Destiny NZ disbands
Yay. The Destiny NZ Party has disbanded.
However the party leader, Richard Lewis, will be co-leader of a new broader multi-denominational Christian party.
The other co-leader has been chosen but is a secret. So much for open and transparent democratic parties.
I don’t object in a general sense to a family values party. United Future has generally been a relatively benign example of one. My objections are when they more resemble Christian Heritage and are relatively extreme. It will be interesting to see who are the key people in this new party, and what policies they will have.
Labour no doubt will be hoping they are successful in getting 4.9% of the vote.
UPDATE: Gordon Copeland has announced he is the other co-leader. It makes a lot of sense considering he has over a year to go in Parliament and can use that for profile.
I like Gordon. He’s been on several Select Committees I have appeared before and is always diligent, and asks sensible questions rather than score points. Motivated by his beliefs and I have no problem with that. I reserve judgement on his new party, but I’ll be frank – something that looks like a coalition with Destiny does not appeal greatly. They got a mere 0.6% of the vote. You need a much broader church than that to make 5%.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Who am I going to vote for now?
September 18th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Whatever the new party’s called of course! United Destiny! Or whatever.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
This looks more and more like Brain Tamaki is becoming a false phrophet.
he prophesised the destiny party would become the govt with no less an endorsement than Martin Luther Kings daughter.
his prophetic announcement has until the next election to come true.
If it does not he should relinquish leader ship his church.
He knows the punishment for a false prophet; stoning
a stoned false prophet does not lead churches any more
September 18th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Sorry to jump threads with this but I’d still like to know why DPF prefers the EB to Destiny.
[DPF: And suspension No 2 is getting closer. And the question has been answered]
September 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Has anyone left a christian party recently because they weren’t christian enough?
September 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
So after all that, it turns out he’s not the Messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I thought he answered. The aren’t as homophobic.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
My guess as to the “secret one”… Taito Philip Field?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
The other co-leader has been chosen but is a secret.
Oh please let it be Copeland.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
It will probably be Gordon Copeland… he has the experience in Parliament and will be better able to attract media attention. Furthermore he would allow the party to have a ‘multi-ethnic Christian’ thing going on for it.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
It’s Copeland!
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=124519
September 18th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Oh yes, Copeland – he’d be just wonderful.
However, as Tamaki likes to call himself “Bishop” and Copland is RC, I think there could be some real difficulties.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Look, could you folk leave your prejudices aside and think about this from a right-wing political viewpoint for a moment. Labour is down in the polls, there’s possibly a sizable constituency, particularly amongst disenchanted church-going Pacific Island voters who may be looking for a new party to vote for. While you may not personally agree with the values of this new party, it may be a partner for National in the next government.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
No it hasn’t.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
They should merge with the Direct Democracy Party…
Taito and Kelvn Alp for co-deputy-leaders? :p
September 18th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“it may be a partner for National in the next government.”
Interesting, I can see the billboard now,
A vote for John Key is a vote for Brian Tamaki
Thats going to go down well with National’s target voters.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
qwell, it would be a rhyming billboard ala iwi kiwi except it would be JohnKey Tamaki.. hey I can hear the krumping in the distance already….
September 18th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
“They got a mere 0.6% of the vote.”
Enough for a seat…
September 18th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
..Actually I suspect that the co-leader wasnt announced at the media conference becase Copeland wasnt told that his co-leader was Lewis… I wonder how long this will last
September 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
DPF: Gordon Copeland has announced he is the other co-leader.
and
Newstalk ZB: Mr Copeland says the decision to choose Mr Lewis as the other co-leader was a complete surprise.
Gosh, this party’s off to a roaring start.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Paul – they are just as homophobic if not more so but they are less open about it because they shun society (unless trying to secretly influence an election counts). While Tamiki may propagate hate he is not a child abuser nor has he covered it up in his church. The EB can not claim that.
If DPF is willing to let it stand that he thinks the homophobic, child-molesting EB are a better bunch of chaps than the homophobic destiny crew. Then yes the question is answered.
Oh, and it looks like I may be banned for this but I thinks it’s a pretty important question considering the past (?) connections between Farrar’s party and the Brethren.
[DPF: And bye bye - back in two weeks. Suggesting I have any view but total intolerance for child abuse is not within the boundaries of debate here.]
September 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Gordon Copeland has all the political skills of Dick Hubbard.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I guess that’s the reality of MMP. Somehow the Labour supporters I interact with have coped with having NZ First on board.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Let us witness the PI voters starting to desert Labour, as they come to see them as the insincere, platitudinous white trash that they are.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
I have to say, as a Christian, that I have detested Brian Tamaki’s exclusivist approach to leadership. I also have little time for religiously driven parties.
If you look a the example set by Christ, the oppressed jews of the day were desperate for him to bring a external political force to neuter the power of the romans. Did he? No. Instead he worked to teach righteousness to anyone who would listen and remained well out of politics, but possibly a pain in the ass to the political authorities.
My view, we need more Christian values in politics and fewer Christian political parties.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
“If DPF is willing to let it stand that he thinks the homophobic, child-molesting EB are a better bunch of chaps than the homophobic destiny crew.”
Should be careful there Robinson, you’ve just slandered the members of an entire church.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Adolf, entitled to your opinion. I’ve met GC a couple of times and my impression of him mirrors DPF’s
September 18th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Gosh, this party’s off to a roaring start.
As I said over at my own place, but I think it’s worth repeating, a little schism is a fine Christian tradition.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Simply put, if a Christian Party is ever to succeed in New Zealand, Gordon Copeland is the person to do it.
If.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Bev – sorry mate I was generalising. It’s only a select few of the EB that have been found guilty of child abuse. The rest just covered it up. As for the homophobia – of course everyone in destiny and the EB is homophobic, it’s in line with the instructions of their churches. If they are not then they are lapsing and should concern themselves with the nature of their souls.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
the worlds most homophobic folks are those that use the word the most often.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
“As for the homophobia”
What’s homphobia? Some kind of mental disease? How many people have been professionally diagnosed as sufferers? How many people have been treated for it? How many people have been cured?
Or is it just one more piss weak PC term, and like all such terms, merely designed to stifle debate?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
“What’s homphobia”
Hating and fearing people who are homosexual.
Anyone care to deny it exists?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
“Bev – sorry mate I was generalising. It’s only a select few of the EB that have been found guilty of child abuse. The rest just covered it up.”
Wow dude, two in the same thread.
And here I thought it was only one guy – oh and any proof that the others covered it up?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
“What’s homphobia”
Fear of camels?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Interesting development happening here folks.
Normally it would be a concern that a Christian based party would take conservatives from the National vote.
But without trying to stereotype to much if you look at the Destiny followers that attend their protest marches you think you could virtually guarantee that only a very small percentage would have ever voted National.
Likewise the Pacific Island constituency which has historically been firmly in Labour’s camp,(most would never vote National) has been turned off by Clark’s social engineering and are ripe for picking by a new political vehicle merging conservative Christian principles with social justice.
So my take is that as long as National doesn’t deliberately upset its Christian supporters Labour has far more to fear from the new movement than National.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
“Anyone care to deny it exists?”
Lets see if it exists Sonic.
Anyone out there frightened of queers?
Anyone out there who hates queers?
September 18th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
KK said: “My view, we need more Christian values in politics and fewer Christian political parties.”
Before you get slated for implying that Christian values are “better” than non Christian values I thought I would deflect some scorn my way so that you are not alone….because you are bloody right.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Sonic, it exists. Like four-leaf clovers do.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Good Grief All they need now if for El Jeffe to join them and they will have the Holy Trinity.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Im with you Reg the PIs wont vote the nats but they will vote for a Christian based party If Taito gets off the charges he could command a winning majority and either join them or align with them. So we could have Nats Act Dunny the whatever Christians call themselves plus El Jeffe. What a coalition of the willing that would make!!!!!
September 18th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Hold on David, Bok openly accused Robinson of being a child molester and called him a rapist. Surely he should be banned too?
[DPF: I can't see that comment in this thread. Can you post a URL. Also as a general note I have a far lower tolerance for accusations at me, than at others. But regardless calling anyone a child molester or a rapist is well beyond what is acceptable for anyone. If someone can send me a URL I'll consider whether Bok gets a warning or worse. And this is why I want moderators soon - I have plenty of offers - just need to set them up]
September 18th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Reg, It would appear as if the Pacific island vote is quite a large number for Labour to start losing.
What will Mugabe Klark do now in response to this development.
It will have outlaw all Christians?
No just some of them because Bill English cornered Maheray in Question time this arvo about whether the EFB would effect the Catholic church and it forced Cullen to leap to his defense and quickly make Maheray agree to make sure that the EFB is changed so that it doesn’t effect the Catholics but still effects the EB’s (and now probably the new Copeland/Destiny)
How discriminatory is that!!!!
The EB’s will soon have to where Yellow Stars
September 18th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
And before anyone invokes Godwins law Calculus is right the Socialists have bought all this on themselves When a Minister of the Crown singles out a particular Church as being exempt ( despite being the church of the questioner) then that Minister has commiteed a gross act of discrmination His correct reply should have been All will be treated equally under the law There will be no special favours or prefernences.
fat chance with this corrupt pile of garbage
September 18th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
David, here’s today’s example:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/09/human_rights_commission_on_electoral_finance_bill.html#comment-340972
Bok Says:
September 18th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
This is better than watching sonic in little roger getting put in their place. Now we have a little vile molester (try carry on like he did, in a work place and see how quickly you end in litigation) “growing up” in a month. And wants to be taken seriously. He makes this place smell.
The rapist remark was a week or two back just before Robinson got banned the first time.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
“Lets see if it exists Sonic.
Anyone out there frightened of queers?
Anyone out there who hates queers?”
No I’m not frightened of them, and neither do I hate them. But you can probably guess I would invite them to leave their lifestyle, if they want. No hate or fear in that, just an invitation that can be taken up, if they want.
Go ahead Sonic, ask me why I think that.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
the Destiny media conference is on YOu Tube here
http://www.youtube.com/destinytv
September 18th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
KrazyKiwi
Not sure what you’re on about. I agree Mr Copeland is a nice guy. Well meaning, conscientious and diligent but a bit of a dil, all the same. He won’t last five minutes.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
I wonder if Copland now sees homself as that extra National MP. A right-wing Christian party will mainly draw votes from National and United Future, making it more difficult for National to to form a government.
September 18th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Would the “thought police” please rule on my case.
I am not scared or fearful of Gays, nor do I hate them but I regard homosexual activity as wrong.
Am I Homophobic? and if so why?
September 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Who wants to bet Gordon Copeland forgets to vote for himself…
September 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
GD
Gordon Copeland must now withdraw his proxy confidence vote from Labour if they are going to treat different religions separately under law as you very rightly point out and- As Cullen foolishly made Maheray do today at Question time.
First of all I defend Destiny but now I am appalled that with the EB’s treatment today by Labour they obviously are a threat to National Security much more than Zaowi and his muslim faith and fatwas.
No wonder the Yellow Stars!!
September 18th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
They disbanded?
Proof positive the self righteous actually can bore themselves to death.
September 18th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I agree more with Reg and less with dave. One should not assume Christian politics in NZ is the same as in the US. As we know there is a powerful Christian vote in the US and this is closely linked with the right-wing GOP. We do not have such a lobby (of the equivalent influence) in NZ. If this new party is marketed right it will gain votes from all over the political spectrum (Taito – left, Copeland-centre, Lewis-right?) however if the media focuses on it’s favourite pet-hate, Tamaki, the party will become just as Destiny NZ is now and will be resigned to the scrapheap before too long.
A good start for them would be to call themselves the Christian Party. Boring I know but it it signifies that they are thee Christian Party, exactly as the Maori Party have done so well.
September 18th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Reg, I await the judgement of your case by the “thought police” as to whether you are “Homophobic”
also could the “thought police” also rule on a new very virulent and contagious condition called “brethrenophobic”
September 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
It appears as if the Labour Party has this dreaded condition
September 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
And – poof (no pun intended) just like that redbaiter and co have laid to rest for once and for all the myth that is ‘homophobia’. They’ve exposed it for the world-wide communist plot that it truly is – well done chaps. Now – I also hear that the National Front have recently exposed the myth of anti-Semitism (apparently it was created by the Zionist Jews, in order to persecute anyone who stood in the way of their plot to gain control of the international banking system). Truly – we have reached Martin Luther King’s promised land – a world free of hate and prejudice. Yet still people come on kiwiblog and complain about the state of things.
September 18th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Good point calculus Gosh these events are all moving far to quickly for such a simple sole as myself. Now whose voting for which party today ans will they still be voting for that party tomorrow. as they say a week etc etc
September 18th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
gd: “…a simple sole as myself”. Not like you to get walked over, gd
As for the questions on homophobia and the appeal of this new party, I’m reminded of the time I worked someplace for a Pacific Island boss. Being a devout churchgoer he had no time for homosexuality or other “sins”.
One day he came back from lunch and announced to the office he’d signed the HUG petition (Heterosexuals Unafraid of Gays, for those that have short memories – a group I suspect would be banned under the EFB despite being in favour of the lifestyle practiced by several Labour MPs).
Anyway, back to the story… I congratulated him on this new open-minded and tolerant attitude. “That’s right,” he said, “I signed it to show I’m not afraid of those queers – they don’t scare me”. And in such minds lay the foundations of the Destiny Church.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Question no.2 for the Thought Police.
If I accused the Gay community of Child abuse,then retracted it but went on to accused them of harbouring child abusers; would I be regarded as Homophobic?
P.S. This is a rhetorical question. I am not personally making these allegations.
P.P.S Just in case the Thought Police are fighting over who should answer this one, I’ll make it easy for them by nominating Robinson( or if he has left work roger nome)
September 18th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
“If I accused the Gay community of Child abuse,then retracted it but went on to accused them of harbouring child abusers; would I be regarded as Homophobic?”
What a silly question reg. You speak of the “gay community” as though they were some kind closed-off and monolithic community, that all live by the same 2000 year old book, and take orders from a grand patriarch living overseas.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
It’ll be interesting to see whether this new party picks up any of the old Christian Heritage (minus the obvious of course), Christian Democrats or Unitied Future (beyond Copeland) hierarchies or whether it’s just going to be Destiny in drag.
I think the broad base of the 1996 Christian Coalition was one of it’s main strengths. Destiny’s involvement may turn off more liberal christians in a way pre-conviction Caphill didn’t.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
You seem to have strayed from the “Human Rights Commission on Electoral Finance Bill” thread. But there are a couple of questions for you, from various people, and still unanswered. Any chance of you responding to those before your girlfriend picks you up?
September 18th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
As long as the don’t have Tamaki they still won’t corrupt NZ. Bigots like that are more dangerous than the entire Labour front bench.
September 18th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Sorry roger nome I forgot you socialists have a habit of side stepping questions by raising technical difficulties.
I’ll rephrase Question No.2 (You obviously forgot to answer Q1)
If I suggested that Homosexuals tended to abuse children, then retracted it but said the tend to cover for their Gay friends when they molest kids. Would I be regarded as Homophobic?
P.S And again this is merely a hypothetical question.
September 18th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Nevertrustahippy
Yes, I do wonder who are the Presbyterian ministers allegedly featuring on the ‘Board.’ Certainly not Revs Margaret Mayman or Rinny Westra. Of the Presbyterians I know at the conservative end of the spectrum, Destiny would be too tough for them to contemplate an overt relationship. I suspect the ‘presbyterians’ might be part of Grace Presbyterian, an ultra conservative fundamentalist grouping which left the mainstream Pressie church a few years ago. Good luck to them.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
A well organised, well lead Christian party will easily get past the 5% mark. There are so many issues where Labour has made morally bankrupt decisions and where National has submitted in a bid remain uncontroversial. However, Gordan Copeland has the political judgement of a hedgehog and Tiato Phillip Feild is a criminal in the eyes of many. Good luck to them.
September 18th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
“What’s homphobia”
Hating and fearing people who are homosexual.
No its not. It means fear of sameness (swot up your Greek).
Anyone care to deny it exists?
Yes. I will deny that your definition of it exists.
Disagreeing with something does not entail hatred or fear.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Calculus,( @4.23pm)
Very good spotting,
New rules for Religious discrimination in NZ.
Muslims OK Falun Gong NOT OK
Catholic OK EB’s NOT OK
Destiny NOT OK Copeland and co ????
TO QUOTE TODAY
I think the Minister of Justice has made it clear a number of times that the intention of this legislation is to capture people like the Exclusive Brethren, not the Catholic Church as in the example the member has pointed out—that is, the Catholic Church going about its normal process of issue-based discussion, and not supporting a particular party but simply explaining an issue. The member wishes he could find an example like this to make it stick but, I am sorry, he cannot.
Then he went on further with Cullen and said
Hon STEVE MAHAREY: The substance of the question from Mr English was why the Catholic Church would worry. My answer was that it would worry if it was being communicated to by people on the National benches about this issue in a distorted way, as it has been. That is the source of the problem.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen: Will the Minister ensure that the bill is amended so that the Catholic Church’s campaign can proceed, given the facts that thanks to Working for Families this Government has cut child poverty by two-thirds and the National Party opposed the Working for Families package?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY: I will ensure that that takes place, because of course this is the kind of good news that the National Party does not like but that ought to be told right across New Zealand.
I thought the EB’s were simply raising issues as well but Catholic’s now will be provided for so could the
Labour trolls explain how the poor taxpayer could be enlightened on the difference????
I think your Yellow Star reference has some very alarming and sinister warnings for NZ. Could we have a reality check here is this 2007 or 1937.
What does the VRWC think of this now.???
September 18th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Adolf, Grace Presbytarian are not fundamentalist. I was a member of Grace for 5 years until moving to Auckland.
Plenty of Presbytarians would have plenty of time for the new Christian party which is most certainly not a Destiny thing (the likes of Mayman and Westra are a tiny tiny minority within Presbytarian NZ), the concept was not driven by Destiny but by remnants of Future NZ and Christian Heritage.
That said the presbytarian ministers are probably Reformed Church ministers. The Reformed Church is not fundamentalist either but it is more conservative than Grace.
Destiny has been on the verge of merging with another Christian party for some years – in fact they got close with Christian Heritage but there was not enough room at the top for the two egos and later under Ewan McQueen’s leadership it didn’t fly because Destiny wanted to call too many of the shots and CHNZ, the party with more experience and historical support, couldn’t live with that. Destiny it seems has now seen the light.
Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I have nothing to do with this new party and at this point am unlikely to. Given it has been driven by Future NZ who are far too statist for my tastes, I am not likely to unless the rumours about the mass sign up of ex CHNZ members are true as they are considerably more right wing and might be able to drive the policy in the right direction. We will see.
What I was most heartened by was John Key’s comments. National must not alienate itself like it had previously to the right of centre and beyond Christian vote which is far bigger than most think.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
It’s pragmatism. Sick, warped pragamatism to be sure, but there you have it. EBs don’t vote but hundreds of thousands of Catholics do.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Homophobia – we all know what it means… Why pretend that it doesn’t exist? You don’t like the term, tough – it’s probably the most accurate word.
I’ve always struggled with how someone can disagree with a sexuality. It’s like disagreeing with someone’s eye colour. Bizarre…
Oh, and I’d love someone to tell me their personal story of when they “decided” to be straight.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Reg why beat about the bush?
A disproportionately high number of paedophilic acts are homosexual. Likewise, most burgularies are committed by darker skinned people. Most serial killers are white men. Most child beaters are women.
Facts are facts. There is no need to hide from speaking them because of sacred cows.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Weizguy, people do not disagree with a sexuality, they disagree with an action – a certain type of sexual conduct.
People do this all the time, many people have a low view of adultery and consensual adult incest and necrophilia. They are of the opinion that if people have inclinations to do the wrong thing they should keep it in their pants.
Holding to an opinion contrary to yours on what sexual conduct falls into the realm of ok and what is in the realm of not ok, does not mean that they are suffering from a psychosis or that they hate and fear people who commit adultery or incest.
September 18th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
STEVE MAHAREY: “I think the Minister of Justice has made it clear a number of times that the intention of this legislation is to capture people like the Exclusive Brethren, not the Catholic Church.”
These people in this government are evil and insane. Just what sort of person would make a statement like this?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:12 am
“Homophobia”: A term coined by heterosexual psychologist George Weinberg in 1969, defined as “a loathing of homosexuals, and a homosexuals internal self-loathing”.
Which of course has nothing to do with either fear of homosexuals, or of holding an alternative opinion at odds with the homosexual lobby.
Steve Taylor
http://www.ddp.co.nz
September 19th, 2007 at 1:38 am
I understand that the Napier destiny church was disbanded, as it were, because the pastor did not agree with Bishop(what a joke)Tamaki when he announced that only the working class people are accepted into his church.Jesus would never turn away an unemployed person no matter what little skills he has. And he wonders why things are going wrong for him….GET A GRIP BRIAN!
September 19th, 2007 at 1:42 am
The he I was referring to in that last sentence is Bishop Tamaki
September 19th, 2007 at 6:47 am
” I like Gordon. He’s been on several Select Committees I have appeared before and is always diligent, and asks sensible questions rather than score points. “
” Wallys of the Week
September 13th, 2007
No 1 Wally award goes to Gordon Copeland. NZPA reports on how he put out a press release criticising the response to a question, hours before he actually asked the question!!
Independent MP Gordon Copeland was mocked in Parliament today for putting out a response criticising an answer to a question, hours before the question was even asked.”
I’d have thought voters would expect a ‘Christian’ Party to be honest and display some integrity in comparison to the usual performance of politicians, but these people are screwed before they are even off the ground.
[DPF: I can like and even respect an MP, but still criticise them for specific events. I don't know why so many people have a hard time with that]
September 19th, 2007 at 7:49 am
Looks like they are about to split even before they have launched!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4206405a6160.html
September 19th, 2007 at 8:07 am
yes – poor planning and rollout of this one.
the MSM love a little Christian bashing so we could expect a process of discreditation to begin regardless of how well or otherwise the launch went.
September 20th, 2007 at 12:52 am
I have to agree with Adolf’s initial comment “Gordon Copeland has all the political skills of Dick Hubbard.’
Based on the One News article tonight, Gordon also has the leadership skills of an idiot. Why would he criticise/demean the party he is about to co-lead like that? He is truly an amateur. Others have pointed out the recent faux pas of responding to an answer to a question not yet asked, plus there was a blooper when he initially left UnitedFuture (can’t recall the specifics sorry).
Like Dick hubbard, I have no doubt he is a genuine bloke (putting aside political tendancies), but he clearly does not have the leadership, nor political nouse required of him. Shame really.