Normal xenophobia from Winston
October 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm by David FarrarNew Zealand First leader Winston Peters is back with all guns blazing today in a speech slamming immigration, foreign ownership and the Government.
Saying NZ First would be fighting the 2011 election to save the country, Mr Peters returned with relish to his old themes of immigration and foreign investment.
The comments were made in speech notes for delivery to the Kawerau and Districts Grey Power meeting this afternoon.
New Zealand had suffered a “tsunami” of immigrants, he said, and large scale immigration could not be justified when 140,000 people were out of work. …
The burden of immigrants on welfare and pensions was bemoaned.
“These people are feasting on your pension pie … the pension pie you and other Kiwis paid for.”
I’ve just gone to Stats NZ and got their annual stats for people arriving in NZ on a residence permit. They are for June years:
- 2006 – 17,917
- 2007 – 17,156
- 2008 – 15,262
- 2009 – 14,275
If that is a tsunami, it is a rapidly shrinking one. How pathetic and desperate is he to resort to his tactics of 15 years ago.
Related posts:
- Winston on Super again
- Stratford on lunch with Winston:
- Winston says no to super age increase
- Deborah on Winston
October 9th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Shorter DPF: How pathetic and desperate is he.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
A truly hideous man. I only wish the media would ignore him.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Pardon the swearing, DPF, but FUCK! I thought we had got rid of this man’s insidious version of politics in the last election.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Another case of LCM (low class Maori). What else do you expect?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
We can all forget this crook and corrupt individual. The venal Peters is history, ancient history.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I wonder if Mr Goff will rule him out of any government he is a part of. Labour couldn’t manage to do that at the last election.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Remember, its all about trusts.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Correct me if I am wrong
…but after the National party expressed horror and contempt for these tactics of 15 years ago, didn’t Jim Bolger make Winston his Deputy? …didn’t the principled National party grovel and beg for a third term in office?
Furthermore if Winston pulls it off in 2011 won’t John Key be throwing the Maori party out the back door and welcoming Winston in the front if that is what it takes for a second term?
The only political party in New Zealand which would give short shrift to Mr Peters is the Libertarianz; everyone else has shown themselves to be $5 tarts whenever Winston gets enough votes and I therefore think it a bit rich for anyone who is not a Libertarianz voter to be criticising Mr Peters because your chaps (of whatever stripe) have been in Government with Peters at one time or another.
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
The only thing I could agree with him on is the bit where a new immigrant gets their residency and then brings in all the aged relatives who get to go on national super. I do think there should be some stand-down before that is allowed – like ten or fifteen years residency before grandma and granddad arrive.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Mr Lineberry yes Mr Bolger did welcome Mr Peters in, and I thought at the time it was a sad day for New Zealand.
Unlike Mr Goff’s party, Mr Key did rule Mr Peters out.
The libertarianz have never been in parliament so it’s a bit self-elevating to say they have spurned Mr Peters.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Winston is almost guilty of elder abuse here.
He front’s up to this usual constituency, and 90% of them are saying to each other “Who’s this new, smartly dressed and charming young man? Yes, all these foreigners. Isn’t it shocking what’s happening to our country! He’ll get my vote” … despite the fact they can’t remember their voting for him the last time. And the time before.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Brain Smaller
I think one has to have lived in NZ for 10 years before being eligible for Super.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Tim Ellis said: “I wonder if Mr Goff will rule him out of any government he is a part of. Labour couldn’t manage to do that at the last election.”
John Key hasn’t managed to do it for the next one.
NZPA. Aug 31:
During the last election campaign Mr Key ruled out working with Mr Peters if National won.
Asked today if he would extend that ban he was not sure.
“We’ll cross that bridge if we ever come to it,” he told TV One’s Breakfast programme.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
LOL yeah the 99.95 % of the country who didn’t vote Libertarianz look like idiots now, they must really be sorry.
Vote:Look in the dictionary under “delusional” and you see an the Libertarianz party list with 36 places…
October 9th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Are you sure? What about other benefits. And by the way, thanks for noticing.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
“New Zealand had suffered a “tsunami” of immigrants,”
He should not have said that unless he wants Chrissy and his missus dropping in for a holiday at his place.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
According to WINZ…
You may be able to get New Zealand Superannuation if you:
…
You must also have lived in New Zealand for at least 10 years since you turned 20. Five of those years must be since you turned 50.
Not sure about other benefits, but I think most have some sort of stand-down.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Are you sure? What about other benefits. And by the way, thanks for noticing.
I would guess the super gold card goes to anyone old, if seeing old Chinese(?) people who can barely say ‘hello’ to the bus driver is any sort of standard to go by.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Johnboy
“He should not have said that unless he wants Chrissy and his missus dropping in for a holiday at his place.”
Average call, mate. Very average.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
“Average call, mate. Very average.”
Self appointed scorer are you then?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
There are around 160,000 to 180,000 work permits issued annually. It is a tsunami he is correct about that.
Winston is just trying it on. His supporters are probably the thickest people on the planet outside of Obama supporters. NZ’s welfare state is unsustainable without massive immigration.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
That was bloody average Johnboy, but DPF doesn’t give out much more than 20 demerits these days so you should be fine for a while.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
He should not have said that unless he wants Chrissy and his missus dropping in for a holiday at his place.
tee hee hee ! very good…
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
How long will it take these ignorant old fools to die off? Peter Brown will be sitting in the front row sagely nodding his head at everything Winnie says about immigrants, I wonder if he notices the irony?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Swiftman the infidel should get demerit points DPF for his comment at 12:53pm. Purely racist.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
getstaffed (3883) Vote: 8 0 Says:
October 9th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Its called “old timers disease”
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Thank God No amount of hot air can make a souffle rise twice
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
“I’ve just gone to Stats NZ and got their annual stats for people arriving in NZ on a residence permit. They are for June years:
2006 – 17,917
2007 – 17,156
2008 – 15,262
2009 – 14,275 ”
As you’d expect there are statistics and then there are statistics – The 14275 arriving on Residence permits is only one part of the equation: Add in 23,000 on work permits, then the number is more significant. (and doesnt include Australians!!)
From Stats Website :
Annual PLT migration by permit type
In the June 2009 year, 28,800 PLT arrivals were Australian or New Zealand citizens who did not
require a permit to remain in New Zealand. Of PLT arrivals who did require a permit, 23,300
arrived on work permits, 16,100 arrived on student permits, 14,300 arrived on residence permits,
and 5,200 arrived on visitor permits. Compared with the June 2008 year, there were more PLT
arrivals on student permits (up 2,400) and work permits (up 700), but fewer arrivals on residence
permits (down 1,000). The majority of residence approvals in recent years have been granted
onshore, to people who arrived on other permit types
(PLT = permanent & long term arivals)
[DPF: Work permits can be rescinded, can be temporary, and tend to be targeted in areas of skills shortage so I don't think are that relevant to Winnie's claims. And the Govt has been chopping back significantly on them anyway]
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Hell tautologybaxter we have your buddy xfactor acting as self appointed scorer and now you acting as self appointed moderator (or is that just little sneak).
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
A “tsunami of immigrants”. What incredibly bad taste, given recent events.
Can’t imagine it getting him many votes from those with families and friends in Samoa and Tonga.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Perhaps he was misquoted and said “tsunami of water”?
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Is there a NZ standard for the leader of this party of diminishing returns.
Vote:I thought “e was dead” as the Norwegian Blue, this must be a replica. Someone please tell the NZ Histerical Faces trust.
Please people, reassure me the deathrate among his supporters is never exceeded by the number joining.
Back to line one, there can not be a viable replacement for him, can there?
PS where is that a/c rendered for $158 000.
October 9th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Simon -
That is what they thought in Sweden, UK and the Netherlands. Look how well that is working out for them. Millions of immigrants from the Middle east, North Africa, Albania and Pakistan and hugely increased welfare rolls. It really depends on where you get your imimgrants from.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
“Swiftman the infidel should get demerit points DPF for his comment at 12:53pm. Purely racist.”
Absolute rubbish. I loath low class Pakeha too. I’m an equal opportunity classist if you like.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
It really depends on where you get your imimgrants from.
There are smart, qualified people almost everywhere, why does it matter where they come from?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Go to Swedenistan or Al-Norway and you will know why. Give me smart hard-working Indians from the sub-continent and young European immigrants any day. Contributing and they don’t want to change my society.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Voice of reason
If you want to throw in to the numbers all Aussies moving to NZ , then you have to count Kiwis going the other way.
And although I don’t have access to the figures now, I have no doubt that there are way more kiwis going west to take advantage of Australia’s (relatively) much more boyant economy than vice versa.
Now I’m all in favour of open immigration myself, but if you want to start restricting flows, aren’t we Aussies perfectly entitled to say we will no longer hoover up your unemplyed masses?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
A “tsunami of immigrants”.
Love it. let’s ring em now
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
@12.57 comment…
Libertarianz..? Ha Ha, yes we must all be really disapointed we didn’t vote for those nutters…
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
straya (18) Says:
October 9th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Voice of reason
If you want to throw in to the numbers all Aussies moving to NZ , then you have to count Kiwis going the other way.
I dont want to include Australians (the !! was for purposes of irony) – All I am pointing out is that DPF listed 14725 as the “immigrant tsunami” figure for 2009 – whereas the figure should include work permits apps as well therefore the figure is +37000
BTW it seems the outflow to Aus is reversing.
Vote:From Stats
PLT arrivals exceeded departures by 700 in June 2009, compared with a net PLT outflow of 600
in June 2008. The increase was mainly due to 1,900 fewer PLT departures, including 1,600 fewer
departures to Australia and 400 fewer to the United Kingdom.
October 9th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
“Absolute rubbish. I loath low class Pakeha too. I’m an equal opportunity classist if you like.”
Your disgusting. You prejudice against the people that do societies dirty work and get no thanks for it.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
It is not by birth but by deeds that one is of the highest class.
Buddha
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Tsunami of immigrants? OMG WINSTON! You are my national icon of intolerance and racism . . . and unlike Nightline and the Herald’s dismal offerings at satire, you are actually FUNNY! You have it all . . .the deadpan delivery . . the small man complex . . right down to the perfectly coiffed dyed hair . . little ironed hanky that matches your tie (and probably your socks and undies too I daresay!) PERFECT! Unlike journos attempting to be funny, you could actually GIVE UP YOUR DAY JOB (if you have one !) and go professional . . . am sure you would be a perfect warm up act for the White Supremists KKK annual barnyard dance in the USA (don’t those Americans just love deadpan Kiwis? They just eat up those conchords . . . ) You know what . . they would SOOO LOVE YOU over in Iraq right now too . . . and OMG! Across the Ditch, they’d just love you to death . . you should guest star on Hey Hey its Saturday . . theyve just had some HILARIOUS guys blacken their faces with shoe polish, put on fuzzy wigs and gambol about stage pretending to be black Americans . . the audience just LAUGHED AND LAUGHED AND LAUGHED . .a spot on that show is so meant for you . . . but . . wow . . Tsunami of Immigrants . . wow I just CANT get that precious literary TAONGA out of my head – - and what great timing to use the word TSUNAMI on the same day they’re burying more than a 100 mostly kids and old people in a mass grave in Samoa . . . was this payback for them making you wear a funny crown when you accepted a Samoan chief’s title when you were there last? No Class, No Tolerance and No Foreigners . .. .WINSTON YOU’RE BACK!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Immigration stats here. It is massive.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/statistics/
Sweden a real basket case but here without immigration to NZ we would also be gone. In Sweden they would have had to massive immigration to sustain their welfarism.
The West has asset stripped the third world to keep the welfare state going. Check how many foreign born doctors work in the NHS in the UK.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
tsunami of immigrants . . .OMG you are SO CLEVER AND WITTY SO SATIRICAL . . i just cant get over this precious offering . . . to warn of a TSUNAMI OF IMMIGRANTS on the day they’re burying more than 100 people in samoa (mostly elderly people and little children) who died in last week’s tsunami and whose relations are no doubt samoan immigrants here in NZ . . .YOU ARE THE KING OF RACISM!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
It’s a blot on New Zealand that Winston First gets any traction or airplay at all.
And if there was no immigration none of us would be here.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Poor old Winnie needs to start kicking some arses, shit his speech writer must be a lazy bum. Surely even Winnie must by now realise he is reading regurgitated crap. Having said that I wonder how many people left the country when his poxy little party were boot licking for the corrupt socialist regime. Many more I would say then have immigrated to New Zealand, the mans a fossil and belongs in the museum.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
NZ First broadcast here http://bit.ly/sbdNY
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
You could probably import 10% of all indians tomorrow if you wanted.
This would make the country basically india.
Who wants that?
I like my culture (european). I don’t want us to end up like France/UK/Netherlands. The culture clashes there are enormous.
Why do europeans continually feel ashamed of protecting their own culture?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Brian Smaller,
I’m with Brian on this.
While I never want to see Winston in government again, I believe he is/was one of the most effective opposition MPs this country has ever seen. Winebox enquiry anyone?
And he is one of the few MPs brave enough to address ‘uncontrolled’ immigration. Like Brian, I think many Europeans, Indians and Chinese do contibute to, and assimilate into our society. The problem I have is uncontrolled immigration from Muslims, from countries such as “the Middle east, North Africa, Albania and Pakistan”, who have no intention to assimilate, and view our country as little more than a future enclave of an Islamified globe.
Unless we wake up we are likely to go down the same road as Islamified Sweden, France, Britain, Holland – in fact most of Europe, not to mention the Islamic blight that has already swept through most of the African sub-continent.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Wreck 1080 wote:”Why do europeans continually feel ashamed of protecting their own culture?”
Only some do, Wreck, only some, and they usually vote left as well. Go figure.
Vote:G
October 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
When I need a hand with my kiwifruit I make one phone call and half the Punjab turns up and do a great job.
Without immigrants our horticulture businesses would collapse overnight.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Kris K, I have the same issues with all those who are intolerant of others – Muslim, Christian or anything else.
It is unsustainable to tolerate intolerance – and that is one of the few justifiable invocations of “sustainability”.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
radvad 4:59 pm,
… imagine if a WHOLE one turned up.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Alan Wilkinson 5:03 pm,
The only thing is Alan, Atheism, Socialism, et al have proved to be a dismal failures too.
Of all the man made systems I still think Democracy founded upon Christianity is the best we have. Do you know of a better one historically?
As one of Bob Dylan’s songs states: “You gotta serve somebody”.
Vote:I know who I serve, who do you serve Alan?
October 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
“… imagine if a WHOLE one turned up”
Nice one Kris.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
“Of all the man made systems I still think Democracy founded upon Christianity is the best we have.”
Democracy founded upon eqaulity is our best man made system. Democracy founded upon Christianity is predjudice, elitist and in our modern society, not needed. Politics and religion do NOT mix. We need an entirely secular society now!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
” Politics and religion do NOT mix. We need an entirely secular society now!”
Fine words Tautology. Where do koha payments to placate taniwha fit into your vision of the future or am I a racist for asking?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Duncan Garner just described WP’s speech as “tired, old, and reeked of desperation” and from the little I saw of it I agree. He forgot to dust of the cobwebs – or maybe he just doesn’t have the energy to do that.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
tautokai.baxter 6:18 pm,
Trouble with your view is that Democracy without a Christian base will end up in an Islamic hegemony.
Vote:Like I pointed out earlier – look at Europe.
October 9th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
More like democracy had to break free of the clutches of the church. You say that leftie governments try and control the people, that’s nothing on the control the church had. Control by fear. Some are still trying that. Devil, hell, communists, Moslems. Unchristian, Kris.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Pete George 6:34 pm,
If you mean the Roman Catholic Church, then I agree.
Among those they persecuted and murdered were many Bible believing Christians that refused to embrace Catholocism.
In ‘true’ Christianity there is no fear or control.
While I may tell you about the consequences of not receiving Christ, I will never force you to convert, etc. That’s your choice. But if you prefer not to spend your eternity in hell, I strongly encourage you to consider that Christ died for your sins that you might dwell in heaven with Him. Those without Christ, sad to say, will end up in hell – no ifs, buts, or wherefores.
If I don’t tell you the truth then that would be “unChristian” of me.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
@ Kris K 6:50 pm
If I don’t tell you the truth then that would be “unChristian” of me.
Given your blog name, I assume you mean unKristian. As in “…the consequences of not receiving Kris” and “Those without Kris, sad to say, will end up in hell”.
I must be a strange person to you, Kris K, because I prefer to base my politics on evidence, rather than Middle-Eastern superstition.
And (from another thread) even in your Biblical world, where does it say that gays should be persecuted? I thought Kristianity was meant to be about love for all people – even the “sinners”.
Anyway, on the topic of bigotry, back to Enoch Peters.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
“But if you prefer not to spend your eternity in hell,”
If you try that on me I can and will laugh it off. I trust you don’t scare and try and mind control any kids. That is serious crap. Abuse. No wonder people the church is losing it’s grip.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
“Anyway, on the topic of bigotry, back to Enoch Peters.”
Yeah, Peters is the same, trying to put the shitters up an aging and dwindling flock, trying to keep his wee power trip going.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
“Given your blog name, I assume you mean unKristian. As in “…the consequences of not receiving Kris” and “Those without Kris, sad to say, will end up in hell”.”
Good grief Toad. I have always thought you were a tad warped but after reading that that example of your convoluted mind I am quite certain you are a one hundred percent nutter. When did they let you out?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
here we go again .. if we confined voting to a max of 70 year olds Winney would be gone burger.
Vote:We need a law to stop this whuck wit from politics for ever.
October 9th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
@johnboy 7:12 pm
It helps to put up an argument johnboy, rather than just hurl abuse. Where’s your argument? One that is evidentially based?
Sure, I was taking the piss at Kris K’s post which had no evidential basis to support it but just spouted superstitious nonsense that has been dubiously re-translated over many centuries.
If religious people want a debate, they should put up some actual evidence based on established facts, rather than just quote or misquote the writings of someone who may or may not have personally known Jesus Christ 1,920 – 1,970 years ago.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
“Sure, I was taking the piss at Kris K’s post ”
Not at all Toad you were showing your deepest soul to us all in your post without realising it. When did they let you out?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
We need an entirely secular society now!
Would it be free of the cult of Mother Gaia?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
DPF, help me please.
Pretty please. With sugar on it!
I am being attacked by Kretinous Kristians of the Walton Kind!
What should I do?
Surely you can help me before you go incommunicado on the Barrier.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Kris K, I tolerate your religion. Do you tolerate mine? (And I’m not interested in your God’s opinion.)
Democracy founded on Christianity may or may not cut the mustard in my book. You might recall that Christian Germany elected Hitler and didn’t show much tolerance from then on.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Pete George 7:06 pm,
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
As suspected. No answer. No substance.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
“What should I do?”
Crawl back into the fetid swamp where you came from you silly whinger toady.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Psst… Toady.. use the Pimmel-Werfe manouver! It never fails!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Stop drinking swamp water village greenflee, this thread is about Winny who likes a top shelf or two.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Alan Wilkinson 8:12 pm,
Yes I do personally tolerate your religion, whatever it may be (although I don’t think you’ve tipped your hand in that regard). The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is that each of us ‘serves somebody’, whether we admit it or not.
Pre WWII Germany certainly had it’s issues, and yes, a lax church allowed Hitler to rise to power. Because the church did nothing in resisting evil Democracy quickly gave way to something else, in this case National Socialism.
This was the point I was also trying to make to Cerium/Pete; that if Christianlty sits back and does nothing then evil floods in. In the case of Europe, and likely NZ will follow, with a weak Christianity Islam has flooded in and has already started on a serious take over bid.
If there is a (Christian) spiritual vacuum then evil has little or no spiritual opposition.
Vote:I’m prepared to die for my beliefs, if that’s what it takes, but I wonder how many atheists would be prepared to die for theirs? We all know that most mad Muslims are happy to die for their beliefs. Only thing is, they want to take a whole lot of ‘unbelievers’ with them at the same time. If you want evil you’ve got to go a long way to find something in our modern world to beat Islam.
October 9th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Why are people surprised or excited by this?
Peters knows how to use the MSM. He deliberately uses an emotive phrase guaranteed to get huge publicity. I bet that every politician (except Key who’s only doing it for a hobby or as a public service – take your pick), is envious of his skill.
Naturally Peters’ motivation is elsewhere. He knows the NZF is toast. He’s doing it of course to raise his profile for Auckland. Has it worked? Yes it has.
He’s just put himself second to Banks through this manoeuvre. Watch him build on that in coming months. Of course, he’ll deny it all.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Kris K said: Funnily enough, most young children are more open to the gospel than are adults who have been infected by the world’s values and perversions…
You mean that children are more open to brainwashing than adults are, don’t you Kristian K? [or "Kristian C"]
[Sorry, DPF, although you advocate using the c-word, I consider it misogynist so don't use it, even though I am tempted in this instance.]
Ever heard of Jim Jones Kris K?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
toad 8:01 pm,
Now this will probably be wasted on you Toad, but the Bible actually says something about ‘cretins’:
Possibly ‘pearls before swine’ (another Bible verse by the way), but I have to try.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Kris, good, I’m happy we tolerate each other though we disagree.
I also know some Muslims whom I can have the same tolerant disagreement with. I agree there are too many Muslims who represent an intolerant threat to civilisation and should not be allowed into our country. But I don’t agree either that all Muslims are bad or that all Christians are good.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Wow Kris! That Psa 53:1 is a real knockout!
I hope you don’t wave that one around too often!
That’s one mother of a neutron bomb, a true cretin-crusher, that!
Cor!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Jim Jones was a socialist, toad, and the toast of the American Left until he kool-aid’d everyone.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
I think the nasty attack on Christainity by extreme lefty twits is proof of God.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Alan Wilkinson 8:53 pm,
And I even know a few Atheists who aren’t bad blokes. But I’ve certainly met a few atheists who are evil bastards who I wouldn’t leave my pet dog with in case they had their way with him. Sadly, the evil bastards greatly outnumber the good; and I put this down to them being their own little god in their own little universe. The world is full of self deified individuals who have no ultimate accountability to anyone but themselves. Well, for a little while anyway.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I’m with you on that Dad4J.
And for those with the eyes to see it the Bible certainly has spelt out the state of the world at the end of the age. The Socialists fit nicely into the mold of ‘evil for good, and good for evil’, if the last 9 years were anything to go by.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
How marvelous Kris, that you chose to expound your curious beliefs on a thread with the word, ” xenophobia” in the title.
(Clue for successful posting: Never say, “I’m with you on that Dad4J” It’s the kiss of death for any credibility you may have been enjoying).
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Mr Peters is all talk, racist he may be but not as scary as Mr Brash who would actually have done the evil deeds that he outlined in his maiden speech. The government that Mr Brash is currently working for may not be implementing specifically racist policies (yet) but it is setting up classist policies, cutting night classes to fund private schools etc.
Dont be fooled by Mr Peters’ flagrant racism; he’s not right wing he’s just an ageing egotist with his eye on the main chance.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Kris K said: … the Bible certainly has spelt out the state of the world at the end of the age.
Ah, you are also into the rapture, it seems, Kris K. Really?
Oh, and for the record, I also have observed of the Ten Commandments numbers 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 for all my adult life.
The others I have little time for.
Does that make me “half a Kristian”, or condemned to purgatory?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Krispy Kris do you prefer the kalashnikov or something more modern?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
I’ve never left flossie my sheep with any atheists either.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
“kiss of death for any credibility”
Oh the irony village idiot talking about “credibility”. The greenfly should be hit with raid. Why does Farrar tolerate the flee? Ban the fool.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Village Idiot said: Clue for successful posting: Never say, “I’m with you on that Dad4J” It’s the kiss of death for any credibility you may have been enjoying
Indeed. About once or twice in the last 3 years d4j has posted something I agree with. But the approbrium I would attract from being seen to agree with him on anything has disuaded me from acknowledging it.
No-one (take note, Kris K) should want to be associated with mysogynist and homophobic bigotry.
[Sigh], but some still do. Is that because Krist told them to do it, Kris?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Thank God you are here dad I’m begining to think that you and I are the only normal people here. I was almost considering going over to general debate where Luc killed his last Jew at 6.33.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
village idiot 9:34 pm,
If my back was against the wall, even though I’ve never actually met Dad4J, I’m pretty sure he’d be there with me to the end. Whereas you, VI, would likely be cowering in the corner and no bloody use to anyone.
toad 9:36 pm,
Yep, I believe in the Rapture.
You even keeping all 10 commandments wouldn’t get you into heaven.
And purgatory is just a Catholic myth to aswage sodomite priest’s consciences.
And as much as I’d like to share more of my wisdom with you Toad and VI, I have better things to do. And so I bid you good night.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Stop twisting things toady.Get your facts right.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Kris. If your back was against the wall, you’d be pretty safe.
(You make this too easy!)
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I will how many Kiwibloggers will vote for him?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
If you are not banned for that comment greenfly, then that is that for me Farrar!
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
‘Whereas you, VI, would likely be cowering in the corner and no bloody use to anyone.”
While giving a smartarse commentary about what a smartarse he was of course to all the people who were not listening to the smartarse.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
@johnboy 9:30 pm
You are probably lucky DPF is incommunicado. That post should deserve demerits too. Associating atheists with bestiality is as bad, if not worse, than associating homosexuals with paedophiles (which was what Kris K got pinged 30 demerits for by DPF).
Pity DPF didn’t give me blog moderation rights while he’s on the Barrier.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Johnboy, I’m going to tell your Dad on you. You have not improved your comprehension skills.
Kris K, thanks for confirming you are a nutter. I guess you don’t read Dawkins.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Maybe the Gweens and NZF could go into coalition. Both are fans of economic protectionism, social tribalism and generally spouting shit.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
toad – your disgusting mate greenfly is an insult to every sane blogger.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
“Pity DPF didn’t give me blog moderation rights while he’s on the Barrier.”
I doubt if he would give a turd like you a squirt of his air freshner.
(Oh fuck that is 50 demerits for associating shit with climate change believers)
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Dr Brash IMO is a very decent humane man. Trouble with some people, william, is that they can’t understand why conservative economists believe what they do. Such people seem to automatically hallucinate that conservative economists are like the Bankers of the 1920′s cartoons. Brash is not, never has been like that, but you have to understand why they think as they do, in order to “get it.”
If you’re interested in understanding that perspective, then I suggest you google “Commanding Heights” It’s six hours long but very relevant to your comment.
Of course, if you’re just another idiot lefty who isn’t even interested in understanding but smugly imagines they know it all, then fuck you.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
“Johnboy, I’m going to tell your Dad on you.”
You better be nuttier than the Jews and Christians you hate so much and call up your spirits buddy cause my dad died in 1984 and even if you could raise him you would get no reply. He had no time for tossers.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Oh shit, my post about a Gween-NZF coalition was number 666 – a sign, surely?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Luc, 2000 years from now, no-one will have heard about Dawkins but they’ll still know intimate details about Jesus.
If he was just a political figure or even an imaginary character, then how come all such political and imaginary figures since that time have faded into obscurity, whilst the teachings of Jesus remain vivid and alive amongst billions of adherents and in the consciousness of billions more?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
“Luc, 2000 years from now, no-one will have heard about Dawkins”
Luc, 2 years from now, no-one will have heard about Luc
and even less will care
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
d4j said: your disgusting mate greenfly is an insult to every sane blogger.
IMO, d4j, greenfly/village idiot has the most wicked sense of humour of any blogger other than Danyl at the Dim-Post.
It is a pity he doesn’t seem to have the time to have his own blog. In a nutshell, he is often very funny. You are boring – even more so than me – (and often myogynist to boot, which is why I often have a go at you) d4j. Plus you often fail to provide any argument to support your contention, but just abuse someone else on a thread.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
You are obviously a claytons ‘have a goer’ Turd. When you have a go it is like it never happened.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
“IMO, d4j, greenfly/village idiot has the most wicked sense of humour of any blogger other than Danyl at the Dim-Post.”
……but then again you’re fairly easily amused Toad. Maybe its his english sense of humour that appeals to you?
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Johnboy
Nice to make the acquaintance of such a well-rounded personality who confuses fact with emotion. Readers will note that I do not accuse opponents of hate. Racism, for example, is often misguided altruism. But it does need to be called. According to you I hate 2.3 billion people( including all my own family), plus 12 million odd Jews. Why didn’t you include the 1.4 billion Muslims? They all believe in the same God.
Reid
For thousands and thousands of years, I honestly don’t know how many, in Palestine certainly maybe 5000 and more years ( I must do some research on that one) humans were Pagan. Eventually, it was supplanted by Judaism, then Christianity and Islam developed. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to think monotheism will last another 2000 years. But we will never know, will we? My answer as to why the myth of Jesus has lasted so well: human imagination. Think Harry Potter. If whomever invented Jesus did it today: instant billionaire status! Poor bugger.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Nothing emotional about my summation of you Luc at all. You just hate Jews full stop. You can couch it in any language you like but when all is said and done you don’t like the Jews. Why don’t you just be honest and stand up for what you believe in and say it. Hold a rally perhaps, get some followers to wave a banner or two. Do some research into bloodlines and superior genetic characteristics. Or you could just grow up perhaps.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Luc:
I like to think I might, but not sure about you, Luc.
Crikey Luc. Sometimes you’re very astute. In this, you’re not. How can I help. Think a bit more about the profundity and dynamics of why the Jesus “myth” has survived in such a vivid format in the human consciousness whereas such comparatively trivial matters as the rise and fall of empires and great leaders and unspeakably traumatic epochs which at the time seared their being into the minds of those living at the time, have passed away, whereas Jesus hasn’t.
I don’t really think Harry Potter cuts the mustard. Sorry about that, but there we are.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
I think I might, but not sure about you, Luc.
Hang on reid, if you religious nutters are right, won’t I be burning for eternity in Hell? If so, thank God for pizza!
And I think you underrate HP, but that’s just my opinion. I prefer to stick to facts.
johnboy
you ask me to stand up and be honest about what I believe in. I try not to do belief, but I do subscribe to the modern view of equal human rights, including the rights of indigenous peoples and redressing historical wrongs, where possible and practicable.
Vote:If that is contrary to your prejudices, that’s your problem, not mine.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
You still haven’t said you don’t hate the Jews Luc. Come on now its not that hard to be honest. Pretty please Luccie. Big smile now just be honest———.
Vote:October 9th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
That might be what some religious nutters say Luc, but that don’t make it so and it doesn’t mean that’s what the Bible says.
I’d suggest you do some research for if someone or something authoritative said you were not only going to die but would be in eternal pain, why wouldn’t you take that more seriously than if some human doctor only said you had something minor like terminal cancer?
Luc, as you say who can predict but IMO Harry Potter will disappear from human consciousness within 50 years, it’s a passing cliche just like the Dan Brown cliches which will come and go in a short space and time.
Jesus is unique, always has been, to this day. For example, off the top of your head, name an author read by billions today that lived +/- 200 years within Jesus’ time. I predict the only ones you can without googling, are those who wrote the Bible.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Johnboy
No it’s not hard.
I don’t hate Jews. I want Jews in historic Palestine and, indeed, the world, to live in peace and equality with their Muslim and Christian and Buddhist and Zoroastrian and Hindu etc etc and atheist neighbours. And I want Muslims in historic Palestine and, indeed, the world, to live in peace and equality with their Jewish etc etc etc neighbours.
reid,
no googling required
Jesus is not unique. Confucius proposed the Golden Rule 500 years, give or take, before Jesus and he is still pretty important in China and philosophy in general.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 12:23 am
Hey guys,
Isn’t this all bit off topic in this thread?
I suggest we move to General Debate. General Debate is just the best thing DPF could have done. Pity Red Alert can’t do the same. They probably can’t see it, but it would help them tremendously.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 12:24 am
Good point Luc, but what are the relative numbers: how many know what Confucius taught in detail vs. the detail others know of Jesus’ teachings?
P.S. Cool, will move to general.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 3:13 am
One thing that maybe Winnie got right – I’ve met lots of people, English, Chinese, whatever, who get NZ residency with the single objective of getting to Australia. The ease with which thay can do that shows an abuse of our system.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
I nearly lost the will to live about half way through the comments
- but just thought I would re-iterate that immigrants bringing in “aged relatives” cannot get access to the NZ Super for them. Not that most people would go to the effort of emigrating here just to get such a paltry amount of money out of the NZ Taxpayers.
Most of my experience is from listening to migrants fro teh UK obvoiusly, so maybe for people from other countries it would be worth the effort – but I doubt it.
Also, when sponsoring family (whether parents or siblings) we have to sign a declaration that our families will NOT access ANY government benefits for 2 years after they gain residence, and when sponsoring parents we have to prove that we have a high enough income to support them, and we have to declare that we will provide accomodation and living costs if necessary.
This is actually not true for migrants who come on a PR visa, and then lose thier jobs. They can access benefits, as can migranst on PR Visas, who can access working for families.
HTH
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Mike S -
That also works the other way round as well. For some people it is easier to get a job in Australia than here, so they go to OZ for a few years an bounce here. We were advised to do that – but the thought of having to live in Australia for 2 years was just a bit nauseating.
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
MP’s: Sponging off the NZ taxpayer for 3+ years, with cut price travel, all expenses for living in Wellington taken care of, allowances for this that and the other. They get to vote on my own pay rise, and enshrine in law future benefits in various forms including a final salary pension not measured against average income.
I can agree with Winston on one thing;
“This sort of scam –and others like it – must end.”
Vote:October 10th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Bake a bigger pie. It’s a principle I picked up from a book I was reading a while ago.(The Power of Nice by Linda Kaplan & Robin Koval, which is happily available via Google books for free!) NZIS are indeed baking a bigger pie, I should be fair and give them credit. Current pensioners are not living off of the contributions they have made through their working lives – that paid for the pensioners at the time. No, it’s those contributing taxes now who are paying for the current set of pensioners to eat their pie. The more taxpayers there are, the bigger the pie. So, if anything Grey Power should be demanding NZIS increase the number of emigrants allowed into the country. Since those are the people who are paying for them to have pie.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:35 am
When you use the phrase “labor shortage” or “skills shortage” you’re speaking in a sentence fragment. What you actually mean to say is: “There is a labor shortage at the salary level I’m willing to pay.” That statement is the correct phrase; the complete sentence and the intellectually honest statement.
Employers speak about shortages as though they represent some absolute, readily identifiable lack of desirable services. Price is rarely accorded its proper importance in their discussion.
If you start raising wages and improving working conditions, and continue doing so, you’ll solve your shortage and will have people lining up around the block to work for you even if you need to have huge piles of steaming manure hand-scooped on a blazing summer afternoon.
Re: Shortage caused by employees retiring out of the workforce: With the majority of retirement accounts down about 50% or more, most people entering retirement age are working well into their sunset years. So, you won’t be getting a worker shortage anytime soon due to retirees exiting the workforce.
Okay, fine. Some specialized jobs require training and/or certification, again, the solution is higher wages and improved benefits. People will self-fund their re-education so that they can enter the industry in a work-ready state. The attractive wages, working conditions and career prospects of technology during the 1980’s and 1990’s was a prime example of people’s willingness to self-fund their own career re-education.
There is never enough of any good or service to satisfy all wants or desires. A buyer, or employer, must give up something to get something. They must pay the market price and forego whatever else he could have for the same price. The forces of supply and demand determine these prices — and the price of a skilled workman is no exception. The buyer can take it or leave it. However, those who choose to leave it (because of lack of funds or personal preference) must not cry shortage. The good is available at the market price. All goods and services are scarce, but scarcity and shortages are by no means synonymous. Scarcity is a regrettable and unavoidable fact.
Shortages are purely a function of price. The only way in which a shortage has existed, or ever will exist, is in cases where the “going price” has been held below the market-clearing price.
Vote: