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November 10, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 November 2024

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General Debate

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peterwn

There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth about the NCEA level 2 maths exam with brightest students allegedly unable to handle a curly question. Frankly, I have little sympathy. One teacher said – “Students who attempted this question in the first 15 minutes of their exam would have been impacted for the rest of their three-hour exam, Loss of confidence in maths is a really big deal. Students start second guessing themselves leading to more and more mistakes being made.” Oh for crying out aloud! Don’t the teachers teach the kids ‘exam techniques’ any more? You read through the exam paper and identify the easy, less easy and hard questions. You answer the easy questions first, then the less easy ones. A wise student would flag that question as tricky and leave it until the end. You don’t waste time on a tricky question and screw yourself up psychologically right at the start of the exam. You should be able to clock up half of the marks in a maths exam in a third of the time. When you come to that tricky question you would be past the pass/fail stage and pulling off that question if you can is the cherry on top. The effect of not being able to do that question may mean not getting A+ and that is not the end of the world (unless you are sitting a health science paper to get into medical school or you are aiming to get into Harvard). The Herald published the question of concern (see below) and the answer. I think it is an elegant maths question although the way it is framed requires a bit of thinking around. You need to recognise straight off that 500ml is equivalent to 500cc so you think in terms of centimetres. The teachers are correct in that the calculus involved is outside the syllabus but only by a whisker in my opinion. I am rather rusty on maths now but I was able to answer the question without delving into external sources although I had to admit that it took me an obscenely long time to answer it because I was out of practice.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-level-2-ncea-maths-question-that-knocked-the-confidence-of-our-top-students/QDISMTPN4BDD3OUELHUZ25EFOI/
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November 10, 2024 8:01am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  But the pure math Cambridge exam this year wasn’t in the news ? The whole exam was a nightmare not just one question yet the young people who sat it had to move on and now wait for scaling …
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:09am
- pdm
  
  This confirms my decision to dump maths at the end of primary school 1959.
  
  Core maths has stood me in good stead since then and I have always been able to add, subtract, multiply and divide with the best of my school and workmates over the last 65 years.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:19am
  - peterwn
    
    You must have done ‘core maths’ in years 9 and 10 (3rd and 4th form) and as the name suggests was a simplified curriculum taught in lower academic streams (and educationalists now frown on streaming) where ‘full maths’ would have been excessively challenging. As you said it provided sufficient maths skills to get by in life and for apprenticeships. When electronic calculators became common and cheap, the school where my father taught maths taught ‘core maths’ pupils how to use calculators because that was going to be more beneficial than trying to teach long multiplication and division.
    
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    November 10, 2024 8:32am
    - pdm
      
      You are correct pw – core maths 3rd & 4th forms no maths 5th and 6th forms.
      
      Interesting you mention the introduction of calculators. When I left school I worked at the BNZ and recording of overdrafts was done manually in large registers called Decimal Books (no I don’t know why because it was pounds, shillings and pence then). Every 10 days we had to add the columns and interest was charged 6 monthly or when accounts were closed, which was fairly rare.
      
      In the Waipukurau Branch the Manager (a good guy) would let the female staff add those columns with calculators but we males had to add them manually – discrimination he jokingly asks?
      
      In the 7 or 8 years before branches were computerised I don’t think I ever used a calculator but, change to Decimal Currency on 10 July 1967 did make it quicker and easier.
      
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      November 10, 2024 8:48am
      - peterwn
        
        “…discrimination he jokingly asks?” That is why he was a good guy. At that time females were very much second class employees in banking – suited to accounting machine operation, cashiers and other second tier tasks and that was about it. Male bank officers had priority access to mortgages at favourable rates (they could go to a house auction and bid knowing finance was guaranteed) but not females. In one bank female cashiers could be called out to refill ATM’s after hours (accompanied by security guards). It was fairly lucrative. When male bank officers saw that it was lucrative they successfully lobbied for the work pushing the females to the sideline.
        
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        November 10, 2024 9:33am
      - Flossie
        
        Was that in the days when female bank employees were required to resign once they became engaged to be married?
        
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        November 10, 2024 9:43am
      - pdm
        
        `At that time females were very much second class employees in banking’
        
        `Was that in the days when female bank employees were required to resign once they became engaged to be married?’
        
        Yes pw but not quite Flossie – they had to leave once married.
        – no babies to be born in the banking chamber you know.
        
        The BNZ let go some very good female staff in the early years I worked for them.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:17am
      - Grumpy Silver Top
        
        No one under 50 remembers the level of discrimination that men and women took as normal when I first started work in the 70s. It was normal for single a woman to be asked if she planned to marry in the near future (implication being that married women had babies and stopped work). After a 4 year degree, I don’t think so! However, I did plan to set off on my OE in the next few months. (Sucks to them.) How times have changed. Now men are afraid to express an opinion in case they are ‘triggering’ someone! It makes me very angry. I hope I live to see the pendulum swing back to a level playing field. (Loving the mixed metaphors!)
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:53am
      - Don Beckett
        
        “Now men are afraid to express an opinion in case they are ‘triggering’ someone! ”
        
        Not this Kiwi. 🙂
        
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        November 10, 2024 12:45pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I didn’t find calculus at all easy but post school qualified for the Royal Artillery (an advanced maths qualification) and used school level numeracy skills for all of my 55 years in the workforce. I even taught my kids long division! Best skill? Mental arithmetic. Never used? Sines and cosines etc. Now the calculator on my iPad gets used daily!
    
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    November 10, 2024 8:32am
    - AitchW
      
      Is there any practical application for sine,cosine etc?
      If there is, had they explained it at school it would have made learning it a lot easier!
      
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      November 10, 2024 9:04am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        Astro Navigation. Taking sun and star sights.
        
        Use the Marc St Hilaire formula.
        
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        November 10, 2024 9:34am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes – in building, calculating the rise of the roof by the roof angle & rafter length, and it’s variations.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:10am
      - cmm
        
        Pretty much every connected electronic device uses sines and cosines millions of times a second.
        
        I just designed an electronic circuit that calculates and then multiplies 100 billion sines and cosines a second.
        
        But you are correct, the average person probably has little use of sines, cosines and such on a daily basis.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Having seen examples of core maths I just avoid it.
    Common sense math works for me. In High School I could multiply 4 numbers against 3 numbers in my head. Just use a space in the brain as storage like a calculator has a memory that can be recalled.
    Doesn’t quite work like that for me anymore of course! The basics are still there though.
    
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    November 10, 2024 8:39am
    - Kiwiguy
      
      Not everyone has that ability.
      I know people who can add multiple long multi-digit numbers together in their head, but that’s also rare.
      
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      November 10, 2024 10:09am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        When I say the basics are still there, I mean that I can comprehend if an answer is correct, near correct, or off by a mile.
        That is why I mention the roving decimal point when Labour start talking numbers.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:23am
      - Local Miller
        
        My first job while still in school was in a farm stall that had multiple “cashiers’ but only one cash register. We had to write down the prices of what was bought and add it up on paper ‘in our heads”. Some people used the shop to supply their restaurant and the like, so we often had pretty long lists to add. It did wonders for my mental arithmetic, and helped me get an A in accounting in my last school year. When we home schooled our kids, calculators were only allowed where we would previously have used Log Books. Any one remember these?
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:42pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I’ve still got my log book from school day 1956. 🙂
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:51pm
  - G152
    
    79 for me
    
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    November 10, 2024 8:47am
  - john1234
    
    Trigonometry is essential if you are ever working with dimensions and angles.
    
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    November 10, 2024 5:48pm
  - wrightingright
    
    Completing maths all the way through primary school in the 1950’s means you are better educated at maths than today’s Junior High School students.
    
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    November 10, 2024 6:20pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I didn’t find it easy… I think I’ve rusted up beyond any CRC help.
  
  It looks like Teachers need to tell their “excellent” pupils to become acquainted with problems at a higher level in the curriculum.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:19am
  - peterwn
    
    Yes, it looked like differentiating x² + 2x + 4 is in the curriculum but not the likes of x² + 1/x , despite that you use the same method in both cases.
    
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    November 10, 2024 8:38am
    - Local Miller
      
      This is because the basics are missing. No one knows by rote that 1/x = x^-1 any more.
      Sorry, difficult to do superscripts on my tiny keyboard.
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:44pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        We saw the First Four dividend in the Melbourne Cup and some wondered what it would cost to cover the field.
        I explained that box “x” horses in a fist four would cost x(x-1)(x-2)(x-3). That had everybodies eyes glaze over.
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:52pm
- nz_aj
  
  I thought it was a straight forward question. Pretty sure my maths class was taught sufficiently to answer it in the last term of 5th form.
  Just more evidence of the curriculum dumb down.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:42am
- nova
  
  With the maths problem they gave you the equations for surface area and volume. You needed to realise to combine these equations to get the equation for surface area in terms of the radius. And then critically understand that the minima would happen when the derivative of this was zero. And then know how to differentiate it, which required knowing how to differentiate (1/r). It helped to know that a ml is a cubic centimeter, but if you didn’t and just plugged the numbers in you would get the right answer. A relatively straight forward problem if you had been taught how to use the derivative test to find minima and maxima, but quite a tricky problem if you didn’t know that.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:44am
  - wrightingright
    
    > “A relatively straight forward problem if you had been taught how to use the derivative test to find minima and maxima”
    
    Something every sixth former should know
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:05pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  You could do the 500cc thing, but I would teach them to always convert to SI units (litres and metres). As long as you know that 500ml is 0.5l you will arrive at values for r and h in metres, which you could then express as cm or mm if you wished.
  
  I don’t actually believe they failed due to not having learned sufficient calculus. More likely, they didn’t understand the question, didn’t form a clear plan, or failed to do the algebra correctly.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:47am
  - peterwn
    
    And if you cannot see your way through it to start with, leave it until the end. The odds are your brain will be quietly thinking about it in the background and when you come back to it, things will be much clearer.
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:16am
    - Burtland
      
      this only works if you use the other side of your brain – maybe go do some gardening
      
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      November 10, 2024 9:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Worked for me in exams. Something would annoy me so I leave it and go to the next thing. Come back later when the brain is working in numbers mode.
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:30am
- KH
  
  Could have done that nearly 60 years ago but could not do it just now.
  Probably you have messed up my head for a few days as I dredge and clear out some long disused pathways.
  But that’s a good thing.
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:09am
- Notsofast
  
  The answer seems to be height = diameter.
  This can be figured by thinking of the two extreme examples diverging from this.
  (With hindsight admittedly).
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:19am
- surfing
  
  In your process of self-grandoise, you didn’t even read the article as to why there were complaints .
  
  Since you didn’t read it, I’ll quote it for you from the article …
  
  “The question has been criticised by numerous teachers including a head teacher at a top all-boys school, who said it was outside the scope of students’ learning.
  
  The teacher said the question has a “curriculum level 8 Achievement Objective,” so it is outside of the NZ Curriculum Level 7 Achievement Objectives being assessed”
  
  The subject matter was NCEA 3, not NCEA 2. That’s the issue!
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:31am
  - Burtland
    
    real problems dont come in nice boxes
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:47am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Maybe it was put in there so that the average student scored [the equivalent of] 45-55, not 75.
    
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    November 10, 2024 12:23pm
  - peterwn
    
    As I said initially, outside by a whisker. It would be interesting to know how many kids solved it successfully which presumably would be discussed in the examiners’ report.
    
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    November 10, 2024 12:50pm
  - john1234
    
    This is pathetic. It’s an excellence question and doesn’t need to be answered to earn a pass or merit pass for the exam. It’s supposed to be hard but not impossible. I thought it was spot on.
    
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    November 10, 2024 5:52pm
  - wrightingright
    
    The fact that students and teachers think this extremely easy calculus question is lvl3 difficulty is itself a major problem! wtd
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:08pm
- NothingLeft
  
  This is about the simplest class of real-world problem calculus questions you can ask. Which from memory we were doing at 6th form level in my provincial secondary school in the ’80’s. I haven’t used calculus in decades but this would still only take 2-3 minutes to answer.
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:39pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    These wordy, real-life problems were covered in Applied Maths back in the 1960s… (i.e. this was a separate subject for Bursary/Scholarship exams)
    
    Those heading for Engineering/ Physics type degrees took both Maths & Applied Maths classes.
    
    Those heading for Arts degrees or the Biological sciences usually only took the Maths classes.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:30pm
- Local Miller
  
  LoL, I taught maths back in South Africa in 1980/82, and again in 1986/88, and this was a ver standard question. By the end of what was the equivalent of year 12, I would have expected my students to be able to do that as a matter of course.
  
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  November 10, 2024 1:29pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Regardless whether you got it right or not is intirely different to attempting it with your own methodology.
  Or in other words Critical Thinking. Now that is the real issue here or rather lack of it.
  
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  November 10, 2024 3:27pm
- An Old Kiwi
  
  That exam strategy (of do easy questions first) works when you’re aiming for max marks out of 100.
  But it does not work for NCEA where you have several booklets (usually about 3 or 4 per subject, called Standards). You need to get correct all the easy Qs from a booklet to get even Achieve (& so get the credits associated with that particular Standard).
  My son (who got Scholarship Physics that same year) got “Not achieved” (& thus -no- NCEA L3 credits) for a particular standard because he saw some fun looking hard Qs in that Physics booklet & started doing them (correctly) first. He ran out of time & so didn’t complete all of the easy Qs.
  
  Note: Marking NCEA is different now, in that his correct answers to those hard Qs would have been used to “cover” the easy Qs he missed – and he would have been given Achieved (-think: C) for that Standard (even tho’ his completion of the hardest Qs clearly showed that he was one capable kid).
  
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  November 10, 2024 3:47pm
- wrightingright
  
  Somehow, dealing with a negative sign is “outrageously difficult” and worth a cry over because it “is outside the scope of the curriculum”
  
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  November 10, 2024 6:17pm
Scott

The 2024 election was a massive defeat for identity politics and the Obama coalition of minorities.
Trump gained support in virtually every demographic. We see this in chart 1 –

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/11/the-daily-chart-behind-those-staggering-trump-numbers.php

What especially interested me was chart 2 –
Trump won 74% of white men and 69% of white women. Bearing in mind that white people are still the majority in the USA, how can a party expect to win when almost 3/4 of the white majority don’t vote for them?

And it gets even worse for the Democrats. Chart 2 also shows that Trump got 45% of Latino men and 40% of Latino women!
Trump even won the nation’s single most Hispanic county — 97% Hispanic. That was Starr County, Texas and he won it by 16%!

http://jewishworldreview.com/1124/hammer110824.php

So I suspect the Democrats are going to rethink their open borders if Hispanics are going to vote Trump?

The Great replacement theory is real. Democrats for years have said that changing the population to be more “diverse” will give them a majority forever.

Well that hasn’t worked out for them. Not only do white people vote Republican but increasingly so do Hispanics!

Isn’t it about time the Democrat party changed their policies so they might earn the votes of the people? Instead they opened the borders to change the people. It hasn’t worked. Good! 😎
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November 10, 2024 8:02am
- Handyman
  
  The lesson here is that Trump did not have different policies for each vocal minority segment. He had one set of policies for all Americans based on core values. Guess what? Most Americans want prosperity and safety.
  
  In New Zealand National has been sucked into the “pander to every vocal minority” way for making policy. You hear it most at budget time — “What’s in it for me?”
  Trump changed the paradigm. He framed his policy as safety for your family on the streets, in the gym and on the sports field.
  In New Zealand National would promise more money for police, and get sucked into a fight with the alphabet people over trans rights, so the whole election would be over trans rights and not safety.
  Trump learned to not bother arguing with the biased media and went around them with podcasts etc.
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:23am
  - cmm
    
    The idea that you can have different policies for different people and say different things to different people is extremely outdated.
    
    It probably worked 40 years ago before the internet. It doesn’t work now.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:52am
    - Handyman
      
      I agree it shouldn’t, but Labour created micro ministries for each of their voting blocs to have micro policies for them. For example, why have a Pacifica ministry if the only message is “you have the same rights as all other New Zealanders”.
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:09am
Yvette

Deplatforming David Seymour’s bill

After some back and forth, including an interjection by Luxon’s deputy, Winston Peters, who cited Tā Āpirana Ngata’s thesis, which said Māori ceded sovereignty, Luxon finally said, “Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown.”

And Hipkins asserts they didn’t.

Those are the varying views of two consecutive Prime Ministers and one Acting Prime Minister.

Why then will the vote to continue the Treaty Principles Bill, or deplatform it after sending it to a Committee, be apparently a Party Vote and not a Conscience Vote, as when the decision made will be a little more far reaching than a Conscience Vote on Alcohol?
( – although for some the result may certainly increase the intake of said alcohol )

Labour’s Hipkins told Breakfast this morning: “This is the most radical reinterpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi in over 100 years. Even just getting to this point, where the bill is being introduced as Government policy, has effectively undone decades worth of work to restore the relationship between Māori and the Crown.”

In this case, is identity politics the best way to gauge such a sensationally sensitive issue?
Will a Party Vote accomodate the varying views likely held across Labour for example or does every one of them think as one?

deplatform – to refuse someone an opportunity to make their ideas or beliefs known publicly, because you think these beliefs are dangerous or unacceptable.

Psychologists use the term “gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions.

Will “identity politics” basically “deplatform” this issue and so “gaslight” the whole deal?
– all three? way to treat a decision on a so-called “Founding Document”
Permit a Conscience vote
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November 10, 2024 8:03am
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  David Seymour’s interview with Jenny-May Clarkson has been posted on Bassett, Brash and Hide here: https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-interviewed-by-jenny-may-clarkson-on-tvnz-breakfast-about-the-treaty-principles-bill-i
  (Mod, please shorten the link). J-M C was poured right back into her bottle, several times. Go David Seymour!
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:59am
  - Jack5
    
    Great performance by David Seymour. Well worth watching at the link on the post above.
    
    His bill will allow New Zealanders to have a say. What’s important now is that citizens get easy access to those submissions. The Leftist State TV and radio and the subsidised newspapers won’t provide fair and free coverage.
    
    This bill reminds us what Seymour was trying to do by his attempt to block gun law reform being rushed through in 2019 after the mosques massacres. The rush blocked a process of submissions from groups and individuals.
    
    Seymour at the time blamed Ardernists for taking advantage of him being occupied with an impromptu press conference and rushing the legislation through without submissions. His single vote would have blocked this.
    
    Some of us have suspected, fairly or not, that pressure from ACT’s senior ally, National, may have played a part in blocking Seymour’s attempt for a rational gun review.
    
    Seymour’s attempt for submissions on guns:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/act-leader-david-seymour-misses-chance-to-force-govt-to-use-urgency-for-gun-laws-first-reading/RQQ25A6YDHME3MVM5PHX5DOGE4/
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:19pm
artemisia

All police leave cancelled in case the hikoi turns ugly. I guess they sign up to it, but won’t be too happy at the cancelled family holidays. Not to worry, instead they will get plenty of opportunities to follow the lead of the police at Ihumatao and offer a few waiata. Maybe more than one will bring a guitar this time.
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November 10, 2024 8:10am
- pdm
  
  But, but, Arty – what if Police follow the lead from the recent Opotiki raids and Police the Hikoi properly.
  
  Rawiri and Debbie will be very upset you know.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:21am
- peterwn
  
  They should keep the protesters (especially their vehicles) out of the north end of Lambton Quay (outside Parliament) and Molesworth St and make sure buses can get through. Molesworth St has already been walloped hard with cycle lanes.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:43am
  - Mike
    
    You don’t think the protestors plan to stop at parliament forever, like the smelly 2022 rabble?
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:13am
    - PurplePen
      
      Well no. They’ll run out of annual leave and need to get back to work soon enough.
      
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      November 10, 2024 9:57am
      - pdm
        
        A Hikoi and annual leave?
        
        Surely you jest.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:23am
      - RalphT
        
        To have annual leave don’t you have to have a job?
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:23am
      - alwyn.a
        
        That’s very old fashioned RalphT.
        I have heard people talk about getting their wages when what they mean is that they are collecting a benefit.
        This talking about Annual Leave when you don’t have a job isn’t really any different.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:48am
    - Sparrow
      
      Mike, Have a question. Do you personally know or met any of the ” smelly rabble” ?
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:51am
      - Mike
        
        Yes
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:04pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      While it did seem like the smelly rabble would be there forever – or an ardernity – in 2022, we are now quite relieved to see that most of the smelliest: Ardern, Robertson, Mallard, Woods, have departed. A few stinky remnants have clung on but such is the nature of parliament.
      
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      November 10, 2024 12:21pm
    - Individual Responsibility
      
      [Mod – debate the topic not the person]
      
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      November 10, 2024 4:07pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      They’ll probably eventually move on like the shitty granny puncher rabble at Albert Park Mike.
      
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      November 10, 2024 5:51pm
    - john1234
      
      Deplorables. Garbage. Smelly rabble. The USA liberals just tried that and got smashed. Mike, like most lefties is a very, very slow learner.
      
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      November 10, 2024 5:56pm
      - Mike
        
        It’s a great lesson Trump gave in never insulting his opponents.
        
        0 3
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        November 10, 2024 6:39pm
      - john1234
        
        Trump insults his opponents but never the voters Mike. See the difference?
        
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        November 11, 2024 8:52am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    They should encourage the hikoi to park their vehicles on the Molesworth St cycleway, because it’s much less used than the road.
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:17am
    - AitchW
      
      Isn’t a hikoi a march? Surely if you’re marching from Northland to Wellington you don’t need a car?
      Or is this just another Clayton’s hikoi where they drive from town to town, only getting out to disrupt those working for a living?
      
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      November 10, 2024 5:35pm
  - G152
    
    They should park all protesters vehicles in Auckland
    
    6 0
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    November 10, 2024 1:12pm
    - Mike
      
      You don’t think the police will offer them free parking at the stadium, like in 2022?
      
      5 8
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      November 10, 2024 1:21pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Given the state of Molesworth Street now they probably won’t get to Parliament.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:26pm
Bridgenag

FEMA’s Response and the Hurricanes of 2024
Updates, yet more federal corruption, and examples of effective volunteerism making a difference.

“A FEMA supervisor told workers in a message to “avoid homes advertising Trump” as they canvassed Lake Placid, Florida to identify residents who could qualify for federal aid, internal messages viewed by The Daily Wire reveal. The supervisor, Marn’i Washington, relayed this message both verbally and in a group chat used by the relief team, multiple government employees told The Daily Wire. ”

Great video about Nth Carolina

https://www.malone.news/p/femas-response-and-the-hurricanes?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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November 10, 2024 8:13am
Chuck Bird

The continuation of the racist Maori seats is wrong and must change. I am disappointed that Act or NZF have pushed for a referendum on this.

I am thinking of starting a Petition to Parliament starting as follows.

Petition request

That the House of Representatives initiates a binding referendum on the continuation of the separate Maori seats in Parliament.

Petition reason

The current Maori Party is different and more divisive than the Maori Party in the Sir John Key government. This government has a Cabinet where 35% of the Ministers are Maori. In a future government, a Maori Party could still exist but to achieve the 5% the party would have to be more conciliatory.

Who thinks this a good idea and would sign it?

Petitions to Parliament can be signed electronically.
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November 10, 2024 8:13am
- Dave
  
  I would refuse to sign it, even though I think racially exclusive electorates are a very bad idea.
  
  One of the petition reasons makes it clear that, at least in part, this proposed constitutional change is a specific attack on the Maori Party for having opinions and policies you disapprove of. That will boost racial paranoia and antagonism.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:38am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  I do agree the seats should not exist. But the 5% is too high anyway. And it’s better to have the extremists all in one known place, rather than spread out and contaminating other parties.
  
  So I don’t think think they are a big deal. The main problem is the overhang which breaks proportionality, and the calculation method where Maori seats have fewer eligible voters, meaning more of those seats, and more chance of overhang.
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:57am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Nigel, the overhang is one reason I am thinking of starting my petition. However, many people do not understand the overhang, so I did not include it as a reason.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:10am
- Taieri
  
  The idea is good, but your wording in “Petition reason” is poor.
  
  Of course the present Maori party is different from the one in John Key’s days, even its name is different but so what? In the ideal world there should be no place for the ethnicity-based parties, but we don’t live in the ideal world. So, should the ethnicity-based parties be made illegal? If so, on what grounds?
  
  What is the relevance of the percentage of “Maori ministers” in the present government to the existence of the separate Maori seats? The Maori seats should be abolished because Maoris have exactly the same political rights as all other New Zealanders, not because of the “35% of the Ministers…”
  
  Finally, whether a party is conciliatory or not is neither here nor there. It’s up to the voters to decide whether it’s worth voting for and that alone will determine what percentage of support it might ultimately achieve. We may not like it but it is what it is.
  
  Te Pāti Māori in it’s present form is an abomination, but it’s legal under the current NZ law and the standards of behaviour of its MPs should also be enforced under the provisions of the NZ law. Why aren’t they then?
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:00am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “So, should the ethnicity-based parties be made illegal? If so, on what grounds?”
    
    No. But they should have to reach the 5% threshold like other parties. I think they could if they altered their behavior like not calling a submitter a fucking racist.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:14am
    - alwyn.a
      
      Every single one of the Maori Party seats is because they won an electorate.
      What are you going to do? Tell the people in the Electorate that they can’t have a representative for the next three years?
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:52am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        That makes no sense. All those registered on the Maori roll would just transfer to the general roll at the election at which the Maori seats were abolished.
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:07pm
      - alwyn.a
        
        @BY.
        I wasn’t talking about what would happen if the Maori seats were abolished. I was talking to Chuck’s statement “No. But they should have to reach the 5% threshold like other parties.”
        That is the clause that you don’t get any list seats unless you get 5% or win an electorate. Well they don’t have any list seats. If you want to reduce the number of seats they currently get back to the number their party vote entitled them to, or back to zero if they get less than 5% which may be what he is saying, you have to prevent some of their electorate MPs from taking their seat.
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:22pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Thanks for clarifying but I still don’t understand.
        
        If the Maori seats were abolished, the Maori would just be like all the other political parties. The party would need to win an electorate or get 5 percent to make it to Parliament.
        
        What an I missing?
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:17pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Yes. There would be no racist Maori electorate. The Maori Party could still stand in a general seat. If they win an electorate seat they could bring more MPs in which is the case with all other parties.
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:19pm
  - pdm
    
    Maybe the solution is to encourage more parties based on ethnicity eg:
    Chinese
    Indian
    Afghan
    Irish
    Scottish
    Welsh
    Dutch
    etc etc etc
    
    All seeking 5% of the Party Vote.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:28am
    - Flossie
      
      How about Mixed Race Party? They would bolt in!
      
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      November 10, 2024 10:54am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Perhaps – The Anglo-Saxon Party.
        but the best would be,
        One Nation Party like Pauline Hansen. 🙂
        
        9 2
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        November 10, 2024 11:22am
    - Sparrow
      
      English ?
      
      4 0
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      November 10, 2024 11:55am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I support the petition, but not for the reason outlined. TPM are welcome to advance their divisive ideas (short of advocating violence), but the Maori seats screw the scrum. MMP means that racial preference is unnecessary, as evidenced by the number of Maori MPs.
  
  And, I’m pretty sure that parliamentary seats just for Maoris appear nowhere in the Treaty.
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:23am
- PurplePen
  
  Shouldn’t need a referendum. It just needs government to abolish the seats as was recommended for MMP by the 1985 Royal Commission and also since universal suffrage a 100 or so years ago negated the original reason for establishing the seats in the first place. I do wonder if it might be an ACT policy for the next election once they’ve dealt with the Principles issue.
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:02am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    One reason I propose a referendum is that a change of government could bring them back. Another is that I believe matters related to voting should go to a referendum, like increasing the term to four years.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:45am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Just a question. What is the legal mechanism that would bind a future government to abide by a referendum? What if in the future, a government decided to simply reintroduce the Maori seats? Is there legal mechanism to prevent that outcome?
      
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      November 10, 2024 10:51am
      - Ghost
        
        There is nothing. A future government does not have to agree to what was voted in a binding referendum. Really is just a waste of time and money. Labour can get in and bring it back no matter what was voted for.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:55am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Binding referenda should require a super majority to overturn.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:23am
      - zulumonster
        
        There is nothing stopping a future government overturning it, but they would be taking quite a risk (depending on the extent of the referendum majority) in going against the will of the people.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:33am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Binding referenda should require a super majority to overturn.”
        
        There is no such thing as a “binding referendum” in New Zealand. Unlike Australia where referendums on the Constitution are binding because the constitution says so. In Australia, it is the job of the High Court to enforce compliance with the constitution.
        
        I have little doubt that a referendum on the Maori seats would vote for their abolition by about 60 / 40. I also have little doubt that the next socialist government will change things back.
        
        Hence my question to Chuck. Otherwise a “binding” referendum is no such thing and a waste of time.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:53am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        It would more likely be 80:20 than 60:40!
        
        5 0
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        November 10, 2024 12:24pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There is no way that it would be 80:20. All Green supporters, maybe two thirds of Maori and about half of labour voters would not support a referendum. It might even be 55/45.
        
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        November 10, 2024 12:37pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        BY, the court of public opinion especially if there is a high vote in favour.
        
        In regards to a binding referendum any government-initiated binding referendum, the government has gone along with the vote. Examples are the flag and our MMP voting system twice.
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:14pm
      - Ghost
        
        You mean the same court of public opinion that the left ignored constantly under ardern. You’re dreaming if you think the left wouldn’t reinstate the Maori seats. There is only one way to remove them and that is by Maori deciding it’s time to do so
        
        3 1
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        November 10, 2024 1:16pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Chuck you are dreaming. You have just admitted that there is no such thing in New Zealand as a “binding” referendum.
        
        A Labour Green government would introduce Co governance and explain that the referendum was not compliant with the Treaty and so was invalid.
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:21pm
      - PurplePen
        
        You would think that if votes were anything like 60 for 40 against or higher that any government that overturned the legislation resulting from the referendum would be out at the next election. So in a way it would be binding. It’s a little bit like the whole no nukes issue.
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That would get ACT a lot of votes, candidate and Party.
    
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    November 10, 2024 11:36am
- cmm
  
  Dreams are free.
  
  There has been no justification for Maori seats since 19 December 1879 with the introduction of universal male suffrage.
  
  Nobody has done anything about it in 145 years.
  
  They are very unlikely to do anything now.
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:55am
- artemisia
  
  Petitions Committee staffers review submitted petitions and provide feedback if needed. I found them helpful with wording and content before submitting.
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:59am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Correct.
    
    2 2
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    November 10, 2024 1:08pm
  - PurplePen
    
    If nothing else, it might bring the discussion into the public arena which wouldn’t be a bad thing.
    
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    November 10, 2024 2:52pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  I support the abolition on the basis that we shouldn’t have race based criteria, particularly when the system is already achieving a high degree of proportionality.
  
  The Māori seats are required by TPM to minimise the voice of the wrong type of Māori.
  
  I agree with the comment from Dave that targeting TPM is unwise. Just base it on the fact we already have a system that works for Māori representation without the Māori electorates.
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:29pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “I agree with the comment from Dave that targeting TPM is unwise. Just base it on the fact we already have a system that works for Māori representation without the Māori electorates.”
    
    That is a point worth considering.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:16pm
Yvette

Why is a Treaty of Waitangi between Maori and the Crown deemed to be a founding document for a nation which includes a few other people now who are neither Maori or the Crown?
Obviously NOT MY TREATY
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November 10, 2024 8:19am
- Bridgenag
  
  Seymour was so good in this interview[ mentioned before]
  
  https://youtu.be/siqy_IOY2Ws?si=a7jPqzyJmT1lLazQ
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:54am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would say that Clarkson will never interview Seymour on live TV again.
    
    10 2
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    November 10, 2024 11:46am
    - David Garrett
      
      No, fair play to that interviewer…she allowed him to answer without talking over him as Vance or that other Irish bint would have…cant remember her name just now…even though she clearly disagreed with everything he said
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:13pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        No DG, she tried to overtalk David Seymour but he was having none of it.
        The idea for Clarkson was to diver, where David continues to answer the previous subject.
        Typical TV1 lefties.
        
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        November 10, 2024 6:45pm
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    He was superb, long may it continue. Lovely to see an antagonistic interviewer defused (emasculated?).
    
    12 1
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    November 10, 2024 12:05pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Only men can be emasculated – having their masculinity debased. 🙂
      
      4 1
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      November 10, 2024 12:49pm
      - zulumonster
        
        Are you assuming Clarkson’s gender?
        
        3 1
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        November 10, 2024 1:15pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        😆
        
        3 1
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        November 10, 2024 1:57pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      ? spayed
      
      7 1
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      November 10, 2024 1:38pm
- Mike
  
  It is a foundational document in an evolving NZ constitution. Like those of many countries, NZ’s constitution is founded on a mix of declarations, treaties, laws and conventions. You might like to read some helpful books on this. Perhaps Scott’s New Zaland Constitution (a bit dated now, perhaps), Joseph’s Constitutional and Administrative Law in New Zealand, Palmer & Knight’s Constitution of New Zealand – A Contextual Analysis, and Fletcher’s English Text of the Treaty of Waitangi would be helpful for you to answer the question more fully.
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:01am
  - Cassandra
    
    It’s a simple document and the history is straightforward. No need to muddy the waters.
    
    13 2
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    November 10, 2024 10:20am
    - Mike
      
      How about you answer Yvette’s question, if it’s so straightforward?
      
      1 20
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      November 10, 2024 10:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Good diversion Mike.
        There are 3 Articles. That is all that matters. As Cassandra says, no need to muddy the waters.
        How the Waitangi Tribunal can make up so much rubbish from 3 simple Articles is beyond me.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:50am
      - Mike
        
        So no need for Act’s bill then, if it’s so straightforward?
        
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        November 10, 2024 12:09pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Basically nailing down the very obvious definitions Mike, as you well know, so you and your buddies can’t pretend it’s a moving feast of ever expanding bullshittery and grifting.
        
        6 1
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        November 10, 2024 4:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        NZer In Exile,
        Good term — “Feast” because that is all it is. Extraction of dollars from the Net Taxpayer.
        
        2 0
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        November 10, 2024 6:50pm
    - Nobby2
      
      Cassandra, You are right that it is a simple document. The problems with it have arisen because the waitangi tribunal and court judges have invented so many “principles” that are intended to suit their woke agenda’s. Therefore the simplicity of the original document and its easy to understand meaning has been bastardised by the radicals, judges and all the other woke pricks trying to put their spin on it to support their view of what they want it to mean.
      
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      November 10, 2024 12:37pm
  - Yvette
    
    Mike, even if I have read the books you list and more, but think as the late Maori King said “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it.” and add, as he at that point didn’t, that the Treaty is between the Crown and Maori, as there was no signatory representing any other party – see, simple.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:15pm
    - Mike
      
      That might not be the profound point you imagine it to be. But I’m glad you agree that Seymour’s bill is irrelevant and pointless.
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:34pm
      - Yvette
        
        It was the the late Maori King who said “There’s no principles, the Treaty is written. That’s it” – which is contrary to the mid 70s introduction to legislation of ‘Principles’, which David Seymour and many others would now like defined clearer, so his bill is not irrelevant and not pointless, but needed, unfortunately.
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:07pm
    - Ghost
      
      And all those other people are represented by the crown
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:40pm
      - Yvette
        
        It seems the reference is “… ki ana mea ki nga tangata o Ingarani” – ‘… the people of England’
        
        3 1
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        November 10, 2024 4:13pm
bythesea

School Phone ban – any anecdotes or data about how it has been going?

I am expecting good outcomes after reading Jon Haidt articles on it, but reality on the ground is what matters.
eg https://www.afterbabel.com/p/phone-free-schools

A month ago there was this article, but it’s not very informative (mostly outlier complaints, few positives)
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/27/five-months-into-the-school-phone-ban-heres-how-students-are-finding-it/

Prof Haidt research was looking at anxiety / mental health in children over the years with a large and increasing uptick in the smartphone era.

He wrote “Coddling of the American Mind” with Greg Lukianoff
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November 10, 2024 8:28am
- imalwaysright
  
  Have heard of kids using smart watches.
  Have also heard of the weaker teachers letting kids have their phones if they behave. That’s probably an improvement because the same teachers were previously handing out NCEA points for the same reason!
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:57pm
cas

Imagine what our relationship with America would be if Nanaia was still our Foreign Minister not Winston.
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November 10, 2024 8:39am
- imalwaysright
  
  “Complex”.
  
  Nania’s favourite word.
  
  (Everything was complex to Nania, except for approving invoices…)
  
  15 1
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  November 10, 2024 10:21am
  - lifesgood
    
    It would appear that ironing clothes was too complex.
    
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    November 10, 2024 2:45pm
Flossie

As has been pointed out already by others the “interview” (about the Treaty bill) by Jenny May Clarkson of David Seymour on TVNZ Breakfast the other day was shameful.
There’s a piece on Bassett Brass and Hide also saying this…can’t do links sorry. I quote it “is a disgrace to our public media that Jenny-May Clarkson took a one-eyed activist stance in this Breakfast TV interview”.
I say it is a disgrace that she is allowed to do interviews full stop.
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November 10, 2024 8:45am
- pdm
  
  Floss we never watch breakfast so no comment on your last sentence.
  
  I have seen the Seymour interview though and he well and truly put her in her place,
  
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  November 10, 2024 8:52am
  - AitchW
    
    I never watch breakfast tv either, some of us work for a living! I did see some of the interview and the look on Clarkson’s face when Seymour pulled her up on her appalling bias was priceless.
    I suspect that she’s unaccustomed to being put in her place.
    If only more interviewees would do the same.
    
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    November 10, 2024 9:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Needs to be more of “YOU ARE FAKE NEWS!”
      
      9 4
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      November 10, 2024 9:55am
- Grunter
  
  Seymour is doing a great job in these interviews. It shows up just how shallow and brainwashed the counter arguments are. They have nothing to counter Seymour’s logic, zero, zip.
  
  If Luxon ever had the balls to debate Seymour he would look just as silly as the face tattooed ex netballer!
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:14am
  - PurplePen
    
    Seymour also remains calm, rational and professional throughout.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:05am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is a great thing he has. Never loses his rag.
      
      14 2
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      November 10, 2024 11:52am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Definitely a huge asset when dealing with irrational and emotion-driven zealots.
      
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      November 10, 2024 5:57pm
  - Kiwiguy
    
    Yes, I notice the counter arguments always descend into petty and inflammatory name-calling. That tells me a lot.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:11am
- Burtland
  
  politician 1 netballer 0
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:03am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  TVNZ news last night didn’t disappoint either – young Maori female ‘journalist’ reporting on the death of an elderly Maori gentleman who fought in the war … had to put the knife in about how he faced racism on returning from war … not even sure this is true and who verified it? Why did it need to be mentioned???
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:11am
  - Cassandra
    
    Note that there was no knighthood and wailing when the last survivor of 22 Battalion, 3 Field Regiment, 6 Squadron RNZE, etc etc, died.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:23am
  - pdm
    
    She did that in announcing his Death Friday evening too.
    
    She is the one that made us switch to watching the weather on 3 because of the often incomprehensible New Zealand place names she came up with.
    
    Seems she is now TVNZ’s Maori expert reporter.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:34am
  - Mike
    
    That Maori soldiers faced racism and discrimination on returning from both world wars is well documented.
    
    5 17
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    November 10, 2024 12:12pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      That white people, and anyone else in NZ who aren’t maori, face racism is also well documented.
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:02pm
      - Jack5
        
        Maori soldiers received at least one priority in World War 2.
        
        About 6,000 NZ veterans from the early, tough stages of the war – Greece and Crete, North Africa – were returned home on leave in 1944.
        
        Those exempted from returning to the European war were: men who had also fought in World War 1; those still unfit from wounds; Maori soldiers.
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:37pm
      - AitchW
        
        When I arrived in NZ from the UK in 1974 I attended briefly a small rural school in Northland. The only racism I faced there was from Maori kids of all ages.
        Including physical violence.
        
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        November 10, 2024 5:41pm
    - fernglas
      
      I don’t know why you are getting downticks for stating the truth, Mike. In the mid 50’s my father was having a beer in the club in a King Country town after a Maori All Black game when the manager of the team, a decorated and later knighted Maori knocked on the window and asked him to go and grab somebody who was there. Dad told him to come in and get him himself. He said he couldn’t; the staff wouldn’t let him in because he was Maori. Anybody who denies the racism of the past is deluded. The question now is how to deal with it in the present.
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:11pm
      - Mike
        
        Inextricably linked to power. So, when marginalized groups gain some power, they are often accused of being the real racists.
        
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        November 10, 2024 1:26pm
      - Jack5
        
        Would the incident mentioned by Fernglas in his 1.11pm post above be related to this, as reported in the NZ Encyclopedia (Te Ara):
        
        Following a visit by temperance campaigners, King Country Māori requested a ban on liquor sales in their area, as provided for by the Licensing Act 1881. In 1884 the King Country consequently became New Zealand’s first major dry district.
        
        And …
        
        In 1895 Parliament prohibited Māori women from buying alcohol unless they were married to a European. From 1904 Māori men in most parts of the North Island were prohibited from purchasing takeaway liquor.
        
        Discrimination against Maori drinking was part of the national prohibition mood.
        
        For example, most entertainments were banned from bars and in 1893 most women who were not already licensed were barred from holding liquor licences. A 1910 law banned new barmaids and further restricted drinking hours.
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:46pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        And who gets to define who isn’t and is part of “marginalized groups”?
        
        As Jordan Peterson would say, “the last people on earth you would want to be making those decisions”.
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:58pm
    - Jigsaw
      
      And yet not a single word uttered in any of our news channels that in both WW1 and WW2 Maori were exempt from conscription.
      FACT.
      This is relevant as Princess Te Pua said Tainui would not serve in WW2 and yet the Maori ‘Queen’ has just been to Rotorua to pay tribute to the dead ex-soldier…hypocrisy anyone?
      
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      November 10, 2024 2:50pm
      - Jack5
        
        From the Government’s NZ History web site, on World War 1:
        
        “Many Māori from Taranaki and Tainui-Waikato resisted the call to fight for ‘King and Country’. Their land had been confiscated in the 1860s as punishment for ‘rebellion’ against the British Crown. Why should they now be expected to fight for the British?
        
        And mentioning Maori MPs Sir Maui Pomare and Sir Āpirana Turupa Ngata:
        
        When conscription for military service was introduced in 1916 it was initially imposed on Pākehā only. Pōmare and Ngata wanted it applied to Māori as a matter of self-respect. Māori blood had been spilt overseas, and Māori had a duty to respond; utu was required.
        
        https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/first-world-war/conscientious-objection/maori-objection
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:49pm
  - Ghost
    
    It’s true and she knows about it because he talked about it as well as some RSA not allowing Maori battalion members in.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:12pm
    - G152
      
      The RSA did not and does not allow Europeans to join for various reasons
      
      3 3
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      November 10, 2024 1:18pm
      - Mike
        
        RSA membership criteria have varied over time.
        
        3 5
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        November 10, 2024 1:36pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Would that be a blanket ban on anyone from MB, or just one or two who are off the rails behaviour wise?
      
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      November 10, 2024 4:59pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Close Hen: I’m afraid we must accept that Maori returned men were treated shamefully after both World Wars…as the late Sir Robert (RIP) said quite correctly, as just one example, pakeha soldiers who had been farmers were entitled to enter a ballot for a “rehab farm”, Maori former soldiers were not.
    
    I was shocked and ashamed to see Sir Robert quoted as saying that some RSA’s didn’t allow Maori ex soldiers in…that is utterly disgraceful especially given that the Maori battalion suffered much greater casualties than the rest of the 2nd NZEF
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:24pm
    - Mike
      
      The RSA had a particularly shameful record, especially in denying their own president, Sir Howard Kippenberger when he dared to question the rugby union’s acceptance of apartheid in 1949.
      
      4 6
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      November 10, 2024 1:30pm
      - Jack5
        
        Bigots ruled some of the RSA branches.
        
        Initially, World War 1 club members resented the incoming World War 2 veterans, just as some of the latter later resented Vietnam veterans.
        
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        November 10, 2024 2:15pm
      - Mike
        
        Kippenberger was forced to apologize for being mean to the Jaapies. Apparently, he should have forgiven the brigadier who told him, at
        Alamein, that the South African ambulances would not be available for Māori casualties.
        
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        November 10, 2024 3:09pm
    - Jack5
      
      After World War 1, Maori may not have been included in veteran land settlement, but nor were most former soldiers.
      
      Of those who were, most went broke. In the World War 1 scheme, veterans were put on land with little or no support for stocking or working capital. In the tough early 1920s most ended up walking off the land.
      
      The Government could have run a good scheme for Maori Battalion veterans in both wars by helping with stock and cash for farming tribal communal land.
      
      Re DG’s comment on Maori Battaltion casualties. These were high (at least on Western army basis). Of the 3600 men who served in the Maori Battalion 649 were killed. The NZ Army as a whole lost 6,793 killed.
      
      The NZ Air Force lost 4,149, the Navy 573, and the Mercantile Marine 110. There were proportionally few Maori in the Air Force, Navy, and on merchant ships.
      
      https://teara.govt.nz/files/3_580_wars_casualtieswwii.pdf
      
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      November 10, 2024 2:08pm
    - Flossie
      
      I’m not sure that is true. The father of my friend was indeed in a farm ballot and got a farm. He was also high up in his tribe.
      
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      November 10, 2024 2:11pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Flossie : Your friend’s father was lucky. I can assure you most Maori farmer ex soldiers weren’t included…which of course is shameful, as I have already said
        
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        November 10, 2024 3:11pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Maybe it was considered that much Maori land held in communal ownership was not being utilised – but I don’t know – just a thought.
        
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        November 10, 2024 3:26pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You can see the interview on this site:
  
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-interviewed-by-jenny-may-clarkson-on-tvnz-breakfast-about-the-treaty-principles-bill-i
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:38am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  For me Seymours handling of that interview was right up there with John Key ripping John Campbell a new one, pure joy. Campbell surrounded by notes on myriad pieces of paper, Key just talking with all his facts in his head.
  
  On another note, i always expect a TV repeater to be a one eyed activist, so JMCs approach was not surprising.
  
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  November 10, 2024 2:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Pelosi drafting Articles of Impeachment. Reasons are not necessary

https://babylonbee.com/news/nancy-pelosi-begins-drafting-articles-of-impeachment?
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November 10, 2024 8:52am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Can she please just F off now?
  
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  November 10, 2024 5:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Nation is healing.
9 things have happened since Trump won.

https://babylonbee.com/news/the-nation-is-healing-9-miraculous-events-since-trump-won-the-election?
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November 10, 2024 8:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

What to do after a toddler counts to 3.

https://babylonbee.com/news/parent-scientists-announce-theyre-very-close-to-determining-what-the-heck-youre-supposed-to-do-after-youve-counted-to-three?
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November 10, 2024 9:02am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Steve
  I’m very glad that by your repeated links to the Babylon Bee you have recognized that Kiwiblog is NZ’s premier comedy site.
  Could we have more of Julian Batchelor’s hilarious Stop Co-governance rambles as well, please?
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Julian Batchelor’ posts are now coming every 4 to 9 days.
    It is a pity you have no sense of humour.
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:00am
    - Mike
      
      That’s very unkind. A lot of comments here make me laugh.
      
      5 25
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      November 10, 2024 10:02am
      - Cassandra
        
        And you’d be in stitches while reading your great mate Bomber. Although typing while confined by a straight-jacket is an accomplishment.
        
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        November 10, 2024 10:27am
      - Mike
        
        Wh0 is Bomber?
        
        1 18
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        November 10, 2024 10:48am
      - Jack5
        
        Mike/Milky postures:
        
        A lot of comments here make me laugh.
        
        😂😂
        
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        November 10, 2024 3:04pm
  - Jigsaw
    
    You must have the world’s oddest and weirdest sense of humour. I don’t find tribal take-over a humourous matter. How do you figure that?
    
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    November 10, 2024 2:55pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    You really have quite a bee in your bonnet about KB hey Mike?
    
    Sad. Life is short.
    
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    November 10, 2024 5:04pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  In my house the ‘conversation’ was: “If you don’t (insert goal here) by the time I count ….. then no bedtime story.” Discover a treat that your child values highly and you only have to fulfill the terms of the contract once or twice.
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:10pm
Grunter

TheUK Labour Govt are sihtting bricks on how to approach Trump. Starmer and his Marxist mates have called Trump a racist, a Nazi, a KKK supporter, etc. Their party cohorts also actively campaigned in the US for Harris (blatant election interference).

Meanwhile, the German Govt is falling to bits, Macrons France is a failing State, who does that leave……?

Europe/UK is heading for a very bad time IMO
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November 10, 2024 9:21am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Europe/UK/Ireland are heading for a Civil War between the Indigenous population and immigrants who want to live in peace and the Illegal Invaders. They are not just Islamic either. UK gangs are now run by Albanians!!!
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:40am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Islam is by far the majority religion in Albania.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Albania
    
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    November 10, 2024 10:32am
    - Swifty
      
      It’s easy to overlook that the Ottoman Empire extended right into modern Europe, consuming peoples and lands Westward including Greece and Yugoslavia etc.
      
      Albania was occupied for centuries.
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:08am
      - Don Beckett
        
        As was most of Spain – but not by the Ottomans – Sardinia & parts of Italy for a while until they were driven out, particularly after the Battle 0f Lepanto, then the Battle of Vienna – plus a couple of other notable battles.
        
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        November 10, 2024 11:27am
    - Jack5
      
      And Albania’s also the country the New Zealand Communist Party aligned with in the last years of the local party’s life.
      
      First, the Auckland communists (and they were overwhelmingly Aucklanders) ditched support for the Soviet Union for China in the 1960s. Then they ditched Maoist China for Envir Hoxha’s Albania.
      
      According to the link below, New Zealander June Taylor became the English-language voice of Albania’s Radio Tirana, and she announced the death of Hoxha to the world in 1987. Taylor apparently got into trouble for playing Tom Jones on Radio Tirana, which she had justified because Jones was a miner’s son.
      
      “Hoxha-ism” reduced Islamic power in Albania, which was Communist and officially atheist from 1946 until about 1990.
      
      The CIA World Factbook puts the current proportion of Muslims in Albania at 56.7 per cent.
      
      https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/08/27/the-nz-woman-who-became-the-voice-of-communist-albania/
      
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      November 10, 2024 11:28am
- Bridgenag
  
  Don’t need a war to take over a country today.
  
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  November 10, 2024 9:56am
- imalwaysright
  
  “Their party cohorts also actively campaigned in the US for Harris”
  
  Correct, imagine if Putin sent 100 staff to help Trump.
  
  https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/10/17/the-british-are-coming-u-k-labour-party-sends-100-staff-to-assist-kamala-harris/
  
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  November 10, 2024 10:32am
- mogg
  
  Despite numerous insulting and childishly stupid comments from Labour ministers like Big Ange and
  know-nothing Lammy, a senior figure in Trump’s inner circle has said that the UK can still expect to be left out of the new tariffs on European imports. It seems that Labour are not completely stupid see how quickly they have complied with Trump’s defence spending demands.
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:13am
  - Conservatarian
    
    UK Foreign Secretary (until 20 Jan 2025) David Lammy is a genuine midwit and due to this he is a senior figure in Starmer’s wildly unpopular regime.
    
    His appearance on Mastermind in 2009 is the stuff of legends. He answered that:
    
    – The 2003 Rose Revolution took place in Yugoslavia;
    – Marie Antoinette won the Nobel Prize; and, the cherry on top
    – Henry VII succeeded Henry VIII
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10276977/David-Lammys-unfortunate-answers-Celebrity-Mastermind-2009-resurface-given-new-role.html
    
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    November 10, 2024 12:44pm
    - mogg
      
      Yes I saw that, what a f—-wit. Talk about failing upwards, he was also a BLM supporter along with most of the Labour cabinet, and Kamala by the way.
      
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      November 10, 2024 1:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Grunt, around the traps of Westminster Starmer has a name that rhymes with Keir. The UK media of course are keeping mum.
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:49am
- kevn
  
  Grunter… Meanwhile in NZ, HDPA doesn’t know who Klaus (Schwab) is… He who is watching some WEF crashing going on.
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:52am
H. Upmann

Pure gold – “….. the Democrats put up Kamala Harris, who apparently has no idea what she thinks about anything, even less idea what she is doing, and talks like a malfunctioning Hallmark-card message generator.”
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/11/06/deplorable-no-more/
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November 10, 2024 10:22am
- Swifty
  
  “That the Democratic Party tried to pass off this empty pantsuit as a political giant, set to bring ‘joy’ to a weary nation, betrays a contempt for voters that is even deeper than we imagined.”
  
  Indeed, and exactly the same as how Labour regarded New Zealanders with Ardern.
  
  “We’ve wrecked everything, and will continue to do so, but look at how Jacinda tilts her head, can read a speech and don’t forget she’s just had a babyyyyyyyy!”
  
  “Don’t forget too that the Labour team is just brimming with talent!”
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That must be what Ardern told her to do. Kindness interpreted as joy?
    Another fuckup by Ardern?
    
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    November 10, 2024 12:02pm
- Bridgenag
  
  ….. malfunctioning Hallmark-card message generator…….. love it
  
  14 1
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  November 10, 2024 11:26am
  - David Garrett
    
    Bridge: yep, thats a goddie alright.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:28pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360481551/indonesias-mount-lewotobi-laki-laki-unleashes-towering-columns-hot-clouds
What will the Paris Accord say about this ?
How will they try to offset the effect on the earth’s atmosphere?
Will they blame Indonesia and seek retribution?
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November 10, 2024 10:41am
- PurplePen
  
  When volcanoes erupt, they release large amounts of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere. The SO2 combines with water in the stratosphere to form sulfuric acid aerosols which reflects sunlight which cools the Earth’s surface. Mind you, volcanoes also eject lots of CO2 and water vapour which have the opposite effect. So who knows.
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:00am
- cmm
  
  https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdTcybm8wdnZ6bXB4c2gxd2M2cGhqcDFwaGg2NmdiOXYwMmtmdTBieiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/1bwFU9fbzztQLADT1i/giphy.webp
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:17am
Swifty

It’s funny how one person’s speculation is seen as news worthy by Stuff:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360481558/alarm-over-elon-musk-and-national-security-has-yet-sink

Secondly, there are some good ideas there – I do hope Trumpy and Musk do in fact clean out US government deadwood.

What a wonderful thing that would be. It might even make America great again.
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November 10, 2024 10:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Elon Musk will be a big part of MAGA.
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:07pm
  - Mike
    
    Perhaps. But just because Trump owes him big time doesn’t necessarily mean Musk will get to cash the check.
    
    5 14
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    November 10, 2024 12:18pm
    - herb1
      
      When you’ve got $280 billion you don’t need to cash the cheque, you can just do what you think is right. The complete opposite of virtually every one of our left wing pol lies , who are in it because they don’t have the skills to get a high paying job
      
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      November 10, 2024 4:59pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      It would appear Google, FB, old Twitter and many other woke-grifting/deep-state infiltrated platforms were all in on election interference. Musk risked 40+ billion of his own money to make sure there was an uncensored large social media platform available so people could make up their own minds.
      
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      November 10, 2024 6:05pm
cmm

I see that Iraq is returning the age of consent to the Prophet-endorsed 9 years old.

At age 9 I wonder what sort of consent is involved?

It is, after all, a society in which a female is a chattel. I would expect that consent means the consent of her father or brother rather than the girl herself.
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November 10, 2024 11:00am
- Swifty
  
  Please don’t speak ill of the people the NZ Labour Party and the Green Party wish to import en masse into New Zealand.
  
  That just won’t do. It’s very racist of you.
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:03am
- Grunter
  
  They are clearly bat siht crazy…..
  
  And I thought that bombing the crap out of them 30 years ago would have changed their ways? //
  
  At least they have given up all their weapons of mass destruction.//
  
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  November 10, 2024 11:16am
- Mike
  
  Invading Iraq and Afghanistan and reforming those societies worked out well, didn’t it?
  
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  November 10, 2024 12:16pm
  - fernglas
    
    Having travelled extensively in both those places many years ago, I can tell you that the invasions of both didn’t make things much better or worse. It just stirred the shit around.
    
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    November 10, 2024 1:01pm
  - Gussy Fink-Nottle
    
    That’s why we need more Trumps.
    
    4 2
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    November 10, 2024 1:58pm
    - Mike
      
      He’s a card, alright.
      
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      November 10, 2024 2:14pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Mike, the majority of locals preferred life under Jihadi/Tyrant rule, or life under US control?
    
    Aus is very multiculural in the big cities and I have spoken to many people who lived in those places.
    
    It took centuries of bloodshed to free the west from religious/feudal tyranny. Freedom isn’t free.
    
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    November 10, 2024 5:10pm
- NothingLeft
  
  I recall a news story recently of a prepubescent girl in one of the ickystans who died after being raped by her middle aged ~~husband~~ pedophilic spouse. Allah’s will apparently and no-problemo under their antediluvian legal and religious rules.
  
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  November 10, 2024 1:23pm
  - Mike
    
    It’s estimated that over 50,000 US rape victims could not legally access abortion care last year. Not all were pregnant, of course, and not all were children, but it does show, as you say, the problems with ancient legal and religious rules.
    
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    November 10, 2024 2:39pm
    - Jack5
      
      Jeez, Mike/Milky, can you please elaborate on your:
      
      … over 50,000 US rape victims could not legally access abortion care last year. Not all were pregnant, of course …
      
      When did abortion come a pregnant-or-not procedure?
      
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      November 10, 2024 3:14pm
      - Mike
        
        Not every rape victim is impregnated, but there would be many zealots whho would deny victims the morning after pill.
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:01pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mike: ” there would be many zealots who would deny victims the morning after pill”
        
        Very very few indeed in the west I’d say. I know of absolutely nobody in Aus or NZ who would advocate that. In ROP dominated regions on the other hand….
        
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        November 10, 2024 5:13pm
      - Mike
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/18/wyoming-becomes-first-us-state-to-outlaw-use-of-abortion-pills
        
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        November 10, 2024 6:51pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mike you claimed without any evidence that “there would be many zealots who would deny victims the morning after pill.”
        
        When challenged you the post a link (from a garbage censorious far left propaganda site) about a US state outlawing THE ABORTION PILL. A very different pill with much greater potential dangers to the mother. Has that state in question outlawed the basic morning after pill (which is more or less just a big dose of birth control pills)?
        
        I can only conclude you just like jerking people around on here to get your jollies.
        
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        November 10, 2024 7:26pm
    - Taieri
      
      Estimated by whom? And on what basis?
      
      5 1
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      November 10, 2024 3:39pm
      - Ghost
        
        Ah, it looks like they have taken data from 2016/2017 then estimated the numbers…..
        
        https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/64-000-pregnancies-caused-by-rape-have-occurred-in-states-with-a-total-abortion-ban-new-study-estimates/
        
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        November 10, 2024 4:03pm
    - NoFax
      
      So, the death penalty for the child of the rapist? So modern and forward thinking of you Mike.
      
      5 3
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      November 10, 2024 4:09pm
      - Ghost
        
        So you want the survivor of rape, with all the shit they are going to go through to also go through having the rapists child…..
        
        5 1
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        November 10, 2024 4:22pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I think you’ll find the overwhelming majority of reasonable people (ie not brainwashed woke zealots) would say in those cases do it as early as possible. That’s also Trump’s position. My take is a foetus is an individual human life with the full potential of a full life ahead. Obviously someone (a woman) has to carry that baby for 9 months and all that entails needs to be taken into account.
        
        Oh, and there is a thing called adoption. Abortion is pushed heavily as the cure all “must-do” “in all cases” solution though. Why? Especially when the woman carrying the baby may be open to carrying to delivery then immediately adopting out.
        
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        November 10, 2024 5:21pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Many women choose to, and their offspring are presently a strong voice in the pro-life movement.
        
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        November 10, 2024 5:35pm
      - Ghost
        
        3 or 4 years ago an 11 year old girl in Brazil died after giving birth to her rapists child. A waste of a life
        
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        November 10, 2024 5:42pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Ghost: “3 or 4 years ago an 11 year old girl in Brazil died after giving birth to her rapists child. A waste of a life”
        
        Indeed a horrible tragedy and a waste of life. Is that supposed to be a conversation stopper and “case closed” example though? Tragic as it was, it does sound like something on the edges of the bell curve. I’d be wanting to know ALL the details from a reasonably non-biased source. EG why did she go through with the pregnancy and what actually specifically caused her death etc etc? General poverty in her area and a lack of decent public medical resources for example?
        
        I’m not an anti abortion zealot but I do think we should think a bit more deeply about it. I think “So you want raped women to raise a rapist’s baby” type stuff is low resolution activist emotional manipulation really. Not too much different to TPM calling people “racist” as an attempted discussion-stopper really IMHO.
        
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        November 10, 2024 7:40pm
      - Ghost
        
        You really do come up with stupid comments. And then you put into quotes a comment I didn’t make, what I said which you tried to change to what you wanted it to say was. So you want the survivor of rape, with all the shit they are going to go through to also go through having the rapists child. Don’t lie about what was said because you want it to say something else. And it was in reply to a very pathetic comment aimed at Mike
        
        So, the death penalty for the child of the rapist? So modern and forward thinking of you Mike
        
        Unfortunately we have some men on this blog, well males, who think they should be allowed to push their views on female rape victims and demand they keep the rapists child. Men who care less about the survivor of rape and more about their own belief. It’s up to the survivor of rape what they do, not a bunch of men trying to once again force their ways on to the woman.
        
        Maybe instead of pushing your own views onto victims of rape you should consider what the woman wants. Consider the hell they are going through.
        
        Survivors and Advocates Seek Help from UN Human Rights Committee
        
        Rape, abortion ban drives pregnant teens to suicide in El Salvador
        
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        November 10, 2024 8:32pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Not sure who you are referring to Ghost and not prepared to waste too much more time on this but I note you use the cheap old feminist stunt of telling any man who isn’t in complete lockstep with every article of faith in the gender studies brainwashing manual that he’s “not a real man”.
        
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        November 11, 2024 4:50pm
- herb1
  
  This has nothing to do with “ consent” as 9 year olds aren’t in a position to consent.
  It’s about providing a legal defence for paedophiles.
  
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  November 10, 2024 4:20pm
Bridgenag

Weekly Round-up: Only We Can Prevent Socialism
So let’s get to work to save this republic!

“The democrat’s hand-wringing about losing the election is pure entertainment. It is Obama’s fault, no Biden’s – no, Kamala’s to blame! It must be the DNC, not having an open convention, Biden didn’t sell his recovery plan well enough, Kamala was too much like Biden, Kamala wasn’t enough like Biden, the recriminations and the blame games go on and on.”
https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/weekly-round-up-only-we-can-prevent?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&comments=true
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November 10, 2024 11:39am
- mogg
  
  Also blamed on racism and misogyny. The best has to be when Kamalah was asked directly ‘what will you do about inflation? she replied “I grew up in a house with nice lawns, my family was aspirational”
  
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  November 10, 2024 1:04pm
Philview

I give RNZ and Jim Mora credit for the interview with John Jordan this morning. I am not familiar with John but he gave excellent analysis of Donald Trump’s policies.
5 1
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November 10, 2024 12:45pm
Ghost

Pretty sure I’ve seen this movie….

YEMASSEE, S.C. (WBTV) – One of the 43 escaped monkeys that escaped from a South Carolina research facility has been found, according to The Yemassee Police Department.

The Rhesus macaque primates escaped from the Alpha Genesis facility in Yemassee, which is along I-95 in Beaufort County on Wednesday, Nov. 6.

Article.
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November 10, 2024 12:47pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  IMHO MSN News is a pile of trash these days.
  
  Apparently this joint is a breeding facility for research monkeys. The ones that got out were young ones that hadn’t been experimented on.
  
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  November 10, 2024 5:24pm
Swifty

I see Hone Harawira hasn’t put his political aspirations entirely behind him.

Here he is announcing new policy recently on TVNZ:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18M4xKH6aX/?mibextid=UalRPS
5 2
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November 10, 2024 1:31pm
rouppe

Kiwi woman reveals why she chose to marry herself

Words fail me.
8 3
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November 10, 2024 1:37pm
- Ghost
  
  Good on her. She got herself out of an abusive relationship, learned to accept and love herself, and built herself a new life and a business.
  
  article
  
  5 4
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  November 10, 2024 1:58pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ha! She was a tarot card reader and astrologer, and still she was in an abusive relationship.
    
    Doesn’t sound she was much good at the predictive business.
    
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    November 10, 2024 3:39pm
Inandout

The anti Trumpers are marching in New York and on X this rather clever comment.

‘I went to the bookstore this morning and asked if they had Trump’s new book on how to deport illegal immigrants..

The clerk said, “Get the fuck out and don’t come back!”

I said, “Yes, that’s the one! Do you have that in paperback?”
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November 10, 2024 1:56pm
- Colinxy
  
  Not X but YouTube: Hispanic man deeply upset that his illegal immigrant MIL might be deported. (47 seconds)
  
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  November 10, 2024 3:06pm
  - Swifty
    
    Heh.
    
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    November 10, 2024 4:49pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I had a similar experience in a Melbourne Op Shop shortly after Trump won in 2016. I was chatting with another shopper about the fact Trump had won. A large woke emo goober in his early 20s with voice shaking with rage, who was supposedly there to serve at the counter, butted in aggressively and tried to tell us the subject was not allowed in the shop. The self righteousness with these people is amazing.
  
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  November 10, 2024 5:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

CNN undercuts Trump’s “Landslide” boast and adds warning.
I don’t see what the warning is. Give it away CNN. Trump won – your news and predictions of close were Fake News.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/cnn-undercuts-trump-s-landslide-boast-and-adds-a-warning/ar-AA1tNFbY?
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November 10, 2024 2:35pm
Ghost

Seems Australia is looking at bringing in laws around misinformation and disinformation, trump is going after the growing censorship and government interference online https://x.com/Chesschick01/status/1854970095451177124
5 1
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November 10, 2024 3:27pm
Damocles11

‘ The Government is funding $20 million for building repairs and improvements at the Waitangi Treaty Grounds and Rātana Pā.’

Disgusting. Stuff this traitor government. Ratana is a cult, it means nothing to about 4.5 million New Zealanders, yet taxpayers have to stump up millions of dollars for it. This country is a wreck.
14 1
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November 10, 2024 3:29pm
- Swifty
  
  Waitangi, yes.
  
  Rātana, no. It’s effectively the state funding religion.
  
  Will be be paying for the construction of mosques next?
  
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  November 10, 2024 4:43pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The taxpayer, courtesy Shane Jones, is donating $10m to each of Ratana Pa and the Waitangi Trust Board. The former is a bit sus; if Ratana are offering the welcome then why are we stumping up for their buildings?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360481745/government-gives-10-million-each-waitangi-treaty-grounds-and-ratana-pa

Turning to the Waitangi Trust Board, I was astounded to discover that its Board is made up of descendants and representatives of people directly associated with this historic site. Trustees include family members of Tamati Waka Nene, James Busby, the Williams family and Edward Gibbon Wakefield(!). No representatives of William Hobson or the Royal Navy, while the absence of descendants of Archbishop Pompallier is to be expected. Willow Jean Prime is there also; I guess she’s representing NZ’s idiots. Who says NZ has no aristocracy, eh.

https://www.waitangi.org.nz/about/people-leadership#:~:text=The%20Board%20continues%20to%20be,be%20Patron%20of%20the%20Trust.
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November 10, 2024 3:57pm
DimChappie

Kamala has shown intelligence in the past – here s is a clip from 5 years ago when she was battling Joe Biden to be the Democrat candidate. Both of them seem far brighter than today – Joe was not yet senile and Harris must have been ordered to repress her personality. Look how she defends herself about the 5:30 mark. You did not see her smart side of her during the presidential campaign. Maybe her minders ordered her to stick to her dumb script.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4fjA0K2EeE
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November 10, 2024 4:23pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Seriously wonder if she has a drug or other medical problem. Her work rate during the campaign was so low, and when she did show up she was embarrassingly weak.
  
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  November 10, 2024 5:37pm
- AitchW
  
  I wonder if the Dems realised that they had done to America what Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins, et al have done to NZ? And rather than face the inevitable firestorm (like the one the coalition is facing here) made the decision the throw the election by leaving Biden there as long as possible then replacing him with an unelectable and unlikeable candidate in Harris.
  Now as the Republicans try to clean up the mess the Dems can shriek at them from the sidelines just like Hipkins, Verral and their comrades are doing now to the coalition. They also get the added bonus of being able to repeat ad nauseum the mantra “orange man bad”.
  
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  November 10, 2024 5:58pm
- alwyn.a
  
  “Maybe her minders ordered her ….”
  They probably told her “Just be yourself … ” and she followed the recommendation.
  
  Give it up. She was terrible in her 2020 campaign for the Presidency and dropped out before any primaries were held. She only got the nomination this time because Joe didn’t have the sense to drop out in late 2023 so that his Party could have picked someone who had a chance. When he finally did quit it was too late for his party to recover.
  
  I say that as someone who would have voted for her. I would have voted for anyone who was not Trump but I still think she was a useless candidate
  
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  November 10, 2024 6:01pm
NothingLeft

A couple of shots across the bow from Trump:
-Very strong statement regarding eradication of censorship.
https://youtu.be/xJfUXVOoFBo
-Says he’ll dump the Paris accords (which would be their international death knell – inevitable anyway given how unaffordable they are.)
https://www.news18.com/world/trump-preparing-to-withdraw-from-paris-climate-agreement-before-taking-office-report-9114556.html

I’m pretty pleased to see these two initiatives. Though the long drawn out ‘count’ underway in Arizona and California seems like it might be on cusp of taking away the house majority from republicans. And Rinos in senate seem to be trying to maneuver an anti-Trumpster into leadership.
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November 10, 2024 5:45pm
kevn

Nothing… Apparently 40% of the California votes are for Trump.
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November 10, 2024 6:28pm
Swifty

Let’s see our news media grill our home-grown Hamas-huggers on this material:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14063545/gaza-hamas-torture-palestine-israel.html?ico=article_preview_xp_mobile

This is the people they support?

I just can’t believe how much of the NZ Left have just left their consciences at the door over the Gaza issue.

They have let their Jew and US hatred just consume them and left them as hateful empty husks of people.
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November 10, 2024 8:19pm
Inandout

Twenty thousand of these mongrels escaped from el Salvador and some were let into the US by the Dems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjq0ECRxhA&t=1893s
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November 10, 2024 9:06pm

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