Dismal understanding of MMP
The Electoral Commission has published a post-election study of knowledge of MMP, and one stat is not pretty:
Only 52% of respondents correctly stated that the party vote is more important than the electorate vote in determining the numebr of MPs each party will get. It was somewhat better pre-election at 67%.
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Tags: Electoral Commission
March 27th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Why would you be surprised DPF?
The vast majority of the public think that all politicians are liars, and crooks.
This perception has not been helped of course by the recent Labour government, for the last nine years they (the public) have had their wishes ignored, their opinions discredited and their money wasted by an increasingly arrogant Labour government.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Yes, but it seems to be a “cyclical understanding”, so perhaps most people lose interest in the mechanics of it all once an election is held?
At least the % who think the electorate vote is most important is as low as its ever been…under 10%.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Time to go back to FFP.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:46 am
What do you expect, given the state of knowledge abroad about economics and history and morals and vital things about the continuance of civilisation? This is all part of the same problem as the one where no responsible and intelligent politician like Roger Douglas can get anything into NZ-ers thick heads, and governments will consist only of outright socialist ones or tory ones who have capitulated to 90% of the socialist, big government, nanny state agenda.
At least in the 1980′s people woke up when things got past a certain point of decline. I hold no such hope now, we have had another quarter century of oncoming generations dumbed down in the socialist-dominated state schooling system. That crowd at the last backbenchers debate put me in a state of deep despondency about our future: it would surprise me not at all if an “MMP-understanding” survey of that crowd yielded a much worse result than that in the wider survey that DPF is lamenting.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Not surprising at all. In Germany, which has had MMP for 50 years, voter understanding is at similar levels. We might as well cut out the government’s advertising budget on this as it makes no impact.
This highlights one of MMP’s major failures, that every vote counts. Early democracies based their franchise on land ownership which in those days was a proxy for education and the ability to make sound judgements about policy etc. Then we had universal franchise under FPP (with lots of wasted votes) and, now, with MMP every vote counts.
MMP has locked in the damaging policy directions that arise from the old maxim that if you rob Peter to pay Paul you can always depend on Paul’s vote. Labour played this to its logical end-point, which is to make sure that a majority of voters are on the tit, then run scare campaigns about how the tit will run dry if the other crowd are elected.
Bring back wasted votes!!
March 27th, 2009 at 10:05 am
So 15% of the population has forgotten how MMP “works” since the election?
Or maybe it is just that the survey methodology is crap.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:18 am
52% of New Zealanders are wrong. Just ask Peter Dunne or Rodney Hide. Sometimes the electorate vote is more important.
You can’t reduce MMP to these simplistic answers. The correct answer is “it depends”.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I must say, even as a constitutional scholar, I struggle with this question. I’ve with Vibenna – both are important, and the importance depends on whether you’re an above or below 5% party…
March 27th, 2009 at 10:47 am
so in 2 seats the electorate vote is more important… thats just the door opener though, the party vote is what brings in the extra MP’s.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
MMP demands too much of voters. Deanknight and Vibenna are correct, but who, other than pointy heads, have the time or inclination to educate themselves to this level?
Most voters regard politics with mild amusement/cynicism or complete disdain. Then we expect them to understand the vagaries of MMP.
The best test of how well a voting system engages the public is voter turnout, and this has been in steady decline since the introduction of MMP, hence Labour’s very successful 2005 campaign in South Auckland to bus people, who would not othersiwe have voted, to polling booths. This ploy arguable bought them another three years and the country three years closer to social and economic ruin!
March 27th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Turnout has been in decline for decades across the whole of the Western world. I don’t think that it has anything to do with MMP or that FPP would increase it. Logically it should have the opposite effect, since under FPP most people live in safe seats and there is little point in bothering to vote.
If you asked the question “Who is New Zealand’s prime minister” I would not be surprised to get a similar level of ignorance. Never-the-less, this does not seem to matter.
A useful analogy: Ask people how a television works and most people will claim to have no idea. But ask them if they know how to use one and 99% will say “yes”. I suspect it is a bit like this with the electoral system (and would apply to FPP as much as to MMP). Those who don’t know (or are just unsure) of the technical details still know how to vote for the person or party they like.
Finally, it is fair to assume that most of the people who don’t understand MMP are also the people who don’t actually vote anyway (about 30% of the adult population). Allowing for that, maybe 80-90% of those who vote understand it just fine thank you. And the remainder are probably people who vote the same way all the time anyway, so it doesn’t matter much whether they understand or not.
March 27th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Easily fixed, the vote form should also have a tickbox where you ask them which vote is the most important, anyone who gets it wrong has their vote ripped up.
March 27th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Ahhh And how many times has this poster advocated for an IQ test and a political knowledge test before the great unwashed are allowed anywhere near the polling booth
Seems this poster has yet again been proved right
We have the ignorant voting for the incompetent No a great look.
March 27th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I suspect a similar if not larger fraction of the populus don’t know how to set their VCR/DVD/Bluray clock.
People are dumb. But they serve a useful purpose in that they make the rest of us smart in comparison.
March 27th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Look, if we had brighter, better educated people, and no leftist-induced dumbing down via our institutions, we would get a much better government and improving economic and societal outcomes irrespective of the type of voting system. The voting system is a peripheral problem.
March 27th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
This really pisses me off. It shows that education campaigns are a waste of money. For years we have had those stupid orange characters telling the dumbasses how the system works and it looks like the only thing they were good for was providing inspiration for some Wellington 7s costumes. Left or Right, most of the people here understand the system pretty damn well and our votes are cancelled out by numbskulls who can vote with a cross because that is how they sign their names.
March 27th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Trouble is stupid people don’t know they are stupid, they just do what mum and dad did
March 27th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Add Tauranga to Epsom and Ohariu-Belmont. It was the sort of stupid question you expect from bureaucrats and the results are meaningless.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
unfortunately
no electoral system
is idiot proof
March 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Trouble is, it’s not stupid people, it’s disinterested people.
Disinterested because they think either it doesn’t matter or it’s boring.
You can’t do much really about either category, unless you’re prepared to give them a jolt by demonstrating why it matters by doing something really serious like starting a war that you look like you’re going to lose, and/or by disenfranchising them until they demonstrate sufficient interest to be entitled to vote.
Having said that, it’s interesting isn’t it, that sometimes these people make the right choice. It’s just that they don’t do it often enough or consistently enough. Consequently, politics from the viewpoint of the citizen is a cluster-fuck most of time since these are the people who decide govts.
Imagine the potential of the nation if it wasn’t that way.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Most of you are obviously the better drivers.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
kiki – yes, yes we are.
March 28th, 2009 at 3:59 am
There’s a theme of arrogance here, which we’ve all been upset about when labour and their supporters did it – phrases like “People are dumb”, “Trouble is stupid people don’t know they are stupid”, “…our votes are cancelled out by numbskulls who can vote with a cross because that is how they sign their names.”, ‘….can get anything into NZ-ers thick heads”
out of only 22 posts. Very much a we-know-best attitude.
I’m with reid – frankly, I, like many, have not truly cared about politics until it got to the point it actually mattered. Mind you, I did always understand proportional representation having lived under such a system prior to coming to NZ but did I give a damn about politics? Christ no! Much more important things to do. This is what such a result indicates – the average kiwi is reasonably sensible in terms of just getting on with their life – politics is just yet another complication in a complicated world. It only started to matter to me when we had countries hijacked by the likes of our latest UN appointee.
I have a science and computing background and most people are frankly ignorant about the most basic science (one the reasons it’s hard to have an enlightened conversation around AGW and its many flaws) I have very successful friends and colleagues (from a business and/or personal sense) who don’t really understand how the greenhouse effect works at the most basic level. Does this make them stupid? Of course not! I suggest the same applies to politics.
Let’s not forget that people en masse are typically smart – we all, hopefully, know about the results of asking larger groups the answers to questions or predictions and that, as a group, the answers are typically accurate and knowledgeable. When they are not it is frequently an indication of lack of motivation or interest or a badly framed question. Let’s not get a bit above ourselves. To the average kiwi we are a bit train spotter-ish and we should not get too upset if they don’t recognise the make of our latest train set.
… and let’s learn from others’ mistakes and not get too arrogant.
March 28th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Of course we know best … we’re smart … arn’t we ? Not like those dumb chooks down the road. How can we survive with our BMW’s and SUV’s if we are not better? You are on the ball slijmbal