General Debate 30 June 2011
June 30th, 2011 at 7:26 am by David FarrarAm in a remote part of Scotland with no cellphone or Internet so don’t expect many posts for another day or two. Thanks to Jadis for some timely guest posts.
182 Responses to “General Debate 30 June 2011”
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June 30th, 2011 at 7:32 am
Very peaceful: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/06/28/the-new-forbidden-cartoons-muslim-minnie-and-mickey-mouse/
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:41 am
Pot calls kettle black (no pun intended): http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/5207658/Tone-down-language-Harawira-urged
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:43 am
For the trifecta: a beastly native: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10735377
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:51 am
Cigarette ban kicks in today. Going to be some really grumpy inmates. I wonder if Phillip Morris is going to sue the government on the ground that the legislation breaches basic human rights.
Vote:I also see John Gillies has been invited back to clink after allegedly breaching parole. Didn’t one the the prison guards predict this and say he should not be released?
June 30th, 2011 at 7:54 am
House Speaker John Boehner on ‘Hannity’. Obama is an idiot.
What’s the opinions of leftists on this blog? Mikenmild & Pete George, et al. State clearly what’s your solution to the mounting debt problem?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:55 am
A very Bart Cummingsuesque trifecta Manalo.
Vote:You could have your very own “news aggregation site” way ahead of fill manure’s efforts we miss, NOT
June 30th, 2011 at 8:03 am
US debt problem – reverse Bush-era tax cuts, slash military spending and eliminate agricultural and corporate welfare.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:10 am
Mikemild said…
reverse Bush-era tax cuts
Err, and who’s money is it that you want to tax? Obama’s mum & dad’s money? It is fuck’n private properties of citizens mike. The same is applied everywhere. When you call to raise tax for high earners here in this country as Dr (in whatever) Norman had done recently because he thinks that Govt needs to collect more revenue in order to pay for its socialist redistribution programs, the thing that you must think about is who’s money is it anyway? Is your dad & mum’s money? Do they grow on trees. Or is it Dr (useless) Norman’s mum & dad’s money? Nope. Just think about that. Only mum & dad’s properties that their children can lay claim to. NOT on other people.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:18 am
Mike said…
slash military spending and eliminate agricultural and corporate welfare.
I agree with the need to slash military spending and the elimination of agricultural and corporate welfare, but I disagree on raising taxes. I will also add that social programs must be eliminated first before slashing military spending, because national defense is a primary role of the government. It must maintain a defense force in order to protect the rights of its citizens from external threat.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:23 am
I see the NZD is again at record highs.
I wonder if it is better to wait before buying up the worlds assets with my Kiwis, it could likely get stronger yet when the earthquake reconstruction starts.
Our economy is the 2nd best in the world at the moment (barring Aussie).
Go NZ.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:25 am
I disagree Manolo (7.41am); for all the tripe that Winston Peters speaks, you seldom hear an expletive pass his lips. Hone is now a party leader with added rewards; AND added responsibilities. He needs to clean up his potty mouth.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:26 am
Fiscally the only thing that would save America’s arse would be a time machine. Reversing Clinton’s housing finance stuff ups, Bush (W)’s insane wars & the incumbents medical insurance fiasco would give them a glimmer of hope.
Until, however, I see the de Lorean parked outside the White House I’ll presume it to be another great nation down the toilet.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:34 am
@nasska : The US owe a mind boggling amount of money.
I think when you break down government debt they must be owing close to $60,000USD per citizen. If you break this down by taxpayer, it looks even worse.
But don’t worry, apple will sell more ipods thus rescuing the US from disaster.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:38 am
Boy DPF you must have gone bush in Scotland. My cellphone worked fine when I drove from North Berwick (near Edinburgh) to the Isle Of Lewis via Glencoe and Skye plus ferry from Uig on Sky to Tarbet via Lochmaddie on North Uist and on to Maiavaig on Lewis. It also worked when we drove up the West coast of the mainland and across the North Coast in 2009 as I recall.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:41 am
Funny how the Dems and Labour et al always want to raise taxes to cut a deficit, but then spend and spend to create make-work jobs that are simply an illusion.
The repubs, the Nats and ACT say cut taxes, let the market create jobs, and reduce spending.
It’s the classic Keynes v Friedman debate.
What Labour, the Watermellons and their fellow travellers conveniently forget is that “Government” has no money. It has only our money – held in “trust”.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:45 am
Stuff America’s arse. I don’t really care about their military spending….. but what about OUR military spending?
This bloody government thinks its OK to continue full-steam with their meddling, social engineering and giving other people’s money away – which is NOT their perogative – while destroying all our military capability – which IS one of the core functions of a moral government, to protect its citizens in time of war.
Soon New Zealand’s military forces will consist of just eight equal-opportunity gay/lesbian indigenous transgender culturally aware (read Treaty guidelined) ‘peacekeepers’ all with degrees in international aid work. What a fucking joke we are becoming.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:45 am
IV2 said @ 8:25 am “you seldom hear an expletive pass Winston’s lips”
…when the camera is running.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:49 am
Debt Default Deadline Fast Approaching (Senator Ron Johnston).
A poll on the same interview of Sen. Johnston that asked, would failing to raise the debt limit result in financial catastrophe? 53% said no, it’s an exaggeration and 35% said yes, it would be a catastrophe. The polling result is unbelievable to see that a large majority of individuals in the population are dumb.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:50 am
wreck 1080
It’s a worry. The US have dug themselves into a real hole. As a layman it concerns me that they could do a bit of reading on the history surrounding the fortunes of the USA over the past century or so. They may find that their times of prosperity coincide with the times they are involved in war with half of the rest of the world.
If a desperate half wit like Obama reacted to this information Armageddon is at our doorstep.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:52 am
What is this new word ossterity which all the young women on telly are talking about?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:54 am
And what of the pom selected to be head of Treasury? Anyone know any background? What other country would change its laws so a foreigner could be given a top job?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:55 am
IV2, you are correct, and I’m wrong. For all his defects, the venal Peters has never indulged in profanities, Harawira’s favourite way of expression.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:00 am
The usual xenophobic tripe from joana @ 8.54pm
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:04 am
If John Key and Mr Obama don’t know how to cut spending, then they may as well hire Luke Howison to advise them on how to do it, which is simple really. Luke suggested to start with the following departments during the last election.
Spending, Saving and the ‘Gone By Lunchtime’ (on Friday and Don’t Come back on Monday).
Office for the Children’s Commissioner (he hasn’t stopped the killing, has he)
Families Commission (ditto)
Commerce Commission (AKA Communist Commission)
Ministry for Women’s Affairs
Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs
Ministry for Maori Affairs (let all ‘their people’ organise their own damn affairs)
Race Relations Conciliator (have you noticed him successfully conciliating any races? No, me either)
Ministry of Youth Development (let hoodie-wearers buy their own spray cans)
Ministry of Economic Development (the economy would develop quite nicely without Jim Anderton’s attentions, thank you)
NZQA (provides neither quality, nor assurance)
Housing New Zealand (let the bureaucrats pay for their own holidays, and private house-builders do what they do best)
Department of Building & Housing (why impoverish home owners and house builders to pay for a ministry that does things worse than any house builder in the land?)
Alcohol Advisory Council of New Zealand
Asia New Zealand Foundation
Audit New Zealand, part of Office of the Controller and Auditor-General
Auckland/Waikato Fish and Game Council
Broadcasting Standards Authority
Broadcasting Commission
Central South Island Fish and Game Council
Child, Youth and Family (have they done any of the three any good?)
Creative New Zealand (let creative New Zealanders pay their own way)
Department of Internal Affairs
Department of Labour
Eastern Fish and Game Council
Electrical Workers Registration Board, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Electricity Commission (nice work, guys, well done)
Energy Efficiency & Conservation Authority (ditto)
Energy Safety Service, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Environmental Risk Management Authority
Environment Bay of Plenty
Environment Canterbury
Environment Court, part of Ministry of Justice
Environment Southland
Environment Waikato
Family and Community Services, part of Ministry of Social Development
Fish & Game New Zealand
Gambling Commission (I’m betting they’ll object to this)
Governor-General (we’re a republic now!)
Hawke’s Bay Fish and Game Council
Heartland Services, part of Ministry of Social Development
Human Rights Commission
International Services, part of Ministry of Social Development
Investment New Zealand, part of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise
Measurement and Product Safety Service, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry
Ministry of Consumer Affairs, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Ministry of Economic Development
Ministry of Tourism, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Motor Vehicle Traders Register, part of Ministry of Economic Development
National Advisory Council on the Employment of Women, part of Department of Labour (bet there’s some unemployable women on this ‘council,’ right?)
National Health Committee, part of Ministry of Health
Nelson/Marlborough Fish and Game Council
New Zealand Climate Change Office, part of Ministry for the Environment (haven’t changed much climate so far, no?)
New Zealand Export Credit Office, part of The Treasury
New Zealand Game Bird Habitat Trust Board
New Zealand Geographic Board
New Zealand Sports Drug Agency (if it can’t be funded voluntarily, what argument is there for keeping it?)
New Zealand Teachers Council
New Zealand Trade and Enterprise
New Zealand Valuers Registration Board (let them register themselves)
North Canterbury Fish and Game Council
Northland Fish and Game Council
Overseas Investment Commission (whose only job is to stop overseas investment!)
Otago Fish and Game Council
Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment
Personal Property Securities Register, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Plant Variety Rights Office, part of Ministry of Economic Development
Registrar of Unions, part of Department of Labour
Removal Review Authority
Remuneration Authority, part of Department of Labour
Residence Review Board
Southland Fish and Game Council
Sport and Recreation New Zealand (we did sport well, back before governments started paying for it)
SPEaR, part of Ministry of Social Development
Taranaki Fish and Game Council
Takeovers Panel
Te Mangai Paho ((if Maori broadcasting can’t be funded voluntarily, what argument is there for keeping it?)
Te Matatini Society Incorporated
Tenancy Services, part of Department of Building and Housing
Toi Te Taiao: The Bioethics Council (oh please)
Tourism New Zealand
UNESCO Secretariat for the New Zealand National Commission
Wellington Fish and Game Council
West Coast Fish and Game Council
There is more to Luke’s list which I have pasted only part above from the main link.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:13 am
Is it possible that there is now more disgust, calls of boycotts and action [and Water Pressure] about a book, than the original murder of the two babies, which the book is about?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:17 am
In the US cuts in military spending are needed, but even that’s margin-of-error stuff, not to mention things that also need cutting like “corporate welfare” (fun definitions there also). But even larger stuff like reversing the 2001-2003 tax cuts still does not make the grade. That’s how bad the problem has got – which Lindsey’s WSJ article highlighted.
There was a good example of the simple mindedness of people a couple of months ago when some survey in the US asked people what spending cuts could be made to greatly reduce the deficit. The No. 1 answer was cutting foreign aid.! That’s not much better than “cut defence”.
Clueless. Utterly fucking clueless. It’s all very well dumping on the political class – and I do – but when you’ve got huge chunks of the population that believe stuff like this I really don’t see where it can end well.
Over at PJM, Vodkapundit has some follow-up comments on the WSJ article that set people talking the other day. It’s Delightful, It’s Delicious, It’s Default, digs through the three main options:
He reckons the first is not going to happen and I agree – at least in the normal process. It will happen when things get worse: so they will.
Same here in NZ.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:18 am
John Frederick Gillies….the epitome of all that is wrong with our justice system.
This is the guy who stabbed and paralysed former Constable Nigel Hendrikkse almost 20 years ago…the guy who had $5,000 worth of taxpayer funded laser treatement to remove a tatt reading “Mongrel Mob Forever” on his face…a guy who has racked up 106 convictions, 34 of them for serious violence.
He was released on parole a month ago (no criticism of the Parole Board, he was nearing the very end of his sentence so releasing him on parole gave them some control over what he does) and surprise surprise, he has breached his parole and is now back inside.
If we had had “three strikes” 20 years ago this prick would have a list about 10% of what it is now…the rest of the time he would have been inside.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:23 am
NZ doesn’t face the same fiscal crisis as the US, but the issues are similar and require more revenue and less spending. The current government has really only indulged in tinkering.
Good to see some rationalisation in the Defence Force -getting rid of uniformed jobs that aren’t needed is a start, but we waste of lot of our $1 billion per year military money.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:29 am
So who else is following Bomber vs Cactus?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Yeah, it’s pretty funny.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:41 am
State clearly what’s your solution to the mounting debt problem?
Reduce spending, promote productive business activity with less compliance overheads, pay off debt is an obvious answer – but we have a huge earthquake problem to deal with that has changed things completely. We have to borrow to cover that, at least until the rebuild gets going properly.
Stae clearly what you think should be done about spending/borrowing related to Christchurch.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:47 am
Jeez Bomber is a sad pathetic bastard. As Cactus pointed out, time to leave university. I guess the kids still think he’s cool.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:54 am
I see that the MSM still has still not gone full-Bachmann on Obama’s sorry ass for the boneheaded mistake he made a few days ago
Although it must have been funny when AP reported the apology: if you never red anything other than AP you’d have had no idea what it was all about. Truly Orwellian.
But as this article points out, this was not just a piece of misspeaking. It showed that Obama is both callous and clueless: he got the two soldiers mixed up, even after being at the centre of their MOH awards, because such things (and people) really don’t matter to him.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:16 am
UN-freken-believable.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/north-korea-head-un-conference-disarmament_575920.html
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:17 am
Manolo – Peters doesn’t use harsh language ( his elderly voters would be shocked )but he makes ordinary words harsh with his arrogantly venomous delivery.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:21 am
How more stupid can the UN be? You can only laugh at this:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/north-korea-head-un-conference-disarmament_575920.html
Apologies for the duplication. I just realised Murray had posted the same.
Effing unbelievable!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:31 am
I really enjoyed this piece from Ace of Spades, which explains the Obama election campaigns in terms of a Hollywood movie script:
For 2008 it was simple:
2012 will require something different:
Brutal but deserved.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Nah, he should just put his hands in his pockets and look into the distance a bit, Bartlet-stylez.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Hone Harawira showed that the weight of party (and parliamentary) funding and personnel is sometimes not enough to buy an election result.
If enough ordinary people give their votes for free the result could be priceless.
How much do votes costs? They needn’t cost anything.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:46 am
Funny thing is that Morgan Freeman played one of my all-time favourite movie US Presidents in Deep Impact. Smart but not arrogant: compassionate yet tough; calm but not cold.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Winston Peters does swear, but not on camera.
Vote:He was interviewed one time by Michael Wilson and after the interview had ended, told Wilson “you’re talking a crock of shit, mate” (he was also being filmed for the Holmes programme and the comment was broadcast.) Another time he is reported to have told a woman in a Wellington Bar to “F*** off”. When quizzed about it, he claimed he told her to “Go Away.”
June 30th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Manolo- Did you see that puppy basher on the news last night? He was ever so proud of himself, ‘staunching’ it up in front of his ‘Bros’ and smirking at the cameras…What a tough guy eh?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Lord Monckton has been stirring up the academics in Aussie, an oxymoron if every there was one, the academics saying he is promoting ignorance and superstition. Seems Monckton called the chief federal climate adviser Hitler when calls went out to have his lectures banned in Aussie. Monckton’s speech is entitled “A carbon tax will bankrupt Australia”, seems the intellectual giants promoting climate change are shitting their collective pants. Probably more scared of losing their lofty positions and fat government salaries should they be made out to be nothing but empty bullshitters. What a bunch of gutless wonders, you would think they would welcome a chance to put the boot into an unbeliever.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:04 am
We normally see NZ’s debt position expressed in US dollars. The way the US economy is looking it is not impossible that they may do a Mugabe & continue to print money as a short term panacea.
I’ve a question for those more financially literate than I……if the USD tanks due to hyperinflation are we effectively given a “get out of jail” card in respect to our overseas debt?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:04 am
David Garrett- Wasn’t Gillies also one of the prisoners paid out tens of thousands of compensation in some ‘Breach of Human Rights’ claim a few years ago?? I recall his smug lawyer crowing about it on the news…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:05 am
A man’s home is his castle…
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/5211371/Burglars-can-be-stabbed-in-Britain
June 30th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Longknives: Correct..his lawyer was – If I remember correctly – one of those fearless defenders of “human rights”, Bott or Ellis….
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:16 am
Joana……..His chief qualification seems to be that he was adviser to Gordon BROWN when he was our equivalent of Finance Minister. Whether it was he who advised BROWN to sell Britain’s Gold Bullion at its record low point of $254 an ounce (now $1500) or not is not clear. But BROWN’S decision does seem to have a similarity of purpose to Bill ENGLISH borrowing $380 million a week.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:20 am
We have 4 classes in New Zealand:
1. The ruling class
2. The productive class
3. The dependent class
4. The parasitic class
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Except group 1 are a section of group 4.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Generic Republican Candidate Leads Obama 46% to 42%
Vote:Rasmussen reports: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot
June 30th, 2011 at 11:37 am
David- It’s a shame the rights of the Cop who ended up with a screwdriver in his spine don’t seem quite so important as those of Mr Gillies eh? There is a serious imbalance in this country…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:38 am
Generic:
A theoretical GOP candidate with no human flaws, no specific policy positions and no questionable political history that can be attacked.
You know of someone in the GOP like that?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:38 am
Someone needs to tell the cops that Arthur, they arrested everyone who was a guest in the house on suspicion of murder.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:42 am
tom, generic when referring to a politician of any flavour is unlikely to be synonymous with ‘no human flaws’.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:51 am
“4. The parasitic class”
I believe they prefer the term “unionists”
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:51 am
My point is that such polls are meaningless in terms of determining who is likely to win and not very accurate even in determining how popular (or more precisely, unpopular) a President is.
Hell, the USA is centre-right ideologically (barely), but still split roughly 50:50 in terms of political party support, so 46/42 means nothing. It tells us that President Obambi is in trouble, but that’s nothing we would not know just from looking at the US economy.
Despite all the fawning rubbish from the MSM in 2008 Obama did not win an FDR or LBJ style victory – and that was against one of the more useless GOP candidates that I can remember. That sort of head-to-head comparison will be what counts in future also so I’ll just hold off the comparisons until then.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:57 am
I think we have reached the stage where we have to question whether you can actually believe anyone other than the experts in relation to the Kahui saga.
Vote:If this evidence is credible then there are serious questions to be asked about whether the book should be released. There was also talk on TV three this morning about possible charges against one or both parents in relation to their failure to provide the necessities of life.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5212960/Ex-boyfriend-Macsyna-said-I-did-it
June 30th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
“Manolo- Did you see that puppy basher on the news last night? He was ever so proud of himself, ‘staunching’ it up in front of his ‘Bros’ and smirking at the cameras…What a tough guy eh”
I did. What a fucken piece of shit. He should have been arrested for that face tattoo alone! Yet another violent native who thrives on beating , killing , maiming ..and this bastard has 2 offspring! The cycle continues. I would like to extinguish him.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
tom, my point in posting it was simply that Obama is in trouble.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
“A man was marched to an ATM and forced to withdraw hundreds of dollars by a group of thugs who had bashed his uncle outside their family business.Mr Robson said police were yet to finish interviewing them and taking their statement. But the victims had been able to provide a basic description of the attackers.
“It’s quite a generic description. They were all males in their early 20s and either Maori or Pacific Islanders.”
gee..more violent natives and neanderthal islanders..a blight on the country. I think you and I Manolo need to start a violent native website.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Rightnow.
Vote:Not that you’d find that in the MSM
June 30th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
The real problem here starboard – as Pita Sharples will inform us all – is that Maori are over represented in the discriptions of offenders being given to the police because we are all racists.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@Falafulu Fisi (1,035) Says:
June 30th, 2011 at 7:54 am
House Speaker John Boehner on ‘Hannity’. Obama is an idiot.
What’s the opinions of leftists on this blog? Mikenmild & Pete George, et al. State clearly what’s your solution to the mounting debt problem?
Solution; default on the debt and give the financiers a haircut. (not that I count myself as a leftist)
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
I think you’ll find that “investors” are a far more effective section of the parasitic class.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
I’m inclined towards generational poverty as an explanation, myself.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
yes that would be right Murray. Oh for some self-responsibility and accountability. I largely blame Hulun and her filthy ilk for the shitbags we have living among us now..she/they have ruined this country with their well thought out social engineering. A filthy pox on them all.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
Does anyone else see the total irony in our host being incommunicado in the land where Alexander Graham Bell was born, Edinburgh I think, over 150 years ago.
Vote:They vote overwhelmingly for socialists also, is there any connection?
June 30th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Longknives:
Isn’t that what “mana” is?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
We’re all over the place today
US politics – Obama must still be in the box seat. He has the ernormous advantage of the incumbent and should be able to maintain a fundraising edge over any other candidate. GOP problem is finding a plausible candidate. The US doesn’t look like it will face its real fiscal crisis. Any real solution to that would rquire not only tax hikes but also drastic spending cuts: losing some aircraft carriers and a few divisions; only keeping enough nukes to destroy the world twice over; getting out of Afghanistan, Israel (in a financial sense) and Libya; cutting agricultural subsidies etc, etc
Some comment here today from the usual suspects on the ethnicity of various offenders. Is there anything new to say?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
WhaleOil’s made a pretty hefty allegation that there’s a contract out on his website; to disable or deface:
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/06/whaleleaks-sequel.html
If it’s true, it’s a new low for those who have authorised it.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
“…comment here today from the usual suspects…”
Haha – LMAO
This comes from someone who has so much time on their hands that they can post no fewer than 89 times since 8am Tuesday.
And every one a gem….. (Tui Billboard)
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Elaycee
Interesting that you found the time to count – should I be flattered?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Do I get to use genrational poverty as an excuse Ryan? Or is the term just a bullshit buzz word excuse/
Please yer honour I iz rilly rilly poor n my daddy was rilly rilly poor so I beat a puppy to a bloody spot with a golf club and made out like it wuz a rilly cool thing to do in front of all of my mates in court.
Sorry I take it all back, that actually makes perfect ficking sense doesn’t it.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
mikenmild
..”Some comment here today from the usual suspects on the ethnicity of various offenders. Is there anything new to say?”..
I’m afraid not….we’re stuck with the same offenders of the same ethnicity.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Oh dear. Another prominent journalist who has been found to be making things up”. This time it’s Johann Hari of The Independent, who has talked about the challenge of quoting people correctly.
Unfortunately that has led to people getting stuck into him about other aspects of his (cough) reporting:
Such as his “vivid” reporting from Genoa of the death of anti-globalisation protester Carlo Giuliani: turns out Hari left the scene by taxi before that happened.
Worstal, whose specialty is economics, compiles quite a list of economic features that Hari gets wrong. Not to mention history and even geography (he thought Haiti was an island). And Worstall claims that it’s not anywhere near an exhaustive list.
The real lesson that should be drawn is that Hari is unlikely to be the exception.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
“Some comment here today from the usual suspects on the ethnicity of various offenders”
I know the truth hurts your sort milkymike but all I am doing is sharing common knowledge. I dont remember the last time I ever saw ” Police are looking for a european offender “…nine half times out of ten its a maori or islander. Its a fact mike..a plain hard cold fact. You cant alter it , you cant wrap it up in goggle-de -gook and try and make it something else…its a plain..hard…cold…FACT. Maori and pacific islanders are violent aggressive thugs.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
starboard
My comment is aimed at the motivation behind reminding people of the ethnicity of selected offenders and the motivation for describing people as ‘violent natives’ or neanderthal islanders’. I think everyone knows the poor social statistics for Maori in this country as criminals and victims of crime, to say nothing about less than favourable health, employment and education statistics.
So next time you feel compelled to say something so obvious as Maori commit crime (albeit more offensively), do you think you could offer some solutions?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Mikemild: I did not comment on Gillies ethnicity….but since you insist on making this an issue…the cold fact is that – as Greg Newbold has said – if we had no Maori and PI males we wouldn’t have a violent crime problem….Just why those ethnicities are so massively over-represented in our crime stats, I dont know….but I refuse to buy the “it’s all down to colonization” argument.
I am very familiar with one Pacific country which was never colonized….and its homicide rate per 100,000 population is about 3 – 4 times ours…why would that be do you think?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
mikenmild
starboard is a bit busy so I’ll fill in for him.
1) Statement…Maori commit crime (no extra offense added).
2) Solutions. Take the education that is offered to all New Zealanders, if you can’t feed them, don’t breed them, get a job.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Inventory2: WhaleOil’s made a pretty hefty allegation
Yep, that’s hefty and very specific. It’s a bizarre claim, but I’d be surprised if Whale didn’t have reason to believe it’s true.
If it’s true I’d be astounded if it can be directly linked to high level Labour people. They’ve shown some ineptitude lately but that would be extraordinary – to both attempt it and to be easily linked to it.
Regardless it’s a sad indication of the state of some of our politics.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
milkmilo: “mikenmild (731):
Errr, if you look at the number at 8am Tuesday (640) and then subtract it from the current number (731), it is the number of posts is….. 91 and counting….. Takes 5 seconds to work it out so, no – you shouldn’t be flattered.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
health,employment,education……..
For years the lefties and progressives used the line and still do,”a lack of access to ……..” ,as if it’s whiteys’ or capitalisms’ or some other convenient ism like colonialism etc fault for their (and whatever other minority you care to cry over) problems and when it’s boiled down “lack of access” translates to “couldn’t be bloody arsed”.
They have the same access as everyone else they just couldn’t be arsed.
There you have it,Sociology, Criminology,Gender Studies, Indiginous Studies 101 all sorted in a one liner. They can’t be arsed.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Bollocks.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@ AD 2 19, that is a deep and meaningful rebuttal, please take a minute or two and translate it for the masses.
Vote:The original statement to which you allude certainly had a measure of resonance for me, I wonder if you missed the last word, “problem” on your copy.
Ta very much.
June 30th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Arthur Dent: (or whatever your name is)…I am quoting Dr Greg Newbold, professor of Sociology and Criminologist at the University of Canterbury with whom I discuss criminal stats and criminology generally on a regular basis.
Your eloquent and well argued response simply illustrates your ignorance. If you read my post again, you will see that I say I dont know ( I dont have the certainly of the left of knowing all the answers) why there is the huge disparity between brown and white criminal rates of offending – particularly violent criminal offending – but that there IS such a disparity is simply a matter of fact.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
“I think everyone knows the poor social statistics for Maori in this country as criminals and victims of crime,”
I’m not, enlighten me.
I’m talking about the last three words.
David nice to see you’ve moved up to using actually soruces instead of just working off the top of your head. No charge for the mentoring. Subtle hint, calling people names doesn’t change their minds it just pisses them off. Thats WHY I do it. Whats your reasoning?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Luc Hands-on used to hang on every word that Hari wrote, so it’s not really a shocker that he turns out to be full of shit
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Murray
You could have a look at the crime survey:
http://www.justice.govt.nz/media/media-releases/media-release-archive/survey-provides-valuable-knowledge-of-crime-and-safety
Thanks for the compliment, I’m always happy to provide sources for factual statements. Some of my opinions may be all of my own.
I didn’t call anyone any names, did I?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
I really didn’t want to waste my time rolling in the muck with filth, such was my disgust at the overt racism, but I didn’t want the remark to pass completely unchallenged. I’m surprised my one-word answer needs a translation.
There may be a huge disparity, but that is not what you originally said (or quoted). To suggest that we wouldn’t have violent crime problem if there were no Maori or PI males is self-evident drivel. What? European males don’t commit violent crime? Come on.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
David Garrett said:
‘the cold fact is that – as Greg Newbold has said – if we had no Maori and PI males we wouldn’t have a violent crime problem….Just why those ethnicities are so massively over-represented in our crime stats, I dont know….but I refuse to buy the “it’s all down to colonization” argument.’
It’s generally thought to be similar to the reasons they are over-represented in victim statistics – poverty and lack of education.
If we had no Maori or Pasifika in NZ we would still have violent crime, it would just be concentrated among whatever other group was marginalised in terms of wealth and education.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
I wonder if GILLIES is a descendant of the Bassett Road Machine Gun killer of the same name. He was as mad as a maggot too.
Maori were non violent peace loving family people until the arrival of the Pakeha. They then witnessed a Pakeha woman smacking her child and it all started from there. Official new history.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Looks like someone has succeeded in spiking Whaleoil’s site.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Nookin
Nah – seems to be working OK…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
No; it’s working ok for me…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Seeing as you are quoting Dr Greg Newbold, can you reference his quote properly please, in order for me to address my ignorance and learn more about this fact that “if we had no Maori and PI males we wouldn’t have a violent crime problem”.
You know, Russia has a violent crime problem too. If only they could rid themselves of their Maori and PI males.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
I keep getting an error report. Must be on my machine. Maybe somebody is telling me to get back to work.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@Nookin: It could be a conspiracy! Has Penny been at your computer?
EEEK!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Arthur Dent: send Greg an e-mail…it’s ok, he wont mind if you hide behind a pseudonym in that also….
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
The American version of Chrissy Carter: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/29/access-to-house-gym-one-many-perks-for-ex-rep-weiner/
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
What has my pseudonym got to do with anything?
I’d be really surprised if Greg Newbold would go on record stating “if we had no Maori and PI males we wouldn’t have a violent crime problem”. I credit him with more intelligence than that.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Butting in, probably foolishly, but I think by a “violent crime problem” people such as Greg Newbold are referring to the excess quantity of it, not the total existence of it. Maori & PI are over represented in the stats as to offenders and so extracting those, the stats for the balance of the population is probably a good deal closer to the relatively low violence European and related high income countries.
It should be noted that Maori & PI probably are also over-represented as victims of violent crime as well, typically a violent group is equally or even more so amongst their peer group. The poor for example tend to suffer disproportionately from burglary in terms of numbers if not in total $ value, they’re easier targets generally.
The reasons for the excess of offending though is not racial, but I assert entirely cultural, associated with race of course but not as a cause. There are no simple answers either as long as the grievance industry pays better dealing with the issues constructively.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
David Garrett – do you believe that statement – if we had no Maori or P/I males we would not have a violent crime problem do you really believe that?
I heard somewhere (and stand to be corrected) that 95% of the prison population are men. So if we had no men then that would truely take care of the violent crime probelm!
We all recognise that Maori are over represented in crime figures – thats a fact, but I rarely hear constructive ideas about how we handle the problem – Just lots of people continually harping on about it hoping it will go away.
We dont hear people harping about the positive aspects where Maori are also over represented in such as Music, Sport etc And we rarely hear about other other areas of our society where Maori are acheiving and doing well. Why is that?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Ed
There are no simple answers, but I don’t think the ‘grievance industry’ has anything to do with crime rates.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Wayne
That comment will bring it all out!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Wayne91 – because the media don’t report on postive things as much. Crime often provides an easy, sensational attention grabbing story where most people don’t care about how the criminals (or alleged criminals) are portrayed.
So crime is overrepresented in media coverage. And Maori are overrepresented in criminal activity – but still only about a half?
And it’s made worse by how many people think.
A crime is reported and many people think “bloody criminals”.
Vote:A crime with an identified Maori perp is reported and many people think “bloody Maori”.
June 30th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Ed Snack: Yes, of course you are right…as I recall, Greg’s comment was on National Radio recently, and was probably intended to be shorthand for “…we would not have a SIGNIFICANT violent crime problem if…”
And it’s easy to see why he would say that…if all Maori and PI prisoners were let out, we would halve our prison population overnight…and of those left inside, the reality is that most (aside from the Burton’s and the late unlamented Antonie Dixon) would be high end fraudsters and sex offenders of various kinds, many more of whom are European …in fact sex offenders against children tend to be European…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
“…we would not have a SIGNIFICANT violent crime problem if…”
I’d say “…we would not have AS SIGNIFICANT A violent crime problem if…”
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Wayne91: Another clown who doesn’t read before commenting…
Pete George: I’m afraid you have a point….I dont have the answers….but I despise people who terrorise others with a gun or a knife while robbing them…. whatever race they might be…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
A start would be to de-link the racial aspect. The causes of crime have nothing to do with race, per se. They are related to poverty, health and education. It so happens that in New Zealand, Maori are likely to figure at the bottom of all these areas. A Maori is not poor, ill, uneducated or criminal because he or she is Maori. Correlation is not causation.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
http://bigpeace.com/ier/2011/06/29/energy-chinas-coal-to-liquids-program-not-allowed-in-the-united-states/
China converts coal to oil.
Is this why they bought land over coal deposits in Oz recently?
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_well_give_china_the_coal_well_ban_for_ourselves/
Is this what they will use our coal for?
Vote:Why don’t we do this here too?
June 30th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
anyway…I shall continue highliting the violent crime issue that maori/islanders have dibs on. Im going to be a busy man.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@backster 3 04, it was the scumbag himself, along with Jorgenson who made better progress in the pokey and turned himself around somewhat, then went missing when his car was found in the sea south of Kaikoura where he was supposed to be living with his father.
Vote:I remember the Bassett Rd Machine Gun Murders when Chicago came to town, pretty heavy stuff in those days, would barely raise a headline today.
June 30th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
starboard
Does that need highlighting? As anyone aware of higfh crime rate for Maori?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
say again mike..english..please..
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
sorry, meant ‘unaware of the high crime rate for Maori?’
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@Elaycee
Vote:It’s come right, which all goes to show that if it was Penny’s witchcraft, then it wears off quite quickly enough. Isn’t that comforting to know?
June 30th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Mick Mac
I understand that the technology of producing oil from coal is available in NZ. Trouble will be having the wretched Greens lying down in front of the bulldozers.
Link: http://transtasman.co.nz/home/free-articles/coal-mining-southland-lignite-nzs-peak-oil-saviour.html
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@Nookin – Might have been sorted due to the many, many pins I stuck into the troll doll sitting nearby my laptop…
But it may have all been part of the bigger conspiracy!
Heh.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
phenazepam –
side effects include confusion, disorientation, dizziness, amnesia and collapse
So, the question has to be asked: just how much of this Pineapple Express has Goofy been into lately?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Nookin
Please…not before tea. The thought of Water Woman in a peaked hat & black robes stooped over a cauldron chanting “eye of newt, toe of bat” could turn Parekura Horomia anorexic.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
We hear different people harping on about both. Some – particularly in the last decade or so – regularly construct negative stereotypes about “white men”, as though that were any more monolithic a group than Maori/PI men. Yet don’t see the hypocrisy of this even as they (rightly) take others to task for their negative stereotypes about the latter.
Even though we’re all guilty to some extent of using them, I personally don’t think stereotypes are particularly helpful, and certainly not scientific. Which is partly why Alasdair Thompson got into trouble when he indulged his own.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@nasska – It could be worse – the pikkies of the blog blight in her days as the HART ringleader in the Wairarapa, are the stuff that nightmares are made of…..
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Elaycee
Anorexia & now insomnia! What ever did I do in my youth that made this worthwhile?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@Nasska: Might have been a result of the covert training you did with the CIA.
Oh oh….. I hope Penny doesn’t read that!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Elaycee
“It could be worse …”
Yes Elaycee, it certainly could and I cite Nookin’s generous mention of the mad water woman’s haemorrhoids yesterday as evidence of that horrifying truth.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:13 pm Vote:
June 30th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@thedavincimode:
Too much info tdm – far too much. I’m now struggling to eat dinner…
Bugger.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Chrissakes Arthur Dent, everyone except you knew what was obviously meant by that comment. There is no “shift in position”, just rewording it so there is no room for deliberate misinterpretation by bad-faith commenters like yourself to split hairs over the wording to avoid debating the point. If the only argument you can raise against something is to pretend to mis-understand it, then you don’t have an argument.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Bring it on. The last time I shared a flight with this gentleman it was delayed departing while passengers were re-seated to ‘trim’ the aircraft
As for PubicWartHog, having her here was sport to start with, but it’s become tiresome. Perhaps she could elope with philu?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
Wouldn’t you normally link to WO’s story directly instead of your take on on it?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
A start would be to de-link the racial aspect. The causes of crime have nothing to do with race, per se. They are related to poverty, health and education. It so happens that in New Zealand, Maori are likely to figure at the bottom of all these areas. A Maori is not poor, ill, uneducated or criminal because he or she is Maori. Correlation is not causation.
Indeed, correlation is not causation, mm. So why do many including almost every single academic and every single MSM reporter and every single lefty politician, continually state as if it’s a well known fact, a simple truth against which there is no possible argument, that of course poverty is a causal factor of crime, when it’s not?
Why do they all, including it seems you mm, constantly do that?
I can prove to you it’s not, in a few sentences. And if I can do that, will you admit that you and all those lefty people I just mentioned, have been completely mistaken? Further, if I can do that, will you undertake to challenge said lefties next time you hear any one of them doing it, not so you can be aggressive or anything but simply so you can help me correct this appallingly damaging misconception currently infesting leftyland?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Mikenmild is right – poor income and poor education are the two biggest predictors of crime. Next biggest factor is being related to a recidivist criminal. That is why programmes that are targeted at Maori/PI to reduce crime will not work. Most crime reduction programmes don’t work anyway… the real solution is to change our education system so that we catch and correct poor achievers from an early age – and this is where I praise National Standards!!!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
krazykiwi says: “…PubicWartHog”…. Haha – love it!
But elope with philu? You mean bugger.
Let’s lock the blog blight in a room with milkmilo – they will ‘blah blah blah blah’ each other until nausea sets in … milkmilo will think he knows the answers before the blog blight has even asked the question!
A case of the bionic gob meets the mad hatter.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
the reality is that most (aside from the Burton’s and the late unlamented Antonie Dixon) would be high end fraudsters and sex offenders of various kinds
Even for David Garret the arrogance of this statement is quite stunning.
But back to the first comment about John Gillies and Garrett’s 3 stikes mention (again) , Gillies has 106 convictions, about 60 for violence, if his sentences were served as already on the books he would not have been out to committ about 100 other crimes he has been convicted of . William Bell the same.
We don’t need new laws and crimes we have plenty they just need to be enforced.
And if rape isn’t a crime of violence , well bugger me.
Dixon was a thief first and foremost but he was never properly sentenced so his drug problem escalated and he had a really bad day. Three strikes wouldn’t have got him but some hefty sentences for his car theft rings would have seen him have some big lags early and events may not have unfolded as they did.
Disclaimer: I can’t take anything David Garrett says seriously due to the fact he has probably the saddest conviction in New Zealand history. Thinking he was James Bond or a world class assassin at the time but he goes on to be neither buts he ends up in our Parliament, Jesus wept ……………………………………….
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
As JC (the NZ politician) said:
http://tiny.cc/3jzee
In one of the US censuses, something like 80% of the prison population was illiterate or close to it.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
@ Longknives -
“staunching it up”
That’s a keeper!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
krazykiwi
One of the problems faced by us atheists is seeking interpretations of religious texts. I do, however, hate to cause offense & when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws & how to follow them:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them & the District Council are threatening me with prosecution under the RMA. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day & age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? Alisdair Thompson has gone quiet on the subject & I have tried asking the women directly but most take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male & female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Fijians, but not Australians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Australians?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to knock him off myself?
6. A mate of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this before he orders a dozen oysters & chips?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wriggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play rugby if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm up Eketahuna way. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively & hold that God’s word is eternal & unchanging so I am confident you can help.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
@nasska – ha ha ha. sure i can help. If you spent your time imitating Christ you’d not have time to read Leviticus let alone worry about not being able to own Australian slaves. The buggers were all crims anyhow, so prolly accomplished escape artists.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@nasska – just tried reading that lot to my wife. Laughed so much I cried … despite seeing previous renditions while out’n'about on the interweb thingy. I like your version. Bookmarked.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Nasska
Nothing wrong with owning Australians slaves, I married mine but shes taking a bit of breaking in- another 21 years and I figure she’ll do exactly as I say
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@pauleastbay – you took the blue pill by the sound of it
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
krazykiwi….you’re one of the rare ones…..A Xtian with a sense of humour.
Pauleastbay….21 years??? It’ll pass in a flash.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@nasska – just for you: Prov 17:22. A measured quantity of good quality wine helps too.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Pauleastbay: (why are you so frightened of using your real name Senior Constable? Or did you make it to Sergeant?)
The whole point of 3S was “they” didn’t ever enforce the laws we had on the books…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Two Kiwi’s are working on a building site in Auckland, Patu
and Wiremu. Anyway Patu turns to Wiremu and says “Hey Bro I’ve
gotta take a piss, but theres no where to go, eh”
“Walk out to the end of this plank” replys Wiremu. “I’ll
stand on this end and balance it”
“You sure Wiremu ?”
“Yeah, no worries”
“100%?”
“YEAH !”
So out goes Patu to take a piss and the lunch siren sounds,
Wiremu forgets what he’s supposed to be doing and steps off
the plank and Patu is a gonner.
Some time later an Australian, a Frenchman and a bloke
from New Zealand are sitting in a Bar discussing which of
their respective nations chase women the hardest…
Wazza the Aussie says “Mate I’ve been known to miss a piss
up session down the Pub with me mates while trying to crack
on to Sheila’s!”
Pierre, the Frenchman says “No, No, No, Ve French chase ze
women with much zest and give them gifts of love like French
champagne to win their affection, it is us vor sure”
Meanwhile Bob (the Kiwi) sits laughing and says “No, You
Vote:blokes are both wrong, the other day I was walking past a
Building site in Auckland following a gorgeous looking
Bird, and this bloke came whooshing from the sky with his
dick in his hand screaming: “Fuuuuuucck!”
June 30th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Anyone else consider it rude to hassle Kiwibloggers for using aliases?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Not frightened David
All my details are available just click.
Three strikes will not stop the Dixons, and there are hundreds, simple, three strikes will mop up pub assailants.
The three strikes is cuddle time for voters, it is meant to give an illusion of safety, that politicians are doing something. The reality is as a country we are too poor to keep building prisons. I personally don’t care how much of my tax take is spent on prisons, but I resent politicians grandstanding and using victims.
Another example of political grandstanding is the home invasion section. Burglary has an ample penalty – just granstanding ,giving an illusion.
More grandstanding,- Power removing provocation because a narcissist tried to use it as a defence. The defence never worked and was never going to but, a law change was inacted because people were “outraged” , ( Weatherston is a horrible man, and white also I believe ,and his victims parents were put through hell ) so the politicians meddle and granstand. Provacation was and should be a legitimate defence
Lastly, “they ” have caused me inordinate amounts of frustration over the years because I disagreed with sentencing and verdicts but I would rather trust our High Court bench than elected committee men ( and unelected committee men )who go to our Parliament
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
reid
Regarding your 6.48, you dispute poverty being a causal factor of crime. I’d be interested in the reasoning for that – I can’t find anything to back that up.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Paul
Agreed, 3 strikes is a disaster. One of the problems in this area is that because Parliament makes laws, a politicians first instinct is to change a law, or write a new one. This is especially evident in the law and order debate (if it could be called a debate – it’s usually more like a one-sided tirade to ‘get tough’).
One of the most prevalent illusions is that the judiciary is soft on crime, hence the demands for ‘truth in sentencing’, ‘three strikes’ and other such nonsense.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Poor isn’t a cause of crime its an excuse when you get caught. Plenty of poor people never get a conviction
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
I think the racial debate is very interesting, considering that we all supposedly originated from Africa.
From my interactions with Maori/Pacific Islanders – the vast majority (especially the young) are stupid and almost bordering on retarded – they have bad hygiene, can’t count and would rob you blind given half a chance.
Is this because of their upbringing, a genetic trait, social conditioning, what? Are they thick on purpose?
Asians seem to do very well for themselves in New Zealand, despite having less opportunities given to them as a “minority”.
Disclaimer: The High School I went to had one Maori in my class – she now represents NZ at UN in Geneva. Very bright girl and will no doubt be a National candidate in the near future.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Represents NZ at the UN and will be a National candidate……….. I can’t wait to see this , probably about the same time we have pig shit landing on our head
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Regarding your 6.48, you dispute poverty being a causal factor of crime. I’d be interested in the reasoning for that – I can’t find anything to back that up.
No well you wouldn’t because the academic world doesn’t want to talk about this particular inconvenient truth, mm.
You said earlier:
It’s generally thought to be similar to the reasons they are over-represented in victim statistics – poverty and lack of education.
I think it’s true you can say a lack of education means you’re a victim, provided that lack never arose through your own, deliberate choice, such as: all your mates left skul at 14 and so you thought you wud 2…
However, what is poverty? Is it a state of mind, is it a mere physical condition which can be altered by our own free will like we can buy a new car if we really want to? Or is it some force majeur thing which like a black hole, is simply impossible to escape?
If you conclude it’s the former it follows that since it’s not an inevitable outcome of being born into those circumstances, that therefore nor is it inevitable that someone born into particular circumstances is tied to any particular outcome, be it good, or bad. Therefore “those circumstances,” in this case poverty, can’t be causal, they have to be a correlation.
So the question hinges on that premise: is poverty a mere state of mind that can be changed at will? What do you think on that, mm?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
@Noskire – that reminds me:
How do you know if your house has been robbed by a gang of Asians?
Your homework’s done, the computers have all been updated and 2 hrs later, they’re still trying to reverse out of the driveway!
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
reid
I thought we might be in for an argument on cause versus correlation perhaps based on evidence rather than prejudice.
Maybe we’d like to believe that a child born to a Maori solo mum today in Pomare has the same opportunity as a child born at the same time to affluent, white parents in Miramar. Why is it so much more likely that the child from Pomare will end in jail and the child from Miramar in a mansion than the other way around? That’s not to say that such outcomes are inevitable. Plenty of poor Maori grow up and do just fine, and we have our share of Clayton Weatherstons.
If it’s not caused by race, education or poverty then what is the cause. You appear to suggest that it is from individual choice. If so, why do so many from similar backgrounds make similarly poor choices?
This isn’t some liberal sob story, reid, it’s a genuine set of questions that people need to face. What is it about life in Godzone that condemns so many kids born equal to these unequal outcomes? Is it getting better or worse>? What have we done over the years to make it better or worse?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Maybe we’d like to believe that a child born to a Maori solo mum today in Pomare has the same opportunity as a child born at the same time to affluent, white parents in Miramar. Why is it so much more likely that the child from Pomare will end in jail and the child from Miramar in a mansion than the other way around?
Because people aren’t taught mm that thoughts are things. Cogito ergo sum is how life actually works. One day, Gary Hart determined to himself that he wasn’t going to be just a towie and he made his start.
Whether or not you are destined to crime because you are poor, depends on your attitude, and your attitude is free. You and I and every single person on this planet, is free to choose their own attitude towards their circumstances, 24/7/365 up and until the very second they die. You can’t deny it. This is how life works. You can say a lot of factors influence that choice and I agree but the simple fact of life is, no-one is ever forced to choose. One is free to be happy on death row. One may not be, but one is free to be.
That’s the point mm that you and thousands like you fail to understand. Poverty can be overcome and hopefully I don’t need to give you real examples cause you can think of thousands on your own. I’m sorry for you if you can’t.
That proves my friend doesn’t it that its possible.
It may or may not be the most common outcome but who cares, it proves its possible.
I’m not only talking about a Gary Hart mm I hope I don’t have to explain that, to you. I would have to, to Penny, but not to you, I hope.
Imagine if you or I suddenly found ourself in exactly the same circumstances poverty-wise of the exact next person who was about to turn to a life of crime. Now we are still “us” in this imaginary circumstances but everything about the poverty is real, every single thing, our lack of income, our physical assets if we even have any, our money, if we even have any, everything.
Notice we don’t have all the emotional baggage either of us would have if we had really lived that life, we’re just us, there, right now.
So would we turn to a life of crime? Of course not. Why would we? We know a thousand ways to not do crime and improve our circumstances and that’s my point mm.
You see, it’s not poverty, nuh uh.
It’s lack of education, it’s anger arising mostly from pathetic self-pity, it’s a lot of things, but it’s not, repeat not, poverty, neither on its own nor even as even one, of the real causal factors.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Before blaming the judiciary, have a look at the Sentencing Act and look at the morass of conflicting principles that the courts have to make some sense of.
It’s not the judiciary that determines sentencing policy. That is done by Parliament, which, in its infinite wisdom, tries to please the tree huggers and the Genghis Khans and ends up pleasing no-one.
I don’t know if three strikes will work but I do know that it provides certainty. The punitive element prevails on strike three. I dont think we will see any sort of trend for ten years. Minor fluctuations can be put down to the social and economic climates at any particular time. In fact, I suspect that we are likely to get more serious crime in the short term.
I do not have any inherent objection to 3 strikes but then I am not into criminal law. I am willing to give it a chance. I am developing a fancy for the return of stocks and dunking bucket for drunken vandals and assholes who drive through stop signs while yarning on their cell phones. Large SUVs are the worst. Small dick syndrome. I am told that I am not allowed to mount a potato gun on the bonnet of my car so I guess stocks and tomatoes is the next best thing.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
Poverty is a lack of choice. Being dependent on the welfare state for your very existence is poverty, just as in many countries, no job and no welfare backstop constitutes poverty. The choice that EVERYONE has is to change something/anything about their life to have more options, however small or insignificant those option may appear
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
Game Theory applied to Criminology (New Scientist Article)
Original PDF source (freely downlodable) : Less Crime, More (Vulnerable) Victims: Game Theory and the Distributional Effects of Criminal Sanctions
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
The reason that DPF has no cellphone or internet access is because he is in the Rangers end at Ibrox Park, Glasgow. When you are there you are surrounded by people from 1690. They are the worst bigots on the planet..
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
The use of RMT (Random Matrix Theory) from Sociophysics in crime data analysis.
Assessing the Predictability of Social and Economic Time-Series Data: the example of crime in the UK
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Alas far too busy to contribute anything substantial to an interesting debate but just had to jump in and say thanks, FF, for those links… have forwarded them on to researchers and policy makers here in Aus.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
Pauleastbay: “my information is available; just click”.. I dont know what you are talking about Sergeant…mine is David Garrett, 191 Kanohi Road Kaukapakapa…09 415 3168…
3S would have prevented Dixon, Bell and the others from graduating to killer..
ACT voted AGAINST the abolition of the provocation defence…the only party in the House to do so…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Off to bed but one question first. Does anyone else want to say “hold the ladder steady” when that ad comes on with the silly bint who offs her hubby by ringing him on his cell phone in the car and then says “James, James…..” Hope I havent ruined the ad for those taken with the drama of it all.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
ACT voted AGAINST the abolition of the provocation defence…the only party in the House to do so…
Well done ACT, I didn’t know that David, thanks. And thanks too FF for those links.
Hope I havent ruined the ad for those taken with the drama of it all.
Luckily I have MySky so I have no idea what you’re talking about Nookin and somehow I’m not sad about that…
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Rex, that’s the beauty of online discussions is that we can all share. I can be alerted to something that someone here posted and likewise others can be alerted to something that I post. In this way the discussion is more interesting. Here is another.
A Simulation of the Market for Offenses in Multi-agent Systems: Is Zero Crime Rates Attainable?
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:26 pm
I was ignoring this debate while it was factored around racial characteristics, but I have just come back to have a look and it has become interesting, so I will put my 2 cents worth in:
Race alone isn’t a cause of crime. Neither is poverty. As Pauleastbay says, poverty isn’t a cause, it is an excuse. His 8.06pm comment is especially true. In my view, the real issues are often so varied person to person that it is difficult to really say what that there is any really significant ‘driver of crime’. However, I will put forward two that I think are most often seen in most crime (not the reported stuff, the ‘everyday’ stuff). The first is welfare dependency. This is the real issue around the idea that ‘poverty causes crime’, except the Left won’t admit it because it takes away one of their pet causes. It is not poverty that is an issue- plenty of poor people do not commit crime. But if you have welfare dependency, especially generational welfare dependency and especially among young men, you will have an increase in crime. I stand to be corrected, but I seem to recall that the crime rate dropped during the depression of the 1930s. Poverty isn’t the problem- welfare dependency is.
That is often linked into the next problem, which Mikenmild alludes to within his example at 9.19pm: solo parenthood, in fact solo mothering. Again without going back to my resources, but I seem to recall that the male children of solo mothers are far more likely to be involved crime as a percentage than pretty much any other segment of the community. Of course, this problem is far worse among those who are welfare dependent (I don’t know why, I am not a sociologist). The difference between the child in Pomare and the one in Miramar is that the child in Miramar is more likely to have a mother and a father. More importantly, a natural father, not a step-father. Or worse, a mother’s boyfriend. After all, we know that the worst risk for child abuse comes from a step-parent, especially if that step-parent is not actually married to the child’s mother.
This isn’t beneficiary bashing in any way. Most beneficiaries don’t commit crime. But then neither does most of the employed, either. What we are looking at is what percentage of criminals come from which groups, which is where the racial thing came from earlier today. However, those ideas are, I think, misguided- the issue isn’t race, it is welfare dependency, which is rife among Maori and Pacific Islanders, much higher as a percentage than any other ethnicity. Again, that is not to criticise the beneficiaries- welfare is a failed experiment and we need something else to fill its place, and soon.
Nor is it solo mother bashing. Raising a child alone cannot be easy, and I am not one to point the finger at anyone for relationship breakdown (although I reject Cactus Kate’s recent post on deadbeat dads. I know from UK figures that most relationship breakdowns are initiated by the woman. Plus, when dads get a legally mandated role in the upbringing of the child then I will have some sympathy there), but this is one area that needs to be addressed urgently as well.
Added to that is reid’s very good point at 9.38, regarding attitude. I have said before on this blog, and I will say it again, the one thing that I find is common to pretty much all the crims that I have represented is selfishness. Either a sense of entitlement that somebody else owes them something simply because of who they are, or simply an attitude that they are entitled to think of themselves first and last, with no-one else being relevant unless it affects number one. That attitude doesn’t seem to restrict itself to any race, class or group. That said, the solo mother thing is often a common factor even there…
Anyway, those are just observations made from working with crims a bit.
Vote:June 30th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
The first is welfare dependency. This is the real issue around the idea that ‘poverty causes crime’, except the Left won’t admit it because it takes away one of their pet causes.
Which is the worst, really, since it means the left perpetuate the ill to further their cause while marketing themselves as being on their side.
The left appear to believe life is all about force majeur. That your average life is all about being shoved from pillar to post without you being able to do a thing about it and the only thing that can be done really, is to fight or better, let others fight on your behalf. Sue Bradford made a classic statement to that effect the other day on RadioNZ:
…a lot of workers already know to their detriment that we actually do continue to have an epidemic of bullying in the workplace by people just like Mr Thompson: Big, bluff, domineering, red-faced Pakeha men throwing their weight around as we saw him doing so outrageously on TV the other night and that’s actually going on all the time in the workplace, aimed at workers who aren’t journalists, who don’t have that kind of power, who don’t have any ability to fight back, um, and end up losing whatever they do. And I think Mr Thompson has actually revealed the true face, sadly of far too many New Zealand employers and in some ways why should the EMA sack him he’s actually doing us a favour, by portraying the true face of some employers.
See?
Everyone is a powerless victim just waiting to be saved.
This is the poison and sunlight is the cure.
Thanks FES for your wisdom and voice of experience.
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 12:27 am
Seen this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10735464&ref=rss
Ian Wishart answers a number of questions about Macsyna King and why he wrote ‘Breaking the Silence’.
Ian Wishart and OUR rights to ‘freedom of expression’ are under siege.
What are you fine Kiwibloggers doing to help?
Anything?
Where are all the ACT stalwarts and Liberterians when you need them?
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
July 1st, 2011 at 12:55 am
If you believe in freedom of expression – you could always make your views known to Whitcoulls to help stop them caving in to the ‘lynch mob’?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Whitcoulls/116547828374834
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
July 1st, 2011 at 4:25 am
F E Smith: Interesting well argued post…Re the crime drop in the depression; you are quite right. In fact the lowest level of crime per 100,000 in NZ in the 20th century was in 1932 – the depths of the depression, and the year of the Queen Street riots…people were literally starving, and eventually looted shops for food and clothing, not the 1932 equivalent of plasma TV’s…Despite that blip, crime rates overall remained extremely low
More recently the “unemployment causes crime” hypothesis took another battering. During and after the Great Recession of 2008 unemployment in parts of the US reached 16% (in California) and all the pointy heads were gravely predicting a huge upsurge in crime, both property and violent. It didnt happen. Cue much head scratching from said pointy heads.
And you are spot on re benefit dependency…one of the reasons I despise the socialists so much is their strident defence of the “rights” of people – especially the young – to sit at home and rot on the dole. Every time there is a suggestion of some sort of complusory community work, the likes of Sue Bradford start braying about the oxymoronic “unemployed workers rights” not to be forced to work. Never mind that after a couple of years of sitting at home watching TV and getting up at lunch time, no-one will ever be employable – particulary if you are young, have no skills, and have never had a job.
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 5:58 am
David Garrett
While you are up so nice and early
” Just click” means – you might have noticed that some commentators names here are in blue and some in black.
The blue are are “registered” ones and are not anonymous, DPF generously links these ones to our own blogs if we have one. I personally have a little vanity blog which is a diary of the books I have read lately, all my details you could want are there. You just click on the blue name and voila!
This linking allows you to travel to the blogs of other commentators here. There are some very good ones, intelligently put together and interesting, even if I don’t agree with the author.
And what I would like is if you are to quote others especially those like Greg Newbold who have a public profile and someone who actually knows what he is talking about is that you give some reference to the remark you are quoting.
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:17 am
The gloves are off: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/270862/rubio-blasts-obama-left-wing-strong-man-robert-costa
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:19 am
Good morning Sergeant….Thank you for that information.
Greg has said what he said to me personally, and also on National Radio…about a month ago from memory.
While you clearly hold me in low regard, I dont make things up (well, not for a very long time…) and I don’t quote distorted or made up stats…unlike those on the left who do it all the time. According to them, there is no correlation – let alone a causal relationship – between the introduction of 3S in California and the precipitous decline in crime. The reality is very different, as you can easily find for yourself if you care to.
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:24 am
There is no rank, nicely retired for 7 years now and loving it
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:26 am
Penny! You’ve taken out all the lines!! Now doesn’t that look a whole lot easier on the eye? You may find now that people will actually read the substance of your comments and engage, as I am about to do.
As for your comments about Wishart, freedom of speech is not in imminent danger. The campaign to boycott the book is not calling for a ban. A ban implies compulsion; a boycott involves an individual’s choice. Even if Whitcoulls chooses not to stock the book, Wishart will still sell it online, so no-one is being deprived the opportunity to purchase it.
I’m choosing not to buy the book. I generally enjoy Wishart’s publications, and an extract from my review of one of them is still used in his advertisements in His/Hers (formerly Investigate) Magazine. But I reckon that he has made an error of judgment in publishing this book. It’s far too soon, whilst there is so much anger that a double murderer still gets up every day, pulls back the curtains and goes about his or her business with narry a care in the world. I accept Wishart’s assurances that Macsyna King will not profit from the book, but it should not be published whilst a police investigation and other judicial proceedings (the inquest) are ongoing. His timing is lousy, and his schedule of public appearances this week has the feel of self-promotion.
There; my thoughts in a nutshell, prompted by your willingness to listen to what a number of Kiwibloggers have been suggesting to you
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:27 am
So why is my name in black when I am the antithesis of “anonymous” ? because I dont have a “vanity blog” ?
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:34 am
Paul: I followed the link…what I dont get is why use a pseud on here if you are prepared to “out” yourself by linking to your blog? Doesnt make much sense to me…but then we went to different schools…
I should have added before, I read very widely (as clearly you do) and sometimes can’t remember immediately where I read or heard something. Do you not find the same? If you dont know it, Google the quote ” a sunny place for shady people”…the ex cop in you would like that one…
Have a good day…
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 6:45 am
Blaming “Maori” for violence is like blaming Pakeha for socialism.
More on Violence and Maori.
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 7:05 am
@ David; when you registered for Kiwiblog, you would have had an option to add a website link. Those who have get a hyperlink over their name, allowing people to link directly to that website. You can probably update your WordPress profile if you want to become a bluey!
Vote:July 1st, 2011 at 7:19 am
reid, FE smith – thanks for your stimulating comments, and thanks also Falafulu for those links.
When we talk about crime we obviously have the difficulty of correlates versus causes. It seems to me that when we say something like ‘poverty causes crime’ we are making a political statement, just as the statement that ‘welfare dependency causes crime’ is essentially political. It is trite to say that a criminal has committed crime because of poverty; just as trite to say being a child of a solo parent or being Maori has led to crime.
Yes, everyone has choices. Not all poor people resort to crime; not all welfare beneficiaries raise criminals; all Maori a re not crooks. I would argue that our capacity to choose is constrained by the circumstances in which we are born and raised. So while background does not excuse criminality; it may explain it.
Vote: