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December 17, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 December 2023

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mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers!
As a bonus, it’s Wright Brothers Day as well, marking 120 years since the first flight at Kitty Hawk.
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December 17, 2023 8:01am
- Cassandra
  
  And Pope Francis is 87 today and Tommy Steele 87 tomorrow.
  
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  December 17, 2023 8:27am
  - David Garrett
    
    Cass: Tommy Steele – aka “Mr Iron” – is still alive? Excellent.
    
    The last surviving Battle of Britain pilot, Group Captain John Hemingway, is 104…Lest we forget and all that.
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:31am
    - Paulus
      
      I remember the opening night in London of “Half a Sixpence” starring Tommy Steele.
      We enjoyed very much.
      From another octogenarian, Happy Birthday
      
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      December 17, 2023 11:27am
    - peterwn
      
      Another Peter Sellers/ Frank Muir / Dennis Norden fan (the latter two created the scripts).
      
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      December 17, 2023 11:48am
  - Cassandra
    
    Sir Thomas Hicks in reality.
    
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    December 17, 2023 8:22pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  And, it’s Julianne Genter’s birthday.
  
  Just a a coincidence, Mikey.
  
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  December 17, 2023 8:36am
  - Opie
    
    She would have to pay me
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:16am
- Damocles11
  
  Uncle Tom Cobbley is also having a birthday today.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:52am
  - Paulus
    
    And All !
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:27am
- lastmanstanding
  
  I see a house fire at Cooks Beach destroyed a 2 yr old house. And guess what was it the garage and is suspected of causing the fire. Thats right. A Lecky Vehicle. These bloody things are gonna push up the cost of insurance for those of us who drive ICE vehicles plus the damage they are going to the roads weighing 150% of a ICE vehicle. Not to say the potential danger to parking buildings built to take the weight of ICE not Leckies. Bloody things.
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:57pm
  - MCōs
    
    According to the fire service the hybrid vehicle wasn’t in the garage, wasn’t connected to the power supply and wasn’t the cause of the fire.
    So if it wasn’t the electric vehicle it must have been the vaccine
    
    ‘Lecky’
    There’s a word I haven’t heard since about the seventies
    
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    December 18, 2023 8:01pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      “lecky” is a good one. Have you seen this from “Harry and Paul”? The Leccy Spongers
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnA9nxSQlmA
      Even got a nice little jab about “Lecky Cars”
      
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      December 18, 2023 8:18pm
    - Mike
      
      Apparently there has been a surge in EV fires since the batteries were vaccinated.
      
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      December 18, 2023 8:28pm
kiwikidsnz

Damien Grant nails the dental profession closed shop:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301027907/damien-grant-kaikohe-tooth-fairys-talented-work-proves-that-dental-sector-is-an-overregulated-mess
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December 17, 2023 8:03am
- OlderChas
  
  Absolutely agree. I have a very good friend ex-Navy who is a licensed Dental Technician (The ones who make false teeth.) He did no degree at university, nor did any of the services dental techs.
  Had to go to a dentist a few days ago to fix a broken tooth. When I rang to make the appointment the receptionist (any dental training?) told me I would need a 52 minute appointment. Oh – and wait four days to get in.
  Turned up and the dentist (excellent dentist!) – after looking at the x-ray – told me that the tooth in question had had root canal work sometime in the past. I counted back – and it was 51 years since my one and only root canal job (whilst in the Navy).
  She filled it – very well- and I was walking out of the place in just under 22 minutes. So that dentist had nothing to do for the next 30 minutes until her next appointment. No wonder it takes so long to get in to see one!
  And boy – they sure know how to charge!
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:55am
  - mogg
    
    I had exactly the same problem a broken tooth needing a crown, first appointment was 48 mins.
    Two more appointments to come after the inflammation has faded. The quote is for $2,500 inc gst. I forgot to ask what their hourly charge rate is but it must be close to the $500 per hour mark.
    
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    December 17, 2023 12:29pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Book a flight to SE Asia.
      
      I had two crowns recently. One a broken tooth fron an accident. The other broken tooth due to excessive fillings in past decades.
      
      Great Service.
      First appointment the following day.
      3 visits for each tooth. First tooth preparation and taking mold. 2nd a week later to fit cap. The third 48 hours later to check all was well.
      
      An eye watering $120USD($200 NZD) for the first tooth-good quality material.
      The second $100USD($160 NZD) as I chose the standard material option.
      
      The service was excellent-all the surgery equipment was modern and in excellent condition. (If you looked in my mouth you would see decades of dentistry visits)
      
      The only downside. A male dental nurse. haha.
      
      So grab a cheap flight to Siem Reap from NZ( eg $1392 NZD) have a holiday for a few days and get your teeth fixed.
      skyscanner.co.nz/transport/flights/akl/repk/240121/240125/?adultsv2=1&cabinclass=economy&childrenv2=&inboundaltsenabled=false&outboundaltsenabled=false&preferdirects=false&rtn=1
      
      Oh they work 6.5 days a week.
      
      Good options also for any other major city in Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia.
      
      Medical tourism is a great alternative to NZs appalling health/Dental system
      
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      December 17, 2023 1:10pm
      - Sacha
        
        Sounds like a plan –
        
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        December 17, 2023 1:40pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Many of the dentists here have trained in USA, Australia or Europe. So no need to worry about dodgy self taught charlatans.
        
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        December 17, 2023 2:27pm
- rouppe
  
  Bit of a two edged sword.
  
  Yes, this woman has clearly done good work, and she has skills to do it properly by all accounts. Just that the skills were not obtained at dentist school.
  
  However if we just said “full ya boots” you might end up with this sort of situation Because of cowboys.
  
  But then again, it already happens here, and a “censure” seems a bit like a wet bus ticket.
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/125433260/man-in-dental-wasteland-after-spending-more-than-100000-dentist-censured
  
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  December 17, 2023 11:09am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Not exactly new. Something like 60 years ago, to get dentures you had to go to a dentist – who generally employed technician(s) who did the actual job. At dentist rates of course. Not sure what their qualifications were.
    
    Later there seemed to be people calle “denturists” that I don’t know much about.
    
    Getting back to the point – my folks had both had their teeth pulled in their late 20’s and needed some new (replacement) dentures. They were in their 40’s at the time. There was a thriving black market in non-official dentures in Hastings – AFAIR the guy that M&D went to was a jeweller.
    
    Drastically lower price. No quality issues.
    
    Go figure.
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:31am
    - oldgolfer
      
      My dad told the story of a mill worker with bad teeth. The dentist said all teeth would have to come out, with inhaled painkiller an extra five pounds. He said he didn’t need that and sat, unflinching, as the dentist took out all. Tougher in the 40s.
      
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      December 17, 2023 2:47pm
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    My parents had a family friend in Christchurch in the 1950-60s who spent his life as a maker of dental repair/replacement. In those days many young people had false teeth (both my parents in their 20s) & women often had theirs out upon marriage to save their families money.
    
    Back in the day the dental profession also fought hard against setting up the school dental nurses.
    https://youtu.be/Iq2vV7l2owI?feature=shared
    
    All about protecting the income stream, dentists should be a big part of the public health system, bonded for a year as part of their mostly taxpayer funded education.
    
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    December 17, 2023 1:42pm
- Jack5
  
  Damien Grant would know a bit about professional regulation:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300307678/controversial-liquidator-damien-grant-wins-battle-for-career
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:21pm
Vinicius

My political awards for 2023. A bit tongue in cheek!

POLITICIAN OF THE YEAR: Chris Luxon. In a short time put National back in the game as a political force. Has been a quick learner in the transition from business to politics.

MINOR PARTY OF THE YEAR: ACT. Brought some energy to the policy debates.

MINOR PARTY LEADER OF THE YEAR: Winston Peters. Got his party back into Parliament and showed his debating skills in Parliament. Sometimes flaky but only a fool would underestimate him.

MOST CREATIVE POLITICIAN: David Seymour. Never afraid to bring new policy ideas into the public arena.

LEFT WING PARTY OF THE YEAR: Greens. Despite being full of wacky ideas managed to increase their party vote.

LEFT WING POLITICIAN OF THE YEAR: No award.

MOST PROMISING YOUNG POLITICIAN: James Meager. First term MP who could go far.

THE CRAZY AWARD: Te Pati Maori. Honourable mention to Chris Hipkins for his behaviour during the leader’s debates.
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December 17, 2023 8:04am
- pdm
  
  Vini – you missed hypocrite of the Year.
  
  While there were a large number of contenders on the left I give it to:
  
  James Shaw – user of air miles extrordinairre.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:37am
  - Vinicius
    
    True!
    I also forgot to award Robertson something like the “Hey big spender award”.
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:39am
  - Cassandra
    
    International Hypocrite of the Year: Al Gore, closely followed (I regret to say) by HM King Charles III who still has 8 houses, flies to COP etc. If Al moved to a normal house and the King sold Sandringham (and they both belted up about the world boiling) then we could focus on really making the world a better place – and killing the NZ economy won’t do it!
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:06am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hypocrite of the year, but do remember he did not award an Mp from the left award, I suggest that makes them all hypocrites.
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:24am
- MCōs
  
  Seymour became too cocky in the run up to the election and Act’s support sagged giving the cranky NZF an unwanted place in government yet again
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:25am
  - Simon
    
    How would you describe Labo? and the cattle that vote Labo?
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:31am
  - David Garrett
    
    MCos: much as I would like to disagree with you…
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:35am
    - lifesgood
      
      MCos…you are so right. I was dumbfounded by Seymour’s cocky attitude. It lost him heaps of votes and my respect.
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:54am
      - mogg
        
        Biggest disappointment of the year Seymour, he lost our votes with his stupidity.
        
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        December 17, 2023 12:36pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yes his mouth got him into trouble suggesting that there might not be any agreement with Nats and ACT, he tried to fix the mess but he is now seen as someone who can’t be trusted, what the hell would the point be sitting on the cross benches?
    
    It amazes me the rusted on ACT supporters with their down ticks, what you and what I have been saying for some time is fact, before Seymour opened his mouth, ACT polled 18%, they crashed from that day
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:27am
    - ISeeRed
      
      A diehard National defender says it’s ACT supporters who are “rusted on”? LMAO
      
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      December 17, 2023 2:53pm
  - Paul
    
    Like a Boxer at the weigh in, Seymour thought the microphone produced results. It never will, your statement is on the Nail!
    
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    December 17, 2023 8:21pm
slightlyrighty

A noteworthy step in the English Premier League with the first appointment of women referees.

However, players are now concerned that they will be books for fouls committed years ago that they had completely forgotten about.
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December 17, 2023 8:14am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Haha that’s gold!! I bet the blokes are looking forward to all the womensplaining! If one of those refs says ‘whatever’ it’s worse than a red card
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:36am
- imalwaysright
  
  Nice one!
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:41am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Talking Premier League, I see another player has collapsed on field with a heart attack.
  
  https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/tom-lockyer-collapse-head-injury-luton-bournemouth-postponed-b2465306.html
  
  I know, happens all the time, nothing to see here…..//
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The fact that cardiac arrest is a leading cause of death for young athletes has been known since the 1930s.
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:53am
    - Lee C
      
      The fact that smoking is a leading cause of death has been similarly well known since the thirties too.
      
      But the tobacco industry produced many studies that proclaimed smoking a ‘safe and effective’ product.
      
      Viral myarcarditis is a known condition for athletes, but it seems there has been a sudden inexplicable rise in incidences, but not only in athletes.
      
      I’m racking my brains to come up with how this has occurred.
      
      After all we’ve been assured that vaccines are ‘safe and effective’, haven’t we?
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:20am
    - Simon
      
      Jaxx injuries as well. It’s not just the kill rate
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:32am
      - JackRabbit
        
        All promoted by Jaxxinda Ardern.
        
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        December 17, 2023 1:14pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Indeed, but there has been a massive increase in the number of such events in the last 4 years.
      
      I know, nothing to do with the vaccines. Almost certainly it will be because of ‘climate change’ or something…..
      
      Climate change will increase heart deaths.
      
      https://www.bbc.com/news/health-10917611
      
      🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:49am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I looked at this issue (not exhaustively but I devoted a couple of hours to reading any credible sourced I could find.) I could find no authoritative sources that would support an increase in sudden cardiac deaths in athletes. Quite the opposite – numbers have been steady for decades.
        
        https://www.factcheck.org/2023/01/scicheck-no-surge-in-athlete-deaths-contrary-to-widespread-anti-vaccine-claims/
        
        This outfit is the leading centre globally – it is dedicated to investigating every sudden death in sports in the USA.
        
        https://nccsir.unc.edu/
        
        It reports no significant changes.
        
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        December 17, 2023 11:04am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – Google “increase in heart attacks in young adults”
        
        Every single result on the first page admits there has been an increase since the jab rollout. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And this is Google. Not known for being neutral when it comes to questions re covid related issues.
        
        Of course, every single response comes up with an excuse for why this is happening.
        
        I’m in a bit of disbelief that you went to a “Factcheck” website for information. They would have to be the most fact free site on the internet.
        
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        December 17, 2023 11:10am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        I tried Clan’s experiment and there are indeed a lot of articles about increasing levels of heart attacks in young people. Not athletes, though. On the contrary, they all attribute the trend to obesity-related conditions such as hypertension and diabetes. One or two also mention covid-19 as a factor.
        
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        December 17, 2023 11:59am
  - Ghost
    
    You’d be surprised just how many soccer players have died of a heart attack playing the game prior to the vaccine
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_who_died_during_their_careers
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:56am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Exercising very hard is one way for a young person to find out if they have a cardia problem!
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:10am
      - mawm
        
        That’s not true.
        
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        December 17, 2023 10:44am
      - Ghost
        
        In adolescents and young adults, competitive sport is associated with a significant increase of the risk of sudden death. Sports is not the ‘per se’ cause of the enhanced mortality in this age group; rather, it acts as a trigger of cardiac arrest in those athletes who are affected by silent cardiovascular conditions, mostly cardiomyopathy, premature coronary artery disease, and congenital coronary anomalies, which predispose to life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias during effort.
        
        Link
        
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        December 17, 2023 10:56am
      - Paul
        
        Nobody in the World fits your narrative. Nobody.
        Nobody is pushing their limits to experience breaking point.
        Getting up people’s noses is your way of testing tolerance on this forum. The Moderators tolerance.
        You live in a parallel universe where you willfully, and gleefully, undermine good people, because good people are tolerant. Only because other people are good can your toxic hate find a voice. Speaking to your own kind obviously gets no results. Because your own kind is hard to find, nobody of your character can produce any worthwhile observation, instead you hijack the forum like a worm in the gut. You are a loser.
        Is it time to ban this creep?
        
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        December 17, 2023 8:36pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      The confounder here is pro footballers in the top leagues like the EPL are extensively tested on a for fitness level including heart and respiratory issues in pre season and especially when transfers involved.
      
      These guys are major assets for clubs, even someone like Lockyer playing for a poor team, worth millions in potential transfer fees
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:30am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        They would be the most tested and examined people on the planet. They are checked for everything. This isn’t some fat kid with diabetes running a marathon for the first time.
        
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        December 17, 2023 11:13am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Ghost – no I wouldn’t, I’ve been a football fan for almost 60 years. But there has been a concerning increase in the number of deaths in young, fit people that seems to correlate with the jab rollouts.
      
      This isn’t denied, but the attempts to find other reasons for why it is happening are tragically funny. They come up with every reason except the jabs. That is never considered.
      
      The fact it isn’t even considered let alone investigated speaks volumes.
      
      Try it. Google – “increase in heart attacks in young adults”
      
      You’ll see every excuse under the sun. It’s pathetic.
      
      Simple fact is, there needs to be a full, transparent and clearly independent investigation. All of the data held by the MoH should be released for analysis.
      Doing that would settle this once and for all and we might be able to get on with our lives.
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:58am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        Have you googled “increase in heart attacks among athletes”? Because I have.
        
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        December 17, 2023 3:29pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Sorry, but I was a National champ in my chosen sport, I watch and listen very closely to all sporting happenings, we’ll before the pox jab athletes have had sudden heart problems, a guy playing rugby for Southland 10 years ago Hoani ….. (can’t remember his last name) had a full on heart attack on field, he survived possibly because he was so fit, when I was younger a mate in the surf life saving club was reffing a game of touch, a fit 25 yearold collapsed and died on field, it turned out he had a clot, of course well before COVID, one of Britains Olympic breaststroke champions collapsed and died in the changing room after training, these things do happen, and often there is an underlying issue that no body knew about.
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:35am
  - peterwn
    
    Possibly if they had echocardiograms, scans, blood tests etc it would give a good indication of whether their hearts were in tip top order or whether there was a potential issue. A useful research topic could be to see if there was a simple test that indicates there could be issues and if positive the young person could be referred to a heart specialist for an echocardiogram and further investigation.
    
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    December 17, 2023 6:13pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    I’m not saying anything in particular about any specific player but there is another factor to consider when an athlete dies of a heart attack in their 20s-30s. Illicit drug use.
    Stimulants are fun, and young men with a lot of money and connections can be expected to take more. Getting an edge over the competition with performance enhancing substances is always a temptation.
    Some sports codes will be worse than others of course. Cycling and swimming have had their scandals but professional wrestling and bodybuilding have been insane with the amount of deaths of young competitors.
    
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    December 17, 2023 7:19pm
- David Garrett
  
  Slightly: I know you are only following common practice, but using “woman” as an adjective is fingernails down a blackboard for me. Can you imagine saying “the first MAN referee is appointed to offciate in a womens’ hockey match?”
  
  Of course not; correct usage would be the first MALE referee…just as it should be “Margaret Thatcher was the first FEMALE Prime Minister of England: Not “the first woman PM”…
  
  I realise of course that I am fighting a losing battle…
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:40am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    True, but Neil Armstrong was the First Man on the Moon, and Hilary the First Man to climb Everest.
    
    Of course, the current zeitgeist has a very broad definition of woman (No Pun intended) but I will always equate Woman with Female
    
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    December 17, 2023 12:21pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Excuuuuuse me it’s “non-men” now.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCtIX8n_Fo
    
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    December 17, 2023 2:58pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Well said. What’s wrong with “female writer”, “female PM” etc?
    
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    December 17, 2023 6:19pm
Bridgenag

The COP28 Elite Dine and Dash

…..We’re talking trillions of tax payer’s hard-earned money hyper-inflated away into climate boondoggles meant only to enrich a tiny minority class of wealthy climate virtue signallers. And that’s only scratching the surface.
…..Now, they’re dead-set on entirely transforming our societies based on mandates concocted somewhere in Brussels or Geneva or Zurich, in small rooms by even smaller groups of people. And these transformations are invariably aimed at making life as inconvenient as humanly possible for the average, hardworking, blue-collar prole.

….These climate summits come down to a bunch of detached geriatric billionaires, swathed in exuberant hypocrisy, gaslighting and guilt-tripping the rest of the free world into sweepingly destructive changes, while making none of the same exemplars themselves.
All their actions resort to being sickeningly performative, like when King Charles arrived at Davos 2020 in an electric Jaguar after having taken an inefficiently pollutive private jet flight there, then proceeding to shamelessly deliver his now infamous “we cannot waste any more time in averting climate catastrophe” injunction.
This hypocrisy is doubly interesting given the infamous revelation by a VIP driver for the WEF where he admitted that despite Switzerland’s laws that all Uber drivers are required to drive electric vehicles, the WEF Davos summit prohibited their drivers from carting around VIP members in electrics, allegedly citing some vague ‘safety’ concerns.
What’s unsafe for them is apparently ‘good enough’ for the rest of us bug-fed untermenschen.

https://open.substack.com/pub/darkfutura/p/the-cop28-elite-dine-and-dash?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 17, 2023 8:23am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ6TmdkEvQ8
China Goes On the Offensive Against the Philippines.
China hasn’t been doing much by way of winning friends and influencing people lately. And certainly not in the Phillipines. [10:43]
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December 17, 2023 8:24am
- Simon
  
  GAE wrecked relationship with PH Trump turned it around. Obama very insulting of then PH leader.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:35am
  - sungsamning
    
    And the new president there isn’t a pushover like Duterte.
    
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    December 17, 2023 3:23pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIFK5sPwKBQ
Courts Hand Trump ‘Big Win’ and Another ‘Victory’.
Donald Trump has won a lawsuit in MI, and the DC case has been paused. [8:28]
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December 17, 2023 8:24am
- Its only I
  
  It was logical Trump would go to appeal just for the delay. Unfortunately for the deteriorating trumplethinskin the prosecution has has jumped ahead to both the supreme court and appeals.
  Trump should stop hiring his lawyers on looks alone..lip fillers were not an indication of Alina Habbas ability.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:28am
  - Lee C
    
    You are indeed the blind man from the village.
    
    Alina Habas would run rings around you.
    
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    December 17, 2023 12:27pm
    - Its only I
      
      I would rather have nothing to do with her ring…
      
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      December 17, 2023 12:41pm
BarryB

The recent offer by Sky for netball is an interesting bit of news. The general opinion is that there are growing alternates for viewers to watch women’s sport. Rugby union and rugby league have added womens competitions. Soccer has a new womens team, and so on.
Interestingly in the US and Canada the approach has been different. The money for womens sport has not been going into expanding existing codes by adding womens teams, but instead going into sports where the sport is more of a womens area of activity, eg rowing or volley ball. It is certainly opening many more doors.
The other elephant in the room is the subject of brain damage. Just as its becoming obvious that banging ones head isnt a good option for future health the sports where this is a big issue – and will probably see drastic reduction in the number of people in these sports – are expending the numbers of participants. Its obvious that there will be some big damages claims in the not too distant future.
Maybe the wokeness state that the world seems to be in, and especially in NZ, that this has caused blindness among outfits such as the rugby and league boards and soccer in that they cant see the potential problems that their codes are facing and will continue to face.
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December 17, 2023 8:31am
- Flossie
  
  And yet boxing is promoted and vast sums of money are involved. Seems ridiculous when the whole point of the sport is to beat your opponent to the point of unconsciousness.
  That’s how I see it anyway.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:35am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Have you not heard the female journalists wetting themselves over MMA?
    
    Even as cognitive dissonance goes, it’s simply staggering.
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:01pm
John Loveridge

You begin to understand the state of local government when it costs $700,000 to move a seat.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/waikato/301024814/bus-stop-outside-hamilton-sex-shop-set-to-move-100m-down-the-road-at-700000-cost
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December 17, 2023 8:38am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/301
  
  Buy some soap, save $699,000
  
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  December 17, 2023 7:08pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Wellington gets an unfair rap on this blog. Yes, it is infected with wokeness and weirdos of all descriptions. But, that’s because it pulls most of those people who are so out there that well paid, diversity box-ticking public service employment is their most attractive option. If you think your town doesn’t produce those people, think again. Who knows, you might see them home for Christmas.

Meanwhile, those regular born, bred & by choice Wellingtonians, outnumbered in their own city (see election results since the 1980s), have to live not just with the peculiar decisions these people make, but also the derision of the rest of the country. You should be thanking us for doing the heavy lifting so that you don’t have to.
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December 17, 2023 8:44am
- lifesgood
  
  Come on! Let’s be fair, all Wellington’s derision is well deserved. I’ll give you two words…Tory Whanau.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:57am
  - PhilBest
    
    I upticked both you and NeverMindTheBollocks. His point was that there are still some normals left in Wellington and it is a pretty tough existence. Like normals in California. Normals in Wellington have to exist knowing they are surrounded by Zombies who do things like vote for Tory Whanau. I have a theory that brain-dead drivers of cars (often hybrids) also abound in Wellington and they are the same sort of people.
    
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    December 17, 2023 1:22pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Illustrates my point
    
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    December 17, 2023 1:24pm
- mogg
  
  Since the new government, the mobile shipping hazards who would regularly chow down in Midland Park at lunchtimes, with their greenstone pendants and govt office lanyards seem to have already disappeared.
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:49pm
kiwikidsnz

The Aussies call a spade a bloody shovel again

Juicemedia Honest Govt Ad: Visit the UK
Caution: NSFW or young people

https://youtu.be/8sRoYvFTE3c?feature=shared
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December 17, 2023 8:49am
Vinicius

A Confederate Memorial at the Arlington National Cemetery in the USA is to be removed.

The BBC reports that “His statue features a stereotypical depiction of a black woman,”. Some find this objectionable.

The GOP oppose the removal of the memorial.
Is removing this memorial a good idea or just more woke nonsense? I think it is a bit too woke for my liking.

Any thoughts?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66004176
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December 17, 2023 8:53am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think it would be best dealt with by adding interpretative material, at the base of the statue or nearby. The loathsome cause of the confederacy needs to be remembered, with the necessary context to explain why a country’s national war cemetery honored those who fought to destroy the same nation.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:33am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Erasing history only makes it more likely to re-occur.
    Given the antisemitism in the world at the moment, imagine the holocaust denial if all the camps had been built over and museums not opened.
    Having been to the holocaust memorial in Berlin (two mins walk from where Hitler’s bunker was) it’s still difficult to comprehend the enormity of it.
    
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    December 17, 2023 6:28pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Perhaps those calling for the removal of this and similar historical monuments, should think through whether they really want to remove any trace of existing evidence that black people have ever been badly treated and despised because of their race.
  
  Because once these things are no longer apparent, and our television screens are instead full of positive depictions of black people successfully and unremarkably occupying positions of prestige and influence throughout history – it might get more difficult to argue that any negative statistics about crime, education levels, life expectancy etc are down to long standing race-based disadvantage.
  
  Do they want black children to grow up believing that with effort and application, anything’s within their grasp – or don’t they?
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “They” want black children to grow up welfare dependent.
    I refer to Candace Owens and Fatherless homes, and Blacks leaving the Plantation! They don’t want Fathers in the homes, therefore making the Mother dependent – and therefore a Democrat voter.
    Candace Owens’ book “Blackout” is a cracker.
    
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    December 17, 2023 3:38pm
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      In which case they should be in favour of retaining historic images depicting the abuse of black people. It’s a great way of impressing on black kids that there’s no point bothering because they’re just going to get oppressed anyway, and of reminding white people that it’s all their fault
      
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      December 17, 2023 5:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Have the Dems started burning books yet?
  
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  December 17, 2023 3:34pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The trouble with the Paris Accord is that parts of it are poorly suited to NZ.

One of the big problems is that our population has soared – up circa 2m or 66% since 2000. The larger part of the net increase is due to migration. No other OECD country had endured this. The Accord should allow for a carbon credit for these people, debiting their home countries.

Another is that so much of our greenery does not count for carbon credit purposes. This includes grass, of which we have quite a bit.

Thank you Benedict, for raising our upcoming liability. Personally, I think we should unilaterally withdraw from the Accord (NZ leading the world, again). You can be sure that all other countries with similar liabilities will be contemplating this. If the Orangeman wins in ‘24, watch for sparks to fly!
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December 17, 2023 9:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Why should NZ not bear the cost of deliberately increasing its population at such a high rate?
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:34am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Because we don’t want to.
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:47am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Possibly think through whether we really want liability to be calculated by reference to per-capita emissions, which is where the argument that our emissions are going up because our population has gone up leads to.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:52am
- ISeeRed
  
  It’s 1.3m, not 2m, which is 33%, not 66%. Easily verifiable in Google. Why overstate the case so much? A third in two decades is still bad.
  
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  December 17, 2023 3:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  When Orangeman wins he will also pull out of NATO unless the freeloading Countries start paying their share. Why should the US Taxpayer pay and supply weapons for mostly European Countries?
  NZ is also a partner, why?
  
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  December 17, 2023 3:44pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    It brings them into the same network, both for good and bad. If you have a fully independent defense force you are capable of taking independent action.
    
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    December 17, 2023 7:23pm
KiWombat

– – – and 120 years and 9 months since the first flight down in New Zealand near Temuka by Richard Pearse ! ! !
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December 17, 2023 9:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Myth. Pearse’s flight – more of a powered hop – did not precede the Wright Brothers’ feat.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:36am
  - Jethrod
    
    Pearse’s flight was every bit as successful as The Spruce Goose; first flight (and only) in 1947.
    
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    December 17, 2023 11:47am
    - sungsamning
      
      And Richard Pearse never claimed to have beaten the Wright brothers. As for the ‘journalists’ of the local papers; they can’t have been a very enterprising lot. Bloke builds airplane in barn, makes a short flight. Crickets.
      
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      December 17, 2023 3:28pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    If it’s higher than you can jump then its flight.
    
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    December 17, 2023 6:57pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  There is a pub in Timaru and I think the road is called Richard Pearce drive, ass opposed to milk maid, Pearce’s hoo is still a first flight
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:09pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    also:
    Richard Pearse Drive – in Mangere , alongside Auckland Airport parking area.
    
    Richard Pearse Airport, Timaru
    
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    December 17, 2023 12:48pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes, of course Timaru is not far from the Temuka area where the first flight happened, and the Rangitata electorate of a future Māori pm
      
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      December 17, 2023 1:32pm
- PhilBest
  
  Pearse wasn’t the first to “get airborne”. What the Wright Brothers were the first to do, is take off, complete a controlled return to the start point, and land their aircraft again. Inventors had been “getting airborne” for years and Pearse was just one of those. No-one ever witnessed him achieve a controlled flight ending in a landing back at the start point. Seeing an inventor airborne briefly, doesn’t qualify as witnessing the first powered flight under the criteria the Wright Brothers satisfied. If we want to work out who “got airborne” first, all sorts of questions come up; did they take off from a high point; were they “launched”; was the flight successfully controlled or merely influenced by controls as a launch ended in a crash?
  
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  December 17, 2023 1:16pm
  - Jack5
    
    Inventors in different countries often get close to breakthrough around the same time.
    
    For example, who was first to “invent” the jet engine: Frank Whittle in the UK, or Hans von Ohain in Germany?
    
    https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/ww2/projects/jet-airplanes/planes.html#:~:text=Hans%20von%20Ohain%20of%20Germany,a%20flight%20test%20until%201941.
    
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    December 17, 2023 2:32pm
david in Aus

For the sake of Palestinian civilians, I call on Hamas to surrender their leadership and release all hostages. The war started by Hamas necessitated a full-scale invasion.

I call on “supporters” of Palestinians to call out on the tactics of Hamas of putting their civilians in harm’s way as a PR measure to put pressure on Israel. It’s obvious to me that Hamas is using the Vietnam-era tactic of trying to win the living room of Western Democracies by using the bodies of their own children. Disgusting and cynical.
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December 17, 2023 9:05am
- kowtow
  
  I suspect the only interest Hamas ( and their ilk ) have in our living rooms , is taking them over , on behalf of their Islamic masters in Tehran , lock ,stock and smoking barrels.
  
  Inhabitants of said living rooms need to get woke to a colonial movement far older and much less benign than western colonialism.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:21am
- Che Guava
  
  A few points:
  
  “The war started by Hamas necessitated a full-scale invasion.”
  
  Are you really “defending” yourself when you invade another’s territory and look for all money to be intending to annex said territory? Defence would look more like sitting in your own territory and killing combatants as and when they attempt to enter your territory.
  
  “…the tactics of Hamas of putting their civilians in harm’s way as a PR measure to put pressure on Israel.”
  
  Are Hamas really “putting” civilians in harms way, or is it just that Israel is bombing civilian areas regardless of whether or not there is any Hamas personell in that territory. In other words, the civilians homes and businesses and facilities are being bombed by Israel, with the full knowledge of the latter. Thousands of dead women and children are dismissed and excused as being “human shields.”
  
  “…trying to win the living room of Western Democracies by using the bodies of their own children”
  
  The bodies of children killed by Israel’s military, you mean.
  
  Just say that you support Israel without qualification and no matter what the circumstances, rather than trying to advance such poor arguments and twisting reality in such an Orwellian manner to suit your favoured side in the conflict.
  
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  December 17, 2023 10:37am
  - rockape
    
    Just as well we didn’t apply those tactics in WW 2. Just imagine if the UK, the USA, NZ and Australia had all stayed within their borders rather than take the war to their enemies. You were obviously never military thank god.
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:55am
    - Che Guava
      
      What’s the claim? “Israel has a right to defend itself.” And so it does, but they aren’t defending themselves now, they are positively conducting a war of aggression and incursion to achieve long-held political objectives.
      
      And btw, I’ll have you know that I served with distinction, first as a lance corporal and later as a captain, in the Salvation Army throughout its protracted campaign in Māngere and surrounds back in the 1990s.
      
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      December 17, 2023 11:14am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Uptick for humour
        
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        December 17, 2023 9:06pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      But they aren’t ‘taking it to their enemies’, apparently they can’t find them which is why they’re carpet bombing the whole place and that’s how they justify so many civilian deaths.
      
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      December 17, 2023 11:27am
      - Lance
        
        More hyperbole than TPM.
        Well done
        Even the woke BBC is showing evidence of Hamas tunnels, full on house to house shoot outs and targeted building hits.
        But do carry on the lies, it’s kinda funny
        
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        December 17, 2023 12:09pm
  - mogg
    
    Every pile of dead bodies that Hamas can gather together and display to the Western media is a victory for them, it’s what they want.
    Now universities, media and institutions are full of Jew Hatred and that is what Hamas are exploiting.
    75% of people in Gaza support Hamas, that is 65% strong support 10% moderate supporters.
    I remind you that Hamas is extreme Islamic cult, despised by most Arab countries in the Middle East.
    The Egyptian border remains closed because they do not want the trouble that Palestinians will bring.
    You must be very proud to hold views which are so closely aligned with those of Jew hating TPM and NZ Green Party,
    
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    December 17, 2023 1:19pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Why is criticising the Israeli government automatically considered antisemitism ?
      Is criticising the US government antichristian ?
      
      I see a parallel between the covid narrative believers and the Israeli government supporters. Same rhetoric . Same people ?
      
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      December 17, 2023 7:12pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Give it a rest.
    
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    December 17, 2023 3:07pm
  - Paul
    
    “another’s territory”
    
    Why are Hamas special? Did their ancestors live there? Long before the Muslim religion began, Jews where living there and elsewhere.
    
    What were Palestinians before the beginning of the Muslim Religion, because they certainly were not Muslim. What were they?
    
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    December 17, 2023 8:54pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They have blown it, there is footage of 3 hostages being killed after they flew the white flag
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:11pm
  - Paulus
    
    Where and why these hostages released, or what happened is was what Hamas expected ?
    Great PR for them.
    
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    December 17, 2023 1:12pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Don’t know, but it was on the news they weee killed holding up white flags trying to submit, not sure why they were called hostages when they were submitting, but that’s what they said on the news
      
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      December 17, 2023 1:35pm
      - kowtow
        
        They were called hostages cos they had been kidnapped by the terrorists .
        
        The IDF are in a very difficult position .
        
        This may help.
        
        “The officer said Saturday that troops have killed at least 38 Palestinian gunmen in Shejaiya in recent days.
        
        The military said that the only people seen wearing civilian clothing there have been Hamas operatives, often unarmed.
        
        The operatives collect weapons left behind in various buildings, open fire at troops, and then flee again unarmed to another building.
        
        The IDF has also encountered several seemingly unarmed civilians in Shejaiya who turned out to be Hamas suicide bombers.
        
        There have also been several attempts by Hamas men in the area to lure soldiers into an ambush.”
        
        https://www.timesofisrael.com/initial-idf-probe-hostages-were-shirtless-waving-white-flag-when-troops-opened-fire/
        
        And while we armchair generals may get all expert spare a thought for the commanders of US subs who sank freighters in WW2 carrying Allied troops as slave labour to Japan .And of course they too didn’t know the status of who was on board . There were thousands of such caualties.And as with the Japs who were to blame , so is Hamas, entirely.
        
        “Between 12 and 18 September 1944, Allied forces sank three Japanese steamships that were carrying supplies to support the Japanese war effort. But unknown to the Allies at the time, these ships were also carrying Allied prisoners of war (POWs) and Javanese slave labourers (romushas). The Allies sank other POW transport ships during September 1944, but the sinking of the Kachidoki Maru and the Rakuyo Maru on 12 September led to the first eyewitness accounts being given by former POWs to Allied administrations about conditions in camps on the Thailand-Burma railway, whilst the sinking of the Junyo Maru on 18 September was one of the deadliest maritime disasters of the Second World War. The two sinkings, only six days apart, resulted in the deaths of over 7,000 men.”
        
        Source IWM.
        
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        December 17, 2023 2:58pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Killing unarmed men in their underwear waving a white flag seems to be a violation of generally accepted rules of war. If it’s happened here it seems likely it’s happened before. The Israeli problem here is that they shot Israelis, that’s why we know about it.
      We will learn a lot more if we see the soldiers court martialed and punished. It’s always a good idea to publicize how you discipline your troops, it’s an important deterrence for the rest. If the fate of those who pulled the trigger just disappears from the news we can draw some inferences from that.
      If the IDFs rules, implicit or explicit is some sort of “kill them all and let God sort them out’ then those soldiers will have a good defense to use it court. Who would lay down and be punished by the officer corps for doing exactly what the officers told them to do? The soldier would want to make that known. Maybe better for the IDF to attempt to bury the whole thing.
      
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      December 17, 2023 7:37pm
- Ra Henare
  
  David,
  I suggest you read more widely on the conflict. Rather than rely on the 6pm TV news.
  
  Both Vietnam and Palestine have one thing in common, along with the Guerrilla warfare tactics.
  
  Both are manned by local people fighting for their freedom.
  
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  December 17, 2023 1:28pm
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    They’ve had freedom for twenty years, and stonking amounts of aid, and they’ve done nothing with it except buying and manufacturing weapons, lobbing them in the general direction of Israel, and educating their children in nothing but hate. Israel wants them to stop doing that.
    
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    December 17, 2023 2:19pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Dudley, I dont know what your definition of freedom is.????? But most definitions include freedom of movement, trade without restriction, freedom of property ownership and no external controlling body.
      
      or did you miss the bit about UN resolutions including condemning illegal land occupations by Israel and other small erasure of freedoms.
      
      But your bias is on full display. Dont let me interrupt your rant.
      
      Like my suggestion to David, I suggest you actually read a bit more and stop getting your only information from 6PM TV news.
      
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      December 17, 2023 7:50pm
Biscuit

Reakky, KIwibloggers?

First time in here since a v. successful trip to the Hong Kong International Races and, at 9.15 am, there’s just two General Debate posts up?

I know the new Government are good – I mean, just look how they’ve improved the weather here in Upper Hutt – but I thought SOMEONE might be complaining!
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December 17, 2023 9:19am
- pdm
  
  It must be nookie morning Biscuit.
  
  ps I had a comment on the Hooten thingy an hour or more ago. No nookie for me – too bloody hot for that carry on in Hastings today..
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:22am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  Indeed. Maybe some of the regulars had a big night last night.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:22am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think that it is more likely that the moderators are having a sleep in.
  
  [Mod – a nice long soak in the spa]
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:23am
  - Biscuit
    
    Benedict, that or they’re Manchester City supporters sulking that their fave side has forgotten how to win, heh…
    
    And, lookety, which fabulous footballing mob tops the Premiership as I drool?
    
    When you walk et cetera…
    
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    December 17, 2023 9:27am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      YNWA Biscuit…. long may this seasons trends of Redmen wins and Sky Blue points being dropped….
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:34am
    - pdm
      
      Biscuit – I thought `The Gunners’ (Woolwich/Arsenal) were on top!!!
      
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      December 17, 2023 10:57am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Hey Biscuit, have you got any stories or tales about Hong Kong; stuff that we will not read in our newspapers. Gentlemen of your ilk usually have a few interesting titbits to tell.
  I’m waiting for Waipiro to race in Hong Kong in March. Our Maori Minister of Racing, who enjoys a drink or two, will want to bet on it.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:57am
  - Biscuit
    
    Just for you, TN!:
    
    Tuesday December 5:
    
    Now, long-term Travelogue readers of mine will know that, even being as restrained and wouldn’t-hurt-a-fly as I am, I will have no qualms (once I am appointed Master of the Universe) in having low-lives like these folk rounded up for Summary Execution:
    • Red Greens voters
    • Fans of Manchester Censored United
    • Sportspeople who wear uniform-inappropriate multi-coloured boots
    • Justin Bieber, Bono and assorted other ‘Merchants of Noise’
    • Quade Bloody Cooper
    
    If those folk aren’t yet just a little alarmed at seeing their names on that list, they sure as Hell should be after hearing what I did tonight, ha.
    
    Why so?
    
    Well, go to ‘Goose Neck Bridge’ in Causeway Bay here, cross a little old lady’s palm with HK $50, write a name on a piece of paper and she’ll start smacking it with a shoe while chanting before burning it in the flames.
    
    This is the ancient Chinese ritual of ‘da siu yan’, or ‘villain hitting’.
    
    Worth a go, eh?
    
    So we looked on, multiples of HK $50 lighter, ha, as 76-year-old Granny Leung squatted at a makeshift shrine with joss sticks (natch!) burning beside her, and started bashing various piece(s) of paper with a pair of sandals. For ten minutes, no less!
    
    ‘I beat you little people, I’m sending you away!’ she chants. She pauses, taking aim at the paper, then bashes the sandal down like a chef with a cleaver, chopping and chanting in Cantonese. ‘Beat your little hand, beat your little eye, beat your little foot, beat your little mouth,’ she mutters, smashing the ‘small person’, a Chinese phrase meaning one who’s petty, villainous or otherwise a ‘bad guy.’
    
    Granny Leung curses your enemies, whether abstract ones like bad health and unemployment (the villains facing Hong Kong today) or specific ones like a boss, co-worker or ex-lovers. She summons spells to break negative influences and provides an immediate, almost cleansing satisfaction by beating a paper version of one’s nemesis to tatters.
    
    [I made sure to pay extra so that Quade Bloody Cooper copped a fresh beating on the morrow…]
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:45am
  - pdm
    
    TN – I bet he knows all the back alleys and dens of iniquity there.
    
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    December 17, 2023 10:59am
Southern Raider

Amazing how capitalism and competition works without having to involve the Govt

Yesterday saw that Life Pharmacy (probably widest spread network in NZ) is now offering free prescriptions.

Haven’t seen the media pick up on this in their anti Coalition stories
33 2
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December 17, 2023 9:50am
- Chuck Bird
  
  So does Chemist Warehouse.
  
  17 1
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  December 17, 2023 10:14am
  - kevn
    
    Chuck… Zoom Pharmacy and Countdown chemists.
    
    8 0
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    December 17, 2023 11:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Have always done since Warehouse Chemists started in New Zealand.
    
    4 0
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    December 17, 2023 1:14pm
- SoloView
  
  The $5 prescription charge was removed on the 1st July 2023.
  
  Perhaps Life Pharmacy will still do free prescriptions when charges are re-introduced.
  
  6 0
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  December 17, 2023 10:32am
- Ghost
  
  Nothing to report. The labour govt removed $5 prescription fees months ago. National haven’t put them back on yet
  
  9 2
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  December 17, 2023 10:35am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    January 1 I think, I will be getting free meds on Dec 29
    
    4 0
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    December 17, 2023 12:13pm
  - mogg
    
    Do remember that the return of prescription charge money will go towards funding more drugs for treating cancer. I think that people who hold community cards will still get free regardless. I am not known for my generosity but I will happily pay more for a treatment which could save or prolong the life of a young mother dying unnecessarily.
    
    5 1
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    December 17, 2023 1:30pm
    - Ghost
      
      Community service and gold card will remain fee free
      
      6 1
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      December 17, 2023 2:07pm
      - rockape
        
        Gold card isn’t free.
        
        4 2
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        December 17, 2023 4:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        “We think this is a better use of taxpayers’ money than paying $5 prescription fees for everyone, including those who can afford to pay it themselves. Under National, superannuitants and those on low incomes will receive free prescriptions (via the Community Services Card or SuperGold Card).
        
        Article
        
        4 0
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        December 17, 2023 4:17pm
- Paul
  
  Pilldrop offers free delivery also!
  
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  December 17, 2023 8:59pm
nathie

A question on behalf of Simeon!

Can roading bitumen be reused or recycled?

Asking as wondering if the thousands of car-chassis crunching speed-bumps that appeared out of nowhere during Labour’s term (even in quiet residential streets with barely a few cars passing each hour) can now be removed (or maybe reused to fill in pot holes)?!!

Why not, after all “recycling” is meant to be good for the environment (so there – JAG)!
19 2
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December 17, 2023 10:32am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They mill the top layers on roads when replacing, and they do reuse some of the left over material
  
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  December 17, 2023 12:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They do in Anchorage Alaska. Reused mixed with new stuff.
  In summer, outside the motel they ground out, compacted, re-sealed and roadmarked 100 meters overnight.
  Get that Fulton bloody Hogan? OVERNIGHT!
  I am sure part of the Masden Refinery deal by-product bitumen was pushed by the Greens. Now we have pot holes with repairs done with shit bitumen.
  
  5 2
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  December 17, 2023 4:08pm
- MCōs
  
  Speed humps may or may not have proliferated over the last six years, but they are a local council initiative not NZTA.
  On Bridge Ct there is a cautionary sign referring to ‘Judder Bar’ An American visitor thought it was a pub
  
  2 0
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  December 17, 2023 4:34pm
  - Paul
    
    Specifically designed to rip lowrider altered cars, nothing to do with children. The cops had a hand in this. Many speed Bumps in low income housing areas, every 60 metres!
    
    1 0
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    December 17, 2023 9:02pm
JimBobJoe

Shipping attacks in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden on the increase…. Not good for international trade or inflation (additional insurance costs will flow through into retail prices you can bet your bottom dollar as well increased fuel costs for avoiding the area). See Youtube video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elvHcJqJagQ&ab_channel=WhatisGoingonWithShipping%3F

I reckon Iran is playing a very dangerous game via its Houthi proxies. I suspect they are trying to lure the West into a land war in Yemen to neutralise Houthi attacks on shipping, on top of the Wests commitments to Ukraine and Israel currently.

Iran may get its wish or it may just get massive new sanctions and some targeted attacks on its own infrastructure in the Persian Gulf as a quid pro quo response. I am sure Israel will have no problems in getting their ethnic minority friends inside Iran to undertake some sabotage…

A wide war in the Middle East seems to be almost inevitable if Iran and its proxies dont back off….

The good thing about all this is its raising defense issues up in US politics, particularly around naval power. If the US cant maintain naval superiority then CCP hegemony becomes much more likely. And that is not great for any form of freedom anywhere in the pacific including NZ
13 1
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December 17, 2023 10:41am
- ClanMcleod
  
  With the increased range and capabilities of current missile technology, including the ability to circumnavigate the globe multiple times, naval power is becoming irrelevant.
  
  7 8
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  December 17, 2023 11:30am
  - mogg
    
    Naval power would still be necessary eg, China invasion of Taiwan, you can bet your boots that Taiwan Straits will have sea floor AI mines and torpedoes, they won’t know what has hit them.
    
    8 0
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    December 17, 2023 1:54pm
  - Jack5
    
    Clan’s …naval power is becoming irrelevant …
    
    With about 50 nuclear powered missile launching subs in five countries it isn’t irrelevant.
    
    Naval air power is still relevant, as the effects of America moving carrier groups into the Mediterranean in the Hamas war shows.
    
    Did something similar happen when Australia dn NZ went to East Timor’s aid? America moved a carrier into relevant position and Indonesia did not go fully to war.
    
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    December 17, 2023 2:42pm
- kowtow
  
  Oil price would sky rocket ……..oh wait , no one uses that stuff anymore so we’ll be ok , innit.
  
  12 0
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  December 17, 2023 11:44am
- Paulus
  
  As a one time, many moons ago, as a part time War Risk Underwriter in the Lloyds/London Market, it becomes too expensive even for the fleet owners to pay the premiums required for the risk of losing their vessels.
  
  7 0
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  December 17, 2023 1:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Paulus, were special contracts needed for war damage?
    
    Does marine insurance typically exclude “acts of war” – force majeure?
    
    3 0
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    December 17, 2023 2:44pm
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s likely that Iran has nuclear weapons now – just not publicly declared (matching 1940’s tech is easy in 2020’s), they’re enriching enough uranium to build a warhead every few weeks (from memory). They’ll be working to build up stockpiles of a few hundred warheads so that nobody will be able to attack them again.
  
  Attacking Iran might go very very badly unless it is done as a massive first strike, perhaps nuclear. But they are now a serious existential risk for Israel – when one of the client terror groups of the theocratic death-cult leadership of Iran is given a few bombs to play with the state of Israel could quickly be wiped off the map.
  
  5 2
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  December 17, 2023 3:30pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just take out the top brass with drones.
    Trump did it, or was that in Iraq?
    
    3 2
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    December 17, 2023 4:17pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      It wouldn’t be like Michael Corleone knocking off the heads of the 5 families in Godfather II.
      Bump off a General and there are plenty of Colonels to be the next General.
      Even with some sort of massive perfectly timed surprise attack there will be plenty of tier-2 leaders around to step up. Now with the incentive to retaliate.
      
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      December 17, 2023 7:48pm
- Paul
  
  Maersk has suspended shipping. As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, “and so it goes”.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:04pm
goNZ1

Here Ye Hear Ye ! “There is a Rahui in place on Ocean Beach following discovery of a body. ” ( Ed. so what?)
“The rāhui comes after police recovered a body from the shoreline at the beach near Hastings this morning.
“We have advised people to stay out of the water, but we can’t stop them,” Ocean Beach Kiwi Surf Life Saving Club patrol captain Jamie Nichols said. ( stating the obvious there)
“There are quite a few people here, and some are swimming.” ( Oooooo the naughty peasants,do they think they are allowed to do that?)
12 4
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December 17, 2023 12:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Do they realise that fish die in the sea too?
  Advising people to stay out of the water is pathetic, a ‘rahui’ is double pathetic.
  Those who recovered the body were in the water, will they have to be exercised?
  
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  December 17, 2023 4:21pm
Jack5

UK Prime Minister Sunak nails it …

From the Telegraph:

Hostile states will increasingly “drive people to our shores” to destabilise Western nations unless leaders crack down on illegal migration and revamp asylum conventions, Rishi Sunak has said.

The newspaper reports 292 migrants crossed the English Channel in seven boats on Friday.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/12/16/rishi-sunak-giorgia-meloni-illegal-migrants-britain-reforms/
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December 17, 2023 12:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/broadcaster-sean-plunket-interviews-julian-batchelor-who-reveals-stop-co-governance-plans-for-2024/

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-BFD-Time-to-Put-up-the-Littlewood-Treaty.pdf
5 2
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December 17, 2023 12:55pm
- Mike
  
  Still on about the Littlewood document?
  
  3 14
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  December 17, 2023 1:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Go away Mike. You know that the James Freeman one in Te Papa was not the truth.
    You also know that one day you will have to admit it.
    
    7 4
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    December 17, 2023 3:12pm
    - Mike
      
      Nonsense. Reading the pseudohistory on that blog will rot your brain.
      
      5 6
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      December 17, 2023 3:44pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        So “forestry and fisheries” is in the original Treaty written in Maori?
        Yes or no? Don’t fuck about!
        
        5 3
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        December 17, 2023 4:26pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        See? Mike won’t answer that LOL!
        
        3 2
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        December 17, 2023 6:13pm
Hugh Jarse

Amazing how the media are reporting every news hour on the accidental killing of three Israeli hostages during a military operation in Gaza, but nothing, nil, zilch on the Israeli hostages being executed by Hamas on it seems a daily basis to prevent the true story of what has been done to them getting out.

While the accidental killings are newsworthy I would have thought that so was the deliberate execution of innocent witnesses.
22 2
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December 17, 2023 1:11pm
- Jake Dee
  
  It would only be an accidental killing if they were not killed deliberately. A negligent discharge “Whoops my finger slipped!” sort of a deal. As there were 3 men killed by multiple shooters that sort of thing would be impossible.
  If the facts reported are accurate it looks like the deliberate killing of three unarmed men in their underwear waving white flags.
  The only unintentional thing here seems to be the killing of Israelis, it looks like the deliberate killing of unarmed surrendering men. Generally considered to be a war crime.
  That’s what makes it interesting. Exactly how the IDF react to this will also be very interesting.
  
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  December 17, 2023 7:58pm
Ra Henare

I love some of the names used by some of KB commenters.
Not the boring names like Steve Otto, David Garret
But amongst my favorite’s.
Hugh Jarse
Close Hen Counters.
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December 17, 2023 1:39pm
- Swifty
  
  Some other notables from Kiwiblog past:
  
  Falafula Fisi
  TrevorMallardSucksMyBalls
  Cullen’s Sidekick which became Sir Cullen’s Sidekick at Cullen’s knighthood.
  
  I’ll try to think of a few others.
  
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  December 17, 2023 2:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “Can we fix it? No it’s fucked”
    I might have used that on Whaleoil.
    
    4 1
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    December 17, 2023 4:29pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      shezzafucked [ in South Africa]
      
      2 0
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      December 17, 2023 6:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I’m not boring!
  Oh wait, my partner say I am sometimes 🙂
  
  5 1
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  December 17, 2023 4:27pm
- Paul
  
  I could use “Stop taking sides, you are being Tribal” as my moniker, but that would be too anonymous.
  We are all Tribal, not much unity amongst Humans!.
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:07pm
Hugh Jarse

Thanks Ra !
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December 17, 2023 1:54pm
Ghost

Damn

This is a Motormouth couple car video discussing the cost to replace the battery in 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5. After finding out that his battery protection cover was scratched, the owner was told the battery needed to be replace for more than he paid for the car brand new. Over $60,000, so he decided to make a claim on his insurance and have the car written off.

YouTube
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December 17, 2023 2:13pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Is this just teething problems with EVs as repair industry learns how to handle them or is it a genuine long term vehicle life and value-destroying issue? If it’s really serious it will increase depreciation and hurt resale that will put off customers (so maybe market will fix it)
  
  Other fixes would be Battery swap (which would best solution for long range), or mandated long term battery pack replacement standards (eg make it a condition of EV sale that battery packs be replaceable in under 8 hours with new pack costs under $150/kWh) and that new packs be available for 15 years after sale.
  
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  December 17, 2023 3:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    At this stage the Electric Vehicle is below the Edsel of the motoring world.
    Remember the first wireless phones? The ones in a big suitcase.
    That is where we are now. By the time technology has improved there will not be enough minerals left for the battery.
    
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    December 17, 2023 4:40pm
kevn

Nothing… Like the LPG gas bottle swaps? Just drive in and slip the ‘new’ charged battery in? Happens in China now. But… how about this :
The new E synthetic fuel that works for ICE cars. Made from water and carbon dioxide, no emissions.
https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/life/motoring/2023-12-05-porsche-911-summits-the-tallest-volcano-on-earth/
EV’s may just become polluting dinosaurs.
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December 17, 2023 4:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Doing it with a truck apparently. Auckland – Hamilton.
  3 batteries. One on board, one charged, and one just charging. 5 min changeover.
  Mainfreight?
  
  3 1
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  December 17, 2023 4:42pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Synthetic petrol might be a long term solution for the things that can’t be electrified, but last I checked it was 10x price of out-of-ground stuff for water+CO2 stuff, only 2-3x using biomass approach. That’s a very long way to go to get price down.
  
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  December 17, 2023 6:15pm
  - kevn
    
    Nothing… Indeed. Scale will push the price down. Must happen.
    Thing is, we will run out of the EV minerals soon enough. There is not an infinite source and what is there, is very localized.
    
    2 0
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    December 17, 2023 7:01pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      I’m looking forward to the ICE vs EV by Kiwi in America. He said he would address the battery minerals issue. I’m interested to see what approach he takes, I hope it isn’t current estimated reserves in the ground divided by current growth of use.
      New technology use follows an “S” type growth curve, slow, then very fast, before slowing down again as the market gets saturated.
      Metals are also excellent for recycling, they don’t burn like hydrocarbons. There must be gigantic amounts of gold and silver still in use today that was first pulled out of the earth by Romans and Aztecs.
      
      3 1
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      December 17, 2023 8:08pm
- Paul
  
  We all drive ICE vehicles, a proportion of the propulsion is on free Oxygen, should Oxygen be taxed?
  
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  December 17, 2023 9:10pm
Steve Todd

Until today, I was really looking forward to watching the cricket on TVNZ+ and Duke this summer, but now I’m not so sure. (I gave Sky away in 2004.)

The male commentator in Dunedin today has made reference to expressions such as “back to the dugout” (when he meant the dressing room) and “bunt and run”.

Why are these baseball/softball terms entering cricket? ‘Batter’ was already beyond the pale (see https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/07/general_debate_15_july_2023.html/comment-page-1#comment-3402298), but dugout and bunt?

Groan.
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December 17, 2023 5:18pm
- Swifty
  
  I haven’t followed any of the discussion in cricket that led up to the decision to label all batsmen as batters – so I’m not aware of the rationale.
  
  So therefore, I’m not sure why, when you’re referring to male ‘batters’ you can’t refer to them as batsmen. Not when women are playing, you can’t refer to them as batswomen.
  
  Just what’s so wrong with that? I just don’t know.
  
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  December 17, 2023 6:01pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    I don’t think there was any discussion, Swifty. Fairly suddenly, some years ago now, with the rise of women’s cricket, the decision was made on high to be non-sexist/woke, by referring to batters. With regard to men’s cricket, I hate it.
    
    But it’s these baseball terms that really get up my nose. Why is that happening? Imagine an American baseball commentator saying a batter was heading back to the dressing room!
    
    It must have something to do with mass, instant, communications, the ubiquity of American sports in our living rooms (but not in mine). Whatever the reason, it’s just awful.
    
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    December 17, 2023 8:07pm
    - Colville
      
      What’s wrong with it?
      Actors are actors irrespective of the content of the their pants.
      A bunt is a simple drop shot.
      Get over yourself.
      
      0 1
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      December 17, 2023 10:08pm
- Eugene
  
  Let alone the commentators and graphics frequently and unnecessarily referring to Dunedin by another name. I think I will pass on cricket watching this summer if TVNZ keep this crusade going. I watch sport to be entertained, not brainwashed.
  
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  December 17, 2023 7:15pm
Swifty

Kelvin Davis getting hammered on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/share/9PREyKMcbU8Qt7yZ/?mibextid=WC7FNe

What did he actually achieve?
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December 17, 2023 9:18pm
Ghost

Damn. Wonder why the planes weren’t flown out beforehand

Queensland floods: 10-year-old struck by lightning and Cairns airport ‘under water’
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December 17, 2023 10:29pm

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