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October 25, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 October 2023

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General Debate

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Swifty

An excellent, recent and longish interview on a number of current political and economic matter with Bill English.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXPPzMgDwo

Really worth a watch. Such a contrast to the light, vague, ineffectual garbage we’ve been spoon fed these last six years.

The contrast is stark.
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October 25, 2023 8:08am
- crikey
  
  Thank you Swifty for the link. A well spent 30 minutes listening to the man who was the brains behind the John Key government at a crucial time when the country needed someone like him. I hope his influence continues somehow into this new coalition government.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:27am
  - Swifty
    
    I saw reportage last week of the fact that he and Joyce have already been brought in to present to National MPs on how to run their portfolios well and effectively, set and maintain priorities, overcome obstacles, how to best manage the civil service etc etc.
    
    Can only be a good thing.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:46am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Bill English as well
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:25pm
      - Jack5
        
        Yes, thank you Swifty for the pointer to the Bill English interview.
        
        Good opinion, and an intelligent interviewer.
        
        I liked English’s point that banks and the rest of the credit system had drifted into avoiding risk rather than managing risk.
        
        Also that if progress wasn’t made on housing, after the 2026 general election NZ would get a wealth tax and capital gains tax.
        
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        October 25, 2023 1:09pm
      - Gravelroad
        
        Well, hate to bring this up so late in the day, but I have read on here multiple times over the years that Mr Winston Peters can’t stand Bill English under any circumstances.
        And that a big part of his reason for picking Ms Ardern and her fellow travellers in 2017, was to stick it up English, get even etc etc.
        So are we now going to believe that’s all over and he will go into a coalition with NACT if asked?
        More likely to be Labour , wouldn’t it?
        And I don’t believe for a minute that Hipkins, or some other Labour drone, would not beg him to help them out in coalition if the price was right (or left).
        
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        October 25, 2023 6:50pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Gravelroad’s Left-wing coalition suggestion (6.50 post) ….
        
        On current result of election and taking Gravelroad’s suggestion of a Peters deal with Labour:
        
        National plus Act: 61 seats.
        Labour plus Greens plus NZ First plus Maori Party: 60 seats.
        
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        October 25, 2023 8:28pm
  - peterwn
    
    Nicola Willis was a National Party Parliamentary staffer who worked closely with Bill English and John Key (until she went to Fonterra to broaden her life and work experience). And she believes in the approach Bill English was taking with welfare (until Labour destroyed much of the good work). So Bill’s influence through Nicola and other current MP’s who worked with Bill.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:03am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      What needs to be done is budget every cent of the dole or even solo mother benefit Neil all bills are paid, Neil that is done it will simply require more and more
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:30pm
    - artemisia
      
      Still hear now and again about how terrible Ruth Richardson’s MOAB was by cutting benefits. Of course her plan was to make sure it was not more lucrative to stay on the sofa than actually head out to work every day.
      
      The UK now limits one of the tax credits to 2 children. They also trialed a few ‘rubber rooms’ where those on benefit were required to turn up for a few hours a day. For help in applying for jobs, inter alia. An immediate decrease in beneficiaries, as some found they could not work under the table if they had to turn up to the rubber room.
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Reward Gangs for good behaviour.
You can’t make this shit up. I got an idea, put the bastards in jail, that is what jails are for. No room, built some more. Remove these parasites from the community.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/%C5%8Dp%C5%8Dtiki-mongrel-mob-and-black-power-crackdown-billy-macfarlane-snr-suggests-rewarding-gangs-for-good-behaviour/ar-AA1iM1N9?
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October 25, 2023 8:11am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Groan. “Rehabilitation expert”. Here’s the thing Billy, society EXPECTS good behaviour. Bad behaviour gets punished. It’s laughable that an “expert” wants to reward adults as if they are small kids. How about you do your job? You know, the one you are an “expert” in? Rehabilitating twats who have been banged up because of bad behaviour. FFS.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:19am
  - backster
    
    Maybe they could be offered KFC.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:52am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Oh they will, just not yet. They’ve learned that if they smash the place up, assault guards, break into the ceiling and get on the roof, they’ll get lots of attention and plenty of KFC.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:10am
- Nickc2
  
  WTF, we reward gangs now, don’t we?
  We give em money for drug rehab with no strings attached and we also reward them by not putting them in Jail don’t we?
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:21am
- cmm
  
  There would be enough space if prison was made a bit less fun so the recidivism rate went down.
  
  When you have the highest recidivism rate in the world, then your prison system clearly does not work. Time to learn from people who have very low recidivism rates.
  
  The Japanese are onto it: they create a very structured system where is is very obvious that the inmates are not running the prison. Some Westerners think it harsh and an affront to human rights etc, but I hardly see anything that is nearly as harsh as I had during basic training (aka bootcamp).
  
  Still, good luck trying to get what is needed done in NZ. Nobody seems to have the stomach to do what is required. Nope, not even Act.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Human rights? Nope, they lose those rights as soon as they commit the crime. There are of course those who can not stand up for themselves so they commit crimes to get the State to babysit them.
    Just leeches.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:46am
    - cmm
      
      I agree with you. Unfortunately far too many believe hugs can fix crims.
      
      They don’t realise that everyone is always making a cost benefit analysis as they go through life – including criminals.
      
      If you want to stop crime then you have to make it more less rewarding to commit crimes. One of the ways to do that is to make prison less fun.
      
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      October 25, 2023 8:53am
    - mawm
      
      One needs to differentiate between human rights and civil rights. There is a tendency to call the latter the former by the wailing masses.
      
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      October 25, 2023 9:11am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Cmm,
    
    There’s plenty of room in prison .
    Get rid of the private room with ensuite and tv model and put four to a cell with theoretical 6hrs each access to the bed.
    
    I would say we wouldn’t see too many returning.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:52am
    - peterwn
      
      Usually the only en suite is a vandal proof stainless steel combined wash basin toilet unit. These make things easier for the guards than slop buckets. I am all for TV’s in cells that show educational and uplifting programmes.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:10am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I know that. I helped build them. The point being the convenience of the convenience
        
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        October 25, 2023 3:08pm
  - andrew davies
    
    There is only one person who can rehabilitate you and that is yourself.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:11am
    - gravedodger
      
      Yes Andrew but until a person realises they are the problem the process will not begin, while the huggers are telling them “it is not your fault” that will not happen.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:49am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The huggers are part of the problem!
        
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        October 25, 2023 7:22pm
  - Kiwiguy
    
    Can we outsource our prisons to the Japanese?
    They wouldn’t stand any nonsense.
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:55pm
- Gravelroad
  
  There would need to be a clear definition of what “good behaviour” means.
  More state funded pocket money every week?
  A new gold plated motor bike issued after six months of “good behaviour” – as monitored and adjudged by?
  How come our justice system is so weak and passive that certain sections of society can put themselves above the laws that the rest of us are required to abide by?
  All this does is compromise the integrity of the system.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:26am
  - kowtow
    
    Our te media pardy could also help by stop legitimising them by having them on as guests …..
    
    ……here’s looking at you HDPA , among many others.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:33am
  - pdm
    
    `………….as monitored and adjudged by?’
    
    Harry Tam?
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Our Justice System is weak because leftist bleeding hearts in Govt want to stay in power. Same for the dudges.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:51am
  - Flossie
    
    There also needs to be a clear understanding of what prison is for.
    Is it – a) punishment, b) keeping the public safe, or c) rehabilitation?
    Too much emphasis in on option c (which clearly isn’t working) and not enough on a and b.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:07am
    - peterwn
      
      Originally the four purposes of prison were punitive, deterrence, preventative and rehabilitation. More complicated now with ‘denunciation’ etc. Denunciation presumably embraces three of the four former objectives.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:14am
- rouppe
  
  I have some agreement with the general idea (not just gangs).
  
  The key is, what is good behaviour. Good behaviour is not simply not beating people up, stand over tactics, etc. Good behaviour is attending classes, helping other prisoners (not just gangs, and not just your race), working, gaining skills.
  
  The corollary to that is that there has to be a worse place than current prison conditions, which are pretty nice.
  
  There had to be a place for bad behaviour, with no gym, no tv, basic food, little recreation.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:43am
- cmm
  
  As always, you have to be careful what you incentivise.
  
  Probably a third of all gang members are in prison at any one time (based on approx 3000 gang members in prison and about 10k in total) , costing us approx $120k a year each to imprison. So gang members cost us $40k each per year on average just for prison bills. Add the other costs: societal damage, policing, etc etc, and each gang member is costing us probably $200k or more each.
  
  Therefore, based just on that, we’d “win” if we gave each gang member $10k a month to keep their noses clean.
  
  If it was less than that that then there is no incentive, because crime actually DOES pay.
  
  But the devil is in the details. If there’s a $10k hand out a month for every gang member then who is not going join a gang?
  
  It would become a massive incentive to join a gang.
  Commit crimes, so long as you don’t get caught (too often) and you will get a $10k a month koha on top of whatever you make out of crime.
  
  Sweet deal!. What can go wrong?
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A bed, 3 meals a day, laundry done, shaving gear and bathroom products. Everything a baby needs.
    Do they still get Sky TV?
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:55am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      There’s some cost cutting right there. Two meals a day. And the same. Day after day. And the banged up people have to cook. And do their own laundry. By hand. Shaving gear not provided. A barber that shaves them completely clean regularly. Same deal for all prisoners. Timed showers. You get the picture.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:00am
      - JackRabbit
        
        You forgot the chain gangs out fixing the potholes.
        
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        October 25, 2023 2:33pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    If every gang member was paid $10,000 per month by the government then that would have to go through the taxing of income process – No?
    I’m not sure that many gang members would be paying much income tax at present? Aren’t their “clubs” considered to be community based charities or some such nonsense?
    That would be a laugh – gang members having to pay tax on their illegal drug supply businesses.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:17am
- Ian Boag
  
  Read an intereesting one in the Economist about ratioing in the UK. Seems their prisons are grossly overcrowded – cells buil in the 1800s for one prisoner now holding two or three.
  
  So they are rationing … it takes ages to convict/sentence people and they have a set of rules that get people out early to make room. What’s the point of sentencing someone to a jail sentence when there is noplace to put them … ?
  
  Need (a lot) more prisons.
  
  Sound familiar?
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:52am
  - cmm
    
    As one Texas prison governor once said: If you don’t like prison, then don’t come back.
    
    The way to reduce prison muster is twofold:
    * Speed up processing so that there are less remand prisoners.
    * Make prison unpleasant so they don’t come back.
    
    Building prisons does not need to be expensive. An old shipping container, an angle grinder and a can of paint = 6 cells.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Angle grinder and shipping container don’t mix. Just cut a hole.
      I did it about 4 years ago at work. Put a new roof on a 20 foot container used for storing wheels. Weld it up, seal it, paint it, better than new!
      
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      October 25, 2023 9:11am
    - Taieri
      
      An old shipping container, an angle grinder and a can of paint = 6 cells.
      —————
      
      Doesn’t work this way. Prisons are public buildings and as such have to meet public building standards. For example the inside temperature has to be maintained at a specified level.
      
      Then, there’re UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners and all sorts of domestic legislation such as Corrections Act 2004. We may not like what legislation says, but there it is. Can it be changed and should it be changed? Perhaps it should, but it’s a very fine balancing act. I do not pretend to know the answers, but emotional reactions do not solve the problem. What can easily be changed though, is the current sentencing policy where an application of various “discounts” means that prisoners seldom serve their sentences in full even when imprisoned for very serious crimes.
      
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      October 25, 2023 9:29am
      - Sacha
        
        I understood that the ‘culture’ reports that excuse all sorts of antisocial behaviour, are going to go.
        
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        October 25, 2023 10:26am
      - Colville
        
        Taieri
        Exactly.
        This wanking on about treating prisoners like animals does this blog no favours.
        A lot of the guys banged up in prison would see it as a major improvement from their childhood situation. They have food, housing security and mates. All things they didn’t get as kids. And no abusive parents to beat them or otherwise abuse them.
        Treat the cause or make it worse. Simple really.
        
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        October 25, 2023 5:01pm
    - peterwn
      
      In WW2, Germans built Stalag Luft 3 (Great Escape, Wooden Horse) and similar places pretty quickly. So it can be done.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pity we don’t have old POW Camps Ian.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:00am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    “What’s the point of sentencing someone to a jail sentence when there is noplace to put them … ?”
    
    Quite simple really Ian. People in prisons aren’t out and about doing more crimes.
    
    People in prisons make working class suburbs safer.
    
    If it costs us another 10 Billion in capex and 1 Billion p.a. in Opex to make our streets safe again, then I am happy to pay a special tax that funds that effort.
    
    I live in an area where we have seen a massive increase in Gang numbers, they are now visible in local shopping areas in their patches. They swagger around and intimate people by their presence – they walk straight at people to force them to step aside and grin while they do it.
    
    I see them riding their flash bikes and breaking road rules forcing people to evade them.
    
    So yeah – the point of more prisons is safety of the law abiding
    
    If you think its pointless locking up criminals, I feel sorry for you.
    
    Being in a Gang is a CHOICE. Gangs are committed to criminal activity. So they should pay a price for wanton criminal activity – and that price is a long stretch in a Prison.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:43am
    - Ian Boag
      
      I didn’t say there is no point in locking people up. I questioned how you do it if there aren’t enough prison spaces …. I did mention that the only solution to this admin problem is to have a whole lot more prisons. Going by recent experience it should be easy (not) to staff them even.
      
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      October 25, 2023 1:50pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Spend the money. Use the CPE Act to seize gang members assets. Harass the pricks everytime they drive a vehicle – pull them over on suspicion of drugs or firearms offences. Make their lives incredibly difficult. Introduce RICO mimicking law to target the boys at the top and put the smart guys in the leadership position in prison with no access to their members.
        
        If costs – pay the price. if we need more rooms at the Inn – build the rooms.
        
        Segregate Gang members in their own jails, so they cant force non gang members to do their filthy work
        
        It is a question of the will do something. get started, solved 80% of the problem as quickly as possible then mop up the remainder in successive project waves….
        
        And enjoy the howls from TMP, The Greens and Labour about human rights. Tell them Gang members dont give a shit about Human Rights and as such are being treated as the Outlaws they are.
        
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        October 25, 2023 3:47pm
    - Miritu
      
      Trouble is prisons are filling with more and more guilty of victimless crimes, and less and less guilty of real crime.
      
      Brian Tamaki in solitary confinement while violent offenders get home detention
      https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/dry-toast-and-marmite-brian-tamaki-on-solitary-confinement-losing-7kg-in-jail/
      
      It’s only going to get worse … look at UK & Canada hate speech laws etc.
      
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      October 25, 2023 3:27pm
- Local Miller
  
  I love this comment “…and gang leaders could come up with ways to exit members from gangs.”
  
  Why would gang leaders ever want to help members exit the gang? The leaders depend on membership and increasing numbers. Getting people out is the last thing they want.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Billy Macfarlane is a soft cock. He does not know that the more members each gang has, the stronger they are.
    Billy Macfarlane is part of the problem.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:13am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    You mean like the electricity companies pretending to help Kiwis to use less power,
    
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    October 25, 2023 7:31pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Rewarding good behaviour can sometimes be a useful strategy when dealing with children. But then I suppose that in the case of gangs we are in fact dealing with children. Very large, violent children.
  
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  October 25, 2023 12:30pm
- cas
  
  I see the police also seized $27,000 in cash which I suspect they didn’t earn working in the kiwifruit packhouses or orchards. The IRD might be interested.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:17pm
Kiwiguy

Lloyd Burr proving what a whiny, entitled little prat he is.
Obviously feeling all butt-hurt because Luxon won’t talk to him.
“I was there during the 2017 coalition negotiations, so this is not my first rodeo” he arrogantly proclaims. What a twat.

IMHO, by keeping his coalition discussions private, Luxon has brought a new level of professionalism to coalition negotiations. It’s obviously pissing off some of the media, which is another good thing.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-lloyd-burr-analysis-christopher-luxon-attempting-to-control-coverage-of-coalition-talks-by-moving-them-to-auckland.html
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October 25, 2023 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Christopher Luxon attempting to control coverage of coalition talks by moving them to Auckland.
  Chris Luxon is the Prime Minister, Lloyd Burr is a smartarse two bit journalist.
  Back in your corner sonny.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:18am
  - Ian Boag
    
    My vague memories of other coalition negotiations – starting with Winston/Bolger/Clark in 1993 was that they weren’t conducted in public either. I guess the thing that’s different this time is that there is only one viable coalition on the books.
    
    I seem to recall KBers were generally bent out of shape that the details of Winston/Jacinda negotiations were not made public.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Is that coalition agreement still under lock and key, or was it released?
      I would love to know what sort of skullduggery Ardern was up to.
      
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      October 25, 2023 9:53am
      - Ian Boag
        
        I don’t think any of them were ever released – including the “failed” side ….
        
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        October 25, 2023 9:58am
      - peterwn
        
        If it gets into National Archives (which it should do) it would probably have a 30 year embago.
        
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        October 25, 2023 11:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ peterwn.
        
        Then get lost like the Littlewood Draft of the Treaty!
        It is deep in the bowels of Archives NZ. They can’t find it so I suspect it was found and destroyed.
        
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        October 25, 2023 12:03pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Ian, the Labour/NZF agreement was never released. The issue was never that the agreement discussions were behind closed doors, it was the fact that the Labour were not prepared to release the final agreement.
      
      Luxon has said today that this year’s agreement will be released.
      
      Burr is whining because he and his colleagues want to release details as they are leaked. It is nothing about holding politicians to account. NZ journalists have never held anybody to account, they publish what they are fed by politicians (Winston Peters mastered this art in the period 1984 to 1987, hence his good friendship with one B Soper) business interests and anybody else who wants a by-line in the media.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:16am
      - alwyn.a
        
        There was this release of information on the agreement.
        Is this complete enough for you?
        https://www.parliament.nz/media/4486/362429780labourandnewzealandfirstcoalitionagreement.pdf
        
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        October 25, 2023 11:20am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Ian, the Labour/NZF agreement was never released
        
        I don’t recall seeing the Peters/Bolger one or the Key/TPM one …. ?
        
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        October 25, 2023 1:52pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Alwyn, that was not the full agreement. The full agreement was said to be 32 to 34 pages long (based on font size apparently). The document you linked to wasn’t even signed, given that what was that precis that you linked to?
        
        It was the Ombudsman who declared it didn’t have to be released, as it was an agreement between the parties. What he omitted to say was that it was the basis as to how the parties had agreed to govern NZ between 2017 to 2020, and was therefore of public interest.
        
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        October 25, 2023 2:26pm
    - What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
      
      I seem to recall KBers were generally bent out of shape that the details of Winston/Jacinda negotiations were not made public.
      
      well, yes… but that was after they were consummated.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:30am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      National|NZF.
      
      https://www.mcguinnessinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/361348419-The-Coalition-Agreement-1996.pdf
      
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      October 25, 2023 3:06pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    If you are in coalition talks with the Greens and Labour it is good to have them in Wellington.
    Luxon’s move is good as it saves a fortune in travel expenses.
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anyway, fuck the media. They have been fucking us around for more than 6 years!
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:53pm
- Sacha
  
  “this is not my first rodeo” – latest catchphrase, lol.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:27am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Sacha,
    
    When someone comes out with that line I visualise them as the clown who distracts the bull and jumps in the barrel.
    
    Expendable bit players.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:38am
  - kujira
    
    I think little lloyd has been waiting all his life to be able to say that!
    Well done LLooyd!
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:54pm
- John Loveridge
  
  I believe that the Government has an obligation to the public to be transparent in its dealings, but I’m quite pleased to see a petulant and self-entitled reporter put in his place.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:03pm
G152

So we had all that Covid stuff direct from the dais and the world shut down.
Masks and an ineffectual vaccine ran for the next few years and the then PM of Great Britain and his mates carried on partying.
People were banned from attending loved ones funerals.
And now the protesters gather around because the Israelis have the temerity to fight back against invaders.
And not a whisper about the dreaded covid
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October 25, 2023 8:13am
- Matt Long
  
  The right kind of protesters don’t spread covid, do you remember the BLM protests during peak covid hysteria?
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:09am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    BLM has morphed to pro Palestine. It’s the same Marxist Trent a mob everywhere.
    
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-pro-palestinian-mob-shuts-down-minneapolis-street-terrorizes-motorists
    
    Even Greta and the climate movement are onto the latest ‘thing’.
    
    Narrative control is aimed at the sheep who blindly follow and happy switch from one to the other without seeing the irony. For example, the alphabet LGBTQ idiots who support Hamas without realising they are the first on the list to be persecuted and executed for their liberal positions.
    
    None of this is organic. None of it is spontaneous.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:20am
  - imalwaysright
    
    BLM= Burn Loot Murder
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Don’t talk to your neighbours”
  You know who said it.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:21am
- rouppe
  
  Ah, the dreaded covid…
  
  The building I work from was (re)assessed at 17% of NBS. Cue some panic, and advice to not come into the building unless absolutely necessary.
  
  You could come in to this large meeting room which was in another building, not subject to the 17%.
  
  Reports are that it’s crowded, hot, smelly. So when I come in, I just go to me desk in the original building. I’m often the only one there.
  
  Latest scuttlebutt from that other room? Remember that hot, stuffy, overcrowded room? Some people who were there have tested positive for Covid.
  
  Laugh my arse off.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:08pm
Bridgenag

What is woke?
An intolerant and moralizing ideology.

“Woke’s constant mis-use has ultimately resulted in the word representing all the problematic attempts to redefine society to conform to a very small minority’s understanding of how the world should operate.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/what-is-woke?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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October 25, 2023 8:15am
- nathie
  
  Woke in one picture!
  
  https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1396269648081940481
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yep, that is ‘woke!’
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:22am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Jacinda knew woke
  
  She said it’s a higher state of consciousness
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    100% woke that one.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:25am
  - imalwaysright
    
    She’s that thick she probably thought they meant awake.
    I don’t think there is a metric for her state of consciousness .
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:44am
    - Colinxy
      
      You are probably being facetious, but all flavours of Marxism believe in a higher state of consciousness. Those outside the inner circle have “false consciousness”.
      
      Like a lot of cults, Marxist ones claim secret knowledge. As such, Ardern’s cognitive prowess would be irrelevant. (Though I’d love the quote where she said woke was a higher state of consciousness)
      
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      October 25, 2023 4:22pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I don’t think -imalwaysright- was being facetious Colin.
        Jacinda Ardern is as thick as two short planks. There were advisors, and I’m sure you know who they are.
        Thick – as in when she could not even answer a non-scripted question, she just said “I refude that.”
        That killed it. She did not answer, or say why she ‘refuted’ the question.
        Thick!!
        
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        October 25, 2023 7:32pm
      - Colinxy
        
        Steve Otto, that wasn’t my point. You could be the world’s smartest man and still not have true consciousness. Under Marxian belief, only praxis leads to it. So, someone with all intellectual depth of puddle but with praxis will have the higher level of consciousness no matter how much more intelligent everyone else is.
        
        When dealing with any form of Marxism, you have to aware of all the special definitions they employ.
        
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        October 25, 2023 8:29pm
- Martonman
  
  Rep Gov of Arkansas hits out at woke terms
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzE4H8SbBzw
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:18am
- hullkiwi
  
  If you want to see woke in an interview. Catch the discussion that Ryan Bridge and Melissa Chan-Green had with some 20 something this morning on the am Show. They were discussing the topic about why women are deciding not have children.
  
  During the interview, said interviewee had to dig herself out of her hole after insulting Chan-Green who has just returned to work after 6 months maternity leave.
  
  However, the interview was positively cringe worthy woke on steroids….
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:23am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Bridgenag – here’s an example of these ‘liberal’ left scum in action.
  An elderly white man is attacked when he comes across a pro Palestine protest. They are led by a Minnesota council candidate, Zach Metzger. Think Golrhiz Gharaman.
  
  https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1716303782475084208?s=20
  
  Drone footage shows what happened. Prior to the drone footage it was being portrayed on social media as:
  
  “old white man drives through a pro-Palestinian protest”
  
  Turns out, a mob blocked off the highway, surrounded his car, chased him, and then tried attacking him.
  
  https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1716310688568647859?s=20
  
  Metzger doubled down, posting:
  
  (Metzger) “instructed his followers to find the old man.” However, the council candidate deleted the post.
  
  Apparently this potential council representative was also active at the George Floyd riots.
  
  https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1716318422047285624?s=20
  
  Re the George Floyd topic, another piece of narrative control to suit an agenda. Tucker Carlson on it a few days ago.
  
  Tucker Carlson Goes Nuclear: ‘The Whole George Floyd Story Was a Lie’
  
  https://www.westernjournal.com/tucker-carlson-goes-nuclear-whole-george-floyd-story-lie/
  
  Apologies if it was covered on KB, I was away for a couple of weeks.
  
  The point is, these are NOT organic movements. They are organised and they are well funded. Many ‘normal’ people fall for this shit. It doesn’t matter which ’cause’ you think about. Idiots on Facebook will change their frame to match the latest ‘thing’.
  This is what I was referring to a couple of days ago when I talked about being wary of believing headlines coming out of the ME. I wasn’t saying anything was true or not, simply that we are being bombarded with media images and audio and those with the means are trying to control the narrative. ALL sides are doing this.
  My point was, not jumping to conclusions.
  
  Those people attacking the elderly white guy are no more ‘pro Palestine’ than they were ‘pro BLM’ than they were ‘pro LGBTQ’ or they were ‘pro Ukraine’. It’s a bunch of narcissistic, entitled faux liberals who scream and yell like 4 year olds demanding lollies.
  
  They deserve the same treatment, a slap on the arse and sent to bed early.
  
  Every news story these days seems designed to deliberately divide us. This is because divided we are easier to control. Never forget what was done to us during covid. People dobbing in neighbours for going for a walk, morons yelling at people for not wearing a face nappie. Remember how easy that was. Never forget how effective that was.
  
  Remember that when you watch the ‘news’ and something makes you really angry. Think it through before losing your shit. Who is pushing your buttons and what is their agenda.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:38am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Clan,
    It is becoming increasingly obvious that the media are the public information department of the military industrial complex.
    
    Nearly everything broadcast this century seems designed to cause division and conflict .
    Division and conflict are vital ingredients in war.
    
    War is an extremely profitable business.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:51am
- Colinxy
  
  Woke is Intersectional Marxism. It is the combination of the various Marxist strains with Post Modern philosophy. Kimberle Crenshaw gave birth to it.
  
  It’s the combination of (Marxist) feminism, racism (disguised as anti racism), classism, queer theory power dynamics etc plus its contradiction especially with Foucault’s version of post modernism. It has since combined with “fat phobia”, disabled activism etc. That synthesis is woke.
  
  It is not anti-religious per se. As such I disagree with the author you linked. Unlike classical Marxism, woke is fully totalitarian and will not leave religion behind as a consequence. It will absolutely consume religion and convert it to its image. The other day I mentioned two of the Red Priest’s disciples. Here’s a third: Jorge Mario Bergoglio, better known as Pope Francis. (And now you know why the Leftist media fawn over the current pope).
  
  (The Red Priest is the late Helder Camara)
  
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  October 25, 2023 4:17pm
- JohnRidd
  
  Woke is a westernized version of maoist Marxism.
  
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  October 25, 2023 6:09pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    oops. I didn’t think this one got posted. Hence the next one.
    
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    October 25, 2023 7:18pm
- JohnRidd
  
  Hi Bridgenag.
  
  In case you didn’t know. Woke is a westernised version of Maoist Marxism. To describe it as catastrophically evil is an understatement.
  
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  October 25, 2023 7:09pm
Inandout

Nigel Farage exposes some really troubling attitudes of NatWest employees.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nigel-farage-branded-russian-spy-by-natwest-staff-during-debanking-saga-bombshell-documents/ar-AA1iM9YC
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October 25, 2023 8:15am
I remember when

Are the media deliberately controlling the release of details when EV/Hybrid vehicle fires are involved?
The Luton Airport Fire resulted in the destruction of 1200 cars (or was it 1500) and resulted in the loss of a $20 million parking building.
Person has now been arrested, so does that mean it may have been arson?
However, Geoff Buys Cars says that now matter how the fire started EVs were cause of the level of overall damage and loss.
He also draws attention to the increased fire danger resulting from attempts to reduce vehicle emissions.
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October 25, 2023 8:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Vehicle emissions. The controllers are out of control.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:27am
- virtualmark
  
  The car that started the Luton Airport Fire was a diesel Land Rover Discovery Sport.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:52am
  - marcw
    
    The diesel Land Rover Discovery Sport is available in hybrid versions (https://www.landrover.co.nz/discovery/discovery-sport/explore), the battery is located under the passenger seat. Coincidentally, this is where the alleged fire which caused the disaster was shown in the photos – under the passenger side of the Land Rover. Don’t jump to conclusions until the facts are established.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:07am
    - virtualmark
      
      I agree. I have no horse in this race, and don’t care if the cause of the fire was a hybrid battery or a diesel leak. Either are credible and I’m happy to wait until all the details are out.
      
      But, so far there’s been no mention of the car being a hybrid, just that it was a diesel.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:30am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        As I remember when stated:
        
        “Are the media deliberately controlling the release of details when EV/Hybrid vehicle fires are involved?”
        
        It was a question and a very fair one.
        
        We now know for a fact that during covid, the government knew full well that the jabs were neither ‘safe’ nor ‘effective’.
        
        We also know that up to 13,000 Ministry of Health staff were offered exemptions while the rest of the country was brutally coerced into taking part in this experiment.
        
        With these and other examples of the narrative being controlled is it any wonder we ask questions about everything we are told by government and their lackeys in the mainstream media?
        They have lost the trust of most people and it will take a long time to get back.
        
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        October 25, 2023 10:49am
artemisia

Independent experts find potential $1b hole in Wellington City Council books A trio of civic minded ratepayers paid for the review from their own pockets. Review based on publicly available information.

“But the council has hit back, saying the claim is based on old figures and the basis behind some costs is unclear.” That may be true, but the council could consider that it is their job to update figures, specify their assumptions, and not kick the can down the road aka pray and hope. Like, have a wee bit of regard for those of us paying for their salaries, their EVs, their cultural advisers ….

Paywalled on Stuff, free to read on the Herald.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/independent-experts-find-potential-1b-hole-in-wellington-city-council-books/FSW2B26D6FCTPH4NPGXNFKLHAQ/
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October 25, 2023 8:18am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Oh pish posh.
  
  Tory was brought in on an agenda of real change
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:08am
  - peterwn
    
    She owes her Mayoralty to Stuff – it was the Post that ran a puff piece about her on the front page saying polling (certainly not Curia polling) had put her ahead. That channeled the left leaning votes her way.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:25am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I’m thinking Tory might be Kiri’s first client.
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:02pm
- zulumonster
  
  “But the council has hit back, saying the claim is based on old figures”
  That is a laughable response from the council … when have any figures from WCC been adjusted downwards? The problem is the $1 billion is likely to balloon considerably.
  I’m surprised they haven’t attacked the source (Castalia) as they were the firm that provided Nationals election policy costings that were widely questioned, while there was not even a raised eyebrow about any of the partys on the left costings.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Labour must have given the Council the roving decimal point. No use to the Govt anymore.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:29am
slightlyrighty

Given the new poll showing the Australian Labor party support falling, the change of government in NZ and the rise of the Canadian Conservatives over Trudeau, are we seeing a backlash against the politics of Woke Progressivism?

If we look at the US example, where the woke cities have become lawless with rampant drug use, tent cities for homeless, mass lootings (San Francisco, Philadelphia, for example), the desire for a return to order has grown, and the political right is now seen as the best way to achieve this.

It seems that “Go Woke, Go Broke” applies to politics as well.
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October 25, 2023 8:19am
Observant Octagenarian

I see in The (English) Telegraph today, that insurers are refusing to insure Electric Cars, because of the high costs of battery repairs and replacement.
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October 25, 2023 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems it may not be materials for batteries that will kill EVs, it will be Insurance.
  Good. EVs are a crazy Green idea. I don’t blame Elon Musk, he is just running a business to meet the demand.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:37am
  - kevn
    
    SteveO… I wonder if the new solid state battery tech will solve the problems?
    Toyota are well into it.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:08am
    - Burtland
      
      is this the new “pink unicorn” battery ? – theres always a new pink unicorn battery
      
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      October 25, 2023 5:19pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I know of it. My google machine mentions BMW in USA.
      No link, I lost it.
      
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      October 25, 2023 7:42pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    On a more practical level, Mechanics are reluctant too work on them due to “Yet to be discovered” diagnostic monitoring of battery and condition.
    
    A small ding and are you going too repair it , Only to find its errupted into flames after the event ?
    
    Another question , Who in there right mind would put baby seats into a an EV ?
    
    I sure would not like too be a mechanic repairing an EV only too find the battery burst into flames later.
    
    This in a nutshell is why nobody is prepared to insure them. Small Ding and the scrap heap they go.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nightmares for WOF Inspectors. I used to issue WOF for trailers only. The braking regulations are very involved for 3500KG GVM.
      I have not read the VIRM about vehicle regulations of EVS. Don’t think I will bother, retired now. Probably 50 pages of bullshit written by a pen pusher with no clue.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:51am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        wtf is GVM, VIRM and EVS.
        When I want to confuse people I use words like kaitiatitanga, manaatitanga etc.
        
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        October 25, 2023 12:08pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Tauhei.
        GVM = Gross Vehicle Mass, meaning all up weight including load.
        TARE I should add in. That is the weight of the vehicle unladen.
        VIRM= Vehicle inspection requirements manual. The portal to look up regs. This is where all of the requirements are listed. Everything, tyres, rust, lights, dimensions, over dimensions, doors, glass, brakes. It is quite expansive.
        EVS was a typo. EVs Electric Vehicles.
        Sorry about that chief. I guess you are not the only one I confused.
        
        Pain in the arse actually. I had to look for any changes monthly, and self inspect that I understood. The sign and date a form. Typical Govt timewasting bullshit.
        When the head honcho comes around, he inspects all of the WOF checksheets and goes over all sorts of other shit. Sometimes he would want a demonstration of checking a trailer. (Company was Reid Trailers)
        Then tells me that I have not failed enough trailers. If a trailer comes in and it needs a light bulb replacing, then I fix it and give it a pass. But no, Mr Timewaster wants me to fail it, then check it, then pass it. Fuck! Govt wants to talley up the number of trailers failed each test! I then tell him that 97% of my checks are on brand new trailers. If I find something wrong with a new trailer then whoever was working on it goes upstairs for a little chat about performance.
        Yes, I get stuck into them. I thought I would explain it to show what a tedious task it is just for a Warrant.
        
        Oh Tauhei, when you confuse people do you use words like Waikikimukau?//
        
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        October 25, 2023 12:47pm
artemisia

Parts of Gaza razed to the ground, many displaced and photos all over the media. Important to remember that Hamas initiated launching thousands of missiles at Israel, assume with the intent to raze Israel to the ground. Where are all those photo ops?

Maybe Hamas could have thought ahead and spent money on their own iron dome instead of weapons. But hey, no photo ops so why would they.
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October 25, 2023 8:21am
- Matt Long
  
  Gaza doesn’t have the resources or know how to build an Iron Dome.
  However they have a much more effective missile defence system, in fact a totally effective way to stop bombs landing too.
  The high tech JST system. Just Stop Terrorism.
  A shame they don’t use it.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:14am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Iron domes do not kill Israelis and Israel.
  Hamas has one goal.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:40am
- Master Mariner
  
  They rely on Israel for everything, Cell Towers, Fuel, Electricity , Food etc etc.
  Like I say, You have to look at the situation without emotion,
  Its no secret Gaza is an open refugee camp run by “Elected” officials of Hamas.
  Approx 50% population is under 25 with 2 options, 1, Cross border and work or 2. get indoctrinated by Hamas and Ideaolgy.
  I have been too Israel but never West Bank/ Gaza ( for obvious reasons).
  So in this context, Is it no wonder they crossed into Israel in “Allah’s hands ” on a one way ticket and the ones less certain in “Allah” were promised cash rewards upon there return.
  However, The wider implications of forcing? Iran into the fold will result in far more serious implications than what has already happened.
  Namely , The flow of Oil out of the Straights of Hormuz. This is why a carrier Group is on its way.
  This would make the 70’s Oil crisis tame in comparison with “Aliances” throuhout the Arab World with Russia/China.
  The timing ( I believe ) was too Disrupt the Saudi’s recognising the State of Israel and nearly signed, Which would of sent a strong message of Legitimacy too the Middle East .
  
  Question, Was the US ( Biden )played like a fiddle into believing the Saudi’s were serious in recognising the State of Israel?
  
  Like a Lou Reed Song, ” Believe nothing what you hear and half of what you see” comes to mind.
  
  The World is decoupling more and more.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:42am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I think you’re missing the point – “Palestinians” dying from retaliatory strikes is a feature of their plan, not a bug. Their plan doesn’t work without “innocent Palestinians” dying.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:27am
  - Burtland
    
    and preferably live on the BBC
    
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    October 25, 2023 5:26pm
70andstilllearning

The Herald’s conclusion!

“Negotiations between the parties have reportedly shifted to Auckland where Luxon, Act leader David Seymour and NZ First leader Winston Peters are all based.

It’s believed the trio are spending more time in the city to avoid the intense media scrutiny of the press gallery in Wellington as they hammer out an agreement.”

Those twits in the “press gallery” really are just so far up their own fundamental orifices …

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-christopher-luxon-talks-to-newstalk-zbs-mike-hosking-as-coalition-negotiations-continue/4BBR3GOAANAABECANGB7MI4BPQ/
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October 25, 2023 8:24am
- Kiwiguy
  
  Agree. See my comment re Lloyd Burr. Same thing. All upset and insulted that they’re not privy to the negotiations. The come-down of these media types will be glorious to see.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  The excellent Karl du Fresne on this very subject.
  
  ‘I sometimes wonder whether political reporters ever pause to think how precious and entitled their behaviour looks to outsiders.
  
  I doubt it. They are too self-absorbed.
  
  Right now, members of the parliamentary press gallery are feeling peevish.’
  
  https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2023/10/suddenly-media-are-no-longer-important.html
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:31am
- Frank Thomas
  
  They are annoyed that Luxon, Seymour and Peters are giving them the silent treatment now the election is over. They have nothing factual to report on so are just speculating (otherwise known as “making shit up”) until the final election results are in. My prediction is that once known, the coalition talks will be very short and sweet and we can move on and get the government up and running.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:55am
  - hullkiwi
    
    No problem Fred, the news media have been full of stories about:
    1.;the pain and difficulties that will be caused to Wellington & the public services if National and Act advance their intentions to get rid of the bloat in the bureaucracy; or
    
    2. The problems National will have to implement it’s tax policy;
    
    3. The problems National will have with Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown because he wants the Light Rail scheme and National doesn’t.
    
    The above are b*****t news stories that have come from Labour sources, and fed to the paid for media. The only problem for Labour & the media, nobody is reading or listening to the media.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:07am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      There is also the amusing thought that NACTFNZ will have a pulpit from which mostly truth may emanate, while now the LGTPM lot will have some floor tiles elsewhere in the building – some of the poor souls in the gallery will struggle to make a decision where to go 🙂
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:43pm
- Raphael
  
  As it should be. while they are in the middle of negotiations all the Media needs to know is “we’re still talking about it”
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:11am
- Ehlana
  
  No chance the three of them live in Auckland, is there?
  
  Pity there isn’t some form of public transport our climate-change sensitive press gallery could take to get here. Oh, look, it’s https://www.intercity.co.nz/
  
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  October 25, 2023 12:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Big Pharma Could Now Be Exposed To Liability Over COVID Jab Results.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2023/10/big-pharma-could-now-be-exposed-to-liability-over-covid-jab-results/?
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October 25, 2023 8:24am
- Sacha
  
  It will take years, but it’s going to happen. The evidence of deliberate becomes more obvious with every set of data release.
  It may take years, but in the meantime people will simply embed their mistrust of those liable.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tucker Carlson.
Going to war with Iran?

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/10/tucker-it-looks-like-were-going-to-war-with-iran-are-we-ready-video/?
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October 25, 2023 8:26am
- mawm
  
  It is looking very likely that the Nato-allied countries will be taking on the Arab world, Iran, Turkey and Russia. This will not end well for the USA.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:20am
- Lee C
  
  Saw this Steve.
  Some issues raised:
  The current (justified) emoting about Hamas. This was their plan – to outrage and tip Israel into belligerance.
  The involvemnt of the US in a war on Iran: The US have no oil reserves (Biden sold them to China) few weapons (Biden gave them ti The Ukraine) and the US Army is depleted personnel-sise.
  The Iranians have accurate long-ratnge missiles.
  A US-Iran War would lose years of building symapathy in other MUslim COuntries, including Egypt, who recently mobilised. Draw Turkey into a war. And Russia would support Iran.
  The potential for a concerted war to ‘remove’ Israel is on the table.
  
  Remeber this when you buy into the outrage about beheaded children adn hostages.
  
  This was the end-game.
  
  Checkmate. (originally and Arabic term).
  
  Israel MUST pause NOW. There is more than one way to win a war.
  
  In my opinion.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:25am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes lee C, The real question in my mind was whether Saudi Arabia was prepared to Recognise the State of Israel and thereby Legitimise it too the Arab World?
    
    Was Biden Played ? I dont really know but definately worth asking these Questions.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:48am
    - mawm
      
      Biden pissed off the Saudis whereas they respected Trump. One wonders what the doddering old fool said.
      
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      October 25, 2023 7:21pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Respect. Trump’s words.
        “You do not have to like someone to respect them, and with that respect you get respect back”
        This was after Trump’s visit to North Korea.
        
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        October 25, 2023 7:47pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    US still has shitloads of oil in the ground. When Trump wins it will be “drill baby, drill”
    It is just incredible what Biden has done. US was pumping, refining, storing and even selling gas and diesel. I think atm the US has 20 days supply of refined fuel.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:00am
    - imalwaysright
      
      S.O
      
      That’s right , and remember a few months ago sleepy was putting the strategic reserves on the market to try to bring the pump prices down.
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:15pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Crazy. Selling stored crude but not pumping crude and shutting off the pipelines. Joe wants to destroy America.
        Actually it’s not Joe, it’s the puppeteer Obama.
        
        7 2
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        October 25, 2023 12:56pm
    - virtualmark
      
      That may be what Fox News is telling you. But …
      
      (1) Biden drawing down the US strategic oil reserves did push the price of gasoline down. See https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price The strategic reserves came to market over 12 months starting in March 2022, and you can see the effect of that in the price history.
      
      (2) US oil production today is as high as it has ever been (higher than every month except Nov-2019, and forecast to rise above that level in the coming months). See https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=m
      
      To me the legitimate criticism is that Biden hasn’t done enough to re-stock the strategic oil reserves. Not sensible to do that given oil prices just now, but he had a chance to do more at the beginning of this year.
      
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      October 25, 2023 1:17pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        So you agree that Trumps suggestion to buy more oil when it was around 40 was smart
        Good for you
        https://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/great-time-buy-oil-trump-says-prices-plunge-negative-territory-n1188351
        Lol
        Oh and Biden sold that Oil to China and the blip was temporary. Why do you always omit the detail?
        Lying much?
        
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        October 25, 2023 10:46pm
I remember when

The epidemic of ‘mentally unstable’ climate activists:
Sky News Australia.

The great thing is you don’t even have to view the programme!

You just shut your eyes and you get the picture.
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October 25, 2023 8:26am
cmm

They’re blaming the “super fog” for a deadly highway crash in USA.

Bollocks. Fog and rain do not cause crashes. People do.

Drive to conditions!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/300995460/superfog-near-new-orleans-blamed-for-highway-pile-ups-that-killed-at-least-7
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October 25, 2023 8:29am
- Benedict Yu
  
  This has been happening in the USA for decades. Funny how it never happens in Germany because when there is heavy fog on the autobahn you need to slow to 50 kmh. And being Germans they all do exactly that. 😀
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:45am
  - kowtow
    
    Achtung !
    
    Happens there too .
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:50am
  - cmm
    
    What astounds me is how few people drive with headlights in NZ when there are heavy mists/fogs.
    
    When I used to drive in to Chch from Darfield I quite often went through foggy stretches around West Melton.
    
    If a car has its headlights on you could see it from about 200m away. If it had just its park lights on then maybe 50 metres away. No lights, maybe half that.
    
    Park lights are for parking. Not for driving.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:23am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      What gets me is the number of cars with only one headlight that works.
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:19am
- ClanMcleod
  
  cmm – our societies are being deliberately converted to being fully dependent on our governments. People are told to be frightened, nothing is your fault, don’t even think about personal responsibility. The government will fix everything, just do what we tell you.
  
  The story you posted is a prime example. “It wasn’t me, it was the weather!”
  
  Too many are happy to accept this and gladly cede all authority for what happens to them to others. This makes them pliable drones, an authoritarian dream.
  
  Madness.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:46am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘nothing is your fault, don’t even think about personal responsibility.’
    
    Unless you’re a pale ,stale, male.
    
    Then everything is your fault.
    
    Innit.
    
    27 1
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    October 25, 2023 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    A couple of weeks ago I was driving through the Buller Gorge on a highway with a 100 kmh speed limit. To say that it was raining is an understatement. 😂 I was driving at 40 kmh with my hazard lights on. No government to help you out there.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:57am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      BY – but if you’d been doing 80 and caused a pile up the media would have reported it as a ‘climate change’ accident…….it was the heavy rain that dunnit, you need a government provided counsellor…..🙄😂😂😂
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Alaska:
  
  https://imgur.com/gallery/bdx02n0
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:03am
Maggie Pie

Just how bad are the books?

“We’ve inherited one HELL of a mess”

– Chris Luxon (incoming Prime Minister)
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October 25, 2023 8:31am
- cmm
  
  There is something wrong with National. Whenever they come into power then the books (and everything else) are always in a mess.
  
  … or something like that…
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:38am
  - Pavel
    
    It’s a pattern that keeps repeating. Labor take power and blow cash like confetti. They increase government spending, run up debt and leave the cupboards bare. National get in and have to balance the books and cut the excessive spending programs Labor put in place. Eventually people feel the governments too stingy and Labor get back in and the cycle continues. We’ve seen this with the Clark, Key and Ardern governments. The same happens in Australia like when Rudd took over from Howard and then Gillard borrowed record amounts. Albo is now throwing around hard saved money left behind by the coalition on none GDP generating ideological policies. One side blows all the money, the other side has to tidy up the mess and balance things. It’s a never ending cycle.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Six times now. Buggered if I know what causes it.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:08am
    - cmm
      
      Either bad luck, or National just attracts bad books…. Can’t see what else it could be.
      Either way this always seems to happen when we vote for a change to National.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:20am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Indeed, truly remarkable!
    
    It’s almost like there is a pattern here, but I just can’t put my finger on what is the common factor…
    
    Oh yes, that’s right, there’s always a profligate Labour Party, throwing money around like a pack of monkeys flinging pooh
    
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    October 25, 2023 2:28pm
- sherp
  
  Wondering if old Shamubeel Eaqub is still pushing labour could keep all their spending promises and not create a massive financial hole…. can’t understand how he’s not flipping burgers now.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:39am
  - Kiwiguy
    
    I can’t understand how anyone takes Shambles seriously, after his very public screw-up with his own property.
    Economists were invented to make astrologers look good.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:17am
  - crikey
    
    Does anyone taking any notice of ‘old Shamubeel Eaqub’ as an independent economist?
    
    26 0
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    October 25, 2023 9:25am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I still remember his advice to people back in 2012 when Auckland houses cost an average of $618k ……..it’s cheaper to rent in Auckland than it is to buy a house.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rent-dont-buy-says-economist/MP2TXZUW4XY75NXXR7ADLDM7FI/
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:31am
- pdm
  
  I get the clear impression that what Cullen left in 2008 will seem a `walk in the park’ compared to the mire that Robertson has left.
  
  At least Cullen seemed a methodical man with easily followed processes – even if he did buy a train set to get rid of the last of the money.
  
  Robertson seems much more a `seat of his pants’ operator with shambles being his main modus operandi.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:43am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Urban Dicktionary…
    
    robbonomics (n) : the rising cost of voting stupid.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:54am
- RoboRob
  
  Its not just a financial mess. I have been harping on for years about the state of our electricity system. Megan Woods knew all about it and mentioned it her maiden speach 6 years ago. She said we needed to grow electricity supply every year to meet future demand from the likes of EVs.
  
  Once in power she did precisely nothing. The only new power we have is Wind and next year Solar will be joining the team. Both of these generation sources do very little to help with peak demand (Winter nights). Most days Wind only produces 10-20% of its maximum output and it does it at random times.
  
  The media has done nothing to cover this story and let Megan away with screwing the country. Energy being a critical component to a countries economic success. Now, days after labour losing the election we have transpower publicly stating we have a problem. Interesting timing right? Now its a National government problem.
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/124862/after-winters-close-shaves-transpower-warns-more-concerns-ahead-due-unreliability
  
  The funny thing is last year Transpower said, supply will be tight this winter but had a load of new generation coming on line for next winter. Seems like an agency was covering for their minister.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:01am
  - Observant Octagenarian
    
    What they don’t mention is the cost of building and maintaining solar and wind generators is extremely high. So the power companies need to hike the price of power to recover their investments.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:45am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      OO – excellent point. I argued that years ago with the head of EECA (Energy Efficiency & Conservation Authority). That when they produced their ‘models’ they NEVER factor in all the associated costs with acquiring land, Iwi placating, construction, life span, disposal etc etc.
      
      They primarily do it with laboratory based data gathered in ideal conditions.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:07am
      - Ian Boag
        
        life span, disposal
        
        The ones where nuclear doesn’t come out all that well. As far as I know, most of the (highly radioactive) spent fuel from the world’s power stations is sitting in cooling ponds. Not what one would call “safely stored”. Or the toxic gunk left over from reprocessing in tanks at Sellafield.
        
        As the UK Magnox plants run off the end, they are shut up – essentially unmanned – for the 100 or so years that it will take for the radioactivity in the station to decay off to a safe level for dismantling.
        
        Every so often there is talk of hiding the waste inside mountains or salt domes, but it doesn’t seem to happen.
        
        I am not passionately anti-nuke but reluctant to leave my offspring with an unsolved problem of this magnitude.
        
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        October 25, 2023 12:20pm
      - Jack5
        
        Meanwhile, the Telegraph reports Britain is “galloping ahead” with what Ambrose Evans-Pritchard describes as the “world’s most advanced ecosystem for commercial nuclear fusion”.
        
        Scientists at California’s Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory replicated a December 2022 experiment where they made more energy from fusion than they put in.
        
        Evans-Pritchard reports Nick Walkden, the UK director of the Fusion Industry Association as saying: “The moment the first fusion electron hits the grid, the world is going to change.”
        
        The Telegraph article’s behind a paywall, but:
        
        https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-scientists-repeat-fusion-power-breakthrough-ft-2023-08-06/
        
        If you want to know how fusion generates electricity:
        
        https://ccfe.ukaea.uk/fusion-energy/how-fusion-works/
        
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        October 25, 2023 3:23pm
    - Paulus
      
      In Europe Wind Turbines are now manufactured with a Diesel motor in case they have no power.
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:05pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Once in power she did precisely nothing.
      
      Given that supply of electricity is the role of the mostly privately owned electricity companies what exactly might she have done? The companies don’t care about supply shortages anyway so long as they can sell all they generate.
      
      What was gummint supposed to do?
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:57pm
      - plc
        
        Not say they are going to do something….especially when they have neither the intention, work ethic or knowledge to do so.
        
        That would be a start.
        
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        October 25, 2023 3:10pm
      - peterwn
        
        Actually they do. They know that power shortages are political dynamite. And regulatory agencies like the Electricity Authority are aware of this too. That is why the small power retail companies cannot convince the EA etc that the ‘gentailers’ should be forced to sell power to the small retailers at a controlled price. These retailers rely on a low spot price but are not prepared to invest in generation or enter into long term contracts for power.
        
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        October 25, 2023 8:57pm
      - wsk12345
        
        She should have not stalled a decade of investment with the Lake Onslow proposal for starters.
        
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        October 25, 2023 9:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Greens can shoulder some of the blame for not growing the supply.
    No Hydro, and more important, NO Nuclear!
    See them? All rolling around on the floor making stupid noises, having anxiety attacks, just because I said “NUCLEAR!!!!”
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:17am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Exactly, And the reason I am looking at getting a new switchboard with RCD and the ability too Plug in a Generator ( Come on line when a Blackout).
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I just installed my RCD next to the 1980 fusebourd.
      It protects all of the stuff on my front deck. Lighting, spapool, BBQ.
      Then if I want to run a lead to work on a car, I just plug it in there. (8 outlets)
      
      5 1
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      October 25, 2023 1:02pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    You have overlooked Jacinda and Megan investing in the failed Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme. That is now set to be axed, all because it is well….a massive waste of money for some academic engineers playing with public money!
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:39am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Megan thinks a money pond is the opposite of a money pit.
      
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      October 25, 2023 12:37pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It is one of those things that works in the academic world but just plain stupid in real life.
      
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      October 25, 2023 1:04pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Fish about on the Net and you will find quite a few functioning pumped hydro schemes – eg Dinorwic in Wales.
        
        3 0
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        October 25, 2023 5:34pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ian,
        Yes yes, but we all know it will never function in New Zealand.
        Have you ever heard about the nutter Greens in NZ??
        
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        October 25, 2023 7:53pm
- mogg
  
  He also said: ‘Robertson is the worst Finance Minister in history of NZ’ Before last weeks big jump in govt bond rates we were paying over $NZ10 billion in annual interest payments alone. This figure will now be higher. Robertson made NZ economy his own personal plaything.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am surprised Robertson did not run away like Ardern did.
    He must know how much shit he has put NZ in.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:19am
    - oldfella
      
      Talking of Cindy: has anyone heard a peep from Glorious (former) Leader since the election?
      I’d have though our media would have been hammering on her door seeking a response.
      Hmmm.
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:54am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Oldfella,
        
        Our Lady of the Attic henceforth will appear only as an apparition to those she deems worthy .
        
        12 0
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        October 25, 2023 12:40pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        She’s going to school. (needs to)
        Harvard Kennedy School.
        Meanwhile she is resting up at Mar-A-Lago.
        
        6 2
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        October 25, 2023 1:09pm
      - Paulus
        
        Living in Boston. Mass.
        Not sure whether daughter and other one there – heard not so !
        Got some bad flak from some New York media where she is a super guest lister.
        
        6 0
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        October 25, 2023 2:08pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        S.O
        Imagine trump walking down his gold plated hallway to get a burger and a coke and the one who can’t be knicknamed pops it head out from round a corner… “Hoi, oim Jocindeur”
        
        8 2
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        October 25, 2023 3:16pm
Swifty

Wow – some people really are extremely threatened by the thought of New Zealanders getting to have their say:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300994769/nah-f-off-mori-say-treaty-referendum-would-trigger-widespread-protest

A quick point about the headline too – “Maori say…..”

That’s not quite right though is it? That implies ALL Maori say, when in fact it’s just a very, very small few quotes in the article – and a number of whom who are deeply conflicted in that they stand to do very well out of the status quo and very poorly if the referendum took away their power, cash and influence.

Joel Maxwell and/or the Stuff subbies must think we’re all bloody thick.
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October 25, 2023 8:34am
- Raphael
  
  given that a number of Maori elders have come out saying that TPM doesn’t speak for them and are condemning Hamas means that there may not be the waves of angry protests TPM and Greens are trying to drum up.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:15am
  - Swifty
    
    A very good point, thanks.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Waitangi Tribunal needs to be binned and the Treaty ‘unwritten’ Go back to the pre 1975 Treaty whish doe NOT include “forestry and fisheries.”
  The Gravy Train will stop. That is why Maori do not want a referendum.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:08am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Shane Jones :
    
    “we must stop injecting the treaty poison into the bloodstream of New Zealand”
    
    Hard to argue with that.
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:44pm
    - Paulus
      
      Shane will make a good Maori Affairs Minister too !
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:10pm
- Philview
  
  I predict the militant left is going to be up for an aggressive fight. The tone of articles from left wing journalists in the last few days almost advocating violence to stop a possible referendum on the Treaty. Other articles pushing for protest on climate change, workers rights and calling the new government a threat to progressive rights. I have seen articles strategising on how to get Labour back in Government in 2026. Some journalists in the NZ media are openly hostile to the democratic will of the population.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:34am
  - artemisia
    
    More than probable there will be fewer mainstream media journalist jobs soon. Add in a lot more competition as communications staffers lose their jobs, especially as their outputs over time will be getting checked carefully. Not that reasons will ever be said out loud. Gonna get ugly.
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:51pm
  - Colinxy
    
    The Neo Marxist, Herbert Marcuse, redefined what democracy means. “True” democracy is communism. Correspondingly, we have false democracy. The Left, by this definition, are the demos (people), so what they is democratic. What anyone else says is therefore not democratic by their definition.
    
    So, these journalists do not see themselves as against the will of the people since they are the people. Similarly, they consider themselves kind, peaceful and tolerant because they have defined themselves as such. It doesn’t matter how violent or fascistic they are (acknowledged by Marcuse himself), they will always be kind, peaceful, tolerant and democratic. As Marcuse’s special pleading goes “the end doesn’t justify the means unless he’s doing it”. (I’m paraphrasing)
    
    Whenever Leftists use words, it always pays to determine whether they’re using their own special definitions or not. I never believed Ardern meant “be kind” in the usual definition, but rather in the special Leftist definition. And as we now all know, she meant by the special version.
    
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    October 25, 2023 5:03pm
ClanMcleod

Dr John Campbell does a round up of the excess all cause mortality numbers in various locations on the planet. NZ gets a mention around 4 minutes 30 seconds. We hit 30% not too long ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16NXMjbAVG8&t=307s

Watch the full video, it isn’t very long, the implications are concerning.

Here in NZ, nothing in our media. Nothing from politicians. Apparently nothing happened and nothing unusual is currently happening.

We aren’t getting closer to 1984, we are living it right now.
Narrative is fully controlled by ‘Big Brother’ or whatever name you want to give to those who explicitly or implicitly control what we are permitted to see and hear on mainstream media.

No, let’s not ‘move on’. We can’t move anywhere until this elephant is acknowledged and addressed.
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October 25, 2023 8:37am
- cmm
  
  We can move on once we have learned what needs to be learned.
  
  Not before.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:40am
  - kevn
    
    cmm… We have learnt that trust is long gone.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:16am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      I do wonder whether Peters’ covid inquiry (followed by ACT’s covid inquiry policy) and ACT’s treaty of waitangi referendum are part of a big plan.
      
      Both policies (accompanied with beefed up MP conflicts of interest policy/policing) are vital for NZ to move forward successfully and to make it difficult for the next corrupt Labour Hierarchy to embezzle taxpayer’s hard earned.
      
      Neither policy could be championed by the middle class female vote seeking National Party but I’m picking (hoping) Luxon knows how important these policies are.
      
      We’ll find out in a week or so.
      
      9 1
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      October 25, 2023 10:54am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Inaddition,
      When Science is not Science,
      When a Vaccine is not a vaccine
      When Safe and effective is not .
      Single source of truth is anything but.
      
      Kaftka would have a field day writting a novel in these times.
      
      13 1
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      October 25, 2023 10:58am
- I remember when
  
  “Lets move on.”
  
  That means we will be able to keep referencing what happened during covid, while making the same mistakes again.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:21am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I remember when – in the UK ‘inquiry’ the Terms of Reference were basically limited to whether or not they should have locked down earlier.
    Nothing whatsoever about vaccine efficacy or adverse effects.
    
    NZ’s current version is at least as bad.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:12am
Terry Dalee

I see the NZ Herald engaging in more active dis-information.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-christopher-luxon-talks-to-newstalk-zbs-mike-hosking-as-coalition-negotiations-continue/4BBR3GOAANAABECANGB7MI4BPQ/

“That will require compromise from all parties. Act wants a referendum on the Treaty of Waitangi despite Luxon saying such a vote would be “divisive”, while Act and National both want the age eligibility for the pension lifted, which NZ First strongly opposes.”

The link regarding the referendum then takes you to an opinion page by Moana Maniapoto.
Opinion masquerading as news.

The other subtle but important difference, ACT want a referendum on the “Principles of the Treaty”, not a referendum on abolishing the Treaty which the NZ Herald seems to be implying.

A complaint should be lodged over this.
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October 25, 2023 8:38am
- Terry Dalee
  
  ha, well it worked.. I wrote to Formal Complaints @ NZ Herald, stated my case of the article being against the first principle of the NZ Media council and the Herald responded within the hour…
  
  “Hello Terry, thank you for your email.
  The article has been updated to clarify that Act has called for a referendum on Treaty of Waitangi principles.
  It also links to this article which explains Act’s position in more detail.”
  
  Thanks NZ Herald…..
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:12am
  - RoboRob
    
    Well done Terry, and good on the Herald.
    
    If only Stuff was as responsive. They dont even bother replying to emails.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:34am
    - Terry Dalee
      
      Your confusing Stuff with being an actual news site.
      It’s a propaganda platform devoid of any balance or objectivity.
      
      Just look how many media council rulings they’ve had against them…
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:40am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        Terry, Bloody brilliant. An uptick is inadequate recognition of perceptive writing.
        
        14 0
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        October 25, 2023 12:18pm
Laksa Richard

Coming to a cinema near you – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt28493734/?ref_=ttpl_ov
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October 25, 2023 8:40am
- Matt Long
  
  Sounds like a blockbuster. I presume the taxpayer dropped another 10 mill to make this?
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:21am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Laksa Richard – don’t read the synopsis, I threw up in my mouth and closed the page when I got to this bit.
  
  Then her suburban family idyll is interrupted with the arrival of a mysterious virus and this mother, scientist and press-favourite is taking calls from all over the world explaining Covid-19 science – and having her lunch delivered to her desk by her adoring husband. The sky is full of approving voices for this ‘clear and kind’ science communicator.
  
  It’s like a paragraph out of 1984. North Korea will pay a fortune for this kind of ludicrous, blatant PR and narrative control.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:20am
  - graham
    
    Reads as though it was written by a star-struck adoring fan-girl of about 14.
    
    Or a Stuff journalist.
    
    Whoever wrote it can’t spell “cajole”, so could be either, I suppose.
    
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    October 25, 2023 2:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fauci’s nightmare.
He is deeply concerned that we have not learned enough.
WHAT??

https://therecorddaily.com/faucis-fears-the-inevitable-pandemic-nightmare/?
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October 25, 2023 8:44am
Maggie Pie

A bestie tweets….”Taxpayers were treated like their own personal Piggy Bank – I see where some are even calling it corruption”

https://twitter.com/AnneCla70780917/status/1716695935961743431
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October 25, 2023 8:50am
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/300994551/its-not-just-the-death-of-the-light-rail-its-the-death-of-hope
Auckland commenters- can you provide a translation of this rather lazy “interviewing the typewriter” piece by another of our leftist lady journalists?
Do ya want the light rail, or not?
Please advise,
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October 25, 2023 8:51am
- Kiwiguy
  
  She’s a vacuous immature attention seeker. Pay no attention.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:57am
- RockyJ
  
  I’m a faithful Aucklander, a citizen of the whore of the north. I can only speak for myself and my friends with whom I have discussed the light rail project.
  
  I am very happy to see it canned. It is proposed to have reduced traffic but most traffic through the isthmus is east/west and this would have been a monstrous block in the way. The main purpose would have been to shift people from the central city to the airport but most Auckland residents who fly tend to dissipate in all directions once they exit the airport. Not many people would have used it.
  
  There is a heavy passenger rail corridor cheaply available on government owned land from Wiri station to the airport. It could easily link to the city from Wiri.
  
  Thank God it is gone. Too bad it has cost so much and really just amounted to a make work scheme for planners and consultants
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:05am
  - MCōs
    
    The line might have gone to the airport, but it’s a mistake to think that would have been its primary purpose.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:59am
- NothingLeft
  
  An incredibly expensive, slow and terribly inefficient 19th century solution that would be obsoleted by self driving robo-taxis before it was finished.
  
  Auckland should have a full-time road tunnelling unit, building road and infrastructure tunnels (water, power) to bypass all the impediments to creating faster inter-suburban road connections. Boring company is now able to build car-tunnels at ~1km/month and ~$10million per km. In 10 years time we will be able to build a fast tunnel road network for a couple of billion that will end traffic congestion forever. A single tunnel with precisely controlled closely spaced self-driving EVs can carry several lanes worth of motorway traffic.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:58am
  - Taieri
    
    19th century solution that would be obsoleted by self driving robo-taxis before it was finished
    ————-
    
    Propelled by hydrogen…or was it sails?…
    
    7 1
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    October 25, 2023 10:47am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Boring company is now able to build car-tunnels at ~1km/month and ~$10million per km
    
    Sounds great. Who has done it, where and when … ?
    
    2 0
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    October 25, 2023 2:02pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      He said the ‘Boring Company’…
      I realise that some of you oldies are challenged by new tech but there’s this thing called a search function.
      Looks like there’s a list of projects there too
      
      3 1
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      October 25, 2023 2:21pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I looked. Projects. Happening Real Soon Now ….
        
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        October 25, 2023 8:20pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You didnt look hard enough
        They have completed some
        Others are under construction
        https://www.boringcompany.com/projects
        Why do you deliberately lie?
        Is it because you’ve been exposed as a dick?
        Dont worry
        We already know!
        
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        October 25, 2023 10:55pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Made the mistake of skimming that, vacuous nonsense from an immature 20 something interviewing her keyboard.
  
  There is a small glimmer of truth when she admits that all Labour promises were bullshit, but she doesn’t learn from that.
  
  So dear friends from Auckland. Wonder what the “regional fuel tax”went on, eh? Weren’t you supposed to be joyfully catching Trams by now. After all, Cindy made a promise!
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:39pm
Benedict Yu

A woman named Anne Andres recently won the Canadian Power Lifting Championship.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1691184360462950400?t=OcZtvMnhUQEIlivWeLgQvQ&s=19

You win the event with the highest combined weight of three different lifts. Anne broke the previous Canadian record, which had stood for some time. As in most elite sports records are usually broken by small margins. In power lifting that might be a few kilograms. However Anne established a new record, breaking the previous record by 210 kilograms. What a champion. ☹️
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October 25, 2023 9:18am
- I remember when
  
  I see Avi Silverberg knew the answer.
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:41am
- RoboRob
  
  ‘A ~~woman named~~ man identiying as a Woman calling himself Anne Andres recently won the Canadian Power Lifting Championship
  
  FTFY
  
  So many new womans records are being set that will never be beaten by an actual woman. Its almost like the heavy drug period of the olympics where the Russian and East German teams set massive records that international sports are slowly trying to erase from history.
  
  Why on earth haven’t sports set up a third category for this stuff I dont know. How about Mens, Womans and Alternate?
  
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  October 25, 2023 9:55am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Its almost like the heavy drug period of the olympics where the Russian and East German teams set massive records …”
    
    Actually, it is way worse.
    
    20 0
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    October 25, 2023 10:12am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Opera used to have Castrato’s,
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:23am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    They’ll get tired of it when they’ve smashed all the easy records. They’ll likely then move to identifying as primary school kids, take the egg and spoon race record then boast about it on social media.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:23am
  - thirteenstars
    
    You don’t need an Alternate category. You have one for women and an open category. Problem solved.
    
    There’s no argument against an open category because it is the most inclusive, equitable and diverse category possible.
    
    😉
    
    6 0
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    October 25, 2023 2:08pm
- Local Miller
  
  Woman do themselves a serious disservice when they support this garbage.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:48am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Didn’t Southpark do an episode on that too?
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:40pm
Jack5

Add to the mess Labour’s left inside the house …

The Wall Street Journal, sadly behind its paywall, has a report about New Zealand dairy farming being hit by slower demand from China.

I’ll cheekily pinch one paragraph:

” … Chinese demand for milk, which historically has been viewed as a bit of a luxury, has also slumped amid the economic slowdown, as Chinese dairy companies have been ramping up production. The resulting supply glut has reduced China’s need to get milk from overseas. One measure of New Zealand’s dairy exports to China, which includes fresh milk, milk powder, butter and cheese, fell 31% by value in September compared with the same month last year.

The newspaper says dairy prices are now down nearly 40 per cent compared with March last year.
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October 25, 2023 9:19am
- Jack5
  
  NZ is a leader in bugger all industries except agriculture, horticulture, and in at least one species, forestry.
  
  Leaders are followed. On a far more substantial level, Britain’s Industrial Revolution spread to America and Europe and then round the world.
  
  China now has about 36 per cent more cows than NZ.
  
  Kiwifruit, NZ-engineered from Chinese gooseberries, are now grown in many countries. The Monterey pine, protected as an indigenous tree in California, was scientifically modified in NZ into radiata pine, now profitably grown in several countries. NZ was a pioneer in deer farming.
  
  You don’t keep a lead for long, but we have often been foolishly proud of helping other countries follow our export successes.
  
  A healthier reaction would be, “Hell, they’re on to us, we’d better keep forging ahead.”
  
  And, “We’ve just got to carry the bloody Greenies”.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:11am
Benedict Yu

I was thinking yesterday that we are still too close to the last government to truly appreciate how terrible it was and the damage it did to the country. It is one of those events that will not fade with time. Rather as we go forward, perceptions of the extent of the damage will be amplified.
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October 25, 2023 9:23am
Matt Long

The Advocate implies the Tom Mulholland, mental health campaigner, author and health activist took his own life.
Everyone needs to reach out for a helping hand sometimes.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/far-north-community-pays-tribute-to-dr-tom-mulholland-an-icon-in-our-community/EJDAPIPI4JG7RFG7RP4RGGX6DY/
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October 25, 2023 9:27am
slightlyrighty

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350097507/neighbour-speaks-nightmare-tenants-lead-toddlers-death

Silly First name syndrome strikes again. Whanau Ora should have been there as soon as that child was named.
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October 25, 2023 9:38am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Dats such a ruthless and empirical name eh!
  
  16 0
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  October 25, 2023 9:58am
- Gravelroad
  
  Four dogs- which were frequently beaten…..
  So where were the animal control people or the SPCA?
  I didn’t realise that state house “tenants” could have four unhappy dogs living in their midst.
  
  16 0
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  October 25, 2023 10:41am
- Ehlana
  
  To do what? If they take the child away from whanau, they are accused of evil colonialism.
  
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  October 25, 2023 12:36pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Poor little fellow – I saw the myriad of other names after the first hyphenated two and my heart weep. I hope the scum who ended his life get appropriate penalties rather than this bullshit cultural report rubbish
  
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  October 25, 2023 5:04pm
Maggie Pie

Imagine being a business-owner in the City Center 🙁

The legacy of 6 years under Labour with that idiot Goff as Mayor….

“Auckland’s Queen Street has an atmosphere of dishevelment and anything goes, people lying all over the street, lying on footpaths, in doorways. It’s degrading the environment and it’s clearly giving signals that this place is not safe”

– Mike Lee (Auckland City Councillor)
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October 25, 2023 9:47am
- lifesgood
  
  I thought vagrancy was a crime. Queen St is just awful. I am ashamed of my once beautiful city. There is absolutely no excuse for these layabouts all over the footpath. We have social welfare and various other agencies to look after them. Mind you, it’s not only Auckland, Wellington is worse and Christchurch is pretty bad too.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:01am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    And hearing this (as I wouldn’t chose to pop down there to visit) … I wonder how the hell Chloe was voted back in????
    
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    October 25, 2023 5:05pm
    - peterwn
      
      Chloe would have received votes from disenchanted former Labour voters. Also why the Greens managed to win two seats in Wellington.
      
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      October 25, 2023 8:31pm
  - peterwn
    
    Vagrancy like drunk in a public place was removed from Criminal law quite some time back. An indication of vagrancy was not having sufficient cash on you for a night’s accommodation (never mind if you had a home to go to). In the 1930’s a guy was arrested in Queen Street for vagrancy and sentenced to two months in Mt Eden despite having a family and home.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:38pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Maggie – indeed, I recently took my 13 year old to see Oppenheimer at Imax. Going for a feed afterwards was a very unpleasant experience. We won’t be back in a hurry.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:26am
  - MCōs
    
    What did you think of the movie?
    Apparently it’s based on the 2005 book ‘American Prometheus’ that I read about ten years ago.
    The book is very impressive except Ernest Rutherford is described as British!
    It seems the error was corrected in later editions
    
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    October 25, 2023 12:47pm
    - HeatherW
      
      Technically Ernest Rutherford was a British subject as NZ Citizenship didn’t start until the British Nationality and New Zealand Citizenship Act 1948.
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:07pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      MCōs – I thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn’t know the political back story re his tentative links to the Communist groups in American academia or the subsequent smear campaign against him. Very long and I could do with another watch to go back over some of the detail. But it was about much more than the creation of the bomb.
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:21pm
      - MCōs
        
        I don’t know if it’s covered in the film, but Oppenheimer had trouble gaining admission to university in the US because there were limits on Jews
        
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        October 25, 2023 2:39pm
- Rusty
  
  I haven’t walked up Queen street in years even though I have lived in the inner city suburbs all my life. People tell me it is depressing looking and little is being done to help the homeless.
  
  Legacy of Ardernism.
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:31am
  - kevn
    
    Rusty… My mates 2 boys used to love going to Queen St on Saturday nights… for a fight.
    
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    October 25, 2023 1:05pm
    - Rusty
      
      @kevn
      
      That reminds of the good ole days back in the 70s
      
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      October 25, 2023 5:31pm
- Paulus
  
  My son who is 50 and lives in the AK CBD in a Parnell townhouse will not go near Queen Street after dark.
  And he is a big very fit lad !
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:15pm
Jack5

The inquest into the death of the 51 Muslims killed in the Christchurch massacres in 2019 is focused on what happened after the shooting, according to the report in the Guardian.

A TV report said about 20 lawyers are involved.

The Guardian says the earlier Royal commission of inquiry into the shooting was instructed to examine only events before shots were fired.

It concluded the attack could not have been prevented “except by chance”, while a police summary of its own response, released in 2021, said all those killed sustained unsurvivable injuries, and none would have lived if treated sooner.

Presumably most of the hundred casualties were suddenly taken into Christchurch Hospital. As it had during the big earthquake, the hospital was up to the task.

The police had the killer in custody in under half an hour.

Did we have mass inquests as well as commissions of inquiry into events with a comparable death toll, such as the Erebus air crash or the Tangiwai rail crash in 1953?
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October 25, 2023 9:53am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner’s mum was telling me that TV News last night referred to it as….
  “New Zealand’s darkest day.”
  
  But like you say, she also thort that would have more likely been Erebus or the Chch earthquake.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Lest we forget…
    
    October 12 1917
    
    New Zealand historian Ian McGibbon’s extensive research into this country’s toll showed 957 Kiwi soldiers died from that one push.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97732746/the-battle-of-passchendaele-new-zealands-militarys-darkest-day#:~:text=PASSCHENDAELE'S%20BLOODY%20TOLL,Zealand%20casualties%20at%20that%20time.&text=*%201796%20died%20during%20the%20Passchendaele%20offensive.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:12am
    - Jack5
      
      Or the 150 New Zealand sailors who died when the British cruiser, Neptune, was sunk by mines off the North African coast on 19 December 1941.
      
      https://navymuseum.co.nz/explore/by-themes/world-war-two-by-themes/the-loss-of-hms-neptune/
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:18am
      - Ian Boag
        
        1931 Napier Quake … ?
        
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        October 25, 2023 8:23pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    New Zealand has its darkest day annually every June 22 (or there abouts).
    
    18 1
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    October 25, 2023 10:35am
    - Matt Long
      
      That depends on cloud cover, in fact New Zealand’s darkest day was 17 October 2020
      
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      October 25, 2023 11:23am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Not sure what your point is. Is it that we should have had inquests into those events, or that if we didn’t then, we shouldn’t now? You don’t think there’s anything useful that might be learned about emergency responses, preparedness etc?
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:45am
- Master Mariner
  
  Whats the point of an Inquest ?
  Surely the purpose ? would be too identify the Root Cause?
  ie How the Police issued him a license in the first place ? Fit and Proper person and all.//
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:05am
- MCōs
  
  A coronial inquest was held into the Mt Erebus crash in Jan 1980 plus a royal commission of inquiry was conducted by Justice Mahon. ‘Litany of lies’ and all that.
  A board of inquiry sat after the Tangawai disaster
  Coroner’s courts were set up in Waiouru to indentify the deceased
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:08pm
  - Jack5
    
    Thanks, MCos, I should have looked that up myself.
    
    I note that at the Mt Erebus crash coroner’s inquest seems to have been about identification and chances of survival ( first link below).
    
    New Zealand coroners were holding a conference in Christchurch when the mosque shootings occurred in 2019, and coroners participated in the identification process (second link).
    
    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/coroners-inquest-erebus-disaster
    and
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117406088/an-inside-look-into-how-the-victims-of-the-christchurch-terror-attack-were-returned-to-their-families
    
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    October 25, 2023 2:59pm
- Paulus
  
  Understand that following the conclusion of the Inquest the final report will not be released until the middle of next year until everybody concerned has had a chance to review the report.
  And that means thousands of people I expect.
  So 2025.
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:19pm
  - Jack5
    
    Total costs will likely be several million dollars.
    
    It would be better to give the money, or some of the money, to massacre survivors left disabled or orphaned.
    
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    October 25, 2023 9:41pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Where has all the money gone, Labour?

Here’s a snapshot. A US not-for-profit is launching a satellite to measure methane. NZ wants to understand cow flatulence, so MBIE chipped in $30m.

Turns out that while the satellite will be fine for detecting gas flare plumes, cow flatulence is too dispersed to measure.

Meanwhile, $90m later, the Agricultural Greenhouse Gas Research Centre at Massey Uni ‘has done well on everything except its primarily goal. On that, officials conclude, “there is still a shortfall in feasible and practical mitigation options”.’ Though to be fair, this one started under John Key.

Other peoples’ money, hey.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/10/nz-space-agency-s-29m-investment-in-methane-satellite-unlikely-to-improve-farm-emission-estimates.html

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133168644/is-a-90m-project-to-cool-cow-burps-working
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October 25, 2023 9:55am
- Jack5
  
  More of Labour’s mad, mad money spending.
  
  Psychologists talk of a “money disorders”: persistent patterns of self-destructive and self-limiting financial behaviors.
  
  The Ardern-Hipkins Misgovernment fits the symptoms.
  
  Specifically, in the psychologist’s views linked to below, in the classification of “compulsive buying – overspending on steroids”.
  
  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-over-money/201001/do-you-have-money-disorder
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:32am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Accountability stages need to be se in funding contracts. That is step 1? Yes, then more cash, step 2? No? No more cash simple.
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:37am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  We’re supposed to invest in technology trials only if we know beforehand that they are going to work?
  
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  October 25, 2023 10:42am
- mogg
  
  The Pub Landlord on economics; https://youtu.be/KKma8rKhUlU?si=apBSHyibnJiA1GaH.
  You can’t argue with that!
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:05am
Jack5

Whoops, posted in wrong spot. Cancelled.
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October 25, 2023 10:31am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Fine, but Maori can use Traditional bone hooks, and woven flax lines. Stones for sinkers. Using the evil Colonialist White Man/s modern gear would make them hypocrites.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/huge-area-of-hauraki-gulf-to-be-designated-maori-only-fishing-area-this-is-apartheid-plain-and-simple/?
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October 25, 2023 10:37am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If it is over-fished, why not select a large part of it as a marine reserve? Then for the remaining part, set conservative catch limits. If that is one or two fish per person so be it. Apply the rules to every person.
  
  Maybe I just see things too simplistically. 🙁
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:05am
  - cmm
    
    You just off the boat or something?
    
    Come on BY, you know how things operate.
    
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    October 25, 2023 1:54pm
- Terry Dalee
  
  No, Maori fish magically don’t deplete the overall bio mass…
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:38am
  - kevn
    
    Terry…. The Fisheries enforcement TV programme showed early settlers to be a non conservation type.
    
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    October 25, 2023 1:07pm
- cmm
  
  NZ is one of very few countries in the world that does not seem to have any marine reserves.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:53pm
  - Jack5
    
    DOC says it manages 44 New Zealand marine reserves:
    
    https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/habitats/marine/type-1-marine-protected-areas-marine-reserves/purpose-and-benefits/
    
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    October 25, 2023 4:00pm
OverseasKiwi

It is now clear that this is the most dangerous situation in world politics since the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. The neocons and neoliberals have got their wish, in that the USA is actively pursuing a strategy which will bring about, at the minimum, a regional war, and, at worst, a confrontation between the USA and Russia/China. I cannot see the latter, should it occur, limited to conventional warfare. Indeed, the neocons see this as an opportunity to impose US control over Iran and Syria. They should be calming the war down, not inflaming it.

I would conjecture two outcomes, excluding the possibility of nuclear war. First, Israel cannot win this war – it is beyond the nation’s military capability. Urban combat in Gaza would cost thousands, if not tens of thousands, of badly trained, disciplined, and equipped reservists (this is why the Russians spent six months preparing their reservists for combat against Ukraine). To win, Hamas just needs to survive, not to defeat Israel militarily. The Israelis have already lost dozens of soldiers and about ten tanks against Hezbollah. Israel has a slight advantage against its collective adversaries, not much margin for error.

Second, US authority has collapsed in the Middle East. No one trusts Biden or the US generally any more. It has become increasingly clear that the US is no longer able to sustain its position as global hegemon. One may go further and assert that the pre-1914 multipolar world has returned. In sum, those countries which have allied (i.e subject states like the United Kingdom or Japan) with the US will soon find themselves in a position where they cannot rely upon the US for military support, or use the US to further their own interests.

Certainly an interesting time to be alive. Let us hope that we are still around in six months, so that we can discuss more mundane matters important for New Zealand!
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October 25, 2023 11:00am
- NothingLeft
  
  Might the IDF be intent upon using ground invasion of Gaza as cover to just level the place (using ostensible combat to excuse the collateral destruction)? Urban combat is a lot easier if you don’t have to take any care to preserve buildings.
  
  The middle east will fall apart because of overpopulation. All Arab populations, particularly Palestinians, have increased 10-20x since WW2. The pressures that produces inevitably drives increased conflict. Gaza with 4-5% annual pop growth and 2.3 million people is doomed in very short order if the wall stays up.
  
  Russia is falling apart. Seriously depleted in almost every respect. Watch travel videos of inner Russia/ex USSR and everything is crumbling and dying, ghost towns everywhere, it’s a miserable place with barely survivable climate, and everyone who has options leaves – urbanizing or emigrating, so they continually lose the brains and youths essential to maintaining a technological country. With their conventional military nearly gone it will collapse into regional warlordism in coming decades, and most younger people will emigrate to better lives in Europe (who will be desperate for workers).
  
  China is similarly falling apart as western business disengage and move elsewhere and their property ponzi falls apart destroying 100’s of millions of highly leveraged peoples life’s savings. 50% of Chinese are still in extreme poverty (half their population living on <$2000/year) and their demographics are in collapse (3x as many 50 year olds as 5 year olds, real population already in decline, and likely only ~1.3billion due to lies in official stats, with all the missing 100million being in the young age group)
  
  Xi and Putin will both be lucky to survive the precipitous declines in their economies that they have manufactured through their hegemonic belligerence, and can probably only do so by becoming more viscous and repressive which will only exacerbate their countries decline.
  
  Xi will look at Russia's sharp Ukraine caused slide and likely think better of trying to invade Taiwan. China is critically dependent on foreign energy, food and mineral supplies, far less self-reliant than Russia.
  
  I think the big danger is actually Iran, led by fundamentalists who think death in conflict is actually a good thing, and who likely (undeclared) now have the bomb and are building up sufficient stocks to provide an effective MAD deterrence to attack (they have enough centrifuges to make a few a week, the engineering is 1940's tech, made much much easier with modern machine tools and robots, and Persians are smart). Good chance they will vaporize Israel in coming decades.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:00pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I reckon the JDAM is going to feature a lot in the clearance of Gaza.
    Someone shooting at you?
    Mark the spot and call in the F16
    Boom
    Move forward and repeat.
    Apparently they are into the tunnels already.
    Those new Merkava 5 Tanks seem set up for Urban warfare. Israeli experience shows that anti tank missiles aren’t that effective against it.
    But I think you are right about Israel’s intent for Gaza.
    Turn it into a wasteland and call it peace.
    
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    October 25, 2023 2:27pm
- cmm
  
  “It is now clear that this is the most dangerous situation in world politics since the Cuban missile crisis of 1962.”
  
  Perhaps true for a very US-centric definition of “the world”.
  
  Far more serious things have happened before and since.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:56pm
Maggie Pie

My partner reckons all those lazy Labor, Maori, and Green party losers wont be happy!

Christopher want’s the house to sit thru till Dec 21st rather than the usual Dec 14th.
And then want’s to commence back by the 3rd week in January rather than Feb.

It’s time the country was run like a business rather than a welfare agency!!
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October 25, 2023 11:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good idea. One thing that amazed me about New Zealand on arrival was the ‘radio silence’ from Government for almost two months from mid-December through the start of February.
  
  Given what needs to be done, that would be absurd. They can have three weeks off like the rest of us (if we are lucky).
  
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  October 25, 2023 11:08am
  - Jack5
    
    Has the Productivity Commission ever looked at the cost of the country’s December-January shutdowns?
    
    Oh, that’s right, that would include the commission staff’s holidays.
    
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    October 25, 2023 11:25am
- kevn
  
  Maggie… I heard the same, time to crack on folks. All of the elected ones.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:09pm
- MCōs
  
  It’ll be the Nats MPs who’ll be pissed off, if anyone is.
  They’ll be the ones doing the grunt work as the new government spends the summer doing all that stuff they promised in the first hundred days
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:10pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    Sorry, but you clearly think they are the same as the last Mob. There aren’t too many unionites or public servants amongst the current NACTNZF intakes.
    
    And what better time to ram stuff through? Even you will be on holiday.
    
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    October 26, 2023 12:17am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  and on Newshub three hours ago, some overweight asian woman called Romy was bitching about how he is going to run the country like a company and ‘me and my friends didn’t vote for him’. Some other university wombat of the female gender said Luxon is the least popular of any prime minister… the poor guy hasn’t yet put his feet under the desk
  
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  October 25, 2023 5:09pm
  - Flossie
    
    I agree Hen.
    This “uses corporate speak” and so on….give some examples please. Does this Romy prefer the kindy-teacher speak we had five years of.
    
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    October 25, 2023 6:41pm
Maggie Pie

That poor baby who died in Lower Hutt is a truly dreadful story.
And I also wonder how safe the home was he lived in ?
Look at the power-lines running into it from the pole. What a mess! Who’s responsible for that I wonder? Looks like an accident waiting to happen 🙁

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1716941511193940427

I don’t know whether that’s normal for houses in The Hutt or not, but considering ‘Wellington Electricity’ is owned by one of China’s richest families, you’d think they would take better care of their customers. It’s shocking!

We were undergrounded years ago.
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October 25, 2023 11:41am
- John Loveridge
  
  What kind of people call their child “Ruthless-Empire Souljah Reign Rhind Shepherd Wall”?
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:17pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Elon Musk named his son… Tau Techno Mechanicus
    
    But like my ol’ gran always said ….money can’t buy you class 😎
    
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    October 25, 2023 1:58pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      I have to say that Elon’s effort is a little less objectionable than that of poor little Ruthless-Empire Souljah Reign’s feral and clearly mentally-challenged parents.
      
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      October 25, 2023 2:02pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Don’t pop over to Epsom then Maggie!! We have overhead wires and when something is not right with them, we pay through the nose to have it fixed …
  
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  October 25, 2023 5:10pm
- peterwn
  
  The Government regulatory agencies are responsible. The old elected Hutt Valley Energy Board (they did both power and gas) adopted a policy of getting all urban power lines underground over 10 years or so. Part of my job (until I got the boot) was helping to organise and manage this work. We were making good progress until the government changed things and the regulatory agencies decreed that the power companies could make profits that covered the cost of this work. So it all got frozen in time.
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:16pm
lifesgood

NZ should take a leaf out of the Texan sheriff, Joe Arpaio’s book. He made all the prisoners wear pink and they did not like it. He also put them on a modern equivalent of chain gangs.
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October 25, 2023 12:01pm
- Steve Todd
  
  He was the Sheriff of Maricopa County [Phoenix], Arizona (from 1993 to 2017).
  
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  October 25, 2023 12:53pm
  - peterwn
    
    And Maricopa County has a similar population to NZ to put things in perspective.
    
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    October 25, 2023 7:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I hadn’t realised Ardern and her cronies had a very close relationship with Countdown/Woolworths… but now I understand why Ardern made sure that all dairies and green grocers, butchers etc were closed during Covid lockdowns.

Another RNZ investigation described the close relationships between Labour and the supermarkets: Jacinda Ardern’s former deputy press secretary is head of public relations for Woolworths; Chris Hipkins’ Chief of Staff was a lobbyist for the sector – he famously resigned a day before taking up his role in the Prime Minister’s Office – and he arranged dinners between Countdown executives and ministers, including Grant Robertson.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/10/25/danyl-mclauchlan-notes-towards-an-alt-centrist-manifesto/#more-25080
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October 25, 2023 12:32pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, Muslim butchers remained open with ‘special dispensation’.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:02pm
- Swifty
  
  Suicides resulted from our small business lockdowns – with business owners unable to cope with the loss of their livelihoods.
  
  Suicides and resultant family devastation that didn’t need to happen in my view.
  
  The logic appeared to me to be “We will close everything not essential, but we regard supermarkets as essential.”
  
  Whereas the focus in my mind should have been on safety and “if you can continue to provide your goods or services safely you may remain open.”
  
  I fail to see how the family-run butcher (one or very, very few bubbles) who, for example, could do pay and collect at the front door was clearly and greatly less safe than hundreds of staff (literally many tens or hundreds of bubbles) congregating daily in one supermarket to serve hundreds or thousands of customers (from hundreds or thousands of bubbles) – and allowing them inside, all touching the same surfaces, goods, trolleys, baskets etc.
  
  I just never understood the logic – and that goes doubly for all the lockdowns after the first one. It’s like they had no evaluation of the first, and it’s consequences, and no lessons learned and just re-implemented the same restrictions regardless.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:17pm
- cmm
  
  Far too many lobbyists – on both sides of the isle.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:18pm
Maggie Pie

JUST IN

We’re at 6’s & 7’s whether to send flowers or not…..

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1716948856590479516
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October 25, 2023 12:39pm
- Jethrod
  
  How about six of one, half a dozen of the other!
  Saves a trial.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:17pm
- cmm
  
  Pity he got the order wrong.
  
  For future reference crims: First top yourself, then go on a crime spree.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:22pm
kevn

Maggie… That’s a hard one. What about a line-up of dairy owners with hockey sticks?
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October 25, 2023 1:13pm
ecco

I heard on Hosking’s show this morning that Seymour is wanting to disclose the coalition agreement following negotiations. I think this is a bit of an over reach. He is on 9%, Luxon is on 39%. This is Luxon’s call. Not Seymour’s.

I’ve voted Act the last 4 elections. However if Seymour is trying to do a tail wagging the dog exercise then I’m quite happy for the Nats to go back for a second election and seek a fresh mandate, in which case I would vote Nats. (same applies to NZF if they want to try and over reach).

The noises Seymour is making, do not impress me, even though I’ve been a long standing Act supporter.

Been very impressed with Luxon in the way he has got everyone involved in negotiations to STFU. However it seems like Seymour is starting to do his own thing. Unfortunately.
Let’s hope Luxon runs this place like a business. NZ needs it desperately after the charades of the last 6 years.
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October 25, 2023 1:22pm
- lifesgood
  
  Seymour was already getting too big for his boots during the election campaign. He needs to pull his head in.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:47pm
- Colville
  
  We were all scathing about the hidden agenda of NZF/Jacinda post election in 2017 so why wouldnt we want NatACT/NZF to open the books??
  
  I am all for it.
  
  Nothing that is agreed shouldnt stand public scrutiny.
  
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  October 25, 2023 1:50pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Disclosing the agreement creates a massive contrast with the previous Government. It also sets a good precedent.
  It would be the opposite of the tail wagging the dog because we would have all the information, as opposed to what Winston did last time.
  And of course it’s Seymour’s call just as much as it’s Luxon’s. Luxon may require a trade for it (it is a negotiation) but that’s a terrible move.
  
  Many of us are sick of the corrupt dealings of the last 6 years and actually want an open and transparent government. Especially since Winston will be involved.
  
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  October 25, 2023 2:34pm
- Jack5
  
  Luxon has said a second general election could be a fallback position.
  
  If the ACT Party causes that it might not get to the 5 per cent threshold.
  
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  October 25, 2023 3:07pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    By (checks notes) wanting the government to be open and transparent?
    If Luxon takes us to another election on the platform of not wanting to be open and transparent, National will be finished.
    
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    October 25, 2023 4:04pm
    - Jack5
      
      Libertarians are right’s …National will be finished.
      
      It might just survive, but I doubt ACT would.
      
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      October 25, 2023 8:32pm
      - Colville
        
        You think that by ACT staying true to what they said and National being deceitful ACT would get punished?
        
        Seems backwards to me…
        
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        October 25, 2023 10:37pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Two things i could see ACT winning re-election over are emissions and a treaty referendum. I’m fine with negotiations remaining secret until the specials are counted, i do have a problem with the time it takes and why there are so many special votes to begin with when there is early voting.
  
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  October 25, 2023 5:11pm
  - kevn
    
    Llama… I wonder what proportion of the specials are overseas voting?
    
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    October 25, 2023 7:31pm
    - Colville
      
      80,000/567,000 are overseas.
      
      Ummm… a seventh? so 14%??
      
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      October 25, 2023 10:40pm
- peterwn
  
  Despite lack of political experience Chris L would be a top negotiator. He has had previous experience negotiating with the likes of Boeing and Airbus and selling things like OMO. To him the negotiations are just another day at the office (not quite!).
  
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  October 25, 2023 7:09pm
Swifty

With respected and clear-sighted clerics such as these leading the Muslim effort, I see great hope in the future of Islamic-Jewish cooperation and tolerance:

https://x.com/GadSaad/status/1396089451063959554?

//
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October 25, 2023 1:34pm
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300995562/rugby-world-cup-could-you-get-to-the-all-blacks-final-if-you-wanted-to-how-much-would-it-cost

I was at the 2003 final in Sydney on a “work” trip with a mate.
We had lunch in Darling Harbour at a poncy steakhouse, table next to us was 8 English barristers (the expensive lawyer ones not the coffee making ones) who had flown first class the previous day and were there for 3 nights . Had purchased tickets from a scalper in England for three times face value. So all up there were probably $25K per person to see the game. We drunk gallons of very good wine and they paid for us. Not a blink.
England won in the last minutes.
Game was like watching paint dry.
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October 25, 2023 1:56pm
- Swifty
  
  Hahahaha!
  
  Great story Colville.
  
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  October 25, 2023 6:23pm
  - Colville
    
    The hangover was of epic proportions.
    
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    October 25, 2023 10:41pm
Maggie Pie

There’s 5 million people in Palestine, you’d think Palliwood could get more than one to audition for the part 😎

This is the 4th vid I’ve seen this week starring the same ‘child’

https://twitter.com/Parshang11/status/1716860738717798602

The monitors aren’t even going. LOL!!
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October 25, 2023 2:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, that fake hospital bed scene looks straight out of Shortland St.
  
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  October 25, 2023 3:56pm
Ehlana

Sean Plunket on Twitter asks: Should
@jacindaardern reconsider her fellowship at
@Harvard given the institutions support of antisemitism and terrorism?

If we say yes, does she come back to NZ?
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October 25, 2023 3:03pm
- NothingLeft
  
  She must be horribly embarrassed even talking to the staff and students at Harvard who are so far above her intellectually that she may as well be a chimpanzee.
  
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  October 25, 2023 3:43pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Does not ardern support of antisemitism and terrorism?
  
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  October 25, 2023 4:16pm
kevn

Swifty… Funny breed of cattle aren’t they?
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October 25, 2023 3:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Get a load of this. Te Party Maori did not get enough votes so it is the fault of the Electoral Commission, e hoa.
I wonder if Debbie Ngarewa Packer wants “appointed” Maori seats??

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/te-p%C4%81ti-m%C4%81ori-co-leader-debbie-ngarewa-packer-calls-election-day-a-disgraceful-event-for-m%C4%81ori-electoral-commission-disagrees/ar-AA1iMkjm
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October 25, 2023 3:42pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I am getting rather sick of comments from wahine about the Maori Party. In my local Maori electorate there were sixty (60!) polling booths available which had no, repeat no, Maori votes cast whatsoever.
  The party vote form was so difficult that 7.32% of the voting forms lodged at our local marae polling booth were ruled to be informal votes.
  I wonder if they voted for Labour and the Maori party. Another type of double dipping.
  
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  October 25, 2023 6:26pm
  - trout
    
    The Maori Party has bragged that they can manipulate MMP voting to advantage by promoting 2 votes; a TPM electorate vote and a Labour party party vote; thereby creating an overhang; minimal TPM party votes and maximum electorate votes. Taken to the extreme TPM would have 7 maori MP’s without taking Party votes away from labour. Clever eh!
    
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    October 25, 2023 7:22pm
- HeatherW
  
  Debbie’s seat Te Tau Hauauru had 4 candidates and over 470 polling booths (some were pop-ups and the advance booths listed twice if also open on election day). The General seat that covers some of the same area was Wanganui with 6 candidates and fewer than 90 polling booths. Some of the 0 vote booths were where there were fewer than 6 votes recorded (to maintain privacy).
  Short of the polling agents going to each Maori voter individually what more could the Electoral Commision do?
  Statistics available for each electorate down to polling booth available on electionresults.govt.nz
  
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  October 25, 2023 7:26pm
  - MCōs
    
    The Te Tau Hauauru electorate extends from near Wellington to south of Cambridge. I would suggest that there a no polling booths dedicated only to the Māori roll, but they are combined with whatever electoral areas encompass
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:25pm
Maggie Pie

JUST IN

$tuffed reports……
Newshub’s political reporter Lloyd Burr says he knew he was gay at 6.
Wishes he’d come out sooner.

LISTEN:

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/full-disclosure-podcast/
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October 25, 2023 4:10pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie… Bingo, instant labour party membership. Go on burr, join up with 70% of the members.
  
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  October 25, 2023 4:30pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Like my partner says Kevie…”Human beings are made in such a way that we should live in a partnership according to God and nature. If someone wants to live differently, that’s his problem. But he shouldn’t flaunt it to others”
    
    … [Not without evidence thanks. mod.]
    
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    October 25, 2023 5:00pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      mod,,,,I was talking about my partner, silly! 😛
      
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      October 25, 2023 6:36pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, he can now go to Iraq on a mission for his employer. Oh wait…
  
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  October 25, 2023 4:36pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Wishes he’d come out sooner? As what? No one gives a tiny trike in triplicate that he is gay.
  
  Maybe he’ll come out soon as a professional….he was once upon a time.
  
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  October 25, 2023 4:39pm
Maggie Pie

#5

Chippie admits if he’d had any say in the matter, there’s no way he would have recommended Cindy for a damehood.
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October 25, 2023 6:41pm
- kevn
  
  Maggie…
  #6. hipkins know he will NEVER get a gong. Just envious thoughts.
  
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  October 25, 2023 7:34pm
Maggie Pie

OMG……and now this 🙁

Winston says Cindy KNEW about the March 15 mosque massacre….
BEFORE IT HAPPENED!!

https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1717057201259577695

So who else did then??
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October 25, 2023 7:11pm
- MCōs
  
  Winston is full of shit.
  The email was sent to the PM’s office a few minutes before the attack began and the person who vets emails rang 111 and was talking to the operator when the attack commenced
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/10/full-transcript-first-111-call-about-christchurch-mosque-terror-attacks-released-by-deputy-chief-coroner.html
  
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  October 25, 2023 8:08pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    BIG CALL from you there Cossie 😀
    Thort i recalled you saying you voted for Winnie in 2020?
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:24pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Winston is full of shit.
    Also; water is wet.
    
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    October 25, 2023 8:52pm
alan

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
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October 25, 2023 10:00pm
- kevn
  
  WPo story from 9 years ago… could be challenging.
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
  or a more current wordy version…
  https://swprs.org/why-israel-created-hamas/
  
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  October 26, 2023 7:33am
Jack5

Police have dropped a firearms charge against a Canterbury University student, after initial charges created campus panic.

He apparently still faces lesser charges, but it was the police firearms charge that created panic among students, and incited alarmist reports of guns in the student’s room.

It sounds as though a baton and a pocket knife may have been what were found, plus legally held ammunition for the student’s sports club shooting.

The Christchurch Press has a brief video clip of the result of the case, but the fuller report is blanked to non-subscribers.

So much for the State subsidies to help ensure court and local body reports.
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