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September 18, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 September 2025

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General Debate

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Nikola Donatello

Yesterday I commented about my experience in the challenge of understanding Te reo Maori in public sector meetings.

The following is a summary of what the Ministry for the Environment expects from staff. Note that I have never dealt with Mfe.

“Raising awareness of Māori culture”

Some of the ways we are doing this are by:

. using te reo Māori in our every day work

. te reo Māori classes

. using te reo Māori around the workplace and in hui, this includes opening and closing karakia in our regular hui or team korero

. waiata practice

. supporting annual events including Matariki and Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori.”

……. We continue to develop roles that have specific te ao Māori and Mātauranga Māori requirements.”

https://environment.govt.nz/about-us/jobs/te-ao-maori-at-mfe/

An expectation that staff should be” using te reo Māori in our every day work” is significant. Arguably it gives staff who have Maori proficiency permission to use te reo in meetings, regardless of the audience. Indeed, such staff could expect to be rewarded.

There is nothing unusual about MfE.

There is simply no room to object to the increasing use of te reo Maori in the public service. Neither is possible to get out of karakia at the beginning and end of every meeting. However that is somewhat of a different topic.
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September 18, 2025 8:02am
- Tricati
  
  And National wonder why they are loosing support. The removing of this type of Maorification, particularly in the Public Service, was a major election commitment last time around and one of the key reasons many voted for them.
  I feel they have lost a lot of core supporters over this issue, but the blinkers are on.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:10am
  - RoboRob
    
    It’s the incrementalism of the whole thing that is hurting the Nats. It does appear in some areas they are reigning this stuff in, but it is slow going and not well publicised. That leads to people in favour of removal of some of this stuff upset with perceived inaction. Meanwhile those in favour of the current system rage and protest minor changes. A good example of this is the teachers recently complaining around removal of Maori from some of their documentation. It is the worst of both worlds for the government. No one is happy.
    
    Contrast this with the orange man in the USA. Comes out and immediately proclaims ‘there are only two sexes, male and female. Government agencies will not refer to any other genders’ . Now there are questions around if he has the power to do this, but his fan base is happy and the complaints against it were short and sharp. People them moved on. National, who has MORE power then Trump, could have done the same in the first year. Supporters would be happy. People opposed would already be forgetting it.
    
    Again, in large part, this is a failure to communicate a strategy and clear principles. Would supporters be upset if we had been clearly told, ‘We are going to remove all this because we don’t believe it is good for race relations in NZ and it detracts from agencies core businesses. You can go to xyz.com to see a list of where it has been removed and areas we are working on’. Instead we have silence. Goldsmith spends 18mths of apparent inaction, then it turns out he was selecting a panel to do the work and a terms of reference. Who knew that was the plan? Then the working group says, it will all be complete in 2 months. Yeah right!
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:14am
    - Conservatarian
      
      Isn’t the [Mod – use actual names, not derogatory nicknames] just so disgusting and crude? He comes out and says *the things that we have always known*. And that we should ignore the taxpayer-funded gender and race communists at universities, schools, NGOs and in the public service who recently started telling us *we are so smart we realised we don’t actually know the things we have always known*
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:02am
    - artemisia
      
      Quite a bit of lawfare though RoboRob. Like the court case and Waitangi Tribunal application about abolishing the Maori Health Authority. And Waitangi Tribunal application for special citizenship rules for those with a drop of the right blood.
      
      About the blood quantum – a % restriction is never going to happen if civil war is to be avoided. Yet each generation expands the ‘drop of’ exponentially. A practical example is my shares in Maori land – couple more generations of succession and need the microscope to determine ownership.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:29am
      - RoboRob
        
        Our government is all powerful, unlike say Trump who is only one of three pillars of government in in the USA. The Waitangi tribunal was established to negotiate treaty settlements. Their other ‘powers’ have been allowed only through successive governments allowing them. The coalition could (and should) clarify what the Waitangi can and can’t become involved in. For example the Waitangi tribunal should have zero involvement around our immigration system.
        
        Anyway my point is, If the tribunal says ‘NO you cant remove Māori from x and y’ the government can say, tuff shit we are the democratically elected government of NZ go and sit in the corner and shut up. The Waitangi tribunal is not the judiciary.
        
        If the courts say you cant do x and y, it is against the law. Well guess what, the government makes the law and they can just change it as required.
        
        For far too long people on the right have been fed the line that ‘there’s only so much we can do’. Its about time we wake up and realise that the government of NZ can do anything they damned well want.
        
        Unfortunately at a time when we really need a government willing to make hard calls, we instead have a fence sitter in chief.
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:46am
      - Paulus
        
        So within time we will all be Maori and equally so, but some will be mor equal than others, like now !
        
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        September 18, 2025 2:52pm
    - Paulus
      
      Communication is not available with our Media.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:53am
  - pdm
    
    ACT had the answer with the Treaty Principles Bill.
    
    National and NZFirst torpedoed it.
    
    The more I see of Luxon, Potaka and Goldsmith the more convinced I am that they in particular want to see more and more Co-Governance and Partnerships with Maori.
    
    Go to You Tube and have a look at Duncan Garners latest podcast re Taupo District Council for an example.
    
    Where is Minister Watts on this rort?
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:24am
    - R
      
      ‘one of the key reasons……..’ Unfortunately the civil servant management who are responsible for implementing these policies, don’t vote Nation/ACT. Hence they don’t agree with this policy, and make no effort to enforce it. Another good reason why all heads of departments should have to ‘on paper’ resign on election eve. The competent ones would be quickly reemployed.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:56am
      - RoboRob
        
        The related ministers can issue letters of expectations to the various CEOs. If the expectations are not met then the related CEOs can be removed. See education for example, the MOE is very busy implementing Erika Stanfords policy, even though they likely oppose it.
        
        The issue is that most of the ministers involved didn’t address these issues in their letters of expectations. They chose not to do so because it makes their policy clear and National dont seem to want people to know what their policy is. If you aren’t up front on what you want, your CEO isn’t going to implement it.
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:51am
    - leoj
      
      ACT is the only option now.
      
      Luxon’s actions are clear. He is all for the continuation of the maorification of New Zealand, despite what the country wanted in 2023. He is deaf and blind to it.
      
      Can’t trust Winnie either. NEVER forget that he put Labour into power and Labour went ahead with the maorification on steroids.
      
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      September 18, 2025 4:52pm
      - Ronin
        
        It’s not within Winston’s interest to solve these issues. He relies on them to get re-elected. People have short memories. He says the same things every election cycle, but when given the opportunity, he does nothing to fix them. Rinse and repeat.
        
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        September 18, 2025 7:06pm
      - Mr T
        
        Be very clear, Winston is leaving open the possibility of going with labor. He has only ruled out Hipkins.
        But only to save us from labor going with tpm. ACT have got to get stronger, like reform in UK.
        Like the Tories National is a lost cause now
        
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        September 18, 2025 7:18pm
  - AitchW
    
    The public service is openly hostile. It will keep running with this sort of behaviour till a chief executive or two are sacked. And some middle managers as well probably.
    The boss of MFE needs to told to explain to the minister how their relentless Maorification achieves its goal of looking after the environment.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:38am
    - Paulus
      
      Even if they are sacked they will have left a few layers employed by them, following the footsteps they created.
      Currently will make no difference.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:54am
  - peterwn
    
    Oh well, they will just have to put up with a Labour-Green-TMP for the next six years or so.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:53am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      National need to wake up to the fact that such a threat is no longer enough as people look into an inevitable post-National future, which, as I pointed out earlier, will come sooner or later no matter how well they do.
      
      Between falling support and younger people – many with families – fleeing the country, the message is that they’re escaping what they now see as inevitable.
      
      If nothing is really going to change, if this stuff is going to keep increasing even under National, then the threat of it accelerating in 2026 is no greater a threat than if it happens after 2029 or 2032.
      
      What National should be thinking about – what it should have been thinking about from day one of government – is avoiding the fate of the Conservatives in Britain.
      
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      September 18, 2025 12:00pm
  - Anthony Melchett
    
    Yes, but where does the support go to?
    
    National aren’t removing enough maorification, so I’m going to vote labour to get even more maorification? Doesn’t make sense
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:07am
  - Positan
    
    I’ve been a Nat member for nearly 60 years, but Luxon’s ongoing stupidity in not putting a stop to the maorifying of everything has killed my support for the party.
    
    DOES THAT SILLY MAN NOT ASK HIMSELF THE QUESTION ASKED NOW BY SO MANY NEW ZEALANDERS, “WHAT ABOUT THE FAR GREATER IMPORTANCE OF MY CULTURE TO ME?”
    
    Luxon’s lack of political awareness as to the damage of maorification to our once stable society and the resultant damage has wrought – has FINALLY done it for me.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:08am
    - pdm
      
      Positan – You should email that question to him plus all of the National Parliamentary Caucus.
      
      If you do that, pointing out your long history as a Party Member, one or two of the caucus might read it, absorb it and circulate the message.
      
      Don’t just go to Luxon – his sycophants won’t tell him.
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:44am
    - peterwn
      
      So you are saying you know more about political strategy than Chris Luxon, Nicola Willis etc. Get your head out of the clouds.
      
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      September 18, 2025 6:40pm
      - Positan
        
        [Mod – abuse deleted]
        1. Itemise what you can honestly see Luxon’s “strategy”, and
        2. Indicate ANYTHING at all Luxon has done as PM that would in any way confirm he is possessed of anything remotely akin to “political strategy.”
        
        As to my own qualifications, I have more political strategy in my fingernails than Luxon has in his entire corpus.
        
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        September 18, 2025 8:04pm
  - RoboRob
    
    In 2022 (and probably other years) Labour put in their letter of expecations the following…
    
    ‘Important priorities include working as a unified values-based Government for all New Zealanders, supporting future-focussed Māori Crown relations and contributing to improving wellbeing’
    
    and
    
    We will be interested to see how the EPA will embed regulatory excellence and rigour within its Compliance, Monitoring and Enforcement (CME) business group functions, deliver robust and timely decisions and operations, and engage effectively and transparently with Māori and other stakeholders
    
    and
    
    We are pleased to hear of the positive feedback you’ve received on the EPA’s implementation of the Mātauranga Māori Framework to support decision-making
    
    https://www.epa.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Documents/EPA-Publications/Environment-Minister-Letter-of-Expectations-to-EPA-Board-2022/23.pdf
    
    The 2025 letter (from National), which is much better, says nothing about Maori. However it also certainaly doesn’t mention reigning in the Maori stuff at all either. So why would we expect any change?
    
    https://www.epa.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Documents/EPA-Publications/Environment-Minister-Letter-of-Expectations-to-EPA-Board-2025-2026.pdf
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:59am
- Inandout
  
  Nik, this force feeding of te reo has worsened since this govt has gained power. Politicians’ promises are nothing more than shit.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:10am
- Simon
  
  Modern NZ form of white guilt struggle sessions. Core National party
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:14am
- cmm
  
  Are the karakia really a different topic? It is all part of the same thing – to push this agenda and firmly designate this as a place where non-Maori are not welcome.
  
  This is two years into a National government that tub-thumped about fixing all this nonsense. As good as it is ever likely to get.
  
  It is not going to improve under a Labour government – especially one that is being supported by TPM.
  
  Lift your head up above the day to day grind and look 5 to 10 years into the future. What is that going to look like?
  
  I am 63 so on my glide path now and I am not involved in government troughs – so this does not impact me personally (other than through my wallet). If I was younger than about 60 I would be seriously concerned about future career prospects. If I was younger than 55, I would leave NZ.
  
  If you’re going to be forced out, then do it on your own terms – make an exit plan. Either re-train to escape government work or join the 100 to 200 that make the daily one-way trip out of NZ.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:15am
  - Simon
    
    Yep the NZ dream for hard working is to have enough money to escape the consequences of the NZ government
    
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    September 18, 2025 8:26am
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    “Lift your head up above the day to day grind and look 5 to 10 years into the future. What is that going to look like?”
    
    In ten years, it will be impossible to be a public servant unless you are at least somewhat proficient in Maori. 40 years from now, it will be difficult to live in New Zealand without Maori proficiency.
    
    Of course it is ironic that the trend I have outlined has intensified and accelerated under this government. TBH I think they are oblivious.
    
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    September 18, 2025 8:28am
    - cmm
      
      I can’t believe they are oblivious. I think they are complicit. They talk the talk to appease people but are failing to walk the walk.
      
      If they really are oblivious then that is gross negligence. It is their job to know what is going on – can’t claim ignorance as an excuse. Besides, Blind Larry can see what is happening.
      
      Again, look into the future. If a “Right Wing” government is behaving like this now then how are they are going to be behaving in 10+ years?
      
      Given breeding rates, NZ will be more than 50% Maori and PI by 2060. 40% of primary -age kids are already Maori/PI and by 2040 they are expected to be over 50%.
      
      These people do not seem to understand who is the goose that lays the golden eggs. Getting rid of whitey will make this into PNG.
      
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      September 18, 2025 8:56am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “I think they are oblivious”.
        
        Either they are oblivious (they aren’t )
        Or
        It is Government policy
        Or
        The bureaucracy are now more powerful than the government (effectively a coup d’état)
        
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        September 18, 2025 9:04am
    - 2ic
      
      @Nikola: “Of course it is ironic that the trend I have outlined has intensified and accelerated under this government. TBH I think they are oblivious.”
      
      Isn’t the more obvious explanation that they actually support it? See this Facebook post by Chris Luxon on Monday:
      
      https://www.facebook.com/christopherluxon/posts/pfbid02iNm2NKQcF94B6HMBUY5mzEMrXA5JgWDsRXGJrfVvg9kJYAA6zPhwVLZrt9GXbeRxl
      “This is the 50th anniversary of Māori Language Week, Te Wiki o te reo Māori.
      “That’s a fine record and while, like many New Zealanders, I wish I knew more te reo, I’ll keep trying – this week and every week.”
      
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      September 18, 2025 8:59am
    - Prince
      
      Nothing to do with Govt. Young people today learn basic Maori, and are quite happy to use a few words. It is quite defferent and challenging to those aged over, say, 40, but no Govt can turn that tide back.
      I think we need to base voting on more important matters like the economy.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:02am
      - Nikola Donatello
        
        I’m not talking about a few words. I am talking about quite extensive use in the conduct of business. I set this out in my comments on GD yesterday.
        
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        September 18, 2025 9:33am
      - R
        
        ‘like the economy’…… Prince try explaining that to the media journalists. I doubt that some of them know what an economy is, or the significance of same to their lifestyle
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:03am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        I think we need to base voting on more important matters like the economy.
        
        Yeah, yeah…
        “… the National Party does not do culture wars.
        
        and…
        
        “We’ve just got to leave those losers behind and move on. They don’t like tangata whenua. They dream of a world that never was and never could be,”
        
        Economies are built on cultures.
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:13am
      - cmm
        
        “Young people today learn basic Maori”
        
        I’ll push back on that, for three reasons:
        1) Basic language, as taught at school, is not fluency or proficiency. Ask any person who has studied French and then ends up in France on holiday – they are ill equipped.
        
        I grew up in South Africa and learned Afrikaans at school. I could understand Afrikaans (eg. watch a TV programme dubbed into Afrikaans). I would read and write and speak Afrikaans well enough to pass exams but I was far from fluent – even after 10 years of school Afrikaans – at least one period a day. It was only after a few months of being 100% immersed in Afrikaans in the Army that I would say I was fluent.
        
        2) The vast majority of Maori people are not fluent in Maori – even the young ones – and have no intention of ever being fluent. A few months back I had some treatment by a Maori physio. His father is a Maori language and culture tutor, but he himself struggles with Maori. He can understand what is going on but says he is not fluent and can’t be bothered learning.
        
        3) For NZ to prosper, we need everyone to be able to plug in to the economy and government. We need to be able to import skilled people because we do not have enough. Throwing up the very arbitrary barrier of Maori language proficiency requirements makes that much harder to achieve. It is one thing importing Filipino nurses who can speak English – quite another finding those that can speak Maori.
        
        Skilled people have options. If they are forced to learn Maori to get ahead, they will just choose to go somewhere else where they are welcome.
        
        Bottom line is that this is just the thin end of the wedge. It will not just stop with a karakia. Give an inch and you will end up giving a mile.
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:23am
    - kiwimike
      
      rubbish they know and deliberately turn a blind eye.
      are you being duplicious here ?
      that is not a place of integrity…
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:31pm
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    Karakia can be rote learned. Using te reo for actual business has real world impacts.
    
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    September 18, 2025 8:43am
    - wsk12345
      
      I don’t see your point.
      
      I can still remember in full the maori songs we were forced to sing in school DAILY 40 years ago. I still don’t know what they mean and never will because i am not interested and it is NOT
      MY CULTURE. The more it is forced, like the vaccines, the less likely i am to be interested.
      
      However I’m very good at what i do so i have options other than staying here.
      
      And yes you’re right, using the Maori lingo for business does have real implications as it’s less likely to be clear and concise. Imagine litigating those contracts where nobody ever really defines the words….
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:34am
      - Paulus
        
        I heard Te Rapiti on RNZ the other day – so back to the future.
        
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        September 18, 2025 2:56pm
  - Philview
    
    My take on the future is that we will reach a point where the UK appears to be at now. We will be arrested for online criticism of certain groups of people. A he puapua type scenario is coming our way and will not be stopped now.
    
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    September 18, 2025 8:50am
  - AitchW
    
    Surely performing karakia routinely or even compulsorily violates the basic principle of separation of church and state?
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Isn’t the Karakia a feminist form of the violent male Haka.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:56am
    - muzled
      
      My understanding is that it’s a prayer.
      
      But in my time growing up in a small community with a lot of Maori, they were never done outside of ‘special occaisions’ or one off events.
      
      Ie – they would never be done at the beginning of every meeting like AT were apparently doing some time ago according to a friend who worked there.
      
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      September 18, 2025 2:10pm
  - PeeJay
    
    Good comments as usual cmm.
    
    Hits home a bit this one.
    
    I’m actually unemployed at the moment – work in construction consultancy and was made redundant over 4 months ago. Our company had to close down the local office due to lack of work – been bad through most of 2024 so they needed to stop the bleeding. They were gutted but business is business. They’ve bought some time, but they are in bad shape, as are most of their competitors.
    
    I’ve had no luck locally – very quiet and the few opportunities are inundated with hundreds of applications. One of my old colleagues works for a national firm and they had a role up for one morning before they had to withdraw it – some 370+ applications in a matter of hours. Some were local, loads of overseas graduates on visas, loads with no visas and looking for sponsorship, but very little talent. It’s grim and it’s not looking like 2026 is going to be any better.
    
    The reason I note this is that I’m currently weighing up an offer from Southeast Queensland. I’m under 55, not by much, so it’s a difficult one. I don’t really want to move – feel like I’m a bit old to be doing that and leaving family behind, but with an eye to the future, I am concerned. I have the same concerns as those you note.
    
    Most days I feel like I am too old to move but then I remember my in-laws in South Africa. Some of them are now in their late 60’s and really regret not taking the opportunity to leave, even in their mid-50’s when they could get out, even at a cost in terms of quality of life. Does make me wonder if I should go for it while I still can.
    
    My situation is far from unique either – every few weeks for the last 6 months, I’ve been going out to someone’s farewell drinks as they head over to Aus. While some have been the usual graduates and 30 somethings heading out on an OE, I’ve been shocked at how many are in their early-to-mid 50’s. And they have the same concerns – a fair few have even been Maori and Pacific Islander. They all have similar concerns – struggling to get ahead now, but real concerns about what’s coming.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:09am
    - All_on_Red
      
      You should leave
      Construction isn’t coming back soon
      Good luck
      
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      September 18, 2025 12:05pm
      - PeeJay
        
        Thanks All_on_Red.
        
        Bloody difficult one – if I was a bit younger, I wouldn’t even be hesitating.
        
        You are on the money on construction though – forward projections and trends in construction industry are not looking great at the moment!
        
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        September 18, 2025 12:14pm
    - cmm
      
      Wishing you the best PeeJay. These are only choices you and your family can make.
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:31pm
      - PeeJay
        
        Thanks cmm – certainly not an easy decision!
        
        Less said about the resident downticker the better!
        
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        September 18, 2025 2:44pm
- Yvette
  
  Nikola Donatello and Cmm
  – this includes opening and closing karakia in our regular hui or team korero
  Why does each meeting not start with an Islamic Call to Prayer?
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:22am
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    The answer would be that Muslims are not Treaty partners.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:02am
    - mandk
      
      But the Crown is.
      
      So perhaps we should demand that all meetings start with a rendition of God Save the King.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:06am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Mandk
        
        Well said.
        
        Strange how the honour and benefits of being a Partner only apply to one side.
        
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        September 18, 2025 9:30am
    - Yvette
      
      Nikola, the so-called Fourth Article of the Treaty of Waitangi was not written into the text but was verbally stated by Governor Hobson on 6 February 1840. At the request of missionary leaders, he assured Māori that all religions—including Anglican, Catholic, Wesleyan, and traditional Māori beliefs—would be protected under British rule. Though unofficial, many Māori regard this promise as part of the Treaty’s spiritual integrity. It affirms freedom of religion and equal protection for all faiths, and continues to be referenced in discussions of religious rights and Crown obligations to honour tikanga Māori alongside introduced religions.
      I doubt however that a circumstance was envisaged where Christian prayer or the equivalent would be excluded and only a Maori approach for all would dominate, otherwise the missionaries translating the English text may have said “Do it yourselves”
      
      The question which remains is: Does the UN Declaration of Human rights trump (sic) the Treaty of Waitangi regards religious freedom, which should also include the right to be free of it.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:33am
      - R
        
        envisaged….. the missionaries were not as devious as the future offspring of the Maori were going to be
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:07am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Nobody is a treaty partner because it is not a partnership.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:41am
      - Nikola Donatello
        
        Well public servants are only employed if they agree to uphold the partnership. If the government thinks otherwise the PM should say so.
        
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        September 18, 2025 9:59am
  - cmm
    
    Good point. NZ is a multicultural society. Maybe each day in a fortnight should have different intros: Maori, Tongan, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, …
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:09am
    - RoboRob
      
      Tell that to the MOE. Our corriculm is based around our Bicultural society! That would be Maori and other.
      
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      September 18, 2025 9:18am
  - pdm
    
    For 4 years at CHB College, Waipukurau – 1960 to 1963 – we sang God Save The Queen and recited the Lords Prayer at every school assembly.
    
    They have been cast into oblivion now and I say that is not a good thing.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:29am
- JackRabbit
  
  …using te reo Māori in our every day work.
  
  We live in a global society. Trying doing anything in Te Reo, and you go nowhere. It is a limited language, that has no use in modern society. As a culture study, yes. As a use no.
  
  The Maori language in modern society could be compared to building a 600km/hr bullet train using NZ steam powered locomotives from the 1870’s.
  
  Lipstick on a pig.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:59am
  - R
    
    a cultural study, actually a hobby language! Like many other small world language studies
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:10am
  - Terry Dalee
    
    I’ve got friends who are Air NZ pilots. I’ve asked them to see if they can ask for the flight manual in Te Reo.
    
    It comes in French, so why not Maori…
    
    10 1
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    September 18, 2025 10:38am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And while you are at it, all the engineering, electronics, software, and software manuals and schematics in Maori.
      
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      September 18, 2025 4:38pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  I agree however there will be a tipping point where the vast majority of citizens rebel against the Maorification of New Zealand. At that point they will reject the Maori nonsense and consign it to the bin where it belongs. I suspect it will be recent immigrants especially Chinese and Indian who reject Maori special treatement and want to live like most of us in a society where all are treated equally who will lead the charge.
  I find it ironic that much of the Maori special treatment breaches NZ and international laws and conventions. As many have posted substitute Maori for another race and there would be cries of racism because that is what it is and we should keep calling it out as such.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:08am
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    I disagree. There will be no tipping point.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:00am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Correct.
      We are compliant to the point that if we aren’t being told what to do we have a collective anxiety attack.
      
      12 1
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      September 18, 2025 10:21am
  - cmm
    
    I think there will be a tipping point – but in the other direction (ie. pro-Maori direction).
    
    By 2060 Maori and PI will be over 50% of the population. Why would they care what the Chinese and Indians think?
    
    If you add to those Maori and PI all the pro-Maori whites (eg. Green supporters and all the schoolkids brainwashed into white guilt and Maori awsomeness) then you don’t need to wait until 2060. We’re almost there.
    
    Heck, it isn’t even just Green supporters. Luxon has nailed his colours to the mast too!
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:33am
    - R
      
      ‘why would they care’ …..they will once NZ is overruns by the Chinese communist party, encouraged by a communist Russia
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:18am
  - Paulus
    
    30 years too late !
    
    1 0
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    September 18, 2025 2:59pm
- Paulus
  
  And nothing will change any time soon !
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:12am
- artemisia
  
  It’s a helluva lot easier to start something than to stop it. In this case proposing (or actually) stopping would be loud, highly confrontational and charges of racist, social justice etc. To counter it needs ‘the song of angry men’, not happening.
  
  One thing that is happening is withdrawal of some race based funding. Hopefully more to come.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:19am
- lifesgood
  
  Everyone needs to time their entry into any meeting that involves a karakia to after the karakia is over. Any excuse can be used…The traffic was terrible is a good one.
  
  15 2
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  September 18, 2025 9:28am
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    You would receive formal disciplinary action if you pulled that stunt.
    
    10 3
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    September 18, 2025 10:01am
    - imalwaysright
      
      The Public Service sounds like a crap version of North Korea.
      
      14 2
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      September 18, 2025 10:23am
    - wsk12345
      
      My mate does it every meeting. [Mod – just end it without the abuse]
      
      4 1
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      September 18, 2025 10:38am
    - AitchW
      
      I wonder if you were to claim that it violated your religious beliefs it would give you a reason not to participate. I’m, nominally at least, Anglican, I’m not sure that I believe in the pagan mumbo jumbo promoted in karakia.
      PG anyone? Constructive dismissal if I were to resign after a disciplinary action?
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:40am
- wsk12345
  
  Well I have a friend that refused to participate and it’s fine. She turns up 5-10 min late for meetings. Doesn’t seem to affect her ability to get contracts even now. She has worked across probably 8 ministries over the past 5-6 years. She is very good at her job though while most civil servants I know are pretty crap.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:34am
  - Nikola Donatello
    
    If she is a contractor she can get away with it.
    
    8 1
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    September 18, 2025 10:02am
    - wsk12345
      
      Whatever.
      
      It’s much easier to get rid of contractors. But they are the ones that so most of the work so they probably don’t.
      
      I’d suggest trying to be an important part of your department, be excellent at what you do, and you will find you can Get away with pretty much anything.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:40am
- Paulus
  
  Tough we cannot stop it ~!
  We are moving fast into a Maori controlled Left Wing country faster than ever conceived or believed would ever possible.
  Next years election favouring the collective anti Government will be a watershed moment to New Zealand, to be Aotearoa.
  And few even care, just me me me !
  
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  September 18, 2025 10:50am
- Terry Dalee
  
  I hear it’s Maori language month. What’s the Te Reo for:
  
  Infanticide
  Methamphetamine
  P pipe
  Marijuana
  Domestic violence
  Restraining order
  
  Asking for a friend…
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:17am
- PurplePen
  
  And is any of all the effort required costed at all.
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:36am
Cassandra

US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is traveling with President Trump in London. They’re in Windsor Castle right now. Bessent is gay, has been a friend of the King and Queen for 20 years and is a key link between the UK and the US. MAGA is not all good ole boys. Trump and Bessent used to be Democrats.
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September 18, 2025 8:10am
- mandk
  
  And the point of noting that Bessent is gay is what precisely?
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:31am
  - Cassandra
    
    The good ole boys bit. I thought it was obvious. Trump is accused of being a far right fascist yet his Treasurer is gay and socially liberal. Trump is not the hitlerite maniac his critics allege. There, is that enough explanation?
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:36am
    - mandk
      
      OK. Got you now.
      
      6 1
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      September 18, 2025 10:17am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I think you’re wasting your time with such arguments because we’ve already won – at least in the US – which is why Trump is President, with substantial, if still not majority support, in groups like Blacks, Hispanics and Gays.
      
      Oh I’m sure the MSM is still banging this drum, plus the Leftist Social Media (esp. BlueSky 🤣🤣🤣), because they’ve got nothing else so are doubling down. But if it worked they wouldn’t be losing power.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:18am
    - Wandering Star
      
      Oh, God. Can “conservatives” stop falling over themselves to demonstrate how liberal they really are to the left liberals, by showing how pro-gay, pro-Feminist, and not-“racist” they are? No wonder conservatives continually lose when they have the same moral framework as left liberals and thus believe that getting onside with their putative opponents is the number 1 priority.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:41am
- Wandering Star
  
  I don’t see the point of this post. Is the situation you describe a positive or a negative?
  
  Are you saying that MAGA is more about cosmopolitan gays who could just as easily be Democrats than it is about “good ole boys”?
  
  If you are, you are 100% right, because it always has been (particularly this term) but that’s not a good thing – “MAGA” administrations have always consciously excluded any “good ole boy” (in its broadest meaning) element to ensure the liberal elite who dictate policy aren’t disadvantaged in any way.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:40am
  - cmm
    
    Does something have to have a positive or a negative?
    
    The real world is shades of grey.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:33am
    - gravedodger
      
      Fifty shades of Grey aren’t there, at least E L James thinks so?
      
      5 1
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      September 18, 2025 10:15am
    - Wandering Star
      
      The post was made for a reason, not because the commenter is undecided about the value-statement they are putting forward.
      
      The subtext of the post is clearly “see, isn’t it great that MAGA has its own contingent of liberal cosmopolitan homosexuals, so that we can show the left how much we too reject the “good ole boys” who actually support MAGA.”
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:46am
      - Mr T
        
        Nah, current National supporters just won’t vote, just like in UK
        
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        September 18, 2025 8:08pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I’m sure if you think about it, Wandering Star, that the penny will drop. Trump is accused of being a far right fascist yet his Treasurer is gay and socially liberal. Trump is not the hitlerite maniac his critics allege. But also that Bessent is an old friend of the King and Queen. Particularly close to Camilla. Very good for the UK.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:38am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Pssssttt…. [Mod – Debate the topics]
      
      7 3
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      September 18, 2025 10:21am
    - Wandering Star
      
      That’s the rub, though, and the point of departure as to what Trump “should” be. Unlike you, I don’t think Trump should have a liberal agenda.
      
      I’d much rather Trump was a “far right fascist” who actually made meaningful systemic change in America, than a New York liberal who feels the need to display his woke credentials by showing how inoffensive and pro-gay he really is. WTF are we trying to achieve here?
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:52am
      - Gussy Fink-Nottle
        
        So Star, Trump feels the need to display his woke credentials? And Trump has a liberal agenda?
        
        Are you as sure about that as you are about Russian non-aggression, based on your assertion that the Czars didn’t do as much as they might have, and that nothing in the last 80 years actually happened?
        
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        September 18, 2025 11:49am
      - Wandering Star
        
        I’ll believe Trump’s not essentially a liberal when he’s forcibly deported at least 5 million illegals in 12 months, halted all legal immigration from the non-White world, fired 95% of all the women, gays, POCs and dual citizens on his staff, and replaced them with Christian White males. Instead, I expect he’ll do none of these illiberal things, and will instead continue highlighting all he does for the Hispanic and Black communities, while doing nothing for his overwhelmingly White male base.
        
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        September 18, 2025 2:51pm
- MCōs
  
  He also used to work for George Soros up until about ten years ago and was involved in the plan that broke the Bank of England
  https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/26/business/scott-bessent-wall-street-treasury.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:07am
  - Cassandra
    
    Telegraph report on the State Dinner: Donald Trump is a performer of many parts. Sometimes carnival huckster, sometimes granite jawed leader, sometimes Fox News pundit. On Wednesday evening, we got the statesman as he delivered a sober speech to the state banquet at Windsor Castle.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:05am
ecco

Interesting that nz herald decided to only feature the article on the ill advised statements that Sam Stubbs, CEO of Simpilicity funds, made about the killing of Charlie Kirk, for half a day. Then removed all traces of the article from their home page by the afternoon. Stubbs was basically saying good riddance to Charlie because his views didn’t concur with Stubbs far left leaning, woke worldview.

Shows the inherent bias to the left we are getting drip fed by nzh. They do this often. I’m pretty sure articles about Stuart Nash’s recent comments ran for more than half a day on nzh. The result being that Stubbs still has his job, Nash does not.

Did the nz herald take it down due to Stubbs company advertising with nzh? No that can’t be that as Stubbs always uses social media like Facebook and reddit groups to get free advertising to reach his millennial target based audience. So it must be nzh bias to the left, in using the time it features negative left leaning articles on its home page.

Let’s hope anyone searching up Stubbs can still find that article to show what Stubbs’ real persona is underneath the facade he puts up.

Nb anyone thinking of investing in Stubbs’ KiwiSaver fund should know that they will be massively overweight the nz property market via the Simplicity fund holding of 4% in his unlisted Simplicity property development company. The FMA should take a look at how that holding is being valued. Just saying.
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September 18, 2025 8:17am
- RoboRob
  
  Don’t normally go to the Herald but on Monday I could find no mention of the post in any mainstream media, having been off the grid over the weekend. On Tuesday it did get coverage on at least two sites, BUT that was a story about the apology. Yes it did mention what was being apologised for but you cant really do an apology without that can you.
  
  Compare the coverage of Stubbs outrageous comments with that of the National MP who said ‘Don’t you know who I am’. Just saying. It’s no coincidence that this left wing company and media personality that gets plenty of free coverage in the media, is having this whole thing memory holed.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:26am
  - ecco
    
    Come to think of it, it was probably a paid apology from Stubbs on NZH.
    
    More concerning is his slipping in his Simplicity Living unlisted company into all his funds, including his kiwisaver funds. You aren’t even allowed to have private equity companies in your 401k in the US. Just shows how wild west NZ still is when people like Stubbs do that.
    
    He’s got a mortgage company in there too, so if you have Simplicity Kiwisaver growth fund you are very exposed to the nz housing market with his mortgage operations and new house building. Wonder if that will end well. Not easy making a living as a property developer in NZ at the moment.
    
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    September 18, 2025 12:43pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Much of his recent publicity has been around how he is solving the housing crisis! So yeah, a very compliant media here.
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:23pm
Simon

After GFC National under John Key boosted NZ short term GDP with floods of dirty money out of China. Sold NZ out.

Looks like those clowns under Luxon want to repeat somehow with India. Boost house prices via immigration and crashing interest rates. Get the feel good moving. All the while maintaining the grotesque weight of the state.

What National know so long as house prices keep going up their boomer supporters will be happy and overlook the worst garbage of the state.
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September 18, 2025 8:22am
- Local Miller
  
  Except house prices have come down.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:59am
  - RoboRob
    
    And the RBNZ sets interest rates!
    
    p.s. The interest rates were hiked by the RBNZ to kill the economy and fix inflation, which is their job. Now inflation is mostly under control, they are returning interest rates to a neutral position. They haven’t even started stimulus yet.
    
    p.p.s Yes that’s right, the RBNZ fixed inflation. Not Luxon. The main way government controls inflation is through borrowing / spending. More of this, pumps up inflation (see Labour), less of this reduces inflation. Unfortunately National failed to actually cut this (see Willis). So yeah, RBNZ fixed inflation, which it actually helped cause (see Orr and money printing)
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:27am
    - Quail
      
      RR.
      The OCR is the main tool to ensure the stability of the NZD.
      For this country to thrive it is essential that this small currency remains stable.
      A volatile exchange rate will inevitably damage the NZ economy.The stability of the exchange rate vs world currency values is essential for internal and offshore trading success.
      In the past currency traders have, made fortunes speculating and influencing NZD value by using international capital flows. The NZD was one of the most traded $ in the OECD
      Politicians earlier also tried to set the value of the NZD by edict.Recent instruction ( Labour) to the RB included labour market consideration.
      None of this was satisfactory .
      Today the value of the NZD is largely set by yield, ie interest rates (OCR)
      This is why politicians and other special interest groups such as exporters be kept away from influencing the Reserve Bank!
      This is why the Reserve Bank must maintain its clear independence , operating with a strong focus on maintaining the stability of the NZD.
      Recent calls to fiddle with the OCR to fix the housing market and other issues do not help.
      There must be some certainly around the NZD.
      Governments inflation targets must be implemented without question.
      
      NZ needs a strong independent Reserve Bank
      
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      September 18, 2025 8:31pm
- cmm
  
  NZ got a huge boost from the Canterbury earthquakes. These created a huge inflow of insurance money. Without that it is fair to think that NZ would have struggled more during the GFC.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:31am
  - RoboRob
    
    100% NZ was very lucky that the Canterbury earthquakes acted as a massive stimulus for the country, right when it was needed.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:02am
  - Paulus
    
    Struggle would be an understatement !
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:02am
- AitchW
  
  Here’s an inconvenient truth though, prices have dropped and although they’re starting to climb I don’t believe we’ll see the sort of rampant house price inflation that Ardern and Robertson caused for a long, long time.
  
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  September 18, 2025 10:54am
cmm

I am sure that it must be hell losing a child and that makes people lash out and look for something, and someone else, to blame.

But zooming in on the foam filled couch as being the cause of the death seems a bit of an overreach to me.

The couch did not spontaneously combust. It would seem that an open fire was left unattended and that is what ignited the couch which was far too close to the fire.

Yes, the use of a fire-suppressant foam could have made a big difference, but that was only one of many links in the chain that lead to this death. Not placing furniture close to a fire would have made a difference. Using a suitable fire guard would have made a difference – as would extinguishing the fire before leaving it unattended.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coroner-blames-unsafe-sofa-and-deplorable-mbie-inaction-for-canterbury-teen-lizzy-marvins-death-in-house-fire/4IXPD7K45RBSJO5O6UMW3VZ64U/
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September 18, 2025 8:26am
- Local Miller
  
  While any death is tragic, there have apparently been 2 deaths in 16 years that can be associated with flammable foam filling in furniture. While the previous one was in 2019, there’s no reference to any other’s prior to that, so it’s possible that there may have been 2 such deaths in 30 or 40 years.
  Given the sleeper couch was only 60cm from the fire, I think this was by far a bigger factor than what the couch was made of.
  So the coroner wants MBIE to force changes on what furniture can be made of to prevent 2 deaths every 30 – 50 years. Maybe fire places should come with warnings “Keep all furniture at least 2m clear of the fire!”
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:52am
  - artemisia
    
    With the current literacy stats in New Zealand, each fireplace would need a movement sensor and loud audio. A siren or ‘Pull up! Pull up!’
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:25am
  - cmm
    
    Anything to protect “victims” from accountability.
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:29am
  - R
    
    The reporting reads like this fire was caused by ‘spontaneous combustion’. I would burst into flames if I was left parked 60cm from a recently stoked fire
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:20am
    - Local Miller
      
      The cough started burning when more wood was thrown on the fire and sparks were thrown out, landing on the couch. More than just sparks I think, possibly a piece of burning wood. At 60cm from the fire I’d not be surprised if the foam was close to flash point already and the “sparks” just pushed it over the edge.
      You can’t stand that close to a fire for any length of time, why would you put your furniture that close?
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:57am
- rouppe
  
  Flammability warnings would not have changed a thing. Because all furniture has some flammability and so they will all have a warning.
  
  The key attribute of that couch – it was cheap – will still have won out in the purchasing decision.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:17am
  - cmm
    
    I think the point is that for $5 more, the couch could be made from fire-retardant foam.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:36am
    - Local Miller
      
      You are optimistic if you think $5 would cover it. Make it out of flame-retardant material and add 50% to the retail price
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:59am
    - marleybob
      
      I’m an upholsterer recently retired after 54yrs in the trade. 30 odd yrs ago this very question came up after a similar death and the proposal was making it mandatory to only use fire retardent foams as used in the aero industry. The cost would have doubled the price of a lounge suite and more than likely forced furniture companies to shut shop. The free trade with China and imported furniture killed the NZ industry.
      
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      September 18, 2025 5:32pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Always pleasantly surprised by the depth of experience and expertise that pops up on KB
        
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        September 18, 2025 8:37pm
imalwaysright

Maori word of the day on TV 1 breakfast programme is:

HAUMI

It means Ally

Pronounced Homy, as in the US ghetto slang for ‘neighborhood friend’.

Historical usage: “Captain Cook is my haumi, chur bro!'”
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September 18, 2025 8:28am
Observant Octagenarian

I noticed on the 3 news last night a snippet about Gaza. The people interviewed did not seem to be victims of famine – seemed reasonably well nourished – and the background people, walking among rubble, weren’t carrying food bowls.
I wonder why journalists can’t see this either?
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September 18, 2025 8:47am
- RoboRob
  
  Don’t believe your lying eyes! There is famine in Gaza, Hamas and the media says so, it must be true.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:35am
  - OlderChas
    
    Oh and genocide too. The UN says so.
    
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    September 18, 2025 12:14pm
- RichardF
  
  According to ChatGPT, there are more than 60 armed conflicts happening around the globe. Why are lefties so enraged by Palestine while ignoring the atrocities in Ukraine, Sudan, the Congo and many more places? I bet if the US was involved they’d be waving their flags outside the embassy in a heartbeat. Therefore my hypothesis is the free Palestine crowd are actually anti-West. Palestine is just the latest trendy wagon they can hitch onto.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:37am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    Glad to hear someone else gets it.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:06am
  - PurplePen
    
    You’d have to conclude they’re somewhat antisemitic as well.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:41am
  - Local Miller
    
    The US or Israel being involved would be enough to draw the ire of the world to any conflict.
    
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    September 18, 2025 12:00pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  The people you saw interviewed don’t fit the narrative OO. And “journalists” are blind to anything but the narrative.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:54am
Swifty

I find this all very shallow.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/573383/rnz-reid-research-poll-where-the-public-stands-on-capital-gains-tax

In my view, and based on more than a few conversations with my fellow countryfolk over the years, as soon as you ask people who favour capital gains taxes exactly how these new taxes will work you get little more than blank stares.

The Greens in particular, but also Labour and TPM MPs simultaneously claim that it’s just criminal that ‘the rich’ pay a lower overall rate of tax than ‘ordinary folk’ (due to greater proportions of their income being from untaxed capital gains) but at the same time claiming that bringing in a capital gains tax will magically steer investment away from housing and into businesses and enterprise.

How can this happen if business capital gains will be subject to tax Labour new taxation regime? Or are they ruling out business capital gains?

They can’t have it both ways.

The devil really is in the detail with this form of taxation. I challenge New Zealanders whenever someone expresses support for a capital gains tax, to question them on the detail. This applies doubly for MPs.

Exactly how would it work in practice?

I fear and suspect this is another situation like that fairly recent interview with Eru Kapa-Kingi, when asked how would Maori sovereignty work in practice, he replied basically “I don’t know, I’ll leave that for others to work out…”

WTF? This is the guy that is proposing it and he hasn’t a clue as to how it will all work!
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September 18, 2025 9:46am
- Ian Boag
  
  Here we go again. “Envy tax” yadda yadda. “Inflation” yadda yadda. “McMansion sysndrome” yadda yadda.
  
  “Hard to calulate” – Wot? – Capital gain = Sale price – Buy price. Maintenance etc not an issue as has been charged against income. If like the rest of the world, the rate would likely be 15-20%. Sky unlikely to fall in.
  
  We lead the world – not a position we should lightly abandon 🙂
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:56am
  - Swifty
    
    Sometimes I haven’t the slightest clue as to what your points are Ian.
    
    Want to try again?
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:59am
    - sirknz
      
      I think the majority of Ian’s posts translate roughly as “I take the default lefty view on everything because the left is always so good and virtuous about everything and their tax policies will never affect me because they are taking money off the rich people and evil landlords”.
      
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      September 18, 2025 10:19am
      - RoboRob
        
        Actually I think around CGT Ian is very consistant, he really believes in the concept and is very keen on it.
        
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        September 18, 2025 10:29am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Aren’t you any good at the “go figure “ instruction, Swifty?
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:48pm
      - Swifty
        
        Heh.
        
        Clearly I need to work on that Gravel.
        
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        September 18, 2025 2:09pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Question 2
    
    If CGT prevents housing bubbles etc, why is it that NZ and Australia have had very similar house price growth even though AU has CGT? Australias house price rises have even been higher then NZs.
    
    Question 3
    If taxing things works to direct investment towards busineses etc. Why is it the left aren’t proposing removing taxes on they things they do think we should invest in? I dont believe any party on the left is proposing reducing corporate tax rates and removing tax on Kiwisaver / FIF investments at the same time is implementing the CGT. Its almost like its just another tax / source of revenue.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:35am
    - Paulus
      
      Don’t Aussie have Stamp Duty ?
      
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      September 18, 2025 3:04pm
  - wsk12345
    
    What about the $200 k in value add – full insulation, fill new joinery, new decks and landscaping. Capital works. Do I have receipts – no – I did the work a decade ago.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:44am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Doesn’t really matter what you did two decades ago. 0 The input price for a new CGT would be the value on a given day after the tax is introduced – the “V-day” approach that was used in Canada. The other option is the Oz one where the CGT clock starts when you sell it – ie none for you but the clock starts ticking for the person you sold to.
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:34am
      - PurplePen
        
        Happy with the Oz approach.
        
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        September 18, 2025 11:44am
  - Eastlander
    
    [Mod – debate the topics]
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:51am
  - RoboRob
    
    Can you explain more around how maintenance (rates, insurance etc) is not an issue?
    
    Are you suggesting people will be able to subtract all house related expenses from their Gross income before PAYE is calculated, in the same way businesses subtract expesnes from revenue before clalculating profit?
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:42am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Could you [Mod – just debate the topic]Firstly, for a house, what income? Secondly, “like the rest of the world”. You talk like Ardern. As if the rest of the world is right – lol. Thirdly, are unrealised gains going to be taxed? The Greens seem to think so. So who is going to value shares in a business that hasn’t been sold? There are a myriad of combinations and permutations that can hold fish hooks. If you knew anything about capital and its valuation and tax, you would know this.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:46am
    - Ian Boag
      
      In other countries that I know of , all work on realised capital gains. Notwithstanding the Greens’ opinion, an accrual basis is just too difficult. Otherwise it’s not really hard. Sale price minus buy price. Capital improvements (that are not claimed as “maintenance”) are added on to the buy price. If the asset is a business then tax-paid retained earnings effectively increase the “buy” price – as it should be. It’s not real hard. Apparently farms and businesses might be exempt.
      
      We lead the world in a few notable ways. No tax on capital gains. GST applied to expensive drugs not covered by the health system. A brain-dead system where the owners of 800,000 light diesel vehicles buy RUCs and put stickers on the screen so that 30,000 tractors don’t get charged (refundable) excise on diesel. Admittedly Iceland has something a bit similar 🙂
      
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      September 18, 2025 2:46pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        @Ian Boag ….. We lead the world – not a position we should lightly abandon 🙂
        
        The Left:
        
        Nuclear Weapons 1987: “We lead the world. Not like the rest of those sheep”
        
        Capital Gains Tax: “The sheep are correct”
        
        BTW, in CGT nations there have been housing price booms and busts over the last fifty years at least – just like here. And it doesn’t raise that much money while screwing up the markets even further.
        
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        September 18, 2025 6:05pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        while screwing up the markets even further
        
        Sounds serious. Can you elaborate? As you know, my support for CGT has nothing to do with what it might or might not do for house prices. As you have pointed out – it hasn’t in other jurisdictions.
        
        There’s a sort of inconsistency between “it won’t do anything” and “screws up the markets” …. 🙂
        
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        September 18, 2025 6:34pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        There’s a sort of inconsistency between “it won’t do anything” and “screws up the markets” …. 🙂
        
        Oh wait, did I actually say “it won’t do anything”?
        ….
        Oh! No I didn’t.
        
        I said that it’ll screw up markets while not raising any decent amount of revenue for the government. That whole cost/benefits thing.
        
        Have the decency to quote me correctly or our debate on CGT is done. You’re not marking one of your student’s papers now.
        
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        September 18, 2025 7:56pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Apologies. How does it screw up the markets? Leveraged “investment” in rental real estate that won’t be cash flow positive for umpty years still works. Interest deductibility helps. CGT is just a bit of a drag on the return.
        
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        September 18, 2025 8:24pm
- mandk
  
  If Labour, Greens and the Māori Party really wanted to steer investment away from housing and into businesses and enterprise, their policy should be to put CGT on houses only.
  
  But, because they are brainless, they would probably put it on everything apart from housing.
  
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  September 18, 2025 10:00am
  - Swifty
    
    I’ve never once heard that business would exempt – so can only conclude that it will be in.
    
    And if it’s in then it will be an administrative, extraordinarily complex and messy nightmare!
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:16am
    - Ian Boag
      
      administrative, extraordinarily complex and messy nightmare
      
      Other countries seem to manage it … 🙂
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:49am
      - Eastlander
        
        And the Australian property market is even more inflated than ours. Appreciable benefits from the tax, non-existent.
        
        What do you expect it to achieve? What is New Zealand going to be able to do that it can’t do now? A serious answer please, if you can manage it.
        
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        September 18, 2025 12:25pm
      - Swifty
        
        Many countries have capital punishment for blasphemy, should we copy them too, just cause others are doing it?
        
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        September 18, 2025 1:03pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Eastlander
        
        I have no idea about how taxing capital gains might change people’s behaviour or alter the real estate market or influence the price of fish. A CG is income. We tax income. Not a hard concept.
        
        I am impressed by the mental contortions involved in pushing the “CGs are not income” notion. 🙂
        
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        September 18, 2025 3:11pm
      - Eastlander
        
        So you don’t even have an idea what it might do but you want it anyway. Fantastic. And then it’s back to ‘we tax income’ – well we don’t tax this particular type of income, so there.
        
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        September 18, 2025 4:26pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        well we don’t tax this particular type of income, so there.
        
        Can’t argue with anything as rational as that 🙂
        
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        September 18, 2025 6:39pm
      - Ghost
        
        so there.
        
        are you going to hold your breath next and stamp your feet?
        
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        September 18, 2025 7:05pm
    - artemisia
      
      Labour’s CGT proposal was amended to exclude certain businesses where owner sold up to retire. Also amended to exclude the fam bach. Both in response to angry folk. Also a lot of items of value not included – I think the Mrkusich and the Rothko were exempt for example.
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:44pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        To be sensible – a tax should be simple, broad based without many exemptions, and charged at a relatively low rate …. go figure 🙂
        
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        September 18, 2025 7:41pm
  - R
    
    ‘Labour, Greens and Maori really wanted….’ they would encourage their adherents to get educated, get employed and get of the couch. Then all the welfare money wasted on them could be invested in capital employment generating ventures.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:27am
    - PurplePen
      
      That’s true. There’s a vast amount of human capital waste in NZ. It just never seems to improve either.
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:45am
  - RoboRob
    
    The ‘steer investment away from housing’ line from the left is just a ‘nice’ excuse to implement a new tax. They aren’t talking about a tax swap, removing tax elsewhere, they just want more tax.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:28am
    - Ian Boag
      
      It’s income. Income is taxed. Not a difficult concept.
      
      In the rest of the world CGT income is taxed at a concessional rate compared to salaries and interest and stuff. eg the Aussies apply a 50% discount and the Canadian rate on long-term (>1 year) gains is 15%.
      
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      September 18, 2025 11:41am
      - RoboRob
        
        So is inheritance, should we add a tax to that too?
        What about selling cars / stuff on trademe?
        
        If it is just income, why tax it at a lower rate as you suggest?
        
        You didn’t reply to my point that the left are increasing taxes, there is no discussion of taxes dropping in any other area.
        
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        September 18, 2025 11:45am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        No, it is not income Ian. Only in your mind. Even the 2019 Tax Working Group conceded that CGT is a double taxation. The value of property only goes up if there is income generated from it. And income generated from an asset is already taxed under the Income Tax Act.
        “In the rest of the world CGT income is taxed”. That is horseshit. UAE has no CGT for instance. And neither does Switzerland or Singapore. There are many more that only tax capital gains if certain conditions are met.
        One of the more egregious things about CGT is that asset prices can be manipulated by Government policy.
        
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        September 18, 2025 11:56am
      - Eastlander
        
        Income isn’t taxed unless we chose to tax it. Move past this robotic mantra and think about why we do or don’t do things please.
        
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        September 18, 2025 12:27pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @RoboRob @ 11:45AM
        
        If it is just income, why tax it at a lower rate as you suggest?
        
        To take account of the argument of CGT opponents that, otherwise, it is a tax on inflation?
        
        I went over all this on Kiwiblog five or six years ago. Rhetorical questions cannot be answered by us, today.
        
        A CGT is a tax on profit. I buy something for $10,000. Sometime later (usually after at least 12 months) I sell it for $15,000. I pay 15% CGT on the $5,000 profit = $750. Simple, logical, and fair – in my view.
        
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        September 18, 2025 1:08pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @RoboRob
        
        Re inheritance …
        
        The Canadians deem your death to be a transfer, so CGT is charged against the estate before distribution. This is not the same as death duties which are typically charged on the total value of an estate. The Aussies just leave the clock running so that if you inherit something, the eventual CGT when you sell it (if any) is based on the original acquisition price.
        
        There are probably other ways of doing it. Including not charging it at all in estate situations I spose.
        
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        September 18, 2025 3:20pm
    - Eastlander
      
      If promoting investment were actually a concern you’d make all forms of investment expenditure fully tax deductible. But labour hogs deep down think that the government rightfully owns everyone’s property so any sort of lessening of the tax burden is framed as ‘giving money to the rich’.
      
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      September 18, 2025 1:15pm
  - Handyman
    
    Quite right, but you don’t think like a Green…
    “To reduce investment in houses, create a new tax that taxes everything except houses.”
    The Green/socialist strategy is that they tax you until you can’t afford a house.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:50am
- RoboRob
  
  Funny how the media run stories around whether NZ wants a CGT about every 6mths. I wonder why that is? They dont run stories around whether NZ wants tax brackets should be pegged to inflation for example.
  
  It’s almost as if there is an agenda.
  
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  September 18, 2025 10:31am
  - R
    
    The media realizes that the target audience have very short memories; and therefore have to be reminded about the motivated ‘rich pricks’ not paying enough TAX. To support the wished for lifestyle of the unmotivated
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:31am
  - Ian Boag
    
    The indexing one is sort of interesting. ACT used to be pretty full-on for the idea but it seems to have faded over time. Way back when, Cullen was proposing it for a while, but inflation at the time was pretty low. The opposition mocked him for how it didn’t amount to a hill of beans so he canned the idea.
    
    Other than that – AFAIK a deafening silence from both sides. Go figure.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:46am
  - PurplePen
    
    Well, presumably the editor and direct reports get round table, karakia, then take turns in what stories to investigate this week, month, etc. ‘investigate’ in the weakest sense of the word. CGT will be one of a dozen news story buzz words that they all remember and know something about what it is.
    
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    September 18, 2025 11:49am
- Paulus
  
  The answer to most new economic ideas is quite simple answer
  – It all in the detail !
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:06am
- Terry Dalee
  
  How about capital losses? Where do they stand on that?
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:19am
- [email protected]
  
  I’m all for a capital gains tax (except for sale of home) if the tax collected reduces the other taxes being collected by the government. I would want this tax to be “tax neutral”.
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:58am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Ironically, non-income earning assets are the only assets that should be hit by a capital gains tax.
    So homes, holiday homes, art etc.
    
    This is because an income earning asset’s (i.e. business) value is based in its future income which will be taxed in the hands of whoever earns it.
    
    When the IRD did their stupid rich family calculations they literally multiplied the income generated by those families businesses to calculate what they’re worth in case you need evidence of how businesses are valued.
    
    Obviously, rental properties are a strange one because the buyer and seller can be in it for different reasons (i.e. one is a home the other is an investment) and it is also obviously stupid to tax people that haven’t left the market (i.e. sold a house to buy a house).
    
    So, despite what Ian above said about it being simple, it isn’t, not even a little bit. There is also a legitimate argument for claiming amortisation on Goodwill as well obviously (which almost every country in the world with CGT does allow) but our CGT proponents have been dishonestly silent on.
    
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    September 18, 2025 1:14pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      This is because an income earning asset’s (i.e. business) value is based in its future income which will be taxed in the hands of whoever earns it.
      
      So what? I build/buy a business. I sell it. I know how businesses are valued. If there is a gain it is income. A buck is a buck is a buck ….
      
      After I sell it and (hopefully) pocket my gain what the buyer does is irrelevant. He/she/they might do poorly or well. That is between them and the IRD.
      
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      September 18, 2025 4:05pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        If a business sells a good or service to another business it is income in one and an expense in the other. That is how inter business activity works. It’s supposed to have a symmetry to it.
        
        You are arguing for income in one and not an expense in the other which breaks the symmetry that is supposed to exist. I get that you have a very singular and narrowminded view on the subject and I get it, you are going off “I read this online” knowledge. You’re an antivaxxer of the tax debate.
        
        The fact is that our system is not supposed to double tax income. I know you don’t care. You’re all “tax that guy” AND “tax that guy” but that’s a political position not a tax position. It has nothing to do with fairness. Note that yes, there are plenty of countries with CGT but again, that’s a political decision (and most of those countries literally agree with me regarding deductibility of the Goodwill on the other side).
        
        To dumb it down for you: The buyer buys the Goodwill, they are doing so under the belief that they can make the cost of the goodwill back with after tax income in the next couple of years. That income has effectively been shifted to the seller while the tax is being paid by the buyer. The buyer on the other hand is getting the cash now (which is why you are all “he’s got money, I want it”). If you bring in CGT on this, the seller is getting less for their business while the buyer is still in the exact same position. As I said, there’s no symmetry. I know you don’t care but again, that’s a political position, not fairness.
        
        Tax is complex. Using comments like “a buck is a buck is a buck” as if that makes it simple doesn’t, it just makes people treat you like an antivaxxer.
        
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        September 18, 2025 4:36pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        “a buck is a buck is a buck”
        
        Was the bottom line of the Carter Commission who came up with the Canadian CGT in 1972. I was there.
        
        Treating CG’s as income is not a particularly lefty thing.
        
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        September 18, 2025 4:56pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Ian – it’s still a worthless and dishonest political slogan.
        
        Also, as I said, Canada allows for tax deductions on the amortization of Goodwill (so they do care about what happens with the buyer). It’s dishonest of course because it’s over 20 years which obviously breaks the matching principle but again, it’s a political decision.
        
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        September 18, 2025 5:04pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Thanks for dumbing it down for me. I had a read of how the Canadian CGT system got to where it is ..
        https://ctf.ca/EN/EN/Newsletters/Perspectives/2021/3/210304.aspx
        
        Might not be dumb enough for you. Too many big words and realpolitik decisions. I’ll make you a deal though – we could try this back and forth (debate?) without getting personal. You could even impress us by posting over your real name. Just kidding. 🙂 I have to say that I could be impressed if I knew you came from some background where you obviously know more thsn I do.
        
        Anyway – I looked (thanks chatgpt) at how the (chosen at random) UK treats the goodwill thing – taxable to the seller and an intangible capital asset to the buyer. Can be claimed as part of the purchase cost the next time a CGT issue crops up. Seems to be another violation of the “symmetry” thing.
        
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        September 18, 2025 5:32pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Now you piqued my curiosity – so I looked what happens to goodwill CGT-wise in Oz. Looks to be another violation of the symmetry law. 🙁 A “political decision” I suppose like pretty much everything related to tax.
        
        https://chatgpt.com/share/68cb9dd5-21fc-800d-a898-b7274c1e3fc8
        
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        September 18, 2025 5:54pm
  - RoboRob
    
    None of the CGT advocates are proposing that. Its all about additional tax.
    
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    September 18, 2025 1:30pm
  - Paulus
    
    Excluding the home would not make the Tax take profitable, or very large, except for the new Department.
    
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    September 18, 2025 3:08pm
Swifty

Clowns!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/573384/department-of-conservation-takes-down-possum-control-promo-video-after-complaint

How did not one person in DOC or the organisations that assisted them not stop and think about firearm safety and reputational damage before blundering ahead?

Are DOC head office staffed fully with townies who don’t have a clue about such matters?

It’s goddam amateur hour.
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September 18, 2025 9:51am
- greybeard
  
  I disagree. That advert was obviously tongue-in-cheek. Remember the old Crumpy Toyota ads on TV ?
  Someone without a sense of humour complains and the whole system has to be changed – how precious ! What rubbish.
  
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  September 18, 2025 10:18am
  - Swifty
    
    Yeah, fair point, but, as has happened, there have been some quite legitimate firearms concerns raised, and DOC has had to withdraw the ad.
    
    So, taxpayer money down the drain.
    
    My point is, could this have not been foreseen? I argue it could have been, it stands out like dogs balls as something likely to cause uproar in these modern times.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:39am
  - cmm
    
    Firearms people (eg. Deerstalkers) are very sensitive about three things:
    1) Actual firearm safety. Screw around at a Deerstalker rifle range and you will be thrown out.
    2) Compliance with hunting regulations.
    3) Public perception of firearms use.
    
    And rightfully so. There is no undo button on a gun.
    
    Public perception is also important because the uneducated public idea of hunters is a bunch of people blasting away in a dangerous fashion. This perception tends to erode gun rights etc.
    
    So the first people you will see calling out bad firearms use legitimate firearms users. Calling this all a “joke” is not going to work because the general population does not understand the boundary between the “joke” and information.
    
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    September 18, 2025 10:47am
    - greybeard
      
      I think that most people who see a TV ad with an old white woman, sitting on a porch, brandishing a rifle, wearing a fur hat, blowing the living daylights out of a possum in a pohutukawa would actually see it as a joke.
      Everyone knows that possums never go near pohutukawas !
      
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      September 18, 2025 5:24pm
Mod88

I see Willis has pulled a fast one with the Visitor Levy from the Tourists. Yet another example of how out of depth and in over her head she really is. Desperation reeks does it not.
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September 18, 2025 10:05am
- MCōs
  
  And Chinese visitor numbers are well down
  https://x.com/carlworker/status/1968475703827120312?s=61
  
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  September 18, 2025 2:58pm
sirknz

Stevie Wonder could see this from the other side of the moon.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chinese-embassys-statement-on-nz-traveller-points-to-espionage-expert-says/WJVCJ6W32ZAZTHGRWQLMOHMBZI/

Seriously, why do we need an expert to tell us this?
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September 18, 2025 10:20am
- cmm
  
  Everyone spies on everyone else no matter what side they are on, so no point grabbing for the smelling salts over being spied on.
  
  The Mexican drug cartels are allegedly dobbing in some of their own people carrying drugs as decoys. ie. while the cops are busy dealing with a car with 2 kg of coke, a truck carrying 1000kg drives past. The cops get a false sense of security that they are intercepting traffic when they are really being duped.
  
  Perhaps there are elements of that going on here. Possibly the Chinese embassy dobs in some poor sap so that their real assets are protected. NZ SIS gets the false impression the Chinese are helping them and that they are on top of things.
  
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  September 18, 2025 11:50am
RoboRob

Sorry, this post was supposed to be in response to Ian Boags post on CGT.

[Mod – repost and I will delete this when you have]
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September 18, 2025 11:27am
Chuck Bird

I attended a mayoral debate. I questioned my council’s spending money to “save the planet”. They claimed they were forced to do so by central governments of both parties.

If that is true, National is reducing income tax by causing our rates to go up.
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September 18, 2025 11:29am
- Foxfour
  
  It is .
  John Key stood on the stage in Paris Climate conference in 2016 and announced NZ would be 30% less carbon by 2030.
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/pm-addresses-paris-climate-change-conference
  
  Climate treaty was then signed by Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett – well known Climate Mavens.
  In 2022 the Zero Carbon Bill implementing the rules was approved UNANIMOUSLY by every single National MP along side Labour and Greens.
  
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  September 18, 2025 1:09pm
AitchW

Ardern’s book “Mum’s Busy Work”.
Is she so very unaware that she doesn’t know that “busy work” is a pointless task given to a no hoper to keep him or her busy?
Is her editor equally ignorant?
And her publisher?
Or do they just hold her in contempt?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/busy_work
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September 18, 2025 11:37am
- PurplePen
  
  What’s work that isn’t busy then. Is there such a thing.
  
  Oh .. I’ve just realised it might be working from home.
  
  7 1
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  September 18, 2025 11:52am
Conservatarian

The late night “comedy” show of “comedian” Jimmy Kimmel has just been canned.

Kimmel has this week been claiming definitively that the assassin of Charlie Kirk is MAGA and not a far leftist. In fact, the same type of far leftist that Kimmel himself is handsomely paid to rile up and to egg on towards murder.

Kimmel has about 75% of the audience of Stephen Colbert, whose show was recently canned. Colbet’s show was losing USD 40m per year on revenue of USD 60m.
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September 18, 2025 12:08pm
- Foxfour
  
  Pressure from the Head of FCC
  “We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take actions on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”
  Apparently the 1st amendment preventing government censorship of speech is now null and void.
  Same in Texas where the Governor Abbott has asked for students who ‘mispoke’ on Kirk to be expelled from universities.
  Yet the same governor in 2019 introduced new laws to affirm freedom of speech on campus.
  Cant be far now until liberal students will have to wear ‘blue stars’ on clothing
  
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  September 18, 2025 1:04pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    You missed a bit from that quote. I’ll finish it for you:
    
    “They have a license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest”
    
    The public funding ABC receives comes with very strict rules and lying about public interest stories to create a dishonest narrative apparently breaks quite a few of them.
    
    Nice selective editing of quotes though.
    
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    September 18, 2025 2:18pm
    - Foxfour
      
      Sorry you dont understand the 1st Amendment. The govt cant decide what is lies or not.
      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
      Free speech is what it sounds like, not speech you approve of. For goodness sake your interpretation is comical.
      
      Kimmel wasnt even a ‘news’ program. Its an opinion show always has been
      FCC doesnt even regulate whats public interest or not, any ‘standards’ were tossed out in the 1970s.
      
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      September 18, 2025 3:46pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘The govt cant decide what is lies or not.’
        They’re not. The private company and its customers have- and they are right.
        Kimmel lied.
        
        Cool dissembling and cherry picking though
        
        3 0
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        September 18, 2025 6:05pm
      - Foxfour
        
        The FCC head said they were ‘setting a standard’ and the stations could do it ‘the easy way or the hard way’. Thats when a local station network said they were pulling the show.
        The alternative claims you offer dont match the facts
        
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        September 19, 2025 5:55am
    - virtualmark
      
      Please define “the public interest”.
      
      Bonus points if you could also please explain how it interacts with the 1st Amendment.
      
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      September 18, 2025 3:47pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        [Mod – debate the topic, not the person]
        
        0 0
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        September 18, 2025 7:04pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Yawn…. too late for the clam of “muh principles” now:
    
    Disney isn’t a “state actor,” and a couple of years ago a government agency literally put my wife on a list of people whose opinions needed suppressing.
    
    The Biden WH pressured social networks to banish dissenting COVID opinions.
    
    After January 6 an entire social network was pulled offline.
    
    If you can show me, with links, that you objected to all that then I’ll listen to your (checks notes) “principled objections.”
    
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    September 18, 2025 9:03pm
- RichardX
  
  Did free speech advocacy die with Charlie Kirk?
  
  2 5
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  September 18, 2025 2:17pm
  - Ghost
    
    It is concerning. People might not like what is said, but people have the right to say it. It’s concerning that Vance wanted people to report anyone who celebrated Kirk’s death. What law are they breaking? People might not like it but I would expect even Kirk himself would be outraged at the attempt to use his death to limit free speech.
    
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    September 18, 2025 2:20pm
    - Foxfour
      
      good points.
      I understand 1920s Germany had left wing newspapers offices attacked by right wing militias who didnt approve of their published opinions.
      
      https://www.jta.org/archive/hitler-wins-libel-suit-due-to-lack-of-evidence
      
      1 2
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      September 18, 2025 3:50pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    I don’t think it’s a good move. As much as the outlets in question are little more than propaganda mills for the DNC and far left and frequently lie their arses off about their ideological opponents and stories/’narratives’ – serving as uncritical conduits for ‘deep state’ agendas and press releases from ‘Media Matters daily talking points and spin emails’ that are frequently at odds with public good while representing it as news.
    
    But Fox is similar propagandising on the right. Sauce for the goose etc. News media other than fox are in dire financial poo anyway, with plummeting veiwership that make their closure likely inevitable unless they are operated as a charity or on deep-pocket donors. Colbert was shut down recently, perhaps this is just nail in coffin for Kimmel.
    
    I think what should definitely be stamped out is bias in censorship and shadow-banning on social media. Such measures should be recorded in detail to allow for analysis of censorship and bias.
    
    1 1
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    September 18, 2025 3:52pm
  - cmm
    
    There are two sides to the coin:
    Freedom of speech – can someone say something without ending up in prison.
    
    Freedom of association – can someone choose to not associate with someone who’s views they do not like.
    
    If a company or someone that represents it says something I do not like then I don’t have to buy their products.
    
    Media companies depend on advertising. They are generally careful to say things that don’t offend viewers (and thus offend their advertisers). Media companies can fire someone they don’t like.
    
    There is still freedom of speech because nobody ends up in prison, just consequences.
    
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    September 18, 2025 4:30pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    
    2 1
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    September 18, 2025 7:05pm
    - Foxfour
      
      “President Trump received thunderous applause during his second inaugural address in January when he vowed to “immediately stop all government censorship and bring back free speech to America.”
      
      Live up to Own rules eh…
      
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      September 19, 2025 7:04am
- MCōs
  
  That’s not quite what he said
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360827879/what-jimmy-kimmel-said-about-charlie-kirk-got-him-taken-air
  
  2 3
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  September 18, 2025 2:53pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    From your link
    He said; ‘as anything other than one of them’
    Which is a lie
    The killer wasnt a ‘Maga republican’
    You cant lie on Network television (lol)
    He is free to say his lies but there are consequences.
    Besides I think they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of him. His ratings were really low.
    And as one critic said;
    “Jimmy Kimmel isn’t funny”
    -Charlie Kirk
    
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    September 18, 2025 5:58pm
    - virtualmark
      
      “You can’t lie on network television”.
      
      Where is the law that says that? Either in the US or, if you prefer, here in NZ.
      
      AFAIK you are free to lie on television, but you may then open yourself up to defamation proceedings (see Fox vs Dominion Voting Systems), and you may lose audience if they think you’re no longer credible. But AFAIK there is no law expressly forbidding lying or untruths in the media.
      
      Personally I think a truth-in-news law would be a good thing, but (a) I don’t believe any such law exists and (b) I think it would be a Pandora’s Box in terms of who would decide what were lies and what were truths.
      
      2 1
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      September 18, 2025 7:36pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        AFAIK you are free to lie on television, but you may then open yourself up to defamation proceedings (see Fox vs Dominion Voting Systems)
        
        Looks like Kimmel’s employers decided not to test that.
        
        Maybe he should have said that Trump wears Depends because he developed a drug habit on The Apprentice. That’s the Gods Honest truth, ammirite?
        
        1 1
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        September 18, 2025 9:18pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Tom, you never fail to disappoint.
        
        The Kimmel situation is the classic mob-like “Nice tv network you have there, be a shame if something was to happen to it”. The exact quote from Brendan Carr was ““We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take actions on Kimmel, or there’s going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”
        
        Where that was particularly relevant is the FCC is being asked to approve a merger of two big station groups (Nexstar and Tegna) and Nexstar has about 20 local ABC stations. So Nexstar could clearly see what the “additional work for the FCC” meant.
        
        But hey, free speech ammirite? And small government too?
        
        Oh, and Trump’s drug habit goes back years and years before The Apprentice. At least back to the Studio 54 days of the 1970s.
        
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        September 18, 2025 9:55pm
      - Foxfour
        
        “AFAIK you are free to lie on television, but you may then open yourself up to defamation proceedings (see Fox vs Dominion Voting Systems)”
        
        Do you even know what Kimmel said:
        He inferred the “gunmans politics” were those of Maga kids
        There was no denigration of Kirk- who cant sue for obvious reasons
        Is the gunman going to sue?
        
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        September 19, 2025 7:02am
      - Ian Wright
        
        Actually there are quite a few laws. To start with, the broadcast networks have a licence from the federal government to use part of the RF spectrum (Communications Act of 1934), and part of requirement is “Applicants must satisfy the Commission that they are legally, technically and financially qualified and that operation of the proposed station would be in the public interest.”
        That “public interest” clause is where they get into trouble by lying. Also, there have been amendments, one of which says that they have to give equal time to both parties. No-one has enforced this since Reagan, I think, but the law is still there. On Free Speech, it’s not absolute. It is not legal (a Federal crime) to incite violence. It’s not legal to defame people. There are other exceptions. And I haven’t seen the law, but it’s commonly said that “you can’t shout “Fire” in a crowded theatre unless there really is a fire.”
        
        0 0
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        September 19, 2025 12:00pm
      - Ian Wright
        
        Also, apparently there is an FCC regulation, 47 c.f.r. sec. 73.1217, which prohibits those with broadcast licences from knowingly putting out false information about a criminal act.
        
        0 0
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        September 19, 2025 2:51pm
      - Ghost
        
        Doesn’t include satire or political jokes. It’s obvious that is what jimmy was doing
        
        0 1
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        September 19, 2025 4:11pm
Ghost

The suppression continues, not that it matters, I’d suspect most already know the details now

Key details in the Tom Phillips case cannot be reported yet as media lawyers continue to fight for an injunction to be lifted.

The matter has returned to the High Court at Wellington this morning for parties to argue over whether an injunction should be in place.

Article
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September 18, 2025 12:52pm
- MCōs
  
  I had a look at Reddit or somewhere and came across some pretty wild gossip
  Who’s to know what is true or just malicious?
  
  3 4
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  September 18, 2025 1:58pm
  - Ghost
    
    The problem is going to be the international media. some took their articles down, I notice they have grown tired and are writing about it again, not directly stating it yet but hinting of what’s to come. I expect within a week or two international media will just decide they aren’t protecting this any more and will report it
    
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    September 18, 2025 6:35pm
- Paulus
  
  Well done Linda Clark you have your photo in the papers, and you have got so far the publicity you want.
  
  2 5
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  September 18, 2025 3:11pm
Swifty

Honestly, this is the most terror-inducing, genuinely horrifying piece from a New Zealand MP in a very long time:

https://x.com/suitandtie9999/status/1968387477087076489?s=46

Tamatha Paul has been thinking…..
9 0
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September 18, 2025 1:12pm
- cmm
  
  Numbers are boring
  The economy is boring
  
  FFS: Those are the most important part of an MP’s function.
  
  Professing that numbers are boring should be instant disqualification from any government position – including being an MP.
  
  9 1
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  September 18, 2025 3:05pm
- artemisia
  
  Or drinking.
  
  5 0
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  September 18, 2025 3:51pm
  - Swifty
    
    These Green people running amok with their make-work schemes coupled with their financial illiteracy and business naivety will be the ruination of us all.
    
    This is where all that extra taxation they want will be pissed away – in ventures, schemes and projects the private sector wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.
    
    5 0
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    September 18, 2025 4:22pm
- Eastlander
  
  When she was elected to Wellington City Council she didn’t know what council rates were.
  
  2 1
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  September 18, 2025 4:08pm
  - artemisia
    
    Tamatha Paul actually knocked on my door when she first stood for Wellington council. Credit for that, as most unusual for a candidate to pound the pavement. Supporters, yes occasionally.
    
    However, she was woefully ill prepared then, some good slogans but no substance. And so it came to pass.
    
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    September 18, 2025 5:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t have a B.Comm. or any economics qualifications either….
  but I do know that if no-one wants to buy your product (because it’s crap or because it costs too much), then it’s never going to be sustainable pouring money into a bottomless pit.
  
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  September 18, 2025 5:04pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Trying reach Gen Z, or some such. Probably succeeding.
  
  What a moron
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:53pm
Jethrod

It appears that the Greens most junior attendee in Parliament is having a go at asking questions in his swansong and preceding his “valedictory” speech later this afternoon. (massive eyeroll).
5 1
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September 18, 2025 2:24pm
Chuck Bird

The is what Luxon expects of farmers.

Bryce McKenzie On Injecting Cows With Chemicals To Cut Methane For Climate Goals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9XLGodJn24
1 6
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September 18, 2025 2:29pm
- MCōs
  
  Injecting any living mammal with anything for whatever reason is an abomination, promotes autism, weakens the heart . . .
  Bloke told me that while he was begging for money outside the dunny at the dog dosing strip at Dunsandel
  
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  September 18, 2025 3:30pm
Jethrod

Gee, it really is the day for invisible people to be asking questions today, Maipi-Clarke and Damien O’CONNOR being a couple, also McAnulty.
4 1
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September 18, 2025 2:33pm
cmm

Will the last grown up out of the room please turn off the lights.

Seymour thinks it is awesome that Pharmac may start funding weight loss drugs.

Hmmm…

Weight loss drugs are a cheat code. They do not have a long term benefit unless the patient starts eating properly…. in which case you can get the benefits without the drug, but it takes a bit longer.

If you use weight loss drugs as a quick fix then you will just put the weight back on as soon as you stop taking the drugs.

There are many cheat codes that people try such as debt consolidation and bankruptcy. They never work unless people first fix the underlying problem behaviour.

So what are we likely to see? People using drugs to slim down for a wedding or to fit into their summer bikini, then podge out again soon after.

Personally I think we’re just getting further and further from personal responsibility and accountability – something I thought Act stood for.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/wellbeing/360827704/taxpayer-funded-weight-loss-drugs-would-be-awesome-says-pharmac-minister-david-seymour
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September 18, 2025 2:59pm
- Foxfour
  
  I feel the same.
  Firstly its not a weight loss drug, its an appetite suppressant drug You lose weight from eating less. .duh try other appetite suppressants or meal replacement liquid mixes first
  
  I can understand a smaller number who are morbidly obese getting for major medical reasons.
  But just being plus size as shown on Paddy Gower, no way
  
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  September 18, 2025 4:53pm
- Ghost
  
  hopefully they can roll it out to the target audience with some specials. Get 5 free Wegovy injections with each kfc bucket.
  
  this could help reduce the strain that obesity is putting on the health sector. But the real change needs to start in primary school, getting kids active, teaching healthy eating.
  
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  September 18, 2025 5:15pm
cmm

I see Judith Collins splattered over Linked In, pimping the government’s new one-stop-shop App that gives you a portal to government services.

“The app is being inspired by international examples but designed with a distinctly New Zealand feel.”

I suspect that means lots of ferns and Maori crap that cost us a few million extra.

https://www.digital.govt.nz/digital-government/key-areas-of-work/government-app-programme
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September 18, 2025 3:21pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360826226/street-gang-leader-and-members-found-guilty-murdering-head-hunters-member
NZ would be better-off if these ferals were removed permanently. How many hundreds of people will spend their own short lives looking after them ? Feeding, clothing, providing medical and dental help, giving legal advice, pandering to their every “need” and “right” ? And if they do eventually get released they just do it all again !
6 1
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September 18, 2025 4:12pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360828565/former-finance-minister-sir-roger-douglas-calls-finance-minister-nicola-willis-resign
Roger Douglas !
Christ, is he still alive ?
3 0
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September 18, 2025 5:27pm
Scooter

At the face of it I thought it was bad that this guy only got 8 months in jail and will soon be released due to time served while in bail. But the Herald, actually doing some investigating, outlines his previous convictions including rape of a 10yr old. So with his previous criminality and now he uses a gun just for a dog barking at him, imagine if someone really pisses him off. Unbelievable.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/daniel-danny-livingstone-who-shot-brownie-the-dog-at-a-hamilton-supermarket-is-a-child-rapist/2FQVS2KHLRGJLPPVCGSBOTLAMI/
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September 18, 2025 5:51pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He also has a previous conviction for cruelty to animals.
  
  He had a lengthy list of previous convictions for mostly theft, burglary and traffic offences but received a two-month jail term for assaulting a female and had a conviction for cruelty to animals.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/courtroom-erupts-in-fury-as-teen-rapist-gets-8-years/Y6W2E2JZNQJEHACI2VT5DRKSAI/
  
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  September 18, 2025 6:34pm
Jethrod

So Ben Doyle departs after a singularly uninspiring speech saying poor me at every second sentence. Pleased to see him depart, at least he gets a flight home.
No contribution in the 10 months of attending.
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September 18, 2025 6:04pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  He’s an inadequate human being. But don’t blame him for being a Green MP. He didn’t select himself for number whatever on the Party List.
  
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  September 18, 2025 8:56pm
- Swifty
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/09/18/hostile-and-toxic-benjamin-doyle-blasts-parliament-in-valedictory-speech/
  
  For those interested.
  
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  September 18, 2025 9:01pm
  - Ghost
    
    I’d rather use a hamas pager than watch that.
    
    3 3
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    September 18, 2025 9:16pm

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