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September 8, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 September 2025

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Cassandra

This is from Richard Haas, a prominent US foreign affairs official:

“A form of unilateralism to be avoided is the declaration from concerned outsiders—namely Australia, Canada, France, and the United Kingdom—of their intention to recognize a Palestinian state this fall if there is no cease-fire in Gaza.

Although these powers view their actions as helpful, in practice they are anything but. The Israelis and the Palestinians must reach an accommodation, and Palestinians must internalize that a state of their own, if Israel is to allow it, cannot be delivered by others without compromise on their part.

Adding to the problem is that the choice to recognize a state of Palestine now appears to reward Hamas rather than a moderate alternative.”

Haas recommends that Israel work towards a viable Palestine state in its own interests. Note that he is Republican orientated.

Our Foreign Affairs Minister should note this. He should state NZ’s position: NZ will recognise a Palestinian State when the hostages are released, Hanams is disarmed and Israel’s right to exist unmolested is accepted.
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September 8, 2025 8:00am
- Cassandra
  
  Hanams = Hamas. Old eyes + autocorrect.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:29am
- cmm
  
  ” Hanams is disarmed and Israel’s right to exist unmolested is accepted”
  
  That is a fundamental opposition to all things that Islam stands for. You might as well ask them to eat pork.
  
  Even if Hamas was destroyed (whatever that really means), another group would pop up immediately.
  
  Longer term, Gaza is less of an ongoing threat. Gaza was important when they were limited to short range rockets with sugar-based propellants (eg. Qassam). Now they have long range, low cost, missiles which can operate from over 1000 km.
  
  Yes, Gaza is a thorn in Israel’s side, but there are bigger problems than that.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:49am
- Simon
  
  Do a deal with war criminal Israel? Maybe when the leaders have been arrested, convicted and locked up. This Luxon’s position about the only thing he has got right
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:07am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    War criminal? What war crimes are you referring to Simon?
    
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    September 8, 2025 10:54am
    - Simon
      
      Check with Luxon
      
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      September 8, 2025 11:59am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        It’s you that are making the assertion in this forum. Do explain Simon.
        
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        September 8, 2025 3:50pm
Damocles11

When you read about this killers truly unspeakable, vile crimes then we should all be very angry at our ‘justice’ system and the fact that this killer has been allowed the freedom to perpetuate more death and unimaginable trauma. This is one of the worst cases I’ve read about, a terribly maimed victim says he should have been charged with manslaughter; this was mass murder.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/triple-fatality-killer-drug-driver-revealed-as-gang-member-acquitted-for-murder-of-doctor/PLA6XSECUFCOJPDOSACLXA36SY/
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September 8, 2025 8:09am
- Swifty
  
  I remember the Dr Teppett case – it was huge in NZ at the time, for those not around then.
  
  I think it was the senselessness of it that shocked most New Zealanders, coupled of course with the vileness.
  
  That both offenders were not found guilty of murder just added to the revulsion.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:47am
- Simon
  
  Prisons are a moral and fiscal failure: National party policy.
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:07am
  - AitchW
    
    Where would you put the murderers, rapists and child molesters?
    
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    September 8, 2025 10:21am
    - ISeeRed
      
      The Auckland Islands in shipping containers.
      
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      September 8, 2025 10:48am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Air holes optional
        
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        September 8, 2025 12:36pm
    - kowtow
      
      On a gallows, where else.
      
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      September 8, 2025 2:17pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    You are misrepresenting what English said, bloody hopeless
    
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    September 8, 2025 8:37pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Simon: “Prisons are a moral and fiscal failure: National party policy.”
    
    Seemed pretty obvious to me that when Billy Boy said that he meant that size of the prison population was an indication of the moral decay of society and that the prisons required because of that moral decay were bloody expensive.
    
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    September 8, 2025 8:55pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yeah, but Thompson is open to a restorative justice process, so that’s alright then.
  
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  September 8, 2025 12:36pm
artemisia

New Zealand income growth one of the worst in the world 37th out of 43. Productivity?

BNZ chief economist Mike Jones …. “It’s hard to go past low productivity growth”.

Westpac chief economist Kelly Eckhold …. “Low levels of productivity growth” and referred to “the sorts of factors that you think might boost productivity.”

We have plenty of smart people, lots of taxpayer funded research, many successful businesses. Some best in the world ag including advanced hort robotics. And yet what are, and where are, these productivity growth factors that might have stopped us sliding to the bottom of that ranking. And why are they not happening?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/572373/new-zealand-income-growth-one-of-the-worst-in-the-world
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September 8, 2025 8:13am
- cmm
  
  We’re losing high earners at the rate of over 100 a day and are replacing them with a stream of Uber drivers.
  
  This has been going on for years. You won’t find productivity in that.
  
  A few boutique companies involved in robotics or space do not make an economy grow. What makes the economy grow is converting those technologies into local manufacturing.
  
  Almost all our top tech talent ends up being bought out by overseas entities and then the benefit to the local economy becomes very low. Almost nothing beyond a few high earners paying tax in NZ.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:31am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Apparently the growth industries are dairy farming and tourism. Not hugely skilled … and the people doing it agitate to import cheap foreign labour on temporary visas.
    
    Manufacturing doesn’t have a great history in NZ. Small remote market and all that.
    
    I don’t have a solution 🙁
    
    Go figure.
    
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    September 8, 2025 8:41am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Mr Boag, what knowledge, qualifications and experience do you have to back up your opinion that dairy farming and tourism are “not highly skilled”?
      Will wait.
      
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      September 8, 2025 8:54am
      - cmm
        
        C’mon Gravel.
        
        Certainly there is skill needed to run a dairy farm, as with any other business, but dairy farm workers are not very high up the skill ladder.
        
        Are you really going to make the case that attaching milking machines to cows udders is up there with being an electronics technician or such? Heck, I once helped out in a milking shed with 10 minutes on the job training.
        
        Tourism is much the same. Sure, it takes skill to develop manage a business, but the tourism workers are generally functioning at the bottom end of the ladder.
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:13am
      - Local Miller
        
        Back in SA we lived out in the boondocks and got our milk directly from the farm, often unpasteurized. And I’m sorry to say cmm, but there’s a lot more to dairy farming than attaching the milking machine. The one woman dairy farmer had an extensive knowledge of bovine health requirements and related diseases and milk processing from the milking machine through to producing cheeses, yoghurt, etc.
        I would put her skills at the advanced level. While a general labourer may be fine to bring the cows in for milking, the dairy farmer needs much higher skills.
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:45am
    - Swifty
      
      One of the key solutions is attracting large amounts of foreign capital to invest in the production and growth of high-value goods and services.
      
      With Captain’s Calls, a high and complex regulatory environment, anti-growth political parties sitting in the wings and mafia-like Iwi needing to be paid off before giving their consents – we will remain in a state of steady decline.
      
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      September 8, 2025 8:55am
      - cmm
        
        You can only develop capital if:
        * there is some business worth developing/expanding
        * the local conditions make it attractive to do so.
        
        On the second point, we’re already disadvantaged by being on the arse end of nowhere making for transport problems etc. That is then made worse by local government regulations etc etc.
        
        On the first point, what business opportunities are there in NZ? We have a tiny population (ie. so no market). Every product we develop must be developed with an eye to export.
        What does NZ have that is special and worth exporting (besides logs and dairy)?
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:18am
    - cmm
      
      Dairy farming etc only employ very small numbers of people.
      
      NZ herd sizes are large (average about 450 cows) and employ few people. In EU the average herd size is around 60 cows and in UK it is around 320 cows.
      
      Yup, NZ is not well situated for bulk manufacturing, but could potentially make money out of high value manufacturing (eg. bespoke electronics, military, aerospace).
      
      We have the sorts of skills that could make massive money out of military and aerospace, but I suppose NZers don’t want to build weapons.
      
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      September 8, 2025 8:58am
    - R
      
      IAN, your comment indicates clearly, that you have had little or no exposure, nor experience of farming or rural life in general. Get out and look over the rural fences, try reading some farming research literature. You will become enlightened by the experience
      
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      September 8, 2025 9:04am
      - Ian Boag
        
        I didn’t say farms were easy to manage/run – just that the labour employed to do it (see cmm comment) is not usually highly skilled. May well be hard working and conscientious but ….
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:28am
      - R
        
        IAN reply to your 9.28 am comment. Once you have looked over the fences I mentioned, you will note that rural farming workers are highly skilled at their chosen career; and are very practical people, able to problem solve ‘while on the run’, skills I haven’t noticed in general with the urban population of NZ.
        Spoiler, I am not a farmer nor farm employee.
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:46am
      - Ghost
        
        Spoiler, I live in rural town. The imported workers on the large dairy farms here aren’t highly qualified. Spoiler, the imported workers for the crop farms at harvest time aren’t highly qualified. I will admit the sheep farmer I know is highly qualified, but alas, he’s a doctor and the two sheep farms he owns are his hobby. I did know a dairy farmer that was also highly qualified, but alas he was a retired commercial pilot so his qualification weren’t in farming
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:53am
      - pdm
        
        IB – what about those tat start as farm workers and grow to be shareholders and farm owners.
        
        You denigrate the industry and the hard working people on Dairy Farms.
        
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        September 8, 2025 10:54am
      - Swifty
        
        Ghost, skilled does not necessarily equate to ‘qualified’ especially if you’re referring to qualifications obtained through tertiary education.
        
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        September 8, 2025 12:16pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Dairy not hugely skilled? No you are talking about just one part of dairy farming the milking, you have to be skilled or at least trained to know feed door dairy cows, supplementary feeds cross several different types, then there is genetics, then weaning of the calves, then calving our self, then rotating and replacing stock, there are several other aspects that you would not have a clue about or dairy let alone any other types of farming.
      
      Perhaps you should do some homework, because clearly you have got a clue at all
      
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      September 8, 2025 8:43pm
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    Do you have data to back up the uber drivers claim? Is New Zealand literally importing unskilled uber drivers at scale as part of the immigration program? Maybe but it would be good to see data rather than anecdotes.
    
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    September 8, 2025 9:57am
    - cmm
      
      Many of the people coming into NZ are low skill, especially compared to the people we’re losing. Many of those people become uber drivers or such.
      
      Yes, there are a few doctors and engineers sprinkled in there too, but they are few. People with skills have options. People with options tend to go to higher paying economies.
      
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      September 8, 2025 10:09am
      - Nikola Donatello
        
        “Many of the people coming into NZ are low skill, especially compared to the people we’re losing.”.
        
        Yes you are just repeating yourself. I asked whether there is data to substantiate your claim.
        
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        September 8, 2025 1:21pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Why are 19 out of 20 Uber drivers foreign then?
      
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      September 8, 2025 10:51am
      - Nikola Donatello
        
        I don’t know. Why?
        
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        September 8, 2025 1:21pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They are migrants, you can not simply get a person here to drive uber, only skilled migrants for a certain industry where the country has not capacity can be brought in. Sheep shearer’s are one such industry they has people here now, sadly class 5 truck drivers is another but many Indians can hardly communicate
        
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        September 8, 2025 8:47pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Someone I know in Auckland lost his managerial job and was scrambling to find income in between jobs, lest he lose his house. I suggested Uber Eats delivery driving for temp immediate income. Nope. They were overflowing with drivers. No openings.
        
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        September 8, 2025 9:01pm
- Swifty
  
  Labour’s labour productivity in 2023, after six years of their economic meddling and interventions, was -0.9%.
  
  It’s going to take years to recover from that.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:34am
  - artemisia
    
    How much of that Labour productivity decrease was due to more rules and regs, plus all the DEI.
    
    To me, simple productivity increases come from dropping stuff that is not needed, coupled with using fewer resources to deliver more (or even same) outcomes.
    
    Take back office functions for example for starters. Who is asking staffers and their bosses what they do all day. And how. And why. And what happens if they stop doing it. Sound like DOGE?
    
    Dairy – assume a decent productivity / profit uptick with once a day milking even if less milk is produced.
    
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    September 8, 2025 11:11am
  - NothingLeft
    
    civil service has doubled since 2000, pop has only gone up 50%, white collar productivity in industry is up about 50% in same period.
    
    Civil service should therefore be able to get by with half the current 60k civil servants with satisfactory levels of service.
    
    The cost to govt of keep that useless extra 30k civil servants on the taxpayers tit is probably more than $10billion a year in higher regulatory burden, associated tax spend on busy work, and lost tax from having them not working in productive industries.
    
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    September 8, 2025 1:56pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The main factor that drives productivity is capital investment. NZ is not a particularly attractive place to invest. There are lots of tax and regulatory reasons for that. Also, when NZers have money to invest, they like to put it in residential property not productive activity.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:48am
  - RoboRob
    
    We don’t have much in the way of a venture capital market. In the US, a new business idea with merit can access billions of dollars of venture capital from private companies that specialise in this area. In NZ you need a government grant and bank mortgages on your personal house.
    
    This lack of ready capital kills the opportunity for new innovative businesses. Companies like xero make the grade by virtue of the people involved already having cash and access to it via other connections. Our stock market it tiny and venture capital usually is used to get a small company to the point where it can list, so the stock market doesn’t fill this gap either.
    
    Eventually our KiwiSaver schemes MAY fill some of this gap. Simplicity has started its own real estate company for example. However this is, yet again, in private housing. KS schemes aren’t likely to risk money on risky investments, but that’s what is required.
    
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    September 8, 2025 8:59am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Bit hard to find numbers for how many Xero staff work in NZ. Best estimate I could find was about 1000 out of a total headcount a bit over 4000. Give or take a bit. Time was there were lots more than that in (for example) freezing works ….
      
      Shutting the Winstone pulp operation and gutting Kinleith leave a bit of a hole. Paper making at Kawerau went years ago. Nelson is doing it hard right now too.
      
      Not looking great.
      
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      September 8, 2025 9:38am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Add to that a growing demand for separatism that is getting worse because the governments for the past couple of decades have pandered to the separatists rather than eliminating them.
    Luxon can have all the high level meeting he wants with overseas investors – but until the issue is resolved, he’s farting against thunder.
    
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    September 8, 2025 9:05am
    - imalwaysright
      
      DB
      Yes, it seems to be overlooked that potential investors have the same access to information about the state NZ is in as we do.
      
      Who in their right mind would risk investing in NZ with the probability that they will first have to pay an extortion money instalment to Iwi and then deal with a bureaucracy that could hold you financially hostage for years, as Trans-Tasman Resources have been.
      
      Add to that a substandard education system and substandard graduates and the exorbitant costs of materials, construction, taxes and rates…
      
      Then there is the low quality of Parliament and Government .
      
      Why would anyone invest in NZ?
      
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      September 8, 2025 10:22am
  - PurplePen
    
    “The main factor that drives productivity is capital investment.” Add to that, plentiful cheap energy or electricity. In a few decades it will come down to which country has the lowest cost energy supply and plenty of intellectual capital.
    
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    September 8, 2025 10:55am
- Local Miller
  
  Hard work isn’t rewarded with decent wage increases or bonuses. You are lucky to get a 2.5% increase every 2nd year or so, even in a business that is growing fast and being one of the top technical staff with very satisfied customers. Back in SA the standard in most businesses was an annual increase equal to inflation as a base line. If you underperformed you got less than that, and if you performed better than expected you got more than the inflation rate.
  After 20 years in NZ, working hard and well in 3 different companies, my motivation to be more productive tends to stay at home on Monday morning. I’m just sick and tiered of doing a good job and seeing the company/share holders growing rich while the staff who make it happen get very little. And it doesn’t help to change to another company because they all seem to be using the same playbook.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:50am
  - balanced
    
    As I’ve mentioned a few times, NZs low productivity is caused by the big business NZ cartels which are supported by politicians of various shades.
    
    There is no incentive to improve productivity when you can raise prices at will.
    
    In 2015, whilst inexplicably removing the criminal sanctions for cartel behaviour contained in the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, Paul Goldsmith claimed…
    
    “In weighing up the benefits of criminalising cartel activity, the Government had to consider the significant risk that cartel criminalisation would have a chilling effect on pro-competitive behaviour between companies.”
    
    WHAT?
    
    Companies in markets with few competitors, given the green light to collude on pricing, is good for competition?
    
    So why isn’t the current minister of consumer affairs Scott Simpson fixing this heinous Goldsmith subterfuge?
    
    Simpson has a close relative who owns a supermarket.
    
    Which leaves fixing cartels the sole responsibility of the ardernesque Nicola Willis.
    
    Come on Mr Luxon, NZ needs an intelligent and moral finance minister and a minister of consumer affairs who is not conflicted, to re-criminalise cartel behaviour, reduce our extraordinary cost of living, and improve productivity!
    
    Lower grocery, banking, electricity, insurance, plumber, electrician, council bills will lead to a land slide National party victory next year.
    
    So why not?
    
    MIller. Cartels also keep wages low. No need to poach good workers when you can raise prices at will.
    
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    September 8, 2025 9:11am
    - Gussy Fink-Nottle
      
      balanced – keep up mate.
      See: Commerce (Criminalisation of Cartels) Amendment Act 2019
      
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      September 8, 2025 3:49pm
  - Paulus
    
    As a Teacher you get an automatic rise of, I believe $5,000 each year, along with what the unions get for them.
    
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    September 8, 2025 11:39am
    - Groggy
      
      Utter Bollocks
      
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      September 8, 2025 12:35pm
    - Nikola Donatello
      
      I am sure that you could check that claim. It is wrong.
      
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      September 8, 2025 1:35pm
    - kiwimike
      
      Paulus,
      sorry upticked you, fat fingers.
      
      Just to check is that base hrly rate?
      Understaffing levels?
      MOE who dick around ?
      
      sorry bit biased, got family who are Teachers and Doctors and Cops, thankfully no MP’s….
      
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      September 8, 2025 4:56pm
- balanced
  
  As I’ve mentioned a few times, NZs low productivity is caused by the big business NZ cartels which are supported by politicians of various shades.
  
  There is no incentive to improve productivity when you can raise prices at will.
  
  In 2015, whilst inexplicably removing the criminal sanctions for cartel behaviour contained in the Commerce (Cartels and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, Paul Goldsmith claimed…
  
  “In weighing up the benefits of criminalising cartel activity, the Government had to consider the significant risk that cartel criminalisation would have a chilling effect on pro-competitive behaviour between companies.”
  
  WHAT?
  
  Companies in markets with few competitors, given the green light to collude on pricing, is good for competition?
  
  So why isn’t the current minister of consumer affairs Scott Simpson fixing this heinous Goldsmith subterfuge?
  
  Simpson has a close relative who owns a supermarket.
  
  Which leaves fixing cartels the sole responsibility of the ardernesque Nicola Willis.
  
  Come on Mr Luxon, NZ needs an intelligent and moral finance minister and a minister of consumer affairs who is not conflicted, to re-criminalise cartel behaviour, reduce our extraordinary cost of living, and improve productivity!
  
  Lower grocery, banking, electricity, insurance, plumber, electrician, council bills will lead to a land slide National party victory next year.
  
  So why not?
  
  MIller. Cartels also keep wages low. No need to poach good workers when you can raise prices at will.
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:06am
  - balanced
    
    Mod. Can u pls remove this duplicate post
    
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    September 8, 2025 9:49am
- Simon
  
  One in three working age either on permanent welfare or employed by various state entities. Then in the private sector tens of thousands employed to manage government regulation. Then mass importation of low wage third world
  
  Then they wonder why NZ has a productivity problem.
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:10am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Then in the private sector tens of thousands employed to manage government regulation. ”
    
    The bureaucracy see themselves as the arbiters of what citizens will be permitted to do.
    
    We have to pay them a lot of money to even ask permission to do something.
    They are the biggest hindrance to existing and potential business.
    
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    September 8, 2025 10:32am
- R
  
  NZ’s productivity will never improve, until at least 52% of the voting population change their mindset from promoting welfare, to encouraging personal responsibility.
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:38am
- Paulus
  
  Almost no growth but one of the highest Minimum Wages in the OECD.
  Don’t make sense !
  Does in very left wing country.
  
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  September 8, 2025 10:12am
  - AitchW
    
    Hmmm the people complaining about the cost of groceries are often the ones demanding ever increasing minimum wage or the so called “living” wage.
    Join the dots.
    
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    September 8, 2025 10:24am
    - R
      
      Aitch…joining the dots requires some cognitive skill, to see the big picture. Since the advent of e-games, small children haven’t had access to such mind developing picture books!
      
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      September 8, 2025 12:52pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360814797/jacinda-ardern-i-made-mistakes-i-was-human
People literally begging Stuff to “shut down the comments” on this puff piece for Ms Ardern.
Comms staff at Labour HQ on overtime.
Free speech all good until they don’t like it.
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September 8, 2025 8:35am
- greybeard
  
  Seeing that photo, with no prior warning, is not good for the digestion.
  
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  September 8, 2025 8:57am
- Scooter
  
  She must be feeling the heat from her refusal to front at the COVID Royal Commission. She says she’s human but she certainly wasn’t humane towards those she locked out of the country and those stopped from seeing dying loved ones or going to funerals. She still doesn’t get it and I doubt she ever will.
  
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  September 8, 2025 9:44am
  - Keith White
    
    I think she gets it and cannot stand it and wishes we would all go back to loving her as Big Socialist Sister instead of despising her as Communist Cruella De Jabber.
    
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    September 8, 2025 9:58am
  - imalwaysright
    
    The one thing that the Covid Commission must conclude is that medical crises should never be managed by politicians or medical professionals.
    
    They should have input, but should never have control.
    
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    September 8, 2025 11:07am
    - Groggy
      
      So who do you advocate should manage them??
      
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      September 8, 2025 12:36pm
      - R
        
        Health administrators of the clerical management calling, implementing the legislated pandemic regulations.
        
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        September 8, 2025 12:55pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        That’s the big question Groggy.
        A group/committee.
        It would have to be dominated by people from the private sector to prevent the use of the crisis for political purposes, as the last one was, and to disable the public service ideological and operational inertia.
        Meetings also have to be televised live.
        Also publish the actual Influenza Handbook that Ardern and Bloomfield told us didn’t exist so that the public can crosscheck against the committee’s advice.
        There are many on this site more qualified than me at this sort of thing, just my thoughts.
        
        2 1
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        September 8, 2025 1:11pm
      - Nikola Donatello
        
        You do not need to wonder. The 2010 Influenza Plan is a public document.
        
        Source: McGuinness Institute https://share.google/Z6o25cIErjMs64tVO
        
        3 1
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        September 8, 2025 1:44pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        ND
        That’s a handy guide, unfortunately the definition of “Pandemic” has been changed.
        It used to be primarily an assessment of the seriousness of the disease and then the transmissivity; it now means that a disease is merely widespread.
        
        It would be now be possible to declare widespread hay fever or the common cold to be a pandemic and therefore trigger plans that are clearly medically , socially , and economically nonsensical.
        
        1 1
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        September 8, 2025 4:18pm
- cmm
  
  Her whole schtick was that she was super-human with an awesome intuition. Therefore she was the Chosen One to tell us what to do.
  
  Now that that has fallen flat, she’s pulling the “but I am only human” card.
  
  It is a pity she didn’t recognise that she was only human at the time and rather let people have a bit more autonomy.
  
  30 2
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  September 8, 2025 10:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Schtick indeed.
    
    The legacy media (and others) seemed to think this “youngest” , wunnerfullest was akin to the Second Coming and could do anything .
    
    Did the power and adulation of all the hype they generated ( venerated) around her , including that bollocks of the image being shone on big buildings etc go to her very less than average head.
    
    6 0
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    September 8, 2025 2:25pm
  - kiwimike
    
    Let us have our Autonomy…
    there fixed it for you…
    
    1 0
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    September 8, 2025 5:00pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Yes, people do make mistakes. Unfortunately just about everything Ardern did was a mistake, and most people don’t make that many. And New Zealanders are suffering now, and will continue to suffer for quite possibly, another 10 years.
  
  5 0
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  September 8, 2025 3:52pm
PaulP

140 previous convictions and the Judge thinks he’s about to turn his life around because he killed his dog.

FFS, the guy is a violent thug that loves the thug life. How can these judges not see they are being played???

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/head-hunter-dragged-pet-to-death-while-fleeing-police-in-auckland/WTIGGM3W3JGF5PAZRIBYZNQYXQ/
29 0
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September 8, 2025 8:47am
- Keith White
  
  That judge is a real piece of work. Look at his previous “judgements”. Should be called Bruce – as in ‘Turn-’em-loose Bruce’.
  
  18 0
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  September 8, 2025 9:59am
- cmm
  
  “How can these judges not see they are being played???”
  Quite likely they do know it.
  But it is far better for them socially to just go with the flow than it is to rebuke a gangster, then face the ire of your social circle down at the club.
  
  15 2
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  September 8, 2025 10:00am
  - greybeard
    
    Not played – threatened.
    
    5 3
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    September 8, 2025 10:26am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes, a note in the judges home letterbox asking for lenience for the defendant is extremely effective.
      
      5 3
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      September 8, 2025 11:10am
      - greybeard
        
        I am not sure how to take your comment, but let me make myself clear: for years I have been of the opinion that the leniency in sentencing criminals in NZ has been because the judges and/or their families have been threatened by the gangs.
        
        5 1
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        September 8, 2025 3:59pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        That’s what I’m saying Grey, I’m sure every judge is compromised by gangs finding out where they live.
        There are plenty of gang sympathisers in the bureaucracy .
        
        0 0
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        September 8, 2025 5:11pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Either that or they are becoming inherently more dippy.
        
        0 0
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        September 8, 2025 9:17pm
Southern Raider

I sincerely hope the current Police operation and death isn’t involving Tom Phillips.

If it does we have robbed the children of the only real parental figure in their lives.

The root of this whole saga doesn’t seem to be Tom (who I’m not holding up as a saint), but OT, the Family Court and the Police.

There will be lots of opportunities over past couple of years where officials could have made a more rationale decision and this would never have happened. Yet I suspect the officials never really cared about the children and it was all about siding with the mother and demonising the father.

If Tom was really a monster and the kids were in danger the local community would have ratted him out ages ago, but they didn’t.
20 13
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September 8, 2025 8:55am
- Ghost
  
  Only person responsible for what happens to this criminal is himself.
  
  In a statement shortly before 9am, Commissioner Richard Chambers confirmed one man has died and a police officer was been seriously injured after an incident in Waikato overnight.
  
  “Police were called about 2.30am to a Waitomo address after reports of a burglary at a commercial property.
  
  Article
  
  11 9
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  September 8, 2025 9:11am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I gave you an uptick.
    
    1 10
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    September 8, 2025 9:21am
- Crafty
  
  Bullshit, what kind of father figure denies his children an education? Makes them help him in committing crime? That bastard deserves to have the book thrown at it, assuming he wasn’t killed today. How can anyone possibly tolerate what he has done?
  
  14 11
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  September 8, 2025 9:34am
  - Southern Raider
    
    I think your living in a bubble of a perfect world outside of the family court and OT.
    
    Something dramatic kicked this all off.
    
    We had a loving father who had sole custody of his kids, no criminal background and not a single person raised any previous concerns about him or the welfare of his kids.
    
    Then it seems the Family Court and OT decided to move from sole custody to shared custody with the mother who by all accounts everybody but officials had major concerns about.
    
    Are you suggesting if you were a father you would let a mother with massive addiction and other issues along with OT be trusted with your kids?
    
    20 4
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    September 8, 2025 9:46am
    - Crafty
      
      I do have some sympathy for parents in that situation but imagine if every parent who had an issue with custody went on the run with their kids and involved them in a crime spree. That’s what he has done, how is he any better as a parent?
      
      7 5
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      September 8, 2025 10:10am
  - cmm
    
    While I do not condone what he has done, I will pull you up on one thing: that he is denying his kids an education.
    
    Only the most naive person believes that education can only happen in school. I don’t know whether he is home schooling in any way, but his kids are learning all the same.
    
    These kids are learning resilience, something that will likely help them in the future. Of course they might also be learning a bit of criminality which likely won’t help them.
    
    18 6
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    September 8, 2025 9:58am
    - Crafty
      
      Oh yeah what a great education, isolating them from other kids, teaching them how to break in and steal stuff. I feel sorry for his kids, they will be broken people after what he has put them through.
      
      11 9
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      September 8, 2025 10:14am
      - cmm
        
        So many people see education as a one way street with fatalistic outcomes.
        
        This thinking is particularly evident in statists- people who think that only the state, and state-sanctioned entities, can impart education and knowledge.
        
        Nonsense. People can choose to be educated at any time in their lives. These kids don’t have accept the victim mantle and be “broken”.
        
        These kids have done things that many would have thought impossible. They have survived in some harsh conditions. Yes, there will be some negative consequences from that, but no doubt some positives too.
        
        12 8
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        September 8, 2025 10:59am
    - Paulus
      
      So are they any better in terms of life education than the abject failure of our current education system.
      
      6 4
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      September 8, 2025 10:15am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yep. Fair question Paulus. Probably depends on the school though and closely correlated, the wealth or lack thereof of one’s parent/s.
        
        0 0
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        September 8, 2025 9:23pm
    - waikatosinger
      
      I have often found those home schooled to be exceptional people.
      
      3 2
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      September 8, 2025 4:39pm
      - greybeard
        
        So exactly how many people do you know to have been home-schooled ? Me, I know none. You, apparently “often”. Please expand.
        
        1 0
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        September 8, 2025 7:28pm
- R
  
  Tend to agree, except re Police. They are the meat in a beurocratic mismanagement sandwich
  
  6 0
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  September 8, 2025 9:55am
- Philview
  
  The person shot a police officer first so is responsible for their own demise.
  
  11 0
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  September 8, 2025 10:11am
  - Jack5
    
    Philview’s The person …is responsible for their own demise.
    
    Jeez Phil, it was the kids’ father – him, he, his.
    
    0 1
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    September 8, 2025 5:43pm
    - Philview
      
      When I made that comment the shooter wasn’t confirmed. We know who he is now.
      
      0 0
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      September 8, 2025 6:44pm
- AitchW
  
  No, “we” didn’t rob anyone of anything.
  The dead man shot at the cops when disturbed during a robbery. Guaranteed not to be life affirming….
  
  6 0
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  September 8, 2025 10:27am
- Keith White
  
  The Daily Mail online confirms it is him.
  
  1 1
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  September 8, 2025 12:25pm
- kowtow
  
  Has Phillips robbed a family of a son or father .
  
  He’s shot a police officer. Someone serving the community you think are heroes for not ‘ratting’ him out .
  Zero sympathy.
  
  ps Can you really speak for the “local community” ‘not ratting him out’.
  
  0 3
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  September 8, 2025 3:07pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He shot a cop ffs
  
  0 0
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  September 8, 2025 8:53pm
RoboRob

Shane Jones, NZF, was talking on energy in the weekend. I dont mistake Jones for someone who gets things done, he is more of a talker, but he really nailed the key issues with this coalition government in general and energy specifically.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/572324/shane-jones-talks-up-plan-to-power-kinleith-paper-mill-talks-down-coalition-partners
11 2
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September 8, 2025 9:02am
- balanced
  
  2nd ever uptick from me robo.
  
  Jones say “drill baby drill”
  
  But who’s drilling or digging after 2 years of listening to Shane’s mantra?
  
  No one.
  
  5 4
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  September 8, 2025 10:33am
  - Skippytony
    
    And no rational person will if they are done over by another “Captains Call” as soon as the Government changes.
    
    12 0
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    September 8, 2025 11:19am
    - Jack5
      
      Yep, a cold, dark winter with power cuts will be needed to sort out Woke-Green energy primitivism.
      
      3 0
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      September 8, 2025 5:51pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Stock up on warm clothes and bedding. Make yourself idiot proof.
        
        2 1
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        September 8, 2025 9:34pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Gold mining starting in central Otago very soon, mining on the west’s coast soon 500 jobs starting, gas is back for someone who wants it, but by hod you don’t smoky start drilling for gas tomorrow, what’s wrong with some of you people on here, they are not simple painting a house, these things can take years, but you have to start somewhere
    
    0 0
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    September 8, 2025 8:57pm
Quail

Start of Labour’s and an Ardern electoral comeback?
The I I I (eye , eye . eye ) remains.
Nauseating
12 1
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September 8, 2025 9:05am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Are they thinking of resurrecting her as the 2nd coming and replacing Hipkins with her???
  
  Mt Albert MP stands down, Jacinda is the Lab candidate and is elected, Chippy is replaced.
  
  6 1
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  September 8, 2025 9:21am
  - Ghost
    
    Nope. She’s earning a far better income overseas. She won’t be back, except late at night when people are looking under their bed for the Boogeymonster.
    
    14 3
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    September 8, 2025 9:26am
  - AitchW
    
    Oh, I do hope so. She’ll be electoral kryptonite. The Greens would probably benefit, but I suspect many Labout voters would simply stay home on election day.
    
    6 0
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    September 8, 2025 10:50am
    - kowtow
      
      Layabout voters ?
      
      2 1
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      September 8, 2025 3:01pm
MCōs

Funny crowd Winston & NZF
Shortly after scoffing down loads of sausage rolls they laughed at Hipkins when Winston referred to him as a sausage roll eater.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/08-09-2025/the-five-most-bizarro-moments-from-the-last-day-of-the-nz-first-convention
4 16
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September 8, 2025 9:40am
- NoFax
  
  The Spinoff? Wouldn’t it be easier to just link to the Labour/Green/TPM press release – it’s the same just with extra steps.
  
  20 1
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  September 8, 2025 9:47am
- Prince
  
  Funny crowd, The Spinoff.
  Mock the right, the old, the rich but never the Greens or TPM.
  
  10 0
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  September 8, 2025 2:27pm
Nikola Donatello

It is scary that she is a visiting fellow at Harvard. Maybe OK if you major in word salad.
10 2
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September 8, 2025 10:01am
- peterwn
  
  Nah! Just judge Harvard by the company it keeps. She would never be a visiting fellow at MIT (almost a stones throw from Harvard).
  
  9 1
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  September 8, 2025 11:36am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Haven’t they had millions in funding pulled for pushing loony woketard agendas?
  
  1 1
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  September 8, 2025 9:37pm
Conservatarian

British patriots fronting the burgeoning mass movement in the UK: Oi gummint. Stop importing rapists and criminals from the third world to live in hotels at our expense while they slip out during the day to rape and steal.

Lib Dem and Tory loyalists and voters: gosh these asylum seeker hotels are causing slippage in our GDP.

Starmer: We have heard you and we are sympathetic to your views. Now meet your new Minister who controls immigration. Don’t notice her Muslim name.

Mahmood: white men waving flags are bad.

BBC and Guardian: triumphant historic moment as Labour appoints its first ever Muslim woman to this job. Asylum hotels don’t matter because I’ve never personally seen a crime happen.
15 2
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September 8, 2025 11:19am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Reform is gaining huge support in the UK but it’s a long long way to the next election there. I feel very sorry for sensible and sane Brits. The train wreck Lab/Green/TPM subjected NZ to looks like a picnic compared to what Brits are being subjected to now.
  
  3 1
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  September 8, 2025 9:43pm
imalwaysright

John Campbell is employing his extraordinary investigative journalism skills to expose the Destiny Church.

Maybe John can next take a look at the unsolved murders of New Zealand babies and toddlers.
He won’t be short of material, they are being tortured and abused daily, perhaps he could potentially save a life or at least prevent some baby getting near fatal brain trauma.

Lets wait and see.
15 3
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September 8, 2025 12:32pm
- RoboRob
  
  That would that be the same Campbell that thought sleeping in cars was the countries biggest issue while National were in power. Ran stories on it almost every day. Then when JA won and came into power the stories immediately stopped and no mention was ever made again, even though it got worse.
  
  Campbell uses ‘journalism’ to further his goals. I’m no fan of Destiny Church but this smacks of ‘I dont like Brian Tamaki and I am going to bring him down’.
  
  17 2
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  September 8, 2025 2:40pm
Philview

20 years ago I used to enjoy John’s output but he has become quite bland these days and he doesn’t do stories that I find interesting. Destiny Church has been investigated many times so why bother. There isn’t an audience for that story.
8 2
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September 8, 2025 1:26pm
- RoboRob
  
  Campbell showed his true colours when the homeless crisis ended as soon as his choice of government was selected.
  
  See my post above, Campbell uses ‘journalism’ to further his agenda. Obviously he is unhappy with Destiny Church.
  
  9 2
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  September 8, 2025 2:42pm
- kowtow
  
  20 years ago , or so , he very publicly declared his involvement in journalism was with activist intent .
  
  He shouldn’t be involved in “news” , he belongs in a left wing , tax payer funded ngo ……. oh wait.
  
  6 2
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  September 8, 2025 3:00pm
  - Philview
    
    Back then he did the Saturday morning slot on National Radio and had plenty of interesting interviews.
    
    1 0
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    September 8, 2025 6:49pm
    - Jack5
      
      In addition to Campbell’s Leftist bias, I disliked his sonorous, sermon-like tone.
      
      3 0
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      September 8, 2025 9:58pm
Swifty

“Don’t be silly, nobody’s losing their culture in the UK!”

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16EzUg8Pqk/?mibextid=wwXIfr
2 0
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September 8, 2025 4:14pm
Jack5

When we talk “productivity” in NZ we usually mean labour activity: the ratio of GDP to total hours worked in the economy.

Two of biggest NZ industries are tourism and horticulture. Tourism is a big user of labour, and it’s hard to see how it can be much automated. Horticulture is beginning to be automated with robot pickers, pruners etc.

How much further can our biggest export industry, dairy farming be automated? Cows are milked by machine and returns to scale from increasing farm size may be difficult.

The talking heads preach productivity growth, but are say little of how this is to be reached.
1 0
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September 8, 2025 5:39pm
NothingLeft

Can democracy survive when a majority of population prioritize what they get from the govt (voting themselves rich even when it is done with borrowings) and their emotional responses to nice-to-have issues over the long term strength of their country?

My feeling – based on witnessing the withering of the west over the last 30 years as voters have shown more and more inclination to vote for their wallets and Feelz even when it is producing scary declines is; No.

Selfish and emotive western voters are going to destroy the countries they live in and deliver themselves into the hands of evil Venezuela like autocrats and tyrants, likely within the next 1 to 2 decades. I don’t see any way to arrest that tendency.
1 0
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September 8, 2025 6:01pm
Swifty

While he makes some good points, I get the distinct impression Geoffrey Palmer is happy for social division as a result of policies he favours, but is aghast at and rails against any social division caused by his political opponents pushing back!

https://x.com/huiasue/status/1964562820621844892?s=46

He also purports to wish to save our democracy from ‘populism’ and ‘authoritarianism’ and ‘dictatorships’ but makes no mention of the threats to our democracy arising from his team’s rampant growth of the state – in size, reach, cost and control.
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September 8, 2025 6:07pm

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