HoS Editorial on Blogs
January 29th, 2007 at 9:48 pm by David FarrarYesterday’s Herald on Sunday Editorial was on blogs, titled “Big Blogger is watching – and spewing inarticulate filth”.
The editorial is not online, and I only heard about it when Russell Brown critiqued it at Public Address. Go read what Russell says, as I pretty much agree with him.
The editorial in full is copied after the break on this post. I hope HoS don’t mind this stretching of fair use provisions, but I figure they won’t mind the target audience being able to read it online.
Now I should acknowledge that the editorial did say nice things about this blog (and Public Address):
Operated the right way, blogsites offer and generate intelligent debate and insight. The likes of kiwiblog and publicaddress are worthwhile reads, maintained by a dedicated group of talented writers and thinkers.
That’s a decent comment to make, especially as last year the Editor and myself exchanged a couple of pretty testy e-mails over the Mick Jagger and the reporter story. Incidentally I’d like to know where this “group” is. I’m the sole writer here, and occasionally even a thinker!
Taking other parts of the editorial:
But most bloggers _ and we’re talking 95 per cent _ are fly-by-night, gutless wonders who prefer to spit inarticulate venom under inarticulate pseudonyms.
As Russell noted, 95% of bloggers only blog about their travels, their pet cat etc etc. Most blogging is personal. Now even if one just looks at political bloggers, not that many are truly anonymous. Of the 50 or so regular political bloggers in NZ, I would know the identities of well over 40 of them. Maybe over 45. The CYFSWatch Blog is rare in terms of being totally anonymous.
With regards to that blog, I agree that it goes too far in soliciting names and personal details of individual staff, plus the language of some of the posts are extreme and nasty. However I would not be as quick as the HOS to dismiss all the contributions to the site. There are some compelling cases there. Even if CYFS was near perfect and got it right 95% of the time, that means there will still be a fair number of families where the wrong call has been made. Maybe the HOS could ask some of those who posted to the site to contact one of their reporters, and have the reporters check into their stories?
The editorial calls Google “extraordinarily hopeless” for not deleting the site. Even putting aside the futile nature of such deletion (it would be back in minutes), I wonder why anyone would think Google is trained to judge what is a breach of New Zealand law? You see what is defamatory under NZ law might not at all be defamatory under US law (much harder to win there). And I don’t think it’s a good idea that Google yanks content just because there has been a complaint. That is how the Scientology cult suppressed information on them for so long.
The editorial goes on to say:
Online abuse is now rampant in all parts of New Zealand society. Disaffected employees and students can now publicly pull apart their bosses and teachers through specially designed websites. Police have had to be called in to dismantle claims made on sites such as bebo. Police were also called in this week when a schoolgirl spat on the West Coast was thrashed out on several websites set up by the students.
As the Internet grows, the uses it is put to grow – both good and bad. And there is no real evidence the bad is anything but sporadic. For one case of bullying on bebo, there are a million happy users. For every ratemyteacher.com there is a ratethisrestaurant.com type site which is undoubtedly a public service. And anonymous criticism is not new to the Internet. It has been present on Usenet, the Internet discussion newsgroups for well over a decade.
At the end of the day blogs are just a form of technology that allows you to maintain an easy to read website easily. How people use blogs will always vary as with any medium. One can do good or do harm with them. Or, as is more likely, just keep posting photos of your pets to them!
BIG BLOGGER IS WATCHING _ AND SPEWING INARTICULATE FILTH
GEORGE ORWELL DIDN’T quite have it right in his classic _ it’s not so much a case of Big Brother hovering over us, as Big Blogger. In this internet age, anyone, anywhere can be transformed into an instant publisher _ tapping out their thoughts, ideas and stream of consciousness in a full-strength, defamatory onslaught, and all achieved behind a curtain of anonymity from the comfort of the home or work computer.
Operated the right way, blogsites offer and generate intelligent debate and insight. The likes of kiwiblog and publicaddress are worthwhile reads, maintained by a dedicated group of talented writers and thinkers.
But most bloggers _ and we’re talking 95 per cent _ are fly-by-night, gutless wonders who prefer to spit inarticulate venom under inarticulate pseudonyms. It is simple for them to launch their writing careers _ figures released this week show the blogger.com website is among the 20 most popular sites visited by Kiwis.
These bloggers, operating under their own misguided belief of self-freedom rarely research any offerings and have little knowledge of defamation laws and other publishing restrictions. Journalists, broadcasters, columnists, and politicians are common targets _ and this week we’ve seen the boundaries stretched intolerably far.
A new blogsite set up to name and shame Child Youth and Family workers is a disgrace. Working for CYF would be a godforsaken job at the best of times, without having a bunch of cyberspace cowboys on your back. The defamatory claims posted on the site are reckless and untrue _ many of the issues have already been investigated through the correct and proper channels, and all we’re left with are the incoherent ramblings and personal attacks of the disaffected. The very fact that CYF had to be involved in these people’s lives in the first place should sound alarm bells.
The Ministry of Social Development has tried to convince Google that the site should be removed, but the internet giant has been extraordinarily hopeless. It makes all the right noises about prohibiting defamatory, vulgar, harmful and threatening content _ but its blog pages are awash with this very material. It needs to pay more than lip service to this principle.
Online abuse is now rampant in all parts of New Zealand society. Disaffected employees and students can now publicly pull apart their bosses and teachers through specially designed websites. Police have had to be called in to dismantle claims made on sites such as bebo. Police were also called in this week when a schoolgirl spat on the West Coast was thrashed out on several websites set up by the students.
Constable Rose Green said bullying was taking on new forms. “Texting is rife and this is one step further. Crikey _ it used to be on the toilet wall. It’s gone to texting and now the websites. It’s ridiculous. It’s got out of hand.”
Some of these bloggers need to be reined in, and quickly. The anti-CYF site would have probably disappeared into a cyberspace black hole had it not been for all the publicity. Instead, the site was hit by thousands.
It would be refreshing to see a hapless victim take on a blogger in a court of law _ and earn themselves a decent payday.
We’ve yet to see a full-on case locally but when a silly blogger tries to take on the might of a government department, they might just find its legal resources are a little deeper than the average social worker. Already Crown Law and police officials are involved in the CYF matter.
Companies such as Google might also then start to take their responsibilities a little more seriously, given the liability they would face.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:21 am
“Companies such as Google might also then start to take their responsibilities a little more seriously”
Google (owns Blogger.com) — market capitalization: $US 120 billion; motto: “Don’t be evil”; mission: indexing the World’s information.
CYFS + Cops + NZ Herald — erstwhile thought police, net n00bs. May have difficulty. Unless Comrade Helen wishes to strangle free speech like her Chinese buddies.
“We’ve yet to see a full-on case locally but when a silly government department tries to restrict the freedom of the Web, they might just find its publishing resources are a little broader than the average state-owned media outlet.”
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 7:43 am
A very lightweight editorial which really just skips over the issues. The fact is blogging is the new way people can voice and publish their views. It would be tiresome to be the target of such a blog as the CYFS workers. But publicity about some of their more inhumane decisions would be welcome and might bring some accountability into that over protective powerful depsrtment that probably wreaks as many lives as they save.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 8:12 am
So the newspaper is criticising the publicity around the CYFSWatch blog for creating the problem. Tell me (I live in Auckers) did the Dom Post cover the new blog at all?
This editorial is all a bit overblown isn’t it? Even though I frequently moan about the bile on some nz pol blogs I still don’t think that blogs in general are “awash”.
Also, I’d like to know about the specially designed website where ex-employees can vent – I’ve heard about the one for school students of course, but that’s a new one on me.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 8:39 am
My comment hasn’t appeared yet, but when it does, please note I made a boo boo – it was the Herald on Sunday I realise now. And as I do read the Herald most weekdays I can confirm that they did cover (and thus publicise) the CYFSWatch blog.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 8:56 am
Another verbal assault from the ill-informed MSM in support of totalitarianism in an attempt to protect what they think is their patch.
Now in my 5th year of blogging and still using my own name.
CYFSWatch now has over 400 submissions.
The REAL issue the MSM should address is their total and complete failure to raise the issue of this level of distress and lack of accountability themselves.
If you can’t be bothered doing the damn job you get paid for then don’t soil your undies in public when someone else does it for free at great risk to themselves.
There’s some gutless filth being flung here all right, its not coming from the blogs.
We’re here, we blog, get used to it.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Just for your interest the cyfswatch blog has been inundated with over new 400 cases . It’s a bit like the volunteers overloaded and struggling, to answer 700,000 calls made by troublesome youth last year to youth helplines .
Vote:Do you think we have a problem Minister Dyson ?
Officer arrest that man !!!
January 30th, 2007 at 9:19 am
While disagreeing with this editorial (banning blogs is laughable) I would not hang my defence on CYFSWatch and it’s squallid attempts to secure home addresses and even car registration numbers of social work staff.
The eagerness of some here to join in this little witch-hunt is surprising and as I said before I’m sure a similar blog asking for the personal details of police officers would rightly get short shrift.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Ironic that they accuse bloggers of using pseudonyms when the Herald on Sunday editorial is effectively written anonymously.
Is the gutless wonder who wrote this editorial willing to identify their real name?
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Can’t the HoS see that their vociferous attack on bloggers – particularly over the issue of CYFS – just looks like a bunch of forlock tugging sycophants doing the current regime’s dirty work? There are some real issues needing to be addressed with CYFS and the Family Court. Are they afraid that some of the parents with genuine grievances might get together for a class action seeking compensation?
Vote:My email to Kerre Woodham, at the HoS’ invitation, remains unanswered at this point. Not a good look either since such silence comes across as arrogant and dismissive.
January 30th, 2007 at 10:09 am
And who’s the editorial write for the HOS? Correct me if I’m wrong but they’re anonymous. Why doesn’t the editor put his or her money where his or her mouth is?
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:11 am
When the government chooses to introduce contentious legislation it usually involves further restrictions on our personal freedoms. One of their favourite lines before this happens is “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear” following this we usually receive a poxy little form that requries our personal details to be given to some bureaucracy.
I quess it’s not so funny when the government is made to live under the same line. It would seem those that once believed they were the law are know finding they do have something to fear and long may it continue.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Hey chronic when you find witches its not a witch hunt.
Its a cull.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:15 am
> The eagerness of some here to join in this little witch-hunt is surprising…
I assume you’re referring to the witch-hunt to close the blog down? And, yes, I am surprised by the government’s attempts to do just that.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Sonic, you focus on the outrage of publishing a car registration number, and I’ll focus on the cases of government sanctioned kidnapping and abuse.
In the meantime, maybe you could consider how much the former is spurred on by the latter.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Zen, if you are suggesting that this, or any other New Zealand government, “sanctions” child abuse I’m afraid you have just lost the right to be taken seriously.
xxx
S
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:52 am
The establishment media thrashes and lashes out at the usurpers who threaten everything from their reporting bias to their classifieds ….but to no effect.
It isn’t yet kicked to death but it is spitting blood. This is a metaphor type thingy Kerrs.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Chronic talks of being taken seriously with as much authority as a virgin giving sex advice.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 10:58 am
As usual Murray you try and bring personal attacks into the debate.
Stay on topic for once there’s a good chap.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Unfortunately it’s another run of an old theme – the good medicine of freedom and opportunity can easily be turned into damaging poison without the collateral of personal responsibility, respect and reasonableness.
I don’t agree with reactionary closedown responses by gummint, but more with the self-censorship approach of netiquette norms, flame war judgements etc. Suppliers of services such as ISPs can take their own actions based on their view of customer/ user concerns.
As it is, I don’t believe individual employees should be persecuted by publication of personal details no matter how frustrated the aggrieved. Already it seems that cheapshots are being fired in this way
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 11:02 am
I’m still waiting for the Government-sponsored whitewash website cyfswatchwatch.blogspot.com to appear.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Methinks the HoS like the rest of the MSM is uncomfortable with the competition and being shown up as the lapdog of the Socialists.Once the invisible letters Editor(s) could censor out those they didnt agree with Now blogsites enable a wider range of opinion. Long may it be so.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
The NZ Herald as with the majority of the news outlets worldwide that are termed the “mainstream media” only has itself to blame for the rise of the internet. If they had done their job, and provided objective news and diverse opinion, the bloggers who make the internet so popular would not have had a market.
Writing bigoted leftist socialist codswallop day after day after day for decades is eventually going to give rise to a market competitor. Refusing to hire anyone who isn’t an advocate for socialism and bigger government means those who don’t fit the Herald’s employment criteria will find other outlets for their work. Hence the internet and hence blogging.
Like most blinkered socialists, the Herald editor doesn’t know that there are people out there who think differently to him, and more to the point, he doesn’t know how many of them there are. The internet and blogging has made him aware of this deficiency in his knowledge, but with a mind submerged in twentieth century socialist mantras, he’s still too lacking in political comprehension to know what’s really going on.
The editorial is a disgraceful attack on freedom of expression from a disgusting socialist rag. With one or two notable exceptions, the Herald is a weak gutless group of advocates for a political view that repulses so many people. They are a major part of the socialist media government conglomerate that over the last couple of decades has ruined this country. I can’t wait for the news that will follow on from similar headlines at the NY Times, Newsweek, CNN, Time Magazine, and so many other similarly politically corrupt socialist propaganda outlets…
“NZ Herald announces major lay offs”…
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Hey there people, on the topic of blogs check out a new one http://www.brooklynblue.blogzone.co.nz
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Tried your new blog, result=You tried to access the address http://brooklynblue.blogzone.co.nz/, which is currently unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly spelled and punctuated, then try reloading the page.
Correct address? Site removed by Govt directive??
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Heh. It’s funny that the people who take the most violent exception to the lame HoS editorial are the ones who most closely resemble the unflattering stereotypes it proposes …
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Sorry about the embarrassing cock-up but if you give it a go now it should work a treat http://www.brooklynblue.blogzone.co.nz/
Vote:no commas on the end.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Personally I cannot understand why Redbaiter does not have a weekly, nay daily column in the Herald.
How people would thrill at his daily insights into “bigoted leftist socialist codswallop” or “disgusting socialists” or for a bit of variety “The brain dead neo-communism that is ruining our country”
Come on Herald, sign the man up! Garth George will not last for ever you know.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
This cyfs watch controversy reminds me of the advert starring Raybon Khan where he says “I’ll do the jokes!”
Vote:The “mainstream” media’s bread ‘n butter is naming and shaming. Everyday peoples’ names appear in the paper, often with devastaing consequences for the named. At the cyfswatch website, we have heartfelt anguish from the victims of a tyrannical system, victims who in effect have no recourse, and so to name some of those who run this system is but a tiny compensation for them, and may ultimately lead to justice. Yes, 90% of social workers may be doing great work with as much grace as can be mustered under difficult circumstances, but some are downright evil, carrying out agenda’s that have little concern for people. We have known this from the Ward 24 days & the Ellis case. Sure, some of the anecdotes on the blog site are one-sided, not the full story, but what is new there? That is the case with much media reporting and many court decisions etc. Even some of our laws are made by MPs ignoring half the evidence. Some of the anecdotes are not as articulatee as they could be, but we haven’t all been to university. Some have brought me to tears. Yes the subjective invective in some of the stories detracts a wee bit from the credibility, but it also indicates the depth of feeling and the importance of the forum that cyfswatch has provided. All success to cfyswatch and justice for its supporters.
Brandon Hutchison, Christchurch
ps. Yes, a site that named and shamed nasty or crooked cops would be justified, but the need is much less, as unlike cyfs, it is possible to do something about them through normal channels.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Actually Sonic I agree with you that the CYFS Watch site is not A Good Thing, and have posted to that effect:
http://spanblather.blogspot.com/2007/01/unfortunately-wrong-footed.html
However the HoS editorial seems to go off the deep end, effectively about one blog that has offended whoever writes the editorial, but which its reporters have covered in the news pages.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
This cyfs watch controversy reminds me of the advert starring Raybon Khan where he says “I’ll do the jokes!”
Vote:The “mainstream” media’s bread ‘n butter is naming and shaming. Everyday peoples’ names appear in the paper, often with devastaing consequences for the named. At the cyfswatch website, we have heartfelt anguish from the victims of a tyrannical system, victims who in effect have no recourse, and so to name some of those who run this system is but a tiny compensation for them, and may ultimately lead to justice. Yes, 90% of social workers may be doing great work with as much grace as can be mustered under difficult circumstances, but some are downright evil, carrying out agenda’s that have little concern for people. We have known this from the Ward 24 days & the Ellis case. Sure, some of the anecdotes on the blog site are one-sided, not the full story, but what is new there? That is the case with much media reporting and many court decisions etc. Even some of our laws are made by MPs ignoring half the evidence. Some of the anecdotes are not as articulatee as they could be, but we haven’t all been to university. Some have brought me to tears. Yes the subjective invective in some of the stories detracts a wee bit from the credibility, but it also indicates the depth of feeling and the importance of the forum that cyfswatch has provided. All success to cfyswatch and justice for its supporters.
Brandon Hutchison, Christchurch
ps. Yes, a site that named and shamed nasty or crooked cops would be justified, but the need is much less, as unlike cyfs, it is possible to do something about them through normal channels.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
> Heh. It’s funny that the people who take the most violent exception to the lame HoS editorial are the ones who most closely resemble the unflattering stereotypes it proposes …
Speak for yourself.
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
This cyfs watch controversy reminds me of the advert starring Raybon Khan where he says “I’ll do the jokes!”
Vote:The “mainstream” media’s bread ‘n butter is naming and shaming. Everyday peoples’ names appear in the paper, often with devastaing consequences for the named. At the cyfswatch website, we have heartfelt anguish from the victims of a tyrannical system, victims who in effect have no recourse, and so to name some of those who run this system is but a tiny compensation for them, and may ultimately lead to justice. Yes, 90% of social workers may be doing great work with as much grace as can be mustered under difficult circumstances, but some are downright evil, carrying out agenda’s that have little concern for people. We have known this from the Ward 24 days & the Ellis case. Sure, some of the anecdotes on the blog site are one-sided, not the full story, but what is new there? That is the case with much media reporting and many court decisions etc. Even some of our laws are made by MPs ignoring half the evidence. Some of the anecdotes are not as articulatee as they could be, but we haven’t all been to university. Some have brought me to tears. Yes the subjective invective in some of the stories detracts a wee bit from the credibility, but it also indicates the depth of feeling and the importance of the forum that cyfswatch has provided. All success to cfyswatch and justice for its supporters.
Brandon Hutchison, Christchurch
ps. Yes, a site that named and shamed nasty or crooked cops would be justified, but the need is much less, as unlike cyfs, it is possible to do something about them through normal channels.
January 30th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
This cyfs watch controversy reminds me of the advert starring Raybon Khan where he says “I’ll do the jokes!”
Vote:The “mainstream” media’s bread ‘n butter is naming and shaming. Everyday peoples’ names appear in the paper, often with devastaing consequences for the named. At the cyfswatch website, we have heartfelt anguish from the victims of a tyrannical system, victims who in effect have no recourse, and so to name some of those who run this system is but a tiny compensation for them, and may ultimately lead to justice. Yes, 90% of social workers may be doing great work with as much grace as can be mustered under difficult circumstances, but some are downright evil, carrying out agenda’s that have little concern for people. We have known this from the Ward 24 days & the Ellis case. Sure, some of the anecdotes on the blog site are one-sided, not the full story, but what is new there? That is the case with much media reporting and many court decisions etc. Even some of our laws are made by MPs ignoring half the evidence. Some of the anecdotes are not as articulatee as they could be, but we haven’t all been to university. Some have brought me to tears. Yes the subjective invective in some of the stories detracts a wee bit from the credibility, but it also indicates the depth of feeling and the importance of the forum that cyfswatch has provided. All success to cfyswatch and justice for its supporters.
Brandon Hutchison, Christchurch
ps. Yes, a site that named and shamed nasty or crooked cops would be justified, but the need is much less, as unlike cyfs, it is possible to do something about them through normal channels.
January 30th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
sorry about the multiple postings but when I attempted to post I got an error telling me that the process had failed. it obviously hadn’t. Brandon Hutchison
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Yes it’s been doing that all the time lately (well to me anyway) – I just accept that the error message is the new “your comment has been posted”
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
“I can’t wait for the news that will follow on from similar headlines at the NY Times, Newsweek, CNN, Time Magazine, and so many other similarly politically corrupt socialist propaganda outlets…
“NZ Herald announces major lay offs”…”
..and it looks like Tv One is about to suffer a similar fate. Hooray..!! When will these stupid stupid leftists realise that trying to shove a political ideology down the public’s throat is going to make them unpopular with that public? What has to happen with these people before they wisen up and change the damn message??
Vote:January 30th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
When are you sending your CV to TV 1 RB?
I can see the cover letter now
Career goals-Smashing leftist Ideology
Qualifications-er……
Vote:January 31st, 2007 at 10:09 am
While I don’t like the CYFS watch blog because of the personal attacks on social workers, I do agree blogs in general are a great way of debating current issues, voicing frustrations and indeed in some cases making those who have acted irresponsibly accountable and responsible for their actions.
Vote:We know blogs rub people up the wrong way, but they only seem to anger people that have something to hide.
I believe a lot of people are getting a hard time from CYFS, police, and other Government run departments and there is a need to get that message out there.
I don’t like postings marked anon as if you have a gripe you should at least have the courqage to put your name to it.
BTW, a posting supposedly from me appeared on a site labelling a police officer name included as vindictive. While I did not give permission for this post the officer has had fun trying to accuse me of defammation even though the description quite aptly fitted her behaviour.