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April 6, 2026 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 06 April 2026

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General Debate

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Cassandra

Trump’s 15-point plan to end Iran war (or “all hell will break loose “).
1 – Iran must dismantle its existing nuclear capabilities
2 – Iran must commit never to pursue nuclear weapons
3 – There will be no uranium enrichment on Iranian territory
4 – Iran must hand its stockpile of some 450 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60 per cent to the International Atomic Energy Agency in the near future, in a timetable to be agreed
5 – The Natanz, Isfahan and Fordow nuclear facilities must be dismantled
6 – The IAEA, the UN’s nuclear watchdog, must be granted full access, transparency and oversight inside Iran
7 – Iran must abandon its regional proxy “paradigm”
8 – Iran must cease the funding, direction and arming of its regional proxies
9 – The Strait of Hormuz must remain open and function as a free maritime corridor
10 – Iran’s missile programme must be limited in both range and quantity, with specific thresholds to be determined at a later stage
11 – Any future use of missiles would be restricted to self-defence

In return, Iran would benefit as follows:
12 – Iran would receive a full lifting of sanctions imposed by the international community
13 – The US would assist Iran in advancing its civilian nuclear programme, including electricity generation at the Bushehr nuclear plant
14 – The so-called ‘snapback’ mechanism, which allows for the automatic re-imposition of sanctions if Iran fails to comply, would be removed
The 15th and final point was not reported. State visit to US by a mullah? We won’t assassinate Mojtaba?
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April 6, 2026 8:00am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Trumpy’s foul mouthed tirade indicates that he’s losing his grip.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:07am
- Simon
  
  Iran would have to be insane to believe Israel.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:10am
- David Garrett
  
  Cass: There is no way in hell Iran will comply with even half of those demands…We – the rest of the world – are in for real trouble because of the Toddler in the White House methinks
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:20am
  - septic skeptic
    
    But Trump told us over a week ago that they were definitely talking to the right people and that negotiations were going very well. Maybe Trump is so full of sh1t even his eyes are brown.
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:24am
  - SGA
    
    And, David, who in their right mind would trust Trump to stick to any promises or agreements that he made?
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:33am
    - R
      
      SGA…who would trust?…..anyone who understands the implications of military geopolitics; and the consequences of ‘sweeping problems under the carpet’. As has been the practice of the so called UNITED NATIONS pontificators.
      A decade down the century, people will be pleased that TRUMP saw through the UN incompetence, and took the bull by the horns; …..or maybe the camels!
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:08pm
      - SGA
        
        Not sure how that addresses what I said, R. I get it, you’re a fanboy, but he changes in the wind.
        
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        April 6, 2026 1:22pm
  - judith8409121
    
    toddler in Iran i think you meant. or dictator in Iran i think you meant. Its the Iranian dictator that has funded terrorism abound the world and funded killing people in other countries and mass murders in his own country.
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:49am
    - Wayne1749
      
      No evidence of ‘funded terrorism around the world’. All the indiscriminate mass murders like Bondi Beach, 9-11 etc are carried out by Sunni radicals, not Shia.
      
      Trump just admitted that the US armed protesters in January, and Israel also has. There were no mass killings of protesters in Iran. There was an insurrection in which thousands were killed on BOTH sides. The violence was fomented by the US and Israel.
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:24pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I suspect that you’re right, DG, but it’s hard to see how it stops. “The toddler” is supported by some powerful figures, including MBS. I think this had to happen eventually. Iran has been disruptive for 40 years now.
    
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    April 6, 2026 9:02am
    - David Garrett
      
      MBS??
      
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      April 6, 2026 9:06am
      - MCōs
        
        He’s the big cheese in Saudi Arabia, which splashes huge amounts of money on a pretty ordinary military
        
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        April 6, 2026 9:10am
      - David Garrett
        
        Oh yes..of course; thanks
        
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        April 6, 2026 9:29am
    - KH
      
      Cassandra:
      Iran has been disruptive ??
      How ? Actually.
      If you do a comparison the real mad bombers have been the USA and Israel. By a long mile and for decades. And in lots of places.
      
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      April 6, 2026 9:23am
      - Wandering Star
        
        It’s just something these people have heard repeated by Washington and Tel Aviv and they dutifully restate it without thinking. By any measure, the Judeo-Americans are the “disruptive” actors in the region now and for the past decades. How many nations have they bombed, invaded or otherwise attacked? Iran has “proxies” only to help keep the Judeo-Americans in check, but they think it’s the inverse.
        
        As I have stressed many times, I have no problem with anyone supporting the Judeo-American Great Israel project, but I do have a problem when they lie about the dynamic and who is driving the violence.
        
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        April 6, 2026 11:05am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Trump really really needs to shut TF up. He has badly weakening the appearance of US strength with all his whining – everyone knows now how weak his resolve really is. Just childish.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:30am
    - Taieri
      
      He has badly weakening the appearance of US strength
      ————-
      
      The perception (and projection) of power is usually far more effective than its actual exercise.
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:11pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Nothing: I have described him as “the toddler in the White House” and I truly believe that is how he is acting: Very short attention span, and tantrums when things don’t go how he would like.
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:23pm
  - Individual Responsibility
    
    David Garrett – your continual sniping at and about Donald Trump has become very tiresome.
    
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    April 6, 2026 4:07pm
- david in Aus
  
  Iranian reply, “NUTS”.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:54am
- BananaLlama
  
  And yet the straight remains closed no matter how much he stamps his feet.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:56am
  - kowtow
    
    Only it’s not closed.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:39am
    - BananaLlama
      
      You know that i can just go look up the number of transits and see that you are lying, right?
      https://hormuzstraitmonitor.com/
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:34pm
  - R
    
    Keep up with the news, there are ships moving, IRAN is going to subtly retract from its irresponsible international behaviour. They too need an income, even if it’s only ‘passage levies’.
    
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    April 6, 2026 12:11pm
- Wandering Star
  
  There’s a lot of “must” there. Trump simply doesn’t hold the cards to be making these demands.
  
  Besides, the gist is that Iran must not be able to defend itself. Why should it not have this capability?
  
  Every nation has a right to defend itself, and this is even more crucial when the Judeo-Americans have marked you for destruction.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:02am
- pb
  
  He’s just stolen Zelensky’s 20 point plan
  
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  April 6, 2026 2:07pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Re the overnight rescue of the downed airman, there is a casual reference to a couple of transport planes being destroyed to stop them falling into Iranian hands.

The aircraft appear to be Hercules. Recall that five of them (including spares & training) have recently cost us NZ $1.5B. So, perhaps US$100m each.

A snapshot of the cost of the exercise, and the war itself.

http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2k1dgz142o
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April 6, 2026 8:07am
- Charlotte Wells
  
  Those 2 herc’s were a FOB. They were the transport version. One had the ‘Little Bird’ chopper as cargo.
  
  Stuck in soft ground they were destroyed.
  
  There is a video of the successful extraction Herc’ on the web.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:56am
CJames

Trump’s plan to destroy their power structure (which would collapse their country) is a lot easier to do than people think now they have air superiority. They don’t even have to bomb their power stations.
All they need to do is drop an airblast bomb full of graphite powder over each of the crucial switchyards. Be an almighty bang from all the flashovers and everything would go down. They won’t be able to repair it without getting spare parts (sactions) but any new government could bring the power back quickly.
Without electricity, no banking. The IRG wouldn’t get paid and the mullahs couldn’t communicate.
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April 6, 2026 8:13am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The Iranians could respond by hitting the desalination plants of the Gulf States. Somewhere, I read that the UAE (I think) obtains 100% of its fresh water from such plants.
  
  I don’t know how much water is stored, but if I lived there, I’d certainly have a few litres tucked away.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:23am
- Greenheart
  
  This started as a war to free the Iranian population from their mullahs and is now turning into a war aimed at killing them. I do not think that is something to celebrate.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:23am
  - imalwaysright
    
    That’s right, the aim was to disarm or break the Government to allow the citizens to stage their own rebellion.
    
    That was clearly bullshit designed to get the foot in the door.
    
    Nettanyahu has become a middle east Hitler by using OPM….Other Peoples Military.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:01am
    - Wayne1749
      
      Yep, the notion of a ‘popular’ uprising was a sheer fantasy. The majority of Iranians will rally around the flag and resist the invaders, as would be the case in any other country.
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:27pm
  - Wandering Star
    
    It was never about “freeing” the Iranians. That’s just a the usual sob story used to get the idiots to support another ill-considered war.
    
    It’s about Israeli regional dominance – but that’s hardly a good marketing strategy is it, because most people would respond “why is Israeli regional dominance something we should support or even favour?”
    
    Hence, it’s sold as “those poor Iranians just want to be free to wear miniskirts and to be gay.” And people believe this sh*t as if they were born yesterday. Incredible really.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:17am
- Boy Geoff
  
  Haven’t the mullahs been preparing for that kind of contingency over the last 47 years though?
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:28am
  - Charlotte Wells
    
    You would think so, however 40 something years of cowardly US presidents may have left them feeling that the US would never hit back.
    
    Perhaps they have fallen into the trap of playing half-court tennis.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:01am
  - Wandering Star
    
    You’ve hit on a crucial point, which is that these attacks on Iran have been 50 years in the making, and especially since 2018 when Trump ripped up the JCPOA, which was an obstacle to any attack.
    
    These attacks have nothing to do with recent protests, or even whether or not Iran has a nuclear program. In fact, the Judeo-Americans would be quite happy if an Iranian regime was nuclear armed and clamped down on protests, provided they could be relied on to be subservient to Israeli interests.
    
    One of the main impediments to understanding politics is focusing only on what is said rather than what really matters, which is what is done.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:21am
    - Wayne1749
      
      “Judeo-American” says everything about the direction of the United States. No authentic Christian leader would speak as Trump does—threatening actions that would be condemned as war crimes if carried out by anyone else. The gap between America’s professed values and its conduct has never been wider.
      And professed values, even if not always adhered to do have a restraining effect.
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:31pm
    - Paulus
      
      I believe that had Iran finally got a nuclear weapon that from all the world’s countries they would be the first to use it initially to obliterate Israel.
      Their Leaders are/were consanguinitilly mentally mad through manynyears and generations of interrelative births.
      Sadly much of the Muslims world has the same problem.
      The UK Health system is collapsing at the exponentially growing number of mentally sick young people in the UK from certain Immigrants due to family inter related births.
      
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      April 6, 2026 2:10pm
- MCōs
  
  “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it”
  
  What could possibly go wrong
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:34am
  - David Garrett
    
    MCos: Ah yes…a phrase familiar from Vietnam..if the idiot puts boots on the ground, possibly on Kharg Island, he may find it as difficult to get out of as Nixon did 50 years ago in Indo-China.
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:39am
    - MCōs
      
      Familiar from Vietnam, but applicable to many situations where the aggressor reasons overwhelming destruction will prevail
      
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      April 6, 2026 9:02am
      - kowtow
        
        Like Oct 7 ?
        
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        April 6, 2026 9:21am
    - BananaLlama
      
      Commentators should start asking themselves how Iran can hit American airbases hundreds of miles away before they put troops within a stones throw of the shore line.
      
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      April 6, 2026 9:05am
      - Charlotte Wells
        
        One could ask how Germany was able to hit England with V2’s while it was being reduced to rubble.
        
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        April 6, 2026 11:07am
      - BananaLlama
        
        Or you are going to create another Snake Island and get humiliated just like the Russians.
        
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        April 6, 2026 12:39pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        They didn’t have a lot of V2s which were very advanced tech at the time. Came along a bit late to change anything.
        
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        April 6, 2026 2:24pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Google AI says the V2’s were launched primarily from occupied Holland and Belgium
        
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        April 6, 2026 4:36pm
    - Wandering Star
      
      We disagree on a lot David, but you are 100% right here: Trump’s “boots on the ground” folly will more likely than not see hundreds, perhaps thousands, of US casualties (the Israelis won’t risk their soldiers, of course) which will serve as a “justification” to draw the US in to a long protracted war of perhaps several years. This is an outcome strategically favourable only to Israel, but nobody else.
      
      I suspect that the reason why severable high ranking military men have been fired recently is because they have given Trump the advice I have just given.
      
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      April 6, 2026 11:31am
    - NothingLeft
      
      If US had Ukrainian FPV drone tech for area denial/suppression they would find it much easier. But Trump siding with Putin and cold-shouldering Europe and Ukraine has hamstrung US in current conflict, leaving them a year or two behind in drone tech deployment and training that Iranians are getting from Russia. US lacks cheap anti-drone defensive tools required for such a mission, they’ve burnt through much of their stocks of expensive defensive missiles leaving them increasingly vulnerable.
      
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      April 6, 2026 11:42am
      - Don Beckett
        
        The US is by far the biggest supplier of arms and aid to Ukraine – still – despite the verbiage.
        
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        April 6, 2026 1:06pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        US was a major supplier of Ukrainian aid, but no longer. They’re an afterthought now, and mostly too expensive/obsolete in new-era low-cost drone war.
        
        Ukrainian armaments are mostly indigenously produced. More than 90% of their kills now are from Ukrainian produced drones. And their long range attack drones are almost entirely Ukrainian produced too.
        
        They do use European missile defenses, Nassams, Iris T and various anti-missile autocannons, as well as a lot of non-US supplied artillery, but US missiles are basically all gone at this point as European systems have stepped in to replace them. Patriot missiles are still highly sought after but US used up most in Gulf, so now Ukraine is not able to get restocks and will instead relying on European weapons.
        
        Ukraine also gets most of it’s fighting vehicles, MRAPs etc from non-US sources now.
        
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        April 6, 2026 1:26pm
      - Graeme Hall
        
        Washington Post (March 26th) reports 200 Ukrainians are in the middle east now instructing the US and regional allied countries how to combat drones.
        
        https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-war-us-israel-news-updates/card/200-ukrainian-air-defenders-are-in-middle-east-fighting-iranian-drones-FsG9HL0DA85iQWJsutss
        
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        April 6, 2026 3:03pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      I think it was Eisenhower in ’53 that initiated US involvement in Vietnam David. It was then continued by Kennedy and Johnson until Nixon started withdrawing troops in ’72 with the last leaving in March ’73. So four years to extract the US. As opposed to a total of 20 years in country. Doesn’t seem to me that he had as much of an issue as Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson?
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:13pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    
    Tacitus
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:40am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      Is that Te Reo?
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:48pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        They created a wasteland, and called it victory.
        
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        April 6, 2026 5:22pm
  - Cassandra
    
    A village, M, and not quite a parallel in that saving doesn’t appear to be the purpose in Iran, but rather stopping. I observed a lot of villages saved rather than destroyed (and a lot of destruction too!).
    
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    April 6, 2026 9:06am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Here’s 40 seconds of George Bernard Shaw, in a similar vein, telling us his view on how to eliminate the biggest barrier to successful Socialism…..us.
    
    https://youtu.be/FQXAqP6ReqY?si=H3DWJsPWY21ZxuBz
    
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    April 6, 2026 9:19am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Shaw was a founding member of the Fabian Society.
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:49pm
- virtualmark
  
  Without electricity … no water, no sewage, no refrigeration of food etc etc. Way to get the Iranian population on your side!
  
  And it would almost certainly provoke Iran into attacking the Gulf states desalination plants. Queue more civilian distress.
  
  Trump and Kegs-breath need to be careful that they don’t find themselves charged with war crimes.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:44am
  - Stu2
    
    And gulf state critical oil and gas infrastructure – ugly
    
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    April 6, 2026 10:35am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Great, commit a war crime leaving civilians without electricity to effect regime change.
  
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  April 6, 2026 8:45am
  - artemisia
    
    The threat might be enough. Or the first power station destroyed.
    
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    April 6, 2026 10:31am
  - Charlotte Wells
    
    That isn’t a war crime.
    
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    April 6, 2026 10:33am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      As you’re so fond of saying, “just Google it yourself”. Amongst others:
      
      Geneva Convention IV, Article 33:
      “No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed.”
      
      Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC):
      Article 8(2)(b)(ii):
      Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects is a war crime
      
      Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions (1977):
      Article 54, Additional Protocol I
      Prohibits attacking objects indispensable to civilian survival, including:
      water systems
      food production
      electricity if it affects survival systems
      
      Article 51(5)(b), Additional Protocol I prohibits attacks expected to cause:
      excessive incidental civilian harm compared to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated
      
      It’s sad that your cult has brainwashed you so well you’ll deny war crimes to remain a member.
      
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      April 6, 2026 2:00pm
  - kowtow
    
    The Mullahs are currently attacking civilian infrastructure in Kuwait .
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:36am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Destroying infrastructure is not always a war crime HC.
    
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    April 6, 2026 1:15pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      “Without electricity, no banking” – in this case it is a war crime. Leaving civilians without access to money is not a military objective for a start, never mind non-military infrastructure dependent on power such as hospitals, businesses, schools, refrigeration and air conditioning.
      
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      April 6, 2026 5:32pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Nonsense HC. If infrastructure is destroyed in the pursuit of military objectives (ie a power station providing power to a military base) there is no crime. And there is also the small matter of “imperative military necessity”. Which of course, can mean any manner of things. As long as the purpose is not to terrorise the population. And surely no one can make the claim that the US is trying to terrorise the Iranian population. You’d have to be completely mad.
        
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        April 6, 2026 8:15pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        @IVV That wasn’t CJames claim, go back and read the post. He said destroying all electricity, resulting in “no banking”. A strike of that scope is far too broad, again:
        
        Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions (1977):
        Article 51(5)(b), Additional Protocol I prohibits attacks expected to cause:
        excessive incidental civilian harm compared to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated
        
        It’s a war crime. I don’t know why you’re trying to defend war crimes.
        
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        April 6, 2026 11:40pm
- Damocles11
  
  It’s not ‘Mullahs’ who would suffer, it’s tens of millions of people.
  #WarCrimes
  
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  April 6, 2026 9:05am
- Taieri
  
  It is prohibited to attack civilian energy infrastructure. If a power plant has both civilian and military purposes (“dual-use”), it may be considered a military objective where it makes “an effective contribution to military action” and the attack “offers a definite military advantage.” However, any strike must respect the principles of proportionality and precautions in attack. The proportionality principle prohibits attacks expected to cause incidental civilian harm that would be excessive in relation to the military advantage. The civilian harm to be considered includes foreseeable reverberating or indirect harm.
  
  https://www.justsecurity.org/135423/professors-letter-international-law-iran-war/
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:48am
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Today the UN rule of International Law on military conduct is hardly being observed by any side in a conflict. Look at March 7th attack on Israel, look at Putin in the Ukraine, look at the Sudan with two out of control armies murdering civilians at will, look at the Iranian regime killing protestors, look at Myanmar breaking truces. The list goes on & on. How is the esteemed Professor going to enforce the law? As Stalin replied when told the Pope disapproved of his actions “How many divisions does the Pope have?”. The philosophical argument “Might is Right” has always been hard to disprove.
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:15pm
    - Taieri
      
      Today the UN rule of International Law on military conduct is hardly being observed by any side in a conflict
      ———-
      
      I don’t question that. But should we condone it?
      
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      April 6, 2026 4:33pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      Your argument is basically “everyone else is hurting civilians, lets go do the same”
      
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      April 6, 2026 5:34pm
  - CJames
    
    It is not prohibited. There is no “International Law on war” though there are principles and conventions combatants are supposed to adhere to. However, almost every conflict since WW2 has seem them disregarded.
    The article is just an opinion of a lot of leftwing academics (though that may be tautology). Did the same law professors write similar articles when Obama did his military actions – the answer to that explains it all
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:39pm
    - Taieri
      
      There is no “International Law on war” though there are principles and conventions combatants are supposed to adhere to. However, almost every conflict since WW2 has seem them disregarded.
      ————-
      
      The US is a party to the Geneva Convention I-II-III-IV and Protocol III. It has also signed the Protocol I (Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts), although it hasn’t ratified it to date.
      Whether the adherence to these Conventions is complied with or disregarded is neither here nor there – a war crime is a war crime.
      
      As for the criticism of Obama and military actions during his term in office, there’s plenty of that available, both from the “left” and from the “right”. You can find it easily yourself.
      
      “Just an opinion” expressed by “a lot of leftwing academics”as you’ve succinctly describe them contains a number of references to the existing laws. Perhaps they are all wrong and you are right? Who am I to tell…?
      
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      April 6, 2026 4:31pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Only part of the law Taieri. There is more.
    
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    April 6, 2026 8:17pm
- sungsamning
  
  Ah, so that’s it. I wasn’t aware of such a weapon. Good to know the facilities can easily be repaired. I know much more about WW1-2 weapons.
  
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  April 6, 2026 1:57pm
- pb
  
  Its the Petro Dollar. America was trying to become the last petrol station standing.
  
  Attacked Russia through Ukraine, to destroy the Nordstream money link between europe and russia. Except Russia dodged a bullet. Ongoing attacks on fuel exports are American funded.
  
  Attack Iran to disrupt their oil. Oops, destroyed the Saudi Oil Empires instead. And strengthened Chinas hand.
  
  Russia and China are playing proxy wars with Iran. As America did in Ukraine against Russia.
  
  The Yarmulke terrorist is out of control and doing a Sinai. Actively chasing a Samson option.
  
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  April 6, 2026 2:14pm
SGA

“Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell – JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah,” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social. (FOX news)

Let me guess- this latest piece of Churchillian rhetoric is just the POTUS playing 7-d chess, not him progressively becoming unhinged.
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April 6, 2026 8:17am
NeverMindTheBollocks

The thrust of this article is that you save the most if you consume the solar electricity you produce. It follows that working from home enables you to do that in a way that working from the office does not.

Joining the dots, is it any wonder that Fleur Fitzsimmons is agitating for office based public servants to be able to work from home?

http://www.1news.co.nz/2026/04/06/as-petrol-power-prices-soar-should-you-switch-to-solar-power-and-an-electric-car/
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April 6, 2026 8:17am
- JerJer
  
  The public service are already inefficient enough. Anyway done the math on the gains to be had by unproductive people working at home unsupervised under the guise of saving the planet at 2 dollars of electricity per day?
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:59am
- MCōs
  
  What happens to any electricity that is produced by hydro, geothermal, wind, whatever and is not used?
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:06am
Yvette

Treaty rights and major wrong
The New Zealand Company was formed in London in 1839 and was a joint-stock company designed to manage systematic colonization, with its first ships arriving in Wellington in January 1840
Why, then was it not a signatory to the Treaty of Waitangi, or does this emphasise that the Treaty was indeed an agreement of the Crown with Maori, and the reference to article 3, “British subjects” just wishful thinking which means nothing for those of non-Maori descent, who actually have no founding or funding document?

To take one word from the Treaty, ‘protection’, is it in fact the Treaty treats non-Maori more as the object of the Treaty, the out-of-order pioneers to be protected against, than bestow indirect British subject status?

Is this one reason why those not of Maori descent may not bring a case before the Waitangi Tribunal – that the European conceived, written and translated (written and explained in 1840)Treaty, with no Maori input, is indeed for Maori only, and non-Maori New Zealanders have no founding document?
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April 6, 2026 8:36am
- virtualmark
  
  It wouldn’t be a signatory to the Treaty of Waitangi because, as a joint-stock company formed in London, it was already subject to the authority of the Crown.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:29am
- Kevin1
  
  It is of a piece with the fiction that you or I are citizens, as are Americans, French, and Germans of their Republics. They may be crazy in their own special ways, and with fools parasites and drongos of ill intent above them, but.
  
  We, legally, are subjects.
  
  Subjects require squatting upon, as a toad or troll might do, if toad or troll is maintain itself. The toad/troll/2 buttocks one backside Labour/National have been getting worried. So they sow division. And get paid ‘fixing’ it.
  Of course the toad picks the weaker parade to march in front of, its the same in Canada with the Quebec thing, the Tranny business etc in the US. – you can depend on v little in this world but you can on hatred. Unless you’re big enough to see past that.
  
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  April 6, 2026 3:09pm
G152

Another war lost by the US
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April 6, 2026 9:06am
Damocles11

‘Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the F*****’ Strait, you crazy b*******, or you’ll be living in Hell – JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP’
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April 6, 2026 9:08am
Damocles11

‘US President Donald Trump insists the war on Iran “should be wrapped up in days.”
Trump told ABC News “no sane group of people could stand the punishment that’s going to rain down on them if it’s not.”
He told the US outlet that if Iran doesn’t make a peace deal in 48 hours “we’re blowing up the whole country.”
In the phone interview, Trump said “very little” is off limits if no deal is made. When asked if that meant targeting civilian infrastructure, he replied: “I don’t want to talk about that.”
“They don’t want to make a deal; their whole country is gone,” Trump said.’
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April 6, 2026 9:09am
David Garrett

MCos: Yes…you (or someone else) may remember the exact figure, but from memory the US dropped perhaps 10 times the tonnage of bombs on Indo-China – because of course the war was not limited to Vietnam – than was dropped on Germany in the Second World War. In neither case did bombing alone bring about the end of the conflicts.

No reason to think this war will be any different. It is difficult to exaggerate just how destroyed Germany was by the beginning of ’45…but it still functioned as a state somehow
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April 6, 2026 9:10am
- MCōs
  
  Cambodia has had a rough time in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, right up to this day with continuing sabre rattling on the border with Thailand that has occasionally turned into fighting.
  A Franco-Siamese Treaty determined the border 120yrs ago and there’s arguments ever since.
  In one place a Thai temple is on the wrong side of the border as I understand.
  
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  April 6, 2026 9:33am
  - rouppe
    
    Cambodia also lost some land to Vietnam I believe.
    
    During the overthrow of the Khmer Rouge I think.
    
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    April 6, 2026 9:49am
- imalwaysright
  
  The only thing we seem to learn from history is how to do the same again more efficiently.
  
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  April 6, 2026 9:35am
- Charlotte Wells
  
  Operation Linebacker II is credited with forcing the North Vietnamese back to the negotiating table and accepting the treaty to end the war.
  
  America withdrew, South Vietnam was to remain independant.
  
  After being rearmed by China and Russia the North Vietnamese broke the treaty and invaded the South.
  
  France, having promised to keep South Vietnam armed and resupplied indulged in their usual duplicity. The result was the inevitable defeat of an independant South Vietnam.
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:48am
  - Taieri
    
    France, having promised to keep South Vietnam armed and resupplied indulged in their usual duplicity
    ————–
    
    While France provided military support to South Vietnam in the First Indochina War (1946-1954), their involvement ended after the battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:12am
  - kowtow
    
    A Democrat war , remember of course it was Kennedy secretly ramping up US involvement .LBJ stuck then in a war not of his choosing and then when it all fell apart as the N Vietnamese broke all their false/ hollow promises , it was a Democrat controlled Congress which refused any more aid to their “allies” in S Vietnam .
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:35am
    - sungsamning
      
      Yes, that’s right. Saved me saying it.
      
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      April 6, 2026 2:01pm
  - MCōs
    
    France hadn’t had any involvement with Vietnam since 1956 after they’d had their arses kicked at Dien Bien Phu two years previously.
    The USA by way of Henry Kissinger signed the Paris Peace Accords in 1973 and left the South to their fate and on April 30 1975 Saigon fell.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:46am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘they’d had their arses kicked at Dien Bien Phu ‘
      
      Pretty dismissive sentence given how terribly the prisoners were treated , a cynical , brutal war crime .
      
      But hey , it’s different when the left do it.
      
      From AI
      
      ‘After the fall of Dien Bien Phu in May 1954, approximately 11,000 to 12,000 French Union troops were captured. Survivors endured brutal forced marches of over 400 miles to Viet Minh prison camps, with an estimated 60% dying in captivity due to starvation, disease, and abuse. Only about 3,300 to 3,500 prisoners were repatriated a few months later’
      
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      April 6, 2026 1:39pm
  - Paulus
    
    The result with Vietnam is quite simple – I wish I had shares in their sucessful and booming economy, despite being a Communist country.
    With our being the second highest Minimum Hourly Wage in the OECD world we could not dream of a booming economy or any real economy.
    
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    April 6, 2026 2:19pm
    - MCōs
      
      I did a quick check check and Oz, UK, Germany all have higher minimum wage than NZ and Poland much lower. Switzerland doesn’t have a universal minimum wage, various areas do starting around $40/hr.
      
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      April 6, 2026 5:32pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Lol, I think you will find that Vietnam transitioned to a free market capitalist economy years ago. 1980’s maybe? They might have a “communist” government, but they are capitalist. So what in actual fact does that make their Government?
      
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      April 6, 2026 8:23pm
Dudley Quaffquaff

What exactly is the problem that NZ First’s “defining a woman” Bill is the best, or even an appropriate, way to solve? What is the role of law here?

Men calling themselves women is not a problem in itself. No law requires anybody else to agree with them, or to associate with them if they don’t want.

Men asking to be referred to as “she” or “Loretta”? Anybody can state how they wish to be referred to, and if they do it’s rude not to comply, just as it’s rude to carry on calling me “Dud” if I’ve asked you to call me “Dudley”. But again – no law requires compliance, and no law is required to confirm that no law requires it.

Men calling themselves women so as to get access to vulnerable women in women’s changing rooms, bathrooms, refuges, personal care etc? It’s already illegal to threaten, harass and assault women, wherever it’s done. It’s already permissible in law to restrict access to certain facilities and for the owners of such facilities to ask anybody to leave. Women don’t have to patronise places that don’t offer, or fail to ensure, women-only spaces and no law is required to confirm that anybody isn’t required to do something.

Requiring access to be restricted as a legal obligation, however, opens up the difficulty of enforcement, false accusation of tall and powerfully-built women, knicker checks at the door etc.

In short, acknowledging that there is an issue is one thing; whether a legal instrument is the best way of addressing it, is another. Clear, coherent and consistent messaging about the importance of women’s consent to issues that affect them, the non-transferability and non-generalisability of consent, and women’s rights to control access to their bodies would be good. Trans women will not be able to argue in their defence “but the ladies don’t mind” if it is made loudly and consistently clear that actually quite a lot of them bloody well do mind. Maybe we’ll get some of that, at least, out of this Bill.
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April 6, 2026 9:21am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Section 194 of the NZ Crimes act states:
  
  Assault on a child, or by a male on a female
  Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who—
  
  (a)assaults any child under the age of 14 years; or
  
  (b)being a male, assaults any female.
  
  Given that our law specifically refers to a grime committed by one gender against another, one can reasonably argue that there is now a requirement to define, in law, what those genders actually are.
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:34am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Male assaults female is undeniably a sexist law.
    
    Ain’t it amazing that is 5o+ years of feminist protest, not one march has been in favour of making that law equal for all.
    
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    April 6, 2026 10:58am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      If men want to make the gender of victim or indeed perpetrator irrelevant in defining the nature of a crime, let them by all means make the case for that. Women aren’t going to do everythingfor you.
      
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      April 6, 2026 3:02pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Heh!
        
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        April 6, 2026 5:27pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    We should amend all of our Crimes Acts to say ‘not less than’ instead of ‘not exceeding’ in reference to imprisonment.
    
    The judiciary have abused their discretionary powers to undermine the intent of Parliament and the safety of New Zealanders.
    
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    April 6, 2026 11:27am
    - pdm
      
      Not going to happen while Goldsmith is Justice Minister because he will never get round to it.
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:53pm
- JerJer
  
  Men should be allowed to call themselves men as long as we are allowed to laugh at anthem and tease them as a result of their ridiculous charade and performance that they put on. However as soon as they start entering woman’s changing rooms they should be arrested and charged, and as soon as they start claiming rights as a gender that does not exist then they should be chucked in the funny farm and laws like NZ first is proposing hurriedly enacted to protect society from the clinically insane.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:02am
  - Paulus
    
    But the closing of our homes for the mentally infirmed was well achieved by I believe, Helen Clark.
    
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    April 6, 2026 2:22pm
    - R
      
      YES, CORRECT.
      
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      April 6, 2026 7:21pm
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Again – How do you propose to enforce a legal prohibition on men in dresses entering women’s changing rooms? Are you envisaging a knickers-down check at the door? Carried out by whom, and on whom?
    
    Yes, most trans women are pretty obvious. Women ought to have the reassurance that if they report them to a security guard or to the facility owner, they will be supported in asking them to leave rather than told to stop being such a bigot. That’s actually more likely to happen if the consequence is simply that they have to leave. It’s likely to make it more difficult to complain and to take action if the consequence is you’ll have to be witness in a court case.
    
    And there should be absolutely no basis for trans women to claim that “I didn’t think anybody would mind” – or that “I’ll get beaten up if I go into the men’s”. Men’s role here is to declare that they will do no such thing, and that they will intervene if they see it happening.
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:12pm
- judith8409121
  
  only a man could write such a piece that has the statement “Women don’t have to patronise places that don’t offer, or fail to ensure, women-only spaces and no law is required to confirm that anybody isn’t required to do something.” – when those places are all council facilities, public toilets and prisons, welfare areas, refuge centres, police cells, sporting arenas,etc. So if you’re bureaucrat can’t tell that a man can call himself a woman and then taking women’s opportunities, positions, and safe places is not something that should be accepted – laws such as these will force them to do so. Given that trans-women are men this will make sure they take note.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:45am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    Sorry, your syntax gets a bit confused here and I lose you.
    
    When you say “laws such as these will force them to do so” – force whom exactly to do what exactly?
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:17pm
- Nūhaka Native
  
  Just to quote a well known writer : “Dress however you please. Call yourself whatever you like. Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you. Live your best life in peace and security. But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?”
  
  Drawing on the reasoning in the For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers Supreme Court case in the UK, a pretty good argument can be made that New Zealand law would benefit from clearly defining “male” and “female” as biological sex to ensure legal certainty and consistency. Many rights and protections, such as those relating to pregnancy, safety, and privacy and dignity in single-sex spaces, are grounded in biological differences, and without clear definitions, these protections can become difficult to apply in practice.
  
  This also extends to sport, where male puberty is associated with lasting physical advantages, making clear sex categories important for fairness and safety in female competition (and not just in the Olympics).
  
  The argument maintains that defining sex in law does not remove protections for transgender people, who can continue to be protected under separate legal provisions, but rather ensures that sex-based rights remain clear, enforceable, and workable within the legal system and society.
  
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  April 7, 2026 7:38pm
kowtow

Brilliant operation rescuing that airman .

And great news too .
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April 6, 2026 9:23am
- imalwaysright
  
  Seen it….
  
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  April 6, 2026 2:19pm
Jack5

Apology and clarification to Lucy Rogers …

In a post late last night, a Moderator trimmed a reference I made to Lucy Rogers’ post about Easter (the thread: “An Anglican Responds to the Anglican Church’s Feeble Response about Easter”).

Lucy: I apologise for that. You are great. You get out there on the streets among the protesters, and, heavily outnumbered, bravely hold your ground. On the other hand, I just type, sometimes in support of you, from my PC safe in a warm home, a mere keyboard iconoclast.

The reference trimmed was a smart-arse play on the words “Lucy” and “Lucifer”. I’ve put my foot in my mouth like this hundreds of times in a long life.

A further explanation: I may have been influenced by the portrayal of the fallen angel, Lucifer, in Milton’s great English work, Paradise Lost. Over the centuries, many have suggested Milton’s portrayal makes Lucifer a bit too likeable. Milton gave him the best lines.
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April 6, 2026 9:47am
Greenheart

The new Trump negotiating system -argue with yourself and lose your temper.
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April 6, 2026 10:01am
Inandout

On the subject of an employee stepping in to stop shoplifting this legal chap discusses the whole scenario. The employee was immediately sacked. NZ law I am sure is similar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXn0LfdObSY
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April 6, 2026 10:07am
MCōs

Donald Trump on truth social is the literature equivalent of T20 cricket

Tuesday will be Power Plant Day, and Bridge Day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it!!! Open the Fuckin’ Strait, you crazy bastards, or you’ll be living in Hell – JUST WATCH! Praise be to Allah. President DONALD J. TRUMP

https://x.com/weymarplanet/status/2040775728967377295?s=61
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April 6, 2026 10:12am
- Taieri
  
  And there’s still no doctor in the house…
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:19am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Putting aside the rights and wrongs and value of this war for a moment, rather than scare Tehran, it seems to me that these messages will provide them with a great deal of hope that they are winning the psychological war by driving the US President completely mad and that a breakdown of his health is on the cards.
  
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  April 6, 2026 1:40pm
  - MCōs
    
    I remember watching his TV show years ago before he got into politics. Then one episode he got into a helicopter and flew around New York pointing out the buildings he owned before going back on set and firing someone
    That was ideal for him. Always kingpin and the chance to fire people with humiliation.
    
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    April 6, 2026 5:57pm
Handyman

I don’t get the need to occupy Kharg island.
All it does is process and store oil, all of which comes from the Iranian mainland. Iran could stop delivering any oil to Kharg island in minutes by flicking a switch.
Secondly, there is no way to get the stored oil out until the Hormuz is free.
Thirdly, US ground troops would be a huge drone magnet. Iran has seen what the US did to save one US pilot; imagine what they will do to save thousands caught in the Kharg killing fields.
What’s the point?
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April 6, 2026 10:16am
- Stu2
  
  It is the major oil export port for Iran.
  Iranian tankers are entering and leaving the gulf (the US isn’t stopping them as any source of the oil is vital at the moment, and indeed they have lifted the oil sanctions)
  
  So Kharg is an enormous and active cog in the Iranian economy
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:50am
  - MCōs
    
    Insurance is a big issue as you’d expect with very high premiums
    For more details put Google AI to work
    
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    April 6, 2026 12:27pm
    - Taieri
      
      An interesting interview on this topic:
      
      https://www.theamericanconservative.com/naval-expert-the-u-s-knew-iran-would-close-hormuz/
      
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      April 6, 2026 12:57pm
- Charlotte Wells
  
  They aren’t going to go into Kharg.
  
  It is a red herring.
  
  The islands that actually control the Strait are Hormuz Island and adjacent.
  
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  April 6, 2026 10:54am
  - Taieri
    
    They aren’t going to go into Kharg.
    ————-
    
    Insider’s knowledge?
    
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    April 6, 2026 12:56pm
- herb1
  
  America don’t want to export the Kharg oil, they want to stop Iran expo It Which they’re currently doing. The
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:44am
- Wandering Star
  
  “What’s the point?” Being seen to do something when nothing else has worked as hoped. Trump’s living in a 1980s action movie script.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:52am
- Don Beckett
  
  Talk of taking kharg island is just that – talk. It is a red herring. There is no point in occupying it. They would be much better off to take the islands of Abu Musa & the other two which are closer to the UAE, and have a channel close to UAE territory which would be easier to control, Iran occupying those islands gives then a much closer position to cause disruption.
  
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  April 6, 2026 11:57am
- amospicton
  
  Iran needs to sell oil to keep functioning. No oil sales, no regime.
  
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  April 6, 2026 12:00pm
  - MCōs
    
    Less than 11% of the oil passing through the Strait of Hormuz is Iranian
    There are other countries affected who will be feeling the pinch. Down the line that would include New Zealand
    
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    April 6, 2026 12:35pm
- Paulus
  
  But only 5% of the World’s oil comes through Hormuz, so get real as 95% comes from elsewhere -so get real.
  
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  April 6, 2026 2:25pm
  - Stu2
    
    Way more than 5% – from the IEA Hormuz Factsheet
    
    … “The Strait of Hormuz, through which an average of 20 million barrels per day (mb/d) of crude oil and oil products were shipped in 2025, is one of the world’s most critical oil transit chokepoints. With around 25% of the world’s seaborne oil trade transiting the Strait, and options to bypass it being limited, any disruption to flows through the Strait would have huge consequences for world oil markets” …
    
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    April 6, 2026 2:53pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    closer to 20% I think. It is a big deal. And a shit load of other petrochemical essentials like fertilizers etc
    
    Ukraine has also taken out most of Russia’s seaborne oil exporting capacity in last few days/weeks in Baltic and Black Sea, another few % of world’s supply.
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:01pm
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    I saw a number of something like 20 to 25% of the world’s traded oil. There is a huge difference of course.
    
    That means that countries with their own oil are generally OK. Those who do not are at risk.
    
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    April 6, 2026 3:02pm
Taieri

What’s the point?
————

Just over 90% of Iranian oil exports (1.5 to 2.0M barrels per day) passes through Kharg Island. Damage to Kharg facilities will eliminate the availability of this oil and its recipients will have to obtain it elsewhere. Not only that. The closure of Kharg means that the Iranian oil industry would effectively be shut down. And it can’t be reopened at the proverbial flick of switch. This would very likely be a long term situation resulting in very serious consequences for the world economy. Including of course the NZ economy. Are we prepared for that?
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April 6, 2026 11:25am
- MCōs
  
  Asia principally is the destination of Iranian oil from Kharg Island, mainly China and also South Korea
  An explosive situation for NZ
  
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  April 6, 2026 12:41pm
  - Wandering Star
    
    How anyone can argue that this botched operation against Iran is in New Zealand’s interest is beyond me. It’s much more important that our economy is not ruined and we are not thrown into recession than who is in charge of Iran.
    
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    April 6, 2026 2:40pm
    - greybeard
      
      Even you must see that our economy depends hugely on who is in control of Iran: if the Iranians decide that their hatred of the USA should be extended to the US allies and supporters then we are certainly going to feel it. Like it or not, NZ is inextricably linked to the USA, the UK, Australia and many other like-minded countries.
      
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      April 6, 2026 5:17pm
Sparrow

The Middle East has been in a continuous state of turmoil since the 14th May 1948.
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April 6, 2026 2:09pm
- kowtow
  
  Oh dear.
  
  Tad earlier than that.
  
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  April 6, 2026 4:30pm
Swifty

UK commie, Ranjeet Brar, makes his thoughts known on his wish for victory for the Islamic mullahs in Iran and for Israel to be wiped off the map, among other things:

https://x.com/habibi_uk/status/2040836143239807185?s=46

The man is lost.
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April 6, 2026 2:36pm
- Wandering Star
  
  He’s really quite clear what he means when he says that “[Israel] should be wiped off the map and replaced with the word ‘Palestine’….” That’s a map drawing and political unit organisation exercise, not a call to genocide.
  
  For obvious rhetorical reasons, there’s this game of “what they really mean is …..” where quite clear statements like this are frequently deliberately distorted to be claimed to mean that Jews as human beings will be wiped off the face of the earth, not the intended meaning that what is now called “Israel” will return to being called “Palestine” and the Jewish state will be disempowered.
  
  You have to ask yourself, though, which side has actually wiped more of the other side off the face of the earth, particularly in recent times?
  
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  April 6, 2026 4:36pm
  - Swifty
    
    Your first two paragraphs are easily the most naive statements you’ve ever made on this site.
    
    If the Jews lose the ability to defend themselves they will either be slaughtered by the new rulers/occupiers over time or have to leave – as we’ve seen elsewhere in the region since the ‘40s.
    
    Who would end up running this new Palestine? What version of Hamas or Hezbollah would you prefer?
    
    You’d be signing the Jews death warrant.
    
    And anyway, how is this new Palestine going to be brought about? The Jews won’t enter into it willingly, it will have to be forced on them.
    
    By whom?
    
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    April 6, 2026 7:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      Why waste your time? The first two paragraphs shows what this person really is about. Remember, this is the person who said he wanted to make New Zealand like Russia. Wipe your shoe and move on
      
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      April 6, 2026 7:34pm
  - Swifty
    
    This is how Hamas treats its own people, just imagine how they’d treat the Jews, the descendants of apes and pigs who rejected and still reject their prophet.
    
    https://x.com/eyakoby/status/2040981053104353585?s=46
    
    NSFW.
    
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    April 6, 2026 7:18pm
cmm (semi-retired edition)

Wow, supermarkets broke the law during Covid by smuggling staff…

I am not surprised at all. Many businesses broke the law to get shit done – including some I was involved with.

What is somewhat surprising is that Cindy didn’t think to talk to the head of Foodstuffs and other supermarkets. Not even once.

But I suppose she didn’t need to with her self-proclaimed awsumm inchewishun.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360960796/butchers-were-hidden-boots-during-covid-19-lockdown-supermarket-boss-says
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April 6, 2026 2:43pm
- Ghost
  
  I know a person whose business was meant to be closed under lock down, others with the same business were prosecuted. This person wasn’t because the hospital staff used this business, the person responsible for prosecutions used this business, the police used this business. We had code words to get appointments.
  
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  April 6, 2026 7:36pm
RdM

Net Zero France Capitulates to an Iranian Safe Passage Fee for Gulf Oil
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2026/04/05/french-surrender-monkeys-lead-the-way-in-buying-off-iranian-terrorists/

An interesting analysis series; this the latest:

https://www.malone.news/p/dire-straits-part-3-ch-2

Read these in order if not seen before:

https://www.malone.news/p/dire-straits
https://www.malone.news/p/dire-straits-part-2
https://www.malone.news/p/dire-straits-part-3

Just for folk who may not be aware of those links.

Everybody has different internet habits! ;=})
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April 6, 2026 9:18pm

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