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September 14, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 September 2025

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General Debate

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Debsta

The stupidity of left voters astounds me…they must sacrifice their brain to sign up, then they’re stuck there without the power to think. It thwarts true democracy and this country is doomed by their thoughtlessness 😔
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September 14, 2025 8:02am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Memo to Minister of Immigration.
  Erica
  I suggest you get yourself off to the UK and start recruiting for the employment gaps . The UK is a shambles with uncontrolled illegal immigration. The UK citizens are right pissed off with the idiot Starmer and his fellow morons. There are plenty of well trained young people who would easily assimilate in our society and start paying tax from day one. Better them than the rag tag bunch of long term unemployed and their hangers on you are importing now.
  Get to it girl!!!
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:38am
  - Debsta
    
    Agreed LMS, we need to import thinkers and workers not activists and shirkers.
    
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    September 14, 2025 11:02am
- mogg
  
  They can think alright, their manoeuvring to control right of centre free speech is succeeding spectacularly. Remember right wing speakers are hate speech and their words are violence.
  “If they are allowed to speak there will be violent protests.”
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:13am
Boy Geoff

The Black Ferns easily beat South Africa, so everything’s kapai again!

Yeah, I thought so…
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September 14, 2025 8:02am
- gravedodger
  
  I understand that Republic team are amateurs with no funding from SA Rugby or Govt, they paid their own way to the tournament?
  
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  September 15, 2025 8:41am
Scott

Dearie me-this rugby season has given us some unwelcome firsts from the All Blacks. In August Argentine beat the All Blacks in Argentine for the first time ever. Last night we suffered our heaviest defeat ever, by a 33 point margin and the first time (correct me if I am wrong) that the All Blacks have conceded 40 points. Indeed it could have been 50 points if the Argentinian try in the first half had stood.

What went wrong? Well our scrum got shunted off the ball and we didn’t have a reliable line out. The All Black forwards went backwards against a rampant Springbok pack and the backs never seemed to settle and gain control. We couldn’t win the ball in the air, the Springbok up and under had us completely baffled.

I always thought Scott Robertson was obviously the coach of the All Blacks. His Crusaders dominated NZ rugby. Yet here his All Blacks team were dominated in the second half!?

And no it was not the stadium! It’s a great stadium with a grass field like every other stadium. Don’t blame the stadium.

I don’t think we have a good team, our forwards in particular were second best last night. But to be thrashed at home? That’s going to take a lot of getting over. And questions are going to be asked?
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September 14, 2025 8:05am
- Dougal10
  
  Razor was out coached , Tony Brown has negated the stupid pod play and Rassie has chosen big strong forwards.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:19am
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  The All Blacks looked good in the first half, with ball in hand they put together some really good attacking plays. Scoring a try after plays that first went wide to the right and then completely across the field to the left.
  
  The biggest issue for the AB’s was their inability to gain parity in the scrum. This weakness was obvious at Eden Park the week before. They were lucky not to have many scrums in that match but the Springboks had shown complete dominance in that regard.
  
  In Wellington there were loads of knock-ons and handling errors that created scrums. The ABs were then penalised (fairly) out of the game. That would be the weakest All Black scrum I can recall. They must fix that or they won’t be able to compete against the top level teams.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:37am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Locks hold the scrum together and don’t go back. Either the front row pop, or go down if the locks are doing their job. The scrum functioned OK when Holland came on. Read into that what you may.
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:44am
- pdm
  
  Scott there are still elements of being Foster lite in some of Razor’s selections.
  
  Starting Lomax ahead of Fletcher Newall is one example from last night. In my opinion Newall has been the best performed All Black this year but, the scrum was well lost by the time he got on the park.
  
  Losing Hotham so early was a disaster especially with Christie on the bench – why wasn’t Preston there because he showed a few touches of class last week.
  
  Christie and Reinhardt must be just about the two slowest passing half backs in the same test. But, the Yarpie knew how to make a break.
  
  Our locks are too short time to start Holland and Darry I think.
  
  There is more but that will do for now.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:40am
  - nathie
    
    Yes and why was Holland brought onto the field in the 65th minute? Similar to the previous match?
    
    I thought he played well in those last 15 min and would have been valuable earlier in the game especially during the lineouts when the AB’s lacked height (as we saw earlier in the season)?
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:55am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Family member who has played a fair bit of rugby at various levels, messaged at the start of the second half that “wheels are starting to fall off now.”
    Why?
    “All Blacks can’t win a game if they can’t win a scrum”.
    Also, is there any such thing as testing for illegal drug use before or after these big games?
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:43am
    - pdm
      
      gravel I think I heard during the week that all players are tested after each test match.
      
      Not sure if that is correct though as it used to be a random 2 or 3 from each side I think.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:54am
- nathie
  
  Can someone (more knowledgeable on the rules than me) explain something that occurred just after the 37′ mark in the match?
  
  The ball ended up downfield by the AB’s, McKenzie who was running reached up to grab the ball, Kolbe was also running directly behind McKenzie and also reached up but realistically wasn’t in the better position, but used one hand to try and grab the ball anyway (I thought a one-arm interception was a no-no?) and then bent his elbow as his arm came down to smack McKenzie in the face deliberately?
  
  Is that just “one of those things” that happens so no worries? Or did the various refs miss a penalty?
  
  Just asking since the incident was replayed in slow motion (without comment from anyone) with McKenzie reeling back after being hit, so assumed Kolbe must have used some force!
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:48am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Likewise the SA player who openly shoved the AB out of the line out with no ball in sight.
    Penalty?
    No.
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:58pm
    - Quail
      
      GR,
      That play changed the game, and it’s momentum.
      SA scored from that.
      Confusion in the AB line out , the AB jumper was shoved out of the line out by SA and the AB hooker threw it in anyway without a jumper.
      Bad Rugby on all sides, the first offence was SA taking out the jumper, certainly a penalty offence.
      And the AB hooker should not have thrown it in until his line out was settled.
      Costly.
      
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      September 14, 2025 1:33pm
      - AitchW
        
        Lineouts have become a shambles. Players running up and down the line it looks like the hot chips line at a school tuck shop!
        Time for World Rugby to review the whole rule book from go to whoah. Or should I say the “laws”?
        Bloody pretentious pack of blazer wearers….
        
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        September 14, 2025 2:19pm
- igm
  
  Imagine MSM if it had been Hansen or Foster, they would have been baying for blood. Seems breakdancing suits current narrative.
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:00am
Jade Warrior

Well that second half was nothing short of embarrassing.
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September 14, 2025 8:08am
- MCōs
  
  Another day, another murder
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:14pm
David Garrett

So, “Razor” – why do these coaches all have to have silly nicknames? – has presided over “the biggest defeat in sporting history ‘…or something….A day of national mourning in Aotearoa? Cue hordes of armchair experts debating who should have played but didn’t, and who should have played somewhere else but didn’t. Perhaps we need a Commission of Enquiry into the loss?
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September 14, 2025 8:17am
- Cassandra
  
  It’s a national disaster, DG. Actually a National disaster, in that any poll taken today would, bizarrely, punish the Government. In reality it’s Labour’s fault, a result of ruining the school system. And “Razor’s” who didn’t tell his players that when kicking doesn’t work then Don’t Kick!!
  
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  September 14, 2025 8:22am
  - David Garrett
    
    Cass: OK I’ll bite: why is he called “Razor”? I suppose the last one – “Shag” IIRC – Used to be a bit of a rooter back in the day?
    
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    September 14, 2025 8:26am
    - Cassandra
      
      Google defines razor as “a sharp-edged tool” which seems fair. I have no idea why Robertson is thus nicknamed. He doesn’t seem to be much of a coach. Good dancer!
      
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      September 14, 2025 8:35am
      - Michael Sommerville
        
        His antics after a winning game when he was coaching Canterbury were embarrassing.
        
        DG – Fozzie (Ian Foster) was the previous coach and Robertson was appointed amongst much controversy. Interesting times.
        
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        September 14, 2025 8:58am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        “Good dancer!”
        Maybe ‘razor’ and ‘raygun’ could do a halftime duet at Optus next week – might have more impact than anything being said in the change room ….
        
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        September 14, 2025 9:06am
      - Inandout
        
        Cass, and Grizz Wyllie is obvious.
        
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        September 14, 2025 10:42am
      - pdm
        
        70 etc – Razor would outclass raygun I think.
        
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        September 14, 2025 10:55am
    - Philview
      
      From memory his ability to cut through defences when he was an All Black.
      
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      September 14, 2025 8:37am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      It is a reference to the his bone jarring tackles when he was playing David. Apparently, when he hit you it was like being cut in half.
      
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      September 14, 2025 9:41am
    - pdm
      
      `Razor’ comes from his playing days, if not before he reached prominence as a Provincial player and then All Black.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:28am
  - Paulus
    
    It must be Christopher Luxon’s fault – the media and Chippy would agree remember.
    
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    September 14, 2025 8:34am
    - pdm
      
      Paulus Chloe would too if she knew what rugby was.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:29am
  - pdm
    
    `….., a result of ruining the school system.
    
    Two `softie’ examples in a couple of days:
    1. Netball sacking Noeline Taurua.
    2 A weak All Black performance.
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:45am
  - R
    
    who didn’t tell…….I am old enough to recall a time when the coach didn’t have to spell out every move. The AB’s were capable of thinking through the situation and adjusting tactics to suit. Problem of our education system ‘teaching what to think, not how to think’
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:55am
- cmm
  
  Where is Andrew Little to tell us Kiwis Deserve Better?
  
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  September 14, 2025 8:39am
  - R
    
    He is busily occupied striving to takeover Wellington as Mayor
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:01am
- TS Child
  
  A Commission of Enquiry DG? I dunno … I mean – who would turn up?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:07am
- Flossie
  
  There are quite a few of us who just say ‘meh’ and carry on! Not going to ruin my day.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:14am
  - kowtow
    
    I suspect that a huge part of the problem is the media setting the agenda that All Blacks Inc is all that matters .
    Meanwhile we continue down the road to third world status.
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:44am
  - David Garrett
    
    Flossie: Well, if I knew what “meh” meant I might say it…But seriously folks…this is a sports team – ! playing a rather silly “chase the ball” game which needs something like 250 “laws” to stop each side maiming each other. (The beautiful game only needs about 10 rules, but of course that game is only played by “pooftas”).
    
    Does any other nation go into mourning when their national team loses? I suppose SA might…but the Ozzies have several different games chasing an oval ball, so a loss to one of the national teams playing some variant is not such a big deal.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:00am
    - Centrist
      
      If the Aussies lose the Ashes in a few months, they’ll be in mourning.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:22am
    - Fender
      
      After seeing you repeat these comments after every test over the last couple of years and probably many times before I read here I think we get your point so why do you persist commenting on A sport you don’t enjoy every time someone who does makes a comment about the latest game
      It makes no sense
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:25am
      - David Garrett
        
        Fender: Fair point. The main reason I make these comments is because I am fascinated by human behavior.
        This thread is a perfect illustration.
        
        I made my comment early yesterday, referring to the number of armchair experts who would flock in to opine on what should have been done differently – and dozens duly did flock with strident comments on “Razor’s” selections. All very amusing to me.
        
        I get similar amusement observing passenger behavior when I fly regularly. Are you one of the 90% who leap up into the aisle the second the plane stops? There they stand, getting more and more fidgety – while I continue reading my book. I meet the aisle jumpers at baggage claim – and I often get my bag first!
        
        It is always the same – 90 or 95% are “aisle jumpers”. The ones I laugh at most are those who stand up in their seat, heads cricked off to one side, unable to get into the aisle itself because of all the aisle jumpers! Too funny.
        
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        September 15, 2025 12:49am
    - pdm
      
      The Ozzies don’t like it when their cricket team loses.
      
      Same thing I think DG.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:31am
      - Poppax8
        
        When the Aussies did really badly at the 84 L.A Olympics they established the AIS (Aussie Institute of Sport) in Canberra – that seemed to work. But not Aotearoa- let’s have a royal commission and complain if previous losing coaches don’t turn up to take some of the blame.
        
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        September 14, 2025 11:04am
    - Jigsaw
      
      Oh yes – so well said David!
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:00pm
- Simon
  
  Just someone else who claims they dont follow rugby but know everything that is going on in the sport. I dont follow other sports couldnt for eg name one single member of the NZ cricket side or warriors or any other NZ team / sport which receives wide spread coverage.
  
  Lame going on about a sport or team they dont like only when they lose. Sad.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:33am
- MCōs
  
  Sportspeople have forever been burdened with nicknames. Sometimes clever such as ‘the Needle’, sometimes incomprehensible, ‘Paddles’, but more often just stupid ‘Pup’ ‘Fat Gatt’
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:34pm
  - AitchW
    
    Paddles has great big feet. Feet like paddles….
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:45pm
  - gravedodger
    
    IIRC MCōs, Hadlee had rather large boots?
    
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    September 15, 2025 8:50am
Paulus

Commisiuon of Enquiry
name it”Ohshittey”.
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September 14, 2025 8:19am
KH

Chill. The haka is our national treasure.
That makes us the winner. (sarc)
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September 14, 2025 8:30am
- David Garrett
  
  KH: Yep…that silly spectacle – I have just noticed the congruence – sure worked last night!
  
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  September 14, 2025 10:02am
  - Fender
    
    This haka at the free speech rally in London looked impressive
    https://youtu.be/nJ2jmBf-sZM?si=W2O4lmtq0mAiaTpi
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:21am
DimChappie

The Latu family with 8 children have complained about extreme poverty to Radio NZ and the Herald.
But Lindsay Mitchell estimates the family’s benefit income at $1,946 per week over winter or $101,192 annually – not counting any income from two relatives staying with them. Where is their money going?

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/lindsay-mitchell-the-other-side-of-the-story

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/567129/charities-see-alarming-levels-of-poverty-as-families-struggle
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September 14, 2025 8:35am
- Mummy
  
  The church?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:12am
- AitchW
  
  Food. 8 kids will eat half of that at least.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:24am
- G152
  
  Can I get paid that much please
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:43am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  A few points worth considering:
  
  1. Yes the welfare state encourages poor people to breed – apparently (according to Ms Mitchell) the optimum number of kids is 3 to maximise benefits.
  
  2. Low IQ people have poor impulse control and tend to not understand long-term consequences.
  
  3. Odd on these people have bought a car, the tv, the washing machine. fridge etc on ridiculously high interest predatory loans of the zero down 60 months to pay variety so beloved of certain whiteware companies and car dealers. It is entirely plausible that they are genuinely broke.
  
  4. This is probably the 4th generation of poor people in this situation. This is a death spiral for NZ society, but nobody has any answers for how to pull up (or out!). The left want to give them more money to solve the poverty, and the right?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:49am
- Burtland
  
  like most NZ families they will be up to their eyeballs in debt
  – Nicola’s trying to fix it by taking us back to the rock star days of 0% interest
  Hows the interference in the reserve bank going?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:50am
  - Takere
    
    To be fair to the minister for Holes & Sausages, Tourism, Idea’s, Hot Takes on Things Economic and Finance, Economic Growth and the Reserve Bank … she has a lot on her plate, that shes not very good at so cut her some slack, soon. In 2026 maybe.
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:25pm
- David Garrett
  
  Dim: A fair whack of it will be going to the church – as others have observed…
  
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  September 14, 2025 10:02am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Right. So we should knock their benefit income by (maybe) 50% or so. Someone in the Tongan community will look after them. Or not. Whatever. Why should us Caucasians be bled to death keeping people like this alive?
    
    Self-reliance is the name of the game?
    
    It’s not that one would want to muzzle Lindsay (good luck with that one 🙂 ) but I don’t understand what naming and shaming a specific family with a Tongan background is supposed to achieve …. other than to provoke a stream of “sympathetic” whinges.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:14am
    - kowtow
      
      You can blame RNZ or some other anti colonial activists for “naming and shaming” , not LM , had you bothered reading .
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:20am
    - pdm
      
      The Herald started the naming and shaming and I think Red Radio was on board too.
      
      They both just had a different perspective to the Erudite Lindsay Mitchell who is the best analyst on these issues in New Zealand.
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:34am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Lindsay Mitchell hasn’t named and shamed… she’s merely tried to put a $$$$ figure on the poverty line in NZ…something the intrepid Journos at NZ Herald and RNZ couldn’t do.
      
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      September 14, 2025 11:12am
      - Paulus
        
        Lindsay is by far ahead the best Analyst in such matters and has been for many years.
        And you can trust her work.
        
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        September 14, 2025 1:55pm
  - john1234
    
    The other thing might be debt from weddings. There’s a cultural requirement to hold an expnsive wedding with hundreds of guests whenever someone gets married. With a large families the combined debt can be incredible and it is often at usury rates of interest.
    It’s a shame that the twit “reporter” didn’t ask the right questions but that would have destroyed the narrative.
    
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    September 14, 2025 11:08am
    - David Garrett
      
      John: Spot on. Years ago my daughter was flower girl at a Tongan wedding in South Auckland. It was a huge affair with catering for 500 people – only 100 or so of whom were actually guests; the rest were just random Tongans who turned up for a big feed. They literally came in waves through the reception hall.
      
      The father of the bride – lovely fella – was a builder with perhaps one employee. God only knows what that wedding cost the poor bastard
      
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      September 14, 2025 11:37am
      - R
        
        This is true. Have a family member who ‘lives’ with a Tongan, but unwed due to this very practice. Good socialism, weddings are a village affair for all to attend, and participate in the feast,
        Hence the attraction of NZ WELFARE to the PI immigrants.
        
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        September 14, 2025 11:55am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  + $50 per month per child ex Variety children’s charity. That’s circa $5k pa, no tax involved.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:05pm
Paulus

Watching on TV the so called Palestine rabble yesterday it appears to me that the people walking and yelling are looking at probably new New Zealand Immigrants many from what we would call the Middle East and Africa.
Couldnt really see anybody who at last looke like a real possible local New Zealander, but all fluffed up scarved immigrants.
Am told that the figure of 20,000 used by the media was a make up before the march and at conclusion it was higher than anticipated.
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September 14, 2025 8:41am
- Simon
  
  Just saw sheep being directed by the state.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:30am
- kowtow
  
  I see a report one of the chants is “we don’t want 2 states. we want 48”
  
  They don’t recognise the Jewish right to exist.
  
  I don’t see te media reporting that.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:52am
  - Wandering Star
    
    “They don’t recognise the Jewish right to exist.”
    
    Hang on: now it’s become opposition to a “Jewish right to exist” as opposed to just the right of Israel to exist?
    
    Why don’t Arabs or Palestinians have this so-called right to exist? Is a right to exist solely an Israeli right, and if so, why?
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:42pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Good to see Brian Tamaki and Destiny Church pushing back with a counter protest!
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:59am
  - AitchW
    
    I’m not entirely comfortable with
    Disciple Tamaki and his acolytes marching. They are overtly aggressive despite their “Man up” programme supposedly opposing violence.
    Sadly the small far left activist groups give the more extreme groups on the right more motivation to air their views.
    
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    September 14, 2025 11:09am
  - Wandering Star
    
    While most Palestinians are Muslims, some of them are Christians. Its reasonable to suggest that a more than minor proportion of the Palestinians killed by Israel will have been Christians – you’d think Tamaki would have more sympathy for them than for the non-Christian Jews who killed them.
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:38pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      There are plenty of “Palestinians” who are Jews WS. They are also Israelis.
      
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      September 14, 2025 3:10pm
  - MCōs
    
    Brian Tamaki wasn’t there.
    He was over in London with another mob of his rabble rousers.
    
    I have nephew who’s a farmer in the Midlands over there. A lot of our family have been over there and know that branch of the family quite well
    One of my sisters was over there and he gave her a lift somewhere local. As they were passing through a nearby village here spotted some Indians, wound down the window and yelled abuse at them
    Go back to your country. That sort of thing.
    What’s wrong with these people?
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:33pm
- MCōs
  
  Who’s your idea of a ‘real possible local New Zealander?’
  
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  September 14, 2025 10:04am
  - Paulus
    
    Is not a part Maori a real possible local New Zealander – were there any/many there ?
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:42am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Someone generally valuing the traditional ethos of NZ which was do a decent day’s work, don’t be a dickhead, criminal or a scumbag, and be reasonable.
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:42pm
- OlderChas
  
  Paulus – of the dozen or so protestors given a speaking part on the 1News coverage – only the last one had a New Zealand accent.
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:20am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Lots of video. Someone should run it through Grok and ask how many attended.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:46pm
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I was on that march. I’m a sixth-generation New Zealander. Is that good enough for you?
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September 14, 2025 8:47am
- Scott
  
  Tom of course that’s good enough. You have the freedom to be wrong, the same as everyone else in NZ. 😎
  
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  September 14, 2025 8:58am
- Notsofast
  
  Did any of the speeches call for Hamas to release the hostages?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:01am
- Debsta
  
  And apparently so proud of being a good useful idiot…nice one Tom
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:07am
- Philview
  
  It does raise the question. What do you want the NZ Government to do? Declare war on Israel? Send arms to Hamas? It was reported as being a protest against the NZ Government.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:09am
- Cassandra
  
  And your solution to the problem, apart from supporting Hamas, is what?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:12am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Netanyahu’s overkill response has sickened many people, who would have otherwise probably not engaged, and created a massive backlash.
    
    I would say that, because of that, most people who are against his actions have very little knowledge of the situation or possible solutions, but what they see on the news has triggered their response.
    
    Some conflate criticism of Netanyahu with antisemitism, that would be understandable if he was a Jewish Clergyman citing his Bible , but he is a politician acting in his political interests and therefore deserves any criticism he gets without his critics being labelled as religious bigots.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:38am
    - Wandering Star
      
      Exactly. It’s not a “left v right” issue at all, it’s whether or not you have a conscience or not. Most of the people at these marches would vigorously oppose most of my politics, but why is it supposed to be impossible to have any shared position with them?
      
      Because Israel has been hemorrhaging support from the right in the the last year or so, the tactic is painting opponents of Israel as “lefties” but it’s never quite explained how this calculus works.
      
      In narrative terms, the minute the Israel-Palestine issue loses the black and white moral characterisation favoured by the Zionists, they start getting into real trouble.
      
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      September 14, 2025 11:53am
  - Wandering Star
    
    The West, but the US in particular of course, could stop giving billions of dollars to Israel every year which would immediately disable their ability to reshape the region for their benefit, which they have been doing for 80 years.
    
    Before and since its inception, Israel has never been able to independently act in the region – it has always relied on outside charity (again, particularly from the US, which has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel) which is why the network of Israel lobbies in all the Western nations are so crucial, because that’s how they extract the cash and diplomatic support they need and also, as is quite evident on the pages of KB for example, through narrative control within “conservative” media, convince us all that their conflicts are ours, and that our interests are theirs.
    
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    September 14, 2025 11:34am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Are you proposing support should stop WS? And Israel to then be wiped off the map? Of course the same could be said of NATO. And the potential destruction of nations in Europe. But hey, make meaningless arguments. It’s fine.
      
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      September 14, 2025 3:13pm
- AitchW
  
  How many banners calling for the release of the Israeli hostages held by Hamas?
  How many called for Hamas to distribute the stolen international aid?
  How many asked Hamas to stop launching rockets from schools and hospitals?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:23am
  - Paulus
    
    I assume some good Chinese man made all the Palestine banners, for a price.
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:00pm
- Swifty
  
  Do you agree with Hamas that Israel has no right to exist and needs to be wiped off the map and the Jews driven out?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:29am
  - KH
    
    Not to forget that Israel has set about wiping Gaza off the earth.
    Killed 60,000 people so far including a lot of children. Blowes them up with big bombs. But you know, that’s ok because Israelis are western types and not towelheads.
    (don’t be fooled, they are certainly not western types)
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:59pm
    - wairarapapaul
      
      How many of those 60000 are Hamas? Do you have a number for Hamas fighters killed and is it included in that 60000 or not?
      
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      September 15, 2025 8:27am
- Simon
  
  The so called protest controlled and directed by the police like sheep. Joke protest while war criminal Israel continues to murder children. It was a pathetic display. The govt and many others were laughing as you let the police herd you.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:29am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Which war crimes are you alluding to Simon? I reckon you have no idea. And by the way, war kills people. Not just combatants, but other people. And when Hamas, who started the war, deliberately put the people of Gaza in harms way, what do you expect? A pat on the shoulder? There hasn’t been a war ever, that children haven’t been killed. I guess with you, it’s an Israel issue rather than a Hamas issue. You might recall that Gaza killed Israeli children. Or you might not. Deliberately.
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:33pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  I’m sure many kiwi malcontents were in that rabble. It was after all co-led by some Maori group that see their struggle as equivalent to the Palestinians – clearly they must be treaty deniers to hold that view! That doesn’t mean that Paulus is wrong with the observation that the crowd was dominated by immigrants.
  
  How many signs were there condemning Hamas and asking them to release the hostages?
  
  Focussing the blame for the war on Gaza at the Israelis is like an obese person who eats nothing but junk food blaming their obesity on colonisation.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:45am
  - David Garrett
    
    Pineapple: …like an obese person who eats nothing but junk food blaming their obesity on colonisation.
    
    Was that a deliberate piece of irony? Because of course Obesity among the Maori ” caused by eating too much junk is supposed to be the honkey’s fault. Along with “supersizing” the portions. We force them to order them of course
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:08am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      DG – we are on the same page, unfortunately for those that buy-in to the victim mentality it makes them a victim of their mentality and very easily manipulated by those who wish to exploit them.
      
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      September 14, 2025 11:36am
      - Wandering Star
        
        Don’t you buy into the “victim mentality” lock stock and barrel when it comes to Israel, though? The fundamental premise of Israel, and the one we hear so often, is that Jews require a distinct nation state, apparently at any cost, because they are the world’s premiere victims.
        
        Almost every claim about and defence of Israel is painted as being the Jewish people being the victims of non-Jewish people.
        
        You can’t base your argument on victimhood but then criticise others for doing exactly the same thing.
        
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        September 14, 2025 11:57am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        No Wandering Star I don’t believe that the Jewish right to statehood is a case of victim mentality. The Jewish diaspora, millenia of persecution and return to their homeland are all prophetic fulfilment. Other prophesies are yet to be fulfilled including the armies of the world waging war of Armageddon. So you will get your wish to see them suffer. It is part of Gods greater plan to reconcile Gentiles and Jews to him.
        
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        September 14, 2025 2:08pm
      - Wandering Star
        
        “I don’t believe that the Jewish right to statehood is a case of victim mentality. The Jewish diaspora, millenia of persecution….you will get your wish to see them suffer.”
        
        Sorry, but your own words demonstrate my point. It very much sounds to me that your pro-Israel position is based on a victim mentality after all.
        
        But let’s steelman your argument: maybe you’re right to see Jews as victims, but the facts of the matter are you do see them as such, therefore yours is a quintessentially victim mentality, therefore you’re a hypocrite to accuse others of adopting the kind of attitude you have.
        
        You also cite Biblical “prophecy” as to the Jews: what about the prophecy that Jesus would come along and form a new covenant with mankind, whereby Jews would no longer be the Chosen Ones, and that “Israel” would come to mean Christians? That’s a very convenient oversight is it not?
        
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        September 14, 2025 2:21pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    Same as even the counter protests in London yesterday. All organised and funded by Unions.
    
    Wonder how many teachers where marching there Union feed hate down Queen St yesterday
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:05pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “I was on that march”. Why Tom?
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:46am
  - Wandering Star
    
    He probably opposes what Israel is doing, like all the other marchers do.
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:44pm
- pdm
  
  So you support Hamas slaughtering women and young children Tom!!!
  
  You also appear to support Hamas fighters hiding in schools and hospitals so innocent Gazans are at risk.
  
  Please explain why.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:49am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    The sad thing pdm is that although a minority, there are lots of kiwis that support Hamas. Even worse is the media support this position too.
    
    The contrast between the reporting on the crowds that marched against the COVID mandates and this rabble are very telling. The media see themselves as the moral authority in their reporting. The fact they align with Hamas shows how evil many in the NZ media are.
    
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    September 14, 2025 9:58am
    - Paulus
      
      The sheep in New Zealand are easily led by the lovely media and they understand that because of their so called education.
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:02pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Yes, come on Tom, step up!
    
    While you are at it…do you believe the casualty figures released by a health ministry controlled by terrorists? I don’t.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:10am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Good question David. It seems they know the exact number of “civilians” killed by the Israelis, but have no idea how many have died from natural causes.
      There is no way to identify a dead adult (and even say 15 year old and up kids) as civilian in the urban warfare of Gaza. Just as a bit of info, in Ukraine, the Ukrainian civilians that joined the fighting wore yellow tape round their arms and legs to identify themselves as combatants. That doesn’t happen in Gaza.
      Over 20% of Hamas rockets landed in Gaza. Anyone killed by those rockets is on the Health Authority list and used as a cudgel against Israel.
      
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      September 14, 2025 1:11pm
      - Southern Raider
        
        Also they never separate out “combatants”
        
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        September 14, 2025 2:06pm
- David George
  
  [Mod – debate without the abuse]
  
  A few months back I was talking to a respected political commentator. He was cajoled into getting along to one of these marches and was utterly horrified by the attitude of vile hatred from the Islamists. These people are evil.
  
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  September 14, 2025 10:22am
  - judith8409121
    
    this [Mod – deleted] greenie is one of their embarrassing members and close friends with Marama .. Zane Wedding- why people vote for the greens when they have these weird beliefs and even weirder hangers on is beyond my understanding
    
    https://x.com/2ETEKA/status/1966974819666456832
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:32am
Tomtoddy

The selection decisions seem a bit weird at times as though Razor is trying various players irrespective of their performance in various places trying to find combinations. In the two tests against the Boks there have been several players in different positions to where they usually play. It must be unsettling.

The Blacks were just not up to it in the second half – they looked really lame, making silly mistakes and ill-discipline costing them once again. Isn’t that a coaching issue?
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September 14, 2025 8:48am
- Michael Sommerville
  
  The real issue to me was that there was a lack of effort in the latter half of the second half. It showed a lack of mental fortitude.
  
  PS I note the sun has risen today.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:02am
  - Quail
    
    M S,
    Maybe so but the wind is very cold!
    
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    September 14, 2025 4:16pm
- Simon
  
  They were out coached. No answer to the high ball as they kept having to fall back and reset. They had no heart in the second half. Too many processes and cant think on the spot.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:39am
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  Only 3 or 4 of the team are up to classic All black standard most are just good journeymen.
  
  We don’t have the depth of talent that covered the lackluster coaching talent before Razor, it realistically will take a few years to work with what we have.
  The coaching switch was way too late and we are paying the price.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:44am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “they looked really lame, making silly mistakes and ill-discipline costing them once again. Isn’t that a coaching issue?”
  The coach isn’t playing the game Tom. He has no ability to stop them making mistakes or showing ill-discipline. He is culpable however, in picking players who make the same mistakes time and again.
  
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  September 14, 2025 9:52am
  - Quail
    
    Watch the NZ pat on the shoulder for a Springbok after scoring a try, and a NZ forward helping another SA off the ground?
    Are they crazy?
    It is all about Attitude !
    Until the game is over it must be every man for his team and himself.
    ,Social niceties post game only!
    
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    September 14, 2025 8:23pm
Scott

So Charlie Kirk was answering questions from university students about trans. Then he was shot.

The shooter apparently has a trans roommate.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/13/us-news/charlie-kirk-shooter-tyler-robinson-lived-with-transgender-partner?utm_source=nypost&utm_campaign=android_nyp&utm_medium=social

Now the trans person could be a partner or could just be a roommate? But is there something going on with trans people? There sure are a lot of trans shooters? Especially since trans people are a very small percentage of the population? Maybe trans was not such a good idea after all? 🤔
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September 14, 2025 8:56am
- Southern Raider
  
  “Romantic relationship” is how it’s now being reported.
  
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  September 14, 2025 2:07pm
keepcalmcarryon

Media are the bottom of the barrel, here is TVNZ lecturing us over Trumps hypocrisy regarding Kirk, watch until the end for the actual definition of hypocrisy. Sorry it’s only a fb clip.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1LVARUkYP8/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Why isn’t TVNZ being sold?
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September 14, 2025 9:07am
- AitchW
  
  Who’d buy it?
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:48pm
  - judith8409121
    
    Who cares – as long as this lying organisation is not funded by tax
    
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    September 14, 2025 4:55pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  “Why isn’t TVNZ being sold?”
  
  Apparently because the Nats enjoy laying down and being peed on every day by the far left. Oh and giving them the money of working people to do so.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:49pm
ScrubOne

https://www.facebook.com/people/Charlies-Pledge/61580392037620/
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September 14, 2025 9:13am
Sparrow

The narrow loss to Ireland under Ian Foster was regarded as UNACCEPTABLE by the Rugby Union. What word will be forthcoming from the Union with this record breaking loss ? Oh I forgot the Union, Media and not forgetting the general public spent all their time undermining Foster while sanctifying a break dancer with zilch international experience. Will be interesting to watch and I bet a certain Joe in Australia will be licking his lips along with other ex NZ coaches.
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September 14, 2025 9:20am
AitchW

Let’s face it, SA was simply a better team. Faster, better ball handling, smarter, just much better.
Maybe one or two of our players are a bit past it, maybe the Barrets are over rated.
The Aussies are here in 2 weeks. At Eden Park.
Anyone putting a hundred bucks on an AB win?
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September 14, 2025 9:20am
CJames

mad Martyn is not upset with Mr Kirk’s death “Charlie Kirk was no Free Speech Champion!
He was a Christofascist hate grifter who said despicable things, think I’m wrong,
Well at least we know where you stand Mr Bradbury. Now look at the Maori Party.
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September 14, 2025 9:21am
- igm
  
  How could anyone have anything but detestation for Bradbury and his followers?
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:07am
- Tom Hunter
  
  You should understand that his commentators are even worse.
  
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  September 14, 2025 5:55pm
Swifty

Rotorua’s Annointed Apostle today in London:

https://x.com/thebritlad/status/1966950155128881393?s=46

Seems to have gone down well with the crowd – alongside his Kapa Haka group.
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September 14, 2025 9:39am
CJames

Looks like the horse dewormer might be effective against more than just Covid.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2025/09/ivermectin_s_surprising_potential_against_cancer.html
I wonder if it being out of patent rights has anything to do with opposition to it?
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September 14, 2025 10:01am
- David Garrett
  
  Cj: You do understand the difference between an intestinal parasite and a virus don’t you?
  
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  September 14, 2025 10:11am
  - Fender
    
    Of course they do its all been well documented many times before do you really think the article is that stupid
    Don’t speak unless you actually know what you are talking about comes to mind
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:20am
  - CJames
    
    David yes I do.
    Approved for human use in 1987, it has been instrumental in tackling some of the world’s most harmful tropical diseases, such as Onchocerciasis, lymphatic filariasis (also known as Elephantiasis), strongyloidiasis and scabies. It also effectively fights parasitic infestations in animals, which can be economically devastating to the livestock industry.
    And that many drugs are used for different purposes that their original invention. From before Covid.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711
    Abstract
    Over the past decade, the global scientific community have begun to recognize the unmatched value of an extraordinary drug, ivermectin, that originates from a single microbe unearthed from soil in Japan. Work on ivermectin has seen its discoverer, Satoshi Ōmura, of Tokyo’s prestigious Kitasato Institute, receive the 2014 Gairdner Global Health Award and the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, which he shared with a collaborating partner in the discovery and development of the drug, William Campbell of Merck & Co. Incorporated. Today, ivermectin is continuing to surprise and excite scientists, offering more and more promise to help improve global public health by treating a diverse range of diseases, with its unexpected potential as an antibacterial, antiviral and anti-cancer agent being particularly extraordinary.
    Some of the major drugs used in the treatment of my Stage 3 cancers were steroids. What were they invented for? Not cancer treatment.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:29am
    - Jethrod
      
      Gosh, you must be sorry you asked now DG!
      
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      September 14, 2025 10:42am
      - CJames
        
        Yes I note David hasn’t responded as at 12:58. I will chalk that up as a victory.
        
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        September 14, 2025 12:58pm
    - 2ic
      
      What you are referring to is ‘off-label’ use, where drugs are used for purposes they weren’t actually approved for.
      
      It’s a lot more common than most people think – this paper reports 21-32% of all prescriptions are considered off-label:
      
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9998554/
      “Off-label prescriptions for drugs are common, occurring overall in 21%3 to 32.3%4 of prescriptions overall.”
      
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      September 14, 2025 12:03pm
      - CJames
        
        I thought off label referred to medicines that were being used to treat something the medical authorities had not specifically licenced it for. People wanting antibiotics for a viral infection as an example. It is also why some cancer drugs could be used in Australia but not here. One of the rules Seymour wanted to change – IIRC he was successful.
        I can’t find what Ivermectin is allowed to be used for where. Because of the Covid controversy, I suspect there will be no extension of its usage by the FDA. Nothing there will happen until the changing of the guard. However, other jurisdictions (India?) allowed its use as an anti-viral. And the anti-cancer tests were properly supervised clinical trials.
        
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        September 14, 2025 1:14pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Steroids have been commonly used as part of the treatment protocols for certain cancers for decades.
      
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      September 14, 2025 5:42pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    DG
    The fact that Ivermectin is an effective treatment for parasites doesn’t preclude it from being an effective antiviral treatment.
    Google it, its a very important drug.
    
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    September 14, 2025 10:49am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    DG – There are stranger things than a medicine developed to treat parasites being effective to treat an illness caused by a virus:
    
    1. Pain killer (aspirin) used to treat cardiovascular disease
    2. Rat poison (warfarin) used to thin blood
    
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    September 14, 2025 11:40am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      3. Runny nose medication (Viagra)
      
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      September 14, 2025 1:12pm
    - rouppe
      
      Arsenic, used in wood preservatives, agricultural chemicals, and applications in the mining, metallurgical, glass-making, and semiconductor industries.
      
      Must be yucky.
      
      Also commonly used in clinical applications to treat hematological diseases, bone marrow, coronary heart disease, urogenital diseases, immune diseases, skin diseases or skin injuries, asthma, dental diseases, and tumors.
      
      Oh…
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:06pm
    - Cassandra
      
      I think it’s blood thinner used to kill rats.
      
      1 1
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      September 14, 2025 2:08pm
      - Quail
        
        Rouppe,
        FYI
        Warfarin is for rats and thinning blood .
        Arsenic , while it has many uses ,is a metallic cumulative poison , that is a poison that can build up in the body over time.It is also nominated as a carcinogen.
        It naturally occurs in certain soils but is regarded as a soil contaminant by every Regional Authorities I am aware of.
        Has been used as a vertebrate killer ,sheep dip and weed killer in the past but has use today been largely outlawed.
        
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        September 14, 2025 4:43pm
    - MCōs
      
      Warfarin is not a blood thinner. There’s no such thing
      It’s an anticoagulant which helps prevent blood from forming clots.
      In the case of rats it’s super effective and the poor little shits die as a result.
      With humans the blood must be constantly monitoring otherwise it could cause the blood to not form clots at all and the bleeding from a cut would be very serious
      Some people are born that way, for example a son of Tsar Nicholas II
      
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      September 14, 2025 9:08pm
  - peterwn
    
    They both make you feel miserable.
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:44pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Not no.3
      
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      September 14, 2025 5:41pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  It is about as effective against any type of cancer as it is against covid infection.
  
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  September 14, 2025 5:44pm
Paul Marsden

I would have thought that Mr. Luxon, who touts himself as being a man of Christian principles, would have a few public words to say about the assassination of a fellow human who shared similar principles, beliefs and family values. To the best of my knowledge, he has remained mute.

It seems to me, that the divide in New Zealand society has grown since Luxon has taken office and he remains impotent in narrowing that divide. His apparent refusual to issue any kind of public statement since Kirk’s assassination and were he might be seen as ‘taking a position’, is not helpful and shows a weakness in him that New Zealand can do without in a leader. (I note in passing, that both Mr. Peters and Mr. Seymour, quickly issued public statements following the assassination)
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September 14, 2025 10:37am
- R
  
  Peter’s and Seymour are in election mode, and have been ever since the coalition was eventually formed and signed.
  The divide in NZ is the result of MSM not supporting competence and responsibility in government. The PIJF has/will soon come to an end, and the media will have to earn their income/salaries by reporting factually accurate credible information. What better way to discredit the government and earn an income, than to support the mindset of the unthinking welfare orientated element of NZ.
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:08pm
- Ghost
  
  Winston didn’t issue a public statement, he answered a question on radio. This is the death of a private citizen, it’s not really something for our politicians to get involved with, as they also don’t get involved with school shootings, mass shootings, gun crime in the USA. Ardern often over stepped commenting on such things. There aren’t many leaders making public statements on this outside of the USA as its best left for the usa.
  
  Personally I’d prefer no outside politician make anything but a personal statement if they felt the need to. It should be left for the usa, and what is happening in the USA because of it is interesting. Videos on YouTube, TikTok, X of people leaving the Democrat party, won’t vote for them again because of how democrats reacted to the death.
  
  Btw when this happened David Seymour was the PM, he couldn’t even get a motion passed in parliament.
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:13pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    I was stunned to learn how widely Kirk was followed and respected, by New Zealand’s youth and young adults.
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:33pm
    - dcrane
      
      Why stunned?
      I guess you could mean several things, but if you or anyone else hasn’t watched him speak before, I’d recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqSNEiLTeY&feature=youtu.be
      
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      September 14, 2025 6:24pm
  - Wandering Star
    
    The world came to a standstill when George Floyd died in custody – no shortage of “leaders making public statements on [that] outside of the USA” on that occasion. There was even a brief reprieve as to the Covid tyranny so everyone could get and protest White supremacy – even the Covid virus took a break from infecting people out of solidarity for St George.
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:34pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    “He couldn’t even get a motion passed …”
    
    You dissemble, Ghost, when you omit to mention that Notices of Motion require unanimous support. A single shout is all that’s required to deny a Motion being put to the House.
    
    Unsurprising to most, at least one Green/ Labour/ Maori Party apparatchik opposed the Notice.
    
    If a Motion condemning murder as a valid response to free speech had been put, my view is that it would have been passed comfortably, the more so if it had been a conscience vote.
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:18pm
    - Ghost
      
      I’m pretty sure people on a political blog know the procedure and don’t need and idiots guide to motions, but here we go. Seymour wanted to put a motion before the house to acknowledge Kirk’s death, both labour and the greens refused before the house sat, saying there was no precedent for paying tribute to overseas figures with no formal link to New Zealand. They would not support it. So yes David failed to get his motion put before the house, so failed to get it passed.
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:22pm
- mandk
  
  Can you give an example – just one – of when Luxon “touted” his Christian principles?
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:04pm
- Paulus
  
  Whatever Luxon would say would be heartily condemned by the media, and read as accepted Coalition Policy.
  
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  September 14, 2025 2:06pm
  - kowtow
    
    he needs to stop worrying about them. They’ve consistently shown they’re against him.
    Instead of appeasing the media , he really needs to appeal to potential National supporters. A good 10 % of whom seems to be adrift.
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:28pm
- Paulus
  
  Helen Clark started the New Zealand divide in breaking up the Family Unit.
  That was long before Luxon returned to New Zealand.
  What crap.
  
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  September 14, 2025 2:08pm
Damocles11

In New Zealand we blame the coach if the AB’s lose. If we have better players than the ones Razor is picking, why aren’t they playing? The armchair experts may throw out a couple of names but the reality is that there isn’t a Dan Carter or a Richie McCaw twiddling their thumbs while the public bay for their inclusion. When the very average and nondescript Scott Barrett was appointed captain there wasn’t a huge collective cry of dismay from the public. Maybe this bunch is the best we have and we have to get used to mixed results rather than dominance. When Argentina started beating us and Ireland started regularly beating us there was a culprit identified: Ian Foster. The public was baying for a new coach. Now that Razor is in charge and similar results continue to flow a new culprit has been identified: Razor. Would it not be more mature to admit that our scrum is often bested, our lineouts are a shambles when Taylor is absent, and Beauden Barrett is a utility who is overly fond of dinky chip kicks who we can’t seem to move on from at first five. Damien McKenzie is electric but small and prone to being ragdolled. The backs have trouble securing the high ball. But if there are better players out there, please name them so we can all know who our potential saviours are. If you can’t throw into a lineout accurately, take a high ball, or catch a pass at this level then that’s frightening. It should be Razors job to teach players basic skills; they should be embedded by the time the player reaches this most elite of levels.
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September 14, 2025 11:09am
- OlderChas
  
  Damocles I think your last sentence should have the word shouldn’t instead of should, shouldn’t it? lol
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:25am
- MCōs
  
  A problem is that unlike the Springboks the ABs are selected from local players, more or less.
  Our best players are gobbled up by rich French or Japanese teams (or NRL teams) and are lost or even play for another country
  I went to a secondary schools sevens tournament and there was some serious talent on display. There were scouts over from several Australian NRL teams signing kids up via their fathers.
  I’m guessing, but I suspect local rugby doesn’t have the do re me.
  It would also be interesting to compare the ABs current record with what it was before the South African left the super competition leaving our guys with only the Aussies to compete against
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:57pm
Paulus

Was in my local 4Square shop this morning and overheard an elderly lady complaining that she always had the Sunday Star Times but it was not there but a new paper was called Te Tautiaki was and she was not buying a Maori paper, so did not.
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September 14, 2025 11:19am
- imalwaysright
  
  Its odd that Maori are the only Pacific Islanders where the majority don’t speak their language.
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:08pm
  - Jack5
    
    Hawaiians?
    
    Also, according to this source, some other islands are in danger of losing their native tongue — Rotuman, Tokelauan, Niuean, Cook Islands Maori and Tuvaluan.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018938156/fanning-the-sparks-of-dying-languages
    
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    September 14, 2025 12:42pm
Yvette

“In the Māori seats, it’s about the Māori people, Māori only,” and added: “Māori have unique rights as opposed to everyone else,” [Te Pāti Māori MP Tākuta Ferris] claimed.
One response to this statement is to ask “In what way does Tākuta Ferris define someone to be Maori?” How in fact does te Pati Maori define the same? Who is a Maori?
How does te Pati Maori define those who they are encouraging to join the Maori Roll?
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September 14, 2025 11:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Presumably the same way The Electoral Act defines a Maori:
  
  The Act states that “Māori means a person of the Māori race of New Zealand and
  includes any descendant of such a person”.
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/assets/Research/Enduring-census-information-requirements-for-and-about-Maori/enduring-census-information-requirements-for-and-about-maori.pdf
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:45pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Does that include non-maori that happen to be adopted by a Maori.
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:58pm
    - Paulus
      
      And now PIs in Auckland who are marrying into a so called Maori family and calling themselves Maori to get the benefits of being so.
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:12pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I feel sorry for Tākuta Ferris. Seriously. From his own statements it is obvious that the Tākuta part of him loathes the Ferris part of him.
  
  He really needs serious psychological help to come to terms with his earthy reality, and being in the Maori Party is not helping.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:23pm
- peterwn
  
  Presumably they think someone like David Seymour should not be able to go on the Maori roll.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:39pm
Pineapple Lumps

Does anyone here know how prevalent the musical instruments played by the maori entertainers prior to big rugby games were in pre-European society and beyond the treaty?

Large conch shells and long wooden trumpets appear to be the predominant forms being employed. I don’t recall seeing these prior to the modern maori romanticised renaissance.

Has any traditional music that utilised these been passed down?
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September 14, 2025 11:49am
- imalwaysright
  
  The man on the conch shell last night was miming to a prerecorded soundtrack.
  It went all wrong very quickly
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:06pm
  - Paulus
    
    You cannot get large Conch Shells in New Zealand waters !
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:13pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Correct – they were not used by Maori at all, neither the long ‘bugle’. But I believe that conch shells were used by Tongan & Samoan, and the long ‘bugles – I may be incorrect here – were used by Hawaians. The conch shells also were used by Tahitians & Hawaians.
      
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      September 14, 2025 3:16pm
- Jack5
  
  Maori didn’t have the tools to make wooden trumpets, however simple the “trumpets” were.
  
  Conch shells of the type used — Charonia tritonis — aren’t found on NZ beaches.
  
  New Maori use of these is cultural appropriation from Hollywood 3D animation entertainment.
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:37pm
  - AitchW
    
    To be fair, there is no reason why Maori can’t use simple musical instruments from another culture. The alternative is a culture firmly rooted 200 years ago.
    And we wouldn’t want that would we? Unless of course there is a Tiriti claim in there somewhere….
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:53pm
    - Paulus
      
      Like inventing the Guitar !
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:13pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    A small native conch shell Charonia lampas was usually used for the traditional pūtātara.
    
    Trumpets. Trumpets known as pūtara were made from New Zealand’s largest sea snail, Charonia lampas, by fitting a wooden mouthpiece to the top of an empty shell. A loud note is produced because the sound is amplified within the shell. The large, rare triton shell (Charonia tritonis) was also used. Live tritons are not found in New Zealand, although sometimes their dead shells wash up on northern shores.
    
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/shellfish/page-7
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:01pm
    - Jack5
      
      I’m sceptical about the possibility of getting any significant volume of sound out of the sea snail.
      
      The “wooden mouthpiece” would have had to be hollow, and you’d have needed something like a Bunnings or a Mitre 10 to get a “mouthpiece” of the right diameter — inner and outer.
      
      Compare with the mouthpieces on modern brass musical instruments. These are curved and shaped to fit the lips, and by their shape amplify the breath going into the tube.
      
      The sea snail amplification itself would be small, perhaps even faint, compared with, say, a bugle, or a cornet.
      
      If anyone blows on a sea snail shell at a function, check whether the mouthpiece is authentic.
      
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      September 14, 2025 3:16pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The “musical” instruments used by Pre-European Maori weren’t for making music (as such), but were used as warning devices…or to signal the start of something.
  
  https://www.tepapa.govt.nz/discover-collections/read-watch-play/maori/maori-musical-instruments
  
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  September 14, 2025 12:54pm
  - MCōs
    
    They weren’t used as musical instruments prior to the game last night either
    Away back in time the bagpipes probably weren’t a musical instrument either
    Spike Milligan says they were invented by the Irish to scare off the English
    
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    September 14, 2025 1:06pm
    - sirknz
      
      I heard that bagpipes are the biggest joke the Irish played on the Scots, and the Scots still haven’t got it.
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:19pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Bagpipes were also common throughout the middle east & Greece in days of yore.
        
        4 0
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        September 14, 2025 3:19pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Pre contact Maori had no music as the term is defined. A mandatory component of music is a tonal scale, which those Maori did not have.
  
  I don’t know whether pre contact Maori sang. Certainly, I’ve never heard anyone championing any songs that date back to those days.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:27pm
  - Paulus
    
    On Radio NZ this morning as a fill in was ancient musical song “Te Rapiti”!
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:15pm
Southern Raider

So either Tyler Robinson is fundamentalist Christian who murdered Charlie Kirk because he wasn’t right wing and conservative enough OR he’s living with a trans gender partner and murdered Charlie Kirk for being anti trans.

Only one of these things can be true
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September 14, 2025 12:20pm
- Wandering Star
  
  Do we know he murdered him yet? I predict there won’t be a trial which could answer the question either way.
  
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  September 14, 2025 1:49pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    Let me guess. Tyler is the fall guy because it was actually Mossad?
    
    If earth got hit by a meteor you would still claim the Jooooos did it
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:09pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      I asked you if we know that he murdered him yet. Do we know this, or do we not?
      
      1 8
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      September 14, 2025 2:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        Southern Raider you make your analysis “either or,”
        but what if the assassin were indeed transgender or a transgender person’s partner, but also what Wikipedia describes as a “pre” or “post” Stonewall LGBTQ Conservative?
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_conservatism
        
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        September 14, 2025 3:50pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Charlie Kirk shooting: Utah Governor links suspect to ‘leftist ideology’
    
    Meanwhile, it has emerged that Robinson had reportedly been living with his unidentified transgender lover at a home in Utah.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/charlie-kirk-shooting-utah-governor-links-suspect-to-leftist-ideology/F3EWSGHBFNCPZCZE7SN5XUAP4Y/
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:12pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      He may well have a “leftist ideology” and have an unidentified transgender lover, but there’s no logical or strong evidential link between these things and claims he shot Charlie Kirk.
      
      Aren’t “we” supposed to be the ones who insist on reason and evidence to support the truth or falsity of a given claim, while “the leftists” are supposed to be the irrational, emotional and non-evidential ones? It seems to me that, if “we” want to believe a given proposition badly enough, then “we” descend into a leftist mindset.
      
      I’ll happily believe the suspect killed Charlie Kirk if the weight of evidence proves it – until then, I have no reason to believe he did, and nor does anyone else.
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:59pm
  - rouppe
    
    Yes we do.
    
    His father confronted him. He admitted to it. He spoke with a church pastor who convinced him to turn himself in.
    
    I’d be surprised if there was a path out of that.
    
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    September 14, 2025 2:14pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      “His father confronted him. He admitted to it. He spoke with a church pastor who convinced him to turn himself in.”
      
      This is what we are being told. That’s not the same thing as testing the prosecution’s case in a court of law, which is the way we establish guilt or innocence. Unless I’m mistaken, this hasn’t happened yet. Has it?
      
      Let’s just save ourselves a lot of time, effort and expense and just reach our conclusions based on what the authorities claim within the first 72 hours or so shall we?
      
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      September 14, 2025 2:32pm
      - rouppe
        
        Absolutely it should be presented to a court. That will be the proper test.
        
        But the information hasn’t just come from authorities. It has come from his father, and other family members. A wide range of sources.
        
        “Our conclusions” are not a legal test. They are a personal opinion. I’m comfortable having come to my conclusion.
        
        I’d be interested to hear what other conclusion you have come to and the basis for that. Especially since you have such strong views on other things based on evidence other than that brought to a court of law, and are not shy putting those forward without that basis.
        
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        September 14, 2025 3:15pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone watch the Outsider special tribute to Charlie Kirk? It turns out the killer’s lover was someone transitioning to become a “woman”.
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September 14, 2025 1:08pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

From the same people who brought you “batters”, “man overboard” is to be replaced by “person in the water”.

More woke wank.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360823145/man-overboard-should-be-replaced-person-water-says-uk-yachting-association
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September 14, 2025 1:33pm
- AitchW
  
  Not to mention that it sounds a lot like “pissin in the water” not a phrase likely to cause any consternation…
  
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  September 14, 2025 2:27pm
vand

“Why don’t Arabs or Palestinians have this so-called right to exist? Is a right to exist solely an Israeli right, and if so, why?”

WS – many many Arab states -50 plus Islamic states. They want to create another one on land the Turks had conquered for a time in the past…
7 1
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September 14, 2025 2:43pm
Gravelroad

What happened to the social justice warrior guy who shot the wealthy insurance executive in the back whilst he was walking to the subway earlier this year?
Does anyone remember his name, or if a trial has been held?
Wasn’t the whole insurance industry going to be overhauled due to his brave actions?
And the allegedly overpaid insurance industry people were to get pay cuts resulting in lower premiums, and “fairness” etc?
Did that all happen as the result of the murder?
This will be the life for Tyler Robinson.
If/when found guilty, he will be imprisoned for years and years and soon no-one will remember his name.
Let alone why he did it.
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September 14, 2025 2:54pm
- rouppe
  
  Mangione, I think his name is.
  
  No I don’t think a trial has been held yet.
  
  No I didn’t cheat by googling. 😉
  
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  September 14, 2025 3:18pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  He will likely be executed.
  
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  September 14, 2025 3:52pm
NothingLeft

Mangioni will have a jury trial – that will likely opt for lesser punishment, and possibly even nullification.
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September 14, 2025 4:05pm
Jack5

Britain’s national body for yachting says the phrase “man overboard” is offensive.

The Royal Yachting Association wants this replaced with “person in water”.

The association had produced a language guide “honours and values” women and non-binary people within the sport and recreational activity.”

The Telegraph says the group is also telling members to avoid is “seamanship”, with people told to use “boat handling”, “navigation”, “deck work” or “maintenance” as replacements.
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September 14, 2025 5:20pm
AitchW

I’ve had an epiphany. I was watching telly when an ad for a programme with Phil Spencer showing off some stunning and, no doubt, very valuable homes around NZ. Looking at the promo I was struck by just how stunning these houses are. Were I 20 years younger I might aspire to owning one.
This, I believe is a fundamental difference between those of us to the right on the political spectrum and those on the left. We, on the right, celebrate the success of those building such houses. The left wishes to penalise them and despises them for their hard work.
Be on the right, people! You’ll be much happier and live longer.
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September 14, 2025 5:32pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s old school Marxism, the left want to take the fruits of your effort and give to their feckless losers who do nothing, but keep voting for them. Something interesting is happening in the UK and the US, new arrivals wanting to tap into this welfare are being told to fuck off. They and the left don’t like that. Something is brewing.
  
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  September 14, 2025 11:28pm
Takere

The best rugby I have watched was the 2015 RWC. Japan! When Japan beat South Africa 34–32!

At that RWC, Japan played the best rugby I’ve ever seen. Talk about about leaving it all out on the field! Emptying your tank out completely.
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September 14, 2025 6:38pm

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