H Fee Mark II
May 29th, 2010 at 8:04 am by David FarrarWell I think Pete Hodgson’s career as a trusts lawyer (Cactus feel free to comment) is now well and truly over. For those who have not read the legal advice the PM has released, it is here and Key’s statement here.
I’d say this little attempt to smear Key has been about as successful as the last dozen ones Labour has tried, including their infamous H Fee attempt.
You have to wonder how many hours of taxpayer funded Labour work went into trawling through TV footage back to 18 months ago to find something he said at a dinner, and then digging through company files, all in a desperate attempt to prove wrong-doing in Key’s personal business affairs.
UPDATE: Tracy Watkins independently reaches much the same conclusions:
There is more than a whiff of the H-bomb debacle about Labour’s pursuit of John Key over his blind trust. That must be particularly galling for the new generation on Labour’s backbench.
The burning question is why anyone in their right mind would want to revive memories of a Labour Party that spent its dying days in office trawling through Australian court records for non-existent dirt on Mr Key. The equally troubling question for the rookies must be why Labour’s old hands are intent on repeating the same mistakes. …
Why so determined to drag him down? It is not personal. Labour just want to chip away at the fairytale. Mr Key’s rags-to-riches tale of a state-house boy made good is a huge political asset. Understandably, Labour sees a huge upside in denting that and its goal is to taint the fairytale with the usual big money associations. But it hasn’t done that so far with these latest allegations. Nor with the prevous attempts – which, in the case of the H bomb, came at a heavy cost. And the wounds from that had only recently healed.
So if Phil Goff’s leadership was supposed to turn a new chapter, why on earth reopen them – and, in the process, risk reminding voters that the old hands they voted out are still in charge?
There is no new chapter with Hodgson and Mallard still running things.
Tags: John Key, Pete Hodgson, smears
May 29th, 2010 at 8:44 am
Pete(r) Hodgson’s career never started.
Vote:He quite clearly has no idea about trusts or trust mangement.
And if Whitechapel is all Labours dumpster divers can come up with then they really need to consider getting real jobs.
May 29th, 2010 at 8:45 am
Why is it Labour can churn out smears so quickly but when it comes to policy they prevaricate and confirm nothing?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 8:48 am
I don’t disagree with the CONTENT nor the CONCLUSION of the “Legal Advice”, but the fact the person who is giving the advice is contracted to perform work on behalf of John Key in the first place, and that person would be the one failing in his duties had he SPOKEN to John Key “off the record – like”, hardly makes it an INDEPENDENT opinion.
It does NOTHING towards clearing up the issue.
Problem remains is that the choir is being preached to, by and large, and that Labour KNOWS that mud will stick. They have to take Key down to have any chance at the next election. They will keep coming at him shaving away at the percentages.
Key’s been going around looking like a cocky SOB for some time. The first step to a fall is well on the way unless he smartens up.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Tracy Watkins has given Labour a kicking this morning over this – her closing remarks:
It’s deja-vu all over again for Labour
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Well, most NZ’ers don’t really agree with you there, they really like Key. With exception of the far right and the far left.
And even if the allegations do stack up, I don’t think it will hurt his popularity much, it looks way too much like a technicality.
And Labour doesn’t look too good in this either. Until they can produce an alternative to national (both in policy and personal) they will remain in opposition. Trying to trip Key over minor issues only makes them look desperate and negative.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:15 am
the final line of John Key’s statement and it is worth repeating is this
“Clearly, Labour has no response to the Budget and they are resorting in desperation to muckracking. This isn’t the first time Labour has employed these tactics – we also saw it during the 2008 election campaign”
Hodgson is and always has been an angry little prick. This I think is the first time he has been in the media in 18 months. Hopefully it is the last time. Labour scum should hang their heads in shame.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am
You have to wonder how many hours of taxpayer funded Labour work went into trawling through TV footage back to 18 months ago to find something he said at a dinner, and then digging through company files, all in a desperate attempt to prove wrong-doing in Key’s personal business affairs.
Probably a lot less than gets spent on Jason Ede and the dirt he provides you, David.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:31 am
The left only ever have three strings to their political bow-
1) Increase taxation
2) Increase regulation
3) Character assassination.
Every thing they ever do can fit into those three basic categories.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:45 am
And this came hard on the heels of John Key knocking a six off Phil Goff’s own goal.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:48 am
This will probably turn into a bullet in own foot situation. Someone will look into Mr Goff’s or Mr Hodgson’s business affairs and find clear conflicts of interest not just some weird smudge of inuendo based on unrealistic assumptions.
Every other time they have tried this Labour end up looking more stupid than they started. Oh well I guess National will have to suffer at being over 60% in the polls and Labour will have the joy of looking at sub 30%.
Really if anyone is driving strategy in Labour they need to be drop kicked to touch as what they are doing is completely destructive to their own cause.
What they should do is what Don Brash did when he took over. They hsould realise that 2011 is lost to them but their goal should be to push new policy/ideas/people in order to build their voter support at 2011 so that it becomes a launching pad for the 2014 election where(National may be starting to look a bit tired – John Key will have a few more wrinkles) and they may have a chance of winning with a new generation at the helm.
If they carry on as they are at 2011 Labour are going to lose more MP’s than they currently have – Goff and Co will leave as they don’t have the stomach to rebuild the party. And the leftovers will spend 2011-14 scrapping over leadership/policy/factions and there will not be a Labour government until at least 2017.
Fricken idiots don’t realise that their ‘goddess’ HC did more to destroy Labour than anything anyone else ever did – and yet they still worship her
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:52 am
“Well, most NZ’ers don’t really agree with [Petal] there, they really like Key. With exception of the far right and the far left.”
You’re not thinking long term. A fair proportion of Key’s popularity is due to Goff. Once he’s rolled, there will be an adjustment that may put Labour within a sniff of the prize.
I’m more concerned about death by a thousand cuts than one killer blow.
New Zealanders, as a generalised species, don’t like cocky SOBs. Rich cocky SOBs even less. As a strategy I’d suggest he tones it down.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Notwithstanding the legalities and the politiking around blind trusts, one should look at the substance and intention of a blind trust rather than the form it takes (same applies to tax I suppose).
Being that they are set up primarily to avoid conflicts of interest in say political decision making, I would say the intention of the trust conflicts with normal trusts which is to safeguard assets for beneficiaries.
The letter states that John Key is not a named beneficiary, which is true, however he is still a beneficiary nontheless with the trustees discretion.
The letter also doesn’t name the Settlor, who I suspect may be John Key, but if it is Whitechapel then this destroys all principles of a trust.
I suggest that neither John Key nor the National Party are the only ones with Blind Trusts
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:58 am
btw, there would be a nice wee shitfight if the Key’s ever split up
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:09 am
“Well, most NZ’ers don’t really agree with [Petal] there, they really like Key. With exception of the far right and the far left.”
You’re not thinking long term. A fair proportion of Key’s popularity is due to Goff. Once he’s rolled, there will be an adjustment that may put Labour within a sniff of the prize.
I’m more concerned about death by a thousand cuts than one killer blow.
New Zealanders, as a generalised species, don’t like cocky SOBs. Rich cocky SOBs even less. As a strategy I’d suggest he tones it down.
Piss off petal – your attempt at making this into something isn’t gona work. The only death of a thousand cuts going on is Goff and the labour party. If we saw National going down 1.5 points every month in the polls then yeah you’d be right. But no its labour and Goff trawling the bottom of the polls like the sludge eaters they are.
The problem with your red (envy) tined spectacles is that you are wrong. You confuse confidence with cockiness. You assume that wealth equals evil. And whats up with calling Key a son of a bitch?? You have something against his mother?
You are thinking the same way as Goff you idiot. You are assuming that Key is like your own and puts on a persona of being a man of good character where in (your) reality he is just a scheming manipulative political who will do nothing to stop at holding power.
This is how Helen Clark operated. You think all you need to do is chip away at the persona to bring the man down. It aint gona work. You forget he has a wife and kids who are important to him. It is surprising how having a family keeps a man on the straight and level.
Attack his policies by all means – but going after him personally is just going to back fire you dumbass.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:12 am
BTW
On the interest register,
http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/84AF1922-F14F-4BAB-A321-BEA111EB0AD1/143153/register2010_3.pdf
Smile and Wave
4 Beneficial interests in trusts
JP and BI Key Family Trust
Aldgate Trust (blind trust)
Clayton Cosgrove has a blind trust, as does Steven Joyce,
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:14 am
jims_whare – you mention Goff’s and Hodgson’s business affairs. I would be amazed if they had any “business affairs” of their own. The only experience they would have had is interferring in other’s business affairs – regulating them, taxing them, and spending the proceeds. Not sure that this constitutes ‘business’ but it does waste a lot of money.
Oh, they might have the odd rental property, which probably explains their complete lack of action over the housing bubble. Not sure you would call this ‘business’ though.
It would be interesting in fact to go one by one through the Labour caucus to see if any of them ever had a business or employed staff with their own capital at risk.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:17 am
In the interests of fairness and balance Dirty Rat, why don’t you apply the same scrutiny to more of your Working-Class Heroes from the left …
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:26 am
….or, is this an attempted (and failed) smoke screen to divert attention from the last Government’s Expenses Disclosures due any day now?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:28 am
IV2 – rat isnt a leftist
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Labour is trying to draw attation away from their abscence of any workable policy other than their traied and failed tax and spendathon by muck racking and smearing.
Did they not get the results of the last election or what?
Clean your own house Labour, you’re miserable bloody failures with a reputation for corruption, muck racking and retroactive legislation to legitimaise your dirty dealings. You’re not going to make yourselfs look good by throwing poopy round the monkey cage.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:32 am
@ freedom 101 – Phil Goff’s CV goes thus:
Student, University Lecturer, Insurance Workers’ Union organiser, MP, AIT Lecturer, Student (Oxford, on a scholarship), MP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Goff
He is an expert in spending OPM (Other People’s Money), but it would seem that he has never put his own dosh on the line as those of us who run our own businesses do.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:45 am
A guy worth 50 million gives up high paying job to take poxy MP’s salary in the hope one day he might be Prime Minister and can influence legislation to make a few grand on his stock portfolio.
It was by employing this kind of logic that Labour ended up paying through the arse for a train set.
What a bunch of fucking retards. When will they get it through their thick skulls that Key is not in this game for the cash.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:55 am
IV2
I did mention someone from another party who has a blind trust, and the issue is about John Key and his press release. The same scrutiny would apply to anyone who makes a press release when things are clouded.
Scutinising the pecuniary register, Key states he has a beneficial interest in the Aldgate Trust.
Now he is saying he doesnt. The Register of Pecuniary Interest is wrong ?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Hodgson’s past his useful-by date. He should have pissed off when H1…Hnth went.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:54 am
@ Dirty Rat – it’s Saturday, and my brain isn’t completely engaged today
What really worries me about this is the disincentive that it will provide for people who have achieved a degree of financial success to get into poltics, if their portfolios are going to be scrutinised so much. Do we, as a country, really benefit from having a Parliament full of Darren Hughes, Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern types; people who have done nothing but work in and around politics?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:55 am
During her campaign for the last election, I believe Helen Clark’s slogan was something like “It’s About Trust”. Who could forget all the songs about John the Gambler? Maybe the Labour Party believed their own BS to the core and were sure that sooner or later something would be found to really embarrass John Key with. If that was their belief, it makes Helen’s choice of slogan, which seemed so strange at the time, look more rational, now. What do people think?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:57 am
“..It’s deja-vu all over again..”
that’s a double-something-or-other…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:58 am
If Tracy Watkins is pointing out how this is a load of crap you know that Labour are wasting their time.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
so…let’s see if i’ve got this right..
keys’ lawyer sez..’nothing to see here…move right along..!’
..and farrar is providing a back-up chorus…?
ten out of ten there for effort there..eh..?
(heh-heh..!..)
and hey..!..i don’t want key to ‘tone it down’…
..each passing day brings him more and more into clear focus…for many…
..eh…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Philu, I enjoy your comments, mate. Sometimes they look a little futile, though. The question I have is, who do you reckon will be the first on the left (if I may be so bold as to use that label) to come up with a new approach? The old approach of throwing “poop in the monkey cage” and hoping some will stick is getting a little tiresome. Perhaps you can lead them out of the blocks with something new, eh?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Classic!!!
I just got a two week ban from Mr Reasonable (lprent) himself at The Standard for simply asking them if they had a different legal opinion on John Key’s relationship to his blind trust, and if so would they provide this so the Speaker could make a decision on if the rules have been breeched.
Apparently I was asking too much although the reason I was asking the question was that noone was bothering to answer it. Kind of smacks of realising they are backing the wrong horse on this one and wanting to shut down devate.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
The fact that the contents of Key’s ‘Blind’ Trust can be seen by anyone was not raised by the Labour Tories it was raised by TV3.
The fact that through incompetence or corruption the assets are not hidden makes a mockery of Key claiming the Trust operates in ‘Best standards’
If Labour Tories were not following up the TV3 claim then they would not be doing their job as opposition, The same as the National Tories hammering Clarke over a drawing
The fact that one or 2 journalists or kiwiblogger contributors say otherwise does not make it true
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
@Le grande Fromage – One of the enduring traits of the super wealthy is that they are driven to achieve.. and financial reward is evidence of that achievement. To be fair over time the definition of achievement starts to broaden to include ‘money can’t buy’ experiences.. and the fame and influence resulting from climbing the political ladder would rate there. But it would be foolish to completely dismiss personal financial gain as an area for scrutiny – as a great many UK politicians have discovered to their dismay. Speaking of which, I wonder when we’ll see the release of NZs former Labour MP’s expenses?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
so Inky, do you have evidence that John Key’s blind trust is set up in a different way to other blind trusts or just supposition?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
@ Inky, don’t act so naiive. It has been clear that the Labour party was setting up for this attack on Key for a few days before the TV3 story broke. It looks like the Labour Party was seeding the media and TV3 decided to run with the story.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Inky, Labour’s Chief embalmer was asking questions in the house days before TV3 went to air.
Get with it, why doncha?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Dimpost describes Labour as piss smelling rats
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
@ Inky – read Tracy Watkin’s story (follow DPF’s link above). Labour has form in the area of peddling John Key smears to the media to try and give them legs. TV3 is the only MSM organisation to go hook, line and sinker with this particular one, and it looks as though it will have a similar outcome to the Kees Keizer secret tapes from before the 2008 election; another TV3 “exclusive”.
And let’s not forget; we, as taxpayers are paying for this shite via Labour’s Research Unit. I don’t regard that as a good use of MY money!
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
yes phool history is repeating, you shit eating dirt mongers went dumpster diving before and lost an election over it.
go.fucking.nuts.idot
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@ Phil – “deja vu all over again” is a famous old quote from Yogi Berra, former player and manager of the New York Yankees baseball team. It seemed absolutely perfect as a blog-post title this morning.
Wikipedia says of Yogi Berra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra#Quotes
Then again, being a fount of all knowledge by way of your world-famous news aggreagtion site, you probably knew that
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I say to Pete H – keep it up – the more you do it the more stupid you look, and as for any reasonable expectation of re-election – keep dreaming.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
I read the comments on The opinion piece by Watkins. Most of the people commenting are asking similar questions to me.
Watkins seems to skate around the edges of people’s concerns. It no more journalistic than my opinion expressed here
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Hodgsen is such a dreadful creature, (he looks like gollum), that he is a political asset for the National Party. He has not got long in politics which is probably why he is so angry. John Key could remain PM for the next 20 years and still not be too old for the job. And dreadful gollum knows it. So he is angry and bitter. He is not very successful in politics, his performance was very patchy at best as a Minister. Seems to like spending more time on muck raking than he did being a Minister. And that dreadful footage on him trying to dance – at an airport lounge I believe. Quite intelligent I suppose but not that smart as a politician. Too negative, too angry.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
“…Too negative, too angry….”
better to be slick..?..’plausible’ even..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Tell me people, what does a party or an individual in a party really need to do before people wake up and smell the coffee?
P Goof & Pete H, are an utter waste of space, as is That goose Mallard…. if Labour really think they can win an election with these has beens, they are more delusional than they look and act…. Wake the fuck up and get with the Program…..
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
“..Hodgsen is such a dreadful creature,..”
a thing of great beauty yrslf are you..there…?..tvb…?
..turn heads..do ya..?
..got a pic/proof for us…?
..do ya think yr comb-over/sucking in the gut …
… is fooling anyone…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
“..Tell me people, what does a party or an individual in a party really need to do before people wake up and smell the coffee?..
yeah..i’ve been wondering that about ‘ol rog….
..key seems to getting closer to that point tho’…eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Philu you need to smell what you are sittimg in, and I can smell it from here and it is not pretty
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
I thought it was a dead mouse in the heat pump console.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Phil U I am not in politics so it does not matter what I look like. But Hodgsen is so dreadful that he is a political asset to the National Party. Just where do they get his type from. But he will get out of politics soon I suspect. The Labour Party is in the process of trowing off the old guard. Then they bring the new guard forward. And then perhaps, hopefully never, the public might turn to them. Probably when the economy is quite strong. But Labour will have a hard job selling increased taxes on the better paid and giving it to those who they define as poor. The reality is nearly all NZers are poor.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
This makes RRM a sad leftie panda.
Key has such popularity with the moderate public (and deservedly so) that it is gob-smackingly clear to anyone with half a brain that Labour will only hurt their own credibility, not Key’s, by more muck raking… unless they find a smoking gun, with a half-empty box of silver bullets next to it covered in Key’s fingerprints AND a DVD copy of Key confessing his evil plans to the tune of MJ’s Thriller. Do Labour believe their own PR too fervently to see this?
And the really stupid thing is that in six months time, they could dig up watergate or something on Key, and they would get 0% traction with it because by then the Boy Who Cried Wolf phenomenon will have taken full effect.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Labour need to turf Phil and go with a dynamic new leader, pity they have too many beltway factions too allow them to do this inside the current electoral term.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Agreed, Eddie. What do you think it will take for them to recover for 2014? If they lose 2011 badly, I guess one can assume Goff will go (if he hasn’t gone beforehand). Do you reckon King and others from the previous Labour Government will follow? Will this be enough for Labour to “snap out of it” and give the Nats a better run in 2014?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
The National Socialists greatest asset is the Liarbore Party, as an opposition they greatly enhance any parties performance. They could put gloss on a turd and make stinking government policies smell like perfume because what they would offer would be infinitely worst..
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
RRM – congratulations on your candour. Frankly, I think that the “boy who cried wolf” phenomenon might have ALREADY kicked in, given that no media organisation other than 3News seems to want to go anywhere near this story; they’ve been burned too often with “scoops” that over-promise and undeliver. I note that it hasn’t stopped the salivation at The Standard though – funny that …
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Eddie, agree with you, turf Phil Goof out, but the proof is in the pudding, thus far the strategy team obviously dont know shit from clay…. Because each week that rolls by for 2010, of which we are near week 22, they look more and more like a bunch of idiots….. it is part of human nature to sit back and look at the big picture and do a 360 of ones self, obviously this doesnt apply to Labour…..
As always though, like SSB mentions, the Labour opposition are gifting the political scene to National…..
Mallard, Goof and all you old Labour has beens, show some integrity, honesty & humility and get the F out of dodge, you make the place look shabby and untidy…
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
“…Phil U I am not in politics so it does not matter what I look like..”
so..why does it matter what politicians ‘look like’..?
(have you been persuaded/wooed/seduced by ‘slickness’..?
surely it is their politics..?..that matter..
not that they may be a tad lugubrious..?
..eh..?
and if you righties think this one is ‘over’…?
dream on..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
They don’t have much to work with. Carmel Sepulcre, Blackwater Shearer, Porcelain Twyford, Boney Maroney, Helen’s Girl Adern?
Maybe by 2017 Kelvin Davis will have the experience and clout for the job. I used to think Andrew Little might be the go but I can’t see New Zealand putting up with a Pom for PM.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Philip Ure makes another prediction
Just like his prediction for the 2008 NZ election (wrong), the 2010 UK election (wrong) ….
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
global economic meltdown..(ongoing)…?
how did i do on that one..?
surely that’s the ‘big-one’ of recent decades..?
..mmm…?
..and..um..!..you were a mccain/palin-person…eh..?
that didn’t turn out too good/right for you..eh..?
..and speaking of those (sub-prime-driven) meltdown predictions…
adolf the fink had perhaps the howler/gem-comment from that time..(2006-7)
his rejoinder/sneer to one of my links to support the story/prediction was:
“..phil is trying to take down the american economy…singlehanded..”
(brilliant..!..eh..?..)
how did i go adolf…?
would you like some sauce with those words..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Maybe people underestimate Phil Goff. His true allegiance may be to the policies which he advocated in the 1980′s, and perhaps he is now trying to get them implemented by screwing up the opposition.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Perhaps Grant, but incompetence is the more likely explanation.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
you lot spend a lot of time fretting about goff..eh..?
is the one-term-wind..blowing up yr dresses…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
philu, if it doesn’t matter what politicians ‘look like’ why did Helen airbrush her billboard image to the point it didn’t look likre her?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
dunno..ask her….
nuttin’ to do with me…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
To refresh your memory
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/billboards
compare with
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/11/06women_Helen-Clark_EXX3.html
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
All this predictable stuff commenting on DF’s excellent Kiwibank (Wonder how much the NZ Super Fund would invest if 25 % was floated?) summation is boring …… AND about as boring as Granny APN Herald’s Audrey Young who marched around the the NP LNI Conference in Masterton earlier this month with a perpetual snarl on her face …. and then interviewed her laptop. Hintz, Hardingham, Chappel and Scherer would have been horrified …..and may well have fired her. Now, can we talk about Paula Bennett, “Charlie” Chauvel and his (ex? client) lady friend (???) – and the West Coast rip off ?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
This post has got a bit off-topic so don’t mind me if I bring it back into line.
The real issues are actually very simple.
Key’s trust is a blind trust. Mickysavage has put together what seems to be a plausible explanation: http://waitakerenews.blogspot.com/2010/05/can-you-trust-john-key.html
In this explanation he summises that Key’s family trust (trustees = John & Bronagh Key and Ken Whitney) resettled its assets on the new trust (the Aldgate Trust) just after the election. Whitechapel Limited was made the trustee of the Aldgate Trust. Key is neither a director nor a shareholder of Whitechapel, so he has no input into its decisions.
Since the resettlements, we just don’t know what Whitechapel Limited did with the assets it received from Key’s family trust. No one knows what it has sold, bought etc. Key also wouldn’t know because he is not a director of Whitechapel. The likely beneficiary of the Aldgate Trust is probably the trustees of Key’s family trust – Key, his wife and lawyer Ken Whitney.
Since November 2008, Whitechapel could have sold many assets and bought many more, in NZ or overseas, or wherever, and Key quite properly would not know: He is also not legally entitled to know as a trustee of his family trust – the likely beneficiary of the Aldgate Trust.
It sounds confusing I know, but legally quite okay, as the letter from TGT explains.
The only proper issue is how Key supposedly knew he owned a vineyard just a few months ago (if some shares in that vineyard company are owned by Whitechapel Limited). That statement is contradictory to the statement he doesn’t know what assets the Aldgate Trust owns – but it doesn’t mean the trust is not blind.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
I’ve just seen the statement by Key that he has no beneficial interest in Aldgate Trust, therefore he has possibly been removed as a trustee of his family trust as well.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Probably sold everything in the Trust and cashed up ready to buy Lehman shares again!!@
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
“..The only proper issue is how Key supposedly knew he owned a vineyard just a few months ago (if some shares in that vineyard company are owned by Whitechapel Limited). That statement is contradictory to the statement he doesn’t know what assets the Aldgate Trust owns – but it doesn’t mean the trust is not blind…”
how so..?..if he knew…?..as he obviously does..?
how does that prove just the opposite..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
HIV2
You say its Saturday and your brain isn’t engaged ?
God forbid you are an ACT Dreamer, if so, then one must ask, , what month and what day IS it engaged ?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
All of these questions about where or not Key has any knowledge about the trusts holdings are daft. Does anyone truly believe that Key entered politics so that he could influence legislation (eg liquor licensing; for vineyards) to make himself more wealthy? Seriously?
You really need to suspend any concept of reality before any of this would make sense – yet strangely people are taking it seriously because of how it is framed. Think again.
C’mon. John Key is not Philip Field. Key was not a schoolteacher or failed businessperson before he entered parliament. If he was all about his own personal fortune then we would not have him as PM as he would be elsewhere earning a lot more money.
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Inky the red @ 12 something
Smile and Wave has recorded that he has a pecuniary interest in Aldgate Trust as per the registrar, as quoted by him, on that link.
Now Mr Smile and Wave is going public, saying “I know nothing”.
So, is he Helen Klark without balls, or is he Colonial Klink ?
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Jim, we all know the background…
I think Smile and Wave was nieve in the setting up of the trust.
Of course he knows whats in it, he’d be a complete fucking dipstick if he didnt.
But the issue is about Key, not Phillip Field, nor Norm Freelander
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Keys Press release should have read
” sorry guys, part of the Cabinet Rules suggest that I put my investments into a blind trust to hide away a conflict of interest, which I have done. My declarartion in the Register of Interests was a bit silly, because, if I had a Blind Trust, then how would I know if I had one ??
I suspect that there are many members of all parties who would be settlors in Blind Trusts, but only me and a few other dopey members of the house would admit to it.
Rest assured next year I wil not have any beneficial interest in this sort of trust, as I do not know what is in it, just like Bill English’”
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Gooner, Key is the Settlor
Vote:May 29th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
OMG, The Labour-led regime gave us the Owen Glen debacle, the Vella family donations to Winston (unknown to the public at the time of the racing industry tax cuts), the Spencer Trust. Key talks about his vineyard shares a few weeks after they were transfered into a blind trust and Labour go bananas. Unbelievable.
Golem should have learnt from last time.
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 1:01 am
“btw, there would be a nice wee shitfight if the Key’s ever split up”
Says Dirty Rat who implies he understands the intimate inner workings of the Keys well enough to predict an outcome arising from a set of yet-to-emerge complex confluence of future events.
Do you work for The Stranded? You should. You’re really good dude.
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 6:53 am
What Labour hasn’t learned, and shows no signs of learning, is that it is not possible to make your own candle burn brighter by blowing someone else’s out.
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
ahhhh .. good to the the Labour lovers, especially philu, getting all upset by John Keys millions (never said anything about the millions Klark/Cullen/Williams have/had for some reason).
Vote:No-one has asked these jealous pricks what Key should do with his lazy millions. Maybe he should had sold all his shares in whatever once he became an MP and either gave it all away or put into Kiwibank?
May 30th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
“..good to the the Labour lovers, especially philu, getting all upset by John Keys millions..”
um..!..at whoar..i pilloried labour for their failings/failures..eh..?
i am an estranged green..i s’pose..if anything..
..but i also pillory them for their shortcomings..so..
..i amnot a mindless booster of ‘my-team’…unlike most here…
and i amnot ‘upset’ by keys’ wealth..
tho’ i am not the only one who raises an eyebrow over how he made a chunk of it..
..namely..when he was a money-trader…conspiring to destroy the new zealand economy…
..’cos he had bet big bucks that it would…
..and it did..
..and he had a bigtime payout..on the back of our national misery..
..that he helped foment..eh..?
so..y’know..!
..plus..thart he is in the drug-pushing business..(alcohol-division..
..mainly demonstrates the keys’ are very far from being ‘ethical-investors’…eh..?
so..i wd have more respect for him if he used his good fortune..(at least a reasonable chunk of it made off our backs…)..
..for ‘good’…eh..?
..but being a booze-pusher would indicate his portfolio is driven by naught but potential-profit-margins..eh..?
..but ‘jealous’..?
maybe not in the sense that you mean..but i am jealous of the power for good he has at his fingertips..eh..?
..that he chooses not to ‘do good’ with his wealth…
….is a disappointment…
..then of course there is his class-war against the real ‘battlers’ in this country..eh..?
..but ‘jealous’..?
..nah..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
and i am fortunate to have some friends who own some land up north..
..they are all vegans..and own a beautiful valley..with a river running through it..etc..etc..
..and they have a communal house..for communal cooking/computer-internet-access..
..i am also fortunate to spend time with them up there..
..and i know that you can live in a caravan..with a communal house/good people…
..live a totally ‘green” life…with the smallest environmental footprint..
..and live/eat like a king…
it is a model for the future..
..and i know how it works…
..so…’jealous’..?
..of what exactly…?
..(aside from that (un-used) power-for-good…eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
what the fuck are you talking about man .. is that where you get your “supplies”??
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
of course..those with their heads totally up their arses..wouldn’t know what i am talking about…
..and no..i have bitched/moaned long and hard…
..about how crap the dope in northland is..
..flogged-out strains…i reckon…
‘cos..iit can look good..it can smell good…
..and be (usually) weak-as…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:May 30th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Phool:
So a “library” in other words?
Vote: