did the Nats stuff things up so badly? Maybe some of these examples of hubris and self denial answer that question.

They failed to strongly oppose Labour’s unwanted cultural changes. Such as changing the name of the country and pushing a mostly made up language over and above English.

They did not push back enough against the radical concept that the TOW established a “partnership” between Crown and Maori. A destructive idea that should never ever have been given legs.

Luxon sold out Sid Holland’s party to the widely despised globalist green left corporations and accepted progressive social mores that as a self professed Christian conservative he should strongly oppose.

As demonstrated by his public shaming of MPs Maureen Pugh for asking valid questions on climate change and Simon O’Connor for tweeting in support of constitutionally correct abortion law change in the US.

Luxon failed to stand for women and girls against savage transexual attacks, saying it wasn’t an important issue.

On Newstalk ZB he said he’d never heard of the WEF, when so many of his energy policies are patterned on the forum’s dictates. He launched those policies at a corporate venue with real connections to the WEF.

Also on Newstalk ZB he said he had not heard of 15 minute cities and didn’t have clue what they were. Scorning people who asked questions on the issue as “conspiracy theorists”. When an easy internet search reveals so many major NZ cities have already embraced the concept. It is impossible Mr Luxon could not have heard of this.

For many voters, these events make it difficult for them to trust him.

Probably the most damaging factor though was his stubbornness on vaccine matters. Mr Luxon and Mr Seymour both made a huge tactical error in not courting the votes of the thousands of NZers who wanted some acknowledgement of their mistreatment.

In a remarkable display of hubris and tactical foolishness, Mr Luxon told people upset by vaccination mandates to vote for somebody else. (He more or less said the same thing to climate change sceptics.)

These mistakes by National (and ACT) and many other similar errors are why NZ First is back. The party has been through some radical changes, with a new board and a new selection of candidates. Many with strong connections to the freedom movement. (and they would never allow Mr Peters to form any kind of alliance with Labour, even if he wanted to.)

National and ACT disdained a large sector of voters, and they will just have to pay the price for this mistake. Both parties now need to think hard about what they will bring to the table in 2026.

Winston probably won’t last the full term. In three years NZ First will have new leadership and new purpose and could even become the major center right party. There is a good chance the Nats will eternally regret Mr Luxon and his failures in 2023.
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October 12, 2023 8:01am
- mister nui
  
  Well said Red. The National fanbois Tony Stuart and the little bloke from Dunedin will be having conniptions over your comment.
  
  I have been saying for a long time that, even if the shampoo salesman can get National over the line, it’s very likely to be a one term government, because of the need to have Winston at the table.
  
  Seymour has also made some terrible mistakes through this campaign, and his rubbishing of anyone who questions the vaccines is what has caused his support to shift to NZ First.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:18am
  - Frank the tank
    
    The problem National has, and to a lesser extent Act is what is now standardized “Right” policy/belief has moved away from where they are as parties combined with the leftward move of the center as the population ages and younger, university-educated people move into white collar occupations.
    
    New Zealand is ripe for a proper, right values party. Act teased it but could never follow through with its promise. If NZ First can flourish post Peters, this might be the best vehicle for it.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:50am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Peters will be the hand break that stops everything you wish for
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:48am
      - peterwn
        
        But he will demand a big price like $3B plus. YOU should be choosing the government, not Winston
        
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        October 12, 2023 10:18am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Peterwn
        
        Yes we should chose, but that’s the dumb system we have, but Peters would have a cheek to say give me three billion while saying it’s not time for tax cuts, that’s 9 billion and most of the tax cut
        
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        October 12, 2023 8:38pm
  - Mark Hanley
    
    The nonsensical musings from KB monikers Red and Nui is a meaninglessness attempt by a Labour Spin Doctor to influence the weak of mind.
    
    The weak of mind are unfortunately being hit hardest by the corrupt Labour Party Hierarchy. Those voters know they haven’t got enough money to service their mortgages and their stomachs so out of desperation will vote for change.
    
    What is more concerning is the potential corruption of the polls. Allowing people to enrol and vote without ID leaves a huge hole in the integrity of our election. A hole that gangs will only be too happy to take jump into.
    
    I asked the young lady at the polling station what will stop another person voting with my name and DOB. She assured me all voters’ details will be checked. REALLY? 3.5 million people checked before the election results are published?
    
    So I asked what happens of an impersonator is found, she said don’t worry both votes will be cancelled. WHAT SURPRISED ME WAS SHE THOUGHT CANCELLING MY VOTE WAS AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION!
    
    CAN’T BELIEVE I’M IN NZ CONCERNED ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF OUR ELECTION.
    
    PLEASE MESSRS LUXON AND SEYMOUR. THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE EGREGIOUS CRIMES AGAINST THE GREAT PEOPLE OF NZ MUST GO TO JAIL!
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:37am
    - Sacha
      
      You are sounding a bit hysterical this morning MH.
      All votes are checked twice – once on the day, and and then validated by checking the name on the Voting Roll. Remember ‘provisional counts’ that we used to hear about on election night? The reporter would give ” provisional results from X of XX polling booths in the XYZ electorate”
      The final approved count would be 3-4 weeks later, as every vote cast on election day was checked, and any duplicates deleted.
      If the methods of vote counting have been changed recently, perhaps someone would tell us about it.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:04am
      - peterwn
        
        In plural voting situations perhaps both voting papers would be put to one side initially. If the total number of plural votes would be insufficient to overturn the party or electorate vote that may be the end of the matter (apart from investigations and possible prosecutions). Otherwise the ‘plural’ votes would be looked at carefully. The voting paper has a sticker to conceal the roll number but authority to remove the stickers can be granted (and those involved would be sworn to secrecy) so the actual papers can be identified. In most cases the authorities would be able to determine which voting paper is false (eg from a polling booth well away from where the voter lives). Even if there are a few cases where whichever is the false paper cannot be determined it would be very rare that these instances could affect the final outcome.
        There was a case years ago where all the voting papers from a booth had gone astray but there was a separate record of the number of votes cast. Chief Returning Officer obtained an opinion from the Solicitor General that a result could still be declared as the absence of these papers would not have affected the outcome.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:45am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Sacha. If I’m sounding a bit hysterical, I am (on the inside).
        
        Until 6 years ago I sailed along politically inactive (besides voting) safe in the knowledge that nz was the last corrupt country in the world and Labour and National weren’t that far apart.
        
        I did have some concern at Helen Clark’s and Michael Cullens unexplained post politics wealth.
        
        And then along came Adern. She couldn’t believe her luck at fooling voters and NZ FIRST into thinking she could run a country.
        
        Adern knew her days as PM were limited and that voters would eventually realize she didn’t have the skills or intellect for a job more senior than wrapping fish and chips.
        
        Covid came along and Adern milked it for all she could. Lying to, swindling, and murdering NZ ers in her quest for a handsome Pfizer stipend.
        
        Adern may have left but her mentor Clark and partner in crime Robertson are still on board the good ship tax payer bounty
        
        And now I would not be particularly surprised to find out the fraudsters have gerrymandered the election.
        
        So please excuse me if im a bit hysterical watching my wonderful country corrupted by murderous crooks.
        
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        October 12, 2023 2:26pm
    - greybeard
      
      You are correct, Mr. Hanley.
      I posted this recently and it seems a good time to repeat it:
      Let us say that my voting papers are stolen from my letterbox and that someone uses my card to vote for Party “A”.
      Because I then do not have a voting card, I then go along in person and vote for Party “B”.
      Now there are two votes both in my name, and of course these duplicates are discovered at counting time: which one is deemed to be legitimate?
      Does Party “A” get my vote, or Party “B” ?
      What steps (if any) are taken (or can be taken) to find the spurious voter ?
      Well, according to the NZ Voting website this happens:
      “To begin the official count, returning officers create a master roll which lists the names of people who voted in each electorate. We call this ‘scrutinising the roll’. We scrutinise the roll to identify voters who may have voted more than once. If someone has voted more than once, we don’t include their voting papers in the official count.”
      So neither my valid vote for Party “B” nor the invalid vote for Party “A” are counted.
      But identifying the illegal voter seems to be overlooked. And their objective has been achieved – my valid vote for Party “B” no longer counts !
      So: if my genuine vote can be negated by someone else’s invalid vote , and that person cannot be identified, does that not make the current system worthless ?
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:20am
      - rockape
        
        They check with the address as to when you voted and that vote counts. To achieve the fraud they would have to raid your mailbox daily until they got the confirmation form. The system is better than most think.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:01pm
      - rouppe
        
        Why I haven’t thrown out my Eze vote card, which arrived after I voted.
        
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        October 12, 2023 8:13pm
      - miltonF
        
        @rockape
        
        That’s irrelevant. They could just cast the duplicate vote on the last day of voting. All of the voting packs would have been sent out by then.
        
        Or am I missing something?
        
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        October 12, 2023 9:09pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Even you don’t believe Redbaiter is a “Labour spin doctor” Mr. Hanley.
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:40pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        OH YES I DO!
        
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        October 13, 2023 7:52am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Grow up, Nats still at 37%, only one party letting us down
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:47am
    - mawm
      
      Once again the party faithful are shooting the messenger instead of taking a good hard look at themselves and the failings of their party and their leader.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:52am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Nats have never polled higher than 37% on one news, they are still there, they were never going to get high 40s because of Acts support, you can’t get both, only one party losing support snd that is as clear as the nose on ya face, but party faithful are to blame.
        
        What about ACT party faithful that are talking shit
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:14am
      - peterwn
        
        What failings? Chris Luxon and co have done a fantastic job under difficult circumstances. Labour is the hare and National the tortoise.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:16pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No Mister Nui, I’m too busy campaigning to win every vote we can and bring about a change of government. Red’s entitled to his opinion, and I’m entitled to disagree with it.
    
    Gotta run; only 56 hours and 23 minutes until the polls close, and there’s not time to waste!
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:37am
  - Yabster
    
    lol one term Government? – what alot of bs- they are far from perfect but unless a viable alternative comes along, Liemore will be in opposition along time.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:11am
- Damocles11
  
  You should call yourself ‘the Bluebaiter’ because you seem to just be here to bait and troll National voters. I fully understand what Luxon has done this election, the votes are in the centre; you have to be elected to change the government. Unfortunately New Zealand has been drifting Left for decades, with changing attitudes being largely driven by the media and the tertiary education institutions. Our population has undergone large-scale change due to immigration policies. Luxon is not to blame for this; this is not the New Zealand that Sid Holland would have known.
  Blaming National for the ‘groundhog day’ rise of Peters is unfair, as NZ First usually return to Parliament the election after they have been booted out. That is the cycle we are used to.
  The bleating about Simon O’Connor got boring some time ago, we are told time & again that he’s ‘a nice guy’ but he doesn’t seem to be a particularly effective debater in Parliament, or one of the leading lights as a potential Minister. If he doesn’t like what National are all about he can always set up his own party, preaching radical abortion reform, and he’ll get about 0.2% of the vote along with all the other fringe conservative outfits.
  Being disingenuous by just cataloguing a laundry-list of Luxons purported failings and mistakes, regardless of their validity, is not an honest perspective. People only do this when they’ve got a real axe to grind.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:28am
  - Cassandra
    
    All good points Damocles, but the fact remains that you’ve got to stand for something and Luxon doesn’t seem to. Perhaps that’s unfair but National gives the impression that its programme is decided by focus group. Some radical ideas eg vouchers for schooling, would be attractive. As would a plan to reboot the public service. Also defence is an issue – more of the same won’t wash and he’s a real johnnie-come-lately to even mentioning it. Ukraine, Taiwan and now Gaza – New Zealand can’t just ignore it. And as for the Treaty, there’s got to be a reset – slowing the slide downhill to an ethnostate is disaster.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:55am
    - Warren
      
      Ha ha you continually post negative comments on Luxon but like most on here that dislike him you fawn over David Seymour when he has showed his arrogance and ignorance that has seen his party go from 18% to 9%.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:08am
    - leoj
      
      You have nailed it Cass.
      
      Luxon is trying to please everybody, which is impossible.
      
      Stand in the middle of the road and you get bowled over.
      
      I am ashamed to admit that it took me 14 elections to discover just how weak the poll-driven, namby-pamby, gutless Nats have become.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:28am
      - Paulus
        
        Luxon is a proven first class Manager, but that is what we do not have had recently, only Political hacks.
        To get back to any normality, before Labour get back in, requires sound Management.
        
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        October 12, 2023 10:51am
      - Warren
        
        Take a good look in the mirror then because you are no better than them with your petty insults.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:16pm
      - Damocles11
        
        ‘Stay in the middle of the road and you get bowled over?’ That sounds good but doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Start adopting more radically right wing positions and the voters run for the hills. The endless whingeing about National and ACT has been driven by religious conservatives, Winnie fans, and ‘the covid people’, and you can see how strong their base is: take Winnies 6.5%, add NZ Loyal & New Conservatives and other odds and sods and you are probably at around 9%. These people complain the loudest but there are not a many of them around as they make out.
        The bitter infighting now apparent in this forum will have some people laughing and rubbing their hands with glee, and only some of them will be from the Left side of politics.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:28pm
      - leoj
        
        Damocles:
        
        Under scrutiny, English/Nats 44.5 % of the party vote in 2017 yet Luxon/Nats polling average is around 36%.
        
        The public HAS scrutinized the modern Nats and 20% of their 2017 supporters have given up on them. Why?
        
        Hint: The leadership has gone woke.
        
        That is why standing in the middle of the road doesn’t cut it.
        
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        October 12, 2023 2:45pm
      - Lenticular
        
        @Damocles: Look at Germany. Look at France. Look at Sweden, at Austria, at Finland, Slovakia, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc. Also Brazil, El Salvador, and arguably the USA.
        
        Hard right parties can capture 20%+ of the vote and move the Overton window *back to the right*.
        
        It was only 10 years ago that the National Rally in France was the fringe; the equivalent of National is now defunct. NZ is just a little behind the trend.
        
        Even the Swedes are abandoning their Stockholm Syndrome. Why don’t you?
        
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        October 12, 2023 8:57pm
    - sharont
      
      I think Luxon has come across very well. Seymour on the other hand has let the right bloc down. We now have Winston in the mix thanks to Seymour. Seymour was seemingly running a perfect election, could do no wrong until he got ahead of himself. He was on 15% now down to 9%. Very disappointing.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “They did not push back”
  Well that is a major for Luxon. He does not know how to push.
  Too much of the ‘be kind’ has rubbed off on him.
  HTFU man!
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:29am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    
    If he was a Mr Men character he would be Mr Magnanimous
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:07am
  - Prince
    
    A reminder. national was polling in the early 20’s when Luxon took control.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:47am
    - leoj
      
      I’m sure you mean LOW 20s.
      
      Volume has nothing to do with time.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:23am
- rockape
  
  Hard to fathom how the election is so close yet 70% of voters think the country is going in the wrong direction. National should gave capitalised on that but didn’t. They lacked a vision for NZ and it seems every time Bishop opened his mouth he made things worse. It’s still close and I still think National will scrape in but it will involve NZ First in government and that is never good.
  The country and its finances will continue on a downward trend and any movement against cogovernance will be credited to ACT and NZ Fist as National have been so silent on the subject and in the new government will be seen as followers , not leaders.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:30am
  - dutyfree
    
    It’s not really that hard. If the supporters of greens, national and ACT all agree it is going in the wrong direction that does not equate with voting say the national direction . Equally each voter may have a different set of areas that they perceive going the wrong way. The sentiment is a good predictor of change not necessarily how much.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:08pm
- Rusty
  
  @Redbaiter
  
  And excellent summary of Luxon during this campaign.
  
  All Luxon and Seymour had to do was shut up about Winston Peters
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:35am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    In case you didn’t notice, it was Labour and the Media that kept asking him about Winston. Luxon didn’t bring him up.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:30am
    - Damocles11
      
      You’re not supposed to point that out, join the angry pile-on lambasting Luxon and Seymour for more up-ticks.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Winston coming back has been a Godsend for the so called media, as they were, and still are, floundering in their own excrement.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:53am
- imalwaysright
  
  Red
  
  Well said, he has minority support for a reason and that is that most of the public don’t seem to believe he is the answer.
  The recent drop in support may indicate people are realising that he is a tinkerer rather than the reformer that the country needs.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:37am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Then people supporting other parties better hope he is not the answer, because if he gets things right, and his career path suggests he does not fail, then look out for other parties to be decimated next election, ACT will be below 5% and will never get a sweet ride again, if he can start to turn this country around in 3 years he will get a huge lift never election
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:47pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  A significant percentage of Red’s point relate to climate change. Given the events of the last year, if National had looked like it was seriously questioning climate change, that would have been a huge own goal, and at least in my view would have lost votes (that is, some voters would have stayed with Labour instead of changing to National).
  While I know many commenters on Kiwiblog don’t accept that manmade climate change exists, that is a distinct minority view.
  National has taken a more nuanced approach including giving farmers a decent amount of time to use science to reduce emissions and not imposing taxes on vehicles that are used in business.
  I would note that National has not been very clear about the abolition of the vehicle emissions levy. Their statements are always made in respect of utes used by farmers and tradespeople. But usually prefaced by a general statement that National opposes the emissions levy. So it is not clear whether the levy goes altogether, or whether it goes only in respect of utes and vans used in business.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:47am
  - Cassandra
    
    We need to talk a lot and do only what our trading partners are doing. Act has this one really right. Of course avoid the “denier” label – that’s equal to child molester – but real nuance will get us there. Luxon gives the impression that he’s an enthusiast.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:59am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Luxon has an almost fetish with:
    
    a). Windfarms
    b). Electric vehicles
    
    Like all he fails to acknowledge the pillfalls of both or that in Europe (where this madness started) countries and governments are starting to back away from both of these issues.
    
    I would love for a political party to come out and accept there is nothing significant we can do in regards to climate change and move all funding/activity towards climate adaption.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:01am
    - David Garrett
      
      Frank: Forgive my pedantry…adaption is not a word dear boy…the word you seek is adaptation…meaning to adapt to some change
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:44am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Au contraire:
        
        Adaption is when something has been changed by its environment.
        
        Adaptation is changing or updating something to make it better or more functional in a different setting.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:18am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        😂😂 Correct. A rare grammar defeat for DG.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:56am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘Given the events of the last year,’
    Only a Science Denier would believe Gabrielle was man made
    Here’s some science for you. The flooding was predicted months before the event as the Tongan Eruption of water affected the Southern Annual Mode
    https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/how-a-tongan-volcanic-eruption-almost-guarantees-a-flooded-summer-for-australias-east-coast/news-story/3b1be3a36b5681ce70d7327392ed0129?amp
    And more and more people understand that the Alarmists are wrong-except teenage girls and their Mummies
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:06am
  - Damocles11
    
    Not many realists here Wayne, but more than a few baying for a ‘New Zealand’s Trump’, with Luxon pointing at various journalists and going ‘you are fake news’ and then heading off in pursuit of a US-style conservative agenda. It wouldn’t work but zealots don’t care.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:07am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Wayne. There is a difference between accepting that human emissions cause some warming and sea level rise and saying there is a climate change emergency.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:11am
    - Ehlana
      
      Possibly not to a lot of people Chuck. We seem to live in a world where shibboleths are constantly demanded, and anyone who doesn’t profess rabid allegiance to today’s favourite is derided at best and cancelled at worst.
      I think some of it is media desperate to get our attention. Some of it seems to be people who want to show their virtue by fighting valiantly against evil or oppression – and the greater the evil, the more virtuous their opposition.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:00am
      - Sacha
        
        The problem is that every man and his dog seems to think that they MUST speak their opinions on every passing idea whether they have any knowledge on the subject or not.
        They regurgitate what they have heard or seen on media outlets, without applying any reason or critical thinking. The trouble is that the media aren’t being very logical either.
        The voice of reason is drowning . . . .
        
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        October 12, 2023 10:19am
  - The Redbaiter
    
    Wayne Mapp- “if National had looked like it was seriously questioning climate change, that would have been a huge own goal,”
    
    A statement the left always reach for when there isn’t a shred of evidence to prove it is true.
    
    In the UK Conservative party leader Rishi Sunak is walking away from the very climate change measures that Mr Luxon has made the cornerstone of his election campaign.
    
    He is in the fight of his political life, and by your logic Mr Mapp, deliberately adopting measures that you say will lose him votes. Funny that.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:35am
    - Matt Long
      
      The Brits have already experienced their environmental dividend so it’s a smart time for Sunak to pivot, New Zealand apparently has a lot more suffering it needs to get through.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:19am
    - Cantabrian
      
      Statistics Norway has recently published a paper “To what extent are temperature levels changing due to greenhouse gas emissions?” The Abstract declares that “standard climate models are rejected by time series data on global temperatures” while the conclusions state “the results imply that the effect of man-made CO2 emissions does not appear to be sufficiently strong to cause systematic changes in the pattern of the temperature fluctuations.”
      This is a well-researched paper by credible authors that needs to be read by any who still hang on to the hysterical belief that the world is burning up because of Co2 emissions.
      https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-miljo/forurensning-og-klima/artikler/to-what-extent-are-temperature-levels-changing-due-to-greenhouse-gas-emissions/_/attachment/inline/5a3f4a9b-3bc3-4988-9579-9fea82944264:f63064594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:35am
    - sharont
      
      I agree with Wayne Mapp. If National and Act had come out strongly against climate change then you’re looking at years of a Labour government. Right now, the urgent thing is to get rid of Labour and then work on the rest. People have had climate change pushed down their throats for years and some have imbibed it. You have to be strategic in this climate and that is what Luxon has been.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:28pm
  - leoj
    
    A minority view that climate change is bunk does not mean that climate change is fact. Consensus re climate change doesn’t mean that it’s true.
    
    Al Gore said that there would be no polar ice caps by 2015. Hello!!!!
    
    The modelling is what is false and you have swallowed it, hook, line and sinker in the name of consensus.
    
    The majority may well be wrong. They certainly have not proved their case judging by the quality of scientists who are defecting to the “no proof” side.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    1/The world is warming. But in similar way as previous Minoan, Roman, and Medieval warming periods and following in their pattern of (highly suspicious and unexplained) 1050yr periodicity.
    
    2/It is warming at an historically normal rate and within a temperature range, well within normal Holocene interglacial variation. Rate of sea level change is normal for Holocene, and well below rate and height peaks seen in last 10k years.
    
    3/It’s not an existential risk, it will likely on net improve peoples lives. (Eg for NZ it’s like moving 100km north) Tropical regions will not get significantly hotter (ocean temps are limited to 30°C by evaporation), they’ll just extend to slightly greater latitudes. Cold is more deadly and stunting to plant growth than warmth, Pre-industrial people lived in -50 to +40°C climates and increasing wealth, cheap modern AC, mechanization and agricultural science as well as other tech advances that are spreading even to 3rd world makes it a trivial issue to manage.
    
    4/Climate models are a joke – they can do an OK job of weather prediction over a week but are fundamentally useless for long term prediction because they can not (and never will due to computational complexity) model the dominant thermal effects of water: Evaporation, storm wave mixing, oceanic circulation and upwelling, thermohaline circulation, tropical convection, clouds especially radiation impacts of clouds, condensation, rain, ice etc.
    
    5/Climate change does not deserve even a small fraction of the money being thrown at it. Any money that is spent on it rather than tech R&D (particularly energy sector) is worse-than-useless virtue signalling. The cost in pointless waste and opportunity cost is horrendous and is significantly setting back human development, GDP growth and consequently civilizational resilience (wealth gives more options). It is nothing more than the latest ‘sciencey’ manifestation of age old human psycho-social disease of Millenialism (end of the worldism, an outgrowth of evolved psychological tendency to unwarrented anxiety, that women tend to suffer from most as evolutionarily primary carers for kids).
    
    6/ AI, nuclear war and pathogens are the only true existential risks to humans and civilisation.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:52am
  - I remember when
    
    “That is a distinct minority view.”
    As opposed to ‘Waiting for the proof that there is man-made climate change’.
    A distinctly majority view.
    
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    October 12, 2023 3:54pm
- Simon
  
  “Probably the most damaging factor though was his stubbornness on vaccine matters.”
  
  100%. Luxon to say no to jaxx injuries. Even if you believed in the jaxxs as a PM should consider wider issues that might effect society beyond your own beliefs. Luxon close minded and arrogant. He will not last long as PM.
  
  People generally are appalled at this most harmful govt and National have reduced the harm caused by Labo to general electioneering. Act have also gone quiet. People want some accountability for the last 6 yrs and the only party talking accountability is NZ first.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:56am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What bullshit, vaccine matter s was well and truly fine by the time Luxon was leader, he also stated clearly he could not see the point in mandates
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:09am
    - wsk12345
      
      Must be nice for all those vax injured (and dead) that it’s all done with now. I guess my mate has stopped getting blood clots heading for her lungs. I guess my other mate no longer gets issues from her vax caused shingles. I’m so pleased.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:36pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yeah of course you know heaps of people dead with COVID jab yet no one else can say they know anyone, just possibly blood clots are a normal thing in life and would have happened anyway, I have started getting a hop problem that was not there before COVID jabs 3 years ago, oh looks, I am COVID jab injured ,
        
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        October 12, 2023 8:53pm
  - sharont
    
    We’re still waiting for Winston to enter the Pike River Mine first. You will continue to wait for Winston to get an inquiry into Covid. Winston will probably never mention it again. The man jumps on issues to get votes and many who were against the jab – including me, who has never had it – have fallen for his promises. The most important thing is to get rid of Labour and Winston voters risk him bringing in another Labour government. It doesn’t matter what he says before the election, he ultimately ends up alienating his supporters. That’s why he always has to start afresh each election to try to get across the 5% threshold. His party has been going long enough. Many who are against the jab would normally never have considered voting for him but have fallen into Winston’s honey trap. There are more important issues at the moment than the Covid jab affecting us right now: law and order being paramount among them. Why risk another Labour government by voting for Winston First?
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:33pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      He may not have gone into the mine, but he did go down and walk mask free amongst the protestors when the govt told us that covid was deadly and we should be afraid. The rest of the politicians and press stood on the parliamentary balcony cheering Trevor and his sprinklers and sneering at the river of filth.
      
      “The man champions causes for votes” Yes. That is politics.
      
      And he’s championing a number of causes that people really care about and where other politicians fear to tread. Hence why his poll results are rising. Gender ideology in schools and institutions, Mandates and the vaccine rollout, climate change and the influence of global orgs like WEF and the UN.
      
      Will this be our brexitmoment. Will NZ go into the polling booth and vote for the beliefs that they are shamed publicly for expressing.
      
      The mandates were deeply wrong. NAct still on the wrong side of them. Still haven’t apologised for their grotesque and shaming behaviour to those people. The freedom movement will put Winston back in parliament. It was more than just the people on parliaments lawn. And it’s growing.
      
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      October 12, 2023 4:15pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I am sure Nats said they would have a royal commission of sll things covid, why is this being ignored, apparently Labour is having one but when Luxon was told would you waste money on another he said yes if the parameters are not wide enough
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:56pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Telling a pollster you are going to vote for a Party and actually going to a polling booth and doing it are two very different things.
  Advanced voting is well down on 2020 and 2017. Bad weather is predicted across the country on Saturday. A low turnout favours the Right.
  Andrew Bayly will win the Port Waikato by-election.
  I predict while NZF will get over the line just the Nats and ACT will juust be able to form a Government.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:59am
  - Philview
    
    It is looking like a lower turnout election. Labour can’t bribe people with KFC and Warriors tickets for this one so I think the Left block will take a hit.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:30am
    - Ghost
      
      Is it? Because the figures being released by the electoral commission show more early voters than 2017. Don’t compare it with 2020 because people were rushing out to vote worried they’d be locked down and miss out on voting
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:37am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Advanced voting: At same point 672k in 2017 and 1415k in 2020 (covid), 843k in 2023
    
    Advanced voting is up significantly on more normal comparator of 2017. So can’t read anything into it.
    
    Labour turnout will be bad, low 20’s, but sadly Saturdays weather forecast is fine which will help their turnout and their drop won’t be sufficient for Act and Nats to give Winston the digitus impudicus (impudent finger)
    
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    October 12, 2023 5:19pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  A vote for the Greens is a vote for a Party that supports Hamas. Guilty by association.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:00am
  - My-Gumboot
    
    Or a vote for Labour.
    Last night Hipkins declares that any Israeli response must be ‘proportional’.
    What proportion chippy? A proportional number of kidnappings, rapes, murders?
    No geopolitical awareness or human decency there.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:28am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Hipkins is in the photo of Labour and Green MPs dressed in terrorist’s garb in the photo I put on my FB page.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:45am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Expect a knock on the door with Jack boots to take you away 😃
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      There’s really no such thing as a “proportional” response when terrorist barbarians are beheading babies and young children.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:40am
- Pavel
  
  I believe that the biggest problem National have is that their voters have John Key expectations. He had no fear in calling out bullshit and the opposition humiliated themselves into record low approval ratings everytime they attacked him. In Key we had a real leader and be it a GFC or two massive earthquakes he simply rolled up his sleeves and got things done. Life during the Key years was a lot more comfortable than the last 6. Luxon does not fulfill the Key years expectations that National voters expect of the party. In all fairness to Luxon however, I don’t think there is anyone in the country who could match up to those expectations. Call me a pessimist but I also think people should understand that NZ is on the decline and I don’t believe it is possible we will ever have it so good again. No government is going to be able to revive our economy to the point it was at the day before Jacinda took over.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:32am
  - Matt Long
    
    A government easily could, but will one arise?
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:21am
  - Sacha
    
    I hope your pessimism is misplaced, but –
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:22am
  - Jack5
    
    Under Key, NZ signed up to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
    
    That triggered the separatist, Maorification political and social movement that NZ has endured.
    
    In 2007, NZ had voted against the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Only four countries then opposed the text of the declaration: the US, Canada, Australia, and NZ.
    
    The statement by Rosemary Banks setting out the NZ position in 2007 is worth reading at the link below. A few extracts, as a taste:
    
    “Article 26 stated that indigenous peoples had a right to own, use, develop or control lands and territories that they had traditionally owned, occupied or used.
    
    “For New Zealand, the entire country was potentially caught within the scope of the article, which appeared to require recognition of rights to lands now lawfully owned by other citizens, both indigenous and non-indigenous …”
    
    “The article, furthermore, implied that indigenous peoples had rights that others did not have …”
    
    ” … the Declaration implied that indigenous peoples had a right of veto over a democratic legislature and national resource management … ”
    
    http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/in140907.htm
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:28am
  - Damocles11
    
    I think this country is so far gone to the dogs that, whatever the election result, many many people will be leaving. The brainwashing from the media and in the schools / universities is relentless, we are most of the way there in terms of becoming a listless and broken socialist hell-hole.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:36am
    - Paulus
      
      We are told that we have 100,000 immigrants in the last year but the Employment Agencies do not know where they are.
      They suggest that we may not be bringing in the right people, as they are not seeing people with experience and skills, which we are told cover these people.
      Who are these people ?
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:59am
      - kevn
        
        Paulus… Go to any Pizza Hut, check out the ‘kitchen’.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:09am
      - Damocles11
        
        Hundreds of thousands of people enter, yet we are still short on thousands of healthcare professionals…so, no…we are not bringing in the right people, just people to artificially bump up GDP figures and prop up the property market. All why our infrastructure collapses and the new hospitals and schools don’t get built. Absolute madness, just a gimmick to keep the country ticking along.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:35pm
      - sharont
        
        And KFC. Look at the congregations in the churches. Where are the Maori and Europeans to be found in Auckland – few and far between?
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:40pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      A net 800 kiwis a week have left in last year, not far off 1% of population. And they will be the productive ones.
      
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      October 12, 2023 5:21pm
  - wsk12345
    
    Oh I’m sure there are many kiwis who could. But why would they? Everyone has a skeleton of some sort in the closet, whether it’s a careless use of a MV charge, assault charge from a fight with a “mate” at 18 (happened to a friend of mine), comments made on social media or in the high school speech competition, or any number of other things. Why would anyone who isn’t driven by ego put themselves through the media?
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:40pm
- Nickc2
  
  Put everything you’ve said aside for a minute and answer this: Are you prepared to hand the current Labour, Greens, and Maori coalition responsibility for managing NZ and all that goes with that for the next three years?
  I’m not!!!!
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Here we go again, still at 37% but what has happened to ACT ffs, it’s them that has shed support to NZF, it wasAct that thought they would frighten the voters by suggesting they will blow the coalition up, now he has reneged on working with Peters, he has reneged coalition spoiling, hood for you for blaming Luxon that still has Nats at 37% your support for ACT and its failure is noted
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:46am
  - Damocles11
    
    I won’t know the truth about support for ACT until I see the election result. I just know that the media hate and fear ACT and seek to demonise Seymour at every opportunity, while Winston gets a free ride. I’m not trusting these polls.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:38am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      So every poll in the last 6 or 7 has ACT at 10 or below yet they were 14-15 every poll before and you don’t trust the poll? Pathetic, Seymour’s mouth left people no option but yo head to NZF
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:01pm
- Bullion
  
  What you are wanting from Nats/Act would be deeply unpopular by most of NZ going on Nat/Act/Lab/Grn/TPM/TOP vote accounting for an average of 91% of support from last nights polls.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:41am
- peterwn
  
  An easy trap to fall into is to presume that your political beliefs are shared by the majority. So it is easy to think that that the major parties should move Hard Left or Hard Right. Major party politicians are well aware that this assumption is not valid and would be a vote loser if acted on. In reality the two parties are fighting for the soft left vote – that is what their campaigning is all about.
  For all the negative things said about Chris Luxon and his team, they have achieved amazing things in the last three years. Anyone three years ago would have thought that Jacinda and Labour (with media support) had the 2023 election in the bag. But Jacinda is now gone (you cannot fool all the people all the time) and Chris Luxon now wears the most preferred leader crown. That is pretty miraculous in the circumstances. I think Winston will find the negotiating scene after the election quite different from 2017 and is likely to be in for a rude shock.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:58am
- Chris R
  
  All your points are valid Redbaiter but they’ll pale in comparison to National having Peters in their future government. He is the King of self-serving disruption and personal advancement at the expense of the taxpayer.
  
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  October 12, 2023 2:28pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I agree with most of that, though I’m unconvinced that the Nats’ stance on vaccine mandates is what’s most turning voters off. More likely their weak and equivocal position about so-called co-governance and the treaty. But I do agree that Luxon had no business slapping down O’Connor. All Luxon had to say was Mr. O’Connor”s personal position is not National Party policy.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:46pm
Mark Hanley

Why are the polls beggaring belief?

Here’s why….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFmsLBEAc0

The despicable unintelligent NZ media attempting to fool the good people of our fine land again!

It won’t work.
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October 12, 2023 8:01am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Lasdt night we had Newshub breathlessly and excitedly reporting on their poll which showed a drop in support for the Nats, and Jenna Lynch could not hide her glee.
  
  The editoral spin was all about how the Nats were tanking…
  
  however, AT THE SAME TIME, One news released their poll which showed a RISE in support for the National Party.
  
  Now I am aghast at the prospect of Winston in Government again, but his push for an inquiry into the integrity of the media will be interesting to say the least….
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:17am
  - Vinicius
    
    Re the media. I wish a future government would grow a pair and sell off TVNZ and RNZ. Cannot fathom why they keep them apart from for propaganda purposes for the left.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:37am
    - waikatosinger
      
      Depends on who you sell to. If you want fair unbiased news then selling our news outlets to CNN isn’t going to help. Privately owned does not necessarily mean high quality and unbiased.
      
      The MSM worldwide are suffering under a failing business model and they will sell themselves to anyone who promises to keep the lights on. That could be the government. But it equally well could be George Soros or Klaus Schwab.
      
      Privatising the media is a good idea. But don’t expect it to fix the problem of media bias.
      
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      October 12, 2023 5:06pm
  - RoboRob
    
    The one thing that at all the polls in NZ fail to do (to my knowledge) is ask ‘do you intend to vote’ or what is the likelihood of you voting. It doesn’t matter what party someone nominates in a phone call IF that person doesn’t intend to actually vote.
    
    My gut tells me that those on the right will vote, because they are so frustrated with what’s happened over the last 6 years. I am much less sure the left will actually show up to vote. I think the polls are going to be wildly inaccurate, the non Labour vote percentage will be MUCH larger then expected simply because the Labour voters wont show.
    
    My only question is around disaffected Labour voters. Will they actually go out and vote for the Greens or NZF? I suspect my boss, will vote NZF (he’s a Labour man) but his wife (even harder core labour) has decided not to vote. She would never normally not vote.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:06am
  - David Garrett
    
    Slightly: If you truly believe The Great Charlatan will actually “push for an inquiry into the integrity of the media” I have a catalogue of bridges for sale that you might be interested in.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:48am
    - Ghost
      
      And strangely enough that catalogue has a labour logo on it and bridges for Auckland as the tittle.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:58am
    - greybeard
      
      “I have a catalogue of bridges for sale in which you might be interested”.
      
      ( you are always correcting someone else, DG , so please remember where to place those prepositions!).
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:07am
      - Dave
        
        Not ending sentences with prepositions is a shibboleth. At
        
        https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/prepositions-ending-a-sentence-with
        
        you can find this:
        
        Ending a sentence with a preposition (such as with, of, and to) is permissible in the English language. It seems that the idea that this should be avoided originated with writers Joshua Poole and John Dryden, who were trying to align the language with Latin, but there is no reason to suggest ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong. Nonetheless, the idea that it is a rule is still held by many.
        
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        October 12, 2023 7:04pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Newshub s problem is they had Nats at 40%, that was probably too high, so somewhere in the middle is about right, where does that put them? That’s right. 37%
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:06pm
- Paulus
  
  Look the media have finally got what they have tried very hard to achieve with the current opinion polls.
  Are they accurate ? – not sure as fewer voters have early voted well below previously.
  Does this show apathy or just people are fed up with the feminist left wing media’s interpretation of what they want.
  Not sure the results will reflect them either, but we will see on Saturday, – at least the Ardern Government will be soundly beaten.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:19am
  - greybeard
    
    I sent this email to Hosking this morning:
    ” I think you may be reading too much into these early-voting numbers: many, many people, me included, like to vote in person on the day.
    Call it a ritual, if you like. “.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:05am
    - waikatosinger
      
      Be careful. Many polling places in rural areas will be closed on election day. Don’t be caught out.
      
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      October 12, 2023 5:08pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes, I heard him read that out, but he never said it was from some ole Greybeard, hahahaha👍🏻
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:08pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Social media and the news is full of people saying vote Labour to stop National taking money off beneficiaries to subsidise rich landlords. National seems unable to to rebut the stupidity and I can only reply to a few of them.
    Combating disinformation and having answers ready seems to have been a challenge for National this election.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:18am
    - Philview
      
      How come we are bombarded with Labour attack adverts on National and Chris Luxon leading up to 6 pm News this week? Does the Government get a preferential time slot? I don’t think I have seen such personal attacks Ads on prime TV media slots before but I may have a short memory.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:36am
      - RoboRob
        
        You get what you pay for. The unions and Labour always seem to have the bigger budget and the policing of spending is laughable.
        
        If I recall correctly the unions can spend up to 375k on campaigning for Labour. Considering the billboads, full front page Herald adds, prime time TV advertising and youtube slots. Does anyone really believe the union hasn’t spent more than this?
        
        Seems to me that National and Act have bigger war chests but stick to the limits whereas Labour and its allies are happy to bend the rules.
        
        Acording to https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/494809/latest-political-polling-campaign-finances-social-media-targeting-and-more
        
        Parties can spend a max of ~1.6m on advertising INCLUDING third parties such as the Unions. RNZ shows LABOUR as having spent the most on facebook adverts with and estimated spend of 450-620k spend (face book alone). Does anyone really buy that Labour plus the unions spend is within budget?
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:41am
      - wsk12345
        
        I hardly ever have the radio on but every time I’ve got in the car this week there has been a labour attack ad within the couple of mins drive. Nats moving National super age could cost you up to $100 k, etc.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:48pm
  - Ghost
    
    The early vote is currently above early voting for 2017, don’t go on 2020, that was a whole different time, people feared a lock down so got out and voted
    
    https://vote.nz/2023-general-election/resources/voting-statistics/
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:08am
- pdm
  
  Hopefully Roy Morgan today or tomorrow will bring some sanity to polls MH.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:21am
  - Vinicius
    
    It is worth noting that in the opinion polls released with the last days before the election in 2020 both the Newshub and 1News polls were not very accurate. Both were out by circa 5% for National and Labour. The Roy Morgan poll got the closest.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_New_Zealand_general_election
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:30am
  - MCōs
    
    Why do you want yet another poll on Friday when it’ll be quickly superseded by the election on Saturday?
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:04am
    - pdm
      
      Simple Mcos.
      
      Roy Morgan usually release polls in the first 10 days of each month. This month they have not – why?
      
      Obvious answer is they are leaving release until as close as possible to election day.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:52am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        No they do not, they have been releasing polls at the end of each month, they did not release one at the end of Sept, you are getting mixed up with TPU polls which has been released between 6-10th of each month, and was released at the start of the month
        
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        October 12, 2023 9:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Whatever poll showing on play school TV1 this morning put Act at 4%
  Who are they trying to kid?
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:33am
  - Jack5
    
    The last stand by the bloc of State-owned media and State-subsidised media.
    
    Confuse, disorient, rattle, discombulate voters.
    
    The media last-minute polls con is weirdly reminiscent of the French castle lord in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:
    
    https://youtu.be/QSo0duY7-9s?si=QTMVoNvE-Fpmx-Ku
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:11am
- redeye
  
  In last nights One News poll the changes were ALL within the margin of error. 1% up, 2% down, stays the same … as you would expect with weekly polls.
  Yet you would think by listening to the speaking heads that everything had changed dramatically in the last week.
  It really has been treated like some game show. The debates are complete waste with participants encouraged to yell over each other so no real information is imparted.
  I would call myself a political tragic but this year I have also completely turned off these idiots.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:02am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Pondering the current election process, I think there’s a case for the voting period to be reduced to eight days, (to have two Saturdays). Two weeks is just too long, and I doubt it adds many votes to the tally. Election costs should also fall.

I also think that no polls should be taken or released once voting has begun.
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October 12, 2023 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There are no results until Saturday so what is the point?
  There are a few that could not make it on Saturday – so special votes.
  Two weeks is only for the lazy bastards. The voting at Glenfield has been very busy since it started.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:38am
Warren

The nastiness of this campaign has Jenna
Lynch having orgasms over Chris Hipkins Labours present Prime Minister saying Labour and the left are on the rise in the polls and National are responsible for their own demise in the polls.
But let’s face it how is Labour going to slap up a Government with their results ,
because really it would take a miracle with the numbers Labour has got, but there is a ray of light at the end of the tunnel for Labour and that is Winston Peter’s again doing a U Turn and backing Labour, but to do that they will need Chris Hipkins the current Prime Minister to resign and give Labour the chance to form the next Government.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/newshub-reid-research-poll-national-right-to-panic-as-support-plummets-new-zealand-first-surges.html
The Media are acting like twats and Journalists with the attitude of Jenna Lynch need to be put in their place because their one eyed views are toxic and New Zealander’s are sick of them.
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October 12, 2023 8:01am
- Paulus
  
  Lynch is getting worse as she is almost wetting herself – imagine what she will be like when Luxon is Prime Minister on Saturday.
  She will be ecstatically unwell and will not be able to control herself – and she gets paid big bucks for her performances
  Dreadful commentator but only one of many.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:22am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Jennacidal
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:17am
  - sharont
    
    Is it true that Jenna Lynch is married to someone involved with ACT? If so she obviously doesn’t share her husband’s political views.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Each time one of those repeaters come on the idiot box I sort of automatically switch off. Don’t know why.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:41am
- nathie
  
  Yes Jenna Lynch had her “Katie Bradford” moment last night, so proud of her own reports supposedly having an effect on National’s support.
  
  Trouble is, she is simply repeating Labour/CTU attack lines.
  
  There is no analysis from her on the tax boost scenarios being offered (which varies depending on whether people are single or double income earning families, whether they have children/how many, ECE childcare costs, superannuation etc).
  
  Why doesn’t she use her time to try out National’s tax calculator to understand what it means for a range of Kiwis and become better informed? Instead of being lazy and repeating Labour/CTU negativity and political propaganda?
  
  A quick check on the National tax calculator shows that those earning below the median wage eg $50k each for two people ($100k total) with no children will get a fortnightly saving of $67.85.
  
  That’s better than Labour’s miserly few cents off vegetables and increasing petrol taxes!
  
  https://www.nationaltaxcalculator.com/2023
  
  Why doesn’t Jenna Lynch (and other political reporters) use their well paid privileged positions to inform their viewers, instead of being lazy repeaters presenting a narrow view of Labour’s mis/disinformation campaign?
  
  No wonder they are called the “Media Party”! Or should that be “Media Activists”?
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:11am
- MCōs
  
  The ray of light for the media will be a Nat/ACT/NZF government
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:11am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Labour and the left are on the rise. Yeah, right. Guess which party’s voters give up the ghost and don’t vote when the going gets tough? It’s all well and good asking who they WOULD vote for. But when push comes to shove, they cannot be arsed to get out there as they see their team are going to take a towling.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:41am
  - I remember when
    
    In a photo I saw, Hipkins might have been lauding their chances but Megan didn’t look very happy.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:12am
    - Paulus
      
      Megan will have to pay for own pies after Saturday !
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:03am
      - RoboRob
        
        I wish. I grew up in Megan Land (CHCH Wigram electorate). There is no way in hell Labour doesn’t hold that seat. Megan could shoot someone and post the video to every houshold and she would still be re elected.
        
        The only time Labour labour has ever not won was when Jim Anderton left Labour and won it for New Labour. As long as Labour is in the name your golden 🙂
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:28pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No, on Newshub poll all you need to know is the rotten fermenting Peters who can’t be trusted and it will be 50/50 which way he goes
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:14pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Uh-oh

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/climate-crisis-will-make-europes-beer-cost-more-and-taste-worse-say-scientists
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October 12, 2023 8:01am
- I remember when
  
  Beerly News!!
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:09am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Meanwhile, the Beer Party (Austria) is polling 12% in the run up to the Vienna State Election – better than ACT or Winston.
  
  Policies include installing a beer fountain in town, a 50% tax on Radler’s (cyclists) beer, and a free barrel of beer per month to all households.
  
  A waaay better approach to rorting the Treasury than Maori wonderfulness, methinks.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:20am
- Matt Long
  
  Bud Light for everyone then!!!
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:26am
krazykiwi

I believe that most politicians are nauseatingly self-aggrandising, trainee megalomaniacs. The least successful of their number barely obfuscate these characteristics, while the most successful manage to cleverly disguise their failings as interest in the public good.

This makes voting, for me at least, a challenge akin to picking a meal from a rat buffet: The objective is to select the least disagreeable rat, to close ones eyes and scoff if down as quickly as possible, and to then spend the next three years trying to keep it down.

With that declaration made, I yesterday voted ACT for both my party and electorate vote.

I’m already feeling a bit queasy.
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October 12, 2023 8:02am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hope you’re in Epsom or Tamaki, otherwise your electorate vote is wasted.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:07am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Anyone voting ACT for a Party Vote needs to tick the box for the National Candidate in the electorate. An overhang for National might just be the circuit breaker to keep Winston out of Government.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Good guess, that is what this household is doing.
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:44am
  - cmm
    
    It is never wasted.
    If everyone “votes strategically” then Act will fail to improve their numbers.
    When you are voting for a minor party you are not voting for this election, but for future elections.
    With time their numbers could build as more people see others voting for them and are thus more inclined to vote the way they want to.
    
    In other words, Act might be at 10% this year, then 20% next election, then… but if Act supporters just keep gifting their votes to National then this will not happen.
    
    I’m stuffed if I am ever going to give a vote to a National candidate that feels they deserves the Act share of the vote too. If you want my vote then bloody earn it by being the best candidate for the job.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:37am
    - Warren
      
      cmm you are talking bullshit you have never been going to vote National because all you have done for the last six month’s is call Chris Luxon names and run him down , you have no credibility when it comes to Chris Luxon as the message you continually send is he is not fit to lead National.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:11am
      - cmm
        
        What the hell as Luxton got to do with it? We’re not talking about party vote.
        
        You know absolutely SFA about how I vote.
        
        For the record, in 2005, 2008, 2011, 2014, and 2017 I voted for the National candidate but Act got my party vote.
        
        I voted that way somewhat based on the “wasted vote” theory, but also based on just choosing the best candidate.
        
        For 2005, 2008 and 2011 I lived in Selwyn and voted for the National candidate there. In 2013 I moved to Ilam and in 2014 and 2017 Gerry Brownlee got my electoral vote. He seemed to be doing a reasonable job and deserved it.
        
        Then in 2020 he seemed to have lost interest and I voted for the Act candidate. Since then I have completely dropped the idea of the “wasted vote” and I will vote for who appears to be the best candidate – regardless of the party they are in.
        
        I would even vote for the TOP guy Raif Manji or the Labour candidate if I thought they were the best candidate.
        
        Remember that your electoral vote does not really influence who is in power (except for parties below 5% like TOP), so you should rather vote for the individual rather than what colour shirt they are wearing.
        
        I am going to be voting for National’s Hamish Campbell. Not because of the party he is in, not because I am voting “strategically” but because he seems to be the best of the bunch.
        
        There is no Act candidate standing in Ilam this year. If there was then I’d vote for him/her if (s)he was the best.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:24am
    - RoboRob
      
      You are 100% right. It amazes me that so few people really understand MMP. Your party vote is almost entirely the only important vote, excluding overhangs. That means you can pretty much do whatever you want with your electorate vote.
      
      My 18yr old son is probably voting for TOP in our electorate. I dont care because his ‘real’ vote is either Act or National.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:11am
      - sparkhole
        
        Could be good if your in Ilam, I (not Ilam, rural) voted TOP in the list and National in the electorate.
        
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        October 12, 2023 10:14am
      - RoboRob
        
        @sparkhole Did you realise that TOP are a left wing party and you gave your important vote to them?
        
        No judgement, just wondering if you made a mistake.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:43am
  - lifesgood
    
    Not Tamaki, please. The vicious campaign against an excellent electorate MP has been bewildering.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:45am
    - Paulus
      
      In Tamaki it is the Act people who are displaying a a vicious and puerile view.
      Not doing Act overall any real good either.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:06am
      - Damocles11
        
        What is vicious and puerile about trying to win a seat? Swarbrick took a seat off Labour, Manji wants to win the Ilam seat. This is just one everlasting whinge about ‘poor’ Simon O’Connor and how it’s so terrible that a candidate from another party wants to take his seat. If he is the best candidate then he will win in a landslide, so what is the problem?
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:41pm
      - sharont
        
        Seymour didn’t endear himself by putting an ACT candidate against O’Connor simply because O’Connor is prolife. Seymour lost my party vote over that. I’m two ticks National on Saturday.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:53pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    @Captain Mainwaring @ 8:07AM
    
    Captain: Yes, krazykiwi’s Electorate vote was wasted, but he did the right and rational thing, for himself.
    
    He voted in an electorate that, on Saturday night, will be declared “Labour — HOLD”. The candidate who will comfortably finish in second place is the Green Party candidate. The National Party and ACT NZ candidates will fill the next two places.
    
    The ACT NZ candidate appears to be well regarded in certain right-wing circles. So, as an ACT NZ supporter, why wouldn’t krazykiwi give his Electorate vote to that person? Looking at it from his point of view, he really couldn’t have done anything else.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:08am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It’s now wasted in Tamaki, the support Act has lost will also see Vsn Weldon lose support in Tamaki
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:16pm
- Gravelroad
  
  In the farming/rural communities/primary production export sectors, we are just voting for survival.
  Simple as that.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:11am
- Matt Long
  
  Yesterday I voted Winston First for my party vote. Winston prevented plans to charge farmers for natural water resources and he wasn’t complicit with the mandates or those who called my friends in the freedom protests scum.
  If he props up Labour feel free to heap condemnation on me, I’ll be planning on how to make him regret it.
  I didn’t place an electorate vote for the first time in my adult life. There was no one there who deserves it and Dr Shane will be in without my vote.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:12am
  - Warren
    
    Ha ha what a surprise a leopard never changes its spots.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:18am
  - NothingLeft
    
    The loud but lazy Winston who has made a career of fleecing NZ to pump his Narcissism, and who created and supported the worst govt in NZ history 2017-20 hooks another sucker with a short memory.
    
    Don’t judge politicians by what they say, but rather by what they do. Winston has never delivered – for example his 2017 ‘bottom line’ of referendum on race based seats that he could have made happen, but didn’t because he’s a mendacious old […].
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:26am
  - graham
    
    Both Labour and NZ First have been extremely clear that they won’t work with each other.
    
    Yeah I know, call me naive. “How do you know when a politician’s lying? His lips are moving.” But is very difficult to see how they could end up working together without some VERY serious reputational damage.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:39am
    - I remember when
      
      What, you mean people will not believe what they say??
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:01am
    - sparkhole
      
      Hipkins will say (and may even believe) that he is doing what is best for the country. You can’t really trust anything these people say.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:19am
  - RoboRob
    
    Hi Matt
    
    1) How do you plan to make him regret it?
    
    2) Shouldn’t you be making him regret it from the last time he screwed you over (Like most here are doing)?
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:46am
    - Damocles11
      
      Winston can’t believe his luck that there are so many suckers & dupes around. He’ll be grinning from ear to ear and will no doubt collapse the government some time early in 2026 so that NZ First don’t cop the invariable ‘small party in government’ backlash.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:45pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    You’re in Shane Reti’s electorate and didn’t vote for him?
    
    Say what?
    
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    October 12, 2023 6:44pm
    - Matt Long
      
      Shane was there in parliament and didn’t meet with his constituents, didn’t speak up when they were labelled a river of filth, failed in his duty as as a representative of the people of Whangarei.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:12pm
- virtualmark
  
  See krazy, I knew there’d be something we agreed on:
  
  “I believe that most politicians are nauseatingly self-aggrandising, trainee megalomaniacs. The least successful of their number barely obfuscate these characteristics, while the most successful manage to cleverly disguise their failings as interest in the public good. This makes voting, for me at least, a challenge akin to picking a meal from a rat buffet”
  
  And believe me, I’ve seen a lot of them up close, and I’ve become very jaded about anyone who has ambitions to be a politician.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:52am
artemisia

Something I really don’t understand. Universities have lots of intelligent people don’t they? So why on earth did so many get themselves in such serious financial strife?

“Last year, six of the eight universities made deficits totalling about $99 million, one of the worst results on record. Universities were blaming this year’s deficits on factors including lower than expected domestic enrolments and higher costs.”

All good though due to an improved forecast – only 5 unis in strife now. //

Perhaps intelligent, not smart so much. Although if some folk at the unis expected a hosepipe of new taxpayer cash based on previous experience maybe they were not as intelligent as they ranked themselves.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/10/five-new-zealand-universities-forecasting-financial-deficits-yet-again.html
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October 12, 2023 8:03am
- Paulus
  
  Perhaps the Universities are teaching the wrong things and attracting the wrong people !
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:24am
  - artemisia
    
    One thing New Zealand does very well is grow and process flora and fauna. Our universities could teach a decent chunk of the world, if they set their minds to it. Might need to funnel more funding into research. I wonder if some could be channelled from ‘less productive’ areas. Being charitable here.
    
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    October 12, 2023 3:26pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Universities have lots of intelligent people don’t they?
  
  Spend long enough at a university and you’d soon realise that many of the staff have a very narrow focus on life and the world around them.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:38am
  - I remember when
    
    They only talk to people with a similar world view.
    It leads to the idea that everyone has the same beliefs that you do.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Maggy – what you say applies in Wellington to the main Public Servants and do not really care who are the Government Party – narrow and blinkered in whatever.
    Am aware from a senior lady that they will continue to do what they are doing, despite any Government change – Minister is irrelevant.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:10am
  - Bridgenag
    
    one of the blokes at bowls told me proudly his daughter went to Singapore to a convention [or something] to learn how to make Auckland green…….ffs what a junket
    
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    October 12, 2023 7:39pm
- Matt Long
  
  They have people skilled in narrow areas of academics, but they lack real world experience and are cacooned state nipple suckers.
  The vote left, believe left, and can’t understand why Jacinda’s wellbeing hasn’t delivered them utopia yet.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:05am
  - Damocles11
    
    Yet you vote for the party that put Jacinda on power. So you are from the Left as well, IMO.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:48pm
- Waipuk
  
  Useful idiots.
  
  See the 5 principles of stupidity.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:07am
- Stu2
  
  Simple
  
  The foreign student cash cow has dried up, and their budgets and staffing depended on them. We were late reopening the borders so some potential overseas students will have gone somewhere else.
  
  And to compound it domestic student numbers are down, which is not what they expected.
  
  Their financial projections were doubly wrong.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:21am
  - artemisia
    
    Talking 10s of millions – that surely should have people there every single day scrutinising decisions, impacts, projections, risks and costs. Then making decisions on how to live within budget. They didn’t obviously.
    
    Feet to the fire please.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:47am
- Reg Perrin
  
  My experience of working at a university is that most of the administration staff have not worked anywhere else other than different universities so don’t understand what good is in regards to systems and process. Change is very hard to instigate due to silos and empires between depts and between academic and admin. People seem to have inflated egos because they work at a Uni with little understanding how things are done outside of their University world
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:33am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  They don’t blame it on being overstaffed with people that lecture on rubbish subjects. I mean, you can paint your hair red, put a screw in your lip, wear a kaftan and roman sandals and major in Woman’s Studies.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:43am
  - artemisia
    
    And that’s just the chaps.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:41am
- virtualmark
  
  I’m no fan of life-long academics, but I do think a lot of the reason many NZ universities are in financial strife is because of the collapse in international student numbers.
  
  But I’d still favour the Government using their funding levers to rationalise and cull a number of university courses.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:54am
  - NothingLeft
    
    As soon as possible the politics of University academics should be re-normalized to mirror that of wider community. Hire only center and right-wing academics until balance is restored. Fire all existing academic admin leadership and replace with people representing broad spectrum of views.
    
    Anything with name “Studies” in the title should go. Just a cover for Sophistry of a Postmodern/ Marxist bent pushing pathological victimology of various ilks. All detrimental to the country.
    
    Sociology and much of far left dominated Humanities academic discourse being funneled uncritically into naïve and impressionable young brains is destructive to interests of the country too. Defund.
    
    All other disciplines need to have balance restored. Removing the dominant extremist left wing dogmas from the useful informational core.
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:53pm
Vinicius

Which electorate seats on the election night do you think are worth watching?
My list:

– The 3 ‘Centrals’ (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch) Chch Central is my electorate and could be a chance for the Nats.
– Ilam: the Nats should win this one easily.
– Hutt South: Bishop to bowl over Ginny Anderson?
– Wairarapa – Currently held by McAnulty (LAB). Can the Nats win this? 2020 majority 6545.
– Tamaki (Go Brooke van Velden).
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October 12, 2023 8:05am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Maori seats, Labour get a kick in the guts. Watch Mahuta’s seat!! She is MIA and the young TPM lass is giving her a run for her money.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:33am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Didn’t Mahuta put out some foreign relations press release from Spain a week or two back? If so not showing much interest in election.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:07am
  - Paulus
    
    Thought I read that Mahuta was in Spain on holiday – can anybody confirm this or is she rushing back now after Gaza ?
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:12am
    - Jethrod
      
      Last seen doing a Che Guevara in the trenches for Hamas.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:50am
- emmess
  
  Maori seats, the last thing we want is an overhang
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:36am
  - MCōs
    
    Port Waikato will produce an overhang of sorts.
    Peculiar arrangement that is.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:13pm
- Centrist
  
  Completely disagree about the latter. I really hope Simon O’Connor holds on. Anyway, the Māori seats are the big ones to watch. I don’t like Labour, but I hope they win them all.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:52am
  - lifesgood
    
    With you there re O’Connor, Centrist. The campaign against him is malicious and deliberately targeted at the young women who think any white male should move aside for a young attractive woman. It has certainly made me vow that I will never vote ACT
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:54am
    - What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
      
      I’m still undecided. 3 weeks ago I would have gone Act without much reservation, but after the antics of the last few weeks it seems they really don’t want my vote, so I may have to oblige them.
      
      NZF is hoovering up all the votes that National and Act seem happy to do without, but Luigi and Jonesy simply aren’t remotely trustworthy.
      I want to sit this one out, but I know I can’t…
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:09pm
- RoboRob
  
  Ilam – Dont rule out TOP. Could be very interesting.
  
  Also if NAT and Top get the sort of percentages they are polling (28% and 24%) if I recall, thats a trouncing for the hopeless Labour candidate (16%).
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:15am
  - Vinicius
    
    Ilam Curia-Taxpayers Union poll end of August
    Campbell (NAT) 33%
    Pallett (LAB) 15%
    Manji (TOP) 14%
    Undecided 18%
    
    In the party vote the poll had Nats 39%, Labour 21%. In 2020 Labour got 44% of the party vote and the Nats 29%. So this could be a blood bath.
    
    https://assets.nationbuilder.com/taxpayers/pages/2492/attachments/original/1693275215/Ilam_Poll_Results_Aug_2023.pdf?1693275215
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:55am
    - RoboRob
      
      Great news, thanks for the poll results.
      
      Sarah pallet would have to be one of the most useless MPs one could ever have. Her campaign this time revolves around her service to the community and her two examples are attending a debate on a pedestrian crossing outside a school and pushing for better cell reception in burwood forest.
      
      For people non in CHCH, burwood forest is on the opposite side of town to Ilam.
      
      The school crossing was a local council board decision.
      
      Her electorate office, which I pass almost every day, is almost never open. 15% support for Sarah is generous, to say the least.
      
      p.s. She door knocked me once when she was standing as a green for environment canterbury. Seemed nice.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:53am
- MCōs
  
  The Māori seats are probably the ones to watch. They are all contests between Labour & the Māori Party and if the latter doesn’t win one seat that’s them gone, although it seems Rawiri Waititi is comfortably ahead in Waiariki
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:30am
- Vinicius
  
  Napier is another interesting one. A poll done end of August shows National is very competitive. Majority in 2o2o was 5856. Stuart Nash’s old seat.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:38am
- Frank the tank
  
  Inner West of Auckland should be interesting- Te Atatu, Mt Albert and Mt Roskill. Panmure and Takanini could also surprise.
  
  Palmerston North and New Plymouth will also be interesting.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:45am
- virtualmark
  
  In purely electorate seat terms …
  
  Question 1: Do the rural seats all return in National?
  
  Question 2: What happens in West Auckland? Because that’s the biggest swing bloc of seats and typically points to the national outcome.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Ohariu, Napier, possibly PN and the Banks Peninsula seat that everyone says is safe is only the second time the boundary has been there, so very rich people living in those areas like in Selwyn, not so sure that is safe, and with ACT losing a lot of support I suggest Tamiki will stay blue
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:24pm
Geoff1

In the wake of Hamas’ brutal surprise attack against Israel, 34 Harvard student organizations recently signed a joint statement (below) blaming Israel for the attack and expressing support for Palestine.
Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine
We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence.
The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden.
Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians.
This statement was co-authored by a coalition of Palestine solidarity groups at Harvard. For student safety, the names of all original signing organizations have been concealed at this time.
This is the same university where Jacinda Ardern is resident who said
“I am incredibly humbled to be joining Harvard University as a fellow—not only will it give me the opportunity to share my experience with others, it will give me a chance to learn,”
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October 12, 2023 8:05am
- Ehlana
  
  Whenever I look at a map, Gaza has a land border with Egypt. And a sea coast. I get you can blockade a place from the water, but why, if Israel is so difficult to deal with, haven’t the Gaza authorities developed links with Egypt? Surely that would undermine the Israeli blockade quite effectively?
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:24am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Over 30000 Gazans are free (or were…) to work in Israel and were doing well.
    That was going to be expanded up but clearly the people of Gaza prefer murdering Jews than peace and prosperity.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:29am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Gaza gdp per capita is about $1500, and minimum wage for Gazan in Israel is 10x that. Loss of those earnings will hit Gaza hard
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:21am
    - Paulus
      
      As the border is closed to Israel presumably they are not getting work or paid !
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:14am
  - mandk
    
    ” … why … haven’t the Gaza authorities developed links with Egypt?”
    
    Simple, the Egyptians aren’t stupid. They have troubles enough of their own. They know Hamas are a vicious, hate-filled rabble who are a front for Iran, and who would do their best to reduce Egypt to ruins.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:31am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    The Arab countries want NOTHING to do with the Palestinians.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:34am
    - krazykiwi
      
      mmm, not quite. Hamas’ leadership all live if 5-star luxury in Qatar as described here: The Qatari elephant in the room.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:39am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Also, Jordan ARE Palestinians.
      What the Arab countries want is Gaza and the West Bank to be a thorn in the side of Israel and to destroy them from within.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:26am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep, Plenty of tunnels between Gaza and Egypt.
    The land blockade is relatively easy, However the financial Support for Hama’s is a hard nut too Crack.
    Qatar, Iran and Turkey fully support Hama’s.
    
    There will be further information from Iran in the weeks to come on there involvement, I’m sure.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:03am
    - G152
      
      Ground penetrating radar such as archaeologists use will find those tunnels and measures can then be taken
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:26am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Rafah crossing information. Just one fact amongst many listed:
    
    UN & other stats shows 50,000 Gazans left via Rafah Jan to Apr 2023 or 150,000 annualized =7.5% of population! 145,000 left in 2022. It’s not a mere trickle, or a few days a year, or impossible to leave or Egypt allows few to enter. That’s all lies.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:06am
  - Cassandra
    
    It was in the hands of Gazans. Accept Israel and prosper. Instead Gaza (well, Hamas) chose to attack. Israel is fighting for survival. Peace will never come unless the Arabs accept that Israel can exist. Turn the clock back to Oslo.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Egypt is trying to block Gazans fleeing across their border.
    
    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/bombardments-hit-area-gaza-sinai-border-crossing-gaza-officials-2023-10-10/
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:16am
  - virtualmark
    
    Because Hamas is basically the Palestinian arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Egyptian government/military hate the Muslim Brotherhood.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:57am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Even Hamas name translated is Islamic Resistance Movement.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Etymology
      
      The Palestinians such as they are have been Arabised and folded into a terrorist death cult.
      
      If you’re gonna dine with the Devil, you better take a long spoon.
      
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      October 12, 2023 12:35pm
- artemisia
  
  Some CEOs are looking to add signatories to hiring blacklists. Some students connected to the above letter are now running as fast as their little legs will take them. There will already be lists out there, not that students will ever know if they are featured.
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-hamas-ceos-students/index.html
  
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  October 12, 2023 7:08pm
All_on_Red

Sadly, it looks like the mass slaughter of infants by Hamas did occur.
Multiple sources now verifying it.
https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/10/11/follow-up-on-the-massacre-at-kibbutz-kfar-aza-were-40-babies-killed-there-n583976
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October 12, 2023 8:14am
- Paulus
  
  I would flatten every building over 3 floors in Gaza City.
  Am sadly sorry for those women and children left which from photos appear to be many able bodied men who undisputedly support Hamas – whose leaders are not even in Gaza but in Saudi Arabia.
  Assume Russia and Iran, plus a few others are behind this attack as they appear to be well supplied with arms, and such as rockets.
  Sad, but keeps pressure off other world pressure points for the media.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:31am
- mandk
  
  And, sadly, this is no surprise.
  
  Most Gaza residents, and Hamas operatives in particular, would personally wish to kill every single Jew.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Some beheaded by the disgusting animals.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:04am
  - mawm
    
    Some “necklaced” with burning tyres.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:19am
- DimChappie
  
  Photographs or it did not happen: from the linked story: “If a story is going to be used in questions like this (below) it should be confirmed. ”
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:06am
  - Che Guava
    
    I agree. Purporting to make it so just by saying it’s so is insufficient. If there’s evidence, then so be it, but let’s see it.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:11am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Guava your dear friend Ben Shapiro has the receipts. Head on over to his channel to view the evidentiary subhuman gore. Not sure if he has the receipts on the baby killers but listening to the audio it appeared he had the sickos beheading civilians with shovels on video. I didn’t go watch the video. I don’t need to watch the gore.
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:53pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Is it really necessary to see photos of decapitated children? Those of the religion of peace would be celebrating all over the World if they saw those photos.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:34am
    - Che Guava
      
      “Just trust me, bro” isn’t enough when this is being used as a pretext for wiping out the alleged perpetrators and anyone who happens to be in the vicinity.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:53am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I know lack of photos could mean warfare propaganda, but I say not in this case.
        The whole thing is disgusting but Hamas are disgusting people. Death to Israel is all they know. I say holding back photos is respect. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:33pm
      - What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
        
        If you know anyone who’s pro Hamas, they’ll be able to show you.
        https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5yIkipW6Org
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        What’s the Frequency, Kenneth?
        
        Quite insane really, and just across the ditch.
        
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        October 12, 2023 5:00pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Plenty of evidence that there were atrocities including beheading. Before you deny it – you’ve got to be some sort of sick weirdo to do so – do some searching.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:51am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Dim, Your nom de plume is apt
    NO ONE is going to allow pictures of dead babies to be seen purely out of respect for their family and common decency
    There are several eye witness accounts and there have been photos of blood soaked and saturated childrens beds
    Your doubt shows where your sympathies lie
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:10pm
    - DimChappie
      
      I will not believe it without some evidence better than an Israeli soldier’s account. You who are so quick to accept this fantasy sicken me.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:48pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Dim
        You are 100% correct. We all know that if there was evidence for this atrocity, we’d have seen it. It follows logically and based on common sense that there can’t be any such evidence. The internet is awash with all manner of violent content and disturbing images. To claim that “decency” is the reason we can’t be shown evidence is simply not credible. In fact, in all such cases, the more horrific the better from a war propaganda perspective.
        
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        October 12, 2023 2:35pm
- Che Guava
  
  While if true, it is despicable of course, but the question is, is it true?
  
  “Multiple sources” seems to amount to just the IDF and other Israeli personnel. Very big claims require very big evidence, and I’m yet to see anything objective other than the accounts of people who are clearly self-interested.
  
  Everyone has a camera on them nowadays, but there doesn’t appear to be any verifiable evidence that this has occurred. It has the same ring as the multiple claims against Putin in Ukraine that were similarly unevidenced and that were dropped when they became unsustainable but had served their purpose, or when Saddam’s regime was accused of “throwing babies out of incubators onto the floor” around the time of the first Gulf War, or when Germans in WW1 were accused of “bayonetting babies” and “raping nuns in churches” and so on.
  
  The most astute quote in that article is “I saw people arguing back and forth about this all day long. One guy described the story as an example of “atrocity propaganda” designed to emotionally manipulate people into support for war.”
  
  Whether true or not, this is undoubtedly “atrocity propaganda.” Who benefits from this story, regardless of its veracity? Israel, because by emotionally manipulating people into outrage and manufacturing consent for what they already intend to do, they then have licence to go into Gaza and commit their own unspeakable atrocities and justify them on the basis that the Palestinians “decapitated babies.” In other words, policy dictates the narrative, the narrative doesn’t dictate policy.
  
  Steering and controlling the narrative is vital and information warfare is always as essential to a war effort as guns and tanks. Directing public opinion is crucial. We’ve seen this play out so many times now that it’s a surprise that so many people still all for it.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:21am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Che, the first groups of journalists have been taken into one of the Kibbutz attacked. There is coverage of it. They say there is a terrible stench of the dead and dried blood. Dozens of body bags are being moved. There are a couple of dead terrorists as well.
    There are still terrorists at large in some of the places, so no one is allowed in until they have been dealt to.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:43am
    - Che Guava
      
      Are there any decapitated babies, though? That is the claim being made.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:52am
      - mawm
        
        Do you think any news media will publish those? The same media organisations who have pushed the anti Israel message for many years will do there best to keep the true extent of this horror from the public?
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:25am
      - Che Guava
        
        mawm
        So, there aren’t any photos to publish? You’d think that the Times of Israel or similarly aligned outlet would be sufficiently pro-Israel that they’d publish them in a heart beat. We have social media, so anyone can publish these photos if they exist. And given the obvious content control that the ADL exercises over X/Twitter and Facebook, don’t tell me that they’d be removed if they were published.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:39am
      - Cassandra
        
        Yes, there are decapitated babies. Reputable people have stated this. You will not get photos, I hope. Weird to demand them.
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:53am
      - Che Guava
        
        “Yes, there are decapitated babies. Reputable people have stated this. You will not get photos, I hope. Weird to demand them.”
        
        Supposedly reputable people can state anything they like, but obviously some of these people will have bias. Call me “weird” if you wish, but it’s actually perfectly rational to ask someone to back up a claim they are making, particularly one as egregious as this one.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:19pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Struggling to hide your anti semitism there eh Che
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:11pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Struggling to hide your anti semitism there eh Che”
        
        Asking for evidence to support a very serious claim being made is anti-semitic, is it? That’s either an incredibly stupid or an intellectually dishonest equation.
        
        I think we all understand how accusations of “racism” are cynically used as a bad faith device to shut down valid criticism of brown people, yet most of you seem to unironically accept that any criticism or questioning of Jews or Israel is ipso facto “anti-semitic.” What a bizarre inconsistency.
        
        Call me whatever you like if it avoids answering the questions or responding to the points I make, but it is increasingly clear how these tactics are employed and what they are intended to achieve, which is curtailing certain lines of thought or enquiry.
        
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        October 12, 2023 1:55pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Che,
    This is where we see the importance of a fair, unbiased media.
    Everything they have reported might be true, but their reputations now precede them.
    Therefore there will be some people who will require proof.
    It may appear insensitive, but outrage and retalliation must be based on facts.
    As you say, we have been deceived before by the media and their owners. Most of the content of this site is from people who are aware of the power of the media.
    
    An immediate ceasefire from both sides to enable the innocent to get to safety should be the priority.
    
    Hopefully a very very long ceasefire .
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:50am
    - Che Guava
      
      As a general rule, the things people don’t want you to question and to accept as given without any or much evidence, and the claims that can’t be challenged, are either wrong or they are lies. If they weren’t, then nobody would mind if you questioned them. This stands to reason.
      
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      October 12, 2023 12:22pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    You have a point I guess. But I’d rather not have to look at photos or videos personally. Videos of islamists ritualistically beheading helpless men and women with knives over last 20 years are all too common for me to have any doubt as to their likelihood in this instance.
    
    At the end of the day butchering captive babies and children is butchering captive babies and children – fucking evil anyway you look at it whatever method is used. Same for the women they captured and clearly raped (video of one poor captive being transferred from a car boot with bum pants soaked in blood). Fucking evil.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:08pm
cas

Apologies if someone has posted on this already but I was reading an older Guardian Wokely last night and there was an article in it bout the Tony Blair Institute which has more than 800 staff and operates in 40 countries.

I see a new full time job for Jacinda. Former Finland PM Sanna Marin has joined saying she believed she could serve voters in Finland well and maybe even better in the new assignment.

It’s nicknamed the McKinsey for world leaders. Surely there’s a place in it somewhere for Jacinda.
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October 12, 2023 8:15am
- Jack5
  
  … McKinsey for world ~~leaders~~ looters.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  No power. She craves power!
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:05am
- Cassandra
  
  They’ll need a cleaner.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:07am
  - Paulus
    
    You need power for a good suction cleaner – Ardern not got yet – she remains toxic, which Marin does not.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:18am
- sparkhole
  
  I doubt it, it looks far too hands on and results orientated for Jacinda. A better fit would be something like weather reporter for the moon or fish and chip van marketing consultant.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:09am
- imalwaysright
  
  Cas,
  Jacinda used to work for Blair in public relations at the same time he was allegedly having issues with the British public realising how bad were the alleged muslim alleged rape gangs in the north of England.
  
  Not sure what her alleged job was.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not sure what her alleged job was.
    
    “In 2005 she went to London and worked in the Government Cabinet Office of British Prime Minister Tony Blair as an Assistant Director for Better Regulation Executive in the Department for Business and Enterprise, and on a review of Policing in England and Wales. ”
    
    https://www.councilwomenworldleaders.org/jacinda-ardern.html
    
    Perhaps she wrote a report… or had to look up a figure or two.
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:51am
    - imalwaysright
      
      I don’t understand why the murderer wrote this is for Rotherham on his gun.
      
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      October 12, 2023 2:24pm
  - Paulus
    
    Ardern never met Blair by her admission.
    Helen Clark arranged via UK Labour Party.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:19am
- BananaLlama
  
  Sanna Marin who was never elected as PM was sacked by the Finnish voters as soon as they were asked for their consent to be governed. Now she seems to think she can serve the public better by working for Tony Blair.
  Worse than Bobrikov himself.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:23am
Vinicius

Thumbs down to the guy on NewstalkZB reading the sports news this morning who calls the terrorists attacking Israel ‘Hamas Resistance Fighters’. The BBC and CNN are similar and call them militants.

They need to read the Hamas charter.
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October 12, 2023 8:16am
Maggie Pie

Looks like I’m not the only one who doesn’t have a cloo about MMP.
Even National’s leader admitted he doesn’t understand it either!
When he appeared on ZB with the Hosk earlier, Chris admitted he had never heard of the ‘dead person rule’

LOL!!
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October 12, 2023 8:21am
- Ehlana
  
  I don’t think most people have Maggie. It’s not that often a candidate dies so close to the election.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:25am
  - Don Beckett
    
    @Maggie. Why does it bother you? You aren’t voting anyway – so you say. Silly girl. 😆
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:00am
    - Damocles11
      
      She’s far, far too busy to vote. She’s busy with a busy life. A busy life of posting on Kiwiblog. How on earth would she find the time to help us get shot of Labour?
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dead person Rule. Democrats have been doing this for decades.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:09am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hipkins didn’t know either, and wants it changed smartly
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:28pm
imalwaysright

Anyone aware of the alleged boy on boy alleged sexual assault at allegedly Upper Hutt College earlier in the week?

It was allegedly videoed and uploaded.

Haven’t seen anything in the alleged media
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October 12, 2023 8:27am
oldpark

A group of us were contemplating which Parties we would or could vote for.
We started with the Three probably described as Rip Tip and Bobtail Parties .

Labour with their control freak lies and promises over the last Six years. What stands out beside the 100,000 Thousand Kiwi build houses that never happened .Was the denial of NZs coming home to NZ during Covid Caper and being prevented by Ardern/Hipkins Regime .Making their prized Passports worthless .
Maori Party who don’t believe in Prisons or Democracy .How would that work out.
Commie Green Party with their woman leader putting the boot into Israel Defence Force for protecting Israel Citizens after the murderous pack Rapes and massacre of innocent elderly and mothers of wee Babies by Hamas .Her words that force should also be called Terrorists.
What a terrible trio . to even contemplate them being the next NZ Government on 14 October 2023.Would be nothing on North Korea,
Back to National/ACT /NZF.
Seems they get the decision .As after Six long years Labour/Green /Maori Parties have made NZ completely divided in many many ways .

A vote for either National Act or NZ First will help make NZ a “Proud Democratic Nation” once again.
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October 12, 2023 8:29am
- NothingLeft
  
  A vote for NZF helps no-one except the self-serving Winston Peters. He’s political cancer.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:16am
  - greybeard
    
    If Peters wasn’t there nobody would vote for NZF.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:35am
Maggie Pie

And here’s another ‘new low’….

Like the unfunny comedian Guy Williams, the equally pathetic Paddy Gower also manages to plum new depths!

https://twitter.com/patrickgowernz/status/1712006945455153287
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October 12, 2023 8:35am
- BananaLlama
  
  Another journalist clown that thinks he was elected. If NZ Voters want an inquiry into the amount of taxpayer funded bull that Paddy Gower spouts then too bad for him. If he doesn’t like it then he can go run for government instead.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not a fan of Gower but that is funny.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:12am
- imalwaysright
  
  Its funny how there are no comedians left in New Zealand. ( Maybe that should read- all comedians are Left in New Zealand ).
  
  We have had no political satire or decent comedy in this country for the past 6 years at least.
  All we seem to get are women who hate men and say f***k a lot, and men who hate themselves and say sorry a lot.
  
  Good hard hitting comedy is essential to having a healthy balanced view of society .
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner’s came up thru the 60’s and loved a pommie comedy duo called ‘Pete & Dud’. She reckons we’re never likely to see anything like them again, ever!
    And OMG this was one her faves! She sent thru the YT link 😀 😀 😀
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a_UKKvUcoE
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:26pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Yes, Peter Cook & Dudley Moore. Classic.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:07pm
nathie

“From the river to the sea Palestine will be free” is chanted by the Greens at anti-Israel protests in NZ. Some in Labour support this slogan/song as well.

“From the river to the sea Palestine will be free” originates from the PLO and was adopted by Hamas. It is also a popular position among Palestinians in general and some of the Western political Left including the Labour Party of NZ (as well as the Greens).

However the slogan refers to the ethnic cleansing of Israelis to establish a Palestinian state on the current territory of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

Now I don’t support the ethnic cleansing of both Israelis or Palestinians or anyone for that matter. Ethnic cleansing is abhorrent.

But it seems the Greens then does then support ethnic cleansing (and the likes of Marama Davidson and Golriz Ghahraman are on social media endorsing this slogan).

Why are they not being held to account?

Why isn’t the media asking these questions of them?

Imagine if National/ACT supported the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians? There would be endless outrage until the MP’s resigned (and even then the outrage would still continue smearing people associated with their parties etc).

But when it comes to the Greens (and even some in Labour) there is media silence.

Another thing, Golriz Ghahraman’s position aligns with that of her homeland i.e. the Iranian government. What an inconvenient truth!

In other news Vienna is to ban pro-Palestinian protests. Perhaps this is a position the rest of the Western world including NZ should adopt.

(Remember these protestors are promoting ethnic cleansing. It’s not acceptable. Not even in NZ).

https://www.reuters.com/world/from-river-sea-prompts-vienna-ban-pro-palestinian-protest-2023-10-11/
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October 12, 2023 8:35am
bennerg

Four and a half years ago a gunman crossed our borders and shot 50 people dead for their political and religious beliefs. Our then Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern made hay out of this, and condemed the action of the gunman, calling him a terrorist. No criticism of the victim’s religion or politics.

She continues to hold her “Christchurch Call” on the world stage to this day.

Now the same type of event, only bigger, and this time it is Hamas, crossing a border into Israel, and killing over 1,000 innocent people from many countries for their political and religious beliefs, and what do we hear? Crickets.

We are so blessed she has at least left the local stage.
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October 12, 2023 8:36am
- I remember when
  
  What on earth was the hands crossed over the body all about on her ‘call to arms’ re the election.
  In fact, the whole effort seemed to lack an real sense of support for Labour’s cause.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:28am
Than

There was a CNN article today about a joint statement released by a coalition of Harvard student groups blaming Israel for recent events. Notably, the opinion was released anonymously.

There is a saying about opinions – that everyone has one and what they’re full of.

An opinion only has meaning based on the respect you have for the person or organization giving that opinion. Therefore an opinion given anonymously is, almost definitionally, meaningless. If these people don’t have the guts to come forward with who they are, they should be ignored. To phrase it another way – put up or shut up.
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October 12, 2023 8:37am
- Che Guava
  
  “An opinion only has meaning based on the respect you have for the person or organization giving that opinion.”
  
  That would be an argument from authority, so a logical fallacy. I would have thought that an opinion has meaning based on its alignment with reality and with logic, the quality of its analysis, and whether or not the claims it makes are verifiable. If an opinion has all of these attributes, then you can respect the opinion-giver. That would be how they gain respect to begin with. You’ve got it ass-backwards.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:33am
  - Than
    
    Isn’t an opinion by nature an argument from authority? No human being can know everything. Sometimes it makes sense to accept what other people say, if they know more than we do on a particular subject. If a doctor gives me a diagnosis and recommended treatment, I’d be an idiot to reject it because it’s an “argument from authority”.
    
    But this is a sidetrack to my main point, which was that the statement was made anonymously. So they aren’t even claiming to be an authority. They aren’t even willing to accept ownership of the statement. Which in my view means we can treat it with contempt and ignore it.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:11am
    - Che Guava
      
      “Isn’t an opinion by nature an argument from authority?”
      
      No. An opinion, assuming it’s a valid opinion, must be coherent and make a case for some proposition. It shouldn’t matter who is stating the opinion (although this may add weight, but not necessarily), only that the opinion is convincing on its merits. By contrast, a report (in theory at least) doesn’t make any argument, it just describes a set of facts.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:33am
      - imalwaysright
        
        An opinion can be based on an emotional response. Like freedom of speech it doesn’t have to be factually correct or logical . I think that is what they meant about respecting the source of the opinion .
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:13pm
    - miltonF
      
      “If a doctor gives me a diagnosis and recommended treatment, I’d be an idiot to reject it because it’s an “argument from authority”. This is true. It is also true that you should not accept any treatment simply because it is an argument from authority. EG thalidomide, covid vaccines.
      
      Che’s argument is not that you should reject all arguments from authority, but that you should not blindly accept all arguments from authority. Claims require one of two things. Logical deduction or evidence.
      
      In other words, something is only true if it is actually true. If people say something is true (authority fallacy) or believe something is true (consensus fallacy), that does not make it true.
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:07pm
emmess

The Labour party’s foreign policy dilemma
https://youtu.be/a0Pw_TxBe7w?si=sjZeH_oZ_JQs4O8P
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October 12, 2023 8:38am
Jack5

An ASB Bank newsletter today reporting on IMF measure of countries’ GDP growth talks of “Aotearoa New Zealand”.

A check shows the IMF still talks of “New Zealand”.

But the ASB isn’t leading the Woke way. It’s just regurgitating the “Aotearoa” wording used by the Labour Government-subsidised Newshub.

We’re still New Zealand!
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October 12, 2023 8:52am
- Che Guava
  
  National’s signage should read “Get New Zealand back on track” rather than “Get our country back on track.” I guarantee that their PR people thought that “New Zealand” was too assertive and offensive to the soft (headed) middle who they are so desperate to appeal to.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:40am
  - cmm
    
    Putting an emphasis on “New Zealand” would promote New Zealand First.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:51am
    - Che Guava
      
      How?
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:54am
      - cmm
        
        Branding 101
        
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        October 12, 2023 11:43am
  - imalwaysright
    
    To paraphrase Basil Fawlty – I mentioned New Zealand , but I think I got away with it !
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:34pm
imalwaysright

The Poverdy in Pyjamas speech from Our Lady of the Attic was the best thing she has done for the future of New Zealand.

Goodbye Labour
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October 12, 2023 9:04am
Maggie Pie

A bestie txts.

The 5 Greatest Threats To This Country…..
Socialism, Labor, The Greens, Te Pati Maori,
and the Half-Wits who support the ideology.
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October 12, 2023 9:11am
- RoboRob
  
  Which is probably >50% of the population sadly.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:17am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Only amongst women (Last roy morgan poll had 33% of women under 50 supporting Greens or Te Racists). Men seem more morally ethically and economically grounded.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:13pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Isn’t voting voting Green almost automatic for posers at the age where their brain has not fully developed?
      
      I hung out with those people in my 20s and 30s but could only manage voting (old) Labour. Eventually I became estranged from the said posers as their irrational bullshit just became too unbearable.
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:00pm
- Dave
  
  ‘Labor’? How is an Australian political party one of the five greatest threats to us?
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:39am
- Damocles11
  
  Why would you care? You don’t vote.
  
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  October 12, 2023 3:55pm
Give a Man a Fish

The Labour government say they’re in it for us. Yeah right! In six short years they have literally ruined it for us by making nearly everything worse with their vision.

What is Labour’s vision for us. Their big idea/agenda with the support of an activist judiciary, left-wing universities/institutions and a paid for compliant media is the ethnic division of NZ with Māori put at the front of the queue in all areas of society with everyone else ignored or treated as second class citizens.

The nation’s natural resources that belong to all NZers such as life giving water are being corruptly transferred through co-governance to a small subset of Māori to control. It is going to the greedy tribal leaders and their mega corporations who pay no tax. How dare they!

Every racist law Labour has passed is deliberately hostile and against the best interests of the vast majority of New Zealanders. They have never had a mandate from the people for any of these racist laws. They have sneakily passed them all with the media running cover.

Labour’s traitorous legacy is creating a less cohesive society that is divided by ethnicity with Māori given undue advantage through these racist laws over their fellow countrymen in all areas of society. What could possibly go wrong!

I’ll tell you. We will ourselves become a hotspot in future years if this current separatist nonsense isn’t stopped.

New Zealand was built on the ideal of one standard of citizenship where each citizen is as good as the next person. No better, no worse.

Our current ever-changing constitution is a disgrace. It certainly doesn’t have your back unless you identify as Māori.

When the laws of the land don’t function for the people and respect private property rights, they will either peacefully or violently be chucked out. The Māori elites need to realise that no law is sacrosanct.

The TOW can be chucked out like any other law when the people decide its ongoing twisted modern interpretation is a complete farce. They want us to believe the largest empire ever, and we are told on a daily basis the most evil colonists in the history of the world also decided to sign an enlightened partnership agreement in 1840 with tribal people with no written language. Please!!!

So we’re told these evil colonialists didn’t demand sovereignty be ceded in the Treaty, but then they immediately acted as if sovereignty had been ceded for the next 150 or so years. Isn’t it amazing the British completely misinterpreted what they wrote and signed in the Treaty.

Māori elites are deluded and in fantasy land thinking they are entitled to special rights in perpetuity over everyone else because some of their ancestors migrated here first. Who cares!!

A first born child no longer gets control of all the family’s assets whilst later born siblings get nothing because the first born happened to arrive on earth first.

New Zealand has no indigenous people. No humans originated or naturally occurred here. All humans migrated here. Pretty simple to understand. We are a nation of migrants. Māori arrived here around 1300 per carbon dating evidence. Tasman arrived 1642, Cook 1769 and European whalers and settlers afterwards with significant immigration from 1840 after the treaty was signed and sovereignty ceded to the British.

We’re all descended from earlier migrants or are recent migrants to these shores. We all have a different mix of ancestors. Nobody owes anybody else a living or a cushy life or a greater say or a greater role in society simply because some of their forebears arrived in NZ before someone elses.

NZ badly needs a proper written constitution voted for by the people through a referendum that guarantees such things as freedom of speech ( protects citizens from censorship, and allows debate), a secular state (this would protect citizens from the state forcing certain religious beliefs/ethnic world views on them) and crucially one standard of citizenship where everyone is treated fairly, consistently and impartially by the law.

A new written constitution as our supreme law would require all discriminatory racist laws be repealed as they would all be in conflict with one standard of citizenship.

I party voted ACT earlier in the week. I know they can only do so much, but I respect David Seymour because he has clearly, consistently and passionately articulated he will uphold the ideal of one standard of citizenship where all are treated equally under the law. That is the only issue that is important to me. A hopeful future for this country depends on it.

Whatever happens, traitorous and utterly incompetent Labour deserve to be chucked out for making NZ considerably poorer and utterly divided compared to when they came to power 6 years ago.
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October 12, 2023 9:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  Well said.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:44am
- MCōs
  
  ‘No humans originated or naturally occurred here.’
  
  You might like to explain where humans ‘naturally occurred’
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:49am
  - cmm
    
    Africa, especially Southern Africa.
    Khoi San remnants in South Africa go back over 120,000 years.
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:49am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Too many inconsistencies in our genetic makeup for us to have occured naturally .
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:17pm
- NothingLeft
  
  It would be extremely dangerous to write a constitution in these delusionally woke racism-approving times. Particularly when the legal profession leans so far left.
  
  We would inevitably be crafting a rod for our own back and most likely it would lead to faster socio-economic destruction of NZ.
  
  Copying a successful constitution from another country might be best bet, but would never pass the woke gatekeepers.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:56am
  - imalwaysright
    
    You are dead right Noth,
    
    Imagine Geoffrey Palmer getting his sweaty hands on the quill and goatskin.
    
    It would be the equivalent of a death warrant for an entire country.
    
    Saw Mai Chen on tv3 giving advice on constitutional law regarding the election .
    Can’t recall her doing the same when our human rights were illegally suspended during covid.
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:23pm
- miltonF
  
  Personally I don’t respect David Seymour because he DID NOT “uphold the ideal of one standard of citizenship where all are treated equally under the law.”
  
  He destroyed that mirage by supporting vaccine mandates, and not reversing his position in the face of damning evidence.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:26pm
I remember when

Point of Order: 30 July 2022.
Buzz from the Beehive:
“Then came news of a report which shows Government support has lifted incomes for beneficiaries by over 40% over and above inflation since 2018.
The report takes into account inflation data from up to March 2022 and reports a 43% rise in After Housing Costs incomes, said SD&E Minister Carmel Sepuloni.
When adjusted for recent changes in inflation, the increase in total incomes in real terms is 40%.”
“This figure does not take into account the Winter Energy payment, which is currently received by 1.1m New Zealanders.”

Does this make a mockery of the media attacks on National saying future increases will be based on inflation, rather than wage increases.
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October 12, 2023 9:18am
- Swifty
  
  Increasing state dependence and consigning ever increasing numbers of New Zealanders and their children to subsistence living and denying them rewarding lives through work and achievement is nothing to be proud of.
  
  Quite the reverse. It is shameful. It is the primary cause of the decline in social behaviours we’ve seen over the last 50 years and a major driver in our increasing crime levels and the harms caused by them.
  
  Unfortunately, increasing state dependency is a primary Labour tactic to obtain and secure political advantage.
  
  Free from state dependency people have no need for the NZ Labour Party.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:24am
- Paulus
  
  You forget the so called media are always right
  – like my wife !
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:23am
Matt Long

Heh, this election I’ve been active on Twitter for the first time, you meet the funniest people.
One posted yesterday There’ll be 20 Greens in parliament this Election like five times.
So I posted, Great, 20 Terrorist Supporters, and he blocked me. Finally, I’ve been trying to get blocked for weeks.
https://x.com/MattLon13470215/status/1711993660299198503?s=20
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October 12, 2023 9:27am
Damocles11

Front page of The New Red Herald today with the headline:
‘Nats take hit in new poll’.
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October 12, 2023 9:49am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Now they’ve got a red banner saying “Live: Chris Hipkins calls National’s tax policy a ‘scam'”….which he has done multiple times over the last two weeks.
  
  If Labour are deservedly thrown out on Saturday I will laugh like a drain, and celebrate that I never have to look at Hipkins’ stupid face again. If it has to be a Nat/ACT/NZF coalition I hope they put WP in as broadcasting minister and cut all funding and advertising spending to these MSM opinion bloggers/left wing mouthpieces. If they want to masquerade political soapboxing as objective news reporting, they can do it on their own dime.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:56am
  - Ghost
    
    Has anyone seen mr Hopkins talk about labour policy? Any time I have seen him in a presser it is always about national. Apart from fruit and vegetables I have no idea what labour policy is.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:04am
    - Paulus
      
      No whole Labour Election idea was to ignore any Labour history or anything into the future, but just denigrate the Opposition in whatever lies they can and the media will support it all.
      That what Labour pay them to do with taxpayers borrowed money !
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:26am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      When they talk about fruit and vegetables they mean the Labour caucus
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:31am
    - kowloon
      
      No!, But I do know a lot more about the National Party Policies, and how much more preferable they are than another 6 years of Labour corruption.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:32am
Maggie Pie

We were supposed to be having a ‘girls lunch’ down at The Viaduct tomorrow,
but we’ve decided it might be best to pospone till next week 🙁

‘Hamas calling for worldwide Jihad-of-the-Sword on Friday 13th’

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2023/10/video-muslims-in-the-u-s-laugh-happily-at-images-of-massacred-israeli-civilians
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October 12, 2023 9:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Did Jacinda confiscate all swords?
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:20am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    She did want to confiscate the ones that didn’t begin with ‘S’
    
    😀
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:31am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Indeed….
      
      Ardern is now one of the leading anti-free speech figures in the world and continues to draw support from political and academic establishments.
      
      https://jonathanturley.org/2023/09/20/harvards-jacinda-ardean-calls-on-the-united-nations-to-crack-down-on-free-speech-as-a-weapon-of-war/
      
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      October 12, 2023 2:10pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      You two Maggs are quite the double act
      
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      October 12, 2023 7:03pm
- Keith White
  
  This detailed threat pretty much lacks ambiguity and nuance… they sound serious about it.
  
  Mod; the link is to a Hamas’ spokesghoul threat as documented on The Daily Signal website.
  
  https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/10/11/there-blood-hamas-issues-unambiguous-call-arms-support-jihad-waging-gaza/
  
  “Fortunately”, in NZ, if anything like this happened the police would be up to half an hour away – or longer; and if anyone successfully defended themselves against home invaders or terrorists / criminals in the streets, they’d be in jail long-time.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:09am
- Keith White
  
  Maggie, your partner should acquire for you the latest accessory for the urban-lady-at-risk: a phased-plasma coherent-light rifle in the 40-terawatt range, with four-dimensional IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) – oh, and with the MD (Molecular Disintegrator) option (for when you absolutely positively don’t want to leave behind a mess), in case you’re attacked by a terr.
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:45pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The beauty with Easy-Off is that it’s not illegal to ‘conceal carry’ in the Birkin.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:23pm
- NothingLeft
  
  We should form battalions of fat tattooed woke young blue haired far-left Green/Te Racist supporting women, led by Green MP’s, to serve as defenders against homicidal Islamists. They can go in as first responders to hug them into submission.
  
  Inject forces of evolution (immediate personal consequences) into their fantasies about how the world works.
  
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  October 12, 2023 1:24pm
Damocles11

Another disgusting Emmerson cartoon in The Herald today, this time a smoking Winston is the ventriloquist controlling dummy Luxon, as they sit on boxes with a bucket labelled ‘votes’ at their feet.
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October 12, 2023 9:56am
- MCōs
  
  In a way his shadow hangs over the Nats already.
  Prior to Mr Luxon talking about ‘picking up the phone’ to Winston NZF was hardly on the radar.
  Then someone, Chris Bishop I think, mentioned a second election.
  Suddenly NZF starts moving up in the polls at the expense of ACT & straight into cabinet
  
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  October 12, 2023 1:00pm
  - Damocles11
    
    So there is this knee-jerk element out there that goes “They mentioned Winston! Stuff it, I’ll vote for him!”
    New Zealanders are certainly an odd bunch.
    
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    October 12, 2023 3:59pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hipkins didn’t know either, and wants it changed smartly That is rubbished, a second election was not mentioned till last weekend, Peters has been above 5% for all polls the last 5 or 6 weeks, and what Nats said is very clear, if they can’t get an agreement, then there would be another election, what part of that is in correct?
    
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    October 12, 2023 9:36pm
Sparrow

We are all aware of the Labour supporting mainstream media and the leanings of various blogs. As not being on any social media such as Facebook curious to know are these sites having an impact on the election ? I might be totally wrong but my impression is that Labour is more savvy in using these forms of communication.
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October 12, 2023 10:06am
- cmm
  
  “We are all aware of the Labour supporting mainstream media”
  
  I don’t think they are really Labour supporters. The natural home of a media person etc is the Greens.
  
  But it is Labour that fills the trough they eat from. They know they must make the right noises to keep the trough full.
  
  And between Labour terms, National will just be nice and keep the trough full too.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:45am
krazykiwi

Why Does the Progressive Left Have a Particular Animus Towards the Jewish State?

There is a celebratory, almost gleeful mood that sets in among some such people when Israelis are killed. Among the rest, there is a steely lack of sympathy where in any other similar circumstance there would be an outpouring of emotion. And it is hard to avoid the conclusion that this is because Israelis are usually Jews. As somebody called Dave Rich put it to Nick Cohen, writing in the Spectator yesterday:

Anti-Semites are getting excited by the sight of dead Jews… Sorry to be blunt but I am in an uncompromising mood. They’re not angry because Israeli soldiers have killed Palestinians. The sight of Hamas murdering Israeli civilians has exhilarated them instead and filled them with joy.

And the evidence for this is everywhere – across Twitter and indeed across the streets of many national capitals in previous days. Some progressives living in the West get excited, let us repeat, by the sight of dead Jews. In some respects, it is as simple as that.
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October 12, 2023 10:20am
- cmm
  
  I think it is oversimplifying things to make it all just about Jewishness.
  
  Instead I think it is more because Israel, and Jews in general, are highly successful people who have flourished where others have failed. Israel is the only well developed country in an otherwise shithole of the Middle East.
  
  Instead of taking Israel as an example and building up a viable and prosperous nation, the people in the area choose to continue a third-world existence and attack Israel for being successful.
  
  As I recently heard an ex-Israeli officer say of Gaza: They could have built another Singapore but instead chose to make another Somalia.
  
  I see huge parallels with the way similar attitudes were applied to white people in Africa or British colonialists across the world. Rather than learning from them the third world tears it down and destroys.
  
  The brutality of that destruction is beyond comprehension for the average Westerner.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:42am
  - Che Guava
    
    “I think it is oversimplifying things to make it all just about Jewishness.”
    
    I agree. People often criticise Jewish behaviour, and the retort is usually that the critic self-evidently hates Jews and is an anti-semite. This is just dumb on its face, but it is used as a get out of jail free card. By the same standard, people criticising Palestinians must hate them because they are Palestinians. Maybe it’s the behaviour at issue, not the innate characteristics?
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:50am
    - Dave
      
      This is not the first time you’ve implied that Jewish behaviour is obnoxious to other people. Perhaps you should explicitly identify this behaviour.
      
      My guess is that Jews’ unforgivable sin is to reject the more popular, shiny new monotheisms in favour of an earlier version. Of course, their useful willingness to lend money when the new religions forbade lending at interest but their practitioners couldn’t get money any other way, magically transmogrified into usury when the new religionists had to pay it back.
      
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      October 12, 2023 5:19pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        There is a general culture pushing children to excel academically. So there are more Nobel Prizes per capita going to Jewish people than to any other group, if I’m not mistaken. Jews around the world are about 0.2% of the world’s population but have earned 22% of all individual recipients of Nobel Prizes worldwide between 1901 and 2009. This also means they disproportionately tend to be in top level roles. All sorts of fanciful conspiracy theories arise from these facts. They are basically very similar to high achieving Asians in this regard.
        
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        October 12, 2023 9:54pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The left hates success, the left is the domain of people who can’t compete with the best in domains of maximum status. Which is why they are always scheming and pushing to overthrow existing social order and norms. They know it’s the only possible route to the top for them.
  
  Jews (and now east and southern asian educated elites) are the most dynamic and successful cultures on the planet. They are the avatar of focused successful competence in the world and so must be bought low by the envious underachievers that make up the left – who see path to success as being by taking off others by compulsion rather than seeking reward for effort.
  
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  October 12, 2023 2:17pm
Ghost

What a pathetic principal

A school principal has issued a public apology amid intense backlash over his response to a female student ‘twerking’ at a party.

After footage of 17-year-old Kaylee Timonet dancing behind a friend at a homecoming after-party was shared on social media, Jason St Pierre – the principal of Walker High School in the US state of Louisiana – removed Timonet from her role as the president of the Student Government Association as punishment.

Additionally, he withdrew his endorsement of Timonet’s application for a school scholarship, an accolade only awarded to two students each year – prompting an uproar among the wider community.

Article

Additional video
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October 12, 2023 10:30am
- Che Guava
  
  Disagree. Twerking [Mod – deleted, show respect to woman, no need to call any female that] should be held to account. What happened to young ladies with a sense of decency and self-respect?
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:44am
  - Che Guava
    
    [Mod – it’s not up for debate]
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:56am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Held to account for what? Seriously.
    She was having fun. Yes twerking is ridiculous but so what?
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:00am
    - Paulus
      
      I know I am old and ignorant but what is twerking ?
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:28am
      - Ghost
        
        Second link shows her dancing.
        
        2 0
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        October 12, 2023 11:32am
    - Che Guava
      
      Even though it’s just twerking, he should have the right to remove his endorsement and instead endorse someone who had the sense not to twerk. He certainly shouldn’t cave in to the baying mob.
      
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      October 12, 2023 11:33am
      - Ghost
        
        No he shouldn’t, there is nothing wrong with twerking, especially when the schools own dance team have twerked in school performances
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:02pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        We should be encouraging all kids to go t werk.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:05pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “No he shouldn’t, there is nothing wrong with twerking, especially when the schools own dance team have twerked in school performances”
        
        Because X has been done before, X is an acceptable thing to do is clearly fallacious. They probably should have been reprimanded as well. Imagine thinking it’s OK for what are effectively kids to shake their asses in what is clearly a highly sexualised act.
        
        I’m deliberately overstating it, or course, but it just shows how far our standards have fallen in general.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:29pm
      - Ghost
        
        Rubbish, if the principal has no issue with the schools dance team twerking in performance then it shows he is a hypocrite for attacking a young girl twerking at a party. And for that same principal who has no problem with the dance team to bring his personal beliefs into a public school and attack the girl telling her she should be ashamed and concerned about her afterlife, and then continue to push his beliefs on that call is wrong. He knows that and has now requested a leave of absence.
        
        Our standards haven’t fallen at all there are always idiots attacking the young for how they dance.
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:39pm
      - Ghost
        
        BTW, she was dancing in her own home
        
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        October 12, 2023 12:51pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Twerking is like imitation female on top sex act? Very classy stuff.
        
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        October 12, 2023 9:13pm
- mandk
  
  I have vivid memories from 60+ years ago when I was at a RC Primary School, runs by nuns.
  
  At assembly one Monday morning, a girl was berated by the Mother Superior, in front of the whole school, for taking part in a ‘dance the twist’ competition on stage the local cinema.
  
  Even at 6 years old, it struck me as being a stupid and cruel thing for the nun to do.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:26am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Oh how bloody RIDICULOUS!
  
  Other than my partner telling me on the odd occassion to tone things down a bit, I’m sure I’ve never actually offended anybody.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:31am
mandk

Food price inflation 8.0% in year to September quarter. Down only just a little from the June quarter.

Grocery price inflation now 10.7% and Fruit and veg inflation down to 1.4%.

Just goes to show how unhelpful Hipkins’ GST-free bribe for F&V will be for poor families. Tinned F&V much more important than fresh for low-income folk.
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October 12, 2023 11:00am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Just a hit on Julian Batchelor by the Australian reporter Frank Chung.

Some dropkick australia professor days Julian Batchelor is racist. Does not cite anything, no evidence, but he is racist LOL.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/julian-batchelor-the-most-hated-man-in-new-zealand-so-says-australian-news-agency/?
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October 12, 2023 11:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  professor says*
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:43am
Maggie Pie

Doesn’t sound right to me….

I’m hearing a guy that went to vote yesterday, (who was registered) and had lived in his electorate for over 20 years, turned up only to find he wasn’t on the Register.
They told him it didn’t matter, asked his name and address, but didn’t request any ID.
He was then handed the forms and voted accordingy.

Surely this cant be right…he reckoned there could be thousands who have voted like this. Is the fix in??
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October 12, 2023 11:21am
- Ghost
  
  They confirm the details before his vote is counted.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:25am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Really??
    
    He wasn’t even asked for ID for goodness sake!
    
    7 4
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    October 12, 2023 11:35am
- Vinicius
  
  It would be counted as a special vote. Nothing wrong with the process the voting place followed.
  
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  October 12, 2023 11:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is the fix in?
  Well let’s face it, the commies are desperate.
  
  8 2
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  October 12, 2023 11:47am
- thirteenstars
  
  His will be a special vote.
  
  I voted yesterday and being out of my electorate I had to make a special vote.
  
  At the door I was required to fill out a declaration with my full details and sign it. I was then given a voting card.
  
  I was directed to the special votes person who had me sit down because she had to check my address to get the correct electorate. I then had to fill out another declaration with my full details and sign and date it.
  
  That declaration was put into one side of the voting pouch and sealed. The actual voting paper was given to me, I went to the booth, made my two ticks, and sealed the paper in the other side of the pouch. Then I deposited it in the special votes box.
  
  The whole process took about ten minutes. I’m pretty sure my vote is secure, at least for voting out of electorate. The staff were very professional and courteous and I’m glad I got it out of the way.
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

No EV supercars.

“We don’t want to do an electric car which weighs two tons and then has 2,000 horsepower.” He added that a high-performance EV could not weigh more than 3,300 pounds. “Weight is at the core of our brand.”

https://fellowamericandaily.com/mclaren-ceo-says-no-to-electric-supercar/
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October 12, 2023 11:22am
- NothingLeft
  
  Supercar manufacturers are struggling to maintain relevance – chasing ever more extreme power levels, when a 1000hp $150k Tesla Model S can leave most in the dust. Aero on supercars is mostly bullshit, adding maybe 5-10% downforce compared to weight of car at speeds you are allowed to drive at on roads. They are all ostentatious style-over-substance.
  
  When the Tesla roadster update (0-100 in <2s) finally gets into production (next year?) they'll be in even worse shape.
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is all just an experiment, a pipe dream.
    Soo there won’t be any more minerals to make the batteries. It will come to a grinding halt.
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:09pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    The Tesla will probably do one lap before it auditions for a main role in The China Syndrome and destroys the track.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:12pm
Cassandra

From Wall Street Journal: Officials said they found the mutilated bodies of women and children scattered across the kibbutz. Some residents, Israeli soldiers said, had been decapitated.

“It’s not a war or a battlefield,” Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, head of the Israel Defense Forces Depth Command, told reporters at the kibbutz. “It’s a massacre.”
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October 12, 2023 11:57am
- Ian Boag
  
  Half a ton of high explosive dropped into a schoool would have much the same effect except the bits would be smaller and wider spread …
  
  Cutting up children is an atrocity. Agreed. Blowing them up from an aircraft, maybe not so much ?
  
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  October 12, 2023 6:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Electric trucks.
Nobody wants to buy them. Take away the subsidies and the EV market would collapse overnight. It is the same in NZ. Subsidies propping up the market with Tax dollars taken from those who don’t want EVs.

https://patriotsnewsstand.com/paintthenewsred/electric-pickup-trucks-are-terrible-compared-to-the-regular-trucks-that-men-drive/?utm_placement=paintthenewsred?
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October 12, 2023 12:05pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The only way EV’s can work for towing or camper vans is with battery swap.
  
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  October 12, 2023 1:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Boat trailers too.
    There won’t be many charging stations at Mangawhai, only two petrol stations.
    Oh just put a spare battery in the boat, or a fuel run generator. I am sure the campers want that running all night!
    
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    October 12, 2023 5:14pm
- Drone
  
  Don’t want or can’t afford either way SO..
  
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  October 12, 2023 3:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Can’t afford with the subsidie
    
    1 0
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    October 12, 2023 5:15pm
- MCōs
  
  What’s your problem with electric vehicles?
  You may prefer internal combustion vehicles, whereas other people are just as entitled to use electric.
  For most people vehicles are there for their convenience not the other way round.
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:55pm
- [email protected]
  
  Thanks for the link.
  
  I forwarded that link to my brother in law.
  
  He’s one of the most intelligent people I have ever met in my life. He’s looking at buying a Rivian truck. Hopefully your link article will help him ask the right questions when he test drives the Rivian on the 25th.
  
  It will be interesting to see his response.
  
  My personal experience with normal passenger EV’s has been very positive. Low operating and maintenance costs.
  
  Trucks might be a different story.
  
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  October 12, 2023 7:48pm
Cassandra

CNN:
Babies and toddlers were found with “heads decapitated” in Kfar Aza, Netanyahu spokesman says.
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October 12, 2023 12:24pm
Cassandra

WASHINGTON — President Biden said Wednesday that he has seen “confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children” in southern Israel — following initial reports that up to 40 babies were butchered over the weekend in homes near the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

“I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children. I never thought I’d ever — anyway,” Biden, 80, told leaders of Jewish groups at the White House.
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October 12, 2023 12:27pm
- Ghost
  
  I’ve seen a few comments of where videos of the beheadings have been published, but I have no desire to share that or look to confirm
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:41pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    I agree Ghost,
    I think human suffering and death videos should be the only thing moderated.
    We can post a death video but we can’t post a nickname for a past prime minister.
    
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    October 12, 2023 12:53pm
    - lifesgood
      
      I agree. For some strange reason there is extreme sensitivity against any negative description of the failed PM.
      
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      October 12, 2023 1:37pm
      - Drone
        
        He hasn’t failed yet lifesgood he has one last trick up his sleeve.. One last throw of the dice (weighted dice)..
        
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        October 12, 2023 3:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Good choice Ghost. I am strong mentally but I just don’t want to see that just because some say “photos, or it did not happen.”
    
    If images or videos were posted here I think the Mods will be giving the poster a holiday.
    
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    October 12, 2023 5:19pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Why would the mods give someone a holiday?
      I’ve received hundreds on twitter…some of the goriest ones have already had more than a million views. Elon is happy for them to be posted.
      
      Just saying.
      
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      October 12, 2023 5:34pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        OK. If they are there I have no reason to see them.
        
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        October 12, 2023 5:54pm
- DimChappie
  
  Who has more credibility about decapitating babies – President Biden or an anonymous source posting to The YNC as Gibbonskin? He/she wrote: “It was already exposed as a hoax. The source of the story was a Jewish settler in the West Bank who was an extremist and a well known nutter and conspiracy theorist. The Israeli media reported his comments as fact and all the Zionist retards ran the story without any journalistic standards. Hamas are brutal, but they aren’t aren’t ISIS.”
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:30pm
ecco

Interesting interview by Sean Plunket with Bob Jones on the platform this morning. Will be interesting to see if Bob’s predictions eventuate on Saturday.
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October 12, 2023 12:27pm
- kevn
  
  ecco… What was the general gist of the interview?
  
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  October 12, 2023 12:55pm
  - Vinicius
    
    It is here:
    
    https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/sir-bob-jones-on-the-2023-general-election
    
    Also on YouTube.
    
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    October 12, 2023 1:23pm
    - David Garrett
      
      That link doesn’t load….”404 error”
      
      3 0
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      October 12, 2023 1:58pm
      - Vinicius
        
        David,
        
        I tested it again just now on 2 different browsers with no issues.
        
        Or try this one: https://youtu.be/Tsj0sMlTfoA
        
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        October 12, 2023 2:10pm
      - Ghost
        
        Weird. It loads for Mr
        
        Try Youtube
        
        2 0
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        October 12, 2023 2:11pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Downtick for it does not load.
        I seem to be able. Maybe some security issue?
        
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        October 12, 2023 6:34pm
Chuck Bird

It appears Luxon is doing coalition talks before he knows who his coalition partner(s) are.

What will he do if someone says for some policy that I will sit on the cross benches if you do not move on some policy?
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October 12, 2023 12:38pm
- Paulus
  
  Luxon is successful international Business Man remember, not a Socialist ex Uni hack like Chippy and Grunter both ex Victoria.
  
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  October 12, 2023 1:27pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Why not answer the question?
    
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    October 12, 2023 2:32pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Because your ‘question’ is based on an unproved smear.
      
      1 0
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      October 12, 2023 8:40pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Robertson was Ex Otago wasn’t he
    
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    October 12, 2023 10:14pm
- Warren
  
  Where’s the link Chuck or is this another rant against the National Party .
  
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  October 12, 2023 6:26pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    These is not link needed. I applies to both leaders.
    The Greens an the Maori Party could make thing difficult.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:35pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      You said “It appears Luxon is doing coalition talks before he knows who his coalition partner(s) are.”
      Where is your evidence for this?
      
      Talking nonsense again Chuck?
      Drive by smearing again?
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:39pm
Inandout

“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us” and “if the Arabs put down their guns there would be no more fighting. If the Israelis put down theirs there would be no more Israel.”
From Golda Meir and she encapsulated the whole Israel situation in a few words.
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October 12, 2023 12:44pm
The Veteran

What does the ‘media’ know that we don’t … in describing Winston First the Kingmaker have they forgotten that, by definition, a Kingmaker has options ….meaning the pinstriped dwarf could just a easily go with Labour. Make no mistake, Hipkins wants to continue as PM and having NZF on board would suit him as being a foil to TPM.

Do people understand that in voting NZF they could well be voting for another three years hard Labour with zip time off for good behaviour? … just askin for a friend.
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October 12, 2023 1:08pm
- Littletramp
  
  Disagree, the best play by far here and one the media just do not want to expose/discuss is for Winston and Seymour to join hands and ensure National dismantles all this ideological crap and co-governance that Labour has put in place.
  They Act/NZF both have sufficient policy alignment to achieve this, and together they would have the numbers to hold Luxon/National over a barrel.
  With Seymour’s acumen and Winston’s experience, together they would be Nationals worst nightmare, and we would be cheering them on.
  
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  October 12, 2023 1:29pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Totally.
    Great post.
    
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    October 12, 2023 3:26pm
Libertarians are right

Lifted directly from Stuff:

ACT leader David Seymour was asked about the conduct of the Israeli Defence Force in response to a terrorist attack by the Hamas militant that controls the Palestinian Gaza Strip at the press conference not long ago.

Israel has sealed off the strip, preventing food, water, fuel, and medicines from reaching the more than two million people living there, as it launches air strikes to “crush” Hamas. Palestine’s envoy to New Zealand Izzat Salah Abdulhadi has said this as “totally against international law” and wants New Zealand to push the Israelis to allow humanitarian aid into the strip.

Seymour said Israel had been “backed into a corner”, and “ultimately, people on both sides of the border are suffering due to the actions of Hamas”.

“I guess the other way you could ask the question is how would you like the Israelis to respond differently when Hamas terrorists, hiding within the Gaza Strip, have done what they have just done.

“I’m not sure what the Israelis could be doing differently,in light of the barbaric brutalism, that people just going to a concert suffered.”

He said the idea of establishing “safe zones” in Gaza and getting aid through was a “desirable outcome”.

“But again, you know, Hamas are the problem here. If they were prepared to say, ‘These are safe zones which we will not participate in any kind of military activity from’, that would make it easier for everything. Once again, the ball is in Hamas’ court. This is a terrorist organization that has carried out barbaric brutality, and it’s time for the world to speak plainly about that.”
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October 12, 2023 1:08pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Good response. Seymour is perhaps the smartest guy in parliament. Clearly still makes a few wrong calls, but is driven by ethics rather than cynical populism, and exactly the kind of guy I want to see with major say in next govt.
  
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  October 12, 2023 2:27pm
  - miltonF
    
    Seymour’s entire stance during Covid was based on populism. It certainly wasn’t based on ethics or science. The only reason he isn’t still supporting and pushing jab mandates is because the popular opinion about the vaccines has shifted. Classic fair-weather “libertarian” and why I can’t bring myself to support him. An apology and a promise to commit to libertarian principles instead of populism would go a long way.
    
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    October 12, 2023 11:59pm
- Drone
  
  Where was our government response and our foreign minister’s response.. Lar
  
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  October 12, 2023 3:49pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    3 days early?
    
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    October 12, 2023 4:59pm
- Damocles11
  
  A perfect response from David. Hopefully people will re-consider where things stand & give ACT their votes this election. We need the Treaty Referendum and we need a strong ACT to make it happen.
  
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  October 12, 2023 4:25pm
- cmm
  
  “Israel has sealed off the strip, preventing food, water, fuel, and medicines from reaching the more than two million people living there”
  
  Except they haven’t.
  
  The border with Egypt remains as open as it ever was but the Egyptians don’t want a bar of Hammas either.
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:31pm
thirteenstars

Less than 1km from the eastern border of the Gaza Strip is an Anzac memorial:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzac_Memorial_(Israel)

Map:

https://shorturl.at/knPR2

It was dedicated on the 50th anniversary of the Second Battle of Gaza, fought in 1917. It’s about where Hamas terrorists came through and where Israeli forces will go in.

Makes you think.
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October 12, 2023 1:11pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Amazing isn’t it that same names keep cropping up throughout history, Beersheba, mentioned in the Bible and in various events and battles down through the ages.
  
  Wherever armies advance/retreat another army has done the same thing in the same area.
  
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  October 12, 2023 2:56pm
Maggie Pie

“FROM MEOLA CREEK TO THE HARBOR”

I’m actually surprised the ‘MP-for-Tijuana’ keeps tweeting TBH 😀

If the REPLIES he gets to his Tweets are any indication, the chances of him being elected even in a Hood like Mt Albert, would have to be slim to non-existent.
LOL!!

https://twitter.com/RMarchNZ/status/1711858507874799781
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October 12, 2023 1:36pm
SmokerGuy

The difference is questions from the media in a labour vs National press conference this election is unbelievable. They constantly asking national about ACTs policies or NZ First policies and if National agrees but absolutely none of that towards Hipkins. Green and Maori party have some pretty extreme policies but nada from the media. Honestly the way the press have behaved this election is absolutely disgraceful.
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October 12, 2023 1:57pm
- Cassandra
  
  Which is why more of the same is unacceptable. There’s got to be some accountability. I support freedom of the press but it’s got to be the press, not so propaganda outfit. The disused barracks in Waiouru would make a wonderful media re-education campus. I can nominate some nice folk from North Vietnam who know all about correcting wrong-think.
  
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  October 12, 2023 2:31pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Just cut off taxpayer funding to leftie media and let the market sort it out.
    
    If there must be taxpayer funding of media (and democracies do need news to keep voters informed), then it should be distributed in proportion to voter support – eg give each MP control over where 0.83% of govt media budget (especially advertising!!!) goes. That would very quickly see NZ media drop their bias, and likely see a few dinosaurs like RNZ close up shop.
    
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    October 12, 2023 3:02pm
- Vinicius
  
  I watched the Luxon presser today and can support what you’re saying. Despite Luxon stating a number of times that he wasn’t going to conduct coalition talks before the election and not via the news media the barrage of questions continued.
  
  One of voices sounded an awful lot like Maiki Sherman from 1News who leans so far over to the left I’m amazed she can stand up.
  
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  October 12, 2023 3:04pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    As she proved after the debate tonight.
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:50pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes she was utterly pathetic, Hipkins was like a childish kid, even Jess was getting sick of his vile behaviour, not the type of behaviour for a pm
      
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      October 12, 2023 10:18pm
Maggie Pie

“Polls don’t work.They’re nonsense. Look we’ll wake up on Sunday morning and Luxon will be the new Prime Minister.
Then there’s the absolute nonsense about ‘Chippie’ and sausage rolls and all that crap”

– Sir Bob Jones (The Platform)

😀 😀 😀
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October 12, 2023 3:17pm
Hollyfield

The Herald online has a little heading “2.49pm Barely slept: Kiwi mum recounts son’s evacuation from Israel”. I clicked on it, and went to the Labour Party website. Thinking I had accidentally clicked on a nearby ad, I closed the page and had another go at reading that article. Again I was directed to the Labour Party website.

Just clicked on the article above it “2.58pm Roadworks expected to take longer than expected at SH1, Rangiriri”. Guess what – straight to the Labour Party.

Tried “2.35pm Thousands of Wellington properties temporarily without power” – no prizes for guessing directs to the Labour Party

And the same for all these:
“3.00pm Herald afternoon quiz: October 12”
“3.05pm Man found critically injured: Police seek witnesses”
“3.11pm What a global airport boss thought of his connection through Auckland”
“3.12pm Museum Notes The Gothic operated at 185 Victoria Ave, Whanganui”
“3.01pm Minister of Health Kieran McAnulty visit community hospital”

Guess the Labour Party is getting its money worth with multiple Herald articles all directing readers to its website instead of the article. Hopefully it annoys undecided voters as much as it has annoyed me.
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October 12, 2023 3:26pm
- Ghost
  
  I would be inclined to run an antivirus and maleware scan on your computer, none of those articles take me anywhere but to the nz herald article.
  
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  October 12, 2023 3:31pm
Vinicius

I use ad blocking software on my browser. Also, there are more Labour ads online today than usual, they must be running an advertising blast.

I do note they all very negative ads directed at Luxon and the Nats and don’t seem to mention their own ‘policies’. They’ve been running similar ads on NewstalkZB that are spreading false information.
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October 12, 2023 3:42pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Labour have nothing to sell, they are clearly utterly useless, complete poo-fingers. All they have left is making up shit about their opponents.
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:37pm
Hollyfield

It looks like they fixed it in the 5 minutes it took for my comment to get through moderation.
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October 12, 2023 3:43pm
Swifty

This is exactly why the left are scared to death of a referendum and will go to any lengths to talk New Zealanders out of holding one:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-majority-would-support-acts-treaty-referendum-although-voters-unsure-if-they-want-to-vote-on-it/CQFL5K2AFVGFBI6QMJWBYO4MI4/

I could say that if the left are against it then it is almost certainly a good idea.
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October 12, 2023 3:46pm
- krazykiwi
  
  From ACT today:
  
  ACT would bring a Treaty Principles Act to Parliament. The Act would be short but decisive. It would define the Principles of the Treaty as:
  
  1. All citizens of New Zealand have the same political rights and duties
  
  2. All political authority comes from the people by democratic means including universal suffrage, regular and free elections with a secret ballot
  
  3. New Zealand is a multi-ethnic liberal democracy where discrimination based on ethnicity is illegal
  
  Bullseye. We need this, and soon.
  
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  October 12, 2023 4:02pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Well, that’s the end of the NZ Maori rugby team, then.
    
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    October 12, 2023 7:21pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And so it should be.
      
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      October 12, 2023 8:53pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  53% of under 14 year old will be Maori or Pacifica by 2043.
  The treaty isn’t going anywhere.
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/one-in-three-children-projected-to-be-maori/#:~:text=Young%20M%C4%81ori%20and%20Pacific%20populations&text=The%20share%20of%20children%20who,percent%20over%20the%20same%20period.
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:43pm
  - Swifty
    
    What exactly do you mean by that Wayne?
    
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    October 12, 2023 6:27pm
  - greybeard
    
    Maybe 53% (or so) of under 14-year-olds will have a smidgeon of maori or pacifica blood by 2043.
    Well whoop-de-doo !
    So maybe about 47% will have none !
    And those (maybe) 53% will also have about 95% non-maori and/or non-pacific blood by 2043.
    Which will make them virtually non-maori / non-pacifica.
    And your point is…………..?
    
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    October 12, 2023 7:20pm
    - WaynelSexton
      
      So those diaries being robbed everyday are white people?
      
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      October 12, 2023 9:52pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Depends on many things, including immigration
    
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    October 12, 2023 7:22pm
- [email protected]
  
  And I would very much like referendums to be binding on our politicians. They are supposed to be working for us, not the other way around. That’s true democracy.
  
  Binding referendums would enable voters to maintain control over over-zealous politicians. That might also go a ways towards eliminating politicians that are only in it for themselves and politicians that lie. They could get booted out if enough people get unhappy with them.
  
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  October 12, 2023 5:47pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I would very much like referendums to be binding
    
    I suppose. There must be the odd country that works this way. Switzerland I guess, but their whole system is so different to ours that it’s hard to compare. Perhaps you have more examples?
    
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    October 12, 2023 6:42pm
    - [email protected]
      
      California. The increase in property taxes (rates) were forcing retired people out of their homes. A binding referendum limiting rate increases stopped that.
      
      When a politician such as Winston Peters has a track record of making promises and then ignoring them once elected there needs to be a way to get rid of people like him.
      
      Binding referendums is a democratic means to help keep politicians honest. That is why politicians appose them so much.
      
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      October 12, 2023 7:11pm
Swifty

Just like the NZ Labour Party – pretending to be something it’s not:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300987742/australian-woman-convicted-after-pretending-to-be-doctor-on-social-media
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October 12, 2023 3:49pm
Maggie Pie

No surprise she’s a ‘westie’ 😀

I wouldn’t know her from a single-use plastic bag….
but you can only imagine the mentality of this silly bitch!

https://twitter.com/westie4eva/status/1712296192456225003
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October 12, 2023 4:01pm
Truman lodge

My prediction of a one seat majority to Lab/Grn/TPM looks like happening.

I predicted last weekend that rogue polls would come out suggesting a swing to the left. The fix is in and it is going to happen 100 percent. TPM to win 6 seats and NZ first to get 4.9 percent.

If this happens will anyone here believe it is real or legit? The media will say oh incredible comeback but the polls were changing in the final week. These fake polls will justify the fix.

Enjoy saturday night people
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October 12, 2023 4:17pm
Swifty

To a Jewish person in the UK from a non-Jewish person also in the UK

“Are your people dead? Awwww – good!”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12620767/Ive-never-felt-frightened-Jewish-Britain-friends-say-deserve-it.html

Many on the left just don’t realise how sick they, themselves, have become.

Sick, sick, sick.
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October 12, 2023 4:47pm
Warren

It looks like Ryan Bridge and Jenna Lynch are desperate for a Labour Government and are doing all they can to achieve their goal with a hit on Chris Luxon today.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/newshub-reid-research-poll-poll-reveals-if-kiwis-think-chris-hipkins-christopher-luxon-are-performing-well-or-poorly.html
They have Hipkins at over 50% and Luxon at 45% for doing well an Hipkins at 30.4% not doing very well with Luxon at 34% at doing poorly.
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October 12, 2023 5:34pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-former-labour-leader-jacinda-ardern-makes-plea-for-labour-vote/X7VFTQQAGBFHNBOTRD5FD2ZXGY/

Jacinda Ardern just said this…

““So if you believe in reducing child poverty not increasing it; if you believe in acting on climate change, not ignoring it; if you believe in strong health and education services then vote for Labour.”

She is lying and despicable lies at that. One thing labour cannot campaign on is their performance. ….health is in the worst state ever, as with education.

Polytechs were losing 50 mil a year, after chippie restructured them for 300 million and added additional layers of bureaucracy they are now losing 100 mil a year. As for maori education, they’ve completely failed, Maori are lucky to be going to school at all these days.

If you want to act on climate then vote green, not loopy labour!
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October 12, 2023 5:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Downtick for voting Green.
  They are NOT Greens, they are communists
  
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  October 12, 2023 6:46pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ardern and her Labour luvvies think that just believing in something is enough.
  
  Everybody believes reducing child poverty is a good thing; it’s just that Ardern and her Labour mates were shit useless in making that belief come true.
  
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2020/01/my-prediction-ardern-would-increase.html
  
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  October 12, 2023 7:29pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Only a moron would think that taxing people is the way to ‘act on climate’- whatever that even means
  The hubris is stunning
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:44pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Only a brainwashed twit who’s been living under a rock for the last six years would pay any attention to that twaddle from Ardern.
  
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  October 12, 2023 9:38pm
NothingLeft

After the Hamas border raid into Israel it apparently took up to 7 hours for IDF to get on scene at the dance party and rescue people. I’m struggling to understand. Authorities would have been alerted within minutes and they have combat wings of helicopter gunships (Ramon airbase 5 minutes away) and Blackhawks with at least some combat troops in barracks that could have been on site within probably 10 minutes, and likely would have quickly suppressed the Hamas incursion. So why didn’t they?
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October 12, 2023 6:16pm
Sparrow

I have a question. What the hell do we watch on Saturday night ? Two channels who have given up on being neutral. Just unfortunately watched TVNZ1 news. A beat up on National super idea, gave a large coverage to Union leader plus some paramedic. No coverage given to National. Despicable and this is from an ex Labour supporter. This election has seen the worst bias in the media since I came to NZ in 1970 its outrageous. Hate to think what tomorrow’s news will be like won’t be watching that or tonight’s leaders debate. I hope Winston becomes the broadcasting minister and sorts these organisations and people out. If Labour is returned its goodbye to democracy.
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October 12, 2023 6:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Why watch anything?
  
  Play solitaire
  Do a cryptic X-word
  Bake a complicated cake
  Grafitti the neighbour’s fence, etc
  
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  October 12, 2023 7:20pm
- rockape
  
  They can be as biased as they want. It’s just more egg on their faces when the voters speak.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:43pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I wonder if The Platform or RCR will be covering the show?
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:08pm
Maggie Pie

Hard to belief the number of lefities DPF allows to infest this site.
I see where my post abot the Wessty posting shit about the hosk has alredy had 3 downtiks to one.!

Just sayng.
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October 12, 2023 6:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oh boy, you have been “offended”
  Nothing happens when you get offended.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo
  
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  October 12, 2023 6:50pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    😀
    
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    October 12, 2023 7:16pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/300988162/woman-killed-by-dog-in-northland-attack
Jesus.
What is wrong with this part of NZ ? ( or is that a stupid question ? )
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October 12, 2023 7:13pm
kevn

mutch-mackay… No Hosking? Why not.
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October 12, 2023 7:31pm
Ghost

Luxon hit out at Hipkins’ series of Cabinet disasters this year. But Chippy wasn’t having it replying, “None of my MPs beat people up with a bed leg.”

Article

Hmm, one of your mp’s assaulted her staff.

Meka Whaitiri is being investigated over claims she physically assaulted a staff member in her ministerial office

Another drove drunk, caused an accident and had to resign

Kiri Allan quits after being charged with reckless driving, refusing to accompany police officer

She wasn’t the only one to cause an accident

Labour MP admits causing three-car crash near Timaru

Let’s not forget Nash

Stuart Nash sacked from Cabinet after new email scandal

Or about

Michael Wood resigns as minister after revelations of further shareholdings

Trevor?

Trevor Mallard defamation case: Settling Speaker’s false rape claim against staffer costs taxpayers $333,000

And the list goes on and on with what your ministers and mp’s have done
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October 12, 2023 7:37pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Didn’t the legendary T Mallard punch someone?
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:12pm
Iamright

The comment from Hipkins about Unffendel was absolutely disgusting. I have never heard anything so low in all my life.
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October 12, 2023 7:38pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  He is such an asshole, a PM with no moral compass.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:09pm
- goNZ1
  
  Exactly, is this the same person that subscribed to the Adern kindness doctrine?
  What a fake
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:11pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  People in glass houses….. hah
  
  12 0
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  October 12, 2023 8:13pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  The whole panel after the debate agreed that it was the lowest point of the debate.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:19pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yes, and right their Luxon eon the debate, he could have said your justice minister crashed her car drunk and threatened the police with their job, what a vulgar insipid little man he is
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:31pm
Warren

Chris Luxon is showing skill of being a Leader where Chris Hipkins is being obnoxious and arrogant and acting like a perpetual schoolgirl .
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October 12, 2023 8:01pm
- nathie
  
  Yep switched off after the first two segments as had enough of Hipkins showing the viewers that he constantly lies and spreads dis-information (about National) and has nothing but empty slogans to define Labour’s “achievements” (if one can call them that).
  
  Good riddance Hipkins and Labour come Saturday – what a bunch of dishonest, devious, divisive and desperate incompetent selfish pretenders and wasters to have ever had the “privilege” of governing NZ.
  
  Will go down in history as NZ’s worst ever govt by a wide range of metrics.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:20pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It was very telling when JMM started getting flustered by the whining Hipkins
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:32pm
Maggie Pie

Watching the debate and just popped out while the ads are on.

God those gingas are a horrible pair.

Had to larf during the quick-fire segment, when Jessica went to Agnes in the audience, to ask her question about…. “what was going to be done about increasing the incomes of beneficiaries”?

You should have seen the look of horror that crossed Agnes’s partners face when Luxo told them he was going to create more jobs!
LOL!!

More later…
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October 12, 2023 8:04pm
- sht1971
  
  And she then said that work wasn’t the answer for everyone…there my friends is the problem with NZ today.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:08pm
- Damocles11
  
  Why not vote and help us get rid of Hipkins then?
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:34pm
SmokerGuy

What an absolutely horrible human being Chris Hipkins is. Rude and arrogant, the debate this evening has really shown him up for who he is. How anyone could want such an asshole running this country is beyond me.
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October 12, 2023 8:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It must have been stifling pretending to “Be Kind” for all those years under Jacinda.
  
  14 0
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  October 12, 2023 8:20pm
  - nathie
    
    Even used cars salesmen (and women) are more trustworthy than Labour’s bunch of so-called Ministers!
    
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    October 12, 2023 8:24pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yet I bet the media say tomorrow that Hipkins aced the debate.
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:35pm
sht1971

Was Agnes planted?Auckland Action Against Poverty spokesperson and a liar…
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/auckland-woman-owes-government-188-000-after-lying-about-relationship.html
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October 12, 2023 8:16pm
- Damocles11
  
  Yes, I’d say she was planted. The country is stuffed. The whole thing was a set-up to eviscerate Luxon.
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:43pm
- rockape
  
  Well done
  
  12 0
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  October 12, 2023 8:50pm
Goatie

This is so wrong – had an email from my mother’s resthome to say that if she wanted to vote I had to take her down to the voting station (which is no problem). No one official is going to collect their voting papers, as has been the norm in previous elections – (barring the covid election).
Not all oldies have someone willing to help them with this – they have the right to have a say in our countries future direction.
I presume prison immates have their ballots collected ????
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October 12, 2023 8:31pm
- NothingLeft
  
  In the past it’s been common for local party members to offer rides to those unable to get themselves to polling booths. Is that no longer done or not allowed?
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:00pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Well I spoke to my mother today, and she said they came round and let everybody vote that wanted to
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:38pm
Swifty

Hang on a minute!

I thought this Maori faith healing was all the rage? Isn’t the Maori Health Authority piling tens of millions into it? If he says he can cure cancer then we should believe him! Who are we to question ancient Maori healing practices!

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300987508/faith-healer-who-sexually-assaulted-women-found-unfit-to-stand-trial

This is just more white supremacy in practice!

//
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October 12, 2023 8:33pm
Chuck Bird

If someone saw the debate tonight, do you know what Chippy was referring to about bed leg?
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October 12, 2023 8:36pm
- kowtow
  
  Uffindel?
  
  If so they’ll forgive serious criminals and want to keep them out of prison attacking us but seem to have an unhealthy obsession with school boys .
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:39pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Thanks. Some people were not impressed.
    
    5 0
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    October 12, 2023 9:30pm
- sht1971
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300656643/national-mp-sam-uffindell-asked-to-leave-prestigious-kings-college-after-violent-nighttime-attack-on-younger-boy
  
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  October 12, 2023 8:40pm
Damocles11

‘Agnes’ is on a benefit because she has a criminal record and apparently can’t get work, and she wants to know how much more money taxpayers will give her so she will be ‘out of poverty’. ‘Agnes’ is a miserable bludger.

That’s about all I saw of the debate. I was working late, just got home, and the other half wanted to watch the debate on TVNZ plus one. I let fly with a tirade of foul language at that mongrel Hipkins and the whole Left wing set up that these ‘debates’ are. Then I stormed off to the bedroom and tapped out this comment. It is a farce, an utter sham. I’m not watching the rest of it, because it is total and utter c-rap.
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October 12, 2023 8:40pm
- emmess
  
  The analysis was pretty good for once
  It was amazing to see even Cunliffe sticking the boot into Hipkins
  
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  October 12, 2023 10:04pm
Vinicius

A poor debate with Hipkins being a rude, nasty little chappie. The stuff about Uffindell sets a new low for this campaign.
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October 12, 2023 8:43pm
Hugh Jarse

Wellington will be under a low cloud of smoke on Sunday morning, all the incinerators and shredders at Parliament will be running flat out, trying to get rid of the evidence of the last 6 years of incompetence. Luckily the man Hipkins hit at tonight, Uffindel, was the head of financial economic crime for Rabobank New Zealand, following money trails should be second nature to him.
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October 12, 2023 10:15pm

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