No sympathy from the Minister

March 24th, 2008 at 10:23 am by David Farrar

Housing Minister Marian Street is quoted in the Dom Post:

But Ms Street despairs at some of the “hard luck” stories.

The latest target of her ire is a weekend newspaper article about a young professional couple who turned up their noses at $400,000 do-ups in Grey Lynn and starter houses in “dodgy” outer suburbs. They were distressed when they found a two-bedroom townhouse in Herne Bay, one of Auckland’s most exclusive suburbs, was on the market at $900,000. …

“I’m really sick of reading stories about nice young couples who have got hugely high earning potential stretching out in front of them complaining about how awful the housing market is because they can’t get a house in Herne Bay.”

The couple in last Sunday’s article had dismissed $400,000 do-ups in Grey Lynn because they said they couldn’t afford to renovate – an argument that holds little truck with Ms Street.

So what are the details of this rich prick couple in the weekend media? Looks like a reference to this SST article:

Van der Stoep, a Sunday Star-Times journalist, and her partner, a fifth-year medical student, rent a one-bedroom apartment in Herne Bay, but are desperate for more space and a small garden they can call their own.

They won’t be in a position to buy until next year but they have already begun scouting the market to find a house at $385,000, the limit of what they can afford by spending 48% of their income a level which experts say causes “mortgage stress”.

Van der Stoep says the couple, who will have a combined income next year of about $76,000, have discussed pushing their budget up to $400,000 but even at $385,000 their finances will be stretched so they are reluctant to take on any more debt. They hope to save a 10% deposit.

“It actually makes a massive difference to your weekly payments. You don’t want to go at the end of the week `Oh my God, how am I going to afford the groceries?”‘

Van der Stoep says they looked at a small two-bedroom townhouse in Herne Bay which they thought might be within their reach only to discover it had a $900,000 pricetag.

So a couple earning $76,000 are now rich pricks. How dare they complain about spending 50% of their income on mortgage payments.

I don’t read the SST article as them complaining they can’t live in Herne Bay. It is complaining that even a modest house in a modest area is almost unaffordable for them.

And I am not sure about their “hugely high¬† earning potential”. A 5th year medical student may be a long way off “high earning” and medicine doesn’t pay anywhere as well as it used to.¬† Hell policy analysts earn more than some doctors. Likewise journalism isn’t known for its riches either.

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47 Responses to “No sympathy from the Minister”

  1. Monty (962 comments) says:

    Obviously not a Labour voter and therefore not worth the time of day. That is the attitude of the Labour Government – hate all rich pricks but bleed them to fund social programs (before they head off overseas)

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  2. jafapete (766 comments) says:

    Well, if they could wait a few more months they will find places in Herne Bay a lot more affordable, methinks. I’ve never been a fan of Street’s, but (1) she didn’t say “rich pricks” (2) maybe she has a point… did they look in Onehunga? For people not fortunate enough to live north of the Bombays, Herne Bay is a very high decile, expensive suburb. My wife and I couldn’t afford to live there, and we make more than twice as much as this couple.

    PS It’s Maryan Street BTW, not Marian.

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  3. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    jafaweep – Is Maryan another Liarbour Lesbo ?

    [DPF: And that is 10 demerits]

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  4. Craig Ranapia (1,912 comments) says:

    So a couple earning $76,000 are now rich pricks. How dare they complain about spending 50% of their income on mortgage payments.

    Um, wait a mo’ DPF… While I think Street deserves a good ping for her utter hypocrisy — somehow, I don’t think Street or her partner spend their weekends as DIY Amazons — , I think she does have a point. When David and I moved up here from Wellington, we had to had to just swallow the reality that we weren’t going to be able to afford a house equivalent to what we had before. That’s nothing new: My maternal grandparents had a very long engagement — and married in their mid-30′s — because my grandfather wasn’t going to marry until he was in a position to properly house and look after a wife and family. This was during the Depression.

    OTOH, its seldom as simple as ‘doing one room up at a time’ — you try being without a bathroom for a couple of weeks, especially when the tradesmen don’t show up on schedule or you’re trying to figure out WTF the money to cover the cost over-runs is coming from. :)

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  5. RossK (277 comments) says:

    To be fair this young couple is unrealistic. I don’t know anything about journalists’ earnings but doctors are like any profession – they are expected to be behind the earning curve in their twenties and early thirties and then make an obscene amount of money in their forties and later. That is just the way it is. What is interesting is how Ms Street thinks that the young couple should be happy with their huge earning potential (because that possible future money really makes up for the feeling of being left out the housing market now). When that young doctor leaves the country or, if he stays, starts charging ridiculous sums for his services so that only the very rich can afford his services that will be as a direct result of failed government policies which did nothing to prevent the housing bubble or his accumulation of enormous student debt.

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  6. Southern Raider (1,534 comments) says:

    I agree Craig and Ross . DPF you are way off the mark. Street is an idiot, but for once her point is valid.

    I meet a young woman at a party (don’t worry I was with my wife:)) and she had been out of university for 12 months. Her partner, herself and sister were looking to buy a house together. She said houses in the area were too expensive. I took this to mean around Ellerslie where the BBQ was. I suggested have you tried One Tree Hill or Mt Wellington, but she claimed they were too far out. When I clarified why she though Mt Wellington was far our from Ellerslie she said no from the city. So I enquired where she was looking. Guess the answer? They were trying for Parnell or Ponsonby.

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  7. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (762 comments) says:

    Man, I thought I would be the first to say that you are off the mark DPF.
    One of them is a student. You just wait until you’re finished studying, get a job, save for a deposit and then buy.
    Thats what I’m doing. My wife and I only started our careers last year and have 5 years of saving to go to get like a $100000 deposit to make the mortgage more bearable. Thats life. Shit get over it. (the couple in the paper that is)
    Oh and where does it say “rich pricks” DPF?

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  8. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    My friend is a doctor paying back his student loan and he gets $50k a year. What a cess pit country.

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  9. jafapete (766 comments) says:

    D4J, He’s not your friend, he’s your physician. Now, just keep taking the medicine like he says…

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  10. GJM (58 comments) says:

    What size mortgage can you get (at current rates) on a household income of $75k, and still be able to eat, meet the rates, etc? $75/year is around $1000/week after tax (which is the only figure wage earners need to care about), and any student loan repanymets have to come off this – say around #100/week. The ASB calculator puts $500/week loan repayment at a purchase price of $220k plus whatever savings they may have.You can’t buy a house in Otara for that. The person who suggested Onehunga – seen the house prices there recently – take $300k+ or don’t bother.
    The $500/week repayment works out around the 30% of the before tax income at which mortgage stress is supposed to start. I don’t think this rule of thumb takes into account the overtaxation in NZ, where at $75k, over half your pay is going in direct and indirect taxation. IME, I certainly wouldn’t want to carry a bigger loan than that – you need money to pay the rapacious Auckland Council (Rates increases 10%+ each year) and all the indirect taxes, levies, duties, increased power charges, petrol taxes, etc.
    G

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  11. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    Oh is that right jafacreep, so the fact a doctor a week is leaving this insane country is just an illusion you despicable liar!!

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  12. jafapete (766 comments) says:

    The give away was the bit where you claimed you had a friend. Preposterous.

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  13. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    jafapeted; time for another letter to the editor defending your hideous wife.

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  14. RossK (277 comments) says:

    D4J.

    It is a tough one isn’t it. The average wage in this country is so low that it sometimes seems whiny to complain about low pay when being paid a lot more than the average wage. On the other hand when your brightest and best (and make no mistake the brightest people as a group do medicine) struggle early on compared to others you have to wonder why the system works that way. How does a young doctor feel about that. How does he or she feel about his country that does that to him / her? This is an area that I find particularly interesting. It does seem to me that it is a serious mistake to place young doctors under too much financial pressure. If you had to choose one service that people could pretty much charge whatever they want for then medical services are it. When it comes right down to it how much would any of us pay for lifesaving treatment? Answer. Everything we have or can beg borrow or steal.

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  15. jafapete (766 comments) says:

    # dad4justice Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says: March 24th, 2008 at 11:38 am
    jafapeted; time for another letter to the editor defending your hideous wife.

    ????

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  16. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    good one jafapet you use the internet sledge to undermine my relationship with a doctor friend and you can’t handle the word hideous ? I must have you confused for some one else.

    Edit; Ross K it’s plain ludicrous that doctors have to leave this country for financial reasons, while a political dummy can go from the dole one year then to over $100K in the next year ? It’s really a sad situation.

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  17. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Street’s career path-

    1978- 1986 Secondary School Teacher
    1986 1989 Union Organiser, PPTA
    1989 1990 Industrial Democracy Coordinator
    1990 1999 Senior Lecturer, Management Studies and Industrial Relations, Auckland University
    1999 2005 Employee Relations Portfolio Manager, District Health Boards New Zealand

    For fuck’s sake. Would this ivory tower fuckwit have one iota of an idea concerning commercial reality? When the fuck will NZer’s wake up to the fact that putting these kind of delusional half educated well indoctrinated left wing dipshits in charge of their lives is madness??

    BTW Maryan, one of the reasons houses and so many other things are becoming more and more out of reach is because the country is carrying the massive financial burden of a large sector of its so called workforce who are totally unproductive. That’s you Maryan. You really want to help this country, and its working people, and its struggling families, and its homeowners, GET TO FUCK OFF THEIR FUCKEN BACKS.

    Stop shuffling papers, stop producing your dumbfuck partisan ‘reports’, shut the fuck up with your demented left wing political rhetoric, and resign. Go get a job in the local meat works or as a farm labourer. The country will be so much better off without your delusional ideologically driven contribution to government, and you’ll be doing something real to ease the burden of NZ’s struggling workers and families. ..and take that other lifetime bludging parasite Klark with you, another ivory tower fuckwit who’s done a lot more than most to make houses unaffordable, given she owns so many.

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  18. BlairM (2,286 comments) says:

    I agree with the “Liarbour Lesbo” in this instance.

    I get fucked off about this. NOBODY has the RIGHT to OWN a home. Nobody. Anybody who whines about it should work on their career, start a profitable business, get a decent qualification etc. before they even start to peruse the vast waste of dead trees on offer from the real estate industry.

    Besides, owning your own home with the market as it is at the moment is just D.U.M.B. The interest you pay is higher than what you would pay a landlord in rent. So rent a decent house (one better than you could probably afford to buy), save that extra money and if you’re not clearing credit card debt like I am, use it to buy shares in oil companies I reckon. The rush to own houses will be the financial ruin of a lot of people out there if they are not careful.

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  19. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    [DPF: And that is 10 demerits]

    Unreal ??

    [DPF: Maryan's sexuality has nothing to do with housing affordability]

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  20. Captain Crab (351 comments) says:

    At the moment , most of our houses are for sale below what the replacement cost would be.
    Trimming Resource Consent costs and process would help a lot, as would releasing land in the “green” belt and allowing innovative high rise apartments in the suburbs but the sad fact is that “housing affordibilty” is more to do with income than anything else.
    NZers just dont get enough cash in the hand. Whilst we bleat about 35-45% of income going on the Mortgage, what about the 30-50% which goes on direct and indirect Taxation?
    It is bemusing that we have these labour mandarins lecturing us when they, as part of the ruling elite, enjoy government housing, six figure salaries, free airtravel, ministerial cars, and can afford red designer dresses Ms Street…..
    To put it another way, what the fuck do they know about trying to save and get ahead!

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  21. Mark (497 comments) says:

    I think the problem people find is thier are areas of Auckland people do not want to live due to high crime and gangs, thus forcing them to look at nicer areas.

    Except for most first time house buyers they can’t afford to pay the mortgage in those areas.

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  22. Sushi Goblin (419 comments) says:

    BlairM said “Besides, owning your own home with the market as it is at the moment is just D.U.M.B”

    It is if you are speculating, hoping to offset your high gearing with capital gains.

    But if you have a family, need (or conversely, don’t need) the extra space, or your circumstances change, then buying, selling or even owning a home in a changing market is hardly controversial.

    I would point out that just because the market is easing off, more markedly so in segments like holiday baches, Auckland inner city apartments or in some provincial centres, not everyone is rushing to sell. That’s because not everyone needs or wants to sell.

    Reef fish behaviour might infect the psyche of share traders, because they have liquidity. Share traders, even mum and dad traders, can buy in and out of the market as they please. Most homeowners don’t treat their homes as investments in the same way they do their Contact Energy shares, because homes aren’t particularly liquid (no jokes about leaky homes here please). Often people don’t care about downswings in the property market for their own homes, because they intend to stay there for years, long after the current property cycle has finished. If you aren’t selling, then a 10% downturn in prices doesn’t affect you much.

    Home ownership, setting aside the investment angle, is also something of a spiritual and psychological venture. Maybe that’s more relevant should you have a family or are retired, but probably not so relevant to someone who is in their twenties and just starting their income earning potential.

    Owning your own home has other financial advantages as well, beyond that of capital gain in the long term. You can use your home as collateral for other loans (because its secure), and borrow at a much cheaper rate. If you need to help finance your business, or a car, or similar, why would you pay a finance company 15% or 20% when you can borrow against your home for 10% (floating). In Blair’s case, had he been an existing homeowner, he could have theoretically paid off the money he owed on his credit card from the equity in his property. He would have saved himself 12% in interest (I’m assuming Blair has a credit card from a mainstream bank that is around 22% per annum in charges).

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  23. Southern Raider (1,534 comments) says:

    DPF I think D4J’s comment about Street is relevant.

    Gay couples are more likely to only need a smaller house as they tend not to have children (a large amount anyway), compared to a younger family needing 3 or 4 bedrooms.

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  24. peterquixote (231 comments) says:

    A Capital Gains Tax [introduced gradually] on secondary property would not hurt investors, and would reintroduce a financial Equity in our Country that is long overdue.
    What you have to ask yourself before you pull rank on me is
    why are we the only Country that allows this privilege of Tax Free Income.
    I know what you’re thinking dudes, you say that its not income fool its capital. Its our Capital little place in the wilderness while we go under
    OK dudes heres the answer
    how come like I live forever no work all play no tax.
    Well just sell another house and no tax.
    Brash knew that the way to refinance NZ was through the mechanism of making the rental home business, just like any other business

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  25. peterquixote (231 comments) says:

    A Capital Gains Tax [introduced gradually] on secondary property would not hurt investors.
    Property investment would be just like any other business
    What you have to ask yourself before you pull rank on me is this
    Why are we the only Country that allows this privilege of Tax Free Income.
    and I know what you’re thinking dudes, you say that its not income …
    fool … its capital … Its our Capital little place in the wilderness while we go under
    OK dudes heres the answer
    how come like I live forever no work at all and play … no tax.
    Well just sell another house and no tax.
    Brash knew that the way to refinance NZ was through the mechanism of making the rental home business, just like any other business

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  26. Anthony (766 comments) says:

    Where capital gains are part of the business (and they are usually a vital part of the landlord business) they were always meant to be taxed, but case law has rendered the current tax law next to useless. Great for tax consultants though.

    Landlords are not taxed like any other business. What if you invested in forestry – your loss making expenditure at the start is deductible but when you harvest the forest after years of capital growth the income is all taxable! And even this is considered concessionary. The 4th Labour government made forestry owners carry forward all deductions to be offset only when the forest was harvested, but that requirement was repealed by the last National government.

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  27. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    A heap of my wife’s outlaws came down for Easter. Most of these live in Sth Auckland. Shit these people have a hard time making ends meet, I don’t know how anyone can afford to live in Auckland. House prices around here have stalled and some are even dropping. New Zealand continues below the Bombay hills despite what some would have you believe and there is plenty of work around, the local paper is full job ads. In the end the high house prices in Auckland may be good for the rest of the country as it may force a more even distribution of the population.

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  28. PaulL (5,871 comments) says:

    Two views.

    1. These folks are mad if they think they should be able to walk into a house in a posh suburb on an income that is low by international standards. Sorry, but it takes time to accumulate wealth, and you don’t expect to jump straight in near the top of the food chain. Buy a house in a cheaper suburb (even if you rent it out instead of living in it), then trade up like the rest of us did. Part of the problem here is that people can afford to rent in suburbs they cannot afford to buy in. This will change soon – once capital gains stop subsidising your rent it will be necessary either for rents to go up or for property prices to come down. Either way, it will help people’s expectations to align to their income.

    2. NZ income is low by international standards, and our taxes high by the standards of similar countries (and I mean US, Britain, Australia, not Sweden, Hong Kong or the Philippines). Also, our interest rates are very high by international standards, which goes directly to housing affordability. Our current government has done nothing about this, and frankly seems to have no ideas what to do about it. They should just all resign their posts so that somebody who has a clue can run things.

    One final point. Mortgage stress is a crock of shit dreamed up by the media. Nobody is forced to buy a house, and nobody is forced to buy a house for which the mortgage consumes so much of their income. The question I would have is what drives people to enter into a mortgage that is such a high percentage of their income. Is it because:
    – they can afford it – so the whole stress bit is a crock because they made a choice to do it
    – they can’t bear to live in a less affluent area than their friends
    – they are scared of the people who live in the places they can actually afford – you know, those brown people?
    – they are so clueless they don’t realise they have a choice?
    – Mummy and Daddy are actually underwriting the mortgage for them, but it feels cool to complain in the media about it?
    – somebody convinced them that renting is such a bad thing that they will buy a house irrespective of affordability – because they don’t want to be a renter for ever?

    I personally think that mortgage stress is a sign of misplaced values in our society, not necessarily of some evil government plot.

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  29. mara (719 comments) says:

    This pair needs to get real and realise that they simply cannot afford to buy in an area that matches their self-esteem. My advice…Save money. Buy a “good deal” now and live with a crappy kitchen and bathroom if you can’t afford to upgrade. It won’t kill you. All you need is hot water and sanitation for hell’s sake. Hang a fern up by the califont and fucking light a candle. The best real estate advice remains, buy the worst house in the best street that you can afford. And get a bloody move on. You are obviously not cunning or experienced enough to pin-point the exact time for your killer lunge into the “market.” Nor am I, come to that. But I know a wanker when I see one.

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  30. loftus (16 comments) says:

    Interesting that it is the SST that comes up with an “example” couple that is so easily refuted/dismissed by the minister. Surely there are plenty of other couples/families in similar circumstances that could have been used?

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  31. Sushi Goblin (419 comments) says:

    PaulL misses a few points

    a) he said: “Nobody is forced to buy a house, and nobody is forced to buy a house for which the mortgage consumes so much of their income.”

    But what happens if you enter into a mortgage at 7% per annum which you easily afford, and then government policies, the world economic situation and random acts of God push your interest payments up to 10%? On a $300,000 mortgage, that’s around $9000 per annum.

    b) People are by and large rational, even if it doesn’t look like it to us at first glance. They many reasons you gave regarding why people shouldn’t buy houses are also easily combatted with reasons why they might like to buy a house. These reasons include:
    - surety over a school zone. Buying into a certain neighbourhood could save you a fortune in school fees
    - living closer to where you work, because your public transport options are inadequate
    - the ability to modify a house to suit your needs – you can’t do that with a renter – room alterations are right out, and so is even minor stuff like painting the room, replacing an appliance is a rigmarole that is reliant on a landlord
    - home ownership is an investment in the long term, so naturally people desire to put their money into something that will appreciate over time.

    I readily acknowledge that in the case of people who thought they could afford Fendalton or Herne Bay five years ago are now in for a rude shock that is all about market forces. If they’ve been saving their dollars, they might get a chance soon enough if the market corrects itself, as indicators are now suggesting.

    I also agree that if you can’t afford a home as an investment, then find a new place for your money. We don’t have “affordable share ownership schemes” either, though brokers can offer you plenty of ways to get started in share investing, or if you want the risk, play margin calls etc etc. We don’t shed tears for those who couldn’t afford Michael Hill or Telecom when they were floated on the sharemarket, do we?

    I guess the point is some people are genuinely frustrated by high interest rates, high taxation, high compliance costs and high handed behaviour from central and local government. Eliminate or reduce these barriers and you have an environment where homes become more affordable without distorting the market with interventionist schemes involving the local council or the Ministry for Re-electing the Labour Party. When people cry “homes are too expensive”, they usually aren’t railing against developers or the desire of homeowners to maximise their return. Rather, they are lamenting factors they can’t control in their own personal circumstances.

    After all – when people eventually do buy, they’ll be hitting the knees in prayer every night asking their deity of choice for a property boom to make them more wealthy.

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  32. PaulL (5,871 comments) says:

    Sushi, I think the last of your post rings most true for me. Everyone likes to wail and gnash their teeth about housing affordability for the young, but would you like to hazard a guess how many votes any party would get with a platform of ‘we’ll cause all house prices in NZ to drop by 30%.’ The media like to dress it up as affordability so they can hide from the reality of what they are complaining about.

    I fully agree that interest rates are within the control of the govt (and out of control govt spending pushes them up), that compliance costs and development rules drive up house prices, etc etc. I recall someone here making a very astute observation about capital gains taxes – that we are targeting the symptoms not the problems. The problem is that we have large capital gains for property at all, not that those capital gains distort the market. And the cause of that problem is the development rules and local council policies.

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  33. Southern Raider (1,534 comments) says:

    Side Show Bob I agree. Originally coming from Invercargill and having worked extensively throughout NZ shifting the population would have the best long term value for the country.

    A $20K once allowance with a 2 year bond for families to shift to other cities would be a much more practical and cheaper solution. A province like Invercargill could advertise that they need 20 sparkies and you could apply for one of the sponsored positions.

    Immigrants without strong family ties should have to live for a minimum period in a nominated location. Most would find there is life outside Auckland/Wellington and at least 50% would become settled.

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  34. John Dalley (394 comments) says:

    As probably more than 50% of the South Island lives in Auckland, i would suggest most of them head back there. Housing problem in Auckland solved.

    and
    Why the hell does everyone want to li9ve in Herne Bay, Ponsomby, Etc, Etc. Not too many years ago, the dregs of society lived there, now all the pretty people want to live in crappy old houses, no insulation, no parking and now filled with white middle class tossers.
    If you want affordable housing try Helensville or Pokeno or Pukekohe if you want cheaper housing.

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  35. Craig Ranapia (1,912 comments) says:

    Why the hell does everyone want to li9ve in Herne Bay, Ponsomby, Etc, Etc. Not too many years ago, the dregs of society lived there, now all the pretty people want to live in crappy old houses, no insulation, no parking and now filled with white middle class tossers.

    That’s not a nice way to talk about David Cunliffe, Dalley. And sorry to disappoint you, but you might find a few more while middle class tossers in Helensville and Pokeno nowadays.

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  36. Sushi Goblin (419 comments) says:

    John Dalley said: “Why the hell does everyone want to li9ve in Herne Bay, Ponsomby, Etc, Etc.”

    Easy. The local schools are case studies for how primary and intermediate schools should be run. Herne Bay is close to the CBD and the North Shore, so a nice easy commute for professionals. The homes tend to be of a high standard, and it’s also popular with those who like “character” homes like turn of the century villas.

    Add in the local restaurant and shopping scene, and you’ve got a place that is a great little community. Other great local attractions include the zoo, Motat, and drag queens on Ponsonby Road!

    Maybe it’s not your cup of tea Dalley, but for those who like that sort of thing, then that is the sort of thing they like. :-)

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  37. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    As probably more than 50% of the South Island lives in Auckland, i would suggest most of them head back there. Housing problem in Auckland solved.

    That would be a good idea if you could use grass clippings to service a mortgage.

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  38. slightlyrighty (2,496 comments) says:

    Street misses the point and attacks the person, and not the problem.

    Regardless of what you may think of the particulars of this issue, the fact remains that in parts of the country, such as Auckand, Wellington, and Queenstown, the average NZer cannot afford an average house as the cost of that house has risen at a fantastic rate, well above the ability of an average NZer to pay.

    My wife and I earn over 70,000 and have one child. We have noticed that life is getting harder but we are able to stay afloat, and no more than that. I welcome the housing slump as it will bring a needed dose of reality to a market that has been allowed to run amok for too long by government policy that allows investment property losses to be written off against tax, and capital gains to accrue untaxed at the same time. Is there any other investment so untaxed?

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  39. uk_kiwi (83 comments) says:

    My theory is that we are in the midst of a huge inflationary period in history, due to a massive increase in the money supply to pay for the US’ wars and the fallout from the dot-com bust. Hyperinflation in house prices and commodities is the result.

    Ultimately, prices will fall to what people can afford to pay or wages will rise. A period of deflation would be bad news, but it might be the only way to remove the imbalances in the market.

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  40. PhilBest (5,117 comments) says:

    In the few regions in the world where there is not restrictions on the supply of land for housing (Texas), the ratio of average income to average property values has remained static for 30 years in spite of massive population growth.

    Elephant in room!!!!! Whoop, whoop!!!!! Elephant in room!!!!!!! Whoop, whoop!!!!!!!!

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  41. PhilBest (5,117 comments) says:

    But no, greenfields conservation is a sacred cow. Mere humans can just be made to suffer for the Gaia God.

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  42. vto (1,128 comments) says:

    Many things can be posted on this subject. I choose this brief one…

    Many people seem to think that there has been a massive ridiculous boom which is completely abnormal. Well, come on folks, take a reality check. From 2003 to early 2007 there were an excess number of buyers in the ‘market’ leading to some hefty price rises.

    But what people forget is that during the vast bulk of the 90s and into the 00s there were no or few and small rises and nobody wanted property. If you measure the property price rises from say 1990 to 2008 you will find a perfectly normal (by NZ’s history) rise in property values.

    Both the early 70s property boom and the late 80s boom were genuine excess booms which dwarfed the recent supposed boom.

    Go on everybody, do the measure from 1990 to 2008 and compare it with any period in NZ’s history.

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  43. vto (1,128 comments) says:

    And John Dalley, you refer disparagingly to “while middle class tossers”.

    You are a racist, bigoted and compassionless creep. So typical of today’s ‘left’.

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  44. dad4justice (7,718 comments) says:

    Before a Minister of the Crown can express sympathy they must have a heart.

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  45. uk_kiwi (83 comments) says:

    “Both the early 70s property boom and the late 80s boom were genuine excess booms which dwarfed the recent supposed boom.”

    Not according to the stats- have a look at the linked graph.

    Any asset which has a 100 to 200% appreciation in 5 years, and has a near zero yield, is suspicious in my books. This bubble is built on speculation and cheap foreign money…

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/neuralnetwriter/financial/rentalyield.gif

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  46. vto (1,128 comments) says:

    UK Kiwi that is just one measure. Havent you heard of lies damned lies and statistics. I disagree with your view. Later.

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  47. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    Grrr, Ms Street being pandered to by the Dom and the SST. Who would have guessed it, a couple of red rags talking down those rich capitalist Auckland yuppie bastards.

    And lets be real, who’d want to live in some of Auckland’s ‘affordable’ read: shitbox, outer suburbs. I mean even Helens people don’t have that ignominy, the benefit classes are parachuted into city fringe state house suburbs for life, just like The Salt’s in Mt Albert, aye Helen?

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