More stupidity from Labour

October 20th, 2010 at 8:12 am by David Farrar

has no realistic chance of forming a Government after 2011 election, unless it is with support. The chances of Labour and Greens alone having more seats than National, Maori, United and ACT is remote. However with the they have a fighting chance.

So what do they do. The Herald reports:

Labour MP will try to topple Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples in next year’s election by challenging for his seat.

Mr Jones has confirmed to the Herald he will seek the nomination to stand for Labour in the Maori electorate, which has been Dr Sharples’ stronghold since the Maori Party entered Parliament in 2005.

His challenge will end an apparent tacit agreement by Labour not to stand strong candidates against the two Maori Party co-leaders, who rely on their electorate seats rather than the party vote to be in Parliament.

It will at the least cause Dr Sharples some discomfort in the seat where half the voters gave their party vote to Labour last election.

Mr Jones has taken a no-holds-barred approach to the Maori Party, and especially its leaders, since it became a support partner for National.

Although the Maori Party has consistently expressed willingness to work with either of the major parties in government, Mr Jones said it had become “listless and torpid” with National. He believed it was time for a “more aspirational voice in Maori politics”.

A total strategic blunder that dooms Phil Goff.

In the medium to long term the Maori Party will be mainly in coalition with the Labour Party. But instead of treating them as potential allies, they keep treating them like shit – as they also did to the Greens for many years. This means that their chances of going with Labour in 2011, if they hold balance of power, is significantly diminished.

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48 Responses to “More stupidity from Labour”

  1. Jack McDonald (199 comments) says:

    I agree it is a little unwise. If I were Labour I would stand a strong candidate in Te Tai Hauauru to topple Tariana. Pita Sharples would be more willing to work with Labour than Tariana, and Tariana is the one who Maori Party members and activists are angry with.

    Turia is the main right wing influence in the Maori Party. Take her out.

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  2. the bird is the word (69 comments) says:

    Take out Hone… Please!

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  3. Jack McDonald (199 comments) says:

    Hone would not lose to anyone

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  4. dad4justice (7,765 comments) says:

    “Hone would not lose to anyone”

    Want a few bucks on that bro. KO round one!

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  5. Inventory2 (10,100 comments) says:

    You’re right Jack; which only serves to underline the double standard that exists with regard to racism in New Zealand. Paul Henry has to resign, and is treated as a pariah; OTOH Hone Harawira calls pakeha “white motherf*#kers”, escapes censure by the Race Relations Conciliator, and grows his majority.

    It merely confirms that we are all equal under the law, but that some are more equal than others …

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  6. the bird is the word (69 comments) says:

    Couldn’t agree more Inventory2. Sad but true…

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  7. Jack McDonald (199 comments) says:

    Paul Henry is a state broadcaster who was racist towards the Governor-General and was to others regularly. You can’t censor the views of MP’s. That’s the job of the electorate, if they so wish.

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  8. Inventory2 (10,100 comments) says:

    Jack McDonald said

    You can’t censor the views of MP’s. That’s the job of the electorate, if they so wish.

    That’s bollocks Jack. Harawira did not make the “white motherf*#ker” comment under Parliamentary privilege. He is as open to censorship and to condemnation as you or I would be.

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  9. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    Thank you Phil Goff and Shane Jones. Who would thought.?All these years Phil Goff was actually a National Party plant – just waiting for the right oportunity to strike a blow for National.

    This move is great news. Now we have to see National implement some real change in their second term

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  10. All_on_Red (1,359 comments) says:

    Shhh DPF, never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.

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  11. Yeti (64 comments) says:

    Is it beyond the realms of fantasy that Tugger Jones is doing this deliberately as it diminishes Goff’s chances significantly? If you agree with Mr Hooten next years election is wide open and Labour could do it if they bundle the greens and a resurgent Winston First party.

    Tugger, by ostracising the Racist Party limits the odds that Goff gets in thereby increasing his (somewhat) limited chances at a leadership tilt.

    Or am I seeing plots and schemes where none exist?

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  12. Pete George (22,817 comments) says:

    Harawira made the comment in a private email directed at one person, it is up to those two to deal with what was said. Compared to public TV/radio comments to many people by Henry and Laws, so public apologies were appropriate if they though they should.

    Do Labour not realise there isn’t a Union party? The “Union” may get votes but they don’t bolster potential seat numbers. Labour appear to be giving National a golden opportunity to get a mandate to make significant moves in their second term. I can forgive them caution taking over as a recession starts, but if they don’t do it next time it will fix (fux?) their legacy.

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  13. tvb (4,202 comments) says:

    The labour party thinks the Maori vote is theirs by right going back to the 1930s when they gave them welfare. Hence they think the Maori party are their political enemies and the same attitude applies to the Green Party vote. MMP is weakening the Labour Party coalition with it breaking down in component parts.

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  14. wreck1080 (3,730 comments) says:

    In MMP, memory is short. To me, it seems ‘show me the money’ takes priority over all else.

    The maori party will go with whoever offers the best deal at the time. Although, in saying that you must wonder why labour are trying to annoy the maoris.

    Greens willl always be Labour.

    Act are probably gone by lunchtime.

    Not sure about NZ first. More than likely dead, but could pick up disillusioned first-time national voters . Never underestimate Winnie.

    National have been disappointing traditional right voters. IMHO likely will lose some votes.

    If, Labour/Maori/Greens/Act/NZ First can group together in the next election, surely there is a good chance of Phil Goff victory?

    The self-conflagration of Act is disastrous for National .

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  15. Jack McDonald (199 comments) says:

    “That’s bollocks Jack. Harawira did not make the “white motherf*#ker” comment under Parliamentary privilege. He is as open to censorship and to condemnation as you or I would be.”

    We are not open to censorship. Condemnation, sure. But I point I was making was that Henry is a state broadcaster, he was being funded by the tax payer to make racist remarks. That is not appropriate.

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  16. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    ‘Paul Henry is a state broadcaster who was racist towards the Governor-General and was to others regularly. You can’t censor the views of MP’s. That’s the job of the electorate, if they so wish.’

    Jack is 100% right. Making racist comments is not illegal, however Paul Henry and Hone Harawira both have to answer to someone at the end of the day. In Paul’s case it is his employers at TVNZ and for Hone it is the voters of his electorate.

    Paul Henry offered his resignation and TVNZ accepted. For Hone it will be the voters of Te Tai Tokerau who will judge him at the next election.

    There is no double standard, both have been (rightly) condemned for remarks they have made.

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  17. burt (7,807 comments) says:

    DPF

    You need to remember that Labour being the political arm of the trade unions share the same failing as the unions. The muppets need us to think that one size fits all and that one organisation can serve the best interests of all people. Labour have always campaigned to be all things to all people and that is why they have become no more than a popularist centre party whose only identifiable objective is to be in power.

    Just watch them try and out Maori the Maori party, out Green the Green party and if the polls still fail to turn around they will just promise more and more middle class welfare funded by tax hikes for rich pricks.

    I’m just waiting for Little to become leader and suggest that the only way forward for the Labour party is to have compulsory membership. Of course that might not be popular so perhaps the Labour party could follow the PSA and pay people $1,000/year as a bribe incentive to fund join the union Labour party.

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  18. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    “Jack is 100% right. Making racist comments is not illegal, however Paul Henry and Hone Harawira both have to answer to someone at the end of the day. In Paul’s case it is his employers at TVNZ and for Hone it is the voters of his electorate.”

    Well, not exactly. While in Parliament he is also answerable to his party. They could take action against him as their rules allow. One thing they could do is expel him from caucus (not that they would do that.) That would remove him from govt but not Parliament

    Nonetheless he is answerable now if the MP chose him to be.

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  19. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    Wow Burt that’s insightful, did you think that up by yourself?

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  20. Simon (685 comments) says:

    Shane Does Tamaki Makaurau

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  21. burt (7,807 comments) says:

    YesWeDid

    No, I’m just the messenger so shoot me as much as you like. By the way, any comment on the message?

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  22. JC (909 comments) says:

    This being a bad move by Labour is predicated on Sharples not retiring, on the Maori Party not moving left at the same speed as Labour and that the MP is, or still will be acceptable to Maori at the next election.

    Besides, Goff moving the Party left at the moment, or Jones striking at the MP is just shoring up the left constituency for the longer term.. they can take a few hits until 2012, change the leader and the policies, shore up ties with the Greens, MP etc and strike in 2014.

    JC

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  23. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    @Burt – both the main parties try to be ‘all things to all people’ as they are competing for the same middle ground.

    Labour have a long association with the union movement because that is where they came from. Yes Little will probably be the leader of the Labour party one day but I doubt he will replace Goff, there will likely be a leader between Goff and Little.

    I doubt Labour will ‘out the Green party’ the Greens have a very well defined brand and voter niche. Labour have more chance of picking up some of the Maori seats and support as they have traditionally had that support.

    Labour make no secret of their ‘higher taxes for the wealthy’ policy but ‘bribing people’ is a tin hat comment.

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  24. Nick R (497 comments) says:

    DPF – Only one problem with your theory. It is bollocks. Tariana Turia went on Morning Report this morning talking about how relations between the Maori Party and Labour have improved and that they would be able to work together in the future – without of course promising that they would. That doesn’t mean Labour can’t contest the Maori seats, or that the Maori party expects them to do so. Labour has always contested the Maori seats in the past and it would be astonishing if they stopped now.

    So what your OP suggests to me is that the 9th floor is getting pretty uncomfortable about the tension with the Maori Party, which may be National’s only viable support party after the next election.

    Although if that is right, they won’t like you getting stuck into Honest Hone. Maybe he was just saying the things other people only think…

    [DPF: Nick - first of all your paranoia about me being directed by the 9th floor just makes you look stupid and reflects badly on your employer.

    Secondly no party in the centre ever rules out a major party, as to do so removes almost all their power.

    Thirdly of course Labour should contest the Maori seats. However putting Shane Jones up against Sharples is another matter. Jones has said he wants to destroy the Maori Party. He has total contempt for them.

    Goff has allowed Jones and Mallard to run a campaign of denigration against the Maori Party. If the MP do end up with the balance of power, they will look very stupid.]

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  25. RightNow (6,658 comments) says:

    “bribing people’ is a tin hat comment” – I wish. Last election was a bidding war.

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  26. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    “A total strategic blunder that dooms Phil Goff.”

    At first glance maybe. But what options does it create? – the chance of a conciliatory and magnanomous withdrawal (pardon pun) prior to election, and/or increased party vote, or Maori party respect (except for Hone who will never really like shane much)…

    Things are much tighter than National is prepared to admit (and i would’ve 6 months ago). If I was “9th floor Wayne” I’d be anxious.

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  27. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    k.jones,

    It would seem that both NZ First and ACT are key players in this now. NZ First will cannibalise some of the National vote (but probably a bit of the left vote as well.) If they make it back in with even three MP’s the landscape will be very tight indeed.

    It is quite possible that National could maintain just over 50% in the run up to the election, but it would be a foolish strategy to put all the eggs into one basket and campaign on governing alone (even the perception thereof) – Helen did that and it failed.

    I think National will have to do a deal with ACT to ensure they are back in Parliament – even if they reduced from 5 to, say, 3, it could well make all the difference. And if they do tip a slight majority between National and ACT that will encourage the MP to deal again, thereby shoring up the National-led govt majority (again.)

    It does look like Labour continues to try and sweep up all the entrenched left votes instead of proactively working with its potential coalition partners and putting its resources into trying to lure swing voters away from National. “How to lose friends and infuriate people” – it may be a catchy book title, but it is not a sound political strategy given the position they are currently in.

    Long may it continue however…

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  28. bka (135 comments) says:

    If Labour has strong candidates who would have a chance of winning in the Maori seats it is almost insulting to the voters in those electorates not to put them up. A decent fight over the seats may mean a bigger turnout (including of Maori in normal electorates), and more people who might tick the party vote for Labour if not their candidate.

    Dr Sharples is the kinder, gentler face and the more temperate voice of the Maori Party, as opposed to say, Hone. It is harder for National to work with them, and harder for the MP to take their voters into coalition with National if he is not there.

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  29. Pete George (22,817 comments) says:

    I think National will have to do a deal with ACT to ensure they are back in Parliament

    Shouldn’t they be focussing on doing a deal with us, the people? Then we may ensure they are back in Parliament. Or not.

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  30. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    If I was National I wouldn’t bank on ACT being back in parliament after the election because they won’t, ACT are stuffed, gone.

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  31. Jack5 (4,589 comments) says:

    What effect would there be if NZ First took 10 per cent of the vote and offered to partner Labour?

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  32. James (1,338 comments) says:

    Crap….ACT will take Epsom because National needs them to.The media non issue blow up over Garrett etc doesn’t registar with those ACT relys on to vote for them….being highly intelligent,financially literate informed voters….of which NZ is sadly lacking.

    ACT needs to position itself with a few new core issues ( justice/crime having been sorted to the point theres not a lot more to mine there especially with three strikes having passed) Issues like welfare abuse,tax,the ETS and the climate fraud will appeal to rightests while looking at drug and euthanasia reform and civil liberties will will appeal to the floating liberals.

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  33. kowtow (7,620 comments) says:

    The MMP referendum should include a question on abolishing the colonial era,anachronistic Maori seats. That would be democratic.

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  34. Fisiani (953 comments) says:

    Strange move by Labour.
    If Shane Jones won the seat off Pita Sharples the number of Labour seats in Parliament would REMAIN THE SAME.
    Bizarre but true. The number of list Labour MP’s would diminish by one keeping the total number the same. The Maori Party number would drop by 1 making coalition harder.
    For instance at the last election had Stephen Franks won Wellington Central then Nationals list rank No 58 would not have been in Parliament. Even more bizarrely Grant Robertson would still be in Parliament and their last ranked list member would be out.
    It would have meant that Wellington Central would have been represented by MP’s from National, Labour, Greens and ACT

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  35. backster (2,077 comments) says:

    “His challenge will end an apparent tacit agreement by Labour not to stand strong candidates against the two Maori Party co-leaders, who rely on their electorate seats rather than the party vote to be in Parliament.”

    I doubt any tacit agreement existed. CLARK hated Tariana and I doubt that Labour could find any candidate with the mana of Turia or Sharples in their respective electorates.. It is more likely that Labour will offer Maori a bribe they can’t refuse. Indeed the recent local body elections demonstrated that outrageous promises by the Left easily defeated promises of continued fiscal responsibility by the Right. Expect more of the same at the General Election and quite likely a victory to a coalition of the power hungry.

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  36. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    ‘Crap….ACT will take Epsom because National needs them to.The media non issue blow up over Garrett etc doesn’t registar with those ACT relys on to vote for them….being highly intelligent,financially literate informed voters….of which NZ is sadly lacking.’

    It doesn’t matter how much National needs Epsom to vote ACT it is up to the voters – this is called democracy.

    Funny sort of ‘non-issue’ that results in an MP resigning.

    As for voters ‘being highly intelligent etc ‘ you had better hope they aren’t because any voter that is highly intelligent isn’t going to vote for a dysfunctional, unprincipled party like ACT.

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  37. Bob R (1,336 comments) says:

    ***A total strategic blunder that dooms Phil Goff.

    In the medium to long term the Maori Party will be mainly in coalition with the Labour Party. ***

    Then isn’t the total strategic blunder not abolishing ethnic based seats?

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  38. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    David, Are you getting your information on Maoridom from Tau ( my uncle was the Maori battalion commander don’t you know) Henare ?

    A lot of Maori are very sour on the double standards that some of the Maori party have agreed to over the foreshore,example, pakeha who own foreshore can charge for entry but Maori will not have the same rights for their foreshore.

    A lot of us would prefer the foreshore to go to the crown, ALL OF IT, including that held in fee simple.
    Yes, two wrongs do make a right at times.

    [DPF: Oh yes the biggest land confiscation in history is just what NZ wants.]

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  39. s.russell (1,563 comments) says:

    In the medium to long term the Maori Party will be mainly in coalition with the Labour Party.

    I’m not so sure about that. There are very strong strategic reasons for the Maori Party to prefer working with National.

    * Labour and the Maori Party are direct competitors for votes. National and the Maori Party are not. Getting into bed with someone who wants to kill you is liable to shorten your life expectancy.
    * Note that Labour has a history of destroying any minor party it works with.
    * The credit for any achivements for Maori will always go to Labour in any Labour-Maori-Party alliance. But the credit will always go to the Maori Party in any National-Maori-Party alliance. (Note how well the party’s poll ratings are holding up). This is at least partly because Labour will want such credit, National will NOT want it.
    * There is no point in the MP going with Labour because it will not get for Maori anything (much) that Labour would not have given anyway. The MP is thus rendered irrelevant and its existence threatened. But the MP can make a big difference in alliance with National – getting outcomes that would otherwise not occur – thus proving the MPs worth.

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  40. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    A lot of Maori are very sour on the double standards that some of the Maori party have agreed to over the foreshore,example, pakeha who own foreshore can charge for entry but Maori will not have the same rights for their foreshore.

    Pakeha cannot charge entry if they have Customary title, and neither can Maori.

    Pakeha can charge entry if the have ownership of the land – and guess what! So can Maori!

    This is not a case purely where Maori can’t, but Pakeha can. Its a case of the rights granted under Customary title vs full ownership.

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  41. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    kowtow 11:26 am,

    The MMP referendum should include a question on abolishing the colonial era,anachronistic Maori seats. That would be democratic.

    Amen to that, Kowtow.
    And while we’re at it any thought regarding the introduction of equally racist seats on the Auckland super city council should be nipped in the bud as well.

    The racist Maori Party are little more than prostitutes who are prepared to sell their wares to the highest bidder in return for racist legislation they wish to push through parliament. They will happily prostitute themselves to either National or Labour. Man, have we GOT TO get rid of MMP in conjunction with all the greasy shysters who slip in under the unaccountable Party List vote. We have got to get parliament back to a state where they are accountable to the electorate – where EVERY SINGLE ONE of them are voted in directly by the people, and must answer directly to the people. Anything would be better than the current MMP system which only encourages and fosters lies, deceit, and misrepresentation.

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  42. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    Not a kiwi are you Bevan ?
    If you were you would know that when Maori sold foreshore to the pakeha in the 1800s and noticed pakeha rushing down to put it into fee simple a lot of iwi tried to do the same with their foreshore and land only to be told that right was for pakeha only.
    You will have to do a bit of study on NZ if you are going to be visiting for any time dear boy.

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  43. Shazzadude (505 comments) says:

    I don’t think it’s necessarily a blunder. Shane Jones will not win Tamaki Makaurau, he’ll simply narrow the margin of defeat. He will however get a platform out of it as there will be media interest on this battle.

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  44. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    @S russell

    How do explain the huge Labour party vote in all Maori electorates? The punters obviously think there’s a logical link there….

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  45. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Not a kiwi are you Bevan ?

    What a moron you are – I’m born and bred from the Bay of Plenty.

    If you were you would know that when Maori sold foreshore to the pakeha in the 1800s

    So you admit Maori sold it – therefore have no right to title customary or otherwise?

    and noticed pakeha rushing down to put it into fee simple a lot of iwi tried to do the same with their foreshore and land only to be told that right was for pakeha only.

    Funny, all the times I have been to the beach I have never been charged for it….. Must only be going to Maori beaches that you guys sold eh?

    You will have to do a bit of study on NZ if you are going to be visiting for any time dear boy.

    Sounds like you just made a right arse of yourself.

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  46. Shazzadude (505 comments) says:

    James

    “Crap….ACT will take Epsom because National needs them to.”

    Not if they can’t provide the right with extra list seats. The last two Roy Morgans have ACT at 0.5% and 1%. These numbers would not earn ACT any extra list seats if Hide holds Epsom, therefore there is no incentive for National.

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  47. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    Bevan Since you seem to have trouble with the only language you speak I will type slowly and make it simple for you.
    Iwi sold SOME some forshore to some visitors to NZ, which dear boy using the logic you missed out on getting means they owned the foreshore .

    You will know when you are on white owned foreshore, the visiting owners will charge for people to go on it.

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  48. big bruv (13,279 comments) says:

    It seems that Porno Jones has had a change of heart.

    He gave a good little demonstration of faux outrage in the house today when ACT asked the Attorney general about public access to the beaches.

    I think Porno Jones might have even called Hilary Calvert a racist.

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