About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

October 14, 2026 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 October 2026

Like this:

Like Loading…

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment199

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (199)

Login to comment or vote

Cassandra

News reports of lots of pro-Palestinian protesters marching through central London and Berlin, calling for an end to Israeli strikes on Gaza, three years after Hamas’ October 7 attack.

“End the genocide” and “Free Palestine”.

There’s no genocide. Whatever Israel has done is nothing like genocide. The Holocaust and the Armenian destruction this is not. Israel is attempting to destroy Hamas, the elected government of Gaza. The collateral damage is high but if you locate targets in residential areas it’s unavoidable. Extending the UN definition as Judge Pillay has done makes it a mockery.

There’s a simple way to end this. Recognise Israel, stop attacking and negotiate a two state solution, as Israel offered the Arabs 30 years ago. Again! First offered in 1948.

I might add that King Abdullah of Jordan said precisely that – accept Israel, do not go to war – on the day the British mandate ended, 15 May 1948, and the Arabs made their first attack on Israel.

Abdullah was a moderate, a realist and planned to add the West Bank to Jordan. Assassinated in 1951.
52 10
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:01am
- mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Legally, genocide is any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
  (a) Killing members of the group;
  (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
  
  8 53
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:20am
  - David George
    
    You do know what “intent” means?
    
    37 9
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 8:23am
    - mike
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      I’m no expert on genocide, but I should think 70,000 deaths in Gaza could not have occurred unintentionally. BTW, do you also object to the Hamas terrorist attack being considered genocide?
      
      8 52
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 8:28am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Isn’t this just childish? Hamas killed hundreds of Israelis in an atrocity. Quite predictably Israel launched a war to wipe out Hamas. Which Hamas knew would happen. Sadly wars kill people.
        
        That about sums it up.
        
        74 8
        Report
        October 14, 2026 8:40am
      - spryte
        
        Some points from the Geneva Convention to which both Israel and Palestine are signatories (although not all Protocols).
        
        – Using civilians to shield military objectives from attack is banned.
        – Parties must, “to the maximum extent feasible,” avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas and try to move civilians away from them.
        – Hospitals and similar protected sites lose protection if used to commit “acts harmful to the enemy.”
        – An attack is unlawful if the expected civilian harm is excessive relative to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
        – Not wearing a uniform doesn’t protect someone from attack. Disguising yourself as a civilian to kill, injure, or capture an enemy is perfidy.
        – In conflicts between a state and an armed group, no one has combatant privilege at all.
        
        I’m not weighing in on the genocide argument, just trying to provide some context to the discussion of the actions of both sides.
        
        9 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 8:41am
      - David George
        
        Hamas made their intention, in words and actions, very clear – the elimination of the Jewish people in Israel.
        They had an expectation that they would be supported by Hezbollah invading from Lebanon and killing Jews in large numbers.
        It is genocide according to the definition you posted above.
        
        50 7
        Report
        October 14, 2026 8:43am
      - mike
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Yes, the terrorist attack and the response are both genocidal.
        
        6 45
        Report
        October 14, 2026 8:51am
      - alloytoo
        
        You’re right, you’re no expert on genocide.
        
        7 1
        Report
        October 14, 2026 9:47am
      - Notsofast
        
        The Hamas attack was text book genocide.
        Their plan was to keep killing everyone in their path until they were stopped. That is what the Nazis and Hutus did.
        The response was the opposite.
        
        7 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 9:50am
      - Gary Benner
        
        The word “intent” mentioned above is critical Mike. Hamas, along with Iran, the Houthis, and Hezbollah all have a common goal to eliminate Israel and Jews therein.
        
        Now that is genocide.
        
        Israel’s actions have since 1948 been in response to attacks made on it, often in ways that “the rules of war” (eg. Geneva Convention etc) do not and cannot apply. ie Hamas and before them the PLO operate military actions from within and under schools, hospitals, and anywhere around the general populace. That makes any response difficult to differentiate between the “soldiers” and the collateral citizens.
        
        So who is then responsible for any collateral deaths of citizens? Can you actually call them “innocent” if they were the ones who voted in Hamas? Any why do they not vacate the area once rockets are fired from that location? Or are they held their against their will? Only Hamas.
        
        War operates on two levels – the actual actions, and the propaganda war. You have to say that Iran and Hamas are very effective in the latter. But that success is made easier by the useful idiots in the West who take everything coming out of “Pallywood” as gospel truth – especially collating military and civilian deaths. They use anything to justify their emotive stance. It does not stand up to any logic or reason.
        
        The history of the many attempts to achieve peace in the Middle East shows that the radical Islamists do not want peace, they want to keep fighting Israel. From Arafat on, the very substantial attempts to create a 2 state peace brokered by the likes of Clinton et al, failed each time because of only one party – the Palestinians and their cohorts.
        
        Mike, remember that the October 7th attack only happened because Israel let their guard down, believing that there was a sea change in Gaza. As the old saying goes, “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me”. I doubt the Israelis will ever be fooled again. Any knowing their effectiveness, Hamas is being dismantled under the hood as we speak.
        
        35 6
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:43am
      - Spoff
        
        I don’t care to define genocide. Israel’s Dahiya Doctrine alone is sufficiently reprehensible:
        “The Dahiya doctrine, also spelled Dahya or Dahieh,[1] is an Israeli military strategy involving the large-scale destruction of civilian infrastructure, to pressure hostile governments.[2][3][4][5] The doctrine was outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot. Israel colonel Gabi Siboni wrote that Israel “should target economic interests and the centers of civilian power that support the organization”. The logic is to cause difficulties for the civilian population so much that they will then turn against the militants, forcing the enemy to sue for peace.[6][7][4]”
        Wikipedia.
        “The doctrine has been used in Gaza during the four previous wars since 2008, especially the 2014 war. In those four wars, the IDF killed about 5,000 Palestinians, mostly civilians, for the loss of 350 of their own soldiers and about 30 civilians. In the 2014 war, Gaza’s main power station was damaged in an IDF attack and half of Gaza’s then population of 1.8 million people were affected by water shortages, hundreds of thousands lacked power and raw sewage flooded on to streets.
        Even earlier, after the 2008-9 war in Gaza, the UN published a fact-finding report that concluded that the Israeli strategy had been “designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population”.
        – Paul Rogers is emeritus professor of peace studies at Bradford University and an honorary fellow at the Joint Service Command and Staff College
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/israel-disproportionate-force-tactic-infrastructure-economy-civilian-casualties
        
        4 7
        Report
        October 14, 2026 11:04am
      - Cassandra
        
        Spiff: the Guardian? Really?
        
        8 3
        Report
        October 14, 2026 2:19pm
    - Bullion
      
      Intent:
      
      Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told lawmakers during closed-door testimony before the the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee yesterday that Israel is “destroying more and more houses [in Gaza and Palestinians accordingly] have nowhere to return,” according to quotes from the session leaked to the media.
      
      “The only obvious result will be Gazans choosing to emigrate outside of the Strip,” Netanyahu continued. “But our main problem is finding countries to take them in.”
      
      https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pm-said-to-tell-mks-israel-destroying-homes-in-gaza-so-palestinians-have-nowhere-else-to-go-but-outside-the-strip/
      
      There are so many quotes of Israeli MPs saying something along those lines, for instance:
      
      An Israeli government minister has vowed that “Gaza will be entirely destroyed” as a result of an Israeli military victory, and that its Palestinian population will “leave in great numbers to third countries”, raising fears of ethnic cleansing in the occupied territory.
      
      The declaration on Tuesday by the finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, came a day after Israel’s security cabinet approved a plan for Operation Gideon’s Chariots, which an Israeli official said would entail “the conquest of the Gaza Strip and the holding of the territories”.
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/06/hamas-israel-hunger-war-in-gaza
      
      Google is free.
      
      6 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:54am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    So 250 “hostages” is genocide?
    
    8 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 8:34am
  - Cassandra
    
    mike: it’s not “ legally”, that’s what the UN said. It doesn’t pass the common sense test. Genocide must, surely, be a deliberate act to destroy a people or a community. Was the naval blockade of Germany in WW1 genocide? Was Hiroshima? 3% of Gaza’s population has died. Many are combatants. Many are collateral. Hamas steals aid so it can kill Jews. Is stopping the aid genocide?
    
    40 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 8:57am
    - Drone
      
      In every thread about the atrocities in Gaza nobody every mentions the Israeli Hannibal Directive that saw the IDF forces killing innocent Israeli citizens, or mentions the fact the at Hamas offered to release the hostages within 24 hours but Netenyahu refused to consider the proposal choosing instead to wage genocide on the population of Gaza.
      
      5 8
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 1:24pm
      - Sane Voice
        
        What is the connection in this thread to the Hannibal Directive?
        
        2 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 2:53pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Drone, wasting your time introducing facts to this thread of Zionist supporters having a rant.
        
        It’s interesting that Israeli investigative reporters have unearthed 14 deaths from friendly fire (Hannibal Directive) within 12 months of the event.
        While the IDF/Government still refuses to release information that could identify others killed by IDF.
        
        FACT. * 8 helicopter gunships were in the area shooting at vehicles.
        
        FACT. Pilots reporting not knowing if occupants were invaders or Israelis or a mix. But told to shoot anyway.
        FACT: One Israeli was identified as being shot by a helicopter gunship.
        
        In my simple mind, 8 gunships firing at vehicles!!!!
        The statistical probability out of the 1000-1200 (destroyed vehicles are kept in a large “graveyard” in Israel) is that some would have contained Israelis
        
        1 4
        Report
        October 14, 2026 7:18pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Your definition doesn’t add up to genocide in this case. Clearly Israel doesn’t intend to destroy a National, racial or religious group. If they did they would have already done so. They have the military superiority to have done so very quickly, they obviously chose not to.
    
    Also if you are genociding a group it is highly unusual to supply any medical or food to support to the group.
    
    So yeah, Israel NOT genociding the Palestinians.
    
    34 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:00am
    - mike
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      It’s not my definition – it’s the definition used by 15o countries, including Israel.
      
      5 35
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:02am
      - RoboRob
        
        Yes, I know, and it doesn’t ‘prove’ that Israel is genocidal. I wish people would stop using emotive language and actually focus on what is happening. It’s not good, but calling it genocide makes your arguments weaker.
        
        23 5
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:11am
      - mike
        
        You may be right – the ICC has only charged Hamas and Israeli leaders with the crime of extermination. The UN commission of inquiry went further.
        
        4 29
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:34am
    - Ross Bayer
      
      Robo,
      on these sensitive areas I tend to rely on people who are more knowledgeable than myself as my opinion carries little weight.
      maybe we could listen to Jeffry Sachs who is Jewish and I know he does not in any way support the actions of Israel in GAZA.
      Maybe some of the deaths on 7 October were due to implementation of the Hannibal directive as well
      
      2 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:58am
      - RoboRob
        
        The problem is that you can find ‘experts’ who say all sorts of things. There are arab experts arguing in Israels favour too.
        
        At some point you need to make up your own mind. Remember that lots of ‘Experts’ have their own agendas too. Lest we forget the COVID ‘experts’ and their ‘wise’ advice.
        
        6 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 3:03pm
  - R
    
    Mike, that is another of your ideologically derived definitions; unsupportable by real life experience and facts.
    
    5 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:35am
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    To make your stance work, Hamas would have to be one of ” national, ethnical, racial or religious group”.
    
    They are none of these. They are a terrorist group.
    
    I am sure that most Israelis, and the Israeli state in general, would prefer to have the situation as it was on 6 October 2023:
    * Gazans could come and go to work in Israel – for the betterment of people in both countries.
    * Gazans could travel to Israel for medical treatment.
    
    That doesn’t sound like trying to wipe out a national, ethnic, racial or religious group to me. When Israel was actually giving people medical assistance it is very difficult to sell the idea that they were trying to wipe the people out.
    
    30 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:36am
    - mike
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Genocide wouldn’t apply if only the terrorists were targeted.
      
      4 35
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:03am
      - Yabster
        
        go over to Gaza then Mike and politely ask Hamas to stop hiding in tunnels under Hospitals etc- I am sure they will be accommodating- if you don’t come back for a time, I am sure your public service job will be held open for you and you will probably still get paid- win win really…
        
        8 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:26am
      - Hugh Jarse
        
        Genocide involves the intent to carry out certain acts against a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Hamas is a terrorist group, it does not fit the UN definition of group which is the key word here.
        Secondly Hamas carried out a deliberate invasion of Israel, slaughtering at least 1200 people in a predetermined and brutal way.
        
        Their provocation was deliberate and big enough to guarantee Israel would respond. It is not too much of a stretch to say that Hamas carried out this attack in a manner that they knew would get the response it did.
        
        Unfortunately for the Palestinians , their leaderships harbours the terrorist making it hard to weed them out with inflicting civilian casualties. Blame Hamas not Israel.
        
        8 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:54am
      - Sane Voice
        
        Do you ever stop to think what you are saying before you say it?
        
        Your comment really does make you sound like you don’t.
        
        It was a totally absurd thing to say given the reality in which Hama operate. A reality already explained multiple times.
        
        4 3
        Report
        October 14, 2026 11:03am
      - Jigsaw
        
        How can the IDF target only the terrorists when they (the terrorists ) deliberately hide amongst the civilian population who of course are happy for this to happen? You posting don’t match the facts of make any sense at all.
        
        6 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 11:15am
      - cmm (semi-retired edition)
        
        You have evidence that non-terrorists are being targeted on a routine basis?
        
        We know there have been a few soldiers that have gone outside of their authority and smashed things or abused a few people and maybe even killed a few people. To my understanding they have been dealt with as is appropriate. Shitheads happen.
        
        We know (and expect) “fog of war” damage where civilians get shot by mistake or such. Shit happens.
        
        But is there evidence of actual systematic targeting of non-combatants to achieve non-military goals?
        
        23 5
        Report
        October 14, 2026 11:31am
      - cmm (semi-retired edition)
        
        As I suspected… some down ticks, but no evidence.
        
        C’mon show me some bayoneted babies or something.
        
        17 4
        Report
        October 14, 2026 12:25pm
      - Spoff
        
        ‘I’ve operated on children targeted by drones in Gaza,’ British surgeon says | BBC News
        Dr Nizam Mamode is a surgeon who has recently returned from Gaza, and he told the BBC about his experiences working and operating in Gaza, including with children.
        https://youtu.be/egemCaZ1NIg
        
        “Nick Maynard, a consultant surgeon at Oxford University hospital, has said in recent interviews with Zeteo and other media that he and other doctors in Gaza have noted a pattern of injuries in Israeli shootings of aid seekers at Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) sites. Groups of boys, ranging from ages 11 to 16, will come into the hospital with gunshot wounds all on a specific part of the body, Maynard says.
        “There were clusters of particular body parts being injured on particular days,” Maynard told Zeteo on Sunday. “One day, they would be coming in predominantly with gunshot wounds to the head or the neck. Most of them died, clearly. The next day, there’d be gunshot wounds to the chest, the next day, the abdomen, the next day, the legs or the arms.”
        “One day, which was at the end of my third week, on the Saturday evening, four young teenage boys — 13, 14 — came in, all of whom had been shot in the testicles,” Maynard went on.
        https://truthout.org/articles/israel-using-children-in-gaza-as-target-practice-uk-doctor-says/
        
        “In an interview with FRANCE 24, US surgeon Mark Perlmutter claimed that Israeli snipers are deliberately targeting children in Gaza. Perlmutter said that while he was volunteering at the European hospital of Khan Younis in southern Gaza earlier this year, he “saw two children that were shot twice”. He added: “No child gets shot twice by mistake.”
        https://youtu.be/314hldiBKlw
        
        “A meticulous investigative report by the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant documenting the deliberate targeting of children in Gaza has been awarded the European Press Prize 2026, one of the continent’s most prestigious journalism honours.
        The award-winning piece, titled “What the Wounds Tell,” was authored by De Volkskrant journalists Maud Effting and Willem Feenstra, who documented 114 cases of children under the age of 15 who were each struck by a single bullet to the head or chest. Nearly all of them died or were left severely disabled.
        https://www.trtworld.com/article/cc649afa8c91
        
        ‘They specifically target children’: British surgeon tells of harrowing scenes in Gaza.
        Doctor Victoria Rose, a consultant plastic surgeon, has recently returned to the UK from Gaza.
        At a panel event hosted by the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians, she discusses different cases and scenarios she had to deal with, and details the conditions of the northern Gaza.
        https://youtu.be/0jlT-NRx-u4
        
        “In a searing address to the UN Security Council meeting on the Middle East and Gaza, American trauma surgeon Dr. Feroze Sidhwa delivered a first-hand account of Gaza’s collapsing healthcare system, drawing from his two medical missions to Khan Younis. “”I am not here as a policymaker, but as a physician bearing witness to the deliberate destruction of healthcare, the targeting of my colleagues, and the erasure of a people,”
        https://youtu.be/W5B1MO1PW3M
        
        1 7
        Report
        October 14, 2026 1:24pm
      - cmm (semi-retired edition)
        
        Hey Spoff
        
        “‘I’ve operated on children targeted by drones in Gaza,’ British surgeon says”
        
        How would the surgeon know they were specifically targeted and not just fog of war injuries?
        
        Remember that the Hamas is hiding amongst the population and using the population as a human shield. That is a war crime.
        
        It is within the rules of war to winkle them out, even if some collateral damage is experienced.
        
        Where are the lefties telling Hamas to fight like men?
        
        0 1
        Report
        October 15, 2026 8:34am
      - Spoff
        
        Dr Mamode addresses this very question in the first 2 minutes of the interview. Did you watch it? I guess not.
        As for the “Human shields” trope, Israel’s Dahiya doctrine has demonstrated that the IDF do not respect civilian lives. On the contrary, civilians and civilian infrastructure are deliberately targeted. The doctrine’s first large-scale test beyond Lebanon came during Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military campaign in Gaza from December 2008 to January 2009 that began after Israel broke a ceasefire strictly observed by Hamas.
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Israelis_killed_by_Palestinians_in_Israel_and_Palestinians_killed_by_Israelis_in_Gaza_-_2008_prior_to_Gaza_War.png?utm_source=en.wikipedia.org&utm_campaign=imageinfo&utm_content=thumbnail_unscaled
        The operation killed approximately 1,400 Palestinians, the majority of them civilians. Large sections of Gaza City and northern Gaza were systematically destroyed. The pattern was recognizable: entire neighborhoods leveled in operations that far exceeded what would be necessary to neutralize specific military targets – so what would change if Hamas were somehow magically transported outside of their confines in one of the most densely populated areas (21,000 people per square mile) on the planet to do battle is anyones guess but mine would be – nothing. Israel would still utilise Dahiya as the have done in Lebanon since 2006.
        The late Reuven Paz, Israel’s expert on Islam and Islamist movements in the Arab and Muslim world has stated that 95% of Hamas revenue is spent on Law Enforcement, Social welfare, Health, Education, Ambulance Services and food aid etc.
        How then can “Hamas” divorce itself from the civilian population?
        How come you did not know this?
        Do you think around 300 journalists killed by the IDF might be the reason?
        Hint: 17 journalists and media workers have been killed in the line of duty in the Russo-Ukrainian War.
        
        0 0
        Report
        October 15, 2026 11:04am
    - Taieri
      
      They are a terrorist group
      ———–
      
      That they certainly are.
      But they also belong to a certain “racial”, ethnic and religious category.
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:42am
    - Bullion
      
      How gracious. They’ve blockaded Gaza for years limiting what and who can go in and out, but Israel permitted a limited number of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to enter Israel for urgent or specialized medical treatment through specific coordination and exit permits.
      
      4 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:59am
      - Handyman
        
        To be precise Israel has blockaded Israel for years. That is what sovereign countries do: protect their borders.
        Gaza had other borders, one with Egypt, also a sovereign country. Same deal.
        Prior to the Oct 7 invasion by Gaza of Israel, Gaza was an independent state. All previous Jewish residents had been forcably removed (by Israel) to allow Gaza to have its own elections and its own government. Israel provided power and water but had no role in the governance of Gaza.
        
        4 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 2:49pm
      - Spoff
        
        Dov Weisglass, a top adviser to the late Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, conveyed the real reasons behind the withdrawal from Gaza.
        “Weisglass knew exactly what he was saying; after all, he was one of the architects of the plan…..
        
        “The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process,” Weisglass told Haaretz in 2004. It was not the peace process that mattered to Israel, but the fact that, so long as such political conversations were still taking place, the Palestinian political agenda remained relevant.
        
        This logic, long argued by Palestinians, was supported by Weisglass himself, when he said that “When you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem.”
        https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/israel-gaza-formaldehyde
        
        0 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 4:22pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Cmm. Your emotions running awaay again CMM.
      
      “”To make your stance work, Hamas would have to be one of ” national, ethnical, racial or religious group”.
      
      They are none of these. They are a terrorist group.””
      
      Yous eem to forget that Hamas is a political party that won an election that with others have been the Government of Gaza.
      
      It has been labeled by Zionists and its supporters as terrorists.
      Much of the world however sees them as freedom fighters against Zionist oppression.
      
      But like all emotionally held beliefs. No facts or other information will change your mind.
      
      Like dedicated islamists, you have your view and thats all you belive. NO problem for me others having different opinions. It just gets tedious when you want to push your beliefs down my metaphophical throat.
      
      1 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 6:09pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    Mike your argument falls over on multiple points
    
    – there has to be proven “intent”. The only intent Israel had was targeting Hamas combatants, not civilians. Israel warned civilians, moved them out of operational areas and even conducted a massive polio vaccination campaign. That shows zero intent to mass kill a civilian population
    – the ICC refined the very loose UN definition by adding “substantive” to “part”. There is no way a civilian death count of around 2% is substantive and especially since they were collateral damage. Based on your narrow world view the bombing of London or Dresden should be reclassified as a genocide
    – the ICC and UN has never formally labelled Gaza as a genocide. That was from a preliminary report that was never finalised and the presiding judge was fired for sexual assault.
    
    If you want to use the UN definition then the only genocide carried out was on October 7th where Hamas had proven intent to kill civilians and they did kill a substantive part of every civilian they came across.
    
    7 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 11:29am
  - wilderbeast
    
    Meantime the Arab Muslim population within Israel has increased exponentially in recent decades. Cherry picking information to paint a picture of genocide for naked political purposes is an insult to the victims of actual genocide and other far more heinous acts happening at the hands genuinely evil state actors (and which you choose to ignore). Where is the virtue in that?
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 2:47pm
- David George
  
  The Israelis are busy sorting out the perpetrators of the October 7th invasion – over 4,000 now eliminated, a couple of thousand to go.
  Perhaps the protestors should demand Hamas and Islamic Jihad hand the terrorists over to justice; see how that goes.
  
  44 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:21am
  - Drone
    
    How many Israeli citizens did the IDF kill on 7 Oct…
    
    2 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 1:26pm
- kowtow
  
  1948.
  
  All the darlings studiously ignore that Jews were no longer welcome ( if they ever really were) across the whole of North Africa and the ME or some odd reason) .Those countries are essentially Jewless , while Israel’s population includes some 20% Arab with full rights of citizenship.
  
  And talking of democracy and political rights in the UK , the first Green MP elected to parliament , Caroline Lucas , now faces calls to be expelled from her own party over their anti semitic motions at their recent conference.
  
  6 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:22am
  - Spoff
    
    This Israeli does not agree:
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3W7t9qVNpq4?feature=share
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 4:51pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  What do you think would change if there were two states? The new ‘Palestinian’ state would still attack Israel and Israel would still retailiate. It would be harder for Israel to prevent Iran shipping rockets and rocket parts to Gaza. That would be the main difference.
  
  32 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:36am
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    The two state solution is a dream with pink ponies and pet unicorns. It is nice to believe it is possible, but, practically, it is not.
    
    That is why some years ago the IDF changed over to their policy of “mowing the lawn”. This means living with some degree of terrorism, but keeping it to a low enough level so that it does not interfere too much with the normal functioning of society.
    
    22 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:40am
    - RoboRob
      
      Yes, the two state solution is the feel good, politician answer to ‘what can we do’. It clearly can’t work with Hamas as a partner and Iran using one of the ‘states’ as an attack vector.
      
      20 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:19am
  - Bullion
    
    What’s the solution, two states? one state with Palestinians becoming citizens with equal rights as Israelis? one state with ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
    
    Everyone knows which one the Israeli Govt wants and its policies lean towards.
    
    3 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:03pm
- Master Mariner
  
  “There’s a simple way to end this. Recognise Israel, stop attacking and negotiate a two state solution, as Israel offered the Arabs 30 years ago. Again! First offered in 1948.”
  Yep and this all died when Yatzick Rabin was asassinated by a Netanyahu Follower.
  There was a reason the widower refused to acknowledge Netanyahu at his funeral.
  Rabin was a true believer in a 2 state solution, Netanyahu Never. Hence the promotion of Hamas and Hezbollah on his borders.
  I find it ironic that the UN came up with Genocide Convention in 1948? because of the Holocaust.
  As stated previously i am not anti semetic ( Incidently why does Israel have a term just for themselves ?, Closest thing is South Africa and Apartheid ).
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_Gaza_genocide
  Yetanayu and his Lunatic party are taking the world into a Religous fanatical scorched Earth war which may include Nuclear, Such is there fanatism and Religous fervour.
  Still waiting to find out ” if confirmed “, Prior knowledge of Oct 7th attack by Egypt and UAE pre attack. The truth will prevail eventually any investigation is closed down due to the “War” etc.
  There are too many false flags and information coming out of Israel but if you join the dots then on the ballance of probabilities then “The Greater Israel Project” and Genocide go hand in hand.
  
  1 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:42am
- Scott
  
  Can’t agree with you Cassandra. A two state solution is not realistic. Hamas doesn’t want two states. They want one state.
  
  The Green party in Great Britain are now on record, they want one state. One Palestinian state and no Israel. So that’s where many of the western liberal elites are as well.
  
  You can’t negotiate peace with a group that doesn’t accept your right to exist.
  
  7 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:43am
  - Cassandra
    
    I agree, Scott. Implicit in the two state solution is Arabian acceptance of Israel and peace.
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 2:25pm
- Ra Henare
  
  So you got upset when innocent civilians were killed by a Hamas-led military invasion of Israel.
  
  But tens of thousands of innocent civilians, including tens of thousands of women and children, killed in Gaza are apparently of no real importance. It’s unavoidable, you say?
  
  “negotiate a two-state solution, as Israel offered the Arabs 30 years ago. Again! First offered in 1948.””
  
  I suggest you do some more reading of actual history rather than some propagandist version.
  
  The UN resolution was strongly opposed by ALL 13 Arab members of the UN with the 38 votes to allow it being predominately driven by strong votes from major players who had strong Jewish populations.
  
  The offer by Israel you refer to 1948?
  There was no offer from Israel to create a two-state solution or establish peace terms with the Arab states in 1948.
  
  The so-called offer 30 years ago, Camp David and Oslo accords.
  
  Palestinian negotiators (Arafat) argued the offer lacked true sovereignty. They viewed the proposed state as a non-viable collection of enclaves interrupted by Israeli-controlled roads, borders, and airspace.
  
  I am not defending the October 7th invasion. It was terrible.
  The same as the 3 years of continuous mass killings by the IDF.
  
  What I take exception to is emotions being presented as truth and the complete lack of humanity by some commentators when brushing off the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents.
  
  An IDF airman recently recounted orders some time ago to bomb a building with 500 people because IDF suspected one person of interest was in the building.
  
  So a target (person) in a building is ok (residential area, you say) to reduce the building to rubble.
  
  Google Earth has just released satellite photos of the current Gaza area. You might like to look for yourself at the destruction.
  
  Everything is Rubble, shops, schools, mosques EVERYTHING.
  
  Unfortunately, Cass, you and others are so emotionally engaged that reason and facts will not change your opinion that mass killings are ok.
  
  4 11
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:46am
  - Cassandra
    
    Ra: I have studied the ME for 60 years. I’ve read almost everything published apart from Smotrich and Sachs. And the Guardian.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 2:28pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Guess you need to read alternative views Cass?
      Not just material that supports your emotionally held beliefs??
      
      1 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 6:12pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Meanwhile in NZ taxpayers have given over $80,000 to the Free Palestinian Party who not only have publicly stated they don’t want any votes as it’s all about free publicity of their anti Israel stance, BUT
  
  In front of the war memorial in ChCh their party leader this week is on video celebrating the “victory of October 7th”.
  
  So the Electoral Commission has okayed not only public funding to a party who clearly is just using the money for free advertising but also publicly celebrated the rape and murder of young women and children.
  
  10 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 11:10am
  - Ra Henare
    
    What about the parties that support the rape and murder of young women and children.
    
    I am not talking the handful of the children killed on October 7th. I am talking about the tens of thousands of children killed since then.
    
    I might point out that ACT got $345,254 from the electoral commission and ardently supports Israel.
    
    I support neither party, but just point out thet we live in a representative democracy, and as such there will be political opinions that are different to ours.
    
    An educational piece of information. Which invalidates your rant about useage of funds.
    
    Like all broadcasting allocations under New Zealand’s Broadcasting Act 1989, the $78,887 cannot be paid out as direct cash for operational expenses; it can only be used to pay for TV, radio, and online election advertising or advertising production costs during the campaign period.
    
    1 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 6:20pm
    - Southern Raider
      
      Provide examples where Israel has been raping young women and children in Gaza
      
      Lots of evidence including UN reports about sexual violence and rape on Oct 7th, nothing on your baseless claims.
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 7:40pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        You are obviously unable to use Google, or is it your Israeli only do Good lens?
        UN reports, Amnesty International, amongst others, report sexual violence/rape against Palestinian women.
        
        UN Special Procedures Statement (February 2024): A panel of independent UN experts (including Special Rapporteurs on violence against women and on the situation in Palestinian territories) The report highlighted credible allegations that Palestinian women and girls in Gaza and the West Bank were subjected to:Arbitrary execution, physical assault, and severe beating.Rape or threats of rape and sexual violence while in Israeli detention or during raids.
        
        UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR): Detailed reports on Israeli detention facilities (such as Sde Teiman and Megiddo prisons) documented widespread severe mistreatment, including blindfolding, sleep deprivation, beatings, and instances of sexual assault, sexualized torture, and humiliation against both male and female detainees.
        
        UN Commission of Inquiry Findings: UN independent bodies documented incidents where military personnel or guards used threats of sexual assault against female family members as an interrogation tactic or coercively published degrading photos of female detainees online.
        
        0 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:21pm
- KH
  
  There is no benefit in arguing definitions. But it’s clear killing 70,000 and counting in Gaza is seriously evil and must stop. But it won’t. It’s been happening for 100 years.
  And the remorseless despicable actions on the West Bank underline it.
  Make no mistake. Israel is not a nation like us. Yet kiwibloggers seem to think so.
  
  3 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 12:14pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Attacks on Jews started (actually restarted) a hundred years ago. The Mufti inspired massacres in the 1930s. Both sides do evil things. The difference is that Israel could be motivated to stop.
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 2:31pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      So you think Israel will give up its Greater Israel project in favour of peace with Palestine…
      
      shuffle shuffle. Just looking for the details of a bridge you would be desperate to buy.
      
      1 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 6:48pm
      - Southern Raider
        
        There is no greater Israel project except in the minds of antisemites
        
        1 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 7:41pm
Scott

Following the small parties leaders debate on TV1 last night I watched the panel of journalists who reviewed the debate. There was Toby Manhire who is the editor of the Spinoff, a leftist publication. He worked at the Guardian, leftist and also for The Listener, leftist. So he’s a leftist.
Guyon Espiner, another journalist, who has worked at The Listener, leftist and Radio NZ, also leftist.

Heather Du Plessis Allen, the token slightly on the right. According to her, Seymour made a mistake bringing in Treaty principles into the debate. Rawiri however was all in on Treaty centric and that’s all good according to her.

Diversity is not a strength according to Winston. That’s no good according to the panel. Diversity is a strength is an assumption they all share.

According to them Winston was the weakest. The Opportunity woman they raved about.

So a heavily left wing panel loved left wing ideas. And Heather resented the race relations comments, it’s not what people are interested in according to her. She obviously doesn’t read Kiwiblog or watch anything on The Platform.

One day maybe we will have an actual right wing person on a panel like this one? But that day is still far off.
Jack Tame chairing the panel was actually quite sensible and down the middle. The rest, not so much. 🤔
10 3
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:04am
artemisia

Herald yesterday. Greg Foran, ex Air NZ and now heading up US grocer Kroger, is planning to cut corporate headcount by more than a third. 3,000 corporate roles to go.

The reductions will help the company put more resources towards cutting prices, improving shopping experience and investing in frontline employees, Foran wrote

And right there is a short, sharp and stellar plan that New Zealand enterprises – public and private sectors – could and should adopt immediately. Including placing a large copy on every staff noticeboard and in every staff break room.
33 2
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I would love to see a task force to abolish the Ministry of Education and start again. Honestly, I would be part of it for no charge. I would be happy with a stipend of $400 per week to cover my costs.
  
  Will the Government act on this next term? I doubt it.
  
  43 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:45am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Its a Ministry of Education in the Orwellian sense only.
    
    That it employs so many people is an indication of its importance and true purpose as the wellspring of indoctrination.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 8:57am
  - RoboRob
    
    No, they wont.
    
    25 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:01am
    - pdm
      
      Get 20 plus ACT MP’s and the Government probably will move on Education.
      
      16 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 12:53pm
      - RoboRob
        
        I’m and Act supporter, I’m not sure even Seymour wants to disestablish the MOE and start again.
        
        Certainly from my perspective, wife works for the MOE, some parts are highly functional and well run. My wives department seems to make sound business decisions, allocate staff wisely and prove good (but not over the top) equipment. They even have a small support staff overhead, with an IT dept of 2 for hundreds.
        
        8 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 1:10pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Can we please do the Ministry of Health too?
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 10:47am
  - Paulus
    
    Imagine the Feminist Nati0nal Revolution if any non Labour Government tried to do anything but support their Marxist views and intentions.
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:03pm
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    As Willis has told us many times, they’re Green Blue (??or was that Blue Green??).
    
    They might give some new direction on testing and 3Rs, but they are not going to do anything too drastic.
    
    12 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:23pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m very pleased to see that it is now relatively easy for parents to view exactly what their child should be being taught at each year level in maths.
    
    https://newzealandcurriculum.tahurangi.education.govt.nz/new-zealand-curriculum-online/nzc—mathematics-and-statistics-phase-2-years-4-6/5637289332.p
    
    As a parent, I found it absolutely perplexing wading through the previous curricula on the web-site.
    There were “kete” of learnings and “levels” (which didn’t directly equate to year levels) and you had to download separate pdfs for examples, resources, etc…and so much of it was verbiage.
    
    e.g.
    
    Try and tell me what a pupil should be covering in year 4 technology or covered in Year 6 science
    
    https://newzealandcurriculum.tahurangi.education.govt.nz/the-new-zealand-curriculum—technology/5637209125.p
    
    https://newzealandcurriculum.tahurangi.education.govt.nz/the-new-zealand-curriculum—science/5637209897.p
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 1:53pm
- Colville
  
  From my single experience of Foran I can state emphatically that if he arranges to speak to all the management for 20 minutes at least a third of them will swallow their own tongues in an effort to die rather than endue any more torture, which would be a innovative way to reduce the headcount.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:54am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Some random thoughts and observations.
  Opportunity. I dont think they will make it. Their Leader is polling 10% in Mt Albert a distant 4th to Helen White and Melissa Lee who are neck and neck followed by the Green candidate. I suspect their sticky support is around 4% with the balance those who arent enrolled and those who wont vote. A third of 18/24 yo arent enrolled and many of them will be tempted by the Free Money.
  Greens. On current polling they are on to win 20 seats with Labour winning around 34. In past elections the gap was much greater and Labour could ignore Green policy. This time I suspect we might see a Wealth Tax in some form. Labour will welcome the revenue and blame the Greens.
  Maori Party. Polls are as usual all over the place due to the small numbers. Looks like TTT will be won by the break away candidate with MP holding at least a couple of seats.
  Its going to be close but if Opportunity fail to cross the line the current Government will prevail IMHO.
  
  29 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:06am
  - Flossie
    
    Hope you’re right.
    
    21 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:14am
  - Cassandra
    
    Wong polling 10% if transferred to Party is disaster.
    
    14 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:18am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    BTW. In the Mt Albert poll Cindy and Hulun both registered a couple of percentage points support. Reinforces my belief that only those who have passed an IQ test and a political knowledge test should be able to vote.
    
    22 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:23am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      There’s a very comfortable smugness in assuming people with different beliefs are stupid. And it often flies in the face of the evidence – unfortunately, most of the smartest people at my workplace are woke.
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:27am
    - David Garrett
      
      lastman: Great idea…never going to happen
      
      12 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:33am
    - Taieri
      
      only those who have passed an IQ test
      ————
      
      Ted Kaczynski would qualify.
      AKA The Unabomber, for those with shorter memory…
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:44am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Only those who have passed an IQ test
      
      Might shut out the odd oldie …. 🙂
      
      1 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 6:11pm
      - Taieri
        
        I hope you pass, whadd’ya reckon?
        
        1 1
        Report
        October 14, 2026 6:48pm
  - thetiedarch
    
    You may be right, but I worry about overseas voters. They tend to skew left, specifically towards the greens out of some farcical idea they’re actually green. I can see that transferring to TOP out of the mistaken belief TOP’s ideas would work.
    
    I predict a protracted period in which the new government isn’t confirmed until after overseas votes are counted.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:26am
    - rouppe
      
      I’m voting overseas this year.
      
      I won’t skew left. Nor will the witness.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 5:40pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Same (not vote left) and other Oseas Kiwis I know.
        
        2 1
        Report
        October 14, 2026 6:37pm
  - sungsamning
    
    I sure hope TOP don’t make it. New Zealand doesn’t need the Four Horse Persons of the Taxpocalypse running things.
    
    11 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:29am
  - leoj
    
    Still 12% of those polled have yet to decide.
    
    As of now, some pollsters are trying to shape opinion. The polls of the final week will be the most accurate, or the pollsters will have egg all over their leftist faces.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 10:36am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Some pollsters are trying to shape opinion
      
      Rubbish. Their credibility depends on doing it by the book. If they come up with answers you don’t like that’s fair enough.
      
      If you “just know” that the poll figures do not represent real opinions out there …. what can I say 🙂
      
      1 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 6:10pm
      - leoj
        
        See DPF’s piece on the “Poll of Polls” – 14/10/26 PM
        
        5 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 7:40pm
  - pdm
    
    Zero support in the area of hastings I have been door knocking for ACT over the last 5 weeks.
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:56pm
- MCōs
  
  Reminds me of the Vietnam War when the Americans announced impressive sounding body counts in the thousands of enemy combatants, but still lost the war.
  Is this Kroger crowd in the shit and they’ve brought Foran in to do the dirty work?
  https://chainstoreage.com/albertsons-suing-kroger-8b-over-failed-merger
  
  5 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:35am
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    It is close to impossible to win a guerilla war. Wars where this have happened have needed overwhelming superiority and still took a long time.
    
    15 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:44am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Malaysian crisis of the 1950s
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 10:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      Cmm: I find it interesting and somewhat amusing that you still meet Yanks who deny they lost in Vietnam
      
      6 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 1:35pm
      - Jack5
        
        But there are defeats and defeats …. from the devastation of Germany on one hand, to Britain and France withdrawing from their colonies on the other.
        
        Who won? The US paid no war reparations to Vietnam.
        
        Who won? The US suffered the loss of nearly 60,000 Americans, as NZ lost about 45 people, and Australia lost about 350.
        
        Vietnam lost about 1.1 million soldiers and about 2 million civilians.
        
        Who won the political war? This article from 15 years ago explains how Vietnam by then had become largely capitalist:
        
        https://worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/vietnam-where-capitalism-thrives-communists-rule-and-dissent-whispers-from-the-walls/
        
        7 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 3:33pm
- R
  
  A bloated unproductive administration section in government; and private enterprise, particularly mid management level, seems to be the root cause of so many business failures and unproductive incompetent government departments.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:39am
- Observer of Life
  
  I wonder why Foran didn’t do a better job than he did with Air NZ then? Hopeless….
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 11:21am
NeverMindTheBollocks

This is just embarrassing.

A Maori Party candidate got herself a chin tattoo, and it took just 90 minutes. That’s because the work was done by a modern needle machine.

Whatever happened to tattoos being done by tohungas with mallet and chisel? Because that’s the traditional way to get a traditional tattoo. Sure, it takes longer and hurts (much) more. But if you want a culturally significant tattoo then it needs to be done in a culturally significant manner.

Go hard or go home, eh. Otherwise, it’s just mana-diminishing.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/361045748/te-pati-maori-candidate-receives-her-moko-kauae-campaign-trail
10 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:12am
Mod88

I noticed on the debate last night the Media Party, fronted by Tova this time, are going all in on the Wong/Opportunity Party as their darlings.
10 2
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:20am
RW Capitalist

TV3 debate
Thoughts
Seymour………..Actual informed us and was measured
Waititi…. As expected for content, but more measured here
Winston Peters… Pretty usual , unexpectedly quiet
Qiulae Wong….. Not across her facts, easily wound up, seemed to have a Grouch Marx moment (“I have standards, If you don’t like them, I have others”)
Chloe….AHHH Chloe Chloe Chloe….what to say
Easily wound up by Qiulae, stealing your patch?
BTW how are you going to deliver those 150 supermarkets?
I gather compulsory purchase, if so, who’s business is next?
Also how’s Mamdani’s supermarket grab going, or free buses. Last I heard, it’s YEARS away.
11 1
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:31am
Yvette

In the end statements of each ‘minor’ parties political debate on ONE yesterday evening –
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi said his party would entrench Te Tiriti o Waitangi, restore rangatiratanga and build an economy focused on “people rather than privilege”, while protecting the mana of Papatūānuku – 1 News

Surely “entrench Te Tiriti o Waitangi” contradicts “restore rangatiratanga” and until that is sorted out the Treaty should not be entrenched.
33 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:40am
- mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Nothing in the treaty removed rangatiratanga. It had, chiefs would not have signed.
  
  3 39
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:53am
  - RoboRob
    
    I looked up the word…
    
    “Rangatiratanga” is a word used in Article 2 of the Maori language version of the Treaty. It was used at that time, in that context, to convey the idea of chiefly authority. In modern times rangatiratanga has come to be the word used to jointly express three contemporary Maori aspirations: the aspiration to improve the economic position of Maori; the aspiration to have more autonomy over things that affect Maori and; the aspiration to have more influence over decisions that affect everyone. While all of these aspirations are very important the last of these amounts to an aspiration to alter New Zealand’s fluid, unwritten constitution.
    
    I read that as co governance right? So that would be a major change to the idea the crown is sovereign, even if some of our politicians are too busy playing popularism to admit it.
    
    26 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:06am
    - cmm (semi-retired edition)
      
      Run the rag through the shredder.
      
      If the meaning of words can change so much, then they are meaningless.
      
      This is a major problem with an unwritten language. Words do not have a fixed meaning and just change at the whim of the guy with the biggest club.
      
      33 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 9:48am
      - Taieri
        
        This is a major problem with an unwritten language
        ———–
        
        It really stretches my imagination that such a short, simple document can have so wide and ever expanding interpretation…
        
        6 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 10:49am
      - Ra Henare
        
        In the written English language, words change regularly.
        My favourite is Gay.
        Currently on its third meaning since I was a lad.
        
        4 1
        Report
        October 14, 2026 6:54pm
  - Inandout
    
    mike, of the chiefs who did sign (in one form or another) uttermost on their minds was ending the Musket Wars which was decimating the tribes. One tribe at the time may have had a hierarchy system but the armed tribe from across the hill would dismantle that notion with a few well aimed shots.
    
    11 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:23am
  - Yvette
    
    Mike
    
    Article 1
    • Māori Text: Māori chiefs give the Queen kāwanatanga (governance or governorship) over their land, which Māori leaders understood as the right to control British settlers rather than losing control over their own affairs
    • English Text: Māori chiefs cede absolute sovereignty (complete authority) over their territories to Queen Victoria.
    
    Article 2
    The Queen guarantees to Māori the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship (tino rangatiratanga) over their lands, villages, and all their treasures (ngā taonga katoa)
    
    So at the moment there is no agreement on Article 1
    What does entrenching a disagreement into New Zealand law do, except perpetuate it and make it more difficult to resolve.
    
    And if a major factor in establishing the Treaty was “the right to control British settlers”, and that has been superseded by time and events, what is the Treaty for: if not the portion that is an unresolved dispute?
    
    15 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:43am
  - virtualmark
    
    Mike, not sure why you’re getting downticked on this one.
    
    I agree, nothing in the Treaty removed rangatiratanga … on 7 February 1840 the chiefs still controlled their tribes, their land etc.
    
    What eroded rangatiratanga (which, important to remember, is *chiefly* authority) was that individual Maori got tired of living in a tribal collective under the thumb of a chief and chose, of their own free will, to live as individuals in European society – which was their right under Article 3 of the Treaty.
    
    AFAIK there are no Maori in New Zealand today who are living directly under the tribal authority of a chief. Not sure how many Maori could even tell you who the chief of their hapu/iwi was.
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 10:56am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Words take their meaning from context. Rangatiratanga, or chieftainship, is qualified by the following words that list the areas where that authority applies. Those are land and other property. Article 2 protects property rights and has nothing to do with sovereignty in the sense of law-making powers.
    
    11 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 11:22am
    - virtualmark
      
      What would be an interesting legal case would be if, for example, Ngai Tahu were to argue that their dairy farms in the Hurunui are tribal land and that under Article 2 of the Treaty Ngai Tahu have rangatiratanga to do whatever they like on that land.
      
      For example, they wouldn’t be bound by ECAN regulations because ECAN is part of the Crown, and has to respect Ngai Tahu’s Article 2 authority on its own land and over its own resources.
      
      I suspect they could win that case.
      
      Opens a huge can of worms though. For example, say they won the case, and then someone gets murdered on their farmland … presumably the NZ Police have no power to investigate and the crime would need to be resolved by the tribe and punishment implemented by the tribe. Messy.
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 3:19pm
      - rouppe
        
        presumably the NZ Police have no power to investigate and the crime would need to be resolved by the tribe and punishment implemented by the tribe
        
        As long as I can exercise the same rights (punishment implemented by me) on a Maori person who committed a crime on my land. Crown laws either apply in both places, or neither place.
        
        3 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 5:48pm
      - virtualmark
        
        No, I don’t see any legal basis for that.
        
        The Treaty basically sets up two parallel systems – European and Maori. European society had European law backed by the power of the Crown, Maori tribal areas had Maori customs backed by the power of the chief. Maori were given British citizenship, so they could move freely between both societies.
        
        Presumably you’re a European, so you live under European law. If a Maori commits a crime on your land then that would be (or, rather, have been) dealt with under European law.
        
        But Maori tribal areas, with Maori customs and under the power of the chief, haven’t existed for at least 100 years now. So that whole side of the Treaty lies fallow.
        
        0 0
        Report
        October 15, 2026 8:30am
- pdm
  
  The Treaty should never be entrenched.
  
  It was a Treaty for the times (early 1800s) and what is happening now shows the folly/oversight in not including a finite final date of say 20 or 25 years.
  
  35 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:56am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Correct pdm.
    Note that there was no mention of either party’s ‘heirs and successors’.
    
    That term was only used in enduring documents and agreements.
    
    Clearly the Treaty was intended only as a starting point, not a guide.
    On 7/2/1840 it became a historical document.
    
    8 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:01am
  - RoboRob
    
    Considering nobody can agree on what the Treaty actually means because there are two versions in different languages it seems impossible to entrench. First we would need to have agreement on the meaning of the treaty and then we could look at entrenching it.
    
    Personally I think we would be better spending the time on a new written constitution, similar to that in the USA.
    
    16 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:09am
    - Cassandra
      
      If we get a written constitution it’ll include the ToW and give the SC a field day.
      
      14 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 9:20am
      - imalwaysright
        
        The first 30 years of writing a Constitution would be trying to decide what the name of the country is…
        
        9 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 9:29am
    - Simon
      
      National party thinks a mountain can be a person. Not sure about National’s grasp on reality.
      
      Around 15 years ago NZ academics & political “leaders” helped develop Fiji constitution. Now Fiji is a failed narco state. There is the Wellington Clown Show. No one in Wellington is qualified to make any major decisions around constitutional issues such as the treaty.
      
      8 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 9:21am
    - wsk12345
      
      No no no. Only Māoris can decide on the meaning of the treaty. Where have you been for the last 20 years? We whiteys are not sufficiently wonderful people, of superior genetics and superlative guardianship of the country to even deserve a say. Get back in your box.
      
      11 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 9:41am
    - cmm (semi-retired edition)
      
      “Considering nobody can agree on what the Treaty actually means because there are two versions in different languages it seems impossible to entrench”
      
      No, not quite two languages. More like one and a half languages.
      
      The Maori language lacked (and still lacks) many of the concepts required to successfully expess an agreement of this nature. That makes the Maori version so fuzzy that it means nothing.
      
      If we are going to adopt anything then it needs to be the English version only. Only the English version can capture the intent in any meaningful way.
      
      Nothing else makes any sense.
      
      15 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:41am
- Simon
  
  Chief authority doesn’t work in the welfare basket that is a lot of NZ. It’s bad enough now imagine these so called chief clowns calling the welfare shots based on race. Losers.
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:16am
- R
  
  Surely entrenching Te ztiriti, is entrenched ‘a priveledged’ group; based on past rhetoric from Maori activist and party announcements
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:42am
- leoj
  
  Waititi’s focus on “people” actually meant “maori people”. He doesn’t give a rats arse about any other group because he is racist.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:39am
- Paulus
  
  But when will Maori Honour the Treaty ?
  
  12 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 12:05pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

It must grind the media’s gears that they cannot come up with a gender neutral term for “kingmaker”.
8 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:45am
NeverMindTheBollocks

When talking about the Opportunity Party, Winston has a good point. It looks like a bunch of neophytes, with a leader recruited via Seek, could hold the balance of power and expect Cabinet positions in the next government.

Not only will their MPs be new to parliament (for the first three years, breathe through your nose) but so will all of the machinery of the party. They will have zero experience of their role in government. This is not a good thing.

Offhand, I cannot think of any parallel in NZ. A decent media would be all over them like a rash, and would question their fitness to actually be able to do the job. They would also be diving into the party’s officers and source of funds.

But, beyond Ms Wong, crickets.
13 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:52am
Flossie

An article in Stuff this morning advises that due to the coming El Nino weather pattern we can expect between 7 and 11 cyclones this season, compared to the average nine.
I don’t really know what to say.
57 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:54am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’ll be from the generation that lived through modern maths. Thanks, teachers!
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 8:55am
- Northshoredoc
  
  Lol – you could imagine that being read out as a news report by the Two Ronnies.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is quite 😂 funny. New Zealand journalism right there.
  
  39 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:10am
- nathie
  
  “I don’t really know what to say.”
  
  How about … may it constantly rain on Stuff HQ?
  
  That about sums up their negativity … and aligns with their dramatic fixation on “climate change” … so win-win for all!
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:11am
- RoboRob
  
  Good mathing there! Much brain power.
  
  Good old EL Nino that has thus far done sweet F all to the normal weather. In Christchurch at least it feels not hotter or dryer then normal. Cool with rain forecast for the next three days after a couple of warn / hot sunny days. Very normal spring weather here.
  
  18 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:12am
  - wsk12345
    
    On my side it’s definitely been the warmest winter and spring I can recall. Though I heard there was a hard frost in Halswell last week?! I think we only had two frosts all winter.
    
    5 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 9:43am
    - RoboRob
      
      We had a good number of decent frosts this winter. Felt like more then last year. But I agree, winter overall felt warmer.
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 3:05pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        I think that in Tauranga we had the coolest winter for probably 10 years.
        
        4 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 3:33pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Don, you must be getting old and feeling the cold more.
        Weather records dont support your feelings.
        Coldest so far this year(august ) 0.1C
        Colder in 2023,24,25.
        
        0 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 7:06pm
- MCōs
  
  There’s nothing contradictory in your comment.
  As for NZ the article, which is about a much bigger area than than our neck of the woods says
  ‘For New Zealand, the overall risk from ex-tropical cyclones is considered normal.’
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/361045952/11-cyclones-could-form-season-least-four-severe
  
  6 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:55am
  - Flossie
    
    It wasn’t the number of cyclones I was commenting on. IYKYK.
    
    11 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:22pm
    - MCōs
      
      IYKYK is an abbreviation I’m not familiar with so I ran it through Google AI and was confronted with a screed of explanations
      I wouldn’t say I remained confused so much as bamboozled
      
      3 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 2:00pm
      - RoboRob
        
        If You Know You Know
        
        7 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 3:07pm
- R
  
  Average? That’s why the education changes made by Erica Stanford are so important. Comprehension of what one has written, the advent of AI into word programmes etc has not helped either.
  
  7 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So, there could be more than average or there could be fewer than average. Very revealing.
  
  Perhaps we could run a sweep-stake on whether it’s
  *more cyclones
  *fewer cyclones, or
  *average number of cyclones.
  
  I’m reckoning on a 33.33% chance for each.
  
  24 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:31am
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    All of which would be completely normal.
    
    What would be extremely abnormal would be a long series of average numbers of cyclones.
    
    10 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 11:36am
  - Phronesis
    
    Assuming a normal distribution there is a 38.29% chance of it being nine.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 11:47am
- Handyman
  
  Amazing.
  How to highlight thebst
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 11:26am
NeverMindTheBollocks

To expand, the Opportunity Party is the oddest phenomenon. We have a complete bunch of unknowns coming out of the dust like a saviour. It’s Mad Max stuff. Who are these strangers? Where do they come from?

To Kiwis, it doesn’t seem to matter. They’re new, they’re glossy, I’m gonna vote for them!

Marry in haste, repent at leisure.
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:54am
- kowtow
  
  There’s a very concerning block of voters in NZ.
  We saw that during scamvid .
  They gave Ardern the impossible ;an absolude majoridy under MMP because she saved them, from somfink.
  Then presumably the same people gave her the arse card because she saved them too much and they tired of her !
  
  These are now the same people who will determine who rules the rest of us.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 2:39pm
lifesgood

I can’t understand why there is so much angst over 18 to 25 years olds not enrolling to vote. Who really cares? Their votes would inevitably be left and “what’s in it for me?” e.g. free years at University. I for one am quite happy they are not enrolled. They will get what they deserve and, hopefully, the grown ups will be able to run the country.
14 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 9:14am
TripeWryter

Is it a government’s job to ‘create jobs’?
Has it ever been a government’s job to ‘create jobs’?
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 9:26am
- CrazyIvan
  
  Nope, at best it’s to create conditions for an economy to create jobs (which in most cases is keeping out of the way)
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 2:47pm
- RoboRob
  
  They like to pretend it is. Certainly on the left they think government is the primary creator of jobs. Just ask Chloe about her ‘Green jobs’
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 3:08pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  C’mon, Tripe. IIRC from other posts, you’ve been around long enough to remember the Post Office, the Ministry of Works and that last refuge for the otherwise unemployable, the Railways.
  
  Happy days!
  
  2 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 6:34pm
Damocles11

This while election business is hugely depressing, poll after poll showing a horrible gridlock with large unwieldy multi-party coalitions required on both left and right if either side is to form a government. A 4 party coalition looks horrendously unstable. We are in a total mess as a country. Strategic voting, if adopted by the right, could be the path to a decent victory, but I think many on the right are either too stubborn or too stale to ‘play the game’.
I miss the days where you just had an election day with a short campaign leading up to it. Now we are deluged with polls daily, and the campaigning seems to go on for months before two weeks of advance voting begin. It is interminable.
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 9:37am
- RoboRob
  
  Worry not. Right wing voters were creating an overhang naturally, before talk about it started. Nationals low party vote and high electorate support was a natural phenomenon that was picked up with attempts to amplify it.
  
  Unless something major breaks I think the majority of voters have already made up their minds. National will have a big overhang, likely partially balanced by TPMs overhang.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 3:10pm
Tomtoddy

Opportunity and Wong are receiving a “free” ride from the MSM. How about some investigative and in-depth journalism?

1. the party was built on two main planks – its reason for being. As soon a other parties raised hard questions they cowardly put these aside and produced 5 innocuous populist bottom lines. If you can forego your principles that easily what else will you forego to gain power. They stand for nothing.

2. They claim to bring a “new” style to politics. Obviously, they do not understand that our Westminster form of democracy is built on the contest of ideas. Strong challenge is basic to its performance.

3. They say they can work with “any party”. That reinforces the claim that they are a bunch of harlots simply driven by the lust of power devoid of underpinning philosophy.

Any journalist with any capability would be all over this travesty instead of giving them a dream run.
33 4
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 10:02am
- MCōs
  
  Opportunities may scrape into parliament with 8% of the party vote (somewhat more than NZ First at the last election). They are hardly in a position to force radical new taxes on a country when 92% didn’t vote for them.
  
  15 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:30am
  - RoboRob
    
    They wont get 8% of the vote. For whatever reason that poll always polls TOP much higher then most other polls.
    
    IF they get in on 8%+ AND form a coalition with LAB and Greens, then yes they will be in a position to force radical new taxes. Both Greens and TOP are keen on new taxes and whilst Labour says its not, it has been keen on wealth taxes and extensive CGT in the recent past too. If Greens and TOP (plus TPM support) are a similar portion of the government to Labour then why couldn’t they push through their agenda?
    
    *TPM will support new taxes as long as IWI are excluded.
    
    15 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 10:58am
    - Quail
      
      Again the adverse impacts on democracy in NZ as enabled by MMP are clearly visible.
      Minority party influence is well beyond any reason when a group with 8% of the party vote and 0% of the electorate members, or about 4% of total votes could choose the Government.
      There needs to be electoral change!
      
      10 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:35am
      - R
        
        ……electoral change……People should have listened closely to ALL the debate when MMP was being proposed by Rod Donald of the Greens, rather than the more sensible Single Transferable Vote; ably encouraged by the LABOUR party of the day. STV requires thinking skills also.
        I very much doubt that our present media would support, or in many cases even report, any dislogue suggesting a change
        
        10 0
        Report
        October 14, 2026 12:32pm
      - MCōs
        
        Prior to MMP the government was a single party with the most seats in parliament and except for the Holland National government more than seventy years ago it wasn’t a government most people voted for.
        
        2 4
        Report
        October 14, 2026 12:40pm
      - Flossie
        
        And none of those so called king makers has a day of parliamentary experience. Scary to think they can basically decide, to a certain extent, the future direction of our country.
        
        12 2
        Report
        October 14, 2026 1:45pm
    - cmm (semi-retired edition)
      
      “and whilst Labour says its not,”
      Sure, Labour will say they are not, but they’d love to be “forced” into more taxes by their coalition partners.
      
      12 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 11:35am
    - Paulus
      
      Depends on whether Peters will join them to his personal advantage.
      
      7 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      October 14, 2026 12:08pm
      - pdm
        
        It would be a brave man that rules that out Paulus/
        
        Peters loves Baubles and 18 months as Prime Minister is the biggest he will get.
        
        6 4
        Report
        October 14, 2026 1:13pm
MCōs

The cabinet decided to vote for a UN resolution, but Winston made a captain’s call and abstained.
At what point does actions like this require his resignation?
Does his position as Foreign Minister give him the right to overrule cabinet when he feels so inclined?
In this particular case the consequences are not huge, although looking at social media he’s made a lot of anti vaxers very happy, but other votes may have big ramifications.
8 16
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 10:18am
- R
  
  My understanding is that Cabinet discussed, but did not vote, a resolution on the topic; but I am relying on media reporting.
  Aside, …Winston is a bit of a ‘loose cannon’, has been ever since Bill English fired him.
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:26am
- RoboRob
  
  Isn’t the whole concept of a representative democracy that members are allowed to disagree? I know cabinet has a whole thing where all members are supposed to pretend that agree with every cabinet decision. I think it is important that minor parties be able to flag that they disagreed with a cabinet decision. Equally I would like to know when, for example, National has tried to do a thing and been blocked by a minor party. Supposedly scrapping 1 free year student loans was blocked by Winston up until very recently. If true, I blamed National for inaction when it was in fact Winston.
  
  Personally I would like to see more cases where MPs voted on what they thought was right for their constituents and less following of strict party lines.
  
  12 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:30am
  - CrazyIvan
    
    The difference here with an MP voting in the House is that Cabinet determined which NZ’s position and the foreign minister chose to ignore Cabinets collective decision. If another Minister had done that on another policy call they would have been sacked.
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 11:50am
  - pdm
    
    Won’t work for NZFirst RR.
    
    Because even now 30 years on Peters is the party.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 1:18pm
  - Taieri
    
    more cases where MPs voted on what they thought was right for their constituents
    ———–
    
    About 40% of them have no constituents. They are party list MPs.
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 4:06pm
- Yvette
  
  If I remember correctly, Murray McCully made a “captains call” over United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334, adopted on December 23, 2016, addressing Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem
  
  New Zealand was one of four countries, along with Senegal, Venezuela and Malaysia, that sponsored the resolution after Islamic Egypt withdrew sponsorship in the waning days of the Obama Administration.
  When Winston selected Jacinda to be PM after the 2017 Election, he had a censor written into the NZF / Labour Coalition Agreement against McCully’s action, but not the Resolution.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 11:16am
- Observer of Life
  
  What is this anti-vaxxer you speak of?
  
  2 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 11:31am
RoboRob

Did anyone watch the Minor leaders debate? From the little I saw two things stood out.

1. Winston looked old and slow. Made worse by putting him beside Chloe.

2. During my limited viewing, Tova only interrupted & fact checked once, it was Winston. Was this a trend in the debate or did everyone get fact checked?
13 4
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 10:33am
- MCōs
  
  I agree concerning Winston. These last couple of years he’s become more grumpy as the years are catching up.
  They try to project youthfulness in the ads by getting him to kick a football, but he’s no Mick Jagger
  The problem for NZ First is there’s bomb squad waiting on the bench
  
  13 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 10:48am
  - MCōs
    
    That should read “there’s no bomb squad” except atm Jones
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 12:27pm
  - Drone
    
    Listen/watch the RNZ interview on Morning Report with John Campbell this morning. He needs to go to a rest home…
    
    0 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 6:54pm
- Jack5
  
  Winston, with the cigarette-battered voice of a man in his 80’s , didn’t come across well in the minor-parties debate.
  
  It didn’t do the MMP electoral system any favours.
  
  TVNZ could have voice tested each participant and given us clear sound for each, and less obtrusive sideshow din from Waititi.
  
  Tova O’Brien, moderated weakly, which may demonstrate why Jacinda Adern shut her news briefings with: “Jessica, then Tova.”
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 12:29pm
Philview

France’s public spending is 57% of GDP and Marxists are on the streets calling for an end to austerity. I read that this is worse than the Soviet Union when it collapsed but other than reddit discussions I can’t see any links to back this up.
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 11:31am
- RoboRob
  
  Get this….
  
  ‘Key fact: France has not run a budget surplus in over fifty years; the last one occurred before 1973. This aligns with long‑term fiscal data showing persistent deficits through the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, and into the 2020s.
  
  ‘Current Eurostat data shows France running a –5.10% deficit in March 2026 1, consistent with its long‑standing pattern of annual deficits’
  
  I don’t know how you can run a country like that. No wonder they wanted the EU so badly.
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 3:18pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yeah, but the wine! And the cheese! And the foi gras!
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    October 14, 2026 6:39pm
Handyman

Amazing.
Sums up the state of the education system in general, maths teaching in particular, the quality of people in the media and the passive acceptance of everything climate related in one sentence.
The source article goes on the say El Nino will mainly affect the central and Eastern Pacific. It predicts a normal or reduced number of cyclones in the Western Pacific. For any Stuff journalists reading, New Zealand is in the Western Pacific.
9 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 11:40am
- R
  
  Not the journalists fault. We haven’t taught global geography in NZ for near on 60 years. Obviously not a remedial subject in journalism school either, nor NZ geography jn many cases
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 9:35pm
imalwaysright

Another pedo discovered teaching our children.

The ‘system’ is blamed, of course, for failing to spot the scumbag.

This is the same ‘system’ that would see him sacked if he didn’t do the morning karakia…

Priorities eh.
19 1
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 12:06pm
imalwaysright

If the moderators are busy then let us know.
No one minds that they have things to do.
12 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 12:25pm
Chris R

Greta Thunberg must be the most shallow person on the planet…every time there is a demo or when a protest march is brought to her absurd attention she dives in! This week it is the rabble scourge on the streets of Paris. Never mind the MSM will metaphorically kiss her butt and quote her endlessly.
17 1
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 1:08pm
MCōs

The hospitality industry in Australia produced this video pointing out effects of cancelling all immigrant visas
https://x.com/drdunnykruger/status/2109957215109202126?s=61
5 2
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 2:55pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/361046412/greens-and-te-pati-maori-catch-mongrel-mob-campaign-trail
So here we have a group of naive politicians positioning themselves as apologists for a drug pushing, very wealthy criminal gang – for a few votes.
It’s pathetic. Immoral even?
Time for some of these MP’s to grow up.
19 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 3:04pm
- RichardF
  
  If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. A trip to Animates on the way home would be a good idea.
  
  https://www.animates.co.nz/frontline-plus-flea-treatment-for-x-large-dogs-40-60kg-3-pack.html
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 3:34pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  To be fair Gravel, some will just be attending a contractual meeting with their suppliers, arranging for a few liaison visits with other candidates, plus meeting with their constituency to see what they get do to get the Popo off their backs when the left get in.
  
  A vote for Labour is a vote for the Greens, TPM and the Mob.
  
  9 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 4:57pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I dispute your use of the word naive, GB.
  
  These politicians knew exactly what they were doing.
  
  That’s why they didn’t swing by the local Woman’s Refuge on the way home.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 6:41pm
waripori

Just watched Benedict Collins on 1 News say he saw Mongrel Mob members tidying up the furniture at the Maori Party campaign launch so no problem with the Green meeting with them. Thoroughly nice chaps. Has to be the end on Collin’s career. He can get career advice from Maiki Sherman.
9 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 6:17pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes. It is a shame that TV reporters and broadcasters are seeking to normalise drug dealing and use which leads to addiction, loss of personal income and family harm.
  Too bad about the kids with no food as the budget has been spent on meth, cocaine, alcohol and black market cigarettes.
  Gang bosses just got new gold plated, luxury vehicles with their ever increasing income.
  Is that moral, Green Party?
  Seriously, if it is “immoral” for billionaires to make money through hard work and legal enterprises, how come the Maori Party and the Green Party don’t apply the same judgement on the mob who get their money from drug dealing and crime?
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  October 14, 2026 7:17pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/361046333/84-year-old-denied-cash-withdrawal-bank-he-has-been-70-years
Silly old coot: there is no way he would not have known about this change in procedure. And neither would his family, friends, etc. Just another beat-up.
1 0
Log in to Reply
Report
October 14, 2026 8:44pm

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Education is heading in the right direction

The $300m Labour fiscal hole media have ignored »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 13K other subscribers

Highlights

Target achieved II
Good progress on attendance
Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments

Links

Don't you just hate those billionaires
Not PC
Perspective with Heather du Plessis-Allan: Will National's vote-splitting strategy just confuse voters?
Breaking Views
The left does not have a monopoly on empathy
Point of Order
Woman of the day
Hompaddock
Opportunity flirt with ruling NZ First out – but then change their mind
The Standard
Sweden government formation 2026
Utopia
Labour leads in the top five voter issues in new poll
The Daily Blog
Secret Knowledge and False Consciousness
No Minister
Who Really Runs the Country?
NZCPR
Report Card – Christopher Luxon (National Party)
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
National disenfranchised more than 44,000 voters
No Right Turn
United Rugby Championship Predictions for Week 5
Stats Chat
When “secular communions” become contested.
Kiwipolitico
Tensions flare as Labour seeks to win back Green votes by backing rival gang
The Civilian
Sheep, speech, and the DMCA
Offsetting Behaviour
What I’d do
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

[email protected]

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d

Share this:

Like this: