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January 2, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 02 January 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

The Treaty of Waitangi was / is between the Crown and Maori
Where is mention of the other roughly 83 percent of non-Maori New Zealanders?
Vaguely and indirectly in Article 3, as presumably “British subjects”?

In consideration thereof Her Majesty the Queen of England extends to the Natives of New Zealand Her royal protection and imparts to them all the Rights and Privileges of British Subjects.

As the founding document for a nation, that’s a a rather bloody sparse indirect reference of the non-Maori, non-Crown portion of the population.

So ACT offers an interpretation of the three Treaty articles based on the actual texts instead of the principles –

1 The New Zealand government has the right to govern New Zealand.
2 The New Zealand government will protect all New Zealanders’ authority over their land and other property.
3 All New Zealanders are equal under the law, with the same rights and duties
https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/05-09-2023/what-would-act-in-government-mean-for-co-governance-and-the-treaty

and they should add –
4 New Zealand Government is secular

Because New Zealand’s constitution is not all set out in one document, and much of it is found in practices and the common law, it’s known as an ‘unwritten constitution’.
– Constitutional | New Zealand Ministry of Justice

This is vague enough for a newly accepted New Zealand arrival obtaining residency, but just plain` embarrassing for someone who has lived here all their life – so far – to not know their definitive rights, and have it written down sone place officially
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January 2, 2024 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The ACT proposal is not really an interpretation of the treaty. It is three principles that one political party wish to entrench in a constitution.
  If would be preferable in they were honest and put forward a complete written constitution which they thought could get widespread support (75% approval in a referendum, for example).
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:58am
  - pdm
    
    Way you go Mikey – here is your chance to be really famous.
    
    You draft a constitution for all New Zealanders and we will critique it.
    
    It must be ready by the 1 February 2024.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:04am
    - imalwaysright
      
      A decent philosopher could probably knock one out in half an hour.
      Just because its important doesn’t mean it is difficult .
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:14am
      - Keith White
        
        So mikey can’t do it then.
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      I’m happy with our current constitution, thank you. it’s the Actoids who want to write down extra bits without widespread support.
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:51am
      - Cassandra
        
        A majority of New Zealanders do not agree with the Waitangi Tribunal (and Maori) interpretation of the ToW. Clarification is needed. Did Ngapuhi cede sovereignty, mike? What are the principles? Should we leave them as decided by Cooke? ACT’s draft is a good start.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:05am
      - Che Guava
        
        “…it’s the Actoids who want to write down extra bits without widespread support.”
        
        Like the co-governance program of the previous government that the public didn’t know about before they started implementing it, such lack of widespread support being one of the key factors in their election loss?
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:11am
      - Yvette
        
        mikenmildagain – I’m happy with our current constitution
        
        Where is any New Zealand constitution in writing.
        I am not being flippant, argumentive or anything other than inquiring genuinely.
        If the three points ACT propose are already in New Zealand law, I would be keen to know exactly where.
        
        I[t] would be preferable in they were honest and put forward a complete written constitution which they thought could get widespread support – suggests they are not in written form already
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:27am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Nope, the “actoids” simply support the Treaty as written and enacted.
        
        One of the most generous in history.
        
        Article 1: Chiefs cede sovereignty
        Article 2: Chiefs are guaranteed ownership of their property – but can sell to the Crown
        Article 3: In exchange, all Maori are granted the rights and protections of British Citizens in perpetuity.
        
        Once and done. After the Treaty was signed, British Law and the British constitution was sovereign.
        
        The alternative at the time was the continuation of the Musket Wars, cannibalism, mass dispossession of lands and slavery – and things were not going well for anybody. The Chiefs knew they were signing up to a sweet deal.
        
        QED.
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:07pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Yes but you are part of the left who hate everything the right does, m as ks sure you donate your tax threshold change back to the government coffers.
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:27pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Milky: (Fuck me, I’m doing it again)
        
        Unlike your erstwhile leader Dame Cindy – who when asked didn’t know what is in the “treaty” – , have you actually ever read the fucking thing?
        
        Me? Oh yes, and the Preamble, and the Crown pre-emption clause, which was later removed by consent – because so many Maori were dead set on selling their precious and sacred lands; on the free market and to anyone who would pay. Even if they were getting ripped off, which the Crown pre-emption clause was designed to prevent.
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:34pm
      - Dave
        
        Oops. Accidentally reported DG @ 1.34.
        
        Even if they were getting ripped off, which the Crown pre-emption clause was designed to prevent.
        
        The pre-emption clause also provided from land resales the governor with vital finance, which I presume, but don’t actually know, was an intention, so perhaps not entirely altruistic.
        
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        January 2, 2024 2:01pm
      - Yvette
        
        the deity formerly known as nigel6888 – The alternative at the time was the continuation of the Musket Wars, cannibalism, mass dispossession of lands and slavery – and things were not going well for anybody.
        
        And, you do not mention, the French were starting to close in, and would have likely claimed New Zealand if the British hadn’t.
        
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        January 2, 2024 2:08pm
    - Paulus
      
      Surely I understood that Geoffrey Palmer and his colleagues have already re written a Maori based constitution, base upon their interpretation of the so called Treaty, some years ago, just waiting to for it to be enacted.
      
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      January 2, 2024 11:10am
      - R
        
        just waiting to for it to be enacted……
        The last govt-Labour Maori were expecting a third term in office, when they would have enacted the ‘palmer constitution’. This was the labour policy that Ardern was hiding before the election.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:28am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Where were Palmer,Chen and Hodge when our civil rights were suspended?
        
        Mention a treaty and you can’t shut them up.
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        1989. Attorney General Geoffrey Palmer introduced more “Principles” of the Treaty into legislation. They were not defined so the Tribunal could make them mean whatever they wanted it to mean.
        Page 17 of the Stop Co-Governance booklet.
        
        https://issuu.com/esisite/docs/3481_jb_-_go-governance_-_a5_booklet_-_online
        
        More Principles:
        
        https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Treaty-Principles.pdf
        
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        January 2, 2024 3:09pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He is already famous, did you not know?//
      
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      January 2, 2024 1:18pm
  - KiwiSapper
    
    Act is not proposing a rewrite of the treaty, as many radicals eagerly claim. What you propose would require a rewrite and it is very apparent from comments to date re a “rewrite” that your proposal has severe opposition, as so it should. Act’s proposal of clarification of the “principles” is required because every man and his kuri expound THEIR ” view” of one or more “principles” as being one of the, so called
    principles , none of which have been widely accepted by New Zealanders.
    So we need an opportunity for the principles to be identified and set into law / statute so as to end this never ending wittering about what is, when it clearly ain’t.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:10am
    - David Garrett
      
      Act is not proposing a rewrite of the treaty, as many radicals eagerly claim.
      
      The duplicity of the MSM and their followers is much more dishonest than that KiwiS. They claim that ACT proposes a referendum on the treaty itself, in other words a referendum on whether the treaty should exist at all.
      
      Of course that is not at all what ACT is proposing, inter alia because such a radical proposal would almost certainly fail. (I myself believe the whole damn thing should be declared the nullity at law that it is, but that is not going to happen).
      
      What is proposed is a referendum on a law setting out three principles, basically a rewrite in more precise language of the three articles of the Treaty, the aim being that it becomes settled law that those three are the only “principles”, and they cannot be added to ad infinitum as is the case now.
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:33am
      - Paulus
        
        But the interpretation of the Maori version will be the only one accepted by Maori anyway, so forget it as they are always now paramount, according the the Waitangi Tribunal, which should be abolished now anyway.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:13am
      - R
        
        Seymour’s problem is that the proposed three principles is presented in english text; its comprehension is beyond the cognitive skills of more than 50% of the nation.
        Presentation in comic strip cartoon style with minglish dialogue would be more successful at explaining the proposed change.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:30am
      - Yvette
        
        Do Maori accept democracy as “one person. one vote” (or two under MMP, as perdantists insist) and if not that equality between New Zealand citizens, what do they propose?
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:36am
      - Ghost
        
        Perhaps a better way to word your post is
        
        Do some Maori not accept democracy as “one person. one vote” (or two under MMP, as perdantists insist) and if not that equality between New Zealand citizens, what do they propose?
        
        The Māori I know couldn’t give a flying fuck about the treaty, the Māori party or all the shit that is constantly raised.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:49am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Paulus,
        Nothing wrong with the original one, in Maori, translated from the Littlewood Draft.
        It is the Waitangi Tribunal James Freeman version that causes all the shit.
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:20pm
      - Terry Dalee
        
        I can prove your comment about the MSM.
        
        ___________________________________
        25 OCT 2023
        
        Hello,
        I would like to lodge a formal complaint regarding the following article.
        Election 2023: Christopher Luxon talks to Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking as coalition negotiations continue – NZ Herald
        
        Specifically this paragraph.
        
        “That will require compromise from all parties. Act wants a referendum on the Treaty of Waitangi despite Luxon saying such a vote would be “divisive”,”
        
        The paragraph is incorrect and mis-represents what ACT is actually proposing.
        ACT is proposing a referendum on the Principles of the Treaty, not the Treaty itself.
        
        Defining the Treaty principles (act.org.nz)
        
        Your article mis-represents this fact and presents it as such that it appears to the casual reader that ACT is proposing to abolish the Treaty when this is not the proposal.
        This is then reinforced by a link to an opinion piece strongly supporting this view, written by Moana Maniapoto. Even more concerning is that the link to the opinion piece appears as a explanation of fact to a casual reader, rather than a opinion piece which ACT has no right or reply.
        
        I bring this complaint against the NZ Herald as a breach of the First Principles of the NZ Media Council.
        ___________________________________
        
        The Herald changed their article and corrected it within 20 minutes of me sending that email.
        Call them out on it….
        
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        January 2, 2024 4:15pm
- rockape
  
  So according to article 3, only Maori and British have those equal rights. Not other Pacific peoples, not the Chinese,French, Germans Dutch, Philipinos, Americans Africans etc . Seems that needs corrections for a start
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You may be onto something there. A good question to ask Julian Batchelor.
    
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    January 2, 2024 1:23pm
    - David Garrett
      
      SteveO: I believe I can fairly make a claim to knowing as much or more than Mr Batchelor; a former fundamentalist preacher born in the UK as far as I know.
      
      The treaty as signed (it was never ratified, but that’s a whole other discussion) is entirely compatible with later immigrants to our fair land.
      
      In short, it was – if it was anything – a baseline under which Maori were made citizens of the British Empire, which NZ then was a part of. Later immigrants are not precluded by the treaty from also becoming citizens – of New Zealand rather than the entire empire, after we ratified the Statute of Westiminster in 1947 IIRC.
      
      Actually argubably before that, in 1931 when the Statute was passed by the British parliament. It took us 16 years to fully cut the apron springs from Mummy Britain.
      
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      January 2, 2024 1:57pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I guess you have cruised around the Stop Co-Governance website DG.
        If so, do you think anything there is untrue? I wish there was some way to get that booklet to you. I find it very interesting.
        Yes Batchelor is an evangelist but that does not worry me at all – having met him a few times. I am not a man of faith. Batchelor is genuine and committed in this quest.
        
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        January 2, 2024 3:23pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Steve O: I have no doubt Batchelor is committed to his quest…I equally have no doubt that a pom who is also a happy-clappy preacher is entirely the wrong man for the job.
        
        What is needed is a third or more generation New Zealander with an excellent understanding of constitutional law, and a very good debater…My close friend David Round for example, the author of “Truth or Treaty”, and now retired as a lecturer in law at Canterbury.
        
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        January 2, 2024 4:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        It needs someone that is beyond reproach. Batchelor is not the person.
        
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        January 2, 2024 5:01pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ Ghost 5.01.
        Maybe not the person – OK.
        But he has started the ball rolling?
        The Waitangi Tribunal lies must be contested. Remember the job of the Waitangi Tribunal’s job was to advise the Government, not dictate the Law.
        Batchelor not the person? Then who has the balls to stand up to the COUP?
        
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        January 2, 2024 5:54pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Ghost: Who would stand up without fear or favour? My good friend David Round, retired law lecturer at the best law school in the country…he is both available and would be very reasonable charging when it came to fees.
        
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        January 2, 2024 7:20pm
      - Ghost
        
        I searched to read up on him and what I found interesting was the first result was about his brother forcing the father to sign the house over to the brother. Made me wonder why that is the first result.
        
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        January 2, 2024 7:35pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        DG@ 4.54,
        Would David Round be interested?
        
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        January 3, 2024 8:13am
- CrazyIvan
  
  One concern with the wording of the Act Bill is that there’s no such thing in legislation as the ‘New Zealand government’. Rather it should say ‘the Crown” as that’s the legal entity that governs NZ from a constitutional perspective (see the Constitution Act 1986).
  
  Is Act trying to move to a republic by stealth?
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:14pm
- redeye
  
  Graham Adams has a good read on Seymour and his referendum ambitions over on Breaking Views.
  He argues that Seymour’s experience in getting his End of Life Choice referendum over the line will hold him in good stead for this battle. I agree.
  
  That is the mark of a canny and confident democrat, who believes that, given time, he will be able to persuade a majority of voters to his way of thinking.
  
  Seymour’s pitch is simple yet powerful: New Zealand needs a discussion about Treaty principles and people should have a say on them alongside the courts, the Waitangi Tribunal and public servants. And rather than a “partnership between races”, his principles aim to give all people “equal rights and duties”.
  
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/01/graham-adams-treaty-principles-debate.html
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:27pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  In essence, on signing the treaty, Maori ceased to exist as an independent party. They converted their status to that of British subject.
  
  Therefore, the on-going relationship for all of us is that between Crown and subject (now citizen), regardless of when we or our forebears migrated here.
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:38pm
- Scott
  
  No they should not add the secular part. We have quite enough secular already thanks very much.
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:42pm
  - Yvette
    
    Scott your comments suggest you are. if I may make the assumption, a Christian.
    Secular Government probably means any religious reference in a Parliamentary Prayer will be replaced by some aspirational statement invoking honesty and respect among members, but ‘secular’ would supposedly remove all government references to te Ao Maori as well – perhaps what you allude to in “We have quite enough secular already thanks very much”
    
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    January 2, 2024 12:58pm
    - Scott
      
      Umm, still don’t want secular.
      
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      January 2, 2024 1:46pm
    - Scott
      
      I should reply to your most excellent questions and comments but forgive me. 2nd day of the year. Brain not capable of deep thought.
      
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      January 2, 2024 5:15pm
- Terry Dalee
  
  “When The Spinoff approached Act for policy clarifications, their answers failed to directly address our questions – so we have sought comments on the party’s policies from a range of New Zealanders of differing ethnicities, occupational backgrounds and political affiliations who have strong knowledge about topics like the Treaty, co-governance and decolonisation.”
  
  In other words, ACT’s explanation didn’t agree with our view, so we set off to find only opinions that conform and support our view with people that held similar views, clearly demostrating the concept of “Confirmation Bias”…..
  
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  January 2, 2024 4:10pm
Cassandra

The crusading Australian journalist John Pilger, the Bollinger Bolshevik, has died. While I’m sure he’ll be mourned by his family, I can’t say I admired him or his work. To pilger ie embellish and/or lie to make a point, has entered the lexicon. He stood surety for Assange and forfeited thousands.
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January 2, 2024 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  A remarkable journalist, who broke many important and under-reported stories.
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:59am
  - Cassandra
    
    A remarkable man in many ways – not all good but some undoubtedly were – but even his closest admirers and mentors thought he went too far.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Perhaps you could provide some examples where ‘he went too far’ and explain how that diminishes his legacy of remarkable and courageous journalism.
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:53am
      - Cassandra
        
        Wilfred Burchett: “I always tell John not to tilt at so many windmills”; his support for the invasion of Ukraine; his approval of the 9/11 events; perpetual approval of Castro. Starting with the Thai orphan hoax. There’s a long list, mike.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:13am
      - herb1
        
        Perhaps you could provide some examples of the many important and under reported stories he wrote
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:41am
      - MCōs
        
        John Pilger on the Russia/Ukraine war
        https://www.eurasiareview.com/22082023-john-pilger-silencing-the-lambs-how-propaganda-works-oped/
        
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        January 2, 2024 4:52pm
      - MCōs
        
        How was Pilger involved in Thai or Cambodian orphan scandals?
        There’s plenty on the internet, but I can’t find anything about his involvement
        
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        January 2, 2024 5:09pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘MR JOHN PILGER In March John Pilger wrote an article
        in the Daily Mirror describing child slavery in Thailand. The Spectator agrees that the exploitation of children in Thailand is a serious problem. Mr Pilger highlighted his article with the case of a child for whom he paid £85. The Spec- tator believes that, in this case, Mr Pilger was the unwitting victim of a hoax. Mr Pilger does not believe he was hoaxed.’
        http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/15th-january-1983/7/mr-john-pilger-in-march-john-pilger-wrote-an-artic
        
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        January 2, 2024 5:47pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘In 1982 the Daily Mirror printed a dramatic story by Pilger about a young Thai girl, called Sunee, who had been forced to work as a slave in appalling conditions before being rescued by Pilger and reunited with her grateful family in a village outside Bangkok. But soon after, the Thai press claimed that Sunee the slave girl did not exist. As the story began to unravel (Auberon Waugh gleefully claimed that Pilger had been hoaxed), Pilger at first blamed a CIA plot to discredit him. But the truth was more pedestrian. Sunee, it turned out, was the daughter of a taxi driver whose “identity” as a child slave worker had been fabricated by a local “fixer” hired by Pilger’s research team.’
        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2023/12/31/john-pilger-journalist-documentary-australian-obituary/
        
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        January 2, 2024 7:46pm
- Jethrod
  
  Ms Kim Hill will be saying Deo Gratis
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:19am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    Irrespective of his many faults, Pilger’s evisceration of Hill was a golden moment in New Zealand’s broadcasting history.
    
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    January 2, 2024 12:00pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Michael: You and I must have listened to different interviews…as I heard it, Ms Hill was the undoubted winner in that contest…which is quite something since I suspect her politics were/are quite similar to his.
      
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      January 2, 2024 2:50pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Kbers can decide for themselves.
        
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/10/flashback-friday-kim-hills-explosive-interview-with-john-pilger/
        
        Personal gave a win to Pilger
        
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        January 2, 2024 4:36pm
      - MCōs
        
        The Hill/Pilger interview
        https://youtu.be/jzSTY4IRDnM?si=U7MsRIRastc5A8EP
        
        Kim Hill has done thousands of interviews
        I doubt if one from twenty years ago will be giving her too much bother
        
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        January 2, 2024 4:59pm
      - Cassandra
        
        Pilger by a wide margin. Two peacocks, the short haired one lost its feathers.
        
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        January 3, 2024 8:21am
Chuck Bird

The only way to achieve nett zero is by tripling nuclear power generation.
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January 2, 2024 8:17am
- Blackbob
  
  The only way to achieve nett zero is to wipe out *ALL* life off the planet.
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:24am
- CJames
  
  There is another way which is what the “elites” want. Force the middle class of the Western world back into serfdom and have a drastic reduction in the number of people who exist.
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:24am
  - CJames
    
    Serfdom might be too strong a word, but what else do you call a drastic reduction in living standards of the new dystopia? All travel has to be within 15 minutes, mainly by walking or cycling? Any distance travel has to be by public transport? Housing intensification, no suburbia with a section, just a shoebox apartment? An unreliable and very expensive power supply, with no alternative forms of heating? No nitrogen fertilisers so crop yields decrease? No meat but all the insects to eat you want? The only source of news is from approved organisations to limit disinformation?
    Of course, if you are one of the self-selected overlords, these don’t apply.
    
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    January 2, 2024 8:33am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Poundbury, in a word.
      
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      January 2, 2024 9:19am
    - Matt Long
      
      The road to serfdom.
      https://www.blinkist.com/en/books/the-road-to-serfdom-en
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:26am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    The depopulationists will get their wish. China’s population has peaked and will go into a precipitous decline. The world’s population will peak at around 10 billion and will be in decline be the end of this century.
    
    Young depopulationists will be old by then. When populations fall due to declining birth rates, they skew perpetually towards the elderly. A relatively small number of working-age people will resent paying the taxes required to support all those aging depopulationists. Soylent green, anyone?
    
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    January 2, 2024 12:09pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  On that note, here’s a superb article by Jeffrey A Tucker talking about the dawning realisation by many of the climitards that EVs aren’t going to ‘save the planet’.
  
  Talking about the crème de la crème, the Tesla, Tucker said:
  
  A friend got a rental of a Tesla over the holidays. It’s undoubtedly the industry standard for EVs and a complete blast to drive. The problem: It’s not a practical car at all. He was driving in the cold, and the car was nearly drained after two hours. Searching for a charge was no easy task. The first one didn’t work. The second one stated that it would be charged in 10 hours, which he didn’t have. The third one charged in one hour but that was a full hour wasted.
  
  His conclusion: This is indeed a glorified golf cart designed to keep you at home and under the thumb of the manufacturer.
  
  Ouch. So true. An excellent read.
  
  https://www.zerohedge.com/political/consumers-are-rejecting-great-reset
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    If you take Zero Hedge (famously described as having ‘accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions’) seriously, it’s no wonder that you hold such odd opinions.
    
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    January 2, 2024 8:32am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Ah Milkey, I see you’ve learned nothing regarding debating your pov, even though I’ve repeatedly advised you how not to do it.
      
      “ZeroHedge” is the vehicle. The author is Jeffrey A Tucker.
      
      Ad hominem is intellectually lazy at best, in reality it’s infantile stuff.
      Read the article. If you can discredit it with logic and rational debate, do so. Otherwise don’t comment. Attacking the source as some sort of spectacular ‘gotcha’ makes you look stupid.
      
      Again.
      
      55 5
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      January 2, 2024 8:42am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        For a start, that barely qualifies as an article. It’s 6 paragraphs of an anecdote from “a friend who rented a Tesla over the holidays”, drawing wide ranging conclusions without any hard data backing it up and ending with a tinfoil hat theory about creating a society of dependents. Did you even bother reading what you posted? ZeroHedge isn’t even the original publisher, it’s a lift from another site.
        
        Here’s a few clues for “Jeffrey A. Tucker”: 80% of vehicles in Norway are electric; over 90% of new car sales are EV’s. They have an extensive recharging network and don’t seem to have much of a problem with “the cold”.
        
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        January 2, 2024 9:00am
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘: 80% of vehicles in Norway are electric’
        Not true. Its about 20%
        And sales are highly subsidised- which Norway can afford, thanks to oil (ironic!). They also have a lot of hydro (not solar or wind) which gives them the energy they need.
        ‘EVs’ growing success in Norway is partly due to governmental policies. Norway offers VAT cuts for electric vehicles, making them cheaper than ICE or hybrid cars. As of 2022, an average of 20,360 U.S. dollars were subsidized for EV purchases in the country, compared to 1,157 U.S. dollars in China and 7,500 U.S. dollars in the United States.’
        
        USD$20,000 discount!
        https://www.statista.com/topics/7176/e-mobility-in-norway/#topicOverview
        
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        January 2, 2024 9:58am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Hard Cheese
        It made me chuckle to see the ‘article’ taken seriously. A guy rents a vehicle having no idea of its range or how to recharge it and expects his story to serve as a warning against EVs? Only the weak-minded would lap up such bullshit.
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:03am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Speaking of people who rent EVs who have no idea what they are doing, I give you US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm!
        Funny story with a dose of reality for the top US Energy official.
        Heres an excerpt
        ‘“Her advance team realized there weren’t going to be enough plugs to go around. One of the station’s four chargers was broken, and others were occupied. So an Energy Department staffer tried parking a nonelectric vehicle by one of those working chargers to reserve a spot for the approaching secretary of energy,” she explained.
        And that move “did not go down well.”
        
        https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/09/11/a-scene-out-of-veep-energy-secretary-granholms-summer-ev-road-trip-hit-some-hilarious-bumps-1395007/
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:22am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        @All_On_Red
        
        True about the ~20% of vehicles being electric, but with >90% of new car sales being electric and new non-electric sales prohibited in 2025, there is only one way that share is going. Subsidies have nothing to do with the cold weather performance and the laughable conclusion that a Tesla is “a glorified golf cart designed to keep you at home and under the thumb of the manufacturer” – as if it never gets cold in Norway and no-one can drive anywhere without Elon Musk’s permission.
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:51am
      - All_on_Red
        
        HC
        If Norway removed the subsidies and the Legislated Compulsion to have only EVs, what success in adoption would there actually be?
        All the data in the rest of the world shows that whilst EVs have enjoyed significant growth, that growth limit has possibly been reached and sales are now falling off. EV stock is piling up and the Depreciation on EVs is wicked.
        Looks like 6-10% market share is the max- which I would expect, as I see EVs mainly being useful for localised travel (commuting, school runs, supermarket etc)- like the second small car we all seem to have.
        Personally I’m a fan of the old BMW i3 RX- quirky cool thing that it is. In the meantime we will stick to the Golf GTi as a second car (third actually)
        
        Just on Tesla- Musk is introducing new manufacturing techniques to cut costs. He can see the writing on the wall with regard to subsidies
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:04am
      - Jethrod
        
        Why has everything above on this thread got “Report” only? We need to reply to some of the garbage.
        
        8 3
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        January 2, 2024 11:23am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Jethrod @ 11:23AM
        
        If you wish to respond to, say, All_on_Red’s 9:58AM comment, you go straight back up to Clan Mcleod’s 8:42AM comment, and click on ‘Reply’.
        
        To make it clear, straight off, who you are responding to, you should do what I have done, in response to you, by starting off with—
        
        @All_on_Red @ 9:58AM (or similar)
        
        —then your comment, which will show up, nested, in a straight line down from Clan Mcleod’s comment (as this comment has done).
        
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        January 2, 2024 3:44pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Oh, have no fear about the lack of charging stations. Our staunch new coalition (National, that is) is about to spend quarter of a billion dollars on making sure all those EVs don’t have to travel more than 30 minutes between charges… and then wait just as long to get a “quick” top-up.
    
    There’s still that little problem of where all the power is going to come from, but won’t it warm the socially-conscious heart of Citizen X as they look out the window at the $80k EVs being charged at the neighbourhood station while they shiver in their hovel unable to pay the inflated power bill.
    
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    January 2, 2024 8:52am
    - pdm
      
      Countdown Hastings has about 6 charging places.
      
      In the year or so they have been there doubt I have seen more than one car a day using them. Just another place to park on busy days for most customers because the spaces are always there.
      
      18 1
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      January 2, 2024 10:08am
      - MCōs
        
        “In the year or so they have been there doubt I have seen more than one car a day using them”
        Countdown is open fifteen hours a day
        What do you do with the other nine?
        
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        January 2, 2024 5:29pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      FYI:
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/133512940/blenheim-ev-hub-leads-the-charge
      Some ‘small town” thinking and action.
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:56am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “…Hikotron, expected four 22kW chargers to go live in Blenheim’s Wynen Street car park at the end of January.
        
        Depending on a vehicle’s battery and the charge it already held, it would take about an hour to add enough charge to travel 100 kilometres, she said. However, most EVs on the market could only charge at 11kW.”
        
        Versus five minutes to fill your tank and travel 700kms.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:04am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Just enough volts to get you to the ferry
        
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        January 2, 2024 12:44pm
    - Paulus
      
      I expect to see the sales of EVs drop totally as the Taxpayers subsidy is now cancelled.
      It is only a snob value car !
      
      18 2
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      January 2, 2024 11:16am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Apparently car sales are dropping the prices of EVs, as Nats stated for the last three years car sales will put prices up yo cover the premium of an EV, they say prices have already started dropping, so maybe sales may well stay up
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:34pm
- kowtow
  
  Net zero ?
  
  Why buy into their dystopia .
  
  26 2
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  January 2, 2024 8:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Quite. There is zero benefit in zero anthropogenic emissions unless one counts returning civilization to the 6-day per week subsistence farming of the early 1800s as a leap for humanity
    
    27 2
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    January 2, 2024 9:11am
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s a pretext to allow authorities to monitor you and to justify regulating your behaviour and activities. It’s kinda like telling prisoners that the main aim of prison and the reason they are incarcerated is to keep the inmates safe.
      
      We see the clear connections here between the practical reality and the rhetoric of both the “climate catastrophe” and “global pandemic” political projects: an omnipresent danger, ceding autonomy, centralised monitoring, following instructions, regulation of behavior, conforming to social pressure …. and so on. It’s all the same thing but with different labels.
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:10am
      - imalwaysright
        
        The supreme arrogance of pretending that we can alter the temperature of a planet in a hundred years!
        
        The believers seem to have a cartoon level intellect.
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:25am
      - Che Guava
        
        “The believers seem to have a cartoon level intellect.”
        
        Oh, thanks. That was one of the similarities between climate catastrophe and global pandemics that I neglected to note above: accepting the pronouncements of perceived authority simply because of that perception, regardless of the authority’s faults in logic or the absence of supporting evidence.
        
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        January 2, 2024 10:52am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Did anyone see on Sky News the 17 seventeen-year-old who went to COP18 to promote nuclear power?
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:37am
  - MCōs
    
    No I didn’t
    There were 17,000 delegates to COP18
    This person must have been mighty riveting otherwise why would anyone be bothered by what a 17yo has to say?
    
    7 9
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    January 2, 2024 8:56am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      “This person must have been mighty riveting”
      
      He was. That is why he was interviewed on Sky and he was listened to at COP18.
      
      18 2
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      January 2, 2024 9:02am
    - Salacious Crumb
      
      And yet the same audience worships the incoherent ramblings of an autistic Swedish teen.
      
      30 2
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      January 2, 2024 9:12am
      - MCōs
        
        Greta Thunberg is 21 tomorrow as it happens
        Was she at COP18 too?
        
        4 6
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        January 2, 2024 10:41am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Possibly she was. Afterall she finally completed High School at age 20 so probably has more time.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:24am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Ep 424: Will Shackel – Founder, Nuclear for Australia
      
      https://www.lastenergy.com/titansofnuclear/experts/willshackel
      
      7 2
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      January 2, 2024 10:20am
- Paulus
  
  Unfortunately triple nett zero is still zero.
  But we still, socially and politically, need to embrace the energy which can be created by modern forms of fusion and fission which in effect is a part of the so called word nuclear.
  It is being done elsewhere in the world already at an advanced stage.
  
  17 1
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  January 2, 2024 8:58am
- JJ56
  
  The only way to achieve net zero is to find a way around that pesky second law of thermodynamics.
  
  18 1
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  January 2, 2024 9:05am
slightlyrighty

So, who will replace Jessica Mutch-Mckay as TVNZ Political Editor? Will the replacement bring a sense of balance to TVNZ in its political coverage?

Why is she leaving for a non media role? What could she less us about government/media relations in the last 6 years?

Word is that Maiki Sherman could get the role. I hope not.
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January 2, 2024 8:17am
- ClanMcleod
  
  ANZ will have employed her because of her network of connections she will have accumulated over her ‘career’. It certainly won’t be due to her ability. She has none.
  
  38 2
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  January 2, 2024 8:53am
  - kowtow
    
    Our media love to attack US politics with all the “lobbyists” there .In essense ANZ have hired an msm political hack as a lobbyist .
    
    “Jessica , then Tova”.
    
    18 1
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    January 2, 2024 11:30am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Hmm, ANZ, Key buying out the dictatorial leftie media, hopefully that fulla that spouts the Māori Dallow will be next
    
    6 3
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    January 2, 2024 1:39pm
- Paulus
  
  Of course Sherman will get the job – she is Maori and a Women, I believe ~!
  
  26 2
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  January 2, 2024 8:59am
  - Warren
    
    Who ever TV One employ as the replacement for Jessica Mutch McKay won’t change things as they will be looking at there own agenda and how they will smear the Coalition to help that.
    Who ever is appointed to fill the vacancy will be in the same mould as John Campbell, Jack Tane, and many others that work for One News and are prepared to be puppets to spread the lies and innuendo that those in charge want.
    
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    January 2, 2024 9:24am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Doesn’t really matter.
      Their ratings are plummeting.
      Who is going to pay to advertise to a handful of tight fisted marxists.
      
      23 2
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      January 2, 2024 10:36am
      - GJM
        
        They don’t need to rely on private advertising. They have government subsidies via ads and NZ on Air.
        The new government needs to defend [defund] NZ on air, stop all non essential ads, which means all of them, and sell off tvnz and purred radio on a subscription model. Why actively support your enemy? Take so e lessons from the lefties, and play hard
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:51am
  - Tricati
    
    And a close friend of Hipkins, so a shoe in to spout the anti-National rhetoric nightly.
    
    22 1
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    January 2, 2024 9:25am
- MCōs
  
  As part of my roll as an elderly retired grandfather I keep an eye on X and I note that people with a different political view than those generally expressed on this forum consider Jessica M² to be decidedly right of centre
  So there you are. Doesn’t matter who you are everyone’s against you.
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Everyone is biased. Except me!
    
    8 25
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    January 2, 2024 10:04am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Uptick from me, Mikey
      
      2 4
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      January 2, 2024 12:46pm
  - Cassandra
    
    So what is a roll model? Small doughnut?
    
    18 0
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    January 2, 2024 10:14am
    - dubya
      
      No, a plus-size ‘influencer’.
      
      17 0
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      January 2, 2024 10:51am
- Prince
  
  Whoever it is, John Campbell will be involved, and pulling the strings.
  Expect three years of virulent anti-Govt propaganda.
  
  24 1
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  January 2, 2024 9:45am
  - Cassandra
    
    I wonder. Do we have a Minister who might take an interest? It’s Melissa Lee, she might just remind TVNZ of its charter. Or change the charter. Or sell the whole caboodle for millions. (Not dollars).
    
    23 1
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    January 2, 2024 10:15am
    - MCōs
      
      TVNZ probably should have been sold years ago, but it’s too late now.
      
      15 3
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      January 2, 2024 10:49am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Speaking of Campbell, Karl du Fresne has a good article on him
    ‘It possibly doesn’t occur to Campbell – nor to TVNZ, obviously – that his political partisanship seriously compromises his journalistic credibility among the many New Zealanders who voted Labour out and welcomed the policy U-turns that he finds so egregious. What chance do New Zealanders have of hearing politically neutral comment from the state-owned TV network’s Chief Correspondent? What chance of a straight, unbiased account of any contentious issue about which Campbell holds strong opinions? The answer, it seems, is zero.’
    https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2024/01/karl-du-fresne-epic-display-of-dummy.html
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:34am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Luckily we have journalists like Du Fresne to provide nonpartisan and unbiased accounts.
      
      2 29
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      January 2, 2024 10:56am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Du Fresne doesnt describe himself as a ‘journalist’ but as a ‘columnist and commentator’
        At least he is honest in that regard unlike Campbell- and others
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:14am
      - All_on_Red
        
        To add, who can forget the deliciousness of Hillary Barry’s massive ego being pricked when FIFA denied her accreditation as a Journalist because she was a ‘presenter’.
        So funny.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300883155/tv-legend-hilary-barry-denied-access-to-fifa-media-hub-for-failing-to-prove-shes-a-bona-fide-member-of-the-media
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:28am
      - Jack5
        
        Great line about Campbell in du Fresne’s article: “He has made a career out of oozing empathy.”
        
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        January 2, 2024 1:18pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        Du Fresne isn’t on the public payroll, so he’s not obliged to be non-partisan. Campbell is.
        
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        January 2, 2024 8:16pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yes, Helen Clark had his number:
    
    “sanctimonious little creep”
    
    I seem to recall.
    
    17 0
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    January 2, 2024 1:17pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Absolutely. Auntie Helen vindicated once again. She also described The Maaori Party as “haters and wreckers”.
      
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      January 2, 2024 8:17pm
- pdm
  
  They will probably give it to the sheila who has been doing the weather the last few days. She really knows how to mangle the lingo.
  
  We watch TV3 weather when her face appears.
  
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  January 2, 2024 10:11am
  - Dodger
    
    What a great idea. I agree with you totally listening to her telling us about the weather and at just about the end of her tirade she’ll say something like “Napier”.
    Absolutely nuts. Thanks for the heads up pdm.
    
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    January 2, 2024 11:16am
  - graham
    
    On a somewhat related note, what a delight it has been to have Jenny Suo presenting the news recently.
    
    A thoroughly professional news presenter, we’re going to miss her when she hands back the reins.
    
    10 1
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    January 2, 2024 11:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Best go to wimdy.com
    TV weather is a comedy show.
    
    5 1
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    January 2, 2024 3:38pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I hope JMM was pushed
  
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  January 2, 2024 1:36pm
artemisia

Water regulator’s $47,577 Canada trip touches a nerve in Christchurch

Taumata Arowai, the water services regulator, spent $47,577 to send four staff to Canada last year, to help develop an exemptions process for the regulatory requirement for residual disinfectant, typically chlorine, in drinking water. A spokesperson for the fledgling regulator said the trip was part of “building our in-house technical capabilities and knowledge” for processing applications for exemptions.

While not a huge amount of $$ in the scheme of things, I wonder if staffer time was included in the cost, and what overall cost may have been if they had stayed home, read available publications and had a couple of zoom meetings.

Article is on ZBPlus, am assuming paywalled so link not included here.
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January 2, 2024 8:25am
- thirteenstars
  
  “While not a huge amount of $$ in the scheme of things”
  
  Uh, it’s the average taxpayer’s income tax bill for about six years. That’s how we should see all public spending expressed: how many AITYs (average income tax years) the spending will suck up.
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:59am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Did the article say why 4 staff were required to travel? Was there any consideration of sending, say, just two staff?
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:24am
  - thirteenstars
    
    But with four you get an entire row in business class. It’s more fun that way. Like a little slice of Aotearoa hurtling across Polynesia in a ~~colonialist~~ sky waka sipping on chilled ~~colonialist~~ pinot.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:31am
  - artemisia
    
    The article didn’t say whether other (low or no carbon / cost) options were considered. It does however say – “The water services regulator, currently responsible for drinking water quality, is cash-strapped”.
    
    OK then. Better go quickly before there’s a change in government.
    
    11 1
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    January 2, 2024 10:39am
- cmm
  
  Naah, couldn’t have done it in three Zoom meetings…
  
  FFS I consult around the world on far more technical matters than these. Last time I actually traveled anywhere was in 2008.
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:22am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “building our in-house technical capabilities and knowledge”. Nope, no zoom meetings for these people. Straight to the jolly. Labour, since time immemorial, the spender of other peoples money.
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:19pm
Bridgenag

The single most important interview I’ve ever done: former Kaiser nurse Gail Macrae
90% of the COVID deaths in hospitals were attributed to COVID treatment protocols. ICU doc estimated up to an 80% increase in mortality due to the COVID vaccine.

“Bottom line: it wasn’t the virus that caused the pandemic. It was our response to the virus (top-down dictated treatment protocols and vaccination directives) that caused nearly all the morbidity and mortality. It was all preventable had we listened to the people that our government wanted to silence.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/the-single-most-important-interview?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 2, 2024 8:58am
- imalwaysright
  
  Makes you wonder if they needed the virus at all.
  A dose of the flu and a double dose of fear seemed to be all that was required.
  Odd that we still are presented with drawings of the “virus”.
  How about a nice closeup photograph?
  Crickets…
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:40am
  - Matt Long
    
    Why would alleged medical specialists advise the NY government to put people infected with a respiratory disease back into old folks’ homes?
    It seems like a deliberate strategy to kill a lot of people fast and generate panic.
    
    15 2
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    January 2, 2024 10:08am
  - Che Guava
    
    “Makes you wonder if they needed the virus at all.”
    
    They didn’t. While I accept that there is such a thing as C-19, they could just as easily have done everything they did without it.
    
    Think about it: wall to wall media coverage, daily televised pronouncements from concerned-looking officials, government edicts re: behaviour to “keep us safe”, reinforcement of the same through person-to-person repetition within society at large, and so on. All of this contexts was totally independent of their actually being a virus in the community.
    
    To a very very large degree, the crucial aspects were all psychological, not virological. The reason for this is that, even at the best of times, what we know (or think we know and therefore believe) about the world is second or third or forth hand, very little of our total experience being the result of direct sense experience.
    
    It helped that people got ill or knew people that did, but I don’t think this was a necessary condition of Covidmania at all – “reports” of illness alone would have been a good substitute. If you’re in Invercargill, how can you very claims being made about what is happening in Auckland, Los Angeles or London? You just have to take someone’s word.
    
    They could have claimed that a herd of Big Foots were running amok and, despite nobody actually seeing any particular Big Foot themselves, under the right psychological conditions, the gullible masses could be easily led to believe that they were “out there” ready to get them if they didn’t follow orders.
    
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    January 2, 2024 12:44pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Exactly Che ,
      
      Don’t forget the “asymptomatic covid sufferers”.
      That was a device they invented to explain all of the false positive PCR tests.
      Those were the tests the developer said that to run them at more than 23 repetitions would give so many false positives as to make them meaningless.
      
      So, therefore NZ health ran them 45 times!
      
      It wouldn’t surprise me if everyone tested positive and the authorities only declared a percentage necessary to continue the fear, the mandates, and the control and still maintain a level of believability.
      
      People in the UK were swabbing pot plants and their dogs rear end and getting positive results.
      
      What virus!
      
      7 1
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      January 2, 2024 1:26pm
Bridgenag

College Football is a Microcosm of our Society
Who is at Fault for the Transfer Portal Debacle: Colleges, or Athletes, or?

…..The Bottom Line

This issue is a microcosm of what is happening in society in general. We have departed from the Judeo-Christian standards America was founded on, and are instead emphasizing secular standards like relativism. This philosophy is a breeding ground for entitlement mentalities, every man person for themself, the end justifies the means, etc.

Maybe seeing the horrific consequences of what is going on in “higher education” — and sports academics in particular — might jar us awake before it’s too late to change course?……

https://open.substack.com/pub/criticallythinking/p/college-football-is-a-microcosm-of?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 2, 2024 9:00am
Tasman devil

19 January 2024 is the anniversary of Ardern’s announcement of her decision to resign as Prime Muppet.

Is there a will to move the public holiday of Matariki Day to 19 January and call it Freedom Day?

We need to have that conversation, but
I think there would be overwhelming support for this initiative.

The TAB should give odds on her not living in Aotearoa New Zealand for 5 years.

There is virtually no chance of her being back here any time soon, but we need to have that conversation.

If she returns she could be placed in MIQ, but we need to have that conversation.
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January 2, 2024 9:16am
- Ghost
  
  You want a holiday to recognise and celebrate Ardern? That’s what it is no matter how you dress it up. Move on, she’s living rent free in so many peoples heads. Stop giving her attention
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:18am
  - Matt Long
    
    We celebrate Guy Fawkes, we celebrate VE day.
    We could celebrate it as a genuine Kiwi holiday on May 5th when bonfires and burning effigies would suit the climate.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:13am
    - Ghost
      
      Go for it if you want to remember ardern. I doubt many care about her. But I’m sure the left will love having a holiday to celebrate her. Would you like a statue of her too?
      
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      January 2, 2024 10:42am
      - Taieri
        
        Would you like a statue of her too?
        ——
        
        Perhaps a dartboard?
        
        17 2
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        January 2, 2024 10:47am
      - Matt Long
        
        The purpose of memorials is to serve as a reminder and example or warning to future generations.
        How will the younger generations know what weak minded New Zealanders allowed that woman to do, while fawning over her stupidity, if we don’t tell them?
        George Santayana; Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:21am
      - Ghost
        
        Any Ardern memorial will be used by the left to celebrate her.
        
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        January 2, 2024 11:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Locked in MIQ so she knows what it is like.
  No visitors and separated from all family.
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:36am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Where’s Wally.
    He was a media whore. Used to ring chemists to explain the rules etc. Now nothing.
    
    13 3
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    January 2, 2024 9:51am
  - Keith White
    
    Damn right.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:47am
- cas
  
  Didn’t she say to Clarke on that day, let’s get married? No pictures of that yet.
  
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  January 2, 2024 10:09am
  - Ghost
    
    Who cares. Are you such an ardern fan you are waiting for her wedding?
    
    You remind me of the lefties that are still rabbiting on about John Key.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:26am
- Ipanema69
  
  I plan on dropping an OIA act request onto the police for the total expenditure on security costs for Jacinda in the 12 months following her resignation. Will also make the same request for the previous four prime ministers.
  
  I would be interested to know the results but I suspect it will probably end up at the Ombudsman.
  
  It would also be interesting to know if the nz taxpayer is forking out anything for overseas based protection.
  
  I can see the rationale for providing security to a former prime minister in new zealand for a time after leaving office.
  
  However overseas protection for a former pm seems to be really over the top.
  
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  January 2, 2024 1:06pm
  - Ghost
    
    You should also request the reason for that protection, the death threats and abuse that are the reason for her needing that security. Without that, she wouldn’t need the protection
    
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    January 2, 2024 1:18pm
- David Garrett
  
  Tasman: Have you noticed the deafening silence about the celebrity wedding (on a farm owned by a multi-millionaire American) which got cancelled due to Covid? Is it still “on” for some date in the future? If so when? Is the fisherman still doing a Duke of Edinburgh three paces behind the Princess? Have any other nannies got pregnant?
  
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  January 3, 2024 8:37am
Handyman

Ardern was a great example to the left of the advantage of absolute power of the leader based on personal popularity. (rather than ideas or competence)
The Green Party used to work by consensus and was policy driven. Ardern showed a new model whereby everything was about the leader which concentrated power with each magazine cover and “like” on Facebook. Notice Swarbrick has put all her energy into becoming leader by raising her personal profile. Once she is leader, the rules of engagement will slightly change to cement her hold. I predict the “co-leader” will become de facto deputy leader.
In other words, the transition from environmental party to soviet style communist party will be complete.

Compare that to the governing coalition. Luxon has a front bench and he expects them to do their jobs. It is a normal CEO/GM relationship. Peters of course is the brand of NZF but I submit he is values/policy driven rather than personal power driven.

Luxon will never pop out to announce to the media that he is closing down say the entire off shore fishing industry and that is now official part [party] policy for all time. Swarbrick dreams of being able to make “commissar’s calls”.
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January 2, 2024 9:16am
- MCōs
  
  Mr Luxon is no longer a businessman; he’s a political leader. He’s in a much weaker position because at any time Seymour or Peters can withdraw from the coalition; particularly Peters.
  NZF has been in three coalitions before and three times they have subsequently picked up less than 5% of the party vote at the next election.
  NZF has a track record of me me me, unlike ACT who rely on the Nats
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:55pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    I think both Peters and Seymour understand the importance of keeping this government together. They know what’s at stake.
    
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    January 2, 2024 8:21pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Pope: Peters may well know “what’s at stake”, but that won’t stop him doing whatever suits him best, as he has always done before.
      
      I am prepared to wager $100 that this coalition government won’t last three years, and it will be Peters who causes it to collapse.
      
      Email me on: d.garrett@xtra.co.nz
      if you’d like to take me up on said wager.
      
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      January 3, 2024 8:41am
Swifty

Grant Robertson’s legacy:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/debt-explained-how-much-does-nz-owe-and-who-do-we-owe-it-to-the-front-page/AQ6WR65VTFHS7IWEDURLLAAX4U/
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January 2, 2024 9:30am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/how-activists-try-to-shift-the-argument-away-from-facts-onto-their-turf-which-is-the-mystical/
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January 2, 2024 10:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Gravy Train must be stopped. All power to David Seymour.
  Do not let the Waitangi Tribunal “experts” dictate what the Treaty means. The Treaty they are using is the rogue James Freeman version.
  Remember, the Tribunal does not make the Laws, the Govt does. The Tribunal only recommends to the Govt!
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:31am
  - MCōs
    
    Speaking of gravy trains
    Where does Julian Batchelor get his funding from?
    He doesn’t seem to have a real job.
    
    He reminds me of a guy I read about who was a run of the mill engineer in the US before 9/11
    He had this bright idea and made a movie for YouTube ostensibly proving the twin towers was blown up by the FBI or some other third party
    Guy made millions
    
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    January 2, 2024 1:42pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Cool story.//
      
      He is open about making money in real estate.
      
      Stop Co-governance seems to be attracting plenty of willing donors. Plenty of people happy to give money to try and stop the unelected tribal elite 1% continuing to extend their grab of power and resources.
      
      So what is your motive for slurring Julian Batchelor?
      
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      January 2, 2024 2:26pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Funding is from donations, but you know that.
      The Stop Co-Governance booklet production is funded by donations – some as high as $20,000. Many meeting venues were offered free, especially after Council venues stopped the meetings due to activist pressure. A few Councils (say Taupo) are going to Court via the Free Speech Union pressing charges.
      Now if you took time to visit http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi you would know all of this.
      But no, attack via social media gives you cover.
      Sad MCos.
      
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      January 2, 2024 3:55pm
    - David Garrett
      
      MCos: perfectly legitimate question about Batchelor’s funding…and fully answered by Pineapple Lumps…(I also recall reading or hearing that Batchelor owns a large property portfolio)
      
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      January 3, 2024 8:44am
imalwaysright

Have to feel sorry for Japan .
When it happens here we are in deep trouble.
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January 2, 2024 10:55am
- Ghost
  
  They were very lucky. Hopefully no larger quakes are coming.
  
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  January 2, 2024 10:57am
- cmm
  
  Some people say the dumbest things:
  
  “A snowboarder on holiday in Japan’s Hakuba Alps said his entire hotel room shook.”
  
  You’d be in far more trouble if only half the room shook because that would mean the room had split in half.
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67855990
  
  There is very little tsunami risk for an EQ like this. The big tsunamis come when the EQ is a hundred+ km off the east coast.
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:34am
  - mawm
    
    cmm – His comment was probably selected by the BBC to cater for the declining intellect of their listeners/viewers.
    
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    January 2, 2024 2:31pm
kevn

NZ (and Japan of course) are on the Pacific ‘Ring of Fire’. A learned friend told me NZ is one of the newest global land masses. The Southern Alps are being pushed upwards by the two plates every year.
Go on your Alaskan holiday SteveO.
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January 2, 2024 11:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t think Alaska is any safer than NZ or Japan..
  
  *Alaska is home of the the second largest earthquake ever recorded (1964 Great Alaska Earthquake, magnitude 9.2)
  *Alaska has 11 percent of the world’s recorded earthquakes
  *Three of the eight largest earthquakes in the world were in Alaska
  
  https://seismic.alaska.gov/earthquake-risk.html#
  
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  January 2, 2024 11:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I have seen what the 64 earthquake did. Where the rail station now lie is down a hill. It used to be level with the rest of Anchorage. 4th Ave was one hell of a mess.
    The Google machine has many images.
    The ground has small shakes often. Bit like up on NZ central plateau in Turangi (Parents lived there) China cabinet would tingle quite often.
    
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    January 2, 2024 11:42am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Why would this warrant one let alone two downticks?
      
      5 2
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      January 2, 2024 2:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It shows I am on target! According to ClanMcLeod.
        Give it shit Mike, you can do more than 2 downticks!
        
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        January 2, 2024 3:59pm
Paulus

I assume that ANZ Jessica will remain an accredited member of the Parliamentary Press Gallery where she will continue to cohort with Tova and others as before.
Whether ANZ will allow her to spout publically on their behalf needs to be seen.
Remember ANZ CEO is also another woman, hence the appointment.
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January 2, 2024 11:23am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I doubt it. The Press Gallery take their accreditation very seriously, if only to ring-fence the perks.
  
  I suspect JMM cannot believe her luck in landing a corporate gig of this nature (particularly when you consider that her political chums are now toast). I think she’ll shuck off her journalist skin very quickly.
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:54pm
- Nickc2
  
  My bet is that the Opposition will know the intentions of the Baking Industry before the Govt does.
  In other words, Jess will be the Opposition’s Spy in the Banking Industry resulting in a Damehood and Labour Cabinet Position on completion.
  
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  January 2, 2024 2:49pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHFZYnwxzE
The Philippines has choked China and the Paper Dragon is out of options.
Bongbong Marcos has turned out to be a foe that China never wanted. Now even its own backyard i.e. the South China Sea is not its happy hunting grounds. [5:01]
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January 2, 2024 12:05pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h0i9TtTlA4
Florida elected officials quit across the state in light of new law.
In light of a new law taking effect on January 1, 2024, elected officials across the state are stepping down because they believe it is an invasion of privacy. Two have stepped down in Daytona Beach Shores. [3:04]
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January 2, 2024 12:06pm
- Inandout
  
  sun, we can but live in hope our elected officials resign over such matters. Oh wait, List MPs aren’t elected.
  
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  January 2, 2024 12:29pm
  - sungsamning
    
    It’d be nice for them to have list all donations over $1000 on an official website. Then the peasants would be able to see who owns them.
    
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    January 2, 2024 9:05pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Inand: Oh wait, List MPs aren’t elected.
    
    Oh dear…we have had MMP for nigh on 30 years and people still don’t understand how it works. Based on your past comments, I did not think you were one of the ignorant ones. So here’s a wee primer for you and others like you.
    
    Of the two votes you have, the party vote is the all important one – if you don’t like someone or more than one person on the List, don’t give that party your party vote (lots of people vote split for that reason). Vote for the electorate MP you like best, and give your party vote to another party. Or don’t cast a party vote at all – it’s not compulsory.
    
    When all the party votes are tallied and the percentages calculated, seats are allocated in order to make up a parliament that mirrors the party vote percentages. Electorate MP’s are the first off the rank; List MP’s are only required if there aren’t enough electorate MP’s to make up the required percentage. Thus List MP’s are just as “elected” as their electorate fellows.
    
    Please tell me you knew all that…
    
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    January 3, 2024 8:54am
Jack5

Will ACT, NZ First, and the progressive side of National fire up and appoint non-woke people to boards of Government organisations and trusts?

This is a twilight area, with scarce light from the dying print news media. You’ll find as much as is given away. Little else.

In this dim area, activist and other Wokies successfully stalk money and control.

Consider the community trusts that distribute interest income from the legacy of sold-off savings banks. Leave aside whether savings banks used income and capital to boost the housing of the working and lower-middle classes.

An example – the Rata Foundation. It’s original name was the Canterbury Community Trust, the charity arm of the Canterbury Savings Bank. (The organisation says the new name more broadly represents the coverage of the former bank. It included Nelson-Marlbough and the Chatham Islands).

In its 2023 financia year Rata Foundation’s revenue from investments were whacked. They fell 69 per cent. Cash from fund managers fell 34 per cent. The value at year’s end fell from $44,123,000 to $14,1641,000.

At the end of its latest financial year, to 31 March 2023, Rata Foundation had net assets of $629,541,000, compared with $648,288,000 a year earlier.

Grants to community groups totalled $24,779,000 (up from $19,180,000 the previous year). Administration costs was $4,258,000 (up from $3,645,000). “Funds administration and advisory fees” cost an additional $3,526,000 (in line with lower investment returns, down from $4,289,000).

Community trusts do the work of the good in helping scores, even hundreds, of community groups.

However, they have administration costs and employees and investment choices. Without a market organisation’s drive for efficiency to survive, they need many good business people on their trust boards.

ACT, NZ First and progressive National MPs, and their followers, could help by getting more people with business nous elected to these organisations’ boards.
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January 2, 2024 12:29pm
- Jack5
  
  Edit: Rata Foundation had net assets of ~~$629,541,~~ $629,541,000, compared with ~~$648,288~~ $648,288,000 a year earlier.
  
  Sorry! A thousand apologies for being a thousand times wrong.
  
  [Mod – fixed]
  
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  January 2, 2024 2:29pm
thirteenstars

From the Thames-Coromandel District Council website:

Fatal Crash at Te Puru

Te Puru Creek Road is now open. A rāhui will be in place on the entire creek including the mouth from the time of the karakia until the burial of the deceased.

https://www.tcdc.govt.nz/Home

Te Puru is just north of Thames.

Since when did a council pretend to be enforcing a Maori religious rite? It’s the holidays and the *entire* creek, which flows through the seaside community, is supposedly closed?

The TCDC is operating under a conceit of its own making and being deceitful in the process, shown by the language it uses above, which is designed to give the impression that some order is being made which requires compliance, when in fact council has no such authority.

We all respect the pain of a loss, and the privacy of the family, but that is a personal matter and not one that should allow councils to be complicit in banning activities and use of public land for religious reasons.
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January 2, 2024 1:35pm
- Ghost
  
  I’m just going to hijack your post.
  
  I went to the council website in your link, click Facebook and they have opted out of Facebook but keep the link there, but the reason for the hijack
  
  This cost nz tax payers, not ratepayers, $50,000. Wtf. The branding and signage planning has been largely funded by a $50,000 grant from the Ministry of Social Development’s North Island Weather Events Recovery Fund
  
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  January 2, 2024 1:49pm
- thirteenstars
  
  The TCDC Facebook page makes it even more explicit:
  
  A tragic incident occurred last night 30 December where a car crashed in the Te Puru Creek causing death.
  
  The Police are meeting with Ngāti Tamaterā this morning to organise a karakia, the extraction of the car, and a rāhui.
  
  The karakia will be this morning at 10am.
  
  The rāhui (restriction on usage and activities) will be in place on the entire creek including the mouth from the time of the karakia until the burial of the deceased.
  
  We will keep your updated when more information is available (where appropriate.)
  
  https://www.facebook.com/ThamesCoromandelDistrictCouncil/
  
  So the police met with the iwi to “organise” the rahui? Then we are told the rahui will be in place, as if it is somehow connected to the meeting with the police, and we are specifically told that a rahui is a “restriction on usage and activities”.
  
  What other meaning is a person meant to take than to do any activity in the creek during the rahui will be met with official action?
  
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  January 2, 2024 4:26pm
Jack5

An NZ colonial wars day, a national holiday, on the pattern of Anzac Day, is touched on in an article in the Herald today. Even a national tomb of an unknown Land Wars fighter (a Maori one, of course).

The suggestion isn’t far fetched. Memorials to settler soldiers are being moved. There’s a drive to replace towns and streets named after settler soldiers. Like von Tempsky streets, and Hamilton, which few knew was from the name of someone with colonial military connections.

The writer says:

“The issues raised all point to the need for a national policy on the commemoration of the New Zealand Wars – guided by iwi, with critical input from scholars – that enhances community relationships.”

Guided by iwi? Of course. They may have lost most battles, but in NZ the losers write the history.

Critical input from (NZ) scholars? Of course. Bugger all other recognition available for them. Beyond NZ, who gives a rat’s arse about settler-Maori wars nearly two centuries ago?

Enhances community relationships? Maori heroes, settlers bad invaders? Of course not.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/how-do-we-commemorate-the-new-zealand-wars-the-history-of-anzac-day-can-be-a-guide/4DSKZ5ZJQFCITFGQCQRZUGTUKE/
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January 2, 2024 1:55pm
Ghost

It’s strange but it’s almost like something happened late last year that allowed the police to start doing their job again

Four people have been arrested – including a 14-year-old – after Police shut down a large convoy of dirt bike riders blocking intersections and riding on the wrong side of the road in South Auckland.

Police received more than 40 calls from the public reporting the group of riders, who were described as carrying out poor driving behaviour yesterday afternoon.

Article
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January 2, 2024 2:01pm
- greybeard
  
  Very poor hit-rate, given the resources at the Police disposal.
  The reasons for this could be:
  1. The Ferals have better machinery than the police, as they have no restrictive budgets to limit their choice of transport.
  2. Many of the South Auckland police are related to the Ferals.
  
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  January 2, 2024 6:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Was Joan Rivers right?
Just for Mike, MCos, and other non-believers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLkD-zixmPk

Sequel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlIC7QIFwsk
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January 2, 2024 2:45pm
- RichardX
  
  I stand by my comment from yesterday
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/01/general_debate_01_january_2024.html#comment-3493332
  
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  January 2, 2024 3:55pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Quite the stalker aren’t you
    
    8 3
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    January 2, 2024 4:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Ignore him, I do. I assume it’s a him, who knows?
      Has this fantasy that I have a vagina. I wonder why? Something not right with the elevator?
      
      8 4
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      January 2, 2024 4:21pm
      - RichardX
        
        Your comprehension of the written word has failed you as badly as your epistemology.
        
        I did not claim you had a vagina.
        
        I stated “there is as much evidence for Otto’s vagina as there is of Michelle Obama’s cock.”
        
        I do not believe either exists until I am provided sufficient evidence to convince me otherwise.
        
        6 9
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        January 2, 2024 4:36pm
      - marcw
        
        Just as well you didn’t claim he had had an episiotomy – that would have confirmed the diagnosis of the ‘lady parts’.
        
        6 0
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        January 2, 2024 5:30pm
Ghost

Breaking news, politicians and celebrities are disappearing around the world, it is yet unknown what is happening to them, they are just vanishing from the public……. Alien abduction? Kidnapped?

In unrelated news

A New York judge has ordered the public disclosure of the identities of more than 150 people mentioned in a mountain of court documents related to the late-financier Jeffrey Epstein, saying that most of the names were already public and that many had not objected to the release.

Article
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January 2, 2024 3:07pm
rockape

I see stuff has posted an article on dairy tariff free into China. Looking at the accompanying phot, good luck with milking them !
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January 2, 2024 4:13pm
All_on_Red

Apparently the NYT investigation into the Oct 7 atrocities was quite thorough. Contrary to those who claim it never happened.
‘The two-month investigation included interviews with more than 150 witnesses, medical personnel, first responders, soldiers, rape counselors, and government officials, along with the scanning of video footage, photographs and GPS data from cell phones.’
Also viewed was footage from Hamas phones and from what they posted on Social Media.
‘The New York Times said it identified at least seven locations across southern Israel where women and girls were apparently sexually abused or mutilated.’
Also; “We have multiple witnesses for several cases” of sexual abuse, said David Katz, who heads cyber crime at Lahav 433, the Israel Police’s criminal investigation division.

In addition to witness testimony, Katz and police spokespeople said Tuesday, the police have video evidence, testimony from terrorists, and photographs of victims’ bodies that all point toward sexual assault.’
‘The Israel Police screened short clips Tuesday of footage gathered from Hamas bodycams, victim dashboard cameras, social media, and cell phones, showing partially clothed, dead women and charred remains of victims who had been bound before they were burned alive.’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-harrowing-detail-nyt-reports-on-weaponization-of-rape-sexual-violence-on-oct-7/ar-AA1mbafw
https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-start-building-oct-7-rape-cases-focusing-on-footage-and-testimonies/
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January 2, 2024 4:16pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Sadly, there will be Jew haters who will not accept any evidence.
  
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  January 2, 2024 7:11pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    This dude is an example.
    
    Why This Son of an Israeli General is Pro-Palestine | JHS Ep. 927
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L_cTJDqM0E&lc=UgzwMVeR4naeEdOfvsF4AaABAg.9yyXTcC-wSx9z1_m1VNrxh
    
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    January 2, 2024 7:13pm
seismac

Look the thing that best that happened with the election is that we have got back a “BIILLY T JAMES ” with Winstons Party Take a breath and look at having Shane Jones as a spokes man Here we have a Harvard educated man who can entertain us for the next 3 years — I do identify with Kati Tahu Southland and love the idea that the true things that I identify with are part of the new govt
The nonsense that Ngapui represent North Land — They were in Bay of Plenty when the Treaty was signed XXXXXXX
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January 2, 2024 4:54pm
- KiwiSapper
  
  ‘…….. Here we have a Harvard educated man who can entertain us for the next 3 years — ..’
  .
  Oh come on..Harvard is the pits of Woke, so much so that when the One Trick Show Pony fled away from New Zealand, she went to ground and sought refuge there. A clear indication of “Harvard’s ” quality.
  
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  January 2, 2024 8:58pm
Chuck Bird

Some great tennis. Coco Gauff won but she had to work for it.
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January 2, 2024 5:11pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone else see the climate emergency BS on TVNZ tonight? How are EVs that are charged by imported coal that is trucked from Tauranga to Huntly?

I am not going to get rid of my Holden Redline V8 or eat bugs instead of steak.
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January 2, 2024 7:29pm
- newview
  
  Agree Chuck. I wondered who they were playing the Ad for. Most of us are aware of our choices and don’t need to be spoon fed. The worst part for me was the global obligations we are aiming for where some bean counters have come up with a meaningless target that will cost us money on one hand , and watching China India and the US do the opposite on the other. I do understand we will be penalised for missing targets but I don’t like it. It’s just a money go round where wealthy countries can buy their clean emissions. At least National will hopefully use some common sense over this. I’m thinking we are indirectly paying for this BS.
  
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  January 2, 2024 7:55pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “At least National will hopefully use some common sense over this.”
    
    You can live in hope. Luxon believes in a climate emergency. Do you remember how he treated Maureen Pugh?
    
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    January 2, 2024 9:23pm
    - newview
      
      Mmm true.
      
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      January 2, 2024 9:56pm
Albie

Took a long slurp of my G&T and steeled myself for our nightly edited viewing of News First at 5:30 tonight. ( wife insists we don’t cut ourselves off entirely from daily news).
As per usual, Israel’s government was referred to as “right wing”.
What is it with these msm cretins? Did we ever hear a news story over the last 6 years with them referring to Labour as the “left wing”governing party in “Aoteafnroa?
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January 2, 2024 7:35pm
- MCōs
  
  Two points
  There’s no need to refer to the NZ Labour Party as left wing. It’s inferred in the name and only the most disconnected Kiwi wouldn’t know where they sit on the political spectrum
  The coalition headed by PM Netanyahu is hardline right of necessity to make up the numbers
  A good proportion of viewers of whatever Prime is called now probably don’t know that
  
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  January 2, 2024 9:57pm
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Hardly inferred. Most, if not all, of today’s Labour Party have never earned a living from their own muscular effort. For that reason alone the old Labour Party bears very little resemblance to the present one that seems now to be fixated on sexual preference, racial heritage & rewarding the couch-bound.
    
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    January 2, 2024 10:25pm

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