General Debate 07 November 2023

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I remember when

Gee, that’s a surprise.
Sam Cane gets three weeks for his red card in world cup final.
Makes you wonder why there is a Judiary, surely all that’s needed is a red card level (Level 1 three weeks, etc.) with an automatic stand down period.
Who thinks that Sam Cane’s red card is really going to make rugby safer?
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November 7, 2023 8:21am
- Scott
  
  When you look at the incident in real time it seems like nothing. It’s only when you slow it right down and forensically examine every detail and go through all these new laws for player “safety” that you see any incident at all.
  
  I think the rules of the game and the way it is refereed need changing back to common sense. Sam Cane’s sending off was incredibly harsh and now 3 weeks penalty compounds the injustice in my opinion.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:32am
  - Don Beckett
    
    This level of TMO interference in the refereeing of Rugby is making the championship games unwatchable – 30 minutes wasted by TMO forensically examining every incident.
    If it doesn’t change, no more watching World cup rugby for me.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Only 16 upticks Don. Should be 116.
      The TMO are spoiling the game of Rugby in the name of safety.
      Nek minute there will be road cones all over the field so the TMOs can investigate and go back X phases to change the result.
      Can’t tell me that Rugby is not being rigged for the money guys, just like that round ball game.
      
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      November 7, 2023 5:59pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Now how about the shoulder to Kanes head, snd the other head knock that was only yellow card
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:37am
  - Opie
    
    Kolosis was an accidental head clash. Shouldn’t even have been yellow.
    
    Canes was a shoulder to the head…
    
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    November 7, 2023 9:47am
    - Colville
      
      Canes was a chest on chest tackle with Canes arm hitting him below his shoulder, Cane was stationary and the tackled player fell into Canes shoulder hitting it with his head.
      
      Just redcard all tackles? play tiddlywinks instead?
      
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      November 7, 2023 10:19am
      - mawm
        
        Cane’s shoulder hit his head before his arm. That alone should be a card.
        
        Head trauma can manifest itself years down the line. I suspect that World Rugby is doing its best to protect heads from high tackles……and itself from litigation.
        
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        November 8, 2023 4:47pm
    - I remember when
      
      All head clashes have an element of accidental.
      Kolisi was moving while Savea was stationary.
      Savea ‘s nose was treated almost immediately.
      Kriel was moving while Cane was almost stationary.
      Kriel played on moving to around halfway and back before play was halted.
      The side of his jaw was examined and Cane may have suffered because a true view may have been from the side, not head-on.
      
      Incidentally, if player safety is the aim, why are all players who have such head contact not referred for HIA.
      Tacklers included if it is head on head.
      
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      November 7, 2023 12:43pm
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        Agree. Whilst I personally think it’s currently a little too strict, the reason the rules were brought in was player safety. The SA captain hit Ardie’s head with extreme force.
        
        Did he mean to hit him head on head? Course not but the outcome of a forceful connection to the head happened and he was reckless and dangerous. We’re either stopping that outcome or we’re not.
        
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        November 7, 2023 7:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  TMO = control freaks.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:39am
  - Nickc2
    
    Honours Graduates from the Jacinda Ardern Academy of Control Freaks.
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:07am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    
    The tmo is like having a forensic examination whilst the crime is still in progress.
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:18am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    Not all of them but Foley is.
    
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    November 7, 2023 7:36pm
- alex Masterley
  
  World Rugby is destroying the game of Rugby.
  Surely being red carded in a world cup final is enough?
  Instead Sam Cane has to endure more odium.
  The television review people should be red carded themselves.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Who reviews the reviewers?
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:09am
    - imalwaysright
      
      The reviewer reviewers?
      Don’t give them any ideas S.
      
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      November 7, 2023 10:19am
- mogg
  
  Ask Brad Thorne for his opinion, he will know better than most.
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Error establishing a database connection
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November 7, 2023 8:55am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes. DPF should give whoever is managing his tech stack a jolly good kicking. It’s not rocket science.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If it is Inspire Net, here is their number.
    0800 484 363
    I did mention the other day that they are not providing the service paid for.
    
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    November 7, 2023 9:14am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Seems to have settled now.
      
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      November 7, 2023 9:39am
- O C Smith
  
  Just need to hit the refresh button, are wondering if the maybe some 3rd party sabotage towards KB.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:10am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Guarantee it, it was slow most the campaign, and we all know how dirty Labour is
    
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    November 7, 2023 9:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Not just dirty, downright nasty. Worse than the bloody Democrats.
      
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      November 7, 2023 9:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Refresh does nothing. Could not even open KB let alone log in.
    If I could get a comment, when hitting ‘Post Comment” it goes to the error message.
    
    Wonder if it is all a DOS attack?
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:15am
I remember when

Was the Kolisi yellow versus red card decision a BLM/white guilt result?
Kolisi ran in from ten metres away to tackle Savea who was being held in a tackle.
Savea was pinned in the tackle of Vermeulen and although there was mention of Savea’s head lowering this did not really occur after he landed.
The tackle was high because Vermeulen’s position meant Kolisi made a left arm, right shoulder tackle.
All of the responsibility for the safety of the tackle was Kolisi’s so it should have been a red card.
At no stage were Kolisi’s shoulders below Savea’s armpits as he allowing for Vermeulen’s position.
It was a ‘high risk’ tackle!!
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November 7, 2023 8:56am
- Colville
  
  Yip. Kolosi saw a free hit on offer and took it!
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:21am
sirknz

Alright my fellow Aucklanders, what are you going to do with your share of the probably overstated ~$8 of annual savings from lower speed limits?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/133233411/10m-benefit-from-aucklands-reduced-speed-limit-safety-programme

I might put it on the mortgage and reduce that overall term by 4 hours over the remaining 20 years left on it…
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November 7, 2023 9:00am
- RoboRob
  
  I broke my ‘dont give Stuff clicks’ rule to see what these benefits could be.
  
  Never again. That article is a puff piece of lefty rubbish. ‘health benefits’ and ‘smoother journeys’ outwaying the costs of ‘increased fuel usage’ and ‘longer journey times’. Give me a break. What an absolute load of tosh.
  
  $8 billion of savings, my arse. Billions of cost in lost productivity and a small gain for the govt in ‘less road maintenance’ and ‘more fuel tax’.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘Health Benefits’ LOL. All that means is by going slower you don’t get the living shit shaken out of you by potholes!
    Todd Niall must be a right idiot.
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:20am
    - sirknz
      
      Todd Niall is an idiot.
      
      Had a couple of Twitter interactions with him over public transport usage. He works in the CBD so that means public transport works for him. I live near the CBD and work in one of the suburbs. Explaining why 4 buses and 2 hours each way vs 30-45 minutes each way in a car is better for me seems to be met with a slack jaw.
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Lefties can never work that out. People like you and me do not want to spend 4 hours a day travelling to do an 8 hour job.
        I am retired now so the lefties can shove it where the global warming sun don’t shine.
        
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        November 7, 2023 3:02pm
  - pdm
    
    Robo I told them it was bullshit and would more likely cost the country $10billion in lost productivity.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:15am
  - sirknz
    
    Next time I will put it on an archive page so that they get nothing.
    
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    November 7, 2023 1:37pm
- NothingLeft
  
  All of that and many multiples more will go on higher fuel consumption caused by more time spent in slowed and stopped traffic. Slower cars = more congestion and cars use more fuel at slower speeds.
  Also; how do they account for the cost of more hours wasted driving?
  
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  November 7, 2023 11:27am
  - Taieri
    
    Slower cars = more congestion and cars use more fuel at slower speeds
    ————-
    
    And more harmful emissions as combustion in the ICE is less than optimal at low loads.
    
    BTW: cars do not use more fuel at slower speeds. What increases is the specific fuel consumption as expressed in grams per kilowatt per hour.
    
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    November 7, 2023 12:36pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      cars do not use more fuel at slower speeds Yes they do. (I was a car engine development engineer). Cars use more fuel at lower speeds to traverse the same distance. Stop-start hybrids and diesels are a little better in this regard than petrol engines (thottling for low power is very inefficient). Eg:
      https://assets.whichcar.com.au/image/upload/s–y3DaG8SM–/c_fill,f_auto,q_auto:good/c_scale,w_1024/v1/archive/whichcar/2019/05/16/Misc/efficiency-bell-curve-(1).jpg
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:46pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        And that’s what I like about KB. There is some real expertise & experience among posters.
        
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        November 7, 2023 6:29pm
- kowtow
  
  It’s the war on cars which is a war on freedom.
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Vauban, Absurde, Gold Trip
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November 7, 2023 9:05am
- Zero Kindness
  
  Soulcombe, Right You Are, Gold Trip
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:14am
simpleton1

Steve Otto,
Was supposed to be posted in as a thread.
———–
Too True, Repeatedly.
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November 7, 2023 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not following you. Not understanding.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:47am
artemisia

A new report claiming saving for a house deposit is now impossible for median-income first-home buyers is painting a bleak picture for renters.

Then the report says it refers to buying an average-valued house. So, how about looking at other options, like homes under that average, saving a few years longer, increasing skills and income, seeing the advantage of being a DINKY household.
Or just give up and whine.

First home doesn’t have to be the forever home. Cut the coat according to the cloth – yeah that’s so so last century.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2023/11/cost-of-living-new-report-claims-it-s-now-impossible-for-median-income-first-home-buyers-to-save-deposit-without-help.html
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November 7, 2023 9:07am
- Ian Boag
  
  Their parents had it a lot easier. It was still hard when you needed a 30% deposit to buy a 3-year income home.
  
  Now you only need a 20% deposit to buy a house for 5-6 years income. What’s hard … ?
  
  Do we take it that you have never been the M&D bank for children who were clever enough to pick you as a parent …. ?
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:01am
  - artemisia
    
    How many years to save a deposit for a bottom quartile starter home – small, apartment, 1 beddie do up in the burbs. Build equity and trade up.
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:33am
    - septic skeptic
      
      The problem with that is the property “ladder” is dependent on house price inflation above CPI. That has worked for years but those days are pretty much over – because housing is unaffordable.
      
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      November 7, 2023 11:20am
- stiff cheese
  
  I’ll tell you what’s “so last century”: the average house price was 4 times ‘median household income’. Now it’s 9 or 10 times. We’re raising a generation of childless ‘cat feeders’ and ‘dog walkers’ because they can’t afford to think of raising kids.
  
  Here’s how we’re making it harder for the younger generation:
  
  • making them compete with record numbers of migrants for housing and jobs.
  • hitting them in the pocket with high inflation.
  • higher mortgage rates are scaring them off purchasing a home.
  
  If they do manage to get on the property ladder, it’s a hovel — er sorry, “a townhouse” — crammed into a space with 13 other households where 2 normal houses used to be. I think the young should be angry about this but they’ve been brainwashed into caring more about other issues like Net Zero carbon nonsense, and “Choose your own gender!”.
  
  P.S. I wonder if Luxon thinks 110,000 net migrants in 12 months is “too high”, or “just about right”. I won’t be surprised at all if he tries to top Labour’s ‘record setting’ level. . .
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:26am
  - Paulus
    
    Our first house in 1964, in London, was five times my income, and my wife’s employment was not taken into consideration.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:07am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Downvoters: let’s hear your rationale.
    
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    November 7, 2023 2:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nobody wants to work. I got my deposit be 3 jobs.
  Heavy Boat Haulage early mornings, 9 hours steel fabrication in the factory, then 3 hours 4 nights a week commercial cleaning.
  Had a flat, mattress on the floor, no TV, no fridge. It is not hard to manage on 6 hours sleep when you have a goal.
  The attitude today is new house, large mortgage, 63 inch TV with sound surround, double door fridge with icemaker, internet of course, fast car. Single income because of kids. If they can’t have that they start to whine.
  Get off your lazy arses and WORK!!
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Have to add.
    Back then some thought that they were paying enough Tax (and Union Fees!)
    So they thought the more money they earn, the more money the Govt gets. So they refused to work harder. Guess what? I have a Property (in Trust) I have two boats, two vehicles, a caravan, ani I owe NOTHING!!
    Sorry chaps, you should have worked.
    
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    November 7, 2023 4:55pm
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    My parents did extra work cleaning the company where my mother was office manager or financial controller or something – certainly a senior admin role – after hours to afford their first house. Suggest something like that now and the equivalent employee would file a bullying grievance that would make Siouxsie blush.
    
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    November 7, 2023 7:52pm
- Pavel
  
  How about buying a house in the provinces. In 2017 I had to buy a house on the west coast of the south island as prices up north were too high. It was cheap so I was able to renovate it and 2 years later sell it and buy a cheap house in the north island. I’ve now traded up to a coastal home in a good town and am happy with where I’m at.
  I have 2 friends who were saving for a house and had good deposits. I tried telling them to buy somewhere cheap and do what I was doing and with their deposits they would of had almost no mortgage. They could of bought houses in Taranaki or Northland or Manawatu or just about anywhere an hour out of a major town but had the excuses not to as they wanted to be where they wanted to be. Fast forward to today and they have given up on buying anything and still crowing on about how hard it is and how high rents are. Meanwhile I’m freehold and with what I’ve done in the last 6 years I can silence them within seconds should they ever moan about it to me. For a lot of people they are just stuck in a rut and don’t have the people around them to explain how it all works. If young people want to own a house they can, just buy in the provinces and work your way in. Plenty of houses around for under 300k. I started out with a lot less than my mates did and if I sold up today I’d have quadruple what they have saved in their entire lives.
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I built on the Shore because I like the Shore, and liked the job.
    Been here over 52 years. Spent 50 years at the same job at the same company.
    How many people have done that?
    Oh, my house was built in a Beazley subdivision. I did not like those houses so went with Dempsey Morton but still under the Fletchers umbrella.
    Here’s the thing – 1979 this house and section cost me $39,500.
    The land alone now is like $1500 per sq meter!
    
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    November 7, 2023 3:10pm
    - GJM
      
      Steve, thaqt $39500 is $280k in today sdollars with general CPI – or $1,166,069 based on the housing inflation option on the reserve bank calculator. It goes to show how out of whack house prices are over tiem with wages.
      
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      November 7, 2023 4:20pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yep, my Rates bill says the house is worth $50,000, but the land is $1,300,000.
        I would like to know where my $3300+ Rates are being spent.
        
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        November 7, 2023 4:58pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    just buy in the provinces and work your way in
    
    How well would that work if a few tens of thousands of Jafas decided this was the thing to do ….
    
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    November 7, 2023 9:17pm
ClanMcleod

Somebody forward this to David Seymour.

Median all-cause excess mortality in the 20 most vaccinated highly developed countries increased by +149% after vaccination rollout!

https://usmortality.substack.com/i/138628674/median-all-cause-excess-mortality-in-the-most-vaccinated-highly-developed-countries-increased-by-after-vaccination-rollout

In NZ, get your booster! (or we’ll have to dump hundreds of millions of dollars of useless and dangerous crap!)
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November 7, 2023 9:15am
- NothingLeft
  
  NZ Govt is still paying for advertising pushing covid boosters. That should have been stopped at least a year and a half ago after omicron had been through the country.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:34am
- Chuck Bird
  
  David Seymour does not take advice. I emailed him about what many were talked about yesterday.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/11/how_the_parties_did_compared_to_2020.html#comments
  
  Below is his reply.
  
  “We got a record result, you’re complaining that we didn’t get a bigger record result. Everything I’ve said about Peters is true, yet we’re commiting to work with him.”
  
  He seems to think if someone asks him in future if he stands by his previous statements about Peters and he says yes he is committed to a good working relationship. He is not as smart as he thinks he is.
  
  Seymour thinks he can ignore all those who voted for him. I hope others take the time to also email him. I will be a member of any political party in future. I will support Family First and the Maxim Institute where my help is appreciated.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:48am
  - Colville
    
    I cant fault Seymour for his reply.
    
    You think you are so special he should pander to your cry baby wishes?
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:24am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Yep, Seymour is 100% correct.
      18% for ACT would have been better, but that was before National released policy or looked like a real government in waiting.
      Seymour also bungled near the finish line on a few points.
      But it was a record result, and much of what he has said about Peters I agree with, and yet he is committed to working with NZF….so all true, and good on him.
      You don’t have to sing woo or compose sonnets for Winnie to make a deal!
      
      Hard to know how to please people, if you were Seymour, apart from perhaps kowtowing & banging his head on the floor, weeping: while shouting slogans which roll back his words about Winston, and apologising for the events around Covid.
      Seems kind of like trying to turn away the wrath of the Red Guard: time for self criticism ritual, comrade!
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:04pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        So you think it okay for Seymour to hold a grudge but not Peters. They may work together but Peters will hit back at a time of his choosing.
        
        So you think it would not be smart for Seymour to shake hands with Peters and call a truce?
        
        I guess under Seymour the Act Party no longer has a place for those who are socially conservative.
        
        His attack on Bob McCoskrie was not only nasty but also stupid. It definitely had votes go from Act to NZF. Whether it was enough to have pushed NZF over 5% we will never know.
        
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        November 7, 2023 3:02pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Chuck,
        No I don’t think it is OK to hold a grudge. Full stop.
        But that is not what Seymour told you.
        In fact, rather the opposite to what he told you personally and in public: he is reaching out and can work with him/each other.
        
        Why unless he denounces the past “mean things” he said about Winston (just as Winston insulted Seymour many times) does this affect anything?
        To what effect does Seymour alone need to kiss and make up?
        I think it is your social conservatism, which you alude to, which is affecting your judgement of everything Seymour does – and so I would not agree in saying there is ‘no longer a place’, but instead, perhaps look to the new Conservatives if Conservatism is the # 1 issue for you.
        None of the major or minor parties (including NZF) would be a home for you, if you seek perfection and complete matches to your values.
        Politics is about compromise and ‘least worst’ more often than not.
        
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        November 7, 2023 3:41pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        No, he doesn’t need to apologise for the events around covid.
        
        What he DOES need to do is to stop deliberately twisting data to imply that NZ currently has negative excess mortality. It isn’t a ‘mistake’ by Seymour, it’s deliberate discombobulation.
        
        The fact that he doesn’t speak out (and Luxon) makes me suspicious that he has some guilt and possibly culpability for the draconian, non libertarian measures inflicted on the people of NZ.
        
        We’ll never know unless he speaks up.
        
        He’s been informed many times why his use of statistics which include a period in which NZ was closed to the whole world is nonsensical.
        He’s been shown, with evidence, that the relevant period to look at is from the beginning of the jab programme to the present. Then compare this with the 5 year period from 2015 – 2019.
        
        This shows that there has been a double digit increase in excess all cause mortality. I’m not claiming this is all due to the jabs, no doubt some will be due to lockdown, mental health and substance abuse reasons. But there is more than enough correlation to ensure that the jabbing programme is instantly stopped while a thorough and proper investigation takes place.
        
        Also all ‘sudden deaths’ should be checked for any jab involvement, if nothing else then to assure the public that the jab is safe, which of course it isn’t.
        
        No, Seymour isn’t being blamed for covid policies or asked to apologise. Simply, as government in waiting, acknowledge there is a problem, promise to look into it, stop denying there is an issue.
        
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        November 8, 2023 7:25am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Seymour is an arrogant, narcissistic twat. End of story.
      He’s also a bigger liar than Peters. His deliberate misuse of statistics to try and pretend there is negative excess mortality in NZ either shows he’s a complete moron or he’s a bigger con artist than Ardern, and those are big shoes to fill.
      
      Any of you ACT supporters here trying to defend this muppet, get him to explain his position on excess all cause mortality and his dumb claims that the ‘vaccines’ are ‘safe and effective’.
      Yes, he’s still pushing that nonsense.
      
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      November 7, 2023 5:38pm
- oldpark
  
  Gal Gadot Plans Screening of IDF Footage Showing Hamas Atrocities. Wonder what Zoe whats her name from Terrorists supporters NZs Hamas Greens and her ilk will say about these confirmed facts .
  
  “Wonder Woman” star Gal Gadot plans to screen footage provided by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) showing the brutal acts of Hamas terrorists committed during the Oct. 7 invasion of Israel.
  
  Israel’s 124 news outlet announced a Hollywood screening of the 47-minute footage for a select audience of celebrities and influential personalities.
  
  Oscar-winning director Guy Nattiv, who spearheaded the initiative, confirmed to 124 that Gadot and her husband, Yaron Varsano, “helped make this possible.”
  
  “As a filmmaker, I swore that these images of October 7 would not be forgotten, and the world would see them,” he added. “Because now the denial begins – it is a fake, it is not a fake (…) We cannot pass by in silence.”
  
  Nattiv highlighted the broad spectrum of viewers attending the screening.
  
  “People who have film experience, so we can show them this crazy document that is reminiscent of the films created about the Holocaust.”
  
  The initial plan is to host a single screening for 120 viewers, with potential additional screenings based on its reception.
  
  The video content is said to be deeply disturbing and has already been watched by numerous foreign journalists and Israeli Knesset members.
  
  The footage will be showcased under the title “Bearing Witness to the October 7th Massacre” in Los Angeles and New York this week, according to The Wrap, which noted that one of the screenings will take place by invite only Wednesday at the Museum of Tolerance.
  
  According to reports, the footage, which was mostly filmed by Hamas terrorists, includes murder, mass rapes and beheadings of Jewish people as well as the massacre at the Nova music festival. The American Jewish Committee and the Anti-Defamation League are helping to organize the screenings.
  
  Nattiv shared a redacted image of the invitation on social media Sunday, captioning the post “Because the world needs to know the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth of the Hamas Massacre on 07 10 2023 against innocent Israelis .
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:50am
  - Random T Person
    
    I applaud Israel for making the footage available, but I won’t view it myself. The day of the Christchurch massacre (ie long before it was rendered verboten by the Ardern jackboots) I viewed some of Tarrant’s footage. It wasn’t good and I wish I hadn’t. And I say that as someone who has seen some pretty gnarly shit over the years.
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:18am
  - kowtow
    
    Watch for “protests” at the screening locations .
    
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    November 7, 2023 1:20pm
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      Gal’s going to get cancelled as a warmonger
      
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      November 7, 2023 7:56pm
  - kiwi_chileno
    
    The Israeli Embassy in Chile had a screening today (the 6th).
    
    Chile’s leftist government has recalled Chile’s Ambassador to Israel. Bolivia and Colombia have done the same.
    
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    November 7, 2023 3:27pm
    - Jack5
      
      Chile has the biggest ethnic-Palestinian population outside the Arab world. Estimates vary from about 430,000 to 500,000 in Chile’s total population of about 18.5 million.
      
      Most Chilean Palestinians are Christian.
      
      They have been settling in the South American country for a century and a half.
      
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      November 7, 2023 6:49pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Why must we forward to only David Seymour? You seem to be fixated.
  
  That is we even assume that picking links from the Internet is the way convince people of anything.
  You do of course realise I hope that online algorithms keep pointing you only to websites that only reinforce you current preferences and beliefs; based on previous site visits and searches. This is a large part of why things are so polarised now, and people get down a rabbit hole that only reinforces their previous belief, Vaxx, Climate changes, etc. You choose your own hysteria.
  
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  November 7, 2023 12:51pm
  - Ghost
    
    Because Seymour claimed there were no excess deaths in the last 3 years.
    
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    November 7, 2023 12:54pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      And he was a fool to respond to people’s emails perhaps or engage on this. I am surprised that anyone is still surprised by someone having such an opinion.
      I dare say, email Luxon, Bishop, Reti, Hipkins, Marama, etc etc. and see if they even respond at all. or Bloomfield or Ardern for that matter.
      
      Excess deaths is something I am hearing, but there is too much emotion and smokescreen to know for sure. Maybe there is an evil conspiracy, maybe people are just collectively stupid animals.
      Maybe there are excess deaths, and what part Covid, the Vax, the lockdowns & impacts on health played on that remains to be seen.
      Southland (former) DHB has just had to issue ANOTHER mea-cupla; this time about urgent MRIs that blew out so many months beyong SLA that a cancer is now terminal.
      “Sorry” is what they effectively said.
      
      I know you scoffed at the idea that GPs avoiding face to face consultations (by way of national directive) was a real thing, or that it likely contributed to the death of my friend’s father.
      But if I asserted he died a result of the vaxx (it was cardiac) I suppose some people here would accept that, and offer condolences or nods of approval.
      This is why I think the dust hasn’t even settled, and we will know more in 10 or even 100 years from now when the politics is more distant.
      Beating each other with sticks over convictions at the moment is not far off the people gluing themselves to roads because the planet is dying: “the science being obvious”.
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:16pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        You’re wrong on all points.
        
        There is irrefutable proof of excess all cause mortality. It isn’t a case of “Maybe there are excess deaths” – there are. FACT.
        
        Your friends father may have died from an adverse reaction to the jab, they may not, but the issue is nobody is looking or investigating. Every single politician except for Peters is deliberately avoiding the subject, pretending none of this happened.
        
        Nobody is beating anyone and comparing those trying to get to the truth about what was done to this country over the last few years to the morons gluing themselves to the road because ‘climate’ is pathetic. It isn’t remotely the same thing.
        
        The planet has been battered by one of the biggest attacks on democracy on many decades. There need to be urgent and proper investigations. Trust me, if they were done, it wouldn’t take long to uncover the evidence of incompetence and/or malfeasance on a massive scale.
        There will be plenty who are nothing more than useful idiots, Chris Bishop comes immediately to mind, but there are also plenty who are fully aware and fully responsible for what happened. Ardern, Bloomfield and Baker are the first three I think of.
        
        There needs to be some accountability.
        
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        November 7, 2023 5:59pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Fuzzysnuggleduck – because David Seymour has repeatedly publicly stated that there is no excess all cause mortality in NZ when there provably is?
    
    Luxon has been smarter, he hasn’t said anything.
    
    Anyway, do me a favour, prove anything I’ve posted to be false. Take as long as you want to check out the links I’ve given. Get back to me with your results.
    
    I don’t do ‘rabbit holes’ and your comment is a pathetic attempt to defend Seymour, who has lied publicly and distorted the facts deliberately.
    
    As for things being polarised, get a grip of yourself and think before you post. I am not responsible for one iota of polarisation.
    The responsibility for that lies firmly with Ardern and her government, and all of those who either fully supported her atrocious and brutal actions against innocent NZers, or advocated to do the same evil only ‘more efficiently’. Plenty of Nats and Act people in that camp.
    
    With their abject failure to even admit there might have been a few problems and a complete refusal to discuss the issues, it’s looking increasingly like all MPs bear as much responsibility as Ardern for what was inflicted on this country.
    
    Your comments are nonsensical. Tell me which ‘rabbit hole’ I’ve gone down and explain why you think it is so.
    
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    November 7, 2023 5:52pm
graham

Headline on NZ Herald:

Watch: US talk show host John Oliver’s hilarious pūteketeke campaign

Uhh … what???

What on earth is a ‘pūteketeke‘?

I literally have no idea what this article is about, so the headline has failed in it’s primary objective – to indicate the content or nature of the article that follows.

There’s no way I’m going to waste time looking this up to try and discern what on earth this article might be about, so congratulations NZ Herald – you’ve just scored a big fat zero when marked on how well you do your job of clearly informing people and getting eyes on your site.
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November 7, 2023 9:18am
- sirknz
  
  ‘John Oliver’ and ‘hilarious’ are mutually exclusive.
  
  If the studio audience clapping along at disingenuous, cherry picked stats and the writer’s room inside jokes is your thing, then we can’t be friends.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:31am
  - graham
    
    sirknz, I genuinely have no idea who John Oliver is.
    
    Nor am I likely to find out if the Herald‘s headlines about him have to parsed through an online translation service just to understand them.
    
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    November 7, 2023 9:49am
    - Jack5
      
      Does Stuff explain it better, Graham (link below)?
      
      The bird apparently is found in South Island lake country and in Australia.
      
      Most southerners who know of it will call it the crested grebe.
      
      This is the definition of pūteketeke from an online Maori dictionary:
      
      “Australasian crested grebe, great crested grebe, Podiceps cristatus australis – an elegant bird with a dagger-like bill and a double crest and neck ruff. Found on a few South Island lakes.”
      
      It’s the old problem of mixing two languages, instead of using English in the English language and Maori in the Maori language.
      
      Stuff link:
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/301003604/john-oliver-launches-alarmingly-aggressive-global-campaign-for-pteketeke-for-bird-of-the-century
      
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      November 7, 2023 10:08am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        I didn’t click the link for the same reason when I visited The Herald. It is not a common-use word in Maori or English and meant nothing.
        
        So this bird is native but not endemic to NZ. So why use the Maori name?
        Because – communication is not the aim anymore. It is the silly attempt to supposedly re-invigorate Te Reo. Like passports and road signs, Maori comes first and English second (if at all). All pretty silly, when language is something that is kept alive in households and conversation.
        And putting in the word ‘mahi’ or ‘korero’ here and there is not doing that. Virtue signaling games.
        
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        November 7, 2023 1:23pm
- RoboRob
  
  This!
  
  Language is about communication. The desire to shotgun Maori words in as a way of virtue signalling totally undermines the primary purpose of the writing itself.
  
  They should be asking themselves, what is the purpose of this headline. Is it
  
  a) To inform the reader of the main ‘gist’ of the story and encourage them to read deaper
  b) To show that we care about the Maori language.
  
  I fee stupider for even having to write the above.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:45am
  - JohnRidd
    
    Hi RoboRob.
    
    I don’t think it is either.
    
    The real reason is to signal to the other members of the woke tribe that you are a member.
    
    It also helps the woke to identify those like myself who are not in the tribe.
    
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    November 7, 2023 4:38pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Look at it this way,Graham-
  The purpose of the headline is to get you to continue on to reading the story.
  That way, you get to see the advertising and bolster readership data.
  Many headlines these days bear little resemblance to what the report is actually about.
  You read the headline, then you read the story.
  That is the desired result for the media. It doesn’t matter to them if you understood it or not.
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:16am
- Miritu
  
  I do wonder how you can waste precious time consuming NZ Herald content. Will you be better informed as a result? Time you could have spent consuming other content 100x more informative.
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nuclear threat looms. What are they planning?
Who is behind it? Joe would have no idea.

https://therecorddaily.com/us-navys-largest-submarine-arrives-in-middle-east-heightening-tensions/?
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November 7, 2023 9:21am
- rangitoto
  
  Nothing to do with nukes. The nuke armed ones are all in deep ocean. This will be armed with conventional tomahawk cruise missiles.
  
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  November 7, 2023 11:25am
- mawm
  
  There was this warning to the bad actors behind Hamas. If it is true they know that Israel can defend itself and they probably can’t.
  
  https://themessenger.com/news/israel-shot-down-a-ballistic-missile-outside-earths-atmosphere-in-first-ever-instance-of-space-combat-report
  
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  November 7, 2023 11:37am
cas

I was just thinking of how Jacinda’s latest job, on an international conservation group rallying for better climate action suits is like all her other jobs since leaving Parliament.

They all absolutely suit her talents because they all seem to be about talking and not delivering anything. She has been very clever in the way she is hovering up positions with non deliverable outcomes.
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November 7, 2023 9:22am
- RoboRob
  
  These organisations make money for themselves by collecting government funding and donations for do gooders. They oganisations survive by never acheiving their goals but talking a good talk.
  
  I would argue they are finding Jacinda rather than the other way around.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:53am
krazykiwi

Here you go, chaps: Demand for ‘Unvaxxed’ Sperm Spikes as Birth Rates Continue To Decline. Targeted business opportunity. Suits self-starters. Low initial capital. You’re welcome.
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November 7, 2023 9:23am
Maggie Pie

Even Chloe isn’t sure what she is 😛

https://twitter.com/EerjkMcRae/status/1721393402884108500

To think people like this want to have a say how the country should be run.
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November 7, 2023 9:30am
- Jethrod
  
  Well at least she is not the Screaming foul mouth skull of yesterday’s report. Needs to be on report the first day back in Parliament!
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:45am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Amazing the number of comments saying she looks like she needs a good wash. Although that’s quite normal for greenies of course 🙁
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:00am
    - Piniwi
      
      Also Maggie the suit she had on when she was on the AM Show looked it came out is the op shop making her looked like playing at dressing up in dad’s old cast offs. Also seems to have developed her own version meaningless word soup as she attempts to “look” clever.
      
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      November 7, 2023 6:53pm
  - Paulus
    
    Look it is accepted that Swarbrick she is on something continually – ritalin, hash or similar.
    It is not what she said but the Hitler like screaming and physicality of how she said it.
    Silly little girl but Aucklanders voted for her.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:14am
    - NothingLeft
      
      To paraphrase Jack Nicolson: When I imagine a Green MP I think of a normal educated person and then take away the reason and accountability (and basic understanding of science, psychology, mathematics, history, economics, common sense and self awareness).
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:52pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She should be stood down from work like the British Labour Mp, this is a disgrace, and they wonder why people call them natzis
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:45am
  - rouppe
    
    Pretty much the whole Green Party leadership was there wearing their keffiyeh’s.
    
    No chance of her being stood down
    
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    November 7, 2023 10:43am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      It was her and Gloris that shouted from the river to the sea, it’s utterly disgusting
      
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      November 7, 2023 12:12pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Who would stand her down? Her leader? The one who was deported by the Israelis for joining a Hamas incursion?
    
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    November 7, 2023 4:36pm
- RoboRob
  
  Very confusing. She says she is ‘Bi…… I guess im one of the queers’. Well which is it because even before the alphabet soup, bi and queer are quite different things. Surely she knows if she sleeps with men or not?
  
  On second thought perhaps he issue is that the woman she is with might sometimes identify as men. Ok, now I see the difficulty!
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:12am
- Gravelroad
  
  Isn’t it wonderful how far a goofy, if calculated, smile can get you in today’s world.
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:20am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Well I know what she is, she’s a moron, plain and simple.
  
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  November 7, 2023 6:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nashville Transgender Mass School Shooter’s Horrific Manifesto Pages Leaked.
America does not have a gun problem. It has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem.
340M people and 434M guns. If guns were a problem you would know about it.

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/11/nashville-transgender-mass-school-shooters-horrific-manifesto-pages-leaked-videos/?
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November 7, 2023 9:31am
- NothingLeft
  
  Interesting thing about it is the clear unbalanced partisanship being demonstrated by DOJ/FBI. The perpetrator’s motive awkward for left wing narratives, so all hushed up.
  
  And the published manifesto is being actively censored by the guardians of Good Think™ in Google and Facebook. Compare and contrast to the mosque shooter.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:39am
- krazykiwi
  
  Mental health… or how people are medicated? To wit: The Decades of Evidence That SSRI Antidepressants Cause Mass Shootings
  
  Since SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) first entered the market, many have noticed the unusual correlation between their consumption and completely out of character violently psychotic behavior, such as extremely disturbing homicides or suicides being committed by the individual. As the years have gone by, more and more evidence has accumulated (e.g., through lawsuits against the drug companies) that SSRIs cause psychotic violence, and in parallel, as the usage of these drugs has spiked, more and more grisly killings have occurred.
  
  Note: a minority of people who take SSRIs greatly benefit from them (particularly those who have deficient methylation), while others (particularly those who have excessive methylation or deficient liver metabolism of SSRIs) tend to have the worst reactions (e.g., violent psychosis). While this is relatively easy to screen for, because there is a general unwillingness to acknowledge that SSRIs could be dangerous, almost no one in the medical field assess for this prior to starting the drugs or changing their dosages
  
  I recommend this read to anyone taking, or who know someone who is taking SSRIs. The author (“Midwestern Doctor”) has proven himself to be thorough and evidence-based.
  
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  November 7, 2023 11:18am
  - Don Beckett
    
    What are the common drug names for SSRI’s ?
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:48am
    - Matt Long
      
      Prozac is the famous one.
      
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      November 7, 2023 12:00pm
      - KH
        
        Ah Prozac. In the early days became known for crazy suicides. eg: Run amok briefly then jump off a building.
        
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        November 7, 2023 1:22pm
      - KH
        
        The other thing with Prozac was that the marketing was a misnomer “anti – depressant”. It did not work as such. ie. Cheer you up.
        Several people told me. a. Experience unreasonable distress. b. Given Prozac c. Don’t cheer up but become a blob. Don’t care about anything. d. Many experienced that as worse.
        Don’t trust drug marketing headlines.
        
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        November 7, 2023 1:30pm
  - mawm
    
    Paroxetine is particularly bad and widely prescribed. Getting off it is a nightmare for many and often not achievable.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:49am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Try this list.
    
    9 0
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    November 7, 2023 1:02pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Thanks.
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:32pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    BTW, if you’re on anti-depressants the most common advice I’ve read is DO NOT come off them quickly or without support from your doctor.
    
    If you’re looking for an alternative, it is now widely know and published that exercise therapy is as effective a treatment as depression medications .. but it has the added benefit for being physiologically good for the subject too – cardio, strength, flexibility, sleep etc.
    
    Refer to paper Exercise therapy improves both mental and physical health in patients with major depression, and loads more like it.
    
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    November 7, 2023 1:08pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      The contraceptive pills are likely causing a significant amount of mental health problems and warped behaviors in women too. A pity given their benefits.
      
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      November 7, 2023 1:56pm
    - mawm
      
      kk – so are mindfulness meditation, group therapy classes and yoga.
      
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      November 7, 2023 6:02pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Cold water swimming is also beneficial.
      
      3 0
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      November 7, 2023 6:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes KK. How they are medicated, and what with? Then they stop the medication (I don’t need this shit) and self medicate with all sorts of shit. Then the problems start.
    My son has a mental health problem. There is no backup from the mental health people, no checks, nothing. So my son does the same (I don’t need this shit) and self medicates with stuff I don’t even know about. He falls off the rails and back into the unit. Hence we don’t get along well. Been nearly 35 years since his shit started.
    Hard to process.
    
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    November 7, 2023 3:16pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      That sounds ghastly, Steve. My condolences. I would struggle having a son as troubled as you have described yours. I think our health system has been more of an industrial medication system, but I do see some hope. Mrs kk and I have had some long-time friends staying. Aussies. One is a GP, and the other a specialised psychiatrist. Conversations with them a decade ago were strongly biased towards medications, but this week there has been lots of conversation about non-pharmaceutical interventions, ‘exercise therapy’ being one.
      
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      November 7, 2023 3:37pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It is not that bad. We don’t get on but he respects and looks up to me. Never violent, never suicidal. Things like no meds, then alcohol, dope, meth and whatever other shit just send him off the rails. Talks rubbish riddles. The Mental Health System in NZ is total shit. They cannot/do not do their job. Another lot of useless pricks who are at work waiting for knockoff time.
        Oh, he knows how to play the game for sure. SNAFU.
        
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        November 7, 2023 3:47pm
Warren

Foreshore and seabed Judge says current test breaches Treaty of Waitangi and Government in waiting has been called on to amend the seashore and seabed law following a landmark decision in the court of appeal which is expected to lower the test for iwi to be awarded customary title in parts of coastal New Zealand.
Under current law the marine and costal area (Tukutai Moana) Act 2011(maca) an iwi or hupu applicant group has to meet the main Criteria before the customary
Title is recognized.
It has to hold the area in accordance with Tikanga ( Maori customs of practices) and it has to have exclusively used and occupied it from1840 to the present day without substantial interruption.
Former attorney Chris Finlayson who was responsible for the passage of the law said at the time he expected only about 10 % of coastalmarine areawould end up in Customary Marine Title(CMT).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/foreshore-and-seabed-judges-say-current-test-breaches-treaty-of-waitangi/U7WXHDGG2VE6FP2JDG6E3NPHY4/
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November 7, 2023 9:34am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Odd that this did not emerge in the last six years. Perhaps they did not want to embarrass Jaxxie.
  
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  November 7, 2023 6:46pm
CAKE FACE1

As an ACT voter, I think that ACT should probably sit on the cross benches.

NZ needs real change. It is time to draw the line in the sand.

If ACT joined a coalition, they would be bound to support another centre-left government, in a holding pattern, until extreme leftists take over again in 3 – 6 years.

The referendum on the Treaty should be a bottom line for ACT. No referendum, no deal.

Mr Seymour, hold firm.
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November 7, 2023 9:36am
- peterwn
  
  And if minor parties push their luck too hard it could trigger a fresh election and Labour etc could be back in.
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:46am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I believe another election would strengthen National’s position.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:19am
  - mawm
    
    Peter – this much repeated threat has become hollow.
    
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    November 7, 2023 11:52am
    - peterwn
      
      It is not a threat. It is a possible consequence. If ACT and/or do not wish to form a coalition but merely offer ‘supply and confidence’ it will hobble the Government in trying to get things done. A leader faced with this will bolster his own party’s position then when the timing is right will force a snap election. This could well wipe out Winston and reduce the number of votes ACT receives.
      See also Ratcake’s comment.
      
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      November 7, 2023 2:16pm
      - mawm
        
        Every single time someone suggests voting for or what one of the minor parties should do this old trope gets trundled out.
        
        Surely Seymour understands the need for a stable government but his reactions are ones of being totally sidelined by National. He has great support in his electorate which I believe just happens to be the richest electorate in NZ. That’s many people with connections to top businessmen, etc.
        
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        November 7, 2023 6:09pm
- Ratcake
  
  ACT sit on crossbench then second election and watch ACT get decimated for doing it… typical arrogance
  
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  November 7, 2023 9:51am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Exactly
    
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    November 7, 2023 12:13pm
    - leoj
      
      Meanwhile, Luxon the mouse is on the same side as Jackson and Packer and doesn’t want a referendum.
      
      Tried to tell you he was weak.
      
      Woke and weak. A poor combination.
      
      We need a strong leader who will call out the threats but Luxon isn’t it.
      
      9 4
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      November 7, 2023 2:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        While he has said is that a referendum would be divisive, and it would be. However as Seymour has pointed out Luxon hasn’t ruled it out.
        
        6 1
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        November 7, 2023 2:57pm
      - peterwn
        
        That sort of thing is called ‘choosing your battles carefully’. In the 1990’s at the behest of the Business Round Table, Jim Bolger’s government picked a fight with the firefighters (who have a strong union and are held in high regard by the public). Guess who got a bloody nose. That and other daft things (such as planning to privateise the road outside your house) helped allow Helen Clark to win the 1999 election.
        
        4 0
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        November 7, 2023 4:28pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Arguably all referenda are divisive.
        
        If that is a byproduct of voices being heard and counted, then that is a price worth paying for anyone who values civil democracy.
        
        9 1
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        November 7, 2023 4:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The referendum needs to be explained.
  Seymour speaks of a referendum on the ‘Principles’ of the Treaty (which there are 31 in total.
  What needs to change is disbanding of the Waitangi Tribunal. Then the rogue James Freeman Treaty version to which “forestries and fisheries” were added by Sir Hugh Kawharu. The original Treaty pre 1975 did not include these.
  Ripped off for 45 years because of this corruption. Stop the Gravy Train.
  
  23 4
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  November 7, 2023 9:59am
  - I remember when
    
    The “forestries and fisheries” were largely on what the Maori could fairly have considered to be their land at the time of the Treaty.
    This may have been the reason for them not being mentioned or their mention being considered necessary.
    
    2 7
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    November 7, 2023 3:35pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Wrong.
      The Treaty was re-written when the Waitangi Tribunal Act was passed.
      The original was not adhered to. Sir Hugh Kawharu did this. He was a CLAIMANT!!
      James Freeman did all this under David Lange’s watch.
      I will keep putting up this link until people understand why and how the post 1975 Waitangi Tribunal is corrupt.
      53 minutes – nobody cares. Go 6 minutes in if you wish.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgY03s6Tqc
      
      4 1
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      November 7, 2023 6:12pm
- cmm
  
  Cake, I think you are morally correct, but practically wrong.
  
  The majority of Act voters voted for Act working with National. If Act was to go it alone and, worse yet, force another election, then they would get slaughtered for it.
  
  They want Labour out and a competent government in.
  
  I would predict that a very large % of Act voters would hold their noses and go vote for National rather than risk another hung election.
  
  14 3
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  November 7, 2023 11:29am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They wouldn’t hold their nose and head to Nats, anyone staying with ACT would be holding their nose
    
    1 9
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    November 7, 2023 12:16pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Correct. Note that Act got only 8.6%. It was not the 15% we hoped for and even anticipated. We need to be careful to avoid overplaying our hand. Act MPs now need to seek out similarly minded National and NZF MPs and gradually get those parties onside. Quite possibly without Luxon or Willis.
    
    15 1
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    November 7, 2023 12:25pm
    - Colville
      
      Quite obvious that in the last month some soft Righties flopped back to National from ACT because Luxon had grown into the role and was looking like a PM in waiting, hence National doing 4% better than polling and ACT doing the opposite.
      
      5 1
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      November 7, 2023 1:43pm
      - peterwn
        
        Yes, Chris Luxon has a broader background than John Key had. Chris ran an international airline which required significant management, interpersonal and political skills. I am reasonably optimistic he can achieve things, but he is at some disadvantage – in particular not having an absolute majority and inheriting a heck of a shambles from Labour (in comparison economic things were fairly clean when John Key became PM).
        
        6 2
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        November 7, 2023 2:24pm
    - peterwn
      
      And you have who in mind?
      
      4 1
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      November 7, 2023 2:18pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Act could get all of NZF onside if it was not for Seymour. Their policies are very similar. Seymour needs to get rid of his nasty streak and not just about Peters.
      
      4 4
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      November 7, 2023 3:22pm
      - Ghost
        
        They are pretty close in some policies. I expect Seymour will get rolled
        
        5 2
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        November 7, 2023 3:25pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe this is where Seymour and Act want to be. Support National but no coalition deals. Each case one by one.
  I am sure Winston would think the same. It throws the ball in National’s court to come up with some negotiations.
  School is over kiddies, the adults are in charge (or are they?)
  
  8 1
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  November 7, 2023 3:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    Na, they’re close to making a deal.
    
    5 1
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    November 7, 2023 3:55pm
  - peterwn
    
    Peters/Seymour – ‘we will vote against you and force an election’.
    Luxon – ‘Go ahead! Make my day’.
    
    4 0
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    November 7, 2023 4:32pm
- BananaLlama
  
  I also voted ACT but let’s just wait and see what we are going to get before we start burning down the place. If ACT is able to extract considerable concessions from National and NZF then i might reconsider my position.
  
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  November 7, 2023 5:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden crime family.
Two dozen subpoenas imminent.
Hunter’s bank records captured.

https://www.rvmnews.com/2023/11/biden-accountability-coming-comer-says-two-dozen-subpoenas-imminent-videos/?
18 6
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November 7, 2023 9:36am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  How many times is this, that you’ve excitedly informed us that the Biden investigation is finally about to uncover something that will finally prove the President to be guilty of something?
  
  How do you live with the constant disappointment when it never actually does?
  
  8 10
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  November 7, 2023 10:21am
  - All_on_Red
    
    There are plenty of mainstream sources with evidence
    Try The Federalist or any of Miranda Divines columns
    
    13 2
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    November 7, 2023 11:08am
  - NothingLeft
    
    This is not a conventional criminal investigation – with a wide array of powerful Democrat aligned individuals and institutions trying to hush it up and slow it down.
    
    There’s recently clearly been a lot of progress towards establishing undeniable criminality of Bidens despite partisan media, FBI and DOJ and Democrat congressmen and Senators trying to run interference. It’s taken a long time to get access, but evidence is beginning to snowball as various Biden financial records and communications are coming to light through congressional subpoenas.
    
    Of course Democrat controlled Senate will prevent impeachment, but criminal cases can eventually be bought against all participating members of Bidens money-laundering schemes involved family members (likely with RICO), and the court of public opinion will be enormously damaging to Democrats – they’ll likely eventually cave and force Biden’s resignation.
    
    16 3
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    November 7, 2023 11:19am
    - MCōs
      
      Presidents are impeached by the House of Representatives and convicted by the Senate
      Three Presidents have been impeached and none convicted
      
      4 0
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      November 7, 2023 2:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am just the messenger relaying items from email.
    
    7 4
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    November 7, 2023 11:25am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Lying to federal agents typically gets you in major legal shit (up to 5 years jail):
    
    Subpoenaed bank records suggest the president’s younger brother James Biden made false statements to federal agents last year when he claimed he wasn’t “aware” of the Chinese shell company Hudson West III which made six (6) payments to his LLC account in 2018
    
    12 1
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    November 7, 2023 11:41am
    - Miritu
      
      “Lying to federal agents typically gets you in major legal shit (up to 5 years jail)”
      
      Not if you are part of the establishment or are a loyal Democrat
      
      11 1
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      November 7, 2023 1:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You know it will happen after 2024 when Trump wins.
    Poor Joe does not know what the fuck is going on and it is a shame that the nasty Democrats treat him this way. But there are about 12 in the crooked Biden family. Extortion is all they know. They are protected now, and the attention is on stopping Trump from running in 2024. Does not seem to be working.
    The Dudge Engoron is riding for a fall. So is Letitia James, Garland et all.
    So Trump is not after Joe personally, he is after the Biden swamp dwellers.
    BTW Dudley, you don’t have TDS do you??
    
    7 1
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    November 7, 2023 4:12pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      It’s highly unlikely Trump will be elected. The DNC/deep state will ensure he is convicted on at least one of the many Trumped up cases, and the few percent of support that a conviction erodes from Trump will be sufficient to ensure the Democrat candidate (Newsom, Michelle O or Clinton) wins. Way easier than stuffing ballot boxes.
      
      1 3
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      November 7, 2023 5:16pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Chocolate fish bet?
        
        4 0
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        November 7, 2023 6:35pm
  - gravedodger
    
    US watchers have observed six years of “This time we will get Trump”?
    What is so different, oh that’s right Biden is a Democrat?
    
    6 1
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    November 7, 2023 5:36pm
Maggie Pie

Had to larf. Lots of posts asking why the ‘Human-Rights-Commissioner hasn’t come down hard on the anti-semetic rant from members of the Green Party.

Looks to me like he’d be too scared….my partner reckons Chloe would chew him and spit him out. Personally, I think the grey cardy is a dead give away as well.

https://tikatangata.org.nz/about-us/paul-hunt
31 1
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November 7, 2023 9:45am
- Jethrod
  
  I sense a light breeze coming that will blow him away. Looks like, he has never in his whole life raised a sweat. And judging from his CV on the link, never has.
  
  23 0
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  November 7, 2023 9:53am
- RoboRob
  
  I see hes not even a New Zealander…
  
  ‘A national of Aotearoa and UK’.
  
  Im really glad my money is going to someone as usefull as him/her/them. /sarc
  
  24 1
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  November 7, 2023 10:15am
  - Taieri
    
    ‘A national of Aotearoa and UK’.
    ————-
    
    “Aotearoa”? There’s no such country, the official name of this country is still New Zealand.
    
    6 0
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    November 7, 2023 6:29pm
    - Ghost
      
      And yet Aotearoa is branded on the passports….
      
      2 3
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      November 7, 2023 6:48pm
- Philview
  
  Before he came to NZ he was closely associated with Jeremy Corbyn and advised him on this issue. Paul’s Wikipedia page has been cleansed of any association to Corbyn but does mention that he lived in Gaza for 2 years.
  
  14 0
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  November 7, 2023 1:22pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  He wears the odd keffiyeh himself I recall.
  
  Typical lefty, one of Corbyn’s mates.
  
  9 0
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  November 7, 2023 4:40pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Hunt is absolutely a complete waste of space. How he could have been considered the best candidate for the role beggars belief & should be the subject of an inquiry.
  
  6 0
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  November 7, 2023 6:53pm
Benedict Yu

Chris Finlayson has come out of the woodwork opposing the proposal by David Seymour on the Treaty principles. Like Mr Luxon he says it would be “divisive”.

He is also suggesting a review of the Waitangi Tribunal.

“The tribunal’s coming up to 50 years old- so what’s the role of the tribunal in the future once it’s dealt with historical grievances?””

How about when it is finished with historical grievances it is abolished?
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November 7, 2023 9:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The role of the Waitangi Tribunal is to rip off the Net Taxpayers for the Elite Maori. There has been a Coup in the making for 45 years.
  
  26 3
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  November 7, 2023 10:05am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Luxon should suspend all payments to all organisations on the treaty gravy train pending audit.
    
    Whoever complains are free to state their case in public for receiving public cash.
    
    The rest of them will disappear faster than the money, they aren’t exactly famed for their public service altruism, and will fear an audit.
    
    22 2
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    November 7, 2023 10:40am
    - Ghost
      
      No, Luxon needs to take Maori along on his plans, make them understand they are better off with their plans
      
      9 0
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      November 7, 2023 10:43am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The Waitangi Tribunal and the rogue Treaty need to go.
        
        13 3
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        November 7, 2023 11:23am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ghost,
        That is the ideal solution . Unfortunately I don’t think there is anyone on earth who could implement it.
        
        6 1
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        November 7, 2023 11:48am
- Inandout
  
  Chris Finlayson’s law firm did specialise in Treaty claims and probably still does. There is a mountain of money to be mined in matters Maori
  
  25 0
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  November 7, 2023 11:11am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Inand,
    
    Exactly , people like finlayson feed from the rot they promote.
    Note that the racism in this and other countries is acknowledged and highlighted by our so called representatives.
    Ordinary people of all races seem to get on quite well.
    We get on well because we like each other.
    The representatives like the fiction of racism because it pays well.
    
    15 1
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    November 7, 2023 11:54am
- rouppe
  
  How about when it is finished with historical grievances it is abolished?
  
  A grievance created yesterday is by definition “historical”
  
  There will never be an end to grievances.
  
  19 0
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  November 7, 2023 11:12am
- Paulus
  
  Historical grievances will never be finished so stop dreaming.
  
  18 0
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  November 7, 2023 11:17am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. The dual problems are greed, and inter-generational waste.
    
    17 0
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    November 7, 2023 11:21am
- imalwaysright
  
  B.Y
  
  ‘Chris Finlayson has come out of the woodwork opposing the proposal by David Seymour on the Treaty principles. Like Mr Luxon he says it would be “divisive”.’
  
  The inference from Finlayson and Luxon is that, sans a referendum, we are unified in our opinions of the treaty and asking for our opinion in a measured referendum would somehow cause some of us to change our opinion and then be bestowed with the awareness of the identities of those who didn’t !
  
  The extension to the inference of division is then that a majority vote indicating a distaste for the treaty will be treated as a whimsy of the unenlightened and be quickly ignored, rather than recognised as a legitimate democratic vote for the divestment of a country’s albatross around its neck.
  
  Finlayson is not very bright , Luxon thinks he is.
  
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  November 7, 2023 11:24am
  - KH
    
    Sorting the so called principles is not divisive. It’s unifying.
    
    5 1
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    November 7, 2023 1:35pm
  - Jack5
    
    National’s “old guard” seem to pull a lot of strings in the party.
    
    That’s a great shame. Former politicians don’t appear on our voting papers or figure in party policies put to voters.
    
    The oldsters aren’t an inspiring mob. Think of farmer Jim and Kiwibank; of the first female PM and Mainzeal; and of Finlayson and Ngai Tahu.
    
    7 0
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    November 7, 2023 4:53pm
- Philview
  
  Chris Trotter picked up on that and highlighted other key policies that could also be called divisive but will be implemented.
  
  9 0
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  November 7, 2023 1:14pm
- kowtow
  
  How come labour laws aren’t branded “divisive” by politicians when they want change.
  
  This is just Lux and Co refusing to do the right thing.
  
  8 0
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  November 7, 2023 1:29pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Too many former MP’s dipping their oars in when they can’t even get re-elected. It should cost them every time they open their mouths.
  
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  November 7, 2023 6:03pm
Jack5

Perhaps some mild relief for NZ exporters exists in an over-capacity in world shipping.

Maersk, after a fall in its financial third-quarter profit, says it will axe at least 10,000 jobs. The Danish shipping company’s container line is second in size only to the Swiss-based MSC.

In 2022, Maersk had about 100,000 employees, and about 110,000 at the start of its current financial year.

The Wall Street Journal says of the financial impact of the shipping glut:

“Maersk expects full-year underlying earnings before interest and tax of $(US)3.5 billion to $(US)5 billion, with the company guiding toward the lower end of the range.”
16 1
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November 7, 2023 9:56am
- Colville
  
  Well their share price did treble in 1 year over Covid IIRC… so they had a ways to fall….
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:50pm
info@cruzpro.com

Kiwiblog and General Debate are now both loading much faster for me. Just as fast as other websites. I hope the problem has been solved and that this continues.
21 1
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November 7, 2023 10:32am
Master Mariner

Follow the money,

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/africa-climate-summit-opens-with-focus-financing-continental-unity-2023-09-04/

“In one of the most anticipated deals, investors from the United Arab Emirates (UAE) committed to buying $450 million of carbon credits from the Africa Carbon Markets Initiative (ACMI), which was launched at Egypt’s COP27 summit last year.”

Well who is the President of COP28?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/12/uae-names-oil-company-chief-to-lead-uns-cop-28-climate-talks

Meanwhile climate change activists are mere “Useful Idiots” under the Guise of “Climate Change”.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-28/uae-plans-global-energy-push-with-adnoc-s-150-billion-spending#xj4y7vzkg

About time people called out this for what it is ?
16 1
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November 7, 2023 10:43am
Master Mariner

Here is a bit of food for thought that needs to see the light of day.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/10/new-zealand-security-services-launch-initiative-to-help-public-identify-warning-signs-of-violent-extremism.html

“spy chief warns that people who disagree with human rights abuses (as “interpreted” and ruled by the High Court) are therefore fuelled by ‘conspiracy theory’. Dob them in!”.
And ,
“So it could be the COVID measures that the Government took, or it could be other policies that are interpreted as infringing on rights and it’s a kind of what I describe as a hot mess of ideologies and beliefs fuelled by conspiracy theories,” Kitteridge said.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has weighed in on this.”.

Mis / Mal /Dis -information. Yip Yip, Thats what it is.

This confirms in my mind where the co-ordinated responses to Covid messaging comes from., “Safe and effective”, “follow the Science” etc etc.
17 2
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November 7, 2023 11:00am
- mawm
  
  The CIA via 5eyes. Jacinda’s too stupid to have orchestrated it on her own and Ketteridge has to obey her masters.
  
  16 1
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  November 7, 2023 12:07pm
- Jack5
  
  Yes, we have to be on our guard for would-be terrorists within our society.
  
  We also need high performance on part of those paid to keep us secure.
  
  Have there been answers on how a “tailed” ISIS-supporting terrorist was able to go into a supermarket and knife and slash customers while two State security men stood outside?
  
  And who guards us from the guardians?
  
  I’m thinking specifically of the Christchurch incident soon after, or even immediately after, the mosque massacres. In this, an extreme firearms enthusiast or nutter (take your pick), committed suicide in his car, surrounded by police.
  
  Had he done anything illegal? Were the police culpable in this death? It would be good to get an informed, fair, and independent opinion on this.
  
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  November 7, 2023 12:08pm
- krazykiwi
  
  We should remember that “violent extremism” has been instrumental in the overthrow of corrupt, dangerous governments, of which we saw plenty as communism was largely destroyed in the late 1980s and early 1990s. So it has valid uses.
  
  6 1
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  November 7, 2023 12:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

The BFD, post by Cam Slater.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/stop-the-referendum-maori-activists-colluding-lets-all-threaten-violence-to-put-the-willies-up-politicians/?
10 2
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November 7, 2023 11:10am
Tauhei Notts

It may have become a cliche but the expression;
“Go Woke. Go broke”
is best illustrated by the pending bankruptcy of WeWork Inc in the U.S.A.
It was worth USD47b a year ago.
10 0
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November 7, 2023 11:37am
NZer In Exile

Lots of issues logging in again just now. Incredibly slow or “unable to access database” error. Woke fascists attacking because of hurty feelings over their cult narratives being smashed????
10 3
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November 7, 2023 11:42am
NothingLeft

Interesting poll result in USA; 6% of voters say they would switch from Trump to Biden if Trump is convicted.

This is exactly why he will be convicted regardless of right or wrong. Democrats need it to ensure election win.

It’s also why Trump should not be on the Republican ticket.
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November 7, 2023 12:03pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I wonder how many Dem voters said they would switch from Trump to Biden if Trump is convicted? Every poll needs a helping hand when the objective is to drive behaviour rather than to measure it.
  
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  November 7, 2023 1:13pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Reporter asks Trump if he’ll “take a plea deal” — His response brings house down.
Wise guy! he says.

https://rumble.com/v3tftoa-reporter-asks-trump-if-hell-take-a-plea-deal-his-response-brings-house-down.html?
6 2
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November 7, 2023 12:10pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uhidHKAX4M
31 Year Old Man Faces 115 Years in Jail (SBF)
Sam Bankman-Fried and his company FTX were once the stars of the crypto space but all was not as it seemed. After his fraud was uncovered, he was held up as everything wrong with the financial world. In this episode we cover the court case of SBF, where the money went and how his ex-girlfriend Caroline Ellison told all.
12 0
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November 7, 2023 12:15pm
- NothingLeft
  
  I’m kinda amazed he didn’t run and hide when the shit hit the fan – go somewhere non-extraditable, get a new identity or just hide in the hills. Surely he knew he was going to spend the rest of his life in jail?
  
  10 0
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  November 7, 2023 1:33pm
  - Miritu
    
    Yes, but he was a big Democrat donor, does that not buy you enough protection?
    
    10 1
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    November 7, 2023 2:48pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      If he has enough billions squirrelled away maybe he can buy a pardon from Biden Corp – it’ll be going out of business soon anyway.
      
      10 1
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      November 7, 2023 3:08pm
  - sungsamning
    
    As he was a major Dem donor; I don’t think he’ll spend decades in prison. Not even one decade.
    
    6 1
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    November 7, 2023 5:31pm
  - mawm
    
    Nothing – he’s a Democrat with connections. He’ll get his pardon from Biden.
    
    4 0
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    November 7, 2023 8:00pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycCQDF99bKc
BLM Founder Has Mental BREAKDOWN, Paints Herself As Naked ‘Golden Calf’ | Did We Break BLM!?
After being exposed as a FRAUD, This is what the BLM founder is doing. NO ONE wants to see this. [15:24]
5 1
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November 7, 2023 12:15pm
Ghost

Laughing, I love this iserali skit

“…everyone is welcome, lgbqth.” “H?” “Hamas”.
“Jews make the world dirty, and no I’m not antisemitic, I’m racism fluid”

YouTube
13 0
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November 7, 2023 12:16pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  I’m not even sure if that’s really satire as it’s simply too close to reality.
  
  14 0
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  November 7, 2023 12:50pm
Maggie Pie

A twitterer asks…

What exactly did that ranting antisemite Swarbrick mean when when she said…. “she was putting her electorate on the line for a free Palestine?”

What does this mean for the Jewish people living in Auckland Central 🙁

It’s interesting that the Green Party has come out and refused to back the nasty b*tch over her inflammatory speech….

https://twitter.com/NewstalkZB/status/1721667779110260893
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November 7, 2023 1:28pm
- Keith White
  
  She shouldn’a gotten high on her own supply.
  
  15 0
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  November 7, 2023 1:41pm
  - kevn
    
    Keith… She did look a bit high in that sing-a-long.
    
    10 0
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    November 7, 2023 2:40pm
    - Keith White
      
      Did you watch her? Thank you for taking one for the team kevn. I could not have stomached that.
      
      11 0
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      November 7, 2023 3:45pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  “Some of my best friends are Jews”
  
  – Chloe.
  
  15 1
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  November 7, 2023 2:16pm
  - Keith White
    
    None of my best friends are anything like Chloes.
    
    11 0
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    November 7, 2023 3:46pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Chloe is a leftie.
    Lefties tell lies – I wish more people knew that.
    
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    November 7, 2023 4:25pm
- kowtow
  
  Half their MPs were on the podium with her.
  
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  November 7, 2023 6:49pm
Jack5

Chris Trotter talks of Luxon’s ACT problem, and the possibility of ACT choosing to go on the cross-benches.

https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2023/11/taking-charge-luxon-must-demonstrate.html
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November 7, 2023 3:07pm
Jethrod

The Chippie has said in his announcement that he kept his job so far. He also said that Labour would have a “refreshed policy platform ” for the 2026 election. I think that would be surprising considering the amount of policy developed in the …….nine…………long ………years prior to 2017.
So much so everything since 2017 gave the impression of back of an envelope thinking, brought down by the 1000’s of contractors.
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November 7, 2023 3:14pm
mogg

Interesting survey from Talbot- Mills on woke agenda pushed by Labour over past 6 years:

“Half of respondents opposed allowing transgender women (described as “biological males who identify as women” in the poll questions) to use women’s bathrooms, with 21 percent supporting the move. This was the only other policy opposed by a majority of respondents.

A larger number of those polled also opposed Māori wards (45 percent against, 19 percent for), co-governance (31 percent against, 26 percent for), making it easier for people to change their sex on their birth certificates (36 percent against, 30 percent for) and the Māori Health Authority (33 percent against, 32 percent for).

Even relatively minor changes to promote te reo, such as making road signs bilingual, just squeaked through, with 37 percent in favour and 35 percent opposed.”
Allowing Trans Men to compete in women’s sport,
60% against only 6% for it.
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November 7, 2023 3:18pm
Inandout

Apparently an Israeli leader has asked Jews worldwide to not display their beliefs openly for fear of repecussions. What the hell is the world coming to? As an aside my wife and I visited a David Jones store and we were attended by a flamboyant gay Arab, in fact the first openly gay person we have encountered.
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November 7, 2023 4:17pm
- gravedodger
  
  He is safe here, not so much where he came from, he would have been a part of the ongoing research into how blindfolded trussed men can or maybe cannot “fly”?
  
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  November 7, 2023 5:45pm
- David Garrett
  
  How did you know he was gay? He might have just been “very musical” (one of the several old time euphemisms for gays)
  
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  November 7, 2023 10:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is this yet another attack on National/Act/NZF by the Horrid?
Mare Haimona-Riki has never heard of ‘Chemist Warehouse’ I guess. Prescriptions are free. More childish scaremongering and gaslighting!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/a-huge-step-backwards-national-to-restore-5-prescription-fees/ar-AA1jtTAb?
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November 7, 2023 4:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So driving up the Wairau Rd hill to Glenfield Rd there is a parked trailer with a big sign saying “Put your food scraps bin out by 7am.
Council, again wasting our Rates. It is quite clear that the food scraps bin program is not working to the extent of Council having to beg us to help.
Most sensible people just use a waste master. That is what a waste master does – disposes of food scraps – even bones!
How about the Council look at upgrading sewerage disposal?
Nek Minut we will be shitting in a bucket, putting it out by 7am, for collection.
Fuck me!!
Rant over.
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November 7, 2023 5:05pm
- Ghost
  
  If done right it’s a good idea. Our green bins are turned into compost and sold on. But those little bins Auckland have are a joke
  
  6 5
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  November 7, 2023 5:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The bins attract rats, and down on the road attract roaming dogs. You know, the dogs that shit on other properties, not theirs.
    
    9 1
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    November 7, 2023 5:32pm
    - Keith White
      
      “dogs that shit on other properties, not theirs.”
      
      So MPs and bureaucrats then?
      
      8 0
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      November 7, 2023 6:13pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        In disguise
        
        5 1
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        November 7, 2023 6:44pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  A guy asked me a few weeks bak if we were using ours?
  I told the nosy old prick we had a ‘Worm Farm’.
  
  The whole thing was set up by Goff and his mates before he left.
  As far as everybody we know in the Avenue, they’re like us….the council can stik the filthy thimgs up their arse 😀
  
  7 1
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  November 7, 2023 7:22pm
Ghost

Uh oh

The Electoral Commission is undertaking “a full check” of the country’s voting results after a Herald investigation led to three booths being found to have wrongly assigned hundreds of votes to fringe parties, while the National Party received none.

The commission has admitted a data entry error led to hundreds of votes being assigned to the Leighton Baker Party and the New Conservatives.

Article
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November 7, 2023 7:11pm
- MCōs
  
  Interestingly this appears on the Electoral Commission Official Results page
  
  This is not the formal declaration of results.
  The Electoral Commission declares the results of the official count by publishing a notice in the NZ Gazette.
  
  Detailed information to be presented to the House of Representatives (E9), including allocation of list seats, voting place information and special vote statistics, is expected to be available by Monday 27 November.
  
  How convenient is that!
  
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  November 7, 2023 8:59pm
Maggie Pie

And remember how I posted earlier that I thort the Green MP’s all looked like they needed a bluddy good wash…..seems Im not the only one –

https://twitter.com/EvilArthurFleck/status/1721763515348955643
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November 7, 2023 7:51pm
- Ghost
  
  Don’t you have to pay for how much water you use in Auckland? On her wages she can only afford one wash a month
  
  5 0
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  November 7, 2023 8:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Average $120 per month for our water. Used to be part of the Council, like Auckland Transport. So they separate them to keep the rates lower.
    Just another ripoff.
    
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    November 8, 2023 7:56am

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