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June 20, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 June 2025

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General Debate

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Cassandra

“Iran should have done the deal. I told them, do the deal,” Trump told reporters. “So I don’t know. I’m not too much in the mood to negotiate.”

B2s in Diego Garcia. (The only plane which carries the bunker busting MOP). 20 air to air refuelling aircraft left the US West Coast two days ago. A second carrier group has headed west from Asia.

Apparently the Iranians are digging deeper than the MOP’s 60 metre penetration so there’s a decreasing window of opportunity.

Trump reportedly told senior aides that he has approved attack plans on Iran, but has not yet given the greenlight. Trump is waiting, to see if Tehran will agree to abandon its nuclear program.

The next few days (this morning Trump gave Iran two weeks) might be quite interesting.
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June 20, 2025 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Lol -It’s a bad day for Cass.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:06am
  - Cassandra
    
    Why?
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:01am
- AitchW
  
  Good grief, 60m penetration? That’s a big bang!
  On a slightly different note, I’m staggered that our media haven’t asked Trump about his plans for Matariki. I saw 4 stories on the front page of Stuff before I lost the will to live….
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:27am
  - kiwimike
    
    More Maori Apartheid
    surprised all the civil service doesn’t have a test on it for entry.
    wait that’s on Tikanga and Maori Ao
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:37am
  - Ian
    
    Not a single mention on the newstalkzb website. Only one mention in the ODT website. Just goes to show which MSM is more aligned than the other.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:51am
    - Bloody Dago
      
      Worried about ZB, the Hosk might get overwhelmed with creeping leftie bias that’s polluting the environment at SME. Could be a candidate for a You-Tube show like Dunco?
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:56pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The depth doesn’t matter, they recon the same area, I watched a practice on one of these bombs on Fox last night, the bomb dives into the ground, and there is no slowing it when it hits the ground, it enters as if it’s hitting water
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:49am
  - redeye
    
    They don’t explode until they’re already deep in the ground. Here is a pretty good video on bunker busting bombs;-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3WYC1eS08U
    
    And lol on the Matariki comment:-)
    
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    June 20, 2025 12:11pm
- herb1
  
  Trump has a habit of giving 2 weeks , in perpetuity.
  It’s almost like he forgets the last time he said 2 weeks
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:43am
- Philview
  
  The media criticise Trump for not going to war with Russia but call him crazy for threatening Iran.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:55am
  - leoj
    
    Taking Iran’s threat out will also stop funding of all the terrorist groups that surround Israel.
    
    A win win!
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:44am
    - mike
      
      How so? Do you really think that the regime will collapse and be replaced by a liberal democracy of some kind?
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:03am
      - Colville
        
        You mean a country where women can be educated and have a life out from under male domination?
        
        Dosent sound like a silly aim to me.
        
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        June 20, 2025 10:06am
      - Michael Johnston
        
        No, if the Iranian theocracy collapses, it will probably be replaced by a military autocracy after a period of violent instability. While a liberal democracy would be a good thing, it’s unlikely that Iran meets the cultural preconditions for that. Still, a secular military autocracy would likely be a significant improvement, especially for Iranian women. It would also be a more rational actor than a government led by Islamic fundamentalists. I can imagine few things more dangerous nuclear weapons in the hands of people who believe they will be rewarded in heaven for incinerating infidels. Mutually assured destruction fails as a deterrent in those circumstances.
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:23am
      - cmm
        
        “Do you really think that the regime will collapse and be replaced by a liberal democracy of some kind?”
        
        Nope, that is not likely.
        
        But maybe the next regime doesn’t run a bunch of proxy states as effectively as Iran does now.
        
        This isn’t about the security or welfare of the Iranian people but rather the security and welfare of others in the region.
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:39am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They will have all trade cut from them, they will have all funding taken from them, it was a disgrace that Biden took all trade barriers away from Iran, and worse he gave them billions ffs, Biden was funding the terror attacks around the middle east
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:52am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        mike: “Do you really think that the regime will collapse and be replaced by a liberal democracy of some kind?”
        
        Iranian people in general are quite civilised and educated so yes a it’s a reasonable possibility. If theocrats of one sort or another take over then no, another ME crap hole most likely.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        Isn’t that already happening?
        
        A growing number of serving Iranian military, police and intelligence officers are reported to have reached out to exiled Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi in recent days, expressing their intent to defect and offering allegiance to him.
        
        Article
        
        Israel and Trump need to be careful with a balancing act to support this overthrow.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:15pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Most Gulf states aren’t as nasty as Iran, and the Persian peoples are generally smart and inclined towards pro-social behavior, with a long history of academic excellence.
        
        Hard to imagine that what follows the Mullahs removal will be worse.
        
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        June 20, 2025 4:23pm
    - kiwimike
      
      and stop the teams they are depositing all over the West.
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:38am
    - Wandering Star
      
      What does taking out Iran look like? A nation of about 90 million people, the latest in a succession of nations subjected to the Israeli program of regional regime change at the hands of the Americans, suddenly thrown into chaos – how will this be managed?
      
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      June 20, 2025 2:29pm
- Inandout
  
  Cass, the MOP you refer to blast the first hole, then a second and so on go deeper. These bombs can only be carried by selected aircraft such as the Stealth. The digging skills of Iranians must be followed by shoring up the tunnels with wooden beams followed by concrete. In any case the old Mullah is 86 and most probably will escape to another country. He is not universally admired in Iran.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Do you really think the Ayotollah and his cohorts did not get out immediately when attacked ?
    He will continue to live in luxury for as long as his people suffer.
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:35am
    - Inandout
      
      Paulus, not immediately I wouldn’t think. There were apparently 3 planes that departed Iran a day or two ago but no one is sure who was on them. In any case Mark Felton gives an interesting account of the troubled history of Iran.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2eZKT81fWE
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:52am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The people are very anti the Ayatollah
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:54am
      - Wandering Star
        
        “The people are very anti the Ayatollah”
        
        How do you know this? What percentage are we talking about? It’s probably actually fair to say that Iranians much prefer the Ayatollah over the Israelis who are bombing Iran, and the Americans who will be soon.
        
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        June 20, 2025 2:36pm
- pb
  
  Looks like Elon was right. The Neocons still pulling strings. Tucker made the Chickenhawk Cruz dance like a marionette for the cameras. Exposed.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:16am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    That interview with Cruz was astonishing.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-zauikZPfk
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:34am
  - Wandering Star
    
    My favourite Ted Cruz responses were when he claimed that he didn’t know what the Israel lobby lobbied for, and when he denied that Israel had anything to do with Jewish people.
    
    Ted Cruz went to an Ivy League school and he was a top lawyer, so he’s not stupid – he’s just dishonest. He also didn’t seem to know much detail about Iran, yet he advocates for a war with Iran. It’s like his opinions aren’t even his.
    
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    June 20, 2025 2:40pm
    - pb
      
      Ted looks ill. How about his cartoon theology. I suspect Conservatism & Evangelicals worship Money over God. Put money in his pocket and he’ll sing hallelujah.
      
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      June 20, 2025 6:14pm
  - emmess
    
    Listen to the entire interview
    Cruz should have known some basic facts, but Tucker was (as usual) a total douche.
    That clip was out of context, multiple times he suggests that Iran should be nuked, if they tried to assassinate Trump.
    Cruz was extremely restrained in my opinion.
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:15pm
- All_on_Red
  
  I think he is waiting for the people who live in Tehran to leave the city.
  Which they have done. It looks deserted.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:30am
  - MCōs
    
    Sure
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:34am
    - All_on_Red
      
      You think people are still there after all the bombing?
      And they know the Nuclear Facilities around the city could be blown up?
      Wow
      Thats ok mate, if it happened here, you stay and we will all go
      Lol
      There is footage of the streets in the City showing its nearly empty
      Trump warned them to leave and they are
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:39am
      - Taieri
        
        There is footage of the streets in the City showing its nearly empty
        ————
        
        There’s a population of nearly 17 million in the Tehran metropolitan area. Where did they all go?
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:42am
      - mike
        
        You think over 10 million people have left?
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:52am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘Where did they all go?’
        
        Where all the rest go.
        
        London.
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:43am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      They have d sad showed highways with cars heading in the out bound lanes for a week, even some are driving out in the inbound lanes
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:56am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        They’ve gone north. It’s heaving, up the Caspian Sea way.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:04pm
- imalwaysright
  
  “Apparently the Iranians are digging deeper than the MOP’s 60 metre penetration so there’s a decreasing window of opportunity”
  
  Presumably the nuclear facility has a floor and a ceiling.
  What would be the point of lowering the floor level if the ceiling is still in its original position?
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:14am
  - Colville
    
    Any alteration to the existing building would involve 1000’s of cubic meters of concrete etc. You think that is happening right now? Does the place even have electricity?
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:36am
  - cmm
    
    Given the accuracy that they can deliver the MOP with, I would expect that they can make a 60 metre crater, then hit it again in exactly the same place to dig deeper.
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:41am
  - Philview
    
    I know nothing about nuclear facilities so would it be normal for a facility built for peaceful purposes to be deep underground?
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:08pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_Complex
      
      If you haven’t seen it for real then you might have seen it in Wargames (1984) and Star Gate SG 1.
      
      Again and again the same idea hold true, what I do is perfectly reasonable defense, what YOU do is outrageous offense.
      
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      June 21, 2025 12:09am
  - Jake Dee
    
    Wow that was dumb.
    How do mines work when they want to get at the minerals lower down?
    Do they just start digging up the floor?
    
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    June 20, 2025 5:53pm
- Ra Henare
  
  It seems to me. Having supported Trumps approach to politics, that he has lost focus?
  
  5 months in, he has achieved a lot. But I think the magnitude of the job has overwhelmed him.
  
  Dropping his DNI,National intelligence (headed by Tulsi Gabbard) under the bus re Iran’s nuclear bomb making.
  To support warmonger Netanyahu, is IMHO ludicrous.
  
  Especially when the head of The Atomic Energy commission says no signs of Bomb making activity,
  https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-iran-conflict-06-19-25-intl-hnk
  
  If Israel wants to remove Iran’s nuclear ability. Why is it then bombing Civilian buildings and oil refineries?
  
  Simple Answer, Israel wants regime change.
  Like it did with Syria and Iraq.
  
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  June 20, 2025 5:41pm
Simon

Two week war postponed by Trump. Good work. Still the best Prez. Hope it holds for ever. Suck it up war mongers. Sick clowns.
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June 20, 2025 8:03am
- kiwimike
  
  meanwhile Israel degrades the military and security apparatus.
  
  Israel should do all the refineries bar 1 small one for local consumption.
  China won’t be able to finance them through their oil (85%)
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:41am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Interesting.
    I read that Israel has enough anti missile capability to last 2 weeks at the current Iranian missile barrage.
    Dont know how true that is, but sounds reasonable as 14% of Iranian missiles are getting thru Iron Dome, as it can’t keep up.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/06/17/israel-iran-missile-conflict/
    
    Apparently, the Israelis are recalibrating the Iron Dome system to ignore missiles projected to land in non-built-up areas??
    That from a statement by IDF.
    
    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/israels-iron-dome-is-deliberately-leaking-missiles/
    
    That of course doesn’t include the Iranian missiles that did hit buildup areas and caused casualties.
    
    So expect USA to rush more anti missile systems to Israel and ??? to ship more missiles to Iran.
    
    This is another “”7 day”” war that could carry on for months. Reminiscent of some pundits claims for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    
    It’s another sunny, relaxed day in Cambodia, where the citizens couldn’t care less about the Middle East and A merry Car.
    
    They have their own local stoush (mainly political jingoism) between Thailand and Cambodia. Such skirmishes go back decades.
    
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    June 20, 2025 5:57pm
sirknz

Only 14 stories in Stuff today about this mythical Maori day off.

Hopefully that number will be close to zero tomorrow.
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June 20, 2025 8:11am
- I remember when
  
  Not mythical – star studded!
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:12am
- Dougal10
  
  I see there have been a couple of more stars added to our celebrations which makes it bigger than the rest of the worlds view of the constellation because bigger is better.
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:05pm
- John Loveridge
  
  You’re either a brave or foolish person, looking at Stuff.
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:40pm
  - sirknz
    
    Yes. Yes I am…
    
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    June 20, 2025 2:06pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

An interesting story, where directors are being held personally accountable and liable for the actions of their companies.

Leaving aside the merits of the case, what passes uncommented is the easy piercing of the corporate veil, as they used to say back in law school – ie, that companies have their own legal status and are separate from their owners.

Which will be a worrying precedent for its legal guardians, the day the Wanganui river floods and damages property by doing so.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360729581/forestry-directors-held-personally-responsible-cleaning-mess
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June 20, 2025 8:30am
- pdm
  
  Or the day Mt Egmont erupts again Bollocks.
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:53pm
David Garrett

Wouldn’t it just be ironic if the man who got elected promising not to get involved in any new wars instead prompted a thermo nuclear one? FWIW i agree with Israel trying to take out the Iranian nuclear program. They have made it quite clear often enough what they would do when they acquire nukes.
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June 20, 2025 8:36am
- Cassandra
  
  There’s an interesting column by Gerard Baker in The Times this morning saying precisely that, DG. He lists all the ME disasters and the eventual failure of a long list of presidents. The difference this time is that it’ll be three or four MOPs and, bingo, no more Ferdow. But note Trump is giving the mullahs ample time to concede.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:47am
  - MCōs
    
    The difference is there’s some hesitation before America goes in boots and all.
    They’re already in almost up to their eyeballs. Who pays for the relentless bombing by Israel of Gaza, Lebanon, Syrian, Yemen and now Iran?
    Btw
    What happens next if America drops its mega bombs?
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:07am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘Who pays for the relentless bombing by Israel of Gaza, Lebanon, Syrian, Yemen and now Iran?’
      
      Is there any other country in the world so relentlessly delegitimised by evil ideology and tyranny that it has had to defend itself from inception right down to the present .
      
      That is the injustice .
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:01am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “so relentlessly delegitimised by evil ideology ”
        
        Baked in to one of those ideologies as key dogma (as per their religious books). Apparently lefties refuse to read those books. Talk to people from the region and you find their heads are filled with nutty conspiracy theories about “The Joos”.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:14pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The us will not have boots on the ground
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:58am
- Simon
  
  The goal of Israel is to be surrounded by failed basket case countries which cant function. Further Israel wants mass immigration of those – who Israel cant live with as they are such terrible people – into Europe.
  
  Trump had lunch with Bannon who has calmed him down. Bannon as you say may have prevented WW3.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:51am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Wouldn’t Israel want growing, prosperous and peaceful neighbours much less likely to blame the (Mod – the word is Jews] for everything since their societies would be successes rather than failures?
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:54am
  - Don Beckett
    
    I dunno Simon. Saudi Arabia, Egypt & Jordan are reasonably prosperous & at least ostensibly friendly to Israel.
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:01am
  - Wandering Star
    
    “The goal of Israel is to be surrounded by failed basket case countries which cant function”
    
    Good observation. The pretext is always freeing the people or bringing liberty, but the result is always the same: a failed state that poses no threat to Israel. They call this the “mosaic” theory, where once coherent larger states are broken down by force into much smaller, dysfunctional units.
    
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    June 20, 2025 2:46pm
- All_on_Red
  
  DG
  Trump has said over 9 times over the past years that he will not allow Iran to have Nuclear Weapons.
  His position was known before the Election
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:32am
  - mike
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Then you will be relieved to know that no one actually thinks Iran is close to producing nuclear weapons.
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:43am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Well apart from Israel.
      And Mossad- who seem to have pretty good grasp of things in Iran, remarkably so.
      But they’re Jews so their view doesn’t count- right Mikey?
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:49am
      - mike
        
        How would you know what Israel knows as opposed to what Netanyahu claims?
        But you must be pleased that your latest slur passed moderation.
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:55am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Pot kettle black Mike, big time.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:16pm
      - John Loveridge
        
        I’m sure Israel and Mossad have a much more accurate knowledge of the situation than mike.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:43pm
    - David George
      
      No one?
      “The IAEA considered weapons-grade uranium to be 90% enrichment, while the IAEA estimated that Iran had reached 400 kg. of 60% enrichment, double what it was six months ago. This is mere steps from reaching the 90% threshold for weaponization,” Kurilla’s post said.
      
      The same post stated that if Iran had “sprinted” to enrich uranium, it could produce a single weapon within a week and 10 within three weeks.”
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:58am
      - mike
        
        Yes, some of the US authorities are falling in line now that Trump had publicly dissed the intelligence community.
        
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        June 20, 2025 10:06am
      - David George
        
        The International Atomic Energy Agency is, well, international; there are 180 members countries.
        
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        June 20, 2025 10:58am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Not quite.
        The Argentinian head of IAEA has just released an interview to say he was misquoted.
        Let that sink in.
        As Tulsi Gabbard stated weeks earlier Iran are NOT making a bomb.
        However Pakistan now May ? Assist.
        All Gulf states drinking water comes from desalination plants and any attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities will leave 3 days of drinking water. Pm of Qatar stated.
        It looks like Trump has been outfoxed .
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:10am
    - I remember when
      
      Thinks?
      Do you mean no one actually knows if Iran is close to producing nuclear weapons?
      Do you think may produce a very different answer.
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:27am
  - Wandering Star
    
    “Trump has said over 9 times over the past years that he will not allow Iran to have Nuclear Weapons.”
    
    This is completely disingenuous, because he always said he wanted to do it with diplomacy, not by a violent overthrow. But Israel’s attack on Iran has made US-Iranian diplomacy impossible, which was their intention, along with dragging the US into another war that may finish them off as a functional nation.
    
    The question is, will the US taking out Iran for Israel cost them one or two decades, along with single or double digit trillions of dollars? They’ve been in Iraq for two decades already at a cost of about 3 to 7 trillion USD (depending on the estimate), and Iran is three times the size of Iraq with a much stronger military.
    
    These are crucial considerations that few are even considering.
    
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    June 20, 2025 2:53pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Interesting discussion of the real geopolitik of the Iran Israel conflict from Simone and Malcom Collins
  https://youtu.be/DzKBQ0XFtCk
  
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  June 20, 2025 1:29pm
Scott

Josh Hawley brings some light on the question, was Joe Biden really in charge during his term as president of the United States?

https://youtu.be/lHcO_xpnsmc?si=VYNRlHDrbpdI9Kcg

The specific question is, did he give his authority to use the auto pen to sign the executive orders and the presidential pardons? Using the auto pen is OK as long as the president gives his authority to sign the document. But did he give his authority? Did he know what was being signed in his name?

The witness testifying to Congress says that there must be a trail of documents authorising each executive order and each pardon. Hawley is asking for the documents. That’s good. The documents must exist.

I think we need to know, was Joe Biden really the president? I think not. But time will tell. The question needs to be answered. 🤔
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June 20, 2025 8:41am
- ISeeRed
  
  Another critical issue that will disappear down the memory hole with a helpful shove from the legacy media.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:58am
- pdm
  
  Scott I still back Jill Biden as being Mrs. President and head decision maker during most of Joe’s term.
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:57pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    I think it was Obama. Just a suspicion, no proof.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:31pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Obama held the strings, Jill was the active puppet for the brain-dead one.
      
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      June 20, 2025 3:11pm
- Jethrod
  
  I just hope they turned the bloody thing off when he left.
  
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  June 20, 2025 1:20pm
Nukuleka

Every public holiday in New Zealand, from Christmas to Anzac Day, is tainted by the curse of rampant commercialism, the print and broadcast media brazenly trumpeting ‘Boxing Day Sales’ and ‘Easter Bunny Discounts’. Not one day of national significance is free of such commercial exploitation.

Except…

How fortunate we are to now have a newly- minded ‘special’ public holiday that is so spiritual, so infused with national reverence that no commercial business would dare sully its significance by tainting it by using it for commercial gain. Shudder at the the blasphemous notion of a hikoi- inducing ‘Matariki Weekend Sale’. Not even at Briscoes.

Please pass me the sick bucket.
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June 20, 2025 8:43am
- MCōs
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Are you suggesting Christmas and Easter should be canceled because they’re commercialized or Matariki should be canceled because it isn’t commercialized?
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:50am
  - mike
    
    Google provides a few hits for ‘Matariki sales’, so I’d expect it to become a thing.
    
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    June 20, 2025 8:54am
    - Nukuleka
      
      Good.
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:19am
  - graham
    
    It’s quite obvious to anyone what Nukuleka is talking about (and I agree with Nukuleka).
    
    [Mod – leave the personal garbage out of it]
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:16am
- Cassandra
  
  It’ll come. We’re having a Matariki Happy Hour in our old folks home this evening. Ladies a plate. Somewhere some marketing genius is working on the commercial angle. Hangi trucks?
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:51am
  - Keith White
    
    Roasted long pig, and plant-based moa fritters.
    
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    June 20, 2025 8:56am
  - Gravelroad
    
    You’re kidding.
    ladies a plate?
    Somewhat old fashioned even for an “old folks home”.
    What are the men bringing – dope to smoke?
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:04am
    - Cassandra
      
      Carrying the plate. Relax. Much of the cooking here is done by men. Ladies a plate is just a code, from our youth last century.
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:10am
      - Gravelroad
        
        So it’s some sort of “old folks home” code to identify who is available for after dinner “activities”?
        Nice.
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:16am
      - Cassandra
        
        Gravel: don’t read anything into this. “Ladies a plate” was a term used about a hundred years ago. It simply means “Bring some nibbles”. The average age here is 83. Some still playing golf and walking the course! Incl a 94 year old. Nothing else.
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:29am
    - pdm
      
      Gravel it used to be Men a Crate.
      
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      June 20, 2025 9:20am
      - Gravelroad
        
        Looks like Cassandra can’t see that I am just joking.
        I am quite familiar with “ladies a plate” from days gone by.
        I have older friends who proudly live in a “lifestyle village”. They take umbrage at any reference to retirement, old folks or care homes.
        They do enjoy the happy hour functions however.
        
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        June 20, 2025 9:36am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        A bludger’s 40th birthday invitation read;
        “Bring a plate, a crate and a parcel”.
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:00am
      - Flossie
        
        A work colleague sent the whole staff this invitation to a wedding a few years ago… ‘Bring a plate and your own drinks. Cash instead of presents.’
        Did NOT attend said nuptials!
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:43am
      - pdm
        
        Flossie heard of one of those `cash only no present’ Weddings in Hawkes Bay a couple of years ago.
        
        I think a niece or nephew got an invitation but, cannot remember if they went.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:02pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        I’ve been invited to two “cash as gifts” weddings gs. Both received NO CASH and no gift. Rude!
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:25pm
    - notreadyet
      
      some of us appreciate references to days past, nowadays it’s simply BYO but that is read as drinks only as so many younger woman now days struggle with filling a plate as references by working woman in next generation of my extended family getting a box delivered each week with the families meals ready to go except for mix and heat
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:47am
      - Flossie
        
        So you’re saying it’s the (working) woman’s job to provide the meals?
        
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        June 20, 2025 3:11pm
  - Mummy
    
    We’re having happy hour at home tonight but my brother will be bringing the dog and I guarantee the dog will stay for a sleepover and as the dog is already booked in for tomorrow night anyway, that will give bro and partner a lovely weekend without the dog. Nothing to do with matariki.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:08am
  - Observer of Life
    
    I’ve seen loads of adverts online and in my inbox for Matariki sales. It’s definitely a thing. .
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:23pm
- G152
  
  Funny how that used to be The Pleiades, also known as the Seven Sisters.
  It is nothing magical… a star cluster located 444 million light years away and useful for navigation….
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:54am
  - mike
    
    I don’t think Māori ever called it the Pleiades.
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:45am
    - yobi
      
      I doubt they ever called it matariki either.
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:50am
      - David Garrett
        
        Yobi: No, to be fair there is considerable evidence that the ancient Maori were aware of its appearance. However there is zero evidence – before about 2023 – that it was the reason for any kind of celebration.
        
        It was certainly not any signal to plant kumera, which is very frost tender.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:24pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Any connection to kumara would be to prepare the ground, so that organic matter could rot in time for the planting in Spring around August/September.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:34pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        And, in accordance with the time honoured 1000 year tradition of Matariki , 😆 😆 //
        I have today prepared my kumara patch ( 4m. long, x 0.9m wide) by digging in a bag of my home-made compost & sand, & cut a couple of last years kumara crop to get ‘tipu’ to grow in my greenhouse, which should take about 2 months, in time to plant in the Spring. 🙂
        
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        June 20, 2025 3:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Have you prepared a skull, or obtained a preserved head to set up on a post?
        
        Sometimes skulls or preserved heads were put on a post to preserve the mauri of a kūmara crop.
        
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/kumara/page-4
        
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        June 20, 2025 3:49pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        The only skull I’m having Maggy, is a couple of beers after my most exhaustive work. 😆
        
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        June 20, 2025 5:15pm
    - R
      
      Ancient Maori couldn’t read, so they didn’t know what the greater world called this long ago discovered group of stars
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:26am
    - Jethrod
      
      There is about 23 different names for the”Seven Sisters”!
      
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      June 20, 2025 1:24pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes. most ancient cultures had a name for them, including Aborigines in southern Australia.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:35pm
  - Inandout
    
    G152, there is a full moon every month and this affects the whole planet. Should we not celebrate this marvellous event?
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:01am
    - mike
      
      Here you go:
      https://balancegurus.com/location/new-zealand/wellington/weliington-full-moon-transmission-meditation
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:08am
  - David George
    
    Or “Subaru” to the Japanese, they even put out a car brand in recognition.
    Perhaps the Maoris could start up “Matariki Motors” but I think I’d stick with my Subaru.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:04am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Likewise – my 2007 Subaru Legacy 3 ltr. B Sport wagon is the best car I’ve owned, and I’ve had about 20 or so over my life.
      Previous best cars were 1969, 3 ltr. V6 Mk.IV Ford Zephyr,
      In Oz 1983 – 1988 – Nissan Patrol, & a 1979 Ford Falcon Panel Van.
      Of course my youthful carefree days, 1956 Ford Zephyr 6 convertible. 🙂
      Followed by a Morris Cooper S 970.cc.
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:13am
      - Colville
        
        2005 V6 petrol Prado for me.
        440,000 kms with only fuel, tyres and oil changes.
        
        (a radiator where a stone went thru it but I cant count that against the car)
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:44am
      - Jethrod
        
        Oh….
        F …IX
        O…R
        R….EPAIR
        D….AILY
        your 2nd best!
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:26pm
      - Inandout
        
        Don, it is accepted that after about 2012 most cars were ruined by the ever demanding emission laws. My Civic is within 2010 and runs like clockwork, no rubber timing belt, just a chain. It is generally accepted by mechanics that new vehicle bodies are cheaply made to satisfy exreme pollution laws. The number of makes that blow engines within the warranty period is scandalous.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:37pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Good one Jeth. 😆
        
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        June 20, 2025 3:17pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Its odd that Maori put such importance on a relatively obscure star cluster, with a varying timetable of movement, that appears to be of little practical value.
    
    To a people who had a lifespan of 30 years, the sun and the moon would have been of more use, had they thought to use geological markers.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:43am
    - David Garrett
      
      Imalways: Very well said Sir/madam.
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:25pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Its only practical use as far I can see was to mark the winter solstace ( Out by a couple of weeks).
      And this is visible for the East Coast only.
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:47pm
      - Allan
        
        No use at all for the solstice.
        
        This sop by Adern has a variable occurance that can happen anywhere in June or July.
        
        The solstice is always the 20/21 June.
        
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        June 20, 2025 2:14pm
    - Paulus
      
      The use of Matariki is ordained by Maori to show to the rest of us peasants how clever Maori are in discovering their own Pleiades
      – they knew Greek words long before the rest of the world.
      
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      June 20, 2025 1:15pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    444 light years, not million. AKA Subaru if you are Japanese.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:34pm
- kowtow
  
  Speaking of which the Herald is at it again , making stuff up.
  
  From the editorial ;
  
  “As we as a nation mark Matariki and herald the Maori New Year, many are gathering, as is tradition, to honour the dead , celebrate the present and look to the future.”
  
  ‘As is tradition’ . Oh come on , this is a Jacinda creation . Prior to her disastrous, ruinous administration the “nation” had had no idea of it.
  
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  June 20, 2025 8:56am
  - mike
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It’s a Māori tradition, so how would you know?
    
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    June 20, 2025 9:45am
    - NoFax
      
      Must be one of those secret traditions. So secret that no one ever talked about it until about 5 years ago.
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:25am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        I wonder what other Maori traditions there might be.
        
        Just so I can be forewarned, you understand.
        
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        June 20, 2025 6:59pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      So how would you know Mike?
      
      You write about Māori as if they are a homogeneous nation of people, with a shared tradition. They are not and were never a homogeneous society with a collective philosophy and set of systems.
      
      Already we are seeing fragmentation around Matariki with tribes saying it is not their celebration and they had other astrological phenomena that were important to them.
      
      So Mike who are these Māori that you are expert on?
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:11am
      - David Garrett
        
        Pineapple: You need to remember Mike is an expert on absolutely everything. Early NZ history, penal policy, taxation, even oil and gas exploration.
        
        We are blessed to have such a fount of eclectic knowledge among us.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:18pm
      - AitchW
        
        DG, knowing your fondness for correct language, might I be so bold as to point out that the correct expression is “font of knowledge”, not “fount”.
        
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        June 20, 2025 12:34pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Oh you are brave to correct DG. Fount is like an explosion of knowledge. Font is what you type on here with.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:31pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Aitch: I stand corrected dear Sir! Did that on my phone, and couldn’t be arsed correcting it in that little panel that one has to use when amending a comment on a phone.
        
        But well done for picking it up!!
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:42pm
      - AitchW
        
        Jethrod, I beg to differ.
        The following from Google would suggest that there is more than 1 meaning for “font”.
        https://www.google.com/search?q=font+of+all+knowledge&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-nz&client=safari
        
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        June 20, 2025 4:07pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I think you will find that DG is correct to refer to the “The Fount of Knowledge”.
        
        Such was the (translated) title of a treatise by the monk, John of Damascus – written around 743.
        
        The Greek Title – Pēgē gnōseōs, – translates as The Source of Knowledge, but the work is also known as “The Fountain of Knowledge, and The Fount of Knowledge”.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Damascus
        
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        June 20, 2025 4:16pm
    - Colville
      
      I am sure there are dozens of references from the media that can be found from as little as say 10 years ago?
      
      *tumbleweeds*
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:46am
    - John Loveridge
      
      I grew up in the thick of a mostly Maori community, Mike. I never once, ever, heard mention of matariki in all the years I lived there, from birth to 25. It’s a very recent invented tradition.
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:49pm
    - Jethrod
      
      Being told Ad Nauseum!
      
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      June 20, 2025 1:29pm
  - R
    
    The junior cadet wrote today’s herald editorial, based on a scrawled note left by the regular editor as he/she left to go celebrate at the family beach condo
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:30am
- Flossie
  
  I know I have had an email (at least one) advertising “Matariki Weekend Specials”!
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:51am
- wilderbeast
  
  I had coffee with an Iwi leader about 10 years ago who claimed to have invented Marariki and was evidently making “shit loads” out of the racket. It seemed rather far fetched to me but when I consulted my authoritative NZ history texts and my Raupo Maori dictionary and couldn’t find a single reference to it I wondered if he was actually telling me the truth.
  
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  June 20, 2025 2:33pm
Simon

Every council and police force, right now, must appoint an individual responsible for preventing the destruction of any documentation specifically relating to the Pakistani rape gangs before the inquiry begins
https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1935789211417973042

Rupert Lowe the PM the UK needs
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June 20, 2025 8:46am
- imalwaysright
  
  As opposed to NZ where at least one facility destroyed records required by the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care and nobody even blinked.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think the NZ Law Society President, Frazer Barton, went on ~~holiday~~ leave for a few months….
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/abuseincare/541027/nz-law-society-president-frazer-barton-back-after-abuse-record-destruction-investigation
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:22am
    - John Loveridge
      
      Spot of gardening?
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:50pm
- Inandout
  
  Simon, the evidence most likely has been shredded or wiped from computers. Starmer has had many months to undermine this inquiry and suddenly makes this announcement.
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And many of the offenders have started leaving the UK.
    
    Bashir did not attend the current trial after he absconded while on bail before proceedings got under way.
    
    It can now also be reported that Mohammed Shahzad, 44, Naheem Akram, 48, and Nisar Hussain, 41, were remanded in custody in January.
    
    Police received intelligence that the three taxi drivers were planning to leave the UK and had already paid a deposit for their transport.
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd2rld9mj2o
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:16am
Jethrod

But Mangatangi day is nearly holy!
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June 20, 2025 8:50am
Yvette

No sovereignty, no settlement?
Northland iwi leader rules out settlement under this Government after minister’s comments –
[Tipene said] on Tuesday the Government would not agree to Treaty settlements that disputed whether the Crown is now sovereign. Under the previous Labour Government, an initial deed of settlement with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui was drawn up that included the first case of a clause agreeing to disagree on who holds sovereignty.

[Tipene said] “If the Government is going to progress on that basis [of not allowing such clauses], I will be the first one to say it is impossible to progress anything on those grounds. Our people have been very, very clear that we want to be proactive and we want to move forward but that is a bottom line that accepting the Crown is sovereign is totally unacceptable.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/northland-iwi-leader-rules-out-settlement-under-this-government-after-ministers-comments/TWBW34E4ORDLDLHKIDYHJDQQBQ/#google_vignette.

[14 November 2024] Luxon will miss the parliamentary debate – enroute to Peru for the APEC summit instead – but he called a morning media conference where he criticised the legislation in perhaps his strongest words yet.
“You do not go negate, with a single stroke of a pen, 184 years of debate and discussion, with a bill that I think is very simplistic.”
Seymour has previously criticised National’s position, accusing its coalition partner of being afraid to engage with difficult issues.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/533772/christopher-luxon-gives-scathing-appraisal-of-treaty-principles-bill-ahead-of-first-reading

It appears Christopher Luxon’s refusal to support something that simply said the Government has the right to Govern (despite there seeming to be now an equivalent to customary right that it does), means apparently the true discussion that should have arisen from ACT’s bill, will now arise from Maori settlements themselves.

And Crown negotiators must realise that if Te
achieve any recognition in the sovereignty area, Ngai Tahu and other iwi with top-up clauses, will press rights for equal governance – as well as the fiscal considerations they already automatically get if another iwi settles with some consideration that they didn’t get?

So it would seem ACT’s proposed Treaty Principles legislation, although dumped, may not need resurrection, as Maori by their sovereignty claims will raise it from the dead themselves.
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June 20, 2025 8:59am
- Burtland
  
  a settlement without sovereignty – what delicious irony
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:40am
- imalwaysright
  
  [Mod – don’t copy and paste replies you’ve already written]
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:19am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s great, a huge budgetary saving
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:02pm
Cassandra

I read The Times each morning. It’s sort of centrist, midway between the Guardian and the Telegraph. A good read. I read all three then go to the happy hour in the old folks home. Busy day.

This morning has a column suggesting the US Army watch a Trooping the Colour for a guide to marching in step and another on just how a MOP strike on Ferdow might play out. From a military planning perspective the MOP article is a classic. I wish I could copy it.

Trump’s two week grace period for the Iranians to cave is to allow the second carrier group time to deploy from Asia and the preparations on bomber base Diego Garcia to be sorted, it seems to me.
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June 20, 2025 9:07am
- mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Was that a dig at Trump’s pathetic birthday parade?
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:47am
  - Cassandra
    
    I suppose it was. Some of the marchers were out of step. Although I doubt that the IDF, the SAS, the Ukrainian army and the Chechens are much good at marching either.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:08am
    - mike
      
      Expect the White House will order the troops to sharpen up before next year’s attempt to emulate a May Day in Moscow.
      
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      June 20, 2025 10:10am
  - NoFax
    
    The army’s 250th birthday. Just a coincidence that Trump and the Army share the same birthday. Of course, the parade was organised and planned under Joe Biden with his approval, but I am sure you either don’t care or couldn’t be bothered to look into it – best to keep to the talk points. Do you think it is also some grand conspiracy that next year will be the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence?
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:31am
    - Ghost
      
      No, it wasn’t, the parade was trumps idea
      
      Here is the Permit that was approved in 2024
      
      Here is the permit approved in 2025
      
      4 16
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      June 20, 2025 10:39am
      - Ghost
        
        I guess 6 people hate trump so much they would rather give credit for the parade to a man who had nothing to do with it.
        
        For those that don’t want to give credit to this administration for the parade
        
        The parade was added just a few weeks ago to the planned celebration of the Army’s birthday
        
        Article
        
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        June 20, 2025 11:42am
  - rouppe
    
    What’s pathetic is going on and on and on and on about the parade being about his birthday.
    
    You’re suggesting that a country shouldn’t celebrate the 250 year anniversary of their army just because the sitting President has his birthday on the same day.
    
    I fully understand you don’t like Trump, or conservatives, and think Arden was our savior and all that. But it would be nice for you to sometimes be an adult in your commentary.
    
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    June 20, 2025 12:37pm
    - Inandout
      
      rouppe, couldn’t have said it more succinctly but by harping on about the march the fact the US had no effective President from 2021 is sidelined.
      
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      June 20, 2025 1:51pm
    - Ghost
      
      However the actual birthday parade the day before was nice to watch. The king looked good.
      
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      June 20, 2025 2:07pm
Simon

Benefit dependency in New Zealand has reached an all-time high, with over 409,000 individuals receiving a main benefit in December 2024.

While seasonal rises are typical due to students entering the system, this figure marks the highest absolute number ever recorded, surpassing even the 1990s peak.

Currently, 12.6% of the working-age population—one in eight people—rely on welfare, the highest percentage since the Global Financial Crisis.

https://centrist.nz/new-zealand-benefit-numbers-hit-record-high/

Working age.
1 in 8 on welfare. Nearly 1 in 5 working for govt.

This is structural decline.
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June 20, 2025 9:10am
- ISeeRed
  
  Add 900,000 pensioners and 450,000 public sector workers and that’s nearly two million adults dependent on the other two million. This. Is. Unsustainable.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:39am
- lifesgood
  
  How many on benefits are new immigrants, I wonder?
  
  18 4
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  June 20, 2025 10:18am
  - Ghost
    
    You have to be a permanent resident or a refugee
    
    11 2
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    June 20, 2025 10:26am
    - kiwimike
      
      There you go, right there…..
      
      8 2
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      June 20, 2025 10:53am
- Quail
  
  Yes, working for the Government means spending for the Government!
  Not for the entrepreneurs , businesses, farmers etc who pay the #@“#@ taxes.
  WfG are using money gained under duress .
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:45am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Ain’t it amazing how an animist holiday has been foisted on the nation. If a few short years ago I’d been told that New Zealanders would be getting up at the crack of dawn to chant at the rising of a star cluster, I’d have laughed out loud. As for rivers and volcanoes being granted legal personhood – words fail me.

Yet another crock brought to us by Jacinda Ardern, with the twist that this one is paid for by employers.
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June 20, 2025 9:22am
- ISeeRed
  
  Trying hard to care. There are many critical, structural problems facing this country. Another public holiday isn’t one of them.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:44am
  - R
    
    Another public………YES it is ISeeRed. Just have a look at it our productivity stats!
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:38am
    - ISeeRed
      
      A new recent public holiday hardly moves the needle when it comes to measuring the myriad of other factors dragging down our productivity over the last half century or more.
      
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      June 20, 2025 6:57pm
- mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You might be upset when you realize that Christmas and Easter are also based on ‘animist’ traditions.
  
  5 40
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  June 20, 2025 9:49am
  - Eastlander
    
    They are not. You should refrain from embarassing yourself by trotting out the usual arguments internet atheists advance on this subject.
    
    25 4
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    June 20, 2025 10:15am
- MCōs
  
  Going by your reasoning there’s a case to be made for holidays on Good Friday, Christmas Day, Anzac Day, Waitangi Day (for most people). New Years Day and King’s Birthday are marginal. The significance of the various anniversary days are meaningless to most people. Boxing Day is ridiculous.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:54am
  - MCōs
    
    When I worked for the MOW Roading Division I heard of a bloke drove some sort of vehicle around the country testing the roads.
    He always made sure he was in a particular province when it was their Anniversary Holiday.
    When this came to light he was congratulated on his initiative and sacked forthwith.
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:09am
- kowtow
  
  NMTB
  
  Remember National’s Finlayson was the one who ‘negotiated’ making a river a person in 2017 .
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:54am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    If making a river a person to silence the radicals then all good, as long as they don’t bring back separatist services then who the hell cares
    
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    June 20, 2025 12:07pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      “If making a river a person to silence the radicals then all good,….”
      
      The radicals, since they were successful in forcing the government to make a river into a person, will be emboldened to do whatever the hell they want to do in the safe knowledge that they will be allowed to.
      
      Why wouldn’t they?
      
      And how silent have the radicals been since the river became Mr W Anganui?
      
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      June 20, 2025 1:30pm
artemisia

Scoring the coalition government’s progress against its own targets

Two of the 3 education targets are ‘At Risk’ – at or above expected level for Year 8s for maths and reading. Maths currently at 22%.

22%, really? Surely have to be looking hard at what and how their teachers were teaching. And why parents were not banging on the school’s door.

Changes are in place now but that maths target is a long way off, and most of the same teachers are still there. Hopefully not failing so badly.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/564664/scoring-the-coalition-government-s-progress-against-its-own-targets
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June 20, 2025 9:36am
- Cantabrian
  
  Wait until the changes to the Education and Training Acty are implemented – all conventional measures of educational achievement will be destroyed. MIchael Laws spoke with Elizabeth Rata yesterday about a clause in the draft Bill that will basically make all education Maori-centric and require Boards of Trustees to ensure that all the plans, policies, activities and pratices adopt the tikangi of the local Iwi and include te Ao Maori in every aspects of their school’s fundtions.
  Michael’s editorial:
  https://www.youtube.comwatch?v=bhXxUgb3Nlg&t=3s
  
  Michael’s interview with Elizabeth Rata (short form – the full interview is Members only): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5gl29epVHA
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:56am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes I commented on this yesterday. Luxon appointed a woke Minister of Education. But where are Seymour and Peters?
    
    13 1
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    June 20, 2025 10:36am
  - DimChappie
    
    No, anyone can listen to the full Rata i/v:
    
    https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/elizabeth-rata-on-treaty-sabotage-being-proposed-for-education-system
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:58am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  22%, really? Surely have to be looking hard at what and how their teachers were teaching.
  
  This Maths lecturer explains clearly why her children in Year 7 & 8 learnt nothing
  in their maths classes:
  
  The teacher’s role seems confined to that of a facilitator – a telltale sign of adherence to a particular educational philosophy. My son recounted his frustrations: “Our teacher doesn’t offer much explanation; she simply assigns problems for us to solve in groups, and every third lesson, she checks in to see if we have any questions.”
  
  https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/10/maths-teaching-fails-pupils-by-ignoring-cognitive-science-findings/
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:02am
  - artemisia
    
    Is that description of the teacher’s process what was prescribed to happen, or was the teacher not teaching? I get pupil driven learning was (is?) in vogue but the description shouts ‘not teaching’. And clearly not much learning happening either = kingdom of the blind..
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:15am
    - imalwaysright
      
      A friend is a teacher aide to several teachers at a college.
      She has been asked by two of them to mark tests even though she’s not qualified.
      She was told by one that if it looked like the pupil had made an effort, regardless if they were correct, to mark them as “Achieved”.
      According to other teacher aides, this isn’t unusual.
      
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      June 20, 2025 2:01pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    MW- that sounds very much like my experience of secondary school in the 1960’s.
    Except for the bit about solving problems in groups and the teacher checking to see if we had questions.
    The College I attended was a traditional school where students were required not to talk in class.
    If you didn’t understand the maths, too bad.
    I don’t recall much explanation about the meaning of algebra or geometry at all.
    You were somehow meant to work it out for yourselves.
    Many didn’t.
    
    6 2
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    June 20, 2025 10:25am
    - AitchW
      
      Our 6th and 7th form maths teachers was a freaking nightmare. He’d solve long complex equations on the blackboard and expect us to understand the process by osmosis.
      And I too attended an old fashioned school where talking in class was dealt with by either detention or caning.
      
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      June 20, 2025 11:52am
    - Nobby2
      
      Gravel. My secondary school education experience sounds the same as yours. Algebra was a nonsensical mystery to me and still is 65 years later.
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:57pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I loved maths – including algebra, geometry, trignometry & calculus. I went to Sacred Hart College in Auckland 1955 – 1959.
        
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        June 20, 2025 1:42pm
  - mogg
    
    At the time when my wife left teaching, she was being told what to say in the classroom and the exact words she had to use.
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:52am
- R
  
  Not failing so………the teachers who don’t have such knowledge have an annual 12 weeks holiday to take appropriate TUTORING
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Tribes still fighting over the Chatham Is.

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2025/06/18/battle-over-tino-rangatiratanga-on-rekohu-wharekauri-back-in-court/
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June 20, 2025 9:55am
- Swifty
  
  Any idea what hurt, harm or grievance the Crown’s proposed settlement with Ngāti Mutunga is supposed to address?
  
  4 1
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  June 20, 2025 12:39pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think Ngati Mutunga reckon the Crown stole the Island (annexed in 1842) from them.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/479512/chatham-islands-iwi-sign-treaty-settlement-agreement
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:13pm
    - Swifty
      
      Rather ironic given the genocidal events they themselves perpetrated just a few years before.
      
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      June 20, 2025 3:13pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        On that basis, the SS should be suing Russia for the return of Konigsberg.
        
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        June 20, 2025 7:10pm
Vidar

Incredible to watch Israel take the fight directly to terrorist-sponsoring Iran. About time someone other than the U.S. stood up. I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends with a few American bunker busters finishing the job.

With any luck, the Iranian people will finally rise up and end their medieval regime.

What a year it’s been — terrorist proxies getting wiped out one by one. Israel isn’t playing games. And Iran? Isolated. Friendless. Just flailing.

The mental gymnastics from leftists defending Iran — a regime that crushes every group they claim to care about — is pathetic. And watching some on the right spiral into hysteria has been just as revealing.

This conflict won’t be won with U.S. boots on the ground, and it doesn’t need to be. But apparently, it’s the “end of MAGA” if you listen to Tucker Carlson — the same guy doing fluff pieces about life in Moscow.

[Mod – unnecessary]

God bless Israel. Keep going.
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June 20, 2025 9:56am
- mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Your imaginary God is keen on more war deaths, apparently. What would his son, the Prince of Peace say about it all?
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:12am
  - Vidar
    
    [Mod – stop with the personal abuse]
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:15am
  - kiwimike
    
    Mikey
    
    I believe he said “1 sword was enough” after healing the ear that was cut off…..
    
    But you can ask him yourself on the Last day.
    I am sure he will oblige
    
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    June 20, 2025 10:59am
    - Don Beckett
      
      “Those who live by the sword, will die by the sword”.
      
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      June 20, 2025 12:45pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Those who beat their swords into ploughshares generally end up ploughing for those that kept their swords
        
        8 2
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        June 20, 2025 1:40pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Yours is a common belief that has been held through the history of man. In Noah’s days the world was like today, full of evil doers that denied God. The truth came flooding in.
    
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    June 20, 2025 11:17am
    - NothingLeft
      
      That’s not what the fairies in my garden tell me.
      
      2 4
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      June 20, 2025 1:41pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        You been drinking too much of that Leprechaun juice ? 😆
        
        5 1
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        June 20, 2025 3:23pm
OlderChas

Mrs Older was transporting her year 9 granddaughter yesterday and the child said ‘Grandma, World War 3 has started hasn’t it.” Mrs replied no, but it might if things don’t get sorted out.” Response was, “But my teacher told us yesterday that it had already started.”
Nothing wrong with the teachers today!
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June 20, 2025 9:59am
- Vidar
  
  Get her to ask her teacher in two months how world war 3 is going.
  
  The reply will be – huh?
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:10am
- cmm
  
  WW1, Americans show up almost 3 years late.
  WW2, America showed up only 2 and a quarter years late.
  WW3, … maybe they’ll be there for the start?
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:54am
  - Colville
    
    WW2 wasnt a world war until Pearl Harbour.
    Before that is was a European war with a totally separate Japan/China war going on.
    
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    June 20, 2025 12:35pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      That’s a very debatable argument, Colville.
      
      8 2
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      June 20, 2025 12:59pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes, the Japanese invaded China – Manchuria in – I think – 1936. There were American mercenary pilots flying P.38’s helping the Chinese. Pearl Harbour was not the first action in the Paific & ‘far east’. It was the action that dragged USA into the war.
        
        5 1
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        June 20, 2025 1:46pm
      - Colville
        
        The yanks had been active in Asia forever. I concede that it was incremental with Adolf foolishly attacking Russia in mid 41 being another key point.. . But until USA and Japan were in the game it wasn’t a global conflict. Germany USA and Japan would have had the world’s largest navys back when boats really were a large part of the game.
        
        5 1
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        June 20, 2025 2:02pm
      - Jack5
        
        re Don Beckett at 1.46…
        
        Chennault’s 100 P40’s of the “Flying Tigers,”
        in action in China before Pearl Harbour and according to the Wikipedia article, successfully using “dive and zoom” tactics picked up from Russians in the Chinese Air Force:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers
        
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        June 20, 2025 3:25pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes, one of the Flying Tigers was Greg “Pappy” Boyington who wrote a book ” Baa Baa Black Sheep” which I read when I was about 15 – a great story, & he continued in WW 2 with the Marine flying corps flying Corsairs.
        A great read.
        
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        June 20, 2025 5:35pm
  - MCōs
    
    What we now call WWI was the Great War at the time and involved basically Europe, the British Empire and the Ottoman Empire
    Nothing to do with America until German U-boats attacked their ships
    Similarly the term WWII was not used until late 1941 when Germany declared war on America. Until Pearl Harbour it too had been a European plus the British Empire/Commonwealth
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:24pm
    - Warren Murray
      
      It was a World War because the combatants from 1914 had territorial coverage that extended to every continent. USA’s entry was just another combatant, but Canada became involved in 1914 along with French and British territories in the Western hemisphere.
      
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      June 20, 2025 2:00pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Japan was one of the Allies in WW1.
        
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        June 20, 2025 7:13pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xluGB1vlUVA
Protests In Spain.
Protestors want the PM gone. And his corrupt Spouse Begoña Gómez? His Brother too being prosecuted. His direct circle of Ministers, colonising Court, Telefonica, Indra and so on. Spanizuela in the making- final part ongoing.
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June 20, 2025 10:12am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbJL9lncsnA
Australia’s Future with Tony Abbott – War with Iran?
On this episode, former Prime Minister and Distinguished Fellow to the Institute of Public Affairs, Tony Abbott, and Daniel Wild discuss Israel’s successful attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities; the future of the AUKUS deal; and the changes needed to fix the Victorian and New South Wales divisions of the Liberal Party.
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June 20, 2025 10:12am
- [email protected]
  
  Watched about half. Interesting but not enough to continue. Thought that the interviewer should not have been continuously sipping on his drink during the interview.
  
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  June 20, 2025 6:21pm
I remember when

So Jacinda will only answer questions lodged in advance at her book signings.
I suspect she wishes she had had the answers in advance when she was PM.
Or, perhaps she did and didn’t like them.
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June 20, 2025 10:24am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She tried to have questions by media asked prior, that’s why she refused to go on Hosking, because she was like a passion in the headlights every Monday. Mike Mike Mike Mike
  
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  June 20, 2025 12:12pm
  - Nobby2
    
    G, I hope you mean possum. The thought of seeing her having a passionate encounter in the headlights make my blood run cold.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:01pm
  - pdm
    
    `G passion in the headlights’
    
    You do mean snogging your girlfriend down at the river or some other secluded place and then the whole world lights up with headlights – don’t you.
    
    Oh the memories.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:14pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    More correctly, there was no Q and A, only the illusion of such.
    
    Ardern decided what she wanted to say, created questions that as a reply allowed her to say what she wanted to say, and then gave the questions to the interviewer.
    
    Very much like rigged quiz show “twenty one” in the 1950s. All theatre.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:32pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      “Very much like …” every press conference she ever gave to the NZ “media”.
      
      8 1
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      June 20, 2025 2:24pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        imalwaysright,
        
        I have no doubt you are probably right, however I cannot confirm as I have not watched every press conference she ever gave. In fact I probably watched only 1 or 2POT speeches “in full”, if that, because she lied and presented fake stats.
        
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        June 20, 2025 4:44pm
Tasman devil

If Jacinda was blindsided by a question she invented two phrases to sort matters:

1 I will come back to you; and
2 We need to have that conversation.

Then, if 1 and 2 never happened she made an announcement of an announcement.

What was not then announced was palmed off to consultants to come back to her and have that conversation.

Jessica followed by Tova anybody?
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June 20, 2025 10:52am
- JackRabbit
  
  TD, you forgot #3. “I absolutely refude the premise of that question.”
  
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  June 20, 2025 1:35pm
Chuck Bird

I have just heard that Israel has targeted the Ayatollah.
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June 20, 2025 10:53am
- kiwimike
  
  Chuck
  They should have on hour 1, day 1.
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:01am
  - rouppe
    
    The original claim was to prevent nuclear weapon development. So they couldn’t.
    
    Targeting the Ayatollah is clearly regime change. Has the narrative changed?
    
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    June 20, 2025 12:44pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Who has relocated to a nice spiderhole on the border with Afghanistan.
  
  It makes sense to keep leadership alive when there is still potential for negotiated peace resolving the main issues. If not then may as well assist the promotion someone more open minded.
  
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  June 20, 2025 1:43pm
Chuck Bird

I think Iran would be a good place to put the troublesome people in Gaza.
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June 20, 2025 10:55am
- kiwimike
  
  Rubbish
  The Persian don’t need a bunch of nutcases attacking their society.
  They are traumatised enough already.
  
  No send them back to where their families originally came from, Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:03am
  - Wandering Star
    
    “The Persian don’t need a bunch of nutcases attacking their society. They are traumatised enough already.”
    
    And yet they are presently being attacked by Israel.
    
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    June 20, 2025 2:58pm
    - kiwimike
      
      Wandering Star
      
      The Persians aren’t being attacked by Israel as you well know.
      The Jihadist Muslim Regime is.
      It is their military and Nuclear leaders who are being killed.
      
      By doing that Israel is giving the persian People a better chance at over throwing their muslim overlords..
      
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      June 21, 2025 1:32am
- Mod88
  
  The Persians will want nothing to do with those Arabs. Nothing at all.
  
  15 1
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  June 20, 2025 11:22am
  - CJames
    
    Remember just under half of Iranians aren’t Persian. We don’t hear much about them as the mad mullahs are really into killing them at every opportunity.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:17pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      70 % Christian.
      
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      June 20, 2025 5:02pm
- rouppe
  
  Persia was one of the conquerors of Palestine.
  
  They left, or were pushed out by the next conqueror.
  
  None of those former conquerors want it back.
  
  8 2
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  June 20, 2025 12:46pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, Alexander the Great – then the Romans took over I think around 50 BC.
    
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    June 20, 2025 5:28pm
MCōs

Someone was pointing out the other day the comparison between power generation sources
Things have changed today
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
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June 20, 2025 11:20am
- cmm
  
  Yes things change every day for wind and solar. It’s called “The Weather”.
  
  And that is the biggest problem with it – it is not reliable.
  
  Middle of the day atm and solar is generating 63MW – about 1/3 of its nameplate capacity. In a few hours that will crash to zero.
  
  If you want reasonably high levels of reliability out of wind and solar then you need to massively over-design the system and add a couple of weeks of battery storage making an extremely expensive system absolutely prohibitive.
  
  If you look at geothermal generation that is reliably ticking along. Yesterday 1088MW when I looked, right now 1071MW – so within a couple of %. Come back at 2 am tomorrow and it will be much the same.
  
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  June 20, 2025 11:51am
  - JackRabbit
    
    If you want reasonably high levels of reliability out of wind and solar then you need to massively over-design the system and add a couple of weeks of battery storage…
    
    Which is reinventing the wheel since nature does a much better job of it by using solar energy and wind power to create the “Precipitation Cycle” and store the resultant “potential energy” in lakes, with a continuous flow of “dynamic energy” in form of river flow.
    
    Not using this “free energy” is tantamount to insanity. Just as bad as striving to kill off farming and produce meat and veges in a lab.
    
    Every communist knows that to take control of a population you have to first take control of the “means of production”.
    
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    June 20, 2025 1:06pm
pdm

Here is a question for Kiwibloggers.

How long will Simon Watts survive once PM Luxon gets back to New Zealand.

Two recent transgressions will surely see him gone as a Minister given the way Luxon has dumped on other Ministers for lesser sins.
https://nominister.wordpress.com/2025/06/19/has-pm-luxon-given-local-government-minister-simon-watts-a-good-kick-in-the-nuts/#comments

https://nominister.wordpress.com/2025/06/20/wow-look-at-this-nztu-revelation/

My guess is Andrew Bayly will be reinstated to take over all of Watts’ Portfolios.
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June 20, 2025 1:20pm
Jack5

Legislation alarms Laws …

Education legislation being quietly moved through Parliament imposes Maori-culture indoctrination of all NZ children, Michael Laws warns on the video channel, The Platform.

“Appalling sabotage … designed to ensure NZ isn’t part of the Western world,” says Laws.

Laws alleges senior public servants in the Ministry of Education through the bill intend to sabotage the Government’s educational objectives.

He’s talking about the Education and Training Amendment Bill (No. 2).

“A denial of every other ethnicity in this country and their cultural or ethnic beliefs,” Laws says of it.

He argues the bill usurps NZ’s world-leading 1877 education legislation, which set the standard for NZ education for the 148 years since then.

I assume this is the section of the bill that Laws is focusing on – 127.2.e:

…to ensure that the school gives effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, including by —

(i) achieving equitable outcomes for Māori students; and

(ii) working to ensure that its plans, policies, and teaching and learning programmes reflect local tikanga Māori, mātauranga Māori, and te ao Māori; and

(iii) taking all reasonable steps to make instruction available in tikanga Māori and te reo Māori:

Laws on the bill:

https://youtu.be/bhXxUgb3Nlg?si=-Iv-ykVyikLKXkGk

The bill:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2025/0140/latest/d7001403e2.html
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June 20, 2025 2:35pm
- [email protected]
  
  There are very few Maori language speakers, even among Maori. I would rather see kids learn English and math. Our grandkids attend a Catholic school that does teach a bit of Maori but it is not over the top.
  
  Our 8 year old grandson keeps asking me to teach him more “coding”. He’s learning the C programming language. Loves watching the results on a small educational PCB with a small LCD display.
  
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  June 20, 2025 6:01pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  And it’s happening under a “centre-right” government.
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:49pm
Jack5

Is ACT going to follow up on its talk of putting up candidates in the local body elections?

Its input would be welcome in Christchurch.

David Seymour explains to Chris Lynch on a position by the Christchurch City Council:

https://youtu.be/VW5SmaInwpQ?si=BgrEaV3dSJ1xRzzH

And here’s what he’s talking about:

https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360729815/acting-pm-compares-christchurch-council-staff-putin
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June 20, 2025 2:57pm
Keith White

“The Watcher in the HOA is awake. The Gates are barred and the Key won’t work. Trump has locked up the Gardeners and the Nannies, and the Pool is up to the Concrete with leaves and debris.

“The Cook was repatriated, and the Mother-In-Law, Sullen and Ominous, won’t go to Daycare. There are Older and Fouler things in the deep recesses of the Pantry.

“ICE have cars outside the Bridge and Tennis Courts. Triggly and Shynaquuette and LoneLezz were arrested five days ago…

“We cannot get out. The End comes… there is no more rap, there is only Beethoven and — yes, hymns, hymns in the deep. They are coming. We cannot get out. We cannot get out!”

– on an Ipad found when bulldozing the DNC HQ ruins.
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June 20, 2025 3:50pm
- NothingLeft
  
  DNC financial ruin coming suspiciously soon after Trump’s defunding of USAid.
  
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  June 20, 2025 4:27pm
Sparrow

Just watched the TV1 news. Naturally a lot of Matariki coverage. I should point out I have no problem with the use of Aotearoa by itself or with New Zealand. I do know others have difficulties with the use of Aotearoa only. On the news they put up the greetings from King Charles which clearly used the term Aotearoa New Zealand. However when the journalist read it out she left out New Zealand. Was this done purposely? Are we being brain washed into acceptance ? Let’s have a referendum on the name like we had with the flag. Its easy three alternatives. Lets vote.
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June 20, 2025 6:52pm
- pdm
  
  Of course we are being brainwashed and the likes of Luxon, Potaka and Goldsmith are not going to step up and stop it.
  
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  June 20, 2025 9:33pm
Rumblestrip

I see NZ put a pause on about $20 million aid funding to the Cook Islands (nearly 10% of the country’s budget!), in response to them snubbing NZ and breaking diplomatic commitments by cosying up to China.

In response, Prime Minister Mark Brown called NZ’s action “patronising” and “inconsistent with modern partnership.” Pretty amazing arrogance from a beggar who thinks he can be a chooser. (“You’re no longer giving me free money? How patronising!”)

I would be perfectly happy for us to halt aid permanently, remove automatic NZ citizenship and passports to Cook Island residents, and let them find out what life is like with their new best friends.
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June 20, 2025 8:10pm
Quail

Who is paying for the Matariki promotions?
And why is that promotion at a level that is downright intrusive particularly on radio?
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June 20, 2025 8:38pm
Colville

So the Missus and me to go Napier to Chch in two weeks time to go to a concert. 1300. Fucking awesome. Sydney is literally 100 more expensive . The accommodation is a way cheaper tho!
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June 20, 2025 9:37pm
- RichardF
  
  I’d rather drive and get the ferry at that price.
  
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  June 20, 2025 10:35pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Drive to Wellington, fly from there. Way cheaper.
  
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  June 21, 2025 7:50am
kiwimike

China gave nukes to Iran?

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/21488/china-iran-middle-east-war

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/21488/china-iran-middle-east-war

Is this why 3 Chinese 747 slinked into Tehran yesterday ?
To take them out back to Beijing ??
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June 21, 2025 1:51am
kiwimike

and China has helped the Houthies too.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/21573/china-helping-houthis-attack-us
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June 21, 2025 1:57am

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