More on Yang Liu
October 19th, 2008 at 10:25 am by David FarrarThe HoS has more details on Yang Liu:
- donated $5,000 to Cabinet minister Chris Carter’s Te Atatu electorate
- donated $5,000 to National
- Had letters of support from Dover Samuels and Pansy Wong. Wong says she never knew of the issues around his past, while Samuels does (but not sure when) and says they are politically motivated from China
- His citizenship application took three years to approve as officials were against it, but SHane Jones granted it, over-riding his officials
- Liu was wanted in China for alleged embezzlement
- Charged in Australia with operating bank accounts under a false name and in November 2006, the Supreme Court of New South Wales ordered Liu to forfeit more than $3.3 million
Liu’s restaurant has hosted fundraisers for Asian candidates from Labour, National and ACT. It seems clear that he built up connections across the political spectrum. The two key issues are:
- Did any MP write a letter of support knowing about the false passports, the court orders in Australia?
- Why did Shane Jones grant him citizenship?
Related posts:
- The Yang Liu case
- The Liu trial
- Yang Liu’s private VIP citizenship ceremony in Parliament
- Liu arrested
October 19th, 2008 at 10:39 am
In my experience of dealing with the DOI, the minister normally follows the advice of his staff when making a decision to grant or deny an application for something like citizenship.
Vote:Something special must have happened for the minister to override that policy and make the grant.
Oh and by the way is the Electoral Commission looking into Mike Williams comment that cash raised at fund raisers such as held by Liu is agregated so donors aren’t idenitifed?
October 19th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Meanwhile the politically motivated attacks on the Fulan Gong are fine because China has made “great progress”?
Which way are they going to slice this cake and eat it too?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 11:40 am
The 2 questions are the ones that need responses.
Vote:If the case against Liu is proven, maybe he should go, but is he really a bad-arse??
If the case againsy any minister is found to be true and proven, they should be prosecuted.
All or anyone found guilty of corruption should be jailed.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Labour not only wrote letters of support knowing the false passports, but granted citzenship knowing it.
MSM quote Samuels: “Outgoing Labour MP Dover Samuels, who supported the man’s citizenship, says Liu was fostered out as a child and this had led to confusion over his identity”.
Vote:Rick Barker, also a personal friend of Liu stood aside and let Shane Jones make the decision
October 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I don’t think Pansy Wong or Dover Samuels have done anything worng – writing a letter of support for an application for citizenship is part of their duties as MPs. I’m sure many MPs have been approached by people having problems with citizenship applications and help, and many of them have bent the truth to make it look like officials are being unreasonable.
Shane Jones is another matter – he had the full report from the DOI, and would have definately been aware of the reasons why they did not want to approve the citizenship. If Jones wasn’t sure about what to do, he should have checked with O’Connor, or asked for more information from his officials. Signing off a citizenship on the basis that another MP supports it when there are other alarm bells ringing is never going to turn out well.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
DPF
Can’t help you with your number 1 question but I’ll have a go at 2.
“Why did Shane Jones grant him citizenship?”
Because Owen Glenn turned Labour down, this man was to be the new Glenn.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
so now it comes out this guy is involved over the spectrum yet its still all labour’s fault huh?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
From my understanding this is some of the history;
A 25 March 2008 DIA letter to Liu asks Liu to please answer the following questions in writing;
1. How many identities do you have or have you used?
2. Why are you using multiple identities?
3. Which of these identities are false?
4. What is your true name?
5. What is your correct date of birth?
6. Is your birth certificate a true record of your birth? If no, why?
7. If 20 October 1972 was not your correct date of birth, why did you declare on your application form that you were born on 20 October 1972? Why are you using a Chinese passport that shows your date of birth as 20 October 1972?
8. If 15 June 1969 was not your correct date of birth, why are you using a Chinese passport that shows your date of birth as 15 June 1969? Or why have you used a Chinese passport that shows your date of birth as 15 June 1969?
9. How did you obtain this passport? What documents were used to obtain this passport (the Chinese passport authorities would have sighted documentation with this date of birth before issuing a passport to you)?
10. What happened to these [other] passports: 144944669; 143080886; 140275129?
11. What dates of birth and names were used in obtaining these passports?
12. Are all the documents you have provided to us in support of your application genuine in every respect? If no, why?
13. Were your travel documents, visas and permits
all obtained legally using genuine documents? If no, why?
14. What dates of birth have you used in your dealings with other government departments and non-government agencies in New Zealand and overseas (for example, banks, Inland Revenue Department, WINZ and LTSA)? Please provide documentary evidence.
15. What names have you used [with the entities
in 14]?
16. How many identities have you used to enter (or depart from) United States of America? If more than one, why?
17. How many identities have you used to enter (or depart from) Australia? If more than one, why?
18. How many identities have you used to enter (or depart from) New Zealand? If more than one, why?
19. How many offshore registered companies do you currently own? If any, where?
20. How many offshore registered companies have you owned? If any, where?
The letter reveals knowledge of at least two international criminal investigations into Yang Liu, or whoever he really is, and further asks:
“Apart from America and Australia, have you visited
any other country in the last five years? If yes, why were they omitted from your application form?”
The letter concludes; it’s a criminal offence under s27 of the Citizenship Act to “knowingly or recklessly provide a false statement or submit false/forged documents in support of your citizenship application.”
These are the ‘personal circumstances’, including; travelled and conducted business under multiple identities, using multiple passports, having A$3.3 million seized in Australia, an outstanding warrant by Chinese authorities for alleged serious fraud together with an Interpol ‘Red Alert’ against his name that Rick Barker knew of when writing back to Dover Samuels saying: “I will take his personal circumstances and your letter of support into consideration.” Barker then delegated the decision to Shane Jones
Mr Liu applied for citizenship in May 2005 and it was approved on August 6, 2008 by Shane Jones and Liu swore the oath of allegiance only 5 days later on August 11.
The explanation from Jones and Barker should be really interesting?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
somewhatthoughtful some what stupidly asks;
“so now it comes out this guy is involved over the spectrum yet its still all labour’s fault huh?”
Well unless a National party minister approved him citisenship then – yes it was Labour’s fault.
Sorry, other parties also taking donations from this guy is not undermining the fact Labour had donations from him and approved his application is such unusual circumstances. This is not kindergarten where one kid screams ‘the other kids painted the window too’.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
yes sure burt, but by accepting donations surely that is tacit approval of the guy so why would there be reason to deny him if the information about him received by whoever looked after this looked good? I’m not trying to defend labour per se – if they did in fact do this when he knew that the guy was bad news, I don’t condone that at all. It just seems quite fishy that he’s in bed with everybody.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“It just seems quite fishy that he’s in bed with everybody.”
He gave money to “everybody” but only Labour knew about his past – (and then gave him citizenship)
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
If National/Key keep focusing on policy adjusted to the financial meltdown & don’t make a big thing of this I reckon they’ll catch a lot of votes. People are sick of conspiracy/drama politics. Yeah there’s something fishy here. Jones says he was persauded by a QC’s legal submission. Let’s see it. Answer the questions posted by Andrew. But dont let it all detract from the only issue in this election: Whose best to lead us through coming financial depression?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
morestupidthanwethought, can you not READ??? My god, the other parties weren’t privvy to any of the details regarding his application! FFS, they just treated them man like they would any other citizen that had been APPROVED Citizenship by a Govt official. The fact that given repeated concerns by DIA staff that he not be approved, they were overridden by Rick Barker who was advised to approve the application by SHANE SHONES. He then given possibly hundreds of thousands at Labour fundraising events (thanks for my PASSPORT), and throws a few thousand to unsuspecting other parties.
There is no possible way of twisting this to implicate anyone other than the LABOUR PARTY in this criminal affair!
Now please get someone to give you a hard smack on the back of your head and open BOTH eyes…
Coolas…remember, it’s all about TRUST.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
somewhatthoughtful
In bed with everyone… That is a pathetic attempt to divert the blame from Labour. The guy donated to multiple parties – so what. $5,000 to him is probably like the $2 to me that I throw at blanket man as I walk past him.
Labour MP’s approved his application against the advice of immigration officials and knowing that the guy had been deported from Aussie after having assets seized..
If on my way walking to the beehive to bribe a politician I threw a $2 coin at blanket-man would you say he was involved in the bribery as well ?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“but by accepting donations surely that is tacit approval of the guy”
No. If the Red Cross accepts donations from me, does that mean that approve or even know anything about me?
Parties accept literally thousands of donations every year, especially in election time, and it would be impossible to check the backgrounds of every single person who donates money.
The issue here is that Shane Jones and Rick Barker approved his application, despite his officials saying that he should not, and despite KNOWING there were issues with the guy.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I agree with somewhatthoughtful
Two days ago this story was about corruption and evidence of a fatal flaw on the part of Labour and it was going to bring the Government down. It turns out that National has received just as much financial support as Labour and yet instead of doing the decent thing and acknowledging you are wrong the wingnuts go off and still try to say it is evidence of corruption on one side only.
A really quick fix would be to bring in state funding of political parties. That way these “controversies” and “scandals” will not occur.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
mickysavage
Of course you agree with somewhatthoughtful. You both have no limit to how low you will lower your integrity to support the corruption of the Labour party. There is no deed to they could do that would shake you from your support. It’s people like you who are the lowest of the low – if this story was about a National govt and a National party MP it would all about special favours for big business backers… But no – you don’t actually care what went on – all you care about is that Labour smell like roses when actually they are donkey deep in this shit.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Shane Jones or Rick Barker should state whether all or any of the 20 questions raised were answered before they agreed to give him citizenship. How many other dodgy approvals have been given by Jones standing in for Barker… After the O’Connor/ Taito partnership and now the Barker/Jones partnership it would seem that it is in-appropriate to allow a Politician right of veto. If one is needed it should perhaps be delegated to one of the under-employed overpaid Supreme Court Judges.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
somewhatthoughtful and mickeysavage are simply demonstrating Labour’s well practiced art of deflection.
Barker and Jones have abused their position and admitted a person into citizenship knowing of his shady background.
The question is why? Corruption is a possibility.
The question is not who else did Lui donate money to, which is merely a weak attempt to divert the discussion from the main issue.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
somewhatthoughtful or mickeysavage
Can either of you answer this question?
“If on my way walking to the beehive to bribe a politician I threw a $2 coin at blanket-man would you say he was involved in the bribery as well ?”
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
A really quick fix would be to bring in state funding of political parties. That way these “controversies” and “scandals” will not occur.
da da da. the real objective no?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Mark Lloyd
A real quick way to stop this happening would have been for all MP’s that broke the law in the 2005 election spending debacle to have stood in court facing charges. Instead we retrospectively validated them further reinforcing that they are above the law and can do what the f##k they like without accountability.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
“Two days ago this story was about corruption and evidence of a fatal flaw on the part of Labour”
It still is.
The issue here is not the donations, the issue of real corruption is that, and clearly we have to repeat loudly for the Labour dimwits here, THAT RICK BARKER AND SHANE JONES APPROVED HIS APPLICATION AGAINST THEIR OWN OFFICIALS ADVICE AND WARNING.
Public funding of parties would not have prevented that and has nothing to with the issue.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
This man wanted by Chinese authorities? This man was involved in fraud proceedings in Australian Supreme Court? Have I got that right. And, the Liarbour Lickspittles filth that taint our good name let this piece of shit into the country. FFS !
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Burt
“If on my way walking to the beehive to bribe a politician I threw a $2 coin at blanket-man would you say he was involved in the bribery as well ?”
It was $5,000. Are you calling John Key and Pansy Wong blanket men?
Do you always form such strong opinions without finding out the background. All that can be said at this stage is that Jones had letters of support in front of him from both Wong and Samuels and chose to give the guy, who already had residence, citizenship. Liu could have stayed a resident all of his life and still enjoyed the same rights that he has today, including the right to vote.
The problem for the right is that this story was overcooked from the start. It started off as evidence of Labour corruption, National were found to be in the same position and it is now dwindling fast. I bet by Tuesday it will have vanished.
What I want to know is what further share trading Key has engaged in while being an MP and what insider information he used. Now there is a real scandal for you.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
“I bet by Tuesday it will have vanished.”
If it is whitewashed by Tuesday then Batman will fly – so look to the sky MickySillySausage.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
The case still is that this guy was granted residency when there were damned good reasons that he shouldn’t have been.
There are only three possibilities here:
1. Jones and Barker are retarded.
2. Jones and Barker are corrupt.
3. Jones and Barker are both retarded and corrupt.
I go for number 3.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I want to know how many other peoples paintings that Helen Clark has leant her name to in order to raise money or her profile?
I want to know how many times she has tole her chauffeur to speed?
Etc Etc.
John Key bought and sold some shares wooo hooo!
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
mickysavage
That was not answering the question. Here is a clue – try YES or NO. So I’m still waiting for the answer on that question.
I have read the full article from Wishart – have you ? (try Yes or NO )
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Interesting to see over 300 responses to the “Citizenship Scandal?” thread from October 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm, with it’s 7 reasons why this MUST SURELY be more Labour corruption.
Now, once a more balanced view of the thing emerges making it clearly less black & white than merely “corrupt Labour this, corrupt Labour that,” only 29 of you are interested.
Smithers, release the hounds!
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
Vote:“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
“Woof Woof Woof Woof Woof!”
October 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
micky seems to think that dodgy citizenship applications against official advice and with at least some knowledge that this guy was dubious are ok.
Typical Labourite.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Burt
As reading the full article would result in my financially supporting Wishart and as I do not think that his stories are based in reality or the paper they are printed on useful for anything except kitty litter
NO.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
It still is perfectly black and white.
Shane Jones and Rick Barker are quite likely to be guilty of at least gross incompetence, and possibly serious corruption. And this only a week after SJ’s shower head debacle!
The clock is ticking brothers and sisters!
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
The annoying thing is that it’s at times like this you can actually see merit in the Green’s policy of limiting the size of Kiwi families
Though I suggest that we focus on the parents, rather than the children.
Hopefully the Greens can be encourageed to set an example and top themselves first!
My question for the day is; are woefullystupid and mickysorearse BLANKET-MEN??? Nicky needs to investigate this pronto!
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Hey micky,
I can e-mail you a copy for free if you like.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I’d say that a lot more than $5000 was donated to Labour.
First, to get the donation details you have to deal with that man who is an “unmitigated falsifier of veracity”, and second, you don’t get a minister to intervene for $5000 – not even a retarded Labour minster. The Greens pick up ten times more than that for just being their usual insane selves.
A few more days and the “ah yes here it is…” moment will come out.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Look at these lefty nutbars RRM barking mad and silly micky is all hung up on kittens.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“As reading the full article would result in my financially supporting Wishart and as I do not think that his stories are based in reality or the paper they are printed on useful for anything except kitty litter
NO.”
So your ignorant of the whole picture and all the evidence, but still feel free to comment and claim that there is nothing to see here?
Interesting….
Is your mouth firmly connected to Helen’s but? “YES MISTRESS! NO MISTRESS! WHATEVER YOU TELL ME THINK MISTRESS!
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
The guy must almost be the head of the triads if the Standard say Liu “appears to be a slightly dodgy businessman”
(remember these are the wankers who said Winston was “just a little forgetful”)
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Lee
For many years I have wasted time reading Wishart’s stuff. I have even directly or indirectly been involved in a few of his stories. He is like Hooton, he takes the worst possible view of an otherwise innocent incident, cakes it in cr*p, gives it a really good spin and then holds it up as if it is a story. He does the discipline of journalism a disservice. I take nothing that he says at face value.
I suspect that all of us are ignorant of the reality and that is why this article and the attendant comments are so silly.
I note the following:
1. Both parties received donations
2. Liu had residence already
3. He had lived in NZ for a significant period of time and had a local business and two kiwi kids
4. Wong and Samuels both wrote letters in support
5. At human level his request had merit
6. Confusion about asian birth dates and Chinese dissidents having more than one passport is not unusual
7. Barker apparently had met Liu and passed the matter on to Jones who had not.
If there was corruption then as a minimum Barker would have kept the application to consider it himself. Passing it on meant that he was trying to be more than careful that the highest standards were being met. Jones did not know Liu and he made a call. He exercised what is called a discretion. If you want to get rid of Ministerial discretion then get rid of Ministers and MPs.
So where is the evidence of corruption? As an absolute minimum you would have to show that Jones either knew about the donation or that the donation was paid with the intention that it would ensure that citizenship was granted.
Like I said before let us remove the possibility of any donation resulting in a political favour. It is called state funding of political parties.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
“only 29 of you are interested.”
including you dipshit!
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Tknorris:
I see you were banned from The Standard for *gasp* asking questions about Wishart’s investigation (at that time The Standard bloggers seemed to be avoiding the story) – courtesy of Lynn Prentice.
And I also see Steve “Key Derangement Syndrome” Pierson still managed to turn the story into an anti-Key tirade (“So, it’s nice to see Wishart has made a fool of himself again, and accidentally turned what was meant to be this great scandal on Labour into an embarrassment for Key.“. Well, there’s a surprise!
So, if this story has no legs, why are Labour supporters trying desperately to shut it down?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
MSavage: “A really quick fix would be to bring in state funding of political parties. That way these ‘controversies’ and ‘scandals’ will not occur.”
Please go and raise your own money, Mickey – that’s if you can find enough people to support your philosophies.
Controversies and scandels over political funding are not inevitable. What is inevitable is that, if (even more) state funding of political parties is mandated, then (even more of) my taxes will be used to prop up the deceit and corruption that we have learned to expect from the Labour and NZ First hierarchies.
(I don’t use the term “the Labour and NZ First PARTIES”, because I have no doubt that overwhelmingly their general members are honest, decent New Zealanders. But those in control of Labour’s and NZ First’s funding rorts, electoral strategy and ramming through disgraceful legislation like the EFA have every reason to be reviled.)
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Much as it chokes me to say so, I’m in (very) partial agreement with mickysavage when s/he says:
The business maxim that you under promise and over deliver also applies to “gotcha” journalism. If this scandal had been handed to Winston (in the days when the PM didn’t hve a vice-like grip on his baubles) he’d have carefully released it in stages, pausing at each stage to get the Minister(s) involved to make denials – an easy game to play when they don’t know how much you know. Then, only when they were wound up in obfuscation and excuses and “errors of fact”, would he let the lot go.
Much like the smarter members of the MSM handled Winston and his donations, actually… allow your quarry to dig it’s own hole, then all you have to do is kick the dirt in on top of it.
But instead Wishart over-hypes this as “the biggest scandal ever” to an electorate that’s come to expect corruption as almost a default position from those who govern us, and it turns out it’s not. A scandal, yes. The biggest ever, no.
That’s a tactical error that allows enablers like mickeysavage to hold the issue up to Wishart’s own standard, say it falls short, and suggest the public moves on. Wishart does good work as an investigator, but I do wish he’d stop hyping every story as heralding Armageddon – though I guess he thinks that moves subscriptions.
It’s to be hoped that the more level-headed members of the MSM who proved their worth during the Winston scandal will pick this up and explain it in calmer terms so people get an understanding of what’s gone on because it’s now turning into a scandal soup and the public aren’t likely to want to try and guess which parts are poisonous.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Mickey Savage
Change your blogging name, Comrade.
Vote:Using that name with the crap you promote is an insult to a very fine man, even though he was Labour. When Mickey Savage was PM of NZ, being a member of the Labour party meant something. You and your Labour dough wackers are so far off base in today’s world with your social engineering, fdinancial mismanagement,corrupt practices and lies to an unsuspecting public you must have had a frontal lobotomy.
The Labour MPs that gave Liu citizenship KNEW of his previous truth distortions that the DIA had documented, and given to Barker, and therefore Jones.
WAKE UP.
October 19th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Don, bullshit. Michael Savage was the true ancestor of Helen Clark and her cronies. He stole from the working man and locked up those who disagreed with him.
What I want to know is why was Immigration giving Liu citizenship when it is the responsibility of the Department of Internal Affairs to consider citizenship matters? Somethign VERY dodgy going on here.
For a Minister to make a decision against what their officials advise them is utterly indefensible. Luckily when National are in government National Ministers will never act against the advice of their officials.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
mickysavage
You asked me….
To which I asked you if you had read the entire article from Wishart and you said;
You are a cot case mickysavage.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
There is more to this whole affair than meets the eye.
The motive is hard to understand.
Why would you go against such determined caution?
$5000 is is chicken feed, and the each way bet was political.
My guess is that Labour have had an awful lot more in ‘Aggregated Donations’
Ian Wishart would have been sued or arrested for his ‘Heresy’ had it been speculative or unfactual.
And yet the odious Nicky, is held as being a prophet.
They are in trauma, and damage limitation.
Thank God we gad our Kids before the rules start to become applied.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Don the Kiwi
Got any proof that Jones knew about Liu’s background?
Pushmepullyou
Your understanding of history and the labour party matches your understanding of the duties of Immigration and Internal Affairs. For your edification Immigration lets them in and gives them residence, Internal Affairs gives them citizenship when they apply to be kiwis. And you advocate public servants to take over from ministers. Is that really what you wish for?
Burt
I am not letting Wishart define the article. I want some actual proof. Do you have any?
Glutaemus
I see that Labour is now guilty of receiving multi million dollar bribes from Mr Liu. Where is your proof? Wishart is a very good example of the fact that all kiwis retain the right to free speech, even if what they say is off the planet. Name me one person that members of this government has sued for defamation despite all of the crap that has been said about them.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Micky Savage: “Got any proof that Jones knew about Liu’s background?”
Only what is on the record that Internal Affairs told the minister eg: Up to five passports with different dates of birth etc, confiscation of money in Auz due to opening up bank accounts in false names etc. All documented. Micky, you need to read Ian Wishart’s article. As I said, I am happy to e-mail you a copy for free.
Micky Savage: “Name me one person that members of this government has sued for defamation despite all of the crap that has been said about them.”
Obviously, they haven’t sued anyone because most of what has been said/written has been true. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they sue?
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
mickysavage
I suggest you read the article by Wishart before you continue defending people for doing things when you don’t know the full extent and context of the allegations. You are making a fool of yourself defending something when you don’t know what it is – but I guess that’s the way with partisan people. The details are irrelevant, all that matters is that your party is only as guilty as other parties then all is OK – move on.
Vote:October 19th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
This is the way it should have been handled. Especially after Ms Wong’s representations on behalf of the slope.
Dear Marigold Wong,
Thank you for your representations on behalf of (insert name of slope).
I regret that our Department is unable to help you. We have written to (insert name of slope) and sent him a detailed list of questions. Upon a full and frank reply to ALL of our questions we will give consideration to his citizenship application. Pursuant to the Privacy Act we are unable to provide you with a list of our questions but we suggest that you enquire with your constituent about the contents of our letter of 19th October.
I remain, your most obedient servant,
B.U. Eurocrat.
The twenty questions requiring proper answers would be those set out by Mr Patrick Starr at 12.51 p.m. today.
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Mickey, as I said, Internal Affairs has the responsibility for Citizenship. The controversy is Liu’s citizenship, not his residency. And yet the issue is being considered by Immigration, not Internal Affairs. Hence ridiculous.
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Rex Widerstrom (1436) Vote: Add rating 12 Subtract rating2 Says:
October 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
“Much as it chokes me to say so, I’m in (very) partial agreement with mickysavage when s/he says:
“The problem for the right is that this story was overcooked from the start……….”
Rex, you are letting your feelings about “Christian fundamentalists” get in the way of your judgement again.
Alex Masterley, in the first comment on this thread, raises the point made by Wishart in the TGIF article, about Labour’s “cash in the hat” fundraising evening methods, but from then on it is completely ignored.
Rex, let me ask you this (and I made this point way back on Saturday). If the NATS had passed a whole lot of laws about funding of political parties designed to shut out LABOUR’s traditional sources, and had engaged in endless rhetoric about toxic supporters of LABOUR “stealing elections” with “bags of cash” and “money pouring into coffers”; and had then found THEMSELVES hamstrung by their own legislation; and had proceeded to hold “fundraising evenings” where anonymous cash in wads was deposited in a hat, totalling well into SIX FIGURES on some evenings; and imagine if some reporter for the DomPost or TV1 had spotted someone who looked like a member of a christian fundamentalist sect at that fundraising evening;
WOULD YOU SERIOUSLY TRY TO KID ME NOW, THAT THAT WOULD NOT GUARANTEE AN ELECTION LOSS FOR NATIONAL? That it would not be all over the front pages and the airwaves wall-to-wall from now until the election?
BAH.
Rex, you are the epitome of all the the reasons why the NZ “centre right” is an emasculated force when it comes to presenting any sort of obstacle to the socialist takeover of our country.
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 10:47 am
http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/7/4/17/n1681570.htm
an anti-ccp website, the news is about Liu provided a $50k award for Falun gong groups. it mentioned Liu was born in 1971, beaten by public security bureau when he was 13, made his first fortune in stocks. He came to NZ in 2001, and somehow “by chances” grabbed 40% quota of crab fishing in NZ.
http://www.peacehall.com/forum/200807/gmlt/12126.shtml
a letter from a Falun gong follower in NZ. she mentioned “some guy here named Yang Liu” provided award for their group. The guy “bluffs” and has “complicated background”. “he asks the falun gong followers to sign petitions for his citizenship application. “NZ government does not approve it because of his pro-falun gong stance”, and “$10 for anyone signs the petition” etc.
http://www.rxhj.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=86204
a post on how Yonglin Chen, a deserter from Chinese embassy in OZ, introduced Liu to Falun gong and gave him the idea of using Falun gong to claim Chinese government is oppressing him.
keep in mind those articles are from internet and could not be confirmed (by whom?). there aren’t info on “Yang Liu” but it looks the guy indeed has “complicated background”.
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 10:51 am
there are not “much” info on …
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 10:59 am
It was disappointing to hear Susan Wood allow the PM to monster her this morning on ZB over this issue. Clark turned the entire thing into Lius donation to the Nats, Sadly it went unchallenged.
Concerning her letter of support I see Pansy Wong has stated; “Because he had already been here for a number of years, I assumed relevant checks had been made by Government officials.”
Vote:Seems a reasonable enough explanation
October 20th, 2008 at 11:03 am
“It was disappointing to hear Susan Wood allow the PM to monster her this morning on ZB”
Susan Wood is just another piece of liberal media communist shit working to destroy our liberty. She didn’t allow Don Brash to “monster” her.
Vote:October 20th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
mickysavage (97) Vote: 0 12 Says:
October 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I recall a couple resident in the Nelson area having lived in NZ for 9 years with a Kiwi born child running a business commiting no crimes in NZ and having the support of the local community being deported for failing to declare a cannabis conviction in Germany 10+ years previous. Now we have the standard, so its fuck of Zouhi and Fuck off Liu and I would like ” go to jail Labour Minister—— insert names” do not pass go and do not collect your parliamentary pension.
Vote: