Cactus and Whale on Act putsch
Cactus blogs:
The political strategical stupidity in a coup is astounding in a party of 5 MP’s, 80% of whom are reliant for their place in Parliament solely on the electoral seat of the guy they plotted against as the party didn’t reach the 5% threshold. For that, the coup plotters deserve a slight fail. It would certainly have made a Constitutional sensation if there was a lost by-election and a Party was left with 4 MP’s having neither breached the 5% threshold or won an electorate seat. I can’t find out through internet resources as to what the outcome of that would actually be. A snap election with National polling on 60% the most likely outcome in hindsight.
For those who wonder, the ACT List MPs would remain in Parliament even if there was a by-election and ACT lost Epsom to National.
While Sir Roger is around he is a constant nuisance for anyone leading the Party. Heather Roy needed Sir Roger Douglas as co-leader or supporter as much as a hooker needs genital herpes to perform her job.
Heh Cactus has such a lovely turn of phrase.
All I have to say on the conclusion of the matter is that the coup plotters must now all fall on their swords, resign as MP’s and let the next candidates on the list: Hilary Calvert, Peter Tashkoff and John Ormond have a turn. I have no idea how any of those three would run as MP’s versus Boscawen, Douglas and Roy but anything must be better than a trio of turkeys who voted for an early Christmas. No idea what happened with David Garrett but one gives him the benefit of the doubt that he may very well have been at the pub at the time of the plotting.
Heh. I suspect Cactus is not the only ACT member upset with those Caucus members who thought a coup which would result in ACT ending up out of Parliament next election was a good idea.
Whale chips in:
Cactus is right when she says that the only thing worse than a leadership coup in a small party is a failed leadership coup. Especially so when you only need to get three out of five. …
Well traitors are traitors and there is only one solution. Death. I don’t mean physical death, I mean political death. The three of them are List MPs and the party could quite easily give them all the boot. …
I won’t repeat Whale’s suggested punishment for the person who leaked the putsch to the media!
December 20th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Again, ACT’s leader and deputy leader are appointed by the board, not by the caucus.
December 20th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I presume the push to roll Hide was predicated on the party being able to win more than 5% without him.
Perhaps if Sir Roger were leader Dr Brash could be convinced to come on board as finance spokesperson?
In any case, Cactus Kate is going to be left even more red faced than usual when Hide loses Epsom.
December 20th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
What’s your point Peter? A coup can be instigated at any level of the Party.
December 20th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
STC – a little bubble bursting is required, Sir Roger is actually far more unpopular electorally than any other MP I can think of at present. The Nats know this and will never allow Sir Roger a position as a Minister. ACT haven’t polled over 5% the last two elections and won’t while the Nats stay in power. If the Nats are not in power then ACT is limited in what it can even have a chance of achieving.
The only way Sir Roger could be more electorally unpopular is adding Don Brash, failed National Party leader into the mix.
While there is no issue with their policy ideas they are just unelectable but well done, with that sort of personnel strategy you are a shoe in for a place on the ACT Board. A 72 year old added to a 69 year old as the future of your party.
December 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
It seem that accountability, integrity, and honestly are characteristics that Kate expects from every MP
….apart from Rodney….
There are some people that I can accept as cheer leaders, Cactus is not one of them.
December 20th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
“The only way Sir Roger could be more electorally unpopular is adding Don Brash, failed National Party leader into the mix.”
You’re not reading ACT’s base very well Kate.
Epsom voters would respond well to Brash as a candidate, especially if Key keeps behaving like a politician instead of a reformer. Who cares about the rest of the country?
December 20th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Douglas as leader and Brash as Finance spokesman? Is this Act’s cunning plan to pick up the GreyPower vote from Winston?
December 20th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Reid – the voters of Epsom happily voted for Richard Worth prior to National instructing them to strategically vote for Hide and Epsom. Now really how credible is it for National to instruct National Epsom voters to vote for their 69 (+ by 2011) year old former failed leader of the National Party?
December 20th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Cactus Kate also comments that “all they’ve achieved in the way of a higher vote in 2011 is one for FPP.”
NZ First, Progressives, United Future and Act have all benefitted from MMP’s “Trigger Seats,” but I would be interested to know if any polling has been done to indictate whether voters would prefer not to have them.
December 20th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
” Now really how credible is it for National to instruct National Epsom voters to vote for their 69 (+ by 2011) year old former failed leader of the National Party? ”
I would say it is just as credible to ask them to put their faith in a failed leader of the ACT party.
Come on Kate, you would not accept this sort of troughing from any other MP so why do you take it from Rodney?
Hide is a clown, yes, I was prepared to put up with him just as long as he kept the National socialists honest but he has remained silent, I also think you over estimate just how popular Hide is, many of us voted ACT in spite of Hide, many of us voted for ACT because of Sir Roger.
Hide and Roy have been silenced by the baubles of office, both of them are deserving of your scorn.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Big Bruv
Hide isn’t planning on bringing down the current coalition government.
Isn’t Sunday your day with the kids? Less trolling, more parenting.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Cactus
So we can expect to see no more posts from you about troughing MP’s and pinko’s who have their fingers in the till?
One of the things I despise most about the left is their hypocrisy, seems that we have a few on the right who share that disease.
But hey, its OK, cos Rodney is a mate of Kate’s.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Big Bruv, you clearly missed my post titled “Bad Rodney No Biscuit” where I covered these issues:
http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2009/10/bad-rodney-no-biscuit.html
Unlike yourself I don’t feel the need to cover the same things over and over again.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Kate, given their previous distressing experiences with lightweight Nats Fletcher and Worth I don’t think Epsom voters paid much attention to National’s “instructions” rather I put their vote down to rational calculation. ACT has the best ideas in Parliament and unlike most electorates, Epsom voters are quite capable of discerning the difference between propaganda and fact.
I don’t think Rodney’s antics re: his mid-life issues have endeared him to his electorate and I think the reason he won in 2008 was more because of a strong desire to implant a spine into this govt than strong support for this particular man.
So in summary, Epsom has been badly served with three flakes: Fletcher, Worth and Hide and I think they’re thirsting for a change. I think the Epsom electorate understands economic reality better than most and a competition between Brash and Hide would be a foregone conclusion in favour of Brash.
I don’t think Brash is too old although Douglas clearly is and it’s a shame the latter needed to lift himself out of contented retirement simply so the ACT brand could survive but nevertheless the fact he did shows him as the true patriot he in fact has always been despite much ignorant commentary to the contrary.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Reid, keep digging. So you blame Rodney’s “mid-life issues” and you want to replace him with hmmm…..Don “Juan” Brash? Strategical genius.
Simple matter is that the National Party’s current administration will not and cannot be seen to be dealing with their failed last leader Don Brash and a relic of the 80’s such as Roger Douglas.
ACT are a minority party in a coalition government. Realistically how much influence can you see them having to insert this so called “spine” into National who currently poll around 60%? You reckon ACT MP’s will ever be allowed near the Finance portfolio? Douglas or Brash. Dream on.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Kate, as-is, you seriously don’t imagine Rodney will survive in Epsom in 2011?
I don’t think they’ll have a choice so who cares. I think National will need ACT because National’s base will split because they will have been too gutless in doing what’s clearly necessary and their current coalition partners won’t be able to stomach the 2011 campaign policies.
Quite agree, but my comment was made in the context of the sentiment prevailing at the time of the last election. Try not to obfuscate, and where did I mention Brash for finance?
December 20th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
You are being particularly aggressive tonight Kate, have we touched a raw nerve, or have you run out of wine waiters to abuse?
Reid is dead right, the people of Epsom would dump Rodney in a heartbeat if the Nat’s stood a decent candidate, I suspect they would also rather have Dr Brash than a man going through a mid life crisis and more interested in ministerial perks than doing the job he was elected to do.
Sadly, Rodney has become a joke.
December 20th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Cactus, now you know why I could never contemplate joining the ACT Party. Some excellent people surrounded by a buzzing cloud of dimwits.
December 20th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Adolf
So you are going to remain an unthinking cheer leader of the National Socialist party?
Remind me again how they differ from Klark and Kullen.
December 20th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Actually Rodney can have Epsom for as long as he cares to have it because the National voters in that electorate aren’t as dim as the commenters on this thread.
Cactus is actually a fair bit more politically astute than any above. Roger Douglas is the poison chalice of NZ Politics and Don Brash, nice chap and all that is the second most demonised. Those are the facts. That is the politics. Like it or not.
Wailing here like a bunch of fricken morons cry babies won’t change the simple fact that they are dirty traitors who turned on the person who got them into parliament in the first place.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
What Whale said.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Whale
Calling people who expect an elected MP to live by the same demands he made of other MP’s a ‘traitor’ is an interesting concept.
Are you really suggesting that the other ACT MP’s should turn a blind eye to Rodney’s rort of tax payer dollars?
You are correct in what you say about Douglas and Brash being demonised, however, given that they have been demonised by the pinko media I would have thought you would be the last person to take any notice.
It seems to have escaped you but Rodney is now as demoinsed as Brash and Douglas, I fail to see how you dismiss Brash and Douglas yet continue to support Hide.
The difference between Brash and Hide is this, Hide is seen by many as a middle aged fool in the midst of a mid life crisis whereas Dr Brash is still seen by many as the man who represents what they want to see in our MP’s, and lets be honest here, Brash is and will allays remain far more popular with the electorate than Hide.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
BB you are deluded. I called the three turncoat MPs traitors. There are far greater rorts of taxpayer dollars than anything Rodney has done. You seem also to have forgotten that Roger Douglas was also feeding at the trough and in fact his troughing is until the day he dies, inside or outside of parliament.
Rodney is far from demonised. Go walk the streets of Epsom. My middle aged mates reckong Rodney is “the man” for being able to pull a chick like Louise.
You confuse Brash’s popularity when he was in National as personal popularity. It is not uncommon for people to fall for this trap. MPs themselves often fall for it, it’s called believing your own bullshit. The moment they go it alone because they think they are popular they come a gutsa, very few make it. In fact I can think of only three. Winston Peters, Tariana Turia and jim Anderton but only Winston did what he did because he thought he as more popular than God. Tariana did it out of integrity to her people and Jim Anderton to create the Alliance. Oh I forgot Peter Dunne the perpetual Revenue Minister.
Every single other MP that tried to go it alone or form another party crashed and burned once they lost the machine of the party behind them. The same would apply to Don Brash. Plus it is fanciful dreaming on your part to even think that Don Brash even wants to come back. Firstly he would have to resign as a National Party member then he would have to join Act.
You guys are so far off the political compass it is no wonder that Act polls as it does. All mouth and no do, Rodney is actually doing, he is making a significant difference in Local Body politics.
December 20th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
But, I don’t think anyone is as electable as you big bruv, or for that matter redbaiter.
Legends in your own lunchboxes.
December 20th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Whale
“The same would apply to Don Brash. Plus it is fanciful dreaming on your part to even think that Don Brash even wants to come back.”
That, I will admit is the fatal flaw in my argument..lol
But seriously, given that Rodney is not better than the rest of the thieving bastards it does leave me wondering who the hell I should support.
Apart from the joy I take hearing the left scream in Auckland there is very little that Hide has actually done or even bloody tried to do for those who voted for the man.
Neville Key cancelled the tax cuts to a rousing chorus of silence from Rodney, did Neville threaten to take away Rodney’s perks?
December 20th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Big bruv
May I suggest in terms of voting in 2011 that you quit supporting National and ACT and join Labour and become an active Party member, knocking on as many doors and speaking out at as many public meetings as you can.
That’s gotta be worth a few thousands votes for National and ACT right there.
December 20th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Kate
You can suggest what ever you like, I imagine like most of your ‘contributions’ they will be seen by many as the semi mad rantings of a spoilt brat.*
You continue to cheer lead and I will continue to try and keep the bastards honest.
* Not included in the semi mad rantings is your coverage of Manchester United and Lord Ferguson of Govan which remain first rate.
December 20th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Big Bruv
ACT’s achievements in a year (in no particular order) –
Set the goal of catching Australia by 2025, detailed the income gap (a whopping $64,000 a year for a family of four) and developed the policies needed to close the gap through the 2025 taskforce
ACC to be opened up to choice and competition (Item 9 in our campaign 20 Point Plan)
Substantial reform of local government underway (item 3 in our campaign 20 Point Plan)
Major rationalisation and reform of local government in Auckland
No race-based seats on new Auckland council
Rewrite of Cabinet Manual to protect private property rights, freedom to contract, and improve law making, plus Regulatory Responsibility Bill reviewed and discussions with National underway (Item 5, 20 PP)
Introduced new scholarship scheme – Aspire scholarships –a first foot in the door of school choice (Item 7, 20 PP), and expect an excellent report from the Inter-Party Working group on Education.
Work well-advanced on the Sentencing and Parole Bill to tougher sentencing of the worst recidivist offenders in our community, i.e. three strikes (Item 17 of 20 PP).
The big backward step and failure, no doubt, was National and the Maori Party keeping the ETS and inserting “the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” into the legislation.
An extra five ACT MPs would have fixed that
December 20th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
BB
I will take semi-mad anything in abuse over your completely worthless internet presence which is nothing short of an utterly mad troll limited to traipsing between the fences and gates of the Kiwiblog farm.
December 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Your both bloody wrong (and right).
Hide is seen by the electorate as a buffoon and ACT will never progress under his “leadership” but Brash is just as bloody bad and, in my opinion, cost NZ three more years of Clark and co.
ACT need someone fresh, strong and up until now not associated with the party publicly.
Preferably someone already successful who can do for ACT what Bob Jones did for the NZ Party in 1983/4.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Another dreamer living in the past.
“ACT need someone fresh, strong and up until now not associated with the party publicly”.
And the All Blacks need a back-up the quality of Dan Carter at 1st V and Richie McCaw at flanker……these people aren’t just sitting around waiting to be asked MT_Tinman!
As for Bob Jones doing for the NZ Party, right, so question – when did the NZ Party actually win a seat in Parliament? And how long did it actually last as a Party?
Times have changed.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
“semi mad rantings of a spoilt brat” – not a bad description Bruv.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
My middle aged mates reckong Rodney is “the man” for being able to pull a chick like Louise.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
” My middle aged mates reckong Rodney is “the man” for being able to pull a chick like Louise. ”
Well your mates must be a right pack of shallow fuckwits. No wonder they were so content with the womanising drongo Worth for so long.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Bruv, you have no more kept the bastards honest as the bludger down the street. What precisely have you done to ensure that.
On the other hand both Cactus and I have an internet presence far bigger than most newspapers in New Zealand, we put our names where our mouths are and what’s more we do it for nothing. Now that is keeping the bastards honest.
Close the gate when you move to the next paddock will you.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
ACT says dump ETS
Sunday, 20, Dec, 2009 2:22PM
Here ya go Bruv.
ACT says the outcome of the Copenhagen climate change summit has handed the Government a golden opportunity to dump the Emissions Trading Scheme.
Prime Minister John Key and his entourage, including ministers Tim Groser and Nick Smith, are on their way home from Denmark after a limited, and non-binding agreement was reached to reduce emissions.
ACT’s Energy spokesman John Boscowan says the Copenhagen Accord agreed yesterday gives New Zealand a chance to go back to the drawing board on climate change issues. He says the ETS loads costs onto exporters, which their competitors in Australia and the United States do not have to deal with.
Mr Boscowan says the simplest thing to do would be to repeal Labour’s Emissions Trading Scheme and start again.
Bruv’s havin a bad night.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Ahhh Master Baiter turns up. And what have you done to keep the bastards honest? Huh?
Did you front a campaign to get rid of the Electoral Finance Act?….No, but I did.
Did you call for Richard Worth to be sacked long before anyone else did on National Television?….No
Have you ticked off members of your own party, if you even have one anywhere publicly except here at the troll farm….No
Do you have traction anywhere at any time? (Not including when you slip on the velcro gloves for play time with Baaaabara)….No
STFU, or put your money where your mouth is.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Dime I prefer the “perpetually drunken teenager” description as would any woman above the age of 19.
“Spoilt brat” implies someone else is funding my lifestyle and I am demanding they pay me more money for no apparent effort on my part which definitely can never be used to describe myself.
The description is perfectly valid however for the bludgers who comment on Kiwiblog and have to use another person’s well-established forum (being David Farrar’s) to gain attention for their abuse of others who go to the effort of creating relevant social discourse under the labour of their own blog.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
so youre saying we should called whale oil “spoiled brat”? after all, someone else is funding his lifestyle!
the arrogance of you two astounds me. i dont even know who the hell you are.
ive seen a few chartable links to your “blog” provided by DPF, but thats it. At least whale has some credentials.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Dime – an anonymous comments person typing nonsense into cyberspace is wondering who the hell I am? Oh please. Do you guys all get together at the milking shed on the troll farm and have a circle jerk every night?
December 20th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
As an Epsom voter I resent people telling me how and why I voted for Rodney Hide. I certainly was never aware of an instruction from the Nats; I actually believed they wanted Worth elected. Hide was simply a better man for the job. And the Nats got the list vote.
While it is true that Rodney has let his cock rule his head let it be said that this is a common failing amongst politicians and he now has a chance to redeem himself. The success or failure of the Super City set up will be his Waterloo.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
actually, we do. want to eat the biscuit when we are done? probably not the first time.
id be surprised if im known as a troll on here..
December 20th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
trout – yea i remember being frustrated that national wasnt instructing people to vote rodney.
i did manage to convert my elderly aunty from labour to rodney though. go me
December 20th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
” STFU, or put your money where your mouth is. ”
The voters of Remuera kept Worth and before that Christine Fletcher and Douglas Graham in a job when they were all useless fuckwits who would have been better employed picking up bits of paper with those little pointy stick things.
As an electorate, they’re no better than the welfare addicted socialist fuckwits voting in Mt Albert. You think they’d ever elect anybody that was going to make a difference to the inwardly collapsing black hole that is government in NZ you’d better buy a ticket on the next pig piloted intergalactic space craft.
If Rod Hide ever spoke out publicly in line with what he really believes, they’d drop him like a hot rock.
Rod Hide might be able to do something to save NZ if he wasn’t allied with the hapless poseurs that control National or beholden to the drongo voters of Epsom.
As it is, with most of NZ and it politicians in a complete state of denial as to the country’s real financial future, as far as Rod Hide, Don Brash or John key or any damn politician goes, its all Titanic deck chairs stuff.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Rodney
“An extra five ACT MPs would have fixed that”
Well perhaps if you had not helped yourself to my tax dollars and the treasured baubles of office you may well have got them in 2011.
As for your list of ‘achievements’ can you please let me know at what stage they will do us any good (those who do not live in Auckland) and by the way, where are my bloody tax cuts?
Kate
“I will take semi-mad anything in abuse over your completely worthless internet presence”
Yep, where would the internet be without your weekly “Where’s Ricardo?” posts.
Whale
“Bruv, you have no more kept the bastards honest as the bludger down the street. What precisely have you done to ensure that.”
About as much as you, sure, banging off a few posts every day on your blog (which is first rate) might make you feel like you are doing something but I would suggest that you may well have overstated your influence.
Right, as much as I have enjoyed our little chat I have to get some sleep, some of us have to pay to keep the troughers in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Dime I am sure the elderly Aunt is proud of how you talk about women, I’m picking you would be FIFO in terms of the soggy biscuit. Sound like you have a touch of the PE’s.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
well its not like im speaking to a lady…
youre also the one that bought up “circle jerk”, just figured youd been involved in one. my bad.
amyway, this is adding nothing to the thread so ill stop
youre welcome to say hi in the general discussion though.
December 20th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Dime, interesting choice of a name, reflects your net worth I suspect, or the value of your comments.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Dime you are speaking on an internet forum. Learn the lingo. A circle jerk on the internet is known in the urban dictionary as a “pompous, self-congratulatory discussion where little to no progress is made”. You started blagging on about group male masturbation, which doesn’t excite most women in the slightest.
If you read what you have typed into cyberspace on this thread you will find you haven’t actually added one single thing to the thread which is about the ACT coup and mine and Whale’s posts on it (which is why Whale and I have entered the thread), than you think you got your elderly aunt to vote for Rodney then credited yourself with a happy face.
Off-point and inflammatory = yet another quality troll from the Kiwiblog farm.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Pwnd by the Bitch from Honkers…..you know you are winning when they run like chickens.
Run Dime Run
Run Baiter Run
Run Bruv Run
December 20th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
So was it Rodder’s youthful mid fifties good looks that pulled a woman or taxpayer at that time funded trips overseas.
Nothing like having some old fool pay for your ticket to your brother’s weddings.
Rodney, you are in your mid fifties, well past middle age, trying to kid yourself that 55 is the new 30 is only fooling yourself.
But you are welcome to come down to Central to try out for the team, trying to play hooker with your lack of size and old age would be amusing to watch.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
That doesn’t sound very on-topic and progressing the discussion (not you grumps). Trying to run the opposition down? Are things a bit quiet at home tonight?
Blogs are as reliant on posters as they are on the hosts. You know, the chiefs need a few Indians sort of thing.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Yea Whale, watch me run. As bruv said – some people have work in the morning.
The sad thing is, I actually agree with both of you arrogant bloggers re Douglas and Brash. I love both men, but their time is up.
IMHO the ACT! party need to rebrand. They have been demonised by the media and most people I speak to, who dont follow politics closely, think they are right wing nutbars.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Wow impressive flame war in my absence.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Pete
Whale and I are only here because DPF cut and pasted this morning from our blogs. I do not make it a habit otherwise to read comments on this blog as by in large they are dreadful, often physically abusive and violent and almost always degenerating off the topic that is originated by the host.
Blogs are reliant entirely on the host and then readers that host can attract. Actually readers aren’t important to blogs as witnessed by Tumeke unique views rankings where you will see hosts that have blogged for years without any care that only a handful of people actually read it.
Comments are an unnecessary distraction from the point of blogging – the host and their posts.
Many of the comments here on this thread are just personal abuse at Whale and myself, naturally they will be answered. Clearly this upsets those who make them and their ilk who are used to a free reign abusing the crap out of anyone they like without respecting the time and effort all hosts who have a blog actually make to create something they then freeload off for their own jolly’s.
CK
December 20th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Funny that, most people I speak to think the likes of Redbaiter and Big Bruv are the nutjobs.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
“Wow impressive flame war in my absence. ” – well, it is Christmas
December 20th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
That 13,000 majority in Epsom is a lot of buffoons MT Tinman. And ACT got 125% more votes in 2008 than in 2005 under his leadership.
Really, some people here need to go back to their Playstations and Lego.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Dime – “I love both men, but their time is up.”
Thank you for confirming your latent homosexuality and fascination with older men.
You’ll make someone a fine catamite one day.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Blimey, the Rotundasaur has lost control of Trollasic park.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
” Clearly this upsets those who make them and their ilk who are used to a free reign abusing the crap out of anyone they like without respecting the time and effort all hosts who have a blog actually make to create something they then freeload off for their own jolly’s.
Boo hoo. Nobody forces you to do it. Get a life whinger. Heat kitchen.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
” Funny that, most people I speak to think the likes of Redbaiter and Big Bruv are the nutjobs.”
So you speak to Progressives who are as fucked in the head as you are. Got any real news??
December 20th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
whaleoil – you make it sound like being a gay guy is something bad? you’re a strange dude.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
” Blimey, the Rotundasaur has lost control of Trollasic park.”
What are you doing here Yellowback? I thought you only turned up where you could delete posts you disagree with.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Double confirmation, glutton for punishment eh?
December 20th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Rodney since you were here earlier and on the assumption you’ll monitor, WTF have you been thinking for the past several years?
In my reading you’ve lost so much of what you and ACT once had, in terms of credibility, in terms of moral leadership potential. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is what ACT means, both in principle and in purpose.
I voted for you in both 2002 and 2005 elections when I lived in Epsom, believe me I’m not being disingenuous, I’m just genuinely seeking to understand what the ACT calculation is, because from a potential and past ACT voter, I’m not seeing it right now.
The only reason I’m asking you to explain it on a public forum is because I know that if I’m thinking these thoughts others are too, and even if we’re not ACT members, we’re potential ACT voters, and that should give you cause for concern even at this point in the electoral cycle.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Ahh, look what turned up – abuse from that Stalinist, Redbaiter. Don’t forget to wipe the spit off your screen before you shut down.
Anyway, haven’t you got a Bingo night on tonight?
December 20th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
wow the nancy boy that cant get outta bed is a homophobe.
this might just be the saddest thread ever. i wont go off topic again. if you ever want to chat though whale – ill be lurking in the general debate
chin up son!
December 20th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Reid, “moral leadership?”. Care to explain what you mean by that?
December 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
We will probably see a bit more of rod beater now school has finished for the year.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
“Ahh, look what turned up – abuse from that Stalinist, Redbaiter. Don’t forget to wipe the spit off your screen before you shut down.”
Jeez Gooner. That’s not even half a good try. I’ve read that same old commie shit from a thousand lame leftist losers. Pathetic schoolboy. Its takes a special kind of dumbfuck to whine about abuse when they’re the one that started it.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I thought you were pissing off an hour ago Dime.
9.54am -”amyway, this is adding nothing to the thread so ill stop
youre welcome to say hi in the general discussion though”.
Still not adding anything.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
wow a lurker as well, classic homo behaviour.
I love the word homophobe literally it means “fear of man” of course the poofs absconded with that word too. One thing I am not afraid of is poofs.
And I am not a homophobe.
Chin up son? you sound like Freddie Mercury about to give his latest root a facial.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
” We will probably see a bit more of rod beater ”
Who is ” we” Yellowback? You and the usual imaginary crowd of cheering supporters? Brain damaged country hick.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
“I thought you were pissing off an hour ago Dime.”
He probably thought he better stick around while he’s getting the kind of attention he’s never had ever before.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Why do ACT only need 5 extra MP’s, apart from national losing 5?
December 20th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
” So what’s your reason for sticking around then Red? ”
Same as always.
Getting under the skin of dull witted and lame Progressives like you.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Hey Gooner, are you still trying to get queer marriages and free access to party pills to the top of the ACT agenda?
December 20th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Hey I’ve got an idea; Flame others for having their snouts in the trough and say they shouldn’t just say sorry and move on – they should resign.
Then first chance you get stick your own nose in the trough, come out covered in slops and and say sorry, vomit the feast back up and move on. Brilliant.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Red, why do refer to homosexuals as queer in a pejorative sense?
December 20th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Self loathing?
December 20th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Hey Gooner- Brokeback Bill just said something nasty about queers. Quick, give your comrades at the HRC a call.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:03 am
I’ve been a member of ACT for about 9 years. IMHO it was desecrated by Catherine Judd and her “ACT – The Liberal Party” clusterfuck.
The “liberal right” need to wise up and see what useful idiots of Progressivism they actually are. If they are unwilling to do that, I’d suggest they join that Cresswellian cult. (last seen taking holiday snaps as they cruised passed Neptune)
December 21st, 2009 at 5:02 am
As David says “impressive flame war”.
Whale and Kate IMHO nailed the stupidity of what Douglas and Roy tried to do. As someone who has slogged in political trenches and been involved in a number of campaigns at the local and national level, you come to learn about a number of political realities. Separating one’s personal dreams and preferences from what is practical and possible in a NZ political context is what grown ups who want to move from the world of ‘Letter to the Editor’ and blog comments to the real world of wielding actual Parliamentary power must do if they want to have any chance of success in the latter endeavour. In the end, the voters are always right because in a democracy, they have the final say.
Roger Douglas did this country a great service and the reforms he instigated were needed, necessary and have laid some crucial foundations to the economic viability of NZ after the disasters of the Muldoon and earlier eras. But his day is long gone. Is he a brilliant and innovative economic thinker? Undoubtedly. Will NZers ever support him either as a party leader, cabinet minister or other position of profound influence? Never – its a political reality so get over it. Don Brash was a very capable RB Governor. He has a clear grasp of economic verities and in a perfect world, would actually make an excellent Minister of Finance. But in the REAL world of politics he is naive potential PR disaster. Yes his Orewa speech lofted National from sub 30% to ahead of Labour. That Brash came so close to unseating Labour in 05 was more to do with the growing unpopularity of Clark and her nanny State govt than his campaigning acumen. The Exclusive Brethren incident, which most would agree cost him the election, spoke volumes for Brash’s POLITICAL judgement. A more canny politician would’ve never gone near such a group regardless of their good intentions (exposing the Greens) because there are certain perceptions in society that are next to impossible to change and cosying up to a group that most would consider to be religious extremists is one of them. His meetings were bound to be found out and ruthlessly exploited by a left leaning media desperate to cover for Clark.
Rodney taking his bit of fluff to Europe was gold medal foolishness and the price he will pay is that his perkbusting efforts are now effectively doomed in terms of their PR value. I believe his contrition was genuine and the manner in which he fessed up was politically well done. A party like ACT will always be dominated by ideological purists and such a small party will never have enough people in its senior tactical ranks who have ever really operated very long at the Parliamentary or Cabinet level in Govt or Opposition nor run numerous campaigns at the national or local level to really get a grasp of the complex tactics involved with MMP elections. Epsom as one of National’s safest seats will invariably elect (without the tactical imperitive of a campaign like Rodney’s) whoever National selects by virtue of its socio-economic demograph. That local National Party members have selected drongos over the years speaks more about their particular local electorate dominated nomination system and who greased up to enough local delegates than the foolishness of Epsom’s voters.
Cactus and Whale in the midst of the flame war IMO were merely pointing out some practical political realities – that failed coups are politically damaging to big parties and politically toxic to small parties.
December 21st, 2009 at 5:34 am
“Many of the comments here on this thread are just personal abuse at Whale and myself, naturally they will be answered”
Bullshit!
The personal attacks were started by you, I can take your lame abuse, I can take your stuck up attitude, it is all water off a ducks back as far as I am concerned but I draw the line at you telling lies.
If you cannot deal with people disagreeing with you then this is not the place to be.
December 21st, 2009 at 6:25 am
Socialist Liberal Democrat’s hidden agenda is busted; the war of Afghanistan is to replace the leading Warlords with feminists! Wait til the Republican recover from anxiety attack…
December 21st, 2009 at 8:20 am
“.. now you know why I could never contemplate joining the ACT Party. Some excellent people surrounded by a buzzing cloud of dimwits.”
The right decision. They do not need more dimwits.
December 21st, 2009 at 8:29 am
This one of the funniest threads I’ve read in some time.
The way some of the commenters carry on suggests that they think their farts are Gods wisdom!
December 21st, 2009 at 10:20 am
I know little or nothing about politics but as far as I am concerned Sir Roger is ACT and ACT is Sir Roger and NO Roger is NO ACT.
The rest are just hangers ons. I don’t agree with everything Sir Roger puts out but compared with the rest with their foolish ideas he is tops.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:20 am
Gooner, whether you accept it or not that is the perception of a large number of people.
I make no comment either way but people remember only what they want to and the “perkbuster”/tv antics do not denote a leader.
Take time to talk to people (as I do for a crust) and this is the one thing that becomes obvious.
Kate thinks I live in the past (she’s probably correct) but until ACT gets a leader with a public presence similar to Jones (in 1983/4 – in which the NZ party gained 12.2% of the votes Kate), Holyoake or Muldoon it simply will not appeal to the numbers of non-thinking dipshit voters (who should never be allowed to vote anyway) who make up the majority of the electorate.
As an aside – Great thread this – the best for many many months if only because there is actually debate.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:52 am
No doubt the current ACT strategy is correct if your only goal is to maximise the chance of ACT staying in Parliament.
However being dependent on Epsom and campaigning on the basis that voting for Rodney Hide will not reduce National’s chance of forming a government, means that ACT is tied to the bulk of National’s Labour-lite agenda even to the point of being forced to vote to raise taxes (or cancel tax cuts before they take effect which is the same thing).
Surely even Whale and Cactus will agree that if National’s policies were sufficiently left-wing, a point would come where ACT would have to cut itself loose and stand up for its core principles, even if that means risking not being reelected. I’m not we’re there yet, but surely it’s close. Bill English announcing that National has no intention of trying to catch up to Australia seems like a good candidate for the tipping point where ACT could reasonably say that in all conscience they just can’t continue to back this agenda.
Remember that ACT won Wellington Central and passed 5% with economic policies well to the right of their current ones and no presence in Parliament and no promise to back National. Is it so unrealistic that ACT could either win Epsom or pass 5% with more centrist policies and an established parliamentary team, without needing to attach themselves to National any longer?
I should add I didn’t know anything about the ‘putsch’ (if it even really existed) until I read it on this blog.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:59 am
Hide showed he was a 2 faced arsehole Campaigned on ethics and morality and then gee wizz did the same thing he had campaigned against.
Most Politicans and civil servants are guilty of 2 faced behaviour. They speak out of both sides of their mouths at the same time.
Many citizens are sick to death of hearing these little creeps and weasels lecturing and hectoring us about what we should and shouldnt do whilst they commit the very sins they bang on at us about.
They show us no respect and only arrogance and contempt. Well we should show them the same back .Time they were taught a lesson.
When they learn to act in a responsible manner then and only then should we show them respect.
Respect is earnt It doesnt come with the title.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:04 am
ACT will never get very far if it is run by far rightists and doesn’t return to the broad common sense position it started with. Not that it matters becuase many of its common sense policies have be adopted by other parties, even Labour.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:30 am
LOL
Whaleoil & Cate take on the nutters with facts & reason, and for some reason people seem to be voting for the nutters.
This leftie is loving this thread
Flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmme Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
December 21st, 2009 at 11:39 am
Great reading guys, keep up the good work.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:52 am
Get real Roger is so far past his sell buy date it isn’t funny.
Why he didn’t play to the script after he got his title is the weird thing, he was supposed to get the title, then shuffle off behind his zimmer frame to spend the rest of his days quietly snouting in the trough.
As long as he considers himself to be “all things to all men” ACT is doomed.
December 21st, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Heh Cactus Date, Ayn Randers, and pro-marketeers! We need ACT to straighten out the Key-Maori activist coalition, so stop tearing into each other.
Hide fucked up, but it was just male menopause. He’ll be okay now.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pm
If you honestly believe this and you have any influence within the ACT party, then National needs to look for another support party, pronto!
From what i saw as an outsider, Hide worked his arse off to win Epsom, even when everyone (except his own polling) was telling him he couldn’t do it. If ACT had any brains at all, they would put another top candidate in Tamaki. But to be honest, i don’t know if Brash has got the energy, or inclination, to put in the work that would be required to win the seat.
National voters would realise that they had the opportunity to strengthen ACT’s position by lessening the influence of Epsom, while ensuring that ACT remained in parliament, regardless of the Epsom result (assuming they can’t make 5%).
To canablise Epsom by putting someone else up, would not just to shoot yourselves in the foot, but blow your whole bloody leg off.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
Nigel … the ONLY reason ACT won Wgtn Central was that Bolger pulled the rug under National’s candidate (Mark Thomas) when he finally realised the monster he had created (MMP) was likely to see ACT relegated to the ‘also-rans’ in 1996 (and National without a coalition partner) unless he indulged in a little manipulation. And how long did Prebs last as MP for Wgtn Central?
The jungle drums have it that a number of high quality candidates are lining up in Epsom for a crack at the National nomination. Yes of course there has been a tacit nudge nidge wink wink deal in the past to ‘gift’ the seat to ACT.
Not sure that is guaranteed to 2012. The failed coup might indicate that ACT is not a stable coalition partner.