Senator McCain
Later today I expect McCain to be beaten by Obama in the Presidential election. I thought it would be worthwhile to reflect on what may have been.
If McCain had been elected, he would have been one of the most independent Presidents in history. His legislative history as a Senator speaks for itself. His independence from some of the religious lobby groups would be especially useful – abortion and civil unions should not be the number one issue for a country.
America would have had its most ardent pro free trade President in history – McCain supportes free trade agreements with every country, except those they have security issues with.
On fiscal issues, Bush has left a disaster of a deficit, and McCain would probably have been pretty effective in reducing the deficit. Bush in fact has massively expanded the federal budget.
On Iraq, he was the main proponent of the surge strategy, that basically suceeded. The challenge would have been to then reduce numbers in Iraq over time so that the Iraqi Government can govern without the need of foreign troops. A McCain presidency would be given more time by am impatient public to withdraw. Obama may find it very difficult to reconcile the expectations of his supporters and the obligations to the Iraqi Government not to pull out too quickly.
It would be fascinating to know what would have happened if McCain had won against Bush in 2000 and then been elected againgst Gore. I suspect he would have been a far more sucessful President than Bush.
But his presidency will be the realm of “what if” writers as 2008 is not his year. It is a credit to McCain that he is still so close to Obama in the polls, when you consider only 10% of Americans say the country is heading in the right direction and 88% say the wrong direction. The candidate for the party of the incumbent should be miles behind. He won’t lose by miles but I don’t think it will be close either.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
“I suspect he would have been a far more sucessful President than Bush”
Some say the same of Mickey Mouse.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am
“If McCain had been elected, he would have been one of the most independent Presidents in history. His legislative history as a Senator speaks for itself”
While this may once have been true, McCain’s performance in the Senate over the last 2-3 years has been nothing short of revoltingly partisan…
November 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
McCain can still do it.
I sense an upset in the making.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:19 am
The world will now have to deal with the realities of an Obama presidency. Will the rest of the world stop acting like an angry teenager – bridling at parental control but unwilling to move out of home? With Obama there’ll be no more excuses for Europe to drag its feet on commitment in such places as Afghanistan.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:20 am
This election is undoubtedly going to be exceptionally divisive in the US, with emotions running very high for and against both candidates. It will be a real test of their large and cumbersome democracy to see how well they handle the outcome. It could be a chaotic few days, with little room in the news for our own election trivia any more.
With the reported high turnout you are probably right about the likely result, but its a complicated vote to predict, and could be closer than the polls indicated.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am
To be honest, I still can’t imagine American’s being prepared to vote for a black man once they get into the privacy of the voting booth.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
PowerLine have a more personal tribute involving his Democrat political mentor: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/11/021978.php
November 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Someone should have told Hels and the Labour party that!
After nine years of misguided priorities all New Zealand has to show for Hels guidance is a country in deep recession.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Come on David, McCain ranting that the USA needed to confront Russia in Georgia, how utterly mad would that be.
McCain arguing that you do not talk to those you have issues with, suggesting
that military force should be the first not the last option.
He is seventy two years old, do you believe that Palin is ready to have her pinkys on the button right now ?
A woman who could not even explain what the dubya doctine was.
It will be interesting to see how many non religious types stay with the Republicans if they continue to push Palin forward.
Or do all Republican types believe in the rapture etc ?
November 5th, 2008 at 9:30 am
History will be much kinder to Bush than the current meda hacks. Mark my words people!
why does Obama want a civilian security forcewith the samefunding as the US army? is he planning on becoming dictator for life?
the minute Obama suggests we all have a special “mark” im gonna laugh my ass off.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Its afternoon on Tuesday November 4th. Yesterday I posted this on another Kiwiblog thread. THis is my prediction for the Presidential Elections today.
Latest battleground state polls have the candidates either tied or within the margin of error. Assuming the usual reliable red and blue states go to McCain and Obama respectively – with regards to the battleground states, I believe McCain will win PA, OH, FL, NH and VA (and maybe CO and NV) and Obama will likely win IA, NM, MI and MN (and maybe CO &NV) because of the following effects that the polls and pundits are not really focusing on:
1. The Polling effect: Something unprecedented is happening this election. The daily tracking polls have a spread of between 1 and 13 % which has never happened – the biggest gap ever in the Bush Kerry polls in 04 was 1 – 6%. There are clearly major sampling issues with some polls with such huge variations. The other thing that is unusual is the high number of undecideds less than 48 HOURS OUT. By now in 04 this figure was less than 3% whereas we have polls ranging from 4 – 8% with about 5% the average. So what is going on? Almost all the polls appear to oversample Democrats – some by margins in excess of 10%. Pollsters say this is justified by the larger numbers of Dems who registered in the Primaries. However in 1980 and 1988 (years where the Dem nomination was hotly contested) had massive voter registration margins over the GOP and the GOP still won both general elections. The pollsters are assuming all these Dems are likely Obama supporters AND will turn out this time. Clinton supporters (and Rush Limbaugh Operation Chaos Republicans – these are GOP voters who switched their party registration in closed primary states such as TX, OH and PA so that they could vote for Clinton on the assumption that their votes in the GOP primary at the same time were meaningless because by then McCain had the GOP nomination sewed up) are on the books as Dems further skewering the party identification. Some of the polls showing double digit Obama leads are further skewering their results by factoring in a massive turnout model in the early voting of youth and blacks that thus far are not as big as first predicted. These same polls are also factoring in a depressed GOP turnout – something that also does not appear to be the case thus far in early voting. There is no denying that early voter turnout is huge but there is limited evidence that this is breaking hugely in favour of Obama. Finally – the last IBD/TPP daily tracking poll has Obama up by only 4% with almost 10% undecided (that is a huge huge number of decideds and they came the closest (0.2% away from final figure) in 04 in the Presidential.
UPDATE: A mate working with McCain Palin in Colorado rung and said early voting closed there Friday and 25% voted early. An exit poll of the CO early voters was released yesterday and it had Obama only up by 1%. The public polls in CO have Obama up by 3 – 5%. We know exit polls are notorious for favouring the Dems (in 00 and 04 by 5 – 7 %). Let’s be charitable and hope they are a little more accurate this time around and so only favor Obama by 3. This means Obama actually trails McCain by 2% and this means the latest polls in CO overstate Obama’s support by 6%. This is very close to the overpolling results he had in the last 13 primaries vs Clinton. Multiply that across the battleground states and McCain wins and this is not factoring in the fact that undecideds are breaking his way and there are still between 5 – 10% undecided. He said he’s spoken to over 350 registered Republicans and Independents in an area just north of liberal stronghold in Boulder and has come across only FIVE Obama supporters.
2. The Media Effect: The media in the US usually reliably tilt to the left and have given Democrat Presidential candidates generally an easier run. This cycle the media bias for Obama has become more unashamed and blatant. I believe this will backfire particularly with the media calling the race over for McCain before the election. People all over America are turning off and tuning out the MSM. When a majority of voters tell Rasmussen in two polls in the last few months that the media favor Obama there is a major problem. Americans are tired of Manhattan and Hollywood elites telling them how to vote. The media meme that it’s all over and Obama has won will also have the perverse effect of reducing the much vaunted youth vote that will more likely skip the long lines on election day because their man has it in the bag already and doesn’t need them. GOP voters are always more reliable. Case in point – the famous model on You Tube known as Obama Girl that generated millions of hits – on the day of the New York primaries, she was too busy at the manicurist to vote!
3. The Catholic effect: 99% of Catholic Bishops in the US are urging their parishioners to vote for a pro-life candidate because of Obama’s extreme pro-abortion positions (especially his blocking of and vote against the IL version of the Infant Born Alive Protection Act – the Federal version of which passed both houses of Congress unanimously). This has been a very reliable demograph for the Dems. Such overt influence from the pulpit is unprecedented in the modern era.
4. The Jewish effect: When Haaretz (a left leaning Israeli newspaper) reports that Israeli residents legally able to vote in the US have already voted 76% in favor of McCain (a result that hasn’t been this bad for a Dem Presidential candidate since McGovern lost to Nixon big time in 72) we’re seeing another very reliable demograph for Obama looking decidedly wobbly. Jewish voters see Obama being surrounded by advisors more friendly to the Palestinians than Israel.
5. The Palin effect: Forget the MSM meme that she’s a drag on the ticket. Why is Palin is getting the largest real rally crowds of the campaign (not ones with free rock concerts prior to the rally that have boosted some of Obama’s rallies) and Biden is speaking to miniscule groups or that Palin gives press avails almost daily and Biden hasn’t taken media questions since September? It is because Palin has energized the GOP base that was supposed to be dispirited and staying home. I know many McCain hating Republicans who, after his nomination were talking about sitting out the race. When he nominated Palin, they all contributed the max and volunteered with the GOTV efforts. That effect is multiplied across the country especially in the battleground states. A subset to the Palin effect is the NRA (National Rifle Association) effect. The NRA packs real clout in middle America and backs an endorsement with big bucks. The NRA have failed to back GOP candidates for President since 1980 only twice (Bush 1 in 92 and Dole in 96 and both lost). They are spending $5m in three battleground states in the last week.
6. The Bradley Effect: Will Obama suffer the fate of Tom Bradley, the LA mayor who ran for the CA Senate seat in 1982 and seemed to lead his white opponent by 6% but still lost by 2? Same with Wilder in his race in NC in 92. The only way to judge the extent to which there is any ‘Bradley’ effect is to look at Obama’s primary race results against Clinton. Obama’s track record is one of slightly underperforming in actual votes vs pre-primary polls: Just look at the last 14 primaries. Obama was a poor closer against Clinton. His poll standing just before every primary (except NC which has a 37% black population) was the high tide mark whereas most undecideds broke late for Clinton boosting her winning margins from 3 – 7% higher than that predicted in the polls. The most extreme example was the NH primary where most polls had Obama up by 8-9% and Clinton won by 2%. This is the actual real life polling reality Obama faces. He cannot seem to break 50% in most battleground state polls. With 5 – 6% still undecided and with his margins tight and shrinking almost daily in these states, the same scenario of the majority of late breaking undecideds going to McCain is very likely. John McCain, on the other hand, has a track record of strong finishes and come-from-behind wins – witness Romney up by between 2 – 4% in FL but losing by 5% on the day to McCain.
7. The Joe the Plumber effect. In the dying weeks of the campaign, Team Obama has had to defend Obama’s “spreading the wealth around” comment and thence defending socialism something that has prevented the Obama campaign from defining the message as the undecideds firm up their decision. This has been compounded as seemingly every other day Obama surrogates define down the middle class cut off from the original $250k to $120k. Joe the Plumber (and the Obama campaign responses to his issues) has enabled Team McCain to more easily define Obama as a tax and spend liberal – a tag that usually works electorally for the GOP.
8. Obama/Biden Tin Ear effect: PA is a must win state this time around. Team Obama have made several unforced errors that may well cost them a state that Kerry in the end easily won in 04. First was Obama’s much publicized fund raiser on millionaires’ row in San Francisco where he described those in rural PA as being bitter and clinging to guns and God. PA Democrat Congressman Jack Murtha recently chimed in with a similar “rednecks and racist” tag of rural PA. Biden tells a private fundraiser in Seattle that there will be a manufactured crisis from the enemies of the US to test Obama and only yesterday a You Tube clip was released where Obama essentially tells the coal industry that his cap and trade emissions regime will bankrupt them. The heart of coal country – PA, OH, VA and CO – all must win states for Obama.
8. The PUMA effect: This acronym (standing for Party Unity My A**) has come to identify a group of disgruntled Clinton supporters who have vowed to defeat Obama by voting for McCain thereby enhancing the chances of their preferred candidate, Hillary Clinton, winning the Presidency in 2012. It is hard to know what effect this group will have because almost all will still be registered as Democrats. They are very well organized with a network of quite well visited blogs. Various public polls have Obama pulling around 85% of Dems which is lower than the 90% of Republicans saying they’ll vote for McCain. Internal memos leaked from the Obama campaign in some swing states have assessed the percentage of Clinton supporters solidly backing Obama at between 60 – 75%. Given that Clinton attracted 18 million votes in the primaries and, had the MI and FL votes been counted, she would’ve won the popular vote in the primary, 25% represents over 4 million voters. In battleground states, the marginal lead that Obama has could be reversed by only 10,000’s of PUMAs voting for McCain.
I believe the cumulative weight of these 8 effects will carry the day for McCain. I believe it highly probable that Obama will win the popular vote but not the Electoral College vote.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Personally I can’t see McCain winning this. This may well be less of a observation as to how good a president he could be but more of a reflection on just how bad a president Bush was. The turning points in both campaigns to me was the VP selections. Obama selected a VP in Joe Biden who complemented him. In areas Obama was weak, Biden is strong, and we have a complete package.
By selecting Palin, McCain screwed up big time. McCain is 72, and needed to pick a Co-President, not a Vice President. McCain’s age is an issue, and there is no denying it. It may have no bearing on his ability to do the job in reality, but the minds of voters can be as far removed from reality as it could possibly be! That choice in itself represents bad judgement on the part of McCain
Imagine if John Key had picked Bob Clarkson as deputy leader? While I like Bob Clarkson, he would be no good in that role. I find Palin to be a shallow, mis-informed person who has probably risen further than she should have. Bob Clarkson at least knew when to pull the pin.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:36 am
DPF,
you haven’t taken into account the coal mining communities of 85,000+ in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia who are faced with massive job losses if Obambi gets in? Didn’t you see Obama telling America he would bankrupt coal companies and industries using coal? The MSM is so totally biased to the left, 8 out of 10 interviews are of black voters but many of them are so stupid as was proven when some interviewed thought Sarah Palin was Obama’s VP candidate.
I’m with you OECD.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
If Obama does win, the lying communist inspired mainstream media will forever be remembered for their dereliction of duty in failing to subject this Marxist thug and his shady US and international backers to the scrutiny they should have. A massive failure of responsibility and one that in my mind will forever make them worthy only of contempt and disdain. Liars, propagandists and fakes who have betrayed the craft of journalism to the craft of Joseph Goebbells.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
KIA, I think the economic crisis put paid to McCain. It might be closer than the polls suggest but Obama will win.
But won’t you be glad that the international community will find it much harder to blame the US for the world’s problems and continue to shirk their responsibilities with Obama? A silver lining for even the most ardent Rep supporter surely.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:42 am
@ kiwi in america
Thank you – great insights.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:44 am
KIA -
“I believe the cumulative weight of these 8 effects will carry the day for McCain. I believe it highly probable that Obama will win the popular vote but not the Electoral College vote.”
A bold, but ill-informed prediction. Perhaps you’re confusing what you’d most like to happen, with what’s most likely to happen? The normally absent youth vote will carry the day for Obama. Red states will turn blue.
So I look forward to heartily mocking you after the result’s released, and bringing this up when ever you try to spam this site with your far-right propaganda.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Don’t forget to put your bib on Redbaiter. All lick and spittle, you are the fag end of a culture war most US voters I’m sure will be happy to see the end of. Time for the grown ups to take over and clean up the mess of the idealogues.
It will be a sad day for McCain I suspect but he has to take responsibility for the strategic disasters that marked the end game of his campaign. The sideshow that was Sarah Palin and the comic relief provided by Joe the Plumber. You did a heck of a job McCain.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Good Post David, agree with your comments about what could have been, 2008 was not McCain’s year, if he had made the ticket in 2000 things could be very different. Either way neither Obama or McCain will really change the direction of the US, the biggest risk lies with Obama due to over hyped belief that “he is the one” and will save the world.
The US political system isn’t designed to change (balance of constitution, congress and the executive) and then there is also the individual states which are quite independent as it is. The UK times had a good article recently about “why you will hate america in 2-3 years time despite Obama” – which essentially said the problems of Europe is the fact it is a fractured declining power and relies on the US to provide support for european countries pet projects/concerns e.g. the Balkins. The rest of the world is split between a developing Asia which just wants to trade with the US and then the messed up Sth America and Africa which appear frequently as repeat basket cases unable to free themselves from the shackles of their own slavery.
In 2-3 years time these problems will not have changed: predict at least one African famine/war; problems in central america – probably venezuala when Chavez has to learn fiscal constraint as he overspent the oil revenues. The World will look at the US and go “its all your fault”.
That said I don’t think an Obama presidency will be bad for the US, just not what the rest of the world will be hoping for.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Sometimes a wider perspective is needed. Voters on the right, myself included, need to look at what is the best outcome for the rest of the planet. If Obama wins, and he probably will, this is actually the best outcome for the wider world at this time. The legacy of the Bush hegemony will be felt for years to come. Alienating a quarter of the worlds population is the single most destabilising event for the last 50 years. The situation is worse than the cold war. Obama is uniquely placed to go some way to repair some of the damage done. The price the US will pay will be a few years of left leaning social engineering with which we are all to familiar here. In this case, that is a price worth paying as he represents the best hope of dampening down the extremists that have exploited the hard line Bush doctrine over the past 8 years.
McCain remains a strong candidate and someone who would have made a great president. Unfortunately for him he is the victim of the times we live in and the legacy of Bush. If he loses, its a protest vote against the Bush administration rather than a vote for centre left leadership.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:53 am
” I find Palin to be a shallow, mis-informed person who has probably risen further than she should have.”
..and you find that because you have brought lock stock and barrel into the lies of the propagandists at TV One, TV 3, the Herald and every other lying left wing pro-Obama outlet out there. (and a few embittered Conservatives with political axes to grind) You should have more fucken sense. Surely by now you can see past the lies of these manipulators of public opinion? The cowards and smearers who daily sacrifice individual liberty to their great god of universal socialism.
Sarah Palin is an extremely intelligent brave and resourceful woman and mother who has achieved much in her life and in the Alaskan government. Much more than Barack Obama or the lightweight career politician Joe Biden. She needs every bit of support in the face of the cowardly campaign to smear and discredit her waged by the left and their mainstream media propagandists. I will give her that support. You won’t ever find me sucking up the partisan drivel of those media liars, those contemptible puppets who do the work of their scheming power obsessed political masters. I can think for myself.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am
a lot of peoples’ excuses will be looking a bit thin in a few hours. I’ll be particularly interested in what happens between the US and France. Chirac was a complete arse but with Obama and the current French foreign minister – the socialist Bernard Kouchner – there could be far more constructive cooperation.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
If there’s one thing that makes a man a coward, it’s giving up before the final blow is sent home.
Let’s just see who wins and resolve never give up the fight against socialism.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I was in Boston, the home town of John Kerry, during the last election. Everybody knew he had won the election before it had started. FAIL! Oh and of course Al Gore VP to the beloved Billy, couldn’t lose against Bush. FAIL!
Don’t count McCain out yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I agree with Hague. McCain has still got fight left in him yet. Lets see what the final results have to say.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:25 am
DPF said: It would be fascinating to know what would have happened if McCain had won against Bush in 2000 and then been elected againgst Gore. I suspect he would have been a far more sucessful President than Bush.
I’ve often wondered that too DPF. I suspect the world would be far safer and more prosperous than it now is.
Mind you, it would not have been difficult for McCain to be a far more successful President than Bush. I suspect Bush will go down in history as the worst ever President of the US.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 am
whinyoldhori
“Come on David, McCain ranting that the USA needed to confront Russia in Georgia, how utterly mad would that be.”
Obama has said the same thing, and supports Georgia’s inclusion into NATO, which could also spark a war with Russia.
Your very selective with your “information”.
The “non religious types” are a small and shrinking group in the USA. Plenty of evangelical/pentescostal Christians (about a third) support the Dem’s and are increasingly influential in both parties. Thats why Obama has gone to great lengths to court the evangelical vote. Secularism is dying in the US.
But of course you would know that if you were interested in facts, as opposed to whiny ignorance.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:43 am
The polls are out by up to 7% McCain can pull it off.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Trendy liberals and lefties hate Sarah Palin, wonder why?
November 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
KIA and Redbaiter might want to lie down in a dark room with a wet tea towel over their eyes, but McCain threw away the whole ‘experience’ argument when he picked Palin. And before Master Baiter gets his froth on, all you needed to do was look at her own public statements (at least when she wasn’t in lock down taking calls from Canadian shock jocks). McCain took one hell of a roll of the dice, and they came up snake eyes.
And with all due respect, DPF, McCain has been spending too much time trying to hold states that haven’t gone for the Democrats in my lifetime or yours. It’s no credit to him that this was necessary at all — and it might not have been if the McCain I respected in 2000 (and still do now) was headlining a competent, focused and genuinely positive campaign that was all about a reality-based response to the economy, stupids!
November 5th, 2008 at 10:57 am
presspassbob (7) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
“…. Alienating a quarter of the worlds population ……….”
And therein lies the dangers of a biased and manipulative media.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I need to amend my update from CO. The 1% lead in early voting is not Obama McCain but merely generic Democrat Republican. That’s even better news because it cannot factor in the PUMAs crossing over. The various PUMA websites have instructed Hillary’s people to keep registered as Democrats AND to tell pollsters they are Obama supporters.
Any moment now exit polls will be leaked and, surprise surprise, they will show Obama leading and the media will move into a frenzy of “Obama wins”. Which of course reminds us that we heard from the media calling 2000 for Gore and 2004 for Kerry.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Craig, nothing you say on Palin has any weight. You hate Christians because you’re homosexual. You’re free to say and think what ever you want of course, but don’t try and put across the idea that you’re some kind of white knight of objective commentary. You never have been and you never will be. You’re a left wing social liberal viewing politics and society through the prism of your homosexual experience, and your comments always come from that perspective. End of story.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Well, Baiter, I don’t give ignorant fuckwits any weight either. There are plenty of Christians I like a great deal. Incompetent and pathologically dishonest ones, not so much.
I know reality isn’t your strength, but is David Frum a liberal faggot? George Will? All the 410 staff the Anchorage Daily News who just compared Palin’s claims about her record to publicly available records?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
“but is David Frum a liberal faggot?”
Well, he IS Canadian…
November 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
“I know reality isn’t your strength, but is David Frum a liberal faggot? George Will? All the 410 staff the Anchorage Daily News who just compared Palin’s claims about her record to publicly available records?”
What a joke that you need to belabour your bigoted views on Sarah Plain, who enjoys the highest popularity ratings of any US governor, as the same time as Barack Obama and his commie thugs pull off the greatest fraud in American political history. Right under the noses of your pathetic media dahlings scrabbling to print every juicy fiction they can on Sarah Palin. You don’t like Palin because she’s a Conservative Christian. Bet you can’t wait to call her a homophobe right?
November 5th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Well, Baiter, if Palin is still so popular in Alaska isn’t it good news that she’s going to be heading back to Juneau very soon?
Sorry to disappoint – I hardly expect anyone who is particularly gay friendly to be on the Presidential ticket of the current iteration of the GOP. And her initial fudges on the subject are among he least of her stone cold lies.
Unfit and unready to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office in a time of war abroad and economic crisis at home will do me fine.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
“And her initial fudges on the subject are among he least of her stone cold lies.”
If Palin told any lies, your preoccupation with them in the face of the massive fraud and deceit from the Obama camp is another pointer to your weird fixation.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Baiter:
First, you’ve asserted that I hate Palin because of her religion. I’ve never made any comment about the religion of any candidate because I don’t think that’s relevant. Then you go on to assert any animus I have against Palin is motivated by my sexual orientation. Nope — I just happen to think she’s not ready or fit to serve and has been damned by her own actions, public statements and record in public office.
And if you can produce any credible evidence of voter fraud on either side, put it up. Otherwise, you’re starting to sound like those Sore-Loserman nutters eight years back who couldn’t believe they lost fair and square.
You don’t have to agree with me (in fact, I’d be more worried if you did), but could you calm the fuck down and put up a counter argument that doesn’t involve just making shit up?
November 5th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
“You don’t have to agree with me (in fact, I’d be more worried if you did), but could you calm the fuck down and put up a counter argument that doesn’t involve just making shit up?”
Sorry Craig, I could but I’m just bored shitless dealing with false allegations, smears and irrational hatred of the anti-Palin mob.
“And if you can produce any credible evidence of voter fraud on either side, put it up.”
Good grief. Can I take from this inquiry that you think it would be hard to find?? Unbelievable. What kind of sealed bubble do you guys live in?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU
November 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
nd more..
http://townhall.com/blog/g/cf47766b-5a6d-44ab-95e7-ce60631bcadc
November 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
and more
http://hamptonroads.com/print/486648
November 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Funny, because I’m sick of your false allegations, smears and irrational hatreds. I’d challenge you to go find ONE derogatory word I’ve said about Sarah Palin’s religion, but you can’t. I know this will confuse you, but I happen to take my religion very seriously. I don’t like people’s faith being used as a political offensive weapon, so I pay Palin the respect I’d expect to be extended to me; and that has not been shown to Barack Obama by too many around here, come to that.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
You haven’t mentioned homosexual marriage either to my knowledge and you don’t hold her opposition to that against her either do you??
November 7th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Hey redbaiter, what about Sarah Palin not knowing that Africa is a continent not a country?