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December 23, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 December 2025

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General Debate

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Luke Piewalker

Summary of Political Parties for 2025
Uptick for agree.

National. More efficient socialism but with better roads.
Labour. Talentless and the stench of failure lingers over them.
ACT. Noddy no friends in the media.
NZ First. Will go with Labour if needed 2026.
Greens. Appalling actors looking to virtue signal the next outrage.
Te Pati Maori. There for the sole purpose of making John Tamihere rich.
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December 23, 2025 8:01am
- Christopher Thomson
  
  Everything but the better roads.
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:50am
- R
  
  0National is trying to raise NZ out of the economic and social morass that the past three Labour governments have left the country in; by positively developing the country, which will them provide meaningful employment. Sadly, the MSM, and most social comment, doesn’t support this belts and braces approach, which requires people to take responsibility for their own welfare and lifestyle needs.
  
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  December 23, 2025 10:31am
- Scott
  
  Luke – couldn’t disagree more. Unfortunately there are many NZers who seem very negative and exhibit a pox on all your houses approach.
  National and the coalition has done a lot especially on race relations which for some is their number 1 issue.
  Winston has been excellent in his attacks on wokeness and the radical Maori party.
  Act has had many policy wins and going very well.
  
  In my mind we need to get behind the govt which is doing most things pretty well. A relentlessly negative approach will not help anybody.
  
  Remember under this govt you may get 50% of what you want. Know with absolute certainty that under the other lot you’ll get 100% of what you don’t want.
  
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  December 23, 2025 11:26am
  - rouppe
    
    National and the coalition has done a lot especially on race relations which for some is their number 1 issue.
    
    Not what I’m seeing. Closing the MHA was an efficiency and money saving move, primarily to remove unnecessary duplication, not any other reason.
    Treaty Principles are still embedded everywhere in legislation.
    Public service meetings still waste up to 10% of the available time with karakia.
    Many services still have unintelligible names.
    Services are still provided to Maori in a preferential way. Either via concession rates, or list management. After Labour introduced race based prioritisation of medical waiting lists, I’ve not heard that this practice has actually been stopped.
    
    Winston has been excellent in his attacks on wokeness and the radical Maori party.
    
    Words. What has he actually changed? The only thing he actually did was vote against the TPB.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:44pm
    - Scott
      
      rouppe – words are important. Winston takes on the radical Maori party and gives as good as he gets. That’s important. People criticise Luxon because he doesn’t speak out. Winston, and Shane Jones, do speak out. Noone can criticise them as racist because they’re both Maori.
      
      The other thing a govt does is legislation – 3 waters repealed. Maori health authority repealed. Not sure what’s happening on getting references to the Treaty of Waitangi out of the legislation? Be good to see progress in that one.
      Governments talk and governments legislate. The coalition is doing both on racial issues.
      
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      December 23, 2025 5:34pm
- Notsofast
  
  NZ First never goes with labour 2026 and if they do it is to put the crooked grifting chinese jew back in his box.
  
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  December 23, 2025 11:32am
  - Jack5
    
    Who is Notsofast’s 🙄 crooked grifting chinese jew [sic]?
    
    Peters’s Mum was Scottish and his father was Maori. So surely it can’t be him.
    
    Notsofast, you could at least try to be decent enough to use a capital “C” and a capital “J”.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:19pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      I think the reference is to Willie Jackson
      
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      December 23, 2025 3:59pm
Cassandra

Brian Easton: “Because of the international situation New Zealand is to spend more on the military. The rise is from $3.2b in Labour’s last year to $3.7b in 2030. Even so, as a proportion of GDP, defence spending is falling from 0.75 percent of GDP to 0.66 percent in 2030. Yet Willis highlighted this as an achievement. (Don’t tell Donald Trump.)”

This is appalling. National says it recognises that we’re not pulling our weight and “must do more” and then reduces defence spending from inadequate to laughable. Every one of the countries we ally with has taken concrete steps to contribute in a meaningful way and yet, under a supposedly right-leaning government we’re actually reducing our effort. What planet is National on?

Australia, Japan, Philippines, Singapore etc are all contributing. South Korea and Taiwan obviously have a vital interest. The only way we can maintain the status quo is to deter China by making it clear that we have the capacity to respond to aggression. That means making a meaningful contribution. Three frigates would do it. At a minimum 2%.

I understand the problem. The Government is borrowing to fund consumption. Reducing expenditure and/or raising income are both politically unpalatable. Taxing the rich won’t work.

Who’d want to be a politician? Well, several hundred people actually and that sort of decision – and the sales campaign required – is in the job description.
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December 23, 2025 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Racially NZ military should be 20 % Indian. It won’t even be 1 %. There’s your FTA.
  
  Imagine joining the NZ to fight for Maori special rights and mass third world immigration.
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:08am
- Wandering Star
  
  “The only way we can maintain the status quo is to deter China….”
  
  What about the status quo would require us to increase spending to maintain it?
  
  The most prudent, and far less expensive (you could say “wasteful”) approach would be to ensure good diplomatic relations with China. When you’re such an insignificant nation without any real ability to fight, you have to engage in diplomacy.
  
  Even if China were intent on taking back Taiwan (of which there is little evidence other than State Department bluster) – so what? Why is it essential to NZ that Taiwan be controlled by the US rather than China? Why must we help the US maintain its stranglehold?
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:09am
  - Cassandra
    
    It’s a little more complicated that that, Wandering Star. Note that almost every country in the region does not agree with your approach. But there’s no need for war. We just need China to stay in its lane.
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:36am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    “Why is it essential to NZ that Taiwan be controlled by the US rather than China? “.
    Quite astonishing that you can include a number of fallacies in one short sentence WS.
    Be that as it may, I’m sure you will have made a similar comment about Ukraine and Russia.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:21pm
  - Sir Henry Morgan
    
    Taiwan is not really controlled by the US. It’s a vibrant democracy. (It even has Asia’s biggest pride parade!)
    
    But for people actually living in Taiwan it’s a no brainer that they’d rather keep their democracy, free speech, and so on. The Chinese alternative looks very uninviting.
    
    Why New Zealand should care is another issue, but the NZ politicians and people sure do love banging on about democracy and huma rights and all that jazz, even as they sign FTAs with China. New Zealand was even the first nation to recognize China as a “free market economy” (despite all evidence to the contrary), thus allowing China to join the WTO and so accelerating the hollowing out of industry across the Western world.
    
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    December 23, 2025 2:25pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      “Taiwan is not really controlled by the US. It’s a vibrant democracy.”
      
      What’s the difference? Ever noticed how all of the “democracies” come under the US umbrella, just like all the “communist” societies came under the USSR’s umbrella? Ever noticed how the US lends its military weight to “democracies” usually directed against “undemocratic” states? It’s out of self-interest, not love of sovereignty of the people. “Democracy” has just become short-hand for “US vassal.”
      
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      December 23, 2025 3:22pm
- kowtow
  
  I wonder what we’re doing on the drone front.
  They seem to be the in thing when it comes to this business.
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:10am
  - Michael Johnston
    
    Agreed. Ukraine crippled Russia’s Black Sea fleet with relatively inexpensive naval drones.
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:29am
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/media-centre/news/nz-army-embraces-race-to-latest-drone-technology/
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:11am
    - Sir Henry Morgan
      
      So basically the NZ Army have ordered a remote controlled truck from Toys-R-Us, and figure they can strap enough explosives on it to make the Cook Islanders think twice before trying anything silly?
      
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      December 23, 2025 2:28pm
    - Graeme Hall
      
      “Captain Adams said while the NZ Army currently did not operate FPV systems, their impact on the modern battlefield was clear.”
      
      Seems more lip service than embracing at the moment.
      
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      December 23, 2025 2:54pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Look, think, learn, then act
        
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        December 23, 2025 4:01pm
- amospicton
  
  No-one’s prepared to make the unpopular but necessary calls. Spending on health and education cannot fall. Infrastructure spending is vital. You can’t tax your way to prosperity. The only large lever available is cutting welfare spending. I think that is also ‘kind’ to many recipients who, often unwittingly, see it as a right and a valid lifestyle choice. But what politician has the spine to do this? With a 3-year cycle all you get at re-election time is the misery – the benefits accrue over longer timeframes. In the absence of Seymour having the power it will only happen as a result of genuine crisis.
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:13am
  - Ian Boag
    
    The only large lever available is cutting welfare spending.
    
    I suppose – any idea which bits you would cut and how much it would save? Specifically ….
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:09am
    - RoboRob
      
      Your favourite, Superanuation?
      
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      December 23, 2025 9:19am
      - Ian Boag
        
        My views on the pension are no secret. There is a lot of “we can afford it” as well as “we need to do something about it”, but the suggestions seem to have a lot of “not right now” and “in 10(20?) years time” …
        
        I was actually curious about which bits of other welfare might be cut – by how much – and how much money ($bn) might be saved.
        
        eg When we hear of receptionist jobs that attract 100 applicants it does raise the possibility that there might not be enough jobs to go around. So cutting jobseeker would generate lots of misery.
        
        Anyway – jobseeker is about $4bn, disability about $2bn, sole parent about $2bn, family tax credit about $3bn, accommodation supp about $3bn. The rest are are rats and mice under $1bn. I suppose we could cut them all in half and not touch the pension ….. 🙂 Axing the accommodation supplement would of course put some serious downward pressure on rents which would in turn flow through to some serious downward pressure on values, so probably not a starter.
        
        So it would be good to hear some thoughts on how long this lever is ie which bits of welfare could be cut and how much would it save ….
        
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        December 23, 2025 9:35am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Don’t forget the other atom bomb about to drop.
        
        AI.
        
        Happy holidays!
        
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        December 24, 2025 2:53pm
    - amospicton
      
      The simplest one is gradually raising the retirement age. This is inevitable but needs someone to actually do it. Beyond that I don’t have any detail but I’d start with making work a far more attractive option than welfare dependency. This is the ‘cruel to be kind’ aspect. Giving young people the option of a life of dependency that pays almost as well as working is, superficially kind, in the long run, cruel.
      
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      December 23, 2025 9:23am
      - R
        
        Minimum wage!!! There was absolutely no justification for Ardern and sycophants to so irresponsibly raise the min wage to the level she did; other than for the Marxist political result of more welfare. As a social policy it sent the ABSOLUTELY wrong message to people, particularly to a significant cohort of young people, who are the unfortunate products of poor parenting responsibility.
        
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        December 23, 2025 10:40am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Right on cue, Ian
      
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      December 23, 2025 11:04am
    - mogg
      
      Super for me but not for thee
      
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      December 23, 2025 11:20am
  - kowtow
    
    If war comes the very media who demand all that spending on the weather , school lunches and the plethora of welfare we now have will be the very first and most virulently strident in demanding answers of how could “we” have been so unprepared or not seen the “gathering storm”.
    
    Si vis pacem parabellum.
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:14am
    - R
      
      Kowtow, I am only allowed One Uptick for you.
      
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      December 23, 2025 10:42am
  - artemisia
    
    Cutting welfare spending. The new sanctions require reciprocal responsibilities, and resets should over time improve employability. Months or years on the sofa takes time and effort to turn around, if it ever does.
    
    New Zealand could look back and also at other countries.
    
    Back for example – require liable parent to be named for WINZ (and thence to IRD), cease paying child support from IRD direct to parent, household to be work ready if a further child is born while on benefit.
    
    Other countries for example – limit tax credits to 2 children, require attendance at a specified location for set hours each week. In the UK this resulted in some immediate benefit cancellations likely due to under the counter working. Require set hours of voluntary work for the dole – 15 hours a week in Australia according to rellies in Melbourne that had to do this.
    
    There are some recent NZ initiatives other than sanctions. Not just for welfare recipients but relevant to taxpayer subsidies. Like stopping some double dipping from boarder income. And seems more investigation of some aspects of the estimated $20 billion black and grey economy. Some DOGE kid geniuses would be an asset.
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:33am
    - Ian Boag
      
      require liable parent to be named for WINZ (and thence to IRD), cease paying child support from IRD direct to parent, household to be work ready if a further child is born while on benefit.
      
      I can’t argue with this as a thought, but does anyone have idea of how many $bn might be saved? Would it make a meaningful hole in the deficit? Given that the single parent thingo is about $2bn it’s not going to be a big number in the scheme of things. I know – this is the right thing to do – every little helps .. 🙂
      
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      December 23, 2025 9:50am
      - artemisia
        
        Not only does every little help, but some savings continue for years, even decades so that should be taken into account. Like working age people working and paying tax. Liable parents named and paying child support for years, child support offset against welfare payments that already include children in the household, and child support debts paid (about a billion currently).
        
        Not to mention improved mental health from working, not always I grant you, but if that happens it also can last for years.
        
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        December 23, 2025 10:13am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Art
        
        All noble stuff. Would make a hole in the $2bn that the single parent thing costs. What % do you think it would save? Would the deficit be measurably smaller? This thread started with the notion that cutting welfare costs is the only lever we have to get the deficit down to something meaningful.
        
        So how much money do you think would be saved? Note I am not saying it is a bad idea, but in the financial scheme of things it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.
        
        What about some of the others? The $3bn refund to landlords was arguably money we didn’t have. Ditto for the tax cuts. I’m not into the morality about whether these steps were “right” or not but they generated a significant sum on the “cost” side of the deficit.
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:09pm
      - Taieri
        
        The $3bn refund to landlords was arguably money we didn’t have
        ———–
        
        Refund? How so?
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:35pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        “The $3bn refund to landlords was arguably money we didn’t have”. Correct Ian, the Labour Government never had the money, and nor does the National Party. A couple of things, the $3bn wassn’t annual. Second, reinstating a legitimate business expense is not a “refund”. A refund is more in the nature of Working for Families, where people pay tax on one hand, and are given that tax, and more back on the other.
        Denying a legitimate business expense to one type of business whilst allowing it in others, is not only incredibly stupid, but hopping on to a slippery slope (which expense in which sector which we disapprove of should we disallow next?). There is a reason NZ’s fiscal position has deteriorated so much in the last 8 years. That reason is the last Labour Government. Their gross ineptitude has driven NZ to it’s knees. We have structural deficits forecast by Treasury as far forward as they forecast (to be fair, the previous Labour Government did the same, maybe there is a pattern?). That is not great.
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:43pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @IVV
        
        which expense in which sector which we disapprove of should we disallow next
        
        Maybe get rid of ring-fencing so interest costs on mortgage loans are deductible against all income from all sources. It used to be like that ….
        
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        December 23, 2025 2:03pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Just kidding 🙂
        
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        December 23, 2025 2:20pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        “interest costs on mortgage loans are deductible against all income from all sources”. So deducting a living expense Ian? Maybe the interest on car loan repayments? Any payments whether or not there is a nexus between the expense and earning taxable income?
        
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        December 23, 2025 3:34pm
  - leoj
    
    Not only welfare but also the staffing levels of the public service, especially administration staff.
    
    Doctors, nurses, police, fire, etc – leave well alone.
    Teachers? Not so much. They have failed.
    
    Any funds saved from reducing the public service should go to the health sector.
    
    Super? Increase the qualifying age slowly to 65.25 in 2028, 65.5 in 2029, 65.75 in 2030, 66 in 2031, 66.25 in 2032, 66.5 in 2033, 66.75 in 2034 and 67 in 2035.
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:05am
    - artemisia
      
      Changes to consenting rules will remove a lot of local government roles. And also councils should be taking a good work at the Wellington CC Deloitte’s report that smacked the contracting processes, and reported over 300 roles are not needed.
      
      Central and local layoffs will save taxpayers and ratepayers decent coin, and the dole will be much cheaper than paying wages, leave, Kiwisaver, management layers, accommodation costs etc etc.
      
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      December 23, 2025 10:22am
    - Taieri
      
      Super? Increase the qualifying age slowly
      ————
      
      Design and implement a comprehensive and universal contributory retirement scheme. Compulsory of course.
      
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      December 23, 2025 1:37pm
  - R
    
    Seymour is NOT the silver bullet to NZ’s social and economic problems that some on KB believe him to be. He also believes that he is.
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:24am
    - RoboRob
      
      True. So long as he is dragged down by National and NZF it is impossible for him to make the required systematic changes. But at least he wants to fix the situation as opposed to ALL of the other parties.
      
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      December 23, 2025 11:01am
      - Jack5
        
        Coalition politics makes radical change near-impossible. Yet without MMP, ACT wouldn’t be in Parliament.
        
        It’s unlikely there will be another policy blitz, Roger Douglas-style, within a dominant party.
        
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        December 23, 2025 12:16pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      That is right, he is not the silver bullet, as no one is.
      
      He still gets my vote. He was the only MP at the start of the march in support of Jews here and in Oz.
      
      This government should stop funding NZRWA now.
      
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      December 23, 2025 12:27pm
      - AitchW
        
        UNRWA?
        
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        December 23, 2025 12:42pm
  - Isobar
    
    I agree. I think super has to change. Gradually increasing the age wont be fast enough to deal with our structual deficit.
    
    A age increase alongside a means test needs to happen. Its crazy we are paying welfare millionaires yet we cannot build hospitals.
    
    Not easy, not popular, but is the right decsion.
    
    Until we are ready to make the hard decisions we as a nation will simply not have the ability to buy nice things, like bigger miltary spending, bigger and better roads, hospitals etc.
    
    Do we want to be a Nation that has options, or will we keep on the path of managed decline?
    
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    December 23, 2025 12:17pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      No no no. Paid taxes all my life. I’m working and my taxes pay for my super. Muldoon made a solemn promise. It’s an entitlement not a benefit. My taxes have been contributing for my old age.
      
      I think that covers most of it 🙂
      
      Back when the age went from 60 to 65, it was done by raising the age by 6 months a year for 10 years. That went OK without much fuss. In a rational world that might look like a plan that worked and could be done again …. that would be taking the age to 70 in 10 years time. Worked before …
      
      Anyway I was 80 last week – have been on the age benefit for 15 years now. Wife also. Nothing anyone does will affect me. Our taxes are more than our pension although I guess that our taxes – like evryone else’s are supposed to pay for a lot of other things too.
      
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      December 23, 2025 1:17pm
      - Taieri
        
        have been on the age benefit for 15 years now. Wife also. Nothing anyone does will affect me.
        —————-
        
        Nothing like a touch of hypocrisy…
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:39pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Taeri
        
        What’s your problem? You think I don’t deserve the age benefit? I’m over 65, NZ born NZ citizen, paid lots of tax yadda yadda yadda.
        
        It’s there – I take it – what I do with it is my business. I think paying it to me is bananas but who am I to question the collective wisdom of the nation? I’m just doing my bit to maintain the stability of the deficit 🙂
        
        Someone has to do it.
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:52pm
    - artemisia
      
      Isobar, when you say ‘means test’ do you mean income or assets and income?
      
      Income is fairly straightforward. Assets less so especially for the wealthy who have quite a range of options.
      
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      December 23, 2025 2:06pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Like you say, income is easy. Assets are harder, but the Australians don’t seem to have any trouble doing it …. Income-testing would be a good start.
        
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        December 23, 2025 2:15pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        For the record – here are the Aussie asset testing rules … good ole ChatGPT
        
        2. Asset Limits (as of mid-2024)
        The pension gradually reduces if your assets exceed a certain threshold.
        For example (approximate figures — these change regularly):
        
        Situation Homeowner threshold (full pension) Non-homeowner threshold (full pension)
        Single ~$314,000 ~$566,000
        Couple (combined) ~$470,000 ~$722,000
        If your assets exceed these amounts, your pension reduces by $3.00 per fortnight for every $1,000 above the limit (that is, an annual reduction rate of roughly $78 per $1,000).
        
        There’s also an upper cut-off, after which you’re not eligible at all — e.g., around $686,000 for a single homeowner (mid‑2024).
        
        🏠 3. Special Note — Homeowners vs Non‑homeowners
        Because your principal home is exempt, non‑homeowners are allowed more assets before their pension is reduced, to account for the need to rent or buy housing.
        
        🔄 4. How It’s Assessed
        When applying, you provide information on all assets. Centrelink may:
        
        Cross‑check values with financial institutions
        Estimate “deemed income” from investments (for the income test)
        Ask for revaluations over time (e.g., if property or market values change)
        ⚖️ 5. Interaction with the Income Test
        Centrelink calculates your pension entitlement under both tests:
        
        Income test — based on what you earn or are deemed to earn
        Asset test — based on what you own
        You get the lower payment result of the two.
        🧮 6. Example
        A single homeowner with:
        
        Home (exempt)
        $400,000 in savings/investments
        ➡ Above the full‑pension threshold by ~$86,000
        Reduction: $86 × $3 = $258 per fortnight
        If the maximum pension is around $1,116 per fortnight (mid‑2024), it would reduce to roughly $858 per fortnight.
        
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        December 23, 2025 2:36pm
  - leoj
    
    A good start would be to stop sending $2.4 billion per year to the Paris Accord.
    
    That is the biggest scam of the current century.
    
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    December 23, 2025 2:56pm
  - virtualmark
    
    The largest single line item in the Government’s accounts is superannuation.
    
    The simplest way to make a material improvement in the Government’s financial situation is to (re-)impose means testing on Super.
    
    The next simplest way to make a material improvement in the Government’s financial situation is to raise the retirement age (well, more accurately, raise the age that you can receive Super from). But it will take something like 10 years after that change is made before you see a material benefit in the Government’s books.
    
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    December 23, 2025 4:53pm
    - artemisia
      
      Agree, past time for a superannuation change. However, there’s the multiplier effect to take into account as most of that money circulates in New Zealand.
      
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      December 23, 2025 6:00pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Artie
        
        I have to hand it to you – heaps of blather about the billions that will be saved if we cut this benefit or that and the billions more in the future. But you don’t ever do any numbers – just blather … throw in some stuff about the multiplier effect …. 🙂
        
        So for your next bright idea, maybe try some numbers. The lets-beat-on-single mothers thing might save 0.5 billion. Might be a good idea (every little helps) but won’t do much about the deficit …
        
        Common sense says if you need to save some costs you start by looking at the biggest cost items. That’s the pension – $22bn. If it was income tested so that it was all gone for people who had $100k income, that would raise $2bn give or take a bit. Just like that and from people who wouldn’t suffer much.
        
        Interesting to look at the Oz approach – if a couple have assets over $700k (plus a home) the pension is all gone. An interesting thought ….
        
        And if the age was raised at 6 months/year starting now that would be a move in the right direction as well.
        
        But don’t ruin your story by using numbers 🙂
        
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        December 23, 2025 8:02pm
    - slijmbal
      
      “The largest single line item in the Government’s accounts is superannuation.”
      
      actually largest item is health
      
      However, 50% of health costs are estimated to be spent on 65+ so largest costs do go against us oldies.
      
      Means testing never brings anywhere near as much as is initially estimated. Partly because it costs a fortune to administer and there are always loopholes. It also has been shown to act as a deterrent to those who might save smaller amounts. It’s done for fairness not for revenue and I doubt it will materially affect the bottom line.
      
      I’m a broken record on the fact that health will end up the being our biggest cost we can’t control. We’ll need some sort of health insurance along the lines of the Dutch one.
      
      We also don’t do pension savings properly and need something like the Ozzie system alongside retirement age increases. Definitely compulsory.
      
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      December 24, 2025 6:20pm
- cmm
  
  I think it absolutely laughable that anyone thinks 3 frigates is going to deter China.
  
  Cassandra and I disagree on an approach to military development: Cassandra wants to send three frigates to paddle around in the Asian Seas, I think we should focus on own-shores protection.
  
  However there is one thing that we both agree on: Sub-0.75% spending is laughable and achieves nothing.
  
  Switzerland is the model country for a country that does own-shores protection and their systems are starting to crumple at slightly below 1%. I would think they need a decade of 2% spending to reach the levels they had in the 1980s to 2000s. They managed to keep going at 1%.
  
  No matter the approach taken (expeditionary or own-shores defence) we really need a solid decade of 2-3% – followed by at least 1.5% sustained- to build and maintain anything that is beyond a joke.
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    I think, cmm, that it’s laughable that you seem to think that NZ will be doing this on its own. It is in our interests to work with like-minded countries and to make a reasonable contribution to a collective effort. Switzerland is not a model for NZ. I have explained this before and you continue to misinterpret it.
    
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    December 23, 2025 8:28am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘collective effort’
      
      Iran , Russia , China , Yemen , Lebanon.and many more besides.
      
      Where’s the UN when you need it .
      
      Oh that’s right , shouting at cardon dioxide and methane , cos global warming.
      
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      December 23, 2025 8:47am
    - Albie
      
      Cass, for a bit of fun I just asked Grok what the life expectancy of a modern frigate would be in a war in 2025. It gave a frigates survival in days, perhaps weeks at best when up against drones, advanced anti ship missiles and submarines. Something to thing about when your spending $500m a pop.
      
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      December 23, 2025 8:56am
      - Michael Johnston
        
        $500 million would buy a lot of naval drones.
        
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        December 23, 2025 9:31am
      - mogg
        
        Ukraine unmanned sea drones are sinking Russian black fleet ships 1500 kilometres away in the med South of Greece.
        
        7 0
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        December 23, 2025 11:25am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Who’s going to pay for the cleanup? Greece won’t be too happy, and who can blame them?
        
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        December 23, 2025 12:37pm
  - Quail
    
    CMM,
    Switzerland apparently trusts and encourages its populace to become competent , careful and responsible with firearm ownership as.part pf its defence budget
    NZ on the other hand is rapidly reducing private ownership of firearms, and increasing public( police ) access to firearms.
    A general military training regime (with firearms) is something that could help NZ on many fronts , and increase the spending on defence in the process.
    It should be noted that there is real difficulty in supplying personnel for military work.
    The Navy has even had to mothball ships because of difficulty in manning them.
    Other benefits of this approach could include increasing the capacity of assisting the control of vertebrate pests , avoiding the mass use of poisons for control of same.
    The lack of trust now growing between Governance and the NZ populace would probably be reversed.
    Am interested in any comments!
    
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    December 23, 2025 8:45am
    - Toes on the nose
      
      Pretty much agree,, when I was young I said to a Swiss guy “oh you’re neutral= into peace= have no army”. Wow did he shoot me down. “Ve haf very strong Army and about 2 years of compulsory military service, no one fuck with us”. That and all the despots would lose their money.
      
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      December 23, 2025 9:57am
      - Paulus
        
        And they even keep their rifles at home, after Compulsory Military Service, and they remain in Reserve all their lives.
        In some cases their rank places them socially, especially if Commissioned.
        Like the Mafia of Switzeraland.
        I worked for the Swiss for some 8 years in London and Switzerland many years ago.
        
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        December 23, 2025 3:32pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Out of curiosity, what’s the Muslim population of Switzerland?
      
      In all the stories emerging from Europe about the waves of immigration from the Muslim world (and Africa), offhand Switzerland seldom rates a mention.
      
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      December 23, 2025 11:09am
      - Taieri
        
        what’s the Muslim population of Switzerland?
        ———–
        
        Approx. 5.5% of the total population.
        
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        December 23, 2025 1:42pm
      - Sir Henry Morgan
        
        Switzerland has been having its own issues with hordes of Muslims and Africans, including misbehavior in public pools (i.e. sexual harassment, rape, the usual stuff).
        
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        December 23, 2025 2:38pm
  - Philview
    
    China’s focus is on aligning with subversive voices within New Zealand. Hence we see a strong anti Western narrative pushed by various groups in the country. We aren’t even pushing back hard against the anti Western narrative.
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:02am
  - MCōs
    
    New Zealand is nothing like Australia, Japan, Philippines, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan or any other country you care to mention; especially not Taiwan
    We are unique stuck out here effectively defenceless, which is why we’re always clung onto firstly Britain and more lately the US by pitching in with their wars when they had nothing to do with us on the tacit understanding that those buggers would cast a friendly eye in our direction if needed
    Well, we can forget about Britain, both militarily and trade wise and who knows with the USA. Changes every five fucking minutes with whosoever has Trump’s ear over there
    
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    December 23, 2025 9:35am
    - kowtow
      
      You are of course wrong .
      
      You totally ignore our historical , legal, defence and constitutional ties to Britain and Imperial defence policy ( that also applied to Australia) that the Royal Navy would always be powerful enough to protect the Empire , even in these very distant seas.
      
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      December 23, 2025 9:41am
      - MCōs
        
        All that went out the window on 10-July 1985
        
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        December 23, 2025 10:31am
    - Gussy Fink-Nottle
      
      Subsequent US administrations won’t be changing Trump’s national security strategy much.
      Get used to it.
      
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      December 23, 2025 10:23am
      - MCōs
        
        Just as I suspected
        So in the unlikely event China or some other country demands something not in our interest the USA will turn a blind eye
        
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        December 23, 2025 10:41am
    - mogg
      
      The UK has four nuclear submarines which are active and four more Astute class under construction, they are also partnered with Australia to build their own nuclear submarines deterrence,
      The Chinese are not very happy about it, how is this not helping NZ security.
      
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      December 23, 2025 1:32pm
- Wayne L Sexton
  
  The country is already 30% foreign born, people turning up with guns isn’t going to change much.
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:42am
  - MCōs
    
    I think you’re looking at the situation from the wrong perspective. Currently whitey is a minority in the NZ Army.
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:01am
    - AitchW
      
      Nothing new there. I was in the TA in the early 80s, mostly Maori and PI then, esp in infantry.
      
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      December 23, 2025 12:43pm
      - MCōs
        
        The point being people are attracted to whatever occupation suits them.
        In wartime, for example WWII, it became quickly apparent that the same applies and within a very short time conscription was implemented to make up the numbers.
        Btw
        Conscription didn’t apply to Maori
        
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        December 23, 2025 4:13pm
      - Jack5
        
        Cossie’s conscription didn’t apply to Maori …
        
        Conscription of non-Maori males for World War 1 was introduced in 1916. It was later extended to Maori in the district of the Waikato-Maniapoto land district, because it had supplied fewer volunteers.
        
        Te Ara, the national encylopedia, reports that by 1919 only 74 Maori conscripts had gone to camp out of a total of 552 men called up; 111 Maori had been arrested for resisting conscription, with warrants out for another 100.
        
        In World War 2, Maori volunteered strongly. In 1942, all Mori registered for overseas service or for the Territorials were called up and posted to units stationed near their homes.
        
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        December 23, 2025 9:47pm
- G152
  
  Does this mean our Air Force will actually get jet aircraft capable of air defence instead of being a parliamentary airline??????
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:04am
  - peterwn
    
    They do occasional work for others – like transferring most dangerous and notorious prisoners for Corrections.
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:04am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Funny that, because they stated they would put 10 billion into the defence forces over 10 years how doers that account for 500 million a year?
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:51am
  - Ghost
    
    $12 billion over the next 4 years
    
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/multi-billion-dollar-defence-plan-unveiled
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:02am
- Handyman
  
  My suggestion to Peters…
  Get the US to agree to a deal that New Zealand’s “defence” budget can be used to keep Pacific nations on side to stop China’s long march into the Pacific. Look how cheaply the Cook Islands were bought by China.
  New Zealand is in a prime position to work with Pacific Nations in a way that US military and money cannot.
  Oh, and stop sinking navy ships on their reefs.
  
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  December 23, 2025 10:37am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Does contributing to the defence of Ukraine count as Defence spending?
  
  If it doesn’t, it should.
  
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  December 23, 2025 11:03am
- rouppe
  
  I don’t understand this fixation with frigates.
  
  I see that the German navy will acquire American MQ-9B SeaGuardian drones, and abandon the Eurodrone programme which is over time, over budget, and inferior. It also integrates better with Posieden aircraft. Which we have.
  
  What’s our use case? Large maritime area during peacetime. Threats from illegal fishing, and maybe unannounced visits from the Chinese Navy.
  
  A squadron of MQ-9B’s would cover that area better and more cheaply. Any illegal fishing boat refusing to comply with orders to proceed to a port gets sunk with a cheap missile. Only one. Survivors can drown. Trump has shown this can be done.
  
  During wartime, our frigates would be less useful than those same drones doing surveillance and land strikes.
  
  “SeaGuardian is designed to fly over the horizon via satellite for over 30 hours (depending on configuration) in all types of weather and safely integrate into civil airspace, enabling joint forces and civil authorities to deliver real-time situational awareness anywhere in the maritime domain—day or night.”
  
  Perfect. 30 hours in the air. USD33 million unit cost. Cheaper to run than a frigate. USD150k to sink that fishing boat, drug boat, whatever. Integration with sonar buoys to detect submarines. It’s all winning as far as I can see, and we get them a darn sight quicker than any frigate.
  
  Our surface navy can then move to more coast guard spec boats at much, much lower cost for physical interdiction.
  
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  December 23, 2025 2:15pm
- Paulus
  
  Consumption has been created because Labour Governments principally have given us one of the highest Minimum Wages in the World base on relative purchasing power parity
  For every time the Minimum Wage goes up so do all others in parallel, and the Unions love it.
  
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  December 23, 2025 3:25pm
Simon

450 Indians commit driver licence fraud and it’s tolerated by the govt. They of course should have been deported. Instead govt dealings with FTA with India was more important. That is NZ’s western standards of behaviour lowered to third world standards. This is what Indian FTA is about third world NZ.

Also without mass migration from India to date over last 5 years then no FTA. FTA for India imigration is at the heart of the deal.
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December 23, 2025 8:04am
- Sir Henry Morgan
  
  Yes. I don’t understand why foreign criminals never get deported. Instead you read about them in the newspaper a couple of years later, as their next round of crimes eventually get prosecuted.
  
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  December 23, 2025 2:41pm
cmm

I’m sure that everyone, including myself, has been forced by their parents to make a humiliating apology that was not really an apology.

Now the IPCA are doing the same with the police but only when forced to do so under threats of exposure by the media.

Come on, let’s be honest here. An “official apology” is not an apology.

Are the IPCA really there to hold police accountable or are they just there patting people on the head and giving them a cup of tea so they “feel heard”?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360915244/detectives-mistake-and-promised-police-apology-didnt-come-until-stuff-got-involved
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December 23, 2025 8:25am
mandk

Winston Peters, the xenophobe charlatan, is completely wrong in opposing the FTA with India, just as he was completely wrong to oppose the FTA with China in 2008.

China is now NZ largest market, with $21 billion exports annually and a trade surplus of $3.5 billion.
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December 23, 2025 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  I see he’s making a play of opposing it cos visas.
  
  Question the media need to put to him and anyone potentially voting NZF off the back of this is , how many Chinese /Indian/Philippine visas have been issued while he’s been in various Cabinets.
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:35am
- Toes on the nose
  
  As much as I like Matua Shane I don’t trust Winston not to go with labtards.
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:59am
- RoboRob
  
  He is playing politics. He knows the FTA will pass regardless of NZF. So he is safe to oppose a policy he would likely otherwise vote for. In opposing it he gains support from the 20+ percent of NZers (at a guess) that oppose immigration. Smart politics.
  
  Still dont like Winston but he is by far the smartest politician in the current ‘talent’ pool.
  
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  December 23, 2025 11:04am
- Jack5
  
  There’s bugger-all for New Zealand in the proposed free trade agreement with India, except tens of thousands of Indian immigrants, initially or supposedly, on short-term😉visas.
  
  I posted on Kiwiblog yesterday a list of India’s main imports. Nothing that relates to NZ. Our ace export, milk, is all but shut out.
  
  I hope Peters is able to nix the proposed FTA with India.
  
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  December 23, 2025 12:26pm
  - mandk
    
    I expect you said the same about the FTA with China.
    
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    December 23, 2025 2:25pm
    - Jack5
      
      India’s got a snowball’s chance in hell of being as important in business to New Zealand as China and Australia are.
      
      The CER with Australia remains NZ’s biggest trade agreement.
      
      Here’s what the Indian business publication, Business Today says about the FTA with NZ:
      
      ” … key farm and sensitive products have been kept outside the deal, a move aimed at protecting domestic [i.e. Indian] farmers and vulnerable sectors even as the pact opens wide market access for Indian exports.”
      
      It also says:
      
      “The agreement also delivers New Zealand’s most ambitious services offer in any of its FTAs to date, with India securing commitments across IT and IT-enabled services, professional services, education, financial services, tourism, construction and other business services, opening new avenues for Indian service suppliers and high-skill employment.”
      
      And:
      
      “The FTA provides improved entry and stay provisions for Indian professionals, students and youth, including work opportunities during studies, post-study work pathways, dedicated visa arrangements and a Working Holiday visa framework. It also opens skilled employment pathways through a new Temporary Employment Entry Visa, with a quota of 5,000 visas at any given time and stays of up to three years.”
      
      In India’s Economic Times, Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal says the FTA protects Indian farmers’ interests.
      
      https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/economy/story/agriculture-protected-what-india-kept-out-of-the-new-zealand-fta-507650-2025-12-22
      
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      December 23, 2025 3:42pm
Chuck Bird

What makes Islam so different

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C2657980978
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December 23, 2025 9:05am
MCōs

Just listened to Chris Rea singing Driving Home for Christmas.
It has the line ‘It’s going to take some time, but I’ll get there’
Well, not this time. He died yesterday
I always thought that song sounded melancholy.
https://youtu.be/DDt3u2Ev1cI?si=macsRHubV2_5Fq9Q
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December 23, 2025 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  According to the UK Daily Telegraph under Labour proposed Employment Rights Act workers will be able to object to third party harasment whereby, for example pub landlords will be obliged to prevent pub goers from singing such songs as ;
  
  Baby It’s Cold Outside ; misogyny.
  
  Do they know it’s Christmas ; stereotypes the African continent .
  
  Jingle Bells ; racist origins cos first performed in “blackface” in Boston 1857.
  
  And if you think it can’t get any nuttier there the Brighton and Hove museum is caught up in a woke controversy from 2023 where they claimed Santa is too white and judgemental and should be decolonised.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15403877/Father-Christmas-white-no-right-judge-children-naughty-nice-says-woke-museum.html
  
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  December 23, 2025 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    But on a positive note, some pubs won’t serve Labour MPs
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2025/dec/21/pubs-bar-politicians-business-rates-backlash-rural-communities
    
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    December 23, 2025 11:48am
Philview

At the risk of sounding harsh, the story was very lacking in concrete information that I could almost imagine it is fictitious. An unnamed person was duped by an unnamed lawyer and an unnamed police officer has apologised and Stuff are the hero of the story.
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December 23, 2025 9:12am
sungsamning

https://spectator.org/the-fulton-county-2020-election-bombshell/
The Fulton County 2020 Election Bombshell.
If you have struggled to find any reason to support the Democratic Party, you are by no means alone. A new Quinnipiac poll revealed last week that 73 percent of voters disapprove of the way the Democrats in Congress are handling their job. Yet, somehow, the party’s candidates managed to overperform its 2024 margins in all five House special elections this year. How did they work this miracle? One clue can perhaps be found in the recent revelations about election “irregularities” in Fulton County, Georgia. During a recent hearing of the Georgia State Election Board (SEB), an attorney for the county admitted that 315,000 illegally certified votes were included in the final results of the 2020 election.
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December 23, 2025 9:30am
- Lance
  
  Or they HATE what the the GoP are up to with supporting wholesale Trump incompetence. Even the dead dog that the Dems are make for a better option. Trying to frame this as fraud is pathetic, although standard BS from this cabal.
  
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  December 23, 2025 3:04pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Facts and evidence don’t respect opinions.
    
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    December 23, 2025 5:55pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Qdppy5xNQ
They Lied About Turning Point: Vance Exposes the Real Operation.
In this episode, Barbara Boyd provides an in-depth analysis of Vice President JD Vance’s speech at the Amfest Conference of Turning Point USA. She highlights the intense psychological warfare operations aimed at dismantling the coalition that elected Donald Trump, the exploitation of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, and the implications of Hollywood’s involvement in intelligence operations against Trump. Boyd also delves into the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk and the strategic responses to ongoing psy-war tactics leading up to the midterms. Subscribe to learn more about these critical issues. [Its not Conspiracies RUs. I’m not convinced about the nuclear fusion stuff though.]
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December 23, 2025 9:36am
- Philview
  
  My wife and children spent a fair bit of time on social media platforms and I can see the scale of attacks going on against Trump, Vance, Erica Kirk etc. I wonder why no people associated to the Democrats are being targeted in such a way so it is obviously a campaign. A typical scenario is a short video discussing the positioning of Erica Kirk’s hand on the back of Vance’s head. In real time it was a split second cuddle but gets washed through social media into a long cuddle followed by further narrative that Vance’s marriage is over. The targeting of Erica Kirk in this way feels evil to me.
  
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  December 23, 2025 12:08pm
  - Ghost
    
    Do you not see the likewise attacks against democrats? Both sides are as bad as each other
    
    5 8
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    December 23, 2025 12:16pm
    - sungsamning
      
      Wrong, the Dems are a lot worse. There is no decadence they won’t excuse. And no limit to their excuses.
      
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      December 23, 2025 5:58pm
      - Ghost
        
        they are just as bad as each other. Let’s see Joe Biden is a pedophile, hunter was a pedophile who fucked obama’s underage daughter. Republicans even showed explicit photos of hunter during hearings. I could be here all day listing the crap both sides throw at each other, they are as bad as each other. If you think otherwise you aren’t paying attention
        
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        December 23, 2025 6:10pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Yes, just the loathsome left up to their usual tricks. Just another day with y in it.
    
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    December 23, 2025 5:57pm
- Lance
  
  I guess Trump et al are not involved with subterfuge. They are just pissing on the USA’a allies, screwing over the farmers with idiotic tariffs on basic needs etc in public and up front.
  What could go wrong?
  
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  December 23, 2025 3:09pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Those tariffs have provided a substansial dividend check for each citizen. Some ‘allies’ need to stand on their own two feet. They won’t ignore farmers. They need the farm vote to retain the red states.
    
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    December 23, 2025 6:02pm
Jethrod

3 days ago (20 December) there was a debate put up called “Depressing”.
In it there was a comment from Heath Mayo on X asking a few questions and giving answers from the American public.
Some of the questions were:-
Did the 1969 moon landings happen?
Was the holocaust exaggerated?
Was the 2020 presidential election rigged?
Was Covid leaked from China?
Were the 9/11 attacks orchestrated?
Do childhood vaccines cause autism?
Some of the questions I have abbreviated.

I figured there must be someone on Kiwiblog who would know how to ask AI these vital questions and see what the answers were.
Is that possible?.
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December 23, 2025 10:26am
- Ghost
  
  Here
  
  https://copilot.microsoft.com/shares/1gFPyB6PM4Twah16eBxHr
  
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  December 23, 2025 10:32am
  - Jethrod
    
    Unfortunately I have an intense dislike of AI.
    I believe the near future generations will look back at the early 2000’s and say “what were they thinking”
    I was at a street party on Sunday and a woman there is an English teacher who makes a point when teaching of a study into AI. She makes a statement which is then applied somehow to AI. The pupils then decern the differences between the 2 statements.
    The teacher then has feedback from the class who say that generally the AI is gobbilygook. It reinforced to the class of the dangers of AI.
    This is a Year 12 or 13 class in a decile 10 school.
    
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    December 23, 2025 10:48am
    - Ghost
      
      like many things it has its good and bad. It will play a significant part in space travel, it already is. It will, is making significant advances in health
      
      We’re in the infancy of ai,it’s going to have issues.
      
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      December 23, 2025 11:35am
- Handyman
  
  Do not expect AI to provide the truth; it proves the majority of the internet’s opinion, weighted for “authoritive” sources. Different AI weight these sources differently.
  
  The scientific evidence for covid ex Wuhan is overwhelming but still politically sensitive.
  
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  December 23, 2025 10:52am
  - cmm
    
    AI does not provide opinion or anything. It has no “thinking”. It has no “knowledge”. It has no emotions.
    
    All it does is match one set of input bits to some output bits. It does not know what those bits mean.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:00pm
    - greybeard
      
      Exactly. A glorified , more granular Google.
      
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      December 23, 2025 4:44pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    And of course once Trump got into power, Zuckerberg in an arse covering move, admitted on record that the Biden / Harris Administration put enormous pressure on him to use Facebook (AI) to censor the 2020 election, the Covid response, and more.
    
    Don’t expect AI to be neutral or sentient.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:20pm
- RoboRob
  
  Its kind of a waste of time. You will either get a summation of the majority view OR you will get the whatever the developers decided their AI should respond to such questions.
  
  Looking at Ghosts results posted above, I would say the devs have been in play here as, with the huge number of conspiracy sites, I would have expected at least some ‘politcally incorrect’ response. The Covid response is a good example. I would have thought, outside certain politics, the majority view is that its more likely then not COVID orginated in China. Co Pilot cleverly words its response as ‘global scientific and intelligence communities have not reached a unanimous conclusion’. Of course they haven’t and never will, as at least the Chinese scientists will never be allowed to say it orignated in a lab.
  
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  December 23, 2025 11:12am
  - JackRabbit
    
    …the Chinese scientists will never be allowed to say it orignated in a lab…
    
    Or a lab under Fauci’s control.
    Or that ground zero was actually the Wuhan World Military Games.
    Or that the released bio agent was no match for the human immune system.
    Or that the entire ruse was setup to sell vaccines.
    
    AI will say anything, except where the truth when it contradicts the desired narratives.
    
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    December 23, 2025 1:25pm
- JackRabbit
  
  @Jethrod
  
  It is waste of time, because sensitive subjects are always ring fenced.
  
  But if you must try, ask questions as if you are a ‘Blade Runner’ and the AI a “Replicant”. i.e. You have to trick it, and catch it in a lie.
  
  And if you ask Roy Batty about the turtle in the desert that is upside down, be sure to wear a bullet proof vest.
  
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  December 23, 2025 1:32pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

A canal in Shropshire has emptied out due a massive failure of the embankment.

Police are looking for Feathers McGraw.

http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2lvq0yk9dko
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December 23, 2025 12:45pm
- pb
  
  I remember making a clay play dam in a small creek, when I was a kid. It built up slowly to about half a metre of water, leaking constantly, but we toiled to fill the leaks. When it finally let go, I began to understand the wrath of god.
  
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  December 23, 2025 2:15pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    Building dams was just the most fun summer thing. Weren’t those such great times though!
    
    I am sure the weather was much better too; sunshine and hot all day every day. And it never rained or blew…..or is that just selective memory and nostalgia?
    
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    December 23, 2025 5:20pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

In the UK, a husband and 5 other men have been charged with sex offences against his ex-wife.

What’s unusual is that the race of the five men have been reported.

“Norman Macksoni, 47, a black British man of Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire …” etc

I don’t think I’ve seen that before.

http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78vgm0e3zzo
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December 23, 2025 12:52pm
- rouppe
  
  I’ll believe the BBC is unbiased in its reporting when I see any offenders being described as immigrant, asylum seeker, Syrian, Sudanese etc.
  
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  December 23, 2025 2:25pm
  - MCōs
    
    Why not chuck in Jewish, Manchester United supporter, left handed, or something that you might find uncomfortable?
    
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    December 23, 2025 6:29pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      MCōs do you think culture/ideology (or sub-cultures) might play a part in why certain groups rank a LOT higher in the crime stats? Do you not think the masses notice these disproportionate elevations in violent offending amongst certain groups? I realise the left gets upset when people notice these realities. It messes up their fantasies about all people on earth being one big lovey dovey happy family who can blend anywhere at any time.
      
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      December 24, 2025 3:40pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360918160/cyclists-crash-wet-road-during-rain-soaked-bike-race

“This is the shocking moment dozens of riders crashed on a wet road during the Guizhou Park Provincial International Road Cycling Race in China on October 17.”

Well whoop-de-doo !
Stuff has managed to find an article which is over 2 months old, from China, about some cyclists, some of whom crash in the rain.

Why on earth does Stuff think that this could be of any interest to anyone in NZ, in December ? Or any month? Or ever ?
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December 23, 2025 6:40pm
Tauhei Notts

Anecdotal! Yeah I know it.
BUT, I think the retail figures to be released in about 13 days time will show a big increase in retail sales. The traffic jams in retail car parks seem to me to be unprecedented.
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December 23, 2025 8:44pm
- Ghost
  
  I think it will as well. I was across the road from the warehouse today, for about 20 minutes I watched cars driving around and around waiting for car parks, same thing at mitre 10 and Bunnings. Saw people with trailer loads of outdoor furniture. Parents with large amounts of presents. People were buying up big
  
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  December 23, 2025 8:59pm
Inandout

After WW2 ended in Europe the yanks left behind hundreds of thousands of military vehicles in various countries, the UK holding 470,000. This video is a fascinating insight into what eventually happened to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ueEls6vjA4
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December 23, 2025 10:56pm

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