World’s tallest building
Okay I can’t see anyone taking this record for a very long time. The Burj Dubai in Dubai is close to a km in height – 828 metres, which is around two thirds higher than the previous record holder in Taipei of 509 metres.
The Dom Post has superimposed it on Wellington to put things in perspective:
I must stay there next time I visit Dubai!
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Tags: Dubai
January 6th, 2010 at 9:41 am
We drove past it several times whilst in Dubai two years ago. At that point the exterior was well on the way to completion, and it was a remarkable sight, even then. I heard the developer describing on the news the techniques they have used to make it less wind-resistant, and I’m not overly convinced. If we ever do go back to Dubai, I’d like to check out the view, but I don’t think I’d do it on a windy day!
January 6th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Get-in quick to secure your 25-year lease. Don’t delay; David Beckham and Brad Pitt have already taken a floor each.
The World is so last decade.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Yep, an image that sure puts Wellington in perspective.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:13 am
If Wellington actually had tall buildings they’d get even less sun than they do now – not cool.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:16 am
For an indepth look at the Dubai you never hear about:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
January 6th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Actually, the building has been renamed the Burj Khalifa in honour of the ruler of neighbouring Abu Dhabi, who is picking up the bill after Dubai’s embarrasing little financial problems. How humiliating.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:31 am
And the top forty or so floors are so small that they are being used for storage. Or really small apartments I guess.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Hey look its just like a graph showing our national debt thanks to Kyoto and the bs ETS that our lords and masters forced on us.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Don’t you just love the Emiratis? They only want the biggest and shiniest things and are not bothered about the expense.
Dubai is fascinating. Its like Toon-town on steroids.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:10 am
radar – that was an interesting article. Thanks. I am sure the masters in Dubai would argue that it is not slavery, but merely indentured servitude.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:13 am
The guy that designed the Burj was interviewed by the BBC, he claimed that what they had learned in building the Burj would allow them to build over a kilometer high, easily. I guess they can build as high as the direct proportion of money in the cheque book.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:40 am
For some reason this reminds me of the biblical Tower of Babel; where men tried to build an edifice to glory themselves, rather then spread out and populate the globe as commanded by God – essentially an act of disobedience.
By confusing their language God basically forced them to ‘obey’ His original command to spread abroad over the entire globe. I often wonder if they had obeyed first time whether we would all have spoken one language from the start. Although today English is essentially the global language (commerce anyway), and so maybe we have come full circle and are back to “and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.” And, of course, our imaginations are evil continually. [Gen 6:5]
Is not much that motivates man nothing more than building edifices to glory ourselves?
January 6th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Like churches Kris? Until money became the main religion they were the biggest edifices.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:49 am
And as Islam is aiming to create a global caliphate, is not this ‘Tower’ perhaps one such announcement of their intent in this regard?
‘We are Islam, and you WILL acknowledge us; you will submit to our authority and rule.’
January 6th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Pete George 11:47 am,
That depends, Pete.
Many churches in the past were built to bring glory to God, not men.
Of course you and I can probably come up with possible examples of church buildings that do not meet this criteria. Only God knows the thoughts and intents of the hearts of men.
On scale alone, though, this ‘Tower’ takes the cake.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Kris – I guess when you build something like, say, Notre Dame or St Pauls or La Seu (or dare I say it the Masad al-Haram or even the Kinkaku-ji) they are not towers of Babel because it was done for the Glory of God. Don’t get me wrong – i love each and every one of those structures from a human achievement point-of-view, even if I don’t believe in the deities they were made to adore.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Radar 10:16 am,
Yes indeed, that is a very informative link:
A further reminder that in Islamic societies non Muslims are regarded and treated as nothing more ‘slaves’ and worker units. There is indeed a dark side to Dubai (read that Islam).
January 6th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Yes, it takes the cake, but I think all of Dubai is far more commercial than religious. We burn their oil, so they have money to burn.
So the men (and just about all men) didn’t glorify themselves, put themselves on the pedestals they built, dress themselves as special, adorn their edifices with all manner of expensive trinkets, without any thoughts of glorifying themselves?
Like Brian I am impressed by many of the architectural achievements, but I’m not impressed by the motives.
I’m also not impressed by the virtual slave labour in Dubai. What was done is still done.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Brian Smaller 11:59 am,
I agree, Brian.
I’m pretty sure, though, that the Burj Dubai is primarily an expression of the wealth and power of Dubai, and perhaps by inference Islam, versus purely ‘glorifying Allah’. As I have contended before, I believe Islam is a man made religion which glorifies a false god, and therefore glorifies the system of Islam and its adherents.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
A further reminder that in Islamic societies non Muslims are regarded and treated as nothing more ’slaves’ and worker units.
What makes you think the workers aren’t muslims?
January 6th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Kris K and Stephen
Yes indeed, that dark side of Dubai you cite does exist, and its obvious.
The working class – those who actually do all the grunty work like building the city – are mostly Indians and Chinese who tend to be non-Muslim. But there are also plenty of Pakistani workers also labouring under similar conditions.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Stephen 12:23 pm,
Did you read the link Radar provided (and I requoted)?
Many of the workers come from the Indian subcontinent.
Of course Islam doesn’t treat its own very well, either.
Remember the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami – many of the affected nations were Muslim, and yet it was largely Western relief agencies that came and lent aid and assisstance; Muslim agencies were largely obvious by their absence.
But if you read Radar’s link you get the distinct impression that the majority of the workers are non Muslim.
January 6th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I think we’ve pretty much done the latter, Kris. Or do you have some land to sell in Greenland?
January 6th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Did you read the link Radar provided (and I requoted)?
I read it a long time ago, but not lately. You implied that workers were deliberately treated that way because of their non-adherance to islam, but just seems to be that they all get treated like shit because of their lack of power.
January 6th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
” if you read Radar’s link ”
Who needs to read crap from a card carrying commie like Johann Hari???
FFS..!!!
January 6th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Malcolm 12:58 pm,
Of course we have, Malcolm.
But it took God’s confusion of the language at Babel to bring it about; it wasn’t due to man’s obedience – I think I made that pretty clear earlier.
January 6th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Redbaiter 1:24 pm,
I think you’re out of line, Red.
I don’t necessarily agree with Radar on all things, but when I do I am more than happy to cite material he’s sourced.
I too, like Stephen, have read the provided link before, and have it in my own archives on Islam.
What is it you don’t agree with from the link (apart from the fact that Radar provided it)?
January 6th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
I wouldn’t want to clean those windows!
January 6th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Stephen 1:09 pm,
I agree inasmuch as non Muslims in Islamic countries generally get “treated like shit” because they have no power or rights BECAUSE they are non Muslims. Ever heard of the term Dhimmi?
January 6th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Apparently people only clean the highest windows.
January 6th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Pete George
Thanks for that update – most informative. By the sounds of it “window cleaning” should be reclassified as an extreme sport!
January 6th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Kris K (1250) Says:
January 6th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Stephen 12:23 pm,
What makes you think the workers aren’t muslims?
Did you read the link Radar provided (and I requoted)?
Many of the workers come from the Indian subcontinent.
Of course Islam doesn’t treat its own very well, either.
Remember the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami – many of the affected nations were Muslim, and yet it was largely Western relief agencies that came and lent aid and assisstance; Muslim agencies were largely obvious by their absence.
Is lying endemic in christians, or is it just arrant ignorance?
many nations you would describe as Muslim donated money, eg Kuwait US$100 million, Turkey TRY28 million, UAE US$20 million, saudi Arabia $US30 million and so on.
A lot of the relief was run by UN agencies, last time I looked a lot of Muslim countries were UN members.
You may have noticed the Red Cross picked up a lot of the relief at the time, and 5 years later, still doing a lot of work. Are you aware that in Muslim countries it is known as The Red Crescent, but they are in fact one and the same? Of course the NZ Herald only ever refers to red Cross, just as the Muslim Science Monitor only refers to Red Crescent.
And as a point of interest, looked and yet I could not see a single sheckel, not a mite, from Israel. How about you get on their case?
January 6th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Update to above post. I have found further information and it appears Israel did contribute material and on ground workers, just not cash. There is also an extensive list of NGOs taht contributed, quite a few of the Jewish and Muslim ans well as humanitarian/humanist groups, but one has to look very, very hard to find the Christian support – maybe its that left hand, right hand thing they go on about – the left hand gets to hide the right hand’s inactivity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake
January 6th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
I agree inasmuch as non Muslims in Islamic countries generally get “treated like shit” because they have no power or rights BECAUSE they are non Muslims. Ever heard of the term Dhimmi?
My assertion was that all those construction workers in Dubai are treated like dirt in the manner described in that article (and plenty of others), muslim or not. You disagree, or not? If you disagree that this is the case, what evidence is that based on?
January 6th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
” What is it you don’t agree with from the link ”
I would not read anything from a source that is so disreputable.
January 6th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Thanks for the link radar, I have read it before but it is a timely reminder of the worlds largest slave state. Like the pharoahs updated for the modern age. I have been through on the the way to england a couple of times and have many mates working/ or worked up there and the tales of brutality towards the slaves is sickening. Most normal poeople soon sicken of the treatment despite the fact it allows for a wondefull lifestyle for ex-pat workers.
On my last stop over a mate offered to drive me out into the desert to see the concentration camp like accomodation cells that the slaves are forced to live in. shipping containers sleeping 12 with TWO rotating shifts a day. Hot bedding in dantes inferno he called it. Massive armed security presence around the camp as well. Not trying to keep people out I should think.
These poor saps are promised decent wages and living conditions and then have their passports snatched when they arrive and are saddled with debt to the recruitment company and are effectively stuck.
It always make me feel guilty flying emirates despite the fact that they are the best airline around for business travel. The luxury on those flights is terrific.
January 6th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Pete George (3025) Says:
January 6th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
“We burn their oil, so they have money to burn”
Wikipedia says: “The emirate’s main revenues are from tourism, property and financial services.[7] Although Dubai’s economy was originally built on the oil industry,[8] revenues from petroleum and natural gas currently contribute less than 6% (2006)”
January 6th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Thanks Paul, interesting but not surprising considering their substantial financial wobbles recently.
They’ve set up an excellent airline and airport hub. I’m not attracted to their style of tourism though. Too artificial.
January 6th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
MyNameIsJack 2:18 pm,
Well lets look at other Muslim nations (from your source):
Muslim (majority) country : Population : USD given (not listed = NONE)
List in decending population:
Indonesia pop 228,582,000 – not listed
Pakistan pop 172,800,000 – not listed
Bangladesh pop 162,221,000 – not listed
Nigeria pop 154,279,000 – not listed
Egypt pop 77,100,000 – not listed
*Turkey pop 71,517,100 – TRY 28.9M
Iran pop 70,495,782 – USD 627,000
Sudan pop 39,379,358 – not listed
Algeria pop 33,769,669 – not listed
Afghanistan pop 32,738,376 – not listed
Morocco pop 33,723,418 – not listed
Iraq pop 28,221,181 – not listed
Malaysia pop 27,730,000 – not listed
*Saudi Arabia pop 27,601,038 – USD 30M
Uzbekistan pop 27,372,000 – not listed
Yemen pop 23,013,376 – not listed
Syria pop 19,405,000 – not listed
Kazakhstan pop 15,217,711 – not listed
Niger pop 13,272,679 – not listed
Burkina Faso pop 13,228,000 – not listed
Mali pop 11,995,402 – not listed
Senegal pop 11,658,000 – USD 200,000
Tunisia pop 10,383,577 – not listed
Guinea pop 10,211,437 – not listed
Somalia pop 9,558,666 – not listed
Azerbaijan pop 8,676,000 – not listed
Tajikistan pop 7,215,700 – not listed
Sierra Leone pop 6,294,774 – not listed
Libya pop 6,173,579 – not listed
Jordan pop 5,568,565 – not listed
*United Arab Emirates pop 5,432,746 – USD 20M
Kyrgyzstan pop 5,356,869 – not listed
Turkmenistan pop 5,110,023 – not listed
Chad pop 5,041,690 – not listed
Lebanon pop 4,196,453 – not listed
*Kuwait pop 3,399,637 – USD 100M
Albania pop 3,170,048 – not listed
Mauritania pop 3,124,000 – not listed
Oman pop 2,577,000 – not listed
Kosovo pop 2,100,000 – not listed
(I ignored Muslim countries below this population ie under 2 million)
Of all the above Muslim countries only these gave:
*Turkey pop 71,517,100 – TRY 28.9M
Iran pop 70,495,782 – USD 627,000
*Saudi Arabia pop 27,601,038 – USD 30M
Senegal pop 11,658,000 – USD 200,000
*United Arab Emirates pop 5,432,746 – USD 20M
*Kuwait pop 3,399,637 – USD 100M
(* = your quoted examples)
Now as a comparison what did New Zealand and Australia give:
NZ pop 4,266,000 – USD 47.2M
Australia pop 22,103,678 – USD 1.099bn
So apart from Kuwait (pop 3,399,637 – USD 100M), even those that did give made a pretty poor show of it:
Iran with over 70 million people couldn’t even scrape up a cool million bucks US.
The wealthy United Arab Emirates pop 5,432,746, with just over a million more people than NZ gave USD 20M; under half our figure.
Of course LARGE Muslim nations; such as:
Indonesia pop 228,582,000
Pakistan pop 172,800,000
Bangladesh pop 162,221,000
Nigeria pop 154,279,000
Egypt pop 77,100,000
gave nothing.
So who’s lying now, MyNameIsJack?
January 6th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Kris, I presume Indonesia wouldn’t have given, they were given too because it happened there.
January 6th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Pete George 4:41 pm,
Included for the sake of completeness, Pete.
But maybe I should have excluded it from the ‘Largest Muslim Nations’ list.
It took me a while to get all the data together and format it, so, you know, heat of the moment and all that.
January 6th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
People who live in countries with the tallest buildings have the biggest dicks.
Fact.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
All the bleeding heart stuff about “slave states” (Brainless Bill) etc is so off the mark its laughable. The building companies in Dubai sub contract labour, and the contracts are bid for world wide by workforces from Eastern Europe, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan. The wages are paid by the local companies who hire the labour to fulfill the contractual requirements.
In most cases, workers will pay bribes or legitimate fees to the labour contractor in order to be engaged to work in Dubai, for no matter how hard the conditions or how low the wages, they are still far ahead in monetary terms and living conditions than if than if they remained working and living in their own countries. Nobody forces them to work in Dubai. They earnestly want to and they pay money so they can. “Slavery” is just emotive bleeding heart liberal bullshit based on ignorance.
For example an Indian tea boy in an office might be working for $US30/ month. He would normally be on a three year contract. The money he earns over the first two years goes to pay the Indian contractor or agent who provided him with the job. Over the entire three year period only gets to keep the money he earns in the the third year.
Nevertheless, if he had to, he would knife his own grandmother to get the job, for if he returns to his country of origin after his three year period he will most likely be a rich man in his village. Many don’t ever return to India, and sign on again and again, because the ” slave” like conditions they work under are still far superior to anything that might be on offer at home.
What would the pain in the arse never been anywhere or done anything bleeding heart liberals prefer??? That all the workers stay at home in conditions that are far worse than they live under in Dubai, and never have a chance to better themselves or even get any kind of job? FFS.
January 6th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
That picture in the Dom really puts the Wellington skyline in perspective. Though I wonder if it even does the Burj Dubai full justice? I looked up the BNZ centre and it is only 103 metres tall. So the Burj Dubai is over 8 times taller. But in the photo it looks like less than that. The base of the BNZ tower is a bit above sea level I guess, but is that enough to explain the apparent discrepancy?
January 7th, 2010 at 7:54 am
willtruth – I was listening to an article on the radio as I drove into Wellington the other day. It is as tall as the distance from the Aotea offramp to the Terrace offramp – that is about 850m.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Sorry – I meant Murphy St offramp. Either way – a bloody tall building.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:04 am
Lot of muslims in India Kris. Looks like a bit of a dishonest line youre running here when you talk about the workers being “non-muslim” on the basis of them being from the Indian subcontinent. Especially as you acknowledge that many of the victims of the Indian Ocean tsunami were muslims.
I get that you think they were born under the wrong God but your logic just doesnt follow mate. Is it an honest error or deliberate misinformation?
January 7th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Kris K, stop getting your nickers in a twist, did you look at the list of donor nations on a per capita basis?
1 & 2 – Secular
3 – Muslim
4 & 5 – Secular
6 Roman catholic
7 – muslim
8 – 15 – Secular
16 – Claims to be xtian (USA)
17 – Secular
18 – muslim
19 – 22 – Secular
23 – Roman Catholic majority
24 – eastern Christian, but mostly secular in government,
Now, waht I don’t see in this list is huge donations from predominantly xtian nations, such as the supposed future of the church in Africa, Asia and South America, in fact, xtians are more than conspicuous by their absence.
Stop pretending that your faith is superior to all others – they are all the same: myths, lies and bullfuckingshit!
January 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Kris is right, we shouldn’t support Muslim countries in any way. After we find a way of living without their oil.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
MyNameIsJack 9:33 am,
Once again MNIJ you reveal your duplicity by your misrepresentation of what others have said:
I never said “Christian nations”, as you assert above, but rather “Western relief agencies”.
Below is a requote of my original post at 12:38 pm 6-01-10 which triggered your tirade against me:
Any more lies you’d like to share with us?
January 7th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
There’s perspective of course, which would make the taller building look relativity less tall. Whether or not the photoshopper took this in account and how is another matter.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Pete George 9:39 am,
The sarcasm in your comment is noted, Pete.
The thing is, is it wise to do business with your enemies, in this case Islamic nations, when the very foundation of Islam is built upon the destruction of the West, Israel, and ultimately all those that refuse to submit to Islam?
Common sense suggests that we should not!
We should not buy their oil, and neither should we sell our meat to Muslim nations (the bulk of our meat exports).
As an aside; did you realise that most/all our meat (beef & mutton) is slaughtered in accordance with Halal slaughter practices? As most of our meat works export, and that to Muslim countries, then even local trade is Halal slaughtered at these works for ease of processing (it all goes through the same chain).
Something to bear in mind next time you sit down to a nice steak, or roast lamb dinner.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Redbaiter, you’ve conveniently skipped the part about the employer holding the passport. In those cases employee has no freedom to leave if the employer is an arsehole. That’s where the slavery label comes in.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
What the fucks “xtian”? Can’t you spell? It’s Christian. By the way, most of those secular countries would be classed as Christian by most other indicators, only in your dumbass mind are they “secular”.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Don’t you mean: “What the fuck[']s “xtian””?
January 7th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
It does seem weird, wasn’t the cross shaped more like a “t” than an “x”? But the “t” is still there. Is “x” short for Chris? But there is no “t” in xmas. T’s and x’s are confusing – is it because of txt?
January 7th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
” Redbaiter, you’ve conveniently skipped the part about the employer holding the passport.”
..and you’re a fucking idiot for suggesting I would stoop to dishonesty on such a minor issue. The reason the employer holds the passport is not to ‘enslave” the employee but because immigrant workers are subject to stringent immigration laws, and if they skip the country owing money or for any nefarious reason the employer is responsible. Employers also face heavy fines if immigration protocols are breached by any employee. Lastly, many such immigrant workers are illiterate and unfamiliar with documentation. Passports would often be lost if left in the hands of the employee, leading to more expense and in most cases massive adminstrative problems with the authorities.
You need to get a clue before mouthing off to the extent you do, but I guess you’re just another NZ gummint employee living in his cosy little detached from reality bureaucratic Nirvana far from the surface and the sunlight. You’ll never get it.
January 7th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Kris, not so much intended as sarcasm. Our energy needs put us at the mercy of a few countries that we may not be all that chuffed about.
I don’t care about Halal slaughter, even though my home kill meat isn’t done the Halal way. Can’t see anything, can’t taste anything. I don’t mind eating hot cross buns. And I don’t mind watching rugby sevens, in Dubai or wherever.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
So Redbaiter, if the employer holds the passport of the illiterate worker and is an arsehole, what options does the employee have? Basically none. That’s why people use the slavery term.
LOL, you fool. I’ve never worked for the government. Shouldn’t you get a clue before you mouth-off? Or do none of your many rules apply to yourself?
January 7th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Sorry but I haven’t actually picked up on your great integrity. Perhaps it’s not as self-evident as you think.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
” So Redbaiter, if the employer holds the passport of the illiterate worker and is an arsehole, what options does the employee have? ”
He has as many options as he would normally have. The passport is not held as any kind of coercive measure. The worker is hired by the employee in masse in another country, brought to Dubai en masse, the employer handles all immigration formalities, and the employer is held responsible for that employee while he is in Dubai. There is every precaution taken to avoid illegal entry. If the employee decides he wants to breach his contract and leave, he only has to ask for his passport to be returned to him and it is once all immigration formalities have been dealt with.
The passport is not held to force the employee to work for poor wages in poor conditions but to ensure the employer does not fall foul of the many stringent immigration requirements that have severe penalties if breached. Much more severe and stringent than here.
You’re an ignorant fool Malcolm, and your nit picking attempts to logically twist minor aspects of any issue to save face are boring. Go away.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Redbaiter,
So do you refute the accuracy of the information outlined in The Dark Side of Dubai regarding many workers there being little more than ‘slaves’?
Link:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
[And by the way, I didn't get this from Radar originally - I've had it on file for a couple of months]
January 7th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
“I’ve never worked for the government.”
I doubt that. You have unaccountability and responsibility avoidance written all over you.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
” So do you refute the accuracy of the information outlined in The Dark Side of Dubai regarding many workers there being little more than ’slaves’? ”
I have already told you. I have not read the article and have no intention of reading any article from such a jaundiced source as Johann Hari.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
If you don’t believe what people say and you don’t read the source that the discussion was about you have fixed agenda written all over you.
I would have thought in a free world every person should have the right to retain possession of their own passport. An employer “protecting their interests” should not have power of seizure.
The only other times I have heard of employers I have heard of employers holding passports are in slave situations, especially sex slavery. I suppose the employers are just protecting their interests there too.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Johann Hari ?
That loon?
He believes that Somali pirates are protesting toxic waste dumping and trawling.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html
January 7th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
OK Redbaiter. Whatever you say.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
OK Redbaiter. Whatever you say.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
” I would have thought in a free world every person should have the right to retain possession of their own passport.”
Nobody holds a gun at these worker’s heads to force them to sign the contract.
The first point is that the Dubai government is always very concerned with possible threats to its sovereignty. The second point is that the employees are not actually in the country but in a kind of exclusive zone that is walled in by documentation that puts them always in the custody of their employer. It is a legal framework designed to limit threats to the Dubai rulers, not to force workers into slavery.
You sad liberal ignorance is hanging out of your trousers. Do your fly up.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Redbaiter, if you were a complete arsehole and an employer in Dubai, do you think holding their passports would make it easier or harder for you to be an arsehole?
January 7th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Sounds like semantics to me. Always in the custody of their employer? Legal framework to limit threats to the rulers? Ok, it isn’t slavery, they are just not free people.
Now I know what sort of government you support.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Redbaiter, if you were a complete arsehole and an employer in Dubai, do you think holding your employees’ passports would make it easier or harder for you to be an arsehole?
Actually, don’t bother answering. You’re an ignorant old fool and your attempts to logically twist any issue to save face are boring. Go away.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Slavery??? You sick irrational goons. They are there by choice. Did you read above or not? They actually pay to go there. They fight each other for places. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about, and your feeble application of the slavery ticket is just a transparent attempt to save your worthless liberal arses from the consequences of an argument based on ignorance.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
“save your worthless liberal arses from the consequences of an argument based on ignorance.”
You do know that you don’t get to make love to guys over an argument don’t you old man?
January 7th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Kris K
I read an article last month about a slaughter house in the south island that doesn’t allow halaal killing as most of their customers don’t want it.
forget where.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
It is easy to find references to plenty of problems with the holding of passports.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
MyNameIsJack (1319) Says:
January 6th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Hi Billy/Zapper
What’s the weather like where you are?
having a good holiday?
Have a good family Christmas?
What a start to 2010, yet another scrap at Kiwiblog.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
“The practice of retaining passports in the UAE is illegal in accordance with court rulings,” Aref Mirza, director of the legal department at the Ministry of Labour, told Gulf News.
“Retaining workers’ passports amounts to forcible work in violation of the International Labour Organisation’s (ILO) Convention on the Abolition of Forced Labour, to which the UAE is a signatory.”
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/employment/retaining-passports-is-forcible-labour-1.240660
Forcible labour, slavery, semantics.
It is common. And it is illegal.
Is that red from embarassment? Do your fly up.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
well done Petey
Now what is little old NZ going to do about it?
January 7th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
They do. But that doesn’t mean that some of them don’t end up effectively as slaves of abusive employers who hold their passport.
Strangely, just because you write something, this doesn’t make it a fact. However annoying that might be for you.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Refusing to return a workers passport after they have asked for it to be returned is of course an offence. But this is not what is being discussed here.
The discussion here is based around employees voluntary conceding their employer the right to store their passport as part of their employment contract, and for the good reasons specified (again – read them you idiots) above.
” all ministries, including those of Finance and Industry, Interior, Labour and Social Affairs are retaining passports of their expatriate staff ”
You know nothing of how the Middle East operates.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
For an indepth look at the Dubai you never hear about:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
..good link..what a shithole
January 7th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Starboard, that’s back to what RedB refuses to read, that is why he is trying to talk about something different to everyone else.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
I guess he’s entitled to his view on it…
January 7th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Yes, he’s entitled his view, but looks silly trying to reframe the topic to try and justify his abuse of those discussing the original point – passports being illegally withheld from foreign workers. A lot of foreign worker’s legal and human rights are being screwed. How “the Middle East operates” is often illegal and is seen as forced labour or slavery, and for some reason RedB seems to be trying to defend that.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
” and for some reason RedB seems to be trying to defend that.”
A deliberate lie of the kind you Mr. George specialise in. I am not trying to defend what happens there.
I am saying your allegations of slavery and passports being withheld in order to force employees to work and live in subhuman conditions are ridiculous and driven by the prejudices of your sick liberal mind set rather than reason and fact.
All workers in Dubai are there by choice.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Are you saying everyone apart from you is lying? It was others that have talked about allegations of slavery and passports being withheld.
There are numerous links to reports from around the world regarding abuse of workers and slavery. This is just one.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Get a grip Mr. George. You have nothing but wild and empty allegations.
The real slavery is here in NZ where you and your damn Communist mates vote for politicians who steal our money for you- to the extent that we are forced to work almost half a year before we get to keep what we have earned. That is the real crime, that is the real slavery, and you’re up to your stinking commie neck in it.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
..ya cant argue with that PG..
January 7th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Why don’t you use his name Starboard? Maybe you don’t want to, after he included you as one of the “liars”.
Trying to divert again Mister Baiter? Back to your Standard tactic when you don’t have an argument, attack attack, attack. As usual you are what you accuse. You have nothing but wild and empty allegations.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
Petey take a chill pill and go bye bye.
January 7th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Red’s the one that keeps seeing red d4j. He’s very defensive about Dubai, does he have a vested interest in the slave trade? Or is he just annoyed about having revealed what sort of politics he really craves for?
January 7th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Redbaiter 8:11 pm,
What is “wild and empty” about the information contained in the link Pete [7:59 pm] provided?
I normally agree with much of what you say, Red, and often support you when I do. But you do appear to be skirting around the issue on this one.
Either the information is accurate or it isn’t.
If you know something we don’t then I’m all ears.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
” What is “wild and empty” about the information contained in the link Pete [7:59 pm] provided? ”
For fuck’s sake. Its some old codger on a blog somewhere repeating second hand assertions. All Mr. George could find after hours of Google searching to find something legitimate. Hearsay that wouldn’t stand up for thirty seconds in a court of law. Where is the evidence?
If you honestly think there is nothing “wild and empty” about that you really need to develop a bit of skepticism.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
http://michellemalkin.com/2006/09/14/child-slavery-in-dubai/
etc etc – Previous links above are from other sources including :
Aref Mirza, director of the legal department at the Ministry of Labour, told Gulf News.
The blog you diss reports on a book A Crime So Monstrous. Check that out on Amazon.
You know as well as anyone else here that if you do a search on slavery dubai or forced labour dubai you will get hundreds of links to choose from. You’re playing games.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
The fact that you needed to shift your focus from construction workers to child jockeys is just proof of your desperation. Hundreds of links can be found to anything. You’re waffling.
January 7th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Multiple widely publicised examples, including the ones of child slavery you refer to (but do not refute), do not indicate desperation.
As Kris asked, can you provide any links that show you are not “skirting around the issue”?