A stupid blunder
February 16th, 2011 at 7:40 am by David FarrarTom Hunt at Stuff reports:
The Government has splashed out on 34 new top-of-the-line BMWs that sell for more than $200,000 each.
The Green Party has called the ordering of the cars a disgrace.
But the Internal Affairs Department says it has been three years since the Government bought its last fleet, which will be sold when the new cars start to arrive later this year. …
A spokesman for Prime Minister John Key said this was the same process that had happened for years. “It is standard for a progressive upgrade of the VIP fleet to happen every three years or when the vehicle reaches 90,000 kilometres.”
What’s standard is how unpopular this is. I give the Government a big fail for this move. When Labour did the same in 2008 I put it down to advanced third termitis (when you no longer sense what may be unpopular), but this is even worse as National is in their first term.
It does not matter what the contract said about upgrades, or what level of discount the Government gets upgrading in year three – the only thing the public will remember is a Government saying times are tight having money to buy new BMWs for Ministers. An incredibly stupid blunder.
Someone should have intervened and ensured that any fleet replacement does not take place in election year. Unless one actually wants to lose votes.
Tags: government spending, National
February 16th, 2011 at 7:44 am
Yeah, I reckon this is bullshit too.
While I am suffering relative to the recession (this is the 3rd recessionary year IMHO), the govt does not seem to be restraining it’s own spending in some very obvious ways.
So, if the taxpayers are having to tighten their belts, why is the govt just continuing on as if there are boom times ?
Smacks of arrogance, Do as I say, not as I do!!
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 7:53 am
At least if they had been hybrids or something there could have been a ‘save the planet’ angle, but there isn’t. Just one big bad PR blunder, dumb.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 7:54 am
It would have made sense if they were leased.. but yeah. Poor timing to say the least. And 3 years is nothing for a car these days; my humble Toyota is nearly 20.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 7:54 am
BMWs loose so much of their value too, surely leasing would be a more prudent option?
Great Wall make some competitively priced vehicles..
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 7:58 am
So DPF, you are advocating the government walk away from commercial contracts purely because of the politics?
Vote:That with respect is a rubbish attitude.
Whether you like it or not (and I didn’t like it in 2008) sometimes commercial obligations have to be honoured. More so if you are the government. The end result would be very costly litigation for all concerned.
You would not want you advertisers to have the benefit of their adverts on your site and not pay you?
February 16th, 2011 at 7:59 am
Skoda Superb, about $50k. The motoring editor for The Herald just mentioned this to Mike Hosking. Large, luxurious, made by Volkswagon.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:04 am
DPF.
It may look bad, but I believe that the government is simply honouring the contract signed by the previous administration. What sort of message does it send when the government starts reneging on pre-existing contracts?
What I object to, particularly if the above is the case, is the reporting of it by TVNZ on their news as being the call of the National Government.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:05 am
Pay rises, new cars, give away our rights to visit the beach….
And the rest of you need to tighten your belts.
According to Guyon Espiner the line English used about not being able to get out of this contract is bullshit, it seems the government has an option to upgrade, an option they have been arrogant enough to take up.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:07 am
“What’s standard is how unpopular this is. I give the Government a big fail for this move. When Labour did the same in 2008 I put it down to advanced third termitis (when you no longer sense what may be unpopular), but this is even worse as National is in their first term.
It does not matter what the contract said about upgrades, or what level of discount the Government gets upgrading in year three – the only thing the public will remember is a Government saying times are tight having money to buy new BMWs for Ministers. An incredibly stupid blunder.”
Totally agree.
If you want to jam the public’s ‘apoplectic’ button on full – MP’s flash cars, salary increases and overseas trips is the way to do it.
Sorry John Key – but your phony, spin-doctored, packaged ‘ordinary bloke’ mask is slipping…………………..
Your ‘true blue’ corporate arrogance is coming through – loud and clear.
The decision to buy new BMWs for Ministers has happened on YOUR watch, and you will personally benefit from this decision.
A truly marvellous ‘lead from the front’ – NOT.
‘An incredibly stupid blunder’.
Indeed.
‘Shonky’ John Key strikes again?
Penny Bright
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:13 am
I think it’s important on some occasions to have a new BeeMer to swan around it – especially with foreign ministers and dignitaries. But frankly, a whole fleet of new cars just for the Associate Minister of Racing to get to the airport is over the top, and bad practice.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:16 am
Could they somehow include them in the next Big Wednesday Promo?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:16 am
Blunder my arse. Bill English-But-Not-Economics is trying the classic “our hands are tied by a contract signed by the former government”. I say bollocks to that. Put the contract in the public domain and I bet anything that significant money can be saved by pulling out of the upgraqde.
Also, what’s the mileage done by the current fleet? Give us a list.
These cars will become a emblematic of the National government – can’t change anything done by Labour. Hence totally useless.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:17 am
what a terrible look .. they HAVE to do something to stop this madness. If the contract is solid then there is nothing they can do other than pass the responsibility where it belongs, which seems to be the prev Labour Govt.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:17 am
Trying to sell this as a ‘we had to because it’s in the contract’ when it is an ‘option’ just adds another whole layer of stupidity to the decision.
When is English going to get sick of being wheeled out as the excuse boy time and time again? Is this how Key staves off English’s ability to roll him? By making him look like a prize chump all the time?
Hell, if it was me I’d be saying lets drive them 12 more months at least then if we lose the election it becomes someone else’s problem and if we win we can deal with it in the first year…
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:19 am
How could their judgement be so bad?? It is a big fuck up by the government and it’s issues like this that really stick with voters. Someone needs a boot in the ass for this decision. Imagine how good they would have looked if they had come out and refused to upgrade.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:29 am
there was no contact-compulsion to upgrade…
(that was the off-the-cuff lie offered yesterday…)
there was an option to upgrade…it wasn’t compulsory…
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/cpmmentwhoarthe-govt-tells-lies-about-the-purchase-of-their-new-bmw-ministerial-cars/
does anyone else reckon this beemer-moment will be viewed as the moment national lost the election..?
their whole belt-tightening/cutting preaching chimera …is now in tatters…
they have zip-credibility…
i’d like to see him smile & wave his way out of this one…eh..?
and you have to ask….w.t.f. were they thinking..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:32 am
I would be interested to see a decent financial analysis of this deal taking into account the time value of money, the expected return on the resale of the present fleet and the comparing it with the costs associated with hanging onto them. My guess is that it will be either fiscally neutral or even advantageous to upgrade. If I could afford to buy new or near new BMWs I am fairly sure that, taking maintenance costs and resale values into account it would make economic sense to keep upgrading regularly.
The symbolism is awful, of course. I remember some years ago the Ministry of Transport were offered BMWs for a better price than they were paying for the Holdens and they shied away for fear of the public reaction to the notion of mere traffic cops driving around in up-market cars.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:33 am
What’s wrong with 3 year old BMWs anyway. Morons.
Never let a politican put his\her hand in your pocket.
An end to taxation now.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:42 am
And I can imagine the outcry and wailing and gnashing of teeth if the PM ended up sitting by the side of the road somewhere near Otira waiting for a replacement car to get him to meet the PM of somewhere important, because a 4 year old BMW with 300,000km on the clock karked it.
The noise would be similar to that produced every time one of the Airforce 757s was taken off the flight line because of a broken windscreen.
Anyone who tries to compare the economics of their domestic Corolla with the fleet of vehicles run by DIA is failing to engage their brain, or is just plain thick.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:46 am
Why doesn’t the Government release the terms of the contracts then? I understand that there are commercial sensitivity issues, but putting those to one side for a moment, why can’t they release the parts of the contracts that deal with termination? That way, if they’re telling the truth there is support for what they’re spouting. If they refuse to, well, is it any surprise that people are suspicious and wont trust what they have to say?
More transparency I say.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:48 am
Probably because the buy-back arrangements are part of the commercially sensitive package.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:50 am
“..And I can imagine the outcry and wailing and gnashing of teeth if the PM ended up sitting by the side of the road somewhere near Otira waiting for a replacement car to get him ..”
no david..i think we would laugh..actually..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:53 am
It’s just a pity for Phil he can’t make hay out of it as it was he and his mates who signed us up for this crazy deal in the first place.
Vote:I think Bill English should release the numbers so we can see exactly what kind of deal Labour made.
Cullen always chose the deal that would screw us.
February 16th, 2011 at 8:55 am
Who actually made the decision? Did the government actually get involved, or did some low level flunky just start this upgrade without telling anyone – since the contract said to do it. In short, did someone in the public service cause this problem. I find it hard to believe that cabinet would have discussed this – and if it did, it just goes to show how the tall poppy syndrome in NZ forces the govt to spend time worrying about trivialities instead of getting on with doing what they’re paid for.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:56 am
Is there a mileage profile of the existing cars in the public domain?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 8:58 am
No phool
Only you would giggle. Like the 6yr old blouse you are.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:01 am
A couple of days of bad headlines. But if a Government cannot manage the political fall out from this they do not deserve to be in Government. Governments have to replace cars, they have to keep Government property maintained, Ministers have to travel overseas, MPs and Ministers pay has to be kept up with increases in costs of living. These will always irritate some people. And Newspapers like running stories on people who do not like these things. Shrug off the criticism but do not be too lavish with the spending.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:03 am
You have obviously never owned a BMW.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:03 am
So it’s a bad look to upgrade a fleet of existing vehicles but not a bad look to give away the foreshore and sea bed to a party you’re commited to abolishing,ignore a referendum on parents’ rights, push on with global warming taxes and increase GST…..
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:06 am
I’m pretty sure the National Party aren’t committed to abolishing the Maori Party. Only the Maori seats. They’re quite different things.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:08 am
This is a disgrace. So Bill English says the Govt is “stuck with the contract”, i.e. it’s all the previous Govt’s fault. Really Bill? How about a) disclosing the contract, and b) telling us if the “order” can be cancelled.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Whilst not agreeing with the fleet replacement and as a 100% supporter I would remind you that it was the last lot that purchased the BMWs
My understanding is they paid $113K each which was the usual 30% off retail that the trade gives Gumint rental companies and big feets
However the then Gumint could have bought Chrysler 300C Diesels for $45K each Would have got 2 and a half for the price of a BMW cheaper to run Gumint dont pay tax and duty on fuel and would have run longer.
And although they dont have the BLue Propeller badge on the snout they aint bad cars.
So example 4967 of dumb arse spending by all Gumints.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:11 am
@BlairM 8:13 am
Haven’t you heard that Key has ruled out Winston Peters being a Minister in a post-election National-led Governemnt, Blair?
Agree, DPF. A seriously bad look, and good on Metiria for calling the Government out on it.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:13 am
“Agree, DPF. A seriously bad look, and good on Metiria for calling the Government out on it.”
Despite the fact that the Greens supported the replacement vehicles when Labour were in power.
Example 15,859 of Green party hypocrisy.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:16 am
“You have obviously never owned a BMW”
I have. What’s wrong with a three year old BMW? Most reliable car I ever owned. Better than Audis – which I own now. Audis aren’t nearly as good.
BTW – I think the discounted purchase price, and three year rollover contract, sounds like a great deal. Labour negotiated this? Now that is surprising…..
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:20 am
philu It was YOUR lot that entered into the contract so its YOUR lot who are the cause of the problem.
Now from my knowledge of leasing it could have been a either a finance or an operating lease. It may have had buyback as an option but its dumb in the extreme to enter into a lease with a complusory repurchase at the end of it. Even the NZ Gumint doesnt control the international motor vehicle market.
The smart option would be a 3 year operating lease. That fixes the total costs except fuel on a monthly basis for an agreed ks with a penaly per k if exceeded.
Most CAs recomment this to business owners if they have a regular annual usage.
So Lets see the contract terms with the dollars blanked out and then we can decide if the Socialists did the right thing.
Fairs fair
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Agreed that Audi’s are rubbish Peter.
Have owned several BMW’s and each has digested a reasonable chunk of my Income during ownership. However It wont stop me keeping the one i currently have, or buying more in the future.
Most reliable cars I have ever owned were made by Subaru. Not that they are suitable Government cars
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:27 am
@big bruv 9:13 am
Making things up again, bruv? The Greens would never have supported buying gas guzzlers like that.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:30 am
“..philu It was YOUR lot that entered into the contract so its YOUR lot who are the cause of the problem…”
um..!..no..
(i have voted green since they were there..so hardly ‘my lot’..
and a fact-check for you…
as i reported above…the re-purchase was optional….not compulsory..
that labour-made-me-do-it…was yesterdays’ whopper/big-lie….eh..?
this is…however viewed…an epic-fail…
from now on..whenever any govt mouth preaches restraint/cuts…
..the first/obvious question will be…’but what about the beemers…?’..
wot with their massive tax cuts…and new beemers…
..they really are ‘sharing the pain’…eh..?
(and from an i-want-those-bastards-gone p.o.v…
..all outrage to one side…
…this is ‘brilliant’..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:47 am
Several commentators on this thread have indicated that there exists a contractual obligation to buy new vehicles. Does anyone have proof of this?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:49 am
I saw a few BMW’s this morning parked on the Terrace in Wellington, they still looked like brand new cars, well compared to the crappy looking police cars parked everywhere. Bad look all round, times are tough, belt tightening required but flash new BMW’s for us. Big fail from me.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 9:53 am
I’m more interested to know how many limos are actually needed. This article reported that 34 were ordered originally.
34?! I would have thought that you could get away with half that amount by implementing some kind of booking system, and using taxis for low priority jobs such as the airport. For Wellington airport they should take the excellent wifi equipped Valley Flyer bus service anyhow It’s ridiculous watching MP’s deplane at Wellington and get in separate vehicles to make their way in to Parliament.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:02 am
Agree with the above — why do they need the BMW’s? Could they have looked at something a little more restrained? Maybe a top-of-the-line Toyota or a Holden or something like that.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:06 am
First up, I think this was a stupid move by DIA & govt. As has been pointed out by several above, irrespective of the financial advantage of upgrading now, the potential political fallout in election year is just not worth it. Better to have been seen to be ‘tightening their own belts’ along with their enforcement thereof on the Public Sector and the economy as whole.
As to why 34? That is because the limousine fleet is for use by more than just Cabinet Ministers – not only the Chief Justice but Court of Appeal and Supreme Court judges I think, ex-PMs and spouses, also spouses of Cabinet Ministers. (Not sure on spouses of qualifying judges, but I think they could also be entitled.) I doubt that is an exhaustive list.
Not only does the fleet serve a broad range and number of people, it also has to operate in both Wellington and Auckland (probably still in Christchurch although on a smaller scale.) I suppose an alternative could be to fly the limos around the country to accompany traveling Ministers, although I imagine that would be a tad more expensive.
34 cars is not great a fleet when viewed in that context. (Which is not to say that it is right that all those entitled to use the limos today should continue to be entitled,)
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:08 am
I presume that last comment was in response to my 07:54, except I was not referring to the economics of it at all, simply that cars are much more reliable. Even with 300k on the clock I’d expect a well-maintained, 3yo Beemer to be perfectly reliable. And if their use was that intense, that’s an even better argument for leasing IMHO.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I agree. I was happy to slam Labour when they showed this sort of excess and I think this is a stupid move.
The contract (allegedly) says they have the ‘option’ of renewing the fleet after three years. They are not required to, and given these vehicles are diesels, they will easily handle 200,000km of motoring. As long as the vehicles are looked after I see no reason why not.
After all the Queen was happy to drive around in very old Daimler’s…
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:12 am
They’re only 3 litre diesels. Heavy yes, but pretty economical. Certainly better than Falcon-derived petrol cars in terms of $/km. Of course they’ll never recoup the extra cost over a long Falcon by fuel savings.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:14 am
I didnt realise they bought so many of the suckers.
I think they needed to upgrade some – its not a good luck having the PM and visiting guests cruising around in 3-4 year old cars. (try and keep envy out of your thoughts).
if they paid $110k each.. what was the buy back? 40 grand? its not a bad deal.
i imagine the cars just came out of warranty too.
also, the government shouldnt be breaking contracts. even annette king said this morning that labour signed a 9 year deal.
it amazes me that this issue seems to offend people more than that dpb scumbag last week who called us all assholes for not giving her enough money!
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:17 am
The original quote from DPF said 90,000kms, not 300K. And gave the impression that the lease arrangement was that they were automatically replaced at 90K, which appears to have come round.
Toad, I’m pretty sure the Greens did support the BMWs. If I recall correctly the argument at the time was that the alternative (Holden V8) used far more fuel, the diesel BMW was far “greener”. Problem was, the BMW didn’t come in a low spec model, so it was the full fruit version purchased.
A bit of a lose – lose really. They wanted a long wheelbase vehicle, which makes some sense. The Aussie made ones are crap, and also drink petrol like it’s going out of fashion, which was a problem for the last government’s attempted greenwash. They went with the lesser of two evils – german luxo barges, but with a diesel motor.
As usual, the media like to have a bash at government for something that kind of made sense at the time. And when the Labour govt bought them, I supported it. I support renewing them now. In both cases, it was particularly poor timing and politics, but a very rational decision.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Oh there’s bright Penny in the hen house. The same bright Penny that was commenting yesterday on the Maori funding rip off in Auckland. I’m sure the interviewer said that she was Chairperson of the Finance committee that allocated 3.4 million to waste.
Peoplein glass houses Penny should not throw stanes at the neighbours.
Despite that,these BMW’s and their purchase are like the clauses in the Auckand Super city Bill, that allowed this to happen and the clauses in the about to be foreshore Bill that will be imposed upon all New Zealanders.
Ill considered and arrogant which has rapidly become the hall mark of this National Govt.
Vote:All at the behst of the Maori minority.
Well we could not have the last two without the tangata being able to whisk out to the beech to get their kina in their new BMW’s
It just wouldn’t beappropriate when you rule the country side. Talk about Feudal Lords of Old England. They had nothing on these Maori kings and queens.
February 16th, 2011 at 10:24 am
Apparently Key said they have done around 90k, still in gauranttee mode?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:24 am
The economic benchmark viability for a modern vehicle replacement falls between 5 and 7 years. There can be movement around this dependent on trade in, maintenance sweetners, fuel and insurance offers.
If you are running the numbers at DIA on excel and slotting in a new BMW purchase price of $70K net of GST plus sweetners then certainly it is an investment that ‘stacks up’.
Remember BMW are using this as part of their world wide branding campaign. There is huge value for money prime time coverage where a vast TV audience will see world leaders when visiting NZ being driven in BMWs. In fact, as a result of the huge marketing benefits falling out of the deal BMW are almost giving these cars away.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:25 am
One report suggests these cars will be around for the World Cup.
Vote:Is that a factor?
February 16th, 2011 at 10:27 am
You’re right of course. There are so many things to be pissed about. I half hope they go through with the BMW upgrade so it sticks this useless National government with the “Sorry, we can’t change that; it was done by the last government” emblem.
It’s a brilliantly succinct statement of the uselessness this National government. It can be applied to so many things: 45% increase in government spending during last Labour term, WFF, anti-smacking, etc, etc.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:34 am
The reliability argument is bollocks. A 3-year old diesel with say 100k is almost certainly more reliable than a new car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve. They will be well service, so mechanically they are unlikely to give any trouble for quite a few year to come. The stuff that fails on cars like this are the electronics, and they’re packed full of it, and if electronics don’t fail early on, then they’re pretty reliable well beyond 3 years.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Tinakori: which global audience watches TV coverage of world leaders visiting NZ and being driven around in BMWs? In fact, which world leaders even visit NZ? Sorry, not overly convinced.
My maths goes a bit different. These cars list at $200K. The usually hold 55-60% of retail at 3 years, especially when well maintained, as these have been. So you can sell them for $110K or thereabouts, lets assume you flood the market (there are 34 of them), and sell them for $90K. You’re buying the new ones on a sweetheart deal for $90K. So, economically speaking, you’re swapping a new car for the old one, and it’s costing you next to nothing. You’d be a bloody muggins not to do so. Apart from the politics of it all – but really, did we elect this govt to do stupid things just because they’re politically popular, or to run this place like a business. I know I was hoping for the latter, and I know what any businessman would do if offered that deal.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:40 am
What an arrogant attitude from a minister who should know better, much better:
Finance Minister Bill English last night told One News: “We could go out and buy second-hand cars but one way or another, cars need to be maintained and you have to renew them eventually.”
Leading by example is not something this trougher does, obviously.
Labour-lite risks losing quite a few votes on this matter. Stupidity to the nth degree.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:45 am
PaulL, I think your analysis fails the common sense test. It seems very unlikely that the government signed a contract which allows them to replace their cars every 3 years, at almost zero cost.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:48 am
Malcolm
Vote:1. The thing about common sense, it isn’t so common. (just seemed appropriate)
2. Yes, it seems unlikely that a Labour govt would negotiate such a deal. However, deals like this are not uncommon. In Australia, they happen all the time – it’s how the car companies get cars into the market that they don’t want to admit are grossly overpriced – sell them to fleet buyers, and then they go out on the second hand market relatively quickly at a price that people can actually afford. Everybody makes money.
February 16th, 2011 at 10:49 am
has anyone looked on trademe to see what these 3 year old cars are worth?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Never fails to surprise me how almost every post on here goes on about a contract that I presume they have never seen?.
Vote:Like phool who shows us what an idiot he is,just show me the bloody contract then I will believe you.
February 16th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Paul, yeah I understand that’s one of ways that GM, Chrysler and Ford got into their slow death spirals with their respective rental companies. But I assumed BMW (considered to be almost recession-proof in the car industry) are more astute than that. And have more desirable products.
You may be right. However I suspect if you were, the government would be saying: “This replacement is costing very little”, rather than “Sorry, our hands are tied, it’s all the fault of the last useless government and we haven’t yet figured out how to undo anything they did. But we’re still really good. Honest”.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 10:57 am
andretti – National ministers have stated there is a contract. annette king has stated there is a contract – why would she lie?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:03 am
malcolm – if that is the deal, the contract will have confidentiality clauses that specifically prohibit telling anyone about it. Who would pay $90K for a car second hand that you know cost $90K new. And who would pay $200K new for a car that you know someone else is buying for $90K.
It may be that this is all a screwup, and they’re paying $200K for new cars. But it’s just as plausible that it does make sense to do this.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:07 am
dime
From what I have heard the contract includes the option to upgrade.
The out of touch Labour lite government should not have exercised that option.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:23 am
PaulL – car makers always have dealer promos etc.
Their books would be list price – government discount – marketing levy = price. something like that.
They will be paying fuck all for them.
Maybe someone can find out under the official information act?
Bruv – how do you know it was only an upgrade clause? how much work went into the last deal? BMW may have given tonnes away on the condition that NZ MP’s are driving BMW’s for the best part of a decade. Its not exactly a standard lease.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:29 am
People who don’t know very much about cars got all irate last time, over the BMW badge on the front.
Never mind that the “standard” alternatives that no-one would bat an eyelid over, (LWB Coons or Commys) are expensive cars also.
Never mind that the fuel consumption of these diesel BMWs is sensationally less than the Australian cars our MPs would otherwise be driving, saving thousands of dollars per car over the 3 year/90,000km term.
Never mind the cost of maintenance that cars start to attract at around 100,000km.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:31 am
And does anyone here really think, as the Dompost writer foolishly assumes, that the NZ govt will have paid the full list price for all 34 cars? BMW NZ will have bent over backwards to get this contract.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am
But yes, LOL that there is no money for teacher’s salaries, we’re saving that for Ministerial BMWs…
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Here’s a news article from 3 years ago when the 2008 fleet was purchased.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/388712
The BMW in the picture CR563 is estimated at about 48,769 km.
http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/index.php?plate=cr563
I really hope PaulL is correct about the zero-price thing.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Making things up again, bruv? The Greens would never have supported buying gas guzzlers like that.
Funny… I don’t recall you threatening to withdraw confidence and supply over it.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Not Nationals smartest move in an election year, but fortunately this came out now and not 2 weeks from polling.
It’s a shame our media don’t spend more time on important issues such as Seabed and Foreshore Act, ETS, our bloated welfare state and govt in general, all of which cost NZers far more than a few cars. Oh, we are also borrowing $300M a week but no one seems terribly bothered by that.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 11:54 am
A totally unnecessary PR plunder by the Key government in an election year. Crass and stupid in the current economic climate. The aguments posted here trying to justify the economics are irrelevent.
Election year for this national government is about looking judicious and prudent steering the country through treacherous economic times, keeping the lid on unnecessary government spending is a critical element to that.
National’s only ace up the sleeve is that labour were stupid enough to do the same thing only 3 years ago, the greens prefer pushbikes so no one will take them seriously and ACT has shown its predeliction for enjoying the baubles of office as have the Maori party and Peter Dunne. So maybe it is just us suckers that pay taxes to fund these clowns that will grizzle and moan about it.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Labour, and their Red Alert blog seem to be very very quiet about this so far…. I wonder why? Anyone running a pool on what date and time it comes out that Labour signed a dodgy contract?
I don’t think this is going to hurt the Nats anywhere near as much as it hurt Labour, but Key (not English) needs to clearly spell out what we are obligated to under the original sale contract, and what the penalties are for breaking it.
A Department of Internal Affairs spokesman said the new limousines were bought under the terms of a deal signed by Labour in 2007.
It included a clause stipulating replacement with new vehicles after three years. That contract expires after another three years and the Crown will go back to the open market for its next fleet.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10706548
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
@Bevan 11:44 am
The Greens did not support the last Government on confidence and supply, so there was nothing to withdraw. Do try to get your facts right. The agreement the Greens had with Labour was to co-operate in certain policy areas (energy efficiency and Buy Kiwi Made), not to support them on confidence and supply.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
@Toad:
The Green Party which had supported Labour before the election received no cabinet post (see below), but gained several concessions from the coalition on matters such as energy and transport, and agreed to support the government on matters of confidence and supply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election,_2005
Do try to get your facts right.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Bevan
Toad is trying to rewrite history again, the Greens put up very little resistane to the orginal BMW deal when they were part of the Labour/Green coaliton government.
Only now are they making a fuss, I guess they need to grab any publicity they can get given their falling support levels.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
Looks like he is Bruv, typical socialists – caught telling porkies and with their backs to the wall, all they can come up with is lie lie lie.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
That Wikipedia entry is incorrect, Bevan. The cooperation agreement was to “provide stability to a Labour/Progressive coalition government by co-operating on agreed policy and budget initiatives and not opposing confidence or supply for the term of this Parliament.”
“Not opposing” is different from “supporting”. The Greens abstained on every confidence motion and money Bill.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Now wait until the local Iwi asks for some “koha” in return for “blessing” the new cards. Bullseye.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
That Wikipedia entry is incorrect, Bevan. The was to “provide stability to a Labour/Progressive coalition government by co-operating on agreed policy and budget initiatives and not opposing confidence or supply for the term of this Parliament.”
“Not opposing” is different from “supporting”. The Green abstained on every confidence motion and money Bill.
Oh bullshit! Thats just a typical political answer – and the public never bought it then, and they won’t buy it now.
By your inaction, you supported the government – and my statement stands, if you were true to yourselves and were aghast at the Labour government buying the original BMW’s you lot should have shown some spine and thrown down the gauntlet and refused your support. But like the spineless tools you are – you did NOTHING.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Imagine using Toads denial in an everyday circumstance:
“But officer, I didn’t help that guy break into that shop. I just stood and watched him while he took the cash out of the register, then he used the money to buy him a new pair of jeans and new shoes for me.”
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Give English’s support for this horrible blunder, I look forward to some decisive action from the prime minister Key on this matter.
I expect him to announce the issue has been settled and new cars will not be purchased. He could do that while he smiles and waves.
Yes, Tui ad coming.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Viking2 (3,328) Says:
February 16th, 2011 at 10:20 am
“Oh there’s bright Penny in the hen house. The same bright Penny that was commenting yesterday on the Maori funding rip off in Auckland. I’m sure the interviewer said that she was Chairperson of the Finance committee that allocated 3.4 million to waste.”
errrr….. you’re not confusing Penny BRIGHT (me) with Penny HULSE or Penny WEBSTER are you Viking2?
Or just an unfortunate choice of adjectives perhaps.
http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/AboutCouncil/MayorElectedRepresentatives/Pages/Wardcouncillors.aspx
Rodney
Councillor Penny Webster.Penny Webster
PO Box 166
Warkworth 0941
Ph: (09) 301-0101 ext 6200 or (021) 390-317
E: penny.webster@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz
Councillor Penny Hulse.Penny Hulse (Deputy Mayor)
2a Parklands Avenue
Swanson
Auckland 0612
Ph: (021) 273-4663
E: penny.hulse@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz
_____________________________________________________________
An easy mistake to make – if you don’t do your homework and get your facts straight?
(I’m sure there is enough potential confusion without your assistance ‘Viking 2′
Kind regards
Penny BRIGHT
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wprdpress.com
Vote:Ph: (021) 273-4663
E: penny.hulse@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz
Waitemata and Gulf
February 16th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Future MP for Botany?
Keen to take a $50k wager on that one? I’ll even give you 5-1 odds, I’ll pay you $250k if you get elected, you owe me $50k if you don’t. Deal?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Oops!
Gremlins.
“E: penny.hulse@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz
Waitemata and Gulf”
- shouldn’t have been under MY contact details.
Would hate to add to the confusion.
Apologise is all I can do.
Penny BRIGHT
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
For those asking about KMs on them, you can do three free searches on http://carjam.co.nz. If someone can find a list of numberplates we can probably figure the lot out.
I’ve got five below – three of my free ones, and two others that other people had searched on. All five vehicles were 2.5 years old at the time of the reading (WOF).
CR567, was at 74,416km just over a month ago, and at 2.5 years of age that’ll leave it at 89,299km when it reaches 3 years of age – pretty close to 90,000km.
CR564, was at 71,785km in October
CR563, was at 42,582km in October
CR562, was at 53,997km in October
CR561, was at 42,850km in October
So quite a range there – but certainly the ones that are heading towards 100,000km could do with replacement (resale value will drop rapidly when they hit 100), and I guess it makes sense to buy and sell 34 at a time rather than 1 or 2.
Of course saying that they’re due for replacement doesn’t mean that they should be replaced with $200k BMWs…
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
All the district nurses and other useful people around here drive Hyundai Getz. Less than $20K each. Government already has a good deal for buying these For most uses Getz would be quite suitable to replace the BMWs. Maybe get the odd Camry for when ministers carpool together.
Vote:Getz should be the only car provided as self drive to ministers etc.
February 16th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
“# Gwilly (117) Says:
February 16th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Not National’s smartest move in an election year, but fortunately this came out now and not 2 weeks from polling.
It’s a shame our media don’t spend more time on important issues such as Seabed and Foreshore Act, ETS, our bloated welfare state and govt in general, all of which cost NZers far more than a few cars.
Oh, we are also borrowing $300M a week but no one seems terribly bothered by that. ”
I’m VERY bothered about the ‘debt’ and to whom it is owed ‘Gwilly’.
Haven’t you seen this 3 minute You tube clip where I ask John Key to his face at a Grey Power meeting if he is personally profiting from NZ’s growing indebtedness?
(Given his stated pecuniary interest in the Bank of America?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwNoaOpDMw
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
PS: Bevan – sorry – but I don’t have any spare cash to have a punt on the Botany by-election.
Probably just as well – I’d hate you to lose your money!
PPS: ‘raw’ You Tube coverage of the first candidates debate 15 February 2011:
Seen this?
Botany By Election Candidates Forum
7.30 – 9.30PM, Tuesday 15 February 2011
EAST CITY WESLEYAN CHURCH
219 BURSWOOD DRIVE, BOTANY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78LINO0-bXE
Each of the following five candidates in the NZ Botany by-election campaign for the new Botany MP had 4 minutes to explain who they are are why people should vote for them.
Alphabetically:
Penny Bright
Lyn Murphy
Jami-Lee Ross
Michael Wood
Paul Young
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
PS: Bevan – sorry – but I don’t have any spare cash to have a punt on the Botany by-election.
Probably just as well – I’d hate you to lose your money!
Yeah right, if you were so certain I’d be loosing money – you wouldn’t be worried about ‘spare cash’.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Sorry Bevan – I don’t have any spare cash.
I take calculated risks – but I’m not really a ‘punter’ when it comes to money.
Unlike you Bevan – who obviously has HEAPS of $$$$ to throw away?
Kind regards!
Penny Bright
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Unlike you Bevan – who obviously has HEAPS of $$$$ to throw away?
Nah, I don’t even own my own house yet. And I don’t consider a guaranteed $50k to be throwing away money. Well, I guess I will throw some down a strippers g-string, but hey it will be my money right?
Come on ‘future MP for Botany’, put your money where your mouth is – if you sure you will win, this will be easy money for ya! Tell you what, lets drop the figure down and remove the k to $50, same odds – whadayasay?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I bet the DIA official who decided on the rollover purcase is a Socialist supporter and saw it as a great way to get at the Nats.
Oh but I just followed the contract option which I believe to be in the best economic interests.
Because the numbers would prove the purchase of a new fleet to be the best LONG TERM option in dollars.
Delaying the replacement would add extra costs in maintennace.
BMWs like all Euros are bloody expenses to service after the first 50/75 ooo’s Kms. At 100kms plus even a regular service is 3 to 4 times a quality Jappa like a Lexus.
But of course the DIA official doesnt have to consider the political fall out.
I would love to track down the little bastard Anyone got any ideas
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Penny please go away and stop spamming a good blog with unreadable crap.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Penny please go away and stop spamming a good blog with unreadable crap.
Hmmmm, unreadable crap….
*Click*
Oh shit! Is she phool’s sister?
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
nickb
It is your job to arrange a union between Penny and Phool, that may be the only way we end up with some peace.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
Imagine their offspring…
beneficiaries AND batshit crazy.
Vote:February 16th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Imagine their offspring…
beneficiaries AND batshit crazy.
Oh fuck you! I’m eating!
Vote:February 17th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Keeping focussed on the issues – seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zht3kVIwaX0
Arguably the ‘key’ issue in the Botany by-election – ASSET SALES?
A 3+ minute You Tube clip with the five candidates at the Botany by-election ‘Candidates Forum’ held on 15 February 2011 – each briefly outlining their position on asset sales:
Penny Bright INDEPENDENT
Paul Young NEW CITIZENS PARTY
Lyn Murphy ACT
Michael Wood LABOUR
Jami-Lee Ross NATIONAL
Also – a question from one of the audience to Jami-Lee Ross, asking :
“How can I vote for you if I’m totally opposed to asset sales?”
“If you’re completely opposed to asset sales, I’m probably not the person for you,” replies young Jami-Lee.
Damn right.
So – who is the candidate with the most uncompromising track record of opposing privatisation – irrespective of which political parties have been in power at central or local government level, over the last 12 years?
Helpful tip – not Labour’s Michael Wood, ACT’s Lyn Murphy or New Citizen’s Party Paul Young…..
I know it won’t be easy to focus on the issue – because the soft option is just to be personal and nasty – (when you don’t have the arguments or perhaps the intellectual capacity for a considered opinion based on facts and evidence) – but have a go!
Just for the novelty factor?
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Vote:February 17th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Penny
If the majority of people voted for asset sales would you accept that as a democratic choice of our society?
Vote:February 17th, 2011 at 11:56 am
To help prove my even-handed approach – here is a You Tube clip of Dick Hubbard having me arrested at an Auckland City Council meeting at the Town Hall on 22 March 2007 – after (unlawfully) denying me speaking rights.
(The cops later dropped the charges.)
22 arrests in defending the public’s right to ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ local government.
21 – 1 to me in court.
Defended myself – never been to University or had a days formal legal training in my life.
What’s your track record in making a stand on principle, to the point of arrest?
REALLY looking forward to ‘swapping notes’ on THAT point…..
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Fiercely INDEPENDENT Public Watchdog – with a proven track record of defending the public interest.
Future MP for Botany?
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Vote:
February 17th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Penny
Can you answer my question please.
Vote: