Labour polling on what to do re Winston
August 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am by David FarrarI got an e-mail last night from someone who was polled by UMR – Labour’s polling company.
On top of the normal questions asking if people think John Key is slippery, there were at least two questions on how the Prime Minister has handled the Winston Peters funding scandal. They asked if people thought she had been decisive and also if people approve of her handling of Peters on a five point scale from strongly approve to strongly disapprove.
This is pretty significant. You don’t ask questions for no reasons. The results of that polling will obviously influence what Clark does once the confidence vote is passed this week.
Winston may not be amused to find out Helen is polling, effectively to find out whether she should sack him or not.
The results will be interesting. You see NZ First can survive by pissing off 90% of the public and confusing half of the remaining 10%. Major parties can not. When National had NZ First’s Tukugate (which was a completely trivial issue compared to this) scandal, it was National that eventually also got pushed down in the polls as you get suffer guilt by association.
Related posts:
- Labour claims polling not for them
- PM will not rule out push polling
- Helen rules Winston in
- More Labour polling
August 5th, 2008 at 10:30 am
DPF, you should make sure as hell Winnie hears about this
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Push polling by Labour!….who would have thought that?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Once she has his vote on the supply Bill she can dump him, and will if the polls say she should. But Winston knows all this hence his delay in supporting the measure and that may continue. He could demand answers re that, he could go really feral. To get over any constitutional crisis National could agree to abstain on the supply Bill providing she has called the election.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:44 am
So is John Key slippery? Is Helen Clark a really good painter? Is Michael Cullen a serial responder to Nigerian Scam Letters? Did either never get given a train set a a present?
Has Helen Clark read ‘Absolute Power’ , an unofficial autobiography on her by Ian Wishart. Now that really is an illuminating read on someone “SLIPPERY as a bar of soap in the Bath.” Why hasn’t she taken him to Court for all the direct things he has exposed.
Or is David Cunliffe the one really “Running the Show”?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
So the PM’s comment about Winston’s antics that “the court of public opinion will determine that” seems a little hollow when her party is pushing the opinion!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Do you have the actual text of the questions, DPF? It would be interesting to read them.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Slippery Helen cant make her mind up, so she has to ask the Country what to do. Yeah Right. Sounds like a new Tui Billboard doesnt it.
Vote:She hasnt listened to anything else we have tried to tell her, so why would she listen in this case????? Besides, if she does dump him, wouldnt that be a “Flip Flop”from Liarbour??????
August 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Helen is as slippery, as slippery can be!
Monkeys know their own tricks.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Your last paragrpah sums up everything that is wrong with MMP. Sad really, as it was designed to bring in diversity of opinions and make votes for small parties count. Not give a party carte blanche to play silly buggers.
Sack or be sacked. Tantrum time Winston…
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Once again we see serious decisions which should be based on principles and integrity based on the effect such decisions will have on the opinion poll outcomes.
Is there no spine in the Labour-led govt. What a sham of a govt we have.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
burt:
I had the same thought. Then I considered we live in a democracy. Now I’m not so sure anymore. Should our government react on principle? I would say yes, but the Labour led Government was not elected on principle. They elected themselves through retrospective legislation and all numbers of unprincipled actions.
So perhaps asking the public is doing the right thing in some weird way?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
“Push” polls before principles. What a desperate bunch we have running our lives.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Pascal, it was me who got polled and emailed DPF. The ones that focussed on the Peters affair were, to the best of my recollection:
Have you followed the story in the news about Winston Peters receiving donations? 1 very closely through to 5 not at all
Do you approve or disapprove of NZ First’s actions? 1 strongly approve throught to 5 strongly disapprove
And, the important one, because it named her personally: How do you think Helen Clark has handled the Winston Peters affair? 1 strongly approve, 2 approve, 3 no opinion, 4 disapprove, 5 strongly disapprove
It was pretty close to that.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
What is wrong with the standing Government using Push Polls?
People have already made their minds up, and the Economy not only feeling stuffed,
Has now actually been declared stuffed, by the Centre of the Administration.
We’re doomed, all doomed!
Well until the election sees off this current crop of no-hopers!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Where are the defenders of the left??? Push poling is bad they said, Crosby/Textor use this method and they are bad they said. National have hired Crosby/Textor and they will push poll, they said.
WHO is doing the push poling now… oh that’s right Helen and her “honest push polling”. The great decisive leader who knows best for us all now asking us what we think.
PATHETIC the lot of them. Can’t wait for November to say goodbye.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
This isn’t a push poll – Labour wants accurate information assuming DPF’s email correspondent is correct. Push Polls provide no reliable information – that isn’t it’s purpose – its purpose is to persuade rather than gauge public sentiment.
So when Clark says this Winston will be judged by the Court of Public Opinion, she is effectively doing a poll of the jury sitting in judgment on Winston. The only question is whether Clark as a judge will give him a capital sentence, assuming the jury finds him guilty.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Once again we see serious decisions which should be based on principles and integrity based on the effect such decisions will have on the opinion poll outcomes.
Like tailoring your policy to what “Labour Plus” voters tell you in focus groups? C’mon. It’s very interesting, but any party that can afford internal polling does precisely this sort of thing.
And anyone who thinks this is a push poll doesn’t know what a push poll is.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Russell, if indeed there were questions as to whether the recipient of the call thought John Key was “slippery” (and I am only going by way David wrote in his post), then this would clearly come under the definition of “push poll”. That is: “A push poll is a political campaign technique in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under the guise of conducting a poll” (Wikipedia).
[DPF: But that was not the aim of the poll. If they were polling tens of thousands of people, then one could conclude the aim was to “push poll”. But just using an attack line in a poll does not make it a push poll if the poll is to a small random sample.
If the aim is to phone as many people as possible to get across the message that they think Key is slippery, then it is a push poll. But if they are genuinely wanting to find out how effective that attack line is, so they can use it in their press releases, that is not a push poll but testing an attack line.
UMR would incidentally never push poll.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 11:55 am
So asking people if they think that John Key is “slippery”, a term which has been ruled out of order in the House doesn’t constitute push-polling Chris and Russell? Hmmmmm…
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I never said it was a push poll Russell, and I don’t mind a bit that Labour takes the nation’s pulse on things, I expect them to, it’s simply the fact that Clark wants to know whether she should push Winston, or variations on the theme, that interests me.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Parliamentary Question number one today,
1. R DOUG WOOLERTON to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Has he been involved in discussions on electoral systems in the Pacific?
Sounds like we could see some more fireworks.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
I could tell her what to do with Peters…she only needs to ask
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Labour’s only hope of holding power after the election is that they can build a wobbly coalition of Labour, Anderton, Greens, United, the Maori Party, and NZ First.
They’re not going to dump NZ First now, because it would rule out begging them to rejoin Labour in three or four months time.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Chris and Russell. If that is not push polling it is extremely close to it. I suppose a purist (read political junkie) would consider the question ‘do you think John Key is slippery?’ to not be push polling. Maybe you would say the question ‘If you knewt John Key was slippery, would you vote National?’ IS push polling.
Like everything Labour does, it is dirty, underhand and unprincipled.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
>1. R DOUG WOOLERTON to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Has he been involved in discussions on electoral systems in the Pacific?
Are we going to discover that Fiji’s and Tonga’s electoral systems are more transparent and corruption free than the one that Labour and NZ First designed for NZ?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
DPF:”……..When National had NZ First’s Tukugate (which was a completely trivial issue compared to this) scandal, it was National that eventually also got pushed down in the polls as you get suffer guilt by association.”
YOU SAID IT. MSM bias writ large. One trivial issue involving a coalition partner is enough to bring down a “centre-conservative” government made up largely of decent, useful people. But the Heleban, comprised of academics and activists and unionists and teachers, with all sorts of skeletons in their closets, and with completely elastic morals, gets away with near murder over and over again, thanks to their lapdogs in the media. Who is “slippery”?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
DavidP
As Winless said last week “Madam Speaker – New Zealand is an island in the Pacific, so questions relating to the Pacific include New Zealand QED”.
‘Twil be an interesting time at 2 today!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
David, are you going down there to pull faces at the pin striped dwarf during Question Time?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
A few more good questions. One from John Key and a patsy from Charles Chauvel both on the level of borrowing. Labour’s attempts to paint National as reckless will back fire as Nation shows they have increased borrowing themselves. Another question re the EFA from Bill and a good one from Gerry re Cullen and Iti’s hongi. I’ll be in class but have the recorder set. Good times.
2. JOHN KEY to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement yesterday, in relation to Government borrowing, that, “Oh I just think it’s mind-bogglingly stupid to go out and be borrowing in the time when the international markets are in crisis”; if so, why?
3. CHARLES CHAUVEL to the Minister of Finance: What is New Zealand’s national debt and how does it compare with other OECD countries?
4. Hon BILL ENGLISH to the Minister of Justice: Is it Government policy that election advertisements can be paid for with parliamentary funding; if so, why?
8. GERRY BROWNLEE to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: What did his hongi with Tame Iti, at the signing of the Terms of Negotiations with Tūhoe last week, symbolise?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
It is hardly surprising that Helen does not think she owes Winston any loyalty. As I have said earlier when i was a NZF member i mentioned to Winston rumours about Helen’s sexual preference. He repeated the rumour that Peter Davis edited a gay newspaper. If he repeated the rumour to me he probably would have repeated it to others. As he is happy to work with her I would say his motive would be muckraking.
My motive is different with this queer friendly government because it involves a conflict of interest. Innocent people have become infected with HIV because of Labour Party policy. I refer to allowing HIV people to migrate here.
I am getting a little off my main point that is that Winston and Helen show no loyalty to anyone.
I hope someone passes this post onto Helen so she might ask Winston about it. Unfortunately, I did not have a recorder going.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
IMHO pushpolling and other like devices have no place in a real democracy ..They rae unethical and immoral and examples of behaviour associated with regimes that are incompatible with New Zealand society.
These are issues that should be illegal rather then those in the EFA which is no more than a Trojan House for shutting down legitimate debate and discussion and relegates NZ to a situtaion that is less than a democratic state
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
It is hardly surprising that Helen does not think she owes Winston any loyalty. As I have said earlier when i was a NZF member i mentioned to Winston rumours about Helen’s sexual preference. He repeated the rumour that Peter Davis edited a gay newspaper. If he repeated the rumour to me he probably would have repeated it to others. As he is happy to work with her I would say his motive would be muckraking
Thanks Chuck. Now, folks, Chuck has helpfully provided us with just the kind of question that would sit nicely in an actual push poll. If you called 10,000 people and said “What would you think if you heard that Helen Clark’s husband edited a gay newspaper?” that would be a push poll.
My motive is different with this queer friendly government because it involves a conflict of interest. Innocent people have become infected with HIV because of Labour Party policy. I refer to allowing HIV people to migrate here.
Perhaps you could consider moving to one of the dozen or so countries in the world that actually do ban travel and immigration by HIV-positive people. I hear the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Libya and Russia are nice at this time of year.
I am getting a little off my main point that is that Winston and Helen show no loyalty to anyone.
But isn’t your main point always that the gays are coming to get us?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Chuck wants Gays to come and get him…..over and over again,with no lube….oh baby!
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Russell, are trying to expect us all to believe that there are only a dozen countries in the world that do not allow HIV+ people to immigrate? I have not checked but I am sure you are wrong. Would you care to put some money on it. If I can find over a dozen countries that do not allow HIV+ people to immigrate you lose. I do not metion travel. Do you want a bet?
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Strange that immigration checks for TB. I mean how many people have died from TB in New Zealand in the last 30 years compared to Aids.
Who would be footing the medical bills for these new diseased migrants? Not the taxpayer per chance? Who knew that New Zealand was such an economic miracle that it was the envy of the entire world.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Here’s a thought for when the Green’s single-handedly kill off both the dairy industry and international tourism to New Zealand in their pursuit worshiping Gaia and the AGW swindle.
New Zealand could become a modern day leper colony. The rest of the world can pay New Zealand to dump their sick in the country. These new “hero” citizens can then spend the rest of their days taking in the fresh air and sun. I’m sure it would be beneficial for all parties concerned as after all “New Zealand is the best country in the world”.
Vote:August 5th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Back on topic, if the government was to collapse tomorrow what timeframe does Hels have to call an election in? Would 8 November 2008 still be a valid date or does the election then have to be held within six weeks or some other date?
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Bloody hell, Chuck, even George Bush — that well known friend of teh queerz — has signed a bill (passed with overwhelming and bipartisan majorities in both House and Senate) repealing the congressional ban on HIV-positive non-citizens entering the United States. (U.S. immigration law prohibits foreigners with “any communicable disease of public health significance” from entering the U.S., but only HIV was named explicitly in the statute. For all other illnesses, the Secretary of Health and Human Services determines which ones truly pose a risk to public health.)
Well, OECD, let’s ask a pesky fact based question: Which of the following is highly infectious, can be spread by coughing, and accrding to the World Health Organization (WHO), nearly 2 billion people—one third of the world’s population—have been exposed to the pathogen? Hint – it’s not HIV. And I don’t feel terribly upset that I’m living in a country where the incidence of TB is low.
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Both are fatal diseases. Let be safe rather than PC.
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Russell, are you and Islamophobe? Why do you denigrate the nation states of the Gulf?
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 6:45 am
OECD: Nice to hear that reality is now ‘political correctness’ gone mad.
Vote:August 6th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Craig, the point I was making was that the Labour Party policies relating to HIV put the public at risk and public knew the number of homosexual and bi sexual they might not vote for the party.
I maintain this is a conflict of interest. Peter Davis’s book advocated allowing HIV+ people to immigrate. Shortly after coming into power Labour changed the law.
BTW – I have only referred to immigrants not visitors.
If there was a powerful group within National that successfully lobbied to change the law in relation to say abortion the public has a right to know the MPs religion and decide for themselves if there is a conflict of interest.
I get heartily sick of liberals – left and right – whose main response to anyone who questions matter homosexual is to label them homophobic. I guess that is better than mindless retards like James.
Vote:August 7th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Reminds me of that Brass Eye sketch about “Good” Aids and “Bad” Aids. “Good” Aids being derived from bad blood transfusions and “Bad” Aids being derived from, well…
Vote: