Was the Iranian election stolen?
June 14th, 2009 at 1:26 pm by David FarrarHarry’s Place covers the Iranian elections.
Andrew Sullivan has also had great coverage of the Iranian elections – much better than in most media.
The army is on the streets, There are protests. Cellphone communications were turned off. This could go very big.
Related posts:
- More Iranian photoshopping
- Poor Iranian gamers
- Has Iran declared war on the UK?
- What it means to be the good guys
June 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Was the Iranian election stolen?
Does the Pope wear a pointy hat?
Vote:Do big, brown bears shit in the woods?
Are the Kennedys gun-shy?
June 14th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
As long as the US hasn’t found another King to put there.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
So, Ahmadinnerjacket is a crook as well as a nutter.
Much shit to yet fly.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
It amazes me how the left will apease nutters like I’minajam, “Oh, he dosen’t really mean “wipe of the map” its a figure of speech”
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Repeat from general thread:
The press coverage of the Iranian election and its aftermath is an example of what I’ve been saying all along about media manipulation.
It’s everywhere and the world’s press is doing it’s best first to setup the impression that Ahmadinejad didn’t have any support and now with banner coverage of nothing but protests, that it was fixed.
See, useful idiots are on both sides of the fence. Media manipulation does NOT happen in only one direction. Believing that is the height of naivity yet many useful idiots on the conservative side are only too happy to accept manipulation when they proclaim it as ‘lefty bias’ but those same people completely ignore the manipulation that’s been going on for years, about Iran being an evil empire bent on Israel’s destruction.
This latest coverage is merely another piece in that particular jigsaw and I expect many useful idiots on the conservative side will meekly accept that perspective without any critical analysis whatsoever.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so important, because it’s only when you can see through that particular bullshit that you’re able to perceive things as they happen, like the fact that the Iraq war was a complete jack-up from the start. Personally I knew it was before the invasion began and over the years most other people have also understood that fact but only as information has slowly filtered out. Staggeringly, even now, some of the more obtuse useful idiots on the conservative side still believe it was legitimate.
They’re the people Lincoln was talking about when he said: “You can fool some of the people ALL of the time…”
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Was the Mt Albert election stolen? Nah, it was pissed away by disorganised incompetents. National’s performance stank! It doesn’t look as though they have much in reserve, following a shoe-in in the General Election. Labour look hugely invigorated by their win!
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Re Village Idiot at 1.45…
What has the Mt Albert byelection got to do with Ahmadinejad?
Don’t tell me the NZ Labour filthy tactics saboteur section has been over there lending a hand to Ahmad?
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
DPF: I agree that there may be much to come in this election campaign, despite polling day being over. But the graph you show here may not be a smoking gun. Check out Nate Silver’s take on that at: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/statistical-evidence-does-not-prove.html
[DPF: Yeah just saw that. Some others have responded to it. Agree not proof, but combined with other elements, it is highly suspect]
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
For those who want to keep track of emerging developments the New York Times has a source aggregation page.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Nate Silver’s analysis is pretty flawed – he’s totally homogenised his US sample, and even then comes out with twice the variance seen in Iran.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
And a video of the rioting.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
When The Saudi’s, Egyptians, Syrians in fact any Arab nation has the courage to even allow a vote then that would be news. Do you wonder why it is that the Persians are the enemy when they are one of the few/only in the region that have reasonably open elections.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
What amazes me, Shunda, is that the first thing you can think of posting is some blanket bullshit about the left, apropos of absolutely nothing. Obsessed much? Grow up and actually think about the issue being discussed.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust the results as far as I could throw them, but obviously I have no way of being sure. It’s up to the Iranians now – as much as the international community loves to stand back and fingerwag, in reality, it’s up to the Iranian citizens to do something about it. Hopefully there are people of courage there willing to fight against any injustice here.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Just seen on the front page of an Iranian news paper.
MOVE ON! – retrospective validations to be passed under urgency.
Apparently the supporters of the corrupt govt (who were wearing red and chanting “we won, you lost – eat that”) are very happy with the outcome.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
One employee of the Interior Ministry, which carried out the vote count, said the government had been preparing its fraud for weeks, purging anyone of doubtful loyalty and importing pliable staff members from around the country.
“They didn’t rig the vote,” claimed the man, who showed his ministry identification card but pleaded not to be named. “They didn’t even look at the vote. They just wrote the name and put the number in front of it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/world/middleeast/14memo.html?_r=1&ref=global-home
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Sorry trans, but you seem a little up tight.
I guess when left wing people on this blog have defended this guy in the past, and then he says things like:
“No one has the right to insult the president, and they did it. And this is a crime. The person who insulted the president should be punished, and the punishment is jail…”
I get a little concerned.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I’m left wing, and I’ve never defended the guy before in my life. Middle East could do with out him, to be honest.
And you’re only concerned because you seem to be incapable of comprehending that being a member of a group does not immediately mean you support and endorse every little thing that every individual within that group has said or done, because (a) often the group is artificially applied by non-group members too lazy to break the us vs tem mindset, and (b) everyone is different.
If you could get over that, your concern levels may drop. You may have to think a little more when you post, however, but I’m sure you’re smart enough to handle that.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
In my experience the Iranian people are passionate about their causes. I’m picking a ‘move on’ in Iran has the opposite effect on the people that ‘move on’ has in NZ.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Strange, one would think that the foaming at the mouth right wingers would be in favor of dinnerjacket winning the election.
Vote:Him being a conservative and all
June 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Hmmm… stolen election, Klark goes to the UN……..
Does anybody know if dear ex corrupt leader has spent any time in Iran of late?
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Interesting article from Juan Cole here
http://www.juancole.com/2009/06/stealing-iranian-election.html
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
“And you’re only concerned because you seem to be incapable of comprehending that being a member of a group does not immediately mean you support and endorse every little thing that every individual within that group has said or done, because (a) often the group is artificially applied by non-group members too lazy to break the us vs tem mindset, and (b) everyone is different.”
So what are YOU doing to moderate those radicals within your group? The left have lost credibility in NZ, do you have any idea why?
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Glad we’re agreed DPF.
And a sarcastic “You Go Girl” to village idiot, Jack5, burt, and big bruv for trying to turn a thread about an election in Iran into another discussion of the New Zealand Labour and National parties. Get a life!
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Big Bruv
‘Does anybody know if dear ex corrupt leader has spent any time in Iran of late?’
Correction ‘dear corrupt ex leader’
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Thanks for the link to Andrew Sullivan, DPF. Enlightening. It reminds me of 1968, and I was listening to the radio late at night as the Soviet Army marched into Prague. And years later watching the reports from Tienamen (sp?) Square. I wonder if again we are witnesses to an historical moment. Time will tell, but from Sullivan’s coverage, there is little interest or coverage from the West, at least so far.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Yes Swifty, my mistake.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Re; Shunda
Not my group, mate. I believe what I believe, and it’s not my job to tell other “left wingers” how to act just because people like you lazily lump them into the same category as me. If you can’t distinguish between my position and a radical position, it’s something you need to worry about, not me. I’ll argue about policy and ideas, but I think it’s intellectually puny to insist that someone else change because “it makes our group look bad”
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
And a sarcastic “You Go Girl” to Rob Salmond who gets to speak from a position of principle about stolen elections now it’s not Labour doing it.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
“I’ll argue about policy and ideas, but I think it’s intellectually puny to insist that someone else change because “it makes our group look bad””
My original post that you took such offense to was based on frequent long and protracted discussion on this blog with left wingers appeasing Iranian nutters, palestinian nutters, and any other politically correct psycopaths.
Vote:But just for you I retract “the left” and insert “the extreme left”
happy?
you intellectual goliath you.
June 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Is Village Idiot on the sauce again? “Liarbore look hugely invigorated with their win!”. ????????????????? tossers.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
None of this would be happening if Ahmadinejad had just got his EFA up and running sooner.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
“In an open letter, a group of employees of Iran’s Interior Ministry (which supervises the elections) warned the nation that a hard-line ayatollah, who supports President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has issued a Fatwa authorizing changing votes in the incumbent’s favor.”
http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/07/fatwa-issued-for-changing-the-vote-in-favor-of-ahmadinejad/
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Shunda:
And yet those nutters have nothing to do with me, and thus I’m not sure why I should be reigning them in.
Still, good to see you making the effort. I even appreciate that rather than using a direct insult, you went with sarcasm at the end there, allowing me to take it at face value and carry on with my Sunday as normal.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
“Was the Iranian election stolen?”
Yep, sure was.
But its OK.
He’s Obama’s buddy.
(ACORN???)
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Hey just a question, given the stats on the liklihood of the US electing a black person, does anyone think that Obama’s election should be investigated as well, or does this only apply when “ragheads” do it?
And another question, anyone notice all those green shirted people at the front of the demonstrations? Almost like they were organising them.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Deleted by poster.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Why don’t you do that more often, RB?
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
grumpyoldhori, Ahmadinnerjacket sounds like your average Labourite – ugly as dirt, friendly with Chavez and with a penchant for backing anti-Western forces around the globe and generally interfering in things with all the best intentions and mucking everything up.
As for the election results, I read that Mousavi lost his hometown. That’s almost an impossibility. Even Helen Clark won her electorate.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
“And yet those nutters have nothing to do with me, and thus I’m not sure why I should be reigning them in.”
Well I guess if someone values their own beliefs they occasionally get upset over those that misrepresent those values.
Vote:I always feel sorry for those old fella’s that speak of the labour movement with such passion, I just don’t have the heart to tell them that the labour party don’t give a rats razoo about the working man and his family any more.
June 14th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
How can anyone else misrepresent MY values by expressing their own? That doesn’t make any sense. Perhaps we are confusing political leanings with party membership, which are two completely different things. I would agree that you’d have to maintain more control over members of a particular political party, but that would be because it involves a group of people consciously uniting under a specific, self-developed banner. That’s a lot different from expecting me, with no party affiliation whatsover and merely ruminating on my own worldviews, to get upset by militant greenies or whatever acting like idiots. Nothing to do with me, and anyone who finds it easier to lump me in with them is someone I probably have no further interest in debating, seeing as they are obviously in the stranglehold of tribal cheerleading.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I don’t need a graph to tell me Iran is not a democracy. What I find blinding is that anybody would think Iran’s elections are anything other than an utter sham, of the sort so mastered by the USSR.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
“What I find blinding is that anybody would think Iran’s elections are anything other than an utter sham, of the sort so mastered by the USSR.”
Really? That’s a good summary of what I think about the US elections.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
And a sham just like the US or England or france would organise as well
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Absolutely reid
If the media had not been licking Obama’s arsehole there is no way a muslim terrorist would have ever won
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Is that the same “muslim terrorist” who won on Shrub’s watch? Were the media licking Shrub’s areshole? Well, they sure were over WMD, but you didn’t seem to mind then. Why should only Shrub have a clean arsehole?
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Surprised you haven’t congratulated Ahmamadasshit for his stunning victory over the forces of fascist racist Western military-industrial imperialism yet, Bonkers.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Why should I? I have no love for ignorant religious cranks, and he’s right up at the top of the list.
See, unlike you, I can be consistent.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
“Is that the same “muslim terrorist” who won on Shrub’s watch”
Shrub was only the temp captain of the ship, billy. Not the owner.
Important distinction.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
?
Vote:Are you saying Obama owns the ship?
June 14th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
No, Obama’s in the same position as Bush.
He takes orders and does what he’s told.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
which was exactly my point – huff n puff seems to think obama and the us media are responsible for the Iranian election result, yet cannot conceive that, on that basis, Shrub is as culpable.
Of Course, it could be that Obama just doesn’t see “regime change” as a mandate of his job.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
“Of Course, it could be that Obama just doesn’t see “regime change” as a mandate of his job.”
If I was you billy, I wouldn’t take anything that Obama says as genuine. There’s not a whole heck of a lot of difference between him and Bush.
Despite what the useful idiots appear to imagine.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Obama lost me a long time ago, but the lowest point came with his recent speech in Cairo where he spoke of Islam as if it was a nation, as if it was an homogenous group.
In the words of former Great Mufti of Marseilles, Soheib Bencheikh, : ‘I have never seen a Qur’an walking in the street’…
This perpetuates the clash of civilisations that captured Shrub’s presidency.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
of course there was vote tampering, probably on both sides, but since Ahmadinejad’s in power he’s got the stronger hand in that dept. Welcome to the Middle East.
Vote:But it’s not as if it actually makes that much difference who wins the presidential elections – the Council of Gurdians (ie the unelected clerical wing of the gvt) have final say over almost all matters of gvt, with a veto power over the elected wing (including on all really important matters such as international affairs, and constitutional matters). You have not just witnessed a peaceful revolution being thwarted. If there is really going to be a change in Iran, these events will only make the support for that revolution stronger.
IMHO
June 14th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
“This perpetuates the clash of civilisations that captured Shrub’s presidency.”
yes billy, personally, I’d put it like:
“This captured the clash of civilisations that Shrub’s presidency sought to
perpetuateexacerbate”We live in a land of bullshit, billy. Indeed we do.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
The eternal pessimist in me thinks that Ahmedinejad really did win overwhelmingly outside of Tehran and that Persians are confirmed to be, by and large, fools. Well-publicised overt protests about it, however, will strengthen Israel’s case when the time comes to neutralise Iran’s nuclear programme.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
reid
You asked earlier; “Hey just a question, given the stats on the liklihood of the US electing a black person”
I couldn’t find a good link but I did find this statistical analysis (THE CASE OF THE UNCOUNTED BALLOTS ) that could be relevant. Solve the error rate and the turnout and… Democracy restored.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
>>I’m left wing, and I’ve never defended the guy before in my life. Middle East could do with out him, to be honest.
Well good for you transmogrifier, you are obviously part of the small remaining group of honourable left wingers. But until the left as a whole disowns fuckheads like Billy Borker, I will not consider them as trustworthy at all.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Sounds like that’s more your problem than mine. Billy’s not part of my team in any way shape or form, and thus beyond my interest in defending. You can assume my silence doesn’t mean much at all. After all, I am yet to say anything at all about these people:
Anne Coulter
Hitler
Thurston Moore
My grandmother
Ghandi
The guy who cuts my hair
and they cover the whole range of my support/dislike.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Good work, burt.
Vote:June 14th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
@Transmogrifier
The mere mention of Thurston Moore marks you out as a trecherous Maoist. All right-minded people know Kim Gordon was the real brains in the outfit.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 12:15 am
Transmogrifer, glad to hear it but damn, I knew you would say something like that. I should have pre-empted it.
I weren’t talking about you personally, I meant the left as whole which I know is a generalization.
Contrast that to the right’s attitude to people in their camp they don’t like, exhibit one Richard Worth.
Maybe it is the difference between individualism and collectivism
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Um… David…
I’m happy to believe the Iranian election was rigged, but that chart ain’t evidence. I’ve posted here: http://bkdrinkwater.blogspot.com/2009/06/you-call-that-evidence.html where I show the chart for Saturday’s by-election, which has a very similar linear trend.
EDIT: Oops! Someone’s already on it. Sorry. That teaches me the folly of late-night blog-reading. Anyway, I think the point stands. If the Iranian chart is evidence at all of a rigged election, so is the Mt Albert one, and we’re lucky enough not to have rigged elections in this country.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 9:45 am
I visited Iran three years ago for 18 days. Went from the Caspian Sea to Shiraz and spent time in Tehran.I,m not an authority by any means !
Vote:Fascinating country with tremendously talented people.
Be aware, Tehran is a very divided city with Northern Tehran very like Paris, with opulence and a very educated middle and upper classes-outdoor dining only lacking alcohol. The southern area of Tehran is very much working and lower class, where Ahdamenajab would get his support. It is a huge city, the population is only an estimate.
Rural Iran would also be conservative as well.
I found the younger people keen to talk and you could feel their annoyance at the actions of the governmenmt.
Walking Tehran one was amazed at the young people, avoiding the governments prying eye.
Male and female used texting as a means to meet each other.Great to see them in a secluded tea bar. What goes on in the Iranian home would also be rather revealing especially to the authorities.
When I was in Iran the popular overseas show was Baywatch, watched on satellite TV from Turkey.
A last comment – 70% of the population are under 25 I think. A n upward spurt in births followed the 1979 revolution. Now the aged clerics are in the gun.
It’s a pity the Americans screwed up so badly during the time of the Shah.
A last comment. Ahdemenabad doesn’t have much power, that lies with the supreme clericdal leader Khameini.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:07 am
“Most of the Western media were predicting a close race, and some were even suggesting that a landslide for Mousavi might be possible. But the actual results were presaged by those of the telephone survey of Iranian voters conducted by Terror Free Tomorrow: The Center for Public Opinion, the New America Foundation, and KA Europe SPRL about a month before election day.”
Vote:http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=620687
June 15th, 2009 at 10:18 am
An interesting fact on counterpoint last night (on ABC) – Iran now has the highest number of executions per capita – higher than China!
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 10:21 am
It’s more that it’s an English figure of speech that doesn’t exist in Farsi, and the exact translation was rather that the Israeli regime should “vanish from the pages of history” – not much different from any other call for regime change.
To object to a mistranslation isn’t “appeasing” – it’s refusing to get caught up in a witch hunt based on inaccuracies.
Objecting to mistranslations and misinformation isn’t a purely leftist notion, surely.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 10:29 am
What would you lose by not making those generalisations at all?
The same question goes for anyone who makes claims about “the right”.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 10:32 am
@Neil
“A last comment – 70% of the population are under 25 I think. An upward spurt in births followed the 1979 revolution. Now the aged clerics are in the gun.”
These are Iran’s ‘baby boomers’. Iran is going through social upheavals much as the west did in the 1960s. All many Iranians see now are pointless rules – and this might include the Iranians whose very task it is to enforce them.
When I was in Tehran I found it funny to see womens headscarves were just a formality – they had them pinned right to the back of the head, they might as well have not been there at all. It is conceivable that the next generation will not wear them at all.
Iran may not adopt full-scale western-style liberalism, but there is much optimism that the state becomes more comfortable with secularism, as Turkey has. There are a few pains now, as they ‘loosen up’, but the clerics will have to accept this for their own self-preservation.
I am optimistic for them. If you look at how Westminster used to be run, it was a system of reform which lead to the supremacy of parliament. in Iran, the clerics and the ‘supreme leader’ are reminiscent of a monarch and house of lords staring powerless at the face of genuine democratic change.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Some photos from the riots.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Ephemera’s post is spot on.
Vote:I too found the perfunctory wearing of headscarves very evident in Iran.People are very fashion conscious in Iran- in areas of urbanized Northern Tehran. The rest of the country are there for manipulation.
The American’s were a disaster with the Shah, where alcohol,nudity and loose living was hoisted on an ancient civilization.
Apparently in 1976 the USA had a huge laser display on the Alborez Mountains with a gigantic American flag bathing those peaks. Went down well !!!!!!!!!!!
As well, the Americans insisted on immunity from prosecution despite rapes etc.
The Shah was seen by the west as a great man. He had no idea of the ethos of his country, in many cases people living like they did 500 years ago.
Iran is always going to have a strong Islamist background but maybe things will change.
A last comment – I went to Egypt after Iran and found that their Islam religion was stronger there than in Iran. I found that Iran’s Islam was somewhat superficial. Making money seemed more important.
June 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am
@Neil
“Iran’s Islam was somewhat superficial.”
It is, because Iranian culture has always been about more than just Islam – they are the only Islamic country whose national holiday is not a muslim holy day, but a Zoroastrian festival co-opted into something nominally Shia.
Iranians often seem more proud of their history and traditions, which stretch back further than the arrival of Islam. As you say about the Shah ruling a country with people living as they did 500 years ago – My parents travelled through the the place in the 1970s, and the way my father describes it, it was like something out of an Indiana Jones movie!
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Ryan – you make it sound like Ahmadinejad’s a nice guy – that the mistranslation and all just makes him look bad. Oh – he’s just asking for the Israeli government to be voted out peacefully
Here’s some other great quotes from him:
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation’s fury.”
“Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations.”
“If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d’ tre, Israel will be annihilated.”
“Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed.”
“Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm.”
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 11:58 am
@TimG_Oz
Ahmadinejad’s a twat. I think we can all agree on this, and anyone who doesn’t must be living on cloud cuckoo.
There is a seriously fucked up strand of anti-semitism running through Iran, which Ahmadinejad subscribes to, so we can take much of what he says as face value – sirring up anti Israel sentiment with his rhetoric.
I think there is some merit in Ryan’s point about there being confusion in the interpretation. Take these two quotes:
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation’s fury.”
“Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm.”
I doubt he seriously thinks anybody within or outside of Iran who recognises Israel will burn in any kind of furious fire. Otherwise he would have slaughtered Iran’s jewish community already. Nor do I quite understand what he means about Israel being a rotten, dried tree.
He is using very colourful language which clearly contains poetic flourishes – Persians prefer poetry to novels. There are probably all sorts of signifiers and dogwhistles in his speeches that get lost not only in translation, but also in cultural points of reference. Some might even even argue that the term ‘annihilation’ does have the same connotation to them as us.
Again, I am not condoning the man or his statements, but there is a lot of hyperbole there which tends to get ratcheted up a few extra notches by the time it gets to us.
Vote:June 15th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I don’t recall saying he was a nice guy.
This is my point. Why is it not possible to correct a mistranslation without having a bunch of things I haven’t said ascribed to me? Why can I not point out that he didn’t say X without being accused of claiming he didn’t say Y, Z and everything else?
Vote:June 16th, 2009 at 10:41 am
“The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin — greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday’s election. “
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757_pf.html
“NCRI – Students from the University of Babolsar (northern Iran) raised questions about the role of the Iranian regime’s former prime minister, Mirhossein Moussavi, in the 1988 massacre of political prisoners during his visit to the university on Monday, May 4, 2009.
When Moussavi dodged their questions, students quickly retorted by chants of “Mirhossein, give us an answer about 1988.”
Moussavi, who acted as the mullahs’ prime minister when Ruhollah Khomeini reigned as the regime’s Supreme Leader, has announced his candidacy for the mullahs’ upcoming sham presidential elections.
On Monday, one of the students asked Moussavi about kangaroo trials that issued judgments in the span of a few minutes and led to the execution of thousands of political prisoners in 1988. The student added: At the time, you were the prime minister. You were the third most powerful person in the country. What do you have to say now about your silence back then when all this was taking place? Was your silence a sign of endorsement? We want to stress again that you should explicitly respond to this question.”
http://ncr-iran.org/content/view/6314/1/
Vote: