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October 9, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 October 2025

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General Debate

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Cassandra

Debbie Ngarewa Parker: “I think we have to remind ourselves what happened 75 years ago when Palestinian land was taken, when houses were destroyed, when people were displaced, and their self determination, their mana motuhake was denied.”

Actually 77 years ago the UN approved the borders of Israel and Palestine. Israel was promptly invaded by an enormous Arab army and Palestine was annexed by Jordan.

Not a lot of mana motuhake for the Jews then. Mind you, two thousand years ago, when the Jews were in Israel, the Maoris were in Taiwan. It could have been a peaceful transition but the Arabs rejected that. All that has followed stems from that.
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October 9, 2025 8:03am
- Wandering Star
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  With their common leveraging of a sense of intense victimhood, obsession with supposed past wrongs done by other groups irrespective of the facts, and their tendency towards a remarkably narcissistic ethnic chauvinism, Zionist Jews and Maori sovereignty activists are actually quite natural allies in principle.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:11am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Sure thing, Wandering! So the Holocaust and the October 7 massacres were ‘supposed past wrongs’ were they? What a pillock you are.
    
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    October 9, 2025 8:37am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Except the Jews do have documented history on their side to prove Millenia of persecution.
    
    An example is conspiracy theories of running the worlds banks comes from a large and successful amount of Jewish financiers, but misses the subtly of why they were in these careers. Jews were banned from owning land and working in trades in a large number of countries so they turned to the jobs Christians and Muslims couldn’t or wouldn’t do. One of these as an example was money leading. The conspiracy is a causation of forced circumstance. It of course didn’t stop Kings and other nobles conveniently murdering Jews so they didn’t need to repay their debts.
    
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    October 9, 2025 10:03am
    - alphabeatrium
      
      To extent on that, the historical association between Jews and money lending was because of the sin of usury — impossible for Christians to lend money, but not borrow it. The Jews were therefore useful for European Christians to access capital, but it came with the “evil money lender” trope, at a time when money lending at even nominal interest was seen as intrinsically evil.
      
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      October 9, 2025 12:17pm
  - David Garrett
    
    WS: You just make a complete fool of yourself with comments such as that…A double tick for Nuku’s.
    
    That said, I do believe Israel – or to be more accurate Israeli governments – think they can get away with anything because of what happened 80 years ago. That apopylictic catastrophe can and should never be forgotten – but it is not a blank cheque for all time.
    
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    October 9, 2025 10:17am
    - rouppe
      
      In order to even the “grammar score”…
      
      Did you mean apoplectic, or apocalyptic? 🙂
      
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      October 9, 2025 10:34am
      - greybeard
        
        Prophylactic ?
        
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        October 9, 2025 11:06am
      - David Garrett
        
        rouppe: You have got me…I shouldn’t be commenting on here when I have pressing legal work to do up here n the Kingdom, where it is most pleasant 25C out.
        
        (Of course I meant apocalyptic)
        
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        October 9, 2025 11:43am
    - Southern Raider
      
      I don’t think what happened 80 years ago is their rationale eg people feeling sorry for them.
      
      Never Again has morphed into the realisation Israel can’t really rely on anyone else and so needs to do what they need to do for Israel’s sole protection.
      
      They have been through 3 major wars were they were massively outnumbered and attacked from all sides and the West did nothing. They pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and for 18 years the UN (apart from funnelling in billions of money with no checks and balances) did nothing to action Israel’s grave concerns about Hamas’s intent and even watched as UN schools educated children on how to hate and kills Jews.
      
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      October 9, 2025 10:55am
      - KH
        
        Heard of the settler movement Southern?
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:12pm
    - kiwimike
      
      There YOU show your bias David.
      They are in a war for survival, yet again.
      But you know that.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:28am
      - David Garrett
        
        Kiwi: assuming you are addressing me…the war in Gaza is by no means a “war for survival”. If it had extended, the exchange of hostilities with Iran may well have become one.
        
        I am very much in two minds about Gaza – I think the point may well be nigh when what the Israelis are doing there is no longer justified – but what happened on 7 October 2023 sure as hell wasn’t.
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:01pm
    - Cassandra
      
      DG: it’s not what happened 80 years ago, it’s what has been going on for over 80 years. I can understand how some Israelis have ended up where they are after all those years of constant threat. I’m surprised that there are still people like Yoav Gallant, possible the next PM, who still seek a two state solution. If the Arabs agree to peace now then there’s every chance it might all settle down. Of course Hamas and Isis will still exist but it’s possible they can be controlled.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:50am
      - KH
        
        The way to control Hamas is to cease the extermination of Palestinians.
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:14pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Sort of agree with you re a blank cheque David. But it appears that everyone else has a blank cheque to go after the Jewish people for all time.
      We can start with a little history on that blank cheque.
      733 BC, Jews were removed from parts of Israel by the King of the Neo-Assyrian Empire after he sacked Northern Israel.
      722 BC, Samaria was taken by Sargon II who removed Jews.
      597 BC, Nebuchadnezzar invaded Judah, won, and after an uprising in 587 BCE won again, and transported Jews to Babylon.
      139 BC, Jews were expelled from Rome and in 38 AD from Alexandria by the Romans.
      73 AD the Romans defeated the Jews and enslaved them, displacing them from among others, Jerusalem. Others were sent to forced labour in Egypt and Corinth.
      117 AD, the Diaspora Revolt led to Jews being ethnically cleansed from Cyprus, Cyrenaica and most of Egypt.
      135 AD, the Jewish people left were forced to leave Jerusalem, Gophna, Herodion and Aqraba after an uprising against the Romans. The Romans renamed Israel Palestinae as an insult to the Jews.
      
      And if you have had enough of that (and it is not exhaustive), here’s places that expelled Jews, its also not exhaustive, about half:
      Minorca 418 AD
      Mainz 1012
      Leicester 1231
      Bavaria 1276
      Gascony 1287
      Southern Italy 1288
      Hungary 1360
      Bern 1392
      Spain 1492 (and that decree was only reversed in the 1960s!).
      Portugal 1496
      Dubrovnik 1515
      All papal states 1569
      Frankfurt 1619
      Vienna 1669
      Yemen 1679
      French Caribbean territories 1685
      Russian pogroms 1880 – 1910
      Jaffa 1917 (by Ottomans)
      Germany 1933 – 1957 (from 1945 – 1957 Jews were STILL in concentration camps, albeit under allied watch).
      Italy 1943 – 44
      
      And then there are the Muslim countries who stripped Jews of citizenship and property. Didn’t kick them out, but left them no option but to exodus. See the Farhud Pogrom 1941.
      
      Sorry its long, but this is the REAL blank cheque here.
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:38pm
- sungsamning
  
  Facts and logic are ‘raycist’. So is maths. // sarc
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:12am
  - Boy Geoff
    
    I don’t think the University of Waikato shares your sarcasm though…
    
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    October 9, 2025 9:07am
- Southern Raider
  
  There is also the issue of lack of basic intelligence in TPM and the radical left.
  
  They look at pictures of Israel today with all its major modern cities and industry and think that was in place in 1948 and therefore stolen. I’ve even seen claims that Tel Aviv was a Palestinian city when it was literally built out of the sand a century ago but about 30 Jews.
  
  The reality is the majority of Israel today in early 1900’s was swamp or desert and no one lived there and nothing would grow. Most land was leased by absent landowners who lived elsewhere in the Ottoman Empire.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:17am
  - David Garrett
    
    The reality is the majority of Israel today in early 1900’s was swamp or desert and no one lived there and nothing would grow
    
    That is totally incorrect – as you would know if you read more. The claim back then was that Palestine – and YES that is indeed what it was called under the British mandate which ended in 1948 – was “An empty country for a people without a country”
    Totally incorrect, although of course much of the infrastructure of modern day Israel was built post 1948.
    
    You could start your reading by Googling “Deir Yassin”. That was the first of many atrocities by Israeli terrorists.
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:50am
    - Cassandra
      
      Both sides committed atrocities. And Deir Yassin was not nearly as bad as Google might say. Murder certainly but no rape.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:52am
      - David Garrett
        
        Cass: You can’t be serious! Murder is a relatively minor matter so long as there was no rape involved?
        
        And I have said, Deir Yassin – regardless of how bad it was – was only one of many atrocities committed by Irgun and the Stern gang – both of which the Brits regarded as terrorist organizations.
        
        And as I am sure you know, Menachem Begin – later Prime Minister of Israel – was a leading member of Irgun.
        
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        October 9, 2025 12:08pm
  - Paulus
    
    Not only is the issue the lack of basic intelligence but this from our Education standings that it is complicit with the Teachings of the generations, and the next few, as what TPM is the path to follow.
    
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    October 9, 2025 1:24pm
- cmm
  
  “It could have been a peaceful transition but the Arabs rejected that.”
  
  That is still the position today and will be in another 100 years.
  
  These organisations are completely obsessed with getting rid of Israel. That is their only reason to exist. While Israel exists in any form they will continue.
  
  Since Islam is only growing we can only expect this sentiment to increase.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    Egypt and Jordan no longer attack Israel. Peace is possible. Big ask, to be sure, but we might all be surprised. Let’s hope so. Trump can then have his Nobel.
    
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    October 9, 2025 8:27am
    - Skippytony
      
      Egypt and Jordan have found out the meaning of FAFO the hard way. Sadly, thats not to say the next generation of firebrands aren’t waiting in the wings to rinse and repeat.
      
      There, fixed it for you 🙂
      
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      October 9, 2025 8:31am
    - G152
      
      Egypt got so thoroughly defeated by Israel on the battlefield they gave up …….
      
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      October 9, 2025 9:07am
      - Graeme Hall
        
        Once you have an army of 250,000 men encircled in a desert with no hope of supplies or relief or survival then even the Egyptians can figure out it might a good time to seek peace.
        
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        October 9, 2025 2:30pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      “Egypt and Jordan no longer attack Israel.”
      
      That’s because the US bribes them with foreign aid, which, given how odd this is on its face, can only have one explanation.
      
      Except for Ukraine in recent years, among the top four foreign recipients of US taxpayer funds in 2023 are Israel, Egypt and Jordan which, given the rationale, really just reduces to comhined foreign aid for Israel alone.
      
      https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/06/what-the-data-says-about-us-foreign-aid/
      
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      October 9, 2025 1:45pm
- Simon
  
  75 yrs ago in the Middle East….. there are more pressing problems in NZ to be concerned about.
  
  But these clowns in Maori party are not serious people.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:50am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Please, they are *openly ethno-nationalist* clowns in the Maori party.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:18pm
  - Countrygirl
    
    What is surprising me is the complete lack of reporting on the peace deal by the Herald or Stuff. Are they no longer seated at the table with international media given that it is being widely feted round the world.
    
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    October 9, 2025 6:29pm
    - Ghost
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/middle-east/
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360849765/trump-brokers-gaza-peace-deal-joy-erupts-streets
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360848767/note-passed-trump-very-close-deal-ending-gaza-war
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360848952/trump-says-israel-and-hamas-agree-first-phase-peace-deal
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360848788/trump-says-middle-east-deal-very-close
      
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      October 9, 2025 6:34pm
      - Countrygirl
        
        I’m very pleased to see this, Ghost. Whenever I have looked it has been about the plane struck by birds, the haka, and other local news. I was really wondering what was going on.
        
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        October 9, 2025 9:40pm
      - Ghost
        
        They’ve been top story until the next story rolls in. I did think watching a few minutes of stuffs bird strike coverage they were hoping for a plane crash. they were hyping things up and even misreporting things at times.
        
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        October 9, 2025 9:58pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Tony Blair and Boris Johnson are both walking back Net Zero. Both say the cost outweighs the benefits. The Labor Government is pressing on in Australia. I predict if they are elected for a 3rd term in 2028 by 2035 their economy will be stuffed. They will run out of cheap reliable base load power and have insufficent solar and wind. We know AI will require much more energy and data centres will be placed where the power is cheap and plentiful. I hope NZ politicans are across the energy supply issues. If not NZ will follow Oz with a stuffed economy.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:16am
  - sirknz
    
    “I hope NZ politicans are across the energy supply issues. If not NZ will follow Oz with a stuffed economy.”
    
    Guess our economy will be more stuffed than it is today then…
    
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    October 9, 2025 9:27am
  - Raphael
    
    Last I saw, all Australian states except Tasmania had rejected Net Zero
    
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    October 9, 2025 10:20am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      The Federal Government (Labor) certainly hasnt rejected Net Zero they are pressing on at full speed. The States will do what they are told. Most are Labor controlled anyway.
      
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      October 9, 2025 1:58pm
  - kiwimike
    
    But I thought it already was stuffed.
    It is what National campaigned on …..
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:31am
  - Raphael
    
    This is interesting news.
    https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/nestle-quits-global-alliance-reducing-dairy-methane-emissions-2025-10-08/
    
    LONDON, Oct 8 (Reuters) – Food group Nestle said on Wednesday it had withdrawn from a global alliance for cutting methane emissions that aims to reduce the impact of dairy farming on global warming.
    The Dairy Methane Action Alliance was launched in December 2023, with members, which include Danone, Kraft Heinz and Starbucks, committing to publicly measure and disclose methane emissions from their dairy supply chains and publish plans to reduce those emissions over time.
    
    ….
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:34pm
- Mod88
  
  The “Truth” does not come into it. This is the Te Pati Maori playbook. No different than Tariana Tureia calling Parihaka a Genocide back in the day. Proof yet again that abject Lying is perfectly acceptable in the Te Pati playbook. Ask John Tamihere.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:38am
- NothingLeft
  
  Polynesian migration started in Taiwan between about 5 and 3000 years ago, not 2000.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:09am
  - Cassandra
    
    Okay. Jews were there then too.
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:54am
    - Cassandra
      
      My point is that the Jews have been in Israel far longer than the Maoris have been in NZ.
      
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      October 9, 2025 12:01pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        Depending on how you define Jew. Torah dates to only about 500BC, and there was a lot of change in the dominant religious beliefs before then as they split from Caanite polytheism to Yahweh centered monotheism about 1100BC.
        
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        October 9, 2025 12:56pm
      - Jack5
        
        Cassandra’s 11.54 post: Jews were there then too.
        
        For a second, Cassandra, I thought you were saying Jewish people originated in Taiwan. 🙃
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:09pm
      - KH
        
        The arguments about who was where first is not relevant or solveable. It just leads to trouble.
        Some bunch calling themselves “first nations” is just a grab for political power. The so called second nation (thru to the so called twenty seventh nation) are bound to be rebellious.
        There is no such thing as “first nation”
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:21pm
- herb1
  
  Someone in the media needs to ask Packer and all the other mouthpieces for Hamas , who continually spout violent rhetoric against Jews , if they are going to work over the Christmas holiday period.
  After all its insultingly hypocritical, for these Jew haters to take a holiday that is for celebrating a Jew who was born in Jerusalem over 2000 years ago
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:00pm
- Foxfour
  
  UN decided the partition borders without approval of the majority population nor the other arab countries. Forced on the arabs
  
  It was very lopsided as of all the districts of Palestine only one had a clear jewish majority- Tel Aviv- and that was only because the port city of Jaffa was supposed to be an arab exclave.
  
  Unlike the India partition around the same time, that was influenced by 1945 elections held in the British controlled states where the Awami Muslim League and Hindu Congress became the political entities. The Awami league won in most of the areas that became Pakistan. Partition wasnt some the colonial power nor the Congress wanted.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:54pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Just to inject some facts to this highly emotive topic.
  
  In 1947, the United Nations adopted Resolution 181, recommending the partition of Mandatory Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem under international administration.
  
  The plan was accepted by Jewish leaders ,of course, but rejected by Arab nations and Palestinian leaders, who opposed the allocation of more land to the Jewish state despite its smaller population.
  
  So why are you surprised that the Arabs revolted with combined violence, unfortunately Israel strongly supported by the west were a stronger force.
  
  By the way, this was not a unanimous decision by the UN.
  
  Highly contested with 2 Security council members abstaining!!!!!!!! But carried by the Western(Israeli influenced via the Richest family in the world -Rothschild)
  
  In favour: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Union of South Africa, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela.
  
  Against: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
  
  Abstaining: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.
  
  Forever hopeful that Trumps plan will be successful, but not holding my breath
  
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  October 9, 2025 5:11pm
- Jake Dee
  
  If Israel is claiming UN justification for it’s borders then it can’t claim the borders it has now are justified.
  As usual Zionist have to slice out huge chunks of recorded history to make the pieces if their story fit together straight. 1973 exists, 1967 doesn’t. 2023 exists, 1956 doesn’t.
  As mentioned previously the only recognized law is the Law of The Gun.
  
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  October 9, 2025 7:30pm
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
It’s hard to overstate how utterly ruinous the National party are with their years of harm inflicted upon NZ.

Curious. Do National refuse to recognise reality or can’t recognise reality?
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October 9, 2025 8:05am
- peterwn
  
  First sentence – please give examples.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:40am
  - cmm
    
    Facts do not really matter – what matters is perception.
    
    Perception is what drives public confidence. Perception drives people overseas. Perceptions drive the stock market.
    
    But another way to look at this is that Labour and National are a tag team:
    * Laour is expected to break things. If they do that does not matter. They are doing what is expected.
    * National is expected to fix things. If they fail to do so then they fail.
    
    That is where frustrations come from. Voters are not getting what they expected.
    
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    October 9, 2025 10:09am
    - Simon
      
      “Facts do not really matter – what matters is perception.”
      
      National has ruined NZ. This is a fact. You can review any area of post war NZ
      
      Will dumb it down a little, or make it simple. Check NZ when Lange was elected, who had been in majority govt since 1945, what led to market reforms of the Lange government. Pick this as it’s so obvious of the wreckage inflicted by the National party upon NZ in the post war until 1984.
      
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      October 9, 2025 10:19am
      - R
        
        It was the so-called ‘reforms’ of the Lange government that lead to NZ’s present economic and social morass
        
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        October 9, 2025 11:05am
      - cmm
        
        “National has ruined NZ”
        
        No, that is an opinion made by looking at some facts and some fictions through a coloured lens.
        
        “Labour has ruined NZ” would be as much an opinion too.
        
        Facts are completely objective. eg. $5 billion spent on X is a fact. Whether or not that was good or bad is opinion.
        
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        October 9, 2025 3:33pm
    - peterwn
      
      I asked for examples, not waffle.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:00am
    - mogg
      
      Successful investors do not rely on perceptions. There are so many ways of valuing share prices which are accumulated and made readily available by financial markets. Because of the possible bubble in AI at the moment there are a selection of funds which are offering long – short , all based on experience and their judgement, I have one which is proving to be very stable, but still nice returns in this climate of uncertainty.
      
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      October 9, 2025 1:39pm
      - cmm
        
        “Successful investors do not rely on perceptions.”
        
        Everyone relies on perceptions all the time, but some might use a few facts to arrive at those perceptions.
        
        The AI bubble is certainly over-hyped but whether it will pop tomorrow or only in 20 years is still to be seen.
        
        The Bitcoin bubble which is completely hype-based nonsense has continued to perform well and will do so…. until it doesn’t.
        
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        October 9, 2025 3:36pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      “Facts do not really matter – what matters is perception.”
      That’s a pretty good summary of the mentally impaired post-modernism that’s at the root of so much modern ruination.
      Reality is space, time, heat & cold, light & dark, water, oxygen, metals, carbon, food.
      Perception is just some ideas you might have about all of that.
      When a man who knows the power of reality meets the man who believes in the power of perception, the man with the power of belief is a dead man.
      One can put a bullet straight between your eyes at a thousand meters, while the other is crafting a narrative about why he thinks he has a gun.
      
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      October 9, 2025 7:40pm
  - Simon
    
    Running from post war years National majority govt most of time lead to finally Lange government market reforms to stop the bleeding.
    
    Since 1990s National majority control of govt has led to the falling standards of living for NZ.
    
    You can pick any area, housing, crime, regulation, taxes, health, education, welfare, economy and National’s grubby little paw prints are all over any failing issue for NZ. Just pick an area.
    
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    October 9, 2025 10:09am
    - Skippytony
      
      I dont think it is entirely reasonable to lay all of NZ’s woes at the feet of National.
      First, in theory at least, every government focuses its energy where they have been given a mandate for change.
      Second, as we know, “politics is the art of the possible” – it’s easy to be damning in hindsight.
      Third, Kiwi’s have consistently and clearly voted for the kind of future they want. They may not have thought through the trade offs of those visions, but the country has voted for a left wing drift, low productivity, centralised control over ever increasing sections of the economy, been willing to trash productivity in the interests of green virtue signalling and most alarmingly (to me) seemed overly sanguine about the progressive (sic) undermining of the fundamentals of democracy (gerrymandered seats, unelected representation, racial quotas, chipping away at the rule of law, property rights and the general drift to a two state economy and Government etc).
      You have to be outside this country to see how left wing it is. I was regarded in Australia as a John Howard “Moderate Conservative” – here with no change to my worldview I am suddenly right wing – The Overton window is that different here.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:18am
      - Jack5
        
        Skippytony’s …I dont think it is entirely reasonable to lay all of NZ’s woes at the feet of National.
        
        Present economic malaise is the morning-after hangover of Labour’s Robertson and Reserve Bank Orr blowing out the the money supply by tens of billions of dollars to finance the unprecedented national shutdown-holiday during Covid.
        
        One thing it proves: Social Credit money printing doesn’t work.
        
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        October 9, 2025 1:05pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      National haven’t been great. But Labour have (excepting 80’s ) been far far worse.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:24am
      - R
        
        Including the 80’s, that was the Era when many of our present problems grew from
        
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        October 9, 2025 12:26pm
  - kiwimike
    
    Maorisation of NZ.
    maori biased jobs into govt Ministries
    privilege to Maori over other races
    co-governance
    apartheid laws like Whatu Ora
    Maori only health initiatives
    separate tax % rates (17.5%)
    Maori only education scholarships
    maori only consultation rights under RMA
    special rules at NZ Police
    Maori only co-management of parks, rivers, lakes, and the coastline…
    a separate Maori only TV channel
    Maori schools
    maori content at schools and unis (some forced)
    Maori only housing projects
    Maori only rules in prisons
    maori only ownership rights to foreshore and seabed
    maori only seats on local council
    maori only seats in parliament
    maori only appts onto local govt committees
    maori only local govt advisory committees
    maori only local govt statutory boards
    
    there that enough for you Peterwn
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:42am
    - leoj
      
      Excellent!
      
      The weak, woke Nats are quite happy to overee the maori takeover of New Zealand.
      
      Just ask Luxon who had a chance to define the treaty and blew it.
      
      National are a hindrance to the country’s progress.
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:08pm
Chuck Bird

I saw on the news last night that the benefit cut for 18 and 19 year olds is not just for unemployment benefits, but also for sickness and disability benefits.

I am financially comfortable, but I am not happy kicking those who are vulnerable. I believe this has cost National.
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October 9, 2025 8:08am
- Flossie
  
  Parents are to be made responsible for their 18 and 19 year olds. Doesn’t make any difference if they’re in education, or have some sickness/disability, or just sitting on the couch. If a benefit was available to the sick group there would be an increase in malingering.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:30am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The majority agree with you. However, I heard Ryan Bridge on the radio this morning disagreeing with you. He is right of centre on most issues. This could cost the National Party votes.
    
    4 19
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    October 9, 2025 8:58am
    - mandk
      
      I heard Ryan Bridge as well, and I gained the impression he was trying to be a bit contrarian.
      
      He seemed to be opposing the policy in its entirety because approx 2,000 of the 4,000 young people affected were unable, through sickness or disability, to work.
      
      Well OK, exclude those who can’t work and focus on those who can.
      
      It’s in no one’s interest to have young adults who can work sitting on the sofa like Shane Jones’ proverbial nephs. Not the individuals, not their families, not their communities and not the country.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:37am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Sounds good to me.
        
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        October 9, 2025 12:41pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Correct.
    It is also more efficient and ethical for the actual parents to support their own kids rather than impose the cost on other parents.
    
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    October 9, 2025 8:59am
- Simon
  
  1 in 8 working age is on permanent welfare. National going after 18 19 yrs old is curious given NZ is a massive welfare state including huge bloated govt departments which is also a form of welfare.
  
  Could be linked to immigration, in that it’s harder to push third world immigration if there unemployed teens. But also expect National want these teens working to help lower wages.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:56am
- Ghost
  
  And once again you have completely confused what is going on or just want to mislead to get your daily national moan in
  
  Jobseekers is for those who are work ready or will be work ready, it includes people with an injury or medical issues who will be able to work within a 2 year time frame. Those with long term health issues or disabilities wont be on jobseekers, they will be on supported living.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:20am
  - Ghost
    
    Btw, for anyone that wants actual facts, here is the one news story from yesterday
    
    Social Development Minister Louise Upston also defended including those with a health condition or disability under the new policy, saying they were affected by a “temporary condition”.
    
    “They will be able to work within a two year period,” Upston said. “Our expectation is that they are in further education or training or a job or their parents support them.”
    
    Upston expected those with a permanent disability to be on the Supported Living Payment. She said there was also “ability for some discretion”.
    
    One news
    
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    October 9, 2025 9:34am
- artemisia
  
  How is that different from parents looking after their 16 and 17 year old offspring NEETs? Maybe it is different, but how?
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:27am
  - cmm
    
    Bludgers expect their kids to turn a profit.
    
    14 3
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    October 9, 2025 10:10am
- rouppe
  
  Some of those are also abused.
  
  I just went into seek and looked for jobs paying up to (only) $40k, and there are two thousand jobs right there.
  
  https://www.seek.co.nz/jobs?salaryrange=0-40000&salarytype=annual
  
  I’m sure they’re not all low skill requirements, but while there are jobs like that around there is no excuse for an 18 or 19 year old to be on the dole.
  
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  October 9, 2025 10:54am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Rouppe, Followed your link. Vast majority are part time or casual…
    
    But loved your attempt to frame the argument.
    
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    October 9, 2025 5:19pm
    - rouppe
      
      It’s still employment, isn’t it? What’s your problem with part time?
      
      1 0
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      October 9, 2025 6:26pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Your attempt to frame it as replacing an unemployment benefit.
        
        ergo you would be satisfied if your Nef got $25 a week to live on?
        
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        October 10, 2025 12:11am
- kiwimike
  
  and rightly so Chuck.
  the al;t is horrendous to think about.
  But National don’t deserve the front bench and never have.
  
  National has not stopped the Maorification of NZ.
  we are well on the way to an ethnostate
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:45am
- leoj
  
  Reduce the public service to 2017 levels and withdraw from the Paris Accord.
  
  Books balanced! Maybe in surplus for once.
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:11pm
sungsamning

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2025/10/the_trump_peace_bonanza_you_haven_t_heard_of.html
The Trump peace bonanza you haven’t heard of.

Azerbaijan, Armenia, Nakhchivan, and Syunik are not names most Americans are familiar with. However, the TRIPP (Trump Route for International Peace and Prosperity) Corridor through these countries, cities, and regions is a decisive strategic move in the Caucasus and Central Asia against three U.S. adversaries at once: China, Russia and Iran.
The TRIPP will link the city of Kars in Turkey to the port city of Baku in Azerbaijan. Baku is the most important port in the Caspian Sea, an inland sea connecting Azerbaijan directly to Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan. Together, these countries have proven oil reserves of 37 billion barrels, slightly more than the entire U.S.’s proven reserves of 35 billion.
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October 9, 2025 8:10am
- Master Mariner
  
  Its called Supply Chains/Lines.
  Playing catch up with the Belt and Road, Arctic Northern Route and a number of other Non Western Supply Lines iniatives.
  Its as Simple as this, Who controls Supply Chains controls World Trade.
  The US has had Greenland, Panama Canal, etc in its sights, Why ?
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:36am
  - sungsamning
    
    Correct.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:55pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360847471/such-relief-fresh-hope-jobseeker-rejected-almost-8000-times

Nothing like a bit of free media exposure !

Yesterday on GD I made this comment in regard to this person:

“The article about him should help a bit. Provided he tidies himself up, as he looks a mess.”

The article worked for him by the look of it.
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October 9, 2025 8:11am
- Chris2
  
  Lets hope Stuff follow up his progress with working for a living in three months time. Let’s see if he is still employed.
  
  This story reminds me of one several years ago of a guy who had his face almost fully tatooed and claimed it prevented him from getting a job. Some company that provides tatooe removal offerd him free help but he only turned up for one or two appoitments before disappearing.
  
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  October 9, 2025 10:32am
  - David Garrett
    
    Chris: Anyone who gets a facial tattoo – full or partial – knows very well that it is going to badly affect their ability to get a job…any job.
    
    13 0
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    October 9, 2025 12:26pm
    - Colville
      
      It dosent have a affect your job prospects if you are doing standover for the Mob….
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/notorious-hawkes-bay-mobster-convicted-for-assault-on-his-partner/PJ4HIYPW7VJRLCUXJGXOKETCIQ/
      
      This POS was also caught nicking wallets from my gym..!
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:07pm
    - leoj
      
      Only if they have a functioning brain.
      
      1 1
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      October 9, 2025 2:12pm
    - Aquarius
      
      And should Google
      Tattoo, Cancer, recent Danish study
      Before getting a tattoo
      
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      October 9, 2025 5:22pm
- rouppe
  
  That’s good news. I wonder…
  
  More emails followed, from other trucking companies, a commercial cleaning business and a recruitment agent – all were keen to help.
  
  Were they not advertising already? Had he tried at these places? Presumably so.
  
  So if it is the context of his story that’s provided the opportunity then how can someone get that context across in an application?
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:01am
sungsamning

https://nypost.com/2025/10/08/us-news/ex-fbi-director-james-comey-to-appear-in-federal-court-to-face-trump-dojs-criminal-charges/
Comey Trial In January.
ALEXANDRIA, Va. — A stoic former FBI Director James Comey pleaded not guilty Wednesday to a federal charge of lying to Congress five years ago, as the Justice Department kicked off its first-ever prosecution of a former bureau chief.

Comey, 64, also denied a charge of obstruction of justice tied to the long-running probe into alleged collusion between President Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and Russian officials. His trial was set for Jan. 5, 2026.

The former FBI director, clad in a dark blue suit, stared straight ahead toward US District Judge Michael Nachmanoff during the 30-minute hearing at the Albert V. Bryan Courthouse. Comey’s lawyer, former Chicago US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, entered the not guilty plea on his client’s behalf.
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October 9, 2025 8:12am
- Simon
  
  Attempted coup against Trump 1.0. Comey should be hanged.
  
  That what Russiagate was all about. Removing Trump from office via a security state coup.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:00am
  - NothingLeft
    
    And giving a pass to corrupt democrats – Hillary, Biden, Obama and other massively corrupt DNC grandees on the take via pay for play and diversion of US Aid funds etc into (after sufficient transacted cutouts) the bank accounts of connected bureaucrats .
    
    A large part of the Art market is political and other money laundering – massively inflating values of things with no intrinsic value, without being required to pay tax on appreciation, as are book deals and high speaking fees for former politicians.
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  Comey is a traitor and should get the death penalty.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:36am
  - MCōs
    
    That’s a bit harsh
    
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    October 9, 2025 12:20pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      I dunno, he was a central participant in an attempted and perhaps successful coup against a duly elected president (depending how you interpret the effects on and results of 2020 election).
      
      If you don’t prosecute and punish such behavior to an extreme degree you are likely to get repetition given the extremely high stakes.
      
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      October 9, 2025 1:01pm
  - virtualmark
    
    I’m no fan of Comey but:
    1) Explain how Comey’s actions meet the US legal threshold for “traitor” (noting there’s no such term in law, but “treason” is the closest regular such crime).
    2) Explain how Comey’s actions meet any of the crimes in the US Federal system that carry capital punishment.
    
    Or … breathe through your nose instead of your mouth. There’s a trial now underway. Let’s hear the evidence and allow the defence to put their case. Then we can decide about Comey.
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:48pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Thanks for the respiratory advice….its changed my life.
      
      Comey intentionally lied to the public and conspired to overthrow the President.
      
      Hopefully he will get the chair, the lethal injection is too good for him.
      
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      October 9, 2025 4:30pm
      - losingtheplot
        
        A little harsh for the person who in all likelihood was responsible for pushing Trump 1.0 the last few inches needed to get over the finish line?
        
        I guess this all depends as you say on how you read the history. For me, he’s the fool who misread the moment, placed himself at the centre of an election and in doing so changed the outcome. At the same time he’s also someone who ultimately did the right thing by refusing to kiss the ring. His court date on a trumped up charge (couldn’t resist that) is payback for that.
        
        His trial will be thrown out of court pretty quickly – which will be seen as more evidence of a massive conspiracy, instead of what it is. A show trial reminiscent of the old USSR.
        
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        October 9, 2025 9:04pm
imalwaysright

The vodafone girl who doxed Winston was on tv1 this morning.

Its worth watching just to see how thick and delusional she actually is.

Even the ex netballer seemed unsure of the halfwit.

Sorry no link, she was on just after the 7 am news.
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October 9, 2025 8:27am
- kiwimike
  
  she should be in jail for her targeting behaviour
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:50am
- Jack5
  
  Nor Vodafone, IAR …. it’s been One NZ for quite some time.
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:25pm
- MCōs
  
  I don’t particularly like TV1 Breakfast so don’t watch Jenny-Mae Coffin, the ‘ex net baller’, but who is the vodaphone girl you refer to?
  It would be handy if you used their actual names, imalwaysright!
  Rena Owen among others made ads for Vodafone
  She’s be applying for NZ super soon. I hope she makes a better go of it than Winston!! Can’t be that thick.
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:47pm
- sirknz
  
  She is an actor, and actors, as well as their opinions on just about everything except their next project, should be treated with disdain.
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:47pm
RoboRob

No coverage at all here about the latest poll results from DPF?

Labour 31.2 percent, down 2.6 percentage points
National 29.6 percent, down 3.5
Greens 12 percent, up 1.3
NZ First 10.6 percent, up 2.5
ACT 6.6 percent, down 0.1
Te Pāti Māori 4.4 percent, up 0.1

Preferred leader

Chris Hipkins 20.9 percent (up 3.2 percentage points)
Christopher Luxon 19.8 percent (down 1.9)
Winston Peters 9.9 percent (down 1.0)
Chlöe Swarbrick 6.3 percent (down 2.5)
David Seymour 4.0 percent (up 0.3)

Take aways
1) National has continued its downward trend. One poll is meaningless, it is the trend that matters, and National have trended down all year.
2) Act has no momentum and looks to be stuck. It seems to poll around the same % in every poll from every organisation. Curia polling always seems to have Acts % lower then other polling companies.
3) NZF continue to strengthen. For NZF and a minor party in a coalition government this is particularly impressive.
4)Hipkins is now solidly the preferred PM
5) National were polling around 30% when Simon Bridges was removed.
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October 9, 2025 9:27am
- NothingLeft
  
  National are in a similar vein to the Conservatives in UK – supposedly sensible, but failing over decades to show the mettle required to actually effect necessary reforms to counter the ongoing destructive efforts of the left. They are milque toast conservatives managing the decline.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:27am
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    Agree although they don’t have a conservative bone in their urban business elite bodies.
    
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    October 9, 2025 12:56pm
  - AitchW
    
    National has spent the last 2 years trying to reverse and repair the appalling mess Labour left behind. We are just now seeing the greens shoots. The next 12 months will see a steady stream of good results and more positive policy announcements.
    Our own small business is starting to see a slow but steady increase in customers exercising discretionary spending and increased demand from business customers.
    
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    October 9, 2025 2:22pm
    - Yabster
      
      your mate chippy called and would like round 2 of wrecking the country beyond repair – seems the more hopeless you are the higher you rise in Liemore..
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:58pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      We are just now seeing the green shoots
      
      If you say so. Treasury report didn’t mention them. But no worries – you can pop this line out next year … 🙂
      
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      October 9, 2025 7:30pm
- cmm
  
  “National were polling around 30% when Simon Bridges was removed”
  
  Is is different when a party is in opposition.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:40am
  - RoboRob
    
    You are correct. There are very few examples of PMs being rolled due to low polling. The best example I could find was David Lange. Here is what co pilot said…
    
    Labour’s support had fallen well below its 1987 election result of 48%.
    
    By mid-1989, various polls indicated Labour was polling in the low 30s or even high 20s, depending on the source.
    
    The National Party was gaining ground and would go on to win the 1990 election in a landslide.
    
    So somewhat similar to now for National. However we are talking first past the post rather then MMP. Dropping below 40% in FPP would be terrible.
    
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    October 9, 2025 1:16pm
    - Foxfour
      
      Countdown for Luxon to do ‘a Little’ early next year ?
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:47pm
      - cmm
        
        Do “a Little”?
        
        You mean step aside and hand over to the woman? You could be right.
        
        But it wouldn’t really be “doing a Little”. Little was not PM at the time and they had nothing to lose. Doing it when you’re PM is a bit different.
        
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        October 9, 2025 7:50pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Isn’t a leader with 19.8% support an oxymoron ?
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:40pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Certainly a leader polling less then his party would seem to indicate a leader pulling the party vote down rather then one pulling it up.
    
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    October 9, 2025 1:10pm
- peterwn
  
  “Hipkins is now solidly the preferred PM” – I do not call 20.9% v 19.8% ‘solid’ – almost ahead by a nose. If a horse is ahead by a nose 1000m into the Melbourne Cup, there would be very little assurance that this horse would win.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:27pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Im talking about the trend. Luxon has trended down all year and Hipkins is trending up. The last poll had Hipkins a smidge ahead and now it is a bigger lead. That should be very concerning for a sitting PM vs the opposition leader that was voted out of a very un popular Labour party.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:18pm
  - cmm
    
    20.9 vs 19.8 is within the margin of error, so statistically they’re really the same.
    
    But if, as Robo says, you take trends into account then the writing is on the wall.
    
    Well, let’s be even more honest – if you’re even in the same park as Hipkins then you are not exactly winning.
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:51pm
imalwaysright

Dead rat on the menu for cafe owners.

Chocolate Fish owners apologise for blaming café’s closure on Sir Peter Jackson | RNZ News https://share.google/IFdVF42cDbswYRLSS
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October 9, 2025 9:50am
- M.Solvent
  
  Interesting – Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh may not have made the decision, but they are the owners and directors of the company that did.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:10am
Damocles11

The latest moves to slash interest rates will do nothing to correct the deep structural issue which are the real problem with the New Zealand economy. I see this as a last effort to try and push a heavily indebted and cost-of-living-crushed populace into a binge of further borrowing and spending that will prompt a ‘dead cat bounce’ recovery. I say ‘dead cat bounce’ because you cannot overcome the fundamentals of our situation: the economy is beset by many and varied structural issues including high energy prices, low productivity, the RMA, rent seeking grifters, low innovation, over-reliance on the primary sector, falling GDP per capita, poor infrastructure and more.
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October 9, 2025 9:59am
- Paulus
  
  Perhaps people are not spending because they are terrified that what the Ardern Robertson Government did to all New Zealand can happen again quickly, when the left get into power, as they are already there within the mainline Public Services and Accolites like Teachera and the Medical profession.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:35am
  - kiwimike
    
    stupid comment Paulus
    Teachers union certainly supports and listens to NZ Labour, look at the surrender just before the last election.
    
    senior doctors do not.
    they have just had enough with the bullying and bullshit from MOH & national/Labour.
    year in year out (less than keep up increases) in a very very tight offshore employment market.
    what don’t you understand about an additional 30% increase just to go across the ditch.??
    
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    October 9, 2025 11:55am
    - leoj
      
      Give the doctors and nurses what they want.
      
      Give teachers nothing. They have failed, thanks to their union.
      
      1 2
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      October 9, 2025 2:16pm
    - Yabster
      
      what don’t you understand that NZ is not Aus- why you and frankly anyone thinks we should pay our public servants- nurses/Teachers/Doctors the same as Aus is a really dumb union tactic- we don’t have the money, we have chosen to not use our resources unlike Aus, – do India/Indonesian/PI countries try to compete with NZ Nurses wages etc – nope.
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:18pm
- rjay
  
  My mortgage comes up for renewal next month. I plan to increase the mortgage but maintain current payments allowing me to renovate bathroom and kitchen and replace the car.
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:14pm
Jack5

Green MP Benjamin Doyle’s grandiose farewell speech is eviscerated by NZ First’s Casey Costello speaking in the House. This is a brilliant putdown of Doyle, who had been hailed as NZ’s first “non-binary” MP — a claim which ignored Georgina Beyer, an MP from 1999 to 2005, then later, Mayor of Carterton.

Here’s the link to the video – it’s just over six minutes long:

https://youtu.be/DJMJ-n3CF0w?si=yOjH-4xvu1SVRvni
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October 9, 2025 10:20am
- Swifty
  
  Beyer never claimed to be non-binary.
  
  [Mod – fixed]
  
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  October 9, 2025 10:47am
  - Jack5
    
    Swifty, what is the difference between “non-binary” and “transgender”?
    
    6 2
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    October 9, 2025 11:06am
    - Ghost
      
      Non binary identity as both genders, no gender, or fluid gender. So while a non binary may identify as Trans, a Trans who isn’t non binary will not identify as non binary.
      
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      October 9, 2025 11:16am
      - Swifty
        
        Yep, and Beyer always identified as a trans-woman i.e. very much on the binary.
        
        6 1
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        October 9, 2025 11:27am
      - cmm
        
        I would think that is not entirely correct.
        
        The difference is surely that:
        * all trans people are non-binary (ie. they do not fall in the basic male/female buckets).
        * not all on-binaries are trans (eg. might be trans, bisexual, or whatever).
        
        2 2
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        October 9, 2025 11:45am
      - Jethrod
        
        Wow….. tie yourself in knots why don’t you!
        
        5 1
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        October 9, 2025 11:53am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Is their use of the word binary an admission that there are only two sexes…
        They can’t have it both ways.
        
        6 2
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        October 9, 2025 12:44pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Georgina – formerly George – Beyer was a man who had had his cock cut off – and hormone treatment to develop secondary sex characteristics – no more and no less.
        
        Benjamin Doyle was and remains simply a mentally ill weirdo who couldn’t hack the scrutiny that comes with being an MP. It’s that simple.
        
        18 2
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        October 9, 2025 1:48pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Who would give a fuck? Either way, severely mentally impaired.
      
      13 2
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      October 9, 2025 12:33pm
- KH
  
  Brilliant. Do watch Casey Costello.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:33pm
  - David Garrett
    
    KH: Yes…I was very impressed by Ms Costello.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:23pm
PurplePen

Casey Costello yesterday I think, used the general debate to call out Benjamin Doyle for his “insulting” final speech. It’s worth a watch. An excellent speech and makes an excellent point that he left rushed out at door after greatly mischaracterising parliament and all the people in it that are and have not been cis white male black suit wearing.

https://x.com/aniobrien/status/1975815084766318648
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October 9, 2025 10:25am
PurplePen

“From my own experience, I have suffered abuse and harassment – particularly online – which I believe is due mainly to the fact that I’m a woman of colour,“ Whanau said.

I’d debate that. It’s likely most of the vitriol was due to performance on and off the job, the virtue signalling and wokeness which people in public positions that behave that way seem to think the public are stupid and buy into everything they say. Being mislead at the outset as to what made up Tory Whanau. Hopefully never to be repeated. If she wants to “believe” what she has said is the cause, fill your boots.

Not paywalled.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington/wellington-mayor-tory-whanau-demands-change-at-council-discusses-abuse-faced-in-final-mayoral-speech/PZNSILZBVZCKXDCTAFBIZVVD5U/
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October 9, 2025 10:37am
- Eastlander
  
  By her own account she lacks the mental capacity to pay attention in meetings. All the minutiae of city politics was just baffling noise to her, so when she tried to make sense of it all her limited intellect latched on to the few things it could process – race and sex.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:25am
  - Foxfour
    
    I would guess she smarter than [….]!
    Bachelor of Arts in media studies from Victoria University of Wellington in 2006 and a Postgraduate Diploma in Business and Administration in Communication Management from Massey University in 2012.
    
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    October 9, 2025 2:44pm
    - Eastlander
      
      You would be wrong, as always.
      
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      October 9, 2025 3:01pm
Notsofast

Helen Clark promotes Martyn Bradbury on X after he has proposed expectorating into the food of Winston and others in cafes.

https://x.com/CitizenBomber/status/1975641047678976499?t=xWPnmy80ldkFIq9voE-EKg&s=19

Back arrow to see it is her repost
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October 9, 2025 11:00am
- cmm
  
  Wasn’t she one of the people spitting on police?
  
  She seems to like committing assault.
  
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  October 9, 2025 11:46am
  - OlderChas
    
    I think it was soldiers – in the form of returning Vietnam forces – that she and Goff spat at.
    
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    October 9, 2025 1:40pm
    - Yabster
      
      stay classy Helen //
      
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      October 9, 2025 2:19pm
mogg

TV 3 reported on Israel’s October 7th day of remembrance by giving a very brief outline of what happened. This was then followed up by what was obviously the Hamas version of events, giving numbers of civilians, women and children who have been killed and injured in the conflict. Despite many tens of thousands of deaths amongst”civilians” according to the figures given there was no mention of Hamas terrorists killed at all. TV 3 News is a disgusting piece of work, their propaganda is very blatant, this needs to be mentioned in parliament.
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October 9, 2025 11:07am
- Inandout
  
  mogg, MSM in just about every Western country is similar or worse. The BBC and UKSky report only what fits their agenda whick thereby means reported attacks by boat illegals on British citizens are twisted or ignored. Anyway that Manchester mosque attacker was Muslim.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7PocadOshY
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:28pm
  - mogg
    
    I follow the news in UK media and whilst they are biased I have seen nothing like the blatant misinformation on TV3 last night, even the biased and bigoted BBC are not that bad. TV3 are doing their best to fuel Anti-Semitism and hatred.
    
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    October 9, 2025 2:37pm
BeaB

Two Māori women politicians roundly criticise their opponents. One woman is from the Left, the other from the Right. Guess which one gets the attention of NZ media?
Not Casey Costello who delivered a passionate, well-reasoned and researched critique of Benjamin Bussy’s valedictory speech.
But the media darling , Tory Whanau, whose speech was mainly a Kamala-Harris-nothing-was-my -fault diatribe, hits the headlines.
And the MSM expect us to place our trust in them.
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October 9, 2025 11:37am
Swifty

I found myself thinking this morning what, in similar economic circumstances, Labour would be saying about the economy and their performance should they have won in 2023.

Can you just imagine the lying, misleading, gaslighting and total bullshittery that they’d be spouting to excuse their performance and no doubt attempt to blame Trump, Covid, Key, the Middle East and Ukraine. Greedy supermarket operators, power companies and banks would be excoriated daily.

Some would argue though that if Labour were in power the economy would be in much better shape. But then you’d have to ask, how would that be so? What would Labour be doing that would lead to better economic outcomes? What, borrowing and spending more than National, raising taxes on already broke NZ families, whacking up benefits and minimum wages even more? Bring in fair pay agreements and pay equity awards which will cost taxpayers billions more annually and add further billions annually to business costs – which they will be forced to pass on to their customers?

If you ask me, all other things being equal, if Labour were in right now we’d be seeing much higher inflation, much higher government borrowing and spending, the floodgates being opened with the public purse on pay awards and a return to the old days of money being firehosed around the regions, Maoridom etc with poor or no controls.

One thing I’m also 100% sure of is we’d have ztev-clones on here daily saying “But look at the GDP numbers!”
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October 9, 2025 11:41am
- RoboRob
  
  Sure National are way better then Labour.
  
  However I often find myself wondering ‘If labour were in power now and all things were the same, same policy and economic environment, what would people here be saying?’
  
  I struggle to picture people here saying they were doing a good job given the curcumstances.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:21pm
- cmm
  
  There is a massive difference.
  
  Nobody expects Labour to do a good job, so when they don’t it does not really matter – the voters are getting what they voted for.
  
  People vote for Labour when they want out of control spending and “party mode”. So no surprises when they get it,
  
  Then everyone gets a hangover after the party and realise they need some grown ups for a term or two to clean up the mess. They vote for National. After a period of tidying up, they want another party and it is back to Labour.
  
  So National just not being as bad as Labour completely misses the point. They are performing against completely different benchmarks. Being better than Labour is not enough.
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:05pm
NothingLeft

Interesting data leak from Russia on their loss rates through first 8 months of 2025. 500 a day dead and missing. 281000 total killed wounded and missing 86000 dead. 33000 mission (dead or deserted, a large fraction will be dead)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c_KO5sDcWY

Remarkably this matches Ukraine claims (~300k) for same period within a bout 6%

We haven’t seen such leaks since start of war, and may indicate internal efforts to pressure Putin

1.3 wounded for every 1 dead. appalling stats in modern military experience. showing vicious impact of drones to offensive actions.

Extrapolated to whole conflict that suggests Russians have likely lost 400k dead so far and more than 1million casualties
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October 9, 2025 12:11pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Before you even begin to see if the information is accurate you have to start examining if the attribution is accurate.
  Do you have any reason at all to believe that this is a “Leak” from the Russian Ministry of Defense other than some guy “Preston Stewart” says so?
  And Preston Stewart just puts the attribution onto some Ukrainian sources!
  Check your sources!
  Treat direct speech as direct speech.
  Treat reported speech as reported speech.
  DO NOT treat reported speech as direct speech!
  If Mr. A says to you, “XYZ is true”, then what you have direct evidence of is, “Mr. A says that XYZ is true”.
  You DO NOT have any evidence that XYZ is true other than Mr. A’s endorsement!
  I think I will have to go to my grave still trying to teach 99% of the Kiwibloggers so very basic facts about logic, reason and the standards of evidence.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:23pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone see 8 October on Sky News Australia last night about Jew hatred after they were attacked by Hamas?
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October 9, 2025 12:20pm
Ghost

Hopefully it will last, but I wouldn’t hold my breath

US President Donald Trump says Israel and Hamas have “both signed off” on the first phase of a peace deal.

“This means that all of the hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their troops to an agreed upon line as the first steps toward a strong, durable, and everlasting peace,” Trump said in a statement on social media on Thursday.

Article
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October 9, 2025 12:25pm
- cmm
  
  I wish them all the best, but I have one word for Trump and everyone else:
  
  تقیة
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:52pm
- rouppe
  
  I wonder how the Left are going to portray that this has nothing to do with Trump.
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:03pm
  - Ghost
    
    Surely they would be the first at the front of the line to help rebuild Gaza and help the population shift to a more peaceful life…….
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:40pm
    - MCōs
      
      They could rebuild the damage caused by the Palestinians and Israel rebuild the damage they perpetrated
      
      Good luck with any of that. I’m picking settlers will be authorized to take over chunks of Gaza
      
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      October 9, 2025 4:41pm
      - rouppe
        
        I don’t think so. Once the hostages are returned there will be no appetite among Israelis for Netanyahu to get back into fighting, which that act would surely trigger.
        
        My pick is that countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE will launch a huge building programme. Whether that will be for Palestinians or to create an Arab Riviera for themselves… 🤷‍♂️
        
        Maybe there’ll be a “Trump Peace Tower”!
        
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        October 9, 2025 5:30pm
- PurplePen
  
  Well … if it’s a certainty this might be one reaction …
  
  https://x.com/slingshot_the/status/1976067189825581170
  
  and then presumably all the protests will stop and the scarves put away.
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:49pm
Ghost

I wonder if they have been advised the injunction will be lifted at the next hearing

The parents of Tom Phillips have penned a letter to their local newspaper, extending a “sincere apology” to the local community.

Former fugitive Phillips was killed in the early hours of September 8 after entering into a shootout with police, during which he critically injured an officer.

Article
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October 9, 2025 12:28pm
- Damocles11
  
  There was legions of Tom Phillips fans around who wouldn’t hear a bad word said about the crim. His own parents have effectively disowned him. How is the fan club feeling these days?
  
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  October 9, 2025 12:48pm
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    Who cares?
    I’m sick to death of hearing about it, I feel sorry for the kids but move on already, this media obsession with the guy isn’t healthy.
    
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    October 9, 2025 1:02pm
- Jack5
  
  Ghost, the letter was printed directly above the regular column of the local King Country cop.
  
  How independent is that?
  
  Is there going to be any public inquiry into the Phillips case?
  
  Lot of parties involved: local people suspected of helping, the police, the Ministry for Children — Oranga Tamariki, the Family Court, the Police Minister who seemed to hint that Phillips was a sexual abuser.
  
  For years, this story will linger and probably grow, with publishers signing up the kids as they become adults.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:53pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Is there going to be any public inquiry into the Phillips case?”
    
    I get the impression that the documentary maker embedded with the cops will be the defacto investigator.
    
    Haven’t heard the Police reasoning behind giving civilians access to an ongoing investigation; one thing is certain – they weren’t there to make the police look bad.
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:03pm
    - Ghost
      
      Camera crew filming with first responders is nothing new.
      
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      October 9, 2025 3:32pm
      - MCōs
        
        There’s a number of local & Australian tv programmes that never show the police, border control etc in a bad light.
        Those highway cops patrolling the beautiful, sunny central Otago never have a gun pulled on them as they cheerfully write out tickets for the local hill billies and baffled tourists
        
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        October 9, 2025 4:01pm
Maggie's ex partner

I am looking forward to Chloe and Co praising President Trump for having a successful peace plan
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October 9, 2025 12:41pm
- rouppe
  
  No, mate. They’ll say it was because of the brave flotilla people “forcing” Israel to back down. //
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:05pm
- Gussy Fink-Nottle
  
  And the MSM. I can see the headlines now:
  
  ‘Trump’s reckless release of Hamas convicts destabilises plan to decolonise Israeli prisons.’
  
  ‘Trump raises tensions in other global conflicts, relative to Middle East.’
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:47pm
- MCōs
  
  One doesn’t like to be negative about these things, but having seen what’s happened in that area before perhaps it’s the end of the beginning
  
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  October 9, 2025 4:11pm
sirknz

Following on froom yesterday’s pay for pass driver’s license at VTNZ, here is a lady, who chooses to be unnamed, protesting that she shouldn’t have to resit because she didn’t pay a bribe.

She only failed the practical 2 or 3 times prior to changing venues and getting at Highbrook.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360848279/its-stressful-woman-fears-her-licence-and-job-could-be-collateral-alleged-driver-test-pass-bribery

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

If she now has a job where she is required to drive, and has had many more months of practical driving experieince, she should now be able to pass the practical test with ease.
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October 9, 2025 12:53pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Let them resit for free absolutely but this is about safety. It’s entirely reasonable that she should have to resit so that we can ensure we have safe drivers on the road.
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:07pm
- Jack5
  
  This isn’t the first time there’s been corruption in Auckland driving testing.
  
  Here’s something from seven years ago:
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/358442/former-aa-worker-took-more-than-56k-in-bribes-for-licenses
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:27pm
- MCōs
  
  My wife drove for years in Bangkok on a Thai license and here for a year, which she was entitled to do, before getting an NZ license.
  Unbelievable, to me, she failed the practical two or three times and was ready to flag it all away, but had one more go with a different inspector and passed.
  What to make of all that?
  Personally I think most seasoned drivers would fail on any particular day.
  
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  October 9, 2025 4:28pm
  - cmm
    
    Sounds like Thailand is considered a place of dodgy licenses.
    
    When my wife and I arrived in NZ from South Africa in 1992 we both had held licenses for 12 years. We had to do the NZ learner’s test to check we knew the road signs but did not have to do the practical test. Instant full NZ drivers licenses.
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:58pm
cmm

Enough of the emotional bullshit standing as reporting.

Why should it matter whether it is a 17-year-old girl or a 37 year old Mongrel Mob enforcer that was killed in a police pursuit?

Person evading police drives into tree. Tree wins.

The emotional bullshit should have no bearing on the case, but unfortunately already has.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360848974/police-officer-charged-over-death-teenage-girl-can-be-named
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October 9, 2025 12:57pm
- MCōs
  
  From what I understand the officer may have pursued the deceased in a particularly dangerous manner, possibly touching her car causing it to run off the road into a tree.
  I expect it’ll all come out in the trial if he doesn’t plead guilty
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:50pm
  - cmm
    
    Possibly. But what’s that got to do with her being a 17 year old girl?
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:58pm
- Jake Dee
  
  a 17 year old girl is going to be a less experienced driver than a 37 year old. It’s relevant information.
  But people are usually more emotionally invested in the death of a young female than a middle aged male for psychological reasons that probably have innate causes.
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:28pm
Jack5

Replaced your 3G phone?

Cellphone 3G transmission, on which older small text-and-talk only cellphones have operated, is about to end.

To complicate things on this predominantly pre-pay system, One NZ, the main network provider, is encouraging such customers to move up to PrePlay Plus.

Prepay talk-and-text phones (occasionally with a very low grade camera), suit many folk. For example, for affordable and safe parent-children contact; for old folk who want just basic use and perhaps big keys to touch; tradies, if they can find a rugged version; those who want a second phone for honourable or dishonourable purposes; and, overseas, increasingly users who want to “declutter” their lives from smart-phone video babble. (An alternative to having two phones is a second SIM, in a capable phone.)

These simple cellphones, with various descriptions from “basic” to “dumb,” provide far less revenue for phone networks.

For phone retailers, basic phones range from cheaper to far cheaper, with matching margins.

One NZ (formerly Vodaone NZ) has been the main provider to the “basic” phone market, and right now seems to be pushing these customers towards a “PrePay Plus” monthly payment system.

Not to worry, basic phone users! The market will always provide — eventually.

China SatNet’s Guowang system is looking to compete with market leader Musk’s Starlink system, which has more than 8,500 satellites up and working and hopes eventually to have more than 40,000. Musk calls his system a “megaconstellation”.

China hopes eventually to have three satellite “megaconstellations”. The other two are Quianfan and Honghu-3.

China is far behind Musk. So is the Franco-British, Paris-based Eutelsat One-Web, which is raising cash.

Amazon, in Project Kuiper, also plans to put up a satellite network.

These providers eventually may offer alternative mobile transmission for NZ, and at lower prices than the current Starlink (through One NZ) service for rural folk.

China services eventually may allow smart NZ retailers to come in at the low end of the market for basic phone users.

For us dumb-phone customers at the bottom of the market, we might say, things will look up.
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October 9, 2025 12:59pm
- AitchW
  
  Holy shit. With all those satellites up there will the sunlight be able to get through?
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:19pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Skinny are offering some very cheap plans at the moment.
  
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  October 9, 2025 6:06pm
Pope Punctilious II

Why are ACT languishing at 6.6 % in the latest poll? And it’s not an isolated result, as they’ve been trending slowly downward lately. Possibilities:
(a) People don’t like ACT’s economic ideas e.g. flat tax rate? (not that it’s ever going to happen in a coalition government)
(b) People don’t like ACT’s pushback against Maorification?
(c) People don’t like David Seymour’s personality? (he often sometimes come across as superior and arrogant, though I commend his patience in dealing with idiot questions from the media)
(d) Something else?
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October 9, 2025 1:10pm
- MCōs
  
  The party popularity usually revolve around the public perception of the leader, particularly for Act & NZF, from my observation.
  A lot of people just don’t like David Seymour, I’m afraid
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:26pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    That’s my preferred hypothesis too.
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:02pm
  - AitchW
    
    I like Seymour. He’s smart, articulate, and unfailingly respectful in debate with the opposition.
    Opposition MPs could do well to take a leaf out of his book. Especially the more, shall we say, animated ones….
    
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    October 9, 2025 3:18pm
  - RoboRob
    
    I think there is a stigma around ACT. They are perceived as ‘hard right’ or ‘extreme right’ by some. These words have very negative connotations that don’t exist for the left.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:25pm
sirknz

‘Mistake’.

Kind of like a bank error in your favour…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360848905/error-leads-7000-painted-mayoral-portrait-tory-whanau-rather-photo
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October 9, 2025 1:26pm
- Ian
  
  Certainly a favourable “bank error” for the artist. I wonder whether there was any collusion between the artist and the subject….
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:24pm
- imalwaysright
  
  From the article:
  
  “”His attention to detail is incredible and I love how he captured the original brief – Mana serving diva.”” -Whanau talking about the artist.
  
  What the hell does “Mana serving diva” mean?
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:28pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    By Mana she meant Mama as in self = Self Serving Diva.
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:16pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Well the diva but is spit on.
    
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    October 9, 2025 6:28pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That is a terrible painting, but also accurate in a way that does not reflect well on Tory.
  
  She’s pictured slightly from below and one side. The effect is that she is looking down her nose at the viewer, in a supercilious manner.
  
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  October 9, 2025 6:47pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    The Mana Lisa
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:45pm
- Quail
  
  RR
  Probably would have been a very different result at the ballot if National had supported Seymour’s bill.
  People don’t vote for failed policies no matter how valid or necessary they may have been.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Thought I’d organise my passport renewal a few months before the old one expired as I’d read that there could be delays in processing.

Yesterday I sent in an online renewal application at 10:13am and paid for the standard (non-urgent) option.

At 4pm I had a txt from NZ Post telling me that my passport was on its way.

My new passport was delivered to me in Gizzy at 11:30am today.

Brilliant service – NZ Passport Office and NZ Post
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October 9, 2025 1:28pm
- Foxfour
  
  I had so many issues with getting my ‘selfie’ approved as passport photo
  In contrast with a different legal paperwork situation, which was also done remotely, the software used gave a better screen prompts for the picture incl an oval outline for where the head should be. I had to take a picture of the passport too as part of identity verification as that gave a image to match too
  
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  October 9, 2025 1:59pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I had been forewarned about using a selfie…so paid $25 for a “Warehouse Stationary” jpeg.
    
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    October 9, 2025 5:48pm
- Biscuit
  
  Where are you off to, Maggy?
  
  I jet out of Wellington next week to take in Everest Day at Randwick in Sydney.
  
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  October 9, 2025 4:22pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Nowhere…
    
    just being an optimist… that sometime between now and the next 10 years /death, I might head off to even warmer climes for a shufti.
    
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    October 9, 2025 5:44pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I wonder whether the exemplary service reflects a lack of demand arising from people opting to put off renewal until the new NZ passports become available.
  
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  October 9, 2025 6:51pm
  - Ghost
    
    I would doubt that. The new English first passports don’t role out until the end of 2927
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:17pm
  - MCōs
    
    There’s some hardline MPs when it comes to giving priority to English language over Maori, but if they needed a new passport to go on some overseas junket I doubt it would be an obstacle
    
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    October 9, 2025 7:55pm
Damocles11

The spin is that the Reserve Bank can slash the OCR because the government has reined in spending. The facts are a different matter. Treasury has revealed the state of the Government’s finances, and it shows we’re borrowing just to keep the lights on. Expenses have increased and continue to exceed revenue. The country is still in an operating deficit of $9.3b, which is $600m higher than last year.
‘Net core Crown debt reached $182.2b – or 41.8% of GDP – which is an increase of $6.7b from the previous year.’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360849094/governments-books-show-finance-minister-borrowing-billions-keep-lights
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October 9, 2025 1:48pm
- mandk
  
  But that can’t be correct.
  
  Ganesh Nana says the govt is practising austerity.
  
  And he’s an authoritative source //
  
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  October 9, 2025 2:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    I see that austerity word used fairly frequently online, by lefties attempting to criticise National.
    
    It merely shows what liars they are. Or pig ignorant as to the actual state of affairs, one or the other .
    
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    October 9, 2025 5:16pm
OlderChas

One of the TV “News Hour” stations last night had an article about the improvement in school attendance and featured comment from one Amberly Caldwell, captioned as Fielding Attendance Advisor. I am presuming that she lives or works in Fielding. But what on earth is an Attendance Advisor? And is it compulsory for them to have rings through their noses and have size and hair that can only remind one of Tiny Tim of “Tiptoe Through the Tulips” fame?
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October 9, 2025 1:48pm
mandk

Wellington City Council have pissed away another $7,000 of rate payers’ money on a painted portrait of the outgoing Mayor, instead of $2,000 on a professional photo: https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360848905/error-leads-7000-painted-mayoral-portrait-tory-whanau-rather-photo

It wouldn’t be so bad if the painting actually bore a resemblance, but it looks like a grumpy pantomime dame.
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October 9, 2025 2:01pm
- AitchW
  
  I think it captures the sneering contempt she has for the voters.
  
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  October 9, 2025 5:10pm
- ISeeRed
  
  With the right prompt, AI could have altered any photo of her and added a painting filter for free.
  
  1 1
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  October 9, 2025 8:50pm
  - NeonTeepee
    
    And a few empty bottles of Gin on the floor
    
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    October 10, 2025 8:40am
Chuck Bird

The hostages could be released as early as Saturday Egyptian time. Trump could get the Nobel Peace Prize.
8 3
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October 9, 2025 2:45pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  I honestly think he should get it at this point.
  However, he’s obsessed with getting it so imagine if they give it to someone else. What’s he got to do next? Solve world hunger? Worth a shot right?
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:11pm
- AitchW
  
  No doubt the Greens and John Minto will be fulsome in their praise of the president…..
  
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  October 9, 2025 3:16pm
  - Biscuit
    
    More end product from a Trump intervention than there has been from any UN action in yonks.
    
    I really hope Mr Trump, and I am no great fan of his, takes the opportunity to withdraw US support for anything to do with that ratbag organisation.
    
    AitchW, the Green Party will probably ‘leak’ Mr Trump’s home addy to the media!
    
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    October 9, 2025 4:19pm
    - AitchW
      
      I’d love to see one of them take a crowbar to his house….
      
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      October 9, 2025 5:09pm
- MCōs
  
  No this year he won’t, the winner is announced tomorrow night.
  Apart from that the expectation of getting the wretched award in the future might force him into concentrating on making this ceasefire work
  
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  October 9, 2025 8:01pm
  - Ghost
    
    Yeah, he won’t get it. Nominations for this year closed January 31
    
    1 0
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    October 9, 2025 8:04pm
Swifty

The pressure is getting to Pelosi:

https://x.com/magadevildog/status/1975997031975211431?s=46

😄
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October 9, 2025 3:01pm
Ghost

No surprise, I thought it would happen when she took her oath

The House has been suspended by Speaker Gerry Brownlee after an unauthorised haka erupted following the conclusion of new MP Oriini Kaipara’s maiden speech.

It follows Kaipara’s address where she paid thanks to those who had experienced the “ache of disconnection” through generations of te reo Māori being discouraged and welcomed its current revitalisation.

Article
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October 9, 2025 3:56pm
- cmm
  
  Another day another death threat.
  
  8 1
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  October 9, 2025 5:27pm
- Eastlander
  
  Perhaps they could be barred for the remainder of the term this time.
  
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  October 9, 2025 5:41pm
- Ghost
  
  Awwww, someone packed a sad and ended their great reset press conference
  
  She asked what their response was to allegations that they ran Te Pāti Māori under a dictatorship model, a claim levelled by Toitu Te Titiri leader Ero Kapa-Kingi, who is also the son of their MP Mariameno Kapa-Kingi.
  
  But Sherman never got an answer. Even though Ngarewa-Packer had begun to respond. Waititi grabbed her arm before storming back to his office.
  
  Article
  
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  October 9, 2025 7:19pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  Expecting another smack on the back of the hand with a limp bus ticket.
  
  The speaker should dock her salary for a month. Te Pati Maori are serial offenders and there should be zero tolerance for their antics for the remainder of this parliament’s term.
  
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  October 9, 2025 7:38pm
  - MCōs
    
    The MPs were not involved with the haka as far as I could see. It was some people in the gallery.
    
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    October 9, 2025 8:10pm
    - MCōs
      
      Not quite right!
      
      2 0
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      October 9, 2025 8:17pm
Ghost

A full emergency has been declared at Christchurch International Airport for an incoming flight this afternoon.

Fire & Emergency NZ, ambulance, police, and airport staff are on standby for the flight.

Article

Flightradar

No sign of what is wrong yet
2 0
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October 9, 2025 3:58pm
- Ghost
  
  Now reported a bird strike on take off
  
  4 0
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  October 9, 2025 4:04pm
  - cmm
    
    You’d hope that by now the industry would have figured out how to smack a bird and keep going…
    
    Maybe talk to the Aussies about Roo bars?
    
    0 2
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    October 9, 2025 5:20pm
rouppe

Watched tv3 news to see how they’d spin the peace deal. A lot of “yeah but…”. Ho hum…

Then it moved to the new TPM MP. Lots of interviews. What I did notice was that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer was wearing a new (to me) piece of greenstone.

It was a star and a crescent. I thought that really odd. Historically, that has large links to Islam…
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October 9, 2025 6:24pm
- Ghost
  
  I don’t recall seeing a pentagram greenstone carving before,
  
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  October 9, 2025 6:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I thought that really odd.
  
  Not odd at all, if you are a follower of the Ratana Church.
  
  A five-pointed star above a crescent moon is the symbol of the Ratana Church.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81tana#:~:text=Symbols,-R%C4%81tana%20Star&text=The%20main%20symbol%20(tohu)%20of,pivotal%20points%20on%20church%20buildings.
  
  It is often seen tattooed on the hands /wrists of adherents.
  
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  October 9, 2025 9:18pm
  - rouppe
    
    Ah, thank you. Didn’t know that.
    
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    October 10, 2025 8:13am

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