About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

January 9, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 January 2025

Like this:

Like Loading...

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment203

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (203)

Login to comment or vote

CJames

People would have seen in the papers that the US Surgeon General (not the trans one) wanted warning labels put on alcohol like it is for cigarettes because he had determined “ moderate drinking is a “leading preventable cause of cancer in the United States.” Of course it was claimed that he was led by the science. And no doubt it will be picked up and run with by the wowser groups here in NZ.
However, investigation by the Wall Street Journal gave a totally different story. The evidence shows the opposite of what his advice was.

“The AG’s report warns that, for some cancers, “evidence shows that this risk may start to increase around one or fewer drinks per day.” Note the operative word, may. The link between heavy drinking and throat and mouth cancer is well-established—but not for moderate consumption.

Two weeks earlier the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine released a congressionally mandated review of the recent evidence on the health effects of moderate drinking, or up to one drink a day for women and two for men. Its more than 200 pages of findings run counter to Dr. Murthy’s 22-page report, though they got scant attention in the press.
The academies found insufficient evidence to support a link between moderate drinking and oral, pharyngeal, esophageal, laryngeal and other cancers. It did find a slightly higher risk of breast cancer with moderate drinking but also a lower risk of death generally and from cardiovascular disease specifically compared with never drinking.

Dr. Murthy claims that “alcohol use,” not only abuse, is a “leading preventable cause of cancer in the United States, contributing to nearly 100,000 cancer cases and about 20,000 cancer deaths each year.” This estimate is based on models of associations from cherry-picked observational studies. But even the report partially attributes only 17% of these estimated deaths to moderate drinking. Of the 609,820 cancer deaths [of the named cancers] in 2023, this would mean moderate drinking contributed to 3,400, or about 0.6%. ”
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/no-moderate-drinking-wont-give-you-cancer-surgeon-general-politicization-d0cdcbe6?st=VRwMTF&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

The SG also issued similar type advice on loneliness and islation, firearms violence, workplace mental health (which included increasing the minimum wage!) and health misinformation where all his solutions were more involvement by big government. It didn’t matter that the cause of many was the government rules, More rules would improve the situation.

So a progressive in an advocacy role misuses the science to push a policy a lot more radical than the evidence supports. The solution is more big government. Now where have we seen that before? Don’t all rush.
39 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:01am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  “And no doubt it will be picked up and run with by the wowser groups here in NZ.” Was featured on TV1 6.30 news within the last week.
  
  13 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:13am
- sirknz
  
  “So a progressive in an advocacy role misuses the science to push a policy a lot more radical than the evidence supports. The solution is more big government.”
  
  Next you’ll be telling us that water is wet…
  
  18 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:24am
- cmm
  
  Even the papers that kicked off the whole business with smoking showed that smoking harm was minimal so long as people quit by 35 years old.
  
  The surgeon general etc at the time thought that would send a confusing message so just omitted that finding.
  
  They will “follow the science” when the science is on-message and ignore it when they want to.
  
  Trust in government is at an all time low – and rightfully so.
  
  33 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:28am
  - G152
    
    And their socalled media (which means all ‘news’)
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:28am
- peterwn
  
  Dr Murphy’s four year term is nearly up so Donald Trump can drain the swamp by nominating a person (who the Senate approves) who is not so interventionist.
  
  19 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:00am
- newview
  
  Good comment CJ. We are offered statistics on all sorts of things which can be manipulated to suit any agenda. As for the science unless some of these cancers are caused by alcohol only, there is immediately some doubt to what actually triggered the cancer imo. I am naturally skeptical of so called experts and how they may study anything. Take throat cancer, do only smokers and drinkers get it. If that’s the case how do you tell which one actually caused the cancer , the drink or the smoking. Was it one standard drink a week or a bottle of whiskey. If it was one beer a week how can anybody honestly say that caused a cancer. Just saying.
  
  17 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:09am
  - Quail
    
    Agree NV
    Man can’t live by beer alone.
    What about other products ingested , both involuntary and voluntary.Air pollution, coffee tea and any number of abrasive foods.
    
    8 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:51am
    - newview
      
      Agree entirely Quail. If the experts have accumulated large amounts of data on thousands of patients, interviewed them thoroughly and accurately, covering the possibility of other substances medications and foods that may have caused the cancer then I will take notice. I don’t believe that would have happened in enough detail. But then I’m a skeptic who believes researchers need headlines like politicians.
      
      8 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:21am
      - OlderChas
        
        I remember reading a report (from a newspaper – remember when they actually had reporters?) that money caused cancer. (This was in my teens) A group at a US university sewed some small US coins under the skin of lab mice and every one of them developed cancers at the site. (Which could be why I seem reluctant to hold onto my money for long!)
        
        0 0
        Report
        January 10, 2025 8:22am
- PurplePen
  
  This from the nation with the highest spending per capita on health and simultaneously the worst health. I know the correlation isn’t valid, but it suggests any advice from USA would best be ignored.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 12:55pm
- RdM
  
  Chris Snowdon covered this recently:
  https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2024/12/moderate-drinking-continues-to-be-good.html
  
  And has many other posts on the benefits of moderate drinking (with graphs, references!):
  
  https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/search?q=moderate+alcohol
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 2:05pm
CJames

From GB News
“Imams are still actively promoting grooming rings, Dr Taj Hargey from the Oxford Institute for British Islam has said on GB News. The group’s founder made a series of staggering claims 11 years after he first raised concerns about race and religion being inextricably linked to grooming rings in Britain.
“The criminality is fuelled by the ideology of the Islamic fundamentalism which has no basis in the Qu’ran.
“These fundamentalist Muslims believe If the Prophet Muhammad can sleep with a nine-year-old, what’s wrong with me sleeping with a 12-year-old?’, even though the story is not true.”
“The idea is, when you can delegitimise these youngsters as being less than human and being less than equal and for you to do whatever you please, that is the basis for these men to act like that. There is this ideology, this interpretation of Islam which makes this possible.”
https://www.gbnews.com/news/imam-grooming-gangs-promoting-rings-muslim-leader
https://www.gbnews.com/news/islam-leader-muslim-rapists-go-heaven-grooming-ganngs

The Pakistani rape gangs have occurred on an industrial scale in the UK with acceptance of them by authorities, politicians, and most of the media. Where else has it occurred?
49 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:02am
- kowtow
  
  Pakistani Rape gangs operate over decades with almost literal impunity .( state collusion even).
  
  Tweet something rude about Johnny Foreigner , police immediately break down your door and the judge will lock you up in no time flat. No bail.
  
  And then the Luvvies wonder why disruptors like Trump and Farage have such appeal.
  
  But the Dinner Paahti set will never get it , will they.
  
  24 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:32am
- Chuck Bird
  
  “If the Prophet Muhammad can sleep with a nine-year-old, what’s wrong with me sleeping with a 12-year-old?’, even though the story is not true.”
  
  Are you saying that the paedophile prophet did not have sex with his 9 year old wife?
  
  18 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:47am
  - CJames
    
    That was a quote from Taj Hargey.
    
    16 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 8:50am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    As far as I know, Muhammad is said to have married Aisha when she was nine but not actually slept with her until she was twelve. You might be interested to know that Henry VII was born when his mother was thirteen
    
    12 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:01am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Margaret Beaufort almost died giving birth, She never had any more children.
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 9:36am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Source please.
      
      Muhammad is said to have married Aisha when she was six but not actually sleep with her until she was nine.
      
      6 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:09am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        This was fifteen centuries ago, in a nomadic tribal society that didn’t maintain official public records, so obviously nobody, including you, can be definitive about it. Here is an article that discusses the matter
        
        https://newlinesmag.com/essays/why-scholars-of-islam-disagree-about-the-age-of-the-prophet-muhammads-youngest-wife/#:~:text=Some%20state%20her%20age%20as,later%2C%20at%2012%20or%2013.
        
        It is, however, well documented that the same thing was still happening in Europe several centuries later. As well as the aforementioned Margaret Beaufort, Shakespeare has the father of Juliet, who has just been established as being thirteen, saying “Younger than she are happy mothers made”, a statement that is not contradicted or remarked on
        
        2 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 2:12pm
      - kowtow
        
        DQ
        
        He was a townsman from Mecca , wasn’t nomadic .
        
        4 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 2:30pm
- Yabster
  
  corrupt media and politicians- too scared to expose the disgusting teaching and thoughts of these scumbags- the imans should be locked up and the pricks who have participated castrated.
  
  12 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:52am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I wonder how much longer before there is a national inquiry into the grooming rape gangs.
  
  Starmer said that the previous Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse covers the issue. But that was sprawling, looking at abuse from custody to care homes. Crucially it only looked at six towns, but we now know that abuse took place in as many as 50 towns and cities. When the Home Secretary was asked how many victims there were, for instance, in Bradford, she simply didn’t know. None of us do.
  
  Starmer cannot possibly expect 50 councils, some of whom who have been found to be in complete denial, to all conduct local reviews. So in denying a national inquiry Starmer is content to never uncover the truth about what happened in those communities.
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/08/labour-refusal-inquiry-fuel-perception-cover-up/
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:29am
  - mogg
    
    There is now evidence that the police in Rotherham and Rochdale were protecting the gangs of Pakistani rapists.
    
    14 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:20am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    And yet NZ Councils continue to recruit their CEOs ex UK councils. Among the latest is WCC.
    
    https://wellington.govt.nz/news-and-events/news-and-information/our-wellington/2024/12/new-ceo-matt-prosser/
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:52pm
- imalwaysright
  
  The narrative that the police and politicians did nothing because they were scared of being called racist is complete bullshit.
  
  They did nothing because a proper investigation would expose many of the participants, aiders and abettors as being from the establishment.
  Councillors, police, government officials, media, “nobility”.
  Its a cess pit.
  
  15 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:52am
  - Mod88
    
    I agree with that statement 100% and looking closer to home would be very revealing I think. It is not confined to the UK I’m sure.
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:13am
- kowtow
  
  CJames
  
  Sadly the good Dr the media trot out , as they often do, is not and in fact is extremely far from being a typical or representative imam.
  
  He comes from a tiny sect that has no real or any influence beyond his immediate circle .
  
  In fact the best of luck to him as he’s in very grave danger from an awful lot of his alleged co religionists.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:50am
- PurplePen
  
  This applies to all 3000+ religions (Google search result) on the planet. All religious texts are written by humans. As soon as they’re deemed a religious text they’re adhered to without question, they’re gospel so to speak. There’s no science, no establishment of facts. The texts could be whatever fairy-tale you want and they’re treated as fact somehow. It’s about time they were allowed to be freely challenged just as any purported fact or science is challenged.
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 1:02pm
- leoj
  
  The United Kingdom of Islam will soon become another shithole, if it isn’t one already.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 3:58pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

NZ’s most popular baby names in 2024. Unlike the UK, Muhammad does not feature (there, it is no. 1 for boys).

Interestingly, no Maori names feature in the top 10 for either boys or girls.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538442/top-baby-names-in-new-zealand-for-2024-announced

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/top-10-baby-names-in-england-and-wales-revealed-13267388
8 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:05am
- Swifty
  
  Very interesting – my mother was named Isla in 1934 when it was very rare indeed.
  
  How things change….
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:00am
  - pdm
    
    Swifty my mother, born 2017, was Vera Elizabeth Ada.
    
    Vera and Ada are rare these days – maybe Vera Duckworth had a role to play with Vera.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:27am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Swifty my mother, born 2017, was Vera Elizabeth Ada.
      
      So you were born after say 2037, so a traveler from the future!!! Delighted to make your acquaintance.
      
      9 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 12:10pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Isla derives from the Scottish isle – Islay
    (Both the girl’s name and the Island are pronounced as eye-la)
    
    My mother was named after another Scottish isle – Iona.
    
    I have also met folks named after these Scottish islands:
    Lewis
    Skye
    Coll
    and Arran.
    
    I’ve yet to meet a Rum, an Eigg or a Muck.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 4:35pm
- Grumpy Silver Top
  
  So a mere 250 boys were named Noah out of a total registered births of 59,199 and that is the most popular name. Who cares? How to fill your news pages with useless information. I guess it’s one of those regular slot fillers that gets reported every year. Sigh.
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:36am
  - MCōs
    
    I find it quite interesting
    Back when I was born (not 1903) people were far less imaginative with the popular names occurring much more frequently. My names was sixth and I’m the fourth one in the family that I know of
    https://www.behindthename.com/top/lists/new-zealand/1903
    
    3 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:21am
- Paulus
  
  Doesn’t the Waitangi Tribunal have to approve names of Iwi and Whanau children ?
  
  5 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 1:34pm
- M.Solvent
  
  RNZ struggling with apostrophes – surely after experiencing the academic rigor of NCEA and a BA, their writers and editors should know how to refer to plural Islas. /
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 1:38pm
  - leoj
    
    Our education system is in tatters due to the lowering of standards.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 4:00pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And when did NZ (or any other country) become a person?
    
    Stuff headline yesterday:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/360542161/new-zealand-snubbed-new-york-times-52-places-go-2025-heres-who-made-list
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 4:54pm
    - OlderChas
      
      I heard on the TV “news” last night that “schools are concerned”. I guess the pupils, teachers, principals, even the boards could be concerned, but seriously doubt that a bunch of buildings on solid land have “concerns”.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 10, 2025 8:35am
- kowtow
  
  No doubt the bright but anxious young things are calling their boys Noah cos they need someone to save them from the inevitable , global boiling floods that are coming cos utes and bar be ques …….
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 2:32pm
artemisia

Meta fact checkers gone – New Zealand ‘experts’ weigh in.

Catastrophic Researcher for the now wound-up Disinformation Project, Dr Sanjana Hattotuwa, said it would be catastrophic for countries outside the US…. In New Zealand, pulling back on content moderation would remove protection for vulnerable and often targeted groups such as Māori, the rainbow community and women.

A deep concern for the civilised world Senior lecturer in philosophy at Waikato University, Dr Joseph Ulatowski, said abandoning all fact checking was a mistake…. He said the optimistic view was that relying on community notes would mean people who disagreed would engage with each other, and the facts would surface – but in reality, it would mean the removal of quick and easy access to reliable evidence and information. “That is a deep concern for the civilised world,” he said.

Then there is Mr Zuckerberg “Fact checkers have been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they’ve created,” Zuckerberg said in a video announcing the new policy. “What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it’s gone too far.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538507/meta-removing-fact-checking-will-have-catastrophic-consequences-disinformation-expert
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/538409/meta-dumps-fact-checkers-zuckerberg-admits-more-harmful-content-on-the-way
35 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:07am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Fact checkers can still have their say. They can contribute via the community voice option. The only difference is that no one will pay them for their opinion. Follow the money.
  
  21 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:12am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  Zuckerberg even admitted the American govt had been censoring apps and content they didn’t agree with over the last 4 years and wants to work with trump to restore freedom of speech. “…we’re going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse”
  
  Of course the media and lefties here are losing their minds over it. Newsflash. Real people don’t want mass immigration of low value people. Real people don’t want to have to call a man a woman and let him compete in women’s sports and use their changing rooms.
  
  The race towards madness can only stop if the voice of the people is heard.
  
  26 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:27am
- cmm
  
  I call Zuckerboy’s bluff.
  Talking about building trust at the same time as trotting out a bunch more AI bots is beyond irony.
  
  25 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:32am
- Notsofast
  
  Hattotuwa is unlikely to point out that censorship of true facts created the trans epidemic that now gravely afflicts this country.
  Jack Dorsey banned all those that claimed biological sex was the way and the truth.
  
  11 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:41am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I wonder how Jacinda’s Christchurch Call is doing? I can’t see Jacinda getting her phone calls returned from Mr Zuckerberg these days.
  
  38 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:41am
  - pdm
    
    BY – here is an interesting thought.
    
    Will Justin Trudeau join her team? After all he will be looking for a job soon.
    
    24 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 8:45am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I heard he was going to be Meghan Markle’s publicist…
      
      21 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 8:51am
      - pdm
        
        Inv – he has so many opportunities to choose from.
        
        He must be overwhelmed.
        
        11 1
        Report
        January 9, 2025 9:00am
      - Colville
        
        pdm.
        I know you said that being sarcastic but it’s true. He will be inundated with incredibly well paid speaking gigs and directorships on woke boards.
        Totally f$#ked.
        
        15 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 9:31am
  - PurplePen
    
    The only result from J Ardern’s effort here seems to be an inordinate amount of funding supplied for a report to be prepared. Nothing new there.
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 1:09pm
- imalwaysright
  
  “Fact checkers”:
  Hack journalists censoring everything that disagrees with the lies previously told by other hack journalists.
  
  16 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:10am
- G152
  
  What happened to freedom of speach
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:31am
- imalwaysright
  
  Zuckerberg intentionally interfered in the 2020 election because he didn’t want Trump to pass a law detrimental to Z’s freedom to covertly manipulate public opinion.
  
  After the fuss about the provenly false allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 election, one would think that the actual antagonist of election interference would now be in jail…
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 11:02am
Maggy Wassilieff

Pakeha?

Are you a good one or a bad one?

John Tamihere can’t tell….
so all of you are suspect racists.

John Tamihere says this coalition government has burnt every bridge to Māori and turned every Pākeha into a suspect racist creating the division.

https://waateanews.com/2025/01/08/pati-maori-president-john-tamihere/
49 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:14am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Mr. T knows what a racist is, he just needs a mirror to see one.
  
  27 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Meanwhile, one of the Williams family descendants thinks that equality before the law is secondary because it’s not a treaty principle. What an idiot.
  
  Radio NZ Morning report approx 8.15am
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:22am
- Anthony Melchett
  
  I resent being called a pakeha.
  
  It’s a negative term for someone based on their skin colour.
  
  I know another word that’s used negatively based on the colour of one’s skin that I’m not allowed to use that starts with n. Why is it any different?
  
  It’s simply a racist divisive insult. Wasn’t its original meaning “white pig”?
  
  37 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:31am
  - Happy1
    
    There was I time when I would have been concerned if I was called a racist. Now I couldn’t care less.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:52am
    - pdm
      
      It is an indictment on where New Zealand has sunk to though H1.
      
      8 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 12:21pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Agree. I think every human is racist, it’s part of our make-up. It just depends on how you act on it. The likes of Tamihere really do have to come up with a new socially unacceptable trait to call us all as racist is truly worn out.
      
      6 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 1:12pm
      - rouppe
        
        Just look at who people partner up with.
        
        Vast majority of the time it’s:
        Anglo Saxon with anglo Saxon.
        Chinese with Chinese
        Indian with Indian
        Maori with Maori
        
        Yes I know exceptions are plentiful, but in my observation, the vast majority partner up with those of the same cultural values. And that usually means race.
        
        Let’s not forget Hone Harawira saying he’d never let his daughter date a “white mo-fo”.
        
        4 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 3:47pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    “Wasn’t its original meaning “white pig”?”
    
    No it wasn’t. It simply means “a fair/pale skinned stranger. In Rarotonga it is ‘ Papa’a.
    In Samoa & Tonga it is ‘Palangi’.
    It is just a descriptor – not an insult. However, you have the right to view the term as you please – it’s a free world. (still, just )
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 12:07pm
    - Yabster
      
      so we can say maoris are brown or dark skin strangers then and that won’t be an insult- yeah right! Its the acceptance of this crap that has got us where we are now.
      
      6 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 12:45pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I would say that if a Maori in 1825 say, visited Sydney – as they used to do on board a British trading ship, then yes, he could – as a visitor – well be called a brown skinned stranger.
        I think you’re overegging the pudding.
        
        2 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 1:24pm
      - Yabster
        
        b/s don – “stranger” suggest I don’t belong in my country- I won’t ever accept that (even if its historical- and as you say it may have been ok in 1825- but its not now and that cuts both ways!)- same goes for labeling everyone that’s not Maori “non-maori” – -complete b/s.
        
        5 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 1:46pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        You’re welcome to your POV, but I think you are being a bit precious – sticks & stones and all that………
        
        0 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 3:43pm
    - Keith White
      
      Its original context was fish-belly white.
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 1:29pm
- cmm
  
  That is different to the racist test we have for Maori which is far clearer.
  
  Any Maori who chooses to go on the Maori roll is clearly racist.
  Double points for any that vote TPM.
  
  49 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:33am
  - G152
    
    What happens to their European bloodline? Do they demand an extra vote?
    
    18 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:33am
    - pdm
      
      One vote on each roll?
      
      Is that what you are suggesting G152?
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:30am
    - Grumpy Silver Top
      
      I’ve said it before: we are all mixed race. Me, Scots, Celt and German in the last 3 generations. All Maori have ancestors who were not Maori but ignore that patrimony (If that word is sexist, sorry). I honour our Governer-General who acknowledges her full ancestral racial mix. More of our radicals need to look in their own mirrors.
      
      19 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:41am
- Yabster
  
  oh know, the corrupt one is calling all Europeans NZers (I am and never will be a Pakeha) potential racist- well that’s it- we shld all shut up and just go along with the iwi elite- what a twot. Clearly JT and co are getting desperate! Next, he will be calling the SFO “racist”- I hope so anyway.
  
  16 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:36am
- Swifty
  
  There was a time in NZ when people would cower and keep silent at the charge of racism.
  
  I think that time is over. Or at least beginning to be over.
  
  People now recognise it for the disgusting, disgraceful debating tactic that it is. It is intended purely to silence others, to stir up hatred, and to invite his supporters to hate, ridicule and damn New Zealanders just for having other opinions.
  
  It goes without saying that people can be in support of the TPB and/or variants of it, for very proper and principled reasons and not have a racist bone in their body.
  
  John Tamihere is disgracing himself and his cause with his repeated assertions otherwise.
  
  He is not a good New Zealander.
  
  34 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:58am
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    Narcissist is an appropriate term for those who denigrate their opponents rather than debating an issue. Any one we can think of?
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:43am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Swifty
    The only effective reply to someone who calls one a racist is to say “yes, I’m a racist”.
    
    The bar to being labelled a racist is now so low that merely the colour of one’s skin is qualification enough!
    
    If that isn’t irony then I don’t know what is.
    
    12 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:12am
    - Swifty
      
      A racist is now defined as anyone who disagrees with far-left policy prescriptions.
      
      The word has now become utterly debased.
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 11:35am
- John Loveridge
  
  Ironic really. The greedy, grasping, authoritarian Tamihere has done a lot of the heavy lifting that has destroyed people’s trust in Maoris and Maori organisations himself.
  
  38 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:03am
  - Flossie
    
    How much of Tamihere’s gene pool is actually Maori?
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:13am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Why’s Tamihere doing all this kind of talk at the moment?
  
  Are Rawiri & Debbie still on holiday…?
  
  19 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:07am
  - CJames
    
    He has banned all the Maori Party MPs from talking to the media. One suspects they might say something which further incriminates him.
    
    26 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:42am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Packer was talking on radio this morning about the sad state of her mob leaving it to the last minute for the radical attack on the subs for TPB, she says it’s cost cutting that made the computer over load
      
      9 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:18am
      - Swifty
        
        And she knows this how exactly?
        
        11 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:07am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Swifty.
        She is following the lies from media and someone who says they have a 20-year history in such things, she said the portal was overwhelmed as we have been told, or its cost cutting, so the rotten left is spouting the same mantra
        
        4 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 1:01pm
      - Swifty
        
        It may well have been overwhelmed, but that is not uncommon – it happens all the time with concert ticket sales, sporting event sales etc etc.
        
        What is not at all clear is any relationship to government cost cutting. Evidence of her claims should be demanded.
        
        Not that we’ll get any I strongly suspect.
        
        It’s just more disinformation from TPM that coincidentally never gets called out by the disinformation project people.
        
        6 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 2:13pm
- JerJer
  
  Being labelled a racist by a racist. If that’s the test I’m happy to be labelled one. John should have another CarKoi, or start a group. All he has really achieved is have normal Māori perceived as radicals. Big fail John. He seems so angry, Lilly facing fraud charges amongst others will do that to you.
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:11am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  It’s just reassuring to know that those assertive representatives of pakehadom – Chloe & Chippie – will know how to deal with him when forming a government.
  
  And why does Rawiri constantly refer to himself as ‘king maker’ rather than ‘queen maker’? Inherent, subconscious patriarchal sexism, much….?
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 12:58pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Another video from Julian Batchelor cam in last evening
“The Very Dark Side of Maori Calls For Equity”
A lot of younger Maori are now waking up to the fact they have been duped.

Video 16.43.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJm-DPEKZnA
26 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:15am
- cmm
  
  A lot… but enough?
  
  When people struggle to get jobs or are otherwise disengaged from productive society, then the entitlement and victim culture tend to thrive. If you’re struggling and envious then the radical talk from TPM must sound a bit more appealing and the self-justification to commit crime increases.
  
  We have a NEET rate of about 12% for youth (18% for Maori youth). That’s an awful lot of idle hands.
  
  I would not be surprised if TPM form a youth wing to exploit this.
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 8:46am
  - Observer of Life
    
    CMM: “ I would not be surprised if TPM form a youth wing to exploit this.” Don’t give them ideas.
    
    14 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:14am
    - pdm
      
      I thought they had one – GANGS!!!!
      
      16 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 9:40am
  - Steve Otto N Shore
    
    It means the message is getting out. The young Maori realise that and the [Mod – use correct names] along with the activists are all lying to them.
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:22am
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      Waititi and Packer
      
      6 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 11:01am
Bridgenag

New source for me

COVID-19 ‘Vaccines’ Linked to Devastating Neurological and Mental Health Damage
10 shocking stories the media buried today.

https://open.substack.com/pub/vigilantfox/p/covid-19-vaccines-linked-to-devastating?r=4av704&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
16 5
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:28am
imalwaysright

Maybe we should get DOC to oversee the safety of our children.
If two baby seals were murdered within a week there would be a national uproar and people would be in jail.
23 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:28am
Bridgenag

I want to thank the KB poster who listed his/her’s favourite people that post on line. A great source of information and ideas. From the list these are my favourites.

Robert Malone [Wikipedia has been doctored so don’t be deterred- has written Psywars ]

Eugyppius [ writes about Germany]

A Mid Western doctor [Long but sensible posts]

Bad cattitude [quirky and on the mark]
17 3
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:40am
Scooter

Looks like the LA fires are pretty bad. I notice the LA mayor Karen Bass has come under criticism for being out of the country on a trip to Africa. Maybe she and the delegation are hoping to learn how to manage LA’s problems by learning from Ghana.

Btw is she Tory Whanau’s twin, in more ways than one.

“Bass was reportedly on her way back to Los Angeles on Wednesday after a trip out of the country. She was part of a U.S. delegation to Accra for the inauguration of Ghana President John Mahama, plus a meeting with Naana Jane Opoku-Agyemang, who’s making history as Ghana’s first female vice president.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_Los_Angeles
12 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 8:47am
- pdm
  
  Scooter she must have had access to a long wick if she could start the fires from Ghana.
  
  5 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:41am
  - Scooter
    
    PDM Did I say or imply she started the fires?
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:16am
    - pdm
      
      No Swifty but read the piece you quoted – I was trying to be smart.
      
      2 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 12:30pm
      - Swifty
        
        Hey, leave me out of this!
        
        😃
        
        6 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 12:59pm
JerJer

I’m calling fake news here. I know this woman has no clue, but how can she say we are all unhappy with the reduction in waste, racism and general stupidity.

Sure, some are unhappy, but the coalition is as popular now as it was on election night.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360542182/verity-johnson-labour-dont-waste-crisis
23 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:00am
- Colville
  
  I read the article and laughed.
  If an election was held in February after a couple of debates Labour would get smashed. Luxon explaining the issues with the gloves off would see Hipkins humiliated.
  
  24 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:35am
  - Yabster
    
    cmon guys Verity is such a lightweight- why would you bother?
    
    23 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:58am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Auckland’s oldest yoof adjacent “opinion writer” aka the only one that stuff could afford. Trying very hard to be NZs Taylor Lorenz.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 9:37pm
  - Groggy
    
    Lol Luxon’s corporate word salad won’t explain any issues. After stammering “what i would say to you” about 50 times we’d still be none the wiser on what he stands for and what the National Party’s vision for NZ actually is.
    
    13 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:26am
    - NK
      
      They don’t have one apart from getting NZ “back on track”.
      
      5 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:39am
- pdm
  
  jer jer – what is more Stuff pay her for that drivel.
  
  12 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Where does Stuff get its money, and from whom as was only bought for a $1.
    PIJF still via New Zealand on Air – we the Taxpayers are funding newspapers still.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 1:42pm
- peterwn
  
  I looked at the article to see what the ‘crisis’ was but came away uninformed. It was just one big word salad. It is not paywalled so someone at the Post recognises its true value.
  
  20 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:54am
  - Swifty
    
    I gave up early into that piece.
    
    She writes like. 13 year old.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:09am
    - Paulus
      
      Isn’t she still a young Teenager ?
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 1:42pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Verity lives in a little bubble of like-minded champagne socialist millennials. I wouldn’t think she spends much time getting down and dirty with ordinary Kiwis.
  
  25 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:02am
imalwaysright

Saw some nurses on the news a couple of nights ago.
They were talking about the many years of broken promises about getting their back pay.
I wonder what would happen if MBIE, MPI or MFAT etc staff were subjected to the same treatment?

The nurses should be paid the same penalties and interest that IRD would impose for late payments.
19 3
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:03am
- peterwn
  
  But do not forget the Golden Rule – He who has the gold makes the rules.
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:50am
- rockape
  
  My wife owed about $30k . Latest date for settlement is July. She isn’t holding out hope as the last 3 settlement dates have long passed. It’s been outstanding for 15 years now and no interest being paid.
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:48am
  - imalwaysright
    
    R,
    A dollar 15 years ago would buy a lot more than a dollar today.
    
    $30k at 3% interest would be worth over $47k today.
    Interest and penalties should be mandatory.
    I would have thought the union would have taken legal action.
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:26am
Lance

So which country is the Trump USA going to invade first?
Iceland, Panama or Canada?
7 5
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:05am
- H. Upmann
  
  ….or Greenland?
  
  11 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:32am
  - Lance
    
    Yes Greenland, my bad.
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:53am
- peterwn
  
  If Trump overplays his hand then USA may become the 11th province of Canada.
  
  4 16
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:48am
  - Jethrod
    
    Won’t that please old King George the Third.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 3:02pm
- Inandout
  
  Lance, this back and forth stuff has a deeper purpose and that is to instill serious questions involving those three issues. We had better get used to Trump’s non political statements and look at them from a business angle.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:20am
  - Lance
    
    I (almost) get the Panama issue, but the others are bonkers.
    The US tried to invade Canada in 1812 and got its butt kicked.
    
    5 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:00am
    - MCōs
      
      https://x.com/joshuahind/status/1876819547556049057?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
      
      0 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 5:33pm
    - Allan
      
      Who do you think would win now?
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 8:11pm
    - Allan
      
      The canal was the most expensive project ever built by America.
      
      Carter gave it away to Panama.
      
      US ships pay the highest price.
      
      China is shiffing around.
      
      Trump is just opening negotiations with Panama.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 8:13pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Dunno about Iceland Canada or even Greenland, but I say Panama would welcome American Military there. China has been getting very pushy and the fees the US pay are very expensive. Well from what I have gathered anyway.
  Sure the Panama Govt and Trump are making a noise, but just watch the negotiating table.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:32am
- MCōs
  
  It obviously not what MAGA voted for, which was mass deportation of eleven million illegal immigrants and other stuff he can’t possibly achieve such as solve the Russia/Ukraine war in 24hrs.
  Makes a good diversion in the short term.
  
  3 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:45am
G the giant from Dunedin

I see rotten media blaming cost cuts for a computer overload which was share number of people waiting till the last minute for subs on TPB, what utter garbage, and I bet anything that this was a plan by dead beat Māori activity muddy the waters
27 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:05am
- pdm
  
  Of course it was G.
  
  Did you not see the queues somewhere in west Auckland, my guess it was a marae, on TV1 news Tuesday evening?
  
  7 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:45am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The left are raving as if all the subs are against, they may well be the minority and they will have an idea and decided to flood the computer
    
    8 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:21am
- greybeard
  
  They had plenty of warning and plenty of time to make submissions: TPM is just pissed-off that their adherents have been apathetic as usual and couldn’t be bothered making submissions until the last minute.
  
  21 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:47am
  - pdm
    
    GB – not only the Maori Party.
    
    Barbara Edmonds was blasting forth on Labours behalf yesterday.
    
    No sign of the Greens though – that cannot be a bad thing. Especially if they stay that way all year.
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:34am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Greens are in la la land like Ardern and on Holiday till Waitangi Day
      
      8 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:39am
      - pdm
        
        Nah – they will be at Ratana.
        
        4 1
        Report
        January 9, 2025 12:33pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I think it was planned to flood the web page, they will know from the committee how many are for
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:38am
    - DimChappie
      
      Groups opposed to Seymour’s bill are taking the submissions process very seriously, which is odd given National has pledged not to support it into law. RNZ is saying there have been 300,000 online submissions, half received on the last official day!
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538551/treaty-principles-bill-submissions-re-open-after-website-woes
      
      It is almost as if TMP and others see the submissions process as a defacto referendum. Personally I do not care if submissions come out 58 per cent against the Bill. This discussion is clearly needed given the level of interest and we need a real referendum.
      
      9 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 2:53pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Well if the trust had offered KFC vouchers for each submission made, they wouldn’t have had any late submitters. It’s not as if they don’t have the funds.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 1:34pm
- Inandout
  
  G, if they decide to extend this online submission (emails and letters were accepted) then perhaps we can look at extending central and local elections if the result doesn’t suit us. Remember the online Census fiasco under Labour and the site crashes?
  
  10 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:15am
Grunter

I’m glad Trump got elected as President, the alternate was just too ridiculous.

However, I believe Trump will simply delay the inevitable by a year or two (at best), and in some ways will make it worse.

Sovereign Debt – the US $36 debt will continue to grow. All other countries (including Europe, UK, NZ) will follow suit. The global sovereign debt collapse will start over the next few years as the ponzi schemes come to an end.

Inflation – it clearly hasn’t “gone away”, and the Trump Tariffs will explode it higher. The Middle East War (see next point) will create another 1970s oil inflation spiral.

Middle East War – “Return the hostages or all hell will break loose”. Yep, grab the popcorn and stay out of The Middle East.

Ukraine War – The Ruskies have clearly stated their negotiation “must haves”. Forget about what Zelensky says (he is now irrelevant). Trump’s plan so far doesn’t come close to changing the course of the war. Does he have something up his sleeve? I don’t think so.

I do think we will see the end of the ‘Global Boiling’ scam under Trump. That will be as much about reality kicking in and the economic failure of Europe – but Trump will rightly chant “I told you so – drill baby drill!”
5 14
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:09am
- cmm
  
  I mostly agree in that even superman would have limited levers to pull.
  
  The USA debt is in free fall. They are clocking up $10bn in debt every day. That is essentially adding $30 per person per day of fiscal easing.
  
  Add the trickle-down effect and that is probably $50 per person per day of economic activity – especially in the form of over-entitled, consumer-driven, American spending.
  
  The West, but Americans in particular, consider the current financial conditions extremely tight. Wait until you pull $30 per person per day (or $120 per day for a family of 4) out of the economy.
  
  Extremely few would tolerate that and it would lead to an employment crisis as well as a depression – far worse than the Great Depression.
  
  I don’t think the Americans are in position they can reverse out of. It is just a matter of when, not if.
  
  Perhaps Trump can slow it down a bit. I don’t know. But to do so would require significant reductions in spending and focusing the money on America rather than overseas ventures.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 11:09am
  - MCōs
    
    The US debt is not in free fall. It’s rising
    This article tabulated the amount for each year over the last hundred years or so along with all sorts of other information
    If one thing is clear it’s that the trend upwards is inexorable and is certainly set to continue over the next four years
    https://www.investopedia.com/us-national-debt-by-year-7499291
    
    1 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 3:16pm
Yvette

Any threat that seeks to diminish our involvement in water will be met with serious challenge – Tukoroirangi Morgan https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/tukoroirangi-morgan-we-will-mobilise-against-racist-policies-of-incoming-government/2O3YYWKSQBBNLMUVN5H2V3FPRY/

Te Mana o Te Wai was introduced into legislation in 2020 … It was a direct response to the Waitangi Tribunal’s ongoing inquiry into the national Freshwater and Geothermal Resources claim which began in 2012. … The findings were subsequently released under urgency in 2020. One of the key findings determined Iwi/Māori retained proprietary interests in water. It was a watershed [sic]recommendation.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/tukoroirangi-morgan-3-waters-non-maori-have-absolutely-nothing-to-fear/IWDBSLKVMRCRDIJ2RF2QTUS654/

Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill – Government Bill
Principle 2
(1) The Crown recognises, and will respect and protect, the rights that hapū and iwi Māori had under the Treaty of Waitangi/te Tiriti o Waitangi at the time they signed it.
(2) However, if those rights differ from the rights of everyone, subclause (1) applies only if those rights are agreed in the settlement of a historical treaty claim under the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2024/0094/latest/whole.html

So, now under Luxon’s Government Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill, who owns the water?
19 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:22am
- pdm
  
  Yvette – John Key had the best answer to who owns the water.
  
  No one!!!
  
  19 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 9:46am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Soungs good, but look at farmers with water rights. Essentially forever – looks quite similar to ownership to me ….
    
    6 25
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 9:55am
    - Swifty
      
      Good grief.
      
      Usage does not equal ownership – and certainly not the ownership Morgan and others want and which is all about clipping the ticket by way of royalty payments of water usage by others.
      
      Show me one instance in NZ of a farmer getting royalties for water on their farm and I might agree with you.
      
      25 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:05am
      - NK
        
        Owners of rural land with water tanks own the water in that tank.
        
        I’m currently in Queensland where water is sold to rural households. You cannot sell something unless you own it.
        
        It’s absolutely wrong that no one owns water. That statement is a legal fiction.
        
        3 6
        Report
        January 9, 2025 10:43am
      - Flossie
        
        NK – are they selling water, or is the cost involved the delivery charge?
        
        11 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:19am
    - Yabster
      
      ahh what aboutism from old Boag- I was unaware farmers were a race? And why just farmers- winemakers, water bottlers, iwi who already charge (look at Lake Taupo) – bet you where pro 3waters!
      
      16 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:08am
    - Quail
      
      IB,
      Fact, there are few ,if any left ,water rights in perpetuity .
      Most now have annual charges applied by regional councils.There are water take and discharge permits which cost, plus the annual administration and monitoring charges are not insignificant.
      Consents have a limited life after which they have to be renewed.
      On top of this there is the infrastructure cost required to utilise this resource.
      So farmers don’t own water — far from it!
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:40am
      - Ian Boag
        
        water take and discharge permits
        So if I have a permit and the guy next door wants to take some more from the river that flows through his land he can’t if it is all allocated. Sorta like the permit older “owns” it …. no?
        
        Consents have a limited life after which they have to be renewed
        
        Did you ever hear of one not being renewed? Basically if you want to keep it you can ….
        
        0 16
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:07am
      - cmm
        
        You have to dance on the head of a pin to called that owned water rights.
        
        You only own something if you can sell it to someone else.
        
        Real water rights ownership is what they have in USA.
        A farmer can sell his water rights to someone else further down the river (or whatever).
        
        What we have is a water permiting system far more like a driver’s license. A driver’s license allows you to use the road with various restrictions. It is not a right that you can sell.
        
        11 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:14am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @cmm
        
        You only own something if you can sell it to someone else.
        
        Fair enough. But if you can keep it yourself and stop anyone else from getting it, that’s close …
        
        Real water rights ownership is what they have in USA.
        
        Happened in the Murray-Darling basin too, but the rights were bought as investments to be leased back on an annual basis to farmers (many of whom had sold them for the up-front $). Has not worked out well for the farmers ….
        
        1 3
        Report
        January 9, 2025 5:43pm
    - rockape
      
      Farmers don’t own the rivers that run through their land. Have to pay the Government to extract water from them. Doesn’t sound like ownership to me. It’s not farmers i pay the license fees to fish those waters to.
      
      11 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:43am
      - NK
        
        If they’re paying the government for the water then the government is asserting ownership of the water!!
        
        6 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 10:45am
      - Swifty
        
        Yes, NK, on behalf of all New Zealanders – not just a privileged, elite few.
        
        4 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:13am
      - NK
        
        Then Key was wrong when he said “no one owns the water”.
        
        1 4
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:29am
      - pdm
        
        exactly rocky – there used to be the Kings Chain.
        
        Not sure if it still exists.
        
        3 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 12:36pm
      - Quail
        
        River beds are included in some titles , but not others.
        Similarly the Kings chain exists in some areas and not others.
        Largely irrelevant as authorities in NZ have substantially diminished property rights of those who have use rights to land in NZ.These people were formerly known as owners!
        (Think RMA water and other ever increasing regulation)
        
        5 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 5:30pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Have you ever heard of regional and unitary councils?
      What do you think they do all day?
      One of the things they do is closely monitor water use rights – with onsite meters that send data back to their offices.
      Farmers (and other users) have to apply for consents to take water. They have to pay for consents.
      The councils regulate how many water permits can be taken up from any given source (eg river) on the basis of average flows and conservation requirements.
      No farmer can just pump water out of a river or creek and just use it with no oversight.
      We pay for water.
      That usage is monitored constantly
      In dry times, the council will tell users to stop pumping.
      No grape growers who provide the wine so many people admire would be in business without having an irrigation consent to take water.
      Likewise dairy farmers.
      Farmers do not own water.
      They use it legally with a paid for consent.
      
      15 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:51am
      - Swifty
        
        Ian was wide of the mark on this one.
        
        10 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:14am
      - Gravelroad
        
        In reply to Ian Boag above where he asks “Did you ever hear of one not being renewed?”
        This is not correct.
        There are a lot of water consents not renewed.
        Also, the water consent can be taken off the holder.
        A family member here has a water take consent. Due to the nature and use of the property, he doesn’t always use his allocation.
        Then he gets a notice from the council which says “we see you are not using your full allocation, if you are not using it, we will reallocate it”.
        This is due to pressure from businesses down the way who suddenly want irrigation water for their change of land use eg to grape growing or dairying, and find that all the water consents in the area have already been allocated.
        
        14 0
        Report
        January 9, 2025 11:39am
    - Cassandra
      
      Rights to water are rights to extract water. Ownership of the water itself not so clear. You can’t destroy it – the water in your nightly whisky went through a dinosaur’s kidneys a million years ago. I think Key was right – nobody owns it, you just get the right or opportunity to use it. Maori claimants are just acting like the Sussexes (qv Netflix).
      
      13 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 11:05am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That is not true
      
      1 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 11:18am
  - MCōs
    
    So Watercare can take as much as they like from the Waikato River once access is sorted?
    Furthermore
    Watercare can charge for the processing of the water and the reticulation, but not the water itself
    Farmers can take whatever water they like from the rivers for irrigation?
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 3:58pm
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      Waikato River Authority in 2020 wanted to charge Auckland 10 cents a liter for water supply. That is how greedy the bastards are!
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-asked-to-pay-for-water-from-waikato-river/E2ZYIZ6BMUGZA5XXVXXNN7TULE/
      Not sure but it was many millions of dollars per day!
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 5:52pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Tuku is always thumping his great big tub. Lots of threats and much fist-shaking. Big mouth, no brain. A ridiculous character.
  
  17 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:05am
  - Yvette
    
    John, that may be Tukoroirangi Morgan.
    But who, legally, owns water?
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:27am
    - NK
      
      You do, if it’s on your land and falls from the sky.
      
      7 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 10:47am
      - Steve Otto N Shore
        
        But after my water meter I own it, but I pay for it, like $120 per month thankyou Watercare (part of Auckland Council)
        
        1 2
        Report
        January 9, 2025 5:55pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      Yvette, if we’re going to go down that path, who owns the 40 or 50 litres of water that go to make up your average human body?
      
      2 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 2:15pm
  - Allan
    
    He is all piss and wind with no relevance whatsoever. A waste of food and oxygen who should be ignored.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:57am
  - cmm
    
    “Big mouth, no brain.”
    
    So what? he’s not trying to get your support.
    
    Unfortunately the sort of person he is trying to appeal to like the big mouth and don’t car about the brain.
    
    It’s a bit like Winston Peters. WP isn’t trying to appeal to everyone – just the few that will secure his place in parliament.
    
    11 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 11:17am
    - John Loveridge
      
      True.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 2:15pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Te mana Te O Wai was canned in November
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 10:41am
  - pdm
    
    G – now for Taumata Arowai to go the same way.
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 12:38pm
Chuck Bird

An interesting short video by the Maxim Institute.

Josiah Brown | Climate finance is a hot mess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsVHNczptIc
5 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 9:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

Weather chat live: A warmer than average start to the year is on the way

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360509840/weather-chat-live-all-weather-across-new-zealand

Dear Met people… in case you haven’t noticed… the Year has started/begun/commenced and it’s cold.
23 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 10:54am
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  It’s a boiling sort of cold. Boiled so much it evaporated and cold replaced it – or something.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 11:04am
- MCōs
  
  Pretty warm in our neck of the woods
  Other places like Wellington are not meant to be warm
  I lived in a flat down there with a bunch of other 19yo Neanderthals with a windowless lounge. We knew every pub in Wellington, but don’t remember a thing about the weather!
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 4:17pm
Chuck Bird

Sleepy was asked to comment on the fires in LA that are the worst in history and he announced the birth of his great grandchild.
7 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 11:07am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I meant Sleepy Joe.
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 11:42am
kevn

It just won’t go away… and triggers some.
https://dailysceptic.org/2025/01/08/at-last-a-mainstream-media-article-that-mentions-a-direct-link-between-covid-vaccines-and-cancer/
9 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 12:42pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  I am happy I never had any boosters.
  I had two original Covid vaccines just to get commie Ardern’s silly covid passport, but that was it.
  Amazing what the brainwashing has done. I still see people wearing masks, alone in their car. Also outside in the wide open spaces. They still observe the safe distancing!
  And they still vote Labour! No sarc.
  About age 12 I became aware of socialism and how it was for control. Ardern’s bullshit was recognised immediately!
  
  20 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 2:28pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    We were all scammed and trusted…….. Brain washing continues today 3 downticks on posts today with more facts
    
    7 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 5:43pm
    - Steve Otto N Shore
      
      Downtickers don’t do that. They just see your name and BOOM, downtick!
      Just watch my reply – the imbeciles just can’t stop doing it!
      5 4 3 2 1 go!!!!!
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      January 9, 2025 6:11pm
Grunter

There have been over 300,000 submissions on the Treaty Bill, and the process continues until next Tuesday. So maybe it eventually gets to 400,000 – 500,000+?

There are no doubt a bunch of replications from the far-left activists, but still, that’s a huge number of submissions.

So, there are obviously a lot of citizens that would like to have a say on the Treaty.

I know – let’s decide by referendum!
17 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 2:45pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Referendum is what the left don’t want!
  
  4 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 6:12pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Hobson’s Pledge, Don Brash.
Just had an email come in at 1.34pm.
Justice Committee reopening submissions until 1pm on Tuesday 14 January.
It is not on their website yet. Only red radio reporting it.

Extract:
“I hate to break a promise, and I did say that my previous email would be the last reminder about the Treaty Principles Bill consultation, but the breakdown of Parliament’s submissions process has resulted in the Justice Committee reopening submissions until 1pm on Tuesday 14 January. I figured you would forgive me for letting you know!

We have quickly put our submission tool back online and we encourage you to use it rather than going through the Parliamentary website. It is likely that the Parliament submission system will again come under immense pressure due to large numbers of people attempting to submit at once. However, to be extra sure of success, we are collecting, printing, and delivering all submissions that come through our submission tool.

Justice Committee Chair James Meager told media that they have received more than 300,000 online submissions so far.
This blows previous records for number of submissions out of the water and doesn’t include hard copy submissions.”
“As we have seen in the extensive coverage the media has given to those opposing the Bill, we are far from the only community organising to support each other to make submissions. Though the integrity of some of these efforts appears dubious.

We have been contacted about allegations of groups opposing the Treaty Principles Bill submitting multiple times using their children’s names to make the submissions appear unique. We have also been contacted about influencers advising their international followers that they can submit against the Bill and indeed encouraging it.

This just reinforces that we must use these extra five days of submissions to ensure that every New Zealander who supports the Treaty Principles Bill has their say. We won’t play dirty like the other side, but we do need to make every effort to throw our weight behind the Bill and behind the simple idea that we should all have equal rights.”
“The sheer number of submissions clearly demonstrates that a referendum is warranted on the matter. Naysayers who oppose the people of New Zealand voting on the Treaty Principles Bill must explain why more than 300,000 submissions have been received online alone. New Zealanders want to have their say!”

“Don Brash
Trustee
Hobson’s Pledge”
12 1
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 2:51pm
Steve Otto N Shore

Anyone believe this shit?
Who wants a vaccine? Who will even dare to try it? The idiots, that’s who!

https://www.uniladtech.com/science/black-death-vaccine-being-developed-694229-20250108?

It is almost like diseases are being manufactured……….
9 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 3:17pm
Swifty

Ballsy Dutch publish the variance in economic contributions by migrants to The Netherlands by country of origin and by reason for migration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14259337/map-immigrants-contribute-economy-dutch-study.html

Eye-opening.

Who would have the balls to do a NZ study?
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 3:36pm
Chuck Bird

The alarmists including Albo in Oz are blaming climate change for the fires in LA.

Whereas Trump is blaming the Governor for not managing the forest and not having enough water.

I am with Trump.
13 3
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 5:40pm
- Steve Otto N Shore
  
  Greens have this thing about natural compost – and not removing dead scrub.
  Fine Greenies, go put out the fires you wimps.
  
  8 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 6:15pm
- kevn
  
  Chuck… Same story in Aussie bush fires with ample (greens say no to clean-ups) forest debris.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 9, 2025 7:07pm
  - Ron Jeremy
    
    Port Hills as well
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    January 9, 2025 10:22pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone see TVNZ news where Wendy P said Trump made unfounded allegations about Newsom regarding undergrowth and lack of water?

If they had fact checked they would have seen Trump was right in both cases and had warned Newsom in the past. Who decides what to say, the news reader or someone senior?
10 2
Log in to Reply
Report
January 9, 2025 7:28pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I saw that.
  As a result, I watched the rest of the “report” issued by some guy in New York in order to hear some evidence of what Trump was accused of saying.
  I heard no such evidence offered. Could have missed it, but don’t think so.
  This was just another example of casual bias expressed by the unprofessional “news team” at TVNZ.
  Casual normalised bias.
  
  1 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  January 10, 2025 7:29am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Bc0l8R5ow
Labour Are Terrified of an Inquiry – Here’s Why.
The Labour Party voted against an independent inquiry. It’s become clear that they’re scared of what this inquiry may uncover and just how deeply that would tarnish their reputation. That is no excuse for hiding the truth from the British Public. [The Tories are no better either.]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 10, 2025 9:34am
sungsamning

https://www.thefp.com/p/mark-zuckerbergs-vibe-shift-plus
Mark Zuckerberg’s Vibe Shift. Plus.
If you ever needed more evidence that elections have consequences, look no further than what’s gone on at Facebook’s parent company in the past 24 hours.

On Monday came the news that Dana White, CEO of Ultimate Fighting Championship, would be joining Meta’s board. A longtime friend of Trump, White made a notable cameo at Trump’s election night victory party, thanking a motley crew of podcasters and streamers like Joe Rogan, Adin Ross, and Theo Von—mainstays of the young male mainstream media who helped deliver Trump the election, as I argued in November.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 10, 2025 9:35am

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« A peaceful transfer of power

Musk vs Farage »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

REMINDER: "Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from the coercive power of the state—and nothing else."
Not PC
NZ: The Final Atlas Network Puzzle Piece Has Arrived
The Standard
What’s French for Schadenfreude?
No Minister
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Political societies and economic preferences.
Kiwipolitico
A discordant note is struck over race-based ticket pricing – Christchurch bar and Brown Town cut ties
Point of Order
Margaret Thatcher, Michael Curley, and the 19th Theorem of Government
Utopia
Genocide Ceasefire Winners & Losers
The Daily Blog
CLIMATE CHANGE
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Only a flesh wound
Stats Chat
300,000!
No Right Turn
2025 and what might have been
Croaking Cassandra
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
NZCPR
Jacinda’s “Act” of kindness has increased abortions 23%
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Misuse of land use planning
Offsetting Behaviour
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d

Share this:

Like this: