Fisking the CTU
October 21st, 2010 at 2:45 pm by David FarrarThe Herald has the statements from Peter Jackson and the CTU here.
I was going to fisk the CTU statement, but Russell Brown has done it far better than I could. And yes, that is not a typo.
I do want to first touch on one aspect, quoting the CTU:
Facts on Hobbit
Helen Kelly, CTU President, said today that it is important that some facts about the union stance on the Hobbit are placed before the public.
• The union is seeking basic terms and conditions such as hours, breaks, overtime payments etc.
• The union has always been prepared to agree those conditions as an industry standard rather than a collective agreement.
This is both false and misleading.
First of all the union is not just “seeking” basic terms and conditions. It arranged a global boycott of the film. This is the nuclear bomb when it comes to negotiations.
And like any nuclear bomb, you can’t lob one into battle, and then say afterwards “Oh we’ll try and pretend we never did that and promise not to do it again”. The damage is done the moment it has happened.
The studios want certainty even more than lower cost. It may actually end up in a country where most actors are covered by a union. That is preferable to NZ, because they actually have certainty.
But a union with only 86 or so members that arranges a global boycott of a film is the opposite of stability. It signals run, run away from these lunatics.
Secondly let me quote from the global boycott:
Resolved, that the International Federation of Actors urges each of its affiliates to adopt instructions to their members that no member of any FIA affiliate will agree to act in the theatrical film The Hobbit until such time as the producer has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand providing for satisfactory terms and conditions for all performers employed on the productions
Now re-read what the CTU says:
The union has always been prepared to agree those conditions as an industry standard rather than a collective agreement.
What bullshit. The global boycott was explicitly got a collective agreement. This is not just spin or distortion – it is a total lie.
Now let me quote Russell Brown:
Instead, since its takeover by the Australian Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance, Equity has been so feckless that it failed to file reports for three years, until it was struck off the register of incorporated societies. New Zealand actors have a decent case for greater power and security in their industry. Their union – and the Australian union that was supposed to bring in a new era of professionalism – has failed them.
Eighteen months ago, Equity refused an offer from the Screen Production and Development Association (Spada) to renegotiate the “Pink Book” code of conduct which covers actors’ pay and conditions and has been untouched since the MEAA moved in. Its precondition for any talks with Spada was that the existing system, which does generally work, be scrapped and replaced with collective agreements.
This shows the lies told by the CTU up even more. Not only did MEAA not seek an update to the industry standard, they flat out refused to negotiate such a thing.
There were other things wrong with the union’s strategy, if it can be called that. The way the first meeting in Wellington was run was a disgrace – while anyone who turned up and called themselves a performer was allowed to vote in Auckland, the rules were changed in Wellington after the vote had begun to exclude non-Equity members. One actor trying to read a statement from Jackson (who had been refused permission to address the meeting) was shouted down and couldn’t fnish.
Most notably, statements from organiser Frances Walsh clearly indicated it was seeking to negotiate a national agreement via The Hobbit (why else talk about wanting to negotiate rules on nudity in a film which features no nudity?) and Robyn Malcolm managed to say in successive sentences to John Campbell that they wanted “a fair deal for New Zealand actors working on the Hobbit”, but an agreement that was “not Hobbit-specific”. I’ve explained before why it would have been unethical for Jackson to put himself in that position.
And this is the real game – to try and force all NZ productions to pay the same as The Hobbit.
By the time they’d settled for far less – and finally agreed to talk to Spada without showstopping preconditions — the damage had largely been done. Yes, if Ireland gets the gig, it will be because of its more-generous-than-the-others tax breaks. But the film was going to be made in New Zealand. The door for other countries was opened when MEAA executive Simon Whipp authorised the SAG member alert that brought the production to a halt by banning actors from working on it.
If Warners thinks the industrial relations environment in New Zealand has become too risky and unpredictable, it has some cause for thinking so.
Again, it is not about the lowest cost – it really is about stability. Remember there are two films to be produced – they don’t want to finish one, and then have an unstable union call another boycott or strike to ratchet up demands on the second film.
Some people have a conspiracy theory that it is all about the tax credit, and that this issue is just an excuse. They should consider how much money has already been spent by Jackson and Weta preparing for filing it here – Hobbiton re-established etc.
But it was telling that the CTU’s Helen Kelly said on Nightline last night that the Equity meeting had been called for members to discuss “what they wanted in terms of terms and conditions”.
You’re saying that after all this — you still don’t know what you want?
Amazing.
It’s also generally not a good sign for a union leader, as Kelly did, to refer to the 1000-plus working people who met and marched in Wellington last night, most of them members of their own guilds and unions, as being in a “lynch mob” mood.
So Helen managed to insult hundreds of union members.
None of the other screen guilds have spoken in support of Equity, and they have privately assured both Spada and the government that they are on the side of the producers in this case.
They are the real victims. I’ll be minorly affected in that the NZ economy will take a dive, and that means more debt to be serviced by us as taxpayers. But the 1000s of people who will end up out of work are the ones I really feel for. It’s one thing to lose your job when it is semi-inevitable – in a fading industry etc. But to work in what was a growing healthy industry with a bright future, and to lose your job because of the actions of a few dozen individuals would really piss you off.
Even if the film can be hauled back here – and that’s the state of play – this will have badly damaged relations in the industry. And if the film really is lost, it will damage a lot more than that – the trade union movement included.
This is the part puzzling me. Putting aside ideological differences I have always regarded Helen Kelly as a pretty smart operator, and someone who does try to do the right thing.
But her involvement with this dispute has been disastrous.
Almost everyone involved with this fracas has said that MEAA’s Simon Whipp is the problem – the NZ Actors involved are lightweights. So Whipp is the Aussie bad boy that everyone was blaming (and fairly).
But what Helen has done is change the focus of anger from being the head of an aussie union, to the head of the CTU. She is associating all NZ unions with Simon Whipp’s campaign, and as loath as I am to give advice to the NZ union movement on how to protect their reputation, I have to say that this is a spectacularly bad thing.
The CTU has put out a press release which is factually incorrect and made themselves the target. Why on Earth did they not just assist behind the scenes (where they have done some good I hear), rather than become the de facto spokesperson for the MEAA?
How will the CTU have credibility about protecting Kiwi jobs, if the movies do go overseas?
Oh, and finally, on a related note – I’ve heard nothing on this matter from the temporary and future Labour Party Leaders – surely some journalist has asked Phil Goff and Andrew Little if they support the CTU’s defence of the global boycott against the Hobbit?
Related posts:
- The Australian union and the Hobbit
- Herald on Sunday on The Hobbit
- SPADA v MEAA
- Workers protest against union
October 21st, 2010 at 2:52 pm
The silence has been deafening!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 2:53 pm
If I was an actor or crew with a potential role in this movie I set up the Independent NZ Filmakers Guild and invite all other actors and crew not involved in the Union to join… The only membership requirement being to commit to inidividually negotiate contracts…
Then approach WB to show them are serious about acting and producing this movie under their (and WB’s) own terms…
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 2:58 pm
The world is a freemarket for Warner Bros. they are going to go where they can get the best result for the best price.
Best BANG FOR THE BUCK if the New Zealand actors and actresses are that special they can travel to Czechoslavakia or wherever and audition for the HOBBIT.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:02 pm
It does seem to come back to the comment I made when all this broke – it’s a real shame that the sort of militant actors unions have been bought here. However, unlike the US we won’t be continuing in spite of it, they’ll just move to the next non-US market that has a stable workforce.
But it was so nice to hear Robyn Malcolm on National Radio insisting that the destruction of the film industry was their fault, not the Aussies and just how proud they were of what they’d done (ok, I’m paraphrasing here…)
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Robyn Malcolm, Jennifer Ward-Leyland and Helen Kelly – the “Billion Dollar Babes”.
How can three such patently stupid women create so much mayhem and destruction?
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:09 pm
yet more evidence not that we need it that Unionists like all, Socialists are 2 faced hypocrits.
Whilst they cna march on employers and picket employers NO Way Jose is anyone going to do that to them.
Helen Kelly is a stupid bitch of the highest order. She stands for a discredited corrupt movement hell bent on power for the sake of it.
[DPF: 20 demerits for bitch. That has always been an unacceptable term to use against someone]
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Helen Kelly went feral 6 months ago and the unions default position is to try and hurt the government for Labours benefit. This one has back fired but they still have teachers, lab workers, radiographers etc. to destabalize things.
Vote:Shame Key doesnt have the Thatcher backbone especially seeing as unions currently cover only 9% of private sector workers.
October 21st, 2010 at 3:14 pm
As much a hate saying this – you’re right DPF – CTU have damaged their brand here for no gain. Good on you also for acknowledging Helen’s ethical and hardworking approach…
[DPF: I think Helen is usually a very smart operator, and actually respect the work she normally does. But on this issue she seems to be exercising very bad judgement - it seems to have become very personal for her - calling Peter Jackson a spoilt brat will not help her cause at all]
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I too await the wise words of Phil Goff on this matter (anyone else from the Labour party for that matter) could be a long wait!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Pongo: the left’s default setting (when out of power) is feral.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:22 pm
The Labour Party is obviously in damage control mode. They are heavily moderating comments on the comments section of Trevor Mallard post on this on Red Alert. They are not wanting to be seen to be backing Helen Kelly at all.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Just thinking Labour =Unions or Unions = labour either way I guess they are being quiet, Labour that is as they have a direct association with what is happening (Hobbit potentially heading off shore) Aunty Helen (the one in the UN) must be so proud.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:34 pm
The current union activity is most certainly being organised with the intention to hurt the National government. It’s just so last millennium though, the majority of Kiwis just want to get on with their lives, and will resent being impacted by industrial action with Labour’s clumsy fingerprints all over it. I expect by Christmas National will be riding even higher in the polls.
Further I think 2-hats Little is the man behind the curtain in all this.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:36 pm
JK needs to get a bit of mongrel and deregister the CTU..
He would have huge support from the citizens who can see this mangy lot of morons gearing up to foment trouble in a fragile economy.
Goff the Socialists and the Unions are traitors and must be treated as such. They are determined to wreck the economy for their own political self ends.
They are a relict of the mid 1900s a bunch of cloth cap cloth eared oxygen wasters
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:41 pm
I wouldn’t actually be shocked out of me out of my chair if Kelly actually got the result she wanted. You think Andrew Little is unhappy about it?
Labour and the unions, a two ring cirucs of ideology driven stupidity.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@Gosman yah, right, and Farrar doesn’t moderate comments here?
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:44 pm
drinks-after-worker: not been around here long, have you.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Lastmanstanding says “Helen Kelly is a stupid bitch.” Come on DPF, when I said recently that Mayor Prendergast was a “dumb bitch” I got a warning from you. Is consistency too much to ask? Or is that Kelly is a lefty and Kerry a tory?
[DPF: Fuck, you are stupid. First of all you can not even read English. If you think a complaint deserves demerits, the procedure is to email the abuse address.
Secondly you are right I have been inconsistent. You got off with just a warning. Most people get demerits for that term - as have other commenters who have used it around Helen Kelly.
Thirdly accusing me of bias because I have not responded to a comment within an hour of it being made is pathethic. I have a job. I have multiple jobs in fact. I was in a company board meeting yesterday afternoon and you know for some strange reason they prefer me to be contributing to the boardroom discussions rather than moderating Kiwiblog]
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:46 pm
@D-A-W
That’s a village idiot level comment.
The most polite version would be your comment is ignorant.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I see Helen Keller (oops, Kelly) has responded to Russsll Brown on PA. http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,2769,hard-news-anatomy-of-a-shambles.sm?p=186378#post186378
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Kiwiblog probably has the least heavy handed moderation policy of political blogs that I have come across. Certainly you will have to be posting seriously offensive stuff for DPF to ban you. The Standard will ban you at the drop of a hat.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Tom Gould – do you think DPF reads every comment real-time? The process is that you send him an e-mail pointing out a comment, he comes and moderates. Otherwise, he may not even see it, and it is unreasonable to complain about consistency if you haven’t followed the process.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:06 pm
I got to say that I love The Standard comment posters sometimes, especially when they start thinking anybody expressing Right leaning views must be a paid troll from some secret right wing organisation. Someone was asking where I came from today. I was tempted to say Lower Hutt.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Couldn’t happen to a better person she received her reward.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682119
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Murray, speaking of “ideology driven stupidity” word has it that the Key government took such a hands off approach to film production incentives for that very same reason, they are deeply ideologically against taxpayer funded incentives for film production. The neglect of the Key government in this regard means they certainly have something to answer for. They privately criticised the Clark government for throwing taxpayer money at film production incentives, but the big surpluses of the day and the popularity of the ventures themselves gave them little room to move.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:15 pm
I apologise and withdraw my remark regarding Mssssssssss Kelly. It was out of order and out of character.
Now Back to the subject. Seems to me this would be a great time for JK to call the Socialist and the Unions bluff trying to whip up disorder and deregister the CTU as I said above.
It would finally break the back of this last century edifice and get huge citizen support.
It would also clip the wings of the PSA and the PPTA et al who need putting back in their place as servants of the people.
Come on JK get some balls!!!!!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:15 pm
So what can be done now, to prove to Warner’s they ought to stay committed to filming and post production in NZ?
As said on the other thread, how about:
*Helen Kelly totally acknowledge her/their wrong doing and apologise to Warners, the NZ Film Industry, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and co.
* And promise not to further derail the Hobbit production.
*Robyn Malcolm STFU from now on (including appearing in Green Party propaganda ads and marches – same for Lucy Lawless). Robyn may be a fine actor, but thick as pigshit is she on worldly matters.
* Helen Kelly, AE, all those turkeys, should disown this Simon Whipp prick & MEAA and send him backing to the hole-in-the-ground he belongs in over the ditch and cease all contact with this arse.
* What else?
Clearly there is (was?) an agenda here to “unionise” the NZ acting scene – but they can forget that now, especially with mainstream NZ on their cases.
Clearly there are ways and means to achieve better working conditions (eg as Russell Brown points out), but this is not the time.
Clearly this is not Helen Kelly (and co’s) finest hour. Actually Helen Kelly should step down as head of CTU in disgrace (because of the mass unemployment she and her ilk are about to cause). It would be a fitting gesture (and at least Warner’s might take on board this falling on her sword and committ to filming here).
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Since Warner Bros is coming down to NZ, you would have to say that it is at very short odds that the film is heading overseas. They already have a studio ready and empty in the UK, the settings will be in Ireland. In all businesses and in markets in general, certainty is number one. Also when Australians want to hurt NZ economically, they usually succeed. We know whose finger prints are all over this and so does the NZ public. Quite sad.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Murray, speaking of “ideology driven stupidity” word has it that the Key government took such a hands off approach to film production incentives for that very same reason, they are deeply ideologically against taxpayer funded incentives for film production.
Wow, National led government against handing over wads of cash during recession….
This is my shocked font.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:22 pm
“The neglect of the Key government in this regard means they certainly have something to answer for. ”
No Tom. The only people responsible for this debacle are MEAA in NZ – the Aussies, the CTU, other advisors might have had a part to play, but the decision to act like a bunch of idiots was MEAA’s.
To try and implicate the govt is absolutely fatuous
Tom What A Twit
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:27 pm
According to Barry Soper on NewstalkZB it seems that Robyn Malcom needed a police escort as she left a restaurant last night such was the abuse she was coping from the public.
If this is true then it is nothing more than she deserves, however, I suspect it was nothing more than one or two people and she has beat this story up for political gain.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Funny how unions don’t mind harassing people when they want something, throwing all manner of abuse at them, but turn the tables and its lynch mobs and being called names etc.
they can dish it out but definately cannot take it.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Still a fuckwit today I see tom.
Well keep taking the pills. Or do you think the state should interveen in every industrial negotiation?
You asshole lefties can fling all the poo you like but none of is going to be sticking anywhere you’ll like and Labour wont be tanking you for drawing attention to the matter either.
Its just Kelly whos a failed leftist spin monkey today is it.
[DPF: Murray find an alternate term to fuckwit please, or the demerit fairy will swoop]
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Couldnt agree more Grendel. Fucken union thugs, can give it but not take it.
I wonder how Robyn feels – ruining careers and businesses in her own country. Mind you, she wont be put out – SHE still has Outrageous Fortune to fall back on.
What do the 1500 actors who could have made $5000/week fall back on?
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:51 pm
tonights union meeting has been cancelled due to rising tensions lol spin spin spin
turns out WB’s owns a studio in the UK that will be perfect for the hobbit. harry potter has just wrapped up an moved out.
wonder if helen now realises that yank businessmen cant be fucked with as though they were a pc govt department
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:53 pm
So, basically Helen Kelly, Robyn Malcolm and Jennifer Ward-Lealand have been playing high stakes poker with 1500 jobs that belong to other people, and half a billion dollars that they do not own. Well, it looks like their bluff has been called.
And now they are desperately trying to play smoke and mirriors whilst they pretend they never put that on the table in the first place?
I’m sorry, but the media has been all over this from the word go, and Russell Brown has summed the whole mess up beautifully.
Never bite the hand that feeds!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I wonder how Robyn feels – ruining careers and businesses in her own country. Mind you, she wont be put out – SHE still has Outrageous Fortune to fall back on.
seriously would you remploy her? Of tothe dole que. Clearly the importance of her self and her ego is greater than Holmes, Henry and Carter all rolled into one.
Vote:What a stupid woman.
October 21st, 2010 at 5:07 pm
This whole saga sums up what is wrong with unions and why their powers need to be curbed significantly. They offer nothing constructive and are in fact a destructive force.
But this is a wake-up call this country needs, though I suspect a depression is the only way to jolt this country out of its backward looking self-centred attitude.
Can you imagine this happening in Singapore or Hong Kong? We are on the verge of becoming a laughing stock.
Helen Kelly should be tried for treason.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Words fail me….. how can one bunch of ideological pricks totally mess up a multimillion dollar industry. If it wasn’t for Kiwiblog’s tight line on language this would be a tirade of expletives.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:12 pm
“According to Barry Soper on NewstalkZB it seems that Robyn Malcom needed a police escort as she left a restaurant last night such was the abuse she was coping from the public.”
This is absolutely not true. I’ve heard from many people (more then 10) who were in Matterhorn that the article is way overblown
from one:
“I WAS THERE. This is bullshit. NO BODY SPOKE A SINGLE WORD TO MS.
MALCOLM. Questions were addressed to Mr Whipp by a single questioner
and everyone else was silent. Police did not step in, nor did they
come within 20 mitres of anyone, they watched from the side. More
lies and misinformation.”
You forget that these film industry workers work day in day out side by side with actors. Many actors joined the march last night when the meeting was cancelled. Any anger would be directed at the ozzy union muppet, but he deserves it.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Ah, Murray, what is it with you guys and personal attacks? “Ideological pricks”? “Fucken union thugs”? “Fuckwits”? “Village idiots”? “Patently stupid women”? “Stupid bitch”? “Asshole lefties”? I guess name calling is easier, and reasoned debate is simply beyond you.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Peter Jackson summed it up – What planet are we living on? Indeed!!!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Unions fucked the sheep meat industry so now they start on Kiwiwood, life is a sick act. I feel for our youth today sitting around doing sweet fuck all. No doubt Key will smile his way outta another wet paper bag as Helen plays sex in the city in the big apple. Who needs a bettetr plot?FFS dumbo kiwi!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:28 pm
seriously would you remploy her?
Problem is Viking, that is up to the makers of Outrageous Fortune, and unless be boycott that show either by not buying the DVD’s or changing the channel when it comes on, then she will always be re-hired for that.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Tom: “you guys”. What, kiwiblog is a borg collective? When you feel accountable for some of the nutjobs on the Standard, you can start holding me accountable for Redbaiter’s comments.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:30 pm
The Standard has a Union Retard Policy just like Angry Trev at Redspurt.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:41 pm
You have got it. Kelly went nuclear (probably without realising it) and permanently damaged this countries ability to attract something like a film. By arranging an international boycot she made this country too toxic to make films in. What she does not realise is once production begins the producers become very vulnerable to massive cost over-runs caused through holdups – through strike action (and anything else). Kelly proved just how risky this country could be. I do not expect the producers of the Hobbit to film in NZ and will instruct Jackson to film elsewhere. There may be some post production activity in NZ at Weta but the Union run by Kelly will be firmly fenced OUT. The point to made made to the trade union lady – the damage has been done. There is no rewriting of history.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Since Outrageous Fortune has been mentioned you might want to read this article about how it cost $48 million for 7 seasons and how when the NZ On Air funding came to an end they shut it down so they could spin off another series and reapply for funding under a different program. If work-for-the-dole is slavery, then I guess that makes all the actors on Outrageous Fortune the best paid slaves in New Zealand.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Outrageous Fortune and tax payer funding about sums up this lost the plot cess pit country!!!!!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Don’t remember Robyn Malcolm whining when she got a part in LOTR.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 5:59 pm
So…back to the story about Robyn Malcolm and her police escort from the Wellington restaurant.
It turns out that Robyn Malcolm, champion of the working class and workers rights was dining at the Matterhorn restaurant, and guess who she was dining with?
Yes folks, Helen Kelly……
No cheap and cheerful meal for these two parasites, only top of the range stuff for them, Kelly dines out with the rich and powerful on her salary earned from the union subscriptions of hard working Kiwis, many of whom would never have seen the inside of the Matterhorn restaurant let alone dine there.
Reason 3592 to hate union scum with a passion.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Ok. Looking at this from the producer’s perspective, moving it to Europe because of a small group of 86 people that does not represent the feeling of the majority of workers and actors in NZ makes no logical sense.
Fact: The MEAA stupidly called for a ban until “the producer has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand.”
Allegedly: This threatened production because some of the big name actors were allegedly going to back this boycott.
Fact: Union only represented 86 members. Did not represent the thousands of other workers.
Problem: How can taking it offshore suddenly break the boycott of those big name actors. They’d be bound to the boycott until “the producer has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand.” If the producer took it to eastern Europe, those big name actors are not meant to take part there either. Boycott is global, that’s the whole point.
Additionally: The union also clearly represents very few people in NZ. So if big name actors are not really boycotting (because they’re clearly going to work on it in Europe), and only 86 kiwi actors are boycotting, but going to europe and losing those few 86 kiwi actors is no big deal for the production, then it makes no difference whether you do it here with the thousands of supportive workers and without the 86 workers, or whether you do it overseas.
Further: Let’s be honest many of those 86 will cave anyway when you simply say “we’re going ahead, we can get all the actors we want, you want on, we still want you, but you’ll get the same conditions as these other guys…”
So explain to me how anything changes for the producer by taking it to Europe versus making here? Nothing changes! They still lose the same actors. But they certainly don’t get all the other great actors and film workers, SFX artists, carpenters, etc that made LOTR a huge success if they go to Europe.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:04 pm
By the way….still nothing over at frogblog about the unions costing the nation a fortune and losing 1500 jobs in the process.
Where are you Toad????
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Heh. I’m reminded of some long gone leftie on this site a year or two ago who said something to the effect of: how would you like it if we on the left regularly labeled, or implied, that you lot on the right were facists?
I guess the laughter was worth the new keyboard!
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Outrageous Fortune is also outrageous crap. I don’t see how anyone watches it.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:28 pm
I would like to hear what Celia Wade-Brown has to say about this. What is she first, Mayor of Wellington or member of the Green Party?
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Sonny Blount – Celia is busy playing with her trainset.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:42 pm
“Outrageous Fortune is also outrageous crap. I don’t see how anyone watches it.”
Fletch – Unfortunately the same moronic public watch this shit show thought Jake the Muss was cool in Once Were Warriors.
Vote:And New Zealand wonders why it struggles with a huge array of social issues!!!!! This country is a vile disgrace.
Youth pregnancies, STDs,’ suicide etc fucking etc…..!!!!
October 21st, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Helen Kelly should be had up for ecoomic treason. What an upstart – calling Peter Jackson a “spoilt brat.” She should hang her head in shame, head out to Australia on the first plane, and never return to this country.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Fletch “…Outrageous Fortune is outrageous crap. I don’t see how anyone watches it.”
Are there viewership targets attached to NZ On Air funding?
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:05 pm
“Are there viewership targets attached to NZ On Air funding?”
Haha no way mate, if there were then Maori TV wouldn’t exist.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:09 pm
There were US and UK adaptations of Outrageous Fortune. They were so outrageously crap that they were canned. The US spinoff was called Scoundrels, starring Robyn Malcolm, Helen Kelly, Simon Whipp, Jennifer Ward-Leland, Andrew Little, et al..
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Helen Kelly is the spoilt brat. Never worked at anything and accuses Jackson who spent years and his own money busting his arse to develop the business they have and the business in NZ.
Vote:She is disgraceful, and clearly of the same communist mold that her old man was.
Scum of the earth.
October 21st, 2010 at 7:31 pm
“Helen holds an LLB from Victoria University and is also a qualified teacher. It was in the teaching unions that her long professional involvement with the union movement began, holding senior office with both the New Zealand Institute of Education and the Association of University Staff. She served the AUS as General Secretary for five years until her election as CTU President. ”
Yep….
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:41 pm
@ John Gibson
Vote:So has Helen ever had a job in the private sector?
October 21st, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Brownlee said on Walrus that when Warner arrives he’ll be talking to them about addressing the confidence issue which everyone says is at the heart: that they could get halfway through then start the trouble.
Brownlee was suggesting a legislative change directed at “event-based” employment deals. He didn’t say so but obviously what it would be is when you sign up, provided you keep getting your agreed terms and conditions, you’re not allowed to strike.
Good.
So my question is. If they can get creative in order to deal with this point issue, why can’t the Nats be similarly creative in dealing with the wider union issue which is as some have already said: Nats = guaranteed unrest; Liarbore = all light and moderation.
Why the fuck should the rest of society tolerate this sort of interference in OUR economy? It’s not THEIRS it’s OURS.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Saw Robyn Malcolm and Tandi Wright on Campbell Live, both saying “not our fault.”
Whatever.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Robyn Malcom has some real spinning to do. I suspect she has become unbankable. No more work for her.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Yes and did you notice Rodders that the very intelligent but extremely left-wing Campbell didn’t even (apparently on camera) click as to what the real reason was: (fear of instability halfway through filming).
Instead the intelligent but hopeless and therefore useless lefty gave his best wide-eyed boyish look and kept asking: why is it happening?
Fuck.
“I suspect she has become unbankable. No more work for her.”
Let’s hope so. Maybe Alana Currie or Lawless or Castle-Hughes could help her out with a maid’s job.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:11 pm
This nails it.
http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/yeah-nice-moves/
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:18 pm
If only National would do a Muldoon and deregister the CTU, they would get allot of public support at the moment.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:21 pm
“Putting aside ideological differences I have always regarded Helen Kelly as a pretty smart operator, and someone who does try to do the right thing.”
How can you believe she tries to do the right thing – thats like saying Hitler tried to do the right thing. Helen Kelly tries to do the things that benefit her friends and people she associates with. She is either evil or insane, not smart or well intentioned.
[DPF: First of all it is offensive to compare any NZer to Hitler. Secondly some of the work unions do is valuable and legitimate. There is nothing wrong with a union representing the interests of its members. There is something wrong when they do it in such a way that it will cause massive unemployment]
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:23 pm
It is now slightly after 2000 (8pm) and I have just listened to the News on National radio,
yet, strangely, I have heard absolutely NO comment from ANY Labour party politician – the individuals who would be slavering at the mouth and baying at the door at National FOR ANYTHING.
Their silence is absolutely deafening and very telling, and cannot be explained as ‘Pressure of Work’ in ‘the House’.
Perhaps Mr Mallard (who normally has alot to say about EVERYTHING – even here) and whom we know DOES read these posts, could enlighten us aas to why the silence is so deafening – and perhaps enlighten us about ‘The Party’s’ stance on this whole sordid matter – a matter which the union, specifically Helen Kelly, have monumentally stuffed-up, and earned teh approbation of New Zealand.
Trevor, we are waiting for your ‘Pearls of Wisdom’, please comment and enlighten us, ‘cos if you DON’T, we will have to draw the inevitable conclusion based on your silence (and that of your fellow labour MP’s) – that in fact you SUPPORT what is happening.
So, say it isn’t so Mr Mallard, say it isn’t so.
We’re waiting . . .
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:30 pm
“She is either evil or insane, not smart or well intentioned.”
Yep. Have a look at this clip.
A minute in, Kelly starts talking and tries to pretend it’s all about the conspiracy theory, which it’s not. That’s their spin line and they’ll stick to it. Only an idiot would believe it, as well as just about every journalist in town. You watch how many news stories run that line as opposed to the real reason.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:30 pm
This will sit well for Labour’s re-election hope (Not) especially with a Union Exec waiting to take the reins of power.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Sir Peter looked like a man whose close relative had been killed on close up tonight.
Helen Kelly looked like [deleted by DPF]. She has no idea of the economic and emotional turmoil she is putting others through for her own political ends.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Labour does support the CTU because the CTU is waging the good fight against the bosses and foreigners etc etc. But they’re a little preoccupied attending Hubbard’s seminars on financial investments and giving needed legal advice to the Mongrel Mob over how to avoid the consequnces of bullying your neightbours.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Required reading ladies and gents
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10662530
“Already Kelly has successfully persuaded top American trade union leader Richard Trumka to spurn the Government’s invitation and cancel his visit to New Zealand in February, which was part of a drive to build support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade negotiations.
The partnership is enormously important to New Zealand. It will link seven Asia Pacific economies and is seen as a backdoor avenue for New Zealand to finally forge a free trade agreement with the United States.
The union camp’s reasons for trying to sabotage New Zealand’s international trade linkages are frankly spurious and self-interested.
Already Kelly has successfully persuaded top American trade union leader Richard Trumka to spurn the Government’s invitation and cancel his visit to New Zealand in February, which was part of a drive to build support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade negotiations.
The partnership is enormously important to New Zealand. It will link seven Asia Pacific economies and is seen as a backdoor avenue for New Zealand to finally forge a free trade agreement with the United States.
The union camp’s reasons for trying to sabotage New Zealand’s international trade linkages are frankly spurious and self-interested.”
Fuck you Helen Kelly fuck you very much. Take your hating and wrecking strike and shit stirring and anti NZ for the sake of your mates in Labour and hatred of the current government and shove it up your troughing arse. If you really wnat to go down this class war path which most of us had thought was left behind decades ago you go for it.
The vast numbers of NZers will gut the unions like dogs and that’ll be the end of you once and for all – you’re a fucking disgrace.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:37 pm
@reid, I have to admit that I rarely watch John Campbell as I find him annoying in his fawning over his guests. To be fair, I felt his interview with Peter Jackson and Philippa Boyens was good, but the follow up with Robyn and Tandi was a joke.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Wouldn’t it be funny to see the ratings of one of TV3′s flagship falls plunge through the floor?
Maybe they should do a TVNZ and persuade her to resign. They can stick up a cardboard cutout for the rest of the series; no one will notice the difference.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:57 pm
“If you really want to go down this class war path which most of us had thought was left behind decades ago you go for it. The vast numbers of NZers will gut the unions like dogs and that’ll be the end of you once and for all – you’re a fucking disgrace.”
Very well said Deep Throat although some of us never thought it was ever left behind, just asleep while their approved partners were at the wheel.
If there ever was a time for the Nats to slam the fuck out of scum unions, this is it.
Bet they don’t.
Hope they do. Permanently.
I have no problem with a workforce union doing its job in the workplace. I have a huge problem with any union playing in the national political arena. That’s not what they’re there for. If they want to lobby, then do it behind closed doors, like other lobby groups do. Don’t cause strikes simply to bolster your side of the govt and beat down the other side of the govt, that’s not your place and not your role, in any democracy.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Had to go and look at that (close up http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/s2010-e211010-video-3839653 )
A couple of gems:
Peter Jackson “I don’t think Helen Kelly has a clue, and I think she should probably just go home, would be the best thing she could do”
Then toward the end Helen Kelly claimed Gerry Brownlee had previously said to her that the industrial relations issues was not among the concerns Warner Bro’s had, to which Gerry outright said she was lying. I’m hoping that will be followed up on as one of them must have been lying.
Overall I think Helen Kelly might just as well have had horns and a tail, she’ll be long considered as the devil in this.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I don’t want to turn this into a ‘slag-off-nz-actor’ day, but I saw Tandi in that local TV show “This Is Not My Life”. The show itself wasn’t too bad, but most of the actors were very bad. Every week I would say to the people watching it with me, “that woman (Tandi) can’t act”. Every week you were watching her watching her act. The only standouts in that show were the main male role and the woman playing Dr Collins.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:08 pm
The left destroys, the right creates.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:09 pm
@Fletch, I am reminded of a British spoof awards ceremony where the best performance award was given to the sofa.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Wow is Helen Kelly taking a spanking or what? To have just about the most-esteemed New Zealander alive announce to the nation that you don’t have a clue and it would be better if you stayed home… man that has got to hurt.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Another incomprehensible thing about this is why the CTU is drawing heat from the MEAA. We should be lighting a blowtorch under their wretched, conniving arses.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Reid @ 8:57 blogged
“I have no problem with a workforce union doing its job in the workplace. I have a huge problem with any union playing in the national political arena. That’s not what they’re there for. If they want to lobby, then do it behind closed doors, like other lobby groups do. Don’t cause strikes simply to bolster your side of the govt and beat down the other side of the govt, that’s not your place and not your role, in any democracy.”
As I have said, It appears that the union movement is actively working with Labour to de-stabilise our economic recovery. I hope that is not the case, but given that the president of the EPMU is the Labour President, and that Helen Kelly was a Keynote Speaker at the conference, I begin to wonder if more is going on.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Have to disagree with you DPF.
“I have always regarded Helen Kelly as a pretty smart operator, and someone who does try to do the right thing.”
She’s always been an idiot of the highest order who MO has been to stick it to the corporate fat cats first, look after workers second.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 9:59 pm
“As I have said, It appears that the union movement is actively working with Labour to de-stabilise our economic recovery.”
Yes well many of us here including myself were predicting industrial unrest well before the last election. It was oh-so foreseeable when you’re dealing with lefty fanatics. They don’t care. It’s for the cause.
It’s the pwinciple.
Strange isn’t it how they apparently fail utterly to see the complete lack of principle in their own actions. Look at the PPTA for another example. They obviously don’t give a fuck about their pupils whom they CLAIM to care so much about, striking over unreasonable demands right on exam time.
That’s why I say they’re fanatics – they show all the symptoms. The really execrable part is they think they’re on the side of truth and justice.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Good God, the silly bint from the CTU is still banging on about how righteous they have been. I really really really hope that the studio sees this and pulls the plug. As dish served up cold.
Vote:October 21st, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Warner Brothers = 1
CTU /MEAA = 0
NZ Film Industry = R.I.P.
Helen Kelly started a gunfight with a used toothpick, while Warners are about to show up with an armoury of hurt.
Kelly started it – and Warners are going to finish it – Key et al won’t have a show of saving this.
I hope Kelly has employed some decent Security – it looks as if she is going to need it for a while.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 12:39 am
There is one positive; The ones hurt most by this Meaa/CTU fuck-up, all the “actors” and “film industry” people are damned near all commynists.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 12:50 am
I asked on Red Alert if the Labour Party stood in solidarity with the CTU on this issue.
My post was deleted by a moderator
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 12:56 am
That’s Labour for you – “Meet the Feebles”.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 1:38 am
Robyn Malcolm and Helen Kelly will now become candidates for Labor at the next election with High List positions.
They have shown that they are true Labor material and have earned their patched jacket so will join the inner sanctum.
Which electorates do you think they will turn up in?
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 1:42 am
I watched the TV interviews on Close Up and Campbell Live.
Also on line at:
http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/jackson-goes-hobbit-offensive-3848212/video
http://www.3news.co.nz/The-Hobbit-Jackson-and-the-actors-speak-out/tabid/367/articleID/182467/Default.aspx
My conclusion is, Robyn Malcolm appears to have pulled her head in and is making it clear that the AE etc, have dropped the blacklist etc, and want to get the Hobbit production underway – no strings attached. (Well apparently anyway). Although I suspect Robyn Malcolm doesn’t want to do further damage to her credibility with her industry colleagues, after all she will have to continue to work with her industry colleagues, production companies and the funding agencies etc. But then she is an actor and can UNDERSTAND the pain and hurt this is all causing. Perhaps I ought to say then “well done Robyn Malcolm (and Tandi whatshername)”. Of course they clearly don’t have a clue how the industry machinations work, are completely naive or stupid but at least they have backed down. An apology would have been in order but wasn’t forthcoming – although I suspect it will if Warners do pull the plug next week, because they will feel shame. (Anyway the best thing Robyn Malcolm could do is step down from her AE spokesperson role (or whatever role she has with them) and disassociate herself from Helen Kelly (if she had any mana that is) – she’s in way over her head. I suspect she won’t though, nor step aside from her other equally naive and stupid role as being a front person with the Greens and their propaganda and lies etc. Perhaps she too is a red blooded marxist – I do hope not).
BUT Public Enemy No 1 (and 2) are still CTU Unionist Helen Kelly (& the Aussie Unionist Simon Whipp Prick). These are the real bastards. They don’t give a shit about the film industry nor seem to UNDERSTAND or care about the effect this is having on its members or the economic benefits to the wider community etc.
I’m loathe to call someone I don’t know a liar, and others here have done today, but she clearly is a first rate LIAR. She stated on the TV News that “her conscious is clear” (!!!!) whilst closing her eyes and looking away when saying so – her body langauge shows her guilt. She lies. Seek out the news clip – can’t recall if it was TVNZ or TV3 now.
So Helen Kelly is playing her end game. She will not, nor is capable, of doing the right thing and backing down or apologising. She won’t. If she dares to try and become involved with Warners next week – it will be game over, not just the Hobbit, but the NZ Film Industry as we know it. (She or CTU better not interfere with next weeks meeting – it now has nothing to do with her or the CTU. It’s for Peter Jackson and the Govt to sort out. As an aside Peter Jackson, I think on Campbell Live said there are 4 other film companies awaiting the outcome of this debarcle as to whether they come to NZ. This is serious shit, that Helen Kelly, CTU (and by association, unwittingly Labour) are quite happy to shit their arses upon.
Helen Kelly is toxic. She’s bad news. Best anyone could do is disassociate from her, whilst she is busy playing control freak rearranging the chairs on the sinking Titanic. She is still spouting her discredited conspiracy theories tonight on the news (about tax breaks, Warners screwing NZ and good faith bargaining etc – more lies, lies and damned lies, all in the face of reality). She is bad news, did I say that already? Bad, bad news. Totally untrustable, zilch credibility.
(Peter Jackson said the conditions were sorted weeks ago for the actors including as we know, the actors getting a slice of the profits. Does that extend to technicians and set builders etc, I wonder? Doubt it).
Well as others have said, yes, this too looks like a (to be very unsuccessful) Union plan to damage National by taking the economy and workers of NZ down with them in the process, in order to shore up support for Labour in 2011. Think PPTA, National Standards (which Australia Labor has pushed thru), 90 Day’s protest (being on probation was already commonplace), and similar ludicris actions in the face of a global recession. Trouble is the public of NZ are smelling dirty rats, so ultimately this will be another failure for Labour and the Unions.
As for MEAA and Simon PWhipp, yes, these bastards too are sabotaging the NZ Film Industry for their own ends.
I really don’t know which is the worse – MEAA or the CTU – both are using each other for their end game, and don’t give a damn about the livelyhoods they are destroying or the future of this country. Let’s be rid of them both.
With apologies to The Specials(?). “Stand down Helen, Stand down”! “Stand down Helen, Stand down”!
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 6:01 am
Helen Kelly isn’t smart. To quietly explain to the crowd of 1500 angry workers why Warner Brothers is going off shore— to make more money—shows that Peter Jackson is right.. she is truly out of touch. Film making is a huge risk something Kelly doesn’t have
Vote:a clue and to move the sets offshore is an expense that Warner Broth. doesn’t want and when New Zealand is desperate for work, words can’t explain the stupidity of it.
October 22nd, 2010 at 7:10 am
Helen seems to be a name that brings ill will to NZ.
Mothers don’t name your kids Helen.
We don’t need them.
One good lesson for many people.
Older people remember what nasty vile people many unionists really were. They were nasty by nature, nasty in intent, nasty physically with many many acts of physical violence towards those that opposed their views.
The new generation is no better and the other members of the new generations that have never seen or felt that nastiness should sit up and take notice.
They need to learn about the Finton Patrick Walshes of the union movement. A man of no scruples who used his gutter fighting upbringing to instill fear in his opponents.
People like Bill Anderson who sole role in life was to torment as many employers as he could on any given day.
One employer I knew said to me ” they have you by the balls everyday and we go to work wondering how hard they are going to squeeze them and in what direction. We have a daily battle with our staff because of them and then we have to do business”.
Unions when run by these psychopaths are destructive organizations.
Long past time the Nats. pulled their teeth. Oh that’s right Bill Birch did. One only has to compare the wharves of today with pre Contract Act behavoir to see the benefits of people being free of coercion.
Vote:Reinstate the Contracts Act Provisions for employees. Disallow bulk Union Membership based on polite contracts between those that agree to disagree then agree with bulk solutions.
October 22nd, 2010 at 7:13 am
Helen Kelly will go to her grave thinking the threat to film elsewhere is a stunt to force the Government to give bigger tax breaks and to give it an excuse to alter Labour laws. However the withdrawal of the boycott and the undertaking not to take industrial action during filming tells me the Union’s actions over the international boycott to go nuclear may have caused real damage and they are backpeddling very fast indeed. NZ is now too risky to make films. I will personally boycott anything Robin Malcom appears in.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 am
“Helen Kelly is toxic. She’s bad news.”
I agree. I also agree that this action is not about the film industry in NZ. I see this as a spiteful, contemptible response on her part to the ‘betrayal’ she said she felt from Key and National over the 90 trial period extension, annual leave trading and [probably most particularly] the rules on union access to the workplace.
She made it quite clear she would ‘get him’ for that and this shows the (start of the) lengths she is prepared to go to to do so. To threaten our film industry and the livelihoods of the people that work in it, not to mention all of the direct and indirect financial benefits to the country from having this production here, is just plain evil. She is a blight on every worker in NZ, not to mention the paid-up union members she is supposed to represent.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 8:40 am
“The statement said reports the union boycott was lifted a number of days ago, and that Warners was asked to delay this announcement, were false.”
As mentioned yesterday she is a liar. She should be called out and shamed. She has almost singlehandedly caused this destruction of an entire industry
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 9:41 am
1. Who paid for the expensive meal. Kelly, Malcom, Union members or the Labour Party?
2. Make no mistake Kelly and Malcom are on their own selffish political agenda.
3. Most unions are run by people with political ambitions which rank ahead of any members ambitions.
4. The Labour party union wing are behind the Paul Henry beatup, the current union stiring.
5. The destructive union stiring is linked back to the political ambitions of the man who has ambitions to be our Prime Minister.
6. Is there any different between the obsessive “my view only” Kelly and other extremists. These types are always destructive like the other terrorists. It is self interest before public interest every time.
7. There should be an offense for economic satotage.
8. Lets start a list Helen kelly’s positive achievements:
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:09 am
Describing Helen Kelly as “just plain evil” is revealing. Suggesting that “she is a liar” who “should be called out and shamed” is also revealing. What is it about the rabid right that inclines them so easily to the lynch mob approach? They must be deeply unhappy people utterly discontented with their lives, needing to demonise someone in order to ease their inner pain. Perhaps they are just a sort of modern day cyber KKK?
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:12 am
Despite my invitation to him to appear here and explain what the labour party’s position on all this is, Trevor Mallard (a frequent viewer and responder on this site) has not appeared to give his beloved party’s viewpoint.
We must therefore conclude that labour SUPPORTS the action.
’nuff said.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 am
I don’t think Kelley is “evil” (arrogant, misguided, sanctimonious certainly), but it’s worth noting it wasn’t a group of far right supporters protesting outside TVNZ calling for the sacking of Paul Henry.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:18 am
Oh Tom, paalleezzzeee.
Helen Kelly & the CTU has an agenda, and don’t get me wrong this is still a “free Country’ and she is entitled to have one.
The attack on the National govt is concerted and planned, this movie episode is just a bit part in the overall strategy, but in this case the weapon misfired.
As with all combatents, if you stick your head up above the parapet, you can reasonably expect it to be shot off.
Yes some of the rhetoric here gets nasty, but why would it not?
Vote:This is a blog site where folk can vent their spleens, even you.
HK could do the same if she so wished.
It is good therapy.
October 22nd, 2010 at 10:19 am
Hey Tom, I just clicked that what you are doing. So funny, you saying that the rabid right are cyber KKK and using the same terms that the unions were using to name and shame employers and marching to get workers sacked. So funny.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:20 am
Ho hum. Another day, another lefty bile upwelling of boilerplate language.
What’s truly revealing is how the likes of Tom Gould have no arguments left to make on this issue.
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 am
I think you are one of those things they talk about that goes around blogs saying deliberately silly things to stir up trouble; an ogre or hobbit or some-such isn’t it?
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:29 am
Can i drag the coments back to a positive manner:
Lets list the positive things Helen kelly has done for the country I will start the list with what i know
1. -
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 10:37 am
Tom,
“Describing Helen Kelly as “just plain evil” is revealing.”
Your defence of her evil – your attempted defence of the indefensible – is truly revealing.
Tom What A Twit (still)
Vote:October 22nd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Here’s the VIDEO of what happened outside matterhorn. Not a single police escort in sight, no threats made.
Robyn Malcom and the unions lied, surprise surprise.
Vote: