General Debate 22 October 2023

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Warren

How come Three Now, Newshub or whatever other name you would like to use is still using Public Interest Journalism funded by NZ on Air to interview Carmel Sepuloni on how the Labour Party are grieving after its crushing defeat from the November 14 General Election.
So can anyone share any light on this as the fund that was set up to help the media over Covid-19 has been closed.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300932677/public-interest-journalism-fund-closes
Has funds been hidden away again like happen with the $3 6 billion to the Housing Excellaration Fund from Covid-19 to help Labour with the housing Crisis.
It seems funny that the media are still using a fund set up to help them and has been closed, but is still available for this TV Media Outlet.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-carmel-sepuloni-reveals-what-happened-in-labour-caucus-meeting-after-catastrophic-election-defeat.html
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October 22, 2023 8:01am
- Ghost
  
  The funding from the final round doesn’t run out until may next year. Ok they’ve now changed it a month ago it was may 2024, now it is 2026
  
  While the tahua has now officially closed, some of those roles and projects are funded to run until January 2026, so we will continue to see the legacy of the fund, and its investment in the sustainability of the media sector, for some time yet. Ongoing oversight and support for these roles and projects will continue via the Journalism Manager, Gabriel Thomas:
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:10am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    A tahua has closed?
    
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    October 22, 2023 8:15am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      What is a tahua? Sorry, don’t answer that. I don’t care.
      
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      October 22, 2023 8:20am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Oh but you should..
        
        It’s a pile of food presented as a gift.
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:25am
      - Taieri
        
        It’s a pile of food presented as a gift.
        —————
        
        Served from a trough?
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:28am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Clan
        
        Tahua, or the inclusion of any other maori word, is designed to impart the element of undefined mysticism.
        
        Therefore any criticism or questioning becomes racist.
        
        All legislation and regulations must be written only in English, otherwise it will be chaos.
        Maori can invent a term for an English word or concept but white people can’t do the same for maori words or concepts.
        
        The basis of any contract is that both parties are able to understand it.
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:01am
      - sungsamning
        
        Maybe its a smaller less well known version of the toheroa.
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:14am
      - Swifty
        
        That raises an interesting question.
        
        Just how did pre-contact Maori fund their public interest journalism? Did they leave it to their private sector, solely, or did they mix that with some state intervention of some kind?
        
        Were individuals, families or tribes taxed and those funds redistributed to intrepid journos to hotfoot it around the motu gathering news on current events and producing opinion pieces on tribal and inter-tribal tensions and concerns? How were those opinions and news tidbits then documented and distributed?
        
        All interesting questions. It really would be good to know.
        
        //
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:16am
      - Dave
        
        “… designed to impart the element of undefined mysticism” and culturally inclusive profundity – don’t forget the extra profundity, especially when trite, traditional Maori proverbs precede some lucubration or proposal from a government department.
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:39am
      - Jack5
        
        Ghost’s quote shows Labour has embedded its bribery of the news media for more than two years.
        
        The incoming Government must end this corruption.
        
        Meanwhile, on Red Radio’s “Media Watch” programme this morning, the Leftist media whinged about being shut out of details of Luxon’s coalition talks.
        
        The Leftist media bloc looks to be putting up a post-defeat guerrilla campaign against the new political regime.
        
        The journo’s want to be seen as defenders of democracy, when in fact what’s happening is more of a dying stand by key Leftist allies. The journo’s are out to salvage what they can of Labour’s despicable media bribery.
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018912175/mediawatch-for-22-october-2023
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:51am
      - Ghost
        
        How long will we have a media?
        
        Mediaworks looks like their ship is sinking, fast.
        
        Tv3 is in the shit, but they should be ok, their investors have deep pockets.
        
        Stuff, it seems their digital side of things is what is keeping them barely above water
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:56am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Control language and you control the masses
        
        https://www.quirkyscience.com/control-language/
        
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        October 22, 2023 10:28am
      - Jack5
        
        Ghost’s 9.56: … How long will we have a media?
        
        The Woke-Left have taken over surviving news media, much the same as active Left-wing trade unions were so prominent in the final years of Britain’s once great coal mining industry.
        
        Apart from the internet and technology like smart phones and PC’s, changes in retailing, mainly decline, have knocked local newspapers. It’s been their key income.
        
        NZ, as a long, narrow chain of islands might be an ideal market united by the internet. Leave it to the free market to find a way. That’s what capitalism is good at.
        
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        October 22, 2023 10:35am
      - Jake Dee
        
        Thanks for all the bloggers who informed me that a “tahua” is a gift of food, but although that would have been it’s original meaning, it’s clearly being used as a metaphor or idiom here. very interesting to see that the diversocrats and the iwiocracy are describing government funding as “free food”.
        So, a translation into the vernacular could become something like,
        “The complimentary buffet has now closed but we still have enough on our plates to continue eating until January.”
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:25pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Thanks Ghost. Here’s hoping that the new government shut this down instantly and get rid of all involved in the administration of this political slush fund, including Gabriel Thomas.
    
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    October 22, 2023 8:18am
    - Nickc2
      
      I’ll second that!
      
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      October 22, 2023 8:52am
    - Scott
      
      Part of me wonders whether the new government should play the same game? What about another $150 million public interest journalism fund?
      
      This time though they could fund public interest journalism about such topics as:
      – the benefits of Western civilisation
      – how capitalism has lifted millions of people out of poverty
      – why the two-parent married family leads to the best outcomes for children
      – and my personal favourite – socialism never works and it has failed every time it has been tried. 🙂
      
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      October 22, 2023 9:27am
      - Ruawai
        
        Great idea, the MSM would have to swallow bags of rats.
        
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        October 22, 2023 11:05am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Disagree.
        
        Propaganda is still propaganda when it says something you agree with.
        
        Cease all funding and pass legislation that explicitly prohibits government agencies from funding media channels.
        
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        October 22, 2023 11:35am
      - Paulus
        
        Am I not wrong in that the funds come through New Zealand on Air, as the so called provider ?
        
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        October 22, 2023 1:43pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Subsidies for overseas corporates are now established government policy; movies, forestry and propaganda, any I’ve missed?
    
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    October 22, 2023 8:22am
    - Flossie
      
      Not sure if steel manufacturers comes in that category?
      
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      October 22, 2023 8:29am
    - peterwn
      
      and restoring derelict picture theatres is also Council policy.
      
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      October 22, 2023 9:06am
    - miltonF
      
      Aluminium smelters and Amazon.
      
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      October 22, 2023 4:34pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Most of the time when I see Manglish I just ignore it. If they can’t write in English I don’t want to know, and I don’t want to be programed.
    
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    October 22, 2023 8:47am
- CJames
  
  Warren
  People need to remember that until a new government is formed and sworn in, she is Deputy PM of a caretaker government. that means that in theory at least, what she has to say on a range of issues can be important. After the new government is in, she goes back to being a drone.
  
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  October 22, 2023 9:29am
  - Jethrod
    
    Continue being a drone….
    
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    October 22, 2023 9:59am
NeverMindTheBollocks

I was in Cuba St and Courtenay Pl last night, and it was dark. The new street lighting just does not give off the same light as previous tech. It’s hard to be sure but there do not seem to be as many lights either. If it wasn’t for shop lights, it would be very dark indeed – and where shops are vacant, it was noticeable.

Is it the same in other towns & cities?
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October 22, 2023 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I wouldn’t know. I would never walk through Chistchurch at night these days.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:16am
  - lifesgood
    
    CHCH is bad enough during the day. I was there recently, walked down their fancy new shopping street, groups of intimidating, drunken street people hanging about. Just awful.
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:55am
- sirknz
  
  Batman tells us that criminals are a cowardly & superstitious lot who are afraid of the dark…
  
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  October 22, 2023 9:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  I won’t go near Courtenay Place after dark. It’s a country I do not recognise.
  
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  October 22, 2023 11:37am
Chuck Bird

This is an interesting non-premium article. It tries to suggest that the MSM is more reliable than social media. The case of who caused the explosion at a hospital in Gaza is a good example. The MSM around the world got it wrong and that cost lives.

Zeitgeist: Social media sharing must be for the good of humanity

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/zeitgeist-social-media-sharing-must-be-for-the-good-of-humanity/ZEFQDPP4E5HJNKIJPMRXBLTPSQ/
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October 22, 2023 8:14am
- Doug Fister
  
  Isn’t it telling how the story about the Gaza hospital strike has almost disappeared – quietly – from the MSM now that the only evidence put forward about how it happened was from the IDF and some independent analysts. This completely refuted, and I use the term correctly unlike some people (!) the original accusation by Hamas which was so faithfully repeated immediately by “reputable” news outlets. No wonder they are losing credibility and the eyes and ears of the public.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:29am
  - G152
    
    And I see lights on in every video of those hospitals when they were supposed to have run out of electricity
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:37am
    - Jake Dee
      
      At a guess I would say generators, they would have priority for fuel. Hospitals are the last place you want to go dark.
      
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      October 22, 2023 7:34pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Because the IDF are not imbued with Islamic wonderfulness and do not understand celebrating death ahead of life. I empathise a little with misanthropy, but not DEI as the new god.
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:39am
- Matt Long
  
  The MSM should be asking themselves about adding to the chatter and spreading disinformation.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:45am
  - Matt Long
    
    Speaking of which there may be more to come on the death of innocent civil rights activist, Floyd George. And the whole leftist coup that arose from it.
    https://x.com/BretWeinstein/status/1715652054042206343?s=20
    
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    October 22, 2023 9:11am
    - Swifty
      
      One black man is killed in an incident with US police and there are furious marches all around the Western world, including here in NZ.
      
      Thousands of Israelis are killed and wounded in a mass terror attack and………….crickets.
      
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      October 22, 2023 9:23am
      - tavita
        
        Nor cricket. The protesters come out in support of hamas
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:53am
      - JackRabbit
        
        And thousands on excess deaths in NZ since Feb 2021 and crickets….
        
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        October 22, 2023 10:13am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Quote so, JackRabbit.
        
        Western governments advised by virus pests, odious experts, and in the pockets of Pfizer et al have shown active disinterest in the excess deaths that represent globally unprecedented, black swan events. Likewise their bought and paid for media puppets.
        
        Future generations will look back in horror and ask why, why why. I plan to be listed in the number of those calling our the state-led atrocities from the outset.
        
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        October 22, 2023 11:57am
- rouppe
  
  I’d have thought everything she said was obvious.
  
  But here’s the thing: she’s so young that she has no experience of how msm have spread misinformation.
  
  The Vietnam war was a turning point. Up until then the msm was the voice of the government of the time. During the early years of the war, all the news was “we’re winning, they’re losing. Body count. Tons of bombs dropped”. It was only when injured vets came back and started speaking out, that the pile of body bags became too big to ignore, that the narrative changed.
  
  Move to Desert Storm and personal Gopro footage came into play.
  
  Of course modern tech permits false narratives to propagate more easily. But modern tech is not where false narratives were born.
  
  It shouldn’t come as a surprise to Jessie Gurunathan that she needs to own the shit she says
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:45am
  - Jake Dee
    
    The technology change is important, for the Vietnam war (which the Vietnamese call the American war) the change was broadcast TV.
    Before that we had mass literacy and cheap printing fuel the protestant reformations and French revolutions. Now we have broadband internet.
    I have often though of how many scandals such as the Catholic sex scandals could only have been unmasked by the internet. The old networks of silence, intimidation and shame don’t work if you can spread your story worldwide, anonymously and for free.
    
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    October 22, 2023 7:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  A small bit from that item:
  “Now a widely debunked conspiracy theory about a child-pedophilia ring linked to Hillary Clinton, as ridiculous as it sounds, some people did – and still continue to – believe it.”
  So how come Anthony Bourdain suicided? He was not the type.
  Both Clintons made trips to Epstein Island.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:54am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The control and manipulation of narrative is at unimaginable levels in the world right now.
    
    I doubt it is going to get any better with government control, but this is how such censorship and propaganda is going to be sold to people.
    
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    October 22, 2023 9:02am
  - Inandout
    
    SO, I think Bourdain had led a very troubled existence.
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/anthony-bourdain-death
    
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    October 22, 2023 9:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Some troubled yes. Serious drug problems, but he cleaned himself up.
      One of his favourite sayings “One book, all I did was write one book, and the whole World turned upside down.”
      I have that book – and others.
      I still say someone else did this. Bourdain had a list of high profile pedophiles that he was going to make public. Where is that list now? Asia may know…..
      
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      October 22, 2023 11:45am
      - RichardX
        
        What is your source for “Bourdain had a list of high profile pedophiles that he was going to make public.“
        
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        October 22, 2023 12:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        Bourdain, was not working on a tell all doco on pedophiles, he was a drug attack that suffered depression and that was having relationship problems to the point he was harassing his ex. He was not murdered. There is zero evidence that this was anything other than a suicide.
        
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        October 22, 2023 6:32pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ghost,
        I did not say he was working on a tell tale doc on pedophiles. Where did you get that idea?
        
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        October 23, 2023 9:45am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    There has been a term coined for all of the friends and associates of the clintons who have “committed suicide “.
    
    Its known as “Arkancide”
    
    Usually its two shots to the head from 3m away.
    
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    October 22, 2023 9:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I know the term.
      Nobody has 67+ so called personal friends who Arkancided.
      She is evil.
      
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      October 22, 2023 11:46am
  - Flossie
    
    Steve, may I politely ask how onecdefines The Type who would commit suicide?
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Personality.
      
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      October 22, 2023 11:40am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza
  
  An Israeli Dome defense action on a Gaza fired missile.
  
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  October 22, 2023 9:00am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Algazeera a total disappointment
    
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    October 22, 2023 1:25pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      I would say what Aljazeera chooses to publish is disappointing. ie The Ukrainian/Russian conflict only reports Ukraine point of view.
      
      But I have some sympathy with the accuracy of their reports.
      
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      October 22, 2023 5:11pm
G152

So we now have black coral growing near Kapiti and its been proven that it is genetically the same as the black coral growing in the South Island Sounds.
Some time in the 60s there was a couple of conservation minded divers/pilots based at Paraparaumu who did a trip around the South Island.

Around this time we did a mountain flying weekend {Thanks Paul Legg}
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October 22, 2023 8:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  Another excuse to ban humans from a wider area .
  
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  October 22, 2023 10:37am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not all humans, I think you’ll find
    
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    October 22, 2023 1:19pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      You are right Never.
      I see the newcomer coral news item has already been declared a “taonga”.
      
      I wonder if the rest of the people born in New Zealand will get a say?
      
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      October 22, 2023 2:33pm
Toes on the nose

Co-Governance is sooo cool if you can make it work for you/
Meng starts building seawall- no consent or RMA. Told to stop by council. Ignores notice and keeps building. Says it’s all good cos he ‘contacted the iwi about it’.
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October 22, 2023 8:19am
- John Loveridge
  
  How would Meng have fared here if he had still been Mayor?
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:23pm
sungsamning

https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/10/21/bidens-100b-aid-package-is-dead-on-arrival-says-senator-cotton-n586560

Biden’s 100B Aid Package Is ‘Dead on Arrival’ Says Senator Cotton.
Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) declared that Biden’s $100B aid package for Ukraine, Israel, and domestic security is dead on arrival in the Senate.

Cotton calls it a slush fund and he’s not wrong. The largest disbursement would go to Ukraine. The aid package includes $60B for Ukraine, $14B for Israel, and $14B for the southern border. There is $7.4B for Taiwan and allies in the Indo-Pacific, and $10B for humanitarian aid in Ukraine, Israel, and Gaza. As you see, the amount allocated to Ukraine is disproportionally larger than anything else.
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October 22, 2023 8:49am
- JackRabbit
  
  Biden’s 100B Aid Package will be missing on arrival.
  
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  October 22, 2023 10:16am
  - Ghost
    
    If he had of left Ukraine out of it, made it for Israel, it would have been approved. He knew adding Ukraine to it that it wouldn’t be approved, the republicans want that tap turned off.
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  This is not a funding package for Ukraine, Israel or any other named party.
  
  If is a back-scratching gift of public money* for the US military industrial complex
  
  *fresh of the fiat money ponzi scheme printer, and ready to inflate away what little wealth American’s still believe they possess.
  
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  October 22, 2023 12:03pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EruQlCcP-Co
The DEATH BLOW Landed.
Under Xi Jinping, China has purged millions of low and high-level officials from the government and the Chinese Communist Party. And now he’s taken down another one—Evergrande found Hui Ka Yan. This come almost two years after Evergrande, which was arguably China’s largest property developer, started defaulting on its debts. In this episode of China Uncensored, we look at why Xi might have gone after Hui Ka Yan now, how Evergrande’s fall kicked off a housing market meltdown, and how this purge could be related to Xi Jinping’s arch nemesis Jiang Zemin. [7:55]
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October 22, 2023 8:50am
Matt Long

Today I found that New Zealand and Israel have indeed practiced genocide, no , not a slaughter of people to wipe out a race or religion but a leftist definition.
https://t.co/RXiFqNHKOm
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October 22, 2023 8:52am
- Swifty
  
  You mean like the genocide of the trans people that is happening in NZ daily?
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/05/05/anti-trans-hate-in-nz-becoming-genocidal-disinformation-project/
  
  Thank heavens we’ve got The Disinformation Project here and ready to bring this to our attention. We might not have noticed otherwise.
  
  //
  
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  October 22, 2023 9:06am
  - Taieri
    
    Thank heavens we’ve got The Disinformation Project
    ———–
    
    Understanding why are those fucking (and I don’t use the “f” word lightly) parasites being funded by the taxpayer is beyond my powers of comprehension…
    
    https://keywiki.org/Kate_Hannah
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:15am
    - Jake Dee
      
      Thanks for pointing that one out. We are now in a situation where even debating a sub-culture or clique’s self-definition has become genocide. exactly how you can genocide something that isn’t even a genus is just ignored.
      As usual the Disinformation Project won’t eat from its own kitchen or even smell its own laundry.
      BTW I’m still looking for some solid information on The Disinformation Project, such as who funds them, how they were selected and if they have any sort of charter, terms of reference or ministerial oversight.
      Can any Kiwibloggers help me out on this ?
      
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      October 22, 2023 8:01pm
      - Ghost
        
        I asked bing chat
        
        The Disinformation Project is an independent group that studies misinformation and disinformation in Aotearoa New Zealand. They provide research and guidance to a range of organizations, as well as publishing findings on disinformation and its impacts. The project is funded by the New Zealand government
        
        I asked Google bard
        
        The New Zealand Disinformation Project is funded by a variety of sources, including:
        
        New Zealand government: The New Zealand government has provided funding to the Disinformation Project through the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) and InternetNZ, the country’s internet governance body.
        
        Philanthropic organizations: The Disinformation Project has also received funding from philanthropic organizations, such as the New Zealand Law Foundation and the Vodafone Foundation.
        Individuals: The Disinformation Project also accepts donations from individuals.
        In addition to its core funding, the Disinformation Project also undertakes commissioned research and consultancy work for a variety of clients, including government agencies, media organizations, and businesses.
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:10pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Thank you for your timely work. Or should I thank the A.I. bots? (The A.I. is your friend! All praise the machine!).
        So, it’s a quango run and funded directly from the Prime Minister’s office. The office which, probably not coincidentally also run and direct the NZSIS and GCSB. I do not think I’m being too far out conspiratorial when I see a deep state network of bureaucrats, technocrats and spooks operating from behind opaque walls of charitable foundations and international NGOs.
        The Vodaphone foundation is particularly interesting. My new best buddy Mr. Bing Chat bot tells me,
        “The Vodafone Foundation was founded in 1991 with a simple mission to invest in the communities in which Vodafone operates. The foundation is dedicated to deploying connectivity and technology to deliver long-term, sustainable benefits for vulnerable communities around the world. The foundation is funded by Vodafone Group Plc, which is also its principal funder for projects around the world that are run in partnership with other charitable organizations and NGOs. However, I could not find any information on who founded the Vodafone Foundation.”
        
        So that’s the charitable arm of a telecommunications giant based in the UK that operates in 27 countries worldwide. There is simply no way that it doesn’t have deep ties to internal security and counterintelligence agencies.
        I wonder if any work done by The Disinformation Project is subject to judicial review, or if any of their internal paperwork on budgets, salaries, hiring policies or operating guidelines is subject to the Official Information Act?
        That could be an interesting rabbit hole to journey down. Even a denial would be illuminating.
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:59pm
      - Ghost
        
        I believe the new PM needs to look into the actions and funding that was carried out by the DPMC. Also to openly state that his government will not be funding the disinformation project. It appears the podium of truth was financing hit squads to go after anything that didn’t support the leaders propaganda.
        
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        October 22, 2023 9:23pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    It was useful for the socialists to name the Disinformation Project thus; it enables us to know immediately that it is the exact opposite of what it’s purported to be.
    
    In the same way that when North Korea called itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea we knew it was neither democratic nor of the people, and is far from a republic, the Disinformation Project is responsible for promulgating disinformation rather than calling it out.
    
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    October 22, 2023 11:53am
- cmm
  
  By that definition, the police commit genocide against gangs – except the last 6 years.
  
  19 0
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  October 22, 2023 9:19am
  - Matt Long
    
    Yeah, but now we can call for the destruction of Israel because they practice genocide.
    And Tariana can say with a straight face 5hat her people are the victims of genocide.
    
    13 0
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    October 22, 2023 9:23am
    - Matt Long
      
      I’m not sure if the left are going to decry the genocide against small businesses, farmers and the whole middle classes though.
      
      14 0
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      October 22, 2023 9:25am
  - kevn
    
    cmm..
    A 501 gets to the World Cup. Must have sold the Harley?
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/alleged-mangere-rebels-mc-boss-ray-elise-won-legal-bid-to-travel-to-france-for-the-rugby-world-cup/SPMIGONOB5ADZKBQLBV3PYW3AY/
    
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    October 22, 2023 10:26am
    - Ghost
      
      That’s great, a week or two he won’t be committing crimes here. A Google of his name and you have to wonder reading all the news articles why he is not in jail
      
      12 0
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      October 22, 2023 10:39am
      - cmm
        
        He is a boss. He still has email etc to direct his underlings.
        
        4 0
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        October 22, 2023 4:37pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      How did he manage to get a visa for the Schengen Area?
      
      6 0
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      October 22, 2023 1:22pm
      - fernglas
        
        New Zealand citizens don’t need a visa for Schengen. You get 90 days under the visa waiver system.
        
        4 0
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        October 22, 2023 6:01pm
Swifty

Allah Akbar, innit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BXTMK4e6i0I
6 2
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October 22, 2023 9:01am
Close Hen Counters

It was great to see that the folks at Auckland International Airport have put in the hard yards to make coming home a breeze – bags came out quickly (cattle class travellers not business!) and if you have a NZ/Aus passport with nothing to declare … tiny queue, straight through, wee beagle sniff and out! Not so great for overseas travellers though 😢 taxi driver was an eye opener though – cab from one of Aucks biggest taxi firms, we were told fare was $65 to home, meter not on. When we arrived home, taxi driver expected cash payment and when only offered credit card, cranked up the price with additional fees – bloody dodgy
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October 22, 2023 9:09am
- Inandout
  
  CHC, if possibe, get rellies to pick you up from airport.
  
  12 0
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  October 22, 2023 9:31am
- Dougal10
  
  You should have caught jacindas train//
  
  18 0
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  October 22, 2023 10:24am
  - lifesgood
    
    Corporate cabs all the way, trustworthy, Sparkling clean with well groomed drivers and they don’t rip you off.
    
    8 0
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    October 22, 2023 12:38pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Yes, happened to me twice now in Auckland.
  
  Much safer, and cheaper to use Uber. Or Corporate Cabs.
  
  None of the standard companies are trustworthy anymore
  
  Not sure what the Taxi companies are trying to prove being this obviously bent.
  
  Used to be you could report a dodgy one to NZTA or Transport, but I guess they are too busy getting their pronouns correct and coming up with the Maori word for pothole?
  
  19 0
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  October 22, 2023 10:51am
  - sirknz
    
    How about ‘whakakataia’ for pothole?
    
    15 0
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    October 22, 2023 11:27am
    - Debsta
      
      Excellent sir!
      
      5 0
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      October 22, 2023 3:14pm
- sungsamning
  
  I guess Uber aren’t allowed at the airport. Frankly with them being a thing; I’m surprised any taxi companies still exist.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:18pm
pdm

An impertinent question for anyone else watching the England v Bok semi final borefest..

Do you think Owen Farrell knows the name of Englands second five?
15 0
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October 22, 2023 9:40am
- Gravelroad
  
  Dunno.
  Have stopped watching as boring and dreary game.
  Only decent one is the referee.
  
  9 0
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  October 22, 2023 9:48am
  - pdm
    
    Game over and I think the right result with a Boks win.
    
    Not sure we are good enough to beat them next week.
    
    10 8
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    October 22, 2023 10:02am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Course we are.
      
      15 0
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      October 22, 2023 10:29am
      - lifesgood
        
        Watch out for the food poisoning!
        
        6 1
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        October 22, 2023 10:59am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @lifesgood @ 10:59AM
        
        Groan. Oh, lifesgood, it’s Paris 2023, not Johannesburg 1995!
        
        1 1
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        October 22, 2023 3:49pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Last time I checked we beat them regularly.
      
      7 0
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      October 22, 2023 10:42am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Its impossible to compare previous teams actions. Loss/Wins
        Different players and coaches.
        
        The only commonality is their team names.
        
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        October 22, 2023 5:18pm
    - SmokerGuy
      
      I think it’ll be difficult, we don’t quite have that mental toughness they have. And their coaches are better, they proved that today. But I think we have a better team on paper, it’ll be very close.
      
      9 2
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      October 22, 2023 10:51am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Course we are, and I’M GOING TO BE IN THE STADIUM TO SEE IT!
      
      12 0
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      October 22, 2023 11:56am
      - Colville
        
        If the same Bokke team turns up next weekend we will romp home. They were terrible.
        
        6 0
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        October 22, 2023 1:00pm
- James Stephenson
  
  How come everyone bags England for pragmatic rugby, yet SA have won the tournament three times playing exactly that way and nobody cares?
  
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  October 22, 2023 4:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Secret Fascists.

https://babylonbee.com/video/warning-signs-that-you-are-a-fascist
12 2
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October 22, 2023 9:56am
rouppe

Full cctv footage from the Grace Milane trial.

What a piece of work…
8 0
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October 22, 2023 9:59am
- mogg
  
  Bring back the rope.
  
  4 1
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  October 22, 2023 1:55pm
SmokerGuy

It worries me that South Africa can play badly in a World Cup game but still win. I think they have a mental edge over us, they should be favourites for next weekend’s game. I don’t think watching that game is going to be a pleasant experience, I’m already nervous!!!!
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October 22, 2023 10:45am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  At least we won’t have to contend with Farrell’s dropped goals.
  
  5 0
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  October 22, 2023 10:58am
- greybeard
  
  England were depending too much on penalties, and never seemed interested in scoring tries. They rely too much on their forwards , hoping to dominate the opposition and frustrate them into errors.
  And their blatant time-wasting, waterboys, etc was disgusting: a good ref would put an end to it.
  I also thought SA looked rudderless, especially in the first half: they were all over the place.
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:02pm
- rouppe
  
  They clearly had the wrong team on at the start.
  
  The whole game shifted when they brought on replacements
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:31pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I doubt very much they have a mental edge over the All Blacks. We’ve played them 5 times in World Cups and won 3, We’ve also won 62 tests vs their 39,
  
  Notwithstanding all of that, it’s a one-off match and statistics and history are meaningless. England showed that with a dull grinding performance from a third-rate team that still nearly got the job done. We’re not a third-rate team.
  
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  October 22, 2023 8:22pm
BeaB

Those besotted propagandists for Labour like Jessica and Jenna are already riled by Luxon’s refusal to spill all his secrets. For those of us who watched the media eagerly operating as Arden’s PR machine, it is hilarious but also a bit sad they are now bleating about democracy and their sacred role serving the public.
They were a complicit arm of the Labour government and many of us will never ever respect them or their crony cartoonists.
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October 22, 2023 10:46am
- Swifty
  
  Well said BeaB.
  
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  October 22, 2023 5:29pm
- kowtow
  
  Karl du Fresne blog examines this well .
  
  or as Cpl Jones would say “They don’t like it up ’em”.
  
  6 0
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  October 22, 2023 6:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How difficult is it for Government Departments to communicate with each other?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/500742/disappearing-dotterel-nests-defence-force-implicated
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October 22, 2023 11:03am
Ghost

I have been watching this channel the past week EXPLORE WITH US

The kids on on the channel are chilling. 14 Year old boy who describes without any remorse murdering his friend in the school toilet and how he wanted to murder his other friend as well

Two boys who document on camera in school how they are going to murder two girls

A different channel had The Interrogation of Col. Russell Williams, watching that was just great to see the cop just slowly getting the information out of him

Forgot Nicholas Browning who murdered is two brothers and parents.

But damn, these kids are bloody shocking.
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October 22, 2023 11:04am
- Hollyfield
  
  That channel, and others like it, are very interesting. It’s horrifying what some kids can do, and in some cases there were no signs but in others the signs were there but overlooked. The way the interrogators can be so gentle when questioning the kids, to eventually get to the truth, is incredible. These two I found particularly heartbreaking:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eVTk_2zcaA – two girls who stabbed their friend (one girl schizophrenic but the other one just swept up in it)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZTRNp715Mo – a boy who killed his brother and then faced his grandmother in the interrogation room, the grandmother lost both her grandsons that day.
  
  If you particularly like the Col. Russell Williams interview, this channel analyses the techniques and skills of the interrogator:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOXIe-WXi0Y.
  
  5 1
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  October 22, 2023 11:57am
  - Ghost
    
    Thanks, I tried to watch the 12 year old schizophrenic last night, but damn I struggled with her, she was just doing my head in
    
    8 0
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    October 22, 2023 12:26pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Why would anyone watch this stuff? Sounds sensationalist.
      
      6 0
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      October 22, 2023 12:40pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ghost watches everything. He has time.
        After all, he is a ghost.//
        🙂
        
        1 0
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        October 22, 2023 6:34pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Why would you watch this garbage and give them the oxygen to do it all over again?
        4.7 million viewers…… @#$%&÷ ,!
        
        1 0
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        October 22, 2023 6:39pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        I understand your feelings but apart from the sensationalism I think there are good reasons to look at the darker side of the human experience. Even in NZ there are real snakes in the grass, Best to know about them, what they look like and what they can do. Forewarned is forearmed.
        
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        October 22, 2023 8:05pm
Yvette

David Seymour, Chlöe Swarbrick clash over James Shaw’s comments on treaty referendum as Christopher Luxon dubs it ‘divisive’, ‘unhelpful’

Seymour, the ACT party leader, campaigned on ending co-governance and for New Zealand to re-think the Treaty of Waitangi. In the late stages of the campaign trail he told Whakaata Māori the referendum is a non-negotiable’.

Luxon is standing by the position National made during the campaign that “we think it [a referendum] is divisive and it would be unhelpful. So again, we’ll get our way through those issues with the respective parties”.

“What he was saying was, if you look at the trajectory of those conversations and the type of rhetoric that tends to come forward from an oversimplified binary does divide people,” Swarbrick said.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/david-seymour-chl-e-swarbrick-clash-over-james-shaw-s-comments-on-treaty-referendum-as-christopher-luxon-dubs-it-divisive-unhelpful.html?

■ Why is Winston Peters dubbed “the kingmaker”?
Why, on the issue of the proposed referendum, should David Seymour not become the kingmaker?
He could tell Luxon that the proposed referendum is agreed to or Act will take the opposition position which Seymour had eluded to twice in his Election campaign.
Why is the only Winston the kingmaker, with the supposed power which that confers?

■ And the promotion around the proposed referendum should display a little more common sense intelligence than Chlöe Swarbrick’s “oversimplified binary does divide people”
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October 22, 2023 11:06am
- Taieri
  
  Combining intelligence and Chlöe Swarbrick in one sentence is an oxymoron.
  
  21 2
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  October 22, 2023 11:29am
  - kevn
    
    Tai… She was mart enought to bail on kiri.
    
    5 1
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    October 22, 2023 2:12pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Chloe swings both ways, doncha know. Oversimplified binary is not her thing.
  
  9 0
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  October 22, 2023 1:26pm
- leoj
  
  Let’s see how brave Seymour really is.
  
  If he fails to live up to this one promise, he’s toast.
  
  Milquetoast Luxon certainly doesn’t have the balls to set the country on the correct path re the maori takeover.
  
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  October 22, 2023 3:29pm
krazykiwi

Biden in 2020: His “Not one foot” speech about a Mexico border wall, while the media wailed and gnashed their teeth about the Orange Man’s suggestion that a wall might be a good idea.

Biden in 2023: His administration has waived 26 environmental and cultural regulations to speed construction of 20 miles of what it euphemistically calls a “border barrier system” in Starr County, Texas.
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October 22, 2023 12:28pm
- lifesgood
  
  Bit like the endless protests by the numb skilled Labour supporters here against the TTP. And, oh lookee, Labour gets in and suddenly it’s all OK. Scum, that’s what the left are.
  
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  October 22, 2023 12:45pm
  - miltonF
    
    Exactly. Hypocritical scum liars. It’s always OK when the left do it. Probably the only consistent aspect of the left’s principles.
    
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    October 22, 2023 6:12pm
Ipanema69

With respect to the formation of the new government. Does anyone for a second think that Winston will not take a call from Chippy if the specials go againt NAT/ACT?
8 1
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October 22, 2023 12:55pm
thetiedarch

Seriously, what dirt does Kiri Allan have on one of the editors at the Herald? It’s been one week since the election and we’ve had two puff piece articles about someone who had to resign in disgrace from parliament! One article about her new consultancy (Ha!), and now one about her new life and planned book.

What the hell is so interesting about this drop kick, failure of an MP that it warrants such attention???
28 1
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October 22, 2023 1:05pm
- kevn
  
  Thetie… Might be an interesting chapter on the Urewera raids episode.
  
  7 1
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  October 22, 2023 2:16pm
  - fernglas
    
    Why? She had nothing to do with it, did she?
    
    1 0
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    October 22, 2023 6:08pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      She helped with some of the legal appeals I think
      
      One Maori activist, Mauriora, Kiritapu Allan Co–Director of the Non-Governmental Organization, Conscious Collaborations, has publicly stated:
      “The Police showed up at my house with files of my activities over years, my phones have been tapped for years, my house under surveillance and everything subject to their review. We have not been involved in any activities that could allow the police to make these claims and the distress they are causing for our families and children is devastating.
      
      Kiritapu Allan Co – Director, Conscious Collaborations
      http://www.conscious.maori.nz/
      
      https://nationtalk.ca/story/urgent-appeal-raids-and-arrests-against-maori-by-the-new-zealand-government
      
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      October 22, 2023 8:30pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone see on Outsiders this morning the talk about the supporters of the butchers of Hamas around the civilized world?

The homosexual ones in Labour and the Greens are hard to figure our for obvious reasons.
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October 22, 2023 1:20pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The Ricardos and Chloes of this world think they are untouchable. They are the useful idiots that supported Stalin etc pre war.
  
  Looking at the “demos” in the UK they have a major problem in front of them.
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:42pm
  - Inandout
    
    fight, they wouldn’t last 5 minutes on the streets of Gaza. Their sheer stupidity seems to be boundless.
    
    13 2
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    October 22, 2023 2:07pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The left, societies underachievers, are locked in permanent support of anyone they perceive as a loser or an underdog.
  
  It’s part of evolution – adult underachievers and teenagers have most to potentially gain from chaos of overthrowing existing social order – consciously or unconsciously judging that they might end up further up the hierarchy in whatever system comes next if they support the revolution.
  
  That was a reasonable calculus in that long lost days of hunter gatherer tribal politics where aside from a few deaths everything continued basically as usual, which is why evolution molded that behavior, but in technologic nation-state world is now obsolete and bad instinctual programming as revolutions make 99.99% of everyone worse off.
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:50pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Good points. This sounds like the “Biolenism” theory of the pseudonymous blogger “Spandrel”, that’s worth checking out. Basically a revolutionary Leninist can weld together a coalition of disaffected outsiders to overthrow the system. They have nothing in common except their hatred of society but you can be sure of their loyalty because they have nowhere else to go.
    
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    October 22, 2023 8:12pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  FYI
  
  ‘Wrong side of history’: Democrats blasted for loss of ‘moral compass’ on Israel
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ZF45XYEvs
  
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  October 22, 2023 1:59pm
Chuck Bird

Does anyone agree with Gerry Brownlee’s position that Israel should stop trying to eliminate Hamas and start negotiating with this terrorist group?

The National Party will not support a motion proposed by the Green Party regarding the current violence between Israel and the Palestine Authority (Hamas), National’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson Gerry Brownlee says.

The Green Party is proposing a motion for Parliament to recognise and support the right of Palestine to self-determination and statehood and recognise the state of Palestine.

“National’s position has consistently been in favour of the two state system,” Mr Brownlee says.

“Despite the failure of talks over many years to achieve this, we are firmly of the view that it is the best solution to the extraordinary violence that has for a long time and currently is afflicting both Israelis and Arabs on the two sides of the argument.

“It is our position that the two sides need to desist from the current violent engagement and get back to the table on talks that could lead to this two state solution that with commitment from both could bring peace to both states.”

https://www.national.org.nz/national-opposes-greens-motion-on-israeli-palestinian-conflict
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October 22, 2023 1:57pm
- Littletramp
  
  It would probably help if the USA would stop funding both sides (Israel & Muslim Brotherhood) to keep the conflict going.
  The Arab worlds know this and we should open our eyes & keep as far away from this as possible.
  We should do what Egypt & Jordan & the Saudis have done & leave the yanks to clean up their own mess.
  
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  October 22, 2023 2:07pm
- Matt Long
  
  No, I’m constantly surprised by the people who rate Brownlee, this is what I would expect from him.
  
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  October 22, 2023 2:29pm
- Ghost
  
  Politicians should always be seeking peace, not sending innocent people off to die in wars. It should be our position in conflict to get all sides to peace negotiations.
  
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  October 22, 2023 2:40pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Sometimes you have to fight. Particularly when dealing with supremacists with implacably hostile beliefs, even more so when they believe death is a good thing – they are not sane and cannot be trusted with the increasingly dangerous weapons available in the world. A death cult armed with nukes is a worst case scenario that we are now having to deal with.
    
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    October 22, 2023 3:45pm
    - Ghost
      
      Yeah, there are times where war is unavoidable but even then you should always want the politicians working for peace not war. Working for a way to end the fighting.
      
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      October 22, 2023 3:55pm
- rouppe
  
  Pretty sure Israel has at least once gone to the table with a 2 state solution, that the Palestinians rejected because conditional on the agreement was the declaration that the state of Israel had the right to exist, and that Palestinians had to denounce their started aim of eliminating Jews.
  
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  October 22, 2023 3:16pm
- cmm
  
  Israel have tried countless times to make peace deals but they have not worked because Hamas etc al have a one-line mission statement: elimination of Israel.
  
  Brownlee is being a fool.
  
  9 1
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  October 22, 2023 4:42pm
  - kowtow
    
    What Hamas ( and Iran ) did in southern Israel is beyond negotiating “peace” over.
    
    Having read what those terrorists did there and were sent in there deliberately to do , you don’t negotiate wirth people who seek to literally wipe you off the face of the earth , through rape ,torture , mutilation in front of your family , beheading and other extreme misogynist violence.
    Hamas is akin to a cancer that must be exterminated.
    
    Brownlee is an idiot.
    
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    October 22, 2023 6:31pm
NothingLeft

Eric Weinstein and Sam Harris discussing Gaza with the Triggernometry guys. Interesting insights and suggestions you won’t find elsewhere. https://youtu.be/Xkg3C8JDi_0
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October 22, 2023 1:59pm
Paulus

Today, en passant, I saw a Newspaper headline –
“Who is really behind Luxon’s success ?”
An article by the nemeses Andrea Vance.
It was her portrayal of the Professional people behind the recent success of both National, and Luxon as its Leader.
Since then I have considered the question after a good walk and coffee.
And I came to another possible answer and it is something like we have to thank the left wing feminist media such as Vance, and her so colleagues, like Tova, as an example and the eight or so others who without their vitriol would not revived the voters as to what they and the Ardern Government have achieved.
They tried very hard to divide the country Socially, Financially, and equally more important Ethnically – which includes specifically the great divide now between men and women of New Zealand.
So these so called media people now trying hard to continue the divide our country are going to find it hard to destroy what some of us see as a great country despite the disgraceful aspects left by them and the outgoing Government.
Your vitriol has helped us get rid of a small part of left wing Socialism no matter how hard you continue. Thank You !
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October 22, 2023 2:10pm
- ISeeRed
  
  LOL Talk about a self own.
  
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  October 22, 2023 3:46pm
- tavita
  
  Paulus this is presumably the companion piece to the one Vance wrote yesterday analyzing why Labour lost the election. I wouldn’t have bothered reading it, but having listened to Rodney’s Rant about Tova and how she totally misread the room, I thought I would check it out. The lead-in reason for failure was cited as the fact that Steph here in Wanganui didn’t get the signs out in time. I read the whole thing. No mention of 3 waters/ co-governance, calling everyone who disagreed with them racist. No reference to failure to deliver. Apparently, many people hated Jacinda. No I don’t think so. Realized she was totally vacuous and incompetent maybe. Vance can’t distinguish between valid criticism and abuse. If what members of the Labour Party told Vance are their true understanding of why they are on the street they will be there for a long time because they will continue to make the same mistakes.
  
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  October 22, 2023 6:00pm
rouppe

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2023/10/detroit-synagogue-leader-samantha-woll-found-stabbed-to-death-outside-home.html

A motive for the killing is not yet known, police said. The department said the case had been assigned to its homicide unit for investigation.

Seriously? No clue as to the motive?
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October 22, 2023 3:24pm
- Ghost
  
  I’d follow the police chief’s andvice and let them do their work.
  
  “Understandably, this crime leaves many unanswered questions,” White said. “This matter is under investigation, and I am asking that everyone remain patient while investigators carefully examine every aspect of the available evidence.”
  
  He asked the community for patience as authorities investigate.
  
  “It is important that no conclusions be drawn until all of the available facts are reviewed,” said White, adding officials plan to release additional information about the investigation on Sunday.
  
  Article
  
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  October 22, 2023 3:48pm
  - Swifty
    
    Agreed.
    
    I’ll never forget when great numbers of US lefties, many on prime time tv, who screamed and pulled at their clothes about Jussie Smollet, calling the country a racist, white-supremacist shithole etc etc – for them to later look like absolute dopes and fools when it all came out as a planned hoax.
    
    Let’s see what comes out of the investigation.
    
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    October 22, 2023 5:26pm
  - rouppe
    
    Sure.
    
    I’ll just say that significant experience has shown that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
    
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    October 22, 2023 7:25pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaneel-lal-vote-splitting-was-death-knell-for-labour-as-government/IRRJ3GV7G5FJTAGKCTEW3NEHWE/

Everyones favourite they/them is at it again.
9 1
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October 22, 2023 3:45pm
- Swifty
  
  Lal comes dangerously close to unwittingly admitting he doesn’t understand how MMP works. He writes about the idea that Labour/Green vote splitting cost them multiple electorate seat wins thereby allowing National a clear path through the middle and that this cost them the election.
  
  Does he not understand that it is the party vote which determines the number of seats a party receives and that the number of seats therefore determines which party(ies) can form a majority?
  
  Maybe Shaneel should stick to his knitting.
  
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  October 22, 2023 4:25pm
- Ghost
  
  I’m surprised Lal wasn’t standing for the greens, guess next time. Would make a good choice for greens leader can be both the male and female leader……
  
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  October 22, 2023 4:39pm
  - kevn
    
    androgynous leader… yep, that would cover the green bases.
    
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    October 22, 2023 5:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Who has the bucket now? Empty it and pass it on please.
  
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  October 22, 2023 6:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“The Obama and Biden Regime have been infiltrating our Government for a long time. Kash speaks with Bannon about the Iranian infiltration.”
It is a video in this Trump numbers stuff. Seems Biden Administration has infiltrators that the media are not talking about.

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/trump-surges-ahead-of-biden-in-five-crucial-swing-states-reveals-new-poll/?
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October 22, 2023 3:57pm
Chuck Bird

I just heard so-called expert Robert Patman on NewstalkZB. He came close to supporting the Hamas Butchers. How does he think Israel can defend itself without killing non-Hamas Palastines?
10 1
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October 22, 2023 4:14pm
Ghost

I’m sure everyone is eagerly awaiting Jacinda’s book being released and going straight into the bargain bin at the warehouse. Great news. It will have company from Kiri Allan

She also revealed she’s contracted to write a book for Penguin Publishers.

Article
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October 22, 2023 5:08pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’d love to see the book advance figure, end even more so to see how the publisher funded that advance.
  
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  October 22, 2023 5:22pm
  - miltonF
    
    Wouldn’t we all. I think we all know this book is going to flop and make a huge loss. I think we all suspect alternative reasons for this deal.
    
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    October 22, 2023 6:17pm
- Nickc2
  
  …and the title of the book will be: ‘How I (we) Fucked New Zealand‘ with special Chapters by Chris Hipkins, Grant Robertson, and the Maori Caucus.
  
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  October 22, 2023 5:25pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… The books can be put on the same bottom shelf as harrys effort.
  
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  October 22, 2023 5:25pm
jon

Interesting to note that the Polish general election was held last weekend. Already the Polish National Electoral Commission has posted a FINAL vote count. Contrast to the unsatisfactory situation in NZ where our electoral commisssion, because of the large number of special votes involved will not be able to post the FINAL vote count until the 3rd November. Installation of the new govt has been delayed. Questions need to be asked and remedies sought over this, for future elections.
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October 22, 2023 5:35pm
- Ghost
  
  Here is a good article about the time between the election and the final results and the scrutinising of each vote that takes place in the final count
  
  Why will it take so long for New Zealand to know its full election results?
  
  I have no problem waiting 3 weeks while they go through this
  
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  October 22, 2023 5:51pm
  - Matt Long
    
    I agree with you, I do question what appears an excessive number of special votes, at 20% of the total.
    
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    October 22, 2023 7:31pm

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