Tamihere and gays

April 6th, 2005 at 11:42 pm by David Farrar

John Tamihere’s latest interview makes me wonder about why he has such a negative view of gays.

I can quite understand some resentment, for example, over being pressured to vote for civil unions etc.

But to say:

“I’m very strong on lifting the performance of kiwi males particularly young males in the next couple of years – heterosexual males i’m talking about and I just want to put greater influence on the right to attract men back into the education again so they can pay affection to kids – i think that’s right,” he says.

I mean, how do you take that? That performing well at school should only be something for heterosexuals? Why on earth did he feel the need to qualify his statement like that?

It’s one thing to be having a go at the “gay lobby” within your party, but to be sending out a message to gay kids (who already have a very high suicide rate) that he is only interested in heterosexuals doing well at school, is I suggest rather bizarre. I mean what if he had said he was only interested in high performance for white kids?

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38 Responses to “Tamihere and gays”

  1. AL () says:

    Hmmm reminds me of that teacher at a high school in Wanganui who gets the boys to push the girls around a playing field in car. The cars was in neutral of course.

    Meant to teach boys something…. not to listen to idiot teachers?

    There was a TV doco on this guy a couple of years back.

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  2. Graham watson () says:

    From his TV comments it is clear he does not favour homosexuality.

    However from the comments in the post above i took something different, ie that the pressures are on young heterosexual males not to do well at school, a view reinforced I expect by his generalised observations in maoridom and west auckland.

    I presume he feels young homosexual males are not subjected to these pressures (to the same extent), a view which is probably reinforced by the higher than usual academic PC homosexual content of the labour party which clashes with his more conservative blokeish culture.

    I fail to understand however how he makes the link between these views and the assertion that it would be good to attract more males in to education so they can pay more affection to children. The next thing we know he’ll be being accused of being a homophobe with paedophile (in the concise Winston dictionary sense)leanings.

    How highly irregular?

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  3. reid () says:

    Maybe it’s because he’s trying to send a message to an ignored segment of the electorate.

    Tamihere is like all successful politicos: able to (a) back up what he says by self-evident example and (b) understand what the man in the street is thinking.

    His statement is not anti-gay, it’s pro-male.

    He goes further(amazingly so), by labelling her chief advisor “butch and dangerous”.

    Many Kiwi males will say: Great stuff. About time. And lets have more of it.

    I predict kiwi males who dissent from that sentiment are in the minority.

    This is not about votes for any particular party, but for telling Helen to shove it. Tamihere is taping into that sentiment. And that might be the calculation.

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  4. James () says:

    Tamiheres a bigoted shit and insuecure to boot.No wonder so many “kiwi males”( Oh please..! ) support him.Hes right on many things but goes over board and ruins it.Good ridence to the losser,….

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  5. Liam () says:

    I read that different again. It seems to me that JT is wanting to encourage males back into *education*, aka teaching. I think the hetrosexual part is because of this “so they can pay affection to kids”. I am guessing that he is either links homosexuals to peadophilia in his mind or he just doesn’t want to be accused of putting the kids in danger.

    Sadly, male teachers are at greater risk that female one of such accusation if they show any affection to kids – so they have to be cold and withdrawn, and very, very careful. The risk is too high for most males, who just flag away any thought of a teaching career – expecially a primary school one.

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  6. TheProphet () says:

    At my eight year olds school the last male staff member(headmaster) has just quit.19 female teachers. Get some men in there , straight or gay who cares.Boys and girls need to have both sexes to bounce of throughout their school career.

    Allah protect us

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  7. Craig Ranapia () says:

    Reid –

    Um, I was a male last time I looked and if Tamihere thinks my sexual orientation is a ‘lifestyle choice’ (as opposed to fathering children out of wedlock, JT) he’s delusional.

    BTW, there’s nothing ‘pro-male’ in trashing men who happen to be homosexual. And I’d like JT to come out and say whether he thinks people like myself should be even considering entering teaching.

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  8. Craig Ranapia () says:

    BTW, Mike Williams has just said on Morning Report that Tamihere went on ‘Close Up’ without the knowledge or appoval of himself or the Prime Minister.

    Nobody learns nothing…

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  9. rightkiwi () says:

    I don’t believe anything the Government says about this affair.

    First, it was the result of a liquid lunch, but then it turns out he had only half a glass of wine.

    We are also told that it was meant to be off-thr-record but none of his behaviour suggests he really thought that.

    Then, he is on stress leave, but we later find out he has spent three days in meetings with his party president and with the media.

    Now Clark tries to tell us she didn’t know he was going on Close Up … I don’t believe her. After all, there was meant to be a deal done between Williams and Tamihere. Are we to believe he immediately broke the deal by doing an interview that was outside the deal?

    Everyine involved in lying and Clark is revealed as a cynical, lying bitch. But this may be one spin too far – if the Opposition would truly make the most of it.

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  10. tim barclay () says:

    I am not sure that he was directing a serve at young gay kids. It is rather confused babble. There is a high degree of political calculation in these comments, heterosexual males feeling some pressure for the first time to start performing instead of relying on the old boys network to get them out of trouble and excuse their slack performance. Gay men and women generally are judged by higher standards that these oafs.

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  11. Craig Ranapia () says:

    rightkiwi –

    I’d normally agree with you that Clark needs a corkscrew to eat soup, but I can’t see the advantage in letting JT loose on ‘Throw Up @ 7′. And Tamihere has a long history of blind siding Clark and Co. through the media.

    My cotacts in Labour suggest there’s a lot of bad blood swirling around that his performance last night did NOTHING to calm.

    Clark, the caucus and party organisation may eat shit and smile in public

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  12. AJ () says:

    Hmmm, Barry Soper’s report on xtra paints a different picture, it appears a deal was signed up with Close Up with fll knowledge of Mike Williams, and I’m assuming her.

    The interview was full of mis-truths and spin, I really do think Tamihere has shot himself in the foot. But with his obvious ability to lie and spin maybe he has all the necessary ‘qualities’ to become the next Labour leader…

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  13. Charles () says:

    I believe that it is pretty clear what he is referring to: the demonisation of male teachers who show affection or comfort kids when something is wrong – for example the high profile case of a Levin teacher who was charged last year with some offence in spite of having overwhelming support of parents at the school. This business is less to do with homosexuality and more to do with the femminisation of many roles in society and the denigration of traditional male and female roles, a problem you can lay squarely at the door of Helen and the sisterhood.
    I have a male friend who is a teacher. He says that male teachers now have to be so careful about the way that they conduct themselves that they worry about how every little action they make could be taken.
    I haven’t read the full text of Tamihere’s comments, but based on what has been written in this post, he does not so much want to discourage school performance by homosexuals as to encourage heterosexuals into nurturing roles (such as teaching) without all the feminist baggage coming for a ride as well.
    It is disappointing to me that he has apologised for any of what he said. A great many people I have spoken to actually agree with almost everything that he said and he has lost respect and face by now apologising.

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  14. rightkiwi () says:

    Craig – in that case, the Ten must be more powerful than I thought – what other explanation can there be for Clark bending over backwards to save him?

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  15. Adolf Fiinkensein () says:

    rightkiwi, maybe she just doesn’t want an election just yet. Would you if you were she?

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  16. Jordan () says:

    If anyone was in any confused state about John’s views, I hope such confusion is now removed.

    Why John thinks straight guys have a hard ride and gay ones don’t is just beyond me. Certainly wasn’t like that at the school I went to.

    I would have thought his critique was better aimed at schooling systems that perhaps aren’t sensitive enough to different learning styles – and that’s not a straight/gay split.

    The man just doesn’t get it, from his view that being gay is a “choice” right on through the issue. What a remarkable state of affairs.

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  17. dim () says:

    ‘The Ten?’ And another myth enters the lexicon of right-wing NZ politics. Good grief.

    The HC for PM poll ratings are at about 60% – Don Brash is at 9%, JT doesn’t even register. Anyone who thinks that HC is quivering wth fear and bending over backwards to appease ‘the ten’ – consisting of such lumineries as Janet McKay and Clayton Cosgrove – is seriously out of touch.

    Anyway, here’s the gossip I’ve heard about the Tamihere meltdown.

    1. Apparently it was provoked by (a) HC’s refusal to admit JT back into cabinet after he was cleared by the serious fraud office.

    2. (b) HC’s recent adulation of Shane Jones, and his high placing on the Labour list. Several Journalists suggested Jones could be the first Maori PM, a future JT still covets for himself.

    3. JT saw that his star was waning and decided to reasset his presence.

    4. The Labour party are not entirely unhappy about the situation. It took the heat off George Hawkins for an entire week. As scandals go it’s pretty legless, since none of JT’s allegations were criminal, no taxpayer money was wasted and no one died as a result of government incompetence – which is more than can be said for your average Labour party scandal so far this year.

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  18. dim () says:

    Oppps. Brash is at 20% (Peters is at 9%)

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  19. rightkiwi () says:

    Dim –

    I don’t think anyone suggests that the Ten are willing or able to overthrow Clark. The Ten are clearly a minority in Labour. And nor would they all support Tamihere anymore.

    The significance of the Ten are that they clearly do not support Clark and the clique around her, and clearly do support the general direction (if not the tone) of Tamihere’s comments.

    And, while the Ten (actually, there are more than ten) are a minority, it is quite clear they are a strong enough minority that Clark is, to a significant degree, is restrained in how she can deal with problems which emerge, such as this one, and the Hawkins problem.

    That the Ten have emerged in the public consciousness is important because it has alerted the public to the fact that Labour is more divided than most would previously have thought, and that Clark is much less powerful.

    This is all in addition to the fact that this incident has revealed the inner workings of a Stalinist regime – one where those who disagree with The Leader are sent on Mental Health Leave.

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  20. dim () says:

    Stalin put tens of thousands of his officials on trial and then executed them. Helen Clark suggested JT take a leave of absence for a week. You might want to look up the word ‘perspective’.

    Clark is protecting Tamaki because (a) she doesn’t want to force a by-election in a Maori seat before the election, (b) because she wants him on her side during the election to protect Labours Maori votes (what’s left of them) and (c) if she sacked him she would confirm many of his allegations. It’s nothing to do with a bunch of dissatisfied backbenchers.

    Every political party has a group of malcontented plotters circulating on the outskirts. It’s part of the nature of politics, and (I think) is due to the monstrous egos of the people that are drawn to become politicians. Backbenchers always think they can do a better job than the cabinet can.

    The total absence of ‘The Ten’ in the media over the last week, and their deafening silence in backing Tamihere should give you an indication of just how ‘divided and weakened’ the Prime Minister and her power bloc is – ie. not at all.

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  21. rightkiwi () says:

    The Stalinist aspect is the use of bogus mental health issues to get people out of the capital city. Obviously there are significant differences between Stalin and Clark … although the differences are narrowing over time!

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  22. Adolf Fiinkensein () says:

    Dim, I quite liked your earlier analysis but I think you take a liberty to suggest Dominatrix is protecting Tamaki. You did mean Tamihere? Don’t you worry (to use the pet phrasr of Jo Bjelkie) she’ll execute him alright. The minute the election is over, win or lose.

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  23. Jordan () says:

    Freudian slip there, Dim? :)

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  24. Michael () says:

    The comparisons between Helen Clark and Stalin are absurd. Anyone for Brash/Hitler? Actually, I think Franco would be the better comparison.
    I think JT derserves to be kicked out of the Labour caucus – let the Nats take him if they want to.

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  25. Dim () says:

    Damn!

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  26. rightkiwi () says:

    Of course the Clark/Stalin comparison is largely absurd … it is made on this occasion because the use of the “he has criticised me so he must have gone mad” defence is so rare in New Zealand and is so amusingly Stalinist.

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  27. Jordan () says:

    Of course one would not want to forget The Twelve in the National Caucus (of 27). :)

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  28. rightkiwi () says:

    Jordan – name the twelve and let’s see if the list looks plausible. The Ten certainly looks plausible.

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  29. Charles () says:

    Dim – don’t put too much faith in political opinion polls. The woman doesn’t have as much support as the pollsters like to make out.

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  30. Chaos () says:

    I would have no problem in the idea of Stalin and Helen Clark being similar.
    Socialism masquerades as a movement of the
    downtrodden masses but is in fact clearly an attempt at consolidating wealth and
    power by the elite.
    Helen Clark is a raving mad socialist.
    I am really disappointed at JT apologising, I almost started to like him.

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  31. Neil () says:

    I would have no problem in the idea of Stalin and Helen Clark being similar.
    Socialism masquerades as a movement of the
    downtrodden masses but is in fact clearly an attempt at consolidating wealth and
    power by the elite.
    Helen Clark is a raving mad socialist.
    I am really disappointed at JT apologising, I almost started to like him.

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  32. dim () says:

    It’s obvious when you think about it. Isn’t Michael Cullens closure of Parliament last night exactly the same as Lavrenty Berias liquidation of all Polands intellectuals? And isn’t banning smoking in pubs pretty much the same as the extermination of the Kulaks – or starving to death twenty million Ukranians?

    What a chump.

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  33. kaosxrsy () says:

    Maybe JT thought that by making such a `gay’ comment he would be appealing to the `Christian’ voters homophobic values or lack of (whatever) for the upcoming general election when he stands up for the Moari seat against fellow Maori campaigners from within the `Bishop Tamaki’ (cough splutter) led Destiny Church? They all will of course be trying to appeal for the Maori voters votes.
    This`unknown’ interview he did could well have been a ploy for his electioneering to gain support from fellow cheeky darkies/brownies and some whities too…lol!

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  34. Rich () says:

    I’d have thought the PM was being nice by suggesting that JT take the week off to get his head together.

    A more reasonable approach would be to suggest that there are four parties in the current parliament that welcome, or at least tolerate, homophobic bigotry and that he might feel happier joining one of them.

    (Does anyone think that Brash’s latest anti-Maori redneckery is a pre-emptive strike to ensure Tamihere doesn’t think about joining the Nats?)

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  35. rightkiwi () says:

    Brash’s latest stunt was pathetic. He looked like a man chasing at shadows. Where is the substance?

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  36. dim () says:

    To me one of the biggest questions about the election (maybe the ONLY question, given the latest NBR poll) is what the Nats are going to do about Brash in the leaders debate? It’s pretty obvious that they can’t put him on the stage with HC – she’ll wipe the floor with him in seconds flat – but it’s also not a good look to refuse to debate.

    Tricky.

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  37. rightkiwi () says:

    Dim – He’ll do just fine. He’ll be trained by Murray McCully.

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