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December 22, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 December 2023

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General Debate

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peterwn

“Green MP Chlöe Swarbrick has belatedly apologised to Parliament a week after saying in the debating chamber Prime Minister Christopher Luxon had lied – a breach of the rules.”
She probably forgot that the left wing no longer had majority that may have otherwise saved her.
I suspect she was discreetly told to apologise or incur the full wraith of the Privileges Committee. Giving her time to reflect on the matter was a good move on the part of those having to deal with it.
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December 22, 2023 8:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Hard to believe she has a law degree.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:07am
  - Paulus
    
    So she has a Law degree (just quite easy exams) – in New Zealand today there are many many young women with law degrees who will never get near the Law.
    Did she ever actually get to the Bar ?
    – no, not the booze bar !
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:17am
    - David Garrett
      
      Paulus: If you think getting a law degree involves “just quite easy exams” you have clearly not sat many such exams at a proper law school (One of the original four law schools)…torts for example…I have never known of anyone who got a B+ or better in that very case heavy subject who thought it was “easy”
      
      May I enquire what sort of degree you have? If it’s other than engineering, I say you are talking ill informed crap.
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:13am
      - herb1
        
        Well said David
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:43am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Lawyers aren’t particularly bright. That might explain the exam results .
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:09pm
      - jonno1
        
        David, I agree with one proviso: a law degree requires a prodigious memory, whereas engineering requires an understanding of “first principles”. So they are different in nature. I hold both engineering and commerce degrees. The latter was a doddle (and no doubt much easier than law), but did exercise my memory far more, eg “the debit column is nearest to the window”.
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:30pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Jonno: as my comment implied, at least when I was a law student it was well recognised that we law students came a somewhat distant second to the engineers.
        
        However, an excellent memory is just part of it, and I agree that one can probably pass – albeit with very average marks – with just that alone, and an IQ comfortably north of 100. (David Lange once said all you need to pass a law degree is an IQ well above 100 and a good memory)
        
        But if you want to do more than pass, you also need very good comprehension and reasoning skills as well as good writing skills. A typical question in a law exam – say in contract or torts – will be a two or three paragraph scenario of 750 words or so, within which there will be half a dozen “issues” which need commenting on with reference to the relevant law.
        
        Miss one or two of those issues because you haven’t read carefully enough, or be unable to quote the applicable law on one or two, and you will be lucky to get a C…you certainly wouldn’t get a B+ or better, which when I was at law school was the bare minimum if you wanted to get honours.
        
        Modesty precludes me from saying what my grade average was!
        
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        December 22, 2023 1:06pm
      - Paulus
        
        No, am over 80 when University after WW11 in UK was not on. I lived in London during WW11 and did 20 years in the City as eventually a Director of part of a major Public Company.
        Came to New Zealand as transfer of New Zealand MD to London – where he stayed, as we did here.
        During 50 years in New Zealand a Director of many companies and CEO of a multi million Financial Corporation in Wellington.
        Asked once was I an Accountant ? I was rude enough to say no I will employ them when I want one, similarly with Senior Lawyers in Major Law Firms.
        I understand that it is almost impossible even with a Law Degree to get a decent job in New Zealand – unless you are related, and a women.
        
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        December 22, 2023 1:41pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Paulus, I don’t fully understand your particular brand of stupid, but I do admire your total commitment to it.
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:08pm
  - Damocles11
    
    She also has a degree in smugness, and another one in arrogance.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:22am
  - Vinicius
    
    Not to me. I sure think she knew the rules as an experienced MP and with a new Parliament and Speaker she tried some brinkmanship with the Standing Orders and eventually had to apologise. Interesting she chose to apologise at 11.40pm a couple of nights back.
    
    Not surprising from a person with her smarmy manner and a big ego.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:46am
  - thirteenstars
    
    No, it’s not. Most lawyers are glorified box-tickers, amoral by nature, and have never seen the inside of a courtroom unless they themselves are being tried for embezzlement.
    
    I’m joking! The charge is usually money laundering.
    
    Upshot is, it doesn’t take a genius to complete an LLB. Just ask any honest lawyer. Oh, dear, what am I saying…
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:46am
    - David Garrett
      
      Another ill informed idiot…who doesn’t have a law degree from a bona fide law school.
      
      BTW I have spent hundreds of hours in courtrooms in two countries…only 1.5 of those hours involved me as the defendant (forgery of a passport application 40 years ago and drink driving)
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:16am
      - Colinxy
        
        Out of curiosity, have the current law schools in NZ started having Critical Legal Studies papers in their curricula?
        
        This is the type of thing that allows the low-intelligent (of the “high” intelligent) people to get STEM degrees in the USA. They don’t do physics papers, they do “critical” physics papers. This is how you get, for example, fully peer reviewed published science articles like (and I kid you not) “Glaciers, gender, and science: A feminist glaciology framework for global environmental change research”.
        
        If Critical Legal Studies has infiltrated law degrees in NZ, it might explain people like Swarbrick.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:31am
      - David Garrett
        
        Colinxy: I have no idea…I graduated more than 30 years ago with an LL.B (Hons) from Canterbury…and I certainly didn’t find any of the degree “easy”, although some papers were certainly more challenging than others.
        
        More recent grads may have something useful to say.
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:04pm
      - Colinxy
        
        Thanks David, I had thought you might have kept up with it, since it is your specialty.
        
        I have partially answered my own question. The University of Otago established Critical Legal Studies in 2007 – according to Wikipedia. “In New Zealand, the University of Otago Legal Issues Centre was established at the university’s law faculty in 2007.”
        
        I don’t know where or when Swarbrick got her law degree, but you may have to revise your opinion about law degrees being tough to get in light of Critical Legal Studies.
        
        The basic gist of any Critical Theory (and Critical Legal Studies is a Critical Theory) is to criticise something until you either rule or ruin it (modelled after Karl Marx himself with the First International).
        
        This is known in Critical Theory as “negation”. This is the antithesis part of the thesis plus antithesis through struggle becomes synthesis triad. To use Hegel’s own language (in English) it is abstract plus its negation becomes (through struggle) concrete.
        
        Given the low “bar” required to pass Critical Theory papers, getting such a law degree probably through them isn’t all that hard to do. I mean, all you have to do is be negative about the status quo – no matter how flimsy the association.
        
        While the University of Otago has formally set up CLS, it doesn’t mean the rot hasn’t infiltrated other universities’ law schools.
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:32pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        Oh, David, you need to learn to take a joke. Your sensitivity kind of reveals the truth of the low regard in which many pen-pushing lawyers are held.
        
        Here’s a goodie:
        
        Q: What does a lawyer get when you give him Viagra?
        
        A: Taller.
        
        We might do electrician jokes next. Any sparkies here?
        
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        December 22, 2023 1:03pm
      - David Garrett
        
        thirteen: Unless I am much less aware than I think I am, the person wasn’t joking…and having spent five hard years getting two degrees, including an LL.B (Hons), I do get a bit prickly when it is suggested that getting same is a matter of “sitting a few easy exams”
        
        And YES I am rather proud of my law degree…and deeply disappointed that I was only one ‘A’ away from getting a much coveted First rather than the 2:1 I do have.
        
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        December 22, 2023 3:03pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        “…the person wasn’t joking…”
        
        It’s *my* commentary that I was referring to when I said you need to take a joke.
        
        Further, it wasn’t aimed at you in particular. I, too, have two degrees yet I’m painfully aware that many others with those qualifications are seen as being a little suspect yet I don’t take offence when they are maligned. I do my thing, they do theirs.
        
        I’m sure you’ve never lacked for clients because lawyers in general have sharp jokes aimed at them. Take solace in the fact that for many things people are obliged to hire a lawyer. It’s quite comforting when you think about it.
        
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        December 22, 2023 3:35pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        Well said, David, between you and peterwn we get the best facts regarding the actual law.
        
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        December 22, 2023 6:54pm
      - lemuzz
        
        David. Some lawyers ARE dishonest.
        1.I was sold a pirated accountancy package from a lawyer when I got my first computer.
        2. As an engineer I had to take a lawyer (who was the owner of a large dairy farm) to court and I won my case for non payment for work done. He was known in our district as the ELF not because of his short stature, which he was, but because he was an “Evil Little Fukcer”
        3. A lawyer, a QC no less, who owned a family business, paid for work done with a dud cheque. Although, he did make amends later for that.
        
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        December 23, 2023 2:01pm
- leoj
  
  Even harder to believe that this post received a downtick.
  
  But then, we know that the Greens are unhinged.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:23am
- mw
  
  I stand by my statement and I will take my punishment she said.
  Then a midnight apology. What makes you back down from your convictions after you say you will take whatever they give you? Did they threaten to take some of her pay?
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:12am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Scuttling in around midnight to say sorry hardly demonstrates genuine contrition.
  
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  December 23, 2023 8:58pm
CJames

The number of “experts” the media are quoting as predicting doom and gloom if the government enacts policies they got elected on is getting tiresome isn’t it? The first thing is their expertise is often very thin. In reality, they are just left-wing academics hanging out in the sheltertered workshops that universities have become. Words are violence, you know, especially if they oppose your rigid views. The second is they can’t get over that the PMG have been rejected. We won, you lost, eat that to paraphrase Mr Cullen. NZers don’t want their bossiness and hypocrisy any more. The electorate may make mistakes, but they can’t be worse than the ones the managerial class did.
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December 22, 2023 8:01am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Totally agree Cjames . Newshub in particular likes to lead with such crap. If I were their share holders I would be asking serious questions about the editors and sub editors in their news room whilst they still have an audience to advertise to. Certainly bull shitting them every night with painfully transparent anti government tosh is not going to grow an audience , especially from a country that’s just voted that government in on a clear mandate to do exactly what they’re doing. I’m not surprised by their overt political bias , nothing would surprise me after the Nosey Parker white supremacy story that became a laughing stock worldwide, but I’m amazed that they are getting away with it whilst the share holders watch their audience dwindle. The whole company could do with a pull through with a Christmas tree.
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:17am
  - David Garrett
    
    Stella: The whole company could do with a pull through with a Christmas tree.
    
    Brilliant sir/madam! I am going to pinch that one… very evocative
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:32am
    - Ezekial231
      
      DG,
      You may need to explain that for the millennials and post CMT, Cadet Corp generations who don’t know one end of a Lee Enfield from the other.
      McK
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:06am
      - David Garrett
        
        Happy to Sir: a pull through is a cleaning agent – like a rag or a small brush just bigger than the internal diameter of a gun barrel – attached to a string a foot or so longer than said barrel, with a weight on the end of the string.
        
        The weight is dropped down the barrel until the rag/reaches the muzzle…the said rag/brush is then pulled through the barrel, thus cleaning it.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:19am
      - Dairy Flat
        
        Once upon a time we used to refer to particularly inept individuals as “pull throughs”, albeit a pull through is useful.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:36am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Ezekial231 mine was a L1A1 SLR 7.62mm Soldiers for the use of to be picky.
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:34pm
      - Cassandra
        
        I am disappointed that 4×2 didn’t get a mention. So-called because it measures…………………… 4×2.
        
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        December 22, 2023 12:44pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    None of the leftie media are going to survive without govt funding that they have become addicted to – certainly more than half their income. So the govt have the chance to fix the rot and restore balance to media landscape.
    
    Whether they do so remains to be seen. I’m not that optimistic.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:00am
  - Paulus
    
    Take away Taxpayers (PIJF etc) money and they will then have to fend for themselves, which will include persuading companies to advertise – they will only if the sales support warrants it – many have dropped their advertising recently.
    Government were the largest spending on advertising in the so called media.
    Watch this space.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:21am
  - Damocles11
    
    If you were a person with a brilliant mind you’d become an engineer, a doctor, a scientist. Someone who is going to make a real contribution to humanity. Psuedo intellectuals and Leftists in general pursue degrees which are worthless in every sense except in that they bolster their Leftist political credentials, and they then spend their lives sucking from the public teat as ivory tower academics. They obtain comfortable though powerful positions from which they push their woke and marxist propaganda onto the young and impressionable; it is deliberately done.
    They should be treated as the dangerous parasites they are, not as notable pundits with something worthwhile to tell us.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:53am
    - NothingLeft
      
      ‘If you were a person with a brilliant mind you’d become an engineer, a doctor, a scientist.’
      
      Smart people become eentrepreneurs. And businesscowners. More rewarding.
      
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      December 22, 2023 7:16pm
    - leoj
      
      This is SO true. Many degrees are worthless in the real world.
      
      1) How many degrees are actually the basis of future employment? I bet the percentage number is far lower than one might expect.
      
      2) What percentage of useless (soft) degrees are achieved by women? I bet the percentage is far higher than one might expect.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:39pm
  - GregM
    
    Newshub is utterly unwatchable now. Since being told to tone down on the Maori wonderfulness it appears they have doubled down.
    Like I say, unwatchable.
    
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    December 22, 2023 11:35am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      “…..Since being told to tone down on the Maori wonderfulness…”
      Really? Who told them to and when?
      A link to an evidential source is always helpful when questionable claims are made.l
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:57am
- Vinicius
  
  There’s a story on NZ Herald (paywalled) that screams the headline National and ACT at loggerheads over tax (current heading on the NZH homepage).
  
  Reading the article reveals that the two parties are discussing the mechanics of the tax cut policy due in 2024 and how it will work. Seymour is quoted as saying that “he was grateful the Government was investigating whether there might be a better way of providing tax relief than what National proposed.”
  
  Hardly sounds like the two sides are at loggerheads but are trying to form a good policy.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/national-act-at-odds-over-how-to-provide-tax-cuts-and-end-property-interest-deduction-rule/6QUINWP54BB3JNBJ7Y3JPFLZMA/ (Premium content paywalled)
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:03am
  - Paulus
    
    Just the leading Opposition, the Media Party ~!
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:22am
  - MikeMan
    
    But the MSM cannot have anyone thinking that this might be a reasoned and adult government that actually thinks through the implications of a policy BEFORE making it public.
    
    That would show exactly how bad the last lot were.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:56am
- Clyde
  
  Spot on CJames. How the media manipulate the facts should be obvious to any thinking person, but the reality is that it is done through subtle means. As an example, recently there was a story about something like the axing of the racist maori health authority or something like that. TV1 chose to get that Hone Harawira to comment. First establishing shot in the story to cover the introductory voice over was Harawira sitting on a bench outside a marae with a little kid on his knee stroking the kids hair. That shot was staged. The subsequent interview showed Harawira in full threatening war vitriol with no kid in sight. This is just one of the subtle ways in which TV misrepresents the truth. Selection of vox pops, or quick interviews in the street is another. Do you know how many vox pops were not shown because they didn’t accord with the broadcaster’s narrative? Of course not.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:04am
  - Positan
    
    Two suggestions:
    
    1. Purge the press gallery of all but solely objective journalists. That would starve some media outlets, most media stations and almost all newspapers – forcing them to seek accuracy and non-bias.
    
    2. Defund TVNZ. If they want to circulate crap, let them find the financial backing to do so.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:10am
    - Ghost
      
      And what you are suggesting will lead to a massive backlash against the government by the media. Let’s not go down a path of limiting the media because you don’t like how they report.
      
      Before the Ardern/Hipkins govt Tvnz was self funded and paid a dividend back to the govt.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:15am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Well I’m hoping for and expecting an announcement of big savings on media spend of all types in the May budget and also all media asset sales.
        
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        December 22, 2023 10:23am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        “And what you are suggesting will lead to a massive backlash against the government by the media” not if they’ve gone skint.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:01am
      - Ghost
        
        You are dreaming if you think they are going to go bust.
        
        Tv3 is owned by Warner bros, whose owners include block rock, vanguard group.
        
        Both the herald and stuff could survive just in their digital business and close the print if they needed to. On top of that the people who are pushing the agendas would more than keep their mouth pieces alive and publishing.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:18am
      - Positan
        
        Ghost, it’s not that I “don’t like how they report.” I just want to see them report accurately and without bias.
        
        To condone their present conduct any longer will achieve absolutely nothing. When training mules FIRST YOU HAVE TO GET THEIR ATTENTION.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:21am
      - Ghost
        
        Not going to happen
        
        Your vision of the msm is long dead
        
        And if you want to see what you are up against go and google who the main investors of tv3 are
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:32am
      - Colinxy
        
        I have to say Ghost, I don’t know why you’re getting so many downticks. You are correct, the major shareholder cabal are indeed BlackRock, Vanguard Group and the one you missed: State Street Global Investors (the fourth biggest Asset Management company).
        
        The first two are the biggest Asset Management companies. All three of them insist on ESG, DEI, and essentially all the social credit evaluation systems.
        
        All three of them should be considered a cabal; they’re all major shareholders of each other and their typical tactic is for each to buy a decent proportion of, say, a Fortune 500 company. Or in your case Ghost, Warner.
        
        Larry Fink has gone on record that he will force companies to do ESG, DEI etc. Fink is the CEO of BlackRock and a board member of the World Economic Forum. He is one of Klaus Schwab’s henchmen in other words and therefore his enforcer of Stakeholder capitalism.
        
        Ghost may be the bearer of bad news, but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong.
        
        And if you are unaware BlackRock controls something like $USD10 trillion worth of assets. Vanguard Group around $USD8 trillion and State Street around $4.5 trillion. Those aren’t millions or billions. Those are trillions of dollars of control.
        
        And a piece of trivia for you all: Larry Fink’s major wasn’t anything to do with finance; it was political science. That might help you realise what his true ambitions lie.
        
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        December 22, 2023 2:24pm
      - Jack5
        
        Ghost’s … he herald and stuff could survive just in their digital business and close the print if they needed to.
        
        Digital media are to printed newspapers what steam ships were to sailing clippers – the end.
        
        Whether NZME and Stuff’s digital media prosper, just survive, or die depends on advertising as well as on subscribers paying to look.
        
        A bit of a punt …
        
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        December 22, 2023 5:15pm
      - Ghost
        
        NZ herald as of last year had 140,000 digital subscribers. There was a story earlier in the year that put stuff’s website revenue at $50 million
        
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        December 22, 2023 5:29pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        “And what you are suggesting will lead to a massive backlash against the government by the media.”
        
        That is what we have now!
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:02pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        You mean instead of the massive backlash against the goverment that the media is already orchestrating?
        
        We don’t need to limit the media, just to decline to pay for them. Their tens of thousands of grateful readers/viewers will happily subscribe, and then the media will be successful
        
        //s
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:10pm
      - Ghost
        
        You’ve seen nothing yet. The current reporting is tame.
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:26pm
      - Jack5
        
        Current cost of digital subscription to Christchurch Press $288 a year or $24 a month; add Sunday Star access and it’s $372 and $31.
        
        For Wellington’s Post its $230 a year and $24 a month, or $378 and $31.50 if you want Sunday Star.
        
        They seem to throw in printed paper copies free.
        
        Stuff in other regions (scroll down page):
        
        https://stuff.pressreader.com/
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:05pm
    - Paulus
      
      Did I not read that TVNZ had just appointed a new lady CEO ?
      Jodi O’Donnell.
      Will anything change ?
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:23am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Clyde yes the tv media in particular use very dated propaganda techniques long surpassed in Europe. The Story being presented as is gets them around any accusations of bias but then the vox pop persuades the audience what the majority opinion is. Often a few contrary views are allowed in if the member of the public is particularly unattractive in some way. It’s a not very subtle attempt to persuade the audience that they should adopt the opinions of the majority and not be part of any fringe / dummy group whilst allowing the editors to push a narrative as blatantly as they wish. Dated, boring and simplistic proving beyond reasonable doubt that A, these clowns hold their audience in complete contempt and regard themselves as far far more clever
    then them , B they have all come out of the same places of indoctrination and C why they work in New Zealand and not overseas.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:16am
- slightlyrighty
  
  The Media has become cheerleaders for the left in New Zealand. Case in point, the Government is criticised in NZ by the media for it’s statements on Gaza, while Hamas officials praise the official diplomatic position of NZ by name, in it’s calls for a ceasefire
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:14am
- My-Gumboot
  
  The academic elite, legends in their own minds, denying democracy. Sure MMP might not be the best electoral system ever, but it is what we have now. The People have spoken.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:17am
- zulumonster
  
  An excellent expose of the ongoing media manipulation from Robert McCulloch on his blog the other day: He calls out the Heralds “expert” on monetary policy, Toby Moore, who questions the change to the Reserve Bank mandate.
  So who exactly is Toby Moore? He was a senior advisor to Grant Robertson … but no acknowledgement of any possible conflict of interest from the Herald. What a joke.
  https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/how-the-nz-herald-manipulated-you-again-and-again-this-time-about-how-monetary-policy-works
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:59am
- ecco
  
  $$tuffed have got an article crying about the number of laws passed under urgency. The reporter, Glenn O’Connell looks to be of Maori/polynesian descent. Explains it all. Actually was quite a helpful list as it reinforced the way I voted.
  
  The left leaning MSM need to work a bit harder and get some new material and write some more meaningful articles rather than just bleating the Labour/greens/tpm viewpoint. They are too stupid to realise that they might get them some new eyeballs. Someone once mentioned $$tuffed are being propped up by Ngai Tahu. Does anyone know if this is true?
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:06am
  - nathie
    
    Bet the reporter didn’t complain when his favorite leftie Labour Party and socialist youth Prime Minister were regularly ramming laws through under urgency 2020-2023 under their absolute majority. Was there any scrutiny then? Nope!
    
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    December 22, 2023 3:33pm
- jonno1
  
  I’m reminded of the great Greg Murphy opposing 3-year and 12-month WoFs. Very sad that he allowed his name to be associated with that campaign.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:38pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    The MTA paid him for his advocacy. The CEO of MTA I believe “left to spend more time with family”, when the campaign failed miserably at some considerable cost to MTA members…
    
    I hope Mr Murphy was adequately remunerated for lending what at the time was a reasonable reputation to the “cause”
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:14pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Was amused to read the NZHerald article saying The West is toying with the idea of letting Vladimir Putin have Ukraine.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/what-if-russia-wins/RKRIJLZE4VFCFD2X2GIKF6U6FQ/
  
  Written by that well know expert /sarc
  
  Simon Kuper joined the Financial Times in 1994. He wrote the daily currencies column, before leaving the FT in 1998. He returned in 2002 as a sports columnist and has been there ever since. Nowadays he writes a general column for the Weekend FT on all manner of topics from politics to books, and on cities including London, Paris, Johannesburg and Miami
  
  The subbie at NZherald had the gall to insert his opinion.
  
  A counterfactual view of the conflict in Ukraine.
  
  Its been obvious to a blind man. That Ukraine is on the road to ruin and has been for some time.
  
  Blackrock will be the winner in all of this tragedy.
  
  The big question is will the West lift sanctions so that Western Europe can get energy, fertiliser and food from Russia?
  With the sub question. Will Russia want to supply same?
  
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  December 22, 2023 3:35pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Of course the West will. Ukraine has been a dead man walking since the start. But of course Biden will defend them to the last Ukrainian (and the last payment clears).
    
    Putin however, has ample evidence that the “West” is not agreement compatible. So it will be interesting next year. Russia is now talking to Poland and Hungary about partitioning Ukraine back to older borders ….
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:15pm
Chuck Bird

This crap is not premium. A woman does not have a cock.

Opinion: Is the participation of transgender women really the biggest issue facing NZ sport?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/opinion-is-the-participation-of-transgender-women-really-the-biggest-issue-facing-nz-sport/PJTG5AYZ3BH27F2AE2KDAEX35Y/
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December 22, 2023 8:07am
- slightlyrighty
  
  17 Paragraphs of “Look! A Squirrel!”
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:12am
- kowtow
  
  The reporter’s bio says;
  ‘She studied a Bachelor of Communications at Victoria University of Wellington.’
  
  Can someone help here . Do you “study ” a degree .Likewise given it was in communications ,what does that sentence communicate ; that she didn’t finsish her studies ?
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Imagine incurring a pile of student loans to get a “Communications Degree” 🙁
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:24am
    - David Garrett
      
      Bene: Say whatever else you like about her, Ardern is living proof that a degree in “communications” is not a waste of time…she managed to fool an entire country for more than two years…and thereby get the first single majority government in the MMP era. It took three more years for the sheeple to wake up.
      
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      December 22, 2023 9:36am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Err David sorry mate have to pull you up on that one . Ardern at no time fooled an entire country as this bog bares witness. God bless us everyone! Merry Christmas
        
        28 1
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        December 22, 2023 10:21am
      - David Garrett
        
        Stella: Quite correct – I should have said “fooled the vast majority of the voting public”
        
        And Merry Christmas to you too.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:22am
      - Ra Henare
        
        David, if you believe that Ardern did all this based on a communications degree.
        Think again.
        
        May I remind you of the millions spent on PR “”people”” to produce the spin.
        She didnt do it.
        Like a good actor, she merely delivered the lines in their script. With a little bit of “”on message “” improvisations.
        
        I am always amused when Ardern is blamed for many of the decisions of the last Labour Government.
        
        SHE DOESNT MAKE DECISIONS.!!!
        hence the 5,000 working groups.
        
        She is/was just a believable mouthpiece.
        
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        December 22, 2023 5:10pm
    - kowtow
      
      DG
      
      I reckon she couldn’t have done anything except that she had an incredibly sychophantic media behind her , all the way .
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:21am
  - newview
    
    I would say a communication degree shows you how to become a news influencer and to show that their articles are their truth and so should be yours. Of course if their jobs require a different truth they can be adaptable.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:08am
- alloytoo
  
  They say its not an important issue, but they’re devoting an awful lot of column space to it.
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Pask would get one hell of a fright if he groped a transistor in the changing rooms.
  That sheila is a bloke!
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:17am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Chuck Bird “Is the participation of transgender women really the biggest issue facing NZ sport?” Well yes it for women I would think.
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:21am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Mostly it is an issue in elite competitive sport. Women who train for years to get into Commonwealth and Olympic sports should be assured that they are treated fairly. Which means not having to compete against transgender athletes.
    There are most probably elite sports where it may not matter. Shooting?
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:49am
    - Ghost
      
      How about children Wayne? Do girls have the right to compete only against girls in their chosen sports?
      
      This boy was useless at cross country in the boys races until he started racing in the girls competitions, the parents who went to watch their girls race called him a cheat and booed him
      
      https://notthebee.com/article/a-year-after-ranking-172nd-in-freshman-boys-category-this-trans-identified-male-earned-the-title-of-fastest-sophomore-girl-at-regional-championship
      
      We should be encouraging kids to get active in sport, this is what is turning girls away from sport as they know they have little chance against these boys
      
      More
      
      https://thepostmillennial.com/trans-runner-dominates-womens-high-school-cross-country-team-in-washington-state
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/us-students-and-parents-outraged-after-transgender-teen-sprinter-breaks-record/DVODNJX73JZ5FNCYJO53DDYVP4/
      
      It’s not just an issue for elite sport. If it continues woman’s sport will be dead in a few years.
      
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      December 22, 2023 9:56am
      - Paulus
        
        At Saturday local football down the road from me girls play in the same teams as boys – starter to 11 years old or thereabouts, as far as I can see.
        One day ref shouted at one little boy to “pass the ball to the person outside you, to which he yelled back, that is my sister and she cannot kick the ball”
        Smiles all round.
        
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        December 22, 2023 10:30am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Calling him a cheat and booing him, he would take it with a grain of salt.
        His mental illness makes this easy to take. He won and that is all his mental illness requires.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:46am
      - JackRabbit
        
        And 50 year old man who identifies as a young girl…
        
        https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/50-year-old-transgender-woman-shared-pool-locker-room-with-young-girls-at-race/
        
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        December 22, 2023 1:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      It’s not the sport .
      
      It’s the principle .
      
      Women’s sports ( and girl’s) should be what it say ; for women.
      
      There is no such thing as a “trans” woman . A “trans” woman is a man .
      
      Welcome to 1984 or Animal Farm or whatever favourite dystopian present you please. It’s here.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:25am
      - Jack5
        
        This source says births with ambiguous genitals – true hermaphrodites – are in the range of 0.02% to 0.05%.
        
        I was surprised by the following statement in the explanation about hermaphroditism, written by Alexander Johnson, a biochemist, in his web site on science:
        
        Hermaphrodites can either reproduce by virtue of self-fertilization or they can mate with a male and use the male derived sperm to fertilize their eggs. While virtually the entire progeny that is produced by self-fertilization is hermaphroditic, half of the cross-progeny is male.
        
        Is that be true?
        
        https://scienceoxygen.com/what-percentage-of-humans-are-born-hermaphrodites/
        
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        December 22, 2023 10:56am
      - lastmanstanding
        
        I know. Why not have three categories. Men Women and Others. Solves the problem. The confused can compete against each other.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:53am
      - miltonF
        
        @Jack5
        
        Alexander’s comments are referring to animals that are naturally hermaphrodites, such as snails.
        
        I don’t think it’s possible for human hermaphrodites to produce viable offspring through self fertilisation.
        
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        December 22, 2023 2:05pm
      - rouppe
        
        There is no such thing as a trans woman, unless they have “trans”itioned.
        
        If they still have a penis, no trans has occurred.
        
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        December 22, 2023 6:56pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Mentally ill men, and perverts – the venn diagrams overlap – should not be allowed in girls changing rooms.
        However feminists have brought this upon themselves, so it is amusing to watch them twist and turn like twisty-turny things to deny reality.
        
        If gurlls can do anything, and gender is just a construct…. blokes winning women’s trophies and flicking you with towels in the changing rooms is surely an unequivocally good thing! Just crack open a Bud Light and join in the fun, Sister!
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:23pm
    - zulumonster
      
      Horse riding is an obvious exception at any level. Including Princess Anne at the Olympics and recent (2022?) numbers 1 and 2 in Eventing are a husband and wife from NZ.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:27am
    - G152
      
      Let ‘transgender’ run their own ‘games’
      They could have their own Olimpics
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:28am
      - I remember when
        
        Let ‘transgender’ run their own ‘games.’
        
        So if we say there are 7000 in New Zealand and across all sports.
        Then, we remove those who already compete against men which leaves….
        From that total we divide it by ‘x’ number of sports….
        
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        December 22, 2023 2:10pm
    - leoj
      
      You have fallen for the trap…..
      
      There are only two genders.
      
      Trans means nothing with the underpants off, even after surgery.
      
      This woeful woke agenda, certainly left-oriented, should never have been allowed to progress this far. These people are mentally retarded.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:35am
      - Diogenes
        
        There are not two genders. There are two sexes, apart from those genuine people who have equal male and female genes (and I have a son who falls into that category).
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:08am
      - David Garrett
        
        leoj: Mentally ill mate, not retarded. Two quite different conditions.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:24am
    - Jack5
      
      Women have the edge on men in some types of shooting, such as Olympic air-rifle competitions, and in some equestrian events, such as dressage.
      
      https://www.espn.com/shooting/story/_/id/31828521/10m-air-rifle-sport-tokyo-olympics-where-women-outgun-men
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:41am
      - pdm
        
        Jack5 that is Real (Genuine/Proper) Women though.
        
        Not pretend ones – ie men dressed as women.
        
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        December 22, 2023 11:35am
    - cmm
      
      There are no elite sports without low level sports.
      
      How is a female athlete supposed to get to the top if she does not start at the bottom and rise up through the ranks?
      
      If that ladder is missing rungs at any level then there will be extremely few showing up at the top.
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:42am
- I remember when
  
  The participation of transgender women is, as the article states, far from the biggest issue facing sport.
  Nor are transgender issues the most important issues facing society in general – if important to those involved.
  Sport NZ is really worried about the participation of young New Zealanders in sport, especially after they leave school.
  The article mentions 0.14% of the population being transgender sports women.
  Many of these athletes have participated quietly, largely unknown, for many years without people even being aware of their presence.
  However, like all issues, there are those who use it to promote trangenderism, or themselves.
  Let’s ensure there are no unfair outcomes but leave the amateur, run-of-the-mill, athlete to continue to make up numbers and take part.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:23am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    And you woman showers and change rooms?
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:15am
    - I remember when
      
      If many transgender athletes are already competing it would appear they have already, at least as individuals, largely solved the showers and changing room issues.
      
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      December 22, 2023 1:55pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    0.14% is 7000 people !
    There are fewer than 100 transgender people in the country.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:16am
    - JackRabbit
      
      There are fewer than 100 transgender people in the country.
      
      Agreed. But thousands of sexual degenerates with a cock that can gain entrance to the female changing rooms and showers simply by saying 5 words: “I identify as a women.”
      
      “Fine you can enter, but leave your penis and balls in the bucket by the door. Eigor is handy with a switch blade, he’ll remove them for you.”
      
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      December 22, 2023 1:50pm
      - MCōs
        
        Didn’t Donald Trump gain access to the dressing room at the Miss Teen America competition because he owned the wretched thing!
        
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        December 22, 2023 6:01pm
    - Ghost
      
      According to Statistics New Zealand using data from the 2021 Household Economic Survey, there are approximately 19,400 transgender and non-binary adults (18 and over) in New Zealand. Approximately 5,500 of these identify as male, 5,400 as female, and 8,500 as another gender. The Auckland region had the largest transgender and non-binary population at 6,900, followed by the Wellington region (3,300), Canterbury (2,900), and Waikato (1,200).[10]
      
      Wiki
      
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      December 22, 2023 6:14pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Yup, this is right up there with whatever percentage is supposed to be Gay this week.
      
      Of course Trans now trumps Gay, so gay people – particularly gay women are now being erased too.
      
      Lesbians should be fine dating a chick with a dick, or they are bigots and haters too!
      
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      December 22, 2023 7:27pm
- mandk
  
  There was a story on one of the “news” sites last night that featured a post-pubescent biological male mountain bike rider, who now goes by the name “Kate” and competes against biological females.
  
  A quick search revealed that, when competing as a male, “Kate” finished in the top 10 eight times in 13 races. Presumably a number of the top 10 finishes were in club races, so it can be surmised that “Kate” was averagely good.
  
  However, competing as a female, “Kate” won the elite race twice. On the second occasion, “Kate” beat the second place rider by 17 seconds in a race of just over 3 minutes in duration. “Kate’s” time was about 25 seconds slower than the winner of the men’s elite race. The top three in the men’s race finished within 5 seconds of one another.
  
  In my book, “Kate” is a mediocre male rider, who cheated by competing against real women.
  
  I feel sad for the women she supposedly defeated.
  
  But it’s good to know that the UCI has now banned post-pubescent biological males from competing in the women’s classes in championship events.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:59am
- Pavel
  
  To think that 50 years ago we were putting people on the moon and here we are today debating this rubbish. The west is in serious decline.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:01pm
  - Burtland
    
    arent the americians working on putting a transgender on the moon
    – thats what the whole of this next moon landing is about – equity
    
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    December 22, 2023 6:58pm
    - Ghost
      
      No they aren’t
      
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      December 22, 2023 7:08pm
slightlyrighty

Given that Wellington Roads are now increasingly impassable for those with Motor Vehicles, and now the council is telling us we need to store 140 Lt of water per household member for upcoming water shortages, can we officially declare the Wellington City Council an actual Disaster?
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December 22, 2023 8:09am
- MCōs
  
  When I lived in Wellington there was a water shortage every year
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:24am
  - Prince
    
    I can’t recall a true water shortage in Wgton.
    Sure, we have the occasional ‘odd day only’ hosing restriction to make us feel part of the country, but few people have gardens there, and even fewer water them between cloudy, windy, cool days.
    There are benefits to living in an inhospitable climate.
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:38am
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    Well, you would have thought that at least one of the councils elected over that time would have done something, anything, to address that issue.
    
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    December 22, 2023 2:12pm
- cmm
  
  If you live in the shaky parts of NZ don’t store enough water and food for a week to survive the aftermaths of potential earthquakes then you’re a bloody idiot.
  
  But having to save water to hedge against local government incompetence is quite another matter.
  
  Nobody joins city councils to do the boring stuff that should their bread and butter (pipes, gutters and pot holes). Everyone seems to be there for the grandiose and flamboyant stuff.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:25am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Fortunately in Christchurch there is a well that provides pure water straight from the aquifer. It is about 10 minutes from my home and is where I get all my drinking water. It has been delivering water without a break for more than 100 years.
    
    The good news is that few people seem to know about it 🙂
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/128213716/they-come-from-all-over-christchurch-for-this-mans-water-why
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:59am
    - Charmaine Hawke
      
      There is something similar in Petone. We get all our drinking/cooking water from there and have done for over a year. Well worth the drive for peace of mind.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:13am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “But having to save water to hedge against local government incompetence is quite another matter.”
    
    Few resource provisions are more essential to civil order than is the supply of clean drinking water. Managed, clean drinking water was one of the first things to appear as a societies became civilised and flourished. That this is failing in Wellington is a sign of issues much bigger than a bunch of broken pipes.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:30am
    - cmm
      
      “Few resource provisions are more essential to civil order than is the supply of clean drinking water.”
      
      Exactly the reason to make sure you are not 100% dependent on an incompetent government.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:50am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Yes, but Krazy is making a bigger point. The foundation institutions of a civilised society are being deliberately eroded.
        
        Competence is no longer important.
        
        STEM is now STEAM so that the innumerate and incompetent don’t feel excluded.
        
        Engineering and Medical now have race and gender quotas rather than objective competency based entry standards.
        
        Do you really want your bridge design, your water treatment plant, or your next surgery performed by someone who got in under a quota?
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:32pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    and of course you need to refresh that water regularly, so it could be called water recycling? /sarc
    
    Did it regularly when I was in the shakey Isles.
    
    Every two weeks. Refresh the drinking water 20 litre containers(2)
    
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    December 22, 2023 5:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  140L for every household is a lot of water. Storing water is to stop sea levels rising.
  Imagine if the whole World did this. Climate change solved!
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:29am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Civil Defence recommends storing 3 litres/person/day…and to store at least 3 days worth.
    
    https://getready.govt.nz/en/prepared/household/supplies/storing-water
    
    I suspect many folks in apartments in Wellington will consider storing 150 litres of water to be a bit of an impossible task.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:32am
    - cmm
      
      3 litres a day will barely cover you for drinking water. If you’re in an apartment and can’t dig a hole you probably need a bit more for flushing etc.
      
      150 litres isn’t really that much. A standard bath is about 180 litres.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:49am
    - sirknz
      
      During the y2k saga, I had to explain to my flatmates at the time that we already had 180 litres of water in our hot water cylinder and stocking up on the bottled water was unnecessary should the power go out.
      
      I guess nowadays with the instant hot water heaters in apartments, they may be a little stuffed given that they may not have a bathtub.
      
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      December 22, 2023 1:26pm
      - cmm
        
        Fine in a pinch, but water that has sat in a hot water cylinder for a while can build up dangerous levels of copper.
        
        People have even killed lambs that way by making up milk with warm water from the hot water cylinder.
        
        I’ll keep with my current solution: 8 or so 25 litre containers in the garage which get emptied and refilled every 12 months.
        
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        December 22, 2023 4:31pm
  - Ghost
    
    Not really, and once you’ve been through an event you realise you need to store it. We have two weeks water supply, and a months food supply. We had the big snow event a decade ago that knocked out power, phone etc for some it was for a day for some it was a week, for the unlucky it was several weeks. Then the Christchurch earthquakes.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Do spa pools count? 1200 litres. We use bromine. Chlorine stinks and needs lots of other shit with it for PH.
      
      1 1
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      December 22, 2023 3:10pm
      - Ghost
        
        That’s our go to when water is out, bucket the spa pool water into the toilet.
        
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        December 22, 2023 3:16pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    It’s not 140Lt for every household….
    
    It’s for every household member.
    
    So for my household it’s 560 Lt
    
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    December 22, 2023 12:44pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Just under 5000 litres a month for 4 of us. Mind you the bloody washing machine. It is going now, 3rd time today.
      
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      December 22, 2023 3:12pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      That’s half a tonne. You’d have to hope that the flat’s floor & piles are up to it.
      
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      December 22, 2023 8:42pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Not really. Run a calculator – toilet 8l per flush, washing machine 100l per load, 3 showers 200l- more if teenagers home, dishwasher 50l. Cooking 5-10l per meal if you rinse off utensils and plates. Tea/coffee 1l per jug. Drinking – 1l/pax/day.
    
    I work on the basis that household of 4 runs 600l a day just for normal life.
    
    140l gets you nowhere, no washing, minimal toilet use – which will be broken anyway if the earthquake has come. You will survive for 3 days, you will not enjoy it.
    
    I have 35,000 litres at home, I get nervous every Feb about running out. Most Councils now require new builds off-mains to have 60,000 litres.
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:40pm
- lifesgood
  
  It’s insane. The whole country has been drowning for a full year and they are short of water? FFS!
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    Commies can turn a surplus into a shortage in the snap of a finger.
    
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    December 22, 2023 4:33pm
  - Sacha
    
    I have 2 x 20,000 litre tanks to supply the house and water troughs with filtered rain water, and a pod collecting water off the stable roof.
    For 3 years they have overflowed, and last summer I had pipes put in to carry the overflow along to the main drains-
    Mind you, I was brought up on a farm with rain water only, so I’m always conscious of wastage.
    Clothes were washed when they were dirty, and bathwater was shared (not that I’d want to go back to that!) when the tank levels got low!
    But if I lived in town, I’d have a water tank to collect rain water, that’s for sure!
    
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    December 22, 2023 8:59pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Sligh,
  Have the Einstein Department of the council considered from where the 140 litres of water might be sourced?
  
  The tap!
  
  Dickheads.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:19am
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    That was my first thought as well. Logic is apparently not a strong point in local government.
    
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    December 22, 2023 2:13pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Just stepped outside onto Lambton Quay, and the footpath is awash with water welling up through paving stones. It’s been like this for several days now.
  
  Further, on a 6 minute drive from my home yesterday I drove over/through 5 broken water mains discharging water onto the road.
  
  The only thing more broken that the pipes is the governance model that allows councils to fritter borrowed money on vanity/ideology projects rather than committing to provide the services they have been charged with providing.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:24am
  - cmm
    
    Wellington has the worst water leaks etc in the country with around 47% lost here and there.
    
    It is almost twice the national average (around 25% – typical for most western countries).
    
    Indeed, Wellington is worse that corrupt, broken down shitholes like Johannesburg.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:53am
- Paulus
  
  You voted for the Councillors, and the Mayor.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:31am
  - krazykiwi
    
    ‘You’ is a bit collectivist in this context. Some voted for the current mob but, as appalling as they are, the problem pre-dates them by several decades.
    
    The root of the problem is councils have a right to tax without an binding obligation to supply.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:48am
    - cmm
      
      Sure ‘you’ is collective, but you (singular) choose to live there…
      
      The root of the problem might be that they can tax without supply, but the root of the root of the problem is that people keep turning up for more.
      
      I wonder what the longer term outlook is for Wellington? Will it see people leaving like California?
      
      10 1
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      December 22, 2023 11:05am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        No, no! Please stay in Wellington. We don’t want you socialists up here on the Shore!//
        
        7 1
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        December 22, 2023 11:56am
      - cmm
        
        The Americans etc have a bumpersticker saying
        
        Don’t Californicate Texas (or wherever).
        
        Need something similar for NZ…
        
        “Don’t Welly South Island” doesn’t quite have the same impact though.
        
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        December 22, 2023 4:35pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Except the problem has got a lot worse since the Kaikoura earthquake, and WCC has prioritised zebra crossings, conference and events centres, and the town hall refurbishment, over fixing munted pipes that only permit the city to operate.
      
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      December 22, 2023 7:43pm
  - MCōs
    
    Some of the eligible voters voted and whoever they voted for doesn’t mean a bag of beans seeing as the current situation was caused many years ago.
    
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    December 22, 2023 6:17pm
- Damocles11
  
  “Yes Kent, I would”
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:56am
[email protected]

Please consider supporting the New Zealand volunteer Coast Guard this holiday as they sell raffle tickets to support their efforts to save lives at sea. Many great prizes such as a ute + boat + trailer as first prize, more boats, cruise holidays and cash to be awarded to the lucky winners. Better odds than the lottery.
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December 22, 2023 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I have always been a member. If your boat breaks down you can’t just hitch hike.
  $130 a year is cheap. Luckily I have never had to use them. Let’s keep it that way.
  Accidents happen, Coastguard will help.
  This is the time of the year when people hit the ocean. Unfortunately some don’t check the boat out. Things from outboard servicing (mechanic or yourself) right through to checking flares and life jacket inflation canisters.
  Local VHF for finding out what is going on and Coastguard contact for trip reports.
  Channel 16 for emergency.
  So there’s a plug for you Coastguard. Get into that fundraiser guys.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:46am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Odd that a country surrounded by water depends on volunteers to provide this essential service .
    Same with rescue helicopters .
    However we see spending $25,000,000 a year to convince brown people to take medicine a good idea.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That’s why I say listen to your local VHF Channel. 60, 62, and 64 for me.
      Also flick over to channel 16 now and again. If there is an incident you may be closer than the Coastguard to get people out of the water.
      Amazing the number of people who just can’t swim. I can, even with a rotor cuff tear I will not drown.
      
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      December 22, 2023 12:02pm
      - Paulus
        
        If I remember Channel 16 cut in anytime somebody used it ?
        
        5 0
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        December 22, 2023 1:49pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes I think so Paulus.
        Good question, something I never thought of.
        Common sense says Ch 16 should override any marine VHF channels.
        
        5 1
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        December 22, 2023 3:26pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Used to be a cause I supported, I was an active coastguard volunteer. Then I was mandated off the boat during covid. 6 years wasted. Not a single word of apology later.
  
  No thanks.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You do know who to blame right?
    People still went in the water even though boat ramps were closed by security gorillas.
    Westhaven was a prime example. You will get Covid when out the north of Waiheke.
    Oh, here there was a gorilla down at Island Bay (inner harbour) beach ramp.
    
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    December 22, 2023 3:29pm
Vinicius

RNZ are reporting that “Electronic roll crashing on Election Day could have been avoided”
RNZ obtained information via an OIA request.

• The Electoral Commission has found a crash of its eRoll on Election Day was “ultimately avoidable.

• An incident report by the Electoral Commission found “the degradation in the eRoll application performance on election day, was ultimately avoidable, with clearer and more accurate requirements and thorough load testing that was more representative of the environment and context on the day”.

So, what it boils down to is proper prior load testing wasn’t carried out. Any testing was based on the 2020 volumetric assumptions only. Load testing is IT administration 101.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505325/electronic-roll-crashing-on-election-day-could-have-been-avoided

Cannot wait for a full investigation into the Electoral Commission in 2024 by the Minister of Justice and Justice Select Committee.
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December 22, 2023 8:14am
- RightNow
  
  That article seems to point the finger at Catalyst as being responsible for the eroll application.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:25am
- cmm
  
  Well, duh.
  
  All outages like this could have been avoided.
  
  Unfortunately they are often caused by illiterate programmers who don’t stress test their products.
  
  They test it with a hundred records and two people logged in. What happens when there are a million records and a thousand people logged in?
  
  This is pretty common in the industry.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:29am
  - Mr Nobody NZ
    
    That’s a fairly simplistic viewpoint.
    Testing should occur by:
    The developers,
    QA Team
    And finally customer acceptance team.
    
    The fact is final responsibility lies with the customer and their acceptance team which in this case was the Electoral Commision.
    
    From 20+ years of experience in the It industry I have seen these sort of issues occur when either the customer isn’t prepared to pay or enable the appropriate amount of testing by the Dev and QA team (usually due to lack of budget or poor project management by the customer) or because the customer fails to properly test (and usually for the same reasons).
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:42am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “Testing should occur by:
      The developers,
      QA Team
      And finally customer acceptance team.”
      
      Only partly right. Every line of software should be covered by automated tests* built into the codebase. While it’s normal for these to be functional test, tooling exists to build non-functional tests for responsiveness in differing loads, transaction rates, network latencies. I’ve built heaps of these non-functional tests. They are essential for any modern software development.
      
      * I worked on an application recently where more than 50% of the code was in automated tests, 11,000+ of them. We could test absolutely every corner of the application in 45 minutes meaning our CD pipeline has us never more the 1-hour away from a zero-defect production release.
      
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      December 22, 2023 10:58am
      - Mr Nobody NZ
        
        Completely agree however as the QA team are typically responsible for writing the test scripts, reviewing the results etc automated testing is simply an extension to the QA role not something completely separated from them.
        
        Hence the phrasing to my response.
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:18pm
    - cmm
      
      Testing at a QA level is too late in the piece – it is just confirmation.
      
      The important thing is to test on as tight a loop as possible to ensure that the application is designed for high traffic applications.
      
      I doubt the Electoral Comission really has either the skills or resources to set up or perform high traffic testing.
      
      This is quite a common problem. We often see it in industry. Stuff functions fine “in the lab”, but breaks down when subjected to the real world.
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:10am
Stellaboxer

I’m have realised that I’m a trans financial. That is I’m a rich person who had poverty assigned to me at birth. Any donations towards my transition to riches would be gratefully received. Please help the hate is real.
All donations can be made on 0800 crybaby.
Merry Christmas.
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December 22, 2023 8:27am
- imalwaysright
  
  Stella,
  That’s a valid point you make.
  
  I would be very happy to have the price of surgery and ongoing drug treatment deposited in my account.
  
  It would do wonders for my mental health!
  
  If its all about feelings then what’s the difference .
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:34am
  - Paulus
    
    Easy, buy Southern Cross Medical Insurance instead !
    
    4 2
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    December 22, 2023 1:51pm
Maggie Pie

Those pesky Street-Vendors taking over Franklin Rd sound like a pain in the arse to me.

I heard a City Councillor on ZB earlier promising to have them removed. And according to $tuff, residents are absolutely ‘fuming’.

Although must say newbies to the hood, Waldo Posthummus and his partner Wynyard, don’t sound too purturbed….

WATCH 😀

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/133489125/franklin-rd-residents-fuming-as-street-vendors-try-to-cash-in-on-hard-work
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December 22, 2023 8:28am
- MCōs
  
  Big crowds and street vendors go together like
  A horse and carriage
  
  There again last night l hear
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:45am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    The other similarity Cossie is they also leave shit everywhere 🙁
    
    18 2
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    December 22, 2023 8:50am
  - MCōs
    
    Years ago when there were big anti government protests in the streets of Bangkok the locations were changed/announced at the last minute to thwart the police
    When the crowds arrived at the new locations the street vendors were already there
    
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    December 22, 2023 8:57am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  It’s what we do in New Zealand. When someone attempts to earn an income by providing goods and services, people from all across the political spectrum unite to either stop them or put obstacles in their path.
  
  11 3
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  December 22, 2023 10:07am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hear what you’re saying Nige…. but residents are saying these so called ‘street vendors’ always seem to hail from South or West Auckland. Often using it as an excuse to scope out more affluent areas to target brake-ins.
    And not to mention reports of reprobates caught urinating in peoples gardens. (and worser 🙁 )
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:32am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Ridiculous and bigoted.
      
      4 13
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      December 22, 2023 10:37am
    - Scooter
      
      MP I’m sure the lemon trees aren’t complaining.
      
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      December 22, 2023 12:36pm
  - Paulus
    
    And they declare the Income for Tax purposes !
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:51pm
John Loveridge

Bureaucracy, regulating all the fun out of life since forever.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/12/waiheke-island-s-wharf2wharf-race-cancelled-over-safety-concerns.html

There are other events collapsing under the weight and cost of red tape. For example, the venerable annual Twin Rivers classic car event on Christchurch no longer involves rivers, because council desk jockeys have decided that classic cars parading slowly along the suburban streets of Christchurch are far too dangerous and must be traffic-managed into oblivion.

Twin Rivers has raised large sums of money for Rotary for decades. But now, after paying for all the traffic management and risk analysis reports, there is no money left for Rotary.
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December 22, 2023 8:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Waiheke. This shit from Auckland Transport has to stop. Total control is what they want. Non-qualified volunteers will be fined? So AT want safety but does not want help.
  It has to be their way.
  Time for the Govt to come down hard on Councils. AT will say they are not part of the Council, same for Watercare. They ARE, otherwise why is AT on the Auckland Council website?
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:06am
- kowtow
  
  Not just “events” , agriculture, by all accounts was crashing under the weight of regulation .
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:29am
Notsofast

NZME must maintain the corrupting rainbow tick. Honest reporting is not possible, and Jaime looks in the dire 18 to 25 year female age group who can’t be reached by adults. Check the work of Wesley Yang and others. Competitive sport is a gateway to corporate success for American women, and no doubt the same is true here. The chilling effect of unfairness is causing some young women to abandon their sports.
Unfairness for trans youth began with the lies they were told they could change sex. Let New Zealand explore the root cause and reverse the dire policies of a captured Parliament.
A good place to start is Gender a wider lens, regarded as the truest and most comprehensive podcast series with Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad. O’Malley issued a warning to New Zealand we were enacting policies that would lead to the sterilization of gay youth. It is happening.
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December 22, 2023 8:33am
Swifty

Yesterday afternoon on RNZ’s The Panel, Sue Bradford described the National Coalition’s tenure to date and policy intentions as a ‘Blitzkreig’. She used the term at least twice that I heard and when Wallace Chapman questioned her about it she said she had considered its use at length and decided it was an accurate and appropriate term to use – particularly as it relates to the Coalition’s intentions re Maori.

If that is what she thinks about National’s plans – then I wonder what label she would put on Labour’s ACTUAL performance over the last six years, especially for Maori.

During the last six years Maori have undergone massive house price and rent increases, the greatest inflation levels we’ve seen in 30-40 years, a great decline in school attendance and educational results, all manner of social service and medical wait lists exploding, the lowest growth in the developed world, child immunisation rates falling through the floor – the list just goes on and on.

Good god, what would Sue Bradford label that? I presume she would say that’s all lovey dovey, that things were just about to turn a corner, that with a little more time and a little more money things would have come right.

This just nearly encapsulates for me why I find the Left incoherent and I struggle to believe a single word they say. That Bradford would damn the Coalition for their intentions while staying silent on the massive damage caused under and by Labour and the Greens just shouts partisan hackery to me – and it robs Bradford of any credibility.

Does the woman think we’re stupid? That we can’t see what damage Labour and the Greens wrought? Does she not think it a good thing to stop the Labour policies which created this harm? And try other things?

I find it just terribly disappointing that Chapman didn’t get stuck into her more about this – actually asking her to defend Labour and the Green’s terrible performance.

God, the whole thing just makes my brain hurt.
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December 22, 2023 8:34am
- Swifty
  
  Sorry, that’s house not hide.
  
  [Mod – fixed]
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:43am
  - Swifty
    
    Many thanks.
    
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    December 22, 2023 9:49am
- Paulus
  
  I am of the view that we mere males are considered stupid by the all knowing ladies in all aspects of the media.
  Remember it’s all our fault, so don’t forget it.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:36am
Chuck Bird

Good to see a judge with common sense. I hope this misfit has to pay cost.

Student’s defamation case against academic accused of being ‘transphobic bigot’ thrown out by judge

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/students-defamation-case-against-academic-accused-of-being-transphobic-bigot-thrown-out-by-judge/ILUUYLDYMZEEZEXTJDPVSEMWF4/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1703128532
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December 22, 2023 8:37am
- David Garrett
  
  Merry Christmas Chuck: While I agree the result is sound and refreshing, there was this bit:
  
  “It is true that at the beginning of the file note [the student] is referred to on two occasions by [incorrect] pronouns – although thereafter is referred to by gender-neutral plural pronouns.
  
  There are – or should be only three different sets of pronouns: he/his, she/hers and they/theirs…the last reserved for more than one person only.
  
  All this “appropriate pronouns” shit is nothing more than. at best, catering to a stupid fad, or at worst, pandering to the mentally ill or at least mentally disturbed.
  
  33 1
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  December 22, 2023 9:47am
  - rangitoto
    
    I insist on being referred to as his/her/their ultimate supremacy. I don’t mind which.
    
    7 1
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    December 22, 2023 10:35am
    - Diogenes
      
      My preferred pronouns are “me” and “my”. My wife has settled on “Your Majesty”. As she has several ancestors who wore the crown in England, she has a claim of sorts.
      
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      December 22, 2023 11:17am
    - JJ56
      
      me/mine
      
      5 0
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      December 22, 2023 1:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I just use one pronoun. It starts with “F” and is used as a verb.
    
    5 1
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    December 22, 2023 12:09pm
    - Jethrod
      
      She/It
      
      1 0
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      December 22, 2023 7:05pm
k1w1

Nowhere else to whinge so it may as well be here. Starting to see articles talking about the chances of wet weather for Xmas day, but has anyone looked at the forecast? Xmas is one thing, but it’s to be followed by at least 6-7 days of constant heavy rain, for those heading north at least. Last year was a complete wash out for camping. Looks like a repeat. FFS!
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December 22, 2023 8:41am
- kevn
  
  k1w1.. The children will be busy on screens so no prob?
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Monday does not look great on http://www.windy.com
  Well that means no rotisserie lamb leg on the BBQ unless I use an umbrella. No ham this year, too expensive.
  Long as I have my lamb and JD I will be fine.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:29am
  - Diogenes
    
    Christchurch wind makes barbequeing a tricky proposition. So I move the barbie into the garage, which gives good protection no matter what the weather.
    
    6 0
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    December 22, 2023 11:19am
- Humai
  
  Unfortunately, very similar conditions to last January – a stationary “blocking” high pressure system to the east and an airflow from the tropics, perfectly aligned with the north of the North Island, bringing interminable northeast winds, humidity and rain.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:50pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Ah yes, an “atypical El Nino”
  
  ie., whatever happens is what was predicted.
  
  Here was me expected drought, heatwave and a good summer….
  
  Just look at Australia though – cyclone coming down through Queensland, will get to NZ 5 days later. Regular as clockwork.
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:05pm
Clyde

Watched a bit of Parliament live stream yesterday and there were a couple of repealing Bills passed. It was noticeable that the Racist Party were not present in the House at all, and as far as I could tell their vote hadn’t been passed on to anyone else. So, elected to represent, but failed to even show up. Probably back home by then. Getting fitted for some new sneakers and another cowboy hat?
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December 22, 2023 8:50am
- peterwn
  
  Wellington City Council seems to have a similar issue. Apparently the two Iwi appointees often miss meetings and some committee meetings could not proceed because of lack of quorum because Iwi appointees were absent. They are apparently paid a higher stipend than ordinary councillors. This is what I heard from a speech given by a councillor who is harassed, ignored and suffered threats of legal action by the majority.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:41am
  - kowtow
    
    This is literally the democratic principle of the rule of law no longer applying in NZ .
    
    These people are not accountable to anybody .But get paid by ratepayers who have no say in their appointments !
    
    17 1
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    December 22, 2023 10:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Special people are paid more? There is a word for that.
    Imagine the future if Co-Governance ever gets off the ground. Appointed Councilors will have to be paid above the rest.
    
    8 1
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    December 22, 2023 12:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Christmas Party at the Marae bro.//
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:30am
lastmanstanding

You gotta laugh. Rather than finding a viable candidate who can debate the issues the Dems are going after Trump through the partisan Courts. IMHO the SC will overturn the decisions further increasing Trumps support.
Anything positive Trump did was credited to Barry before Trump or Biden after Trump. The TDS lot wont admit Trump accomplished anything positive in his 4 years. They are fixated on the person rather than the policies. Personally I dont like the guy but as a mature adult that doesnt mean I dont acknowledge he did some good stuff like reducing unemployment especially amongst young AAs bringing industry and business back to the US and his foreign policy.
Still I know I am in a very small minority and the downtickers will be imploding at this point. Grow up you lot wipe the scales from your eyes.
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December 22, 2023 8:54am
- Inandout
  
  last, that is why the Epstein visitor list is being delayed because I would imagine a fair few US ‘leaders’ are on it. Get Trump before the shit hits the fan.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:01am
  - Paulus
    
    Don’t worry Hilary will stop it – no, her husband Bill did not take 18 flights with Epstein – (whom committed suicide in a NY prison ). – yea !
    to a private Caribbean Island.
    
    8 1
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    December 22, 2023 10:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      And that is no joke. Hillary has been to the island as well. I think she likes little girls.
      Sexual deviants the lot of them. On the list will be financiers, bankers, politicians of course, accountants, lawyers, large manufacturing company owners, high level doctors and surgeons, high level sports people. A complete racket.
      Hillary said “If I go down, I will take half of DC with me.” When she throws out a warning like that people tend to take notice.
      
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      December 22, 2023 12:21pm
      - MCōs
        
        Apart from anything else Hillary did not say “If I go down, I will take half of DC with me.” as I pointed out to you yesterday
        
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        December 22, 2023 1:34pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes she did MCos. But not reported on CNN, MSNBC or TV1 news, which is sad. I always thought TV! news was the best in the World.
        Also, depending on who you are the internet thingy can be scrubbed right?
        I saw it in an interview and it was not an impersonator taking the piss.
        
        5 2
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        December 22, 2023 3:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        Then provide evidence because no one has ever been able to. This is another social media meme you’ve been fooled by
        
        2 2
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        December 22, 2023 4:07pm
      - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
        
        Stephen Hawking went to Epstein’s Island twice as well. For the view?
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2023 7:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dems are fighting to keep their decades of corruption. The Don is going to take that away. Crooked Hillary with her DNC , Pelosi and her insider trading, Joe and the whole Biden family, too many to name.
  Trump is going to take away their binky. Can’t wait for the thermonuclear meltdowns – entertaining.
  Here’s a classic after Ruth Bader Ginsburg dies. Yep, this is how crazy the crazies are!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDYLZuR5NU0
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:46am
- Paulus
  
  Sadly the USA increases its place as one of the most corrupt countries in the world.
  Bur remember the USA is always right, even if they change laws to make sure of it.
  Worked a few years, long time ago, with US financial service conglomerates overseas, in another jurisdiction, and as Shareholders they made sure that they came first, even if logic was not there best interest – it was what others would think that mattered.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:48am
- virtualmark
  
  The Colorado court case, where they’ve decided Trump is ineligible to stand for President, was brought by … Republicans.
  
  Jack Smith’s list of witnesses he’s going to call in the DC election fraud/insurrection trial is nearly all … Republicans.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:46pm
  - Keith White
    
    RINOs.
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:43pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Everyone knows a true Republican only needs one core principle: undying fealty to Trump.
      
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      December 22, 2023 1:52pm
  - ProtectBabiesFromPredators
    
    What is the Legal point of your comment?
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

World History – As it Really Happened:
Humans existed as members of small bands of nomadic
hunter/gatherers.
They lived on deer in the bush ranges during the summer & would
go to the coast to fish & gather shellfish in winter.
The two most important events in all of history were the invention
of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented
to get man to the beer.
These were the foundation of modern civilization & together
were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct
subgroups: the Left & the Right.
Once beer was discovered it required grain & that was the
beginning of agriculture.
Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet,
so while our early human ancestors were sitting around waiting
for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery.
That’s how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days hunting animals to B-B-Q
at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning
of what is known as “the Right.”
Other men who were weaker & less skilled at hunting learned
to live off the National voters by showing up for the nightly
B-B-Q’s & doing the sewing, fetching & hair dressing.
This was the beginning of the Labour Party.
Some of these socialist men eventually evolved into women.
The rest became known as ‘girliemen.’
Some noteworthy socialist achievements include the domestication
of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs & the
concept of Labour/Green voting to decide how to divide the meat
& beer that the Right provided.
Modern socialists like imported beer (with lime added) but
most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat
raw fish but like their beef well done.
Sushi, tofu,& French food are standard leftie fare.
(Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of the left voting
women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most
social workers, teachers, journalists, race relations experts, group therapists and prostitutes are socialists.)
National voters drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still
provide for their women. The Right are deer stalkers,
farmers, forestry workers, builders, firemen,
medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives,
athletes, strippers, SAS soldiers & generally anyone who
works productively. National voters who own companies hire other right-wingers who want to work for a living.
Socialists produce little or zilch. They like to “govern”
the producers and decide what to do with the production. They creep in after the hard yakka’s done & create a business of trying
to get MORE for nothing.
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December 22, 2023 9:07am
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O: Comment of the day so far sir!
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was in Facebook Memories from 7 years ago!
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    3 downticks. That means 3 socialists are here today.
    Strange, I thought there would be many more.
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:08pm
- mogg
  
  According to Ronald Blythe’s very well researched book ‘’Akenfield’, during the Summer months every English farm worker was granted the right to 17 pints of beer per day, it had to be consumed during working hours and could not be taken home.
  The beer was brewed on the farms, the recipe is also included.
  
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  December 22, 2023 3:43pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Sounds like NZ Breweries and DB Breweries in the 70’s. Ale available morning and afternoon “Tea” and LUNCHTIME.
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:10pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Much of it was “small Ale” though- quite low alcohol from the second batch using the same ingredients.
    
    Beer was safe to drink, water wasn’t. So peasants cared a lot about beer. The alcohol kills the bugs.
    
    Our forebears burned off 5,000 calories a day doing physical labour – and most of the 17pints of been was simply fluid replacement – until after work when you could kick back.
    
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    December 22, 2023 8:11pm
Rusty

@Lastman..

You get an uptick from me. It seems every time a new attack from the fake establishment (dems/woke/left) on Donald Trump happens his ratings go up and Bidens down.

Their hatred for Trump is obscene. These fools take no notice on what the American public thinks of it all.
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December 22, 2023 9:08am
- kevn
  
  Rusty… See how deranged the TDS really are…
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjYOddl-CCA
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:31am
  - Rusty
    
    @kevn
    
    Thanks for the link. These people are unbelievable.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:06am
    - kevn
      
      Rusty… Some folk have downticked that link. How odd, TDS behaviour.
      
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      December 22, 2023 6:00pm
      - Rusty
        
        @kevn
        
        I noticed how sad!
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:06pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  El gato malo does an interesting blog post on the subject.
  
  for me, the bottom line seems to be:
  
  this idea is pretty fanciful upon its face and reeks more of stunt than substance. but i also keep catching a whiff of deep game subterfuge.
  
  whatever one thinks of trump (and i am no fan as i have often made plain) this idea that somehow jan 6 was “an insurrection” much less one led by donnie is an absurdity.
  
  The usual high quality read.
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-deep-game-co-strikes-trump-off
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:07am
  - virtualmark
    
    Trump wins every case on Fox (and with the bad cat) but he loses every case in courtrooms. That’s because in courtrooms facts, truth and the law matter, and people are under oath.
    
    So maybe you should read the actual Colorado State Court decision https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/02nd_Judicial_District/Denver_District_Court/11_17_2023%20Final%20Order.pdf
    
    And the Colorado Supreme Court decision https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf
    
    The State Court spent a lot of time considering whether January 6 was an insurrection, and to what extent Trump engaged in it. Paras 225 to 298 at least are relevant. The Supreme Court observed that “The court found by clear and convincing evidence that President Trump engaged in insurrection as those terms are used in Section Three”.
    
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    December 22, 2023 12:59pm
    - sirknz
      
      Where’s his federal level conviction for insurrection?
      
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      December 22, 2023 4:10pm
      - virtualmark
        
        This is a civil matter, not a criminal one.
        
        There is broad legal consensus that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment doesn’t require a criminal conviction for a crime of insurrection to apply. Of the seven historical precedents of people being disqualified under this amendment none of them were charged under the criminal ‘rebellion or insurrection’ statute (18 U.S.C. § 2383) or its predecessors.
        
        Look, the State Court held a week of hearings on this. Trump was represented there. If you think there’s some straightforward reason why this judgement is wrong then you have to ask yourself why didn’t Trump’s lawyers make those arguments in court? Or on appeal? Answer: Because the arguments you think should be right are actually bogus.
        
        As I said earlier … Trump wins every case in the MAGA media, but loses every case in court. That’s because MAGA media doesn’t care about facts or logic, just feelz.
        
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        December 22, 2023 4:31pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        One of America’s more famous lawyers, Alan Dershowitz can hardly be called a conservative, let alone a MAGA supporter, after his voting for Obama and company (although he’s recently denounced Obama over his attitudes towards Israel) and support for Democrats for decades as he’s taught and practiced law. And so:
        
        “It is absurd….The idea that the Fourteenth Amendment was supposed to substitute for the impeachment provision, carefully drafted by the Framers, is wrong.”
        …
        “If you want to impeach a president, if you want to make him not be able to run in the future, there’s a provision that requires a two-thirds vote in the Senate. But the idea that the Framers of the Fourteenth Amendment intended to circumvent that carefully drawn provision, and simply allow any state to make up grounds denying him the right to be on the ballot, undercuts democracy.”
        
        Dershowitz then quoted from the Constitutional amendment directly. “The Fourteenth Amendment itself is very clear. It says in Section 5, ‘The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.’ The Congress. That’s the United States Congress,” he emphasized. “There’s no provision in the Fourteenth Amendment for any state, or certainly any state court, to interfere with the right to vote by its citizens. So this is a terrible, terrible decision.”
        
        It’s interesting that the TDS crowd really do think they won’t burn down institutions in their pursuit of Trump by any means necessary, that the voters, and even Democrats like Dershowitz, will just blindly continue to support the FBI, DOJ etc.
        
        With the upcoming release of things like that stupid “Civil War” movie I’m starting to wonder if that’s what the US Left wants to happen?
        
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        December 22, 2023 5:18pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Tom, Dershowitz has been wrong on every Trump-related case in the last 7 years. So you’d have to suspect he may be wrong here too.
        
        Maybe he should be spending his time worrying about the Epstein disclosures coming in the next week.
        
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        December 22, 2023 5:52pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Chuckle:
    
    “Therefore, to maintain the status quo pending any review by the U.S. Supreme Court, we stay our ruling until January 4, 2024 (the day before the Secretary’s deadline to certify the content of the presidential primary ballot). If review is sought in the Supreme Court before the stay expires on January 4, 2024, then the stay shall remain in place, and the Secretary will continue to be required to include President Trump’s name on the 2024 presidential primary ballot, until the receipt of any order or mandate from the Supreme Court.”
    ….
    Staying decisions until an appeal is filed is often done when it’s clear it will be appealed, but this majority opinion put on hold its Trump-doesn’t-qualify till the end of time, basically.
    
    Hey folks, “don’t take us seriously” (wink). It’s red meat for the Democrat base and trying to set an example to the 17 other states where this stunt is being pulled. It’s also testing the waters because if SCOTUS boots this then they can try something else.
    
    I must admit that I’m fascinated by the possibility that a court can declare you guilty of something for which you were not charged. It should be noted that the actual trial about Trump and the Jan 6, 2021 riot, being run by Democrat attack dog Jack Smith in Washington D.C., 2000 miles away, doesn’t include charges of insurrection or sedition – and that’s despite having a jury from a voter pool that went for Biden some 92% which makes Trump’s conviction certain.
    
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    December 22, 2023 4:40pm
    - Mike
      
      Stayed ‘until the end of time’ or stayed for 2 weeks?
      
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      December 22, 2023 5:00pm
    - virtualmark
      
      What?
      
      The Colorado Supreme Court pragmatically decided that this case was inevitably going to be appealed to the US Supreme Court, and so included a stay to allow for that appeal to be lodged. That’s just sensible lawyering.
      
      And read the State Court decision. They go into depth on the question of whether Jan 6 was an insurrection, and whether they need any other convictions. Both the State Court and Supreme Court decisions read as though they are written for the US Supreme Court rather than for the plaintiffs. It looks like everyone is being very careful here.
      
      Or read Baude & Paulsen (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4532751) or Luttig & Tribe (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/). Both sets of writers address the “do we need a criminal conviction” question and both lay out why you don’t. And, as I said in an earlier post, none of the previous 14th Amendment disqualifications rested on a criminal conviction for insurrection.
      
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      December 22, 2023 5:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Let the attacks continue. Dam good campaign advertising.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:49am
- Paulus
  
  Suggested that Trump’s plane will have serious malfunction as the Officials will say, at the inquest.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:54am
  - MCōs
    
    Inasmuch as God chose him to lead America to the promised land he’s hardly going to let him be killed in any sort of accident and let Allah or some other deity get the upper hand!
    
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    December 22, 2023 2:20pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sensible comment, but you missed the //
      
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      December 22, 2023 4:15pm
Maggie Pie

I see where the ‘School Lunches’ program is being shut down. Good job!
The food was ‘hideous’ by all accounts.
People saying over 10,000 were being chucked out every day 🙁

And what happened to parents making it for their own kids anyway?
Or giving them 20 bucks to get something 0n their way to school.

Talk about a socialist cradle-to-the-grave mentality.
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December 22, 2023 9:19am
- Benedict Yu
  
  $20 for a school lunch?
  
  New Zealand (and Australia) are out of line globally in the business of school lunches. Most of the USA, nearly all of Europe, and certainly Taiwan all provide comprehensive school lunches. It would be inconceivable for a child in Taiwan to take lunch to school in a paper bag.
  
  Anyway, the programme here is not being shut down. It is just one of the fiscal cliffs to be resolved.
  
  The big mistake in New Zealand was to give the programme to the Ministry of Education to run 🙁
  
  .. and of course they have called it the “Ka Ora, Ka Ako | Healthy School Lunches Programme”
  
  The Ministry provides schools with an “approved list of suppliers”.
  
  It is also good to know that the school lunches programme is consistent with the Treaty and that a consulting firm was appointed to make sure.
  
  “Key outcomes of this evaluation include findings that Ka Ora, Ka Ako effectively contributes to the hauora and wellbeing of ākonga Māori and that the iwi and hapū model gives substantial effect to a Te Tiriti o Waitangi based way of working.”
  
  https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/overall-strategies-and-policies/wellbeing-in-education/free-and-healthy-school-lunches/
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:48am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What a weak, wet, pathetic woke joke the public service has become.
    
    24 4
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    December 22, 2023 10:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    $20 for smoked salmon and caviar in a croissant, nothing less is acceptable.
    
    8 2
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    December 22, 2023 10:53am
  - sirknz
    
    Does this ‘hapu & iwi model’ extend to Compass Group who are making a bunch of these meals?
    
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    December 22, 2023 4:14pm
- Paulus
  
  What about the Teachers who ensured that what was delivered was fully used.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:54am
Vinicius

Winston Peters Adjournment debate speech yesterday. Very entertaining. I still take Peters with a grain of salt, but he is the best debater in the current Parliament.

Many in the House now read speeches out Peters like good debaters from the past doesn’t do this.

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=237660
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December 22, 2023 9:22am
- Inandout
  
  Vin, Winnie is around the same age as Biden. Age is not relevant, mental agility is.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:50am
- gorse
  
  I will be the first to admit that I couldn’t understand why people were voting NZ First. I genuinely thought Winston would be a problem. I now stand before you all and say I was wrong. He has impressed me immensely in the House. Shane Jones too is stepping up as a valuable member of Government. I wish them all well over the break, come back refreshed and get on with the work they have begun.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:13am
  - David Garrett
    
    gorse: “A new broom sweeps clean” as they say…the Great Charlatan has only been part of the government for five minutes…let’s see what he’s like in a year or 18 months; that’s usually about the time he gets tired of working and engineers a collapse of the government which rashly included him.
    
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    December 22, 2023 11:31am
  - ISeeRed
    
    You must be 15 and not 50 to have not seen Peters do the same schtick and pull the same stunts for literally decades.
    
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    December 22, 2023 2:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He loves it. In his element.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:58am
- MCōs
  
  If you take him with a grain of salt it doesn’t say much for his debating skills
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:06am
  - Vinicius
    
    “If you ever injected truth into politics you have no politics.”
    – Will Rogers
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:38pm
- Damocles11
  
  He’s right that there are some ‘Maori’ – with plenty of European ancestry – who are now performing outsized cosplay antics as they try to be ‘more Maori than any Maori who came before them’. Enormous greenstone pendants, elaborate facial tattooing, ornate head-dresses, overblown theatrics…..as some have mentioned previously, there is some sort of Maori steampunk movement underway, with Victorian era costuming combined with patented Maori symbolism. A real ‘return to pre-colonisation’ Maori dress sense would involve flax skirts and bare torso’s, but this is a ‘kitsch’ movement – there is nothing authentic about it.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:11pm
Benedict Yu

Predictable 🙁 The media rolls out “experts” who explain why the Government is wrong to reverse speed limits reductions.

““Any call for increased speed limits, directly means they’re asking for more people to be killed or seriously injured in road crashes, push up costs, and push up people going into the hospital system at enormous costs,” Cliff said.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301030871/road-safety-experts-criticise-plan-to-undo-speed-limit-reductions

The speed limit on roads with “possible frontal impacts between cars” should be 70 kmh. That means every highway in New Zealand except for motorways or highways with median barriers.

More experts who cannot accept the result of an election.
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December 22, 2023 9:29am
- David Garrett
  
  Bene: the powers that be have an obsession with speed; for them, it is if not the only, then very much the primary cause of all crashes.
  
  I remember several years ago at the beginning of the summer it was announced that the usual 4 or 5kph “tolerance” was to be suspended “in the interests of road safety”.
  
  The road toll that summer increased. Zero comment from the “experts”.
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:57am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It was about 8 years ago. I got a speed camera ticket on Christmas Day for doing 85 kmh in an 80 kmh zone.
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:02am
  - kowtow
    
    For what it’s worth I believe they do it out of what I’ll call lazy enforcement .
    
    They have machines that can easily measure speed and therefor not much slogging effort actually goes into detecting /proving the offence .Other than the radar.Same with alcohol.
    
    How many prosecutions have there been when the driver was unfit due to tiredness ?
    If they had a machine that could measure impairedness due to tiredness , by Golly Plod would be plugging that as a major cause of accidents …………
    
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    December 22, 2023 10:40am
- ClanMcleod
  
  More ‘experts’ with computer models to come up with ever more ludicrous predictions.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:10am
- NothingLeft
  
  road toll in 2013 was 250 with far more sections of 100km/hr road and far less extreme policing of speed.
  
  It was 378 up 50% on the 2013 under Labours omnishambolic govt. Focus on speed is clearly wrong-headed. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result – as the monomaniacal speed policing is proving. The police own a lot of hammers (speed cameras etc and ability to fine) so everything is a nail.
  
  Lets see demographics on car crashes. I’ll bet it is high fraction of poor, stupid and careless of law, and probably a large fraction distracted by phones.
  
  Greatly slowed traffic over last decade means passing more cars going opposite direction on every trip – increased opportunity for lethal head on crashes by distracted drivers. Speeding up might actually reduce deaths
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:24am
  - David Garrett
    
    Nothing left: I suspect an in depth analysis would show the main causes – not necessarily in this order – as: Alcohol intoxication over 400mcg (the old limit) particularly among the under 30’s; inattention of various kinds; and cell phone use, particularly texting, which I still notice. (Person clearly looking down at their lap where lies the phone, rather than looking at what’s in front of/around them).
    
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    December 22, 2023 11:35am
    - cmm
      
      https://figure.nz/chart/WKssPR8hbahvO8Cx-uRVBYHXQjMLE18H4
      
      This is for deaths which will possibly be different to accidents.
      Also, in many cases multiple boxes might be ticked (eg. drunk AND too fast).
      
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      December 22, 2023 2:28pm
- G152
  
  Accidents are the result of inattention.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:37am
  - David Garrett
    
    G152: the last accident I had – about 20 years ago – was me running up the arse of the car in front…I had been day dreaming rather than concentrating on the tail-back building in front of me.
    
    I would be interested in others’ comments on the circumstances of their last – or only – accident.
    
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    December 22, 2023 11:37am
    - sungsamning
      
      Me too, in the late 80s.
      
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      December 22, 2023 3:43pm
  - Humai
    
    I’ve always thought that inattention in combination with insufficient following distance is a leading cause of motorway accidents at least.
    
    I’ve seen a couple unfold in front of me that were caused by an initial irregular lane change, merge or slow-down exacerbated by someone behind being either too close or distracted until too late to perform a corrective maneuver.
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:14pm
- jedmo
  
  The article on it’s face seems deceitful; Stuff, undoubtedly deliberately; provides no info, on who these 3 moaners are. So can virtually take it as read, they are left activists or have obvious biases, which Stuff is actively hiding from it’s readers.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:41am
- Paulus
  
  Their employment depends upon their not agreeing with the Government but the Opposition Media Party.
  
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  December 22, 2023 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Some of these ‘experts’ will be worried about their jobs.
  Drain the swamp.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:04am
- Colinxy
  
  Unravelling media-speak:
  
  Expert: anyone that agrees with the media without any need for expertise, knowledge or experience.
  
  Controversial: anyone who disagrees with the media despite his expertise, knowledge and experience.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:38am
  - David Garrett
    
    Colinxy: I have had recent experience with various media referring to the controversial three strikes law (of course all the leftie “journos” hate it)
    
    I have argued that a law that around 80% of voters support – including 48% of Green voters according to a poll done by our host a few years ago – can hardly fairly be called “controversial” – other perhaps than inside the Labour caucus room…but then 64% IIRC of Labour voters also supported it.
    
    I didn’t manage to convince any of said journos.
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:18pm
    - Colinxy
      
      Several years ago my council stated strongly that there was support for a cycle way. Digging into their own report (no actual numbers given, just percentages), the highest level of support for it was 23% – from the dataset of the people who didn’t live anywhere near it.
      
      I argued with them that if that’s their support determination, the National Party should be governing by themselves (this was shortly after the 2020 election). They didn’t like that analogy and it proved a worthless strategy (they still wasted public money on it).
      
      The reason for mentioning it is that they don’t care what the percentages are. In your case more than 0% opposed it and that’s good enough for them.
      
      I have ever since that engagement been suspicious of any claims of support (or its opposite) from “authority”; they’ll twist anything and everything to suit their narrative.
      
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      December 22, 2023 1:47pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  And look at the “experts”.
  
  Funny how they always talk about the costs, but never the benefits of more efficient transport flow…
  
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  December 22, 2023 8:20pm
Maggie Pie

Thank goodness we still have some real Investigative Journalists with integrity.

Chris Lynch is absolutely oarsum!

https://chrislynchmedia.com/news-items/opinion-human-rights-commissions-credibility-damaged
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December 22, 2023 10:02am
Chuck Bird

FYI

10 Inconvenient Truths about Climate Change & Green Energy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrMiYHQ6NjI
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December 22, 2023 10:10am
- gravedodger
  
  Hi Chuck I wonder if that video was included in Ms Maureen Pugh’s re-education package as ordered by Mr Luxon for daring to comply with her constituents requests for information.
  OTOH maybe Mr Luxon needs to have it on replay on his office TV monitor.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:30am
krazykiwi

Aporia Magazine: The Baby Boom – Causes, consequences and implications. Some interesting demographic history and trends.
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December 22, 2023 10:43am
Gulag1917

The Grayzone’s Max Blumenthal discusses his investigation into Israeli military orders to shell the homes of Israeli civilians and helicopter attacks on civilian cars and Israeli bases as they fought to dislodge Palestinian militants from the country’s south on October 7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqmADgbEJI&t=188s&ab_channel=TheGrayzone
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December 22, 2023 10:51am
- mandk
  
  All injuries and deaths in Gaza are entirely the responsibility of Hamas.
  
  None of them would have occurred, if Hamas had not invaded Israel on 7 October and gleefully killed as many Israeli civilians as they could.
  
  I stand with Israel.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:04am
  - Gulag1917
    
    Israel has lost the hearts and minds war, something the British would try and avoid.
    
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    December 22, 2023 11:59am
- All_on_Red
  
  This conspiracy theory by Blumenthal has been discredited with Geo location information from the Helicopters.
  Is Max still writing for RT and Sputnik?
  He seems very pro Russian
  ‘The website, initially founded as The Grayzone Project,[24] was affiliated with AlterNet before becoming independent in early 2018.[4] It is known for its critical coverage of the US and its foreign policy,[1] misleading reporting,[25][26] and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes.[4][21][27][28] The Grayzone has downplayed or denied the Chinese government’s human rights abuses against Uyghurs,[32] published conspiracy theories about Venezuela, Xinjiang, Syria, and other regions,[33][34] and published pro-Russian propaganda during the Russian invasion of Ukraine.[31]
  
  Grayzone writers such as Blumenthal and Aaron Maté acted as briefers on behalf of the Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations at UN meetings organised by Russia.[35][36][37][38]’
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grayzone
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:43am
lifesgood

That Mike Lee was ghastly on Newstalk this morning. When asked about the obese slobs lying all over the footpath in Queens St he very, very quickly deflected back to talking about the Franklin Rd traders and simply ignored the question. It is more than high time these low lives were cleaned off Queen St. It is an embarrassment for our city and it’s not as if there is no help available to them.
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December 22, 2023 10:53am
- NothingLeft
  
  Stick persistent homeless addicts in a remote camp, somewhere pleasant – like far north. Give them all the drugs they want for free. Can’t leave until or unless they are off the drugs for a couple of months. No medical treatment for overdoses or other drug-created health problems, but provide all the help we can if they stop using drugs.
  
  They sort themselves out or they eventually die as a result of their self-destructive choices, but they don’t impose their repulsive lifestyle choices and shitty dissipative behaviour on the general public any more.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:38am
  - MCōs
    
    “Give them all the drugs they want for free. Can’t leave until or unless they are off the drugs for a couple of months.”
    
    That should do the trick, said nobody ever.
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:23pm
Paulus

From what I see, as more obvious than ever, Obesity will be the biggest curse, and costs for future generations.
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December 22, 2023 10:58am
- Inandout
  
  Paulus, the future for obese people is dismal, even with the huge amounts of medication they overwhelm our health system with.
  https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/weight-management/adult-overweight-obesity/health-risks
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:54pm
  - Paulus
    
    Why are there so many Obese people, in particular children can be seen on the streets?
    
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    December 22, 2023 1:58pm
Hugh Jarse

Are there any “experts” out there that support the government position on policy or is everyone against the government policy changes ?. It seems the only “experts” the media can find are those against this governments policy changes.

Unusual as most of the non “expert” public seem very happy with the changes and did in fact vote for those changes through voting in the general election.
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December 22, 2023 11:15am
- NothingLeft
  
  Most of the ‘experts’ appear to be taxpayer supported, but work diligently against the taxpayers expressed interests/preferences.
  
  That should be remedied. The far left 80-90% of Academia needs to go.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:50am
- kowtow
  
  There’ll be plenty , but the media pardy as always will be acting as gatekeeper , ensuring only their own agenda is reported , for the most part.
  
  That’s why certain blogs are morereliable for news and opinion than the legacy , bought and paid for , msm.
  
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  December 22, 2023 11:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Call this whatever you want, but it is extortion!

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/if-ever-there-was-a-story-to-illustrate-where-we-are-headed-in-new-zealand-under-maori-rule-this-is-it/?
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December 22, 2023 11:16am
Ezekial231

DG,
You may need to explain that for the millennials and post CMT, Cadet Corp generations who don’t know one end of a Lee Enfield from the other.
McK
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December 22, 2023 11:52am
Ghost

Sad that this is needed, but long overdue

The government is boosting security in emergency departments over the summer, employing an extra 200 people to help keep our hospitals safe, officials say.

Health Minister Dr Shane Reti made an announcement regarding the $5.7 million boost, at Auckland City Hospital on Friday morning.

Article
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December 22, 2023 12:11pm
- kevn
  
  Dr Reti doing stuff. He is only just beginning.
  
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  December 22, 2023 1:18pm
- sirknz
  
  How long till some expert trots out the line “Maori and pasifika are the most affected by this policy change”?
  
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  December 22, 2023 4:26pm
lastmanstanding

I know. Why not have three categories. Men Women and Others. Solves the problem. The confused can compete against each other.
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December 22, 2023 12:17pm
- Inandout
  
  last, farmers knew that there is a third sex when they created steers.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:57pm
Ghost

Considering their Muslim population I guess this was to be expected,

Malaysia has banned all Israeli-flagged cargo ships from docking at its ports in what it said was a response to the war in Gaza, accusing Israel of violating international law through the “massacre and brutality against Palestinians”.

On Wednesday, Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim announced the decision to impose the maritime ban on Israel-affiliated vessels – singling out ZIM, Israel’s largest shipping firm – amid growing alarm over disruptions to global shipping as a result of attacks on cargo ships in the Red Sea.

Article

Also

A member of the political office of Yemen’s Ansar Allah movement, Houtham Assad, told Sputnik on Wednesday that northern Yemen is carrying out general mobilization to deploy soldiers to Gaza if there is such an opportunity.

“As for the general mobilization in support of our people in the Gaza Strip, it was launched in all provinces, training camps were opened, tens of thousands of young people volunteered to study military craft, several groups have already graduated in various provinces of Yemen,” the official stated.

He added that the mobilization is underway in support of the people in Gaza “subjected to genocide by the Israeli occupation army with the support of the United States,” noting that when conditions are right, the soldiers will partake in military operations in the Gaza Strip.

Article
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December 22, 2023 12:25pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  More cannon fodder. Bet the tactics are similar to Iran in the Iran Iraq War.
  
  Issue them with plastic keys to n hang round their necks as the “keys to Paradise then march them into the Machine Guns of the Israelis.
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:14pm
  - Ghost
    
    Exactly. I cannot really see them lasting too long in the battlefield.
    
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    December 22, 2023 3:02pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, I smile when ’embargos’ are mentioned because they simply don’t work. Apartheid SA carried on importing/exporting from clandestine sources. During WW2 from an oil refinery in Curaçao tankers from a US based company met with German warships offshore to carry out refuelling. International trade just carries on because ‘he who pays the piper’ applies.
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:51pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah. Russia is a perfect example the past few years.
    
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    December 22, 2023 3:03pm
Tony Stuart

Great line from Gerry Brownlee during yesterday’s Adjournment Debate, where he was the final speaker…

Adjournment Debate
SPEAKER: This is the one time of year that the Speaker gets to make a speech. I’m tempted to spend some time talking about the challenges that come with the joy, the disappointments, the exhilaration of the year, etc.—all that the country has been through, but, like many of you who are still here, I’ve got a taxi waiting.
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December 22, 2023 12:50pm
- Ghost
  
  My favourite part from yesterday, the speaker rising while Winston is talking
  
  You may not think you’ve finished, but I do. And I don’t mean that in terms of your career.
  
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  December 22, 2023 12:59pm
Maggie Pie

Word of the day: SOMNAMBULISM

My partner wasn’t sure whether ‘double-bunking’ is still a thing or not….but like he said, imagine finding you had to share a jail cell with this creep for the next 6 years 🙁

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1737973531034460260
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December 22, 2023 12:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I am sure Bubba still roams the prison corridors seeking an unlocked cell door.
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:56pm
Hugh Jarse

The Herald rewrites history with its article today that the Israeli attack on Gaza is seen as amongst the deadliest and most destructive in history. While that’s technically correct, there probably about 400-500 of equal or more destruction or death so doesn’t really feature. Grant needs to talk to them about the over use of hyperbole.
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December 22, 2023 12:56pm
- Inandout
  
  HJ, do the cities of Dresden or Hiroshima have to be mentioned again?
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:59pm
Maggie Pie

About to head upstairs and start packing.
We want to be on the road early in the morning to avoid the plebs.

Time to wish everyone a very MERRY CHRISTMAS

(Be back around 13 Jan so long as the ‘weather gods’ remain kind)

And can I just say, that if anyone has been in the slightest bit offended by any of my posts, then don’t blame me.
Blame your parents, for raising such a f…ing pussy 😀

Take care everyone. See ya’s in the Twenty4

God bless!!
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December 22, 2023 2:02pm
- Ghost
  
  Enjoy your holiday
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:05pm
- Biscuit
  
  Best wishes to you and the family, Maggie…
  
  Weather gods down thisaway (Upper Hutt) aren’t playing ball:
  Sat 23 Rain
  Sun 24 Showers
  Mon 25 Showers
  Tue 26 Rain
  Wed 27 Showers
  Thu 28 Showers
  Fri 29 Showers
  Sat 30 Showers
  Sun 31 Showers
  
  I’d complain – but then I just bet I’d cop some ‘f…ing pussy’ putdowns…
  
  And, anyways, apart from a BBQ breakfast on Christmas Day morning about 2km from here I don’t envisage having to leave the house much at all over the season.
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:26pm
- mogg
  
  Maggie: wishing you all the joys of the Christmas season. (Don’t forget midnight mass on Sunday)
  
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  December 22, 2023 4:07pm
kevn

The ‘leader’ of the free world…
https://notthebee.com/article/biden-fumbles-answer-to-hamas-hostage-question-clearly-has-no-idea-what-hes-talking-about-yes-wait-where?utm_source=Not+The+Bee+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=12212023
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December 22, 2023 2:05pm
sungsamning

https://www.breitbart.com/latin-america/2023/12/21/argentina-javier-milei-signs-executive-order-weakening-ending-350-socialist-policies/
Milei Ends 350 Socialist Policies.

Milei’s executive order targeted nearly every aspect of the Argentine economy – including imports, price controls, health care, sports federations, landlord and tenant policies, and the yerba mate industry – in what he described as an attempt to impose a “shock stabilization plan” to prevent a financial catastrophe. Argentina is facing the worst economic crisis of its history as a result of decades of socialist policies, lavish government spending, and corruption, fueling skyrocketing rates of poverty, joblessness, and inflation. The nation’s inflation rate reached 160 percent in the days after Milei’s December 10 inauguration.
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December 22, 2023 2:20pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpDeQkrKLak
Blackrock Sued by TN Over ESG.
Red states are not into ESG and DEI. So some are suing Blackrock. And SCOTUS recently banned ‘affirmative action’. So, the writing is on the wall. [10:53]
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December 22, 2023 2:20pm
- Colinxy
  
  Let’s hope they win against BlackRock!
  
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  December 22, 2023 2:35pm
  - rockape
    
    Nah, my ASB KiwiSaver is with Blackrock.
    
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    December 22, 2023 3:23pm
Cinematic

I’ve noticed some NZ Herald reporters have started to refer to the coalition as a ‘regime’.

I’ve always thought that term more appropriate for the leadership of countries such as North Korea and Venezuela etc. Is the NZ government a ‘regime’?
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December 22, 2023 2:49pm
- Inandout
  
  Cine, yes regime is a common reference to governments.
  
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  December 22, 2023 3:12pm
Ghost

It’s amazing how a change of government allows the police to do their work again

Police found a large amount of cannabis in a baby’s cot in Hawke’s Bay on Friday morning.

The cannabis and a sum of cash were found during a series of search warrants in Napier and Hastings this morning.

The search warrants were undertaken following an investigation by Eastern District’s Organised Crime Group into large scale cannabis dealing in Hawke’s Bay, with links to the local Mongrel Mob.

The cannabis located has a street value of approximately $300,000. A large amount of the cannabis was located in a baby’s cot in a child’s bedroom.

Article
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December 22, 2023 3:10pm
- rangitoto
  
  Is that the outfit Jacinda paid $2.7 million?
  
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  December 22, 2023 3:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    $2.75 to the monkey mob. Not sure where they are based.
    But no dope, just bring out the meth and lawnmowers they have.
    
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    December 22, 2023 4:22pm
- cmm
  
  Is that the $300,000 pile of weed? Looks a bit small.
  
  I’m not up on weed prices, but I understand it to be around $300 to $400 an ounce or around $10k per kg. That would require 30kg to make up $300k of the stuff!
  
  The only time I’ve watched a cannabis transaction was in the Transkei (biggest dope growing region of South Africa). One of my brother’s friends gave a local we knew R20 (about $NZ50 in today’s money) for which he expected to get enough for a week or so. He was a bit overwhelmed when he received two supermarket plastic bags stuffed full.
  
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  December 22, 2023 4:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

People who want socialism don’t want to pay for it. They have not got past the Govt pays. These people will have a job that creates nothing. Best not to retire in Canada?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/support-for-socialism-in-canada-is-strong-but-no-one-wants-to-pay-for-it/ss-AA18msAK?
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December 22, 2023 5:18pm
- Swifty
  
  Steve, do you really want to be the guy that posts articles on here that you have to swipe over twenty times to read right through?
  
  FFS.
  
  Don’t we deserve a bit more credit than that?
  
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  December 22, 2023 5:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is the way is comes to me by email.
    
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    December 23, 2023 8:01am
Ra Henare

And this is how mis information is born
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/expert-says-moves-to-increase-speeds-will-kill-seriously-injure-more-kiwis-as-government-drives-in-opposite-direction.html

//
But the new Government is committed to stopping blanket speed limit reductions.

“The Government’s really committed to improving road safety but we’re not going to be imposing blanket speed limit reductions which simply slow New Zealanders down,” Transport Minister Simeon Brown said.

Journos interpretation

Followed by quote by an idiot.
TRANSPORT
Expert says moves to increase speeds will kill, seriously injure more Kiwis as Government drives in opposite direction
21/12/2023
Expert says moves to increase speeds will kill, seriously injure more Kiwis as Government drives in opposite direction
Zane Small
Watch: Expert says moves to increase speeds will kill and seriously injure more Kiwis as the Government drives in an opposite direction. Credits: Newshub

The official holiday road toll begins on Friday and it’s hoped last summer’s 21 deaths will not be repeated.

And, at a road safety seminar held by Auckland Transport on Thursday, experts made it clear reducing speed limits is key to safer roads.

But the Government is driving in the opposite direction.

More from Newshub
For the nine months to September, motorists were hit with $6m in cellphone fines compared to just a third of that in 2019 and $5m last year.
Revealed: Driving tickets for talking on cellphone soar – here’s how it compares to previous years
“We haven’t got a tolerance for speed, the limit is the limit,” Chapman emphasised.
‘Anything over 101 and you will likely be stopped’: Police cracking down on speeding, drink driving over festive season
At the seminar held by Auckland Transport (AT) on Thursday, Global Road Safety Partnership chief executive David Cliff was at pains to point out that evidence points to lower speeds reducing road deaths.

“Struck at 30 kilometres an hour, you’ve got about a 95 percent chance of surviving – it won’t kill you. If you’re struck at 50 kilometres an hour, [there’s] about 55 percent chance you’ll die,” Cliff said.

It’s a message he emphasised as motorists begin the summer holiday migration.

The World Health Organization’s Global Status Report on Road Safety published this week puts the annual number of road deaths around the globe at 1.19 million, that’s roughly the population of Auckland dying on roads each year.

“We have lowered speed limits on a number of roads in line with international evidence and seeing really, really great results,” AT safety specialist Ping Sim.

But the new Government is committed to stopping blanket speed limit reductions.

“The Government’s really committed to improving road safety but we’re not going to be imposing blanket speed limit reductions which simply slow New Zealanders down,” Transport Minister Simeon Brown said.

In practice, that means some speed limits will increase.

“Any calls to increase speed limits directly mean they’re asking for more people to be killed and seriously injured in road crashes,” Cliff said.
In practice, that means some speed limits will increase.
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December 22, 2023 5:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The stupidity of Govt Departments remains.
OK, let’s get the speed limit down to cycle pace.
Dangerous for the cyclists. Speed limit down to walking pace.
Fuck. Zane bro, get your hand off it.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/asking-for-more-to-be-killed-moves-to-increase-speeds-will-kill-seriously-injure-more-kiwis-expert/ar-AA1lPkjs?
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December 22, 2023 5:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Good thing I drink Jacks without a girly mixer.
Water? Shit the girly boys have coke with it!

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/new-study-says-you-don-t-need-to-drink-so-much-water/ar-AA15Swsz?
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December 22, 2023 5:35pm
Ghost

I must admit I almost spat my drink on my iPad watching this, great come back to being called a white supremacist for voting trump

YouTube
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December 22, 2023 6:32pm
- rouppe
  
  The funniest part is how the first person did the head shake like she dropped a real winner.
  
  From that point it was all over…
  
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  December 22, 2023 9:29pm
ProtectBabiesFromPredators

Israel-Hamas war: IDF destroys Hamas’s Palestine Square tunnels, takes over Gaza’s Shejaia.

Lovely viewing!

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/2023-12-22/live-updates-779158
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December 22, 2023 7:04pm
gorse

Anyone ever cut themselves and bled everywhere? I just did, but, I bought a number of sachets of Celox a few years ago from Israeli First Aid. Couldn’t buy it in NZ then. Poured a heap on the cut, it coagulates the blood in the wound, wrapped it up firmly, no blood oozing. I have used this several times over the years as I leak blood occasionally, being a farmer. Job not done right unless you have spilled blood on it (old saying but seems true).
The purpose of this post is to suggest that if you think you have a comprehensive first aid kit and don’t have some sachets of Celox in it, you don’t.
Get some now, cheap and effective. Might not be able to soon, I’ll bet a lot of it is being consumed in various war zones.
Google NZ suppliers.
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December 22, 2023 8:53pm

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