No Right Turn decides to smear
You know last year I always gave No Right Turn out as an example of a superb blog. A clear left wing view point but principled, and focused on policy not personal attacks etc.
Maybe it is having done away with comments (which he is entitled to do so) but his tone and style have changed in the last year and moved far more to name calling and slogans over analysis. It’s a pity because as I said I always held it up as a model for a effective respected political blog.
I’m not going to catalog the various stuff over the last few months, but I can’t ignore today’s example where he labels the idiots who have again attacked Helen Clark’s electorate office with a brick as “the kiwiblog right”.
That is an outrageous smear. It would be like me labelling Tim Selwyn’s attack on the same office as the work of the “No Right Turn left” because both Tim and Idiot/Savant opposed the Foreshore and Seabed Act which his brick throwing was about.
It is a matter of record that I condemned the first attack when it happened. I even got attacked by People Power (who did it) for my condemnation.
I/S is free to adopt whatever style he wants on his blog, and I am sure my approval doesn’t count for a lot. But when he deliberately tries to smear me with something I have never supported and explicitly condemned in the past – well that’s reflects far more on him than me.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
“No Right Turn decides to smear”
Oh how the mighty have fallen – that bloated, complacent, self-appointed member of the highly enlightened intelligentsia resorts to baseless smears.
Absolutely fucking typical.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
It seems the No Right turn left have struck again, with another bullet clean through their own foot. Shouldn’t these dickheads be ignored already?
Unfortunately, with Labour still floundering round looking for people to demonise and pandering to the worst elements of the sewer, this is likely to get worse before it gets better.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Idiot (I’ll drop the Savant part) has learnt his lessons from Goebbels.
The objective is to maximise propaganda/exposure and smear the enemy using all available tricks.
DPF, ignore him and treat the imbecile with the contempt he deserves.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
We will see a lot of this during the year. A friend who works at parliament has told me that the Labour MPs and the Labour staffers are more miserable now than they were even last year.
I suppose I would be too if the prospect be losing your job when you skill set is redundant was hoist upon me. (no need for lefty lickspittle come post election 2008)
Their negative atitude therefore seeps and spreads like a cancer – anyone associated ends up being a prick.
(on the other hand the National MPs and Staffers are walking around with a good spring in their step. Positive attitudes are winning attitudes.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
“I’m not going to catalog the various stuff over the last few months, but I can’t ignore today’s example where he labels the idiots who have again attacked Helen Clark’s electorate office with a brick as “the kiwiblog right”.”
Maybe it’s because you regularly host far-right lunatics on your blog, who repeatedly intimate violence against other posters they don’t like? Certainly it can’t be said that no-right-turn is your left wing equivalent in this respect.
What’s funnier is that you link to a “people power” press release which reads like a typical comment from a right-wing kiwiblog commentator.
So if the cap fits why not try it on for size hey DPF?
January 30th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
DPF,
I don’t know what I/S meant by the term but when I read it I thought he was referring to the community at kiwiblog rather than the author. People like Grant S, D4J, Redbaiter and everyone else that prevents something akin to rational discourse happening here read exactly like the unhinged malcontents that write People Power’s blog.
And the sort of folks that would write “Viva la Refrendum” on a brick actually
January 30th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Very Pontius Pilate of you DPF.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
How utterly contemptible. toms, Roger and I/S shows their true colours already.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Roger nome – please withdraw and apologise! Those people don’t even begin to compare with some of our more spectacular companions on here.
To whit, (because unlike you I DO think this stuff is fully worthy of cataloging for the future – you can’t buy material like this) here are some classics:
January 9th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
I go Mallard shooting at Lake Ellesmere with Gerry and other old school mates . Good moral right folk. We also hook a few lefty sea lampreys when we are there . It’s a blast .
January 8th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
You ain’t seen nothing yet as what I am going to put up on my blog before the election will see litigation from liarbour suckholes . See if care – bring it on bitches .I have only just started my attack on the feminazi’s that have shut men out of this country.
January 9th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Talking about perverted thoughts, I think it appropraite to remind all New Zealanders that Helun Klark called West Coasters “feral inbreds”
… or for a slightly different flavour:
January 18th, 2008 at 10:27 am
The so called Greens are the new Fascists and they need to be exposed as what they are. Civilized people should be saying and doing more to confront the destructive ideology that underpins the environmental movement.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Political correctness ain’t gonna save your commie arse this time around.
January 14th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
You wouldn’t know “productive” if it was chewing your fat useless commie arse off.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Roger Nome writes in support of this dishonourable smear. You may wish to be known as a tolerant liberal Mr. Farrar, but it amazes me that you continue to put up with the disgusting and voluble shit this cowardly propagandist puts out on your site.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
“Redbaiter and everyone else that prevents something akin to rational discourse happening here”
That is mere leftist code, a distortion of what happens when when they (socialists) are challenged on their propaganda and lies. Get this you sanctimonious creep. I do not smear people by associating them with criminal acts that they are totally detached from. This is a cowardly and despicable action.
Nothing new tho. Mr Farrar may be surprised by such an event. I’m not, and anyone who is vehemently opposed to socialism knows too well what they have to endure from the left. Smears and lies are only the half of it.
The real reason that such as Idiot Savant are reacting the way they are is that their anxiety is growing in proportion to the number of people who are gradually awakening to the fact that socialism is a scam. The Utopian dream is slipping away, and its all people like David Farrar’s fault. Wisen up Idiot, you can only fool some of the people for some of the time…
January 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
roger nome Says: Maybe it’s because you regularly host far-right lunatics on your blog…
Actually Roge, DPF no more ‘hosts’ far-right lunatics, than he ‘hosts’ moronic left wing lickspittles.
What he does do is allow a variety of view points and opinions, many of which are abhorrent to the majority of the readership of Kiwiblog. (views like yours Roge)
His postings and views stand up to scrutiny and robust debate and frankly begs the question, what are your mates afraid of?
He is no more responsible for the rantings of one side than the other and this petty and malicious attempt to link him (or the readership of this blog) to actions at Mien Klarks electorate office is disgraceful and oh so very typical of the left.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
But calling anyone you disagree with a socialist isn’t a smear, obviously?
January 30th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Yeah I too have noticed a difference in I/S’s writing style. He does seem a lot more vindictive. I think you have been rather generous DPF in your acknowledgement of his points (and those of others). However the tone of NRT makes it appear to be not much more than another Red/Green attack blog.
This is a shame. Although I rarely agreed with I/S his blog was always (circa 2005 at least) a place where robust debate took place – in a decent manner. Since comments are now off debate is not possible. Perhaps the comments played a more moderating influence than one would have thought.
I/S, if you’re reading this, you really ought to think about your shrill tone. I’m not one to want your ideas to suceed, but I do think they would stand a better chance if you were to revert to your old style – comments or otherwise.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
“Kiwiblog right” is a complement David. For some leftie to label an attack on Clark’s office to your very successful blog is a blatant attempt at a smear. And as such underlines your success. But you will have to do better than adopt a cry baby attitude to this. If the left smear you in this way then place the blog touch on them and if they put the blow touch on you then nuke them.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I should not get too upset by a site that refuses to allow comments.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
DPF, I’ve been reading your blog since the beginning and lurked around a bit on NZ politics before that and clearly you are not the sort to advocate any sort of political violence…BUT you provide a platform in your comments for a number of people who are clearly quite unhinged (no doubt some will reply to this and prove my point). If you are uncomfortable with the label of “kiwiblog right” then perhaps you should get your own house in order. Its a shame because the blog itself is usually an enjoyable read.
[DPF: There are something like 100,000 comments per year made here. Of course a very small proportion of them are shall we say unhinged - and that applies to left and right. I have long long ago given up reading every comment made. If someone e-mails me about a comment which breaks my posting policy, I consider it and apply sanctions where appropriate. I have done this on scores of occasions and banned and suspended many people. I know those on the left do not understand the concept of personal responsibility but I am not responsible for what any of the oh 100,000 different people who have read or commented this blog may or may not have done. Hell that murderer in Dunedin may have been a blog reader also - so why not blame his actions on me also. And you also miss the point I objected to. People can refer to the the "Kiwiblog Right" when pointing to something which has happened here. But to use it as a general smear term for a criminal act, done by persons totally unknown is scummy.]
January 30th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
<i>Maybe it’s because you regularly host far-right lunatics on your blog, who repeatedly intimate violence against other posters they don’t like?</i>
Replace far-right with far-left and voila! Le Standardista!
As for you, woger, go and get another cup of .
January 30th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Fuck them DPF, I had never heard of them until you mentioned it.
Do you really care what some low rent left wing scum bag says about you and your excellent blog?
Keep the moral high ground DPF, personally I would look at it as a badge of honour if you upset a few pinko’s.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Yep, something happened about a year ago and I/S went from critical commentary to labelling. It’s not just you either. NRT reckons John Key is a paedophobe.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
I’m sure your constant dog-whistling has nothing to do with the tone of the comments here.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I have never enjoyed NRT and I/S is no different from the bitter angry lefties who will turn on others for the good of his selfish ideology.
Last year I/S advocated that I be googlebombed as a rapist for comments ANOTHER blogger made on my blog.
As far as I care this blogger jumped the shark years ago and should be ignored like the rest of the blogger axis of stupidity.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Yeah I’m not sure what happened, but as you say it has gone as you describe Zippy. Maybe it will get better when the House resumes and he has some bills to blog on.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
“Innocent Bystander.”
Haw haw. What a laff. Rhetoric straight from the poisonous hate sites that in their intolerance and ignorance and venom and determination to silence the views they consider unapproved, are so perfectly representative of NZ’s Stalinist left and the power obsessed freaks that control this country. Go away with your transparent infantile deceit you pathetic simpering loser.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Yes, exactly RB – if these alleged unhinged people were posting on that leftie piece of crap posing as a blog, they’d be celebrated (but never invited to Friday night chardonnays).
January 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Knowing how much you love stats DPF…
This thread has 21 posts at the time of writing. Nine of them contain something fairly childish, obnoxious and/or aggressive from people clearly writing from a right-wing POV:
1: “bloated, complacent, self-appointed member of the highly enlightened intelligentsia”
2: “It seems the No Right turn left have struck again… these dickheads…”
3: “treat the imbecile with the contempt he deserves”
4: “lefty lickspittle”
5: “…disgusting and voluble shit this cowardly propagandist puts out..”
6: “you sanctimonious creep”
7: “Mien Klark”
8: “As for you, woger, go and get another cup of harden the fuck up.”
9: “low rent left wing scum bag… pinkos”
Of the remainder five are one-liners, four are pointing out to you that your commenters *are* rather obnoxious and about two make some kind of substantive agreement with you without resorting to being a dick.
I guess it really depends what is being suggested by “Kiwiblog right”. If it means “Obnoxious and aggressive” then really it does appear the boot might just fit.
And with that, I return to not bothering to post here. Because really, your commenters are way, way too obnoxious to bother with. I signed up to laugh at Chuck though, that Big Day Out = Gay event thing was hilarious. Let it never be said the far right is out of touch with popular culture…
January 30th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
What do you expect, Finn?
It’s a post about abuse hurled at this shadowy ‘kiwiblog right’. Of course there are going to be comments slamming NRT.
When your brain turns up, remember to stick it back up your arse where it belongs. How’s that? Number 10?
January 30th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
So here it is …
If I oppose a piece of government policy or decision making, I get labelled as a “right winger”. Then I get told about the “typical right winger” attitudes, and anything nasty from somebody described as “right wing” gets pinned on me, by implication. So blogs like The Standard and Norightturn want me to take personal responsibility for any comment they didn’t like. Well try this on for size guys.
- Typical woman.
- Typical black.
- Typical right winger.
- Typical leftist.
In fact, none of these are acceptable. And everybody engaged in this should stop it. And just to prove my point, here is my favourite recent quote from I/S.
“Unlike those on the right, I believe in democracy.”
WHAAAT? So because I don’t accept everything he says, suddenly I am an enemy of democracy? There has been heaps and heaps more of this type of stuff recently. Well I think it is shrill and vituperative, and displays a moral and intellectual decline. You’ve got to get out more, I/S.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
DPF, As probably the leading NZ political blogger you are in a perfect position to set the tone of the online debate…you choose not to and at times you actively dog whistle these people….if you want to talk about responsability…….
I accept that the high volume of posts (and we could trot out Helen’s line about being a victim of one’s own success here) is a factor but it is not an insummountable problem. PA system for example seems to manage to have large numbers of comments without the problems you have…and it isn’t because lefties are inherantly nicer people, its because Russell and co simply won’t put up with that crap. The posters know it and post accordingly.
I can certainly see why you are offended by the smear but I can also understand the sentiment behind it.
[DPF: So much for a rational debate. Anytime someone claims to be a mind reader, it is a sure sign they are not a random innocent bystander]
January 30th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
The left’s complaints about ‘abuse’ and ‘language’ are just self serving artifice. There is only one thing that irks them about Kiwiblog and that is that here, readers are able to express their contempt for the left free from their control.
It drives these bigots crazy that they cannot silence those who criticize them. If you’ve got the time to waste, look at their sites sometime, and you’ll observe the festering hate and intolerance for those of us who are fighting to free ourselves from their political and social dominance. Next to the constant stream of vile and propaganda based attacks on Kiwiblog, you’ll see the blog owners frantically deleting posts and even altering the text of messages from those who post there and confront their hate.
One thing I have to compliment Mr. Farrar on is his constant good humour. Some of the attacks from the left are such vile vicious cowardly rubbish, yet he remains above it all. Its what makes Kiwiblog different. So different from those poisonous sites that only exist to defile Kiwiblog.
Staggering that these people, whose only motivation in setting up their so called blogs is the personal destruction of another blogger, have the damn gall to criticise what is written here. Only the left could be so shamelessly unaware of their own stark unbelievable hypocrisy.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
David, I fear this post will increase the use of “kiwiblog” as a slur. You should be aware that the fucktards at your stalker blog and that piece of filth Robinson/d are spreading the term as an insult.
http://newzblog.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/the-kiwiblog-right/
http://kiwiblogblog.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/oh-diddums/
I think we should all be proud to identify as Kiwiblog right. The socialist tards may use it as an insult but to me it describes a group of rightwing thinkers with the drive to actively participate in politics and not sit back and let their country get pillaged by corrupt left scum.
[DPF: I have no problems with the term Kiwiblog Right. I only have a problem when people attribute something done by an anonymous person or group to it. Just as I am sure people would get upset if say someone desecrated Jewish graves with anti Israel slogans and I blogged that it was the work of the [insert left wing blog name here] anti-Israeli left]
January 30th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Finn Higgens
Here are some extracts from Norightturn’s recent posts about National. Could you please explain to me how they are different from your examples? Other than that they occur in posts rather than comments.
1. “with National still whiping up hate in its base and pandering to the worst elements of the sewer”
2. “But then, the aim seems more to be to appear tough and pander to paedophobe”
3. “his speech today was dripping with paedophobia … Key’s preferred tactic of threatening starvation doesn’t seem like a good solution”
4. “Unlike those on the right, I believe in democracy”
5.”The “mainstream” National Party seemed to have a conscious tactic last year of whipping up hate and pandering to the worst elements of the sewer. Well, this is where it gets them: hatelists and hitlists and people behaving like low-grade National Front thugs. And to those objecting to the comparison, I have only one thing to say: if you don’t want to be compared to Nazis, don’t behave like them.”
At least the last comment would have got him banned on The Standard.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
The big question of course is that if we’re so crazy, and so damaging to the right, then why the hell would the left be so obsessively focused on shutting us down?
The answer of course is that their expressed concern for the decorum of Kiwiblog is completely faked. What they want is to suppress ideas. Bogged down in tired old Stalinist style and rhetoric and mindset, they have no answer to the Kiwiblog commentators who reject their worldview.
Kiwiblog is popular because people are reading something different here, and it is this growing popularity, coupled with their own plunging popularity that is driving the left, those tired old Stalinist control freaks, utterly spare.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
“[DPF: So much for a rational debate. Anytime someone claims to be a mind reader, it is a sure sign they are not a random innocent bystander]”
I’m not sure what you are getting at here, you might have to be a bit less cryptic.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Agreed, RB. But I don’t think we will see anybody brave enough to take it to the public. John Key is too scared of upsetting the chattering classes. What we need is someone who isnt swayed by the left media and will take a stand. The right needs a leader with balls like Muldoon but without the stalinism. Someone who will cut through the bullshit and scythe these socialists down. Fifteen years ago I thought that would be Prebble but how wrong I was. Now I can’t see anyway it can be fixed.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
DPF: Yes, it was a shitty thing for NRT to say. Labelling any group in that way is a bit pathetic. I know that your attitude is that people can write what they like so long as it is within the posting policy, and that their comments reflect on themselves rather than on Kiwiblog.
The position of some others is that a blog owner has to take some responsibility for the tone and the style of comments. This is to some extent also true. The problem is that the very libertarian view you take doesn’t really allow you to control what people do other than at the margins. And, as it has been for some time, a few people really spoil it for everyone else. I won’t bother naming them since all regular readers know who they are – those from the right, those from the left, and those who are just nutjobs or idiots. Some are abusive, some incoherent, some deranged, and some just disruptive through deliberate misquoting and (dare I say it) outright lying that derails discussions as people do the legwork to prove the fact of the lies, by which time the troll has moved on to some other topic and refuses to engage.
And of course the folks above who love to accuse you of dogwhistling and other crimes – the benefit of course of an accusation like dogwhistling is that it is a conspiracy theory – a dogwhistle by definition is something that isn’t there, but that someone thinks that you really meant. A nice safe accusation, because it cannot be disproved.
So what should you do? Well, I think there are two options. Either crack down on the crap, and perhaps make Kiwiblog an echo chamber like Public Address, where even those who don’t agree with each other seem to spend their time agreeing. Ideally you would find some middle ground, but I’m not sure that is really possible.
Alternatively, accept the criticism as a badge of honour. Yes, Kiwiblog has all sorts of people. Some feral, some not. Some coherent, some not. Pretty much like society. Those that can’t handle what goes on here, really can’t handle life either. They couldn’t walk into a pub in south Canterbury and chat to people in the bar about what is going on in their life, they couldn’t walk into a wine bar in central Auckland or Wellington and have a discussion with the chardonnay sipping set. That reflects on them, not on this site.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
[DPF: I have no problems with the term Kiwiblog Right. I only have a problem when people attribute something done by an anonymous person or group to it. Just as I am sure people would get upset if say someone desecrated Jewish graves with anti Israel slogans and I blogged that it was the work of the [insert left wing blog name here] anti-Israeli left]
For the record I don’t think you should be ashamed to be associated with People Power. This government is an abomination. They have stolen freespeech from us but there are still people who will fight to have themselves heard.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Wonder how many complaints the “Innocent Bystander” has made concerning the level of hate and vitriol emanating from the Anti-Kiwiblog sites, where people are routinely referred to as “pig fuckers” and one of the hosts even has the indecency and cowardly dishonesty to use Mr. Farrar’s image as an avatar. Let me guess. Not even one. Innocent Bystander. Pfffft…, what feeble worthless crap.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
The third option is to stop dogwhistling.
That’s the whole point of dogwhistling, you can link approvingly to racists, climate change denialists, or religious zealots, and when someone calls you on it you can act all offended that anyone would accuse you of holding those opinions.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Exactly pete. You have no evidence, but can accuse DPF. Stopped beating your wife yet?
January 30th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
RB – Well done for getting the correct answer but I generally don’t read them as they mostly contain partisan immature rubbish not to mention being pretty obvious labour party attack sites – incidentally this was obvious before the standard was caught with their pants down so I’m not sure what all the fuss was about.
PaulL – I’m not sure why there is no middle ground here and why a “crack down on that crap” would turn kiwiblog into an echo chamber…an echo chamber is not what I want to see anyway and certainly not what I read blogs for.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
“Now I can’t see anyway it can be fixed.”
It can be fixed. We just need to break the left’s death grip on our culture. It can be done. Eventually people will awaken. When all the promises have been broken, and all of the deceit has been revealed, and all of the propaganda has worn too thin, and the platitudinous charlatans have been exposed, it is then that change will come.
The way to beat the left is with ideas, and as you say yourself, the articulation of those ideas.They have no answer to this strategy. Just stick to your guns. We will defeat them.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:15 am
David, if he is referring to you personally it is a smear, no doubt about it.
However if he means some of the extremists in your comments section (many of whom are way over the line when it comes to the violence of their rhetoric) he has a point.
NRT should, of course, clarify.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:20 am
“However if he means some of the extremists in your comments section (many of whom are way over the line when it comes to the violence of their rhetoric) he has a point.”
Like piffling sanctimonious little cowards whose contributions consist entirely of calling those with opposing ideas insane or attempting to smear Whaleoil as a liar? Get outta here. Your bigotry and hypocrisy is as disgusting to me as anything I’ve ever read on the internet.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:22 am
See what I mean David?
January 31st, 2008 at 12:28 am
Sonic:
When you’ve finished winding up Redbaiter on this thread, perhaps you could respond to my question (and those from others) on this thread? All in the name of robust debate, you see.
On the subject of this thread:
That is the sum and total of No Right Turn’s post. The second paragraph, in particular, requires some substantiation I would have thought.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:35 am
“When you’ve finished winding up Redbaiter on this thread”
I’ve made one comment today that even referred to the waste of space, so if he is “wound up” it is hardly my doing.
Have you read the people power website?
http://peoplepowernz.wordpress.com
Not much that we have not seen in the comment sections here (indeed some would say it is milder)
There is a nasty little wave going through the right at the moment, we saw it first over the pledge card, then the anti-smacking bill, and now the EFB.
You guys compare Helen Clark to Stalin, or Robert Mugabe, oh what a laugh. However there are people out there who take that seriously.
I think it is time the NZ right took a serious look at the sort of rhetoric it is using.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:40 am
Sonic:
“You guys compare Helen Clark to Stalin”
Here’s the thing. I speak for myself. No-one else speaks for me. So smearing by association really isn’t a persuasive strategy.
The same comment goes for “I think it is time the NZ right took a serious look at the sort of rhetoric it is using.” [as if the NZ right is a single collective entity].
I haven’t read the People Power website, and frankly don’t think I’ll bother.
I visit blogs to be informed and entertained. One quickly learns to skip over the dross to the more insightful nuggets of wisdom (or opinion).
January 31st, 2008 at 12:42 am
“I haven’t read the People Power website, and frankly don’t think I’ll bother”
Why not? worried what you might see there?
“Here’s the thing. I speak for myself. No-one else speaks for me. So smearing by association really isn’t a persuasive strategy”
Yet you do that to me all of the time Peak Oil, and rest assured I’ll be reminding you of the fact the very next time you do!
January 31st, 2008 at 12:47 am
Sonic:
It couldn’t be any worse than some of the diatribe I’ve seen served up on left-wing blogs. It comes down to individual contributions as much as the politics.
This is puzzling. I usually quote your words back at you, and seek clarification. Could I have, like, just one recent example?
January 31st, 2008 at 12:52 am
“It couldn’t be any worse than some of the diatribe I’ve seen served up on left-wing blogs”
Why not read it and see?
“Could I have, like, just one recent example”
I’ll just wait for the next one, always better to look forwards rather than backwards eh old chum?
January 31st, 2008 at 12:54 am
Sonic:
You said:
My reference to “some of the diatribe I’ve seen served up on left-wing blogs” wasn’t a reference to you.
You’ll need to try harder. Got any other recent examples?
January 31st, 2008 at 12:59 am
I’ll rely on future examples POC.
Us lefties like to look forwards not backwards!
January 31st, 2008 at 1:03 am
Sonic:
I suggest you just speak for yourself as at least one other “leftie” disagrees with you: Phillip John/Roger Nome keeps harking back to the 1980s and 1990s. Really, one would have thought he’d kept his reading up to date
January 31st, 2008 at 1:05 am
By the way, I’ll take it from “all of the time” that you can’t provide an example. Thanks anyway.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:07 am
I don’t know how familar you are with the great words of the Simpson’s POC, but if I may offer
Move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling toward freedom.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:17 am
Sonic:
Who do you think was responsible for this comment:
If I recall correctly, the authors of that blog have made much ado about cleaning up the blogosphere, at least on their blog – yet had nothing to say about that comment. DPF puts up with a lot of cowardly smears. I’m just saying that left-wing blogs sometimes breed discontent.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:27 am
Just clicked on Sonics link to the People Power website – they’ve struck again – this time its Phil Goffs office in Mt Roskill.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:42 am
POC, we are talking about threats of violence here.
That comment is hardly incitement, it may not be very funny but it clearly trying to be.
Oh and thanks for lumping me in with the Standard, I knew that you “smearing by association” would not take long.
Sonic 1 POC 0 I would say!
January 31st, 2008 at 1:46 am
More red faces for SIS eh lettermen.
I wonder if they wish they had spent less time wandering the hills chasing imaginary Maori plots to kill george Bush and a little more timer reading the comments here?
(only kiddin Mr Spook!)
January 31st, 2008 at 1:48 am
Sonic:
Leaving aside the obvious fact that my link was to Kiwiblogblog, kindly show me how I lumped you in with the Standard?
I’ll leave it to others to keep score
January 31st, 2008 at 1:51 am
By quoting something from some random lefty and asking me to defend it?
Anyway ot’s my game, so I’ll keep score!
;0
But seriously folks, one might imagine that “people power” are not the sort of group National wants popping up in an election year. I see now why our host made his pre-emptive strike.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:54 am
Sonic:
Jokes aside, you’re still not getting my point. Where’s No Right Turn’s “smoking gun” linking People Power to National?
January 31st, 2008 at 1:56 am
Well I doubt they are Labour voters POC.
The spectre of Right-Wing extremism, a new factor for us all to ponder.
Still it’s late, lets ponder tomorrow.
cheers
S
January 31st, 2008 at 2:03 am
I have had a read through the People Power website – they seem to be claiming no affiliation (political or otherwise) to anyone. Be funny if the “left” try to brand them “right”, and the “right” try to brand them “left”. They’ve posted commentary and articles from a number of different people (e.g from Minto to Moore), and some political experiences from other countries as well. They seem almost fiercely proud of their independence?
January 31st, 2008 at 2:27 am
Sonic:
None so blind as one who can’t (or won’t) see. The same reasoning could be applied to “prove” the Save Happy Valley Coalition practises left-wing extremism:
At least one green-friendly blogger finds their stance unacceptable.
And throwing a bone to any conspiracy theorists out there: a “Heather Simpson” (surely not THAT one) is a member of the Save Happy Valley Coalition!
When you return to this thread tomorrow, Sonic, you may care to reflect on whether No Right Turn has provided (DPF’s words) “a clear left-wing viewpoint, which is principled and focused on policy, not personal attacks”.
January 31st, 2008 at 2:28 am
[I'll break up my comment as it's gone into moderation]
Sonic:
None so blind as one who can’t (or won’t) see. The same reasoning could be applied to “prove” the Save Happy Valley Coalition practises left-wing extremism:
At least one green-friendly blogger finds their stance unacceptable.
January 31st, 2008 at 2:28 am
And throwing a bone to any conspiracy theorists out there: a “Heather Simpson” (surely not THAT one) is a member of the Save Happy Valley Coalition!
When you return to this thread tomorrow, Sonic, you may care to reflect on whether No Right Turn has provided (DPF’s words) “a clear left-wing viewpoint, which is principled and focused on policy, not personal attacks”.
January 31st, 2008 at 4:19 am
“That comment is hardly incitement, it may not be very funny but it clearly trying to be.”
Well I thought it was funny…..
And then we were all privileged to see a picture Whale Oil junior posted here a mere day or two later.
And I found that even funnier.
[DPF: What I find funny is you think I would allow you to carry on posting here, after you wrote that]
January 31st, 2008 at 5:30 am
if you want to see “not very funny” try this
http://kiwislog.wordpress.com/
January 31st, 2008 at 6:29 am
NPOG:
Of course – it was your comment after all. Here’s an idea: how about posting your name and sufficient identifying details? That way DPF can set up a thread, and can research your life then post jokes about you. What do you say, NPOG, are you up to it?
January 31st, 2008 at 9:16 am
So norightturn has now called me a hate filled bigoted mouthbreather. And this is okay how, exactly?
January 31st, 2008 at 9:43 am
I honestly can’t know what No right Turn meant by that term, but I would also think it highly likely he would be referring to the community of commentors here. A vocal percentage of whom, quite frankly, seem to need psyche medication more than I do. And when you build a community in this sort of format I suppose there will always be some sort of ‘guilt by association’. It isn’t necessarily fair, but it’s going to happen. Especially in politics, where using association, perception, and spin, is not just commonplace but largely inherent.
That said, I like your comments system here, it’s pretty reasonable, and allows ferals of all ideological bents to make comment (myself included).
January 31st, 2008 at 9:53 am
Oops I should have read NRT’s clarification first.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:29 am
Idiot/Savant has lost all credibility as he goes from outright hypocrisy to contemptible smears. Of course, the process started way back when he painted opponents of the anti-smacking bill as supporters of child abuse. A pity really, I used to enjoy what I thought were I/S’s principled defenses of human rights.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:36 am
Idiot has always been an idiot – lefties always smear and lie.
It’s a fact of nature – village idiots have no choice.
But it’s good fun to watch.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:02 am
From NRT –
“Having whipped up the hate and established an environment which has encouraged this sort of lunacy, it’s a bit rich of DPF to try and disclaim any responsibility now.”
“Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. If DPF doesn’t like his blog becoming a byword for a particularly odious strand of political extremism, then he has a simple option available: clean up his community. But if he continues to support and encourage such extremism, he can hardly complain when it begins to reflect badly on him.”
NRT’s favourie trick is to imagine that all his opponents are of a simliar nature to someone like d4j. Then follows a tiade of abuse towards these imagined foes. It’s a rather shallow form of political discourse.
A more intersting approach for NRT would be to engage not with d4j but with the larger number of people he may not agree with but who might disagree for good reason.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:29 am
As a true follower of EFA he doesn’t allow comments. I’ve made mine on Tony’s “I See Red”.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I/S shut down comments reluctantly, and with regret. It was becoming clear that his comments threads were slowly but surely becoming filled with the same kind of malicious abusive gutter commentary that predominates here, and pushing away regular commenters. In his words, he didn’t want his blog becoming part of the “sewer”, and the intensive moderation that would have been required was too great a drain on the time of someone who has things to do IRL.
NRT was a great place to have intelligent conversations with people from across the political spectrum – the typical response here is that he can’t handle free speech, but the reality was that he’d debate anyone (who stated themselves intelligently and didn’t resort to abuse). I’m as angry as anyone that his comments threads are gone, but I lay the blame squarely at the commenters here.
And with that, like Finn Higgins, I leave again.
(ps, I have a tip for anyone seeking vaguely rational debate – I only read the comments of those who post under their real name. It vastly increases the signal/noise ratio)
January 31st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
georgedarroch: In his words, he didn’t want his blog becoming part of the “sewer”, and the intensive moderation that would have been required was too great a drain on the time of someone who has things to do IRL.
Odd though that people (I/S included) denigrate DPF for not doing the intensive moderation that is such a great drain on the time of someone who has things to do IRL.
Those of us interested in rational debate, and yes that includes the strong viewpoints of both Redbaiter and Tane, appreciate the fact that he allows any and all to make their points in whichever way they choose. It’s up to the reader to determine what is dross and what is not.
For example, D4J has made several good arguments when he was not taunted. However, Roger Nome frequently succumbs to the temptation to torment D4J with all forms of vile accusations, implications and comments about his kids. Yet – people look at D4J as the nutjob, not at the people who taunt the bear in his cage with sticks.
Of course … there are days when it’s wiser to just skip over the Klarke and other slurs that emmanate from Christchurch
I consider myself to be a reasonably rational commentator and try to stay away from the whole sewage aspect of the debate even though there are people who’s dishonesty I loathe. Don’t always succeed though. But because I hold to a right wing viewpoint I/S has now by implication associated me and a number of other posters with whatever mental images people conjure when they hear such a time.
It’s not a very nice thing to do. He can keep on trying to justify it – or he can man up and apologize. Either way, it reflects more on him than it does on Kiwiblog.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Yes.
And exactly how does that treatment differs from this sort of comment?
Pots, kettles and black, on all sides.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:46 pm
it’s the compant you keep/encourage..dpf..
i mean..you resolutely ‘pimp’ for one of the worst offfenders..whaleoil..
(known to us as ‘blubby’..)
how can you expect not to be tarnished by your (apparant) endorsement of their vile/racist/reactionary drivel..?
methinks you doth protesteth too much..mr farrar..
or is it a uriah heepish handwringing you are engaged in..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 31st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Deborah: Pots, kettles and black, on all sides
Disgusting isn’t it? Wait. Are you a lefty? In which case I can’t trust that comment
January 31st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
FFS phil, if you cand get the punctuation right (sorry, …. correct) at least get a dictionary.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
oops …. “can’t”
January 31st, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Very good, Pascal
January 31st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
um..!..your punctuation..?..david..?
…and what are those …’s all about..?
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 31st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Pfft.. what a load of drivel.. The left, (including IS) have merely got their nickers in a twist because at long last they are facing real opposition. ..and they cannot deal with it.
I’ve got a solution for the posters writing here that they don’t like what is written on Kiwiblog.
Don’t read it.
GD above says he only reads the comments of posters with real (how does he know) names. Well hell, if that is so, what the hell is he complaining about??? More should follow his pattern, and then they can all spare us the fucking endless whining.
Nobody is forced to read Kiwiblog. People come here totally voluntarily, and if they don’t like what they read here they go away. Just as I stay away from most of the leftist blogs. Like who needs that tired old commie academic staffroom drivel, the back slapping and the discussions over whether tax rates are acceptable at 98% or 99%. Yawn. Fucken ivory tower academic troglodytes. ..and I don’t waste my time writing there complaining about content. I just stay away.
Kiwiblog is successful because its different. Its different because it isn’t dominated by tired old leftist academics in slippers and cardigans droning on with the same old same old decaying leftist arguments. There life here. Real blood flowing thru real veins.
Complain all you want commies. Your period of social and political domination is slowly but surely coming to its inevitable sad end. Its over. Baby baby baby, you’re out of time.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
no ratbiter..you come here for yr comfort..to be with like-minded people..
me..i don’t go near left blogs because i have no desire to nod along in agreement..
i come to these hives of ratbag rightery..t educate you..
it’s a ‘public service’ i am engaged in..
(you’re welcome..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 31st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
its all right Mr Farrar , checked out his blogg , you are safe , its the thoughts of a moron,.
January 31st, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Agree, Farrar. You err on the far too mild, far too wishy-washy on the real principles, side, when it comes to the REAL “right wing”.
January 31st, 2008 at 6:04 pm
gee john..!
that’s even harder than i was on ‘blubby’./whaleoil..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 31st, 2008 at 11:01 pm
“[DPF: What I find funny is you think I would allow you to carry on posting here, after you wrote that]”
Ahh but I know you don’t check kiwiblogblog – you have often told us that.
Besides if you really took offence it would suggest you are far more insecure than I took you for.
Lets be honest, if that is the best you have to play the victim over you have nothing to complain of.
”
Peak Oil Conspiracy Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 6:29 am
NPOG:
Well I thought it was funny.
Of course – it was your comment after all. Here’s an idea: how about posting your name and sufficient identifying details? That way DPF can set up a thread, and can research your life then post jokes about you. What do you say, NPOG, are you up to it?”
If I was likely to gain lots of patronage and income from a National Party victory I would be.
But as whoever wins in NZ politics it has no financial benefit for me, I don’t see any incentives for me.
Although if anyone wants to suggest that I am romantically involved with that svelte sex machine, Whale Oil, although the public humiliation would be deep I believe I could survive the exposure.