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September 22, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 September 2025

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General Debate

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Scott

To get an idea of the actual situation the Israelis face here is what has happened just this past week:

“Gaza – Lilach Shoval
Four soldiers from the IDF Officers School were killed Thursday in Gaza after the Humvee they were traveling in struck an explosive device in Rafah. Another soldier is in serious condition. (Israel Hayom)”

“Two Israeli soldiers were killed near Allenby Crossing with Jordan on Thursday by a Jordanian driving a humanitarian aid truck headed for Gaza. Upon arrival, he opened fire at soldiers at the crossing with a handgun, then got out of the truck and stabbed the two soldiers repeatedly until security guards killed him.”

[Mod – just include a paragraph, then provide a link back to where you have copied it from]
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September 22, 2025 8:02am
- Wandering Star
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Nobody doubts that Israeli soldiers are being killed. Any occupying army should anticipate this. I think the main issue the world has with the IDF is the targeted mass killing of civilians and the deliberate decimation of Gazan infrastructure so that, should any Gazans escape the Israelis’ wrath, Gaza will be uninhabitable regardless.
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:33am
  - David George
    
    Wandering: IDF “targeted mass killing of civilians”
    That would be the same IDF that warned civilians to evacuate lest they be harmed?
    Perhaps you think you can just come on here and spew your hate and lies and not get called on it.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:16am
  - pdm
    
    WS – surely you mean the civilians killed due to Hamas terrorists hiding among them in hospitals and schools in particular.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:26am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Pdm
      That argument is a big problem for people who may not know the politics and the motivations of the main antagonists, or who don’t care about their motivations.
      
      I would say that the backlash against the Israeli Government (as distinct from Israeli Jewish people ) is because the subtext seems to be that innocent people, including children, are expendable in order to kill a terrorist who may be in their vicinity.
      
      If a gang member took their family hostage in NZ , would it be acceptable for the cops to bomb their house?
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:55am
      - Scott
        
        Imalways – the IDF appears to be doing everything they can to minimise casualties. It is war, not civil society regarding gangs so that’s not an appropriate analogy.
        
        Let me put it another way. Hamas is doing everything it can to embed itself among civilians and maximise civilian casualties. If they are allowed to do this then Israel can never win. Is that OK? Of course not.
        
        Hamas has lots of tunnels. Civilians could shelter there. But they are not allowed to, the tunnels are open only for Hamas.
        
        Hamas are evil fanatics. Unless we understand that we have no idea of the situation.
        
        The IDF are trying to minimise casualties but they will occur. That’s inevitable in urban warfare. The IDF are trying to minimise civilian casualties, Hamas are happy to maximise them.
        
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        September 22, 2025 11:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Let me put it another way. Hamas is doing everything it can to embed itself among civilians and maximise civilian casualties”
        
        That doesn’t sound right. How do you know?
        Are you filling in the blanks to create a credible scenario?
        
        Why would terrorists want to destroy their support base?
        
        You clearly don’t understand guerrilla warfare.
        
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        September 22, 2025 12:53pm
      - Scott
        
        Imalways – the terrorists are quite happy for civilians to die, they are quite happy for them to suffer, so it can be filmed and gain support for their cause from the West. So Israel will be cast as the villain, they will be pressured to ceasefire and Hamas can then claim victory.
        Hamas has built bases directly below hospitals, they deny the sanctuary of the tunnels to civilians.
        Unless you are prepared to understand their murderous ideology you won’t comprehend what is going on.
        
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        September 22, 2025 2:29pm
      - KH
        
        Scott. What planet are you on?
        The Israeli Government are not trying to to minimise civilian casualities.
        They are trying to terrorise them. At the same time blow Gaza to rubble with the hope that 2 million will go elsewhere. 70,000 dead so far.
        There are regular commentators here who think this a good approach.
        
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        September 22, 2025 5:14pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      Its quite simple, really: if the IDF “know” that Hamas are using civilians as human shields (and this is their claim), but they go ahead and kill said civilians regardless, then that’s a war crime. End of story.
      
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      September 22, 2025 1:22pm
  - Scott
    
    There is not targeted mass killing of civilians by the IDF. That is what Hamas does.
    Israel is good.
    Hamas is bad.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:53am
  - Paulus
    
    And we are going to support the corrupt UN in supporting a new Palestine which will of course include Gaza led by Hamas.
    New Zealand – vote that way at your peril.
    
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    September 22, 2025 3:05pm
    - kiwimike
      
      The UN should be designated an enemy combatant, they taught 3 generation of Kids to hate and want to kill Jews.
      
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      September 22, 2025 5:27pm
- cmm
  
  I am generally on the Israeli side on this and am also pro soldiers and their welfare (no matter what side they are on).
  
  But soldiers in war are expendable. That is their job. Belligerents in conflict are legitimate targets – no matter what side they are on.
  
  That does not just apply to soldiers in the conflict areas, but also those in the supply chains etc.
  
  As I understand it NZ currently has a company (~100 soldiers) deployed in Europe providing logistical and training support to the Ukraine. They are legitimate targets.
  
  There are factories building war materials (eg. Rheinmetall in Germany and South Africa building artillery shells). They are legitimate targets.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:04am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    People who attack a nation and are acting under the authority of another nation, are engaging in war. Without the authority of a nation backing them up, they are terrorists and none of their actions are legitimate.
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:46am
    - cmm
      
      I get what you are saying, but the soldiers are generally sent out to meet the threat (be that a military threat or a terror threat). They are deliberately put in harm’s way and become legitimate targets.
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:50am
      - kowtow
        
        The soldiers become targets .
        
        “Legitimate targets ” , definitely not.
        
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        September 22, 2025 10:29am
    - R
      
      Unfortunately for the free world, Hamas terrorists have the support of some Arab states; even though they don’t publicly acknowledge it, in either quarter!
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:51am
      - kowtow
        
        They have now been rewarded by the idiot PMs of UK , Canada and Oz.The very ones bitching loudest about Trump and alliances , yet where is their loyalty or indeed common sense.
        
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        September 22, 2025 10:31am
      - kiwimike
        
        Yes R you are correct.
        Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia would need to be destroyed to completely remove the threat to Israel and it’s populace.
        
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        September 22, 2025 5:29pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      You can clearly see why the Israelis are so determined to prevent Palestinian statehood then, can’t you. If there was a Palestinian state, Israel could no longer dismiss them as illegitimate “terrorists” which is what (they think) gives them license to act as they please.
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:54am
      - Cassandra
        
        This has been going on for a long time, Wondering. Israel’s main concern has always been a Palestinian state next door which is opposed to Israel’s existence. All Arafat had to do was recognise Israel and renounce violence. He and the PLO refused to do that.
        
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        September 22, 2025 10:32am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Sorry WS but “Israel could no longer dismiss them as illegitimate “terrorists”” is utter nonsense. A designated terrorist organisation does not become a non-terrorist organisation by dint of being the elected Government of any nation state. So Hamas, the democratically elected Government of Gaza, who started a war with Israel (and are losing badly), will still be a terrorist organisation until they are removed from various countries list of designated terrorist organisations. Currently, Hamas are considered terrorists by Australia, Canada, Ecuador, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Paraguay, the United Kingdom, the United States, and all nations in the European Union.
        
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        September 22, 2025 5:08pm
    - Foxfour
      
      “Without the authority of a nation backing them up, they are terrorists and none of their actions are legitimate.”
      
      That was exactly the situation in British Palestine when jewish terrorist militias ran rampant against the british army and administration and Arabs
      Some of those terrorist leaders became leading politicians like Begin. Ben Gurion had a foot in both camps like Gerry Adams
      
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      September 22, 2025 1:55pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yeah they stopped doing that stuff about 80 years ago.
        
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        September 22, 2025 9:25pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Governments recognising Palestine are doing what politicians do when they dont have a solution. They have to be seen to be doing something anything no matter how dumb.
  Recognising Palestine wont stop Hamas continuing to seek to destroy Israel and kill every Jew.
  IMHO the solution is
  1. Assist Israel to destory Hamas.
  2. The UN to then establish a peace keeping force.
  3. Rebuild the infrastructure. There are plenty of funds looking for home. This would create economic activity not only in Gaza but in the countries where the funds come from. Want evidence. Think Germany Japan and the rest of the West after WW2.
  4. Then when Gaza is in a governable state assist the people to elect a Government that will benefit all of them.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:10am
  - Dr John
    
    Can someone please tell me where ‘Palestine’ will be located?
    Do our politicians know?
    Surrounding Arab countries don’t want to accommodate this ‘state’.
    Israel is too small to cut off a chunk of its nation to give the ‘Palestinians’ a home.
    Think: Israel is about the size of Canterbury province with a population almost twice that of New Zealand.
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:53am
    - kowtow
      
      Or who will be the govt.
      
      Undemocratic , islamist , corrupt , unaccountable, misogynist and dedicated to violence.( and that’s just the “moderates”)
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:33am
  - cmm
    
    Nobody has a solution, and NZ certainly does not need to even have an opinion on this.
    
    Sure, UK or USA or such might have policies on Israel, but really NZ having a policy is just pointless. How can we influence the situation in any way?
    
    Any statements made are purely for local consumption.
    
    That said, Luxon is still doing his favourite thing: dithering and trying not to offend anyone.
    
    If it was me, the first thing I would say is that any talk of recognition of Palestine is not on the table while there are hostages held in Gaza. End of discussion.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:15am
    - Observant Octagenarian
      
      Last paragraph is the crunch point.
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:35am
      - Lenice
        
        First two paragraphs hit the nail on the head.
        
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        September 22, 2025 12:52pm
  - kiwimike
    
    Last
    I down ticked you because the Muslim’s in all their countries and at the UN, won’t stop no matter what do gooders set up and do.
    
    This is war and one must prevail or the other.
    Neither side will give up.
    The Jews are home and have no where to go.
    The Muslims consider Israel’s existance to be an affront to Islam…..
    
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    September 22, 2025 5:36pm
- kiwimike
  
  Thanks for that Scott
  I appreciate reading your precis as haven’t been online today.
  
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  September 22, 2025 5:24pm
artemisia

An interesting post from eugyppius about victims and victimisers (and Charlie Kirk).

The political left has cultivated an entire civic religion premised upon identifying and defending an ever growing number of victimised groups. They have arranged their precious victims according to hierarchical categories (the “progressive stack”), while delimiting those who under no circumstances may ever be victims because they are victimisers. Victims now and forever require succour and defence; victimisers must be driven out, marginalised and suppressed – for the safety of their victims and the good of society as a whole.

I think it is Ra Henare, a regular poster here, who talks about ‘poor me’ – self identified victims. There’s a lot of it about in New Zealand, almost always accompanied by ‘give us more OPM’. #8 wire and personal responsibility rather less so these days.

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/television-pastor-likens-germans
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September 22, 2025 8:09am
- Yvette
  
  Artemisia – The political left has cultivated an entire civic religion premised upon identifying and defending an ever growing number of victimised groups.
  
  And the corollary to this surley is “… I think this is very important, because no one—no one—changes the world by accepting the role of a victim”
  
  Which in New Zealand raises the dichotomy of the Left lifting Maori up in exceptionalism, but at the same time constantly revealing they are at the lowest end of almost every negative social measurement.
  And when the Left then force feed the first point, the second aspect here causes some to choke a bit.
  
  I now need a big cup of coffee and to take the morning’s medications
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:43am
- cmm
  
  “#8 wire and personal responsibility rather less so these days.”
  
  Replaced by filling out form number 8 at the WINZ office.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:05am
Nukuleka

Could someone explain to me just whereabouts is this Palestinian State that we are being pushed by our state media to recognize. What are its borders, who are its citizens, what is its government and who is its leader? Are we being encouraged to recognize something that actually exists or is it some hologram or aspiration that exists only in the imagination? Or is it, as Chloe and her acolytes might have it, already a specific nation running ‘from the river to the sea’?

Could someone in the know please enlighten me. I don’t see how ‘recognising’ something somehow magically makes ‘Palestine’ a reality.
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September 22, 2025 8:14am
- Nikola Donatello
  
  I assume that it is Gaza and the West Bank. What about Jerusalem? Who knows?
  
  Why would Isreal evacuate a half million citizens by force from the West Bank to facilitate the establishment of a terrorist state next to Jerusalem??
  
  Does anyone know?
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:25am
  - Im Right
    
    Yes Nukuleka….
    Islam has motivated it’s followers to march and disrupt any non Muslim country they are in (Europe/US/Aussie and NZ), they have captured the left wing of all these countries to be in support of them (even although Islam is diametrically opposite of the values the left hold dear and sacrosanct (LGBT, women’s rights etc etc).
    Muslims killing Muslims (Yemen by the tens of thousands), China imprisoning Muslims by the million…gets not even a second glance from Islam, but because it’s the Jews and Israel in this instance, ALL of the Muslim world is ‘outraged’.
    As long as the world is against Israel then then Islam will work out the details later….don’t get caught up in the actual specifics, as there are none.
    Get the idea??
    IT’S THE JEWEWWWS.
    
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    September 22, 2025 8:34am
    - David George
      
      “they have captured the left wing”
      The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Their enemy is the West. Us.
      The overthrow of the Shah in Iran was a joint effort by the Marxists and the Islamists. Once the dust had settled the Islamists butchered the Marxists – the ultimate useful idiots.
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:23am
      - sirknz
        
        There is a video doing the rounds, supposedly the interviewee is the son of someone high up in Hamas.
        
        He states quite plainly that Muslims will use the left to get their way because the left have no principles, you can’t do this to the conservatives or those on the right because they tend to have very strong principles.
        
        A polite and more direct way of saying that the left are useful idiots.
        
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        September 22, 2025 4:24pm
- Clyde
  
  A mythical place inhabited by a bunch of people determined to fight anyone else.
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:26am
  - pdm
    
    `A mythical place inhabited by a bunch of people determined to fight anyone else.’
    
    Not much different to Aotearoa then?
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:29am
- Cassandra
  
  Regarding the UK, Australia etc recognition of a Palestine state, Hamas announced that it was the reward for its 7 October action. The obvious corollary is that there’ll be similar rewards for the next 7 October. Rewarding Hamas (and let’s face it – Hamas is just a name, its aims are those of the majority of Arabs) is daft. One can only hope that Winston Peters will not follow suit.
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:30am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “One can only hope that Winston Peters will not follow suit.”
    
    Not likely.
    
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    September 22, 2025 8:42am
    - pdm
      
      Chuk according to PM Luxon it is to be a Cabinet decision so Peters will have to abide by Cabinet rules.
      
      Given ACT says it is opposed every indication is that Cabinet is in a stalemate situation or will the `weight’ of the National vote carry the day.
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:33am
      - PurplePen
        
        Doesn’t Cabinet operate under a majority rules and the rest must follow. Presumably ACT, even if they’re opposed, will not be a majority.
        
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        September 22, 2025 1:56pm
  - AitchW
    
    Starmer on the news this morning proudly telling the world that Hamas will not be involved in the government of the newly minted state of Palestine.
    Is he stupid or just lying to us?
    Hamas will be donkey deep, maybe not using the name Hamas, but they’ll be there.
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:09am
    - cmm
      
      Hamas came out of the Muslim Brotherhood which is fundamentally underpinned by Pan-Islamism.
      
      No matter whether Hamas is involved or not, Pan-Islamism will be so there will be no effective change.
      
      Pan-Islamism is fundamentally opposed to the existence of Israel.
      
      The only real question here is whether Starmer is stupid or lying. My money goes on him lying because I can’t believe he is that stupid.
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:55am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I think he is that stupid.
        
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        September 22, 2025 10:41am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        … Stupid or lying…
        
        Can be both
        
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        September 22, 2025 1:05pm
      - AitchW
        
        There is, of course, a third option: that he is both lying AND stupid, I’m inclined to pick that one.
        
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        September 22, 2025 1:21pm
    - kowtow
      
      Starmer is as thick as pig shit .
      On the one hand ‘recognising a state and on the other he dictates to a ‘sovereign’ people who their govt will be !
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:37am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I don’t think he’s thick. However like many supporting far left nutbaggery he uses his brain power to twist reality to conform to lefty narratives. I think it’s more about elitist snobbery and envy.
        
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        September 22, 2025 9:29pm
    - mogg
      
      Starmer is the puppet saying what the Hard Left of his Labour Party tell him to say. We are talking about a man who says that 99% of women don’t have a penis, but that means he thinks that 1% of women do have a penis.
      
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      September 22, 2025 11:08am
    - R
      
      I don’t think that Starmer is very bright. After all he is a socialist at heart.
      
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      September 22, 2025 12:12pm
    - Paulus
      
      Simple and Just Stoopid
      UK we are told has 76 Sharia Courts in operation overriding everything else from thousands of years Law.
      Eh ! what about a Treaty backdated to 1840 for us ?
      
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      September 22, 2025 3:14pm
  - Philview
    
    There was a report in the UK media yesterday that international legal experts are discussing the possibility of the new Palestinian State seeking 2 trillion pounds in damages from the British Government for broken promises 1917 to 1948. It is easy to imagine where this will lead.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:31am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Treaty claims all round!
      
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      September 22, 2025 1:05pm
- R
  
  Jordan is the recognised Palestinian state. Ever since the post WW2 agreement. The PLA were the party that lost a subsequent election, and consequently became a terrorist organization. Recent history of local wars, Egypt etc explains the present impass.
  
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  September 22, 2025 8:53am
- rockape
  
  When we recognise Palestine and regrettably we will, will NZ recognise passports issued by Hamas?
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:02am
  - cmm
    
    UN, with our funding, will no doubt help print them.
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:06am
  - Im Right
    
    Agree rockape
    It’s inevitable Peters will recognise Palestine.
    I doubt whether he actually feels that they deserve to be recognised, but a lot of our trading partners ARE recognising Palestine.
    I guess it’s a case of swallowing a dead rat and recognising Palestine, in aid of the economy, and not some heart felt actual agreement with Palestine as a state.
    It’s a tricky position, but NZ economy comes first I believe.
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:24am
    - Philview
      
      My support has been for Israel through this while at the same time I believe the likes of Mossad are capbable of unpleasant things. They have probably led the intelligence against terror networks and I wouldn’t be surprised if they start to withdraw their assistance to countries like the UK.
      
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      September 22, 2025 10:36am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      “It’s a tricky position, but NZ economy comes first I believe.”
      
      Have you considered increased tariffs if Trump is pissed off?
      
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      September 22, 2025 12:29pm
    - PurplePen
      
      A bit like swallowing the dead rat of net zero. NZ economy and maximising trade opportunities will always come first.
      
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      September 22, 2025 1:58pm
- Southern Raider
  
  And that is the problem
  
  There is two geographically disconnected areas run by two separate ideological Islamic groups. Both have managed to claim they are democratic but been continuously in power for 2 decades or more.
  
  There is also the fundamental issue of Jerusalem which Israel will never give up again under any circumstances.
  
  This is doomed to fail for a very long list of simple reasons but left wing politicians and the UN apparently know better
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:13am
  - R
    
    The corrupt UN will make sure that there is no peace settlement for Israel, Norwell there be any repercussions toward the terrorist support nations
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:54am
    - kiwimike
      
      the UN has aided and abetted the Muslims on this for decades, they are not honest brokers.
      they ran the schools where they indoctrinated 3 generations into Jew Hate.
      
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      September 22, 2025 5:46pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Look up the San Remo Resolution of 1920. It shows the boundaries of the “British Mandate of Palestine”. Roughly 120,000 sq km of land. The Mandate was ratified by the League of Nations (now the UN).
  Subsequently, the Israelis have several times, agreed to various land splits, including where most of the Israeli land would have been the Negev Desert (which makes up about 60% of present day Israel). Each land split offered has been rejected by the Arabs. Well, other than the formation of Jordan, which was carved out of the British Mandate of Palestine. People might be interested to know that other than a few Diplomats, there are no Jews in Jordan. Jews were expelled in 1948 when Israel became its own state.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:44am
  - kowtow
    
    And each peace deal rejected resulting in “intifada” and thousands of deaths.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:39am
  - kiwimike
    
    Jewish mandate of Palenstine, not British, it was for the Jews…….
    1922.
    
    and REM it wasn’t just Jews out of Jordan but 800-900,000 Jews expelled or forced out of all Muslim Lands.
    
    Golda Meir was the Minister and had people living in tents right into the 1950’s as there were so many.
    
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    September 22, 2025 5:48pm
- Yvette
  
  It appears New Zealand’s stance is, as of now: Hamas, the entire organization, is designated a terrorist entity (Feb 2024).
  
  New Zealand supports a two-state solution — Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security (and flying flaming kites over the border to set crops and homes ablaze).
  
  New Zealand has not yet formally recognized Palestine as a sovereign state.
  It engages with the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank (not Hamas) in diplomatic and aid contexts.
  New Zealand supports the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) and other humanitarian initiatives in the region.
  New Zealand seems likely to follow any moves by Australia and the United States.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:50am
  - Philview
    
    Until next year when we potentially get an extreme Left government who sit at parliament everyday wearing the clothing of Hamas.
    
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    September 22, 2025 10:38am
- David Garrett
  
  Nuku: Those are all excellent questions – and none of them are answered in the piece I have just read on Stuff noting Starmer’s recognition of this totally undefined “Palestinian State”.
  
  Incidentally, that piece is quite a useful read for those here – and there are many – who don’t think there was ever a place called “Palestine”.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:21am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, but it was a region – not a country.
    
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    September 22, 2025 11:49am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    The Romans called the then area of Judea, Palestina after the Bar Kokhba revolt (second Jewish uprising) of 132–136 BC. The name was given as an insult to the Jews because it referred to the Jewish (ancient and long gone) mortal enemies, the Philistines.
    So no, the area has never been a country called Palestine, but the area has been referred to Palestine at least during Roman times, and subsequently by the British with their mandate. The non-jews who lived in Roman Judea|Palestinae were not referred to as Palestinian, but either Saracens or just plain old Arabs. The Arabs and the Jews got along just fine until Muhammad came along.
    
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    September 22, 2025 1:12pm
    - kiwimike
      
      Golda Meir’s passport was a Palestine Passport before the State of Israel.
      
      NB: as when the British referred to “Palestinians” they meant Jews…
      Read From Time Immemorial by Joan Rivers (from the British documents).
      
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      September 22, 2025 5:54pm
  - Paulus
    
    Was the so called area not called Trans Jordan ?
    
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    September 22, 2025 3:18pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      When the British Mandate was created (same time as a French Mandate), modern day Jordan (more correctly, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan) was part of that Mandate. After the French defeated King Faisal (later King of Iraq) and the Hashemite Kingdom of Syria at the battle of Maysalun in 1920, Syrian nationalists and various tribes joined forces with Prince Abdullah, Faisals brother to try and recover Damascus from the French. After meeting with Churchill, Abdullah agreed not to attack Britains ally, the French. He did however move into what is modern day Jordan. The British at the time, had no particular interest in the area as it had no particular population and those that were there were incredibly poor plus the Brits thought it ungovernable. So they essentially let Abdullah have it to avoid a confrontation with the French.
      
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      September 22, 2025 3:52pm
mandk

Retiring leader of the CTU complaining about not being able to get meetings with the PM: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/leading-trade-unionist-richard-wagstaff-says-key-met-with-him-regularly-but-luxon-has-refused/GC4ZTGYVGFCILLYXABSRESWCUI/

Well, Mr Wagstaff, you shouldn’t have launched a personal attack on him before the last election.
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September 22, 2025 8:38am
- pdm
  
  Luxon appears to be getting one thing right!!!
  
  That should help his preferred PM rating.
  
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  September 22, 2025 10:36am
- imalwaysright
  
  Luxon should have met with him as that is part of his job.
  
  Luxon won’t be interviewed on the Platform, who would have a similar audience to KB, but he has regular interviews with the cool kid chewing gum radio stations.
  
  But the point is that a leader must be available to be called to account by those who may not agree with him.
  
  He is very Ardernist in that respect.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:16am
  - Cassandra
    
    Not PM’s job. It’s the Work Minister’s. Upston or van Velden.
    
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    September 22, 2025 11:55am
In Vino Veritas

From the August 9 Economist. It turns out that the number of fraudulent scientific papers has sky rocketed over the last 15 years (and is continuing to rise). Scientists from Northwestern University in Chicago have concluded that “The scientific enterprise in its current form would be destroyed”. They looked at papers published in PLOS ONE, a well regarded journal that id’s which of its 18k editors is responsible for each paper. Most are academics. It turns out that 45 editors have facilitated the acceptance of most of the retracted or flagged articles (3k of 276k articles). More than half of those editors had produced retracted papers themselves. A good number of the papers are full of made up experiments and bogus data often with the help of AI models. The authorship is sold to academics who want to boost their publication numbers.
Interesting when one recalls that we are supposed to follow the science.
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September 22, 2025 9:27am
malc

Interesting that the Daily Telegraph is reporting a survey this morning showing that 90% of Brits are opposed to the recognition of Palestine. Illustrates the danger of kowtowing to noisy minorities, but I’m guessing Winston/Luxton won’t have the spine.
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September 22, 2025 9:36am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Luxton is an Act Party back bencher. What influence he has with Winnie is questionable.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:22am
  - pdm
    
    TN – excuse me but that is a strange comment.
    
    Had you said Luxon is a Labour backbencher then you might have been on target.
    
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    September 22, 2025 12:45pm
    - Ghost
      
      No, re-read the comment
      
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      September 22, 2025 12:46pm
- mogg
  
  Or latest polling showing Labour 16%, Tories 16%, with Reform on 34%. Farage promises to deport hundreds of thousands of immigrants saving £234 Billion.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:25am
  - Jethrod
    
    Farage’s sentiments are in the exactly the right place. However the chances of now getting more than a couple of 100 to leave UK are unfortunately not viable.
    
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    September 22, 2025 2:09pm
  - Im Right
    
    Sounds great Mogg, but as Jethrod mentions…will not happen.
    Remember the one eyed and a hook for a hand Islamist who the UK tried to deport, they eventually did…but took years and umpteen court cases for it to happen.
    How do you think deporting tens (hundreds?) of thousands will work out?
    The courts will be so clogged up the justice system will grind to a halt.
    I wish it was as easy as rounding up the muslim illegals/prisoners after their sentence complete/rioters etc
    But there are too many lefty lawyers who will fight tooth and nail for anyone being deported.
    And remember…..one of the first rules of any illegal, get someone woman pregnant as soon as possible, the kid becomes an anchor baby as born in the UK.
    Farage may mean what he says (and what the voters want to hear), but in reality….. UNFORTUNATELY not gonna happen.
    
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    September 22, 2025 7:17pm
RoboRob

Minister Watts electricity / energy plans are supposed to be released this quater (ending 30th September). However he has a history of missing targets as the initial report was due no later then the start of Winter 2025, yet is still to be released.

So, rather then complaining I will lay out what I would do. This is on top of whatever regulatory tweaks will be announced.

A. Immediately announce the retirement of Huntly. This is to be replaced by 1000 GW Nuclear plant from Westinghouse (est cost ~2b NZD). This will increase max output from huntly by ~400GW.

B. Since Huntly will take some years to ‘transition’. Annouce the procurment of two 300GW SMRs from Westinghouse (est cost $1.5b NZD) . One to be placed near Auckland and one near Christchurch. This to be delivered ASAP, preferrably before next winter (yes I know that heroic).

C. Pass enabling legislation to immediately permit all these new plants. Dont muck around.

D. Project management by Brookfield Renewables, owners of Westinghouse and vastly experianced international project managers and power plant operators.

E. Funding to be some combination of, Geneis Energy (eventual owners), Transpower redirecting funds from planned network upgrade, Brookfield Renewables.

Results…
1. Plenty of base line power, stablising NZs electricity supply and ending price rises.

2. No need to upgrade much of the National grid as energy provided near where it is required.

3. Gas freed up for business and personal use.

4. No more gas / coal generation. This likely means NZ immediately achieves our Paris accord climate goals with no need to pay fines or further involve farmers in the emissions trading scheme. May be able to end the scheme entirely.

5. Protection from droughts. Sine nuclear is 24/7 power hydro would be tapped much less.

6. Westinghouse is US based. We would end out trade surplus with the US and we could negotiate with Trump to end tarrifs if we buy our gear fromt the US. A win win for both sides.

7. Political win for National. Not only would they be seen to be doing something, they actually would be doing something. They could, ligitimately claim to be a transformational government.

8. Brookfield have massive experience in builing large scale generation. They regularly fund the build and then run the operation of plants for some years before selling them to local operators. NZ has no money so this would be a great way to fund required works, if Genersis / Transpower couldn’t stump up the costs.

9. The Green party and Labour would likely skewer themselves arguing against carbon free environmentaly sound energy generation.

10. Economic stimulous during the build out. Safety of supply and potentially lower pricing.

11. Uranium supply from the friendly Australians.

NZ has spent $1.5b on a universal bus ticketing system. $4b on a project that has actual tangible results would be a much better use of funds. Nuclear is scary for some NZers but a simple information project could easily calm earthquake adn environmental fears.

This is an un researched plan and their are likely dozens of alternatives, such as going with Canadians or the French.
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September 22, 2025 9:40am
- Hard Cheese
  
  I’m not sure where you’re getting two 300MW Westinghouse SMR’s for $1.5B NZD from. The UK government seems to be having trouble getting Westinghouse to commit to building at $3.3B NZD each, and Canada’s first 300MW SMR is forecast to cost $7.5B NZD. I don’t think it’s a bad idea, but I don’t know if the costs stack up.
  
  https://www.energycentral.com/energy-biz/post/uk-smr-competition-may-unravel-over-budget-r5LHtEeiH7ZnKhA
  
  https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/articles/what-is-the-budget-for-canadas-first-smr-project
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:17am
  - RoboRob
    
    https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/us-firm-unveils-game-changing-small-nuclear-reactor
    
    Est $1b USD, so I should have said ~3b NZD for 2
    
    However the linked article says teh AP1000 (big boy) is expected to cost 6.8b USD so my 4B NZD was way out. Probably about $10bNZD, which isn’t too bad considering we were going to pay $10b for Labours battery project (pumped lake).
    
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    September 22, 2025 1:19pm
- imalwaysright
  
  “However he has a history of missing targets as the initial report was due no later then the start of Winter 2025, yet is still to be released.”
  
  Ironically, if I treated the payment of my power account in that manner, I would have been disconnected by now.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:19am
- Skippytony
  
  Totally agree but the chances of it actually happening are zero, unless you are willing to drive the delivery trucks over an army of greenies. And, god help us, if the Government changes they would rather spend three years blaming the “Coalition of Chaos” as they like to call it on the inevitable power disruptions.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:38am
  - RoboRob
    
    Totally agree but the chances of it actually happening are zero, unless you are willing to drive the delivery trucks over an army of greenies
    
    I am personally willing to do so 🙂
    Fighting climate change is critical.
    
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    September 22, 2025 1:19pm
    - kiwimike
      
      there is no Climate Change it is all a con.
      Patrick Moore told us years ago -)
      
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      September 22, 2025 6:11pm
  - Paulus
    
    Of course they will continue to blame the three Years of Coalition Governmet as they want deep Marxism to flourish as is currenty underway.
    
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    September 22, 2025 3:27pm
- kowtow
  
  Retire Huntly ?
  
  We need to build more coal generating capacity.
  
  Cheap , local , proven , plentiful .
  
  It is that simple.
  
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  September 22, 2025 1:02pm
  - Jethrod
    
    Yes there is plenty of coal around Huntly.
    
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    September 22, 2025 2:11pm
Handyman

The coming irony is that an electric train will be stranded in the $6 billion rail tunnel because of a power cut and now we have no money to build reliable generation.
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September 22, 2025 10:11am
- imalwaysright
  
  Handy,
  Rest assured that, when that scenario eventuates, you will still be able to have your personal data downloaded to a NZ data centre/AI library near you that ironically will get interrupted electricity supply…. unlike your train.
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:27am
Stu2

A nuclear plant near the great southern fault? Looking at the damage on the plains 15 years ago it doesn’t appear to be a great site for a reactor, and the fault is thought of as overdue in terms of long run averages.

Northland is the area least quake prone, not sure if it has a reliable and sufficient source of coolant
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September 22, 2025 10:22am
Ghost

A shooting at a wedding in the USA.

The suspect, identified as 23-year-old Hunter Nadeau, was arrested and charged with one count of second-degree murder. Witnesses heard the man scream “The children are safe, free Palestine!” as he started shooting, killing one person and wounding two others before he was hit in the head with a chair by a female party member and ran away with his head bleeding.

Article
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September 22, 2025 10:29am
Philview

Just flicking through some headlines and I saw a Stuff headline “Charlie Kirk Funeral Opens a Window to the Maga World”. What a weird headline. I would say the current Republican movement has been transparent over the years. I can imagine having a beer with JD Vance would be fairly easy conversation compared to having a soy latte with any of the NZ Green MPs.
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September 22, 2025 10:58am
- graham
  
  Par for the course with Stuff and most MSM these days I’d say.
  
  Our completely unbiased, neutral press just love to put their slant on everything and attempt to influence the way we should think.
  
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  September 22, 2025 2:06pm
Philview

Did I dream it or did the US announce at the weekend they are going to take Bagram Airbase back and by force if necessary.
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September 22, 2025 11:52am
- Ghost
  
  If Afghanistan doesn’t give Bagram Airbase back to those that built it, the United States of America, BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!! President DJT
  
  Truth social
  
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  September 22, 2025 11:58am
  - Eastlander
    
    How are they going to give it back to the Soviet Union?
    
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    September 22, 2025 1:58pm
- rangitoto
  
  Trump giveth and Trump taketh away: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf
  
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  September 22, 2025 12:06pm
- Wandering Star
  
  Why does the US need a base in Afghanistan? I know why they want one, but why do they need one?
  
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  September 22, 2025 1:29pm
waikatosinger

I am very strongly opposed to our government “recognising” a state of palestine. For one thing it is a fiction. Palestine is not a state by any reasonable definition of the word. To recognise as a nation something that is not a nation in ambiguous territory is a very belligerent act. Little countries like ours should be staying away from such things.

We should only recognise nations that actually meet the definition of a nations. At minimum they should:
1. Have a legitimate government that
2. Unambiguously claims and controls territory
3. Within clear and undisputed borders.

Taiwan is a lot closer to meeting this definition than Palestine.
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September 22, 2025 11:57am
- Wandering Star
  
  “To recognise as a nation something that is not a nation in ambiguous territory is a very belligerent act.”
  
  On the same logic, you must disagree with recognising Israel too, then? But of course you don’t, you just affirm or deny the same proposition based only on whether or not doing so advances your prefered group.
  
  What do you mean by “not recognising as a nation something that is not a nation”? In large part, to be a nation in the first place is to be commonly recognised as such by other nations. Accordingly, Palestine will be a nation simply by international recognition, which is why Israel repudiate the idea so much, and are trying to bully other nations into refraining.
  
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  September 22, 2025 1:34pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    Palestine:
    1. Has no legitimate government. The people who claim to speak for their nonexistent government were dubiously chosen and have no legitimacy.
    2. Makes claims to but does not control ANY territory.
    3. Does not have ANY clear and undisputed borders.
    
    The borders in this case are not just disputed, they are nonexistent and completely fictional. It fails the test of nationhood miserably on all counts.
    
    Taiwan:
    1. Has a democratically elected legitimate government
    2. Clearly controls the Island of Taiwan
    3. Has quite clear borders.
    
    The only criteria it fails is that its borders are disputed by China which lays claim to the whole thing. This is apparently enough to stop us from recognising them.
    
    A nation doesn’t need to have completely clear borders for us to recognise them. We recognise both China and India although they have an unresolved border dispute. But to be a nation there has to be at least some land that you actually and unambiguously control, even if there is a border dispute or two at the fringes.
    
    It would be absurd to recognise Palestine and not Taiwan.
    
    The left wing governments in the UK, Australia and Canada are being completely ridiculous about this. Their silly declaration will not somehow magic a state of Palestine into being. Since at the moment we have a reasonably sensible government we should avoid the left wing lunacy and be the adults in the room.
    
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    September 22, 2025 4:09pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Thank goodness we don’t have a left wing activist government at the moment. Jacinda would have already had us recognising Palestinian state, cos the feelz would have made it right.
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:38pm
rouppe

Angelina Jolie is lamenting the loss of free speech.

American actor Angelina Jolie says she no longer recognises her country, voicing concern over threats to free expression while presenting her latest film at Spain’s San Sebastián film festival.

Her comments come as worries grow over free speech in the United States, after President Donald Trump’s crackdown on critical media and the recent suspension of late-night host Jimmy Kimmel’s show over comments on the killing of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk.

It amazes me the lack of self reflection by the Left.

It is the Left that introduced cancel culture. It is the Left that caused people to be cut off their social media accounts, or fired from their jobs, or lost their businesses.

Part of me thinks “don’t like it up ’em, do they”, but an escalating cycle from both sides isn’t healthy either.

Jimmy Kimmel told flat out lies. Much like Sam Stubbs did. They should be held to account and at least shown to be liars.

But (the royal) we can’t keep ending careers either.
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September 22, 2025 12:27pm
- Raphael
  
  While there is a legitimate argument that Kimmel’s show should not have been axed because of his outright lies*, the fact that the left is more outraged at this than the murder of a moderate conservative voice who wanted to have discussions is disturbing.
  
  *I think it should have been axed because he is an unfunny hack whose ratings have been on a steady decline.
  
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  September 22, 2025 2:05pm
- AitchW
  
  I’m tired of the media breathlessly reporting the utterances of celebrities as if their ruminations are somehow more valid than those of us who work for a living.
  If anything they live in a hermetically sealed bubble remote from the real world.
  
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  September 22, 2025 4:39pm
- kiwimike
  
  yes we can.
  until there’s none of them left…
  
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  September 22, 2025 6:16pm
Chuck Bird

I heard Charlie Kirk’s widow say she forgives his killer. I wonder if she wants the death penalty.
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September 22, 2025 12:37pm
- AitchW
  
  She might forgive him, however she can’t exempt him from suffering the consequences of his actions.
  
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  September 22, 2025 3:01pm
Maggie's ex partner

I’ve just been on the blower to No. 10, and it turns out that, in an amazing boost for Middle Eastern beef exports, Kier Starmer is actually recognising Palestinian Steak, not State, after all
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September 22, 2025 12:39pm
- kowtow
  
  How’s maggie?
  
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  September 22, 2025 12:56pm
  - Jethrod
    
    It’s her ex!
    
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    September 22, 2025 2:13pm
  - Ghost
    
    Random stranger that likely doesn’t even know if Maggie is a she or a he.
    
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    September 22, 2025 4:00pm
- mogg
  
  Bring back Maggie Pie!
  
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  September 22, 2025 2:32pm
  - lifesgood
    
    No,please don’t!
    
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    September 22, 2025 3:08pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Why not?
      
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      September 22, 2025 5:09pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  🤣
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:41pm
westernScientist

Lol, if only the government had been captured by the New Zealand Initiative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gVwpE1K4k4
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September 22, 2025 12:43pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yes what a ship show of an interview. Very frustrating to listen to. I really wish Sean would get it into his head that interrupting pretty much everything so nobody can ever finish what they wanted to say is bloody annoying to listen to.
  
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  September 22, 2025 10:11pm
Swifty

For the last few weeks I’ve seen on ‘X’ footage of the most fearful beatings of men lying on the ground, tied with their hands behind their backs – and severely beaten with lengths of wood, in some cases clearly breaking/snapping their legs in the process.

Today I’ve seen summary executions of blindfolded and kneeling men who are kicked face first into the ground and then shot in the backs by masked men telling “Allahu Akbar”.

The accompanying texts claim that these are all Hamas reprisals against fellow Gazans for either attempting to distribute food outside of Hamas control or, in the latter example, for working with the Israelis in some unknown manner.

Elsewhere on ‘X’ I see New Zealanders calling for our government ‘to be on the right side of history’ by recognising Palestine as a state, and in the absence of any conditions I assume with Hamas part of government.

I’m sorry, I just cannot find the wisdom in this. I won’t repeat all the counter-arguments but I fear all this will do is further empower Hamas and condemn Gazans and Israelis to decades of more violence, terrorism and reprisal for absolutely no gain.

This is all a recipe for permanent war and I currently see no wins coming from Palestinian state recognition whatsoever.
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September 22, 2025 1:25pm
- rouppe
  
  Send links to the head of news for several outlets, as well as to the Foreign Affairs Minister.
  
  Highly unlikely any of the former will act on it, but Winston might.
  
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  September 22, 2025 3:52pm
- Swifty
  
  A still from the footage I mention, not graphic, and courtesy of Sky News Oz.
  
  https://x.com/skynewsaust/status/1969940096410689629?s=46
  
  And we are rewarding these guys with statehood?
  
  I see too senior Hamas spokes people praising Starmer today and his announcement that he supports Palestinian statehood – and the spokesperson also said “this is our reward for Oct 7.”
  
  Of Starmer or anyone else thinks this move will deradicalise Hamas, defang them or help ‘bring parties to the table’ then I think that at best this is wishful thinking.
  
  At worst, it’s playing into the hands of terrorists, rewarding genocidal behaviour and will be contributing to countless future deaths on all sides.
  
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  September 22, 2025 5:27pm
- kiwimike
  
  Sorry, It already is a permanent war, just half the arseholes in the World don’t see it yet.
  
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  September 22, 2025 6:19pm
Ghost

The Trump administration is expected to unveil new efforts exploring how one medication may be linked to autism and another one can treat it, according to four people with knowledge of the plans who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the announcement was not yet public.

Article

Will be interesting to see the announcement tomorrow
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September 22, 2025 2:11pm
Swifty

This scares me.

“It called for a national food strategy that upheld Te Tiriti o Waitangi and prioritised health and wellbeing ahead of economic growth.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/573752/more-than-quarter-of-kids-struggling-for-food-study-finds

I think it entirely feasible that before long Labour, the Greens or TPM will be calling for the nationalising of aspects of our existing food production system (or for the establishment of KiwiKai – a state-owned parallel system) and then soon after it becoming policy.

Instead of boosting family incomes through job proliferation and productivity-led growth, they will put that in the ‘too hard basket’ and go down the state seizure route instead.

While doing so they will rail against capitalism and greedy supermarkets and producers etc, and say they are forced to take these actions to fulfill their obligations under the treaty (active protection), preserve Kiwis’ wellbeing, to ensure the safety of our tamariki and to preserve their mana etc.

This will then open the gates to billions of dollars of extra cost annually to taxpayers for foodstuffs and groceries etc that currently produced for little or no cost to taxpayers.

Also, I wouldn’t put it past them to insist Fonterra etc provide a portion of their annual production to local markets at a fixed and agreed price, less than what they could sell it for overseas, and label them filthy capitalists, uncaring of our kids or even traitorous if they raise any objection.

I can see this coming…..
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September 22, 2025 2:12pm
- Taieri
  
  From the report:
  
  “Prior to 1860, Māori had sophisticated and adaptive
  food economies. Archaeological evidence shows
  extensive cultivation areas with complex irrigation
  systems, terraced gardens and storage facilities.
  Māori grew a variety of crops through extensive
  maara kai (food gardens)—some 8000 hectares in
  Auckland alone—and operated more than 50 flour
  mills around the country.”
  
  https://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/TSA-Ending-food-insecurity-report-Sept-2025.pdf
  
  8000 hectares of food gardens converts to 80 km square. A big garden indeed and just in Auckland alone…
  
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  September 22, 2025 3:26pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And all with those colonial imports – wheat (and spuds and baccy)
    
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    September 22, 2025 4:57pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    The clue to the validity of these claims is ‘Prior to 1860’.
    Lots of immigrants started coming before that (including our family in 1839) and introduced different crops and techniques.
    Try having a look at ‘Prior to 1835’ and see how they were doing.
    These people are shameless with their deception- all to get money of course.
    
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    September 22, 2025 5:54pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      50 flour mills? Yeah right.
      
      Was this 50 villages with women pounding grains????
      
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      September 22, 2025 9:44pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Stretching the truth much?
    
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    September 22, 2025 9:45pm
Jethrod

So what is Winnie going to do:-
A) tick up to RECOGNIZE
B) tick down NOT RECOGNIZE
2 3
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September 22, 2025 2:16pm
Raphael

Charlie Kirk was a moderate conservative. Going into things he has actually said (not the out of context soundbites), there is very little I would disagree with him on (maybe a few things about the US, but I have no problem with an American being patriotic).

The fact that the Lunatic Left will gleefully celebrate his murder means that they would celebrate mine as well. The fact that they think he “deserved it” for his beliefs, which are largely the same as mine, means that they believe that I, too, deserve to die.

Yes 1 man killed Charlie. But the fact that thousands celebrated it and said it was a good thing is chilling.

“When discourse ends, violence begins.” – Charlie Kirk
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September 22, 2025 2:18pm
- cmm
  
  One might have pulled the trigger, but the whole leftie movement killed him.
  
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  September 22, 2025 5:15pm
- kiwimike
  
  It’s the same thing in Gaza, over 70% of the Muslims in Gaza support killing of Jews and actions like Oct 7th….
  
  Madness all over the World, Lawlessness & …..
  
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  September 22, 2025 6:23pm
Swifty

It will take a lot to convince me that providing routes to residency for baristas, sandwich jockeys, wait staff etc is a good idea while we have hundreds of thousands of unemployed or underemployed New Zealanders.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/360831284/wellington-cafe-says-pathway-residency-visas-hospitality-workers-needed

After having see the blatant and at times wholesale abuse of our immigration system in recent years I think this will only add to it.

Great for the employers concerned but nothing but more pressure on our health, transport and housing and more downward pressure on wages.

If anything, I’d like to see more encouragement for employers to hire New Zealanders. We’ve just got to get our folk off the couch and into regular work so that they develop the skills and behaviours to stand them in good stead for life.
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September 22, 2025 2:34pm
- mandk
  
  How are we going to get our folk off the couch? It’s obviously too easy to live on the dole, especially with a bit off cash-in-hand work, or a bit of thievery or drug dealing.
  
  I suggest the only answer is to give no benefit money to anyone less than 50 who is physically able to work and has no care responsibilities. They should be required to move for work, if there is no work available where they live.
  
  The point is that allowing people to live on the dole does no one any favours; not the unemployed person him/herself, not their communities, not the country.
  
  Problem is, Labour would never follow this sort of approach. The party wants the bludgers’ vote, just like it wants the crim vote.
  
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  September 22, 2025 4:30pm
  - cmm
    
    I think you have sort of answered your own question. Make the couch less comfy.
    
    Welfare should be a safety net – not a hammock. Falling into a safety net is a bit like experiencing a crash with a seatbelt on. You won’t die. You probably won’t break bones, but you end up with a bunch of bruises, maybe need a few stitches and it doesn’t feel too great.
    
    But the NZ “safety net” is far too comfortable. For many people it is a good deal to lie back and relax with an umbrella drink – waiting for retirement when you can switch over to a well-earned Super having contributed $0. No, paying GST out of the dole really is not contribution.
    
    That said, does anyone want to employ a surly dole bludger who really does not want to be there? Do you really want that person making you coffee and adding mystery body fluids?
    
    As I understand it, some decades ago there were “work programmes” with entities such the Forestry Board and such to get the idle youth into work planting pine seedlings etc. It turns out that pine seedlings do not grow well when they are planted upside down or have their roots deliberately snapped off by resentful scrotes.
    
    And don’t just blame Labour. Where is the evidence that Luxon and Willis would do anything majorly different?
    
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    September 22, 2025 5:02pm
  - cmm
    
    “no care responsibilities.”
    
    Oops! I just got preggy!
    
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    September 22, 2025 5:03pm
    - mandk
      
      That would be tricky for Shane Jones’ nephs.
      
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      September 22, 2025 8:00pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  In my time employing people there are two types of employees:
  A. Those with a great work ethic, reliable and punctual. Proud to do a good days work.
  B. Those that know they can take 10 days sick leave and 3 days bereavement leave. So they take it all every year, seems odd how many relatives they have that die. Happily take leave without pay, not interested in overtime etc When they are at work they find ways to do as little as possible.
  
  It is not hard to group on demographics who are more likely to be an A or a B employee. So don’t be surprised that As are wanted and Bs aren’t. Bs need to be told they can have unemployment etc for maximum of 3 years, then it will no longer be available. Employers taking on long term unemployed should be paid the first 12 months income for their generosity of spirit. Otherwise they aren’t worth the effort.
  
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  September 22, 2025 9:51pm
cmm

Greenies falling over like it’s a Mortein advertisement on TV!

Apparently it’s a toxic workplace. Whooda thunked that! Lesbians have the worst divorce and domestic violence stats and that’s just the start…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/green-party-chief-of-staff-resigns-citing-health-wellbeing-and-whanau/WBTG4W4ZW5HW5HYQZRKTAAY6EI/
7 1
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September 22, 2025 5:14pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  Another one bites the dust.
  
  Clearly the Greens are grossly dysfunctional, and bereft of leadership under Chloe and Marama. Somehow they continue to coast around 10% in the polls. How is this possible?!
  
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  September 22, 2025 5:35pm
- AitchW
  
  Isn’t resigning to “pay more attention to your health and spend time with the family” not simply code for jumping before you’re pushed?
  I cannot imagine that a workplace with people like the assorted (predominantly female) Green MPs who love to scream and yell at people, and Doyle would be a pleasant place to be.
  
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  September 22, 2025 6:05pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Plan B for Tory, when she loses the Maori Ward vote.
  
  Let’s hope they forgive her for spurning them when previously running as an independent.
  
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  September 22, 2025 7:17pm
NZer In Exile

Meanwhile in the insane mess formerly known as The UK:

UK cops show up at an elderly cancer patient’s home to try to get her to apologize for an unspecified Facebook post that allegedly “upset someone”.

https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1968419871269511561
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September 22, 2025 8:43pm

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